1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,559 S1: Monks and money don't seem to go together, but maybe 2 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:15,400 S1: they should. Hi, I'm Rob West. Early Christian monks had 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,160 S1: a biblical approach to possessions that offered freedom from fear 4 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:22,840 S1: and room for generosity. Today, Doctor Shane Annett joins us 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,599 S1: to explore what he calls monk finances and why their 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,600 S1: wisdom matters for believers today. And then it's on to 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:36,120 S1: your calls at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. 8 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,680 S1: This is faith and finance. Live. Biblical wisdom for your 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:49,680 S1: financial decisions. Well, our guest today is my friend, Doctor 10 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,320 S1: Shane Enid. He's the chair of the finance department at 11 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,600 S1: Biola University. And he's a regular contributor here at Faith 12 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,200 S1: and finance. Shane, always great to have you with us. 13 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,410 S2: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's always 14 00:01:00,410 --> 00:01:01,170 S2: a great treat. 15 00:01:01,210 --> 00:01:05,929 S1: Shane, you've written a fascinating article in our Faithful Steward magazine. Financial, 16 00:01:05,970 --> 00:01:09,690 S1: of course, but with a surprising dose of history. And 17 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:13,370 S1: you open it by acknowledging that when people hear monk 18 00:01:13,410 --> 00:01:16,850 S1: and finances in the same sentence, their first reaction is, 19 00:01:17,010 --> 00:01:19,650 S1: I don't think those two go together. Why do you 20 00:01:19,650 --> 00:01:20,450 S1: think that is? 21 00:01:20,970 --> 00:01:24,770 S2: Yeah, and I think that initial thought is grounded in 22 00:01:24,810 --> 00:01:28,649 S2: some history. So, you know, when the Acts church occurred 23 00:01:28,650 --> 00:01:32,970 S2: and the Pentecost and you had this moment of incredible 24 00:01:32,970 --> 00:01:36,570 S2: sharing and generosity of the early church, um, things went 25 00:01:36,569 --> 00:01:40,890 S2: really well. And, uh, the apostles and the church was growing. 26 00:01:40,930 --> 00:01:44,770 S2: And then after about a hundred years, um, there began 27 00:01:44,770 --> 00:01:49,690 S2: to be a waning. And, uh, and the early Christian fathers, 28 00:01:49,730 --> 00:01:53,210 S2: they saw that behavior amongst the Christians as it got 29 00:01:53,210 --> 00:01:55,930 S2: bigger and bigger, was getting a little more lax. And 30 00:01:55,930 --> 00:01:59,910 S2: so there was a reaction and a lot of Christians 31 00:01:59,910 --> 00:02:02,190 S2: who wanted to be spiritual leaders, they actually just kind 32 00:02:02,190 --> 00:02:05,190 S2: of withdrew from the world. And those were kind of 33 00:02:05,230 --> 00:02:10,310 S2: the first monks. And those first monks went alone and 34 00:02:10,310 --> 00:02:14,510 S2: they went into kind of extreme behavior. And it's, uh, 35 00:02:14,630 --> 00:02:17,750 S2: they kind of wanted to be, um, exemplars where they 36 00:02:17,750 --> 00:02:20,550 S2: showed kind of a life of devotion to try and 37 00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:24,950 S2: inspire others towards that early acts, devotion. And it got 38 00:02:24,950 --> 00:02:28,910 S2: pretty extreme. And so they basically said, you know, anything 39 00:02:28,950 --> 00:02:32,669 S2: material is evil. And we the body itself is evil. 40 00:02:32,669 --> 00:02:34,630 S2: It has a demon inside of it. And so we 41 00:02:34,630 --> 00:02:37,950 S2: need to kind of like, uh, through asceticism, which is 42 00:02:37,990 --> 00:02:42,910 S2: like a training, uh, you know, hate our bodies. Self-mortification. And, uh, 43 00:02:42,950 --> 00:02:45,350 S2: and so that money, of course, was something to be 44 00:02:45,350 --> 00:02:49,589 S2: very feared and very hated. And, and really, that moment, though, 45 00:02:49,630 --> 00:02:53,190 S2: changed when, uh, there was a, you know, a few 46 00:02:53,230 --> 00:02:55,910 S2: monks who came and said, you know, that's not actually 47 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,000 S2: God's way. We shouldn't see what God made. Um. The 48 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,320 S2: material world, our bodies, money, all these things, uh, existed. Uh, 49 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,680 S2: possessions before the fall. And and there's a way of 50 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,680 S2: using them for God's glory. And so we had Saint 51 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,280 S2: Anthony and Benedict and a few other monks who kind 52 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,640 S2: of like, uh, changed that paradigm. And so then now, 53 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,919 S2: through their working out of living, they actually came up 54 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:24,920 S2: with really cool ways of thinking about money that we 55 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:25,760 S2: can learn from. 56 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,480 S1: Mm. That's a really helpful history lesson. Uh, Shane, you 57 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:33,320 S1: suggest that part of the disconnect is that we've forgotten 58 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:38,400 S1: how early Christians viewed possessions. So what misconceptions, Shane, do 59 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,240 S1: you think shapes our thinking today? 60 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,600 S2: Yeah. Once, um, the, uh, monks started to kind of 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,200 S2: form into communities and it started to get a little 62 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,680 S2: bit healthier and they started to see, hey, we can't just, 63 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,880 S2: you know, get rid of our bodies like God has 64 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,260 S2: made our body. It's good. God has made possessions. They 65 00:03:56,260 --> 00:03:59,820 S2: started to form. And, you know, one of the earliest 66 00:03:59,820 --> 00:04:05,100 S2: formed communities that actually had possessions was the Panamanian monastery. 67 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:09,060 S2: And they created a rule of living. And this rule 68 00:04:09,060 --> 00:04:13,500 S2: of living was really about moderation and equality. And I 69 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:16,420 S2: think it paired really well with the apostle Paul and 70 00:04:16,420 --> 00:04:18,740 S2: how he was talking to the Corinth church, this kind 71 00:04:18,740 --> 00:04:22,300 S2: of wealthy church that mirrors the American church in many ways. And, 72 00:04:22,740 --> 00:04:25,779 S2: and really what he wanted, what these early monks saw 73 00:04:25,980 --> 00:04:29,940 S2: was that money was necessary for living. But the purpose 74 00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:33,700 S2: in it really should be about meeting the most basic 75 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:36,780 S2: of needs. And then when there's excess that helps meet 76 00:04:36,779 --> 00:04:40,500 S2: the most basic of needs of others. And so money 77 00:04:40,500 --> 00:04:46,700 S2: is more about stewardship towards self-sufficiency that leads towards hospitality. 78 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:50,740 S2: And it isn't about an economic security where we get 79 00:04:50,740 --> 00:04:53,670 S2: to take the role of God and protect ourselves. 80 00:04:53,950 --> 00:04:56,190 S1: Yeah, and I know we're going to unpack that after 81 00:04:56,190 --> 00:04:58,790 S1: the break a bit more. And you say there's a 82 00:04:58,790 --> 00:05:03,029 S1: lot we can learn from monk finances as we reclaim 83 00:05:03,070 --> 00:05:06,430 S1: a biblical view of money that can free us from 84 00:05:06,430 --> 00:05:10,470 S1: much of our modern financial anxiety. She's not here today. 85 00:05:10,510 --> 00:05:13,750 S1: Shane is chair of the finance department at Biola University, 86 00:05:13,750 --> 00:05:16,630 S1: and he's a regular contributor on this program. Back with 87 00:05:16,630 --> 00:05:35,070 S1: more on monk finances after this. Stay with us. Two 88 00:05:35,070 --> 00:05:38,870 S1: words that don't often go together. Monk finances. That's what 89 00:05:38,870 --> 00:05:42,350 S1: we're talking about today with our friend Doctor Shane. Shane 90 00:05:42,350 --> 00:05:45,190 S1: is the chair of the finance department at Biola University. 91 00:05:45,230 --> 00:05:48,229 S1: He's a regular contributor here, and he's got an article 92 00:05:48,230 --> 00:05:51,229 S1: in our latest edition of our Faithful Steward magazine on 93 00:05:51,230 --> 00:05:56,119 S1: this topic called monk finances. And Shane, you're actually right 94 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,280 S1: now in the midst of your sabbatical. I know you 95 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,400 S1: stayed there in your hometown, you're on campus, but you're 96 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,919 S1: studying and you're dedicating really the lion's share of your 97 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,320 S1: sabbatical to studying this topic, right? 98 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,640 S2: Yeah, I think early Christian history, in terms of how 99 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,000 S2: early Christians managed money, particularly in response to what they 100 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,240 S2: saw in acts with the Pentecost and the great sharing. 101 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,720 S2: I just want to flesh that out. I want to 102 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,239 S2: give people an understanding of what the Christians were doing, 103 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,039 S2: what they were thinking, and how it can apply today. 104 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,119 S1: Yeah, well, it's so important and I'm glad you're doing 105 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,520 S1: the deep dive here. We're all going to benefit from it. 106 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,120 S1: And this has been fabulous. Shane, you say we should 107 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:41,160 S1: reclaim a biblical view of money, which frees us from 108 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,799 S1: our modern financial anxiety. And you note that the monks 109 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,680 S1: modeled this beautifully. So what insights did they have that 110 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:49,880 S1: we tend to overlook? 111 00:06:50,540 --> 00:06:53,339 S2: Sure. Yeah. I think one of the greatest things they 112 00:06:53,339 --> 00:06:56,700 S2: did was instead of look at the earth and say, 113 00:06:57,060 --> 00:07:00,700 S2: I want to maximize my consumption, they said, I want 114 00:07:00,740 --> 00:07:03,100 S2: to satisfy it. And so that was this idea of 115 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:07,859 S2: economic sufficiency is and self-sufficiency was a word they used. 116 00:07:07,860 --> 00:07:11,580 S2: And you know, the there's a story about Saint Anthony 117 00:07:11,620 --> 00:07:15,660 S2: where he's considered the father of modern monks. And he, 118 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:18,100 S2: you know, withdrew. He saw what was happening with the 119 00:07:18,100 --> 00:07:22,500 S2: early church, how they were, you know, getting drunk during communion. 120 00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:24,580 S2: And they were not sharing and they were trying to 121 00:07:24,620 --> 00:07:27,380 S2: pay their way to salvation. And he said, enough of this. 122 00:07:27,380 --> 00:07:30,380 S2: So he went and lived in a cave, was fed 123 00:07:30,580 --> 00:07:33,140 S2: by another monk by a rope, you know, where they 124 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:35,420 S2: would lower the food. And he did that for a 125 00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:37,820 S2: few years, and then realized he didn't want to be 126 00:07:37,820 --> 00:07:40,820 S2: a burden on this community to feed him. So he 127 00:07:41,340 --> 00:07:44,500 S2: grew enough of a garden to make some wheat to 128 00:07:44,540 --> 00:07:47,580 S2: feed himself. And then he realized, you know what I 129 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:49,550 S2: would love to be able to share. I'm having people 130 00:07:49,550 --> 00:07:52,950 S2: come in, um, to give them advice because they kind 131 00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:55,510 S2: of were like a, um, a sage of the community. 132 00:07:55,950 --> 00:07:57,870 S2: And I would love to be able to share my food. 133 00:07:57,870 --> 00:08:00,990 S2: And so he then created a vegetable garden. And so 134 00:08:01,350 --> 00:08:05,150 S2: it was this progression that the monks ended up adopting 135 00:08:05,150 --> 00:08:07,950 S2: this idea of, hey, we should have enough to feed ourselves, 136 00:08:07,950 --> 00:08:11,110 S2: but we should also do some hard work, create some 137 00:08:11,110 --> 00:08:14,830 S2: excess in order to be hospitable. And really, they stopped 138 00:08:14,830 --> 00:08:18,310 S2: at the hospitality part, the part where they're satisfying their 139 00:08:18,310 --> 00:08:21,150 S2: needs and the needs of their community. And they didn't 140 00:08:21,150 --> 00:08:24,430 S2: go beyond towards the part of trying to secure their 141 00:08:24,430 --> 00:08:28,190 S2: economic future. And really, they said, when you do that, 142 00:08:28,390 --> 00:08:31,070 S2: you go into the love of money instead of just 143 00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:34,429 S2: the use of money. And they paid attention to the heart. 144 00:08:34,429 --> 00:08:37,190 S2: And they said, if you want security, then you're loving 145 00:08:37,190 --> 00:08:41,230 S2: money and you're taking God's role away. But if you 146 00:08:41,270 --> 00:08:44,110 S2: work hard, you create some excess, and the purpose is 147 00:08:44,110 --> 00:08:47,570 S2: so that you can share, then you're protecting your heart 148 00:08:47,570 --> 00:08:50,890 S2: and you're creating just a basic sufficiency that they said 149 00:08:50,890 --> 00:08:53,490 S2: it was a natural way of living. And to me, 150 00:08:53,490 --> 00:08:56,650 S2: there's a great bondage when we do go into an excess. 151 00:08:56,650 --> 00:09:00,130 S2: And when we just try to maximize, we will always 152 00:09:00,130 --> 00:09:03,650 S2: have unlimited wants and limited means. And it feeds a 153 00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:07,890 S2: kind of dissatisfaction. And there's a great freedom when you 154 00:09:07,890 --> 00:09:11,410 S2: stop and you just simplify and you say, I don't 155 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:14,809 S2: need much and you figure out what that is, that level, 156 00:09:14,809 --> 00:09:17,250 S2: and it's a simple amount of living. 157 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:20,329 S1: Yeah. I want to unpack this just a bit further. 158 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:25,650 S1: This idea of economic sufficiency versus economic security. Why did 159 00:09:25,650 --> 00:09:28,689 S1: the monks see what we call economic security? Not as 160 00:09:28,690 --> 00:09:31,290 S1: the goal, but actually a real spiritual danger? 161 00:09:32,010 --> 00:09:37,410 S2: They saw that wealth is a tempter. Wealth can tempt 162 00:09:37,410 --> 00:09:41,570 S2: us towards thinking that we are okay, that we don't 163 00:09:41,570 --> 00:09:44,250 S2: need God, that we actually can take care of things 164 00:09:44,250 --> 00:09:46,620 S2: on our own. In my mind, one of the great 165 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:50,660 S2: virtues of the monk culture and monk finances is that 166 00:09:50,660 --> 00:09:54,740 S2: they treated wealth as very dangerous. And and I it 167 00:09:54,740 --> 00:09:56,700 S2: is a danger to our heart. It's always going to 168 00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:59,980 S2: whisper into our ears that that we're okay because of 169 00:09:59,980 --> 00:10:04,020 S2: our bank account. And, and so I really appreciate that 170 00:10:04,020 --> 00:10:07,860 S2: they created, uh, rules around living. And there was a 171 00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:12,179 S2: Benedictine rule. There was a Pachomius rule. And, um, and 172 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:16,100 S2: they just tried to really simplify what was needed. And 173 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:19,460 S2: they shared with each other. And through that, they protected 174 00:10:19,460 --> 00:10:22,500 S2: themselves from the love of money. And it's a lot 175 00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:27,380 S2: like the marriage covenant protects us from, you know, our 176 00:10:27,580 --> 00:10:30,820 S2: unending sexual appetites. In the same way, when you have 177 00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:33,420 S2: rules of living with money, it protects us from an 178 00:10:33,420 --> 00:10:37,340 S2: unending appetite for possessions and things and consumption. 179 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:40,380 S1: Yeah. That's helpful. So we've covered some of these big 180 00:10:40,380 --> 00:10:45,590 S1: ideas of monk finances, economic sufficiency versus economic security. We've 181 00:10:45,630 --> 00:10:50,709 S1: talked about having enough to be hospitable because hospitality was central. 182 00:10:50,990 --> 00:10:53,910 S1: You move into a third idea in the article An 183 00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:59,110 S1: Economy of Excess. That phrase sounds counterintuitive at first. So 184 00:10:59,110 --> 00:11:00,750 S1: what were the monks getting at there? 185 00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:03,990 S2: Yeah, I love this was one of my favorite parts 186 00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:07,150 S2: of studying the monasteries. And the monk living was this 187 00:11:07,150 --> 00:11:12,270 S2: idea that every time they were given food or any 188 00:11:12,270 --> 00:11:16,190 S2: type of resource, um, they've been trained to have a 189 00:11:16,190 --> 00:11:19,270 S2: culture where they would never consume all of it. So 190 00:11:19,309 --> 00:11:22,470 S2: they would say, you know, if they were given, uh, 191 00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:25,670 S2: I don't know, a piece of bread, they would consume 90% 192 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:29,110 S2: of it. And, uh, and so anything that that they 193 00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:32,030 S2: were given, they would consume, you know, a majority of it. 194 00:11:32,030 --> 00:11:33,950 S2: But then there would always be a little bit extra 195 00:11:33,950 --> 00:11:36,069 S2: that they would put in the center of the table 196 00:11:36,429 --> 00:11:40,750 S2: and imagine a monastery with 50 monks, all not consuming 197 00:11:40,750 --> 00:11:44,250 S2: the entire amount. It meant that the tables were overflowing 198 00:11:44,290 --> 00:11:49,290 S2: with with extra and and so this idea of economy 199 00:11:49,290 --> 00:11:52,089 S2: of excess was that when you don't consume to the 200 00:11:52,090 --> 00:11:56,650 S2: very limit, then you actually create an incredible amount of margin. 201 00:11:57,010 --> 00:12:01,410 S2: And it really is counterintuitive to our kind of American brain, 202 00:12:01,410 --> 00:12:04,170 S2: because we always want to consume extra, extra, more and 203 00:12:04,170 --> 00:12:07,609 S2: more and more. But when you actually create a boundary 204 00:12:08,250 --> 00:12:11,650 S2: and this is the way God's economy works in the 205 00:12:11,650 --> 00:12:16,329 S2: Old Testament, in the Torah, you know, the anti gleaning laws, um, 206 00:12:16,450 --> 00:12:19,690 S2: he's like, hey, you have these fields. Don't, don't glean 207 00:12:19,690 --> 00:12:22,250 S2: up until the edges. Like don't harvest to the edges. 208 00:12:22,250 --> 00:12:25,330 S2: Let the edges be for the poor. And it just 209 00:12:25,370 --> 00:12:29,050 S2: it's like a brilliant economic idea because it creates this 210 00:12:29,090 --> 00:12:32,090 S2: this excess and everyone is pretty satisfied. I mean, when 211 00:12:32,090 --> 00:12:35,490 S2: you consume, let's say, 90 to 95% of what's given 212 00:12:35,490 --> 00:12:38,730 S2: to you, you know, that's that's reasonable. And then all 213 00:12:38,730 --> 00:12:41,170 S2: of a sudden there's if everyone does that, then there's 214 00:12:41,170 --> 00:12:44,660 S2: all this extra. And so if you're hungry and there 215 00:12:44,660 --> 00:12:47,140 S2: just happens to be extra, then you know you can 216 00:12:47,420 --> 00:12:50,860 S2: eat to your heart's content. So, uh, so yeah. So 217 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:54,339 S2: this to me was probably the, the most brilliant in 218 00:12:54,380 --> 00:12:58,420 S2: terms of just economic uh, systems was, was hey, don't 219 00:12:58,420 --> 00:13:01,900 S2: consume to the limit, consume a little bit less, and 220 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:06,020 S2: then you create the Bountiful tables that are overflowing for others. 221 00:13:06,380 --> 00:13:09,020 S1: Shane, this is so good. We've got just about 30s left. 222 00:13:09,059 --> 00:13:10,579 S1: Tie a bow on this for us. What would you 223 00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:12,300 S1: leave our listeners with today? 224 00:13:13,340 --> 00:13:16,740 S2: You know, I'd say fear wealth the way the monks did. Uh, 225 00:13:16,740 --> 00:13:19,780 S2: so that your heart isn't turned. Don't consume everything given 226 00:13:19,780 --> 00:13:22,059 S2: to you to create some margin. And don't go at 227 00:13:22,059 --> 00:13:25,459 S2: it alone. Join a community of people to have accountability 228 00:13:25,460 --> 00:13:28,140 S2: and to do financial living together. 229 00:13:28,540 --> 00:13:32,500 S1: Incredible folks. The monks didn't reject money. They reoriented it. 230 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:35,420 S1: They used it to depend on God, welcome others and 231 00:13:35,420 --> 00:13:38,620 S1: bless the poor. What a powerful message for us today, Shane. 232 00:13:38,620 --> 00:13:39,540 S1: Thanks for being here. 233 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:41,320 S2: Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. 234 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:44,560 S1: That's doctor Shane Enid, chair of the finance department at 235 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,240 S1: Biola University. You can read his article, Monk Finances in 236 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,840 S1: the latest issue of Faithful Steward, our quarterly magazine sent 237 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,240 S1: to faithful partners who support the mission to receive your 238 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:02,440 S1: copy and enjoy additional partner benefits, visit faithfully. That's faithful. 239 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,480 S1: Partners are a key part of funding this ministry, so 240 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,880 S1: we can reach more people with this message of wise 241 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:17,960 S1: biblical stewardship. All right. Your calls are next. 800 525 7000. 242 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,600 S1: I'm Rob West, and we'll be right back. Stay with us. 243 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,480 S3: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 244 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,010 S3: professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only. 245 00:14:40,170 --> 00:14:43,570 S3: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 246 00:14:43,570 --> 00:14:47,970 S3: a financial, medical, legal or other professional who understands your 247 00:14:47,970 --> 00:14:49,490 S3: specific situation. 248 00:14:57,650 --> 00:14:59,410 S1: Well, I'm so thankful to have you with us today 249 00:14:59,410 --> 00:15:02,970 S1: on Faith and Finance Live. We're broadcasting live from the 250 00:15:02,970 --> 00:15:08,210 S1: National Religious Broadcasters Convention. That's right. We're in beautiful Nashville, Tennessee, 251 00:15:08,250 --> 00:15:12,330 S1: at the Gaylord Opryland here with media professionals from all 252 00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:16,490 S1: over the globe gathering together to learn and grow and connect. 253 00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:19,770 S1: And I'm privileged to be here with the Moody Radio 254 00:15:19,810 --> 00:15:23,330 S1: Moody global media team, uh, in a number of sessions 255 00:15:23,330 --> 00:15:27,530 S1: and meetings, but also broadcasting from this location all week. 256 00:15:27,530 --> 00:15:30,690 S1: Still taking your calls and questions, but delighted to be 257 00:15:30,690 --> 00:15:34,050 S1: here and still be able to come to you each afternoon. 258 00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:36,570 S1: Speaking of those questions, if you've got a question today, 259 00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:38,830 S1: you want to get in on the conversation. We'd love 260 00:15:38,830 --> 00:15:43,150 S1: to hear from you. Just call 800 525 7000. We've 261 00:15:43,150 --> 00:15:45,310 S1: got some lines open for you. That number again is 262 00:15:45,310 --> 00:15:49,910 S1: 800 525 7000. You can call right now. You know, 263 00:15:49,950 --> 00:15:52,550 S1: I love where we started today with my friend Doctor 264 00:15:52,550 --> 00:15:57,030 S1: Shane innit. What a beautiful picture to manage God's money 265 00:15:57,030 --> 00:16:02,190 S1: in community, being challenged and held accountable and journeying with 266 00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:06,710 S1: others who share your heart to become more Christ like. 267 00:16:06,750 --> 00:16:10,150 S1: To manage God's money in a way that's God honoring, 268 00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:14,190 S1: but also not to, uh, take 100% of what we 269 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:17,110 S1: get and use it up. This idea of living with 270 00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:20,910 S1: margin is one of the central ideas in Scripture. Not 271 00:16:20,910 --> 00:16:23,350 S1: only so we can live within our means because there's 272 00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:26,310 S1: less pressure, and it just puts us in a position 273 00:16:26,310 --> 00:16:30,550 S1: where we're not finding ourselves constantly tripping over the next expense. 274 00:16:30,550 --> 00:16:34,990 S1: That's unexpected, but it also allows for generosity. Yes, we 275 00:16:34,990 --> 00:16:39,880 S1: want intentional giving. We want to build giving into our plan, 276 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,040 S1: but we also want to have margin for the Holy 277 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,440 S1: Spirit to lead. You know, those opportunities to give spontaneously 278 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,640 S1: to someone on our path. That doesn't happen when you're 279 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:52,400 S1: living right up to the edge. And so this idea 280 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,720 S1: that we would live and operate our lives with margin, 281 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,640 S1: that applies to our schedules, that also applies to our 282 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,400 S1: financial resources. I hope you took something away today from 283 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,119 S1: Doctor Annette. I know I did. What an encouragement. All right, 284 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,280 S1: let's get into your questions. Today. We're going to begin 285 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,840 S1: in Alabama. Brad, we appreciate your call. Go ahead. 286 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,040 S4: Uh, good afternoon, Rob, thanks for taking my call. 287 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:16,760 S1: Of course. 288 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,240 S4: My wife and I are retired, and we're living basically 289 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:28,720 S4: paycheck to paycheck. Yeah, but God has. Blessed us with 290 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,720 S4: a nest egg, and we want to use that for 291 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,970 S4: God's glory. Wow. So we want we want to be 292 00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:39,570 S4: a good steward of God's money. So my question is, 293 00:17:39,570 --> 00:17:42,490 S4: now that we've retired and have built a nest egg, 294 00:17:42,890 --> 00:17:45,570 S4: do we need to continue to keep paying 1% to 295 00:17:45,609 --> 00:17:49,530 S4: advisor to manage our Roth and IRA accounts? Or is 296 00:17:49,530 --> 00:17:53,490 S4: this something we could do ourselves? Because in ten years 297 00:17:53,490 --> 00:17:56,530 S4: it may be 100 G's that we've paid some guy 298 00:17:56,570 --> 00:17:59,370 S4: that that we necessarily need to do that. 299 00:17:59,690 --> 00:18:03,530 S1: Yes. Well, first of all, I so appreciate this question, 300 00:18:03,530 --> 00:18:07,850 S1: and I appreciate your obvious heart's desire to be found 301 00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:10,490 S1: faithful in honoring the Lord with what he has entrusted 302 00:18:10,490 --> 00:18:13,250 S1: to you. That's apparent in your voice and in your 303 00:18:13,250 --> 00:18:17,810 S1: passion and your desire to be found faithful. And you know, 304 00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:19,770 S1: that's at the end of the day, what you and 305 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:22,090 S1: I have been called to do. With what? What passes 306 00:18:22,090 --> 00:18:25,650 S1: through our hands. Can we say, God, I've been faithful 307 00:18:25,650 --> 00:18:29,290 S1: to steward what you've entrusted to me, however little or much, 308 00:18:29,290 --> 00:18:33,030 S1: for your glory and for your purposes. so I can 309 00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:35,669 S1: stand before you one day and give an account and hear, 310 00:18:35,670 --> 00:18:38,710 S1: well done, good and faithful servant. You know, you ask 311 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:42,389 S1: a great question with regard to the role of professional 312 00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:47,270 S1: advice and not only advice, but management of these resources. 313 00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:50,750 S1: And I think, you know, it's really not a question 314 00:18:50,750 --> 00:18:55,350 S1: about the 1%. It's a value question. What are you 315 00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:58,910 S1: actually getting for that 1%? And what I would say 316 00:18:58,910 --> 00:19:02,629 S1: to you is that an advisor who's serving you well 317 00:19:02,630 --> 00:19:06,550 S1: is doing far more than picking the investments for a retiree, 318 00:19:06,550 --> 00:19:10,030 S1: that would typically include retirement income planning, how much to 319 00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:15,190 S1: withdraw and when tax strategy across those tax deferred and 320 00:19:15,190 --> 00:19:20,670 S1: tax free retirement plans required minimum distribution planning, risk management 321 00:19:20,670 --> 00:19:25,469 S1: and allocation adjustments. Even somebody to journey alongside you during 322 00:19:25,470 --> 00:19:29,270 S1: periods of market volatility, which come we haven't experienced many 323 00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:32,560 S1: of those lately, but they do come because our economy 324 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,359 S1: and our markets work in cycles and then estate and 325 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,400 S1: legacy coordination, even helping to ask the right questions with 326 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,600 S1: regard to challenging you on is the next steward not 327 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,680 S1: only chosen but prepared? How much giving to do? How 328 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,280 S1: much is enough with regard to your accumulation? Uh, and 329 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,280 S1: how much could you lean into the opportunity to even 330 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,240 S1: put more into circulation in God's economy? Now, there's also 331 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,040 S1: this other piece of just the actual investment selections, because 332 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:06,880 S1: you've worked a lifetime. God has clearly provided for you faithfully. 333 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,040 S1: You've done your part. It sounds like, in living modestly 334 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,840 S1: and and growing that nest egg to what you're now 335 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,240 S1: living off of today, knowing God is ultimately your provider, 336 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,760 S1: not these resources. And yet you want to manage them faithfully, 337 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,400 S1: like we see in the parable of the talents in 338 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,520 S1: God's Word, that we trust the master enough in his 339 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,080 S1: provision to say, I'm going to put this to work. 340 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,419 S1: I'm not going to bury it. I'm going to invest 341 00:20:31,420 --> 00:20:33,620 S1: it because I know God is my provider and he 342 00:20:33,619 --> 00:20:37,380 S1: can be trusted. And part of faithful stewardship is the 343 00:20:37,380 --> 00:20:41,820 S1: appropriate investment and management of these resources to grow it. 344 00:20:42,140 --> 00:20:51,900 S1: But again, keeping our trust not in the portfolio. And 345 00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:55,020 S1: your whole working life building this nest egg and then 346 00:20:55,020 --> 00:20:58,899 S1: put it on autopilot, or having to be responsible to 347 00:20:58,940 --> 00:21:02,620 S1: pick those investments. Which dividend paying stocks do I choose 348 00:21:02,619 --> 00:21:06,060 S1: or mutual funds? What's the right allocation? Should I have 349 00:21:06,060 --> 00:21:09,140 S1: some gold? Should it be all fixed income or should 350 00:21:09,180 --> 00:21:12,260 S1: there be a growth component? I mean, these are questions 351 00:21:12,260 --> 00:21:14,739 S1: that I think are very appropriate. And it's where a 352 00:21:14,740 --> 00:21:19,859 S1: professional advisor, even one earning 1% a year, can be 353 00:21:19,859 --> 00:21:23,219 S1: far more valuable than the actual cost that you're paying. 354 00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:27,180 S1: So bottom line, I would say yes, for the average person. 355 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:29,790 S1: Is it a lot of money? It is, especially when 356 00:21:29,790 --> 00:21:32,389 S1: you total it up over the the total of your 357 00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:35,909 S1: your retirement years. But I think it's worth it every 358 00:21:35,910 --> 00:21:38,590 S1: step of the way. Now I want to hear from you. 359 00:21:38,590 --> 00:21:43,110 S1: To hear. Are there any other questions you're asking? You know, 360 00:21:43,150 --> 00:21:45,230 S1: is there anything you would want to follow up on that? 361 00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:47,669 S1: I've said, unfortunately, I'm up against a break, so I'm 362 00:21:47,670 --> 00:21:49,710 S1: going to ask you to stay right there. And then 363 00:21:49,710 --> 00:21:51,550 S1: when we come back on the other side, we'll talk 364 00:21:51,550 --> 00:21:53,990 S1: a bit more. This is faith and finance live. Stay 365 00:21:53,990 --> 00:22:04,869 S1: with us. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and 366 00:22:04,869 --> 00:22:07,470 S1: Finance Live. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and 367 00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:09,869 S1: questions today. Nearly all the lines full. But we do 368 00:22:09,869 --> 00:22:12,630 S1: have room for at least 1 or 2 additional questions 369 00:22:12,630 --> 00:22:16,590 S1: at the moment. 800 525 7000. Now, before the break, 370 00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:19,070 S1: we were talking to Brad in Alabama. He and his 371 00:22:19,070 --> 00:22:21,190 S1: wife are retired. They have a nest egg. The Lord 372 00:22:21,190 --> 00:22:24,149 S1: has been very faithful to them, and they're wanting to 373 00:22:24,190 --> 00:22:27,520 S1: make sure that it's appropriate to still continue to pay 374 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,760 S1: an advisor. They're doing the math on 1% a year 375 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,400 S1: based on the assets under management. It's a lot of money. 376 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,600 S1: It will be quite a bit more than that when 377 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,800 S1: you total it up over the remaining years that they 378 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,480 S1: have before. The Lord calls them home. And they're just wondering, 379 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,960 S1: is that right to pay that or should they be 380 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,280 S1: doing it themselves? Brad, I shared a few thoughts on that, 381 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,680 S1: but give me your follow up thoughts and questions. 382 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,720 S4: I think you've done a great job. The real crucial 383 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,960 S4: question begins where to allocate the money to when you 384 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,600 S4: start giving away. We were going to do those things 385 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,640 S4: are called qcds and start giving money away that way. 386 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,720 S4: And I think there's a guy in Nashville there named 387 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,080 S4: Ron Boy that's supposed to be pretty good about researching ministries. 388 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,560 S4: I kind of return on investment, but I won't. Christian 389 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,840 S4: salvations return on investment. Not necessarily money. Yes, sir. So 390 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,480 S4: that's really what we're struggling to find to do. You know, 391 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,080 S4: now that we've reached a certain level, we teach a 392 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:28,060 S4: basic class. I call it God or money. Choose wisely 101. 393 00:23:28,540 --> 00:23:30,740 S4: So the whole thing we do is paper and pencil. 394 00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:33,340 S4: Choose people to make a budget, get out of debt 395 00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:37,020 S4: and create a surplus and let God guide you with 396 00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:39,460 S4: that money. With what to do. Whole idea is build a. 397 00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:41,899 S4: If we do grow a the goose that lays the 398 00:23:41,940 --> 00:23:44,700 S4: golden egg, take that money and deliberately put it where 399 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:45,939 S4: God wants it to go. 400 00:23:47,220 --> 00:23:49,860 S1: Wow, I love that. Do you teach that at your church, Brad? 401 00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:53,620 S4: Yes. In any kind of a Christian organization, anywhere, there's 402 00:23:53,660 --> 00:23:56,220 S4: a life house and college and stuff. We teach classes 403 00:23:56,220 --> 00:23:59,540 S4: just mainly to Christian people that's hungry for the word, 404 00:23:59,580 --> 00:24:00,060 S4: you know. 405 00:24:00,260 --> 00:24:02,980 S1: Yes, sir. Well, I love so much of what you're 406 00:24:02,980 --> 00:24:06,420 S1: saying here because, number one, we need not only financial 407 00:24:06,420 --> 00:24:10,699 S1: literacy and education, but we also need a biblical worldview 408 00:24:10,980 --> 00:24:13,540 S1: of managing God's money. That's clearly what you're doing as 409 00:24:13,540 --> 00:24:16,540 S1: you're teaching this class. Uh, I love that you're thinking 410 00:24:16,540 --> 00:24:18,740 S1: about how can we get more of what God has 411 00:24:18,740 --> 00:24:23,060 S1: entrusted to us into God's kingdom? Now, remember Ron Blue 412 00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:25,950 S1: and his book Splitting Heirs said, do your giving while 413 00:24:25,950 --> 00:24:28,389 S1: you're living, so you're knowing where it's going. And I 414 00:24:28,390 --> 00:24:30,429 S1: think that's good advice. We don't want to wait and 415 00:24:30,430 --> 00:24:32,550 S1: just give it all away at death. We want to 416 00:24:32,590 --> 00:24:34,990 S1: get as much as we can into God's kingdom now. 417 00:24:34,990 --> 00:24:37,870 S1: And so being able to answer that question, how much 418 00:24:37,869 --> 00:24:40,869 S1: is enough? And what is my financial finish line allows 419 00:24:40,869 --> 00:24:44,870 S1: you to then have confidence in getting that into the kingdom. Um, 420 00:24:45,070 --> 00:24:47,830 S1: you mentioned Ron Blue and his, uh, the firm that 421 00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:50,030 S1: he founded, Blue Trust. I know they have an office 422 00:24:50,030 --> 00:24:52,389 S1: in Alabama. That would be a wonderful place for you 423 00:24:52,390 --> 00:24:54,950 S1: to go, for them to come alongside you and help 424 00:24:54,950 --> 00:24:59,389 S1: you think about giving wisely, which absolutely will involve qualified 425 00:24:59,390 --> 00:25:03,629 S1: charitable distributions. Uh, now that you're 70.5 or older, because 426 00:25:03,630 --> 00:25:06,710 S1: that's the only way you'll get that money out of those, uh, 427 00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:10,590 S1: traditional IRAs without ever paying any tax, which means more 428 00:25:10,590 --> 00:25:13,950 S1: money into God's kingdom. So I think bottom line is, 429 00:25:13,950 --> 00:25:16,190 S1: I love what you're doing. Keep up the good work. 430 00:25:16,190 --> 00:25:18,150 S1: And I think at the end of the day, you 431 00:25:18,190 --> 00:25:21,630 S1: continuing to pay this fee is very appropriate so long 432 00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:24,490 S1: as you have the right advisor that can encourage you 433 00:25:24,490 --> 00:25:27,530 S1: and provide you wise counsel and investment management along the 434 00:25:27,530 --> 00:25:29,330 S1: lines of everything we've just talked about. 435 00:25:30,450 --> 00:25:32,650 S4: Yes, I think you're right. I didn't know they could 436 00:25:33,090 --> 00:25:35,609 S4: instruct us on all those different areas. If you're talking 437 00:25:35,609 --> 00:25:36,650 S4: about a CFP. 438 00:25:37,450 --> 00:25:40,530 S1: Uh, yeah, likely be a CFP, but also a k, 439 00:25:40,570 --> 00:25:43,370 S1: a certified Kingdom advisor. And if you want our team 440 00:25:43,369 --> 00:25:46,929 S1: to help you research the Certified Kingdom advisors there in 441 00:25:46,930 --> 00:25:49,650 S1: your area, I'd be happy to help them do that offline. 442 00:25:50,130 --> 00:25:51,730 S4: Yes, sir. That'd be great. Thank you. 443 00:25:51,770 --> 00:25:53,609 S1: All right. Very good. Stay on the line. The team 444 00:25:53,609 --> 00:25:56,010 S1: will get your information, and we'll get somebody to help 445 00:25:56,010 --> 00:25:58,370 S1: you do that search and give you some names and numbers. 446 00:25:58,410 --> 00:26:00,490 S1: Lord bless you, my friend. Thanks for being on the 447 00:26:00,490 --> 00:26:03,450 S1: program today. Uh, let's go to Florida. Richard. Go ahead. 448 00:26:04,810 --> 00:26:07,090 S5: Hey, Rob, thank you for the outstanding job you do. 449 00:26:07,130 --> 00:26:10,650 S5: And my prayers for, uh, for Brad, the previous caller. 450 00:26:10,930 --> 00:26:14,250 S5: So my question is pretty simple. Um, sure. Um, I 451 00:26:14,250 --> 00:26:17,570 S5: have a car loan that's $17,000 four years left on it. 452 00:26:17,609 --> 00:26:20,820 S5: It's 6% interest. And I also have a money market 453 00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:25,300 S5: account that has $50,000, and I'm getting 3% interest on that. 454 00:26:25,580 --> 00:26:27,460 S5: So what would the wise thing be? Do I pay 455 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:30,699 S5: off the car at the high interest rate to eliminate that? 456 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:33,260 S5: I don't like paying interest, but I finance the car 457 00:26:33,780 --> 00:26:35,500 S5: and I just don't know whether I should take that 458 00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:37,100 S5: money out of the money market, pay off the car, 459 00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:40,700 S5: and then I don't have that interest from the car. Yeah, 460 00:26:40,700 --> 00:26:41,820 S5: it would be best for that. 461 00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:45,220 S1: Yeah. So let's walk through this because it's about cash 462 00:26:45,220 --> 00:26:48,580 S1: flow and peace of mind. And it's also about interest 463 00:26:48,580 --> 00:26:51,540 S1: and just being able to minimize any interest that you're paying. 464 00:26:51,540 --> 00:26:53,900 S1: So the math side, the pure numbers right now you're 465 00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:57,180 S1: paying 6% on the car loan, 3% in the money market. 466 00:26:57,180 --> 00:27:01,619 S1: That means you're effectively losing 3% by keeping the loan 467 00:27:01,619 --> 00:27:05,219 S1: while holding the cash. So from a strictly financial standpoint, 468 00:27:05,220 --> 00:27:08,820 S1: paying off that 6% debt with money earning 3% is 469 00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:13,540 S1: a positive move move. You're getting a guaranteed 6% return 470 00:27:13,540 --> 00:27:17,420 S1: by eliminating that interest, and there's no market risk involved. 471 00:27:17,820 --> 00:27:21,070 S1: But you, of course, don't want to drain your safety cushion. 472 00:27:21,350 --> 00:27:23,550 S1: So a lot of that has to do with what 473 00:27:23,550 --> 00:27:29,229 S1: happens to your emergency reserves after. If you've got, you know, 55, 474 00:27:29,270 --> 00:27:31,870 S1: 50,000 in the money market and after the payoff, that 475 00:27:31,869 --> 00:27:35,830 S1: will be 33. Does that still cover, let's say, six 476 00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:39,750 S1: months worth of expenses? Uh, if you're close to retirement, 477 00:27:39,790 --> 00:27:43,030 S1: you know, maybe even somewhere upwards of 12 months. Do 478 00:27:43,030 --> 00:27:47,310 S1: you have any large expenses coming soon? Medical travel, home repairs? 479 00:27:47,670 --> 00:27:51,189 S1: If that remaining balance still leaves you comfortable, then the 480 00:27:51,230 --> 00:27:55,470 S1: payoff makes more sense. So I think it's balancing, you know, 481 00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:59,590 S1: the the stewardship side and the the dollars and cents 482 00:27:59,750 --> 00:28:02,909 S1: with the liquidity and the flexibility that you want to 483 00:28:02,910 --> 00:28:04,830 S1: maintain at the end of the day. 484 00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:09,270 S5: Okay. Yeah. Understand I have other accounts. So that's not 485 00:28:09,270 --> 00:28:12,790 S5: all that I have. I have two other checking accounts, 486 00:28:12,790 --> 00:28:16,190 S5: a savings account and a another money market account with 487 00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:20,810 S5: another company. So I've got about 36,000 in other accounts. 488 00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:23,570 S5: So I'm pretty good. And my monthly income right now 489 00:28:24,050 --> 00:28:27,290 S5: is I'm very blessed. I can that's all I can 490 00:28:27,290 --> 00:28:31,090 S5: tell you. And I, I look for, for companies to 491 00:28:31,130 --> 00:28:33,930 S5: or organizations to give to. One of them that I'm 492 00:28:33,930 --> 00:28:36,770 S5: involved with for the past two years is building churches 493 00:28:36,770 --> 00:28:39,930 S5: throughout the world. And I'm on my fourth church right now. 494 00:28:40,570 --> 00:28:44,370 S1: Incredible, amazing. So are you are you working through a 495 00:28:44,370 --> 00:28:45,610 S1: ministry to do that? 496 00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:47,690 S5: Yes. Yeah. 497 00:28:48,290 --> 00:28:50,010 S1: Awesome. That is amazing. 498 00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:51,730 S5: Yeah, it's very good, right? 499 00:28:51,850 --> 00:28:52,930 S1: Oh, incredible. 500 00:28:52,970 --> 00:28:55,370 S5: My own church. Yeah, plus my own church. And, you know, 501 00:28:55,410 --> 00:28:58,130 S5: there's some other great causes out there. I mean, Saint Jude, 502 00:28:58,130 --> 00:29:01,050 S5: I think has been a great cause that I've supported 503 00:29:01,050 --> 00:29:04,050 S5: for several years now, so. Yeah. Yes, sir. I think 504 00:29:04,090 --> 00:29:06,090 S5: you'd like, like Brad was mentioning. You got to you 505 00:29:06,130 --> 00:29:08,770 S5: got to vet these, these places to make sure that it's, 506 00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:11,729 S5: you know, a sound organization before you start giving your, 507 00:29:11,730 --> 00:29:12,330 S5: your money. 508 00:29:13,170 --> 00:29:16,060 S1: Yeah, that's exactly right. I think stewardship, uh, you know, 509 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:18,780 S1: so often we give very careful attention to how we're 510 00:29:18,780 --> 00:29:22,420 S1: investing God's money. And we're looking at all kinds of research, 511 00:29:22,420 --> 00:29:25,940 S1: and we're getting reports and we're evaluating the the return 512 00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:29,459 S1: on investment, the ROI. And yet, in the same breath, 513 00:29:29,460 --> 00:29:31,980 S1: we might give money away and never ask any questions 514 00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:34,100 S1: about how is it being used and how much of 515 00:29:34,100 --> 00:29:38,020 S1: it's actually getting to the ministry projects on the other end. 516 00:29:38,260 --> 00:29:40,620 S1: I think we need to give the same, if not more, 517 00:29:40,660 --> 00:29:43,540 S1: level of scrutiny to the giving that we're doing. And 518 00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:45,500 S1: I think you're highlighting a great idea here. 519 00:29:46,460 --> 00:29:48,500 S5: Right. Yeah. And I took it seriously. The last book 520 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:50,780 S5: of the Old Testament, I think, is the only place 521 00:29:50,780 --> 00:29:52,780 S5: in the Bible where it says to to put God 522 00:29:52,780 --> 00:29:54,780 S5: to the test, you know, as far as you're giving. 523 00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:58,260 S5: And I'm telling you what, it works. He's amazing. He's 524 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:00,140 S5: absolutely amazing. He loves us so much. 525 00:30:00,660 --> 00:30:03,100 S1: Yes, he sure does. Crank it through your calculator. It 526 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:05,700 S1: may not make sense on paper. And yet in in 527 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:08,940 S1: God's math it does. And, uh, watch him open the 528 00:30:08,940 --> 00:30:11,460 S1: windows of heaven. It's not a cosmic vending machine we 529 00:30:11,460 --> 00:30:13,860 S1: don't give to get. But we do know that in 530 00:30:13,860 --> 00:30:17,160 S1: God's economy there's all kinds of blessing, and that certainly 531 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,560 S1: includes the fact that we're permanently linked to that money 532 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,800 S1: with regard to eternity. Uh, we don't fully understand how 533 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,720 S1: that works, but we know that there are eternal rewards. So, listen, 534 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,720 S1: I appreciate your call today, Richard. What an encouragement for 535 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,280 S1: our folks. And, uh, thanks for being a part of 536 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,680 S1: the program. Lord bless you. Well, folks, uh, we're going 537 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,320 S1: to take a break when we come back. More of 538 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,040 S1: your questions today. The lines stacked up. I'm so encouraged 539 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,360 S1: by just, uh, the people that call this program, they're amazing. 540 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:48,640 S1: I so appreciate your desire each day to be found faithful. 541 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,680 S1: The fact that our team at Faith VI could play 542 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,000 S1: a very small part in. That means a lot. Thanks 543 00:30:54,000 --> 00:31:01,760 S1: for being here today. We'll be right back. Hey, thanks 544 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,200 S1: for joining us today on Faith and Finance live on 545 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,720 S1: Moody Radio. I'm Rob West, broadcasting from NRB. That's the 546 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:12,930 S1: National Religious Broadcasters convention. We're in Nashville, Tennessee this week 547 00:31:12,970 --> 00:31:16,090 S1: and still bringing you the broadcast each day. We'll head 548 00:31:16,090 --> 00:31:17,570 S1: back to the phones here in a moment. But first, 549 00:31:17,570 --> 00:31:20,450 S1: Bob Dole is here. Bob is our, uh, our own 550 00:31:20,450 --> 00:31:23,690 S1: resident chief investment officer, if you will. He's CIO at 551 00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:27,570 S1: Crossmark global, a leader in faith based investing. And, Bob, 552 00:31:27,570 --> 00:31:30,610 S1: as we kick off a new week, a new trading week, 553 00:31:30,650 --> 00:31:33,650 S1: the market mixed flat, I guess you could call it. 554 00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:35,210 S1: What's moving the markets this week? 555 00:31:35,650 --> 00:31:38,450 S6: It is flat. I would observe. Rob, you probably know this, 556 00:31:38,450 --> 00:31:41,690 S6: that the market is about the same place as it 557 00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:46,490 S6: was four months ago. It's moved up or down about 3% 558 00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:49,290 S6: during that whole time frame. But underneath the surface, as 559 00:31:49,290 --> 00:31:53,610 S6: you know, radical. I don't think that's overstating it. Um, 560 00:31:54,130 --> 00:32:00,170 S6: rotation uh, growth and value. The International stocks Mag seven 561 00:32:00,170 --> 00:32:04,170 S6: given up. Um, all the worries about, uh, the lack 562 00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:09,410 S6: of return potential on all that spending and putting companies 563 00:32:09,410 --> 00:32:12,700 S6: in trouble. I mean, it's been a wild ride. Earnings 564 00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,060 S6: are still important and they're still coming in fast and 565 00:32:15,060 --> 00:32:18,260 S6: furious for the quarter. But not a lot of people 566 00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:20,940 S6: paying attention to them because all these other things Rob. 567 00:32:21,580 --> 00:32:25,300 S1: Yeah, no doubt about it. Bob. Obviously CPI right front 568 00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:27,220 S1: and center. And that's going to have a lot to 569 00:32:27,220 --> 00:32:30,500 S1: do with whether we see the fed continue to ease 570 00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:33,220 S1: as this year progresses. What do you think on both fronts. 571 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:39,660 S6: So the CPI reported last week was um uh, as 572 00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:44,940 S6: expected maybe a little better than expected, better than feared, certainly. Um, 573 00:32:45,180 --> 00:32:47,860 S6: and inflation for the first time in a long time, 574 00:32:47,860 --> 00:32:52,580 S6: at 2.4%, trailing 12 months, rounds down to two rather 575 00:32:52,580 --> 00:32:54,620 S6: than up to three. And that has a lot of 576 00:32:54,620 --> 00:32:57,340 S6: people excited. Um, look, if it stays where it is, 577 00:32:57,340 --> 00:32:59,500 S6: let's call it two and a half, that's not a 578 00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,580 S6: lot of room for the fed to lower rates unless 579 00:33:02,580 --> 00:33:06,780 S6: they want to give, um, the new fed chair a gift. Um, uh, 580 00:33:06,980 --> 00:33:09,140 S6: out of the gates. Uh, we'll see. But we think 581 00:33:09,180 --> 00:33:13,000 S6: the economy is good enough, jobs mixed, but good enough. 582 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,360 S6: Inflation is good enough that probably not a lot more 583 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,240 S6: rate cuts. 584 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,440 S1: Bob, what does it take for this economy to see 585 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,080 S1: another leg up in terms of a bull market that 586 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:24,240 S1: continues to run. 587 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,600 S6: Well in terms of the economy? The first part of 588 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,520 S6: your question, we are seeing that economic growth, in fact, 589 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,240 S6: it was one of our ten predictions will increase this 590 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,440 S6: year versus last year by about a half a percent. 591 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:40,200 S6: And what's the main reason for that? The one big 592 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:48,640 S6: beautiful bill, um, providing massive tax refunds, about $150 billion 593 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:53,040 S6: more than last year. And among other corporate incentives the 594 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:57,240 S6: ability to expense a lot of capital expenditures. Those two 595 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,120 S6: things should create some tailwind for the economy. Whether that 596 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,880 S6: means the market goes up, it's going to depend on 597 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,200 S6: the fed, as we just talked about, and earnings continue 598 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,250 S6: to exceed expectations. They can't just meet expectations when validation 599 00:34:12,250 --> 00:34:15,209 S6: levels are this high. They have to exceed them. So far, 600 00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:15,810 S6: so good. 601 00:34:16,969 --> 00:34:18,730 S1: Bob, I know you and the team have been working 602 00:34:18,730 --> 00:34:21,890 S1: with Pinkston on some really exciting research that has come 603 00:34:21,890 --> 00:34:26,370 S1: out recently related to faith based investing, its demand right now, 604 00:34:26,370 --> 00:34:29,410 S1: but also where we're headed in this space. What are 605 00:34:29,410 --> 00:34:29,969 S1: you learning? 606 00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:37,009 S6: So the overriding statistic is that 87% of Americans, this 607 00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:41,170 S6: is not just faith based Americans, of all Americans surveyed. 608 00:34:41,170 --> 00:34:46,690 S6: And we surveyed hundreds and hundreds, 87% say being in 609 00:34:46,690 --> 00:34:52,050 S6: good companies in their investments and avoiding bad companies is 610 00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:57,210 S6: either extremely important, very important, or somewhat important. That's a 611 00:34:57,210 --> 00:35:00,730 S6: big percentage, Rob. And I think that's why this whole 612 00:35:00,770 --> 00:35:05,330 S6: faith based movement, values based movement where people are attempting 613 00:35:05,330 --> 00:35:08,589 S6: to line up their portfolios with with their faith, with 614 00:35:08,590 --> 00:35:10,790 S6: their belief, with their values is gaining steam. 615 00:35:11,430 --> 00:35:13,870 S1: I love it. Well, we'll just continue to see it 616 00:35:13,870 --> 00:35:16,430 S1: progress and appreciate the work you and the team at 617 00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:18,270 S1: cross Mark are doing to lead the way. Thanks for 618 00:35:18,270 --> 00:35:19,070 S1: your time today. 619 00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:21,390 S6: We're having a good time doing it. Thanks, Rob. 620 00:35:21,870 --> 00:35:26,310 S1: Alright, that's Bob Dole, he's CEO and CIO at Crossmark global. 621 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:29,670 S1: You can learn more at Crossmark global.com. Now let's head 622 00:35:29,670 --> 00:35:32,310 S1: back to the phones. Greg is has been waiting patiently 623 00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:33,550 S1: in Indiana. Go ahead sir. 624 00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:37,950 S7: Yeah. Rob is basically like I said, we both built 625 00:35:37,950 --> 00:35:41,870 S7: our homes years ago. And then in between we end 626 00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:45,149 S7: up getting married, living in her home. I sold my 627 00:35:45,150 --> 00:35:47,870 S7: home on my own. She ended up selling her home, 628 00:35:48,110 --> 00:35:51,750 S7: and we bought our home. Uh, both happened to be 629 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:56,669 S7: sold in 2025. Uh, we know when we go to 630 00:35:56,710 --> 00:35:59,710 S7: the text to have the taxes prepared, we need to 631 00:35:59,710 --> 00:36:04,270 S7: be married, flying single or in my understanding, where I'll 632 00:36:04,270 --> 00:36:08,000 S7: do my taxes, come in and finish up and have 633 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:12,480 S7: hers done as well. That way hopefully that we both can, 634 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:17,520 S7: because we did not make over $250,000 each. Neither one 635 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:19,880 S7: of us. We did not make that type of a 636 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:25,000 S7: capital gain. So we're underneath that threshold. What we don't know. 637 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:30,160 S7: Besides maybe the original mortgage tax document I may need 638 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,959 S7: to take from when I bought my home and then 639 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,680 S7: the paperwork when I sold it. The same as hers 640 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,799 S7: is what was the original selling purchasing price and the 641 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,600 S7: original selling price. That may be some documents that has 642 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,239 S7: to be taken, but is there something else that we're 643 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,879 S7: not thinking of? It is very pertinent that when we 644 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,239 S7: go to the tax table. 645 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,160 S1: Yeah, it's a great question. You know, I'm not a CPA, 646 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,839 S1: so you're going to want to confirm all this. My 647 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,960 S1: understanding is the IRS will look at your marital status 648 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:06,500 S1: on December 31st of 2025. So if you married, uh, 649 00:37:06,580 --> 00:37:11,020 S1: in 2025, even if you file married filing jointly and 650 00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:14,700 S1: the return is joint, the home sale exclusions are still 651 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:18,620 S1: evaluated person by person because there were two different homes. 652 00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:21,819 S1: So the most likely outcome is that you you each 653 00:37:21,860 --> 00:37:24,420 S1: owned your own home. If you each lived in it 654 00:37:24,420 --> 00:37:27,620 S1: two out of the preceding five years prior to the sale, 655 00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:31,420 S1: and you haven't each used that exclusion in the last 656 00:37:31,420 --> 00:37:35,459 S1: two years, then you could each exclude up to 250,000 657 00:37:35,540 --> 00:37:40,580 S1: of gain on your respective homes, even on a joint return. Uh, 658 00:37:40,860 --> 00:37:45,660 S1: so you don't automatically become eligible for a $500,000 exclusion, 659 00:37:45,660 --> 00:37:49,260 S1: because that usually applies when both spouses meet the tests 660 00:37:49,260 --> 00:37:51,980 S1: on the same residence. But in this case, we're talking 661 00:37:51,980 --> 00:37:55,900 S1: about two separate residences. So in either case, whether it's married, 662 00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:59,219 S1: filing separately or jointly, I think you're going to be 663 00:37:59,260 --> 00:38:02,910 S1: fine because again, you'll meet the test. You haven't taken 664 00:38:02,910 --> 00:38:05,430 S1: it in the last two years, and if you each 665 00:38:05,469 --> 00:38:08,029 S1: have a home that meets the test with a gain 666 00:38:08,070 --> 00:38:12,310 S1: of less than 250,000, then you're covered. Now you will 667 00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:15,549 S1: want to take closing paperwork for each home. So the 668 00:38:15,550 --> 00:38:19,350 S1: closing disclosure settlement statement, which has the date of the closing, 669 00:38:19,350 --> 00:38:23,790 S1: the selling expenses which will be subtracted out from the the, 670 00:38:23,790 --> 00:38:28,590 S1: the profit, the commissions and legal fees. You'll want cost 671 00:38:28,590 --> 00:38:32,990 S1: basis records. So for the home that was built any 672 00:38:32,989 --> 00:38:38,630 S1: land purchase documents, builder contracts, construction invoices, things like that 673 00:38:39,070 --> 00:38:43,430 S1: for her home, the original purchase settlement statement and purchase 674 00:38:43,430 --> 00:38:46,470 S1: price records. And then if you all are going to 675 00:38:46,510 --> 00:38:50,710 S1: try to account for any major improvements, uh, beyond just, 676 00:38:50,750 --> 00:38:54,710 S1: you know, painting and minor fixes and repairs, you, you know, 677 00:38:54,750 --> 00:38:57,550 S1: have an addition or a remodel or a pool or, 678 00:38:57,590 --> 00:39:00,190 S1: you know, things like that that improve the value. You're 679 00:39:00,190 --> 00:39:04,640 S1: going to need documentation there. And then, you know, ultimately 680 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,000 S1: proof of primary residence status. So you know, usually not 681 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,000 S1: required upfront but smart to bring a driver's license with 682 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,560 S1: address history, things like that. And then the marriage documentation. Uh, 683 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,799 S1: so those will be the primary things you're going to 684 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,120 S1: want to, uh, to bring to have the CPA handle 685 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:21,840 S1: this for you. 686 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:24,000 S7: All right. Thank you. 687 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:26,600 S1: Does that cover it? 688 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:28,600 S7: It does. Thank you. 689 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,760 S1: All right. Thank you for your call today, Greg. And 690 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,760 S1: congratulations on your recent marriage, sir. Call anytime. Uh, quickly 691 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,440 S1: to Alabama. Mike. Go ahead. 692 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:39,840 S4: Hey, guys. 693 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,960 S8: Uh, pretty close to a similar question to what you 694 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,000 S8: just got through with. If we add a few acres 695 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,240 S8: to our house and sell, that's not on the plat 696 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:53,840 S8: right now. And have my house re. Uh, remeasured re resurveyed. 697 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,799 S8: How do I figure up that step up? Because the 698 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,080 S8: property will be adding came from my mother in law 699 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,700 S8: when she passed away three years ago. So we're probably 700 00:40:02,700 --> 00:40:06,100 S8: going to be adding about three acres to my current plat. 701 00:40:06,580 --> 00:40:09,100 S8: How do we figure up that step up basis when 702 00:40:09,100 --> 00:40:10,580 S8: it comes time for selling? 703 00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:14,580 S1: Okay. Yeah. And so you're talking about for the exclusion 704 00:40:14,580 --> 00:40:17,220 S1: with regard to this being your principal residence. 705 00:40:18,620 --> 00:40:21,100 S8: Correct. We're we have an acre and a half right now. 706 00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:23,060 S8: We're going to make it five acres. So we're going 707 00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:27,060 S8: to add three, three and a half, four acres to 708 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:30,580 S8: it so that when we sell we'll have right at 709 00:40:30,580 --> 00:40:33,420 S8: five acres. So that three, three and a half, four 710 00:40:33,420 --> 00:40:36,219 S8: acres that we'll be adding to it, uh, will be 711 00:40:36,219 --> 00:40:40,260 S8: coming from inherited property that we inherited three years ago. 712 00:40:40,820 --> 00:40:44,820 S1: Yeah, yeah. Good question. Uh, you know, so normally the, uh, 713 00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:48,140 S1: the exclusion for your primary residence would not apply to 714 00:40:48,140 --> 00:40:51,860 S1: anything beyond what's right around the home, so that additional 715 00:40:51,860 --> 00:40:56,339 S1: acreage wouldn't affect be affected here. However, you do get 716 00:40:56,340 --> 00:41:00,430 S1: the inherited, step up in basis on the three acres. 717 00:41:00,750 --> 00:41:05,230 S1: So the inherited three acres received the step up. And 718 00:41:05,230 --> 00:41:08,390 S1: basically that means the fair market value of those three 719 00:41:08,430 --> 00:41:11,790 S1: acres on the date of death or some sort of 720 00:41:11,830 --> 00:41:15,950 S1: alternate valuation date if used by the estate, but typically 721 00:41:15,989 --> 00:41:18,549 S1: be the date of death. Um, you know, that would 722 00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:21,549 S1: be the market value at that point. And then your 723 00:41:21,550 --> 00:41:25,750 S1: existing one and a half acres keeps its original basis. 724 00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:29,910 S1: Nothing changes there. So after combining them, you'll actually have 725 00:41:29,910 --> 00:41:34,589 S1: two different bases inside of one larger parcel. You'll have 726 00:41:34,590 --> 00:41:37,270 S1: the inherited three acres with the step up, and then 727 00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:40,350 S1: you'll have the original one and a half acres that 728 00:41:40,350 --> 00:41:43,110 S1: have the original cost basis. So think about it like 729 00:41:43,469 --> 00:41:48,350 S1: two tax buckets even though it's legally merged. And then, 730 00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:51,430 S1: you know, if you replatted or combine the parcels with 731 00:41:51,430 --> 00:41:55,030 S1: the county, put them under one deed, that's fine for 732 00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:59,090 S1: title or legal purposes, but for tax purposes, the IRS 733 00:41:59,090 --> 00:42:03,250 S1: still expects you to track that separately. And that's going 734 00:42:03,250 --> 00:42:06,410 S1: to matter, because eventually when you sell part or all 735 00:42:06,410 --> 00:42:09,370 S1: of the combined land, the preparer is going to have 736 00:42:09,370 --> 00:42:13,650 S1: to allocate the basis proportionately. And so they'll look at 737 00:42:13,690 --> 00:42:16,770 S1: the the inherited portion different than the one and a half. 738 00:42:16,969 --> 00:42:19,529 S1: And they're also going to determine how much of that 739 00:42:19,530 --> 00:42:23,410 S1: one and a half will be included in the primary 740 00:42:23,450 --> 00:42:27,130 S1: home exemption. Because again, not that full one and a 741 00:42:27,170 --> 00:42:30,370 S1: half acres is automatically going to be included. They may 742 00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:33,290 S1: include a smaller parcel of that to be the land 743 00:42:33,290 --> 00:42:35,730 S1: immediately around the home. Does that all make sense? 744 00:42:37,210 --> 00:42:40,410 S8: Yeah, yeah it does. So if we sell, uh, we 745 00:42:40,410 --> 00:42:41,969 S8: built a house for 140. 746 00:42:42,130 --> 00:42:43,650 S1: I'm going to have to leave it there. Stay on 747 00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:45,250 S1: the line. We'll talk a bit more off the air. 748 00:42:45,250 --> 00:42:47,730 S1: I want to give you an answer to your question. Tara, Josh, 749 00:42:47,730 --> 00:42:50,810 S1: Jim and Omar. Big thanks to those folks. Faith and finance. 750 00:42:50,810 --> 00:42:53,569 S1: Lives of partnership between Moody Radio and Faith fi. See 751 00:42:53,570 --> 00:42:54,210 S1: you tomorrow.