1 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:10,080 S1: Are Christians too judgmental? That's one of the main criticisms 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:14,680 S1: both inside and outside the church. You Christians judge everybody else. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,360 S1: You're holier than thou attitude is is off putting. Is 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,119 S1: that a fair criticism? The Christians are too judgmental. I 5 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:26,080 S1: want you to think about that today and filter it 6 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:31,800 S1: through your own experience with other Christians, and then answer this. 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,000 S1: If you've ever had anybody say to you, well, Christians 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,200 S1: shouldn't judge. How do you respond? They use that verse 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,880 S1: from Jesus, judge not, lest ye be judged. They even 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,720 S1: used it in the King James. How do you rightly 11 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,280 S1: divide that directive from Jesus? We're going to talk about 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,120 S1: all that and a whole lot more today here at 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:56,360 S1: the Radio Backyard Fence. This is Chris Fabry live online@chris.org. 14 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,360 S1: This is the program from the heart to the heart 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:00,920 S1: for the heart. Let me thank our team. Ryan McConaughey 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,080 S1: doing all things technical. Lisa is going to be in 17 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,600 S1: the chair today too. Tricia is our producer. Josh will 18 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:07,880 S1: be answering your calls. And I really want to hear 19 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:13,720 S1: your opinion today about our topic of being judgmental. Weigh in. 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,360 S1: If you'd like, go to the website Chris Fabry live.org 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,759 S1: and you will see your opportunity to support the Radio 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,199 S1: Backyard fence. I sent out a back fence post today, 23 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,560 S1: a video for our back fence partners. It's about three 24 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,360 S1: prayers for the new president of Moody. I think it'll 25 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,400 S1: encourage you. It encouraged me and I would love to 26 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:37,520 S1: send you this video to you and the others that 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,720 S1: we produce every week for your viewing enjoyment. I get 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,280 S1: response from people. That was really encouraging. Thank you for 29 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:45,679 S1: doing that. Thank you for pulling back the curtain. If 30 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,920 S1: you give an auto gift of any size each month and, uh, 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:54,880 S1: each of any, any size you choose, then you'll receive 32 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,520 S1: that video. You'll receive a signed copy of The Promise 33 00:01:57,520 --> 00:01:59,559 S1: of Jesse Woods, a novel that I wrote a few 34 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:02,600 S1: years ago. If you give $30 or more a month, 35 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:07,000 S1: you get 50% off resources from Moody Publishers and the 36 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,639 S1: book that we're offering this month, anybody? This is one 37 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:14,280 S1: of my main questions like back fence supporters, back fence partners, 38 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,960 S1: do they get, you know, like Doctor Cathy Cooke's resolve 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,359 S1: conflict and find peace and hope with adult children. That's 40 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,880 S1: what we're giving to anyone who supports us to the 41 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:25,160 S1: back fence partners get that. And that's yes. We don't 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,960 S1: send you everything automatically, but if you want it, just 43 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:33,200 S1: request it. And it's it's yours. So go to chris.org. 44 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,840 S1: There's every reason to be a back fence partner with us, 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,359 S1: Chris fabric.org. Or if you want to talk to a 46 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:46,160 S1: real live person. 86695 Faber you'll hear a prompt to 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,360 S1: leave a message or give a gift. And if you 48 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,320 S1: want to give a gift, you'll talk to that the 49 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:57,080 S1: people 866, 9532279. And thank you for your generosity here 50 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:02,160 S1: in September. Her name is Shannon Popkin. From the platform 51 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:06,480 S1: page and podcast microphone, Shannon invites you to drink deeply 52 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,280 S1: of God's story and live like it's true. That's the 53 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,920 S1: title of the podcast that she hosts Live Like It's 54 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:19,959 S1: Truth Bible Podcast. Her books include control, Girl, comparison, Girl 55 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,399 S1: Shaped by God's Promises. She's been featured on Revive Our 56 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,079 S1: Hearts and Family Life Today and the Gospel Coalition, and more. Today, 57 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,000 S1: she's on Chris Fabry Live with a book that's just 58 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,720 S1: out kind of judgy, Finding Mercy for myself and others 59 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,560 S1: in six stories of the Bible. Shannon, welcome. How are 60 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,360 S1: you doing today? 61 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:43,680 S2: I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Chris. 62 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:44,640 S2: It's a huge honor. 63 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,880 S1: I am looking forward to this because anybody who spends 64 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,160 S1: enough time researching and writing on a topic, I think 65 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,960 S1: has some reason, something down deep that's calling them to 66 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,770 S1: do this, or they have something in the past that 67 00:03:58,770 --> 00:04:02,610 S1: they're dealing with that needs healing. So what is it? 68 00:04:02,650 --> 00:04:04,930 S1: Why did you write kind of judgy? 69 00:04:05,930 --> 00:04:08,730 S2: Yeah, I think it's both of those. Right? I think 70 00:04:08,970 --> 00:04:12,530 S2: I'm seeing this issue like all around me. We are 71 00:04:12,530 --> 00:04:17,810 S2: so judgy. We're so judgmental toward one another. And I 72 00:04:17,810 --> 00:04:20,450 S2: did grow up in, I think, a kind of judgy 73 00:04:20,490 --> 00:04:24,530 S2: setting where we were really prone to judge each other, 74 00:04:24,529 --> 00:04:28,050 S2: judge those outside the church. And I think what we 75 00:04:28,050 --> 00:04:33,089 S2: all need in all, all the different segments, we need 76 00:04:33,130 --> 00:04:36,529 S2: to encounter this merciful judge. He is such a good judge. 77 00:04:36,529 --> 00:04:39,010 S2: He's a better judge than we are. And I think 78 00:04:39,050 --> 00:04:42,370 S2: encountering him is what our hearts are craving. And I 79 00:04:42,370 --> 00:04:45,730 S2: think it does provide that that solution that we're looking for. 80 00:04:46,450 --> 00:04:50,169 S1: So would you agree with the question? That's the title 81 00:04:50,170 --> 00:04:54,130 S1: of our program. Are Christians too judgmental, would you say 82 00:04:54,529 --> 00:04:56,050 S1: yes to that question? 83 00:04:57,250 --> 00:05:01,849 S2: Well, yeah, I think we can be right. Um, you know, 84 00:05:01,890 --> 00:05:07,170 S2: we can be super harsh and super hard on other people. Now, 85 00:05:07,170 --> 00:05:09,610 S2: I think as believers, we want to hold fast to 86 00:05:09,610 --> 00:05:13,050 S2: our convictions. You know, we want to be the ones who, uh, 87 00:05:13,050 --> 00:05:15,930 S2: defer to God when God says that something is wrong. 88 00:05:15,970 --> 00:05:18,450 S2: You know, he's the one who draws the lines between 89 00:05:18,650 --> 00:05:22,330 S2: right and wrong. He's the one who has put forth like, 90 00:05:22,370 --> 00:05:25,330 S2: here's how you're going to flourish. Here's the right way 91 00:05:25,330 --> 00:05:27,130 S2: to live. And so we want to defer to him 92 00:05:27,130 --> 00:05:30,330 S2: on those things. And yet there are warnings for us 93 00:05:30,330 --> 00:05:34,490 S2: believers saying, do not judge. Jesus was talking to his 94 00:05:34,490 --> 00:05:38,090 S2: followers saying, do not judge. You know, be careful of judging. 95 00:05:38,089 --> 00:05:41,049 S2: And I think that's a good warning for us today 96 00:05:41,050 --> 00:05:42,930 S2: in the church. You know, as the world looks on 97 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,130 S2: and they see us with all of our contempt and 98 00:05:46,130 --> 00:05:49,650 S2: our disgust for sin, and we're finger pointing and we're 99 00:05:49,690 --> 00:05:53,490 S2: judging and they're like, you're so judgmental. I mean, I 100 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:56,250 S2: just want to softly ask, like, could they be right? 101 00:05:56,570 --> 00:05:59,650 S2: And so I think there is a lot for us 102 00:05:59,650 --> 00:06:02,570 S2: to consider. Are there ways that we just need to 103 00:06:02,610 --> 00:06:04,810 S2: lay down our gavel and step down? I think it's 104 00:06:04,810 --> 00:06:07,490 S2: when we when we try to sit in God's seat 105 00:06:07,730 --> 00:06:13,250 S2: and take his gavel in our hands, um, and judge superficially, 106 00:06:13,250 --> 00:06:17,170 S2: judge hypocritically, judge by appearances, there's so many ways we 107 00:06:17,170 --> 00:06:19,730 S2: get it wrong. I think we need to, like, consider 108 00:06:19,730 --> 00:06:23,570 S2: our hearts in those in those situations, I think behind 109 00:06:23,610 --> 00:06:26,729 S2: so the finger of judgment always tends to point down 110 00:06:26,730 --> 00:06:30,929 S2: from this elevated position of superiority. And behind that judgy 111 00:06:30,930 --> 00:06:34,210 S2: finger is pride. And that's really, I think, where we 112 00:06:34,210 --> 00:06:35,570 S2: get it wrong with judging. 113 00:06:36,529 --> 00:06:40,890 S1: That's what really arrested me when I, I went through 114 00:06:40,890 --> 00:06:45,930 S1: the book and it is the question of myself of 115 00:06:46,210 --> 00:06:49,130 S1: how much do I, how much do I see myself 116 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:50,849 S1: in the mirror that I'm looking at? But, you know, 117 00:06:50,890 --> 00:06:52,530 S1: in the mirror of God's Word and the mirror of 118 00:06:52,529 --> 00:06:56,409 S1: what you're writing about being judgmental. And how much of 119 00:06:56,410 --> 00:07:01,810 S1: it have I just pushed aside for being discerning? You know, 120 00:07:01,850 --> 00:07:04,650 S1: I'm discerning, and I know that this here's what God says, 121 00:07:04,970 --> 00:07:08,370 S1: but it's it sounds like especially with the contempt that 122 00:07:08,370 --> 00:07:12,890 S1: you just talked about, we are dripping with contempt all 123 00:07:12,890 --> 00:07:16,210 S1: over in every part of society. It's not just in 124 00:07:16,210 --> 00:07:19,929 S1: the church, you know, but when I when I see 125 00:07:19,970 --> 00:07:25,050 S1: contempt in somebody else, I can see it. I can't 126 00:07:25,050 --> 00:07:29,490 S1: see it as quickly in myself because I see it 127 00:07:29,490 --> 00:07:33,970 S1: as this righteous indignation. So will this book help cure 128 00:07:34,010 --> 00:07:34,770 S1: me of that? 129 00:07:36,170 --> 00:07:38,770 S2: Yeah. I mean, I think it's an area of it's 130 00:07:38,770 --> 00:07:42,850 S2: a blind spot. And I think we enjoy looking at 131 00:07:42,850 --> 00:07:45,170 S2: the sin of others. We enjoy looking at the ways 132 00:07:45,170 --> 00:07:48,090 S2: that they're wrong. And that's, that's kind of why we judge. 133 00:07:48,090 --> 00:07:50,850 S2: I think there's, we get these little judgy boosts of 134 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:53,330 S2: pride when we when we find the flaws in others. 135 00:07:53,370 --> 00:07:57,090 S2: I was, uh, teaching VBS at my church years back, 136 00:07:57,090 --> 00:07:59,690 S2: and there was this little girl who responded to the gospel. 137 00:08:00,050 --> 00:08:01,810 S2: And so I brought her out in the hallway and 138 00:08:01,810 --> 00:08:05,170 S2: I said, honey, are you feeling convicted of your sin? 139 00:08:05,650 --> 00:08:07,450 S2: Because I think, you know, before we can share the 140 00:08:07,450 --> 00:08:09,210 S2: good news, we have to talk about the bad news. 141 00:08:09,210 --> 00:08:11,730 S2: And so this little girl though, said, oh no, I 142 00:08:11,730 --> 00:08:14,850 S2: don't sin. And so I brought her to one of 143 00:08:14,850 --> 00:08:17,410 S2: those verses that list out a bunch of sins. And 144 00:08:17,410 --> 00:08:18,850 S2: I said, you know, have you ever done any of 145 00:08:18,850 --> 00:08:21,530 S2: these things? Oh, no, she never had. So then I 146 00:08:21,530 --> 00:08:24,090 S2: showed her the verse that said, for all have sinned 147 00:08:24,090 --> 00:08:26,650 S2: and fallen short. And she said, I think I'd like 148 00:08:26,650 --> 00:08:29,490 S2: to go back to my class now. And so I 149 00:08:29,490 --> 00:08:31,530 S2: was like, okay. So I bring her back in her 150 00:08:31,530 --> 00:08:34,770 S2: class and her teacher was like, so excited and said, oh, honey, 151 00:08:34,770 --> 00:08:37,210 S2: do you have something to share with the class? And 152 00:08:37,210 --> 00:08:39,930 S2: she said, to my surprise, she said, oh, I do. 153 00:08:40,330 --> 00:08:42,570 S2: And so she takes her little finger and she sweeps 154 00:08:42,570 --> 00:08:45,449 S2: it across the group of girls sitting there and she says, 155 00:08:45,450 --> 00:08:49,530 S2: all of you have sinned. She did it twice. All 156 00:08:49,690 --> 00:08:53,130 S2: of you have sinned. And so, like what I what 157 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:54,929 S2: I see in her is what I see in me. 158 00:08:55,250 --> 00:08:58,810 S2: This enjoyment of pointing out the sin of others so 159 00:08:58,809 --> 00:09:01,209 S2: that I don't have to take that look at the 160 00:09:01,210 --> 00:09:02,810 S2: sin in my own heart. I don't really want to 161 00:09:02,809 --> 00:09:06,690 S2: deal with that. And I think judging is it's deflecting. 162 00:09:06,929 --> 00:09:11,050 S2: It's putting the emphasis on other people's sin. And and 163 00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:14,730 S2: yet it's dangerous because we become more and more blind 164 00:09:14,730 --> 00:09:17,530 S2: to our own sin. It's like we're filling our our 165 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:20,569 S2: lungs with pride as we judge, you know, just pointing. 166 00:09:20,570 --> 00:09:22,930 S2: You are wrong, you are wrong, you are wrong. And 167 00:09:22,929 --> 00:09:24,569 S2: we're blind to our own Fallenness. 168 00:09:25,570 --> 00:09:28,890 S1: Tell that story of that little girl made me think 169 00:09:28,890 --> 00:09:31,809 S1: of Jesus in the rich young ruler. And what would 170 00:09:31,850 --> 00:09:34,089 S1: have happened if you had said to her, now I 171 00:09:34,090 --> 00:09:36,010 S1: want you to go take all your Barbies and give 172 00:09:36,010 --> 00:09:39,730 S1: them away and come back here, you know. And then 173 00:09:39,730 --> 00:09:42,410 S1: she would go away sorrowful, you know, because there was 174 00:09:42,410 --> 00:09:46,210 S1: something there was something going on there. And I wonder 175 00:09:46,210 --> 00:09:51,449 S1: if in her heart she was not just thinking of this, 176 00:09:51,490 --> 00:09:55,050 S1: you know, on her own. So much of the children 177 00:09:55,050 --> 00:09:57,730 S1: and I grew of the kids that I grew up 178 00:09:57,730 --> 00:10:01,730 S1: with were mimicking what they learned from their parents. They're 179 00:10:01,730 --> 00:10:06,170 S1: talking about the political viewpoints of their parents or their 180 00:10:06,170 --> 00:10:10,370 S1: theological viewpoints of their parents, and they're bringing that out. 181 00:10:10,370 --> 00:10:14,010 S1: And I wonder if, you know, in her heart that's 182 00:10:14,010 --> 00:10:16,490 S1: what was going on. She was just, you know, thinking 183 00:10:16,490 --> 00:10:20,089 S1: about what what she had been taught. With that, let 184 00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:22,450 S1: me take a time out, take a quick break, kind 185 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:26,569 S1: of judgy as our featured resource today by Shannon Popkin, 186 00:10:26,570 --> 00:10:30,170 S1: finding mercy for myself and others in six stories of 187 00:10:30,170 --> 00:10:32,730 S1: the Bible. We're going to get into Noah and Rahab 188 00:10:32,730 --> 00:10:36,729 S1: and Jonah and others today, and then real life stories 189 00:10:36,730 --> 00:10:41,330 S1: of those who have been judged and how that affected 190 00:10:41,370 --> 00:10:55,410 S1: them more straight ahead on Moody Radio. Have you been 191 00:10:55,410 --> 00:11:00,130 S1: judged by somebody else? Would that do inside you? Would 192 00:11:00,130 --> 00:11:02,929 S1: that do to your soul? How long ago was it? 193 00:11:02,929 --> 00:11:06,690 S1: Is it still there? Is the pain still there? That judgment, 194 00:11:07,050 --> 00:11:10,290 S1: the ramifications of the judgments that's still in your heart. 195 00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:12,809 S1: I'm going to open the phone lines today. What's your 196 00:11:12,809 --> 00:11:17,130 S1: experience with this, or have you seen how judgmental you 197 00:11:17,170 --> 00:11:21,770 S1: were of someone else? And if you have, how did 198 00:11:21,809 --> 00:11:25,890 S1: how did you see that? Was it somebody judging you? 199 00:11:26,250 --> 00:11:30,090 S1: Was it somebody pointing it out in your life? Was 200 00:11:30,090 --> 00:11:32,929 S1: it the spirit that kind of touched that nerve of 201 00:11:32,929 --> 00:11:35,809 S1: your heart that showed you? Do you do you see 202 00:11:35,850 --> 00:11:43,570 S1: how you're coming across here? Uh, here's the number (877) 548-3675. 203 00:11:44,220 --> 00:11:49,740 S1: I'd love to hear your experience about being judgmental. Eight. 204 00:11:49,780 --> 00:11:55,300 S1: 775483675 or receiving that judgment. Shannon Popkin has written a 205 00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,100 S1: really good book and I, you know, maybe we you 206 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:02,140 S1: should have titled this How to be more Judgmental and 207 00:12:02,140 --> 00:12:05,579 S1: other Things that you Shouldn't be, but you title. And 208 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:07,700 S1: I do like the title kind of judgy because it 209 00:12:07,700 --> 00:12:10,339 S1: doesn't say, you know, you don't use the judgmental word there. 210 00:12:10,380 --> 00:12:13,300 S1: It's like, it's kind of you're kind of judgy. So 211 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:15,940 S1: you're saying it tongue in cheek with a little smile. 212 00:12:15,940 --> 00:12:20,059 S1: But at the same time, the subtitle says it all 213 00:12:20,059 --> 00:12:25,060 S1: finding mercy for myself and others in six stories of 214 00:12:25,059 --> 00:12:28,620 S1: the Bible. So there is a, an aspect of that 215 00:12:28,620 --> 00:12:35,100 S1: judgmental attitude that the people who are most judgmental are. 216 00:12:35,140 --> 00:12:40,980 S1: I have found, are really hard on themselves first. Have 217 00:12:40,980 --> 00:12:42,180 S1: you found that to be true? 218 00:12:42,780 --> 00:12:46,260 S2: Yeah, there's definitely a parallel, right? Those of us who 219 00:12:46,260 --> 00:12:49,740 S2: are so harsh and critical and judgmental of other people, 220 00:12:49,980 --> 00:12:53,340 S2: we turn that same judgment back on ourselves. We're so, 221 00:12:53,540 --> 00:12:55,819 S2: you know, it's it's more like, well, I expect better 222 00:12:55,820 --> 00:12:57,980 S2: of myself. How could I how could I have fallen 223 00:12:57,980 --> 00:13:00,940 S2: short in this way? Uh, and, and yeah, there's a 224 00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:04,380 S2: parallel between the two. And I think it's just we 225 00:13:04,420 --> 00:13:06,740 S2: have to recognize what other people need. And what we 226 00:13:06,780 --> 00:13:10,180 S2: need are the same thing. We need mercy. And we 227 00:13:10,220 --> 00:13:12,660 S2: can't on our own overcome our sin. 228 00:13:13,340 --> 00:13:16,300 S1: Tell me the story of the woman. Uh, this was 229 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:18,780 S1: a long time ago. Who was pregnant out of wedlock? 230 00:13:19,740 --> 00:13:24,420 S2: Yeah. I think sometimes we just haven't modeled. I think 231 00:13:24,460 --> 00:13:28,100 S2: finding that mercy, we're maybe saying it, but we're just 232 00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:31,380 S2: not giving great handles for people to find that mercy 233 00:13:31,380 --> 00:13:34,820 S2: that we all need for ourselves. Uh, I interviewed a 234 00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:37,940 S2: woman who grew up in a, in a church, um, 235 00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:40,340 S2: as she's telling her story, I was like, oh, this 236 00:13:40,340 --> 00:13:45,580 S2: sounds like my church, I remember similar situations and she 237 00:13:45,580 --> 00:13:49,939 S2: she got pregnant before she was married. And the church 238 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:55,220 S2: asked that she and her boyfriend write a letter of repentance. And, 239 00:13:55,260 --> 00:13:57,900 S2: you know, the pastor was very kind and empathetic and 240 00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:01,060 S2: they were happy to do that. They were repentant. Um, 241 00:14:01,059 --> 00:14:04,060 S2: they were, they had decided not to sleep together until marriage. 242 00:14:04,059 --> 00:14:06,819 S2: And so they were very repentant before the Lord. And 243 00:14:06,820 --> 00:14:08,939 S2: they were fine with their letter being read. I mean, 244 00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:12,380 S2: it was really hard. Um, but I think the hardest 245 00:14:12,380 --> 00:14:15,620 S2: part after hearing her story was like, what came after that? 246 00:14:15,620 --> 00:14:18,699 S2: Because there wasn't really this path back. You know, when 247 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:20,460 S2: I was talking to her, I asked, well, did anyone 248 00:14:20,460 --> 00:14:22,980 S2: come up afterward and hug you and say, oh, honey, 249 00:14:23,020 --> 00:14:26,260 S2: we're praying for you. We're here for you? And she said, no, 250 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:28,420 S2: it wasn't like that. And she said, in fact, there 251 00:14:28,420 --> 00:14:32,340 S2: was just this rush to get her married. Um, Christmas 252 00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:34,340 S2: was coming. And she had thought, well, maybe we could 253 00:14:34,340 --> 00:14:38,180 S2: put the wedding off until after Christmas. And it was like, oh, no, 254 00:14:38,180 --> 00:14:41,220 S2: because that would mean one more month of showing up 255 00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:45,700 S2: to church, pregnant and not married. And it's like the 256 00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:49,420 S2: church people just wanted to relieve the tension of that stigma. 257 00:14:49,940 --> 00:14:52,460 S2: And yet, after the wedding, she felt like the stigma 258 00:14:52,460 --> 00:14:56,060 S2: still didn't go away. She just felt judged and labeled 259 00:14:56,060 --> 00:14:59,220 S2: and shunned. Like every room she walked into, she just 260 00:14:59,220 --> 00:15:02,420 S2: felt like the sinner. And it didn't just affect her. 261 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:06,220 S2: I can imagine it. It affected others looking in and 262 00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:10,460 S2: watching like, okay, this is what happens when you sin 263 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:13,220 S2: in this way. I mean, I remember talking to a 264 00:15:13,220 --> 00:15:16,260 S2: girl that I grew up at church with, and a 265 00:15:16,260 --> 00:15:19,460 S2: similar letter was read and she remembered. She's like, I 266 00:15:19,460 --> 00:15:22,020 S2: remember where I was sitting. I remember what the girl 267 00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:26,100 S2: was wearing. I was very aware. Message received. If you 268 00:15:26,140 --> 00:15:29,020 S2: sin in this way, this is a place where that 269 00:15:29,020 --> 00:15:31,820 S2: will be called out. And and now, I mean, I 270 00:15:31,820 --> 00:15:35,140 S2: think we have to balance this. Like sin is very serious. 271 00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:39,220 S2: It hurts people. It keeps us from, from flourishing. but 272 00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:42,420 S2: but like, do we really think that we can make 273 00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:45,780 S2: that sin go away? Can we get rid of that stigma? 274 00:15:45,820 --> 00:15:47,940 S2: You know, can we clean people up? And the answer 275 00:15:47,940 --> 00:15:52,060 S2: is like, no, we can't. Uh, and the, there's only 276 00:15:52,060 --> 00:15:55,740 S2: one person who can, and it's Jesus. And so the 277 00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:58,020 S2: better question, I think that we need to be modeling 278 00:15:58,020 --> 00:16:00,380 S2: and asking is, where are you going with your sin? 279 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:02,780 S2: Because the sin is there. Uh, where are you going 280 00:16:02,780 --> 00:16:05,940 S2: with that sin? Are you going to Jesus in repentance 281 00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,460 S2: and providing each other a way back? You know, finding 282 00:16:08,460 --> 00:16:11,500 S2: mercy first for myself, like you said, Chris, but also 283 00:16:11,540 --> 00:16:14,340 S2: mercy for other people because that's what we all need. 284 00:16:14,340 --> 00:16:15,780 S2: We need the mercy of Jesus. 285 00:16:16,380 --> 00:16:18,340 S1: Why do you think it was hard for the people 286 00:16:18,340 --> 00:16:24,100 S1: in that church to approach her then and label her? 287 00:16:24,540 --> 00:16:26,740 S1: They label her, put her in a basket. You know, 288 00:16:26,780 --> 00:16:30,740 S1: it's put you over there. And then I wonder, you know, 289 00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:34,500 S1: years later, when the child grows up, does the child 290 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,900 S1: live under that same kind of, you know, the dust 291 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:42,100 S1: storm of judgmental attitudes. Child didn't have anything to do 292 00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:45,700 S1: with it. But the child can absorb some of that, right? 293 00:16:45,980 --> 00:16:49,740 S2: Yeah, yeah. No, I heard about a baby shower recently 294 00:16:49,740 --> 00:16:53,380 S2: that a friend was, um, saying that some of the 295 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:58,180 S2: relatives weren't going to come because the mom wasn't married. 296 00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:01,900 S2: And my friend was saying, but you don't know. You 297 00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:04,100 S2: don't see what's happening in her heart. She is she's 298 00:17:04,140 --> 00:17:07,340 S2: asking good questions. You know, she's asking, what does God 299 00:17:07,340 --> 00:17:10,219 S2: think about marriage? And her heart is softening. And I 300 00:17:10,220 --> 00:17:13,740 S2: think I really think that's so key, isn't it? Is 301 00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:16,939 S2: that we don't know. We can't judge. Like this is 302 00:17:16,940 --> 00:17:20,220 S2: all about judging superficially, what's happening in the heart. And 303 00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:22,219 S2: it reminds me of that story of Simon and the 304 00:17:22,220 --> 00:17:25,740 S2: sinful woman. You know, she, she creeps in to this 305 00:17:25,740 --> 00:17:29,660 S2: dinner party that Simon, the Pharisee's hosting, and she is 306 00:17:29,660 --> 00:17:33,340 S2: crying at Jesus's feet. And here's Simon on the other 307 00:17:33,340 --> 00:17:35,780 S2: side of the table. And he's like holding court in 308 00:17:35,859 --> 00:17:39,220 S2: his head and he's talking in his head about like, 309 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:42,020 S2: if Jesus knew who this woman was and what sort 310 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:44,420 S2: of woman she is, you know, you just mentioned like 311 00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:47,859 S2: sorting people, putting her she's this sort, you know, he's 312 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:50,460 S2: this other sort over here. He's the good sort. She's 313 00:17:50,460 --> 00:17:54,060 S2: the bad sort. He's the worthy sort. She's the despicable sort. 314 00:17:54,619 --> 00:17:58,300 S2: And so he's, he's accustomed to using the law to 315 00:17:58,340 --> 00:18:01,699 S2: sort people into different categories. But that's not what the 316 00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,740 S2: law was intended to do. You know, the law always 317 00:18:04,740 --> 00:18:07,820 S2: was intended to lead us to our need for Jesus. 318 00:18:07,820 --> 00:18:10,700 S2: And that's what's happening with this woman at Jesus's feet. 319 00:18:10,859 --> 00:18:13,340 S2: You know, that's that's what's happening with this girl who 320 00:18:13,820 --> 00:18:16,260 S2: there's a baby shower for her or this woman who 321 00:18:16,420 --> 00:18:19,179 S2: is reading her letter of repentance in the church, like 322 00:18:19,340 --> 00:18:23,340 S2: they're coming to Jesus. And, and so Jesus, in that 323 00:18:23,340 --> 00:18:25,379 S2: in that story with Simon and the sinful woman, the 324 00:18:25,380 --> 00:18:29,180 S2: one that he calls out is not the woman, it's Simon. 325 00:18:29,420 --> 00:18:34,180 S2: You know, he he calls attention to Simon's. How Simon 326 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:36,260 S2: has been wrong. In fact, he tells this story about 327 00:18:36,260 --> 00:18:39,700 S2: two people who are in debt. One has more debt, 328 00:18:39,740 --> 00:18:42,580 S2: the other has less debt. But they're both in a 329 00:18:42,580 --> 00:18:45,300 S2: in a terrible situation where they can't pay their debt. 330 00:18:45,580 --> 00:18:49,820 S2: And so he very subtly, very jewishly puts Simon and 331 00:18:49,820 --> 00:18:52,619 S2: the sinful woman. You know, he sees them as different sorts. 332 00:18:52,619 --> 00:18:54,580 S2: And Jesus is like, oh, no, you're the same sort. 333 00:18:54,619 --> 00:18:56,820 S2: I'm putting you in the same story. You have the 334 00:18:56,820 --> 00:18:59,380 S2: same situation. You have a debt of sin and you 335 00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:02,740 S2: cannot pay. And yet Jesus also puts himself in the story. 336 00:19:02,780 --> 00:19:06,500 S2: He's the one who has come to forgive sin. And 337 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,860 S2: so that's I mean, that's the solution. It's not we 338 00:19:09,859 --> 00:19:12,980 S2: can't clean up the sin for ourselves or for other people. 339 00:19:12,980 --> 00:19:15,940 S2: We need to come to Jesus the mercy of Jesus. 340 00:19:16,660 --> 00:19:19,660 S1: It's easier, though, to sort, isn't it? It is. It's 341 00:19:19,660 --> 00:19:23,580 S1: easier because then I don't have to think about. I 342 00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:26,179 S1: don't have to think about that person as another person. 343 00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:29,500 S1: I can just see them as whatever I see them as. 344 00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:34,230 S1: You know, and judge the exterior, the outward and not 345 00:19:34,270 --> 00:19:37,630 S1: what's on on the inside, which is what Philip is 346 00:19:37,630 --> 00:19:40,109 S1: calling about, I think, in Nashville. Philip, why did you 347 00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:40,790 S1: call today? 348 00:19:42,030 --> 00:19:45,430 S3: Yes. Thank you, Chris, for having me. Yes. I've gone 349 00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:48,950 S3: through times of judging where I've judged a lot of people. 350 00:19:50,030 --> 00:19:53,350 S3: And then after I became a Christian, I realized that's, 351 00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:55,910 S3: that's I should not be doing that. But I realized 352 00:19:55,910 --> 00:19:58,550 S3: a lot of people get confused with Matthew seven one. 353 00:19:58,550 --> 00:20:02,070 S3: And then the later verses in Matthew when Jesus says, 354 00:20:02,070 --> 00:20:04,710 S3: judge and not be judged. But then later on, he 355 00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:08,149 S3: judges a tree by its fruits. And people always say 356 00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:12,030 S3: Christians are judgy. I always like to tell people we 357 00:20:12,030 --> 00:20:17,110 S3: should never judge people's intentions, but people's actions we are 358 00:20:17,109 --> 00:20:19,870 S3: allowed to judge. When Jesus said, you judge a tree 359 00:20:19,869 --> 00:20:23,510 S3: by its fruit. So if someone does something wrong, something bad, 360 00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:26,350 S3: I believe there is nothing wrong in telling them what 361 00:20:26,350 --> 00:20:29,270 S3: they did was wrong. We judge their actions, but we 362 00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:32,310 S3: shouldn't say that. Oh, because you did this wrong, you 363 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:36,190 S3: are a bad person. You have bad intentions. So that's 364 00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:39,870 S3: that's where I believe the judging. As Christians, we should 365 00:20:39,869 --> 00:20:43,469 S3: understand judging. We we. We can judge, but we judge 366 00:20:43,470 --> 00:20:46,109 S3: the act, but never the intentions. 367 00:20:46,590 --> 00:20:48,550 S1: Philip, I'm glad you called. Shannon. What do you say 368 00:20:48,550 --> 00:20:49,149 S1: about that? 369 00:20:49,750 --> 00:20:52,830 S2: Yeah, I like that. I think that's good. Yeah. Jesus. 370 00:20:52,830 --> 00:20:55,550 S2: Did he talked about, you know, look at the tree. 371 00:20:55,790 --> 00:20:58,350 S2: And you can tell by its fruit what sort of 372 00:20:58,350 --> 00:21:01,350 S2: tree it is. And so yeah, he and that's right. 373 00:21:01,350 --> 00:21:04,229 S2: In the same passage where he said, do not judge. 374 00:21:04,230 --> 00:21:08,429 S2: And so clearly there are ways that we are to judge. 375 00:21:08,430 --> 00:21:12,030 S2: And I think you're exactly right. Is it? I think, Philip, 376 00:21:12,510 --> 00:21:16,590 S2: it's God has clearly drawn lines between right and wrong, 377 00:21:16,869 --> 00:21:19,109 S2: and we are not we live in a culture that 378 00:21:19,109 --> 00:21:22,910 S2: says it's wrong to say anybody's wrong. And so that's 379 00:21:22,910 --> 00:21:25,790 S2: not the stance of the Bible. The Bible is very clear. 380 00:21:25,790 --> 00:21:28,350 S2: Here are the lines that God has drawn. And we're 381 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:31,229 S2: not wrong to say, yeah, someone has crossed one of 382 00:21:31,230 --> 00:21:35,149 S2: those lines. Um, and, and, but I think you're also 383 00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:39,869 S2: correct in saying we are wrong to judge superficially, to 384 00:21:39,910 --> 00:21:42,350 S2: judge just the surface, to judge or I'm sorry to 385 00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:45,550 S2: judge beneath the surface, to judge the heart. Um, you know, 386 00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:48,630 S2: like this woman who crept in and is crying at 387 00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:52,070 S2: Jesus's feet. I mean, Simon is just looking at the 388 00:21:52,109 --> 00:21:55,350 S2: out outward part of this woman. He sees her as 389 00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:57,990 S2: a sinner. He knows what she's done, but he's missing 390 00:21:57,990 --> 00:22:00,910 S2: a really big clue. I mean, this woman, why is 391 00:22:00,910 --> 00:22:03,870 S2: she crying? Why is she just this snotty mess at 392 00:22:03,869 --> 00:22:07,470 S2: Jesus's feet? Why is she pouring out this perfume? It's 393 00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:10,510 S2: because something is happening in her heart, and he's just 394 00:22:10,510 --> 00:22:14,350 S2: not even willing to consider that, that the Lord. And 395 00:22:14,350 --> 00:22:16,390 S2: I think some of us are so judgmental and so 396 00:22:16,390 --> 00:22:19,510 S2: harsh that we're not even willing to consider what God 397 00:22:19,510 --> 00:22:21,790 S2: is doing beneath the surface. And so we have to 398 00:22:21,790 --> 00:22:28,510 S2: be very, very mindful of that, that we, we cannot judge, uh, superficially, um, 399 00:22:28,590 --> 00:22:31,710 S2: what what the Lord is, is doing under the surface. 400 00:22:32,070 --> 00:22:35,750 S1: But we can be discerning and, and, and how we 401 00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:39,790 S1: do this, how we approach somebody else about their, their 402 00:22:39,830 --> 00:22:45,310 S1: sin and their life. What you're seeing, it's, it's my motivation. 403 00:22:45,310 --> 00:22:48,590 S1: That's the, that's the only intent that I have control 404 00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:52,710 S1: of is my motivation. Uh, and do I have their 405 00:22:52,710 --> 00:22:54,989 S1: best interest at heart or do I just want to 406 00:22:54,990 --> 00:22:57,310 S1: show how wrong they are and how right I am? 407 00:22:57,830 --> 00:23:02,030 S2: Yeah. Yes. No, that's true. Uh, and again, like we, 408 00:23:02,030 --> 00:23:05,070 S2: we do have passages in the scriptures that tell us 409 00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:08,270 S2: how we're to respond to other people. We're, we're intended 410 00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:11,109 S2: to be a community of people who are all following 411 00:23:11,109 --> 00:23:15,469 S2: Jesus together. And we're not meant to follow Jesus just 412 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:19,110 S2: as individuals, but as groups. And in that group, we 413 00:23:19,109 --> 00:23:21,750 S2: have passages of Scripture that tell us to confront one 414 00:23:21,750 --> 00:23:24,590 S2: another and to call one another to the truth. You know, 415 00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:27,270 S2: go get the wanderer, bring them back. Bring them back 416 00:23:27,510 --> 00:23:32,630 S2: into the fold. Uh, Matthew 18. If somebody sins, repeatedly, 417 00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:35,590 S2: go after them. Have a two chair conversation. Have a 418 00:23:35,590 --> 00:23:39,229 S2: three chair conversation. Let's call one another back. But I 419 00:23:39,230 --> 00:23:41,550 S2: think you're right, Chris. When you talk about our, our 420 00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:45,990 S2: motivation and our attitude to, to do that before we 421 00:23:45,990 --> 00:23:48,750 S2: can enter into that where we're helping someone else with 422 00:23:48,750 --> 00:23:51,790 S2: their sin, we have to deal with the big log 423 00:23:51,790 --> 00:23:54,790 S2: sticking out of our eye, which is often pride. Like pride, 424 00:23:54,790 --> 00:23:58,350 S2: is a really big sin. And we have to deal 425 00:23:58,350 --> 00:24:01,510 S2: with that or we're just not. We don't have the clarity. Uh, 426 00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:04,350 S2: and I think we, we get pride is where we 427 00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:08,350 S2: get judging wrong. Uh, you know, we, it's our, our 428 00:24:08,350 --> 00:24:10,790 S2: pride that causes us to pick up God's gavel as 429 00:24:10,790 --> 00:24:14,390 S2: if we can make this final declaration of somebody's life 430 00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:18,190 S2: or pride is what makes us harsh and not merciful. Um, 431 00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:20,710 S2: pride is what turns us into a hypocrite where we 432 00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:23,590 S2: don't even see the ways that we're sinning. And so 433 00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:26,629 S2: I think before we're ready to go talk to somebody else. 434 00:24:26,630 --> 00:24:29,950 S2: That's that's the warning of, of Matthew seven is don't 435 00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:32,910 S2: judge or you're going to be judged by your own 436 00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:34,230 S2: hypocritical pride. 437 00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:38,909 S1: I think you've just put the finger on why a 438 00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:41,630 S1: lot of people give up on praying for other people, 439 00:24:41,910 --> 00:24:45,230 S1: because part of it is a lack of faith. You know, 440 00:24:45,270 --> 00:24:49,869 S1: in God's power, part of it is lived experience. They've 441 00:24:49,869 --> 00:24:53,909 S1: been living this way. They've been, you know, speaking against 442 00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:56,389 S1: God for so many. You know, there's no way they're 443 00:24:56,390 --> 00:24:58,870 S1: ever going to change, you know, but in a sense, 444 00:24:58,869 --> 00:25:03,550 S1: that's a judgmental view of them. Why? Why do we 445 00:25:03,550 --> 00:25:07,670 S1: get to the point where we, you know, we jettison 446 00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:10,910 S1: whoever this other person is because we think there's no 447 00:25:10,910 --> 00:25:14,830 S1: hope for them. Well, it's because we've judged them outside 448 00:25:14,830 --> 00:25:19,110 S1: of the ability of God to reach inside their heart, 449 00:25:19,109 --> 00:25:21,790 S1: which is the only way that we have ever come 450 00:25:21,790 --> 00:25:26,230 S1: into relationship with God. So the relationship is the main, 451 00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:29,110 S1: main thing. And that's what I love about your book. 452 00:25:29,430 --> 00:25:33,070 S1: You talk about this relationship that we have with other 453 00:25:33,070 --> 00:25:36,629 S1: people and how it reveals our own heart, and I 454 00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:38,830 S1: want to talk about that in the next segment. We'll 455 00:25:38,830 --> 00:25:47,190 S1: take your calls, Phillip. Thank you. (877) 548-3675. Featured resource today@chris.org 456 00:25:47,230 --> 00:26:04,950 S1: is the book by Shannon Popkin. Kinda judging. Shannon Popkin 457 00:26:04,950 --> 00:26:07,869 S1: is joining us today at the Radio Backyard Fence. She's 458 00:26:07,869 --> 00:26:11,950 S1: written a really judgmental book, not really kind of judgy 459 00:26:11,990 --> 00:26:15,710 S1: Finding Mercy for yourself and others in six stories of 460 00:26:15,710 --> 00:26:18,550 S1: the Bible. And I want her to talk about something 461 00:26:18,550 --> 00:26:22,310 S1: specifically here in this segment. And that is and I've 462 00:26:22,350 --> 00:26:26,350 S1: experienced this not too much, but I've experienced this where 463 00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:28,430 S1: and I've seen other people as well, you know, get 464 00:26:28,430 --> 00:26:31,190 S1: into a place where non-Christians will come up and, and 465 00:26:31,190 --> 00:26:36,510 S1: point the finger at somebody. And when somebody says to me, oh, 466 00:26:36,550 --> 00:26:39,310 S1: you're being so judgmental, how can you be so judgmental? 467 00:26:40,150 --> 00:26:44,390 S1: My first reaction is to get into an argument and 468 00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:48,950 S1: point out, well, you certainly had no problem judging me. 469 00:26:48,990 --> 00:26:52,030 S1: Look at you. You know, and then it just devolves 470 00:26:52,030 --> 00:26:55,430 S1: from there. There is no there is no relationship. There's 471 00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:58,830 S1: only heat. No light. And it's true that they have 472 00:26:58,830 --> 00:27:02,670 S1: been judgmental and they're being hypocritical to me, you know, 473 00:27:02,710 --> 00:27:06,550 S1: or to whomever they're they're pointing their fingers, but it 474 00:27:06,550 --> 00:27:09,350 S1: doesn't really bring us closer together. And that's what I 475 00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:13,510 S1: like about your book and that the the goal here 476 00:27:13,510 --> 00:27:17,110 S1: is not to be right about everything and to do 477 00:27:17,109 --> 00:27:19,910 S1: everything exactly the way that I'm supposed to do it. 478 00:27:20,190 --> 00:27:23,880 S1: It's to. It's even in mistakes that you can make 479 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:28,400 S1: for being judgmental, that if you see it, can bring 480 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:32,040 S1: you closer together to other people. So, so talk about that. 481 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,640 S2: Yeah. I mean, I think you're exactly right. We just 482 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,840 S2: it's like we pick up our megaphones, you are judging 483 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,520 S2: and then, you know, you're one person saying you're wrong. 484 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,360 S2: The other is you're judging. And we just start shouting 485 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,840 S2: louder and louder. And we're not that's not solving anything. 486 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,960 S2: It's creating division. It's creating. I mean, we just want 487 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,800 S2: to back away from people that we feel judged by. And, 488 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,520 S2: and I think, yeah, what's behind that? You used the 489 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:02,840 S2: word contempt. And that's really in that attitude between in 490 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,520 S2: both parties, you know, you are wrong. You're judging me. 491 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,640 S2: There's this contempt for the other person. And I mean, that's, 492 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,560 S2: that's what that story we were just talking about with 493 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,320 S2: Simon and the, the sinful woman when he's calling her 494 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:20,280 S2: that sort, that's contempt. Contempt always says two things at once. 495 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,240 S2: It says you're awful. You know, either you're believing something 496 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,160 S2: awful or you're doing something awful, or you're just plain awful. 497 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,520 S2: You know, contempt says you are awful and I am 498 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,480 S2: nothing like you. But in my contempt I'm showing that 499 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,880 S2: I too am sinful. And I think you know what 500 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,320 S2: we see the Lord doing repeatedly when he's dealing with 501 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,600 S2: the contempt in one of his people is he's showing them, no, 502 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,400 S2: you're not so different than this other person. You know, 503 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,520 S2: like when he responded to Simon, who's showing contempt for that, 504 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,960 S2: that sinful woman, he's like, actually, you're the same sword 505 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:55,640 S2: as her. He puts her in the same. He puts 506 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,440 S2: Simon in the same story or also in the in 507 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,240 S2: the story of Jonah. Jonah has all this contempt for 508 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,360 S2: the Ninevites. He's looking at them and he's like, I 509 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,600 S2: never have, I never would, I never could. These people 510 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,440 S2: are nothing like me. And why would God ever pour 511 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,800 S2: his mercy on them? He's actually mad that God wants 512 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,840 S2: to respond to their repentance. You know, he he preaches 513 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:21,880 S2: a sermon. The whole city falls to their knees in repentance, 514 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,800 S2: and Jonah's throwing a fit about it. And what we 515 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,120 S2: see in his heart is that contempt. He's like, he 516 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,040 S2: thinks he deserves the mercy of God. But these people don't. He? 517 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,640 S2: He sees himself as worthy of it, but not them. 518 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,440 S2: And the question that the Lord comes after Jonah with is, 519 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,239 S2: is it right for you to be angry? Is it 520 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,280 S2: right now? Right. That's a that's a judgment word. You know, 521 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,760 S2: it's like right and wrong. And he's asking Jonah, are 522 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,480 S2: you right in in this contempt, in this anger? Are 523 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,480 S2: you right? And there's one point where Jonah says, yeah, 524 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,680 S2: I am right. I am so mad. I want to die. 525 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,600 S2: And the Lord responds to him and says, you know what? 526 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,240 S2: Is it not right for me to show compassion on 527 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:07,160 S2: this whole city full of of humans? He uses the word, 528 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,760 S2: not the normal word we would use for people, but 529 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,120 S2: the word for humans. And so there again, he puts 530 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,959 S2: Jonah together in the same human race, the same fallen 531 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,920 S2: human race as the Ninevites and. Yeah. I mean, they 532 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,360 S2: have sinned. He hasn't sinned in the same way that 533 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:26,520 S2: they are. They're evil, wicked, you know, vicious terrorists. And 534 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,640 S2: he he hasn't seen in those ways. And yet all 535 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,640 S2: of us, you know, that's the point. That little girl, 536 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,280 S2: all of us have sinned. And that's exactly right. We 537 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,160 S2: all have sinned. And so I think it grows our 538 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,760 S2: compassion for the other person rather than, you know, this division, 539 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,840 S2: it grows our our compassion when we see ourself beside 540 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,480 S2: among the other sinners. 541 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,040 S1: I wonder if with with Jonah and I had this 542 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,760 S1: question before the the program and I it's coming back 543 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,280 S1: to me again. Is it easier to be judgmental when 544 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,200 S1: you're isolated, when you're alone with your thoughts and your 545 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,040 S1: theology and whatever you're basing your life on, than it 546 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,440 S1: is when you are living in a loving community. Does 547 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,920 S1: a loving community make you less judgmental than it, than 548 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,960 S1: just being isolated. I want you to hang on to 549 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,600 S1: that thought. I'm going to come back to that because 550 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,960 S1: there's somebody who needs to the answer, and I think 551 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,320 S1: I do. Carly is in Florida. Carly, go right ahead. 552 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,400 S1: Why'd you call today? 553 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,440 S4: Hi. It's such an interesting topic. So I had a 554 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,280 S4: situation recently where I found myself looking back, I probably 555 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,800 S4: was in Judgment Zone. Totally. It was a group of 556 00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,200 S4: fellow believers, you know, young adults. And somehow the topic 557 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,800 S4: turned towards, um, alcohol, you know, and one person was like, 558 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,120 S4: oh yes, I'm gonna go to this, this town and 559 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,280 S4: I'm going to get a such and such whiskey. And 560 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,920 S4: then someone was like, oh yeah, you gotta go. You 561 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,840 S4: gotta have that whiskey when you go in that town. And, 562 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,920 S4: and I was like, mm, no, you don't, you know. 563 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,200 S4: And then it went on. Other people were talking about, oh, 564 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,880 S4: I love to have this alcohol beverage done this way. And, 565 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,880 S4: and I said something that looking back, I probably shouldn't 566 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,800 S4: have said. I was like, am I at a church 567 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,560 S4: group or a bar, you know? But it's like what 568 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,840 S4: they're talking about, you know, Christians drinking alcohol, obviously, that's 569 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,800 S4: not a sin. But I think that's something where maybe 570 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,080 S4: I had an opinion and the opinion in itself wasn't 571 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,560 S4: being judgmental, but it's the way I expressed it. You know, 572 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,200 S4: the whole comment about am I in a church or 573 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,600 S4: a bar? But it kind of just came out, you know? 574 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,040 S5: So I think how did they respond? What did what 575 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:45,880 S5: did they say when. 576 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:46,720 S1: You said that? 577 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,920 S4: They kind of laughed it off, you know, and then, 578 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,720 S4: you know, the conversation shifted to another topic or whatever 579 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,240 S4: someone did bring up the message about, you know, don't 580 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,120 S4: you know the Bible says, as long as you don't 581 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,000 S4: get drunk. And I guess it bothered me because I 582 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,840 S4: almost felt like they were glorifying, you know, the alcohol. 583 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,320 S4: This drink is great. And have you tried it this way? 584 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,280 S4: You know, it's like, I don't know. But either way, 585 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:15,680 S4: I realize, yeah, my my statement could very easily come off. 586 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,440 S4: Come off as being judgmental. You know, I don't think 587 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,280 S4: my opinion was wrong. I don't agree with their activities, 588 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,120 S4: but how I expressed it, I think, you know, was 589 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:27,040 S4: not the best. 590 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:28,440 S1: Shannon what do you think. 591 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,880 S2: Yeah, I is it. Carly I love your humility to 592 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,360 S2: share this story. I think that's amazing. And I love 593 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,760 S2: that you can say, yeah, I was kind of judgy there. 594 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,560 S2: And I think you're exactly right. I think we live 595 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:47,480 S2: in a culture where we are absolutely allergic to anyone 596 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:52,520 S2: expressing anything slightly judgmental that feels that way to us. Um, 597 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,440 S2: and alcohol is one of those areas where we are, 598 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,080 S2: you know, we're applying scripture. So in the back of 599 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,160 S2: my book, I had to kind of work through this, 600 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,720 S2: like how, how do we respond in different situations? And 601 00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,239 S2: so it was helpful for me to create different categories. 602 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,279 S2: As I'm asking myself, is it wrong for me to 603 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,160 S2: judge this, this belief or this person. And so I 604 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,720 S2: split it up into the three categories of pillars persuasions 605 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,880 S2: and personal application or personal convictions. And so the pillars, 606 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,920 S2: those are like the foundational truths that we as, as believers, 607 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,840 S2: that if you take one of those pillars away, somebody's 608 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,239 S2: going to fall. Someone's really going to get hurt. You know, 609 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,359 S2: like things like Jesus was fully God, you know, those 610 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,319 S2: sorts of things where cults are formed. But if you 611 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,560 S2: take away one of those pillars and so you've got 612 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:44,840 S2: your pillars, and then you've got your persuasions. And that's 613 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,480 S2: where people reading the same Bible are looking at different 614 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,160 S2: verses in the Bible and, and putting emphasis in different ways, 615 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,920 S2: and they're persuaded differently than one another. So maybe there's 616 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:59,920 S2: like the matter of, um, election versus free will or 617 00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:04,000 S2: the infant baptism or adult immersion, you know, so they're 618 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,120 S2: persuaded by different parts of the Bible in different ways. 619 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,000 S2: But then you've got this third category. And I think 620 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,839 S2: this is where the alcohol fits in. And so this 621 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,640 S2: is where people they're looking at the same verses in 622 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,799 S2: the Bible and they're being convicted in different ways. You know, 623 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,080 S2: one person is convicted. I, I can't have a drop 624 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:24,680 S2: of alcohol and another is, is not convicted in that way. 625 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,479 S2: And so Romans 14 talks about, like, Paul is dealing 626 00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,600 S2: with a group of people who have different personal convictions. 627 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,399 S2: And he tells them, like, this is an area that 628 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,040 S2: you should not be calling one another out and judging 629 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,279 S2: one another. Who are you to judge? You know, the 630 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,719 S2: servant of another. And so this is an area that 631 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,799 S2: we deal with before the Lord. And, um, and it's 632 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,680 S2: a private, it's a personal way. And we're actually wrong 633 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,600 S2: to judge and look down on someone because they don't 634 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,560 S2: believe that it's okay or that they do. It's like, 635 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,520 S2: either way, we fall into, um, into pride. And so 636 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:08,120 S2: we have to just let the Lord direct different people, um, 637 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,490 S2: in different ways and be and be good with that. 638 00:36:10,969 --> 00:36:12,930 S2: And but if I could just add one more thing, 639 00:36:12,930 --> 00:36:16,529 S2: I think, Chris, you talked earlier about how, you know, 640 00:36:16,530 --> 00:36:20,169 S2: we just kind of prefer we prefer our lists. We 641 00:36:20,170 --> 00:36:23,810 S2: prefer like our check box, our check boxes, like, just 642 00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:25,450 S2: tell me, give me all the lists. Like, Lord, would 643 00:36:25,450 --> 00:36:27,890 S2: you please? We would really prefer if you just listed 644 00:36:27,890 --> 00:36:29,930 S2: out all those personal convictions and then we would know 645 00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:31,690 S2: what was right and we would know what was wrong 646 00:36:31,690 --> 00:36:33,210 S2: and we could get it all right. And we wouldn't 647 00:36:33,210 --> 00:36:36,049 S2: even actually, you know, need to read our Bibles anymore 648 00:36:36,050 --> 00:36:39,250 S2: because we've got our list and that, you know, that's 649 00:36:39,250 --> 00:36:42,730 S2: from the beginning. The Lord. I think it's so interesting 650 00:36:42,730 --> 00:36:45,450 S2: that this tree in the garden was called the tree 651 00:36:45,450 --> 00:36:47,089 S2: of the Knowledge of Good and evil, and the Lord 652 00:36:47,090 --> 00:36:49,450 S2: kept that back from them. And it wasn't that he 653 00:36:49,450 --> 00:36:51,569 S2: didn't want them to know what was right and what 654 00:36:51,570 --> 00:36:54,930 S2: was wrong. He just he wanted them to know that, 655 00:36:54,930 --> 00:36:57,089 S2: but not apart from him. He wanted them to take 656 00:36:57,090 --> 00:36:59,810 S2: these long walks in the garden and learn. These are 657 00:36:59,810 --> 00:37:03,169 S2: my ways. And so from the context of relationship, he 658 00:37:03,170 --> 00:37:05,890 S2: wanted to show them, to walk with them. He wanted 659 00:37:05,890 --> 00:37:09,450 S2: it to be from the context of relationship. And I think, 660 00:37:09,730 --> 00:37:12,450 S2: you know, we want what Eve wanted. We're like, well, actually, 661 00:37:12,450 --> 00:37:14,130 S2: just give me the list. You know, I would really 662 00:37:14,130 --> 00:37:16,370 S2: like to have that discernment all on my own. Just 663 00:37:16,370 --> 00:37:17,850 S2: tell me right from wrong. And then I don't actually 664 00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:20,930 S2: need to involve the Lord. And I think our lines 665 00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:23,250 S2: and our lists can be super dangerous when we're talking 666 00:37:23,250 --> 00:37:28,090 S2: about that area of personal convictions. Uh, you know, it's 667 00:37:28,090 --> 00:37:30,489 S2: fine to influence one another and to share how the 668 00:37:30,489 --> 00:37:33,370 S2: Lord has brought conviction into our own heart. I think 669 00:37:33,370 --> 00:37:36,610 S2: it's fine to inspire one another, but when we impose those, 670 00:37:36,650 --> 00:37:39,410 S2: those lines and those lists that we don't, it's like, 671 00:37:39,410 --> 00:37:42,609 S2: if you can't find a verse in the Bible that supports, 672 00:37:42,650 --> 00:37:46,290 S2: you know, this whole do not have alcohol thing, then it's, you're, 673 00:37:46,290 --> 00:37:48,330 S2: you're imposing something. And we got to be really careful 674 00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:48,930 S2: with that. 675 00:37:49,969 --> 00:37:54,050 S1: And at the same time, I feel the tension there. Callie, 676 00:37:54,050 --> 00:37:56,569 S1: thank you for your call today. The tension of it, 677 00:37:56,570 --> 00:37:58,649 S1: because there are a lot of people. And in my 678 00:37:58,650 --> 00:38:02,690 S1: family there is there's been alcoholism. And so I'm, I'm 679 00:38:02,690 --> 00:38:06,930 S1: Uber heightened about this and about the dangers that alcohol 680 00:38:06,930 --> 00:38:10,609 S1: can have in people's lives because of how it can 681 00:38:10,610 --> 00:38:13,969 S1: tear families apart and ruin lives. And so just on 682 00:38:14,010 --> 00:38:18,330 S1: that level, it's just like, uh, even if you weren't mixing, 683 00:38:18,370 --> 00:38:20,609 S1: this wasn't a church group. It would be like, I 684 00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:22,370 S1: don't know, I got a hard time with that because 685 00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:26,410 S1: of the ramifications, you know, for, uh, especially, uh, a 686 00:38:26,450 --> 00:38:29,210 S1: lot of alcohol use and then go down the road, 687 00:38:29,210 --> 00:38:33,810 S1: go down the line of smoking and tattoos and, you know, 688 00:38:33,850 --> 00:38:36,850 S1: all of these other things or is, is one, you 689 00:38:36,850 --> 00:38:39,450 S1: can get back to the other section that you had. 690 00:38:39,489 --> 00:38:43,410 S1: And these are great appendixes here. Uh, the other section 691 00:38:43,450 --> 00:38:46,330 S1: is if you have the, if you don't read this 692 00:38:46,330 --> 00:38:49,570 S1: version of the Bible, if you don't read this translation, 693 00:38:49,570 --> 00:38:51,730 S1: then you're out. You know, I'm not going to have 694 00:38:51,730 --> 00:38:54,690 S1: fellowship with you. It's like I can see the judgment. 695 00:38:54,810 --> 00:38:59,090 S1: I can see the judgementalism of that, but I can't 696 00:38:59,090 --> 00:39:03,370 S1: see the judgementalism that I feel. When you didn't translate 697 00:39:03,370 --> 00:39:06,569 S1: that word in the Greek to this, you know. And 698 00:39:06,570 --> 00:39:09,850 S1: so it's just all over the place, not out there. 699 00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:13,650 S1: It's in here. And that's why Shannon Popkin has written 700 00:39:13,650 --> 00:39:17,890 S1: the book kind of judgy, because that's where she's coming from. 701 00:39:17,930 --> 00:39:20,730 S1: That's where she lives and moves and breathe. And God 702 00:39:20,730 --> 00:39:26,650 S1: has something better. Finding mercy for myself and others in 703 00:39:26,650 --> 00:39:29,650 S1: six stories of the Bible kind of judges our featured 704 00:39:29,650 --> 00:39:42,770 S1: resource at Chris Fabry live.org. I'm looking for some good 705 00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:46,370 S1: news for a Friday broadcast of Chris Fabry Live. Yeah, 706 00:39:46,570 --> 00:39:49,650 S1: I need some good news. Is there something to happen 707 00:39:49,650 --> 00:39:52,850 S1: in your life that is good that you can encourage 708 00:39:52,850 --> 00:39:56,009 S1: us with? We're going to open the lines tomorrow here 709 00:39:56,010 --> 00:39:59,009 S1: at the back fence and give a little good news. 710 00:39:59,050 --> 00:40:02,370 S1: Let's see what happens. And Shannon Popkin has written a 711 00:40:02,370 --> 00:40:06,210 S1: really good book, kind of judgy Finding Mercy for myself 712 00:40:06,210 --> 00:40:09,370 S1: and others in six stories of the Bible. And if 713 00:40:09,370 --> 00:40:12,689 S1: you go to Chris farrell.org, scroll down, you'll see it right? 714 00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:15,250 S1: A link right there and click through today's information. You 715 00:40:15,250 --> 00:40:17,450 S1: can hear the podcast again, if you missed any part 716 00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:20,690 S1: of this. And if you did, I don't judge you. Um, 717 00:40:21,010 --> 00:40:24,609 S1: so the question about being isolated, see, I think, I 718 00:40:24,650 --> 00:40:28,969 S1: think that it's easier for me to read my Bible 719 00:40:28,969 --> 00:40:33,569 S1: and to live my Christian life in isolation alone and 720 00:40:33,570 --> 00:40:36,610 S1: go out there and see so many people not doing, 721 00:40:36,770 --> 00:40:38,890 S1: doing it the way that I think they ought to 722 00:40:39,210 --> 00:40:43,730 S1: inside and outside the church than if I'm in a 723 00:40:43,770 --> 00:40:49,930 S1: loving community where I am continually of in relation with 724 00:40:49,930 --> 00:40:53,009 S1: other people who care about me and I care about them. 725 00:40:53,330 --> 00:40:57,089 S1: It's harder for me to be judgmental because I've got 726 00:40:57,090 --> 00:40:58,730 S1: a relationship. What do you. 727 00:40:58,730 --> 00:40:59,530 S6: Think? Mhm. 728 00:40:59,690 --> 00:41:02,450 S2: Yeah. Well, I think that's exactly right. I think that's 729 00:41:02,450 --> 00:41:04,609 S2: what the Lord wants for us. He wants us to 730 00:41:04,610 --> 00:41:07,730 S2: be in this context of relationship. And, you know, we 731 00:41:07,730 --> 00:41:10,890 S2: were talking about the story of Jonah before. And what's 732 00:41:10,890 --> 00:41:15,490 S2: so interesting is Jonah travels like a whole day into 733 00:41:15,489 --> 00:41:19,049 S2: the city. And he, you know, he's up close and 734 00:41:19,050 --> 00:41:23,250 S2: personal with these, these enemies that he has hated, you know, 735 00:41:23,290 --> 00:41:26,009 S2: and I mean, there was a lot of hurt. The 736 00:41:26,010 --> 00:41:29,089 S2: Syrians were terrible. And the Israelites had suffered at the 737 00:41:29,130 --> 00:41:31,970 S2: at their hand. And it was probably very personal for Jonah, 738 00:41:31,969 --> 00:41:34,530 S2: which a lot of these things, they are they're very personal. 739 00:41:34,570 --> 00:41:36,810 S2: The contempt that we feel for other people or people 740 00:41:36,810 --> 00:41:40,210 S2: groups or whatever. And yet here Jonah is he's he's 741 00:41:40,210 --> 00:41:43,090 S2: in their cities, you know, he sees ninevite bakers baking 742 00:41:43,090 --> 00:41:46,089 S2: and children playing. And, you know, he's he's among them. 743 00:41:46,090 --> 00:41:49,850 S2: And yet he still holds this heart full of contempt 744 00:41:50,090 --> 00:41:53,250 S2: and he preaches his sermon. And then he's so mad 745 00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:57,090 S2: that they're responding and he leaves town. Uh, but but 746 00:41:57,130 --> 00:42:00,330 S2: before he leaves town, he is still in town when 747 00:42:00,330 --> 00:42:04,330 S2: he is, like spitting up these words into the heavens 748 00:42:04,330 --> 00:42:07,089 S2: and saying like, you know, I knew it. You're you're 749 00:42:07,130 --> 00:42:10,129 S2: a kind and gracious God. It's like these words that 750 00:42:10,130 --> 00:42:12,529 S2: we use in our in our worship songs. And he's 751 00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:15,730 S2: using them like he's mad. He's so angry that the 752 00:42:15,730 --> 00:42:19,850 S2: Lord has been compassionate to the Ninevites. And then he, 753 00:42:19,969 --> 00:42:21,930 S2: you know, the Lord asks him that first time, are 754 00:42:21,930 --> 00:42:24,609 S2: you right to be angry? And he leaves town. And 755 00:42:24,610 --> 00:42:26,969 S2: so you're right, he's in isolation. He's all the way 756 00:42:26,969 --> 00:42:29,290 S2: outside of town, and he's just kind of hanging out 757 00:42:29,290 --> 00:42:33,650 S2: there hoping that maybe the Lord will relent of his mercy, 758 00:42:33,810 --> 00:42:36,969 S2: you know? And so there he is. He's all alone. 759 00:42:36,969 --> 00:42:39,529 S2: He's in isolation. And he has he has chosen to 760 00:42:39,570 --> 00:42:44,330 S2: not feel anything, feel any empathy, any compassion for these, 761 00:42:44,370 --> 00:42:46,930 S2: these Ninevites. And that's what the Lord is calling him to. 762 00:42:47,170 --> 00:42:51,330 S2: The Lord points out his own compassion, his own care 763 00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:55,490 S2: for these people. And he that's what he's calling Jonah to. 764 00:42:55,530 --> 00:42:59,730 S2: And I think, like I said earlier, it's. We can 765 00:42:59,770 --> 00:43:04,090 S2: grow this compassion when we see ourselves among the other sinners. 766 00:43:04,690 --> 00:43:07,410 S2: I have this friend who is a foster mom, and 767 00:43:07,410 --> 00:43:12,170 S2: she's fostered lots of different kids. But there's one that 768 00:43:12,410 --> 00:43:16,009 S2: she there's she's never had a child with such severe 769 00:43:16,730 --> 00:43:21,489 S2: delays as this particular child. And, um, he is old 770 00:43:21,489 --> 00:43:24,049 S2: enough probably, you know, you would picture him old enough to, 771 00:43:24,090 --> 00:43:26,290 S2: to feed himself. And I watched her one day and 772 00:43:26,290 --> 00:43:29,450 S2: she's feeding him. He had, he was shaken as a baby. 773 00:43:30,010 --> 00:43:33,450 S2: And so he's got all of these severe disabilities because 774 00:43:33,450 --> 00:43:35,569 S2: of that. And I said to her, like, do you 775 00:43:35,570 --> 00:43:40,210 S2: ever struggle with like, just feeling so harsh and judgmental 776 00:43:40,250 --> 00:43:43,250 S2: toward his mom? Like, how could she do this? You know? 777 00:43:43,650 --> 00:43:46,210 S2: And my friend said, you know what, by God's grace, 778 00:43:46,210 --> 00:43:50,610 S2: I don't because she said, I, you know, I had 779 00:43:50,770 --> 00:43:52,969 S2: all the help and support I could need. I had 780 00:43:52,969 --> 00:43:55,609 S2: a loving husband, I had a family, I had a 781 00:43:55,610 --> 00:44:00,060 S2: church family. And even so, I found motherhood really frustrating 782 00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:02,899 S2: and hard. And this mom, she was all alone in 783 00:44:02,900 --> 00:44:06,380 S2: the world and she had no help. And it was, 784 00:44:06,420 --> 00:44:10,299 S2: I'm sure, overwhelming to her. And so she said, by 785 00:44:10,300 --> 00:44:13,180 S2: God's grace, I just I try to imagine how it 786 00:44:13,180 --> 00:44:15,299 S2: would be to be her. You know, she's in jail 787 00:44:15,300 --> 00:44:17,739 S2: right now and knowing someone else is taking care of 788 00:44:17,739 --> 00:44:19,620 S2: her baby. And so I try to send her little 789 00:44:19,620 --> 00:44:22,660 S2: updates and pictures from time to time. And I was 790 00:44:22,660 --> 00:44:24,980 S2: so convicted by my friend. Do you see what she did? 791 00:44:24,980 --> 00:44:27,979 S2: She put herself next to this woman and she was 792 00:44:27,980 --> 00:44:31,380 S2: able to she didn't treat her as that sort. She's like, 793 00:44:31,420 --> 00:44:33,540 S2: you know, I was a mom too. And I think 794 00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:36,859 S2: that that's so helpful for us when we're, when we're 795 00:44:36,860 --> 00:44:40,820 S2: trying to develop empathy and compassion for other people to 796 00:44:40,860 --> 00:44:43,259 S2: not just create different sorts of people. You know, we're 797 00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:46,700 S2: all the same. We're all sinners. We've all fallen short, 798 00:44:46,700 --> 00:44:49,060 S2: and we all need the mercy of our great God. 799 00:44:50,260 --> 00:44:54,420 S1: What a great place to end. Shannon. Because I'm thinking 800 00:44:54,420 --> 00:44:58,459 S1: of To Kill a Mockingbird. We talked about this novel yesterday, 801 00:44:58,700 --> 00:45:03,060 S1: and everybody in Macomb and the Cunninghams were down here, 802 00:45:03,060 --> 00:45:05,700 S1: and there's people who live over there and, you know, 803 00:45:05,739 --> 00:45:08,540 S1: these this family, they always do this and they always 804 00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:14,580 S1: do that. How much how much do I look on 805 00:45:14,620 --> 00:45:18,620 S1: with contempt on the people who fill in the blank 806 00:45:18,820 --> 00:45:22,740 S1: vote differently? Uh, go to church at a different place 807 00:45:22,739 --> 00:45:24,900 S1: than I do, or don't go to church at all, 808 00:45:24,940 --> 00:45:29,580 S1: who believe differently who what they think about evolution or 809 00:45:29,580 --> 00:45:32,180 S1: about the young earth or the old earth. All these, 810 00:45:32,340 --> 00:45:35,259 S1: all these baskets that we have that we can put 811 00:45:35,260 --> 00:45:39,500 S1: people in and not see their humanity. That's not what 812 00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:44,219 S1: Jesus did. Right. And, and we often pray or I 813 00:45:44,219 --> 00:45:46,899 S1: hear that prayer, you know, oh, God, break my heart 814 00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:50,620 S1: for what breaks yours. I think we're right here. I 815 00:45:50,620 --> 00:45:55,060 S1: think this is what breaks his heart. Our own outlook 816 00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:59,660 S1: on others who are different from us and how we 817 00:45:59,660 --> 00:46:03,580 S1: can put them in those baskets so easily. And instead 818 00:46:03,580 --> 00:46:08,779 S1: of loving them, be judgmental, hold contempt. You've written a 819 00:46:08,780 --> 00:46:10,980 S1: really good book and I can tell you have really 820 00:46:10,980 --> 00:46:13,779 S1: mind this. Well, I'm sorry. I feel frustrated that we 821 00:46:13,780 --> 00:46:16,219 S1: didn't get to some more of these things, but we've 822 00:46:16,260 --> 00:46:20,020 S1: just scratched the surface of kind of judgy finding mercy 823 00:46:20,020 --> 00:46:23,180 S1: for myself and others in six stories of the Bible 824 00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:27,779 S1: featured resource today at Chris Fabry live.org. Shannon, keep doing 825 00:46:27,780 --> 00:46:30,380 S1: what you're doing, friend. Come back and see us again. Okay? 826 00:46:30,940 --> 00:46:31,900 S2: Thank you so much. 827 00:46:32,700 --> 00:46:37,580 S1: Shannon Popkin POPKIN is her last name. Kind of judgy 828 00:46:37,580 --> 00:46:40,860 S1: is our featured resource. Give me some good news tomorrow. 829 00:46:40,860 --> 00:46:44,380 S1: On the program, Chris Fabry Lives production of Moody Radio, 830 00:46:44,420 --> 00:46:46,860 S1: a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.