S1: Whether they realize it or not. Men fight in an
S1: unseen spiritual war for purity. Every day on this battlefield,
S1: they can often become blinded to the devastating consequences of
S1: sexual sin. How do you combat the enemy who wants
S1: to destroy the lives of men?
S2: Men are acting like a soldier who's deluded into thinking
S2: that he's on a luxury cruise ship heading to an
S2: exotic resort, when in reality, he's on a Higgins boat
S2: heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And
S2: our enemies are fierce, and they're attacking us from every direction.
S2: We need to be ready to fight.
S3: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S3: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages Today,
S3: the story of a man who went through some intense
S3: struggles in his youth and then found profound transformation. He
S3: wants to give help and hope for any man who's
S3: trying to overcome sexual sin. And if you go to
S3: the website, you'll see our featured resource today. Fight like
S3: a man.
S1: The subtitle is A Biblical strategy for achieving victory in
S1: the battle for purity. Just go to building relationships us
S1: to find out about that book. And our guest, Emil Esswein. Again,
S1: go to building relationships.us.
S3: Gary, I'm excited for this conversation, especially here at the
S3: beginning of the year, because I think this could be
S3: a reset for a lot of men who have been
S3: stuck in some old patterns for years and maybe even decades.
S4: Well, I think you're right, Chris, and there's no question
S4: about it. This is a major problem in our culture. Many,
S4: many men are struggling in this area. And, you know,
S4: as you begin a new year, it's a great time
S4: to say, okay, God, it's time to change. So I'm
S4: glad about our discussion today and also this book. I
S4: think it's going to help a lot of men.
S3: I do too, and I think that one of the
S3: tricks of the enemy is, the enemy will whisper in
S3: your ear. This is the way it's always going to be.
S3: You'll never change. Don't listen to that voice. Listen to
S3: what Emil Zwein has to say. He's president of Living Waters,
S3: host of the National Bible Bee competition. You may have
S3: seen him there. Co-host of the Living Waters podcast. He
S3: serves as an executive producer of the Way of the
S3: master TV program and multiple Living Waters films. Easy's family
S3: immigrated to the U.S. from Lebanon when he was four
S3: years old, and he and his wife, Rachel, have five children.
S3: If you go to building relationships.us, you'll see his book
S3: Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for Achieving Victory
S3: in the battle for purity. Again, go to building relationships.
S3: Dot us.
S4: Well. Easy. Welcome to building relationships, Gary.
S2: What a joy it is to be with you today.
S2: And let me just say, the thing that blows my
S2: mind is the fact that you guys are willing to
S2: tackle the subject. It's not a popular one, but as
S2: you know, it's one that urgently needs to be addressed.
S2: So thank you for having the courage to do that.
S2: And thank you for having me on.
S4: Well, we're glad you're here. And the topic is you're right, very,
S4: very needed. Well, we could spend the whole hour just
S4: on your story. But for those who don't know you
S4: tell us a little bit about your life and how
S4: you became known as easy.
S2: Yeah, well, I was born in Lebanon back in 1975.
S2: You might remember that was kind of the start of
S2: the major civil war that lasted for ten plus years
S2: in Lebanon. And I was born into a maronite family,
S2: which is a part of the Catholic Church. And the
S2: country was so war torn, so devastating. Our parents saw
S2: no future for us there. And so fortunately, a couple
S2: of my uncles had immigrated to the US some years
S2: before us. They got established, started their careers, so they
S2: were able to sponsor us and bring us over. And
S2: I'm sure as as you can probably imagine, it was
S2: quite an adjustment for me. I was about four and
S2: a half years old. So I'm in this new world,
S2: new culture, new language, and I was trying to sort
S2: of adjust to it all. And I had this somewhat
S2: of a kind of soldier chip on my shoulder, if
S2: you would, growing up in, in that war type of atmosphere.
S2: And so from the outset, I just started getting into
S2: a lot of trouble here in the US and ended
S2: up hitting my high school years where I really got
S2: into big trouble, ended up becoming a member of the Crips.
S2: A gang member, got kicked out of two high schools,
S2: tried to commit suicide in front of my family. But
S2: as I'm sure we'll talk about here in a little bit,
S2: the Lord ended up invading my life August 15th, 1991
S2: and and radically transformed me. And so these are the initials.
S2: It's a lot easier to go by those in the
S2: full name, but that's kind of my story in a nutshell.
S4: Well that's powerful. I think there are a lot of
S4: immigrants to our country who can identify with what you're
S4: saying for sure, right?
S2: Yeah.
S4: Well, you know, this book Fight Like a man comes
S4: out of your own experience and your own struggle in
S4: this area of life. What motivated you to write this book?
S2: Yeah. Well, as you heard in my brief testimony there,
S2: you know, I was I was out there lost and
S2: enmeshed in sin in every way imaginable. And a part
S2: of that was, of course, sexual immorality. And when I
S2: came to Christ, I experienced a freedom unlike anything I
S2: had ever known. You know, before I became a Christian,
S2: I had somewhat of a conscience, having had, you know,
S2: that religious background that the things I was involved in
S2: were wrong. But at the same time, I didn't have
S2: the power to overcome them or find victory in them.
S2: And so when I came to know the Lord, it
S2: was just this, the, you know, the new nature kicking
S2: in and this, this power that I experienced over sin,
S2: it was transformational. And after that, you know, after the
S2: Lord had revolutionized my life, I ended up becoming a pastor.
S2: And now I serve as the president of a ministry
S2: called Living Waters. But in those pastoral years especially, I
S2: began to encounter so many men that were entrenched in
S2: this destructive sin of sexual morality and usually through the
S2: gateway of pornography. And, you know, in the preface of
S2: the book, I talk about how necessity and passion are
S2: really the two ingredients that are most needed for a
S2: book to truly have impact. And so the necessity was huge,
S2: and the passion to see men delivered from this sin
S2: really burned in my heart. And so, so that's what
S2: stirred me up. And and, you know, the fact that
S2: so many men feel hopeless in this is something that
S2: gnawed at me because there is hope in Christ and
S2: there is the pathway and possibility for victory. And so
S2: that that really captivated me, and God burdened my heart
S2: for it. And I've been amazed to see the outcome,
S2: even so far, from those that have been impacted by
S2: the book. It debuted on Amazon as the number one
S2: bestseller and the number one new release in its category,
S2: and the response from men that have read it already
S2: has been very encouraging and heartening.
S4: Yeah. That's great. You know, I think anytime we have
S4: gone through an experience like you went through and then
S4: God delivers us, we're motivated to try to help other people.
S4: You know, that's probably why I've spent my life working
S4: with marriage and family, because we had struggles in our
S4: own marriage in those early years.
S2: Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and as a as a man,
S2: of course, I, I relate to that. The Lord delivered
S2: me from that realm. But I deal with those temptations
S2: and that lure and that pull. And so I come
S2: alongside men in that and saying, look, I'm I'm a
S2: fellow traveler on this road with you as a sinner
S2: who understands the temptations and the lure and, and there
S2: there is hope and victory in Christ.
S4: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're talking about purity and using the
S4: word purity in your book. Define. Define the word purity.
S2: Yeah. So purity would be indicative of a life that
S2: has no admixture of compromise and corrupting sin in it. Now,
S2: I'm not talking about a life of perfection or flawlessness,
S2: but a disposition of the heart that says, look, I've
S2: been redeemed. I've been set free. I've been bought with
S2: a price. I no longer belong to myself. I'm the Lord's.
S2: I know positionally I have perfect righteousness in Christ. He's
S2: redeemed me. He set me free. He's clothed me with
S2: that perfect righteousness. But practically I am called to live
S2: in holiness. Practically, I'm called as first Timothy four seven says,
S2: to discipline myself for godliness. I'm called as Second Timothy
S2: 222 says to flee youthful lusts. And so it's that
S2: determination as a man recognizing, look, I have the spirit
S2: that raised Jesus from the dead dwelling in me. God
S2: has called me to a life of holiness, and now
S2: I'm going to practically obey him through the strength and
S2: grace that he supplies to flee from this temptation and
S2: lure to indulge in sexual sin, that is, that is
S2: dishonoring to the Lord, that's destructive to those that I
S2: love and that hinders my testimony and witness as an
S2: ambassador of Christ in this world for the gospel. Yeah.
S4: Well, the title of the book is Fight Like a man.
S4: Why did you use the metaphor of a battle?
S2: Yeah, that's a really good question. And and it's because
S2: that's exactly what it is. I mean, Gary, you understand
S2: as a man it's a battle. But the sad thing is,
S2: most men don't recognize that. You know, they're living with
S2: a peacetime mentality. When we need a wartime mentality and
S2: we have enemies, I'm sure we'll get into that. But.
S2: But that's a tragedy. And oftentimes men are acting like
S2: a soldier who's deluded into thinking that he's on a
S2: luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora
S2: to an exotic resort, when in reality he's on a
S2: Higgins boat heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And, Gary,
S2: I'm sure you can. You can imagine a man with
S2: that mindset, you know, sauntering off the Higgins boat right
S2: into the midst of the theater of war. Clad in
S2: a bathrobe, some fluffy slippers and a remote control in
S2: his hand, and you and I both know he's going
S2: to get smoked. And so I wanted men to understand
S2: this is a battle, and our enemies are fierce, and
S2: they're attacking us from every direction. We need to be
S2: ready to fight.
S4: What are some of the warning signs that we are
S4: indeed in a spiritual battle in this area, in defeating this,
S4: this temptation?
S2: Yeah, well, I think the lure is the telltale sign, right?
S2: The pull to do that, which is dishonoring and displeasing
S2: in the sight of God. You know, I often tell Christians,
S2: any time you wonder whether or not you should be
S2: doing something that's righteous or that's spiritual, all you have
S2: to do is, is do the opposite of what you're
S2: feeling or are being lured to do. You know, I
S2: don't feel like praying. I don't feel like seeking the Lord.
S2: I don't feel like being in the word. I don't
S2: feel like doing righteousness. You know, that's exactly what you
S2: need to be doing. And so we need to understand that,
S2: you know, that low grade pull toward sin and compromise.
S2: It begins with the with the thought life that begins
S2: with the opportunities to engage in things that we know
S2: we shouldn't engage in. Those are all evidences that we
S2: have enemies, that they're real, that they are seeking to
S2: undermine anything that would bring glory and honor to God.
S2: Because that's why we exist, right? As as the old
S2: confession goes, right to to glorify God and enjoy him forever.
S2: And often we disconnect glorification from obedience. But but they
S2: can't be disconnected. You know, first John says, and this
S2: is love, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments
S2: are not burdensome. So it's this glad obedience that stands
S2: up in the face of these telltale signs that are
S2: seeking again to lead us to dishonor God. I mean,
S2: you could look at the life of job and you
S2: could see what Satan was attempting to do. He wanted
S2: to disprove job. He wanted to destroy him. Well, the
S2: Lord wanted to to establish him and prove him and
S2: strengthen him. And so. So we need to understand that
S2: that those are all again, evidences of of us being
S2: drawn toward spiritual rebellion against the Lord.
S4: Yeah. Will you say that Satan uses like things like discontentment, disbelief,
S4: deification to distract us from the consequences of our sin
S4: and kind of blind us to that? Talk about that, right?
S2: Yeah. Well, you know, Gary, Satan is a is a
S2: one trick pony. There's nothing new about his strategies against
S2: us as God's people. We can go back to Eden
S2: and and see what he did with with Eve there. And,
S2: you know, by, by extension, Adam. He, he, he comes
S2: at them with, with the three pronged approach. And that
S2: is first, discontent. Has God said, you can't eat of
S2: every tree of the garden? In In reality, obviously we
S2: know God had given Adam and Eve access to every
S2: single tree. And not just that, but he told them
S2: they can eat freely of it. There were no limitations given,
S2: but Satan comes in and begins to create discontent. You
S2: can't have it, all right? And suddenly kind of like,
S2: you know, in the Old Testament, in the book of
S2: of Esther with Haman, where it says everything that he
S2: had availed him nothing, just because he couldn't get that
S2: one thing, which was Mordecai bowing before him. Right. So
S2: so he creates this discontentment. Then he hits us with disbelief. No, no, no,
S2: you will not surely die, he said to Eve. You're
S2: not going to die. The consequences for sin that God
S2: says are what they are aren't really what they are.
S2: And he does that with us. He hits us with, no, no, no,
S2: there really won't be ramifications to sexual sin. Well, first
S2: Corinthians 618 tells us that every sin that a man commits,
S2: he does outside of the body, but he who commits
S2: sexual sin sins against his own body. It's set aside
S2: as a distinct sin with radical ramifications. And then finally
S2: he comes in with deification. No, no, no, not just that.
S2: You're not going to die. You will become like God.
S2: Your eyes will be open. You'll know good from evil.
S2: In other words, you'll become autonomous and you'll be the
S2: one to arbitrate what is right and wrong and what
S2: pathway you want to take in terms of morality in
S2: your life. And it's the same thing with us, you know,
S2: he comes at us with that discontent. You can't have
S2: that sexual sin that you want. He hits us with disbelief.
S2: If you do indulge in it, no, don't worry, nothing's
S2: going to happen. And then in essence, you can make
S2: the call on your own life. You're independent. You should
S2: be able to determine what's right and wrong for you.
S4: Yeah, well, I hope that men who are listening to
S4: us today really hear what you're saying, because you're exactly right.
S4: When you said earlier that Satan don't have any new tricks,
S4: that these are the tricks he used way back there with.
S4: With Adam and Eve. Wow.
S2: Absolutely. Yeah. And we need to be. We need to
S2: be ready for those. You know, and that's what I
S2: get into in the book. You know, how can we
S2: then counter those? We need to understand his strategy and
S2: then we need to have a counterattack. Yeah.
S4: What you said at 15 years of age, you were
S4: a gang member involved in drugs. You were living a
S4: destructive lifestyle. What? What really? What were the things that
S4: God used to turn you around?
S2: As I mentioned earlier, I had this sort of built
S2: up tension inside of me that was maybe manifesting in
S2: the form of anger and rebellion, and my pathway was
S2: just leading to massive, massive destruction. And it kept getting
S2: worse and worse. You know, before I came to Christ,
S2: I had this long list of do's and don'ts that
S2: I had formulated in my mind. Things I'd always do,
S2: things I'd never indulge in. And little by little, as
S2: the influence of the world began to set in, all
S2: of that, you know, just kind of became a distant
S2: memory as I began to, to indulge in sin and
S2: and I just. Yeah. Strayed further and further and went
S2: deeper and deeper into rebellion and immorality and and by
S2: God's grace, on August 15th, 1991, I heard the gospel
S2: and its full purity for the first time, that even
S2: though I had rebelled against God, even though I had
S2: sinned in the egregious ways that I had because of
S2: his love for me, because of what Christ did and
S2: his death and resurrection, I can be set free and transformed.
S2: And Gary, I tell you, it was as First Corinthians says,
S2: I was a new creation. The old things had passed away,
S2: everything became new, and it was a realization that salvation
S2: was a free gift. I couldn't earn it, couldn't work
S2: for it. But God would give it to me on
S2: the basis of faith in what he did. And I
S2: just remember that night it was as if though the
S2: scales from my eyes had dropped and I finally understood
S2: what the cross meant. You know, I grew up seeing
S2: it in that church chapel every Sunday, and I understood
S2: intellectually how Jesus died on the cross. But but I
S2: never understood its real essence and power. And so that night,
S2: when I heard God would be willing to set me free,
S2: I placed my faith in him and everything changed the
S2: way I walked, thought, act, and felt. I was literally
S2: a new creation. And. And here I am today with you.
S4: Yeah, well, those of us who are following Christ can
S4: identify with what you're saying for sure. Amen. Well, you know,
S4: I think sometimes when a man is struggling in this
S4: area of life, he tends to focus on I'm talking
S4: about Christians. Now. I've just got to avoid this. I've
S4: got to avoid this. I've got to avoid this. Right.
S4: But but is there a risk in focusing only on
S4: the sin, you know, and just telling yourself, I've got
S4: to stop, I've got to stop.
S2: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that point up.
S2: You know, Paul says in Galatians, I say, then walk
S2: in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts
S2: of the flesh. And it's important for men to recognize this.
S2: You know, sometimes we want to just put something off,
S2: but you got to put something on, and we need
S2: to put on the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to
S2: recognize that he is the very source of our strength.
S2: He's the very source of our victory over sexual sin.
S2: And so there needs to be this pursuit of the Lord.
S2: You don't just turn away from sin. You turn toward
S2: the Lord, toward your Redeemer. Right? You run the race
S2: with endurance, looking unto Jesus, the author, and the finisher
S2: of our faith. And and so, you know, the problem is, though,
S2: Gary is a lot of men don't develop that spiritual
S2: vitality in their life. They're not pursuing the Lord. They're
S2: living half heartedly consumed with the things of the world
S2: and being influenced by the world because we're very, very
S2: impressionable and the world is very influential. It's like a
S2: rock coming up against clay, right? It's going to make
S2: that impression. And we don't pause to be strengthened spiritually.
S2: And so then we drift. So yeah, the issue is Christ,
S2: he must be at the center of it all.
S4: Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of what Jesus said,
S4: that in John 15 verse five when he said, you know,
S4: I'm the vine, you're the branches. Stay connected. You bear fruit.
S4: And then he said, without me you can do nothing.
S2: Absolutely.
S4: So we can't break. Yeah. So, yeah. No, I'm fully,
S4: fully with you on that. Absolutely. Yeah.
S2: No, he he has to be at the very center
S2: of it all. And and you know what, what a
S2: what a novel idea. Right. A Christian pursuing Christ. Um,
S2: I mean, that he needs to be the heartbeat of
S2: our entire existence. And and when we do connect with
S2: him in a real way, recognizing his love for us,
S2: his care for us. I mean, think of what Scripture says.
S2: Casting your cares upon him, for he cares for you.
S2: I mean, the God of the universe who spans the
S2: entire universe with his hand, whom heaven and the heaven
S2: of heavens cannot contain. He cares for us. He thinks
S2: about us. His his thoughts toward us are more than
S2: the sands, like the psalmist said. And when you recognize
S2: that and what Hebrews says, he who comes to God
S2: must believe that he is, and he's a rewarder of
S2: those who diligently seek him. And then you begin to
S2: recognize that when he's your source, you're going to have
S2: the strength you need to to overcome the sins that
S2: beset you. Yeah.
S4: Well, in the book, you talk about that there are
S4: behaviors and there are mindsets that lead to sin and
S4: that we need to deal with the behaviors and the mindsets.
S4: Talk about that.
S2: Yeah. Well, you know, like Romans 12 two tells us,
S2: don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by
S2: the renewing of your mind. You know, truth must be
S2: the catalyst that sets us free. Everything begins in the mind,
S2: and the mind is informed by truth. I love the
S2: saying that says, you know, I start with the Word
S2: of God in the morning because I know I'm going
S2: to be lied to all throughout the day. And so
S2: we needed to be a people who understand that if
S2: we don't get a hold of our mind, if we
S2: don't inform our mind with God's word, with truth, if
S2: we don't put on the mind of Christ like Scripture
S2: talks about as well, then we're going to be swayed.
S2: And whenever you're not leaning on the wisdom that God
S2: has revealed to us through His Word, you're going to immediately,
S2: by default, give in to the wisdom of the world,
S2: which we know is folly. And so we have to
S2: get to that place where we recognize we've created patterns
S2: of thought that have been informed by lies that have
S2: come to us through our enemies, the world, the flesh
S2: and the devil. And we need to reverse those lies
S2: by renewing our mind. And that happens through truth, and
S2: that's found in God's Word.
S4: Easy. Is this only a male struggle, or is it
S4: also something women battle with? And is their battle similar
S4: or different from from men in this area.
S2: Yeah. Boy, is this overlooked. Gary. It's often seen as
S2: a man's issue. And by and large, predominantly it is.
S2: Statistics tell us. Sadly, 75% of Christian men occasionally indulge
S2: in pornography. And again, like I said, pornography is the gateway.
S2: But then that ends up leading to all sorts of
S2: sexual sin. But tragically, 40% of women. Christian women, or
S2: at least those that profess to be Christians, also occasionally
S2: indulge in pornography. And so we need to recognize this
S2: is a systemic issue. It's gone far beyond men. And
S2: I think by and large, it's due to accessibility. Back
S2: in the day, even if a man wanted to to
S2: look at some pornography, at pornographic as a teenager, you know,
S2: you had to have a friend whose dad had a
S2: stash of magazines, or you had to steal a video
S2: from a store because they wouldn't sell it to you
S2: if you're under 18 anyway. But now at the click
S2: of a button, it's accessible. And it's not just like
S2: you have to go to a location, sit down at
S2: a computer. We carry these little tiny miniature supercomputers in
S2: our pockets everywhere we go. And so at a click,
S2: at the click of a button, like I said, you
S2: have access but connected with that now has, you know,
S2: been the element of curiosity. And so even women who
S2: wouldn't naturally have that bent in the same way that
S2: men would, because we are more visually stimulated. But women
S2: now are because of curiosity, beginning to dabble in it.
S2: And it's tragic. And, you know, one of the things
S2: that's been encouraging is even though the book is designed
S2: for men, there have been women who have read it
S2: and who have said that they they found help through
S2: it as well.
S4: Mhm. What would you say to parents who, you know,
S4: discover that a child or a teenager is, is watching pornography.
S2: Yeah. Well I would say before you get there take
S2: the steps that are necessary to prevent it from happening.
S2: you know. Gary, again, like I said, in our homes
S2: we have these computers in our pockets, we have these phones.
S2: And basically they are sewage pipes that could at any
S2: moment be opened. And so parents need to be wary
S2: of that. They need to be understand that they need
S2: to take proactive steps to put software on their young
S2: teenagers phones and on the computers at home that are
S2: going to help prevent that. And then communication to talk
S2: to them about the ravages and the destruction of sexual sin.
S2: So we sat our children down and we we talked
S2: to them about the fact that sex is beautiful. God
S2: designed it, but the world has tainted it. Satan has
S2: perverted it, right? Our flesh has has twisted it. But
S2: it's a beautiful thing. And then in connection with that,
S2: we talked to them about the ravages of sin in
S2: terms of the sexual realm. When we indulge in it
S2: in a way that God has not designed. And so
S2: communication is huge and important. But if your kids are
S2: there and they're indulging in it, you can't treat this lightly.
S2: You know, Satan would have us think that it's not
S2: as major as it is, but it's huge. And so
S2: you have to intervene. You have to get in there,
S2: and you have to change the dynamics that make it
S2: possible for your kids to indulge. And then you need
S2: to begin to spiritually counsel them. You may need to
S2: get your pastors involved and other spiritual leaders to help you,
S2: but you have to take action and do it quickly.
S1: You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast,
S1: and our guest is author and speaker Easy Zwane. The
S1: title of today's featured resource at Building Relationships US is
S1: Easy's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for
S1: Achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Find out more
S1: about it and ways to strengthen your relationships at building relationships.
S4: Us easy. In the book, you talk about a battle plan.
S4: You know, to to really fight against this and you
S4: talk about six C's, the letter C They can help
S4: men fight against sexual immorality. So tell us what these
S4: are and how these can really help us.
S2: You know, Gary, one of the things I talk about
S2: in the book is something that I call preventative preparedness.
S2: And that's kind of the whole peace through strength mentality
S2: that the United States has that doctrine of, look, we
S2: can avoid major battles and wars if if we build
S2: up strength. The point in this is to recognize that
S2: when you indulge in sin, you are using these faculties
S2: and features that should be blowing your mind that that
S2: God designed and that he gave you, but you're using
S2: them as weapons. And so that one is creation. And
S2: that's wheeled wonders as wellsprings for worship, not weapons for wounding.
S2: And I get into the, you know, vision and cognition
S2: what your brain does imagination, creativity, recall memory. And then
S2: the coalition which comes from the word coitus, which is
S2: intimacy and the mechanisms involved in that and reproduction and
S2: and so forth. Then I get into the cross. When
S2: we're committing sexual sin, we're doing it in the shadow
S2: of the cross, where Christ paid the highest price ever
S2: paid for anything to purchase our souls. And we're basically
S2: spitting on the cross and trampling it under our feet.
S2: And so we need to be cross minded in walking,
S2: in purity. And that one is cross. Stop spitting and
S2: stomping on such a sacred symbol, then crisis. We have
S2: to think of the crisis that results from sin, the
S2: crisis of moral authority and conscience and leadership capacity and joy,
S2: and the witness that we're to have for Christ. And
S2: so that one is considered the catastrophic consequences of compromise.
S2: And then, Crown, uh, James tells us, blessed is the
S2: man who endures temptation. For when he has been approved,
S2: he will receive the crown of life. There are spiritual
S2: rewards to be had in eternity by enduring temptation and
S2: not giving into it. And that one is envision endurance,
S2: ensuring eternal enrichment. And then the fifth C is crowd.
S2: And that's recognizing that there's a great cloud or cloud
S2: of witnesses that has gone before us in Hebrews. They
S2: endured it says they were even tempted, but they persevered
S2: through faith. And then there's the crowd of our children
S2: and our grandchildren and our wives and and those that
S2: we've witnessed to and the believers that we've poured into.
S2: We need to recognize our sin affects them. And so
S2: that one is do as the departed did and don't
S2: dispense devastation. And then finally, the sixth C is, of course,
S2: Christ like we talked about before, he is the source
S2: of our strength for victory over sexual sin. And we
S2: need to feast on him. He's our ultimate satisfaction. Not
S2: just that, but Hebrews tells us he sympathizes with our weaknesses.
S2: We can come boldly to his throne of grace to
S2: receive mercy and help. And then first John even tells
S2: us if we do end up sinning, we have an
S2: advocate with the father. These things were written so that
S2: you don't sin. But if you do, we have an
S2: advocate with the father. He paid for our sins. He
S2: wants to come alongside us and help us. And that
S2: last C for Christ and the Alliterated sentence there is
S2: seek the sweet Savior for strength, satisfaction, and sympathetic support.
S2: And so I encourage men to to, you know, dive deep.
S2: I open all those things up in a deep way
S2: in the book, and I encourage them to meditate on
S2: those things, memorize those sentences, think on them every day.
S2: And in the midst of battle, they can go back
S2: to those as well. Yeah.
S4: I would think that section of the book is really,
S4: really going to help men. Yeah, if they will in
S4: fact do what you've just said, you know, then let
S4: the seeds remind them of those areas. But then the
S4: statements that you're making in there. Yeah.
S2: And the thing is, is, you know, we need we
S2: need to give our minds something to do before the
S2: battle so that again, we're prepared. But in the midst
S2: of it, what do you do? You know, you have
S2: to have a place to go. And and men have
S2: told me that, you know, they found these to be
S2: extremely helpful.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Yeah, I can see that. Now, you also use the
S4: word nope. Nope as a part of your battle plan.
S4: What does what does that mean?
S2: Yeah, yeah. So, you know, one day I was counseling
S2: this young man who had been struggling with with sin
S2: and temptation, and, and I said to him, look, how
S2: are you doing? How are you doing with, with pornography?
S2: And he said, you know what? I'm doing pretty good.
S2: I said, well, let me ask you this. How are
S2: you doing with lust? You know, because sometimes I think, Gary,
S2: men can have this mindset. Well, I'm not looking at porn.
S2: I'm great. But sometimes. Do we even really need it? Right?
S2: We have our our memories. We have our own depraved imagination.
S2: And so we don't need that. So, you know, the
S2: young man hung his head kind of in shame, a
S2: little bit discouraged, and he said, you know, I'm not
S2: doing too well there. And Gary, I felt this sort
S2: of zeal and passion for righteousness and purity rise up
S2: in my heart. And I said, brother, you know what?
S2: We just have to get to that place where we say,
S2: enough is enough. I'm done with this. We just have
S2: to say, nope, it's not happening anymore in my life.
S2: And I said, in fact, you know what? We need
S2: to say that word nope out loud because that commits us. Nope.
S2: I'm not doing it. And you know, Gary? Nope has
S2: an edge to it. If someone says, hey, can you
S2: help me move house this weekend? You say, no, that's
S2: one thing. If you say nope, it's like, whoa, okay,
S2: this guy is serious about this, you know? And so
S2: I said, we need to we need to do it.
S2: We need to say it out loud. And I looked
S2: at this young man and I could tell it resonated
S2: with him. It resonated with my own heart. It was
S2: something special kind of happened there. I couldn't explain it
S2: in words. But the next day I'm leaving home to
S2: go to the office. I'm in my car. I'm driving
S2: through my my neighborhood to go to the main street.
S2: When these two young ladies wearing barely anything came jogging
S2: by my car, I caught a glimpse of them in
S2: my periphery. And instinctively I just caught myself saying nope
S2: out loud. And as soon as I said that, I thought,
S2: you know what? I wish there was some acrostic that
S2: could go with the word nope, that would have some
S2: meaning to it. And as soon as I thought that Gary,
S2: the words popped into my mind. Nope, nope. Not one
S2: peek even. Not one peek even. And I've shared this
S2: with so many men and the men that have read
S2: the book. They've told me this has, like, transformed their
S2: mindset and understanding because it becomes this instant, this tool
S2: to where you meditate on it enough, you catch yourself
S2: instinctively doing it and saying it. But then I said
S2: to myself, well, why? Nope. Why not? One peek even.
S2: It has to be anchored to something. And what fuels
S2: it is love. And it's the five main things that
S2: I love. And you know, as I'm thinking about that,
S2: I envision my hand reaching out to grab Ahold of
S2: the handle of the plow. Remember, Jesus said, if anyone
S2: puts his hand to the plow and looks back, he's
S2: not worthy of the kingdom. And that's kind of what
S2: it is. That's what we're doing. We're called to be
S2: focused on Christ, his kingdom. But when we're looking at sexual,
S2: sexually immoral images or thoughts or getting into sexual morality,
S2: that's what we're doing. And so I envision each one
S2: of the five loves represented by each one of my fingers.
S2: And as I'm saying it, each finger is curling around
S2: that handle. And what is it that I love? First,
S2: I love my Lord, the one who paid the highest
S2: price that I mentioned to redeem me and save me.
S2: I'm not going to sin against him. I love my lady,
S2: my wife, who I vowed before heaven and earth to
S2: be faithful to. Who's who's the love of my life.
S2: I love my lineage, my children. That my sin will
S2: affect my grandchildren, even my those that went before me,
S2: my parents and and others. I love them, I love
S2: his lambs. I love God's people, those that I'm to
S2: be a blessing to and to serve. And then lastly,
S2: I love the lost those that I'm called to be
S2: a witness to with the gospel. And so because I
S2: love those things, because I love my Lord, I love
S2: my lady, I love my lineage, I love his lambs,
S2: and I love the lost. Nope. Not one peak even.
S4: Well that's powerful. This whole thing of spirit. The spiritual battle.
S4: How does spiritual depravity sneak into our lives sometimes without
S4: us even realizing it?
S2: Yeah, Gary. Well, that goes with what we discussed earlier,
S2: and that is our fallen, sinful nature. Right. I talked
S2: about the world, the devil and the flesh. The flesh
S2: is our our fallen, sinful nature that is really the
S2: true enemy. As Doctor John Street talks about in his
S2: powerful book, You Know The world and the devil are
S2: outward enemies of opportunity, that a lie or ally with
S2: the flesh. But that's the real enemy. And so, yeah,
S2: our sinful nature will always be there to give a
S2: helping hand toward sin and unrighteousness. And so we have
S2: to understand that, you know, the the problem is, is
S2: that most of the men out there today can have
S2: that self-righteous mindset, especially leaders. You know, the sad thing is, Gary, 18%
S2: of pastors say that they occasionally look at pornography. And
S2: it's that mindset of, no, I can't do it. I
S2: wouldn't do that. Underestimating the sinful nature. But I love
S2: what Voddie Baucham said. You know, he said that the
S2: strongest man in the Bible fell into sexual sin. The
S2: wisest man did, and the godliest man did. If we
S2: don't think that our sinful nature is so depraved that
S2: we can't fall into it, in essence we're saying that
S2: we're stronger than Samson, we're wiser than Solomon, and were
S2: godlier than. King David. And that's just plain stupid, right?
S4: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, we're talking about the. Nope. Thing,
S4: and I really like that. What happens to the man
S4: who allows sexual sin and open door in his life?
S5: Mm.
S2: Well, you don't have to look far, right? I mean,
S2: you look at King David as an example. Um, David sinned,
S2: and he sinned egregiously, and he was forgiven. You remember
S2: the prophet Nathan? After David acknowledged his sin and repented,
S2: he said to him, and the Lord has put away
S2: your sin. And then he said, but the sword will
S2: not depart from your household. You know, Gary. Men need
S2: to recognize that sin has ravages. And oftentimes I think
S2: this confusion hits our hearts and minds. Yeah. God, God's
S2: gracious God, forgives. He does. But there are consequences to sin.
S2: The the sword never departed from David's household. I mean,
S2: there was destruction from that point moving forward. And again,
S2: this isn't to obliterate hope, but it's to bring sobriety. Look,
S2: you can't reverse the fact if you indulge in sexual immorality,
S2: that you have just been notified by your doctor that
S2: you're HIV positive. You can't reverse that, right? That's regret.
S2: You can't change the fact that you've now destroyed a
S2: precious marriage that was beautiful. And and your wife now
S2: has divorced you and left you. You can't change that.
S2: You can't change the fact that that your children have
S2: have been harmed in different ways because of your sexual
S2: sin that led to your divorce and so on and
S2: so forth. Sin is a tangled web, and we need
S2: to recognize that. And so men need to wake up.
S2: They need to they need to pause and say, no, no,
S2: this has consequences. And you know, Gary, the men that say,
S2: I can't help it, you know, I asked men this question.
S2: Sometimes I say, look, if Elon Musk committed $100 million
S2: to you, if you went six months without looking at pornography,
S2: You know that you would do everything possible to do
S2: it right. And so it's not an issue of we can't.
S2: It's that we won't. And as one author put it,
S2: value impacts behavior. We need to reorient our value system
S2: so that it aligns with God's so that we see
S2: sin as hideous as it is, and we see righteousness
S2: as beautiful as it is. And we see his power
S2: as accessible as it is to be able to have
S2: that victory that he provides.
S4: Yeah, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Yes. Amen.
S3: Easy. One of the things that I hear from a
S3: lot of men and women as well, is the the
S3: shame that comes with pornography use and the shame that
S3: keeps you from God because you don't want to go
S3: to him. He's holy and you feel dirty, and so
S3: you just stay alone. Those six C's that you mentioned
S3: finishing up with Christ there is. That is a liberating
S3: message for anybody who feels that shame that you don't
S3: have to stay there. In the shame, you can move
S3: toward God's heart so that he can forgive you and
S3: clean you up. Right?
S5: Mhm.
S2: Oh, man. I can't put into words how so important
S2: this is, and how so glad I am that you
S2: brought it up. And that's where I wanted to head,
S2: you know in that there is hope in Christ. You know,
S2: the book is designed to be and I talk about
S2: that in the preface, what I call gospel centric. Right.
S2: The gospel is often misunderstood as just the instrument through
S2: which we're saved, but in reality, the gospel is the
S2: treasure house of spiritual riches from which we live as Christians.
S2: And the gospel has a part of it. This great
S2: declaration that Paul makes in Ephesians, in him we have
S2: redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins. And you
S2: think about that right when Christ died on the cross
S2: for our sins, he had to pay for all of
S2: our sins or for none of our sins at all,
S2: because we know that one sin. It leaves us outside
S2: of God's kingdom and earns us the judgment of hell
S2: for all eternity. As we saw what and what happened
S2: with Eden, a man and a woman eating a piece
S2: of fruit in a garden thousands of years ago. And
S2: here we are. It shows how serious sin is in
S2: the sight of God. But. But here's where where that
S2: leads us. This leads us to the fact that when
S2: Christ died on the cross for our sins, we didn't
S2: even exist yet to commit those sins, which means that
S2: Christ saw us in our totality. He saw everything that
S2: could possibly be seen about us. And the Bible tells
S2: us he demonstrated his own love toward us. The father did,
S2: and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
S2: Which means that the joy that we experienced, the moment
S2: that we came to know Christ and were saved, is
S2: as valid as when we are in our deepest sin,
S2: because his his redemption of us was real. He knew
S2: all of our sin. He saw us completely, and yet
S2: he still gave his life to redeem us. So the
S2: good news is, no matter how badly you fall and
S2: no matter how much sin you've committed, while there are
S2: consequences to sin, as I mentioned, there is forgiveness, there
S2: is redemption, and there is restoration that you can change
S2: the trend and head in the direction of holiness and righteousness.
S2: I've seen God do this in so many men's lives,
S2: and for those of you listening today, he wants to
S2: do it in your life. Run to him and let
S2: him set you free.
S4: You see, talk to the person who has a loved
S4: one who is involved in sexual sin and a destructive
S4: lifestyle may be a wife. It may be just a friend.
S4: What would you say to that person?
S2: Yeah, well, my heart breaks for them first of all,
S2: because like I said, sin doesn't just affect us. It's
S2: far reaching and it has massive impact. And I think
S2: sometimes there are reasons why people hesitate to do anything.
S2: Sometimes there's just the embarrassment. How do I how do
S2: I talk to this person in my life who's living
S2: in the sin? It's embarrassing. They're humiliated. I don't want
S2: them to feel worse. But that's what love does, right?
S2: It speaks the truth, and it has a confrontational element
S2: to it without needing to be confrontational in the sense
S2: of being harsh or mean, but recognizing that we're sinners
S2: as well, even though our sin may be different, but
S2: approaching that person with intentionality but at the same time
S2: with compassion and with hope, it's hugely important because, like
S2: you said, there is that that element of shame that's
S2: involved there, and there's that sense of hopelessness. But being
S2: able to approach them with truth, but also with the
S2: recognition that this sin only gets worse, right? Sin is enslavement.
S2: As Scripture talks about who you obey, you become that
S2: element's slave in essence. And so you want to you
S2: want to direct them toward help. You want to direct
S2: them toward others who can get into their life and
S2: help them. It's a man accountability and and counsel from
S2: other men and and and direct them toward Christ first
S2: of all. But then those who are servants of Christ,
S2: who can help them in this battle.
S4: Yeah. Talk about the power of prayer in that context.
S5: Mm.
S2: I've often said that prayer is the barometer that tells
S2: us where we're at spiritually as God's people. Because when
S2: you're sitting alone, speaking into the air to a God
S2: whose face you cannot see, whose voice you can't hear,
S2: whose presence you can't feel, it's a true demonstration of
S2: faith that that you know you're doing it despite what
S2: you might even think or believe. And and prayer is,
S2: is the lifeline for every believer. Oftentimes we say, oh,
S2: I guess all I can do is pray. Imagine putting
S2: that in a different way. Oh, I guess all I
S2: can do is talk to the omnipotent, omniscient, Omnipresent, sovereign,
S2: all powerful God of the universe. I guess that's all
S2: I can do. And by the way, the one. The
S2: one who loves me infinitely. That he paid with his
S2: blood to redeem me. Now, look, we have to understand
S2: that it's through crying out to the Lord that we're
S2: going to see intervention in our lives, right? Scripture says
S2: you have not because you ask not. Right. And so
S2: we need to understand those words that James utters it,
S2: that man, we need to cry out to God, casting
S2: your cares upon him. He cares for you, letting your
S2: requests be made known to him, and understanding that that
S2: God divinely works through prayer. It tells us in First
S2: John that if we ask anything according to his will,
S2: he hears us. And if we know he hears us,
S2: we know we have the request we've asked of him,
S2: and we know that his will is that we walk
S2: in purity. I mean, it tells us that in first
S2: Thessalonians four three through eight that that this is the
S2: will of God, that you abstain from sexual immorality, uh,
S2: that you you determine to. To put that off and
S2: walk in holiness. And so it's also a connection with
S2: your God. When you develop that intimacy with him and
S2: that close relationship, it's going to change your desires and
S2: your pursuits as well.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Well, Lisa, I want to thank you for being with
S4: us today because you. You're giving hope to a lot
S4: of men who are struggling in this area. And I
S4: want to thank you also for writing the book. I mean,
S4: I know, I know, it takes time to write a book. Yeah.
S4: And I deeply appreciate what you've done. And to our listeners,
S4: I just want to say, you know, if you're a
S4: wife who's has a husband, you know, he's involved in this,
S4: this would be a good tool whether you give it
S4: to him or a friend gives it to him. But
S4: somebody needs to get it in his hands because it
S4: will help him. So thank you for being with us today,
S4: and may God continue to give you wisdom as you
S4: minister not only in this area, but in other areas,
S4: pointing people to Christ.
S2: It's been an honor, Gary. Thank you again for having me.
S2: And may again the Lord give men victory.
S6: Through the truth.
S2: Of His word, and I hope they're able to mine
S2: that truth from this book. It was a labor of love,
S2: but God was gracious in allowing me to write it.
S2: Thank you again, brother.
S3: Well, there's so much we didn't get to on the
S3: program today. If you go to building relationships us, you'll
S3: see Zane's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy
S3: for achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Again, you
S3: can find out more at building relationships.us.
S4: And coming up next week how to have a mindful marriage.
S1: Don't miss the conversation with Ron and Nandyal in one week.
S1: Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve
S1: Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman
S1: is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association
S1: with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks
S1: for listening.