WEBVTT - Fight Like A Man | Emeal "E.Z." Zwayne 0:00:00.740 --> 0:00:03.680 Whether they realize it or not. Men fight in an 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:09.680 unseen spiritual war for purity. Every day on this battlefield, 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.340 they can often become blinded to the devastating consequences of 0:00:13.340 --> 0:00:17.450 sexual sin. How do you combat the enemy who wants 0:00:17.450 --> 0:00:19.430 to destroy the lives of men? 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:26.060 Men are acting like a soldier who's deluded into thinking 0:00:26.060 --> 0:00:28.760 that he's on a luxury cruise ship heading to an 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:32.030 exotic resort, when in reality, he's on a Higgins boat 0:00:32.060 --> 0:00:34.610 heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And 0:00:34.610 --> 0:00:37.670 our enemies are fierce, and they're attacking us from every direction. 0:00:37.670 --> 0:00:39.260 We need to be ready to fight. 0:00:43.130 --> 0:00:46.700 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:46.700 --> 0:00:50.210 the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages Today, 0:00:50.210 --> 0:00:52.460 the story of a man who went through some intense 0:00:52.460 --> 0:00:57.350 struggles in his youth and then found profound transformation. He 0:00:57.350 --> 0:00:59.810 wants to give help and hope for any man who's 0:00:59.850 --> 0:01:02.970 trying to overcome sexual sin. And if you go to 0:01:02.970 --> 0:01:06.600 the website, you'll see our featured resource today. Fight like 0:01:06.630 --> 0:01:07.500 a man. 0:01:07.530 --> 0:01:11.370 The subtitle is A Biblical strategy for achieving victory in 0:01:11.370 --> 0:01:15.420 the battle for purity. Just go to building relationships us 0:01:15.450 --> 0:01:19.860 to find out about that book. And our guest, Emil Esswein. Again, 0:01:19.860 --> 0:01:22.350 go to building relationships.us. 0:01:22.380 --> 0:01:25.830 Gary, I'm excited for this conversation, especially here at the 0:01:25.830 --> 0:01:28.619 beginning of the year, because I think this could be 0:01:28.620 --> 0:01:31.560 a reset for a lot of men who have been 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:36.209 stuck in some old patterns for years and maybe even decades. 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:38.790 Well, I think you're right, Chris, and there's no question 0:01:38.790 --> 0:01:43.080 about it. This is a major problem in our culture. Many, 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.600 many men are struggling in this area. And, you know, 0:01:45.630 --> 0:01:47.940 as you begin a new year, it's a great time 0:01:47.940 --> 0:01:50.910 to say, okay, God, it's time to change. So I'm 0:01:50.910 --> 0:01:53.640 glad about our discussion today and also this book. I 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.320 think it's going to help a lot of men. 0:01:55.350 --> 0:01:57.330 I do too, and I think that one of the 0:01:57.330 --> 0:02:00.510 tricks of the enemy is, the enemy will whisper in 0:02:00.510 --> 0:02:02.940 your ear. This is the way it's always going to be. 0:02:02.970 --> 0:02:06.750 You'll never change. Don't listen to that voice. Listen to 0:02:06.780 --> 0:02:11.760 what Emil Zwein has to say. He's president of Living Waters, 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.670 host of the National Bible Bee competition. You may have 0:02:14.669 --> 0:02:17.880 seen him there. Co-host of the Living Waters podcast. He 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.460 serves as an executive producer of the Way of the 0:02:20.460 --> 0:02:25.769 master TV program and multiple Living Waters films. Easy's family 0:02:25.770 --> 0:02:28.770 immigrated to the U.S. from Lebanon when he was four 0:02:28.770 --> 0:02:32.070 years old, and he and his wife, Rachel, have five children. 0:02:32.070 --> 0:02:35.280 If you go to building relationships.us, you'll see his book 0:02:35.310 --> 0:02:39.419 Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for Achieving Victory 0:02:39.419 --> 0:02:42.900 in the battle for purity. Again, go to building relationships. 0:02:42.900 --> 0:02:44.100 Dot us. 0:02:44.130 --> 0:02:47.520 Well. Easy. Welcome to building relationships, Gary. 0:02:47.550 --> 0:02:49.380 What a joy it is to be with you today. 0:02:49.380 --> 0:02:52.110 And let me just say, the thing that blows my 0:02:52.110 --> 0:02:53.790 mind is the fact that you guys are willing to 0:02:53.820 --> 0:02:56.940 tackle the subject. It's not a popular one, but as 0:02:56.940 --> 0:03:00.459 you know, it's one that urgently needs to be addressed. 0:03:00.460 --> 0:03:02.560 So thank you for having the courage to do that. 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:03.760 And thank you for having me on. 0:03:03.790 --> 0:03:06.940 Well, we're glad you're here. And the topic is you're right, very, 0:03:06.940 --> 0:03:10.540 very needed. Well, we could spend the whole hour just 0:03:10.570 --> 0:03:13.750 on your story. But for those who don't know you 0:03:13.750 --> 0:03:16.300 tell us a little bit about your life and how 0:03:16.300 --> 0:03:18.400 you became known as easy. 0:03:18.730 --> 0:03:22.929 Yeah, well, I was born in Lebanon back in 1975. 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.450 You might remember that was kind of the start of 0:03:25.450 --> 0:03:28.840 the major civil war that lasted for ten plus years 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:35.380 in Lebanon. And I was born into a maronite family, 0:03:35.380 --> 0:03:38.230 which is a part of the Catholic Church. And the 0:03:38.230 --> 0:03:41.650 country was so war torn, so devastating. Our parents saw 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:44.080 no future for us there. And so fortunately, a couple 0:03:44.110 --> 0:03:46.810 of my uncles had immigrated to the US some years 0:03:46.810 --> 0:03:49.600 before us. They got established, started their careers, so they 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.750 were able to sponsor us and bring us over. And 0:03:52.780 --> 0:03:56.810 I'm sure as as you can probably imagine, it was 0:03:56.810 --> 0:03:58.850 quite an adjustment for me. I was about four and 0:03:58.850 --> 0:04:01.730 a half years old. So I'm in this new world, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.850 new culture, new language, and I was trying to sort 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.070 of adjust to it all. And I had this somewhat 0:04:07.100 --> 0:04:10.100 of a kind of soldier chip on my shoulder, if 0:04:10.100 --> 0:04:13.760 you would, growing up in, in that war type of atmosphere. 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.850 And so from the outset, I just started getting into 0:04:16.850 --> 0:04:19.580 a lot of trouble here in the US and ended 0:04:19.580 --> 0:04:22.910 up hitting my high school years where I really got 0:04:22.910 --> 0:04:26.180 into big trouble, ended up becoming a member of the Crips. 0:04:26.210 --> 0:04:28.760 A gang member, got kicked out of two high schools, 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:30.950 tried to commit suicide in front of my family. But 0:04:30.950 --> 0:04:32.900 as I'm sure we'll talk about here in a little bit, 0:04:33.020 --> 0:04:36.830 the Lord ended up invading my life August 15th, 1991 0:04:36.830 --> 0:04:41.779 and and radically transformed me. And so these are the initials. 0:04:41.810 --> 0:04:44.239 It's a lot easier to go by those in the 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.330 full name, but that's kind of my story in a nutshell. 0:04:47.570 --> 0:04:50.510 Well that's powerful. I think there are a lot of 0:04:50.510 --> 0:04:54.200 immigrants to our country who can identify with what you're 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:55.670 saying for sure, right? 0:04:55.700 --> 0:04:56.450 Yeah. 0:04:56.630 --> 0:04:59.690 Well, you know, this book Fight Like a man comes 0:04:59.690 --> 0:05:02.240 out of your own experience and your own struggle in 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:06.560 this area of life. What motivated you to write this book? 0:05:07.130 --> 0:05:10.880 Yeah. Well, as you heard in my brief testimony there, 0:05:10.910 --> 0:05:14.210 you know, I was I was out there lost and 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.730 enmeshed in sin in every way imaginable. And a part 0:05:16.730 --> 0:05:19.669 of that was, of course, sexual immorality. And when I 0:05:19.670 --> 0:05:23.600 came to Christ, I experienced a freedom unlike anything I 0:05:23.630 --> 0:05:25.550 had ever known. You know, before I became a Christian, 0:05:25.550 --> 0:05:28.790 I had somewhat of a conscience, having had, you know, 0:05:28.820 --> 0:05:32.060 that religious background that the things I was involved in 0:05:32.089 --> 0:05:34.339 were wrong. But at the same time, I didn't have 0:05:34.339 --> 0:05:36.950 the power to overcome them or find victory in them. 0:05:36.980 --> 0:05:38.479 And so when I came to know the Lord, it 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.479 was just this, the, you know, the new nature kicking 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.229 in and this, this power that I experienced over sin, 0:05:45.230 --> 0:05:49.460 it was transformational. And after that, you know, after the 0:05:49.460 --> 0:05:52.310 Lord had revolutionized my life, I ended up becoming a pastor. 0:05:52.310 --> 0:05:54.460 And now I serve as the president of a ministry 0:05:54.460 --> 0:05:57.880 called Living Waters. But in those pastoral years especially, I 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:02.410 began to encounter so many men that were entrenched in 0:06:02.410 --> 0:06:05.860 this destructive sin of sexual morality and usually through the 0:06:05.860 --> 0:06:09.159 gateway of pornography. And, you know, in the preface of 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.860 the book, I talk about how necessity and passion are 0:06:11.860 --> 0:06:14.289 really the two ingredients that are most needed for a 0:06:14.290 --> 0:06:18.640 book to truly have impact. And so the necessity was huge, 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:22.420 and the passion to see men delivered from this sin 0:06:22.450 --> 0:06:25.299 really burned in my heart. And so, so that's what 0:06:25.330 --> 0:06:27.940 stirred me up. And and, you know, the fact that 0:06:27.940 --> 0:06:31.990 so many men feel hopeless in this is something that 0:06:31.990 --> 0:06:34.450 gnawed at me because there is hope in Christ and 0:06:34.450 --> 0:06:38.349 there is the pathway and possibility for victory. And so 0:06:38.380 --> 0:06:42.730 that that really captivated me, and God burdened my heart 0:06:42.730 --> 0:06:45.640 for it. And I've been amazed to see the outcome, 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:47.560 even so far, from those that have been impacted by 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.560 the book. It debuted on Amazon as the number one 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:54.340 bestseller and the number one new release in its category, 0:06:54.339 --> 0:06:57.279 and the response from men that have read it already 0:06:57.310 --> 0:07:00.070 has been very encouraging and heartening. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:03.940 Yeah. That's great. You know, I think anytime we have 0:07:03.940 --> 0:07:07.120 gone through an experience like you went through and then 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.900 God delivers us, we're motivated to try to help other people. 0:07:10.930 --> 0:07:13.600 You know, that's probably why I've spent my life working 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:16.360 with marriage and family, because we had struggles in our 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:18.160 own marriage in those early years. 0:07:18.460 --> 0:07:21.670 Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, and as a as a man, 0:07:21.670 --> 0:07:24.430 of course, I, I relate to that. The Lord delivered 0:07:24.430 --> 0:07:27.340 me from that realm. But I deal with those temptations 0:07:27.340 --> 0:07:30.010 and that lure and that pull. And so I come 0:07:30.010 --> 0:07:32.560 alongside men in that and saying, look, I'm I'm a 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.350 fellow traveler on this road with you as a sinner 0:07:35.380 --> 0:07:39.070 who understands the temptations and the lure and, and there 0:07:39.100 --> 0:07:41.050 there is hope and victory in Christ. 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.320 Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're talking about purity and using the 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.950 word purity in your book. Define. Define the word purity. 0:07:48.580 --> 0:07:52.940 Yeah. So purity would be indicative of a life that 0:07:52.940 --> 0:07:58.550 has no admixture of compromise and corrupting sin in it. Now, 0:07:58.550 --> 0:08:01.850 I'm not talking about a life of perfection or flawlessness, 0:08:01.850 --> 0:08:04.850 but a disposition of the heart that says, look, I've 0:08:04.850 --> 0:08:07.880 been redeemed. I've been set free. I've been bought with 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.390 a price. I no longer belong to myself. I'm the Lord's. 0:08:11.390 --> 0:08:15.050 I know positionally I have perfect righteousness in Christ. He's 0:08:15.050 --> 0:08:17.240 redeemed me. He set me free. He's clothed me with 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:21.500 that perfect righteousness. But practically I am called to live 0:08:21.500 --> 0:08:24.710 in holiness. Practically, I'm called as first Timothy four seven says, 0:08:24.710 --> 0:08:28.970 to discipline myself for godliness. I'm called as Second Timothy 0:08:28.970 --> 0:08:33.350 222 says to flee youthful lusts. And so it's that 0:08:33.350 --> 0:08:36.559 determination as a man recognizing, look, I have the spirit 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.410 that raised Jesus from the dead dwelling in me. God 0:08:39.410 --> 0:08:41.540 has called me to a life of holiness, and now 0:08:41.540 --> 0:08:44.600 I'm going to practically obey him through the strength and 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:48.470 grace that he supplies to flee from this temptation and 0:08:48.470 --> 0:08:51.260 lure to indulge in sexual sin, that is, that is 0:08:51.260 --> 0:08:53.959 dishonoring to the Lord, that's destructive to those that I 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.380 love and that hinders my testimony and witness as an 0:08:57.380 --> 0:09:01.189 ambassador of Christ in this world for the gospel. Yeah. 0:09:01.250 --> 0:09:04.100 Well, the title of the book is Fight Like a man. 0:09:04.100 --> 0:09:07.670 Why did you use the metaphor of a battle? 0:09:07.700 --> 0:09:11.900 Yeah, that's a really good question. And and it's because 0:09:11.900 --> 0:09:14.120 that's exactly what it is. I mean, Gary, you understand 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.000 as a man it's a battle. But the sad thing is, 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.540 most men don't recognize that. You know, they're living with 0:09:20.570 --> 0:09:24.560 a peacetime mentality. When we need a wartime mentality and 0:09:24.559 --> 0:09:27.080 we have enemies, I'm sure we'll get into that. But. 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:31.040 But that's a tragedy. And oftentimes men are acting like 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.190 a soldier who's deluded into thinking that he's on a 0:09:34.190 --> 0:09:37.160 luxury cruise ship heading for the shores of Bora Bora 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.069 to an exotic resort, when in reality he's on a 0:09:40.100 --> 0:09:44.449 Higgins boat heading for the shores of World War II. Normandy. And, Gary, 0:09:44.450 --> 0:09:46.640 I'm sure you can. You can imagine a man with 0:09:46.640 --> 0:09:49.730 that mindset, you know, sauntering off the Higgins boat right 0:09:49.730 --> 0:09:52.380 into the midst of the theater of war. Clad in 0:09:52.380 --> 0:09:55.140 a bathrobe, some fluffy slippers and a remote control in 0:09:55.140 --> 0:09:57.510 his hand, and you and I both know he's going 0:09:57.540 --> 0:10:00.420 to get smoked. And so I wanted men to understand 0:10:00.420 --> 0:10:04.079 this is a battle, and our enemies are fierce, and 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.090 they're attacking us from every direction. We need to be 0:10:06.090 --> 0:10:07.410 ready to fight. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.650 What are some of the warning signs that we are 0:10:10.650 --> 0:10:14.490 indeed in a spiritual battle in this area, in defeating this, 0:10:14.490 --> 0:10:15.780 this temptation? 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:20.130 Yeah, well, I think the lure is the telltale sign, right? 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:25.290 The pull to do that, which is dishonoring and displeasing 0:10:25.290 --> 0:10:27.750 in the sight of God. You know, I often tell Christians, 0:10:27.750 --> 0:10:31.800 any time you wonder whether or not you should be 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:36.660 doing something that's righteous or that's spiritual, all you have 0:10:36.660 --> 0:10:40.200 to do is, is do the opposite of what you're 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.080 feeling or are being lured to do. You know, I 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.050 don't feel like praying. I don't feel like seeking the Lord. 0:10:46.050 --> 0:10:47.579 I don't feel like being in the word. I don't 0:10:47.580 --> 0:10:51.370 feel like doing righteousness. You know, that's exactly what you 0:10:51.370 --> 0:10:54.579 need to be doing. And so we need to understand that, 0:10:54.610 --> 0:10:59.050 you know, that low grade pull toward sin and compromise. 0:10:59.050 --> 0:11:02.080 It begins with the with the thought life that begins 0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:04.929 with the opportunities to engage in things that we know 0:11:04.929 --> 0:11:08.199 we shouldn't engage in. Those are all evidences that we 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:12.700 have enemies, that they're real, that they are seeking to 0:11:12.730 --> 0:11:16.420 undermine anything that would bring glory and honor to God. 0:11:16.420 --> 0:11:19.660 Because that's why we exist, right? As as the old 0:11:19.660 --> 0:11:23.380 confession goes, right to to glorify God and enjoy him forever. 0:11:23.380 --> 0:11:28.030 And often we disconnect glorification from obedience. But but they 0:11:28.030 --> 0:11:30.940 can't be disconnected. You know, first John says, and this 0:11:30.940 --> 0:11:34.300 is love, that we keep his commandments, and his commandments 0:11:34.300 --> 0:11:38.890 are not burdensome. So it's this glad obedience that stands 0:11:38.890 --> 0:11:42.189 up in the face of these telltale signs that are 0:11:42.190 --> 0:11:44.710 seeking again to lead us to dishonor God. I mean, 0:11:44.710 --> 0:11:46.690 you could look at the life of job and you 0:11:46.690 --> 0:11:48.819 could see what Satan was attempting to do. He wanted 0:11:48.820 --> 0:11:51.760 to disprove job. He wanted to destroy him. Well, the 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.609 Lord wanted to to establish him and prove him and 0:11:54.610 --> 0:11:57.670 strengthen him. And so. So we need to understand that 0:11:57.670 --> 0:12:02.710 that those are all again, evidences of of us being 0:12:02.710 --> 0:12:06.340 drawn toward spiritual rebellion against the Lord. 0:12:06.370 --> 0:12:12.310 Yeah. Will you say that Satan uses like things like discontentment, disbelief, 0:12:12.340 --> 0:12:17.620 deification to distract us from the consequences of our sin 0:12:17.620 --> 0:12:21.069 and kind of blind us to that? Talk about that, right? 0:12:21.100 --> 0:12:23.530 Yeah. Well, you know, Gary, Satan is a is a 0:12:23.530 --> 0:12:27.250 one trick pony. There's nothing new about his strategies against 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:29.530 us as God's people. We can go back to Eden 0:12:29.530 --> 0:12:32.680 and and see what he did with with Eve there. And, 0:12:32.710 --> 0:12:36.309 you know, by, by extension, Adam. He, he, he comes 0:12:36.309 --> 0:12:40.449 at them with, with the three pronged approach. And that 0:12:40.450 --> 0:12:44.260 is first, discontent. Has God said, you can't eat of 0:12:44.260 --> 0:12:47.390 every tree of the garden? In In reality, obviously we 0:12:47.390 --> 0:12:50.780 know God had given Adam and Eve access to every 0:12:50.780 --> 0:12:52.970 single tree. And not just that, but he told them 0:12:52.970 --> 0:12:55.790 they can eat freely of it. There were no limitations given, 0:12:55.790 --> 0:12:59.420 but Satan comes in and begins to create discontent. You 0:12:59.420 --> 0:13:03.410 can't have it, all right? And suddenly kind of like, 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:05.120 you know, in the Old Testament, in the book of 0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.060 of Esther with Haman, where it says everything that he 0:13:08.059 --> 0:13:11.719 had availed him nothing, just because he couldn't get that 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.870 one thing, which was Mordecai bowing before him. Right. So 0:13:14.870 --> 0:13:20.150 so he creates this discontentment. Then he hits us with disbelief. No, no, no, 0:13:20.150 --> 0:13:22.939 you will not surely die, he said to Eve. You're 0:13:22.940 --> 0:13:25.640 not going to die. The consequences for sin that God 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:28.850 says are what they are aren't really what they are. 0:13:28.850 --> 0:13:31.910 And he does that with us. He hits us with, no, no, no, 0:13:31.940 --> 0:13:35.179 there really won't be ramifications to sexual sin. Well, first 0:13:35.179 --> 0:13:39.679 Corinthians 618 tells us that every sin that a man commits, 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:41.660 he does outside of the body, but he who commits 0:13:41.660 --> 0:13:45.170 sexual sin sins against his own body. It's set aside 0:13:45.170 --> 0:13:49.890 as a distinct sin with radical ramifications. And then finally 0:13:49.890 --> 0:13:53.100 he comes in with deification. No, no, no, not just that. 0:13:53.100 --> 0:13:56.790 You're not going to die. You will become like God. 0:13:56.790 --> 0:13:58.890 Your eyes will be open. You'll know good from evil. 0:13:58.890 --> 0:14:02.250 In other words, you'll become autonomous and you'll be the 0:14:02.250 --> 0:14:05.580 one to arbitrate what is right and wrong and what 0:14:05.580 --> 0:14:08.700 pathway you want to take in terms of morality in 0:14:08.700 --> 0:14:11.550 your life. And it's the same thing with us, you know, 0:14:11.580 --> 0:14:14.370 he comes at us with that discontent. You can't have 0:14:14.370 --> 0:14:17.339 that sexual sin that you want. He hits us with disbelief. 0:14:17.340 --> 0:14:19.860 If you do indulge in it, no, don't worry, nothing's 0:14:19.860 --> 0:14:22.320 going to happen. And then in essence, you can make 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.570 the call on your own life. You're independent. You should 0:14:24.570 --> 0:14:27.660 be able to determine what's right and wrong for you. 0:14:27.690 --> 0:14:31.650 Yeah, well, I hope that men who are listening to 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:36.120 us today really hear what you're saying, because you're exactly right. 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.960 When you said earlier that Satan don't have any new tricks, 0:14:39.990 --> 0:14:43.110 that these are the tricks he used way back there with. 0:14:43.110 --> 0:14:45.060 With Adam and Eve. Wow. 0:14:45.090 --> 0:14:47.640 Absolutely. Yeah. And we need to be. We need to 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:49.560 be ready for those. You know, and that's what I 0:14:49.590 --> 0:14:51.480 get into in the book. You know, how can we 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.480 then counter those? We need to understand his strategy and 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:57.000 then we need to have a counterattack. Yeah. 0:14:57.180 --> 0:14:59.700 What you said at 15 years of age, you were 0:14:59.700 --> 0:15:02.430 a gang member involved in drugs. You were living a 0:15:02.430 --> 0:15:06.240 destructive lifestyle. What? What really? What were the things that 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:07.979 God used to turn you around? 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.350 As I mentioned earlier, I had this sort of built 0:15:13.350 --> 0:15:17.340 up tension inside of me that was maybe manifesting in 0:15:17.340 --> 0:15:21.510 the form of anger and rebellion, and my pathway was 0:15:21.510 --> 0:15:24.360 just leading to massive, massive destruction. And it kept getting 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.520 worse and worse. You know, before I came to Christ, 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.680 I had this long list of do's and don'ts that 0:15:28.680 --> 0:15:31.050 I had formulated in my mind. Things I'd always do, 0:15:31.080 --> 0:15:35.850 things I'd never indulge in. And little by little, as 0:15:35.850 --> 0:15:38.010 the influence of the world began to set in, all 0:15:38.010 --> 0:15:40.050 of that, you know, just kind of became a distant 0:15:40.050 --> 0:15:44.320 memory as I began to, to indulge in sin and 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.100 and I just. Yeah. Strayed further and further and went 0:15:48.100 --> 0:15:51.670 deeper and deeper into rebellion and immorality and and by 0:15:51.670 --> 0:15:55.030 God's grace, on August 15th, 1991, I heard the gospel 0:15:55.030 --> 0:15:58.420 and its full purity for the first time, that even 0:15:58.450 --> 0:16:00.670 though I had rebelled against God, even though I had 0:16:00.670 --> 0:16:03.910 sinned in the egregious ways that I had because of 0:16:03.910 --> 0:16:06.400 his love for me, because of what Christ did and 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:09.670 his death and resurrection, I can be set free and transformed. 0:16:09.670 --> 0:16:13.060 And Gary, I tell you, it was as First Corinthians says, 0:16:13.060 --> 0:16:16.000 I was a new creation. The old things had passed away, 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:19.510 everything became new, and it was a realization that salvation 0:16:19.510 --> 0:16:21.550 was a free gift. I couldn't earn it, couldn't work 0:16:21.550 --> 0:16:23.440 for it. But God would give it to me on 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:26.860 the basis of faith in what he did. And I 0:16:26.860 --> 0:16:30.100 just remember that night it was as if though the 0:16:30.100 --> 0:16:33.880 scales from my eyes had dropped and I finally understood 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.250 what the cross meant. You know, I grew up seeing 0:16:36.250 --> 0:16:39.640 it in that church chapel every Sunday, and I understood 0:16:39.670 --> 0:16:41.680 intellectually how Jesus died on the cross. But but I 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:45.470 never understood its real essence and power. And so that night, 0:16:45.500 --> 0:16:47.540 when I heard God would be willing to set me free, 0:16:47.540 --> 0:16:51.200 I placed my faith in him and everything changed the 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.650 way I walked, thought, act, and felt. I was literally 0:16:54.650 --> 0:16:58.040 a new creation. And. And here I am today with you. 0:16:58.340 --> 0:17:00.950 Yeah, well, those of us who are following Christ can 0:17:00.950 --> 0:17:04.970 identify with what you're saying for sure. Amen. Well, you know, 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.280 I think sometimes when a man is struggling in this 0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:10.340 area of life, he tends to focus on I'm talking 0:17:10.340 --> 0:17:12.709 about Christians. Now. I've just got to avoid this. I've 0:17:12.710 --> 0:17:15.409 got to avoid this. I've got to avoid this. Right. 0:17:15.410 --> 0:17:19.550 But but is there a risk in focusing only on 0:17:19.550 --> 0:17:22.160 the sin, you know, and just telling yourself, I've got 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:23.780 to stop, I've got to stop. 0:17:24.020 --> 0:17:27.380 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad you brought that point up. 0:17:27.410 --> 0:17:29.840 You know, Paul says in Galatians, I say, then walk 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:32.690 in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts 0:17:32.690 --> 0:17:35.870 of the flesh. And it's important for men to recognize this. 0:17:35.900 --> 0:17:38.780 You know, sometimes we want to just put something off, 0:17:38.780 --> 0:17:41.150 but you got to put something on, and we need 0:17:41.150 --> 0:17:43.230 to put on the Lord Jesus Christ. We need to 0:17:43.230 --> 0:17:47.760 recognize that he is the very source of our strength. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.570 He's the very source of our victory over sexual sin. 0:17:51.570 --> 0:17:54.810 And so there needs to be this pursuit of the Lord. 0:17:54.810 --> 0:17:58.260 You don't just turn away from sin. You turn toward 0:17:58.260 --> 0:18:01.379 the Lord, toward your Redeemer. Right? You run the race 0:18:01.380 --> 0:18:05.550 with endurance, looking unto Jesus, the author, and the finisher 0:18:05.550 --> 0:18:08.820 of our faith. And and so, you know, the problem is, though, 0:18:08.820 --> 0:18:11.369 Gary is a lot of men don't develop that spiritual 0:18:11.369 --> 0:18:14.550 vitality in their life. They're not pursuing the Lord. They're 0:18:14.550 --> 0:18:17.370 living half heartedly consumed with the things of the world 0:18:17.369 --> 0:18:21.240 and being influenced by the world because we're very, very 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.760 impressionable and the world is very influential. It's like a 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:25.830 rock coming up against clay, right? It's going to make 0:18:25.830 --> 0:18:33.090 that impression. And we don't pause to be strengthened spiritually. 0:18:33.090 --> 0:18:35.760 And so then we drift. So yeah, the issue is Christ, 0:18:35.790 --> 0:18:38.310 he must be at the center of it all. 0:18:38.580 --> 0:18:42.179 Yeah. What you're saying reminds me of what Jesus said, 0:18:42.210 --> 0:18:45.419 that in John 15 verse five when he said, you know, 0:18:45.450 --> 0:18:49.800 I'm the vine, you're the branches. Stay connected. You bear fruit. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.040 And then he said, without me you can do nothing. 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:54.330 Absolutely. 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.510 So we can't break. Yeah. So, yeah. No, I'm fully, 0:18:57.510 --> 0:18:59.670 fully with you on that. Absolutely. Yeah. 0:18:59.700 --> 0:19:01.859 No, he he has to be at the very center 0:19:01.859 --> 0:19:05.580 of it all. And and you know what, what a 0:19:05.609 --> 0:19:10.080 what a novel idea. Right. A Christian pursuing Christ. Um, 0:19:10.109 --> 0:19:13.020 I mean, that he needs to be the heartbeat of 0:19:13.020 --> 0:19:17.010 our entire existence. And and when we do connect with 0:19:17.010 --> 0:19:19.890 him in a real way, recognizing his love for us, 0:19:19.890 --> 0:19:21.840 his care for us. I mean, think of what Scripture says. 0:19:21.869 --> 0:19:26.070 Casting your cares upon him, for he cares for you. 0:19:26.100 --> 0:19:29.250 I mean, the God of the universe who spans the 0:19:29.250 --> 0:19:31.560 entire universe with his hand, whom heaven and the heaven 0:19:31.590 --> 0:19:35.970 of heavens cannot contain. He cares for us. He thinks 0:19:35.970 --> 0:19:38.880 about us. His his thoughts toward us are more than 0:19:38.890 --> 0:19:42.340 the sands, like the psalmist said. And when you recognize 0:19:42.340 --> 0:19:44.950 that and what Hebrews says, he who comes to God 0:19:44.950 --> 0:19:47.859 must believe that he is, and he's a rewarder of 0:19:47.859 --> 0:19:51.280 those who diligently seek him. And then you begin to 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:54.460 recognize that when he's your source, you're going to have 0:19:54.460 --> 0:19:57.280 the strength you need to to overcome the sins that 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.050 beset you. Yeah. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.170 Well, in the book, you talk about that there are 0:20:02.170 --> 0:20:07.270 behaviors and there are mindsets that lead to sin and 0:20:07.270 --> 0:20:10.570 that we need to deal with the behaviors and the mindsets. 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:11.740 Talk about that. 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.880 Yeah. Well, you know, like Romans 12 two tells us, 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.150 don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by 0:20:19.150 --> 0:20:22.810 the renewing of your mind. You know, truth must be 0:20:22.810 --> 0:20:26.530 the catalyst that sets us free. Everything begins in the mind, 0:20:26.530 --> 0:20:29.710 and the mind is informed by truth. I love the 0:20:29.740 --> 0:20:31.930 saying that says, you know, I start with the Word 0:20:31.930 --> 0:20:34.060 of God in the morning because I know I'm going 0:20:34.060 --> 0:20:37.910 to be lied to all throughout the day. And so 0:20:37.910 --> 0:20:41.810 we needed to be a people who understand that if 0:20:41.810 --> 0:20:44.540 we don't get a hold of our mind, if we 0:20:44.540 --> 0:20:48.470 don't inform our mind with God's word, with truth, if 0:20:48.470 --> 0:20:50.689 we don't put on the mind of Christ like Scripture 0:20:50.690 --> 0:20:53.630 talks about as well, then we're going to be swayed. 0:20:53.630 --> 0:20:58.250 And whenever you're not leaning on the wisdom that God 0:20:58.250 --> 0:21:01.580 has revealed to us through His Word, you're going to immediately, 0:21:01.580 --> 0:21:04.610 by default, give in to the wisdom of the world, 0:21:04.609 --> 0:21:08.359 which we know is folly. And so we have to 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.090 get to that place where we recognize we've created patterns 0:21:11.090 --> 0:21:14.330 of thought that have been informed by lies that have 0:21:14.330 --> 0:21:17.179 come to us through our enemies, the world, the flesh 0:21:17.180 --> 0:21:20.600 and the devil. And we need to reverse those lies 0:21:20.600 --> 0:21:24.109 by renewing our mind. And that happens through truth, and 0:21:24.109 --> 0:21:25.490 that's found in God's Word. 0:21:25.940 --> 0:21:30.050 Easy. Is this only a male struggle, or is it 0:21:30.050 --> 0:21:34.310 also something women battle with? And is their battle similar 0:21:34.310 --> 0:21:37.460 or different from from men in this area. 0:21:38.060 --> 0:21:43.040 Yeah. Boy, is this overlooked. Gary. It's often seen as 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:47.750 a man's issue. And by and large, predominantly it is. 0:21:48.020 --> 0:21:55.010 Statistics tell us. Sadly, 75% of Christian men occasionally indulge 0:21:55.010 --> 0:21:59.120 in pornography. And again, like I said, pornography is the gateway. 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:00.949 But then that ends up leading to all sorts of 0:22:00.950 --> 0:22:07.430 sexual sin. But tragically, 40% of women. Christian women, or 0:22:07.430 --> 0:22:11.690 at least those that profess to be Christians, also occasionally 0:22:11.690 --> 0:22:14.900 indulge in pornography. And so we need to recognize this 0:22:14.900 --> 0:22:18.050 is a systemic issue. It's gone far beyond men. And 0:22:18.050 --> 0:22:22.100 I think by and large, it's due to accessibility. Back 0:22:22.100 --> 0:22:23.959 in the day, even if a man wanted to to 0:22:23.990 --> 0:22:27.709 look at some pornography, at pornographic as a teenager, you know, 0:22:27.740 --> 0:22:29.389 you had to have a friend whose dad had a 0:22:29.390 --> 0:22:31.729 stash of magazines, or you had to steal a video 0:22:31.730 --> 0:22:33.050 from a store because they wouldn't sell it to you 0:22:33.050 --> 0:22:36.090 if you're under 18 anyway. But now at the click 0:22:36.090 --> 0:22:39.389 of a button, it's accessible. And it's not just like 0:22:39.420 --> 0:22:41.010 you have to go to a location, sit down at 0:22:41.010 --> 0:22:44.129 a computer. We carry these little tiny miniature supercomputers in 0:22:44.130 --> 0:22:47.640 our pockets everywhere we go. And so at a click, 0:22:47.670 --> 0:22:49.080 at the click of a button, like I said, you 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:52.860 have access but connected with that now has, you know, 0:22:52.890 --> 0:22:55.950 been the element of curiosity. And so even women who 0:22:55.980 --> 0:22:59.490 wouldn't naturally have that bent in the same way that 0:22:59.490 --> 0:23:02.550 men would, because we are more visually stimulated. But women 0:23:02.550 --> 0:23:05.970 now are because of curiosity, beginning to dabble in it. 0:23:05.970 --> 0:23:08.370 And it's tragic. And, you know, one of the things 0:23:08.369 --> 0:23:10.800 that's been encouraging is even though the book is designed 0:23:10.800 --> 0:23:12.570 for men, there have been women who have read it 0:23:12.570 --> 0:23:15.660 and who have said that they they found help through 0:23:15.690 --> 0:23:16.830 it as well. 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:21.869 Mhm. What would you say to parents who, you know, 0:23:21.900 --> 0:23:27.510 discover that a child or a teenager is, is watching pornography. 0:23:27.869 --> 0:23:31.440 Yeah. Well I would say before you get there take 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.470 the steps that are necessary to prevent it from happening. 0:23:34.510 --> 0:23:37.629 you know. Gary, again, like I said, in our homes 0:23:37.630 --> 0:23:40.090 we have these computers in our pockets, we have these phones. 0:23:40.090 --> 0:23:43.990 And basically they are sewage pipes that could at any 0:23:43.990 --> 0:23:46.510 moment be opened. And so parents need to be wary 0:23:46.510 --> 0:23:48.700 of that. They need to be understand that they need 0:23:48.700 --> 0:23:52.750 to take proactive steps to put software on their young 0:23:52.780 --> 0:23:56.320 teenagers phones and on the computers at home that are 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:58.690 going to help prevent that. And then communication to talk 0:23:58.690 --> 0:24:01.689 to them about the ravages and the destruction of sexual sin. 0:24:01.750 --> 0:24:04.810 So we sat our children down and we we talked 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.030 to them about the fact that sex is beautiful. God 0:24:07.030 --> 0:24:09.880 designed it, but the world has tainted it. Satan has 0:24:09.880 --> 0:24:13.960 perverted it, right? Our flesh has has twisted it. But 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:16.690 it's a beautiful thing. And then in connection with that, 0:24:16.690 --> 0:24:20.620 we talked to them about the ravages of sin in 0:24:20.619 --> 0:24:23.649 terms of the sexual realm. When we indulge in it 0:24:23.650 --> 0:24:25.570 in a way that God has not designed. And so 0:24:25.570 --> 0:24:29.080 communication is huge and important. But if your kids are 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.290 there and they're indulging in it, you can't treat this lightly. 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.320 You know, Satan would have us think that it's not 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.600 as major as it is, but it's huge. And so 0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:39.580 you have to intervene. You have to get in there, 0:24:39.609 --> 0:24:42.820 and you have to change the dynamics that make it 0:24:42.820 --> 0:24:44.650 possible for your kids to indulge. And then you need 0:24:44.650 --> 0:24:46.510 to begin to spiritually counsel them. You may need to 0:24:46.510 --> 0:24:50.140 get your pastors involved and other spiritual leaders to help you, 0:24:50.140 --> 0:24:52.690 but you have to take action and do it quickly. 0:24:57.820 --> 0:25:01.870 You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast, 0:25:01.869 --> 0:25:05.440 and our guest is author and speaker Easy Zwane. The 0:25:05.440 --> 0:25:09.910 title of today's featured resource at Building Relationships US is 0:25:09.910 --> 0:25:13.390 Easy's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy for 0:25:13.390 --> 0:25:16.540 Achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Find out more 0:25:16.540 --> 0:25:20.590 about it and ways to strengthen your relationships at building relationships. 0:25:20.830 --> 0:25:25.090 Us easy. In the book, you talk about a battle plan. 0:25:25.119 --> 0:25:28.570 You know, to to really fight against this and you 0:25:28.570 --> 0:25:32.810 talk about six C's, the letter C They can help 0:25:32.810 --> 0:25:36.320 men fight against sexual immorality. So tell us what these 0:25:36.320 --> 0:25:39.139 are and how these can really help us. 0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:40.910 You know, Gary, one of the things I talk about 0:25:40.910 --> 0:25:44.240 in the book is something that I call preventative preparedness. 0:25:44.240 --> 0:25:47.780 And that's kind of the whole peace through strength mentality 0:25:47.780 --> 0:25:50.450 that the United States has that doctrine of, look, we 0:25:50.450 --> 0:25:54.500 can avoid major battles and wars if if we build 0:25:54.500 --> 0:25:57.229 up strength. The point in this is to recognize that 0:25:57.230 --> 0:26:00.860 when you indulge in sin, you are using these faculties 0:26:00.859 --> 0:26:04.730 and features that should be blowing your mind that that 0:26:04.730 --> 0:26:07.250 God designed and that he gave you, but you're using 0:26:07.250 --> 0:26:09.560 them as weapons. And so that one is creation. And 0:26:09.560 --> 0:26:13.490 that's wheeled wonders as wellsprings for worship, not weapons for wounding. 0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:16.700 And I get into the, you know, vision and cognition 0:26:16.700 --> 0:26:22.850 what your brain does imagination, creativity, recall memory. And then 0:26:22.850 --> 0:26:25.670 the coalition which comes from the word coitus, which is 0:26:25.670 --> 0:26:29.359 intimacy and the mechanisms involved in that and reproduction and 0:26:29.359 --> 0:26:31.800 and so forth. Then I get into the cross. When 0:26:31.800 --> 0:26:34.230 we're committing sexual sin, we're doing it in the shadow 0:26:34.230 --> 0:26:37.410 of the cross, where Christ paid the highest price ever 0:26:37.410 --> 0:26:40.800 paid for anything to purchase our souls. And we're basically 0:26:40.800 --> 0:26:43.050 spitting on the cross and trampling it under our feet. 0:26:43.050 --> 0:26:45.600 And so we need to be cross minded in walking, 0:26:45.600 --> 0:26:48.030 in purity. And that one is cross. Stop spitting and 0:26:48.030 --> 0:26:51.060 stomping on such a sacred symbol, then crisis. We have 0:26:51.060 --> 0:26:52.979 to think of the crisis that results from sin, the 0:26:52.980 --> 0:26:58.020 crisis of moral authority and conscience and leadership capacity and joy, 0:26:58.020 --> 0:27:01.020 and the witness that we're to have for Christ. And 0:27:01.020 --> 0:27:05.340 so that one is considered the catastrophic consequences of compromise. 0:27:05.340 --> 0:27:08.669 And then, Crown, uh, James tells us, blessed is the 0:27:08.670 --> 0:27:10.770 man who endures temptation. For when he has been approved, 0:27:10.770 --> 0:27:13.260 he will receive the crown of life. There are spiritual 0:27:13.260 --> 0:27:17.340 rewards to be had in eternity by enduring temptation and 0:27:17.340 --> 0:27:20.640 not giving into it. And that one is envision endurance, 0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:24.930 ensuring eternal enrichment. And then the fifth C is crowd. 0:27:24.930 --> 0:27:28.350 And that's recognizing that there's a great cloud or cloud 0:27:28.350 --> 0:27:31.680 of witnesses that has gone before us in Hebrews. They 0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:34.920 endured it says they were even tempted, but they persevered 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:37.590 through faith. And then there's the crowd of our children 0:27:37.590 --> 0:27:41.189 and our grandchildren and our wives and and those that 0:27:41.190 --> 0:27:43.830 we've witnessed to and the believers that we've poured into. 0:27:43.859 --> 0:27:46.500 We need to recognize our sin affects them. And so 0:27:46.500 --> 0:27:48.930 that one is do as the departed did and don't 0:27:48.930 --> 0:27:52.679 dispense devastation. And then finally, the sixth C is, of course, 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:55.830 Christ like we talked about before, he is the source 0:27:55.830 --> 0:27:59.310 of our strength for victory over sexual sin. And we 0:27:59.310 --> 0:28:02.129 need to feast on him. He's our ultimate satisfaction. Not 0:28:02.130 --> 0:28:06.390 just that, but Hebrews tells us he sympathizes with our weaknesses. 0:28:06.390 --> 0:28:08.490 We can come boldly to his throne of grace to 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:11.010 receive mercy and help. And then first John even tells 0:28:11.010 --> 0:28:13.350 us if we do end up sinning, we have an 0:28:13.350 --> 0:28:15.629 advocate with the father. These things were written so that 0:28:15.630 --> 0:28:17.580 you don't sin. But if you do, we have an 0:28:17.580 --> 0:28:19.920 advocate with the father. He paid for our sins. He 0:28:19.920 --> 0:28:22.050 wants to come alongside us and help us. And that 0:28:22.050 --> 0:28:25.350 last C for Christ and the Alliterated sentence there is 0:28:25.350 --> 0:28:30.040 seek the sweet Savior for strength, satisfaction, and sympathetic support. 0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:32.740 And so I encourage men to to, you know, dive deep. 0:28:32.740 --> 0:28:35.590 I open all those things up in a deep way 0:28:35.590 --> 0:28:37.899 in the book, and I encourage them to meditate on 0:28:37.900 --> 0:28:40.840 those things, memorize those sentences, think on them every day. 0:28:40.840 --> 0:28:42.580 And in the midst of battle, they can go back 0:28:42.580 --> 0:28:44.170 to those as well. Yeah. 0:28:44.650 --> 0:28:49.360 I would think that section of the book is really, 0:28:49.360 --> 0:28:51.910 really going to help men. Yeah, if they will in 0:28:51.910 --> 0:28:55.120 fact do what you've just said, you know, then let 0:28:55.120 --> 0:28:58.360 the seeds remind them of those areas. But then the 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:01.060 statements that you're making in there. Yeah. 0:29:01.060 --> 0:29:02.979 And the thing is, is, you know, we need we 0:29:02.980 --> 0:29:05.650 need to give our minds something to do before the 0:29:05.650 --> 0:29:08.440 battle so that again, we're prepared. But in the midst 0:29:08.440 --> 0:29:09.940 of it, what do you do? You know, you have 0:29:09.940 --> 0:29:12.220 to have a place to go. And and men have 0:29:12.250 --> 0:29:14.320 told me that, you know, they found these to be 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:15.430 extremely helpful. 0:29:15.460 --> 0:29:16.060 Yeah. 0:29:16.090 --> 0:29:19.150 Yeah, I can see that. Now, you also use the 0:29:19.150 --> 0:29:24.520 word nope. Nope as a part of your battle plan. 0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:26.110 What does what does that mean? 0:29:26.140 --> 0:29:28.550 Yeah, yeah. So, you know, one day I was counseling 0:29:28.550 --> 0:29:32.510 this young man who had been struggling with with sin 0:29:32.510 --> 0:29:34.370 and temptation, and, and I said to him, look, how 0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:37.100 are you doing? How are you doing with, with pornography? 0:29:37.100 --> 0:29:39.170 And he said, you know what? I'm doing pretty good. 0:29:39.170 --> 0:29:40.610 I said, well, let me ask you this. How are 0:29:40.610 --> 0:29:44.540 you doing with lust? You know, because sometimes I think, Gary, 0:29:44.570 --> 0:29:46.430 men can have this mindset. Well, I'm not looking at porn. 0:29:46.430 --> 0:29:48.980 I'm great. But sometimes. Do we even really need it? Right? 0:29:49.010 --> 0:29:53.150 We have our our memories. We have our own depraved imagination. 0:29:53.150 --> 0:29:55.670 And so we don't need that. So, you know, the 0:29:55.670 --> 0:29:57.470 young man hung his head kind of in shame, a 0:29:57.470 --> 0:29:59.090 little bit discouraged, and he said, you know, I'm not 0:29:59.090 --> 0:30:01.970 doing too well there. And Gary, I felt this sort 0:30:01.970 --> 0:30:05.150 of zeal and passion for righteousness and purity rise up 0:30:05.150 --> 0:30:06.560 in my heart. And I said, brother, you know what? 0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:08.270 We just have to get to that place where we say, 0:30:08.270 --> 0:30:10.850 enough is enough. I'm done with this. We just have 0:30:10.850 --> 0:30:13.760 to say, nope, it's not happening anymore in my life. 0:30:13.760 --> 0:30:15.650 And I said, in fact, you know what? We need 0:30:15.650 --> 0:30:19.790 to say that word nope out loud because that commits us. Nope. 0:30:19.790 --> 0:30:21.890 I'm not doing it. And you know, Gary? Nope has 0:30:21.890 --> 0:30:23.330 an edge to it. If someone says, hey, can you 0:30:23.360 --> 0:30:25.760 help me move house this weekend? You say, no, that's 0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:28.030 one thing. If you say nope, it's like, whoa, okay, 0:30:28.060 --> 0:30:30.970 this guy is serious about this, you know? And so 0:30:31.000 --> 0:30:32.470 I said, we need to we need to do it. 0:30:32.470 --> 0:30:34.030 We need to say it out loud. And I looked 0:30:34.030 --> 0:30:35.980 at this young man and I could tell it resonated 0:30:35.980 --> 0:30:38.260 with him. It resonated with my own heart. It was 0:30:38.260 --> 0:30:40.240 something special kind of happened there. I couldn't explain it 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.820 in words. But the next day I'm leaving home to 0:30:42.850 --> 0:30:44.560 go to the office. I'm in my car. I'm driving 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:46.420 through my my neighborhood to go to the main street. 0:30:46.420 --> 0:30:50.290 When these two young ladies wearing barely anything came jogging 0:30:50.290 --> 0:30:51.880 by my car, I caught a glimpse of them in 0:30:51.880 --> 0:30:55.150 my periphery. And instinctively I just caught myself saying nope 0:30:55.180 --> 0:30:57.970 out loud. And as soon as I said that, I thought, 0:30:57.970 --> 0:31:00.100 you know what? I wish there was some acrostic that 0:31:00.100 --> 0:31:02.230 could go with the word nope, that would have some 0:31:02.230 --> 0:31:04.510 meaning to it. And as soon as I thought that Gary, 0:31:04.540 --> 0:31:08.410 the words popped into my mind. Nope, nope. Not one 0:31:08.440 --> 0:31:13.090 peek even. Not one peek even. And I've shared this 0:31:13.090 --> 0:31:14.500 with so many men and the men that have read 0:31:14.500 --> 0:31:16.960 the book. They've told me this has, like, transformed their 0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:20.200 mindset and understanding because it becomes this instant, this tool 0:31:20.230 --> 0:31:23.050 to where you meditate on it enough, you catch yourself 0:31:23.080 --> 0:31:26.160 instinctively doing it and saying it. But then I said 0:31:26.160 --> 0:31:28.950 to myself, well, why? Nope. Why not? One peek even. 0:31:28.950 --> 0:31:31.980 It has to be anchored to something. And what fuels 0:31:31.980 --> 0:31:35.100 it is love. And it's the five main things that 0:31:35.100 --> 0:31:38.400 I love. And you know, as I'm thinking about that, 0:31:38.400 --> 0:31:40.470 I envision my hand reaching out to grab Ahold of 0:31:40.470 --> 0:31:42.630 the handle of the plow. Remember, Jesus said, if anyone 0:31:42.630 --> 0:31:44.250 puts his hand to the plow and looks back, he's 0:31:44.250 --> 0:31:46.230 not worthy of the kingdom. And that's kind of what 0:31:46.230 --> 0:31:47.880 it is. That's what we're doing. We're called to be 0:31:47.880 --> 0:31:51.030 focused on Christ, his kingdom. But when we're looking at sexual, 0:31:51.180 --> 0:31:54.300 sexually immoral images or thoughts or getting into sexual morality, 0:31:54.300 --> 0:31:57.030 that's what we're doing. And so I envision each one 0:31:57.030 --> 0:31:59.490 of the five loves represented by each one of my fingers. 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:01.620 And as I'm saying it, each finger is curling around 0:32:01.620 --> 0:32:03.990 that handle. And what is it that I love? First, 0:32:03.990 --> 0:32:06.540 I love my Lord, the one who paid the highest 0:32:06.540 --> 0:32:08.459 price that I mentioned to redeem me and save me. 0:32:08.460 --> 0:32:10.890 I'm not going to sin against him. I love my lady, 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:13.530 my wife, who I vowed before heaven and earth to 0:32:13.560 --> 0:32:16.110 be faithful to. Who's who's the love of my life. 0:32:16.110 --> 0:32:20.370 I love my lineage, my children. That my sin will 0:32:20.370 --> 0:32:23.070 affect my grandchildren, even my those that went before me, 0:32:23.070 --> 0:32:27.340 my parents and and others. I love them, I love 0:32:27.340 --> 0:32:31.150 his lambs. I love God's people, those that I'm to 0:32:31.180 --> 0:32:34.540 be a blessing to and to serve. And then lastly, 0:32:34.540 --> 0:32:36.820 I love the lost those that I'm called to be 0:32:36.820 --> 0:32:40.000 a witness to with the gospel. And so because I 0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:43.120 love those things, because I love my Lord, I love 0:32:43.120 --> 0:32:45.670 my lady, I love my lineage, I love his lambs, 0:32:45.670 --> 0:32:50.230 and I love the lost. Nope. Not one peak even. 0:32:50.500 --> 0:32:55.630 Well that's powerful. This whole thing of spirit. The spiritual battle. 0:32:55.660 --> 0:33:00.640 How does spiritual depravity sneak into our lives sometimes without 0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:02.230 us even realizing it? 0:33:02.260 --> 0:33:06.460 Yeah, Gary. Well, that goes with what we discussed earlier, 0:33:06.460 --> 0:33:09.820 and that is our fallen, sinful nature. Right. I talked 0:33:09.820 --> 0:33:14.440 about the world, the devil and the flesh. The flesh 0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:18.160 is our our fallen, sinful nature that is really the 0:33:18.160 --> 0:33:21.580 true enemy. As Doctor John Street talks about in his 0:33:21.580 --> 0:33:25.520 powerful book, You Know The world and the devil are 0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:30.380 outward enemies of opportunity, that a lie or ally with 0:33:30.380 --> 0:33:33.020 the flesh. But that's the real enemy. And so, yeah, 0:33:33.050 --> 0:33:38.360 our sinful nature will always be there to give a 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:42.500 helping hand toward sin and unrighteousness. And so we have 0:33:42.500 --> 0:33:45.229 to understand that, you know, the the problem is, is 0:33:45.230 --> 0:33:48.710 that most of the men out there today can have 0:33:48.710 --> 0:33:53.120 that self-righteous mindset, especially leaders. You know, the sad thing is, Gary, 18% 0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:57.260 of pastors say that they occasionally look at pornography. And 0:33:57.260 --> 0:34:00.350 it's that mindset of, no, I can't do it. I 0:34:00.350 --> 0:34:03.740 wouldn't do that. Underestimating the sinful nature. But I love 0:34:03.740 --> 0:34:06.350 what Voddie Baucham said. You know, he said that the 0:34:06.350 --> 0:34:09.590 strongest man in the Bible fell into sexual sin. The 0:34:09.590 --> 0:34:13.100 wisest man did, and the godliest man did. If we 0:34:13.100 --> 0:34:16.970 don't think that our sinful nature is so depraved that 0:34:16.969 --> 0:34:19.010 we can't fall into it, in essence we're saying that 0:34:19.010 --> 0:34:22.760 we're stronger than Samson, we're wiser than Solomon, and were 0:34:22.790 --> 0:34:26.810 godlier than. King David. And that's just plain stupid, right? 0:34:27.290 --> 0:34:32.300 Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, we're talking about the. Nope. Thing, 0:34:32.300 --> 0:34:35.719 and I really like that. What happens to the man 0:34:35.810 --> 0:34:41.600 who allows sexual sin and open door in his life? 0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:42.410 Mm. 0:34:42.500 --> 0:34:45.560 Well, you don't have to look far, right? I mean, 0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:50.180 you look at King David as an example. Um, David sinned, 0:34:50.180 --> 0:34:54.650 and he sinned egregiously, and he was forgiven. You remember 0:34:54.650 --> 0:34:57.890 the prophet Nathan? After David acknowledged his sin and repented, 0:34:57.890 --> 0:34:59.600 he said to him, and the Lord has put away 0:34:59.600 --> 0:35:03.050 your sin. And then he said, but the sword will 0:35:03.050 --> 0:35:06.200 not depart from your household. You know, Gary. Men need 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:10.399 to recognize that sin has ravages. And oftentimes I think 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:13.400 this confusion hits our hearts and minds. Yeah. God, God's 0:35:13.400 --> 0:35:16.940 gracious God, forgives. He does. But there are consequences to sin. 0:35:16.940 --> 0:35:19.640 The the sword never departed from David's household. I mean, 0:35:19.670 --> 0:35:23.370 there was destruction from that point moving forward. And again, 0:35:23.400 --> 0:35:27.210 this isn't to obliterate hope, but it's to bring sobriety. Look, 0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:31.620 you can't reverse the fact if you indulge in sexual immorality, 0:35:31.620 --> 0:35:34.589 that you have just been notified by your doctor that 0:35:34.590 --> 0:35:38.759 you're HIV positive. You can't reverse that, right? That's regret. 0:35:39.030 --> 0:35:41.550 You can't change the fact that you've now destroyed a 0:35:41.550 --> 0:35:46.230 precious marriage that was beautiful. And and your wife now 0:35:46.230 --> 0:35:48.060 has divorced you and left you. You can't change that. 0:35:48.060 --> 0:35:51.210 You can't change the fact that that your children have 0:35:51.239 --> 0:35:54.000 have been harmed in different ways because of your sexual 0:35:54.000 --> 0:35:55.710 sin that led to your divorce and so on and 0:35:55.710 --> 0:35:59.279 so forth. Sin is a tangled web, and we need 0:35:59.280 --> 0:36:02.310 to recognize that. And so men need to wake up. 0:36:02.310 --> 0:36:04.649 They need to they need to pause and say, no, no, 0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:07.800 this has consequences. And you know, Gary, the men that say, 0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:11.100 I can't help it, you know, I asked men this question. 0:36:11.100 --> 0:36:16.050 Sometimes I say, look, if Elon Musk committed $100 million 0:36:16.050 --> 0:36:19.920 to you, if you went six months without looking at pornography, 0:36:20.210 --> 0:36:25.009 You know that you would do everything possible to do 0:36:25.010 --> 0:36:28.580 it right. And so it's not an issue of we can't. 0:36:28.610 --> 0:36:31.190 It's that we won't. And as one author put it, 0:36:31.190 --> 0:36:34.910 value impacts behavior. We need to reorient our value system 0:36:34.910 --> 0:36:37.160 so that it aligns with God's so that we see 0:36:37.190 --> 0:36:40.610 sin as hideous as it is, and we see righteousness 0:36:40.610 --> 0:36:44.060 as beautiful as it is. And we see his power 0:36:44.060 --> 0:36:46.759 as accessible as it is to be able to have 0:36:46.760 --> 0:36:48.170 that victory that he provides. 0:36:48.200 --> 0:36:54.860 Yeah, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Yes. Amen. 0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:58.160 Easy. One of the things that I hear from a 0:36:58.160 --> 0:37:00.589 lot of men and women as well, is the the 0:37:00.590 --> 0:37:05.030 shame that comes with pornography use and the shame that 0:37:05.030 --> 0:37:08.510 keeps you from God because you don't want to go 0:37:08.510 --> 0:37:11.419 to him. He's holy and you feel dirty, and so 0:37:11.420 --> 0:37:15.080 you just stay alone. Those six C's that you mentioned 0:37:15.110 --> 0:37:19.810 finishing up with Christ there is. That is a liberating 0:37:19.810 --> 0:37:23.980 message for anybody who feels that shame that you don't 0:37:23.980 --> 0:37:26.650 have to stay there. In the shame, you can move 0:37:26.680 --> 0:37:30.190 toward God's heart so that he can forgive you and 0:37:30.190 --> 0:37:31.930 clean you up. Right? 0:37:32.290 --> 0:37:32.650 Mhm. 0:37:32.830 --> 0:37:37.030 Oh, man. I can't put into words how so important 0:37:37.030 --> 0:37:38.500 this is, and how so glad I am that you 0:37:38.500 --> 0:37:40.720 brought it up. And that's where I wanted to head, 0:37:40.750 --> 0:37:44.379 you know in that there is hope in Christ. You know, 0:37:44.410 --> 0:37:46.930 the book is designed to be and I talk about 0:37:46.930 --> 0:37:50.110 that in the preface, what I call gospel centric. Right. 0:37:50.140 --> 0:37:54.820 The gospel is often misunderstood as just the instrument through 0:37:54.850 --> 0:37:58.300 which we're saved, but in reality, the gospel is the 0:37:58.300 --> 0:38:03.250 treasure house of spiritual riches from which we live as Christians. 0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:06.250 And the gospel has a part of it. This great 0:38:06.250 --> 0:38:10.090 declaration that Paul makes in Ephesians, in him we have 0:38:10.090 --> 0:38:15.550 redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins. And you 0:38:15.580 --> 0:38:18.230 think about that right when Christ died on the cross 0:38:18.230 --> 0:38:22.009 for our sins, he had to pay for all of 0:38:22.010 --> 0:38:24.379 our sins or for none of our sins at all, 0:38:24.410 --> 0:38:27.950 because we know that one sin. It leaves us outside 0:38:27.950 --> 0:38:30.530 of God's kingdom and earns us the judgment of hell 0:38:30.530 --> 0:38:33.410 for all eternity. As we saw what and what happened 0:38:33.440 --> 0:38:35.330 with Eden, a man and a woman eating a piece 0:38:35.330 --> 0:38:37.430 of fruit in a garden thousands of years ago. And 0:38:37.430 --> 0:38:39.739 here we are. It shows how serious sin is in 0:38:39.739 --> 0:38:42.259 the sight of God. But. But here's where where that 0:38:42.290 --> 0:38:44.960 leads us. This leads us to the fact that when 0:38:44.960 --> 0:38:47.479 Christ died on the cross for our sins, we didn't 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:50.780 even exist yet to commit those sins, which means that 0:38:50.780 --> 0:38:54.770 Christ saw us in our totality. He saw everything that 0:38:54.770 --> 0:38:57.770 could possibly be seen about us. And the Bible tells 0:38:57.770 --> 0:39:00.529 us he demonstrated his own love toward us. The father did, 0:39:00.530 --> 0:39:04.640 and that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:07.370 Which means that the joy that we experienced, the moment 0:39:07.370 --> 0:39:10.580 that we came to know Christ and were saved, is 0:39:10.580 --> 0:39:13.670 as valid as when we are in our deepest sin, 0:39:13.670 --> 0:39:17.879 because his his redemption of us was real. He knew 0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:20.759 all of our sin. He saw us completely, and yet 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:22.620 he still gave his life to redeem us. So the 0:39:22.620 --> 0:39:25.620 good news is, no matter how badly you fall and 0:39:25.620 --> 0:39:28.320 no matter how much sin you've committed, while there are 0:39:28.320 --> 0:39:31.529 consequences to sin, as I mentioned, there is forgiveness, there 0:39:31.560 --> 0:39:35.339 is redemption, and there is restoration that you can change 0:39:35.340 --> 0:39:38.640 the trend and head in the direction of holiness and righteousness. 0:39:38.640 --> 0:39:41.370 I've seen God do this in so many men's lives, 0:39:41.370 --> 0:39:44.010 and for those of you listening today, he wants to 0:39:44.010 --> 0:39:46.830 do it in your life. Run to him and let 0:39:46.830 --> 0:39:47.820 him set you free. 0:39:48.510 --> 0:39:51.360 You see, talk to the person who has a loved 0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:55.080 one who is involved in sexual sin and a destructive 0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:58.680 lifestyle may be a wife. It may be just a friend. 0:39:58.710 --> 0:40:00.480 What would you say to that person? 0:40:00.510 --> 0:40:04.109 Yeah, well, my heart breaks for them first of all, 0:40:04.140 --> 0:40:07.710 because like I said, sin doesn't just affect us. It's 0:40:07.710 --> 0:40:10.560 far reaching and it has massive impact. And I think 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:13.740 sometimes there are reasons why people hesitate to do anything. 0:40:13.739 --> 0:40:16.270 Sometimes there's just the embarrassment. How do I how do 0:40:16.270 --> 0:40:19.660 I talk to this person in my life who's living 0:40:19.660 --> 0:40:22.120 in the sin? It's embarrassing. They're humiliated. I don't want 0:40:22.120 --> 0:40:25.990 them to feel worse. But that's what love does, right? 0:40:26.020 --> 0:40:30.820 It speaks the truth, and it has a confrontational element 0:40:30.820 --> 0:40:33.820 to it without needing to be confrontational in the sense 0:40:33.820 --> 0:40:38.890 of being harsh or mean, but recognizing that we're sinners 0:40:38.890 --> 0:40:41.380 as well, even though our sin may be different, but 0:40:41.380 --> 0:40:46.360 approaching that person with intentionality but at the same time 0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:51.009 with compassion and with hope, it's hugely important because, like 0:40:51.010 --> 0:40:53.799 you said, there is that that element of shame that's 0:40:53.800 --> 0:40:56.770 involved there, and there's that sense of hopelessness. But being 0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:59.770 able to approach them with truth, but also with the 0:40:59.770 --> 0:41:04.959 recognition that this sin only gets worse, right? Sin is enslavement. 0:41:04.989 --> 0:41:08.770 As Scripture talks about who you obey, you become that 0:41:08.770 --> 0:41:12.250 element's slave in essence. And so you want to you 0:41:12.250 --> 0:41:14.410 want to direct them toward help. You want to direct 0:41:14.440 --> 0:41:18.370 them toward others who can get into their life and 0:41:18.370 --> 0:41:22.390 help them. It's a man accountability and and counsel from 0:41:22.390 --> 0:41:27.189 other men and and and direct them toward Christ first 0:41:27.190 --> 0:41:29.140 of all. But then those who are servants of Christ, 0:41:29.170 --> 0:41:30.910 who can help them in this battle. 0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:35.920 Yeah. Talk about the power of prayer in that context. 0:41:36.370 --> 0:41:36.700 Mm. 0:41:36.910 --> 0:41:41.380 I've often said that prayer is the barometer that tells 0:41:41.380 --> 0:41:44.560 us where we're at spiritually as God's people. Because when 0:41:44.560 --> 0:41:48.520 you're sitting alone, speaking into the air to a God 0:41:48.520 --> 0:41:51.550 whose face you cannot see, whose voice you can't hear, 0:41:51.580 --> 0:41:54.609 whose presence you can't feel, it's a true demonstration of 0:41:54.610 --> 0:41:57.610 faith that that you know you're doing it despite what 0:41:57.610 --> 0:42:01.630 you might even think or believe. And and prayer is, 0:42:01.660 --> 0:42:05.080 is the lifeline for every believer. Oftentimes we say, oh, 0:42:05.110 --> 0:42:07.870 I guess all I can do is pray. Imagine putting 0:42:07.870 --> 0:42:09.730 that in a different way. Oh, I guess all I 0:42:09.730 --> 0:42:14.420 can do is talk to the omnipotent, omniscient, Omnipresent, sovereign, 0:42:14.420 --> 0:42:17.000 all powerful God of the universe. I guess that's all 0:42:17.000 --> 0:42:20.000 I can do. And by the way, the one. The 0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:23.569 one who loves me infinitely. That he paid with his 0:42:23.570 --> 0:42:26.420 blood to redeem me. Now, look, we have to understand 0:42:26.420 --> 0:42:29.450 that it's through crying out to the Lord that we're 0:42:29.450 --> 0:42:31.940 going to see intervention in our lives, right? Scripture says 0:42:31.940 --> 0:42:35.150 you have not because you ask not. Right. And so 0:42:35.150 --> 0:42:37.820 we need to understand those words that James utters it, 0:42:37.850 --> 0:42:40.580 that man, we need to cry out to God, casting 0:42:40.580 --> 0:42:42.680 your cares upon him. He cares for you, letting your 0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:45.950 requests be made known to him, and understanding that that 0:42:45.950 --> 0:42:49.219 God divinely works through prayer. It tells us in First 0:42:49.219 --> 0:42:51.109 John that if we ask anything according to his will, 0:42:51.110 --> 0:42:53.120 he hears us. And if we know he hears us, 0:42:53.120 --> 0:42:55.250 we know we have the request we've asked of him, 0:42:55.250 --> 0:42:58.250 and we know that his will is that we walk 0:42:58.250 --> 0:43:00.350 in purity. I mean, it tells us that in first 0:43:00.380 --> 0:43:03.530 Thessalonians four three through eight that that this is the 0:43:03.530 --> 0:43:06.770 will of God, that you abstain from sexual immorality, uh, 0:43:06.770 --> 0:43:11.029 that you you determine to. To put that off and 0:43:11.030 --> 0:43:14.170 walk in holiness. And so it's also a connection with 0:43:14.170 --> 0:43:16.510 your God. When you develop that intimacy with him and 0:43:16.510 --> 0:43:20.170 that close relationship, it's going to change your desires and 0:43:20.170 --> 0:43:21.550 your pursuits as well. 0:43:21.580 --> 0:43:22.150 Yeah. 0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:24.760 Well, Lisa, I want to thank you for being with 0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:28.660 us today because you. You're giving hope to a lot 0:43:28.690 --> 0:43:31.630 of men who are struggling in this area. And I 0:43:31.630 --> 0:43:33.850 want to thank you also for writing the book. I mean, 0:43:33.850 --> 0:43:37.330 I know, I know, it takes time to write a book. Yeah. 0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:41.140 And I deeply appreciate what you've done. And to our listeners, 0:43:41.140 --> 0:43:43.810 I just want to say, you know, if you're a 0:43:43.810 --> 0:43:47.529 wife who's has a husband, you know, he's involved in this, 0:43:47.530 --> 0:43:50.110 this would be a good tool whether you give it 0:43:50.110 --> 0:43:51.819 to him or a friend gives it to him. But 0:43:51.820 --> 0:43:54.160 somebody needs to get it in his hands because it 0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:57.550 will help him. So thank you for being with us today, 0:43:57.550 --> 0:44:00.310 and may God continue to give you wisdom as you 0:44:00.310 --> 0:44:03.820 minister not only in this area, but in other areas, 0:44:03.820 --> 0:44:05.320 pointing people to Christ. 0:44:05.469 --> 0:44:08.020 It's been an honor, Gary. Thank you again for having me. 0:44:08.020 --> 0:44:10.689 And may again the Lord give men victory. 0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:11.320 Through the truth. 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:13.230 Of His word, and I hope they're able to mine 0:44:13.230 --> 0:44:15.780 that truth from this book. It was a labor of love, 0:44:15.810 --> 0:44:18.270 but God was gracious in allowing me to write it. 0:44:18.300 --> 0:44:19.440 Thank you again, brother. 0:44:19.650 --> 0:44:21.450 Well, there's so much we didn't get to on the 0:44:21.450 --> 0:44:24.870 program today. If you go to building relationships us, you'll 0:44:24.870 --> 0:44:28.980 see Zane's book Fight Like a man A Biblical Strategy 0:44:28.980 --> 0:44:32.700 for achieving Victory in the battle for purity. Again, you 0:44:32.700 --> 0:44:36.210 can find out more at building relationships.us. 0:44:36.390 --> 0:44:41.700 And coming up next week how to have a mindful marriage. 0:44:41.730 --> 0:44:45.570 Don't miss the conversation with Ron and Nandyal in one week. 0:44:45.600 --> 0:44:48.480 Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve 0:44:48.480 --> 0:44:52.770 Wick and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman 0:44:52.770 --> 0:44:56.340 is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago in association 0:44:56.340 --> 0:45:00.420 with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks 0:45:00.420 --> 0:45:01.380 for listening.