WEBVTT - Praise Like Nobody is Watching 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:04.360 Coming to you from the Morning Star Mission sponsored studio. 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:08.120 This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio. 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.160 You know, Easter Sunday now, just a couple weeks behind us. 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.680 We're a few weeks removed from Easter Sunday. I had 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:18.920 an opportunity to sing in our church's choir on Easter Sunday. Nice. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:21.880 You don't get a choir every week, but we do 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.440 sometimes for special occasions. And so I love choir singing. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.360 I love singing in a choir. I love watching choir sing, sing. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.479 I just love everything about it. 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:32.360 I love it. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:37.720 Harmonies. The the joining of voices together to praise the 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:42.720 Lord is truly some of the most awesome in the very. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:47.000 The very essence of that word. Moments are just man like. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:49.240 Getting lost in worship in a choir. 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.519 Makes me think just of eternity. Because, I mean, it's 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:54.960 going to be choir forever of just joining, you know, 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.720 and praises. Yeah. So yeah, absolutely. I'm with you. 0:00:57.760 --> 0:01:00.230 So Easter Sunday I got there early. We they had 0:01:00.230 --> 0:01:02.950 the choir members get there around, I think it was 0:01:02.950 --> 0:01:05.750 715 in the morning so that we could prep for 0:01:05.790 --> 0:01:08.190 the prep. There was going to be three services, and 0:01:08.190 --> 0:01:11.069 so we had to do the practice, getting up and 0:01:11.110 --> 0:01:13.949 off the risers and practice through our songs. And things 0:01:13.950 --> 0:01:17.150 were going well until we did our final walkthrough. And 0:01:17.150 --> 0:01:19.950 as I was climbing up the stairs to get onto 0:01:19.950 --> 0:01:24.150 the stage, the person behind me stepped on the back 0:01:24.150 --> 0:01:28.310 of my shoe. And so my shoe came off and 0:01:28.310 --> 0:01:30.430 I had to try to keep walking. So I grabbed. 0:01:30.470 --> 0:01:32.630 She handed me my shoe, I tried to slip my 0:01:32.630 --> 0:01:35.270 shoe back on, and then as I climbed up the riser, 0:01:35.310 --> 0:01:38.310 now on the stage, there was microphones hanging from the 0:01:38.310 --> 0:01:41.630 ceiling and I proceeded to, after getting my shoe back on, 0:01:41.630 --> 0:01:46.110 hit my head on the microphone and that's how I 0:01:46.470 --> 0:01:49.710 entered the stage. Thankfully, this was just a run through, 0:01:50.270 --> 0:01:52.710 but it was very embarrassing. I mean, I had one 0:01:52.710 --> 0:01:55.430 of those moments. Not for long. I got over it quickly, 0:01:55.430 --> 0:01:57.950 but I had one of those moments like, I look 0:01:57.990 --> 0:01:59.010 like an idiot. 0:01:59.050 --> 0:02:01.290 Well, and then it's the, the problem is. And this 0:02:01.290 --> 0:02:04.850 always seems to happen, is that when one thing happens, right, 0:02:04.890 --> 0:02:08.330 like three other things happen and it just compounds on itself. 0:02:08.330 --> 0:02:08.810 And I'm like. 0:02:08.850 --> 0:02:11.850 It really is. Have you ever seen those videos where 0:02:12.130 --> 0:02:15.130 somebody tripping and as they try to catch themselves, they 0:02:15.130 --> 0:02:17.490 continue to trip and it becomes like this. 0:02:17.690 --> 0:02:18.730 Continuously falling. 0:02:18.770 --> 0:02:22.810 Block long of like the almost fall? Yes. I'm curious 0:02:22.810 --> 0:02:26.130 to know when's the last time you felt really embarrassed 0:02:26.130 --> 0:02:26.970 by something? 0:02:27.010 --> 0:02:27.769 Good question. 0:02:27.970 --> 0:02:31.010 Text messages on this one. When's the last time something 0:02:31.010 --> 0:02:38.690 really embarrassed you? 855 five 7898 800 555 78. 98. 0:02:38.730 --> 0:02:43.130 I'll go. A little show based embarrassment. Oh, no. So 0:02:43.169 --> 0:02:47.410 these ones I. I am known for just saying yes 0:02:47.410 --> 0:02:50.329 to like everything. I'll just do stuff. Carl will go 0:02:50.370 --> 0:02:53.010 young Thunder do this. And and we didn't talk about 0:02:53.010 --> 0:02:54.450 it before, but I'll do it. And I have a 0:02:54.450 --> 0:02:57.609 lot of fun with it. The only one that genuinely 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.840 embarrasses me. Oh, no. Is is creative. So like, Jonathan, 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:02.840 make a song. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:03.200 Oh. 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:06.080 And I'm like, make a song. What do you mean, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:09.520 make a song? And so my face gets all red. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:11.119 Your face does get red. 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.519 Sometimes it feels like it's 100 degrees in this room. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.760 And I'm like, I can't. And everyone's gracious and lovely 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.840 about it, but I'm like, what do you mean I'm 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.560 not a creative person? I'll do it. If you give 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:26.000 me clear directions, I will do it and feel no 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.760 embarrassment about it. But if you ask me to create 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.880 something and then share it with the world, no go. 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:33.799 Feels super. 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:34.920 Vulnerable, right? 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.520 Oh yes. My chest cavities opened up for everybody to see. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.600 Diana, last time you felt embarrassed by something? 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:44.720 Oh, yeah. About a month ago, I fell over my 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.840 own foot. I need my own foot. My pair of jeans. 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:50.280 I was wearing wide leg jeans. I went to step 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:52.800 up on the curb. I my foot got caught in 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:54.000 my jeans. 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:55.480 You gotta watch out for those bellbottoms. 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:57.190 Yeah. And then I'm trying to jump out and get you, 0:03:57.510 --> 0:04:00.589 and you're talking about, you know, the domino effect of falling. Yes. Well, 0:04:00.590 --> 0:04:02.830 that was causing me to fall anyways because I was 0:04:02.870 --> 0:04:05.150 in momentum of walking forward. So my toe got caught 0:04:05.150 --> 0:04:07.830 in my jeans. So as I'm trying to untangle that, 0:04:07.870 --> 0:04:09.670 I got it out. But then it hit the curb 0:04:09.670 --> 0:04:11.550 because I was close, too close to the curb. So 0:04:11.550 --> 0:04:13.590 then I stubbed over the curb. I mean, I went 0:04:13.590 --> 0:04:19.310 down hard, hard on the sidewalk, groceries, purse, everything everywhere. 0:04:19.350 --> 0:04:23.030 And I just sat there like, wow. And I just assessed, like, 0:04:23.029 --> 0:04:25.190 people are probably looking at me. I'm sure they are. 0:04:25.510 --> 0:04:31.430 I heard something recently that speaking of, someone said that 0:04:31.430 --> 0:04:35.150 the test of whether or not you're now considered old 0:04:35.150 --> 0:04:36.110 or young. 0:04:36.350 --> 0:04:36.710 Huh? 0:04:36.750 --> 0:04:37.310 Careful. 0:04:37.589 --> 0:04:39.990 No, no, no, I'm not going to ask you how 0:04:40.029 --> 0:04:42.990 how this test went for you. But this person told me, 0:04:42.990 --> 0:04:45.910 they said, you know, if you're old or young, based 0:04:45.910 --> 0:04:49.909 on how people respond when you fall, no one cares 0:04:49.910 --> 0:04:51.750 if you are. No no no no. If you are 0:04:51.790 --> 0:04:53.270 young and you fall. 0:04:53.310 --> 0:04:53.670 Okay. 0:04:53.710 --> 0:04:54.910 People will laugh at. 0:04:54.910 --> 0:04:55.589 You. Yes. 0:04:55.900 --> 0:04:59.860 If you are considered now older and you fall, people 0:04:59.860 --> 0:05:01.860 will look on in grave concern. 0:05:01.900 --> 0:05:05.460 Yes, they'll run you. Oh my goodness! Are you okay? 0:05:06.420 --> 0:05:09.940 So if you fall and people laugh at you, fear not. 0:05:10.380 --> 0:05:11.780 You're still young. 0:05:12.020 --> 0:05:14.300 What if they just walk by and don't do anything? 0:05:14.860 --> 0:05:17.779 Young. I think it's youth. When they. When people start 0:05:17.779 --> 0:05:21.419 to really express concern. That's how we know we're getting older. 0:05:21.500 --> 0:05:24.179 That's fair, because falls when you're older. And I've already 0:05:24.180 --> 0:05:28.220 experienced a fall when I as now, even at my age, 0:05:28.420 --> 0:05:31.860 where I was like this, you don't bounce back from falls. 0:05:32.060 --> 0:05:34.260 Yeah. You feel that one for a couple of days. 0:05:34.700 --> 0:05:37.460 Embarrassment is a funny thing because your body does have 0:05:37.460 --> 0:05:41.500 a very strong response that mirrors that sort of fight 0:05:41.500 --> 0:05:44.260 or flight of real danger. There is no danger other 0:05:44.260 --> 0:05:48.780 than your own reputation or the momentary feeling of people 0:05:48.820 --> 0:05:52.300 saw this, but that sort of the face turns red, 0:05:52.339 --> 0:05:57.479 the blushing, the heart rate increases. Sometimes there's sweating. There's 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:03.200 physiological symptoms that mirror actual danger. Even though there is none. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:04.520 Isn't that fascinating? 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:06.680 It is fascinating. I think it has to do with 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.719 the level of vulnerability like we're talking about. It makes 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.200 our bodies think that we're in some type of danger 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.159 because of how vulnerable we feel. 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:16.360 And the real danger is that we care what other 0:06:16.360 --> 0:06:20.800 people think. Yes. Because we don't usually get embarrassed when we've. 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.240 We can laugh at ourselves when we do something kind 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.560 of silly in private. 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:26.120 For sure. 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.600 But we don't necessarily feel embarrassed when we're alone. 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:31.520 We actually kind of laugh to ourselves and say, good 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:32.520 thing no one saw that. 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:34.000 Exactly. Exactly. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:34.560 Exactly. 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.480 I saved myself some embarrassment. Embarrassment is usually rooted in 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:43.280 some fear of man. The feeling that other people's perception 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.640 of me. It's pretty important to me. Coming up, we're 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:50.400 going to look at how David viewed what other people 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:54.190 thought of him. He danced before the Lord in such 0:06:54.230 --> 0:06:59.070 a way that his wife looked at him and said, 0:06:59.070 --> 0:07:03.750 do you really think a king should be acting like that? 0:07:04.029 --> 0:07:08.750 David's response is classic, classic. You got to borrow this 0:07:08.750 --> 0:07:11.350 one next time someone accuses you of doing a little 0:07:11.390 --> 0:07:13.790 too much. Just tell them what David did. 0:07:14.230 --> 0:07:18.830 She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her. 0:07:19.230 --> 0:07:22.950 Super di is in the crew. It's Karl and crew 0:07:22.990 --> 0:07:24.270 on Moody Radio. 0:07:24.550 --> 0:07:26.590 Well, there was a song. I remember my kids coming 0:07:26.590 --> 0:07:29.750 home from kids church singing I will dance, I will 0:07:29.790 --> 0:07:32.710 sing to be mad for my king was how it started. 0:07:32.710 --> 0:07:35.630 And then there was a line that was puzzling. I'll 0:07:35.670 --> 0:07:39.750 become even more undignified than this. It's right out of 0:07:39.750 --> 0:07:43.110 second Samuel. Kind of an obscure passage, but this idea 0:07:43.110 --> 0:07:48.750 of becoming undignified. This is David saying this doctor, Ryan Cook, 0:07:48.750 --> 0:07:52.390 he's a professor here at Moody Theological Seminary. He also 0:07:52.420 --> 0:07:54.980 writes regularly for Today in The Word, which is a 0:07:54.980 --> 0:07:57.940 daily devotional. Maybe you're familiar with give us the context 0:07:57.940 --> 0:08:01.179 around this passage of Scripture in Second Samuel. What leads 0:08:01.180 --> 0:08:03.660 up to it? And then what causes David to say 0:08:03.660 --> 0:08:06.260 that he's going to become undignified? 0:08:06.500 --> 0:08:09.700 The story here is that David, very early on in 0:08:09.700 --> 0:08:12.340 his kingship, has decided to bring the Ark of the 0:08:12.340 --> 0:08:16.620 covenant back from obscurity into the center of Israel's worship 0:08:16.620 --> 0:08:19.300 again at the Tabernacle, and to bring it into Jerusalem. 0:08:19.300 --> 0:08:21.220 So the Ark of the covenant was part of the 0:08:21.220 --> 0:08:25.620 tabernacle that God had commanded Israel to create. And in 0:08:25.620 --> 0:08:27.980 order to worship him in the way that God wanted 0:08:27.980 --> 0:08:30.739 them to worship him. And the Ark of the covenant 0:08:30.740 --> 0:08:34.339 was a symbol of God's presence with Israel. It's often 0:08:34.340 --> 0:08:36.220 called like a footstool. If you think of a king 0:08:36.220 --> 0:08:38.780 sitting on a throne and you have the footstool there, 0:08:39.260 --> 0:08:42.020 that's like God's presence was in the Holy of Holies, 0:08:42.020 --> 0:08:44.500 and the ark was his footstool right in the Holy 0:08:44.500 --> 0:08:47.660 of Holies, in the Tabernacle. So it represented God's presence, 0:08:47.660 --> 0:08:51.140 but it also represented God's relationship with Israel, because inside 0:08:51.140 --> 0:08:54.090 the Ark of the covenant were the tablets of the law, 0:08:54.410 --> 0:08:57.610 which outlined right God's relationship with Israel and how that 0:08:57.610 --> 0:09:00.370 was supposed to be governed, and that had been neglected 0:09:00.370 --> 0:09:03.450 for 50 years. All through Saul's reign he seemed to 0:09:03.450 --> 0:09:05.730 not care about the Ark of the covenant. And one 0:09:05.730 --> 0:09:08.810 of David's first acts as king is, we're going to 0:09:08.809 --> 0:09:11.849 obey the Lord. We're going to bring this ark back 0:09:11.890 --> 0:09:14.250 to the center of our worship. So it's a time 0:09:14.250 --> 0:09:15.930 you could almost think of it as like a spiritual 0:09:15.929 --> 0:09:20.170 revival within Israel. And second Samuel six tells the story 0:09:20.170 --> 0:09:23.730 of this procession of David and the priest bringing the 0:09:23.730 --> 0:09:27.290 ark into Jerusalem this joyful time. And that brings us 0:09:27.290 --> 0:09:29.329 to to the passage that we're talking about. 0:09:29.330 --> 0:09:33.770 So this is second Samuel 614 And David danced before 0:09:33.770 --> 0:09:37.850 the Lord with all his might, and he's wearing a linen. 0:09:37.850 --> 0:09:40.130 Is it ephod? Is that how you say it? Yeah. 0:09:40.410 --> 0:09:43.970 And then when he gets to the home where his 0:09:43.970 --> 0:09:48.770 wife is, she's critical of what she has seen. This 0:09:48.970 --> 0:09:51.630 sort of just dancing before the Lord. I've heard some 0:09:51.630 --> 0:09:53.949 people say he sort of danced out of his clothes. 0:09:53.950 --> 0:09:55.109 Is that accurate? 0:09:55.150 --> 0:09:57.870 Yeah, I don't think so. Okay. Um, so David's wearing 0:09:57.870 --> 0:10:00.830 a linen outfit, which is sometimes associated with a priesthood, 0:10:00.870 --> 0:10:04.670 but it's also not the royal regalia. He's not dressed 0:10:04.670 --> 0:10:07.230 like a king. Okay. And so you wouldn't notice that 0:10:07.230 --> 0:10:10.189 normally you could tell a king by how they look immediately. 0:10:10.470 --> 0:10:13.270 But he's leading Israel in worship, and it talks about 0:10:13.270 --> 0:10:15.750 all these musical instruments that are used in it and 0:10:15.750 --> 0:10:17.830 dancing as a part of it. I kind of wonder 0:10:17.830 --> 0:10:21.110 if maybe David wrote a Psalm, particularly for this occasion. 0:10:21.110 --> 0:10:24.550 We don't know that for sure. But he's worshiping wholeheartedly 0:10:24.550 --> 0:10:27.630 with abandon before the Lord there. And I don't know 0:10:27.630 --> 0:10:29.230 if you've had times where you've been on like a 0:10:29.230 --> 0:10:32.750 spiritual high, and then you meet someone and they just 0:10:32.750 --> 0:10:35.270 say something that takes all the wind out of your sails. 0:10:35.910 --> 0:10:38.590 That's that's what happened here. That's what happened here. 0:10:39.110 --> 0:10:41.710 And interestingly, Michael was not there as a part of 0:10:41.710 --> 0:10:44.829 this worship celebration. As David comes home, the text says 0:10:44.830 --> 0:10:48.949 to bless his household. Michael comes out into the streets and. 0:10:48.950 --> 0:10:49.860 Michael is the name of his. 0:10:49.860 --> 0:10:52.380 Wife. Michael is the name of his wife. And she 0:10:52.380 --> 0:10:55.460 criticizes him for it and says, you know how the 0:10:55.460 --> 0:11:00.460 king has demeaned himself and the language that's used there is, 0:11:00.460 --> 0:11:05.099 she says, how the king has uncovered himself in verse 20. 0:11:05.340 --> 0:11:07.940 It doesn't mean that David took his clothes off. What 0:11:07.940 --> 0:11:10.580 she's getting at is that David has acted in a 0:11:10.580 --> 0:11:14.460 way that has demeaned the office of the King. David 0:11:14.500 --> 0:11:18.220 has acted in a way that was really way more 0:11:18.260 --> 0:11:21.900 humbling than a king should act. And interestingly, twice in 0:11:21.900 --> 0:11:27.260 this passage, the narrator calls Michael Saul's daughter, the daughter 0:11:27.260 --> 0:11:28.980 of Saul. And we always have to pay attention when 0:11:28.980 --> 0:11:31.260 the narrator tells us something. Why are they mentioning that 0:11:31.260 --> 0:11:34.340 back in verse 16 says Michael, the daughter of Saul, 0:11:34.340 --> 0:11:37.780 and then again in verse 20, and the tone here 0:11:37.780 --> 0:11:41.420 is she's saying, listen, David, I grew up in the 0:11:41.420 --> 0:11:44.940 royal household, right? I know how a king should act. 0:11:44.980 --> 0:11:45.300 Huh? 0:11:45.420 --> 0:11:48.260 But you're like a shepherd boy. You don't really know 0:11:48.370 --> 0:11:51.130 what you're doing, and the way that you're acting now 0:11:51.130 --> 0:11:53.850 is demeaning the office of the King. All these people 0:11:53.850 --> 0:11:57.810 are looking at you with contempt because of how you're 0:11:57.809 --> 0:11:59.850 expressing your emotion in that sort of thing, in such 0:11:59.850 --> 0:12:03.010 a public way. Not acting in playing the part of 0:12:03.010 --> 0:12:06.450 a king. So that's that's kind of the tone behind this. Yeah. 0:12:06.450 --> 0:12:07.730 So that takes us to. 0:12:08.170 --> 0:12:13.210 This passage of Scripture, this specific verse. Now, second Samuel 622, 0:12:13.370 --> 0:12:16.970 in response to his wife's sort of criticism, he says, 0:12:16.970 --> 0:12:21.530 I will make myself yet more contemptible than this. Some 0:12:21.570 --> 0:12:27.170 translations say undignified. He pushes back almost with like a 0:12:27.210 --> 0:12:29.970 you think you've seen. You haven't seen anything yet. If 0:12:29.970 --> 0:12:32.850 you think this was something, why did he respond this way? 0:12:33.170 --> 0:12:36.450 Yeah. So it's about perspective, right? And so David's saying 0:12:36.450 --> 0:12:41.890 I'm worshiping the Lord wholeheartedly with abandoned authentically, which is 0:12:41.890 --> 0:12:43.890 really a hallmark of David's life. You think of all 0:12:43.890 --> 0:12:46.650 the Psalms, even some of the stories in first and 0:12:46.650 --> 0:12:49.670 second Samuel. And what he's saying is I'm going to 0:12:49.670 --> 0:12:53.830 continue to act in that way. And you'll notice that 0:12:53.830 --> 0:12:55.750 there's a little bit of a translational issue. But in 0:12:55.750 --> 0:12:58.150 verse 22, in the ESV, he says, I will be 0:12:58.150 --> 0:13:00.590 abased in your eyes. In other words, I'm going to 0:13:00.590 --> 0:13:04.390 continue to demean myself in your perspective. But that's not 0:13:04.390 --> 0:13:06.990 really the perspective that I'm concerned about. If you go 0:13:06.990 --> 0:13:11.350 back just earlier, David says in verse 21, he says, 0:13:11.350 --> 0:13:13.990 it was before the Lord. In other words, I was 0:13:13.990 --> 0:13:16.990 worshiping before the Lord. I was more concerned about what 0:13:16.990 --> 0:13:19.790 he thought than about what the people were thinking or 0:13:19.790 --> 0:13:20.910 about what you're thinking. 0:13:20.950 --> 0:13:21.350 Wow. 0:13:21.510 --> 0:13:24.790 And so I'm going to continue to lean into this worship, 0:13:25.270 --> 0:13:27.870 and it's going to get even worse in your eyes. 0:13:28.110 --> 0:13:30.710 But before people really fear the Lord, they'll honor me. 0:13:30.710 --> 0:13:32.550 They'll know what's what's going on. 0:13:32.790 --> 0:13:35.310 Does Michael have a point here? I mean, is there 0:13:35.309 --> 0:13:38.630 any validity to what she's saying, or is she purely 0:13:38.830 --> 0:13:41.670 what's her motivation here in trying to reign David in? 0:13:41.710 --> 0:13:43.390 Is it her own embarrassment? 0:13:43.870 --> 0:13:47.660 I think what's motivating her is she was formed growing 0:13:47.660 --> 0:13:51.699 up in Saul's household, and so her standards for what's 0:13:51.740 --> 0:13:56.620 normal for a king are really coming from that, not from, say, 0:13:56.620 --> 0:14:01.020 the Torah or from from David himself. And in fact, 0:14:01.020 --> 0:14:02.980 that's why David responds to her in the way he 0:14:02.980 --> 0:14:05.140 does in verse 21. He says, it was before the 0:14:05.140 --> 0:14:07.780 Lord who chose me above your father. In other words, 0:14:07.780 --> 0:14:10.620 you're criticizing me for not acting like a king in 0:14:10.620 --> 0:14:13.179 a dignified way like your father did. Well, look what 0:14:13.179 --> 0:14:16.020 happened with your father. Yeah, that's. I'm not trying to 0:14:16.059 --> 0:14:19.300 model myself after him. I'm trying to model myself after 0:14:19.300 --> 0:14:22.540 following the Torah with that wholehearted devotion to the Lord that, 0:14:22.580 --> 0:14:24.540 like Deuteronomy, would call us to. To love the Lord 0:14:24.540 --> 0:14:26.100 our God with all our heart and all our soul 0:14:26.100 --> 0:14:26.980 and all our strength? 0:14:27.020 --> 0:14:29.700 Yeah. And so that's I guess, the final question is 0:14:29.940 --> 0:14:32.620 this made its way into a song. I'll become more 0:14:32.620 --> 0:14:35.180 undignified than this. I remember when my kids would sing it. 0:14:35.220 --> 0:14:38.980 It was usually accompanied by lots of dancing and, you know, 0:14:39.020 --> 0:14:42.500 it was kind of loud and wild. What's the takeaway 0:14:42.500 --> 0:14:43.700 of something like this? 0:14:43.740 --> 0:14:45.970 Yeah, I think we might feel a little bit removed 0:14:45.970 --> 0:14:49.450 from Michael's criticism, like none of us are kings trying 0:14:49.450 --> 0:14:51.090 to act in a dignified role. But I think there 0:14:51.090 --> 0:14:52.570 is a connection with, you know, we live in a 0:14:52.570 --> 0:14:56.330 very secular society and, you know, no one would think 0:14:56.370 --> 0:15:00.970 twice if an adult male jumped and shouted for joy 0:15:01.010 --> 0:15:03.810 if their team won the Super Bowl or something like that. Yeah, 0:15:03.850 --> 0:15:08.050 but if they acted as if God was real, if 0:15:08.050 --> 0:15:13.250 they gave themselves over to abandonment in worship wholeheartedly, they 0:15:13.250 --> 0:15:15.850 kind of look askance at them like, you're kind of weird. 0:15:16.170 --> 0:15:19.010 What's going on with that? And that can be tempting 0:15:19.010 --> 0:15:22.650 for us to sort of modify our relationship with God, 0:15:22.690 --> 0:15:24.850 at least publicly, how we present it so that we 0:15:24.850 --> 0:15:29.290 don't seem socially that weird. And what David here is saying, 0:15:29.290 --> 0:15:32.490 you know, what matters more than what people think is 0:15:32.490 --> 0:15:35.370 what the Lord thinks. And acting before him in a 0:15:35.370 --> 0:15:37.370 way that that really brings honor to the Lord. And 0:15:37.370 --> 0:15:39.010 I think that's something we can learn from the life 0:15:39.010 --> 0:15:39.690 of David. 0:15:39.890 --> 0:15:42.010 I love it, this passage of Scripture, if you want 0:15:42.050 --> 0:15:45.000 to look it up today, it's in second Samuel six. 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.200 Read through the whole thing. It's a fascinating description there, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.080 but there's a lot there. Thank you to our guest, 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:52.680 Doctor Ryan Cook, for joining us today. I want to 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.680 point you to today in the word phenomenal resource. If 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.120 you have not connected with this, you can get the emails. 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.240 You can read it on the app. Just text the 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:06.920 word today to 800 555 7898. Text today to 800 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.120 555 7898. 0:16:09.440 --> 0:16:13.560 Tune in whenever you like. Check out the podcast wherever 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:14.800 you like to stream. 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.200 It's amazing how often we have to kind of push 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:26.120 through our own sense of wanting to appear dignified, wanting 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:30.479 to kind of go with what seems appropriate for the moment. 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:31.360 Sure. 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:36.040 What? Not really wanting to push too far outside the box. 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.040 And I mean, those impulses are strong, right? 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:41.240 Oh, goodness. Yes. 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.420 Like, have you ever even had a moment where, like you, 0:16:44.980 --> 0:16:48.660 you typically pray before a meal, but like everybody else, 0:16:48.700 --> 0:16:50.740 is sort of going and eating and like, you feel 0:16:50.740 --> 0:16:53.340 like in this moment, gosh, it feels kind of awkward 0:16:53.340 --> 0:16:55.220 to like, just stop and pray. 0:16:55.500 --> 0:16:55.820 Yeah. 0:16:55.860 --> 0:16:57.700 You know, and that's such a small thing. 0:16:57.740 --> 0:16:58.700 Oh, you do it at home, but you don't do 0:16:58.700 --> 0:16:59.300 it at the restaurant. 0:16:59.300 --> 0:17:02.660 But then you're like, why? Why is there a little 0:17:02.700 --> 0:17:03.620 barrier here? 0:17:03.660 --> 0:17:03.940 Yes. 0:17:03.980 --> 0:17:06.300 Like, why am I, in some subtle way, worried that 0:17:06.300 --> 0:17:08.260 people might think it's a little weird for me to 0:17:08.260 --> 0:17:09.700 just stop in the middle? 0:17:09.740 --> 0:17:10.140 Yeah. 0:17:10.380 --> 0:17:12.619 And pray. I mean, or maybe I'm the only one. 0:17:12.820 --> 0:17:14.700 Oh, no, of course you're not the only one. I mean, 0:17:14.700 --> 0:17:19.020 I've felt this way in, in even in church about, like, 0:17:19.020 --> 0:17:21.660 lifting my hands for worship. I it's not something I 0:17:21.660 --> 0:17:23.500 ever really did as a kid. I mean, I didn't 0:17:23.500 --> 0:17:25.580 I came to know Jesus about six years ago, but 0:17:25.580 --> 0:17:27.140 I grew up in the church, and I always thought 0:17:27.140 --> 0:17:29.700 raising your hands was a little weird. Now I feel 0:17:29.700 --> 0:17:31.939 called sometimes to raise my hands, but I get nervous 0:17:31.940 --> 0:17:33.859 about it. Or I'm like, I'm lifting my hands in 0:17:33.859 --> 0:17:35.659 front of people and they're gonna see me do that, 0:17:35.700 --> 0:17:38.220 and I get nervous about it. But I always feel 0:17:38.220 --> 0:17:40.699 like when I do it, I'm like, I'm in the 0:17:40.700 --> 0:17:43.010 presence of God right now, and it's just me and him, 0:17:43.010 --> 0:17:45.090 and I don't have to worry about if anybody's thinking 0:17:45.090 --> 0:17:45.730 something else. 0:17:46.090 --> 0:17:49.770 And I really love this conversation about David and his 0:17:49.810 --> 0:17:54.330 undignified worship. The fact that he danced with before the 0:17:54.330 --> 0:17:59.170 Lord with such abandon. And his wife was like, hmm, basically, 0:17:59.170 --> 0:18:02.290 a king would not act like that. I mean, what 0:18:02.290 --> 0:18:05.010 are what are you doing here? And trying to kind 0:18:05.010 --> 0:18:07.770 of rein him in and he, with defiance, is like, 0:18:07.770 --> 0:18:08.850 I'll be even more. 0:18:09.210 --> 0:18:10.490 I love that that. 0:18:10.690 --> 0:18:13.649 You ain't seen nothing yet. And it really got me 0:18:13.650 --> 0:18:18.130 thinking about the the times when we our call as 0:18:18.130 --> 0:18:21.649 a Christ follower is to do something to take some step, 0:18:21.650 --> 0:18:25.530 whether it's in worship or anything else, where we might 0:18:25.530 --> 0:18:27.770 look a little foolish to the watching world. 0:18:27.810 --> 0:18:28.570 Yeah, absolutely. 0:18:28.609 --> 0:18:31.369 Where people might go, what are you what are you 0:18:31.369 --> 0:18:34.490 doing over there? Yeah. You know, I it's my my, 0:18:34.530 --> 0:18:37.730 I have a 15 year old daughter who really prefers 0:18:37.730 --> 0:18:42.760 to read a physical Bible as opposed to what would 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.159 be easier would be just the electronic version. Because she 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:47.320 always has her phone number. 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:48.000 And her age. 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:52.200 For her, always reading the actual Bible. So she carries 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.800 this tattered pink Bible with her absolutely everywhere. And and 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.359 she will open it up. And she's kind of pushed 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.400 past that barrier of like, what will people think of her? 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.800 And she will just we'll we'll catch her on the 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:09.159 sidelines of getting ready for her basketball game. She's got 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.399 this pink Bible open. We'll catch her in the I 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.560 mean and it's and it's such a cool thing because 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.520 I think she she had to push through a little 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.520 bit of a kind of the strange looks of people going, 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:19.160 what do you. 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:20.960 I'm sure, I'm sure she did. 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:23.280 What are you reading? What are you what are you doing? Like, 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.359 that's kind of. It's kind of weird. You're like reading 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:28.200 a Bible right now. Yeah. You know. And what what 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:29.920 do you. What do you say, Jonathan? There's a story 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:31.920 that comes to mind when you think about this idea 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.040 of kind of pushing past what feels uncomfortable, maybe even 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.000 foolish to the world to honor God. 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.990 Yeah. There's this story of of my brother, actually. And 0:19:41.990 --> 0:19:45.230 and he's shared this publicly before, so I feel like 0:19:45.230 --> 0:19:48.110 it's totally fine to share it. So my brother, uh, 0:19:48.109 --> 0:19:53.950 back in 2019, uh, admitted himself into rehab, uh, through 0:19:53.950 --> 0:19:57.230 a lot of different addiction challenges. Uh, he was stuck 0:19:57.230 --> 0:20:00.470 in he went and wanted to get better. And it 0:20:00.470 --> 0:20:03.710 was a Christian based rehab center. And, uh, he moved 0:20:03.710 --> 0:20:06.710 there and spent some time there and, and was being counseled. 0:20:06.710 --> 0:20:09.869 And through the process, I won't talk about everything he 0:20:09.869 --> 0:20:11.950 was going through or that they were counseling him through, 0:20:11.950 --> 0:20:15.189 but he had some stuff that his his counselor said, I, 0:20:15.230 --> 0:20:17.150 before we meet again, I want you to go and 0:20:17.150 --> 0:20:19.950 I want you to process these things, talk like go 0:20:19.950 --> 0:20:22.470 and and just talk with God about these things. And 0:20:22.470 --> 0:20:25.270 so he went out to a fire pit outside at 0:20:25.270 --> 0:20:28.109 the center, uh, and he was going over this list 0:20:28.109 --> 0:20:30.190 that he had written, and he was just feeling this 0:20:30.190 --> 0:20:34.350 gigantic barrier, like he couldn't do what the counselor was 0:20:34.350 --> 0:20:36.669 asking him to do. And he prayed about it, and 0:20:36.670 --> 0:20:39.129 he said, God, I can't do this. I don't know. 0:20:39.170 --> 0:20:41.690 I don't know. I don't know if this is possible 0:20:41.690 --> 0:20:44.050 for me. And he was praying about it. And God said, 0:20:44.530 --> 0:20:47.010 I want you to go over. And he said, God 0:20:47.010 --> 0:20:48.649 spoke really clearly to him about this. I want you 0:20:48.650 --> 0:20:51.890 to go over to this Calvary replica, which Calvary is 0:20:51.890 --> 0:20:54.970 the three crosses? Uh, you know, where where Jesus was 0:20:54.970 --> 0:20:57.970 crucified and the two thieves next to him. And and 0:20:57.970 --> 0:21:01.250 so they had three crosses up in this little outside area. 0:21:01.250 --> 0:21:02.450 He said, I want you to go and I want 0:21:02.450 --> 0:21:05.850 you to kneel at the cross. And my brother had 0:21:05.850 --> 0:21:09.609 an argument with God. He said, he said, that's stupid. Uh, 0:21:09.890 --> 0:21:12.689 you're not there. I'm I'm not going to go kneel 0:21:12.690 --> 0:21:14.650 in front of, you know, a couple pieces of wood. 0:21:14.650 --> 0:21:15.690 How foolish will I look? 0:21:15.730 --> 0:21:18.210 How foolish will I look? That's a that's a dumb thing. 0:21:18.210 --> 0:21:20.890 I'm not going to do that. And he said, God 0:21:20.890 --> 0:21:22.970 kept telling him, you need to go over and kneel 0:21:22.970 --> 0:21:25.810 in front of it. And he said, all right, fine, 0:21:25.810 --> 0:21:28.650 I'll go do it. And he kneeled down in front 0:21:28.650 --> 0:21:30.370 of it, and he said, when he did, it's like 0:21:30.369 --> 0:21:32.570 he saw the feet of Jesus hanging on the cross 0:21:32.570 --> 0:21:35.330 in front of him, like it was that real. And 0:21:35.609 --> 0:21:38.399 he broke down and he said, that was my moment 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:42.320 where I genuinely came to Christ. And the thing, the 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:46.200 barriers that he was experiencing, he said those were lifted 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:48.640 from me. I was able to do the thing the 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.320 counselor was asking me to do, because I finally came 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.879 to terms with Jesus, and it was because I physically 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:59.000 kneeled down in front of a cross replica that I 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.840 thought was silly to do, but Jesus was asking me to. 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:04.359 Ooh, I love that story. Yeah. You know, I'd love 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:06.200 to hear from you this morning. What comes to mind 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.879 for you? What what thing did God call you to 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.960 do that maybe you felt a little foolish at first. 0:22:11.960 --> 0:22:15.520 Maybe looked a little foolish or undignified. But, you know, 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:17.320 it's what God called you to do. Maybe it was 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:19.280 in worship. Maybe it was to go up and talk 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:23.200 to some stranger about Jesus. What's something that God called 0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.240 you to do? That at first felt a little foolish 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:32.600 or undignified. 800, 555 7898. I really want to hear 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.760 your responses on this, because I'm convinced that when we can, 0:22:35.800 --> 0:22:40.389 by God's grace, push past that feeling of discomfort. Man. 0:22:40.390 --> 0:22:42.790 We can walk in new levels of freedom. What's your story? 0:22:42.830 --> 0:22:45.869 800 555 7898. 0:22:46.310 --> 0:22:49.869 Making herself laugh no matter who joins her. It's time 0:22:49.869 --> 0:22:51.950 for Ali thinks it's funny. 0:22:53.030 --> 0:22:56.350 Nothing like a good joke or two. Or a bad 0:22:56.350 --> 0:23:00.989 joke or two to get your Wednesday off right. This is. 0:23:01.030 --> 0:23:01.590 Ali thinks. 0:23:01.590 --> 0:23:01.830 It's. 0:23:01.830 --> 0:23:04.510 Funny. Have you ever noticed that some people only seem 0:23:04.510 --> 0:23:06.550 to get sick on weekdays? 0:23:07.550 --> 0:23:09.149 Hmm. Yeah. 0:23:09.190 --> 0:23:14.310 What is the common denominator between people who only get 0:23:14.310 --> 0:23:17.469 sick on weekdays? Work days, if you will. 0:23:17.790 --> 0:23:18.350 Okay. 0:23:18.470 --> 0:23:19.149 I don't know. 0:23:19.310 --> 0:23:23.550 I know it must have a weakened immune system. A 0:23:23.590 --> 0:23:26.710 weakened immune system. 0:23:27.390 --> 0:23:27.950 Okay. 0:23:28.270 --> 0:23:29.190 That's pretty good. 0:23:30.190 --> 0:23:31.590 When I started to tell that, I was like, wait, 0:23:31.590 --> 0:23:33.230 there's a lot of ways you could go with this. 0:23:33.230 --> 0:23:36.100 Somebody who only gets sick and I'm going gonna use 0:23:36.140 --> 0:23:37.620 sick in air quotes. 0:23:37.660 --> 0:23:38.060 Yeah. 0:23:38.940 --> 0:23:39.820 It's Monday. 0:23:39.900 --> 0:23:43.460 Yes, it's that weekend. 0:23:43.460 --> 0:23:48.100 Immune system again. So I went to Costco the other day. 0:23:48.340 --> 0:23:50.180 This is now part of the joke. I didn't really 0:23:50.180 --> 0:23:52.220 go to Costco, but it's the setup. I never want 0:23:52.260 --> 0:23:52.980 to lie to you. 0:23:53.540 --> 0:23:54.659 But you could say you. 0:23:54.660 --> 0:23:55.700 Went to Costco the other. 0:23:55.700 --> 0:23:57.060 Day. I do go, there you go. Yeah. 0:23:57.100 --> 0:23:59.540 So I went to Costco the other day, and I 0:23:59.580 --> 0:24:02.899 picked up a new one of those new handy dandy 0:24:02.940 --> 0:24:04.340 4 in 1 printers. 0:24:04.980 --> 0:24:05.580 Oh, good for you. 0:24:05.619 --> 0:24:06.420 4 in 1. 0:24:06.460 --> 0:24:08.260 Yeah. You know, it could do all the things. You 0:24:08.260 --> 0:24:11.260 just need one. One little device and it can do 0:24:11.260 --> 0:24:11.899 all the things. 0:24:11.940 --> 0:24:12.379 Very nice. 0:24:12.420 --> 0:24:16.420 Unfortunately, I got pulled over on the way home from Costco. 0:24:16.660 --> 0:24:19.740 I was driving home with my new 4 in 1 printer. 0:24:20.260 --> 0:24:22.859 The cop approached the car. I rolled the window down 0:24:22.859 --> 0:24:24.580 and I asked him if he'd like to see all 0:24:24.580 --> 0:24:27.060 the cool features on my new 4 in 1 printer. 0:24:27.100 --> 0:24:28.260 Interesting of you to do that. 0:24:28.300 --> 0:24:31.220 His response? Just the facts, ma'am. 0:24:32.900 --> 0:24:37.680 Like. What? Just the facts. 0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:38.400 I know, I get. 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:40.000 It. Just the facts. 0:24:40.480 --> 0:24:41.800 What? At the same time. 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:44.600 Try explaining what faxing is to someone who's younger. 0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:46.600 Than you. Don't know what a fax is. 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.879 I know what a fax is, but I know for a. 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:49.800 Fact that. 0:24:49.800 --> 0:24:51.960 There's many people who are just slightly younger. 0:24:51.960 --> 0:24:52.600 Than me. Okay. 0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:54.560 I'm going to ask for a show of hands, because 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:57.360 we do happen to have two younger people in the room. 0:24:57.400 --> 0:24:59.960 We do. Do either of you know what a fax? 0:25:00.000 --> 0:25:00.840 Do you know what a fax? 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:02.639 Do you know fax? Do you know what a fax machine. 0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:04.000 Okay, two for two. 0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:04.359 Okay. 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:04.640 See? 0:25:04.800 --> 0:25:07.240 These are. This is the under 25 crowd. Both of 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:09.080 them knew. Both of them knew the facts. 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:09.720 Hold on. 0:25:10.840 --> 0:25:14.280 James, could you explain a fax to me if I 0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:15.639 told you about it? If I asked you to come 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:17.240 up to this microphone and tell me about it. 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:21.280 No. Maybe not. You said. 0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:21.640 I don't. 0:25:21.720 --> 0:25:25.200 Know. Just the facts. See? 0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:28.240 They got it. You can't be making excuses that why 0:25:28.240 --> 0:25:30.679 you don't find my jokes funny? That maybe the younger 0:25:30.680 --> 0:25:31.920 people don't understand. 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.190 No, no, no, I didn't say. That's why I didn't think. 0:25:34.190 --> 0:25:34.510 It was. 0:25:34.510 --> 0:25:35.950 Funny. I didn't think. 0:25:35.950 --> 0:25:37.670 It was funny for other reasons, but. 0:25:38.150 --> 0:25:39.310 Wow. Do you. 0:25:39.350 --> 0:25:43.190 Do you remember the show that that phrase came from. 0:25:43.230 --> 0:25:43.430 Which. 0:25:43.430 --> 0:25:43.950 Is the facts? 0:25:43.990 --> 0:25:44.190 No. 0:25:44.230 --> 0:25:47.469 Yeah. Just. Okay, so then maybe this is the layers 0:25:47.470 --> 0:25:49.510 of it. There's layers to this joke, and maybe some 0:25:49.510 --> 0:25:50.390 of them are lost. 0:25:50.430 --> 0:25:50.910 Gotcha. 0:25:51.070 --> 0:25:54.510 This was attributed to Joe Friday from Dragnet. 0:25:54.670 --> 0:25:55.110 Okay. 0:25:55.150 --> 0:25:56.430 I heard the name Dragnet. 0:25:56.430 --> 0:25:59.350 I guess he didn't actually say it. Apparently, he didn't 0:25:59.350 --> 0:26:01.350 actually say it, but it kind of became a part 0:26:01.350 --> 0:26:07.510 of the pop culture lexicon. Anyway, I'm Overexplaining jokes. 0:26:07.550 --> 0:26:07.910 Yeah, leave. 0:26:07.910 --> 0:26:13.470 It to 805 five, five 7898. Sometimes you win, sometimes 0:26:13.470 --> 0:26:18.590 you don't. Text jokes to 800 555 7898. Someone out 0:26:18.590 --> 0:26:21.950 there really appreciated that just didn't happen to be in 0:26:21.950 --> 0:26:22.550 this room. 0:26:24.470 --> 0:26:27.469 He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then 0:26:27.510 --> 0:26:31.830 he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Carl 0:26:31.830 --> 0:26:33.580 and crew on Moody Radio. 0:26:33.900 --> 0:26:37.700 Well, coming up, we have a Harvard trained, Johns Hopkins 0:26:37.700 --> 0:26:41.540 trained oncologist and researcher who's going to help us tackle 0:26:41.540 --> 0:26:44.820 this question comes up a lot. Someone will say, I'm 0:26:44.859 --> 0:26:47.379 not sure I can believe in God because I believe 0:26:47.380 --> 0:26:51.179 in science. Are those two opposed? I'll give you the 0:26:51.180 --> 0:26:56.100 short version. They're absolutely not. In fact, there's a sacred 0:26:56.100 --> 0:27:01.540 story that's being told everywhere you look, inside and out. 0:27:01.740 --> 0:27:02.659 More coming up. 0:27:02.780 --> 0:27:05.460 You can take him out of Alaska, but you can't 0:27:05.500 --> 0:27:09.419 take Alaska out of him. Carl is in the crew. 0:27:09.580 --> 0:27:12.140 It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio. 0:27:12.740 --> 0:27:16.500 Whenever I go overseas, I get another glimpse of God 0:27:16.500 --> 0:27:22.420 at work. And whenever archaeologists dig a little deeper, it 0:27:22.420 --> 0:27:26.500 just confirms God. And whenever you look a little closer 0:27:26.500 --> 0:27:31.300 and I'm talking science, all of a sudden creation comes alive. 0:27:31.480 --> 0:27:34.840 Isn't it amazing? The deeper we dig, the closer we look, 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:38.240 and the more experiences we have. God's popping up all 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:39.080 over the place. 0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:42.840 But yet the narrative that's still is so pervasive out there. 0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:46.600 You'll hear people say, I'm sorry. I cannot believe in 0:27:46.600 --> 0:27:50.199 the Bible. I can't believe in God because I believe 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:55.000 in science. Our guest, Doctor William West. That must fire 0:27:55.040 --> 0:27:57.199 you up a little bit. When you hear people say, 0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:00.080 I don't believe in God, I believe in science. That's 0:28:00.080 --> 0:28:03.000 the perfect setup for you, right? You're ready to go 0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:04.679 when someone says that, right? 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:07.880 It's just so ironic because the science is a revelation 0:28:07.880 --> 0:28:10.360 of God. I just find it almost humorous. 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:15.120 Doctor William West, Harvard and Johns Hopkins trained oncologist, a researcher. 0:28:15.119 --> 0:28:19.520 He's advanced cancer care and research over three decades. Give 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:23.080 us the elevator pitch of how you would respond to someone. 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:26.840 You have only an elevator ride from floor one to 0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:29.640 floor eight. I know that's a short amount of time, 0:28:29.640 --> 0:28:31.830 but where would you start with someone who? That was 0:28:31.830 --> 0:28:33.630 what they led with? I don't believe in God. I 0:28:33.630 --> 0:28:35.470 believe in science. 0:28:35.710 --> 0:28:37.750 I would tell them very quickly that they need to 0:28:37.790 --> 0:28:41.590 revisit the science, understand how the pieces fit together, and 0:28:41.590 --> 0:28:44.550 when they see how beautifully they fit together, they'll realize 0:28:44.550 --> 0:28:48.990 they're super intelligent creation. And actually, science is an alternative 0:28:48.990 --> 0:28:51.950 revelation of God. So they're just moving from the scriptural 0:28:51.950 --> 0:28:57.030 revelation to a scientific revelation and seeing the same unimaginable God. 0:28:57.270 --> 0:29:00.070 Doctor West, you must be blown away in your study, 0:29:00.070 --> 0:29:02.910 in your practice, in all the many decades of work 0:29:02.910 --> 0:29:06.470 that you've done as an oncologist and researcher, what are 0:29:06.470 --> 0:29:09.750 some of the most eye popping things that you've discovered 0:29:10.150 --> 0:29:13.350 in recent days, months, maybe even a year or two 0:29:13.390 --> 0:29:17.190 that you go, oh my goodness, there is intelligent design here. 0:29:17.590 --> 0:29:20.310 Well, our bodies are so beautifully made right now, I'm 0:29:20.310 --> 0:29:23.510 actually working on a project where we if you know 0:29:23.510 --> 0:29:25.870 what a T cell is, that's a brain cell in 0:29:25.870 --> 0:29:28.870 our immune system that can fight cancer. And we now 0:29:28.870 --> 0:29:31.580 have the mechanism to put a new set of eyes, 0:29:31.620 --> 0:29:34.620 a new receptor in that T cell to see the cancer. 0:29:34.660 --> 0:29:36.140 So all of a sudden, every T cell in the 0:29:36.140 --> 0:29:38.540 body is fighting the cancer. Of course, that's a man 0:29:38.580 --> 0:29:44.300 made engineered thing. But the underlying possibility is obviously divinely designed. 0:29:44.460 --> 0:29:48.380 Let's talk a little bit about just creation, the creation story. 0:29:48.420 --> 0:29:52.580 How does science tell a sacred story even from the 0:29:52.580 --> 0:29:53.540 very beginning? 0:29:54.100 --> 0:29:56.340 Well, the first sentence of the Bible is my favorite. 0:29:56.340 --> 0:29:59.300 And I wonder, you know, this is 600 years before Jesus. 0:29:59.300 --> 0:30:03.460 And the first words in the beginning and involved light. 0:30:04.020 --> 0:30:06.860 Our best scientists didn't believe that. You know, Albert Einstein 0:30:06.860 --> 0:30:09.420 really resisted the idea that we had a beginning. And 0:30:09.420 --> 0:30:14.220 to realize that hundreds of years before Jesus, an inspired writer, 0:30:14.260 --> 0:30:16.940 was able to write that sentence and say there was 0:30:16.940 --> 0:30:20.380 a beginning and it involved light. And that's exactly what 0:30:20.420 --> 0:30:23.220 science understands and says and describes. 0:30:23.900 --> 0:30:27.220 Do you see? Um, because I've, I had the privilege 0:30:27.220 --> 0:30:31.290 of talking closely with the very skilled oncologist here in Chicagoland, 0:30:31.850 --> 0:30:35.770 and there's a commitment in his craft to really be 0:30:35.770 --> 0:30:39.330 committed to helping heal people. Are you seeing people that 0:30:39.330 --> 0:30:44.570 are looking more closely, deeply at science and contemplating origins, 0:30:44.570 --> 0:30:48.050 or is there still a resistance to that in your profession? 0:30:48.050 --> 0:30:49.050 What would you say? 0:30:49.690 --> 0:30:54.370 Well, 60% of my profession are believers, but generally speaking, 0:30:54.370 --> 0:30:58.050 in science, there's this sort of unwritten don't open the 0:30:58.050 --> 0:31:01.090 door to God. Let's let's keep it quote scientific and 0:31:01.090 --> 0:31:04.370 it's kind of disappointing. It mutes a lot of our 0:31:04.410 --> 0:31:07.330 would be discussion. And that's true in all the sciences. 0:31:07.330 --> 0:31:09.370 In oncology we have a little more freedom. You know, 0:31:09.410 --> 0:31:12.170 people are more willing to talk about their faith. And 0:31:12.170 --> 0:31:15.130 I think it's our responsibility as oncologists to be there 0:31:15.130 --> 0:31:17.770 for them and to be able to have that discussion 0:31:17.770 --> 0:31:19.530 and always look for that opportunity. 0:31:19.890 --> 0:31:22.050 Doctor Bill West, our guest right now, Harvard and Johns 0:31:22.050 --> 0:31:26.810 Hopkins trained oncologist and research. Does cancer reveal a flaw 0:31:26.970 --> 0:31:30.310 in God's design. I mean, so many people, probably every 0:31:30.310 --> 0:31:34.150 person listening at this moment has been touched by cancer, 0:31:34.190 --> 0:31:37.190 whether it's a loved one or a friend or themselves. 0:31:37.670 --> 0:31:40.070 Does it reveal a flaw in God's design? 0:31:40.510 --> 0:31:44.910 No. I think it reflects very well. It's clearly planned. Clearly, uh, 0:31:44.910 --> 0:31:49.229 reflecting a preparation made by God. And, uh, one of 0:31:49.230 --> 0:31:52.430 the discoverers of DNA finally gave up and said it 0:31:52.430 --> 0:31:55.230 must have flown in from outer space. And so I'm 0:31:55.230 --> 0:31:57.990 not surprised that we have cancer because there's so much 0:31:57.990 --> 0:32:01.590 information in that molecule. You know, we replicate our DNA 0:32:01.830 --> 0:32:05.390 1 trillion times per day. So the idea that we 0:32:05.390 --> 0:32:08.230 can do that with perfection is just not realistic. And 0:32:08.230 --> 0:32:10.790 therefore we are going to have mutations. And as we 0:32:10.790 --> 0:32:12.830 get older, they're going to be more likely. At the 0:32:12.830 --> 0:32:14.870 same time, of course, in oncology we're trying to find 0:32:14.870 --> 0:32:18.270 new drugs and identify new targets and be more effective 0:32:18.270 --> 0:32:20.630 at treating these mutations as they arise. 0:32:20.990 --> 0:32:24.830 There seems to be a move afoot in some circles 0:32:24.830 --> 0:32:28.459 of science that are saying, because you mentioned human responsibility 0:32:28.460 --> 0:32:32.220 and free will, and God's put some things in motion. 0:32:32.420 --> 0:32:35.219 And I know that a lot of our cancers, um, 0:32:35.580 --> 0:32:38.900 research is proving that a lot of them are the 0:32:38.900 --> 0:32:42.060 result of a lot of the impurities and things that 0:32:42.060 --> 0:32:46.260 we brought into our systems, either willfully or passively, just 0:32:46.260 --> 0:32:48.420 by living in the world that we live in today. 0:32:48.460 --> 0:32:51.580 How much of your counsel that you give to people 0:32:51.580 --> 0:32:55.219 comes back to God's plan for even how we treat 0:32:55.220 --> 0:32:56.220 our bodies? 0:32:56.860 --> 0:32:59.300 The biggest mistake I ever made was the production of 0:32:59.300 --> 0:33:02.459 tobacco and giving cigarettes to the soldiers during the war, 0:33:02.580 --> 0:33:05.700 in the early years of my career. Lung cancer just dominated. 0:33:05.980 --> 0:33:10.260 And gradually young people have gotten that information and the 0:33:10.260 --> 0:33:12.980 frequency of smoking is going down, thank goodness. But that's 0:33:12.980 --> 0:33:16.180 the clearest example of us having the free will to 0:33:16.180 --> 0:33:19.340 do something that, by hindsight, was not really very bright 0:33:19.460 --> 0:33:22.300 and was certainly potentially damaging to our health. 0:33:22.460 --> 0:33:26.490 Doctor West, I'm curious about your own background and testimony. 0:33:26.530 --> 0:33:28.970 Did you come to faith early in life and then 0:33:28.970 --> 0:33:31.410 know you wanted to go into science, or which came 0:33:31.450 --> 0:33:32.330 first for you? 0:33:32.890 --> 0:33:35.530 Well, you couldn't be my mother's child and not be 0:33:35.530 --> 0:33:37.850 a Christian. So she introduced me to the faith when 0:33:37.850 --> 0:33:39.850 I was old enough for her to hold my hand 0:33:39.850 --> 0:33:42.330 and keep me awake in church. She had a favorite 0:33:42.330 --> 0:33:44.970 book and it was called Portraits of Christ in Genesis. 0:33:45.290 --> 0:33:47.490 It's a classic. I've got it sitting behind me right 0:33:47.490 --> 0:33:50.850 now in my bookshelf. And I read that periodically because 0:33:50.850 --> 0:33:54.330 it's just so beautiful, basically pointing that the whole testament 0:33:54.330 --> 0:33:58.130 is really looking forward to Jesus. I was blessed as 0:33:58.130 --> 0:33:59.850 a child to have a mother who had such a 0:33:59.850 --> 0:34:02.250 deep and wonderful faith. She died of breast cancer when 0:34:02.250 --> 0:34:05.130 I was 21, which is why I chose this particular field. 0:34:05.170 --> 0:34:05.890 Interesting. 0:34:06.090 --> 0:34:09.370 Parents have such a vital and beautiful role to play 0:34:09.650 --> 0:34:11.770 in introducing children to their faith. 0:34:12.050 --> 0:34:15.969 Yeah. It's interesting. Doctor West lost my dad. Uh, he 0:34:15.969 --> 0:34:20.570 was 95 when he passed. Interesting, though. My dad battled 0:34:20.570 --> 0:34:23.290 a couple, 3 or 4 different types of cancer, believe 0:34:23.290 --> 0:34:26.120 it or not. And yet you wouldn't have known it. 0:34:26.120 --> 0:34:29.799 Looking at my dad, my dad was an incredible man 0:34:29.800 --> 0:34:33.000 of God. He had incredible faith. And even when he 0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:37.560 was diagnosed with stage four colon rectal cancer, my dad 0:34:37.560 --> 0:34:40.560 would put a clenched fist in front of his face. 0:34:40.560 --> 0:34:44.799 And with passion he'd say, Oh, Carl, God is so good. 0:34:45.239 --> 0:34:48.840 And my dad's witness, through all of his treatments to 0:34:49.080 --> 0:34:53.560 both the saved and unsaved alike, doctors included, was so 0:34:53.560 --> 0:35:00.360 profound that I. I stood in the operating room and 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.880 looked at a surgeon who said to me, your dad's 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:07.640 outlook on life. And then he said, and he attributes 0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:12.080 it to God is probably one of his greatest assets 0:35:12.080 --> 0:35:15.480 to overcome this. How have you seen that linked? 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:17.320 You know, I wish we had ever done a study. 0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:19.280 I don't think I've ever seen a formal study done, 0:35:19.280 --> 0:35:21.560 but boy have I seen the individuals who have that 0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:23.540 faith and I just seem to a feeling like they 0:35:23.540 --> 0:35:26.299 do better. They're empowered. It seems like they take their 0:35:26.300 --> 0:35:28.100 treatment better and they do better. 0:35:28.140 --> 0:35:31.180 Doctor William West has a new book out. His first. 0:35:31.180 --> 0:35:36.460 It's called Sacred Science Understanding Divine Creation. Fascinating story tells 0:35:36.460 --> 0:35:40.460 about the story that science tells the sacred story. Why 0:35:40.500 --> 0:35:44.540 our creator is a mathematical genius. Fascinating work. I think 0:35:44.540 --> 0:35:47.140 you're going to be interested. Text science will get you 0:35:47.140 --> 0:35:52.500 the details. Text science to 855 five 7898. Just text 0:35:52.540 --> 0:35:56.299 science to 800 555 7898. 0:35:56.340 --> 0:35:59.900 You know, Ali, for thousands of our listeners who look 0:35:59.900 --> 0:36:02.779 for things like this constantly, this is in the wheelhouse. 0:36:02.820 --> 0:36:06.860 This is written by a man with many years of experience, 0:36:07.380 --> 0:36:10.339 and he's got a story to tell. And it all 0:36:10.340 --> 0:36:14.860 comes from faith into science. So check it out. 0:36:14.900 --> 0:36:20.460 Text science to 855 five 7898. Just one word. Science 0:36:20.460 --> 0:36:22.980 800 555 7898.