1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,040 S1: Faith based investing is expanding rapidly, and new tools are 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,840 S1: opening the door to more thoughtful stewardship. Hi, I'm Rob West. 3 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:20,840 S1: As more investors seek alignment between conviction and strategy, ETFs 4 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:23,959 S1: have become one of the most talked about vehicles today. 5 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,120 S1: Brian Burke joins us to explore the opportunity. Faith based 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,320 S1: ETFs offer investors. And then it's on to your calls 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:38,279 S1: at 800 525 7000. That's 800 525 7000. This is 8 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:45,960 S1: faith and finance live. Biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,360 S1: our guest today is Brian Lumbard, president of Timothy Plan 10 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,000 S1: and a pioneer in faith based investing. Brian, great to 11 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:52,720 S1: have you back. 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,480 S2: Thank you. Rob, great to be here. 13 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,840 S1: Before we get into ETFs Brian. Exchange traded funds I'd 14 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,820 S1: love to zoom out for a moment. Timothy plan has, 15 00:01:00,860 --> 00:01:04,180 S1: of course, been part of the faith based investing conversation 16 00:01:04,180 --> 00:01:07,419 S1: from the very beginning, more than two decades now. So 17 00:01:07,420 --> 00:01:11,300 S1: how do you see Timothy Plan's role in helping Christians 18 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:14,940 S1: think differently about investing, both then and today? 19 00:01:15,300 --> 00:01:19,940 S2: Well, Rob, back in 1992, back in the 90s, Timothy 20 00:01:19,980 --> 00:01:24,100 S2: plan was an idea. Um, and then in 1994, it 21 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:27,420 S2: was actually a concept turned itself into a mutual fund. 22 00:01:27,420 --> 00:01:30,140 S2: And the original idea was that we would be a 23 00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:34,700 S2: retirement plan for non-denominational pastors. In fact, our very first 24 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:38,220 S2: slogan was how much is okay to invest in abortion 25 00:01:38,220 --> 00:01:41,779 S2: or pornography? And the answer is simple not a penny. Right. 26 00:01:41,819 --> 00:01:44,300 S2: And we you know, we've held that for a long time. 27 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:49,580 S2: And as the years have passed, it's really become a movement. 28 00:01:49,620 --> 00:01:52,220 S2: You know, it's investing that begins with the heart. You know, 29 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:55,660 S2: what we treasure shapes how we steward things. And we 30 00:01:55,660 --> 00:01:58,420 S2: tend to want to be owners of the money that 31 00:01:58,420 --> 00:02:01,360 S2: God has entrusted to us. And if we are stewards, 32 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,040 S2: it's really more about how God would have us invest 33 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,720 S2: this money that he's entrusted to us. And ultimately, that's 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,000 S2: where Timothy plan and other faith based firms have really pushed. 35 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,200 S2: This idea is how to invest the money God has 36 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,120 S2: entrusted to us. 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,280 S1: Yeah, I think that's the right question at the heart 38 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,000 S1: of all of this. Now, you and I have seen 39 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:25,400 S1: dramatic changes since 1992, and there's some real momentum right 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,120 S1: now in this space from your vantage point, Brian, what's 41 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:30,320 S1: driving that momentum? 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,080 S2: If you go back 30 years ago, it had to 43 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,080 S2: be a proof of concept. And now information is so 44 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,839 S2: readily available. You know, back when we started, it was 45 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,200 S2: so hard to find information on these companies, what they 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,400 S2: were doing, where they profited from things like that. And 47 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,359 S2: now it's in front of our faces daily on social media. 48 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:50,799 S2: So it really drives the conversation. It gets people thinking, 49 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:55,200 S2: where am I investing? Or how am I participating in 50 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,000 S2: these companies that I might disagree with? And, you know, 51 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:02,100 S2: with increased options. You have, you know, more enthusiasm that's 52 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:05,060 S2: out there. People just need to be discerning, obviously. But 53 00:03:05,060 --> 00:03:08,060 S2: there's many faith based companies, including Timothy Plan, that are 54 00:03:08,060 --> 00:03:11,180 S2: really offering compelling investment options for Christians. 55 00:03:11,460 --> 00:03:16,020 S1: Including as ETFs, alongside your long standing mutual funds. Now, 56 00:03:16,020 --> 00:03:18,900 S1: for a listener who hears that term, they've heard it before, 57 00:03:18,900 --> 00:03:21,540 S1: but they don't quite understand it. Break it down in 58 00:03:21,540 --> 00:03:24,579 S1: simple terms and explain why investors are drawn to these 59 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:25,740 S1: investment vehicles. 60 00:03:25,900 --> 00:03:31,180 S2: Absolutely. ETFs are exchange traded funds, and they hold a 61 00:03:31,180 --> 00:03:34,180 S2: basket of investments and trade throughout the day like a stock. 62 00:03:34,180 --> 00:03:36,339 S2: And that might be a little bit more intimidating than 63 00:03:36,340 --> 00:03:38,940 S2: a mutual fund where you can just buy it and 64 00:03:39,100 --> 00:03:40,780 S2: you get the price at the end of the day. 65 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:43,780 S2: But the benefit is that these can get offered at 66 00:03:43,780 --> 00:03:47,580 S2: much lower cost, usually as a passive investment. And there's 67 00:03:47,580 --> 00:03:50,300 S2: really great transparency. You can go on our website or 68 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:53,660 S2: other websites of other ETFs and see every holding at 69 00:03:53,660 --> 00:03:56,540 S2: all points in time. Um, and since it trades like 70 00:03:56,540 --> 00:03:59,270 S2: a stock, you can liquidate it whenever you'd like. Even 71 00:03:59,270 --> 00:04:00,590 S2: in the middle of the day, you don't have to 72 00:04:00,590 --> 00:04:01,670 S2: wait till the end of the day. 73 00:04:01,990 --> 00:04:07,070 S1: Yeah. Timothy Plan offers ETFs that are faith aligned, and 74 00:04:07,070 --> 00:04:08,790 S1: I'd love for you to just share a little bit 75 00:04:08,790 --> 00:04:12,070 S1: about what sets your ETFs apart, both in their construction 76 00:04:12,070 --> 00:04:13,670 S1: and the convictions behind them. 77 00:04:13,710 --> 00:04:18,510 S2: Well, every Timothy Plan product is a pro-life, pro-family product. 78 00:04:18,510 --> 00:04:22,150 S2: And that's where we hang our hats. Um, these ETFs 79 00:04:22,589 --> 00:04:25,990 S2: are screened and filtered the same way as our mutual funds. 80 00:04:26,470 --> 00:04:28,990 S2: They are volatility weighted. And so it really helps to 81 00:04:29,029 --> 00:04:32,870 S2: minimize the impact of large market corrections. So we don't 82 00:04:32,870 --> 00:04:36,150 S2: end up holding large positions of any single one company 83 00:04:36,150 --> 00:04:39,870 S2: in these ETFs. Um but the screening process as I 84 00:04:39,870 --> 00:04:43,430 S2: said is still the same. And the convictions haven't changed. Uh, 85 00:04:43,430 --> 00:04:46,150 S2: really just the investment vehicle has. 86 00:04:46,470 --> 00:04:48,750 S1: Mm. Yeah. Well, it is so encouraging to hear that 87 00:04:48,750 --> 00:04:52,390 S1: the landscape of faith based investing is really growing and 88 00:04:52,390 --> 00:04:56,890 S1: changing and positive ways, more transparent tools, better access and 89 00:04:56,890 --> 00:05:01,690 S1: stronger values aligned options. Christians have a growing opportunity to 90 00:05:01,730 --> 00:05:04,730 S1: invest in a way that aligns with their values as 91 00:05:04,730 --> 00:05:07,330 S1: Christ followers. Brian, thanks for your partnership and for being 92 00:05:07,330 --> 00:05:08,010 S1: here today. 93 00:05:08,130 --> 00:05:08,890 S2: Thank you. Rob. 94 00:05:09,210 --> 00:05:12,130 S1: Brian Lumbard is president of Timothy Plan. You can learn 95 00:05:12,130 --> 00:05:15,650 S1: more about their ETFs and other faith based investment funds 96 00:05:15,650 --> 00:05:21,090 S1: at Timothy Plan. Com. That's Timothy plan. We'll be right back. 97 00:05:32,010 --> 00:05:35,409 S3: The opinions offered during this program represent the personal or 98 00:05:35,410 --> 00:05:40,290 S3: professional opinions of the participants, given for informational purposes only. 99 00:05:40,490 --> 00:05:44,050 S3: Any information provided is not intended to replace advice from 100 00:05:44,050 --> 00:05:48,849 S3: a financial, medical, legal, or other professional who understands your 101 00:05:48,850 --> 00:05:50,289 S3: specific situation. 102 00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:58,550 S1: Well today on Faith and Finance Live. We're ready to 103 00:05:58,550 --> 00:06:01,670 S1: take your calls and questions, helping you apply the wisdom 104 00:06:01,670 --> 00:06:04,990 S1: from God's Word to your financial decisions and choices. You know, 105 00:06:05,029 --> 00:06:07,390 S1: when you boil it down, there's really only a few 106 00:06:07,390 --> 00:06:09,230 S1: things you can do with money. There's the money you 107 00:06:09,230 --> 00:06:12,110 S1: live on, the money you give, the money you owe. 108 00:06:12,110 --> 00:06:15,669 S1: And I would put that into two categories debt and taxes, 109 00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:18,950 S1: and the money you grow, your savings and your investments. 110 00:06:18,950 --> 00:06:21,990 S1: So you live, you give, you owe and you grow 111 00:06:21,990 --> 00:06:23,870 S1: God's money. And we want to do that in light 112 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:27,390 S1: of biblical principles. We want to do it recognizing our 113 00:06:27,390 --> 00:06:30,710 S1: role as that of steward or manager, not owner. Holding 114 00:06:30,710 --> 00:06:35,110 S1: it loosely, setting financial finish lines, knowing how much is enough. 115 00:06:35,110 --> 00:06:38,750 S1: And ultimately that's between you and the Lord. Being generous 116 00:06:38,750 --> 00:06:42,390 S1: along the way, not finding our identity or our hope 117 00:06:42,390 --> 00:06:45,469 S1: in wealth. It can never fill that promise. That's a 118 00:06:45,470 --> 00:06:49,430 S1: promise that only is met by the Lord himself. But money, then, 119 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:52,030 S1: when we do, that is a good gift that we 120 00:06:52,029 --> 00:06:54,430 S1: can use for our enjoyment and to bless others and 121 00:06:54,430 --> 00:06:59,770 S1: to invest for human flourishing and to love our neighbors and. Yes, 122 00:06:59,770 --> 00:07:02,970 S1: to provide for our families. But we want to do 123 00:07:02,970 --> 00:07:05,529 S1: it in its proper place. And that's why we look 124 00:07:05,529 --> 00:07:08,290 S1: to God's Word. So as you live. Give, owe and 125 00:07:08,290 --> 00:07:11,690 S1: grow God's money, I'm sure you have questions along the way. Uh, 126 00:07:11,690 --> 00:07:14,090 S1: I know I have questions from time to time myself. 127 00:07:14,090 --> 00:07:17,290 S1: So today's broadcast is for you and we're looking forward 128 00:07:17,290 --> 00:07:20,170 S1: to taking those questions. So whatever is on your mind, 129 00:07:20,170 --> 00:07:22,130 S1: just go ahead and call right now. We've got some lines. 130 00:07:22,130 --> 00:07:29,570 S1: Open 800 525 7000. Again that's 800 525 7000. Our 131 00:07:29,570 --> 00:07:32,170 S1: team is standing by. We'll get you on the air quickly. Uh, 132 00:07:32,170 --> 00:07:36,890 S1: we do have lines open 800 525 7000. Uh, President 133 00:07:36,930 --> 00:07:40,210 S1: Trump's big, beautiful bill may encourage some older folks to 134 00:07:40,250 --> 00:07:44,370 S1: remain in the workforce longer as new work requirements for 135 00:07:44,410 --> 00:07:49,730 S1: Medicaid and Snap take effect. Medicaid rules will apply to 136 00:07:49,770 --> 00:07:54,910 S1: certain adults up to age 64. That's beginning in in 2027, 137 00:07:54,910 --> 00:07:59,670 S1: while snap requirements that's the food benefits now extend to 138 00:07:59,710 --> 00:08:05,070 S1: individuals ages 55 to 64, with exemptions available for those 139 00:08:05,070 --> 00:08:11,150 S1: who qualify. Supporters say that changes can strengthen workforce participation 140 00:08:11,350 --> 00:08:16,070 S1: and help individuals maintain access to benefits while staying engaged 141 00:08:16,070 --> 00:08:20,430 S1: in employment. For some, continuing to work may provide added 142 00:08:20,430 --> 00:08:24,870 S1: financial stability, access to employer sponsored health coverage, and a 143 00:08:24,870 --> 00:08:30,110 S1: smoother transition into Medicare eligibility at 65. The updates are 144 00:08:30,110 --> 00:08:34,270 S1: also expected to reduce federal spending and help fund broader 145 00:08:34,270 --> 00:08:39,190 S1: tax relief estates, implement the policies and clarify exemptions. And 146 00:08:39,230 --> 00:08:42,270 S1: there's a lot still to know, as this new law 147 00:08:42,270 --> 00:08:46,150 S1: of the land is still being interpreted and understood. I 148 00:08:46,150 --> 00:08:49,150 S1: will say older adults will have opportunities to plan ahead, 149 00:08:49,150 --> 00:08:52,990 S1: remain connected to the workforce if able, and make informed 150 00:08:53,130 --> 00:08:57,650 S1: decisions about retirement timing and benefit eligibility. So here's the 151 00:08:57,650 --> 00:09:00,449 S1: bottom line. If this is something you have been expecting 152 00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:04,330 S1: or counting on to this point, that is Medicaid or 153 00:09:04,330 --> 00:09:07,569 S1: the Snap benefits, just make sure that you understand that 154 00:09:07,570 --> 00:09:09,930 S1: there are some changes coming. And it would be it 155 00:09:09,970 --> 00:09:13,410 S1: would behoove you to stay informed on those. Well, we're 156 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:14,890 S1: going to head to the phones here in just a moment. 157 00:09:14,890 --> 00:09:17,770 S1: You know, a lot of times I get asked the question, 158 00:09:17,929 --> 00:09:22,489 S1: what are those primary principles we see in Scripture related 159 00:09:22,490 --> 00:09:24,290 S1: to money management? You know, if I were to just 160 00:09:24,290 --> 00:09:27,770 S1: do follow some simple guidelines, what would they be? And 161 00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:30,690 S1: I would say it starts with your recognition that you 162 00:09:30,730 --> 00:09:33,690 S1: are a steward. You are a manager of God's resources. 163 00:09:33,690 --> 00:09:37,170 S1: But then in terms of those practical money management decisions, 164 00:09:37,170 --> 00:09:40,130 S1: I would say there's really five main ones. Number one, 165 00:09:40,130 --> 00:09:43,010 S1: spend less than you earn. It sounds easy. It's a 166 00:09:43,010 --> 00:09:45,290 S1: lot harder to do, but it's the key to every 167 00:09:45,290 --> 00:09:49,490 S1: financial success. Number two avoid the use of debt. Debt, 168 00:09:49,530 --> 00:09:52,660 S1: mortgages the future. So we have to be careful. It's not. 169 00:09:52,660 --> 00:09:54,980 S1: The dead is a sin, but it doesn't mean that 170 00:09:54,980 --> 00:09:57,180 S1: it's helpful. So we need to be careful and we 171 00:09:57,179 --> 00:10:01,020 S1: need to apply, I think rules for borrowing, namely does 172 00:10:01,020 --> 00:10:04,300 S1: our spouse agree if we're married? If not, that's a showstopper. 173 00:10:04,660 --> 00:10:09,100 S1: Is the economic return greater than the economic cost? Well, 174 00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:11,420 S1: where does that happen? Well, take a house for example. 175 00:10:11,420 --> 00:10:14,020 S1: You borrow as long as you don't borrow too much 176 00:10:14,059 --> 00:10:16,980 S1: and get yourself into a squeeze month to month with 177 00:10:16,980 --> 00:10:20,140 S1: the payment you're borrowing for an asset that should be 178 00:10:20,140 --> 00:10:23,420 S1: appreciating over time, not every year, but over the the 179 00:10:23,460 --> 00:10:25,580 S1: long term it should be headed higher. That would be 180 00:10:25,580 --> 00:10:28,740 S1: an example of where the economic return is greater than 181 00:10:28,740 --> 00:10:31,780 S1: the economic cost. That would be the kind of thing 182 00:10:31,780 --> 00:10:35,540 S1: we would do where we'd say, okay, borrowing might make sense. 183 00:10:35,540 --> 00:10:38,660 S1: So avoid the use of debt. Live within your means. 184 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:42,140 S1: Next is have some liquidity or some margin. That just 185 00:10:42,140 --> 00:10:44,060 S1: means we don't live right up to the edge. You 186 00:10:44,059 --> 00:10:47,700 S1: remember in Ruth Boaz, he didn't, uh, harvest all the 187 00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:51,839 S1: way to the edge because that allowed then, uh, people 188 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,920 S1: to glean from the outer edges. That's the idea of margin. 189 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,920 S1: We don't consume everything. We shouldn't do it with our schedules. 190 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,320 S1: If you book yourself down to the last minute, the 191 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,360 S1: unexpected is going to come up. You're going to have 192 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,000 S1: no time for those things. The same is true in 193 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,200 S1: our financial lives. So just be thoughtful there. Set long 194 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,640 S1: term goals. You know, the reality is the longer term 195 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:17,400 S1: your perspective, the better the decision you're going to make today. 196 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,679 S1: So let's know where we're headed and make sure that 197 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:24,000 S1: it aligns with your values. And then number five give generously. 198 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,640 S1: Giving is what breaks the grip of money over our lives. 199 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,720 S1: It frees us from the grip of money. It's also, 200 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,319 S1: I think, a response to the grace that's been shown 201 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,600 S1: to us, namely, the grace of our Lord and Savior, uh, 202 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,760 S1: our natural response to what we have received because we 203 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,959 S1: are rich even before the first dollar, as we've been 204 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,480 S1: adopted into the family of God, our natural response is 205 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,420 S1: to be a generous people. And that includes, yes, our finances, 206 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:53,260 S1: but it should go well beyond that with your time 207 00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:56,179 S1: and your talents. All that God has given you. And 208 00:11:56,179 --> 00:11:58,219 S1: if we do those five things, avoid the use of 209 00:11:58,220 --> 00:12:02,020 S1: debt and live within our means and have some liquidity 210 00:12:02,020 --> 00:12:05,620 S1: or some margin, set long term goals and give generously 211 00:12:05,860 --> 00:12:10,020 S1: doesn't mean everything will always go perfect perfectly. We know 212 00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:12,220 S1: that's not true. We live in a fallen world. But 213 00:12:12,220 --> 00:12:15,380 S1: I will say by doing those things, you will put 214 00:12:15,380 --> 00:12:19,660 S1: yourself in a position to experience God's best. And that's 215 00:12:19,660 --> 00:12:22,620 S1: what we want to do. But we understand that our 216 00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:26,420 S1: hope and our treasure and our security and our future 217 00:12:26,420 --> 00:12:29,380 S1: is anchored in him, not the things of this world. 218 00:12:29,660 --> 00:12:32,540 S1: And when I hold everything with an open palm, not 219 00:12:32,540 --> 00:12:34,940 S1: only can he put more in, but he can take 220 00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:37,660 S1: it out. And I'm okay with that because I understand 221 00:12:37,660 --> 00:12:41,020 S1: it's all his anyway. So the question is then not 222 00:12:41,059 --> 00:12:44,140 S1: what should I do with my money? But what should 223 00:12:44,140 --> 00:12:47,020 S1: I do with God's money or God? What would you 224 00:12:47,020 --> 00:12:50,480 S1: have me to do? And when we reframe the question 225 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,760 S1: with that simple change. Boy, it does change everything about 226 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,520 S1: how we view what we've been entrusted to manage. I 227 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:59,000 S1: hope that's an encouragement to you today as you apply 228 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,880 S1: God's wisdom in your financial decisions. All right. Let's head 229 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,600 S1: to the phones. Joseph, give me your question there in Georgia. 230 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:05,160 S1: Go ahead. 231 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,839 S4: Hey. Thank you Rob. So I've just recently retired. I'm 232 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,960 S4: 68 years old. And, uh, the way I set up 233 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:13,640 S4: is I do have a house that I have for 234 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:17,000 S4: sale right now, but I also have a large, uh, 235 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,839 S4: you know, cash, uh, position that I'm doing money market with. 236 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,200 S4: But I'm looking at my 401 K, and I'm looking 237 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,120 S4: at how, you know, what's the best way to start 238 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,280 S4: to get distributions from that? I know in a couple 239 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,800 S4: of years I'll have mandatory distributions. But I just thought, 240 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:34,400 S4: you know, how do I take it out without incurring 241 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,000 S4: the higher tax penalties, that type of thing? 242 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,800 S1: Yeah, it's a great question. So how much, uh, are 243 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,280 S1: you going to need to rely on in that 401 244 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,080 S1: K to supplement other income sources? 245 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,420 S4: I really don't uh, I really don't, but I was 246 00:13:50,420 --> 00:13:52,660 S4: thinking that, you know, what I was looking at is, like, 247 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:54,860 S4: if I wanted to take a big jag of money out, 248 00:13:54,900 --> 00:13:56,020 S4: you know, then all of a sudden it's going to 249 00:13:56,020 --> 00:13:57,660 S4: bump me up to the higher tax bracket, and it's 250 00:13:57,660 --> 00:14:00,780 S4: going to eat into the profit, you know, of that 251 00:14:00,780 --> 00:14:02,540 S4: particular retirement account. 252 00:14:02,820 --> 00:14:04,820 S1: Yeah. It's a great thought. All right. Let's do this. 253 00:14:04,820 --> 00:14:07,500 S1: That's really helpful. Background I'm up against a break. Stay 254 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:09,740 S1: right there Joseph. When we come back, I'll give you 255 00:14:09,740 --> 00:14:14,140 S1: some thoughts on how you can consider pulling out as needed. 256 00:14:14,140 --> 00:14:16,620 S1: But to your point, making sure you don't pay any 257 00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:20,620 S1: tax unnecessarily. We'll take that question right after this break, Danny. 258 00:14:20,620 --> 00:14:29,740 S1: Coming your way as well. We'll be right back. Great 259 00:14:29,740 --> 00:14:31,860 S1: to have you with us today on Faith and Finance live. 260 00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:34,500 S1: I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls and questions at 261 00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:38,300 S1: 800 525 7000. Before the break, we were talking to 262 00:14:38,340 --> 00:14:42,980 S1: Joseph in Georgia. Joseph, 68, recently retired, has a 401 263 00:14:43,020 --> 00:14:44,860 S1: K with about a half a million in it. He's 264 00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:48,060 S1: wondering the best way to access those funds or to 265 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,440 S1: think about the strategic withdrawal of those funds prior to 266 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,120 S1: his required minimums kicking in. And, you know, let's say 267 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,240 S1: five years down the road and what he needs to know. 268 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,840 S1: And and it's a great question to ask Joseph, because 269 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:06,560 S1: sequence matters a common order, it's just a guide, not 270 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,760 S1: a rule, would be that you would take cash and 271 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,640 S1: taxable assets first, and then you'd take partial 401 withdrawals 272 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:21,080 S1: or better yet, Roth conversions while your income's low. Because 273 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,520 S1: a lot of times people have delayed Social Security. So 274 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,840 S1: you don't yet have your Social Security. We didn't talk 275 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:28,520 S1: about whether you do or not, but if your income 276 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,360 S1: is stopped because you're no longer working, you're not taking 277 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:34,280 S1: Social Security, or even if you are, you still don't 278 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,800 S1: have those required minimums yet. It's often an ideal time 279 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,120 S1: to begin converting some money to Roth up to a 280 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,680 S1: target tax bracket, and you could work with your CPA 281 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,600 S1: to say, okay, how much could I convert in this 282 00:15:46,690 --> 00:15:49,890 S1: you know, given year. So everything stays in a lower 283 00:15:49,890 --> 00:15:54,570 S1: bracket and then, you know, delay Social Security if appropriate 284 00:15:54,570 --> 00:15:59,610 S1: and then reduce, uh, future RMDs when they become mandatory 285 00:15:59,610 --> 00:16:03,890 S1: because you've systematically moved money over to the Roth. Now, 286 00:16:03,890 --> 00:16:07,010 S1: at that point, you could roll to an IRA if 287 00:16:07,010 --> 00:16:10,690 S1: you haven't already, and use a qualified charitable distribution as 288 00:16:10,690 --> 00:16:15,170 S1: another way to get money out and satisfy your RMD 289 00:16:15,450 --> 00:16:19,290 S1: without ever paying any tax on it. And maybe you 290 00:16:19,530 --> 00:16:23,490 S1: replace money you were giving away out of cash, and 291 00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:26,890 S1: instead do it out of your IRA. And again, that's 292 00:16:26,890 --> 00:16:29,050 S1: a way to get it out without it being taxable. 293 00:16:29,050 --> 00:16:30,650 S1: But give me your thoughts on that. 294 00:16:31,170 --> 00:16:33,330 S4: You know, that's that's perfect. I mean what a what 295 00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:36,850 S4: a great group of ideas right there to work with. Uh, yeah, 296 00:16:36,890 --> 00:16:39,650 S4: some some for sure. I mean, so I can give 297 00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:42,850 S4: I can, I can do contributions out of my uh 298 00:16:43,290 --> 00:16:46,170 S4: or K but at the same time work on that conversion. 299 00:16:46,270 --> 00:16:49,070 S4: and I started that earlier, but I don't have a 300 00:16:49,070 --> 00:16:51,670 S4: great deal over on the IRA side. But it sounds 301 00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:53,550 S4: like that's really a plan. 302 00:16:54,350 --> 00:16:56,110 S1: Yeah. And I think the key would be to to 303 00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:59,350 S1: figure out, yeah. Where are those thresholds for those various 304 00:16:59,350 --> 00:17:02,270 S1: tax brackets. Now keep in mind because it's a graduated 305 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:04,790 S1: tax system, you know when you trip over into the 306 00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:07,750 S1: next bracket, it's not like everything jumps up. I mean, 307 00:17:07,790 --> 00:17:11,149 S1: you pay up to the first bracket and then the 308 00:17:11,150 --> 00:17:13,310 S1: next portion, you pay the next bracket and then the 309 00:17:13,310 --> 00:17:15,550 S1: next portion and so on. So you don't have to 310 00:17:15,550 --> 00:17:18,590 S1: worry about kind of everything going up into that higher bracket. 311 00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:21,470 S1: But it would behoove you to do some planning to say, 312 00:17:21,470 --> 00:17:24,870 S1: how much could I convert this year to stay in 313 00:17:24,910 --> 00:17:28,230 S1: that lower bracket and, and just get as much moved 314 00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:30,790 S1: over between now and age 73 to the Roth as 315 00:17:30,790 --> 00:17:33,470 S1: you can? Just to clarify, I think you understand this, 316 00:17:33,470 --> 00:17:36,910 S1: but just to be sure, with the qualified charitable distribution, 317 00:17:36,910 --> 00:17:38,470 S1: it is going to need to be in an IRA, 318 00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:40,429 S1: not a 401 K, and you will need to be 319 00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:43,430 S1: at least 70.5. So you're still a couple of years 320 00:17:43,430 --> 00:17:45,889 S1: away from being able to do that. But when that 321 00:17:45,890 --> 00:17:49,649 S1: time comes between 70.5 and 73. You know what a 322 00:17:49,650 --> 00:17:53,130 S1: great opportunity to do some giving. And then eventually, once 323 00:17:53,130 --> 00:17:57,850 S1: you have RMDs, you can satisfy those RMDs with contributions 324 00:17:57,850 --> 00:18:01,530 S1: directly to a charity from your IRA. And, you know, 325 00:18:01,570 --> 00:18:05,970 S1: even replace that cash out of taxable accounts. So, Joseph, 326 00:18:06,010 --> 00:18:07,489 S1: all the best to you. Hey, stay on the line. 327 00:18:07,490 --> 00:18:08,810 S1: I'm going to send you a book that I think 328 00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:11,570 S1: will be an encouragement to you. It's called An Uncommon 329 00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:14,930 S1: Guide to Retirement. It'll give you just a biblical perspective 330 00:18:14,930 --> 00:18:17,810 S1: how to think of this next season of life. Okay. 331 00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:19,450 S4: Thank you so much, Rob. God bless. 332 00:18:19,490 --> 00:18:21,610 S1: All right. You too. Hang on the line. Let's go 333 00:18:21,609 --> 00:18:23,170 S1: to Georgia. Frank, how can I help? 334 00:18:24,010 --> 00:18:27,690 S5: Hey, Rob, thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, we've 335 00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:30,930 S5: got a I had to take a substantial RMD, and 336 00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:34,010 S5: so we've got a good bit of cash, and we're 337 00:18:34,050 --> 00:18:39,250 S5: wanting to share that with our children. More than $19,000 each. Um, 338 00:18:39,890 --> 00:18:42,850 S5: how do we do that without, uh, tax ramification? 339 00:18:43,210 --> 00:18:45,910 S1: Yeah, yeah. Well, first of all, if it's you and 340 00:18:45,910 --> 00:18:50,630 S1: your wife, you can each do 19,000 for 2026 to 341 00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:53,830 S1: any one individual. And you can do that to as 342 00:18:53,830 --> 00:18:57,030 S1: many recipients as you want. Uh, so between the two 343 00:18:57,030 --> 00:19:00,390 S1: of you, you could do 38,000, and that would still 344 00:19:00,390 --> 00:19:04,110 S1: fall within that annual gift exclusion. Uh, but if you 345 00:19:04,109 --> 00:19:07,750 S1: go over 38,000 between the two of you, you will 346 00:19:07,750 --> 00:19:11,790 S1: need to report that to the IRS. So basically, you 347 00:19:11,790 --> 00:19:15,550 S1: would fill out IRS form 709. You'd declare the amount 348 00:19:15,550 --> 00:19:19,510 S1: that goes beyond the 19,000 each. And then that would 349 00:19:19,510 --> 00:19:24,869 S1: start to chip away at your lifetime exclusion of $13 million. 350 00:19:24,990 --> 00:19:27,830 S1: So this is why most people never owe any gift 351 00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:30,669 S1: tax whatsoever, because unless you plan to give away more 352 00:19:30,670 --> 00:19:34,270 S1: than $13 million or the law changes, you're never going 353 00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:36,630 S1: to have any gift tax. The question is just whether 354 00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:38,950 S1: or not you need to report it. And that's where 355 00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:42,590 S1: that 19,000 or 19,000 times two comes into play. 356 00:19:42,910 --> 00:19:45,570 S5: Okay. So when we report that and we fill out 357 00:19:45,570 --> 00:19:49,050 S5: the form, I think it's 709 or something like that. Um, 358 00:19:49,250 --> 00:19:53,290 S5: there's no gift tax required to be paid at that time. 359 00:19:53,570 --> 00:19:55,610 S1: That's exactly right. What they're going to do is just 360 00:19:55,609 --> 00:19:59,130 S1: take that and apply it to your lifetime exclusion. And 361 00:19:59,130 --> 00:20:03,129 S1: until you get past that lifetime exclusion, which most people don't, uh, 362 00:20:03,130 --> 00:20:04,490 S1: there will be no gift tax. 363 00:20:05,530 --> 00:20:07,410 S5: Okay. Thank you so much for your time. 364 00:20:07,450 --> 00:20:11,250 S1: All right. Absolutely. Thanks for your call today. 800 525 365 00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:13,730 S1: 7000 is the number to call. We, uh, are taking 366 00:20:13,730 --> 00:20:17,369 S1: your calls and questions on anything financial today here on 367 00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:20,490 S1: faith and finance live. Uh, let's head to, uh, Florida. Mark. 368 00:20:20,490 --> 00:20:21,050 S1: Go ahead. 369 00:20:21,330 --> 00:20:23,370 S6: Hey, Rob. How you doing? Good evening. Good evening. 370 00:20:23,650 --> 00:20:24,330 S1: Hi, there. 371 00:20:25,050 --> 00:20:27,610 S6: Alright. God bless you. I was just listening. Always listening 372 00:20:27,609 --> 00:20:29,490 S6: every day. So, you know, you guys have been so 373 00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:33,650 S6: helpful and grateful and a blessing. And my question is, uh. Um, 374 00:20:33,930 --> 00:20:37,210 S6: God willing, I'll be Tuesday. Coming. I'll be 63. I 375 00:20:37,210 --> 00:20:40,930 S6: work full time, and I was thinking of taking, like, 376 00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:45,550 S6: my early Social Security benefits or platform, or because I'm 377 00:20:45,550 --> 00:20:49,149 S6: hearing that by 20, 30, 33. Social security will be 378 00:20:49,150 --> 00:20:50,910 S6: out of money. I don't know how good that is 379 00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:54,310 S6: or you know who that is, but it's possible. Will 380 00:20:54,310 --> 00:20:57,430 S6: I be penalized if I start like 63, 64 collecting 381 00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:58,150 S6: Social Security? 382 00:20:58,869 --> 00:21:02,230 S1: Uh, yes. Temporarily. But let's, uh, let's talk through each 383 00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:04,110 S1: of the things you mentioned here, because I think you're 384 00:21:04,109 --> 00:21:07,270 S1: raising some great points, uh, that I think will help 385 00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:09,990 S1: a lot of folks. Um, let's do this, though. I'm 386 00:21:09,990 --> 00:21:11,350 S1: going to have to hit a break here. When we 387 00:21:11,390 --> 00:21:14,310 S1: come back, though, we'll talk about this idea of the 388 00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:18,710 S1: Social Security trust fund running dry and what the implications 389 00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:21,510 S1: are of that. We'll talk about what happens to your 390 00:21:21,510 --> 00:21:25,150 S1: Social Security if you take it early. And then thirdly, 391 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:27,550 S1: if you did decide to do that and take the 392 00:21:27,550 --> 00:21:30,470 S1: permanent reduction, and I want to make sure you understand that, 393 00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:33,150 S1: how much you can work and how much you can 394 00:21:33,150 --> 00:21:36,990 S1: earn without your benefits being reduced. So there's there's several 395 00:21:36,990 --> 00:21:39,750 S1: things there, but they're all important. And so we'll cover 396 00:21:39,750 --> 00:21:42,800 S1: those just around the corner. This is faith and finance live. 397 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:55,080 S1: We'll be right back. Great to have you with us 398 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,720 S1: today on Faith and finance live. I'm Rob West. Before 399 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,159 S1: the break we were talking to Mark in Florida. Mark 400 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,000 S1: is 63. He's still working full time and he's wondering 401 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,840 S1: about taking Social Security benefits early. And the first point 402 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,760 S1: you mentioned there, Mark, which you're right, there is talk 403 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:15,360 S1: of the Social Security trust fund running out somewhere around 2034, 404 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,720 S1: I think is the latest projection. But keep in mind, 405 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,560 S1: even if that goes to zero, just based on the 406 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,400 S1: ongoing tax revenues, they expect that they would be able 407 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,920 S1: to pay about 80% of benefits to each person that 408 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,359 S1: would be entitled to benefits in that year. So just 409 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,880 S1: because the trust fund is gone doesn't mean benefits go 410 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,800 S1: to zero. It just means that there would be a 411 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,740 S1: reduction they'd be able to pay 80% of benefits that 412 00:22:42,740 --> 00:22:47,340 S1: were due. Uh, now, that would not be good, obviously. Uh, 413 00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:50,420 S1: but here's the thing that I'm pretty confident in is 414 00:22:50,420 --> 00:22:55,540 S1: that given how significant of an issue that is for taxpayers, uh, 415 00:22:55,780 --> 00:22:59,300 S1: and for voters, Congress is going to deal with it, 416 00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:02,620 S1: and we'll put measures in place between now and that 417 00:23:02,619 --> 00:23:05,580 S1: point to shore up Social Security. I mean, this is 418 00:23:05,580 --> 00:23:09,500 S1: just too much of a hot button issue for voters, 419 00:23:09,660 --> 00:23:14,139 S1: for elected leaders, uh, to allow their constituents to face 420 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:17,300 S1: any kind of reduction whatsoever. Now, you might ask, how 421 00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:19,500 S1: are they going to do that? Because the demographics are 422 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:22,740 S1: working against us, meaning there's more retirees than there are 423 00:23:22,740 --> 00:23:25,500 S1: workers to do it. And the way they're going to 424 00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:28,780 S1: do it is they'll likely start pushing out the full 425 00:23:28,780 --> 00:23:33,540 S1: retirement age or raising taxes or a combination of the two. 426 00:23:34,020 --> 00:23:37,020 S1: But keep in mind, you know, anything that they do, 427 00:23:37,140 --> 00:23:39,660 S1: even if they were to push out the full retirement age, 428 00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:43,680 S1: you know, somebody who's already collecting would probably not be 429 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,440 S1: subject to that. So I wouldn't be terribly concerned about 430 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:50,360 S1: this idea. Well, I better take it now because it 431 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,840 S1: might not be there. I just think you need to 432 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,120 S1: look at, you know, what the implications are of you 433 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,000 S1: taking it early before you make that decision. Because although 434 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000 S1: I can't promise anything, I'm fairly confident there's going to 435 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,720 S1: be changes made, um, which, you know, would result in the, 436 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,800 S1: the trust fund being shored up and therefore Social Security 437 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,480 S1: would be in a position to pay 100% of benefits. Now, 438 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,240 S1: the challenge with you taking it at 63 versus your 439 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,199 S1: full retirement age, which is 67 for most people today, 440 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,800 S1: would be you're looking at about a 25% reduction. So 441 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,679 S1: if your full retirement age, you know, was benefit was $2,000, 442 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,960 S1: you'd be looking at a $1,500 a month check. So 443 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,240 S1: a 25% reduction in that. And that's permanent. That's locked in. 444 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,020 S1: And if you live a long time, I mean, your 445 00:24:40,020 --> 00:24:43,420 S1: greatest risk in this season of life is longevity. So 446 00:24:43,420 --> 00:24:45,739 S1: if you have if you're healthy, you've got longevity in 447 00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:49,899 S1: your family. You know, you you live another 30 years. Uh, 448 00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:53,220 S1: you know, that Social Security check could be pretty important. 449 00:24:53,460 --> 00:24:56,820 S1: So this idea that you would wait while you're able 450 00:24:56,820 --> 00:25:00,340 S1: continue to work and therefore you're covering your bills and 451 00:25:00,340 --> 00:25:03,180 S1: you don't really, quote unquote, need the money, you might 452 00:25:03,180 --> 00:25:06,500 S1: as well let that check continue to grow, because that 453 00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:08,900 S1: higher check is going to be really valuable to you 454 00:25:09,060 --> 00:25:13,740 S1: down the road. Not to mention that the cost of 455 00:25:13,740 --> 00:25:18,380 S1: living adjustments, the annual inflation increases that they give to 456 00:25:18,420 --> 00:25:22,020 S1: all Social Security earners is going to be based on 457 00:25:22,060 --> 00:25:24,739 S1: that higher amount by you waiting. If you lock it 458 00:25:24,740 --> 00:25:28,340 S1: in at 1500. Those cost of living adjustments are based 459 00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:32,100 S1: on that starting point of 1500. Uh, now, let me 460 00:25:32,140 --> 00:25:33,980 S1: mention one other piece here and then I'll get your 461 00:25:33,980 --> 00:25:38,840 S1: questions and thoughts. You asked about reductions based on your earnings. 462 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:43,679 S1: So for 2026, if you are under full retirement age 463 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,800 S1: during the entire year of 2026, which you would be 464 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,920 S1: if you started at 63, uh, Social Security is going 465 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,280 S1: to reduce your check for, uh, $1 is going to 466 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,760 S1: be taken away from your benefits for every $2 you 467 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,960 S1: earn above the limit, which this year is 24,480. So 468 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:07,199 S1: every dollar you earn above 2480, um, you know, or 469 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,240 S1: every $2 you earn above that, they're going to take 470 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,680 S1: a dollar off your check now, and I apologize, this 471 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,879 S1: gets confusing, but let me throw one more piece at you. 472 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,879 S1: That one is temporary. And here's what I mean by that. 473 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:22,119 S1: That deduction that comes because you earned more than the 474 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,000 S1: limit will eventually be paid back to you after full 475 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:28,720 S1: retirement age. They're going to increase your check a little 476 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:34,000 S1: bit each month until you're fully repaid. But the other 477 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,260 S1: reduction that I mentioned previously by you taking it at 63? 478 00:26:38,300 --> 00:26:42,540 S1: That 25% reduction that's permanent, that never gets paid back 479 00:26:42,540 --> 00:26:45,939 S1: to you. It's just that this reduction that's purely based 480 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:48,859 S1: on you earning more than the limit that will eventually 481 00:26:48,859 --> 00:26:51,379 S1: come back to you down the road. I've given you 482 00:26:51,380 --> 00:26:53,500 S1: a lot of information to process, so let me stop there. 483 00:26:53,540 --> 00:26:54,659 S1: What questions do you have? 484 00:26:56,140 --> 00:26:58,220 S6: Yeah. Well, I was just wondering because like you just said, 485 00:26:58,220 --> 00:27:00,460 S6: you did explain everything. What I can understand, because I 486 00:27:00,460 --> 00:27:02,939 S6: was kind of worried, but not the Bible said not 487 00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:04,659 S6: to worry, but it kind of makes you kind of 488 00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:06,540 S6: worried because, like you said, with the economy as it 489 00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:09,340 S6: is now and then everything going on pretty much with 490 00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:12,540 S6: the terrorists, like I need to prepare now. So but yeah, 491 00:27:12,540 --> 00:27:14,660 S6: you pretty much answered and covered everything, and I really 492 00:27:14,660 --> 00:27:18,419 S6: appreciate it. So I'm hoping I'm hanging in waiting till 66, 67, 493 00:27:18,460 --> 00:27:19,420 S6: you know, God willing. 494 00:27:20,060 --> 00:27:22,659 S1: Yeah. And that will ensure that you'll get your full benefit. Now, 495 00:27:22,660 --> 00:27:24,820 S1: if you get to that point and you're still working 496 00:27:24,820 --> 00:27:27,620 S1: and enjoying the work that you're doing, and you can 497 00:27:27,619 --> 00:27:29,740 S1: wait all the way to 70, you can actually get 498 00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:33,060 S1: an additional 8% a year added to that check for 499 00:27:33,060 --> 00:27:36,379 S1: the rest of your life. Um, and so that's something 500 00:27:36,380 --> 00:27:39,189 S1: else to consider. But yeah, I think bottom line is, 501 00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:41,230 S1: if you don't need the money right now and you're 502 00:27:41,230 --> 00:27:43,510 S1: able to continue to work, I'd hold off as long 503 00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:45,629 S1: as you can. Hey, Mark, thanks for being on the program, 504 00:27:45,630 --> 00:27:48,389 S1: my friend. Lord bless you. Let's go to Indiana. Hi, Debbie. 505 00:27:48,430 --> 00:27:48,949 S1: Go ahead. 506 00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:52,750 S7: Hi. Thank you so much for your ministry. I wasn't 507 00:27:52,750 --> 00:27:56,350 S7: able to retire until I met you on the radio 508 00:27:56,350 --> 00:28:00,070 S7: two years ago. Three years ago. And learned that I 509 00:28:00,070 --> 00:28:03,790 S7: needed to be debt free. So thank you for that. Um, 510 00:28:03,790 --> 00:28:09,869 S7: I have three children. I'm 71, uh, 11 years, 11, 511 00:28:09,869 --> 00:28:15,230 S7: 12 years ago, three. My oldest child and her husband 512 00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:19,230 S7: and my husband all came up with the idea that my, 513 00:28:19,310 --> 00:28:22,629 S7: my oldest child could build a home. We would pay 514 00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:26,710 S7: to have the walkout basement built out, and we would 515 00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:31,750 S7: live there the rest of our lives. And, uh, that 516 00:28:31,750 --> 00:28:37,969 S7: was about $100,000, you know, 10 or $20,000, maybe over 517 00:28:37,970 --> 00:28:40,930 S7: that with landscaping and all of that stuff that my 518 00:28:40,930 --> 00:28:46,770 S7: husband did. My husband's gone. Um, I want to know 519 00:28:47,090 --> 00:28:52,450 S7: your thoughts on how do I distribute, uh, when I 520 00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:57,170 S7: pass my, um, savings. I was going to leave it 521 00:28:57,170 --> 00:29:02,210 S7: all to my two younger children because my daughter and 522 00:29:02,210 --> 00:29:07,810 S7: her husband received the money that was used on the home. 523 00:29:08,290 --> 00:29:12,530 S7: But now I've been in the home this long, and 524 00:29:12,570 --> 00:29:15,530 S7: I know this is probably a heart issue, but is 525 00:29:15,530 --> 00:29:19,410 S7: there a fair way to divide this up? I wasn't 526 00:29:19,410 --> 00:29:23,450 S7: going to leave my oldest child anything because they got 527 00:29:23,450 --> 00:29:27,770 S7: theirs first. But if I had lived, if I had 528 00:29:27,770 --> 00:29:30,770 S7: paid for an apartment for all those years, it would 529 00:29:30,770 --> 00:29:34,570 S7: be way beyond that $100,000. So what are your thoughts, Rob? 530 00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:37,230 S1: Yeah, it's a great question. And, you know, I don't 531 00:29:37,230 --> 00:29:39,190 S1: think there's a right or wrong answer here. You are 532 00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:42,150 S1: the steward. I would pray through it. You know, you 533 00:29:42,150 --> 00:29:44,030 S1: can take an approach where you say, I want to 534 00:29:44,030 --> 00:29:47,950 S1: make everything equal. In other cases, people don't do that. 535 00:29:47,990 --> 00:29:50,310 S1: I mean, Ron Blue and his book Splitting Heirs says 536 00:29:50,310 --> 00:29:53,830 S1: if you love your children equally, you will treat them uniquely. 537 00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:56,230 S1: And what he means by that is as you evaluate 538 00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:59,790 S1: the needs of the kids and where they're at financially 539 00:29:59,790 --> 00:30:03,070 S1: and what their life circumstances are, you may decide to 540 00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:06,070 S1: leave more to one or another, or you may have one. 541 00:30:06,070 --> 00:30:08,110 S1: And I'm not saying this is your case. You may 542 00:30:08,110 --> 00:30:10,990 S1: have one that you know is not pursuing the Lord 543 00:30:10,990 --> 00:30:13,550 S1: and is walking away from the Lord and in a 544 00:30:13,550 --> 00:30:17,150 S1: certain situation, dropping a lot of money in those situations 545 00:30:17,150 --> 00:30:21,110 S1: could actually be fuel to propel them away from the Lord. 546 00:30:21,110 --> 00:30:24,630 S1: Could be used for things that are not God honoring. Uh, 547 00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:27,670 S1: and even toxic to the to the child. So I 548 00:30:27,670 --> 00:30:30,710 S1: just think we need to exercise a lot of discernment. 549 00:30:30,910 --> 00:30:33,070 S1: Let's take this break here. When we come back, I'll 550 00:30:33,070 --> 00:30:36,530 S1: give you kind of three different approaches you can consider here. 551 00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:39,290 S1: And perhaps you can pray through the right one for you. 552 00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:47,570 S1: We'll be right back. Delighted to have you with us 553 00:30:47,570 --> 00:30:50,050 S1: today on Faith and Finance live. I'm Rob West. Before 554 00:30:50,050 --> 00:30:52,890 S1: the break we were talking to Debbie in Indiana. Debbie 555 00:30:52,930 --> 00:30:55,130 S1: has a 401 K with a couple of hundred thousand 556 00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:58,010 S1: dollars in it. She is 71, no debt. She has 557 00:30:58,010 --> 00:31:01,729 S1: three children, but wondering how to divide her estate among 558 00:31:01,730 --> 00:31:05,130 S1: them at her passing. One child lives in a home 559 00:31:05,130 --> 00:31:08,290 S1: with her and has equity in the house. And then 560 00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:13,450 S1: she's got her 401 K. Let's revisit the the home situation. 561 00:31:13,450 --> 00:31:16,410 S1: So did you say that the the child that's living 562 00:31:16,410 --> 00:31:19,209 S1: with you in your home? Debbie, did that child put 563 00:31:19,210 --> 00:31:21,650 S1: some of the money in to purchase that home? 564 00:31:22,290 --> 00:31:25,690 S7: Yes, yes, they are the ones on the title. They 565 00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:31,010 S7: put in over 300,000 and we put in a little 566 00:31:31,010 --> 00:31:36,190 S7: more than 100,000. It's their home. We live in the basement. 567 00:31:36,190 --> 00:31:38,310 S7: Or my husband's not here anymore. So. 568 00:31:38,510 --> 00:31:41,870 S1: Got it, got it. So let's say you've got 400 569 00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:46,710 S1: 000 in. Which means 75% of the home essentially is 570 00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:51,030 S1: belongs to this child, 25% belongs to you and your husband. 571 00:31:51,030 --> 00:31:53,510 S1: What do you think this home is worth today? 572 00:31:55,110 --> 00:32:01,630 S7: Today it's worth. Around 700. Now, I don't have any 573 00:32:01,630 --> 00:32:05,350 S7: stake in the home. Right on the title. Okay? 574 00:32:05,670 --> 00:32:09,390 S1: No, I realize that legally. But assuming your child agrees 575 00:32:09,390 --> 00:32:14,070 S1: with you, uh, you know, 25% of this home you 576 00:32:14,070 --> 00:32:16,790 S1: put the money in for. And so if we were 577 00:32:16,790 --> 00:32:19,270 S1: to apply that rule, even though it's your name's not 578 00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:25,670 S1: on the deed at a $700,000 valuation, you know, 175,000 579 00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:30,150 S1: of that is yours. Um, and the balance belongs, you know, 580 00:32:30,190 --> 00:32:34,930 S1: to your, your adult child and which is, um, you know, 581 00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:37,770 S1: I think something to consider. Uh, and then you said 582 00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:40,850 S1: your 41K is worth about 200,000. Is that right? 583 00:32:41,850 --> 00:32:43,170 S7: Yes. Yeah. 584 00:32:43,210 --> 00:32:46,290 S1: Okay. Yeah. So, you know, I think 1 in 1 585 00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:48,650 S1: option is to say, okay, we're going to try to 586 00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:52,370 S1: equalize all of this. And you know, what you would 587 00:32:52,370 --> 00:32:54,850 S1: do is you would say, listen, I'm going to try 588 00:32:54,850 --> 00:32:58,410 S1: to offset the the house equity. The challenge is this 589 00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:03,090 S1: home belongs you know, completely to this, this child. Um, 590 00:33:03,090 --> 00:33:05,530 S1: so one option would be to say listen, I'm going 591 00:33:05,570 --> 00:33:08,290 S1: to take my portion and just, you know, give it 592 00:33:08,290 --> 00:33:11,050 S1: as an inheritance to the child that lives in that home, 593 00:33:11,050 --> 00:33:13,170 S1: that put in the majority of the money, took the 594 00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:15,250 S1: risk on it, you know, has lived in it and 595 00:33:15,250 --> 00:33:17,890 S1: maintained it, put all the, you know, additional money in 596 00:33:17,930 --> 00:33:20,650 S1: to keep it up and so forth. And, you know, 597 00:33:20,690 --> 00:33:24,490 S1: that's equal to 175,000, your portion of what it has 598 00:33:24,490 --> 00:33:28,050 S1: grown to. And you just leave that, you know, to this, 599 00:33:28,050 --> 00:33:31,170 S1: this adult child, and then you take the 401 K 600 00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:35,260 S1: and you would just make your other two children, uh, 601 00:33:35,260 --> 00:33:40,260 S1: you know, co beneficiaries or beneficiaries, each entitled to 50% 602 00:33:40,260 --> 00:33:43,060 S1: of the value of that 401 k. Now you'd end 603 00:33:43,100 --> 00:33:47,380 S1: up giving a little less to those two than this, 604 00:33:47,380 --> 00:33:49,540 S1: this child that lives in the home. But I think 605 00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:52,700 S1: there needs to be some recognition that, you know, this 606 00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:54,459 S1: adult child that lives in the home has been the 607 00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:57,100 S1: one maintaining it and and doing all the things to 608 00:33:57,140 --> 00:33:59,340 S1: keep it up and put in the majority of the 609 00:33:59,340 --> 00:34:01,780 S1: money on the front end. Does that make sense? 610 00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:07,580 S7: It makes sense. She's the one that least needs it. Um, 611 00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:10,620 S7: but it makes. I understand what you're saying. 612 00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:14,460 S1: Yeah. I mean, the challenge is you don't own it 613 00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:19,219 S1: on paper legally. And so. And assuming she wants to 614 00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:22,700 S1: continue to stay in it after you were to pass away, 615 00:34:23,100 --> 00:34:25,500 S1: you wouldn't want her to be forced to sell it, 616 00:34:25,780 --> 00:34:27,980 S1: to be able to give part of the equity to 617 00:34:28,020 --> 00:34:31,719 S1: these other two children. Um, Um, and so unless she 618 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,399 S1: was going to sell it anyway. And she was in 619 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:38,240 S1: agreement with you that. Yeah. Mom, 175,000 of this, assuming 620 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,439 S1: it doesn't appreciate any more from here, is yours. And 621 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,680 S1: so after I sell it, you know, I'll take that 622 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,600 S1: 175,000 and add it to the whatever other assets you 623 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,080 S1: have and then allow that to be split three ways. Um, 624 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,120 S1: you know, that just doesn't seem realistic. Again, assuming she 625 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:55,520 S1: wants to stay in this home. 626 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,239 S7: Yeah. Um, that the home is almost paid for, so 627 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,600 S7: it's not an issue of her ever having to sell it. 628 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,760 S7: If I, uh, if she didn't get any inheritance. 629 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:09,240 S1: Right. Unless you wanted to try to make it equal. 630 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,880 S1: But again, um, you know, the only way for you 631 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,440 S1: to get any of this equity out of the home 632 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,280 S1: to to give it as an inheritance to another child, 633 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:19,799 S1: one of the other two siblings would be for her 634 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,880 S1: to sell it or be able to write a check 635 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,839 S1: for it. And I think that's going to be problematic, 636 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,319 S1: especially since she's the sole owner of it. So I think, 637 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:30,140 S1: you know, this is a situation where there needs to 638 00:35:30,140 --> 00:35:31,980 S1: be just a lot of communication. And I think you 639 00:35:32,020 --> 00:35:34,460 S1: sit down with her and first you need to pray 640 00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:36,580 S1: through and decide you know, what you think you want 641 00:35:36,620 --> 00:35:39,860 S1: to do. But it seems like just given the ownership structure, 642 00:35:39,900 --> 00:35:43,100 S1: given the way this is all materialized, I would probably 643 00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:45,660 S1: not try to pull any of that equity to give 644 00:35:45,660 --> 00:35:48,859 S1: to the other two children. I'd probably just say, you 645 00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:50,739 S1: know what? My gift to you is going to be 646 00:35:50,739 --> 00:35:53,260 S1: this my portion of this home that I put in 647 00:35:53,460 --> 00:35:55,299 S1: and then all of my other assets, I'm going to 648 00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:57,540 S1: split equally among the other two children. 649 00:35:57,780 --> 00:36:03,540 S7: Okay. I understand what you're saying now. Um, yeah. That's difficult. 650 00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:07,780 S7: That's okay. But I have been praying about this, and 651 00:36:08,980 --> 00:36:11,980 S7: I know it's a hard thing, and it's just I 652 00:36:12,140 --> 00:36:15,219 S7: can't haven't been able to come up with an answer. 653 00:36:15,660 --> 00:36:18,500 S7: Of course, I won't know when I'm gone. I don't 654 00:36:18,500 --> 00:36:21,860 S7: know that I'll ever know, but, uh, I just don't know. 655 00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:24,020 S8: Well, do you believe that. 656 00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:25,940 S7: Most ability. 657 00:36:26,219 --> 00:36:30,560 S1: To discern. some money. Does your daughter that you live 658 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,080 S1: with see that as that home is one fourth of 659 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,600 S1: that or thereabouts? Maybe she hasn't thought about it quite 660 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,160 S1: that way, but do you believe she sees a portion 661 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,000 S1: of that home as being yours? 662 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:43,520 S7: No. 663 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:44,520 S1: Okay. 664 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:45,880 S7: So that they do not. 665 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,920 S1: Okay. So that 100,000 that you put in initially, she 666 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,160 S1: sees that as just your contribution to being able to 667 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:53,880 S1: live there. 668 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:55,520 S7: Correct. 669 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,759 S1: Okay. That's right. And she's she's paid all the utilities 670 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,480 S1: and all the expenses and so forth. 671 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,080 S7: Everything, you know. Yeah, we did some landscaping when it 672 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,120 S7: was brand new. I've put in a mailbox. I've changed 673 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,160 S7: a window, you know, little things. Not compared to what 674 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:11,800 S7: they do. 675 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,000 S1: Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I think that's reasonable to. Yeah. 676 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:18,959 S1: And I think that's reasonable to say. Listen, we want 677 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,200 S1: you to live here. You had the ability to put 678 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,799 S1: in some money which has allowed us to, you know, 679 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,320 S1: give you a space in the home to live. We've 680 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,420 S1: maintained it, paid all the expenses. And so this idea 681 00:37:29,420 --> 00:37:31,299 S1: that you would take your portion and make it the 682 00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,180 S1: inheritance and then split the remaining with the other two, 683 00:37:34,219 --> 00:37:37,380 S1: I mean, that that seems logical to me. But again, 684 00:37:37,380 --> 00:37:39,819 S1: ultimately there's not a right or wrong decision here. So 685 00:37:39,820 --> 00:37:43,219 S1: I think you just need to, you know, last, ask 686 00:37:43,219 --> 00:37:45,100 S1: the Lord to give you some wisdom here as you 687 00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,100 S1: you navigate this and but I don't think there's anything 688 00:37:48,100 --> 00:37:50,420 S1: wrong with that approach. Hey, I'm going to send you 689 00:37:50,420 --> 00:37:52,779 S1: a copy of Ron Blue's book Splitting Errors. I think 690 00:37:52,780 --> 00:37:56,020 S1: it's the best book just to process these kinds of 691 00:37:56,020 --> 00:37:59,060 S1: decisions from a biblical perspective. Maybe that will give you 692 00:37:59,060 --> 00:38:02,380 S1: some other insights and maybe some clarity around the path forward. 693 00:38:02,380 --> 00:38:04,020 S1: So stay on the line. We'll get your information, and 694 00:38:04,020 --> 00:38:06,980 S1: we appreciate your call today. Debbie. Lord bless you. Uh, 695 00:38:06,980 --> 00:38:08,820 S1: let's go to Minnesota. Danny. Go ahead. 696 00:38:09,380 --> 00:38:12,379 S9: Hey, Rob. Uh, question about Social Security, and I've already 697 00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:15,339 S9: been hearing you talk something about it, but this new, big, 698 00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:19,700 S9: beautiful bill. I just started collecting Social Security. I'm 63, 699 00:38:19,700 --> 00:38:23,620 S9: so I had to take it for physical reasons. Okay. Uh, 700 00:38:23,620 --> 00:38:26,700 S9: the understanding of not paying taxes on it. How does 701 00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,000 S9: that work? exactly? So if I'm getting $1,000 a month, 702 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,640 S9: do I have to pay 2,030% of that or is 703 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,040 S9: it is it tax free? 704 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,239 S1: Yeah, it's a great question. So, um, there's a little 705 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,600 S1: confusion about that because President Trump was campaigning on this 706 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,560 S1: idea of eliminating taxes for Social Security. But once it 707 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,439 S1: made its way through into what is now the one 708 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,279 S1: big beautiful Bill law, it didn't quite come out the 709 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,520 S1: way he intended. Uh, so essentially what happened is the 710 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:01,760 S1: new law created a special $6,000 senior tax deduction. And 711 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,319 S1: the reason that a lot of people say that it 712 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:09,160 S1: eliminates tax on Social Security is because that $6,000 senior 713 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:14,319 S1: tax deduction that's new effectively wipes out Social Security for 714 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,600 S1: many retirees. And so that specific deduction is strictly limited 715 00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:25,880 S1: to taxpayers 65 and older. Um, so since you're only 63, 716 00:39:26,170 --> 00:39:29,930 S1: You're subject to the old rules until your next birthday. 717 00:39:30,210 --> 00:39:32,969 S1: And so that means if your provisional income, which is 718 00:39:32,969 --> 00:39:39,130 S1: your adjusted gross income, plus any nontaxable interest, plus 50% 719 00:39:39,130 --> 00:39:43,690 S1: of your Social Security, if it's over $25,000 as a 720 00:39:43,690 --> 00:39:47,969 S1: single filer or 32,000 as a married filer, then you 721 00:39:47,969 --> 00:39:53,129 S1: will owe taxes on up to 85% of your benefits. 722 00:39:53,330 --> 00:39:59,049 S9: Holy smoke. So $1,000. I'm looking at only $200 to 723 00:39:59,090 --> 00:40:00,089 S9: live on, basically. 724 00:40:00,290 --> 00:40:01,770 S1: Uh, help me with that. 725 00:40:01,810 --> 00:40:04,890 S9: Well, if I'm making $1,000 in Social Security, you're saying 726 00:40:04,890 --> 00:40:08,890 S9: I have to put aside. I can get taxed for 85% 727 00:40:08,890 --> 00:40:09,290 S9: of it? 728 00:40:09,650 --> 00:40:12,049 S1: Well, it would be considered taxable income, but I don't 729 00:40:12,050 --> 00:40:13,890 S1: think you're going to go over the threshold. So you're 730 00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:15,610 S1: not working any longer, right? 731 00:40:16,330 --> 00:40:19,890 S9: I am doing very minimally though. Yeah. Way under the 732 00:40:19,930 --> 00:40:22,530 S9: allotted amount. So I don't go over that, you know. 733 00:40:22,570 --> 00:40:27,509 S1: Yeah. So are you a single filer or married filing jointly. 734 00:40:28,469 --> 00:40:30,150 S9: We joined jointly. Yep. Married? 735 00:40:30,430 --> 00:40:34,950 S1: Yeah. So you have up to 32,000 in income or 736 00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:36,589 S1: do you have. If so, if you were to take. 737 00:40:36,590 --> 00:40:38,710 S1: So you're getting how much are you getting from Social Security. 738 00:40:39,270 --> 00:40:39,430 S9: Yeah. 739 00:40:39,510 --> 00:40:45,669 S1: 1091 okay. So 1000 1091 is your Social Security. We 740 00:40:45,670 --> 00:40:50,870 S1: take half of that. Okay. And so that's $545. And 741 00:40:50,870 --> 00:40:54,989 S1: we multiply that by 12. That's $6,500. Okay. Well, you 742 00:40:54,989 --> 00:40:59,150 S1: get up to 32,000 in provisional income before you pay 743 00:40:59,310 --> 00:41:02,550 S1: any taxes on your Social Security. So are you getting 744 00:41:02,710 --> 00:41:07,310 S1: beyond your Social Security, another $25,000 in income? 745 00:41:07,350 --> 00:41:08,830 S9: No, not even close. 746 00:41:09,070 --> 00:41:11,589 S1: So then you're way under, which means your your Social 747 00:41:11,590 --> 00:41:13,430 S1: Security is not taxable at all. 748 00:41:13,590 --> 00:41:16,270 S9: But then my wife's income would be included in that 749 00:41:16,270 --> 00:41:18,110 S9: because we file jointly. Correct. 750 00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:19,310 S1: Absolutely. Yeah. 751 00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:24,230 S9: Yeah. And she makes under probably under 40,000 a year. 752 00:41:24,230 --> 00:41:27,250 S9: So we're living very meaningfully. And that would. 753 00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:27,489 S1: Be. 754 00:41:27,610 --> 00:41:27,970 S9: It. 755 00:41:28,410 --> 00:41:30,210 S1: Yeah, but but what you're telling me is if she 756 00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:33,489 S1: makes around 40 and then you've got another 6500 because 757 00:41:33,489 --> 00:41:36,489 S1: we count half of your Social Security, uh, you're going 758 00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:39,970 S1: to be over the 32,000. So you're a poor some 759 00:41:39,969 --> 00:41:43,370 S1: portion between 50 and 85% of your Social Security is 760 00:41:43,370 --> 00:41:46,570 S1: going to be taxable. Now, that doesn't mean it's 85% 761 00:41:46,570 --> 00:41:50,130 S1: of your Social Security. It means 85% of your Social 762 00:41:50,130 --> 00:41:55,930 S1: Security is taxable as income. But if you're in the 22% bracket, 763 00:41:56,170 --> 00:41:59,649 S1: that's just 22% of that portion. Okay. So it's not 764 00:41:59,650 --> 00:42:01,969 S1: the whole thing. It's just going to be added to 765 00:42:01,969 --> 00:42:03,930 S1: your income. So here's what I would recommend you do. 766 00:42:03,930 --> 00:42:08,009 S1: I'd get with a CPA and just have that CPA 767 00:42:08,130 --> 00:42:10,930 S1: estimate your tax liability because you don't want it to 768 00:42:10,969 --> 00:42:13,049 S1: catch you by surprise. But it's not going to be 769 00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:15,129 S1: the full amount. It's going to be a very small 770 00:42:15,290 --> 00:42:19,370 S1: amount of a portion of your Social Security. Thanks for 771 00:42:19,370 --> 00:42:22,010 S1: your call today. Feed the Finest Lives a partnership between 772 00:42:22,010 --> 00:42:24,010 S1: Moody Radio and Faith five. We'll see you tomorrow.