S1: Loneliness is not a sin. It is a gift and
S1: a friend that God has given to us that we
S1: shouldn't hate and we shouldn't waste, but rather we use
S1: and redeem. And it can actually provide what we need
S1: to restore what is missing in our lives.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages
S2: in a Time When Loneliness. Us is at an all
S2: time high. We need some help and hope for people
S2: who feel the pain of isolation and lack of community.
S2: Our guest is Pastor Steve DeWitt, and he is uniquely
S2: qualified to speak about this malady and help you redeem
S2: the deep ache of loneliness.
S3: You'll hear his story and some of the biblical principles
S3: he's gleaned from a lifetime of study are featured. Resource
S3: is the book loneliness. Don't hate it or waste it,
S3: redeem it. You can find out more at our website.
S3: Building relationships.us. Gary, have you ever experienced a season of
S3: loneliness either before or after you were married?
S4: You know, Chris, as I look back on my life,
S4: there's just one time that I really sensed being lonely.
S4: And that was when I was in California for three weeks.
S4: Or maybe it was for teaching at a university out
S4: there away from my wife and family. And I remember
S4: later on sharing that with someone with a single young
S4: man in my counseling and just telling him how I
S4: felt lonely out there. And he said, well, yeah, but lonely.
S4: He said, that's different from loneliness. He says, lonely. You
S4: knew you're going home later. He said, loneliness is when
S4: you don't have any home to go to. And I thought,
S4: oh my goodness. That's pretty powerful. Yeah, he was a
S4: single and he said, I don't have any home to
S4: go home to. He really felt isolated. So but but yeah,
S4: but in terms of having, you know, long periods of
S4: loneliness in my life, the answer would be no, but
S4: but that one time, you know, that sense of being
S4: lonely because I didn't know anybody out there, you know,
S4: I was just on the campus and didn't know anyone. So.
S4: But I'm looking forward to our conversation, because I do
S4: think there's an awful lot of people today who are
S4: suffering from loneliness.
S3: There's somebody listening right now that that story touched a
S3: nerve in them. And so I want you to get
S3: a little closer to the radio and listen here today
S3: as we meet Steve DeWitt. He has served as senior
S3: pastor of Bethel Church since 1997. Bethel is a non-denominational
S3: church in Northwest Indiana and the Chicagoland and ministers to
S3: its community across multiple campuses. Steve is on the Council
S3: of the Gospel Coalition. He's a board member of Global Action.
S3: His teaching ministry can be heard on his podcast and
S3: media ministry. The Journey Steve and his wife, Jennifer, are
S3: the proud parents of two daughters and are featured. Resource
S3: again is the book loneliness. Don't hate it or waste it,
S3: redeem it. You can find out more at building relationships.us.
S4: Well, pastor DeWitt, welcome to Building Relationships.
S1: I'm delighted to be here and have admired your ministry
S1: for many years, and feel honored to be able to
S1: connect in this way.
S4: Well, you know, behind every book I found that there
S4: is a story. So why would a pastor be qualified
S4: to write a book about loneliness?
S1: Mm. Well, I would go back in my story. Um,
S1: there is a unique dimension to my story. So I
S1: have been a pastor for 30 years, and, uh, for
S1: 15 of those years, I served as a senior pastor
S1: in a very large church as a single man. And, uh,
S1: didn't get married till I was in my mid-forties. I
S1: calculated I had some 8000 nights alone. And, you know,
S1: that's a lot of nights to sort of think about. Man,
S1: what is this feeling I have inside? And why do I, uh,
S1: why do I hurt in the way that I do?
S1: And why is it a kind of chronic nagging? Uh,
S1: to your story earlier, uh, of the of the young man,
S1: you know, this loneliness. What is it? And, you know,
S1: as a as a pastor, I'm I and I, I'm
S1: blessed to pastor a lot of people. I'm, you know,
S1: I'm I'm lonely in a crowd. I've got all these people.
S1: And yet there is this emptiness in me. And so
S1: as a pastor, theologian type I, I thought about it deeply,
S1: read about it, lived out many, many years of it. And, uh,
S1: so I come at this in a in a unique way.
S1: I want to make something clear as well. The book
S1: is not a book about lonely singles who need to
S1: get married. Not at all. I think the worst loneliness
S1: is marital, marital, loneliness. And, uh, so I'm not I'm
S1: not at all advocating, uh, marriage as the solution to that,
S1: but rather to think biblically with a Christian worldview about
S1: what is loneliness, what is aloneness, what is solitude and
S1: what is bad about that, and what can we do
S1: to redeem it? So that's how I come at the,
S1: at the, at the topic.
S4: I think you're qualified and I'm excited about the book
S4: and about our conversation today. Let me just ask you
S4: this while we're on your personal story, uh, when you
S4: were young, uh, did you anticipate and expect that that
S4: someday I'm going to be married?
S1: I absolutely did. In fact, I prayed, I can say,
S1: almost every week for 25 years, from age 18 to
S1: age 43. I prayed every week for not only a wife,
S1: but that wife and prayed for her, whoever she might be,
S1: hoping that, you know, I would get married. And so
S1: I was not a, uh, you know, celibate till the
S1: rapture type, uh, Christian by any means. I was hopeful and,
S1: you know, dated and prayerful and all of that. So, yes, I,
S1: I very much wanted to hope to, but it just
S1: never it never quite got there for me.
S4: Yeah. Well, I would think being the pastor of a
S4: megachurch and being single, I mean, were you the only
S4: one in the country that fell in that category?
S1: I didn't know it at the time, but a couple
S1: of years ago, a couple of megachurch experts who study
S1: megachurches and, you know, are, I think, the leading national
S1: experts on it. Uh, they told me I was at
S1: that time, the the only never married megachurch pastor in
S1: the United States. Yeah, I'm glad I found out later.
S1: I might have been depressed to hear that at the time, but, uh, yeah,
S1: it's apparently something unique about me. Yeah.
S4: Maybe so. Well, there's something unique about all of us.
S4: Let's face it. Okay.
S1: Yeah.
S4: Now, you say that you spent 8000 nights of adulthood alone.
S4: What was the hardest part of those lonely days?
S1: Well, that is a that's a very interesting question. And
S1: I would say that those that maybe are listening who,
S1: you know, live largely alone, are curious as to what
S1: I would say, because, you know, it's one thing you
S1: mentioned your three weeks alone and, you know, uh, speaking
S1: for those who live alone, years are, you know, are
S1: the little violin that's playing right now is our heart
S1: bleeds for you for those three weeks because you get
S1: you get three years, you get 30 years of being alone.
S1: And it's a whole new kind of experience. Um, I
S1: would say one of the things that was such a
S1: challenge for me was the sameness, you know, I would
S1: I would leave my house every morning. And when I
S1: came home, it was exactly the way it was when
S1: I left. And I used to say, the only thing
S1: worse than a lot of noise in the house is
S1: no noise in the house. And I think that there's,
S1: there's a kind of grinding sameness that, uh, aloneness brings
S1: because the only variety of life comes from you. You
S1: don't have that conversationalist, you don't have that, you know,
S1: other interests or hobbies or whatever the other person might represent.
S1: That just brings some, uh, variety, some spice, some, uh, interest,
S1: rather every day is is is just you and I
S1: chafed under the the sameness of my life despite the church,
S1: despite all the people. And truly, I mean, my church
S1: was wonderful over all those years. There's probably, you know,
S1: few pastors that have been in as many homes and
S1: had as many meals and whether that's in their home
S1: or delivered to my doorstep, I mean, our church was
S1: just fantastic. Uh, yet, uh, you know, life is long
S1: and aloneness, which I view as being neither bad nor good.
S1: It is to me, neutral. Uh, aloneness has its own
S1: its own grinding sameness that I found challenging.
S4: I'm sure a lot of our listeners who are single
S4: and perhaps have been single for a while, are really
S4: identifying with what you're saying. And part of what I
S4: hear you saying, however, is that a single person doesn't
S4: have to be a lonely person, and a married person
S4: is not immune from loneliness.
S1: Yes, indeed. And you know, here's where I can speak
S1: on both sides of that. I had 8000 nights of
S1: adulthood alone, and now I've been married almost for 12 years.
S1: I have two daughters. So I've experienced, uh, both sides
S1: of this. And, you know, the apostle Paul, inspired by
S1: the Holy Spirit, first Corinthians seven spoke with a lot
S1: of wisdom. You know, he urged those that are single
S1: to recognize that it's a gift. There are aspects to
S1: singleness that married people would love to have again. And
S1: yet there are aspects to married life that, you know,
S1: marriage is also a gift and has its own unique
S1: responsibilities and its own unique, um, blessings. And so we
S1: just have to, I think, recognize and not have expectations
S1: that either singleness is going to be, uh, lonely because
S1: it doesn't have to be, nor that marriage is going
S1: to satisfy that longing that we have. That is part
S1: of our imago day, part of how God made us.
S1: And that, um, marriage after the fall is also, in
S1: many respects, going to fall short of what our our instincts,
S1: our image bearing longs for. And so I would say
S1: that loneliness in in singleness, the, you know, the the
S1: one thing about that is that you, you maybe think,
S1: if I have a marriage, if I have family, then this,
S1: you know, this ache would go away. I think this
S1: is the particular pain of marital loneliness, and that is
S1: that you have these things and yet you still feel
S1: something is missing. And in a unhealthy marriage situation, an
S1: unhealthy home, those can be very acute feelings and very,
S1: very painful ones. So the book is really written about
S1: loneliness generally, and specifically about Christian solutions and gospel solutions
S1: to loneliness, no matter your marital status, and not to
S1: look to your marital status as the cause of your loneliness.
S1: It's simply the status of your. Of your life and
S1: the gospel solutions apply either way.
S4: Yeah, so? So being alone and being lonely. Are two
S4: different things.
S1: Yes, very much so. Let me unpack that a second. Uh,
S1: so let's go back to Genesis one and two. God
S1: creates Adam, and he identifies that it's not good for
S1: Adam to be alone. Now, I would maintain that Adam
S1: was not lonely. Adam was alone. And God recognized that
S1: for the pinnacle of his creation, which is humanity, to
S1: reflect what he is like within his Trinity, which is
S1: unity and diversity. 3 in 1 that Adam being alone
S1: was an incomplete picture of what he is like, and
S1: so he purposed to create Eve to, uh, fix Adam's aloneness,
S1: not to fix his loneliness. I would maintain loneliness, doesn't
S1: appear until after the fall. Not that loneliness is a sin.
S1: And maybe we'll get into this a little bit, but
S1: it is the result of sin. Both vertically. We're lonely
S1: with God, and horizontally we are insufficiently satisfied in human
S1: relationships after the fall, no matter how robust the marriage
S1: or the friendship may be. So aloneness is neutral. Loneliness
S1: is bad. And solitude is good. And to understand our
S1: feelings in those three categories, I think is very helpful.
S1: You know, our hearts go out to the lonely, we
S1: want to help them. And I think God wants to
S1: help the lonely. And the gospel provides that aloneness is
S1: not itself a problem. Now, some people are extroverted, some
S1: people are introverted. You know, you got there's a spectrum here.
S1: But but being alone is not theologically or biblically or
S1: morally a problem. Uh, it's what happens when loneliness weaponizes
S1: our aloneness against us that it turns in this negative way.
S1: And I would maintain that solitude, which is using our
S1: aloneness in healthy ways, is actually a good thing, and
S1: that we all would do better to cultivate healthy solitude, uh,
S1: in our life. So those three categories, I think are
S1: good ones to put the, you know, the feelings or
S1: the status that we're in and to understand what is
S1: bad about loneliness and what is okay about aloneness and
S1: what can be good about solitude.
S4: Yeah, I want to come back to that in a minute.
S4: But let me let me talk about the current situation,
S4: because I've heard more about loneliness since the Covid pandemic
S4: than I did, you know, the years before that. So
S4: what did the pandemic do in our society as far
S4: as loneliness goes?
S1: Well, I can just tell you that, you know, this
S1: isn't me saying this. This is the Surgeon general. This
S1: is pretty much every study that's out there is that
S1: loneliness is an epidemic. So we had a pandemic that
S1: fed an epidemic. And that epidemic is the aloneness that, uh,
S1: social distancing and sheltering in place and even the rancor
S1: of that surrounded these things as people tribalised and relationships frayed.
S1: All of this only augmented and amplified what was already
S1: a problem, uh, in the 20 tens. So we live
S1: today in a in a time where the medical community
S1: is ringing the bell that we are the loneliest, you know,
S1: humans ever. We're the most connected socially, media and simultaneously
S1: the most lonely people of history. And the pandemic was,
S1: I think, a little bit of an inflection point that, uh,
S1: took cracks that were already there in our society and
S1: in churches and in families, uh, and, you know, political
S1: persuasions and just, you know, magnified those. So here we
S1: are now, what, 3 or 4 years after the, uh,
S1: the core of the pandemic. And you'd like to think
S1: that everyone's, you know, harmonized and restored, and yet we
S1: continue to be fractured and our society is, you know, fraying.
S1: And so I think all of us, probably every listener
S1: here would say, yeah, it's kind of worse now. And
S1: if you were, if you were lonely before the pandemic, uh,
S1: you are you are acutely lonely, likely after it. So, yeah,
S1: we all kind of wish we could go go back
S1: a few years to when it was different than it
S1: is right now.
S4: I know very, very true. I don't know if any
S4: theological school, uh, has a course on the theology of loneliness,
S4: but could you address that idea? Is there a theology
S4: of alone, of loneliness?
S1: Well, there should be. And maybe my book is a
S1: small contribution in that direction, because I think when it
S1: comes to loneliness, you know, much like, uh, I would
S1: say hunger or thirst, you know, understanding why I feel
S1: that way is one step towards curing it. And the
S1: Bible explains why human beings are lonely. And it goes
S1: back to, again our kind of inner architecture as image
S1: bearers of God. We were made for something. We were
S1: made for, for someone. And so we were made for
S1: a harmonised, vertical relationship with God, our creator. We were
S1: made for harmonized relationships with other people, and our hearts
S1: instinctively long for that. There's an ancient memory, if you will,
S1: that we have when everything was right with God and
S1: right with other people. Obviously, sin enters into the world,
S1: and instantly both the vertical and the and the horizontal. Uh, relationships.
S1: Are broken. Adam and Eve instantly feel naked, and I
S1: spent some time talking about nakedness in the in the book. Uh,
S1: much to the editor's chagrin. But I think it's important
S1: to understand why we why we feel physically naked. And
S1: the Bible says that this is part of our imago Dei,
S1: that we we feel a sense of shame now. We
S1: want to hide from God. We even want to hide
S1: from from other people. And those clothes that we put
S1: on are, you know, they're not just fashion, they are
S1: they are theological statements that go back to the Garden
S1: of Eden that explain why we do not feel harmonized
S1: with God and the shame that we feel with true vulnerability,
S1: with who we truly are with other people. So I
S1: kind of make the point in the book that, you know,
S1: we shower every day. We don't think about it because
S1: we're alone. Uh, but if we were showering in a
S1: social setting, it would it would feel very different than that.
S1: And all of that ties into why we feel lonely.
S1: So I would maintain that loneliness is not a sin, okay? Loneliness.
S1: Feeling lonely is not a sin. It is rather a
S1: an indicator that God built into our image bearing to
S1: indicate that something isn't quite healthy, that something is is missing,
S1: that that loneliness is not the presence of something, it
S1: is the absence of something. And we feel that absence
S1: as a kind of longing for someone that will satisfy
S1: that relational longing that we all instinctively have. Now Augustine,
S1: of course, says our hearts are restless until they find
S1: their rest in thee. And so there is this vertical
S1: dimension that that, uh, is essential to who we are.
S1: But there is then this horizontal that, you know, we're
S1: made for community with other people. And when we don't
S1: have that community with other people, we feel a kind
S1: of ache. So, yeah, I talk about loneliness. It's it's
S1: kind of like it's like hunger or thirst or perhaps
S1: even grief where we wouldn't say it's a sin to
S1: be hungry or thirsty or to grieve, but rather we
S1: see that those are the those are indicators that something
S1: is missing or someone is missing. So when we're hungry,
S1: we go get something, get some food, we're thirsty, we
S1: get something to drink when we feel lonely. Uh. We are.
S1: That is a gift from God. Like the engine light
S1: in your car is a gift from Honda or GM
S1: to indicate when something needs to be addressed. And so
S1: I urge then that we take the energy and loneliness
S1: provides a kind of energy, and we take that and
S1: we pursue the very thing that is absent. And we'll
S1: get into this, I think, in a moment about how
S1: the gospel provides avenues for that. And I think the
S1: church is a wonderful context for that to happen. But
S1: my main thing is understanding the theology of loneliness as
S1: a part of being an image bearer of God. It
S1: is not a sin, it is the result of sin,
S1: and it is a gift and a friend that God
S1: has given to us that we shouldn't hate and we
S1: shouldn't waste, but rather we use and redeem. And it
S1: can actually provide what we need to restore what is
S1: missing in our lives.
S3: We hope you're enjoying the Building Relationships podcast. Tell a
S3: friend about this conversation and if you know somebody who's
S3: going through bouts of loneliness, send them to building relationships.
S3: Dot us. Featured resource is the book by Steve DeWitt. Loneliness.
S3: Don't hate it or waste it, redeem it. You can
S3: find that and more at building relationships.us.
S4: Steve, you say that the depth of your loneliness signals
S4: the opposite height of your potential joy. What leads you
S4: to say that?
S1: Well, I in the book, I use the illustration of
S1: my daughters who love to swing at the park. And
S1: so I will, you know, push them. I do the
S1: run under. The higher you go on the one side,
S1: you know, the higher they go, on the other they squeal.
S1: They love it. It's a picture, I think, of the
S1: power of loneliness to indicate the glory of what comes
S1: on the other side of it. You know, when we're
S1: missing God. Okay, that ache for God is a kind
S1: of backhanded compliment to how great it is to know God,
S1: to be reconciled to God. And similarly, that longing, the
S1: pain of loneliness and the ache of loneliness. It's not
S1: a small thing. It's a huge thing. It can take
S1: over your life. It indicates the magnitude of it indicates
S1: its importance, which also, I think, should encourage us that
S1: getting this right there is a great joy on the
S1: other side of this that the absence of it is
S1: very painful, but the presence of it can be a
S1: great blessing in our life and to allow, you know,
S1: allow that, um, acute pain to motivate us to deal
S1: with these matters that are that are absent in our
S1: life and to pursue healthy relationships with God and with others. Uh,
S1: there is a there's a great joy on the other
S1: side that the pain indicates. The importance of. That was
S1: a very poor sentence grammatically, but hopefully it communicated to
S1: the listeners what I'm getting at.
S4: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, absolutely.
S1: You know.
S4: The subtitle of your book says don't hate or waste
S4: your Loneliness. Tell us a little more about that. How
S4: how do you how do you turn it into that
S4: in that direction?
S1: Yeah. Well, so I was born in the Upper Peninsula
S1: of Michigan and have spent time driving around the Upper Midwest. And,
S1: you know, it's beautiful, it's great. But you see these
S1: cabins and these homes and these trailers back up in
S1: the woods. And I oftentimes as I drive through, I
S1: think about these people and I wonder how do they
S1: make a go of it, you know, how are they
S1: doing life? And why would somebody choose to live so
S1: remotely from other people? And I think if we went
S1: around and interviewed, not all, but there would be some
S1: who are running away from mommy, running away from a
S1: painful relationship with dad, running away from, you know, the
S1: the isolation that they have chosen is a reaction often
S1: to the pain of that relational break. And there they
S1: nurse that. Hurt what I would call, uh. They hate
S1: their loneliness. And in that way, they they waste their loneliness.
S1: And you don't have to live in the woods of
S1: northern Michigan. You can live in an apartment complex and
S1: in a sense, be living in the woods relationally, running
S1: away from the very thing that would fill that void
S1: in your life. And so I think the reality of
S1: living in a fallen world, we live with other sinners.
S1: All our family members are sinners. All our friends are sinners.
S1: Everyone in church is a sinner. Inevitably, uh, we pick
S1: up painful things along the way, and we can take
S1: that ache. And we can. It can weaponize inside of
S1: us in ways that lead to unforgiveness. Yeah. Um, you know, disharmony, uh,
S1: you know, a a a commitment to, to never reconciling
S1: or whatever that might be. So we see this all
S1: the time, and it's true all over the world. What
S1: I am advocating for is rather than simply stewing over
S1: your loneliness and hating it, rather than, uh, ignoring it
S1: and wasting it to realize that loneliness is a gift
S1: from God. God built it into us, and it's prickly
S1: and it prods and it hurts, but it does so
S1: for a reason. If it didn't, we would easily ignore it.
S1: We can't ignore it. The pain is a part of
S1: the of the pleasure. It is part of the of
S1: the blessing that God intended to move us towards the
S1: things that are life giving relationships that are life giving, uh, forgiveness,
S1: that provides health. All these things are a gift from God.
S1: You know, I don't like feeling hungry. Like we're doing
S1: this interview right now and it's almost lunchtime, and I
S1: don't I don't I don't like the feeling of hungry.
S1: I don't like feeling thirsty, but I'm glad that I
S1: don't like feeling thirsty because that makes me want to
S1: drink something. And and hunger makes me want to eat something.
S1: And loneliness should make us want what God designed for
S1: us to find satisfaction in. If we don't, uh, resent it,
S1: but embrace it and redeem it. That's the key.
S4: That makes a lot of sense. You know, you also
S4: write that the gospel provides the paradigm for overcoming loneliness.
S4: Tell us more about that.
S1: Hmm. Well, this is part of the whole redeeming of
S1: of loneliness that I think is so exciting. You know,
S1: I obviously I'm a Christian, I'm a Christian pastor, a
S1: Christian author. And so I'm looking at this through the
S1: Christian worldview, through the biblical worldview. And so we we
S1: think of that theology of loneliness that, uh, the pain
S1: of loneliness, not as sin itself, but the result of
S1: sin and an indication that I am not harmonized with
S1: God or and or not harmonized with other people. So
S1: we get to the New Testament and here comes Jesus.
S1: And there's so obviously so much that we could say
S1: about Jesus, but with respect to loneliness, to understand that Jesus, uh,
S1: also experienced loneliness, cries out from the cross, My God,
S1: my God, why have you forsaken me? Uh, we know
S1: that he was alone, certainly during his temptation, until Satan
S1: came along. And Jesus provides a paradigm for humanity as
S1: God intended it to be. And the cross of Jesus
S1: provides a similar paradigm, um, for how we human beings
S1: can live the best life, the most satisfied life, the
S1: life that God intended for us. We look at the cross,
S1: and there in the cross we have ultimate love. We
S1: have ultimate self-giving. I define love as self-giving for the
S1: good and joy of another. Jesus gives all that he
S1: has to us, dies on the cross for our sins. And,
S1: you know, we obviously have little indications of this. Before
S1: the cross, he washes the disciples feet. Uh, he his
S1: his compassion for the poor, the, you know, the grieving mother,
S1: the hungry, etc.. So this whole life was oriented towards, uh,
S1: towards others. And so I encourage and and even in
S1: my own experience, the way to mitigate loneliness is like Jesus.
S1: Rather than looking for people who are going to meet
S1: this ache that I have in my life. To come
S1: along and satisfy the needs that I have, that we
S1: essentially mitigate our loneliness by giving to others the love
S1: that we long for. In other words, try to meet
S1: the loneliness in other people's life. And that example of
S1: Jesus lived out in us that love of God through us.
S1: Mitigates the loneliness in us. Yeah, I would say that
S1: rather than just looking in the mirror and saying, I'm
S1: just so lonely, why am I so lonely and blah
S1: blah blah. To meet the needs of other people practically.
S1: And you're going to get back to your apartment, get
S1: back to your dorm, get back to your house and
S1: be like, where did my loneliness go? I can't find
S1: it now because I have given of myself, you know,
S1: to other people. Yeah. Now, if I could just add
S1: on that this is where I think marriage does provide
S1: a certain kind of advantage when it comes to loneliness. Because, uh,
S1: it's not hard in marriage to find somebody that you
S1: you need to, uh, to live for their joy and to, uh,
S1: to meet their needs. You know, marriage is the most
S1: intense place where the spouse has to live for the
S1: joy of the other. But as you do that in
S1: the strange way that God has designed, it meets that
S1: relational need in our hearts. I think in some ways,
S1: this is why even a pet in a small way,
S1: kind of gets people that direction. Because even if you're
S1: living alone, if you have a pet, there's, you know,
S1: there's something else that you're living for besides yourself. You
S1: you care for that pet, you want to take care
S1: of that pet. And in a small way, and for
S1: some people, maybe it's a large way that also mitigates
S1: that loneliness because you are giving of yourself to someone else.
S1: And that, of course, is all these are little pictures
S1: of what Jesus did on the cross. And so I
S1: would maintain that a Christian who believes in Jesus as
S1: Lord and Savior, but also admires Jesus and wants to
S1: live like Jesus in their life. That example of self-sacrifice
S1: is perhaps the greatest mitigator of loneliness, and that I
S1: call it gospel izing your loneliness. Take that paradigm of
S1: Jesus on the cross and strive in your life to
S1: similarly give of yourself for others. And as we do that,
S1: our loneliness ebbs away.
S4: You know, Steve, in the last session you talked about
S4: serving others, and you mentioned that marriage gives you a
S4: wonderful opportunity to serve another person. It kind of ties
S4: in with the love language concept because it if I
S4: know what makes my wife feel loved and I choose
S4: to speak her love language. Yeah, there's a reciprocal thing
S4: that happens because love stimulates love. You know, the Bible
S4: says we love God because he first loved us. We're
S4: responding to his his love for us. And you mentioned
S4: that pet thing. I had a lady tell me the
S4: other day, she said, you know, my husband's been gone now.
S4: And he died, had been gone for two years. And
S4: she said, I got a pet because I just wanted
S4: something else alive to be in the house with me.
S4: You know, I thought, I see that, you know, and
S4: as you mentioned, it requires service to take care of
S4: a pet. So, yeah, it's pretty powerful. Well, let's talk
S4: about the core theme of your book on loneliness is
S4: what is the core theme and how how did you
S4: discover the core theme?
S1: Well, as I said in the earlier segment, the core
S1: theme is that it is the love of God through
S1: us to others that mitigates loneliness in us. And I
S1: focus on the gospel. Gospel izing our loneliness, not only
S1: looking at our loneliness, but treating our loneliness by the
S1: example of of Jesus, who in utter humility, despite being
S1: the King of kings and Lord of lords, empties himself.
S1: Philippians two gives to us all that he has, and
S1: in doing that provides an example for us as well.
S1: Besides the redeeming, he provides an example for us of
S1: what the kind of life that is the least lonely
S1: and the most satisfying and it has to do with
S1: whether we are oriented toward ourself or oriented towards towards
S1: other people. So pride is our enemy. Uh, it is
S1: the enemy of relational flourishing. It is the enemy of
S1: everything that God intends for us, the blessings of being
S1: image bearers. It complicates relationships. And so, uh, in order
S1: for us to conquer loneliness, we have to get over ourselves.
S1: If I could, uh, vamp on a old sentence, be
S1: killing pride or pride will be killing your relationships. And
S1: I discovered this because of my own selfishness and my own, uh,
S1: you know, self orientation that, you know, over time, I
S1: can look at and see how it has affected key
S1: relationships in my life. I would imagine most of us
S1: probably can look in the mirror similarly and see how our, uh,
S1: our selfishness adds to our loneliness. It it diminishes the
S1: relationships that we could otherwise have, and it amplifies that achy,
S1: lonely feeling inside. So I go back to the gospel.
S1: I go back to the the call of what it
S1: means to be a Christian, that we are to take
S1: up our cross and to follow Jesus. And, you know,
S1: by how do we gain life? By losing our life
S1: and those who lose their life, Jesus says, will find it.
S1: We'll will gain it. And this includes the blessing that
S1: God intended restored relationship with him and others to provide
S1: in our life. And I would see that as a byproduct.
S1: You know, loneliness isn't the main thing in, uh, New
S1: Testament theology, but it certainly is a byproduct blessing of
S1: following Jesus, taking up our cross, living by his example,
S1: denying ourselves, dying to ourselves, and living for the for
S1: the good and joy of others. And that whole gospel
S1: paradigm not only glorifies God, but it produces good in us.
S1: And I would maintain the person who's dying to themselves,
S1: living for others. Serving Jesus is going to have a
S1: hard time going home and finding loneliness. Yeah.
S4: I hope our listeners are listening to what you just
S4: said because it is absolutely, incredibly powerful. And you're right,
S4: it is at the heart of the gospel. Steve, as
S4: we come toward the end of our time together, let's
S4: say that someone is listening today who has chronic loneliness.
S4: I mean, it's just been with them for a long time,
S4: and it's very, very deep. Uh, what are a few
S4: things that they might do that would help them in
S4: that situation?
S1: Well, this is my story. And I want to first
S1: of all say that I understand. I understand. No matter
S1: how contributing you've been to your isolation, your loneliness, perhaps
S1: your aloneness. I understand that, and, um, I want you
S1: to know that there is a way for this to
S1: be redeemed and that God's will is not for his
S1: children to be lonely, to flash a little flicker of
S1: hope that it doesn't always have to be this way.
S1: I think would be the first thing, because one of
S1: the things about loneliness that I think it brings with
S1: it this sense that it will never be better than this,
S1: that I'm always going to feel this way, that, uh,
S1: that this is the, you know, this is the curse
S1: of the rest of my life. And I want to
S1: say emphatically, it doesn't have to be that way for you.
S1: So we begin there, okay. You're not stuck. Secondly, I
S1: would encourage, you know, we were talking about, uh, pride earlier.
S1: There may be reasons that an honest friend, trusted mentor,
S1: somebody that you could ask that they might identify as
S1: being contributing to your loneliness. We all have blind spots,
S1: you know, we all have kind of relational idiosyncrasies, some
S1: of which get in the way of healthy relationships. And
S1: I would encourage you to think about somebody that you
S1: could be honest with and just ask them honestly, what
S1: do you see in the manner of my life, the
S1: my personality traits, the way I relate to people, uh,
S1: that you think cause this, I want to redeem it.
S1: I don't want to be stuck. And would you please
S1: be honest with me? Because, you know, sometimes, uh, these
S1: things can be fairly easily tweaked and a little tweaking
S1: can go a long ways towards, uh, healthy relationships. Obviously,
S1: the gospel urges us to forgiveness and towards a posture of,
S1: of peace towards other people. And maybe that loneliness is
S1: a broken relationship that in some measure could be healed
S1: and would at least, you know, dial down the pain
S1: that it represents. I also would add, I think social
S1: media today is a, um, terribly complicating factor in loneliness.
S1: And all the studies indicate that, you know, the doomscrolling,
S1: they call it bed rodding, where you just lay in
S1: bed and, you know, just constantly going through social media,
S1: all of that. It doesn't help. It hurts. You know,
S1: we think that we're actually seeing what people are doing.
S1: We're more connected. No we're not. God intended us to
S1: be embodied, okay? We're made for face to face relationships
S1: with other people and the whole social media phenomenon has
S1: been hugely detrimental to healthy human relationships. And so then
S1: I would further add that a healthy local church can
S1: be a huge blessing for somebody who's lonely. And not
S1: every church is is healthy. And not every Christian you're
S1: going to say hi to is, you know, is healthy.
S1: But I would encourage Christian people struggling with loneliness to
S1: go to church. But here's the deal. You don't go
S1: to church thinking, who can I meet? That's going to
S1: satisfy the relational longings of my heart. If you do that,
S1: you will remain lonely and you probably won't stick in
S1: that church very long. We go to God's people. We
S1: go to the community of faith, and our heart and
S1: posture is, who here can I serve? Who's relational needs
S1: can I meet? How can I come here as a servant?
S1: How can I carry that cross into the church? Again,
S1: we deal with the ache of loneliness. We give it away. Okay?
S1: You have to give your loneliness away. And a local
S1: church is a great place to do that. And perhaps
S1: even go to the pastor and say, hey, you know what?
S1: I'm coming here. I boy, I have been alone and
S1: I'm just craving community. I want to serve. What can
S1: I do? And I'll bet every pastor would, you know,
S1: he'd smile and be so happy and and I suspect
S1: six months, six months from now, your internal experience of
S1: loneliness will be very different if you give yourself to
S1: serving God in a in a local church. So those
S1: would be a few tips. I got a few more
S1: in the book, but, uh, you're not stuck, brother sister,
S1: you're not stuck. Redeem it, redeem it. And and I
S1: think God will will bless you in your endeavor to
S1: do so.
S4: Well, Steve, that's a good word. And I know if
S4: there are those listening today who are suffering from chronic loneliness,
S4: these these practical steps you just gave are powerful. And
S4: I want to encourage our listeners to get the book.
S4: Read the book. God will use the kind of things
S4: you've heard today on the air as you read through
S4: it again, and think through your way through it. You
S4: can take the kind of positive steps that that pastor
S4: has been talking about. So thanks again for being with
S4: us today, and thanks for sharing a part of your
S4: own journey. And uh, uh, you're actually doing what you're preaching.
S4: You're serving others by writing this book. So thank you
S4: for that ministry. You bet.
S3: But we hope the conversation has been encouraging to you
S3: to dig deeper into this topic of loneliness. Go to
S3: Building Relationships us. You'll see our featured resource, Pastor Steve
S3: DeWitt's book loneliness. Don't hate it or waste it, redeem
S3: it again. Find out more at building relationships.us.
S4: And next week I want to hear your questions and comments.
S2: Dear Gary is coming up in one week and you
S2: can call and leave a question right now on our
S2: listener line. 1866424. Gary again (866) 424-4279. Before we conclude, a
S2: big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice.
S2: Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production
S2: of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry
S2: of Moody Bible Institute.