1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,160 S1: downloading this podcast, and I hope you hear something that 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 S1: will really encourage and edify you. But before you start 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,400 S1: to listen, let me take a moment of your time 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: and tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,640 S1: secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: it follows that very often, whatever our relationship is like 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,000 S1: with authority figures, predominantly our parents, we somehow transferred to 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,040 S1: how we see God. So if we have an angry parent, 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,319 S1: he's an angry God. If it's a distant parent, he's 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,520 S1: a God who's not there. I think it's important we 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: understand who God really is. And in this wonderful book 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: called secure, you're going to discover the character of God 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: and how deeply in love God is with you. It's 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,839 S1: our truth tool. Our truth tools are my way of 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. So 17 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: if you'd like a copy of secure, just call eight 7758. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: That's eight 7758. Give a gift of any amount. My 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,840 S1: way of saying thank you for supporting the program is 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: I'll send you a copy of secure. You can also 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,480 S1: do this online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. 22 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,560 S1: Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the cover 23 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,920 S1: of the book secure. Click on the photo. Go right 24 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,920 S1: on through. Make your donation and we'll send you a 25 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:06,760 S1: copy again of secure. If you want to consider becoming 26 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,880 S1: a partial partner, that is the ever increasing circle of 27 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,039 S1: friends who give every single month at a level of 28 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,319 S1: their own choosing. And my way of saying thank you 29 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,760 S1: is this you always get the truth tool for each 30 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,920 S1: and every month. And in addition to that, you get 31 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,840 S1: a weekly newsletter that includes some of my writing and 32 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,399 S1: a little audio piece just for my partial partners. So 33 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,399 S1: either way, thank you in advance for prayerfully considering the 34 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,640 S1: opportunity to financially support in the market with Janet partial 35 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:32,679 S1: and keeping it on the air. Now, I hope you 36 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,880 S1: hear something that will encourage you to get out and 37 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,839 S1: influence and occupy in the marketplace of ideas. 38 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,440 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,080 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,160 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,000 S3: Extremely rare safety move by a major. 42 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,000 S4: 17 years of Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 43 00:01:53,320 --> 00:02:06,930 S3: With. Hi, friends. 44 00:02:06,930 --> 00:02:09,410 S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet partial. Good to 45 00:02:09,410 --> 00:02:11,410 S1: have you with me this hour. It is going to 46 00:02:11,410 --> 00:02:13,290 S1: be a day where we open the phones. So you 47 00:02:13,290 --> 00:02:22,370 S1: need this. (877) 548-3675. That's (877) 548-3675. And we're going to talk 48 00:02:22,370 --> 00:02:25,450 S1: about spiritual warfare. And who doesn't want to talk about 49 00:02:25,450 --> 00:02:28,650 S1: that topic. You listen to that cacophony of the marketplace 50 00:02:28,650 --> 00:02:31,570 S1: of ideas. And I guarantee you whether someone is saved 51 00:02:31,570 --> 00:02:34,450 S1: or not yet saved, there's an interest. How do I know? 52 00:02:34,450 --> 00:02:37,450 S1: I give you Hollywood, Your Honor, as evidence a I mean, 53 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:40,250 S1: how many iterations of The Conjuring can you make? For 54 00:02:40,250 --> 00:02:44,730 S1: goodness sakes, there is a prurient interests who the unsaved world, 55 00:02:44,970 --> 00:02:47,690 S1: and sometimes it's a calling card to draw people to 56 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:51,650 S1: the occultic and demonic supernatural. And you and I know 57 00:02:51,650 --> 00:02:54,049 S1: better than that. All right. But the reality is, we 58 00:02:54,050 --> 00:02:56,810 S1: also know the reality of spiritual warfare. So we in 59 00:02:56,810 --> 00:02:59,170 S1: the church should be talking about it. So before I 60 00:02:59,169 --> 00:03:00,970 S1: introduce my guests and you don't need to use a 61 00:03:00,970 --> 00:03:03,130 S1: lifeline or call a friend, you know exactly who we're 62 00:03:03,130 --> 00:03:05,370 S1: going to talk to this hour. I'm going to put 63 00:03:05,370 --> 00:03:08,450 S1: three ideas on the table. I did some digging around 64 00:03:08,450 --> 00:03:10,329 S1: and someone else put these ideas out, and I'm going 65 00:03:10,330 --> 00:03:13,050 S1: to borrow them because I think they're spot on. Uh, 66 00:03:13,490 --> 00:03:16,170 S1: why we don't talk about spiritual warfare in the church. 67 00:03:16,169 --> 00:03:18,370 S1: In fact, every time Doctor Carl Payne. Oh, I let 68 00:03:18,370 --> 00:03:20,890 S1: it slip. Guess who our guest is. Every time Doctor 69 00:03:20,889 --> 00:03:23,889 S1: Carl Pain comes on the show, one of the questions. 70 00:03:23,889 --> 00:03:25,930 S1: And I sometimes don't have time to get to it. 71 00:03:25,930 --> 00:03:28,210 S1: Or I'll get an email afterwards and someone will say, well, 72 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:30,930 S1: how come the church doesn't talk about spiritual warfare? Well, 73 00:03:30,930 --> 00:03:34,450 S1: the church capital C should your local church might not 74 00:03:34,450 --> 00:03:36,330 S1: be doing it. And I'm going to give you three 75 00:03:36,330 --> 00:03:39,050 S1: reasons why. And I will ask the inimitable Doctor Payne 76 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:41,369 S1: to give me his reaction to these three points. Number one, 77 00:03:41,370 --> 00:03:44,250 S1: the church is unaware of the enemy, and I think 78 00:03:44,250 --> 00:03:46,690 S1: that's a big problem. I think that we just kind 79 00:03:46,730 --> 00:03:49,490 S1: of sidestep. Listen, first Peter five eight and nine, this 80 00:03:49,490 --> 00:03:52,530 S1: is the new Living Translation. Stay alert. Watch out for 81 00:03:52,530 --> 00:03:55,370 S1: your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a 82 00:03:55,410 --> 00:03:59,090 S1: roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Stand firm against 83 00:03:59,090 --> 00:04:01,890 S1: him and be strong in your faith. Remember that your 84 00:04:01,890 --> 00:04:04,530 S1: family of believers all over the world is going through 85 00:04:04,530 --> 00:04:07,890 S1: the same kind of suffering you are. So it's a reality. 86 00:04:07,890 --> 00:04:11,330 S1: But sometimes we just don't acknowledge the reality of the 87 00:04:11,370 --> 00:04:13,930 S1: enemy and therefore we don't talk about it. Which is 88 00:04:13,930 --> 00:04:16,010 S1: kind of stupid because we're going to step outside the 89 00:04:16,010 --> 00:04:19,010 S1: front door and it's a war out there. Everything the world, 90 00:04:19,010 --> 00:04:21,250 S1: the flesh and the devil, wars against everything we know 91 00:04:21,250 --> 00:04:24,570 S1: to be truth, the precepts, the principles of God's Word, 92 00:04:24,570 --> 00:04:26,370 S1: even the very nature of who God is and the 93 00:04:26,370 --> 00:04:29,450 S1: person of Jesus Christ. So why would we not talk 94 00:04:29,450 --> 00:04:31,250 S1: about where the assaults are going to be coming from? 95 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:33,610 S1: Doesn't that help us to suit up? Certainly in Ephesians, 96 00:04:33,610 --> 00:04:36,529 S1: by the way, you've got Ephesians 610 through 20 talking 97 00:04:36,529 --> 00:04:38,810 S1: about this. So wouldn't you want to put on the 98 00:04:38,810 --> 00:04:41,010 S1: whole armor of God know what each piece is? Know 99 00:04:41,010 --> 00:04:42,890 S1: why you need each piece of that armor before you 100 00:04:42,930 --> 00:04:44,890 S1: suit up and go out and get involved in the war. 101 00:04:45,130 --> 00:04:48,130 S1: And it is our battle. It reminds us, is not 102 00:04:48,130 --> 00:04:50,290 S1: against flesh and blood. Here's number two, and I'll do 103 00:04:50,290 --> 00:04:53,020 S1: this quickly. The church does not want to teach on 104 00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:56,580 S1: the subject of spiritual warfare. Why? I don't know. I 105 00:04:56,580 --> 00:04:59,020 S1: can't quite figure it out. Again, if you go to 106 00:04:59,060 --> 00:05:03,740 S1: Ephesians 612, for we're not fighting against flesh and blood enemies, 107 00:05:03,740 --> 00:05:06,900 S1: as I just noted, but against evil rulers and authorities 108 00:05:06,900 --> 00:05:09,659 S1: of the unseen world. They're real. They're out there. Thank 109 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:11,340 S1: you God, we can't yet see them with these mere 110 00:05:11,380 --> 00:05:14,859 S1: mortal eyes. But it exists. And the verse continues against 111 00:05:14,860 --> 00:05:19,780 S1: mighty powers in this dark world. Why would you not 112 00:05:19,779 --> 00:05:21,420 S1: want to take it on? Greater is he that is 113 00:05:21,420 --> 00:05:23,420 S1: in us than he that's in the world. So am 114 00:05:23,420 --> 00:05:25,220 S1: I going to cower in the corner because there are 115 00:05:25,220 --> 00:05:27,940 S1: mighty powers in this dark world? As Paul said, writing 116 00:05:27,980 --> 00:05:31,580 S1: to the church at Ephesus, no, you understand exactly what 117 00:05:31,580 --> 00:05:34,260 S1: those enemies are, what they do, what their battle plan is, 118 00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:37,219 S1: and you defeat them because victory is ours through Jesus 119 00:05:37,220 --> 00:05:41,380 S1: Christ and Ephesians 612, and against evil spirits in the 120 00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:43,900 S1: heavenly places. So it's a reality whether the church wants 121 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:46,300 S1: to teach about it or not. And last but not least, 122 00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:48,060 S1: and I think this is the biggie the church finds 123 00:05:48,060 --> 00:05:53,540 S1: it to be an uncomfortable topic. Oh, help us if 124 00:05:53,540 --> 00:05:56,620 S1: we decided to not teach on the uncomfortable topics in Scripture. 125 00:05:56,620 --> 00:06:00,099 S1: It'd be a very, very tiny book. That whole book 126 00:06:00,140 --> 00:06:02,659 S1: is about Jesus, and that whole book is about what 127 00:06:02,660 --> 00:06:05,500 S1: Jesus did for us because we were separated from God 128 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:08,340 S1: by our sins. And that whole book teaches us how 129 00:06:08,339 --> 00:06:12,299 S1: to be conformed and transformed to the person of Jesus Christ. 130 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:16,339 S1: Our sanctification, not only our justification, but our sanctification, is 131 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:19,779 S1: rooted deeply in that word. If it makes you uncomfortable, 132 00:06:19,779 --> 00:06:22,300 S1: then you better do some self-examination. Why does it make 133 00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:25,460 S1: you uncomfortable? It's the whole counsel of God from Genesis 134 00:06:25,500 --> 00:06:28,300 S1: one to the last verse in revelation. So I've put 135 00:06:28,300 --> 00:06:30,260 S1: those ideas out there. I'm going to get Doctor Carl 136 00:06:30,260 --> 00:06:31,860 S1: Payne to respond. But I just want to nudge you 137 00:06:31,900 --> 00:06:35,220 S1: one more time. Questions only. Any question, however you have 138 00:06:35,260 --> 00:06:42,740 S1: on the topic of spiritual warfare. (877) 548-3675 the official introduction. 139 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:45,820 S1: Doctor Carl Pain is a pastor, teacher, speaker, author, and 140 00:06:45,820 --> 00:06:51,270 S1: former NFL champion for the Seattle Seahawks. Yes, they did 141 00:06:51,270 --> 00:06:54,510 S1: win Super Bowl 20. And we're very proud that they did. 142 00:06:54,550 --> 00:06:55,990 S1: And we get to talk to the man that for 143 00:06:55,990 --> 00:06:58,910 S1: 21 years was their chaplain. By the way a whole 144 00:06:58,910 --> 00:07:00,950 S1: lot of wonderful believers on that team and a lot 145 00:07:00,950 --> 00:07:03,190 S1: of comments about Christ after the game was over. If 146 00:07:03,230 --> 00:07:06,109 S1: you watched Super Bowl 20. It was certainly interesting, I digress. 147 00:07:06,110 --> 00:07:08,750 S1: I could talk football all hour with Doctor Payne, but 148 00:07:08,750 --> 00:07:10,190 S1: I want to go back to who he is. He's 149 00:07:10,190 --> 00:07:13,390 S1: on staff at Antioch Bible Church of Redmond, Washington. His 150 00:07:13,390 --> 00:07:16,110 S1: primary role there is serving as the pastor of Leadership 151 00:07:16,110 --> 00:07:20,150 S1: Development and Discipleship Training. And he's written, I think, the 152 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:23,390 S1: definitive book, obviously, the the definitive book is the Word 153 00:07:23,390 --> 00:07:25,950 S1: of God. But if you want a companion, get this 154 00:07:25,990 --> 00:07:29,790 S1: spiritual warfare, Christians Demonization and deliverance. I know how many 155 00:07:29,790 --> 00:07:32,310 S1: of you have already gotten that book, but it really 156 00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:34,430 S1: and truly is one of the best out there. So 157 00:07:34,430 --> 00:07:35,950 S1: let me give you the title one more time. It's 158 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:39,910 S1: right there on our information page. It's called Spiritual Warfare 159 00:07:39,910 --> 00:07:47,910 S1: Full Colon Christians, Demonization and deliverance. Again (877) 548-3675. Well, doctor 160 00:07:47,910 --> 00:07:50,670 S1: pain the warmest of welcomes I am thrilled I am 161 00:07:50,670 --> 00:07:54,350 S1: practicing self-control today. It is a fruit of the spirit 162 00:07:54,390 --> 00:07:58,430 S1: because I'd love to talk football the entire hour with you. 163 00:07:59,470 --> 00:08:02,710 S1: But I just put out three points. Am I off base? 164 00:08:02,710 --> 00:08:05,950 S1: Am I spot on? If those legitimate? If those three 165 00:08:05,990 --> 00:08:08,510 S1: reasons are legitimate, then why? Why and why? 166 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:12,510 S5: Well, young lady first good afternoon. 167 00:08:12,910 --> 00:08:13,710 S1: Thank you sir. 168 00:08:13,870 --> 00:08:17,910 S5: Yes, I appreciate the discipline and self-control and I will 169 00:08:17,910 --> 00:08:21,230 S5: try to exercise that too. And I didn't know if 170 00:08:21,230 --> 00:08:23,710 S5: we could get this before the first commercial or, you know, 171 00:08:23,750 --> 00:08:25,630 S5: the music break, but I think we can because I 172 00:08:25,630 --> 00:08:29,750 S5: was writing as you were talking, number one unaware. We're 173 00:08:29,750 --> 00:08:33,550 S5: unaware I put we should not be afraid or ashamed 174 00:08:33,550 --> 00:08:40,390 S5: of something Scripture addresses without ambiguity or equivocation. And so 175 00:08:40,429 --> 00:08:43,750 S5: I agree. And for non-Christians who don't care about scripture, 176 00:08:43,790 --> 00:08:47,110 S5: I get that. But for people that say the scriptures, 177 00:08:47,110 --> 00:08:49,830 S5: the Word of God, I stand on it. Certainly odd 178 00:08:49,870 --> 00:08:52,470 S5: that they would choose to be unaware of it. Number two, 179 00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:54,670 S5: the church does not want to teach on it. My 180 00:08:54,670 --> 00:08:59,910 S5: comment was pride or fear. Selecting selective reading of Scripture 181 00:08:59,950 --> 00:09:02,590 S5: can determine which way you go on this. I think 182 00:09:02,590 --> 00:09:06,790 S5: I understand number three Uncomfortability. I put the applause of 183 00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:10,270 S5: man or God. Scripture is clear. Who are we looking 184 00:09:10,309 --> 00:09:14,390 S5: to for our applause? If it's God Almighty, then uncomfortability 185 00:09:14,550 --> 00:09:17,670 S5: biblically correct is more important than politically correct. 186 00:09:17,870 --> 00:09:21,830 S1: Amen. And that exact statement is emblematic of why we 187 00:09:21,830 --> 00:09:24,110 S1: keep asking Doctor Carl Pain back on the program. He 188 00:09:24,110 --> 00:09:26,070 S1: calls him as he sees him, and he sees him 189 00:09:26,070 --> 00:09:31,230 S1: through the lens of Scripture. (877) 548-3675 love for your calls 190 00:09:31,230 --> 00:09:33,150 S1: on spiritual warfare this hour, because you got a great 191 00:09:33,190 --> 00:09:42,950 S1: teacher and Doctor Carl Payne back after this. Are you 192 00:09:42,990 --> 00:09:45,560 S1: constantly feeling like God is disappointed in you? Or do 193 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,079 S1: you feel like he's too busy for your problems? Well, 194 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,520 S1: that's why I've chosen secure how to have a healthy 195 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,400 S1: attachment to God as this month's truth tool. Learn to 196 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,280 S1: grasp the depth of God's love for you. Ask for 197 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,160 S1: your copy of secure. When you give a gift of 198 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,520 S1: any amount to in the market, call 877 Janet 58. 199 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,680 S1: That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market 200 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:10,040 S1: with Janet Dot. We are visiting with Doctor Carl Payne 201 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:15,200 S1: and our topic is spiritual warfare. (877) 548-3675. He's the author 202 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,120 S1: of a great book on this topic, Spiritual Warfare Christians, 203 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,800 S1: Demonization and Deliverance. Quick pivot here. Um, I'm going to 204 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:23,960 S1: get emails. My brain was going faster than my mouth. 205 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,320 S1: Obviously it wasn't Super Bowl 20, it was Super Bowl 60. 206 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,400 S1: But Stephen Taber, who is my aficionado when it comes 207 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:35,040 S1: to all things football, says in 20 and Super Bowl 20, 208 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,559 S1: it was actually the Chicago Bears and the New England Patriots. 209 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,320 S1: So see, Seahawks wouldn't have even been there. Uh oh 210 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:47,160 S1: I'm losing self self-control. We're talking about football. 87754836. Seven five. 211 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,280 S1: I'm going to the phones, drew. I'm going to welcome 212 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,120 S1: you first from New Mexico. Thanks for being here. And 213 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:52,080 S1: your question, please. 214 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,959 S6: Uh, yes. Uh, do you think that, uh, Christians are 215 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,240 S6: aware of the seriousness of the dark side and the 216 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,800 S6: realness that it really is? It is it because they've 217 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,520 S6: never had to deal with it or encounter it? And 218 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,920 S6: that's why they're maybe kind of neutral or negative about it. And, uh, 219 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,840 S6: what would be your take on that? Because, uh, because 220 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,800 S6: I know it's very real. So I'll let you comment. 221 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,280 S6: Thank you. 222 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:21,320 S1: Okay. Thank you. Drew. 223 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,440 S5: Yeah. Drew. Wonderful question. I would give you a couple 224 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:29,160 S5: of answers. I would say, number one, I don't think 225 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:34,199 S5: it's always, uh, something that is, is well thought through 226 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,959 S5: because if I haven't been around much of it, why 227 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,960 S5: would I worry about it? And I think that there 228 00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,719 S5: are some areas where you see more, some less. But 229 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,160 S5: I think the truth of the matter is we've not 230 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,440 S5: been taught how to recognize it. So when I tell 231 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:51,720 S5: people that come to me and say, you know, I 232 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,199 S5: have been to doctors, I have been to psychologists, psychiatrists, 233 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,120 S5: and I have referred people out to all of the above. 234 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,280 S5: I'm not opposed to that. But when they tell me 235 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,760 S5: I have looked for help everywhere, I can get it. 236 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,520 S5: And in my mind, I am just being told Jesus 237 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,959 S5: doesn't love you. Your prayers bounce off the ceiling. You're 238 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,240 S5: an idiot. Why do you read scripture? Why do you 239 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,079 S5: trust somebody that doesn't love you? Because if he loved you, 240 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,880 S5: why would he let you go through this? ET cetera, 241 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,600 S5: et cetera, et cetera. They have never been taught. You know, 242 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,160 S5: when we talk about the arrows, when Paul talks about 243 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,960 S5: in Ephesians six, or the accusation John talks about in 244 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:32,320 S5: revelation 12, they've never connected the two. So I don't 245 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:35,199 S5: think it's usually a deliberate attempt to say, I don't 246 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,280 S5: want to recognize it. I think they have simply not 247 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,330 S5: been told how to connect the dots. And then when 248 00:12:41,330 --> 00:12:43,610 S5: you get people that will make fun because you get 249 00:12:43,610 --> 00:12:47,970 S5: somebody that is just mentally broken and then put that 250 00:12:47,970 --> 00:12:50,370 S5: up as, look what Christians are like, you know, I mean, 251 00:12:50,410 --> 00:12:52,490 S5: they're just totally off the wall. Then there's a little 252 00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:54,770 S5: bit of shame or fear. You know, if I even 253 00:12:54,770 --> 00:12:57,970 S5: talk about this, I'm probably going to get, you know, 254 00:12:58,010 --> 00:13:01,490 S5: haggled or besmirched. So it's just easier not to talk 255 00:13:01,490 --> 00:13:04,330 S5: about it. So that that would be the first thing. 256 00:13:04,330 --> 00:13:07,730 S5: The second thing I would say, and I think that, yes, 257 00:13:07,730 --> 00:13:10,290 S5: there are some people that go through a heck of 258 00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:13,090 S5: a lot more of it than others. I told a 259 00:13:13,090 --> 00:13:16,410 S5: story one time, drew on this about a friend of 260 00:13:16,410 --> 00:13:20,050 S5: mine who was a missionary up in Alaska, and he 261 00:13:20,050 --> 00:13:22,530 S5: called me and he said that the they work with 262 00:13:22,530 --> 00:13:24,610 S5: the natives up there. And he said, we called them 263 00:13:24,610 --> 00:13:27,530 S5: the little people. And he said, they're so prevalent there 264 00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:30,890 S5: isn't anybody up there living up there that isn't aware 265 00:13:30,890 --> 00:13:32,890 S5: of the little people. I said, yeah, I said, what's 266 00:13:32,890 --> 00:13:36,090 S5: the problem? He said, the only church in the area 267 00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:39,330 S5: is a church that is adamantly opposed to the idea 268 00:13:39,330 --> 00:13:43,130 S5: that these things, if they're real, that they really attack people, 269 00:13:43,170 --> 00:13:47,329 S5: you know, I mean, maybe in the worst of worst situations, 270 00:13:47,330 --> 00:13:49,170 S5: but that if you're a Christian, you don't have to 271 00:13:49,210 --> 00:13:52,290 S5: worry about any of it, just, you know, stand in Jesus, 272 00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:55,730 S5: memorize scripture, it'll be fine. And he said, our people, 273 00:13:55,730 --> 00:13:57,730 S5: when we lead them to Christ, won't go to the 274 00:13:57,730 --> 00:14:00,809 S5: church because they'll say, if the pastor is that stupid 275 00:14:01,290 --> 00:14:04,930 S5: about understanding little people are real, why would we believe 276 00:14:04,929 --> 00:14:08,689 S5: anything else? He says. And so I think sometimes the 277 00:14:08,690 --> 00:14:14,370 S5: fear of the association with or maybe it's arrogance. You know, 278 00:14:14,410 --> 00:14:17,130 S5: I walk so close to Jesus. I've been taught that 279 00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:20,370 S5: they won't bother me anyway. Maybe it has me teaching 280 00:14:20,370 --> 00:14:22,850 S5: things that are not true. If I was a very 281 00:14:22,850 --> 00:14:26,730 S5: smart demon, why would I bother that person? I would say, 282 00:14:26,730 --> 00:14:29,090 S5: let him just keep sleeping because they don't even think 283 00:14:29,090 --> 00:14:33,490 S5: we're here. And you know, if they start getting close 284 00:14:33,490 --> 00:14:36,380 S5: to snooping around it, then bring something ugly down that 285 00:14:36,380 --> 00:14:38,380 S5: will have them go. Oh, that was a bad idea. 286 00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:42,500 S5: But I'm suggesting that sometimes I believe it can be pride. 287 00:14:42,740 --> 00:14:45,620 S5: Sometimes it can just be not as well thought through. 288 00:14:45,620 --> 00:14:47,540 S5: But just. This is what I've always been taught. This 289 00:14:47,540 --> 00:14:49,300 S5: is what I think is true. So this is what 290 00:14:49,300 --> 00:14:51,860 S5: I say. And if I say, would it be a 291 00:14:51,860 --> 00:14:54,420 S5: good idea to go back and check scripture? Is it 292 00:14:54,420 --> 00:14:57,580 S5: ambiguous on this whole situation? I say, no, I don't 293 00:14:57,580 --> 00:15:00,940 S5: believe it is. I will have others say, if Jesus, 294 00:15:00,980 --> 00:15:02,540 S5: you know, thought it was that big a deal, why 295 00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:04,260 S5: don't we have a whole book on it, like the 296 00:15:04,260 --> 00:15:07,540 S5: book of Romans for salvation? And I have responded, why 297 00:15:07,540 --> 00:15:10,060 S5: don't we have a whole book on the ontology of 298 00:15:10,060 --> 00:15:13,140 S5: God that he's Trinity? And you know, if you're going 299 00:15:13,180 --> 00:15:14,700 S5: to play that game, why don't we have a whole 300 00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,180 S5: book on heaven? Tell me what it's going to be. 301 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:20,460 S5: I mean, if it was really important, wouldn't his identity 302 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,420 S5: be important? Wouldn't our our our final, eternal home be? 303 00:15:24,460 --> 00:15:26,940 S5: In other words, there are other things where if people say, 304 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:29,220 S5: why isn't there a whole book, you know, that makes 305 00:15:29,220 --> 00:15:32,100 S5: it important? I would say a, I think there are 306 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:34,460 S5: plenty of things that if the Scripture talks about it, 307 00:15:34,460 --> 00:15:36,180 S5: I don't say, well, if I hear about it over 308 00:15:36,180 --> 00:15:38,260 S5: and over, then it must be important. But if I 309 00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:40,860 S5: only hear about it, how many times were we told 310 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:43,060 S5: he'd be born of a virgin? He would be born 311 00:15:43,060 --> 00:15:45,860 S5: in Bethlehem, and he'd be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. 312 00:15:46,420 --> 00:15:49,500 S5: I mean, I recall one of each. And yet if 313 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:51,620 S5: someone said, you know, I want a whole book on it, 314 00:15:51,620 --> 00:15:54,180 S5: then I guess I'd deny the first advent of of 315 00:15:54,220 --> 00:15:57,820 S5: of Messiah Jesus. So that's how I would respond to 316 00:15:57,820 --> 00:15:58,780 S5: your question. Drew. 317 00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:01,740 S1: Drew, thank you very much. Appreciate your being a part 318 00:16:01,740 --> 00:16:06,980 S1: of this. (877) 548-3675. Herb, I move to you next in Wisconsin. 319 00:16:06,980 --> 00:16:09,260 S1: Thanks for being here. And your question, please. 320 00:16:10,140 --> 00:16:14,180 S7: Hi, Janet. Hi, Carl. Um, when you're bothered by, uh, 321 00:16:14,220 --> 00:16:18,300 S7: temptations to cast the temptations, the darts and arrows back 322 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:22,060 S7: to Satan. And the question I have is the demons. 323 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:25,380 S7: Are you to send the demons to the pit of hell? 324 00:16:25,540 --> 00:16:29,620 S7: Because in Jesus, uh, sent the demons into pigs and 325 00:16:29,620 --> 00:16:32,820 S7: they went over the edge of the clip is, uh, 326 00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:37,020 S7: the hell in in in, uh, active right now where 327 00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:38,060 S7: you can't set them. 328 00:16:39,860 --> 00:16:42,260 S5: Great. Great question on a couple of levels, and it 329 00:16:42,260 --> 00:16:44,060 S5: was hard for me to hear it sounds like you're 330 00:16:44,060 --> 00:16:46,380 S5: flying in a jet or something. So if I miss 331 00:16:46,380 --> 00:16:49,100 S5: something that you said, then, Janet, I hope you can 332 00:16:49,100 --> 00:16:50,700 S5: help me. But I would say one. 333 00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:54,140 S1: Uh, can I can I can I interrupt you? Only because. Herb, 334 00:16:54,140 --> 00:16:56,820 S1: it's a great question. Two. The music's playing in three. Carol, 335 00:16:56,820 --> 00:16:58,140 S1: I want to give you all the time in the world. 336 00:16:58,140 --> 00:17:00,460 S1: So let me just keep the question out there first. 337 00:17:00,460 --> 00:17:02,300 S1: And when we come back, we'll get the answer to 338 00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:04,380 S1: your question, herb, because I want to know, too. Does 339 00:17:04,380 --> 00:17:07,379 S1: that mean hell is alive and taking occupants right now, 340 00:17:07,420 --> 00:17:10,180 S1: or are they someplace else, as evidenced by what we 341 00:17:10,180 --> 00:17:12,219 S1: saw with the demons in the pigs in the gospel? 342 00:17:12,260 --> 00:17:14,420 S1: Great question. And you're going to get a superb answer 343 00:17:14,420 --> 00:17:16,660 S1: from doctor Carol pain right after this. This is how 344 00:17:16,660 --> 00:17:19,340 S1: it works. Any question you have on spiritual warfare, you 345 00:17:19,340 --> 00:17:24,780 S1: have an expert in doctor Carol pain. (877) 548-3675 back after this, 346 00:17:24,820 --> 00:17:41,350 S1: we'll get the answer to her question. Doctor Carl Payne 347 00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:43,590 S1: is with us. He is currently on staff at Antioch 348 00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:47,190 S1: Bible Church in Redmond, Washington. His primary role there is 349 00:17:47,190 --> 00:17:50,470 S1: serving as pastor of Leadership Development and Discipleship Training. And 350 00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:52,150 S1: that's really what he's doing with us, isn't he? When 351 00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:54,870 S1: he answers his questions, the questions that are being put 352 00:17:54,869 --> 00:17:58,310 S1: to him. Excellent book on the topic, Spiritual Warfare Christians, 353 00:17:58,310 --> 00:18:01,350 S1: Demonization and Deliverance. Many of you have gotten and read 354 00:18:01,350 --> 00:18:03,629 S1: the book. It's there on our information page. If you 355 00:18:03,670 --> 00:18:05,229 S1: would like to get a copy, you can click on 356 00:18:05,230 --> 00:18:07,630 S1: through and discover how to get it her best. An 357 00:18:07,630 --> 00:18:12,150 S1: excellent question from Wisconsin. Basically, when demons are cast out, 358 00:18:12,190 --> 00:18:14,790 S1: where do they go? So Carl, we're looking forward to 359 00:18:14,790 --> 00:18:15,310 S1: the answer. 360 00:18:16,310 --> 00:18:20,350 S5: Well, I'll hope that we don't disappoint because there's there's 361 00:18:20,350 --> 00:18:24,710 S5: a lot there. But here's how I would answer that. 362 00:18:24,750 --> 00:18:29,750 S5: I would say that know that when demons are cast out. 363 00:18:29,910 --> 00:18:32,590 S5: Jesus didn't say he was sending them to hell. They 364 00:18:32,630 --> 00:18:34,470 S5: were asking him, are they going to have to go 365 00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:38,030 S5: to the pit or the abyss early? And the way 366 00:18:38,030 --> 00:18:40,469 S5: I've said it, this is, I would say, hell or Hades. 367 00:18:40,910 --> 00:18:44,710 S5: I believe Scripture indicates it's kind of a temporary holding 368 00:18:44,710 --> 00:18:48,030 S5: pen for both saints and sinners, if you would. I 369 00:18:48,030 --> 00:18:50,790 S5: think you see that with the rich man. And Lazarus 370 00:18:50,869 --> 00:18:52,830 S5: didn't say, I'm going to give you a parable about 371 00:18:52,830 --> 00:18:55,310 S5: a rich man. He said, there was a man named Lazarus. 372 00:18:55,790 --> 00:19:00,590 S5: And when they died, one was, he says in Abraham's bosom, uh, 373 00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:03,909 S5: you know, a good place. And the other guy not 374 00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:08,070 S5: liking where he's at, but both of them ultimately, we 375 00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:10,590 S5: know according to Scripture, the unbeliever is going to be 376 00:19:10,590 --> 00:19:15,429 S5: in a lake of fire. Uh, that day is coming. Uh, 377 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:18,790 S5: Scripture is very clear on that. And the believer's ultimate 378 00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:20,830 S5: home is going to be a new heaven and a 379 00:19:20,830 --> 00:19:23,430 S5: new earth. Scripture is clear on that. So what are 380 00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:25,710 S5: we talking about? So I've said, if you'll go to 381 00:19:26,109 --> 00:19:28,510 S5: and they're easy to remember. This way, if you go 382 00:19:28,510 --> 00:19:32,189 S5: to to Luke chapter nine or excuse me, chapter 830 383 00:19:32,230 --> 00:19:35,630 S5: and 31. And then if you look at revelation one, 384 00:19:35,670 --> 00:19:39,869 S5: excuse me, chapter nine one and two, uh, you can 385 00:19:39,869 --> 00:19:42,590 S5: toss in verse 11 if you want. And then revelation 386 00:19:42,590 --> 00:19:46,430 S5: 21 through three, we see a place that's identified in 387 00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:50,669 S5: those as the abyss or the pit. So they're different. 388 00:19:50,670 --> 00:19:52,870 S5: If people say, well, the abyss, the pit, heaven, hell 389 00:19:52,869 --> 00:19:54,910 S5: or Hades are all the same, no they're not. One 390 00:19:54,910 --> 00:20:01,229 S5: is a temporary holding place. That's hell. That's that's, uh, Hades. Um, 391 00:20:01,750 --> 00:20:03,989 S5: that's not where demons are going. Demons are going to 392 00:20:03,990 --> 00:20:06,030 S5: be going to the abyss or pit, which is a 393 00:20:06,030 --> 00:20:10,430 S5: holding place that will be permanent for them until at 394 00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:14,869 S5: the end of the Millennial Kingdom coming in the final judgment, 395 00:20:14,869 --> 00:20:19,150 S5: it says that Satan, the false prophet, his beast, and 396 00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:20,949 S5: all that followed them are going to be going to 397 00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:23,950 S5: that lake of fire, and that all believers will be 398 00:20:23,950 --> 00:20:25,920 S5: going to a new heaven and a new earth that 399 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,000 S5: Jesus says in John 14. He's preparing our spot for 400 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,200 S5: us now. So if someone says, what's the difference? I'd 401 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,280 S5: say one is temporary. Well, they're both temporary, but one 402 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,040 S5: is believer or non-believer, and that's before final judgment. The other, 403 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:42,320 S5: that lake of fire, new heaven and new earth is 404 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:46,199 S5: going to be a final. It's finality. But in between 405 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,280 S5: where believers and unbelievers, humans are going to either hell 406 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,879 S5: or Hades as a temporary stop. Demons are going to 407 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,439 S5: the abyss or the pit, and it takes them out 408 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,240 S5: of commission. So when when they ask, are you you 409 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,399 S5: sending us there before they even know that they're there? 410 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,280 S5: They're not wanting to go there because they want the 411 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,359 S5: freedom to run. So if someone uses those four words 412 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,880 S5: and says, oh, they're just synonyms for the same thing. 413 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:16,560 S5: Not true. You can parallel abyss and pit. Yes. One thing, 414 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:22,120 S5: two words. Same thing or hell, Hades. Something else. But 415 00:21:22,119 --> 00:21:26,800 S5: it's a mistake to put them all together. Stopping point 416 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:33,159 S5: temporarily for humans. Stopping point temporarily for supernatural demonic beings. 417 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,400 S5: Their ultimate homes are going to be different to a 418 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,200 S5: lake of fire or a new heaven and a new earth. 419 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,600 S1: Wow. Thank you so much for the question. And Carl, 420 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:48,119 S1: thank you for the answer. (877) 548-3675. Pete in Illinois. Thanks 421 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:49,879 S1: for stopping by. Your question please. 422 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,600 S8: Yes, Janet. Thank you for taking my call. And I 423 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:58,680 S8: asked the question that can Satan really read my mind? 424 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,040 S8: And if so, can I have the scripture to study 425 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,200 S8: to learn more about it? 426 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:08,600 S5: Mm. Good question. Number one. Simple answer. No, he cannot 427 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,800 S5: read your mind because that would assume he's omniscient. But 428 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:18,760 S5: he can certainly say with my, my legions of minions, 429 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:23,050 S5: when people get involved in wrong things and wrong thinking 430 00:22:23,050 --> 00:22:26,330 S5: on a very permanent basis. You don't have to be 431 00:22:26,330 --> 00:22:29,450 S5: a Phi Beta Kappa to say, this cat is in 432 00:22:29,450 --> 00:22:31,970 S5: porn all day long. Why don't we hit him with 433 00:22:32,010 --> 00:22:36,090 S5: pornographic thoughts? Or, you know, I'm going to be a. 434 00:22:36,369 --> 00:22:38,970 S5: I'm going to be a gazillionaire. And I'm going to 435 00:22:39,010 --> 00:22:41,449 S5: retire at age 25. Why don't we hit him with 436 00:22:41,450 --> 00:22:44,410 S5: everything we can from the world and the flesh, and 437 00:22:44,410 --> 00:22:47,570 S5: see if we can get him focused on anything but Jesus. 438 00:22:47,810 --> 00:22:51,210 S5: In other words, they know they're not stupid. But no, 439 00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:53,690 S5: they're not omniscient. Now, the second part of your question 440 00:22:53,690 --> 00:22:57,490 S5: can I read Scripture to understand how to respond effectively? 441 00:22:57,650 --> 00:23:00,650 S5: They don't have to be mind readers or omniscient for 442 00:23:00,650 --> 00:23:04,689 S5: you to say, My God is omniscient. He has given 443 00:23:04,690 --> 00:23:08,730 S5: me Scripture that is true not for time, but for eternity. 444 00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:11,650 S5: And when he says, when I resist the devil, he 445 00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:14,210 S5: will flee from me, which tells me, then don't run 446 00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:17,570 S5: from him. Or as Janet's opening, don't ignore them or 447 00:23:17,570 --> 00:23:21,369 S5: redefine them. None of that is fighting against them. Or 448 00:23:21,369 --> 00:23:23,210 S5: when I'm told, what if they hit me with these 449 00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:26,610 S5: little flaming arrows and and I'm told that, uh, in 450 00:23:26,609 --> 00:23:29,970 S5: revelation 12 that the brethren overcame them through the blood 451 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:31,810 S5: of the lamb and the word of their testimony, clearly 452 00:23:31,810 --> 00:23:36,930 S5: they understood Scripture. Or Paul writes that in 616 of Ephesians, 453 00:23:36,930 --> 00:23:39,050 S5: you've got a shield of faith that you can put up, 454 00:23:39,050 --> 00:23:43,090 S5: and it will put out the flaming arrows. So is 455 00:23:43,090 --> 00:23:46,250 S5: it true that I can understand biblically, I in that 456 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:49,209 S5: book I, Janet mentioned, I say it's one thing to 457 00:23:49,250 --> 00:23:53,090 S5: recognize it, it's another thing to respond to it. If 458 00:23:53,090 --> 00:23:55,850 S5: I am in my bliss thinking, I don't worry about 459 00:23:55,850 --> 00:23:59,330 S5: recognizing it because I don't worry about responding to it, 460 00:23:59,330 --> 00:24:02,090 S5: you are going to look like a target, a very 461 00:24:02,090 --> 00:24:05,570 S5: desirable target, because you don't fight back. So just keep 462 00:24:05,609 --> 00:24:06,770 S5: knocking you down. 463 00:24:08,210 --> 00:24:10,410 S1: Thank you so much for the question and for being 464 00:24:10,410 --> 00:24:15,210 S1: a part of this. (877) 548-3675. Time goes fast when Doctor 465 00:24:15,210 --> 00:24:17,610 S1: Carl Payne is here. So call in with your questions 466 00:24:17,609 --> 00:24:21,130 S1: on spiritual warfare because Doctor Carl Payne, as you've evidenced 467 00:24:21,130 --> 00:24:24,650 S1: so far, you will get clear, crystal clear biblical answers 468 00:24:24,650 --> 00:24:28,010 S1: about the reality of spiritual warfare and why we have 469 00:24:28,010 --> 00:24:48,730 S1: victory in Jesus. (877) 548-3675. Jesus told us to go into 470 00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:50,409 S1: the world and not run away from it. And he 471 00:24:50,410 --> 00:24:52,530 S1: didn't say it would be easy in the market with Janet. 472 00:24:52,530 --> 00:24:54,730 S1: Partial is a program designed to come alongside and walk 473 00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:57,609 S1: with you into the marketplace of ideas. Partial partners are 474 00:24:57,609 --> 00:25:00,410 S1: those friends who support our program on a regular monthly basis. 475 00:25:00,410 --> 00:25:03,330 S1: They know the mandate of influencing and occupying until he comes. 476 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:05,409 S1: So why don't you become part of the inner circle 477 00:25:05,410 --> 00:25:09,250 S1: of support? Call 877 Janet 58 or go to in 478 00:25:09,290 --> 00:25:15,129 S1: the market with Janet Parshall. We're visiting with Doctor Carl Payne. 479 00:25:15,130 --> 00:25:19,020 S1: He's a pastor, teacher, speaker, author, former chaplain for the 480 00:25:19,020 --> 00:25:23,100 S1: Seattle Seahawks on staff at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington, 481 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,980 S1: where he serves as pastor of Leadership Development and Discipleship Training. 482 00:25:27,180 --> 00:25:29,500 S1: He's got a marvelous book on the topic. It's been 483 00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:35,940 S1: updated and republished. It's called Spiritual Warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance, 484 00:25:35,940 --> 00:25:42,300 S1: and it is, quite frankly, outstanding. (877) 548-3675. That's our number. 485 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:44,780 S1: Any question you have on spiritual warfare. And we've got 486 00:25:44,780 --> 00:25:49,780 S1: some great ones lined up. (877) 548-3675. Beth, I welcome you 487 00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:52,220 S1: from South Dakota. Please. Your question for Doctor Payne. 488 00:25:53,380 --> 00:25:55,619 S9: Yeah. I was just reading in Matthew today where the 489 00:25:55,619 --> 00:26:01,820 S9: disciples had tried to deliver somebody from demons and wasn't 490 00:26:01,820 --> 00:26:04,060 S9: able to, and they were asking Jesus and he said, oh, 491 00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:07,300 S9: you of little faith. So my question is, um, what 492 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:10,540 S9: does what does faith play in the part of, um, 493 00:26:11,140 --> 00:26:15,179 S9: helping with deliverance or fighting the fighting, the war. 494 00:26:16,740 --> 00:26:19,180 S5: I think it's a good question. I'm going to give 495 00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:23,780 S5: you something that I believe is biblically consistent. Uh, it 496 00:26:23,780 --> 00:26:26,780 S5: may or may not satisfy you or some of the listeners, 497 00:26:26,780 --> 00:26:29,020 S5: but it's where I've landed on that. You're talking about 498 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:33,139 S5: Matthew 17. They've been to the Mount of Transfiguration. Jesus 499 00:26:33,140 --> 00:26:36,260 S5: with three of three, I think 3 or 4, his 500 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:39,500 S5: inner circle. He comes back down and it says, you know, 501 00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:42,460 S5: that a father with his son and he's unhappy because 502 00:26:42,460 --> 00:26:44,940 S5: the disciples have been trying to make demons leave and 503 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:48,620 S5: they can't. And so they ask, you know, why, why, why, why, 504 00:26:48,780 --> 00:26:52,780 S5: why couldn't they make him go? And Jesus response to 505 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:57,899 S5: the disciples was, oh, you of little faith. And and, uh, 506 00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:00,979 S5: I'll just give you my best guess. I would say 507 00:27:00,980 --> 00:27:03,820 S5: I don't think when people try and get into, do 508 00:27:03,820 --> 00:27:06,659 S5: you have enough faith to believe God for deliverance? Do 509 00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:09,980 S5: you have enough faith to believe God for a miracle, etc.? 510 00:27:10,420 --> 00:27:13,740 S5: I think too often that's going the wrong way. And 511 00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:16,780 S5: I'll be really frank. And I'm I'm sure I'm wrong 512 00:27:16,780 --> 00:27:19,460 S5: in some cases, but I think sometimes it's people who 513 00:27:19,460 --> 00:27:22,859 S5: are pretending to be something they're not. They pray with 514 00:27:22,859 --> 00:27:25,340 S5: a person. If it happens, they'll say, it's because of 515 00:27:25,340 --> 00:27:28,580 S5: my gifting and my faith and my anointing. If it 516 00:27:28,580 --> 00:27:30,820 S5: doesn't happen, they'll say it's because of your lack of 517 00:27:30,820 --> 00:27:33,300 S5: faith or secret sin. Now, I'm not saying that always 518 00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:35,700 S5: happens that way, but it happens often enough that I 519 00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:38,140 S5: get calls from people going, I don't even know what 520 00:27:38,140 --> 00:27:40,700 S5: my secret sin is, but that's what I was told. 521 00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:44,219 S5: And I said, do you understand that successful deliverance has 522 00:27:44,220 --> 00:27:48,540 S5: far more to do with the delegated authority that Christians 523 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:52,340 S5: have been given over the powers of darkness? Luke 1018 524 00:27:52,340 --> 00:27:56,380 S5: to 20 second Corinthians ten three through five are both 525 00:27:56,380 --> 00:27:59,780 S5: good examples of that, and that if Jesus has given 526 00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:03,260 S5: you delegated authority, then even the 70 when they returned, saying, 527 00:28:03,260 --> 00:28:06,740 S5: even demons are respond to us in your name. I've 528 00:28:06,780 --> 00:28:09,620 S5: given you authority to tread upon the serpents, scorpions over 529 00:28:09,619 --> 00:28:13,110 S5: all the power of the enemy. Underline all they shall 530 00:28:13,109 --> 00:28:16,870 S5: not harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice because spirits are 531 00:28:16,869 --> 00:28:19,550 S5: subject to you. Rejoice because your names are recorded in heaven. 532 00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:22,350 S5: Or the second Corinthians ten. We've been given divinely powerful 533 00:28:22,350 --> 00:28:27,550 S5: weaponry that is capable of destroying demonic strongholds and undermining 534 00:28:27,550 --> 00:28:31,790 S5: the empty speculation raised against Christ. Therefore, keep your thoughts 535 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:36,030 S5: captive to Christ. I'm suggesting, I think the focus at 536 00:28:36,030 --> 00:28:38,710 S5: least my last 40 some years working with this has 537 00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:42,350 S5: been far more upon. I don't ask some person, do 538 00:28:42,350 --> 00:28:45,030 S5: you have the faith enough now? They're now they're going, 539 00:28:45,070 --> 00:28:47,390 S5: I don't know. I'm not sure. If I do. I'm 540 00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:49,870 S5: going to say to you understand that the authority of 541 00:28:49,870 --> 00:28:53,510 S5: the creator is greater than any of his creation. Yes. 542 00:28:53,710 --> 00:28:56,110 S5: Have you committed your life to the Lord Jesus Christ? 543 00:28:56,150 --> 00:29:00,550 S5: Not as religious, but he's Savior? Yes. Will you be 100% 544 00:29:00,550 --> 00:29:03,470 S5: honest about anything that open doors the word tapas. We 545 00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:06,070 S5: get into that another time where you've given them not 546 00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:09,470 S5: ownership of your life, but an ability to control areas 547 00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:13,350 S5: of your life if you're a believer. Um, I'll be honest. 548 00:29:13,350 --> 00:29:16,350 S5: Will you fight? You're told. Resist the devil, not run 549 00:29:16,350 --> 00:29:18,990 S5: from him. If a person will say, I'm Christian, and 550 00:29:18,990 --> 00:29:21,350 S5: they and they are, I will be honest. And they 551 00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:24,070 S5: are about anything that open doors. And if I am 552 00:29:24,070 --> 00:29:26,470 S5: saying I'm here to fight, I can say I have 553 00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:28,790 S5: been beat up like a rag doll my whole life 554 00:29:28,790 --> 00:29:31,270 S5: by things that seem to live in my mind and 555 00:29:31,270 --> 00:29:33,990 S5: make me feel like a prison instead of a temple, 556 00:29:34,190 --> 00:29:37,350 S5: but I am done. I am relying on the creator 557 00:29:37,390 --> 00:29:41,270 S5: whose authority is greater than his creation, and at best, 558 00:29:41,310 --> 00:29:43,830 S5: whatever is dealing with me has to be from part 559 00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:47,550 S5: of the creation. I win because Jesus Christ won. So 560 00:29:47,550 --> 00:29:50,710 S5: if a person will go after that with that understanding, 561 00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:53,070 S5: I have not seen where demons are able to stand 562 00:29:53,070 --> 00:29:57,350 S5: against that. Now here's my guess. I think that those disciples, 563 00:29:57,350 --> 00:30:00,870 S5: minus their big four or big three and Jesus, probably 564 00:30:00,870 --> 00:30:04,150 S5: when they are approached, uh, you know, it's like, heck yes, 565 00:30:04,150 --> 00:30:07,230 S5: we're part of the gang, you know, I rebuke you, 566 00:30:07,270 --> 00:30:12,350 S5: demon of whatever leave, never connecting the idea. This is 567 00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:15,750 S5: authority that's delegated from Christ. You do this in the name, 568 00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:19,190 S5: which means the delegated authority. Uh, you know, prayers that 569 00:30:19,190 --> 00:30:21,310 S5: he would honor. And I'm wondering if they were just 570 00:30:21,310 --> 00:30:23,670 S5: a little bit full of themselves. And that's why when 571 00:30:23,670 --> 00:30:26,510 S5: Jesus comes back and he says, you of little faith. 572 00:30:26,550 --> 00:30:29,510 S5: I mean, don't you get it? I sent you out, 573 00:30:29,550 --> 00:30:31,550 S5: you know, with authority to be able to work with this. 574 00:30:31,550 --> 00:30:34,470 S5: But now you think it's about you. And that's why 575 00:30:34,470 --> 00:30:38,030 S5: I will respond. And again, it's not everyone I am. 576 00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:40,150 S5: If you love Jesus, I'm for you. I don't care 577 00:30:40,150 --> 00:30:42,790 S5: what label you wear. I tell people I care what's 578 00:30:42,790 --> 00:30:44,750 S5: in the bottle, not the label on the bottle, because 579 00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:47,470 S5: most people don't know what the labels mean anymore anyway. 580 00:30:47,790 --> 00:30:52,070 S5: But when someone wants to say I work miracles, or 581 00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:55,150 S5: I cast out demons, or I this or I that, 582 00:30:55,150 --> 00:30:57,630 S5: I say the more often you say I and you 583 00:30:57,630 --> 00:31:00,709 S5: make it sound like it's all about you, the less 584 00:31:00,710 --> 00:31:03,670 S5: I believe you actually understand about who is the one 585 00:31:03,670 --> 00:31:06,320 S5: that works through you, and who's the one that actually 586 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,080 S5: does the work? And I think it's kind of Paul saying, 587 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,000 S5: if you're going to boast, boast in the Lord, boast 588 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,120 S5: in the Lord. Because ultimately in four seven of First Corinthians, 589 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,600 S5: why do you boast about things that were given to you? 590 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:22,320 S5: If delegated authority is given, then why do I make 591 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,640 S5: it sound like it's because I have a super? And 592 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,480 S5: I've had people say, well, you have a super anointing 593 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,880 S5: because you're really good with this, so I need you 594 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,320 S5: to pray for me and not Christian. A, B, C, 595 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,920 S5: or D, I say if you're in Christ or delegated 596 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:39,480 S5: authority is exactly the same. I think the disciples forgot that, 597 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:41,680 S5: and I think they tried to wing that one on 598 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,320 S5: their own. And I think that's why when Jesus came 599 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,800 S5: back and said, it's not about you as a band, 600 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,520 S5: it's about you and me and me and you, and 601 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:51,600 S5: don't forget it. 602 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,280 S1: Mm. Wow. Thank you so much for the question, Beth. 603 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:04,880 S1: I really appreciate it. 87754836758775483675. And in Alaska. I welcome 604 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,080 S1: you and your question, please. 605 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:11,000 S10: Hello. Thank you so much for taking my question. Um, 606 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,160 S10: could you tell me, please, how might you respond to 607 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,920 S10: a person who, um, tells you that they have angels 608 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,120 S10: visiting them often and that their names, the names of 609 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,160 S10: the angels are the same as friends of theirs? 610 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:32,880 S5: Um, I'm never going to say that. That is. It 611 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,480 S5: can't happen. I mean, can God do this? Can God 612 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,240 S5: do that? But I would say the focus of the 613 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,080 S5: New Testament is clearly on Christ in you. In the 614 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:47,120 S5: book of Colossians, Paul goes after the Colossians in chapter two, uh, 615 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,840 S5: read started about verse 19 or 20. He basically says, 616 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,880 S5: why do you take your stand on dreams, visions and angels? 617 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,440 S5: Your stand is on Christ. So anytime I have somebody 618 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,760 S5: too much wanting to talk to me all about, uh, 619 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,090 S5: you know, the visions. I have the angels who talk 620 00:33:05,090 --> 00:33:10,170 S5: to me. Jesus who appears to me. He gives me insight, information. 621 00:33:10,450 --> 00:33:13,290 S5: I'm not going to say Jesus couldn't appear to you. 622 00:33:13,290 --> 00:33:16,050 S5: I'm not going to say an angel can't talk to you. 623 00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:18,290 S5: But it's interesting. The writer of the book of Hebrews says, 624 00:33:18,290 --> 00:33:22,050 S5: we entertain angels unaware. Uh, you know, uh, you know, 625 00:33:22,090 --> 00:33:25,250 S5: sometimes we're not even aware of it. So why someone 626 00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:28,370 S5: would say, uh, I guess it's an assumption I am, 627 00:33:28,410 --> 00:33:30,290 S5: I am, I don't know, I don't know this person, 628 00:33:30,290 --> 00:33:33,050 S5: but if it's man, I am so spiritually tuned in 629 00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:35,410 S5: that man. Just angels talk to me regularly and walk 630 00:33:35,410 --> 00:33:38,650 S5: with me. I would probably say I would far rather 631 00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:41,770 S5: hear from the Holy Spirit. I would far rather hear 632 00:33:41,770 --> 00:33:45,170 S5: what God teaches me through Scripture, so that my founding 633 00:33:45,170 --> 00:33:48,410 S5: and grounding is not on something which can be duplicated, 634 00:33:48,930 --> 00:33:53,490 S5: because demons can certainly manifest themselves. Demons certainly trying sometimes 635 00:33:53,490 --> 00:33:57,090 S5: present themselves as angels. And why not? It's a good 636 00:33:57,090 --> 00:34:00,010 S5: plan if they appear as something with a pitchfork and 637 00:34:00,010 --> 00:34:02,690 S5: a red tail. I'm going to go. I'm running from that. 638 00:34:02,690 --> 00:34:04,930 S5: If it appears and says, I'm your friend, here's what 639 00:34:04,930 --> 00:34:07,130 S5: I want you to do. Learn to lean on me. 640 00:34:07,370 --> 00:34:11,170 S5: You might have a sincere but naive believer go, oh 641 00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:14,130 S5: my goodness. You know, maybe I need to start listening. 642 00:34:14,130 --> 00:34:16,730 S5: And then. Oh yeah, and see, you've got something extra special. 643 00:34:16,969 --> 00:34:20,010 S5: I'm going. It's interesting. Ephesians one three and four says 644 00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:23,130 S5: that in Christ we have been given everything that pertains 645 00:34:23,130 --> 00:34:26,490 S5: to life and godliness. I have not said God can't 646 00:34:26,489 --> 00:34:29,170 S5: do special things for some. He certainly did for Paul. 647 00:34:30,330 --> 00:34:33,290 S5: But I'm saying, why try and make that normative or 648 00:34:33,330 --> 00:34:35,410 S5: some kind of a litmus test? And again, I'm not 649 00:34:35,410 --> 00:34:37,810 S5: saying your friends doing that. I don't know your friend, 650 00:34:37,930 --> 00:34:40,410 S5: but when I have someone, it's just like when someone 651 00:34:40,410 --> 00:34:42,850 S5: wants to lead off with me all about Carl. Let's 652 00:34:42,850 --> 00:34:46,210 S5: talk about spiritual gifts. I'm saying I'm happy doing that 653 00:34:46,210 --> 00:34:49,930 S5: God gives them. But I also wonder every time we 654 00:34:49,930 --> 00:34:52,529 S5: get together, you want to talk about spiritual gifts. Do 655 00:34:52,530 --> 00:34:57,170 S5: you ever talk to non-Christians about salvation? Mm. See, I mean, 656 00:34:57,210 --> 00:35:01,010 S5: it's just subtle. It has me talking about something in 657 00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:05,250 S5: the Bible that's already directed at believers, instead of talking 658 00:35:05,290 --> 00:35:08,210 S5: to non-Christians who need the Savior. So it's like, if 659 00:35:08,210 --> 00:35:11,250 S5: I can't get you to quit talking about Jesus, maybe 660 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:13,609 S5: I can get you so wrapped into something that's kind 661 00:35:13,610 --> 00:35:16,250 S5: of believer to believer. You don't have any time left 662 00:35:16,250 --> 00:35:19,370 S5: over to talk to the non-Christians. So I'm not saying 663 00:35:19,370 --> 00:35:23,370 S5: it's it's insincere. I'm not saying any of that. I'm 664 00:35:23,370 --> 00:35:27,529 S5: just saying I am not commanded to seek angels. I 665 00:35:27,570 --> 00:35:30,890 S5: am not commanded to pray through angels. Ephesians two says, 666 00:35:31,050 --> 00:35:34,450 S5: I have the privilege. The book of Hebrews chapter four says, 667 00:35:34,450 --> 00:35:38,609 S5: I have the confidence to pray confidently because I've been 668 00:35:38,610 --> 00:35:41,450 S5: given access to the throne room of God through Jesus. 669 00:35:41,530 --> 00:35:44,370 S5: So when people say, I have to be visited by angels, 670 00:35:44,370 --> 00:35:46,569 S5: I go, no, you don't. You may be, but you 671 00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:48,810 S5: don't have to be. Well, I have to pray through 672 00:35:48,810 --> 00:35:51,609 S5: and ask somehow. I'm not qualified to pray. No, you're 673 00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:55,130 S5: qualified because you're in Christ. So when people start chasing 674 00:35:55,130 --> 00:35:57,450 S5: some of that, it's all they want to talk about. 675 00:35:58,020 --> 00:35:59,540 S5: I'm less than impressed. 676 00:36:01,060 --> 00:36:03,899 S1: Thank you so much for the question. I really appreciate it. 677 00:36:03,900 --> 00:36:08,060 S1: An (877) 548-3675. Let me take a break. We're going to 678 00:36:08,060 --> 00:36:12,540 S1: come right back to the calls. (877) 548-3675. And can I 679 00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:14,780 S1: lead you again to the information page in the market 680 00:36:14,780 --> 00:36:18,540 S1: with Janet Parshall? And don't forget the Kyle has an 681 00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:22,580 S1: excellent book on this spiritual warfare Christians Demonization and Deliverance 682 00:36:22,620 --> 00:36:24,620 S1: go to in the market with Janet Parshall. Under the 683 00:36:24,620 --> 00:36:27,259 S1: summation of the program, click on the red box that 684 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:29,779 S1: says Program Details and Audio get you over to the 685 00:36:29,780 --> 00:36:32,660 S1: information page, a link to Carl's website, a link to 686 00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:35,300 S1: his book so you can do more work after this back. 687 00:36:48,420 --> 00:36:52,700 S1: Spiritual warfare. Christians Demonization and deliverance. That is the book 688 00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:55,299 S1: that Doctor Carl Payne has authored. He is our guest. 689 00:36:55,340 --> 00:36:58,660 S1: He's on staff at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington. 690 00:36:58,660 --> 00:37:04,700 S1: Back to the phones at (877) 548-3675. Lola in Ohio, thank 691 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:07,180 S1: you for your patience. I'm glad you're here. Your question please. 692 00:37:08,180 --> 00:37:12,460 S11: Hi. Um, I'm witnessing to a Jewish friend that says 693 00:37:12,460 --> 00:37:15,739 S11: she's not a Christian, but she's searching. But she said 694 00:37:15,739 --> 00:37:19,860 S11: that Jews don't believe in hell, and that for Christians 695 00:37:19,860 --> 00:37:23,379 S11: to talk about people going to hell that were unkind 696 00:37:23,380 --> 00:37:25,379 S11: and she doesn't like it. And she said, God is 697 00:37:25,380 --> 00:37:28,460 S11: a merciful God. So how do you address that? 698 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:35,540 S5: Um, good question. I don't get that one very often. Um, 699 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:38,779 S5: I would say I would answer this way. I would 700 00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:42,540 S5: probably with a, with a Jewish person, try and turn 701 00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:49,020 S5: the focus on is Jesus the promised Messiah or not? 702 00:37:49,460 --> 00:37:51,259 S5: And I might tell her, there can be a lot 703 00:37:51,260 --> 00:37:55,180 S5: of things that I appreciate or don't appreciate. I more 704 00:37:55,180 --> 00:37:58,580 S5: often catch. How come Joshua. You know when he's going 705 00:37:58,580 --> 00:38:02,259 S5: through Canaan, you know, killed so many people. And then 706 00:38:02,260 --> 00:38:04,419 S5: I'll have people say, well, that's how Jews always fought. 707 00:38:04,460 --> 00:38:06,980 S5: And I'd say no. Leviticus 20 said normally they would 708 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:10,580 S5: first try and offer terms of peace, and they were 709 00:38:10,580 --> 00:38:12,700 S5: told they couldn't scorch the earth. There were a number 710 00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:15,100 S5: of things they told they couldn't do trying for peace 711 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:17,580 S5: first when they went through Canaan, I'll say it was 712 00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:20,500 S5: a particularly evil group. And that's what he says because 713 00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:23,140 S5: of their their evil. When someone brings that up, I'm 714 00:38:23,180 --> 00:38:25,460 S5: going to say kind of like with the Christian that 715 00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:28,580 S5: says to me, I went to church, the church was terrible, 716 00:38:28,580 --> 00:38:31,540 S5: the pastor was horrible. Therefore all churches and all pastors 717 00:38:31,540 --> 00:38:34,419 S5: are horrible. And I'll say, I think before you get 718 00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:36,420 S5: lost in that, how about if we look at who 719 00:38:36,420 --> 00:38:39,420 S5: Jesus is, who did he claim to be? Who did 720 00:38:39,420 --> 00:38:41,660 S5: Scripture say he would be? We could look at a 721 00:38:41,660 --> 00:38:44,739 S5: number of things on that. And I want you to 722 00:38:44,780 --> 00:38:48,460 S5: think about Christianity in terms of if Jesus is who 723 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:50,859 S5: he claimed to be. We can learn a lot of 724 00:38:50,860 --> 00:38:54,310 S5: things about other things and we can talk about injustices. 725 00:38:54,469 --> 00:38:57,110 S5: And certainly there have been in. You know, things unjust 726 00:38:57,150 --> 00:39:00,590 S5: done in the name of of religion, just like Marxism 727 00:39:00,630 --> 00:39:03,750 S5: or Marx makes Christians look like pikers when you talk 728 00:39:03,790 --> 00:39:07,950 S5: about injustice and yet they promise Utopia. Still a head 729 00:39:07,989 --> 00:39:11,069 S5: scratcher to me. But what I'm suggesting is instead of 730 00:39:11,070 --> 00:39:13,390 S5: allowing the whole thing to focus, I was teaching on 731 00:39:13,390 --> 00:39:15,870 S5: Jehovah Witnesses this past Sunday how to share with the 732 00:39:15,870 --> 00:39:18,549 S5: Jehovah Witness. I share a number of things, but one 733 00:39:18,550 --> 00:39:20,910 S5: thing I'll say is they want to spend time talking 734 00:39:20,910 --> 00:39:23,630 S5: about saluting the flag. Did Jesus die on a cross 735 00:39:23,630 --> 00:39:25,750 S5: or a pole? I say you can talk all day 736 00:39:25,750 --> 00:39:28,310 S5: about that stuff, but it doesn't get them to the 737 00:39:28,350 --> 00:39:32,669 S5: real Jesus. So you direct the conversation and I would 738 00:39:32,670 --> 00:39:35,509 S5: tell this friend, I can appreciate, you know, you're Jewish. 739 00:39:35,750 --> 00:39:39,190 S5: I can appreciate that the Jews were looking for Messiah 740 00:39:39,190 --> 00:39:43,550 S5: to come. Some will say Jesus is Messiah who was promised. 741 00:39:43,550 --> 00:39:46,110 S5: Some will say, I don't think so. He's still coming. 742 00:39:46,110 --> 00:39:48,150 S5: Why don't we have a look at the historical Jesus? 743 00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:49,590 S5: Why don't we have a look at some of the 744 00:39:49,630 --> 00:39:53,069 S5: prophetic passages. They call it messianic prophecy. In other words, 745 00:39:53,070 --> 00:39:54,910 S5: I want to look at that kind of thing. It's 746 00:39:54,910 --> 00:39:58,030 S5: not denying is God going to send people to hell? 747 00:39:59,390 --> 00:40:01,630 S5: Or is there going to be a heaven or a hell? 748 00:40:01,790 --> 00:40:03,390 S5: Is there going to be a good place and a 749 00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:07,710 S5: bad place? That is clearly in both scriptures they're promised. 750 00:40:07,750 --> 00:40:10,149 S5: They're a little bit more defined in the new. But 751 00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:13,629 S5: if someone gets lost in that, I'll say, if you 752 00:40:13,630 --> 00:40:16,950 S5: end up missing Jesus because you heard about a preacher 753 00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:19,830 S5: that treated one of your relatives wrong and you never 754 00:40:19,830 --> 00:40:25,190 S5: looked into Jesus. I'm saying, man, you missed. You missed. 755 00:40:25,790 --> 00:40:28,270 S5: Go to the author of the Faith. I remember when 756 00:40:28,270 --> 00:40:30,790 S5: Josh McDowell said, when I was just a young college kid, 757 00:40:30,790 --> 00:40:33,870 S5: you can take Buddha out of Buddhism. You still have Buddhism. 758 00:40:34,270 --> 00:40:37,270 S5: But he said, if you try taking Jesus out of Christianity, 759 00:40:37,270 --> 00:40:41,350 S5: there's nothing left because it's all built on him. So 760 00:40:41,350 --> 00:40:43,350 S5: if your friend is trying to take an honest look 761 00:40:43,350 --> 00:40:46,150 S5: at Christianity, say, let's look at the person of Christ 762 00:40:46,430 --> 00:40:49,280 S5: who he said he was, what he said he would do. 763 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,680 S5: There will be a lot of things that over the years, 764 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,120 S5: as we walk through, we can define and redefine as 765 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,959 S5: we look at things, but don't allow something that will. 766 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:04,520 S5: I don't understand this. Therefore I'm rejecting Jesus as Savior. 767 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,440 S5: I say, if you reject Jesus as Savior or Messiah 768 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,560 S5: for the for the Jewish person, uh, I would say 769 00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:14,400 S5: have a good understanding of why, instead of allowing something 770 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,200 S5: on the side to so occupy my thinking that I 771 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,799 S5: never get to Jesus. See, when we talk about spiritual warfare, 772 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,040 S5: if I'm a very smart demon and if I go, 773 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,160 S5: I don't want you ever getting to the fact that 774 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,239 S5: Jesus is your true Messiah. If you're Jewish, he is 775 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,720 S5: your Messiah, your Savior. If you're Gentile, uh, you know, 776 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,839 S5: the Christ, the Messiah. Same thing. Just Jew or Gentile. 777 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,560 S5: If I can get you locked up into a look 778 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,240 S5: at the injustice of and then point it to and 779 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,879 S5: look at this and look at that. It doesn't say, 780 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,960 S5: don't look at Jesus. It just keeps me so preoccupied 781 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,880 S5: with everything else. I never get there. And I'm saying 782 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,920 S5: that's a pretty smart way in First Timothy. For the 783 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,280 S5: first couple of verses, it talks about how the demonic 784 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,400 S5: deception is going to become so strong that that there 785 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,080 S5: are going to be even people who are believers going, 786 00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,680 S5: I'm being what in the world is going on? And 787 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,320 S5: it says in the last days I think we're in them. 788 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,040 S5: And I would say deception to me is far more 789 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,040 S5: difficult for me to try and understand if if someone 790 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,719 S5: is just trying to get me mis tracked, but they 791 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,040 S5: achieve the same thing I never get after the main 792 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,480 S5: thing than it is if they walk in with guns 793 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,560 S5: blazing and just say I hate Jesus and run from Jesus. 794 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,799 S5: Wouldn't it be far easier to say, yeah, but how 795 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,000 S5: come the Methodists don't like the Pentecostals and the Catholics 796 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,520 S5: don't like the Protestants? And none of which is always true. 797 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,560 S5: But what I'm saying is, it's just get me distracted. 798 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,000 S5: I think the deception is tougher to deal with than 799 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,920 S5: just the blatant anarchy sometimes, and I think that we're 800 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:56,520 S5: seeing more of it. I today was asked to evaluate, uh, potential, uh, 801 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,320 S5: pastor had sent some stuff and they kept mentioning the Enneagram. 802 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,640 S5: And I said, do you understand? That's occultic. Well, no, 803 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,319 S5: it's like it's like Dick. It's like the disc. It's 804 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,960 S5: like Briggs and Myers. It's like Taylor Johnson. No, it's 805 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,520 S5: roots are demonic. It was made to replace the Holy 806 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,239 S5: Spirit for the believer. Or just give you something other 807 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,080 S5: than Jesus for the unbeliever. How come we've got believers 808 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:25,120 S5: promoting that thing as a tool for understanding truth? It's deception. 809 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:28,719 S1: Wow. Thank you so much, Lola, for the question. I 810 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,799 S1: greatly appreciate it. And you just I'm going to state 811 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,640 S1: the obvious because you just heard it. This is why 812 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,800 S1: I love Doctor Carl Payne. He's unashamed of the gospel 813 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,479 S1: of Jesus Christ. He holds out the word of life. 814 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,320 S1: He holds fast to that which is good. He doesn't 815 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,370 S1: add to or subtract from scripture. He just tell it 816 00:43:45,370 --> 00:43:48,490 S1: like it is. And that goes full circle, by the way, 817 00:43:48,650 --> 00:43:50,410 S1: to what we talked about at the very beginning. One 818 00:43:50,410 --> 00:43:52,770 S1: of the reasons why churches don't talk about spiritual warfare 819 00:43:52,770 --> 00:43:56,570 S1: is because it's an uncomfortable topic for them. Well, there's 820 00:43:56,570 --> 00:43:59,569 S1: an awful lot in Scripture that makes you uncomfortable. Exactly 821 00:43:59,570 --> 00:44:02,770 S1: like Carol was just saying about anagrams. So there you go. 822 00:44:03,010 --> 00:44:05,210 S1: I got a boatload of callers online. Carol, take that 823 00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:07,530 S1: as a cup of encouragement. It's why we keep asking 824 00:44:07,530 --> 00:44:09,890 S1: you back. It's why we keep going with this subject. 825 00:44:09,890 --> 00:44:12,450 S1: And as long as people are asking questions about spiritual 826 00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:15,450 S1: warfare because it is in the word, it needs to 827 00:44:15,450 --> 00:44:18,489 S1: be taught. And far too many churches pulled back from this. 828 00:44:18,489 --> 00:44:20,330 S1: We're just going to lay down the plumb line of 829 00:44:20,330 --> 00:44:23,330 S1: Scripture and measure it against what's being taught out there, 830 00:44:23,370 --> 00:44:26,330 S1: or sadly, not being taught out there. And tell you 831 00:44:26,330 --> 00:44:28,250 S1: what the truth of the word is. So again, in 832 00:44:28,250 --> 00:44:31,170 S1: the meantime, get Doctor Carl Pains book. It's absolutely excellent. 833 00:44:31,210 --> 00:44:33,450 S1: I appreciate your being here so much. Thank you Carol. 834 00:44:33,450 --> 00:44:35,210 S1: Thank you friends. We'll see you next time on In 835 00:44:35,250 --> 00:44:37,210 S1: the Market with Janet Parshall.