1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: Hi friends, this is Janet. Partial. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,160 S1: downloading this podcast and I hope you hear something that 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 S1: will really encourage and edify you. But before you start 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,399 S1: to listen, let me take a moment of your time 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: and tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,680 S1: secure How to have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 7 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,440 S1: it follows that very often, whatever our relationship is like 8 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,040 S1: with authority figures, predominantly our parents, we somehow transferred to 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,040 S1: how we see God. So if we have an angry parent, 10 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,319 S1: he's an angry God. If it's a distant parent, he's 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,520 S1: a God who's not there. I think it's important we 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: understand who God really is. And in this wonderful book 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: called secure, you're going to discover the character of God 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,080 S1: and how deeply in love God is with you. It's 15 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,839 S1: our truth tool. Our truth tools are my way of 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. So 17 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: if you'd like a copy of secure, just call 877 58. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: That's eight 7758. Give a gift of any amount. My 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,840 S1: way of saying thank you for supporting the program is 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: I'll send you a copy of secure. You can also 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:55,480 S1: do this online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. 22 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,560 S1: Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the cover 23 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,900 S1: of the book secure? Click on the photo. Go right 24 00:01:01,900 --> 00:01:03,900 S1: on through. Make your donation and we'll send you a 25 00:01:03,900 --> 00:01:06,740 S1: copy again of secure. If you want to consider becoming 26 00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:09,899 S1: a partial partner, that is the ever increasing circle of 27 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,060 S1: friends who give every single month at a level of 28 00:01:12,060 --> 00:01:14,340 S1: their own choosing. And my way of saying thank you 29 00:01:14,340 --> 00:01:16,780 S1: is this you always get the truth tool for each 30 00:01:16,780 --> 00:01:18,900 S1: and every month. And in addition to that, you get 31 00:01:18,900 --> 00:01:21,860 S1: a weekly newsletter that includes some of my writing and 32 00:01:21,860 --> 00:01:24,420 S1: a little audio piece just for my partial partners. So 33 00:01:24,420 --> 00:01:27,380 S1: either way, thank you in advance for prayerfully considering the 34 00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:30,660 S1: opportunity to financially support in the market with Janet partial 35 00:01:30,660 --> 00:01:32,700 S1: and keeping it on the air now. I hope you 36 00:01:32,740 --> 00:01:34,819 S1: hear something that will encourage you to get out and 37 00:01:34,819 --> 00:01:37,860 S1: influence and occupy in the marketplace of ideas. 38 00:01:38,340 --> 00:01:39,860 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:40,140 --> 00:01:42,380 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:44,619 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:44,740 --> 00:01:47,020 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a. 42 00:01:47,460 --> 00:01:50,420 S4: 17 years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 43 00:01:50,740 --> 00:01:53,180 S6: The idea is not to. 44 00:02:05,430 --> 00:02:08,030 S1: Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. 45 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:10,030 S1: I am so glad we're going to spend this next 46 00:02:10,030 --> 00:02:12,950 S1: hour together. So here's my opening question to sort of 47 00:02:12,990 --> 00:02:16,190 S1: get you thinking critically and biblically. If I were to 48 00:02:16,190 --> 00:02:20,110 S1: ask you this question, tell me about your relationship with God. 49 00:02:20,150 --> 00:02:23,350 S1: Tell me about your attachment to God. Would you know 50 00:02:23,350 --> 00:02:25,950 S1: what I meant by attachment? And therefore, would you be 51 00:02:25,990 --> 00:02:27,950 S1: able to have a follow up question that you could 52 00:02:27,950 --> 00:02:31,470 S1: say it was healthy or it was an unhealthy attachment? 53 00:02:31,470 --> 00:02:33,030 S1: Or do you think, oh, I don't even think of 54 00:02:33,030 --> 00:02:35,030 S1: the word attachment when I talk about God? Well, that's 55 00:02:35,030 --> 00:02:38,230 S1: what we're going to talk about. Secure how to have 56 00:02:38,230 --> 00:02:41,190 S1: a healthy attachment to God. Now, I don't know where 57 00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:43,350 S1: you are in my house, when my four babies were 58 00:02:43,350 --> 00:02:45,869 S1: running around and I had four under six, we used 59 00:02:45,870 --> 00:02:47,430 S1: to call it the arsenic hour. Not that we would 60 00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:50,109 S1: ever consider that as an option, but it was. It 61 00:02:50,110 --> 00:02:53,150 S1: was one of the roughest times of day. Or you 62 00:02:53,150 --> 00:02:54,989 S1: happen to be finishing up the work day. You're coming 63 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:57,570 S1: home and you're burnt out and you're exhausted. You're discouraged. 64 00:02:57,570 --> 00:03:00,010 S1: You're fatigued. You just you just want to set your 65 00:03:00,010 --> 00:03:02,450 S1: mind on things above. Well, good, because you've come to 66 00:03:02,490 --> 00:03:04,930 S1: the right place. I don't know, just thinking about God 67 00:03:04,930 --> 00:03:08,090 S1: is always a good idea. But thinking about our relationship 68 00:03:08,090 --> 00:03:10,290 S1: with God an even better idea. And boy, do we 69 00:03:10,290 --> 00:03:12,810 S1: have a great teacher this hour. Ken Haddock is with us. 70 00:03:12,810 --> 00:03:17,130 S1: She's a licensed professional counselor, supervisor, and an accredited clinical 71 00:03:17,130 --> 00:03:19,930 S1: trauma specialist, which will factor into this in a bit. 72 00:03:20,050 --> 00:03:23,610 S1: With expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through clinical 73 00:03:23,610 --> 00:03:27,010 S1: and biblical methods. I'm always interested in people who take 74 00:03:27,010 --> 00:03:30,130 S1: that biblical and clinical approach. Ken, by the way, has 75 00:03:30,130 --> 00:03:32,930 S1: spoken at conferences and churches, been featured in numerous media 76 00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:36,810 S1: outlets regarding the intersection of Christianity and mental health counseling. 77 00:03:37,530 --> 00:03:40,850 S1: Kenza and her husband own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is 78 00:03:40,850 --> 00:03:45,130 S1: an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. 79 00:03:45,370 --> 00:03:48,290 S1: She's the author of The Three Enemies of Your Mental 80 00:03:48,290 --> 00:03:53,130 S1: Health and the Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. That piqued your curiosity, 81 00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:55,110 S1: didn't hang on to that for a minute. And the 82 00:03:55,110 --> 00:03:56,910 S1: book that we're going to talk about today eventually is 83 00:03:56,910 --> 00:04:00,230 S1: called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. 84 00:04:00,230 --> 00:04:02,950 S1: So pull up your chair, make yourself comfortable, catch your 85 00:04:02,950 --> 00:04:05,870 S1: mind on things above. Obviously, if you're driving, I'm being figurative, 86 00:04:05,910 --> 00:04:09,070 S1: but just make yourself comfortable as we step into this conversation. 87 00:04:09,110 --> 00:04:11,350 S1: Kenzie the Warmest of Welcomes I cannot tell you how 88 00:04:11,350 --> 00:04:14,590 S1: much I've been looking forward to this conversation. You represent 89 00:04:14,590 --> 00:04:16,790 S1: one of my hot button issues, which is really and 90 00:04:16,790 --> 00:04:21,510 S1: truly working diligently, compassionately, faithfully to remove the stigma of 91 00:04:21,510 --> 00:04:24,510 S1: mental health issues from the church. And the more we 92 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:27,510 S1: talk about it, the more I think that stigma will evaporate, 93 00:04:27,510 --> 00:04:30,190 S1: the more we're going to understand that churches are where 94 00:04:30,190 --> 00:04:33,030 S1: people turn. And by the way, these are secular universities 95 00:04:33,029 --> 00:04:35,510 S1: doing this study. When they're given a diagnosis, they don't 96 00:04:35,510 --> 00:04:39,190 S1: want their clinician, they want their pastor, their priest, their imam, 97 00:04:39,230 --> 00:04:41,750 S1: their rabbi. They want somebody of faith to affirm that 98 00:04:41,750 --> 00:04:44,310 S1: they still have value. That tells you something about our 99 00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:46,590 S1: attachment to God. But I want to go to the 100 00:04:46,589 --> 00:04:49,350 S1: last book that you wrote before this one, the Ex-Muslims 101 00:04:49,350 --> 00:04:53,089 S1: Guide to Christianity. Your stunningly beautiful, and I would not 102 00:04:53,089 --> 00:04:55,729 S1: have a clue had I not saw something about your 103 00:04:55,730 --> 00:04:58,970 S1: past that you came out of an Islamic background. Tell 104 00:04:58,970 --> 00:05:00,650 S1: me your story. I really want to hear it. 105 00:05:01,730 --> 00:05:05,130 S7: Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. You know, 106 00:05:05,650 --> 00:05:10,050 S7: Islam was a huge factor in me even having an 107 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:14,010 S7: unhealthy attachment to God, but more so. Janet, I feel 108 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:17,210 S7: like my life experiences and trauma that took place in 109 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:21,850 S7: my younger years of life impacted how I viewed authority figures, 110 00:05:21,850 --> 00:05:25,530 S7: specifically God. And it made it very difficult for me 111 00:05:25,529 --> 00:05:29,610 S7: to just trust, even when I became a believer, that 112 00:05:29,610 --> 00:05:31,849 S7: I have a God who cares about me, that I 113 00:05:31,890 --> 00:05:34,409 S7: truly have a God who loves me. And so I 114 00:05:34,450 --> 00:05:38,210 S7: grew up in an Islamic household, and my perspective of 115 00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:40,330 S7: life as as a muslim girl was that I was 116 00:05:40,330 --> 00:05:42,930 S7: here for a certain amount of time, and my goal 117 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,170 S7: was to literally my goal in life was to earn 118 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:50,620 S7: salvation through works. And so Growing up as a muslim, 119 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:54,220 S7: my identity and even my eternal security were tied to 120 00:05:54,260 --> 00:05:58,500 S7: my parents. Because Islam teaches that your parents can influence 121 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:04,060 S7: your eternal life. And so this is where, like everything 122 00:06:04,060 --> 00:06:06,539 S7: shifted in my life when I was 16 years old, 123 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:10,620 S7: my parents arranged a marriage for me. And this marriage 124 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:12,900 S7: was for solely for the purpose of staying in the 125 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:15,860 S7: United States. So imagine I'm a sophomore in high school 126 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:20,180 S7: and this is a fraudulent marriage. I was told, we're 127 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:22,900 S7: going to the courthouse. You're going to marry this person 128 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:25,339 S7: and make sure you don't kiss him on the lips 129 00:06:25,339 --> 00:06:29,940 S7: that I remember. And literally, we're going to come back 130 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:32,540 S7: home and you're never to bring it up again. And 131 00:06:32,540 --> 00:06:36,980 S7: that's what I did. And so years. Fast forward years later, 132 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:40,380 S7: I turn 18. And while still married on paper, I 133 00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:43,300 S7: start dating a guy behind my parents back because as 134 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:45,940 S7: a muslim, I wasn't allowed to date even at 18. 135 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:49,239 S7: And so I got pregnant by him and Janet. I 136 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,560 S7: was petrified. I guess my mom could tell from my 137 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:56,880 S7: face that something was off, and she confronted me one night. 138 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,640 S7: And let's just say it was a bad night for 139 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,479 S7: me that night, and I. I left home and I 140 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,000 S7: ran away from home and miscarried a couple days later. 141 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,440 S7: And so it was it was an awful, like road 142 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,960 S7: that God redeemed me from. You know, a few months passed, 143 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,680 S7: and as I was trying to reconcile with my family, 144 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,200 S7: I became pregnant again and my parents found out and 145 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,760 S7: threatened that if I didn't abort the baby, they would 146 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:29,240 S7: turn me into immigration for the fraudulent marriage. And, um, 147 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,240 S7: between that and they used Islamic teachings, which site that 148 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,440 S7: a baby born out of wedlock is condemned to hell. 149 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,680 S7: That's what Islam teaches. Um, and so within a couple 150 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,080 S7: of weeks, I just succumbed to the pressure and had 151 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,260 S7: an abortion. And Janet, even though as a muslim, I 152 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:49,300 S7: thought I was. It was like an act of mercy. 153 00:07:49,340 --> 00:07:53,500 S7: I still felt broken. Something broke within me. And not 154 00:07:53,500 --> 00:07:56,540 S7: long after that, I was approached by the US marshals, 155 00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:59,060 S7: and they were questioning me about the marriage that took 156 00:07:59,060 --> 00:08:05,100 S7: place when I was 16. I know it's so much. Wow. 157 00:08:05,220 --> 00:08:06,860 S7: I'm getting to the attachment. 158 00:08:07,820 --> 00:08:09,980 S1: But but I'm thinking, first of all, I'll just pause 159 00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:11,380 S1: in the story for five seconds. And I don't want 160 00:08:11,380 --> 00:08:13,700 S1: to rush this because first of all, I love to 161 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:16,420 S1: hear how people come to faith in Jesus Christ. It's 162 00:08:16,420 --> 00:08:18,780 S1: that old, old story, like the hymn says, and nobody 163 00:08:18,780 --> 00:08:21,900 S1: should ever get tired of hearing how somebody else comes 164 00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:24,860 S1: to faith in Christ. The day the angels sent up 165 00:08:24,860 --> 00:08:26,500 S1: a roar. The day your name was written in the 166 00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:28,380 S1: Lamb's Book of Life. That's the best story any of 167 00:08:28,380 --> 00:08:30,980 S1: us could hear. But I was also thinking, how gracious 168 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:33,980 S1: and merciful and good is our God that you went 169 00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:38,060 S1: through this heartbreaking, heart wrenching, horrific, might be so bold, 170 00:08:38,059 --> 00:08:42,420 S1: hellish story. And God turns around and you are wounded. 171 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:45,440 S1: He now makes you a wounded comforter with a specialty 172 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,240 S1: in dealing with people in trauma. It isn't book learning. 173 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,560 S1: It isn't head knowledge. It's I have been there. I 174 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,400 S1: know what trauma is, but I also know how to 175 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,440 S1: heal through it. And let me tell you how God 176 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,440 S1: is so good. His classroom is sometimes as hard, but 177 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,559 S1: it is so worth it. So when we come back, 178 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:02,760 S1: I want to go to the rest of the story 179 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,160 S1: and I want to pick it up with you talking 180 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,720 S1: to the US marshals. I told you I was excited 181 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,040 S1: about this conversation. Kenza Haddock is with us, a wonderful author, 182 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,040 S1: a fabulous Christian counselor. Her latest book, and this is 183 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,880 S1: all tied to secure. Believe me, it's called secure. How 184 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,760 S1: to have a Healthy Attachment to God. Very important conversation. 185 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,520 S1: May you be encouraged as we continue right after this. 186 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,050 S1: How does our view of God gets distorted. Do you 187 00:09:43,050 --> 00:09:45,530 S1: struggle with feeling close to God? Well, that's why I've 188 00:09:45,530 --> 00:09:48,450 S1: chosen secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. 189 00:09:48,490 --> 00:09:51,010 S1: As this month's truth tool, discover how to counter the 190 00:09:51,010 --> 00:09:53,810 S1: lies about the truth of God's character. Ask for your 191 00:09:53,809 --> 00:09:56,010 S1: copy of secure. When you give a gift of any 192 00:09:56,010 --> 00:10:00,010 S1: amount to in the market, call eight 7758. That's eight 193 00:10:00,050 --> 00:10:04,329 S1: 7758 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. 194 00:10:07,290 --> 00:10:10,970 S1: We are visiting with Ken Haddock, who's a licensed professional counselor, 195 00:10:10,970 --> 00:10:15,290 S1: supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist with expertise in 196 00:10:15,290 --> 00:10:19,569 S1: treating complex mental health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. 197 00:10:19,570 --> 00:10:22,290 S1: She's a marvelous speaker and excellent author. Her latest book 198 00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:25,610 S1: is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. 199 00:10:25,770 --> 00:10:29,610 S1: But I think it's paramount you understand where Kenza came from, 200 00:10:29,929 --> 00:10:32,130 S1: how God is using her to deal with people who 201 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:34,650 S1: have suffered trauma, and how this is all tied to 202 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:37,130 S1: the idea of attachment to God. All of this connects. 203 00:10:37,130 --> 00:10:38,970 S1: So I want to go back to exactly where we 204 00:10:38,970 --> 00:10:41,830 S1: left off. And that was you had this marriage. It 205 00:10:41,830 --> 00:10:44,550 S1: was planting you in the US by having this marriage 206 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:48,150 S1: only on paper. And I was stunned by a couple 207 00:10:48,190 --> 00:10:49,829 S1: of things that you said before. Let me just make 208 00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:51,710 S1: a quick observation, then pick it up, if you would, 209 00:10:51,710 --> 00:10:54,270 S1: where you were. I had never heard before, Kenza, that 210 00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:56,790 S1: your mom and your dad can have an impact on 211 00:10:56,790 --> 00:11:00,150 S1: your quote unquote, salvation in Islam. Tell me more about that. 212 00:11:00,990 --> 00:11:07,310 S7: Yes, absolutely. So Islam teaches that my identity is tied 213 00:11:07,309 --> 00:11:11,189 S7: to my parents. So much so that when I go 214 00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:13,350 S7: to write my name, I have to write my last 215 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:18,710 S7: name first, then my first name. And so they talk about, um, 216 00:11:19,429 --> 00:11:23,150 S7: basically on Judgment Day, that's what they that's what they 217 00:11:23,150 --> 00:11:28,109 S7: see happens whenever we pass away. We go before Allah. 218 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:31,990 S7: And on Judgment Day, if our sins and good works 219 00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:36,750 S7: are to close to one another, they're able. My parents 220 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:41,090 S7: are able to influence Allah in his decision as to 221 00:11:41,130 --> 00:11:44,530 S7: where he'll send me to heaven or hell. And so 222 00:11:44,730 --> 00:11:47,690 S7: that makes it. I mean, it puts a huge burden 223 00:11:47,690 --> 00:11:50,850 S7: on the child, even as an adult, to make sure 224 00:11:50,850 --> 00:11:52,370 S7: they appease their parents. 225 00:11:53,290 --> 00:11:56,209 S1: Well, and you talk about attachment. Boy, my mind is 226 00:11:56,210 --> 00:11:58,250 S1: just racing to see the impact that could have on 227 00:11:58,250 --> 00:12:01,250 S1: somebody's mental health. To think that not only are your 228 00:12:01,250 --> 00:12:04,449 S1: parents the disciplinary in the family, but they can determine 229 00:12:04,450 --> 00:12:07,530 S1: your salvation for eternity. I mean, that is overwhelming. Okay, 230 00:12:07,570 --> 00:12:10,850 S1: so so finally you end up with the US marshal. 231 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:12,689 S1: Tell me what happens in this conversation. 232 00:12:13,450 --> 00:12:17,010 S7: Yes. So when they showed up, the first thing I 233 00:12:17,010 --> 00:12:19,849 S7: thought about was God is punishing me. And when I 234 00:12:19,850 --> 00:12:22,290 S7: say God, I mean all of my perspective of God. 235 00:12:22,290 --> 00:12:26,570 S7: At the time, I felt like this is him punishing 236 00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:29,690 S7: me for everything I had done. And the US marshals 237 00:12:29,690 --> 00:12:32,610 S7: were more interested in my parents at the time because 238 00:12:32,610 --> 00:12:35,010 S7: the marriage happened when I was underage, but I just 239 00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:38,150 S7: could not give my parents up because in my mind, 240 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:42,790 S7: they were my only chance for retribution on Judgment Day. 241 00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:46,590 S7: And so I denied. I mean, I literally I lied 242 00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:50,190 S7: to the marshals. I denied that the marriage was fraudulent. 243 00:12:50,190 --> 00:12:53,350 S7: And when my parents found out that I was under investigation, 244 00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:56,070 S7: they said Allah was punishing me for everything I had done. 245 00:12:56,070 --> 00:13:00,910 S7: So even, um, I feel like it reaffirmed my distorted 246 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:06,390 S7: perception still. And so with my belief that my only 247 00:13:06,429 --> 00:13:10,830 S7: hope for eternity in heaven were my parents, especially with 248 00:13:10,830 --> 00:13:13,350 S7: my list of sins, I was very I knew that 249 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:16,830 S7: I had sinned against God. Um, I just wouldn't turn 250 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:19,190 S7: them over. And so I was arrested for obstruction of 251 00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:21,510 S7: justice along with other charges. 252 00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:24,350 S1: Wow. So did you end up getting sentenced as a 253 00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:25,189 S1: result of this? 254 00:13:26,070 --> 00:13:30,750 S7: Absolutely. Yes, I was sentenced. I served around six months 255 00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:35,480 S7: in incarceration. And, um, my attorney, the attorney. My parents 256 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,000 S7: hired at the time. He, um. I pled guilty to 257 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,840 S7: obstruction of justice in exchange for my parents to never 258 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:48,400 S7: get prosecuted, and I felt like I was protecting them. 259 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:52,320 S7: I was sort of making up for all of my sins. 260 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,840 S7: I mean, that was my mindset. And so I. Yeah, 261 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,640 S7: I was released, placed on deportation proceedings. I had to 262 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,960 S7: pay a restitution. And then I just three years later, 263 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:10,400 S7: immigration proceedings started. And my attorney at the time said 264 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,600 S7: that the only chance I had of remaining in the 265 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,840 S7: country was telling the whole truth. And even then, my 266 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,920 S7: chances of staying were about 5%. And I figured Janet 5% 267 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,680 S7: was better than nothing. So I held on to that hope. Um, I, 268 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,760 S7: I told I ran what my attorney said by my 269 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,300 S7: parents and they were livid. They said, how dare I 270 00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:35,660 S7: make them look bad? And so that was one of 271 00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:39,020 S7: the most painful experiences I had in my life, because 272 00:14:39,020 --> 00:14:42,020 S7: I was in such a vulnerable state and I felt like, 273 00:14:42,380 --> 00:14:45,100 S7: you know, my parents were just throwing me to the wolves. 274 00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:47,420 S7: They were like, figure it out on your own. And 275 00:14:47,420 --> 00:14:49,580 S7: it's like, I didn't even start it. 276 00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:52,580 S1: Exactly. But not only that, Kenzie, you're in a position 277 00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:55,340 S1: where you have to make a Hobson's choice, your freedom 278 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,020 S1: or your parents. It was like, I can't win either 279 00:14:58,020 --> 00:15:01,060 S1: way on this. So how did you finally reach a decision? 280 00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:07,180 S7: So thankfully, at the time I was in a relationship 281 00:15:07,180 --> 00:15:10,540 S7: with someone. Not necessarily a healthy one, but at least 282 00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:13,420 S7: I wasn't subjected to my parents influence as much as 283 00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:15,660 S7: I would have if I had been living with them. 284 00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:18,460 S7: But I still felt like I was between a rock 285 00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:21,020 S7: and a hard place. If I tell the truth, I 286 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:24,620 S7: can possibly save myself from an earthly perspective. But because 287 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:27,660 S7: of my list of sins that's stacked up against me, 288 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:31,360 S7: I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and I felt like 289 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,720 S7: then my parents are not going to to stand up 290 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,520 S7: for me in eternal life per se. And so I 291 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,960 S7: became so depressed, I experienced suicidal ideations. I thought about 292 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,400 S7: ending my life, but my list of sins was so long. 293 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,200 S7: I remember one night it was my list of sins 294 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,720 S7: was so long I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and 295 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,200 S7: that if I went ahead and ended my life, I 296 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,160 S7: would end up in hell. And throughout the next couple 297 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,600 S7: of weeks, I cried out to God for mercy. And 298 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,320 S7: when I say God, I mean whoever was willing to 299 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,640 S7: hear me at the time. And that was when around 300 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,880 S7: that time is when I had a dream that it 301 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,840 S7: was the end times and heaven opened. And in my 302 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,120 S7: dream I saw a man in a white robe coming 303 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:26,040 S7: down from heaven. And that man was Jesus. And it 304 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,100 S7: was it was just incredible because I had been tormented 305 00:16:31,420 --> 00:16:34,460 S7: for years, and for the first time I felt this 306 00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:38,300 S7: peace that I could. I could not describe. 307 00:16:38,860 --> 00:16:41,340 S1: Wow. All I could think of when you were talking 308 00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:44,220 S1: is he's not willing that any should perish, and that 309 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:47,460 S1: he'll use any means to draw people to himself. Yes. 310 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:50,900 S1: Even dreams. And so here is this dream of Jesus 311 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,100 S1: coming to you. I want to pick the story up 312 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:57,620 S1: exactly at that point, because it's just amazing that you 313 00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:00,060 S1: weren't saying, okay, that's it. I don't want anything to 314 00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:02,180 S1: do with Allah. I don't want anything to do with God. 315 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:04,300 S1: In fact, I don't want anything to do with religion 316 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,900 S1: at all. It's tied me up into an emotional and 317 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:09,340 S1: mental pretzel to the point where I want to end 318 00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:11,660 S1: my own life. I don't want anything at all. But 319 00:17:11,660 --> 00:17:14,020 S1: that is not how you reacted. I want to dig 320 00:17:14,020 --> 00:17:17,260 S1: deeper into how you did respond to who you saw 321 00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:20,100 S1: in that dream. When we return, Ken Tzaddik is with us. 322 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:24,659 S1: Marvelous speaker and author and a compassionate licensed professional Christian 323 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:41,109 S1: counselor back after this. Ken is with us. She and 324 00:17:41,109 --> 00:17:43,870 S1: her husband, by the way, own Oceanic Counseling Group, which 325 00:17:43,869 --> 00:17:48,030 S1: is an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. 326 00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:50,909 S1: Wonderful author. Her latest book is called Secure How to 327 00:17:50,910 --> 00:17:53,830 S1: Have a Healthy Attachment to God, and our story is 328 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:56,990 S1: leading to that point. So you have this marvelous dream 329 00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:58,950 S1: you cried out to who was ever there. And the 330 00:17:58,950 --> 00:18:02,590 S1: God who is there did in fact respond. This gets 331 00:18:02,590 --> 00:18:07,350 S1: to the idea of getting attached. So you dream about Jesus. 332 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:09,989 S1: What happens then? I mean, because this is antithetical to 333 00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:13,710 S1: everything you ever knew, everything you've ever experienced, all of 334 00:18:13,710 --> 00:18:16,590 S1: a sudden, there he is. But in some respects, he's 335 00:18:16,590 --> 00:18:19,110 S1: wonderfully dangerous. Talk to me about this. 336 00:18:20,109 --> 00:18:24,470 S7: Absolutely. You know, I wish I could tell you I. 337 00:18:24,510 --> 00:18:27,450 S7: I saw him and was excited and gave my life 338 00:18:27,450 --> 00:18:30,930 S7: to Jesus and it was great. The issue that I think, 339 00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:34,409 S7: I think is so important that we as believers, even 340 00:18:34,450 --> 00:18:39,530 S7: even remember that we're still we still have a nervous system, right? 341 00:18:39,570 --> 00:18:43,929 S7: And so I saw the God who answered me, but 342 00:18:43,930 --> 00:18:47,530 S7: I still didn't trust him. It took years for me 343 00:18:47,530 --> 00:18:50,890 S7: to to actually develop a healthy relationship with with God. 344 00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:53,690 S7: But it started with that first step. And that first 345 00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:57,129 S7: step for me was trying to figure out, what does 346 00:18:57,130 --> 00:19:01,369 S7: this dream mean? Because yes, it was the complete opposite 347 00:19:01,369 --> 00:19:03,890 S7: of what I grew up with. I grew up believing 348 00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:06,690 S7: that Jesus is just a prophet. There is, you know, 349 00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:09,690 S7: God doesn't have a son. And so I understood that 350 00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:13,970 S7: making that decision meant that I needed to start my 351 00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:17,890 S7: life from scratch, even from a safety perspective. So it 352 00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:21,450 S7: took about 8 to 10 months for me to to 353 00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:25,869 S7: know for sure. Okay. I'm just wound up the courage 354 00:19:25,869 --> 00:19:29,910 S7: and say, okay, I'm moving to South Carolina for safety reasons. Um, 355 00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:34,709 S7: getting away from family. And I'm just going to discover 356 00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:37,750 S7: who Jesus is. And that's what I did. I moved 357 00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:41,030 S7: to South Carolina, gave my life to Jesus. And it's 358 00:19:41,030 --> 00:19:45,470 S7: incredible just how God fathers us. I mean, I moved, 359 00:19:45,470 --> 00:19:48,630 S7: I didn't have anyone there, and he provided people for 360 00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:52,350 S7: me for every aspect of it. Even gave me a 361 00:19:52,350 --> 00:19:55,550 S7: place to live with a woman who let me stay 362 00:19:55,550 --> 00:19:58,550 S7: with her while I was getting on my feet. And 363 00:19:58,910 --> 00:20:03,270 S7: I mean, he provided me with a wonderful husband, and 364 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:06,070 S7: now I'm not. I'm not saying it was linear. Obviously 365 00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:09,230 S7: it was not linear because God's love is enduring and 366 00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:12,950 S7: he is. He is so patient with us. But I 367 00:20:12,990 --> 00:20:16,510 S7: definitely didn't start out life just running to the throne 368 00:20:16,550 --> 00:20:19,830 S7: of grace. I was more so tiptoeing around God because 369 00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:24,130 S7: my my understanding of him and my attachment to him 370 00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:27,810 S7: was so disorganized. That's what we call it in mental health. 371 00:20:27,850 --> 00:20:32,050 S7: It's disorganized. Meaning? Like I saw him as powerful, but 372 00:20:32,050 --> 00:20:35,449 S7: I was not confident in his love for me. Mhm. 373 00:20:35,490 --> 00:20:37,369 S7: And that that made me anxious. 374 00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:40,570 S1: You used the word and. What a. I'm so grateful 375 00:20:40,570 --> 00:20:42,690 S1: that you really just felt the tugging from the Holy 376 00:20:42,690 --> 00:20:45,490 S1: Spirit to tell your story like this. Kenza because it's 377 00:20:45,490 --> 00:20:48,689 S1: so important not only for people listening all across the 378 00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:51,330 S1: country who are at various places in their relationship with 379 00:20:51,330 --> 00:20:53,770 S1: the Lord and perhaps don't yet know him as Lord 380 00:20:53,770 --> 00:20:56,649 S1: and Savior. And hearing your story is so powerful to 381 00:20:56,690 --> 00:20:59,290 S1: see what God can do and how he rescues and 382 00:20:59,290 --> 00:21:02,090 S1: redeems and restores and does that so well. But this 383 00:21:02,090 --> 00:21:04,690 S1: takes us to this whole idea of attachment. There was 384 00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:08,170 S1: a brutal God in Islam. No matter what you did, 385 00:21:08,170 --> 00:21:10,770 S1: you had to try to earn your salvation. Your parents 386 00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:13,330 S1: end up playing a role in that. This side of eternity, 387 00:21:13,330 --> 00:21:17,530 S1: that side of eternity, you're forced into a false relationship 388 00:21:17,530 --> 00:21:20,859 S1: in order to sort of skirt the law. And so 389 00:21:20,859 --> 00:21:22,460 S1: I can see why you would have said you would 390 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:26,699 S1: have tiptoed rather than run to his everlasting arms of love. 391 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:28,780 S1: So back this up just a little bit. For people 392 00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:30,820 S1: who don't live in your world, what does the word 393 00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:34,620 S1: attachment mean? Because you didn't superglue yourself to God right away? 394 00:21:34,619 --> 00:21:36,780 S1: It took a while to get there. So in your world, 395 00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:38,500 S1: what does the word attachment mean? 396 00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:45,619 S7: Attachment. So the Lord made us for relationships with with 397 00:21:45,619 --> 00:21:49,619 S7: him and and with one another. And attachment means that 398 00:21:49,619 --> 00:21:52,820 S7: bond that we develop with God in order for us 399 00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:56,020 S7: to feel whole. And so what happens when we don't 400 00:21:56,020 --> 00:22:00,260 S7: develop that healthy attachment or that relationship, that healthy relationship, 401 00:22:00,260 --> 00:22:03,740 S7: or that bond with God? Because we are still made 402 00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:09,060 S7: for relationships, we start attaching ourselves to other people, or 403 00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:12,820 S7: we try to find our identity in work or something else. 404 00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:17,020 S7: And the problem is anyone or anything else that's a 405 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,199 S7: substitute to a loving, powerful, sovereign God is going to 406 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:25,679 S7: fail us. And that's what starts that dynamic of or 407 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,440 S7: we call it the crazy cycle of anxiety and depression. 408 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,920 S7: It's inner turmoil. And so what I found is really 409 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,200 S7: what keeps us from developing a healthy relationship with God 410 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:42,959 S7: is we hold misperceptions of him. Yes, we do. And 411 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,040 S7: and we're not willing to investigate those misperceptions. We're not 412 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,240 S7: willing to say, you know what? Okay, let me find 413 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,080 S7: out who God is for myself outside of my relationship 414 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,280 S7: with my parents, outside of what other people portrayed him 415 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,840 S7: to be like, I need to find out for myself 416 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,960 S7: if he is truly a loving God. Because. Yes. And 417 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,920 S7: I'll stop right there really quick. So many people that 418 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,400 S7: I have treated believe in the power of God. They do. 419 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,140 S7: They believe he's sovereign, but they don't believe he's loving, 420 00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:19,140 S7: and that's what keeps them from developing an attachment. 421 00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:21,980 S1: Oh, this is such rich, fertile field. Let me linger 422 00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:25,020 S1: here a little bit. So not just your experience, but 423 00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:27,100 S1: I bet for so many people listening right now, I 424 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:28,780 S1: don't know why it is and why we're kind of 425 00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:32,180 S1: hardwired to do this, but we tend to superimpose on God. 426 00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:34,900 S1: Whatever the impression of our parent, particularly our father, is 427 00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,740 S1: to us. So if he's an absentee dad, he's an 428 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:41,340 S1: absentee God. If he's a a disciplinarian, a harsh disciplinarian, 429 00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:43,580 S1: then he's a cosmic bully playing whack a mole with 430 00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:46,420 S1: us at every turn. Um, if he's an angry God, 431 00:23:46,420 --> 00:23:48,820 S1: then the God of all creation is an angry God 432 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:51,379 S1: as well. And so I loved what you said because 433 00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:54,940 S1: it's so insightful, which is why don't we examine where 434 00:23:54,940 --> 00:23:57,100 S1: we're getting those ideas from? And the best way to 435 00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,540 S1: do that is to open His word and let God 436 00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:02,340 S1: reveal himself to you. So I want to pick it 437 00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:04,619 S1: up at exactly that point when we get back, because 438 00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:07,500 S1: this is really I mean, I want to have this rich, 439 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,580 S1: deep relationship with him, but I, I understand that sometimes 440 00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:12,220 S1: I have to take out the hedge trimmers and trim 441 00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:15,109 S1: away the bramble bushes that keep me from having that healthy, 442 00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:19,390 S1: secure attachment to a God who loves me always and forever. 443 00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:21,270 S1: Kenza Haddock is with us. Her new book is called 444 00:24:21,270 --> 00:24:23,790 S1: Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. It's 445 00:24:23,790 --> 00:24:26,070 S1: a small book, but it's a powerful book and there's 446 00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:40,230 S1: so much to cover. We'll continue right after this. We 447 00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:43,830 S1: were created for relationships. Developing a healthy attachment to God 448 00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:46,949 S1: helps us form good relationships with others, and that's why 449 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:49,870 S1: I've chosen secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. 450 00:24:49,869 --> 00:24:52,710 S1: As this month's truth tool, discover how real security is 451 00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:55,350 S1: found in your relationship with God. As for your copy 452 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:57,230 S1: of secure, when you give a gift of any amount 453 00:24:57,230 --> 00:25:01,790 S1: to in the market, call 877. 58. That's 877 Janet 454 00:25:01,790 --> 00:25:04,550 S1: 58 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. 455 00:25:07,190 --> 00:25:09,430 S1: It is so good to have Ken on the program, 456 00:25:09,430 --> 00:25:13,649 S1: a licensed professional counselor supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma 457 00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:17,970 S1: specialist with expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through 458 00:25:17,970 --> 00:25:22,530 S1: both clinical and biblical methods. Kinsa speaks at conferences and churches. 459 00:25:22,530 --> 00:25:25,250 S1: She's interviewed all the time, and she and her husband 460 00:25:25,290 --> 00:25:29,090 S1: own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health 461 00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:32,889 S1: agency that's located in South Carolina. She's written two previous books, 462 00:25:32,890 --> 00:25:36,490 S1: The Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims 463 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:38,609 S1: Guide to Christianity. And you've got a little sneak peek 464 00:25:38,609 --> 00:25:41,170 S1: into that as you heard part of her testimony. Her 465 00:25:41,170 --> 00:25:44,250 S1: latest book and her testimony leads us right to this 466 00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:47,369 S1: book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment 467 00:25:47,369 --> 00:25:50,570 S1: to God. So we just recognized before the break this 468 00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:53,609 S1: reality for right or wrong, we tend to superimpose on 469 00:25:53,609 --> 00:25:56,970 S1: God an image of our parents, particularly our dad. And 470 00:25:56,970 --> 00:26:01,130 S1: whatever outstanding definer of our dad is the outstanding definer 471 00:26:01,130 --> 00:26:04,050 S1: for God. You challenged us rightfully to say, wait a minute, 472 00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:06,570 S1: go back and start looking at some of those myths 473 00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:09,869 S1: and do that by examining the Word of God In 474 00:26:09,869 --> 00:26:12,030 S1: this process of trying to figure out how I can 475 00:26:12,030 --> 00:26:14,590 S1: feel secure in my relationship to God, or to have 476 00:26:14,590 --> 00:26:16,990 S1: a healthy attachment, as you put it. You write that 477 00:26:16,990 --> 00:26:19,750 S1: we all have a different attachment style. Talk to me 478 00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:21,189 S1: a little bit about those styles. 479 00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:28,190 S7: Yes, absolutely. So we have, depending on the way our 480 00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:33,430 S7: authority figures were, we can develop a different attachment style. 481 00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:38,310 S7: And so for example we can be anxious around God. 482 00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:41,990 S7: If we had a parent who was very intrusive or 483 00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:46,750 S7: clingy or we felt, for example, uh, guilty for wanting 484 00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:49,750 S7: to be independent. Then as a result, we're going to 485 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:52,470 S7: feel like God is controlling. Or maybe there was a 486 00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:56,550 S7: ton of emphasis on performance, or maybe the authority figure 487 00:26:56,590 --> 00:26:59,630 S7: or parent lived through you, or vicariously through you, or 488 00:26:59,630 --> 00:27:04,630 S7: maybe the parents anxiety transmitted to you. That's how we 489 00:27:04,670 --> 00:27:09,250 S7: develop an anxious attachment. And so when we feel anxious 490 00:27:09,250 --> 00:27:14,010 S7: around God, we're sort of feeling like walking around on eggshells, 491 00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:17,370 S7: feeling like God is disappointed with me. God expects me 492 00:27:17,369 --> 00:27:23,090 S7: to be perfect. Janet, I've even had someone quote scripture, 493 00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:25,250 S7: and I mean, they didn't know that. But they said, 494 00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:27,930 S7: doesn't it say you need to be perfect like your 495 00:27:27,930 --> 00:27:31,169 S7: Heavenly father is perfect? And I said that. But that's 496 00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:33,970 S7: not that's not the context of that. 497 00:27:34,890 --> 00:27:35,449 S8: That's right. 498 00:27:36,290 --> 00:27:38,530 S7: The context of it is not that we're supposed to 499 00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:41,970 S7: be perfect and not get anything wrong. The context of 500 00:27:41,970 --> 00:27:46,610 S7: it was forgiveness, which he he he enables us to. 501 00:27:46,930 --> 00:27:51,930 S7: And so that's anxious attachment. The, the other attachment is 502 00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:55,850 S7: when we have a distant parent that's more like the 503 00:27:55,850 --> 00:28:00,330 S7: avoidant attachment. That parent is unavailable to comfort us or 504 00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:03,530 S7: they you feel like your feelings were minimized or not 505 00:28:03,530 --> 00:28:07,740 S7: validated growing up. So then you grow up doubting your reality, 506 00:28:07,940 --> 00:28:11,340 S7: or you wonder if if you need to just keep 507 00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:15,260 S7: repressing your emotions. And so the parent maybe was annoyed 508 00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:17,940 S7: with you when you needed their help. And so you 509 00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:20,580 S7: grow up with the idea that asking for help is 510 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:24,500 S7: wrong and or that it makes you look needy. And therefore, 511 00:28:24,859 --> 00:28:28,260 S7: you know, when God says, come to me, you doubt 512 00:28:28,260 --> 00:28:30,580 S7: and you think, no, no, God wants me to have 513 00:28:30,580 --> 00:28:34,340 S7: it all together. Those are the main two. Now the 514 00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:38,140 S7: third one, disorganized detachment, is when we have. I've seen 515 00:28:38,140 --> 00:28:40,740 S7: it a lot when we have one parent who leans 516 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:45,780 S7: on one end who's like overly, um, maybe enmeshed or intrusive, 517 00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:49,700 S7: and the other parent is just checked out. Um, and 518 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:51,420 S7: that's what I've seen a lot. And so then you 519 00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:57,220 S7: have those two misperceptions of God together. And so, you know, 520 00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:59,459 S7: you don't know if God is is going to be 521 00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:01,580 S7: upset with you one day or if he's going to 522 00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:02,540 S7: be happy with you. 523 00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:05,560 S1: Yeah, Exactly. I call it The Lady or the Tiger 524 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,240 S1: based on that old story. I mean, you're never quite 525 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,880 S1: sure what kind of a response you're going to get, 526 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,880 S1: which is so interesting. You know, the more you talk, 527 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,400 S1: the more I realize the power of a parent. It 528 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,520 S1: toughest job in the world. You're not elected. You're appointed 529 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,720 S1: to that job. It is on the job training. And 530 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,920 S1: as my mama used to say, you are a parent 531 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,800 S1: until the day they put you in the ground and 532 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,560 S1: to stop and think. As a parent, I don't know 533 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,320 S1: about any other parent out there, but it takes your 534 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440 S1: breath away to think, oh merciful heavens, I could have 535 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,120 S1: either drawn my child closer to the Lord or based 536 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,800 S1: on the way in which I parented, I could have 537 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,520 S1: pushed them away from the Lord or made them anxious 538 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,680 S1: about their relationship with the Lord, or made them feel 539 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,360 S1: that God was distant. I mean, it's bad enough to 540 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,720 S1: think that you've made mistakes as a parent and not 541 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,400 S1: to file. Ladies and gentlemen, here's the headline of the 542 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,200 S1: day no perfect parents. Now take a deep breath and relax. 543 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080 S1: But there is a perfect parent, and his name is God. 544 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,960 S1: So when we realize what parents can do, particularly in 545 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,960 S1: what you do and the work that God has called 546 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,380 S1: you to, how do you restore the damage, the bruising 547 00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:05,620 S1: that's taking place so often unintentionally. It's just, you know, 548 00:30:05,660 --> 00:30:07,700 S1: the old adage you parent the way you were parented. 549 00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,340 S1: So generations of the way people were parented tend to 550 00:30:10,380 --> 00:30:13,420 S1: get passed down. But what I want is to secure 551 00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:16,500 S1: relationship with a God who never stops loving me and 552 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,180 S1: loves me. Period. Not comma. A bunch of prepositions if, when, 553 00:30:20,180 --> 00:30:23,220 S1: but but period. How do you break through the damage 554 00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:24,860 S1: of the past to get to that place? 555 00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:28,540 S7: I love that, and you know, you touched on it 556 00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:32,100 S7: a little bit earlier and that is going to the 557 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,300 S7: Word of God. We have to go to the Word 558 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:36,700 S7: of God. And this is not just being hyper spiritual. 559 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:37,740 S8: This is critical. 560 00:30:37,820 --> 00:30:43,060 S7: Because because God created us with billions of nerve cells 561 00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:46,740 S7: that are actively working to make new connections in our brain. 562 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:50,940 S7: So the more truth you learn about these important these topics, 563 00:30:51,140 --> 00:30:54,300 S7: the more just for example, in my life, the more 564 00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:57,180 S7: I I read Scripture and I saw that God is 565 00:30:57,180 --> 00:31:00,960 S7: truly faithful. God is loving when God says he's going 566 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:05,440 S7: to do something, he comes through on his promise. What happens? 567 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:10,720 S7: There's a concept in clinical psychology called neuroplasticity. My brain 568 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:16,600 S7: starts renewing the idea in the perspective, its perspective on God. 569 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,440 S7: And that's what renew in our mind is God. When 570 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,600 S7: God gave us that verse, he knew how he created us. 571 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,840 S7: Now it doesn't take one week or two weeks. It 572 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,480 S7: takes persistence. And I mean it takes persistent work. It 573 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,400 S7: takes us approaching God and and establishing that emotional safety. 574 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,440 S7: And it's a it's a multi-step process, but it starts 575 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,080 S7: with getting to know the word of God and establishing 576 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,920 S7: emotional safety. And what I mean by that is just 577 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,160 S7: talk to God about your day. You know, for example, 578 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,080 S7: I can tell him, you know, today I talked to 579 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,160 S7: a Janet. Today I did X, Y, and Z. We 580 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,160 S7: don't have to approach God with only big matters. Practice 581 00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:00,650 S7: talking to him about your day to day, and that 582 00:32:00,650 --> 00:32:03,770 S7: helps let your guard down. That's that's the first step. 583 00:32:03,810 --> 00:32:05,690 S1: Oh, can we linger here because this is such a 584 00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:08,890 S1: good point. You know, again, I think so often we 585 00:32:08,890 --> 00:32:13,050 S1: adhere to tradition and ritual as opposed to the breathing 586 00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:16,210 S1: aspects of the Word of God. It is a relationship 587 00:32:16,210 --> 00:32:21,730 S1: predicated on love. That's the cornerstone of everything about Christianity, 588 00:32:21,770 --> 00:32:25,730 S1: a relationship built on love. So I love the idea 589 00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:27,850 S1: about talking to him. You know, I, I have this 590 00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:29,930 S1: saying that in my life. Well, I'll say amen at 591 00:32:29,930 --> 00:32:32,330 S1: the end of my prayers. I know that the final 592 00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:34,730 S1: amen is stated in his presence. So talking to him 593 00:32:34,730 --> 00:32:36,890 S1: all day long about all kinds of things. Lord, I'm 594 00:32:36,890 --> 00:32:39,770 S1: feeling anxious right now. Lord, I'm worried about this. Lord, 595 00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:43,730 S1: thank you for this Lord and that constant ongoing communication. 596 00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:45,729 S1: That's what I would do to a human being I 597 00:32:45,730 --> 00:32:48,410 S1: wanted to develop a relationship with. It seems to me 598 00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:51,450 S1: that there might be some emotional, mental and spiritual health 599 00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:54,690 S1: and having that ongoing conversation with my father as well, 600 00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:57,230 S1: without thinking, ritualistic. Oh no, no, no, wait a minute. 601 00:32:57,270 --> 00:32:59,310 S1: You know he's the king of all creation. Yes, he 602 00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:02,590 S1: is that. But he's also ABBA, father. And therein lies 603 00:33:02,590 --> 00:33:05,270 S1: the friction, I think we think that we can't have 604 00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:07,830 S1: an intimate relationship with the King of creation. Those are 605 00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:09,990 S1: like one of these things is not like the other, right? 606 00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:15,510 S7: Absolutely, absolutely. We look at it as if he is sovereign. 607 00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:16,910 S7: Then he must be distant. 608 00:33:16,910 --> 00:33:18,670 S8: And that's that's not true. 609 00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:22,670 S7: Absolutely. Yes. That is I mean, you nailed that. And 610 00:33:22,670 --> 00:33:26,910 S7: that is the number one just threshold that we have 611 00:33:26,910 --> 00:33:30,350 S7: to cross. And then after that we have to start 612 00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:35,270 S7: developing transparency. It's it's so we can't we can't go 613 00:33:35,270 --> 00:33:38,470 S7: from giving our lives to Jesus or just being so 614 00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:41,310 S7: closed off with God to saying, okay, I'm just going 615 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:43,910 S7: to develop a healthy attachment with him in one week. No, 616 00:33:43,910 --> 00:33:46,790 S7: it takes time for your brain to for your nervous 617 00:33:46,790 --> 00:33:50,310 S7: system to calm down around God. And you mentioned something 618 00:33:50,350 --> 00:33:54,810 S7: earlier about intimacy. You know, there is something that I 619 00:33:54,850 --> 00:33:57,970 S7: have have asked my patients to do, and I try 620 00:33:58,010 --> 00:34:00,170 S7: to do it as much as I as I can. 621 00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:03,730 S7: Every morning, first thing in the morning, instead of waking 622 00:34:03,730 --> 00:34:07,810 S7: up and checking our emails and and skyrocketing our dopamine, 623 00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:11,050 S7: the first thing we can do is just take five 624 00:34:11,050 --> 00:34:13,810 S7: minutes and say, and just thank God for everything that 625 00:34:13,810 --> 00:34:16,049 S7: he has given you. Lord, thank you for my children. 626 00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:17,930 S7: Or Lord, thank you for the roof over my head. 627 00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:20,930 S7: Thank you that I have a bed to sleep on. 628 00:34:20,969 --> 00:34:22,930 S7: Just things like that. And here's the thing we can 629 00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:26,089 S7: always find something to thank God for. Here's why this 630 00:34:26,090 --> 00:34:29,850 S7: is important. As we develop a healthy relationship with God, 631 00:34:30,250 --> 00:34:34,410 S7: as we thank him, our body literally starts in our mind, 632 00:34:34,450 --> 00:34:38,530 S7: starts bringing to mind things that we are grateful for, 633 00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:41,969 S7: and our body releases serotonin. And that's the happy hormone. 634 00:34:42,130 --> 00:34:45,890 S7: So our body from a clinical perspective releases serotonin, which 635 00:34:45,890 --> 00:34:50,209 S7: is a natural antidepressant. From a spiritual perspective, the Word 636 00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:53,710 S7: of God says that God his presence inhabits the praises 637 00:34:53,710 --> 00:34:56,870 S7: of his people. And so right there, first thing in 638 00:34:56,870 --> 00:35:00,630 S7: the morning, you're inviting God's presence into your day. So 639 00:35:00,670 --> 00:35:03,069 S7: rather than checking our emails and I know, I know, 640 00:35:03,070 --> 00:35:03,910 S7: it's so hard. 641 00:35:05,070 --> 00:35:07,030 S8: To invite God's presence first thing. 642 00:35:07,950 --> 00:35:10,790 S1: But I love the fact that you pointed out the physiology. I, 643 00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:13,350 S1: in fact, I just think just bigger picture, wide angle 644 00:35:13,350 --> 00:35:15,710 S1: lens for a minute. I love it when science affirms 645 00:35:15,710 --> 00:35:17,950 S1: what the Bible has already told us. And I think 646 00:35:17,950 --> 00:35:20,270 S1: the best mental health book out there is the Word 647 00:35:20,270 --> 00:35:23,030 S1: of God. So this idea of being anxious for nothing, 648 00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:26,310 S1: but with prayer and supplication and thanksgiving, you just gave 649 00:35:26,310 --> 00:35:29,189 S1: us an example of early morning thanksgiving prayers. Let your 650 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:31,790 S1: requests be made known unto God. Not only am I 651 00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:34,790 S1: stepping into obedience from a loving father who tells me 652 00:35:34,830 --> 00:35:39,710 S1: about my relationship with him, but my brain is being rewired. 653 00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:42,430 S1: I'm releasing the good stuff in my body. I mean, 654 00:35:42,469 --> 00:35:45,910 S1: all of the facts that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. 655 00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:48,509 S1: I think we do ourselves a disservice by just narrowing 656 00:35:48,550 --> 00:35:51,440 S1: applying that to the pro-life movement. 100%. It should be 657 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,080 S1: applied there. But the magnificence of who we are and 658 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,520 S1: how God made us is almost beyond human comprehension. Just 659 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,920 S1: starting the day with thanksgiving begins to change who you 660 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,239 S1: are physiologically, emotionally, mentally, and most assuredly spiritually. You know 661 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,359 S1: the book. This latest book that Kent has authored is 662 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,600 S1: called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. 663 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,479 S1: It's a small book. I haven't scratched the surface. So 664 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:30,719 S1: small but mighty I would say. More after this. Can 665 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,240 S1: Tzaddik is with us. Christian author, licensed professional counselor, board 666 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,759 S1: certified counselor, co-owner of Oceanic Counseling Group in South Carolina 667 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,520 S1: along with her husband. The latest book that she's authored, 668 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,719 S1: Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 669 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,080 S1: I meant what I said just before the break. Small 670 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,239 S1: but mighty. There is so much in here. And this 671 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,020 S1: is this is a crucial issue. Kenzie, you probably know 672 00:36:51,020 --> 00:36:53,060 S1: this more than me. This is just me, batter and 673 00:36:53,060 --> 00:36:56,500 S1: bruised and my years of walking the Pilgrim's Progress path. 674 00:36:56,660 --> 00:36:59,660 S1: But so many people, if their relationship with their earthly 675 00:36:59,660 --> 00:37:01,859 S1: dad was good, that's odds are they got a great 676 00:37:01,860 --> 00:37:04,860 S1: relationship with their Heavenly Father. If they've got any kinds 677 00:37:04,860 --> 00:37:09,739 S1: of problems, it keeps them far away, close distance, fearful. 678 00:37:09,780 --> 00:37:12,219 S1: I mean, it's just so sad because it can be 679 00:37:12,219 --> 00:37:14,100 S1: so much richer and so much better. You point out 680 00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:16,620 S1: in the book that God is a merciful judge. God 681 00:37:16,620 --> 00:37:18,899 S1: is a faithful friend. God is a loving father. OOP! 682 00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:21,220 S1: Let me hit the brakes right there. You said something. 683 00:37:21,219 --> 00:37:23,140 S1: I want to underscore again that this isn't a two 684 00:37:23,140 --> 00:37:26,580 S1: week crash course. This can be a lifetime of having 685 00:37:26,620 --> 00:37:31,380 S1: to repair and rebuild and restore. If your daddy wasn't loving, 686 00:37:31,380 --> 00:37:34,060 S1: your earthly daddy wasn't loving, how in the world can 687 00:37:34,060 --> 00:37:36,219 S1: you even begin to conceptualize what it means to have 688 00:37:36,219 --> 00:37:38,580 S1: a Heavenly Father as being loving? 689 00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:44,940 S9: Yes, yes. So it goes back to. 690 00:37:44,980 --> 00:37:49,120 S7: Spending time with God and just investing that time with 691 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,200 S7: him because it's going. Listen, it's going to be scary 692 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,400 S7: in the beginning. I can tell you from experience. There 693 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,280 S7: were many times when I was trying to practice transparency 694 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,560 S7: with God, just picking one thing that was weighing me down, 695 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,279 S7: for example, whether it was shame from my past or 696 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,200 S7: a burden I was carrying and talking to God about it. 697 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,319 S7: And Janet, I mean, I am embarrassed to say that 698 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,520 S7: it took years because there were times when I would 699 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,440 S7: tell him and then I would wait for like, something 700 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,919 S7: to strike me down or someone. I mean, I was 701 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,320 S7: so scared. That's how petrified I was of God. And 702 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,440 S7: so but by practicing and and just talking to him, 703 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,719 S7: I started feeling seen and feeling heard and truly appropriating 704 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,880 S7: God's Word. You know, when he says that he delights 705 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,319 S7: over us with singing, that he. 706 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,399 S8: Loves us with. 707 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,480 S7: Everlasting love, but see some. In the beginning those words 708 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:45,820 S7: were just going in one ear and out the other, 709 00:38:45,820 --> 00:38:49,660 S7: until I took a step of faith and started sharing 710 00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:52,740 S7: my heart with him. And and I know that he 711 00:38:52,739 --> 00:38:57,180 S7: knows it already. But it's so important that we that 712 00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:59,460 S7: we talk to him and share our hearts with him, 713 00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:03,940 S7: because that's how over time, we learn to to discern 714 00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:08,380 S7: his presence and just and just feel seen and heard. 715 00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:11,580 S1: Yeah. Amen. And the transparency is such a key, you know, 716 00:39:11,620 --> 00:39:14,420 S1: he's God. We are not. He already knows. So what 717 00:39:14,420 --> 00:39:17,339 S1: do we think we're hiding from God? It's so. He 718 00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:20,460 S1: must laugh at us so many times thinking, I'm God, 719 00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:23,020 S1: I know you. I knew you before time began. Alright? 720 00:39:23,020 --> 00:39:25,939 S1: I know exactly what's going on. You know, you write 721 00:39:25,940 --> 00:39:28,739 S1: that God pursues us. He calls us to himself. He 722 00:39:28,739 --> 00:39:31,700 S1: redeems us. He welcomes us in our mess. He gives 723 00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:34,020 S1: us worth that no one can ever take away from us. 724 00:39:34,020 --> 00:39:35,779 S1: I love the way you wrote that and then gave 725 00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:38,540 S1: scripture for every single one of those. But here's the 726 00:39:38,540 --> 00:39:41,780 S1: amazing part there's not a single mortal, not your husband 727 00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:44,469 S1: to you. Not my husband to To me, no mortal 728 00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:47,430 S1: can do this. As much as we might love our spouse. 729 00:39:47,469 --> 00:39:51,149 S1: God loves us in a deeper, broader Romans talks about this. 730 00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:53,669 S1: You know, the magnificence of God, the width, the depth, 731 00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:56,469 S1: the breadth. So it really, when you think about it, 732 00:39:56,469 --> 00:39:59,029 S1: I've got a mortal mind. I'm trying to comprehend the 733 00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:02,630 S1: utterly incomprehensible. And for some people, it's like I have 734 00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:05,230 S1: that's mental, emotional and spiritual fatigue. I can't I can't 735 00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:07,710 S1: even go to that exercise because it's too big for 736 00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:10,469 S1: me to comprehend. Give a word of encouragement to people 737 00:40:10,469 --> 00:40:11,989 S1: who have thought that, because I know that there are 738 00:40:11,989 --> 00:40:13,989 S1: people who throw in the towel before they even run 739 00:40:13,989 --> 00:40:17,469 S1: the race because they're thinking, I can't, I don't, I don't, 740 00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:20,350 S1: I'm afraid I can't trust, I don't know, real love. 741 00:40:20,350 --> 00:40:23,710 S1: And I'm supposed to believe this unseen God loves me, 742 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:26,950 S1: pursues me, calls me to himself. I don't know, it's 743 00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:28,670 S1: just too big for me to comprehend. What would you 744 00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:29,510 S1: say to that person? 745 00:40:30,350 --> 00:40:34,910 S7: I would say it goes back to feeling unworthy of it. 746 00:40:34,910 --> 00:40:38,549 S7: And here's the great thing that I've had to learn 747 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:42,210 S7: in my pride putting my pride down. None of us 748 00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:44,770 S7: are worthy of it. And that's the great thing. Because 749 00:40:44,770 --> 00:40:47,210 S7: if we were, then we would have to maintain it. 750 00:40:47,969 --> 00:40:50,290 S7: None of us were worthy of it to begin with. 751 00:40:50,330 --> 00:40:53,770 S7: He's just a loving God. He's a loving father. I mean, 752 00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:57,250 S7: even Romans 832 said he didn't spare his own son. 753 00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:59,810 S7: He delivered him up for us all. And so how 754 00:40:59,810 --> 00:41:01,930 S7: can he not also with him give us all things? 755 00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:06,490 S7: And so he loved you that much, and he loves 756 00:41:06,489 --> 00:41:08,690 S7: you that much. And he loves me that much. He 757 00:41:08,730 --> 00:41:13,450 S7: continuously pursues us. And a lot of times also, it 758 00:41:13,489 --> 00:41:17,450 S7: comes down to not being willing to process through pain 759 00:41:17,450 --> 00:41:21,370 S7: that we still don't understand with God. And I would say, 760 00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:24,529 S7: go to him and talk to him about that pain. 761 00:41:24,570 --> 00:41:28,490 S7: Is he going to give you a reason why it happened? Maybe. 762 00:41:28,489 --> 00:41:31,969 S7: Maybe not. But what you'll come out with is peace 763 00:41:31,969 --> 00:41:35,209 S7: that surpasses understanding. Because he is the Prince of Peace. 764 00:41:35,210 --> 00:41:37,850 S7: He knows how he made your heart. He knows how 765 00:41:37,850 --> 00:41:41,270 S7: to pick up every piece and put it together in 766 00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:44,190 S7: his presence. Because at the end of the day, when 767 00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:46,830 S7: we're in the midst of his presence, reading His word 768 00:41:46,830 --> 00:41:51,150 S7: and seeing just how faithful he is, nothing else matters. 769 00:41:51,310 --> 00:41:54,510 S1: Amen and amen. Years ago, I wrote in my Bible 770 00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:58,589 S1: because this goes directly to the point you were just making. Lord, 771 00:41:58,870 --> 00:42:02,590 S1: help me to trust you when I cannot see your hand. 772 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:05,270 S1: But I can always trust your heart. So this goes 773 00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:08,270 S1: to this idea of letting him lead. You know there 774 00:42:08,310 --> 00:42:10,230 S1: is a trust element there. You know, if you look 775 00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:13,229 S1: back and you've got brokenness in your relationship with your 776 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:17,189 S1: attachment with other mortals, and you're trying to build this 777 00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:21,190 S1: relationship with the great King Immortal himself, there has to 778 00:42:21,230 --> 00:42:23,589 S1: be there might be brokenness that takes a long time 779 00:42:23,590 --> 00:42:26,069 S1: to repair, but there has to be an element of trust. 780 00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:28,750 S1: How do we start to practice trusting him? 781 00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:33,989 S7: Absolutely. So it's going to be step by step. And 782 00:42:33,989 --> 00:42:37,069 S7: just remember this God is not going to throw in 783 00:42:37,110 --> 00:42:41,570 S7: the towel on you. I feel like sometimes we superimpose 784 00:42:41,610 --> 00:42:43,130 S7: our own beliefs also. 785 00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:43,530 S8: Because. 786 00:42:43,570 --> 00:42:46,049 S7: We're willing to give up on ourselves. We think, you 787 00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:48,290 S7: know what? God who is sovereign, is going to give 788 00:42:48,290 --> 00:42:50,570 S7: up on me. God will never give up on you 789 00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:53,410 S7: if you're tired. Tell him I'm tired. If you're anxious, 790 00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:55,530 S7: tell him I'm anxious and I need you. 791 00:42:56,410 --> 00:43:00,009 S1: Yeah. Amen and amen. Wow. Quickly. Toward the end, you 792 00:43:00,010 --> 00:43:03,009 S1: talk about learning to discern God's leading in our life. 793 00:43:03,010 --> 00:43:03,890 S1: How do we do that? 794 00:43:04,730 --> 00:43:10,490 S7: Yes. Pay attention if you're being pulled in a particular direction. Um. 795 00:43:10,489 --> 00:43:14,370 S7: Or if you have peace about your decision. Anywhere God 796 00:43:14,370 --> 00:43:18,410 S7: is leading you for sure, make sure it it does 797 00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:21,650 S7: not contradict his word, but also watch for your shift 798 00:43:21,650 --> 00:43:24,130 S7: in circumstances. A lot of times we don't want to 799 00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:25,690 S7: move until God moves us. 800 00:43:25,969 --> 00:43:29,529 S1: Yeah, exactly. Isn't that the truth? Wow. Kenza, I'm. It 801 00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:32,090 S1: isn't just empty words. I cannot tell you how powerful 802 00:43:32,130 --> 00:43:34,969 S1: this small book is. It's just wonderful. And I have 803 00:43:34,969 --> 00:43:37,980 S1: to tell you, it's one of those cornerstone books, because 804 00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:41,700 S1: if you do not feel a secure, healthy attachment to God, 805 00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:44,940 S1: that's okay. There's some brokenness there. Now, what do you 806 00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:47,980 S1: do to get through that so that you can experience 807 00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:52,260 S1: the great, merciful, loving, righteous God that is our Heavenly Father? 808 00:43:52,460 --> 00:43:54,780 S1: I really want to encourage you in my classroom, everybody 809 00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:57,100 S1: would be required to read this because if you came 810 00:43:57,100 --> 00:43:59,900 S1: to have give us life and to give it abundantly, 811 00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:03,180 S1: I think certainly that has to understand the abundant relationship 812 00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:05,500 S1: we can have with the living God himself. So check 813 00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:08,180 S1: it out. I've got all the information on my website 814 00:44:08,180 --> 00:44:12,820 S1: in the market with Janet Parshall, just below the program description. 815 00:44:12,820 --> 00:44:15,420 S1: There's a box, it says program details and audio. The 816 00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:17,380 S1: box is read. Clicking on it takes you to the 817 00:44:17,380 --> 00:44:20,500 S1: information page. A longer bio for kids, a beautiful picture 818 00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:23,219 S1: of Kenza, a direct link to her website and on 819 00:44:23,219 --> 00:44:25,260 S1: the right hand side, the book we've been talking about. 820 00:44:25,260 --> 00:44:28,860 S1: Secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. Kenza. 821 00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:31,700 S1: Thank you for a fabulous conversation. Thank you friends, we'll 822 00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:32,500 S1: see you next time.