S1: Is the gospel really able to penetrate the world of Islam?
S1: You ever wonder what's actually happening in the Muslim world,
S1: particularly in the Middle East? Well, Todd Nettleton was just there.
S1: And on today's program, he shares firsthand accounts. You'll hear
S1: true stories of Muslims turning to Christ against all odds,
S1: stories to encourage you and motivate you to pray. That's
S1: all ahead on today's edition of The Land and the book. Welcome.
S1: I'm John Gager, checking in with our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer.
S1: You all set for Thanksgiving, Charlie?
S2: John, I am ready for Thanksgiving. Our daughter and son
S2: in law are coming in from London, so we are.
S2: We're excited.
S1: All right, that sounds fun. Well, at the end of
S1: the year approaches, many world events have left us wondering
S1: what God's plan is for the future. This is especially
S1: true when it comes to Israel. Despite its small size,
S1: people around the world are intensely focused on what takes place.
S1: There are today's headlines connected. We wonder in any way
S1: with prophecies in the Bible and and how should followers
S1: of Jesus interpret current events as we await his second coming?
S2: And to help answer these important questions, our friends at
S2: Life and Messiah urge you to check out their new book, God, Israel,
S2: and Bible Prophecy with Scripture as its foundation. This book
S2: will take you on a journey into what God has
S2: in store for the Jewish people and the nations. This
S2: book is for anyone who wants to explore where modern
S2: day events fit on God's grand timeline. Now, if that's
S2: you or someone you know, this would be a great
S2: resource or gift. Visit Life in messiah.org and click on
S2: the Moody Radio button there to find out how you
S2: can receive your copy of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy.
S2: That's life in messiah.org.
S1: And now a look at current events from the Middle
S1: East region all unfolding as we speak. Story number one,
S1: recent reports suggest a possible cease fire agreement between Israel
S1: and Hezbollah might be near. How reliable are these predictions
S1: of an imminent halt to the fighting in Lebanon?
S2: Well, the cease fire hasn't yet materialized, though apparently Lebanon
S2: and Hezbollah both responded positively to the initial draft. In
S2: the meantime, Israel is trying to force Hezbollah into submission.
S2: They've attacked Hezbollah's strongholds throughout Lebanon, leveling buildings, taking out
S2: missile launchers and supply depots, and killing senior leadership. Israel's
S2: goal is to force Hezbollah to agree to fully implement
S2: UN Security Resolution 1701, which includes moving their fighters north
S2: of the Litani River and away from Israel's border. They
S2: want southern Lebanon demilitarized, except for the Lebanese Army and
S2: the UN forces, and they reserve the right to go
S2: back in if Hezbollah tries to rearm. In the meantime,
S2: Hezbollah is still trying to harm Israel economically and militarily.
S2: They fired thousands of rockets, missiles and drones over the
S2: past year, forcing 60,000 Israelis to abandon their homes. Service
S2: time for Israeli reservists in the military has now reached
S2: an average of 136 days per year, putting a great
S2: strain on Israel's economy. It's also increased tensions between secular
S2: Israelis and the ultra-Orthodox who refuse to serve in the army.
S2: I think right now all sides would like the conflict
S2: in the north to end, but each one wants to
S2: do it in a way that allows them to claim victory.
S1: Story number two. Discord and dissension within Israel is once
S1: again bubbling to the surface. You mentioned the tension over
S1: drafting the ultra-Orthodox into the army, but help us untangle
S1: all the other disputes fracturing the country.
S2: Oh, yeah. John, we know how divided our country is politically.
S2: After this last election, and with just two major parties,
S2: though it's a small country, Israel has far more fracture lines.
S2: The Likud party of Prime Minister Netanyahu. The ones that
S2: are leading the coalition now can be characterized as conservative
S2: and nationalistic. They believe Israel should encompass all the land
S2: of the Jewish people, including Judea and Samaria. And they're
S2: not necessarily overly religious, but they do believe in Jewish
S2: traditions and culture. A slightly smaller group, represented by Benny
S2: Gantz and the National Unity Party, are similar to Likud
S2: in their focus on strong national defense, but they're more
S2: secular and lean more to the left on social issues.
S2: A third group are the secular Israelis. They tend to
S2: be younger and are more like the progressive wing of
S2: the Democratic Party here. Up until October 7th, many favored
S2: the formation of a Palestinian state. And then there are
S2: the ultra-Orthodox Israelis. They're opposed to having their members serve
S2: in the army, insisting that their primary task is to
S2: study the Talmud and Torah. They see themselves as the
S2: keepers of historic religious Judaism. And still another group are
S2: the Arab-israelis. Most, though not all, are Muslim. Within this
S2: group are various subgroups, some of which strongly oppose the
S2: current government. Now, right now, there are four main issues
S2: dividing the country. First, should the ultra-Orthodox Jews be required
S2: to serve in the army? Second, do the courts need
S2: to be reformed to limit their power? Third, should term
S2: limits be imposed on the Prime Minister? And then finally,
S2: what kind of state should Israel ultimately be? A liberal
S2: secular state, or one with roots in Jewish law and tradition?
S2: Here's just one example should buses run on Saturdays? Those
S2: are the kind of things that are dividing the country.
S2: And the main fracture lines now pit liberal and secular
S2: Jews against conservative, nationalistic Jews. And then add in the
S2: ultra-Orthodox and the Arab-israelis, and you have an incredibly fractured country.
S1: Charlie, wouldn't it be true, statistically, though, that the liberal
S1: secular Jews would vastly outnumber the conservative Jews in Israel,
S1: the liberals?
S2: Well, I say it this way the secular Jews outnumber
S2: the religious Jews, though the religious Jews are growing. However,
S2: within the secular group, there's a growing conservative movement in
S2: Israel because of especially the events in October 7th. And
S2: right now, in elections, they still outnumber the liberal Jews.
S1: This is the land in the book from Moody Radio.
S1: We're working through a list of current events, stories from
S1: the past week. President elect Trump doesn't assume office until January,
S1: but he's already influencing events in the Middle East. What
S1: impact is he having on the different conflicts between Israel,
S1: Iran and the Palestinian Authority?
S2: The main impact so far focuses on the perceived difference
S2: between the previous administration and President Trump, as one observer
S2: put it. The perception in the Middle East is that
S2: both President Obama and President Biden were unwilling to project
S2: power and confront adversaries in the region. They knew how
S2: to speak out forcefully, but that was it. The latest
S2: example this week was a proposed UN Security Council resolution
S2: forcing Israel to withdraw from Gaza. As that vote approached,
S2: Israel didn't know if President Biden would side with them
S2: and veto it or allow it to pass, harming them. Now,
S2: contrast that with President Trump's first term. He ended the
S2: nuclear agreement with Iran, increased the sanctions on Iran, moved
S2: the US embassy to Jerusalem, and officially recognized the Golan
S2: Heights as part of Israel. Several of Trump's announced appointees,
S2: including Mike Huckabee as ambassador, have suggested Trump will again
S2: be following up his words with strong actions when it
S2: comes to implementing policy. It's interesting to see how the
S2: different countries are responding. Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas has
S2: been reaching out to president elect Trump through the Lebanese-American
S2: father in law of Trump's daughter. Abbas wants to have
S2: President Trump push for peace between the Palestinians and Israel
S2: based on a two state solution. He remembers Trump's funding
S2: cuts in response to the Palestinian rejection of a deal
S2: during Trump's first term. For its part, Israel is encouraged
S2: by statements made by Huckabee and others suggesting Trump might
S2: even be open to allowing Israel to annex the West Bank,
S2: the area they would call Judea and Samaria. They're also
S2: encouraged by statements suggesting the US will not handcuff Israel
S2: to keep them from responding to Iranian attacks. Iran, at
S2: least now, is keeping a lower profile, though they've reportedly
S2: promised they won't try to assassinate Trump. It will be
S2: interesting to see how all this plays out once Trump
S2: assumes office in January.
S1: A recent article in The Jerusalem Post reported that scientists
S1: have unlocked the secret of A3000 year old tablet that
S1: reveals the path to Noah's Ark. So is this report
S1: fact or fiction?
S2: It sounds like something out of Hollywood, doesn't it? I'd
S2: love for this report to be true, but I really
S2: have doubts. The story claimed that scientists have unlocked the
S2: secrets of the world's oldest map, revealing the location of
S2: Noah's Ark. But this so-called map is really just a
S2: clay tablet on display in the British Museum. The tablet
S2: shows Babylon and the Euphrates River and identifies eight outlying
S2: regions representing the then known world. On the reverse side,
S2: it describes, in broken and largely unintelligible paragraphs, apparent distances
S2: and directions to these regions. It also identifies animals and
S2: gods connected to the Babylonian account of creation along with
S2: their account of the flood, but the text mentions Urartu,
S2: which the authors suggest is a reference to Mount Ararat.
S2: Now Urartu is in the general region of Ararat, but
S2: it takes a great leap in logic to assume the
S2: text is really referring to the mountain and pointing to
S2: the location of the ark. The tablet dates to the
S2: late 600 seconds BC, at the time of the Babylonian Empire.
S2: The flood happened at least 700 years earlier, now I believe.
S2: Noah's Ark did exist, but you won't find it using
S2: that so-called map.
S1: We got time for one final story here. Tell us
S1: about the rain that fell in Israel this past week, Charlie.
S2: Yeah. You know, rain in Israel is a blessing. And
S2: Israel was blessed this past week. They experienced, in fact,
S2: record breaking rain along the northern coast. In one town
S2: on Mount Carmel, just under eight inches of rain fell
S2: in four hours. That's 60% of that area's average annual rainfall.
S2: On Tuesday and Wednesday, the rain soaked the coastal area,
S2: along with central and northern Israel, and some rain extended
S2: down into the Shfela and into the Judean Desert around
S2: the Dead Sea. It's the first major rainfall of the season,
S2: and they're hoping it will be followed by much more
S2: over the coming months.
S1: Charlie, what do we know about the progress of desalination
S1: plants that have been worked on for several years now?
S2: Well, they have five desalination plants up and running and
S2: working on some others. So right now Israel is water self-sufficient.
S2: In fact, they're drawing very little to any water from
S2: the Sea of Galilee, but they're hoping to be able
S2: to provide even more water that they could then use
S2: in foreign relations with some of the nations, like Jordan.
S1: All right. Sounds good. Thank you for that update on
S1: current events. We're looking forward to a conversation with Todd Nettleton,
S1: who takes us inside the Muslim world. Stories of Muslims
S1: turning to Christ against all odds. If it's been a
S1: while since you've been to our website, check it out.
S1: It's at the Land and the book.org, the land and
S1: the Book org. We're going Inside the Muslim World with
S1: Todd Nettleton next on the land and the book. When
S1: it comes to trouble, there is no place quite like
S1: the Middle East. It is just laced with trouble and tension.
S1: And this last year in particular, we have heard so
S1: much about the Middle East. But did you know that
S1: the Middle East is also where God is doing many
S1: great things, and he's doing a surprising amount of those
S1: things among Muslim people. This is the land and the book.
S1: Segment two. I'm John Gager. Before we jet off to
S1: the Middle East, let's pause for a creative idea on
S1: reaching out to the Muslim friends that God has placed
S1: in our path here at home. You and I, when
S1: we come to any conversation, including a conversation with our
S1: Jewish friends, have a certain perspective. We bring we and they,
S1: Josh and Rachelle Norman, are here to help us understand
S1: how those perspectives contribute or maybe cause trouble in our dialogue. Josh, one.
S3: Of the great objections to believing in Jesus is the
S3: Holocaust and the Crusades. And they say, If Jesus is
S3: your Messiah. If Yeshua is your Messiah, then how can
S3: he in his name? Many things happen and you know
S3: there's really no one solid answer we can throw out
S3: there and everything will be fine. It's humbly accepting the
S3: fact that you know what things have been done in
S3: the name of Yeshua, but that's not who he is,
S3: and he is somebody who loves you, somebody who died
S3: for you, who atoned for you. And it is a
S3: very Jewish thing.
S4: And when a Christian is able to show that to
S4: their Jewish friend, it really opens a lot of doors
S4: very quickly. Even if it's a shorter relationship, you're not
S4: going to be with them a long time or it's
S4: in passing at work. It opens a lot of doors
S4: to a real open relationship.
S1: Give me another example of a perspective that I might
S1: have or my Jewish friend might have. That could potentially
S1: be a brick wall. Josh.
S3: Well, I would say that, um, you're not converting if
S3: you become a believer in Messiah, you're still Jewish because
S3: he found his fulfillment in the Tanakh in the Old Testament.
S3: There's no converting leaving behind your Jewish identity.
S4: I think what Josh is bringing up here, too, is
S4: terminology is really important. Using words like Messiah instead of
S4: Christ is powerful to the Jewish person.
S1: Our conversation today with Josh and Rochelle Norman with Chosen
S1: People Ministries here on the land and the book Todd
S1: Nettleton is vice president of message for the voice of
S1: the martyrs USA and host of the Voice of the
S1: Martyrs Radio. During his more than 25 years of service
S1: with voice of the martyrs, Todd has traveled the world
S1: and conducted face to face interviews with hundreds of Christians
S1: who have suffered persecution in more than 40 nations. He's
S1: been interviewed more than 4000 times, so this will be 4001,
S1: I think. Todd has also written the Moody Publishers book
S1: when Faith Is Forbidden. Recently, he met with Christians in
S1: the Middle East, finding out how God is working in
S1: that part of the world. And we want to say,
S1: welcome back to the land and the book. Todd, thanks.
S5: So much, John. It's good to be with you.
S1: So describe some of the challenges and the circumstances that
S1: many of these brothers and sisters face in daily life.
S5: Well, one of the things about the Islamic context that
S5: most of our brothers and sisters in the Middle East
S5: find themselves is that persecution usually doesn't start with the
S5: police or with the government. It's usually much closer to home.
S5: It starts with your dad. It starts with your big
S5: brother who will come to you and say, listen, we
S5: are a muslim family. We've always been a muslim family.
S5: If you're not a muslim anymore, if you're a follower
S5: of Jesus Christ, you're not really part of our family.
S5: We don't have a spot for you in our family anymore.
S5: And so that is typically the first line of persecution. Now,
S5: that sounds horrible to us here in America. But when
S5: you understand the context of the Middle East, all of
S5: your opportunities in life come through family connections, your opportunity
S5: for education, your opportunity for jobs, your opportunity to get married.
S5: All of that is through connections from your family or
S5: your tribal group. And so being cut off from that
S5: group is being cut off from all of your future,
S5: from all of your opportunities. So it is a very
S5: high price that our brothers and sisters in the Middle
S5: East are paying speak.
S1: To the difference that we have of religion here in
S1: the West, being sort of an optional add on thing,
S1: where over there it's very much woven into every fabric
S1: of your life.
S5: That's absolutely right. You are born a muslim. You are
S5: expected to live your whole life as a muslim and
S5: you will die as a muslim. And in fact, Islam
S5: really kind of runs in your blood. To be Jordanian,
S5: to be a Saudi, to be a Qatari is to
S5: be a muslim. And so when you as one of
S5: those a citizen of one of those nations, you come
S5: and say, well, actually, I'm not a muslim, I'm a
S5: follower of Jesus Christ. There is that that perception. Well,
S5: you've betrayed not only your family, you've betrayed your country.
S5: You've betrayed your ethnicity. It is seen as a complete
S5: turning away from your identity. And so one of the
S5: things that happens is the body of Christ becomes your family.
S5: They become a part of your identity. And pastors and
S5: church leaders in that part of the world, they understand
S5: very well. When I lead someone to Christ, I need
S5: to not just be ready to be their pastor. I
S5: need to be ready to be their father. I need
S5: to be ready for them to sleep on my couch. I,
S5: I need to be ready to provide some help for
S5: them because their families are likely to cut them off,
S5: and the church has to become their family.
S1: You were enrolled in a school of prayer through the
S1: life example of the host that you stayed with. How
S1: do people in the Middle East pray differently than we
S1: do in the West?
S5: Todd You know, we had such an amazing time being
S5: in the Middle East. And our host was, you know,
S5: the Bible verse that says, pray without ceasing. That is
S5: how he lives his life. And so when you roll
S5: up to a checkpoint, you pray, Lord, we're coming up
S5: to a checkpoint. We need your help to make sure
S5: we get through safely. When you have a trial. Hey,
S5: we need to pray. Lord, you need to help us
S5: with this trial. When you meet someone, you offer to
S5: pray for them. When you hear, oh, my wife is
S5: struggling with sickness or oh, I've just lost my job.
S5: The natural response of someone who prays without ceasing is, well, hey,
S5: let me pray for you. And when you pray in
S5: the name of Jesus and then those prayers are answered,
S5: that person has a question in their mind. They want
S5: to come back to you and say, whoa, you prayed
S5: for me. And then that problem got solved. Tell me
S5: more about this Jesus that you prayed to. And so
S5: that is one of the ways the gospel is spreading
S5: is just through bold Christians who are willing to say, hey,
S5: I see that you have a problem, I hear you,
S5: I care about you. Let me pray for you. And
S5: then when Jesus answers those prayers, it plants the seed
S5: of the gospel in that person's heart.
S1: God at work in the Middle East. That's our focus
S1: today on the land and the book as we talk
S1: with Todd Nettleton of Voice of the martyrs, I understand
S1: that you went to two different underground church gatherings. How
S1: would those gatherings differ from what many of us experience
S1: on a Sunday morning?
S5: Well, it was interesting getting in because, you know, there
S5: was a door lock and a gate and a camera
S5: at the gate, and they were checking who was coming
S5: and who was going. But once we got inside, it
S5: actually was very similar to what we experience here in
S5: our church. And honestly, at one point they were singing
S5: so loudly, I was kind of looking around like, hey,
S5: are you sure we shouldn't maybe turn it down a
S5: little bit because, you know, we're not supposed to be here.
S5: This is illegal. And so but they are boldly worshiping
S5: the Lord. And, you know, it's interesting in, in many
S5: of these countries, you have to think that the government
S5: knows at least a little bit of what's going on. Yeah,
S5: it would be impossible for, you know, 85 or 100
S5: people to gather without somebody noticing what's happening. And yet
S5: the governments are in many cases, allowing that to happen. Um,
S5: and there's a there's kind of a little dance. Well,
S5: one of the things we heard is, well, let's be
S5: careful not to shame the government. We don't want to
S5: sort of throw it up in their face what we're doing,
S5: because that would embarrass them, that would shame them, and
S5: then they would feel the need to respond. They would
S5: feel the need to crack down. So let's let's be
S5: careful how we talk about this, and they are careful
S5: as they gather. They don't do it in a public way.
S5: They don't certainly don't put a sign on their church saying, hey,
S5: we have worship services this Friday. Come at noon. They
S5: don't do things like that. And there seems to be
S5: a little bit of balance that is being achieved, at
S5: least in some of the countries where the government says, okay, fine,
S5: you have your meetings, just don't embarrass us as you
S5: have them.
S6: Mm.
S1: Well, that said, there was still a concern, perhaps even
S1: an element of danger in these brothers and sisters being
S1: found out. But what about you and Chas? What if
S1: you had been found at these underground church meetings? What then?
S5: You know, one of the great blessings of having an
S5: American passport is the likelihood is we would be put
S5: on a plane and we would be sent home. They
S5: would tell us not to come back. And don't be
S5: a troublemaker and go on home. I'm always aware, as
S5: I travel into hostile and restricted nations, the danger for
S5: the Christians that I am meeting with is far, far
S5: greater than any danger that I face. Because, you know,
S5: I've got my blue passport and I've got a ticket home.
S5: They're still going to be there, they still are going
S5: to live there, and they will still the government certainly
S5: has access to them to punish them. And so, yeah,
S5: there's a certain amount of danger or worry as we go.
S5: But I always am aware that the danger that they
S5: face is so much greater than anything that we do.
S1: Thanks for connecting with the land and the book today.
S1: If you just joined us, I'm John Gager. Our guest today,
S1: Todd Nettleton of the Voice of the martyrs, just back
S1: from a visit to the Middle East. Well, you mentioned
S1: the idea that some of these believers are praying for
S1: and with their unsaved Muslim friends. What are some other
S1: ways that you would share Jesus in the context that
S1: you were in?
S5: Todd one of the things we heard was how long
S5: of a process it is for a muslim in the
S5: Middle East to really renounce Islam and come to faith
S5: in Jesus Christ. And, you know, we talked about the
S5: fact that they're turning their back on their culture. Their
S5: family is likely to turn their back on them. All
S5: of their future opportunities are cut off. So it's it's
S5: a big decision to make that decision. Okay, fine. I'm
S5: going to follow Jesus. I'm going to leave Islam behind
S5: that typically. And we heard this from multiple Christians. That's
S5: not a one time conversation that we might think of
S5: in the West. Well, you know, I'm going to I'm
S5: going to sit down with my friend. We're going to
S5: walk through the Romans Road. And at the end, I'm
S5: going to bring them to a point of praying a
S5: prayer and choosing to follow Jesus Christ in the Middle East.
S5: We heard stories of how that is often a years
S5: long process. It's not one conversation, it's hundreds of conversations.
S5: And Christians there don't think about sort of bringing people
S5: to a point of decision right now or in the
S5: next half hour. They think about planting a seed and
S5: then planting another seed, maybe months later, maybe even years later,
S5: and then watering the seeds that have been planted, or
S5: watering the seeds that someone else has been able to
S5: plant and in months or years we hope this person
S5: makes a decision to follow Jesus Christ. But it is
S5: very rarely and in fact, I would say almost never.
S5: One conversation or one encounter that leads someone to follow
S5: Jesus out of a muslim background. In the Middle East,
S5: it is typically a years long process of planting and
S5: watering those seeds. And as I mentioned, prayer can be
S5: a big part of that. We had a conversation with
S5: some Muslims there and a Christian friend who was with us.
S5: And one of the things that has happened is our
S5: Christian friend has prayed for these Muslims. He's prayed for
S5: their business to succeed. And since he's done that, they
S5: have noticed that their business has succeeded more than it
S5: did before. And they have actually attached those two things
S5: in their mind like, hey, after you prayed for us,
S5: our business really has taken off. We've really experienced a
S5: lot of success. And so they understand like something happened
S5: when you prayed for us. And so that certainly was
S5: a seed that's been planted. And now our friend is
S5: trying to water that seed. He's trying to follow up
S5: and say, is there is there other things that I
S5: can pray to Jesus for on your behalf because he
S5: wants them to see? Yes. When we pray to Jesus,
S5: things happen. Jesus is the one who answers prayer. And
S5: so that's an example of that sort of planting a seed,
S5: watering a seed, but not thinking in terms of, okay,
S5: you know, we're going to sit down over coffee right
S5: now and I'm going to nail you down and you're
S5: going to make a decision. It really is a long
S5: process in the Middle East.
S1: All right. Another facet of prayer would be our praying
S1: for these people in the Middle East. How could we
S1: pray both for believers there and for those who have
S1: yet to find Jesus?
S5: You know, I think for believers, we obviously we want
S5: to pray for God's protection over them. It can be
S5: very dangerous depending where you are. In the Middle East,
S5: there are family conflicts. There are family that will come
S5: after you. There are police and there are governments that
S5: will come after you as well. So we want to
S5: pray for God's protection. I think we also, though, want
S5: to pray for opportunities to witness as we think about
S5: that long process of planting seeds and watering seeds and
S5: hoping for a harvest. Let's just pray for our Christian
S5: brothers and sisters in the Middle East that that even today,
S5: they get an opportunity to plant a seed. They get
S5: an opportunity to make a difference and to say something
S5: that would lead someone to ask questions or to to
S5: want to know more about Jesus Christ. The other thing
S5: that I would encourage people as we're praying, is to
S5: remember as as Jesus instructed us to pray for the persecutors.
S5: We want to pray for government leaders in the Middle
S5: East to have a radical encounter with Jesus Christ, to
S5: have their hearts transformed by him. We want to pray
S5: for some of these parents or older brothers who are
S5: persecuting new believers. We want to pray for them to
S5: have a dream or a vision where they see Jesus.
S5: And so let's remember also to pray for the enemies
S5: of the gospel as we pray for our brothers and
S5: sisters as well.
S1: Well, those are all great prayer points. Thank you Todd.
S1: I appreciate your time, your insights. Always good to get
S1: up to the minute reports from you, and God bless
S1: you as you continue to travel and speak out on
S1: behalf of the persecuted church.
S5: Thanks so much for having me. I always enjoy our conversations.
S1: Thank you Todd. Hey, I'm looking forward to a look
S1: at some Bible questions that have come in to our
S1: email inbox. That's next on the land and the book. Well,
S1: if your eyeballs are functioning and your brainwaves are at
S1: all alive, when you read the Bible, you bump into questions,
S1: I sure do. Hi, I'm John Gager. This is the
S1: land and the book, and this is the segment that
S1: we devote exclusively to answering your questions about your own thoughts, ruminations,
S1: and puzzlements as you open Scripture for yourself. Doctor Charlie
S1: Dyer's Bible is open. And before we get to our
S1: first question, though, I just want to think about the
S1: fact that as the end of the year approaches, many
S1: world events have left us wondering what God's plan is
S1: for the future. And this is especially true when it
S1: comes to Israel. Despite its small size, people around the
S1: world are just intensely focused, Charlie, on what takes place there,
S1: this tiny little country. So our today's headlines connected in
S1: any way with prophecies in the Bible. And how should
S1: followers of Jesus interpret current events as we await his
S1: second coming?
S2: Those are great questions. And to help answer those important questions,
S2: our friends at Life and Messiah encourage you to check
S2: out their book, God, Israel, and Bible Prophecy with Scripture
S2: as its foundation. This book will take you on a
S2: journey into what God has in store for the Jewish
S2: people and the nations. This book is for anyone who
S2: wants to explore where modern day events fit on God's
S2: grand timeline. If that's you or someone you know, this
S2: would be a great resource or gift. Visit Life in
S2: messiah.org and click on the Moody Radio button to find
S2: out how you can receive your copy of God, Israel
S2: and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: Well, fittingly enough, our first question takes us to the
S1: Old Testament. Teresa wants us to look at numbers ten
S1: one through ten, where the Lord instructs Moses concerning the
S1: blowing of the trumpets at different times and for different reasons.
S1: She says. Verses eight and nine clearly point out this
S1: is a lasting ordinance for the priest to blow the
S1: trumpets when Israel goes into battle in their own land
S1: against an enemy that is oppressing them. My question, she says,
S1: do you know if this happens today during these many
S1: months of war?
S2: Well, we know Israel certainly used the trumpets during their
S2: time in the wilderness, and apparently they also continued to
S2: use them during their festivals. The Temple Mount Faithful group
S2: in Jerusalem have fashioned new silver trumpets for use in
S2: the rebuilt temple. However, as far as I'm able to determine,
S2: modern Israel does not sound trumpets when they go into battle.
S2: Part of the reason could be that the other uses
S2: for the trumpets during feasts, new moon festivals, and all
S2: those others, well, they await the rebuilding of a temple
S2: and the resumption of animal sacrifices and the priestly system.
S2: So I don't believe verse nine is being observed today.
S1: Fran asks, can you please give me your take on
S1: why Jesus and the people of the Bible are depicted
S1: by secular and non-secular media as European and Caucasian?
S2: Yeah, I believe Jesus and other Bible characters are depicted
S2: that way because most European artists through the centuries pictured
S2: the people and the other details in the Bible in
S2: light of their own European experience. So the characters look
S2: European as well as the clothing, the houses, the furnishings.
S2: You know, Da Vinci's Last Supper looks like a European
S2: banquet table, not like a typical low table triclinium where
S2: guests would have been in the time of Jesus. Now,
S2: some other descriptions did come from church tradition, like the
S2: Three Wise Men, but most artists use local models and
S2: then over time, the images they produced became the lens
S2: through which many viewed the Bible stories. Now, lest we
S2: be too hard on them, we tend to do exactly
S2: the same thing as we unconsciously insert biblical characters and
S2: events into locations from our own background, or into what
S2: we envision the scenes and people to have looked like.
S2: I guess that's just because it's human nature, but it's
S2: also maybe a good reason why a trip to Israel
S2: can be incredibly helpful.
S1: Terry takes us to Ephesians chapter one. Verse four tells
S1: us that God chose us in him before the foundation
S1: of the world. I know that Isaiah 55 nine tells
S1: us that his ways are higher than our ways, and
S1: his thoughts than our thoughts. But why would God create
S1: some with a predestination of condemnation? The intersection of free
S1: will and predestination is a puzzle. Yet predestination is referenced
S1: in many places in the New Testament. Any insight?
S2: Yeah, I know the issue of predestination versus free will
S2: is one that I believe extends beyond our ability to
S2: truly comprehend. Yet I do believe both elements are true.
S2: And as you noted, Ephesians one four says, God predestined
S2: us to be adopted as his sons. But I would
S2: make two other observations there. First, it says that it
S2: was in love. He did this. That is, predestination is
S2: connected to God's love, not to condemnation. I personally don't
S2: believe God actively predestined others to be condemned. Romans 512
S2: makes it clear that sin entered the world through one
S2: man and death through sin. So it was Adam's choice
S2: to sin against God, and when he did, it impacted
S2: the spiritual DNA of all humanity. Now, God certainly understood
S2: this was the case, and it became part of his
S2: master plan for the universe. At the same time, his
S2: plan for salvation, including the death of his son, was
S2: also part of that plan. That's why revelation 13 eight
S2: describes Jesus as slain from the creation of the world. Anyway,
S2: my point here is that predestination in Ephesians one four
S2: isn't described as God deciding who goes to heaven and
S2: who goes to hell. Following Adam's sin, all humanity stands
S2: condemned before God, but in his love, God chose some
S2: from among humanity to be adopted as his sons.
S1: This is the land and the book with our host,
S1: Charlie Dyer. I'm John Geiger, enjoying your questions as always.
S1: Here's one from Cara. As I think about how Samuel
S1: worked in the Tabernacle and related to God, I'm curious,
S1: was he serving God in the tabernacle primarily because of
S1: his Nazarite vow and his mother's vow, or also because
S1: of being from the tribe of Levi?
S2: Well, in First Chronicles six, those genealogies that drive us nuts,
S2: they're really important. And in fact, in chapter six, verses
S2: 22 to 28, the writer traces the descendants of the
S2: Kohathites who were part of the tribe of Levi, down
S2: through several generations of individuals named Elkanah, until he reaches
S2: Samuel and his two sons. And the passage makes it
S2: very clear that Samuel and his father Elkanah were from
S2: the tribe of Levi. Through his son Kohath. The problem,
S2: of course, is that in first Samuel one one it
S2: makes it sound as if Samuel's father Elkanah, was from
S2: the tribe of Ephraim, since it says he was from
S2: the hill country of Ephraim. But it's very possible there.
S2: Elkanah is just a Levite. He's from the tribe of Kohath,
S2: and just happened to be living in Ramah of Bethlehem,
S2: which may have become part of the territory of Ephraim,
S2: and assigned to the Levites following the Benjamite civil war.
S2: In the Book of Judges.
S1: Mary asks, was the body Christ had when he appeared
S1: to his disciples the same body that took on powers
S1: because it wasn't subject to earthly decay? Did the risen
S1: Christ have a special body?
S2: Christ's natural body didn't experience decay in the same way
S2: that the bodies of believers who died in Christ over
S2: the years do. And I say that because of acts two.
S2: Peter quotes from Psalm 1610, where David wrote that God
S2: would not let his Holy One, the Messiah, see decay. However,
S2: that's not the reason Jesus was able to appear, disappear,
S2: or demonstrate other miraculous powers following his resurrection. I think
S2: the best answer for that is one Paul gave in
S2: first Corinthians 15. Now here's what he said in part.
S2: He said, some might ask, how are the dead raised?
S2: With what kind of body will they come? The body
S2: that is sown is perishable. It's raised imperishable. It's sown
S2: with dishonor. It's raised in glory. It's sown in weakness.
S2: It's raised in power. It's sown a natural body. It's
S2: raised a spiritual body. And just as we have borne
S2: the likeness of the earthly man Adam, in our bodies,
S2: so we shall bear the likeness of the man from heaven,
S2: that is Jesus. So when we receive our new bodies
S2: at the time of the rapture, we'll receive a body
S2: like the one Jesus now has. I don't know everything
S2: about what that body will be like, but we're assured
S2: that it will be like that of Jesus, and that
S2: means it's going to be pretty amazing.
S1: Kim says, I've noticed in Genesis chapter five that the
S1: descendants of Adam have children much earlier in their lives
S1: than Noah. Is there any biblical understanding of why this
S1: would be the case?
S2: Nothing in the text actually tells us why Noah was
S2: so much older at the time of his son's birth
S2: than his ancestors were, so we can only speculate. It's
S2: possible that Noah and his wife had trouble conceiving that
S2: there are other cases of that in the Bible. It's
S2: also possible that the world situation that was described there
S2: in Genesis six, verses 1 to 7, which is when
S2: Noah lived, caused him to delay getting married and having children.
S2: But the reality is, we don't know why he was
S2: so much older before he and his wife began having children.
S2: I do remember a paper I read in seminary that
S2: compared the ages when children were born, as well as
S2: the total lifespan of those from Adam through the patriarchs.
S2: Though not an exact parabolic curve, the numbers show a
S2: clear pattern of decline for example, the age at which
S2: the first child was born declines until just before the
S2: time of Enoch. It then seems to stabilize until the flood. Now,
S2: following the flood, the age at which children were born
S2: declines again, dropping into the low 30s. In the same way,
S2: the total lifespan of individuals declines slightly, though, staying relatively
S2: constant until the flood, but following the flood, the total
S2: lifespan declines rather markedly. As someone suggested, it's possible the
S2: fall and the entrance of death began to have an
S2: impact on human DNA with the arrival of disease and
S2: other cellular mutations, and then the changing conditions on Earth
S2: following the flood resulted in another dramatic decline. These shorter
S2: lifespans might also account for the desire to have offspring
S2: at an earlier age, but again, these are only possible
S2: suggestions based on what we observe in the text. We're
S2: never told specifically why this is so.
S1: Diane says, I love my Ryrie Study Bible, but I
S1: noticed the notes often refer to Palestine, and I'm now
S1: encountering that term in my Thursday Bible study. When did
S1: that term first get used and by who and why?
S1: Can you help me out here?
S2: Yeah, well, the term Palestine actually came from the time
S2: of the Roman emperor Hadrian, about 100 years after the
S2: time of Jesus. After the second Jewish revolt against Rome,
S2: he renamed the land Philistine land Palestine. And from his
S2: day up until the 20th century, the term Palestine became
S2: a geographical term for the region. Since 1948, especially then
S2: since 1967, though, it took on a more political term
S2: to refer to the Arabs who lived there and who
S2: are not part of the State of Israel. Now, by
S2: using the term, I think in Bibles and Bible atlases. Sadly,
S2: I think it's unfortunate. It's really an anachronism.
S1: And that's today's look at questions and answers. More to
S1: come on the broadcast as Charlie opens his Bible to
S1: bring us a devotional right here on the land and
S1: the book. Everybody loves a parade. There's just something about
S1: getting together, sitting down, watching the floats, the bands, the
S1: people go by. Well, there's a different kind of parade
S1: in store for us as we continue here on the land.
S1: And the book with our host, Charlie Dyer. What's this
S1: all about, Charlie?
S2: Oh, we're going to be having a fun time heading
S2: out to the original Thanksgiving Day parade.
S1: Okay, that's the subject of his devotional that comes after
S1: this Holy Land experience. Testimony. Check it out.
S7: Hello, land in the book friends. Doctor Dyer, I so
S7: enjoyed your devotional last week and it reminded me of
S7: that torrential downpour that I experienced at Megiddo. One of
S7: my favorite places was at Mount Carmel. I was able
S7: to get a better visual of how Elijah was able
S7: to beat Ahab's chariot on foot from that mountain to
S7: the Jezreel Valley below. After defeating the prophets of Baal,
S7: I saw how Ahab's chariot would have had a most
S7: difficult time getting through that muddy mess. I think about
S7: my Israel experience every day as I read God's Word.
S7: Not just the places, but the people as well. It
S7: was amazing to see all the archaeological finds such as
S7: the Capernaum ruins, the church of the Nativity, which sits
S7: upon the cave of Jesus birth, the Dead Sea Scrolls,
S7: just to name a few. And still the majority of
S7: its residents are not believers. I am reminded to pray
S7: for the people of that land, that the scales will
S7: be removed, and that they would accept the Lord Jesus
S7: as their Messiah. What a gift to be a part
S7: of God's story, to walk in a land rich with history,
S7: and the place where God's final victory over Satan will occur.
S7: Thank you Doctor Dyer for the most amazing trip ever.
S7: God bless you all and thank you for your service.
S1: All right. We're headed for Second Chronicles, chapter 20, in
S1: a devotional you've titled Jehoshaphat's Parade. Looking forward to this, Charlie.
S2: Thanks, John. For the past century. Since 1924, Macy's Thanksgiving
S2: Day Parade in New York City has marked the start
S2: of the holiday season. But while the Macy's parade might
S2: be the most well known, it's not the oldest. That
S2: honor belongs to Philadelphia, which held its first Thanksgiving Day
S2: parade four years earlier in 1920. It's actually the oldest
S2: Thanksgiving Day parade in our country, but both of these
S2: Thanksgiving Day parades are eclipsed by the first Thanksgiving Day
S2: parade held in Israel nearly 2800 years earlier. And that
S2: Thanksgiving Day parade was not only the first, it was
S2: also the longest parade in terms of the distance covered.
S2: The parade route extended for nearly 35 miles, and it
S2: included marching bands and choirs and the military. But I'm
S2: getting ahead of myself, so follow me out to the
S2: town of Toccoa for our front row seats, and while
S2: we wait for the parade to arrive, I'll explain how
S2: it started. Toccoa is a small town, but perched up
S2: on this hill. It provides us with a wonderful view
S2: of the roadway below. The road winds its way north
S2: and west, skirting by Bethlehem before heading to Jerusalem. That's
S2: the direction from which the parade will come. Well, then,
S2: the road extends to the right, below us as it
S2: drops into the Judean wilderness. Eventually it reaches Enjeti along
S2: the shores of the Dead Sea. This is the roadway
S2: taken by Ruth and Naomi several hundred years earlier, when
S2: the two returned from Moab to Bethlehem. The origin of
S2: today's parade is actually quite recent. In fact, it all
S2: began just a few days ago, when some men. I'm
S2: not sure if they were travelers or guards or simply
S2: shepherds tending their flocks, but they showed up in Jerusalem.
S2: It's obvious they had been running for some distance because
S2: they were exhausted. They hurried to the palace entrance and
S2: delivered a grim report to King Jehoshaphat. A vast army
S2: is coming against you from Edom, from the other side
S2: of the sea. It is already in Hazon. Tamar. That
S2: is Enjeti. Were we not sitting here in Toccoa, we
S2: might pass over those details without grasping their significance. But
S2: they were not lost on the king or his subjects.
S2: The other details in the report fill in the who, what,
S2: where and when. Who. It's not just one nation coming
S2: to attack Judah. It's a coalition of three nations the Moabites,
S2: the ammonites and the Edomites. These three countries straddled the
S2: eastern side of the Dead Sea. What? These nations have
S2: formed an alliance against Judah and Jerusalem, where they managed
S2: to cross the Dead Sea, possibly at the tongue of
S2: land that extends partway across. And they've now rendezvoused at Engedi,
S2: an oasis at the start of the back door entrance
S2: to Jerusalem, when apparently those reporting saw the armies as
S2: they began gathering at Engedi. It might take the three
S2: armies several days to get organized and finalize their plan
S2: of attack, and then it will take another day or
S2: so to climb the steep pathway up into the wilderness,
S2: and still another day to cross the wilderness and reach Tekoa.
S2: But at that point, they're less than a day from
S2: the gates of Jerusalem. Judah has less than a week
S2: to get ready for this massive invasion. King Jehoshaphat wasted
S2: no time, and his steps to prepare are instructive. First
S2: he resolved to inquire of the Lord. He started by
S2: going to God. Then he proclaimed a fast for all Judah,
S2: and had the people of Judah come together to seek
S2: help from the Lord. People poured into the city from
S2: every town in Judah to seek him. The king led
S2: the people in prayer as he opened his heart to
S2: the Lord. We have no power to face this vast
S2: army that is attacking us. We do not know what
S2: to do, but our eyes are upon you. God sent
S2: a direct message of encouragement and hope through a Levite
S2: who stood up and said, listen, King Jehoshaphat and all
S2: who live in Judah and Jerusalem, this is what the
S2: Lord says to you. Do not be afraid or discouraged
S2: because of this vast army, for the battle is not yours,
S2: but God's. The next day, Jerusalem's ragtag army of minutemen
S2: were to march out to face the attackers, which by
S2: now would likely be ready to climb the cliffs toward
S2: the Judean wilderness. And that's what brings us here today
S2: for Jehoshaphat's Thanksgiving Day Parade. I see the confused look
S2: in your eyes. How is this a Thanksgiving Day parade?
S2: Isn't it more like a panicked mob racing to stop
S2: what must have looked like an invincible army? The word
S2: that would normally come to mind is fear. Not Thanksgiving
S2: at a time like this, isn't it? And that's where
S2: this story takes quite a dramatic turn. We would expect
S2: to see the army of Judah marching below, desperately trying
S2: to reach the overlook before the much larger army was
S2: able to climb up the steep cliffs. But instead we're
S2: watching a parade, and the army is at the back
S2: of the parade, not the front. Here's how the book
S2: of Second Chronicles records what happened next. Early in the morning,
S2: they left for the desert of Tekoa. That's right below us.
S2: As they set out, Jehoshaphat stood and said, listen to me,
S2: Judah and people of Jerusalem have faith in the Lord
S2: your God, and you will be upheld. Have faith in
S2: his prophets and you will be successful. After consulting with
S2: the people, Jehoshaphat appointed men to sing to the Lord
S2: and to praise him for the splendor of his holiness
S2: as they went out at the head of the army, saying,
S2: give thanks to the Lord, for his love endures forever.
S2: And here comes the parade. A large choir with musicians
S2: are leading the procession, with the army following behind. Instead
S2: of shouting war cries trying to psych themselves up for battle,
S2: they're giving thanks to God. And what happened next? As
S2: they began to sing and praise, the Lord set ambushes
S2: against the men of Ammon and Moab and Mount Seir,
S2: who were invading Judah, and they were defeated. Ammon and
S2: Moab turned against the Edomites and attacked them. Then the
S2: Ammonites and Moabites fought each other over the spoil. By
S2: the time the men of Judah came to the place
S2: that overlooks the desert and looked toward the vast army,
S2: they saw only dead bodies lying on the ground. No
S2: one had escaped. As we pick up our folding chairs
S2: and begin to head home, what lessons can we take
S2: with us from Jehoshaphat? Thanksgiving day parade. How about this?
S2: Usually we thank God after he's done something for us.
S2: But Jehoshaphat and the people gave thanks to God before
S2: he had come to their aid. In fact, it was
S2: after they began singing praises to God that he intervened.
S2: Whatever problem you're facing today, pause first and say a
S2: prayer of thanksgiving, praising God for the reality that his
S2: loyal love endures forever. However great your problem might seem,
S2: stop and remember that God's power and his love for
S2: you are infinitely greater. One final detail it's possible the
S2: psalm sung by the procession that just passed below us
S2: was Psalm 136. I say that because the theme of
S2: the entire psalm is the same as the summary verse
S2: recorded by the writer of two Chronicles 20. Psalm 136 begins,
S2: give thanks to the Lord, for he is good. His
S2: love endures forever. In fact, every single verse ends with
S2: his love endures Forever. The psalmist traces God's goodness from
S2: creation through the Exodus and wilderness wanderings and into the conquest.
S2: And he ends by reminding the people that the God
S2: of the past is still present and powerful today. He
S2: is the one who remembered us in our lowest state,
S2: and who freed us from our enemies. And he did
S2: all this because he's the God of heaven. Just remember
S2: to pause and praise God today, for his love endures forever.
S2: And if you have some free time, read Second Chronicles
S2: 20 and Psalm 136. If you do. I'm confident you
S2: will be encouraged.
S1: Thank you Charlie, always refreshing to have you open the
S1: word and take us to a passage there and just
S1: open our eyes to things we maybe haven't thought about. Well,
S1: our time is gone, but I want to thank you, Charlie,
S1: our producer, Dan Anderson, and the management of this station
S1: for carrying the land and the book. We're a production
S1: of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
UU: Have a great day.