1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,680 S1: I want to live well. How about you? I want 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,760 S1: to thrive in the middle of our chaotic times. I 3 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,160 S1: want to persevere through the hard times. And I don't 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,040 S1: want to be pulled into the ditch on either side 5 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,280 S1: of the road by well-meaning people who want to tell 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,360 S1: me what to think and what to do. Instead, I 7 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,119 S1: want to be like Alan Noble, whose superpower is, I think, 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:31,920 S1: helping us learn how to think and how to discern 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,920 S1: what to do, how to live with all the choices 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,320 S1: that we have out there. I read his last book, 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,159 S1: and I thought all I needed to do was get 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,560 S1: out of bed. Well, evidently there's more to it than that. 13 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,960 S1: And you're going to find out more about living well 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,640 S1: today at the radio backyard fence on the program. From 15 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:51,640 S1: the heart to the heart for the heart. Find out 16 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,280 S1: more about the topic, our guest and our featured resource 17 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:59,160 S1: at Chris fabry.org. Welcome to June. Come on in June. 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,250 S1: Have a seat. Let's see what we can accomplish in 19 00:01:01,250 --> 00:01:03,650 S1: the next four weeks or so. And let me thank 20 00:01:03,690 --> 00:01:06,810 S1: our team behind the scenes. Ryan McConaughey's doing all things technical. 21 00:01:06,850 --> 00:01:09,850 S1: He's back in the chair. Tricia is back in the chair. Yay! 22 00:01:10,650 --> 00:01:14,490 S1: Lisa is helping out. Josh is back as well. We 23 00:01:14,490 --> 00:01:17,850 S1: are fully staffed. And thank you, friends and partners of 24 00:01:17,850 --> 00:01:20,810 S1: this program for helping us out in May. As sovereign 25 00:01:20,810 --> 00:01:22,890 S1: host of this program, I get to choose a thank 26 00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:26,809 S1: you gift for anybody who supports us during June, which 27 00:01:26,810 --> 00:01:30,050 S1: is our fiscal year end. If you were wondering, and 28 00:01:30,050 --> 00:01:32,690 S1: I have chosen a book, it is a legacy book 29 00:01:32,690 --> 00:01:35,570 S1: with a voice that, though we lost him in March, 30 00:01:36,130 --> 00:01:39,649 S1: still speaks with clarity. I'm talking about author, Bible teacher, 31 00:01:39,650 --> 00:01:45,929 S1: tireless racial reconciliation proponent doctor John M Perkins. He penned 32 00:01:45,930 --> 00:01:49,650 S1: parting words to the church on race and love. It's 33 00:01:49,650 --> 00:01:53,850 S1: titled One Blood, and I want you to receive a 34 00:01:53,850 --> 00:01:56,370 S1: copy as you support this program. So call with a 35 00:01:56,410 --> 00:02:00,650 S1: gift of any size today at 800 6695 Fabbri. This 36 00:02:00,650 --> 00:02:02,530 S1: is our first day. It's the first chance to tell 37 00:02:02,530 --> 00:02:06,610 S1: you about this. Uh, Chris Fabbri live.org is the website. 38 00:02:06,610 --> 00:02:10,490 S1: Scroll down. Doctor Perkins believed no institution on earth was 39 00:02:10,490 --> 00:02:14,250 S1: more equipped or capable of bringing transformation to the cause 40 00:02:14,250 --> 00:02:19,010 S1: of reconciliation than the church. So what do we do 41 00:02:19,010 --> 00:02:22,770 S1: with that? I know this will motivate you, probably challenge 42 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:25,850 S1: you in a lot of ways and encourage you as well. 43 00:02:25,889 --> 00:02:28,609 S1: Let me send you a copy of One Blood by 44 00:02:28,610 --> 00:02:37,169 S1: Doctor John Perkins. (866) 953-2279, or go to Chris Fabry live.org. 45 00:02:37,210 --> 00:02:38,810 S1: It would be great to hear from you on this 46 00:02:38,810 --> 00:02:46,370 S1: very first day of June 2026. Doctor. Oh. Allen Noble 47 00:02:46,410 --> 00:02:50,450 S1: is associate professor of English at Oklahoma Baptist University, a 48 00:02:50,450 --> 00:02:54,650 S1: fellow at the Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics. He's written, 49 00:02:54,650 --> 00:02:57,260 S1: as I mentioned, on getting Out of bed, and I 50 00:02:57,260 --> 00:03:02,660 S1: did today. You are not your own and disruptive witness, 51 00:03:02,660 --> 00:03:06,540 S1: among others. He's published articles in The Atlantic. The Gospel coalition, 52 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:09,060 S1: first things Christianity. Today, he lives with his wife and 53 00:03:09,060 --> 00:03:12,860 S1: three children in Oklahoma City. And her featured resource at 54 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:18,700 S1: that website. Click through today's information to live well. Practical 55 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:23,660 S1: wisdom for moving through chaotic times. Doctor noble, welcome back 56 00:03:23,660 --> 00:03:25,300 S1: to the program today. How are you doing? 57 00:03:26,020 --> 00:03:27,980 S2: I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. 58 00:03:28,260 --> 00:03:31,180 S1: Doing well, living well. It all works together. Okay. I 59 00:03:31,180 --> 00:03:33,740 S1: think I asked you this last time when I. But 60 00:03:33,740 --> 00:03:35,380 S1: I had just gotten out of bed, so I can't 61 00:03:35,380 --> 00:03:37,260 S1: remember what is the O stand for? 62 00:03:37,980 --> 00:03:41,380 S2: It stands for Orville, which was my grandfather's name. 63 00:03:41,420 --> 00:03:42,220 S3: Yeah, that's right. 64 00:03:42,220 --> 00:03:44,500 S1: I remember now you told me that. Yeah. So now 65 00:03:44,500 --> 00:03:46,340 S1: we've heard it again for those who didn't hear the 66 00:03:46,340 --> 00:03:49,140 S1: other program. All right, so this is what you've written 67 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:52,140 S1: to live. Well, this is Alan Noble's life hacks for 68 00:03:52,140 --> 00:03:54,180 S1: your best life. Now, is that right? 69 00:03:55,910 --> 00:03:57,990 S2: I. I wish it were. I wish I had the 70 00:03:57,990 --> 00:04:02,190 S2: seven life hacks for making your life more optimal and 71 00:04:02,190 --> 00:04:05,550 S2: fixing everything, but I. I don't have those. I don't 72 00:04:05,550 --> 00:04:07,670 S2: know what those were. And if I probably gave you 73 00:04:07,670 --> 00:04:10,630 S2: the seven life hacks for fixing your life and making 74 00:04:10,630 --> 00:04:13,190 S2: it more optimal, it would just make your life more 75 00:04:13,190 --> 00:04:17,349 S2: chaotic and, and stressful. In fact, because I really feel 76 00:04:17,350 --> 00:04:20,790 S2: like if you look around and you pay attention, everybody's 77 00:04:20,790 --> 00:04:23,190 S2: telling you how to improve your life in a more 78 00:04:23,190 --> 00:04:26,630 S2: optimal way. Everybody's telling you, here are the seven steps 79 00:04:26,630 --> 00:04:29,470 S2: you need to improve your your life to do the 80 00:04:29,470 --> 00:04:32,109 S2: dishes better, to take care of your kids better, to 81 00:04:32,310 --> 00:04:37,950 S2: improve your health and your fitness and your job and everything. And, um, 82 00:04:38,230 --> 00:04:41,590 S2: everybody's got an opinion and, and it, it overwhelms us. 83 00:04:41,589 --> 00:04:44,870 S2: It leaves us stressed and, and, and, and anxious. 84 00:04:45,430 --> 00:04:48,029 S1: Yeah. I saw it over the weekend. If your garbage 85 00:04:48,029 --> 00:04:51,030 S1: bags are falling through, you know, here's the rubber band 86 00:04:51,029 --> 00:04:53,070 S1: you can put around and this, you know, there's nothing 87 00:04:53,070 --> 00:04:57,109 S1: wrong with that, But it's but we have, in a way, 88 00:04:57,270 --> 00:04:59,550 S1: as going through the book, we in a way have 89 00:04:59,550 --> 00:05:04,230 S1: reduced our Christian life, our down to the essence of 90 00:05:04,510 --> 00:05:08,070 S1: can I make things easier for me today? Can I 91 00:05:08,110 --> 00:05:11,870 S1: make my life easier? Do you agree with that? That 92 00:05:11,910 --> 00:05:15,230 S1: what I said about your superpower is helping us learn 93 00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:16,630 S1: how to think. 94 00:05:18,670 --> 00:05:21,950 S2: I know that's a big question. Yeah. I don't know 95 00:05:21,950 --> 00:05:26,109 S2: if I have a superpower, but I would I hope, 96 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:31,549 S2: I hope that I have the gift of helping people to, 97 00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:36,150 S2: to see things that are, are before them and name 98 00:05:36,150 --> 00:05:41,750 S2: those things and understand them better. And, um, those, those 99 00:05:41,750 --> 00:05:44,710 S2: are my favorite authors are, are authors that help me 100 00:05:44,710 --> 00:05:48,430 S2: to see things that I can see in shadows, but 101 00:05:48,430 --> 00:05:51,109 S2: I can't quite name. And that's what I'm trying to 102 00:05:51,110 --> 00:05:53,680 S2: do in this book is that I think that a 103 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,240 S2: lot of people know that the voices that they're hearing 104 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,599 S2: from the world are overwhelming and stressful, and they're not 105 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:05,520 S2: helping them live well. It's not working. Their lives aren't there. 106 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,000 S2: They're not pointing them to who they are made to 107 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,279 S2: be in Christ. Okay. So this isn't working for a 108 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,040 S2: lot of people. And they know it. They're stressed, they're overwhelmed, 109 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,960 S2: they're anxious. So this isn't working and they know they 110 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,400 S2: need something else. So the question is what else is there? 111 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,600 S2: And they know they need a different approach. So what 112 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,240 S2: is that other approach. So there's a hunger for something deeper, 113 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:35,600 S2: something more meaningful, something richer, something biblical. Right. And what 114 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,640 S2: I'm trying to do is name that thing. And I 115 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:40,760 S2: feel like if I can name that thing and help 116 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,120 S2: point people to that, then I have done something. Then 117 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:45,360 S2: I've done something helpful. 118 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:49,040 S1: You've written my fear is that modern society has conditioned 119 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,570 S1: us to be full of morality, albeit a shifting and 120 00:06:53,570 --> 00:06:58,650 S1: ambiguous morality, but lacking in any virtues because it denies 121 00:06:58,650 --> 00:07:02,089 S1: that we have a telos. As a result, we are 122 00:07:02,089 --> 00:07:06,450 S1: anxiously striving to do the right thing, but never sure 123 00:07:06,450 --> 00:07:09,570 S1: what the right thing is. Now you're not talking. So 124 00:07:09,610 --> 00:07:13,770 S1: two questions. Define telos and you're not talking about the 125 00:07:13,770 --> 00:07:16,810 S1: church necessarily, though this can happen in the church. You're 126 00:07:16,810 --> 00:07:21,370 S1: talking about what culture, what society can put us into 127 00:07:21,370 --> 00:07:24,650 S1: their mold. And so that we don't, we strive to 128 00:07:24,690 --> 00:07:27,050 S1: do what's right, but we don't really know if we've 129 00:07:27,050 --> 00:07:29,250 S1: hit the mark. So explain that. 130 00:07:29,730 --> 00:07:33,370 S2: Yeah. That's correct. That's correct. So tell us, is our 131 00:07:33,530 --> 00:07:37,610 S2: end goal, our end purpose that we are striving towards. 132 00:07:37,610 --> 00:07:41,010 S2: So for Christians, for actually for everyone, but Christians should 133 00:07:41,010 --> 00:07:44,410 S2: know that their telos is in God. So their telos 134 00:07:44,450 --> 00:07:49,250 S2: is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. The Westminster 135 00:07:49,250 --> 00:07:52,530 S2: standards would say that Glorify God and enjoy him forever. 136 00:07:52,570 --> 00:07:57,210 S2: That's the chief end of man. And, um, so the 137 00:07:57,250 --> 00:08:04,290 S2: virtues are actually oriented towards pointing. They're oriented towards our telos. 138 00:08:04,330 --> 00:08:09,730 S2: They help us, uh, move toward that goal. They move 139 00:08:09,730 --> 00:08:14,730 S2: us toward that goal. Um, and, um, what I said 140 00:08:14,730 --> 00:08:19,090 S2: earlier in that, in that passage about not knowing what is, 141 00:08:19,130 --> 00:08:22,810 S2: what is right, but trying to pursue what is right. Um, 142 00:08:23,170 --> 00:08:25,369 S2: you're absolutely right that I am, I am talking about 143 00:08:25,370 --> 00:08:28,970 S2: culture in general. I'm talking about culture in general, but, but, 144 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:32,689 S2: but it is true that the culture that the church adopts, 145 00:08:32,690 --> 00:08:37,970 S2: that cultural view so often, where we are caught up 146 00:08:37,970 --> 00:08:41,250 S2: in trying to figure out what the culture thinks is right. 147 00:08:41,250 --> 00:08:44,410 S2: And what I often say is that, as an example, 148 00:08:45,490 --> 00:08:49,260 S2: we live in something what, what one philosopher calls liquid modernity, 149 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:53,220 S2: where what was acceptable to say two weeks ago is 150 00:08:53,220 --> 00:08:56,700 S2: unacceptable to say today and in another week it will 151 00:08:56,700 --> 00:09:00,620 S2: be acceptable again. And and that kind of that kind 152 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:03,260 S2: of environment. What does it do to you? It creates 153 00:09:03,260 --> 00:09:06,420 S2: angst and anxiety and frustration and confusion. 154 00:09:06,460 --> 00:09:08,100 S1: Gives you whiplash is what it does. 155 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:11,380 S2: Yeah. You don't know how to live. You don't know 156 00:09:11,380 --> 00:09:12,300 S2: how to live. 157 00:09:12,340 --> 00:09:15,660 S1: Yeah. Because the the statue that they tore down is like, well, 158 00:09:15,660 --> 00:09:18,300 S1: wait a minute. Now that now the person is okay. 159 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:20,980 S1: And so we can say, and I can say, I 160 00:09:21,020 --> 00:09:25,940 S1: can't say this, but now, now I can say this or, um, 161 00:09:26,620 --> 00:09:29,780 S1: choose your gender and you choose. There's so many choices 162 00:09:29,780 --> 00:09:32,900 S1: out there. How do I, how do I help the 163 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:35,980 S1: person in front of me who is mixed up about 164 00:09:35,980 --> 00:09:39,300 S1: their identity? See, all of these things come into play 165 00:09:39,660 --> 00:09:42,020 S1: and we're going to get into some, I don't guarantee 166 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,180 S1: we're going to do all seven today because it's just 167 00:09:44,179 --> 00:09:47,340 S1: too deep. But I want you to hear from Alan 168 00:09:47,429 --> 00:09:52,829 S1: Noble today. The featured resource@kris.org is to live Well. Three 169 00:09:52,830 --> 00:09:58,150 S1: words to live well. Subtitled Practical Wisdom for Moving Through 170 00:09:58,190 --> 00:10:01,070 S1: Chaotic Times. I want you to listen to this for 171 00:10:01,070 --> 00:10:04,550 S1: your own life, and think of the younger person who 172 00:10:04,550 --> 00:10:11,030 S1: is going through this as well. Our number is (877) 548-3675. 173 00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:24,390 S1: Doctor Alan Noble has written a really deep book. It 174 00:10:24,390 --> 00:10:27,150 S1: came out in April, and I'm just now being able 175 00:10:27,150 --> 00:10:29,870 S1: to talk about it to make sense out of what 176 00:10:29,870 --> 00:10:32,829 S1: he's really saying, not because he hasn't written it well, 177 00:10:32,830 --> 00:10:35,790 S1: but it's a deep book to live well. The well 178 00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:39,430 S1: is deep with Alan Noble to live Well. Practical wisdom 179 00:10:39,429 --> 00:10:43,150 S1: for moving through chaotic Times is a featured resource. Go 180 00:10:43,150 --> 00:10:49,550 S1: to kris.org. Chris Fabry, live.org. Is this a younger person? 181 00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:53,070 S1: You teach college aged people, so you want to be 182 00:10:53,070 --> 00:10:55,830 S1: relevant to them. But it seems to me that this 183 00:10:56,070 --> 00:11:00,550 S1: could be a younger persons struggle, or it could be 184 00:11:00,710 --> 00:11:04,390 S1: transcending into my age category. What do you think? 185 00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:08,150 S2: Yeah. So when you write a book like this or 186 00:11:08,150 --> 00:11:11,670 S2: any book, you have to have a very narrow target 187 00:11:11,670 --> 00:11:15,150 S2: and then you have wider targets that you're thinking of. 188 00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:18,550 S2: And so when I wrote this book, I, in fact, 189 00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:23,870 S2: I dedicated it to my students and I had those, 190 00:11:24,150 --> 00:11:27,390 S2: those students in mind when I wrote this book. But 191 00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:32,710 S2: I also recognized that it's not just college age students, 192 00:11:32,750 --> 00:11:36,470 S2: high school students, people in their 20s and early 30s 193 00:11:36,510 --> 00:11:42,710 S2: who were wrestling with questions of uncertainty about value, uncertainty 194 00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:47,480 S2: about justice, Uncertainty about the meaning of the word love 195 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:50,640 S2: that a lot of people who are middle aged and 196 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,679 S2: older are confused about how to make life decisions, are 197 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:59,760 S2: confused about how to make wise judgments, or confused about 198 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,560 S2: what justice is. Are confused about what? How to have faith. Um. 199 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,680 S2: I know many people who are middle aged or older 200 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,080 S2: who are going through the process of deconstruction of their faith, 201 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,120 S2: and which is a concept that I wrestle with in the, uh, 202 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,520 S2: in the book. And so, um, it is a book 203 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,440 S2: whose narrow target, I think it's most helpful for those 204 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,680 S2: who are, who are on the younger side, but I 205 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,800 S2: think it will resonate and be helpful for, for older 206 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:28,720 S2: folks as well. 207 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,400 S1: Yeah. It is. And you use the word in the title. Well, 208 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:38,080 S1: instead of get it right or, uh, bull's eye live 209 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,640 S1: on target living or something like that. And that's been 210 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,210 S1: part of the struggle that I have had. It's like 211 00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:46,970 S1: you define your life as if I can be right 212 00:12:46,970 --> 00:12:49,250 S1: about something. If I can be right about this, it 213 00:12:49,250 --> 00:12:52,090 S1: could be about the Bible, about this scripture. And how 214 00:12:52,090 --> 00:12:56,090 S1: does it fit in with the the canon and and 215 00:12:56,090 --> 00:13:00,690 S1: rightly dividing God's word. Or it can be this choice 216 00:13:00,690 --> 00:13:02,410 S1: that I make in my life. And that's one of 217 00:13:02,410 --> 00:13:04,170 S1: the virtues that you talk about. And I want to 218 00:13:04,170 --> 00:13:08,410 S1: go to first, which is prudence. You say, we will consider. 219 00:13:08,410 --> 00:13:10,929 S1: How do you choose what to do with your life 220 00:13:10,929 --> 00:13:16,050 S1: when surrounded by endless options and pressured with the obligation 221 00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:19,050 S1: to change the world? As we'll see, the answer is 222 00:13:19,050 --> 00:13:22,010 S1: not to find the one true career, or to wait 223 00:13:22,010 --> 00:13:25,650 S1: patiently for God to give you some special revelation, but 224 00:13:25,650 --> 00:13:30,250 S1: to choose something, something honoring to God and for the 225 00:13:30,250 --> 00:13:35,330 S1: common good of your community. And then do it. Talk 226 00:13:35,370 --> 00:13:36,570 S1: about prudence. 227 00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:42,770 S2: Yeah. So prudence is the virtue of practical wisdom. So 228 00:13:42,770 --> 00:13:46,290 S2: it could be anything from the choice to buy a sofa, 229 00:13:46,570 --> 00:13:49,970 S2: or the choice to choose a major in college, or 230 00:13:49,970 --> 00:13:52,730 S2: the choice to marry someone, or the choice to become 231 00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:56,730 S2: an elder or a deacon, or the choice to vote 232 00:13:56,730 --> 00:14:01,970 S2: for somebody, or we make prudent decisions, in fact, all 233 00:14:01,970 --> 00:14:05,130 S2: day long, every day of our lives. So we should 234 00:14:05,130 --> 00:14:10,330 S2: be exercising the virtue of prudence constantly. Um, we are, 235 00:14:10,330 --> 00:14:13,330 S2: we are making choices all the time. The question is, 236 00:14:13,330 --> 00:14:17,650 S2: are we making prudent choices? And so the way I 237 00:14:17,650 --> 00:14:20,850 S2: work through prudence in the book is I go through 238 00:14:20,850 --> 00:14:24,530 S2: several steps. Um, I think a prudent choice is one 239 00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:28,610 S2: where you survey reality accurately, which is a difficult thing 240 00:14:28,650 --> 00:14:32,410 S2: to do because we very often are held back by 241 00:14:32,410 --> 00:14:36,890 S2: our own biases, by our pride, by the way, the 242 00:14:36,890 --> 00:14:41,060 S2: media or the world alters things so we don't see 243 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:45,220 S2: reality rightly. And so we really need to pray for humility, 244 00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:48,100 S2: to see reality as it really is, to see the 245 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:51,020 S2: situation as it really is. And then we need to 246 00:14:51,060 --> 00:14:54,340 S2: see the good. So what is the good in this situation? 247 00:14:54,340 --> 00:14:58,660 S2: How can I glorify God in this situation? And then third, 248 00:14:58,660 --> 00:15:02,180 S2: we need to seek deliberation. And that could involve bringing 249 00:15:02,180 --> 00:15:05,140 S2: in other people to get their wise counsel. And then 250 00:15:05,140 --> 00:15:08,380 S2: we need to make a judgment and act. We need 251 00:15:08,380 --> 00:15:10,540 S2: to decide to do something. And as I said, as 252 00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:13,500 S2: you mentioned, you need to in that passage, you need 253 00:15:13,540 --> 00:15:16,980 S2: to do something, make a resolute decision and follow through 254 00:15:17,020 --> 00:15:17,500 S2: with it. 255 00:15:18,620 --> 00:15:20,780 S1: And you say, maybe it only works for a time 256 00:15:20,780 --> 00:15:22,940 S1: and you end up doing something else next year or 257 00:15:22,980 --> 00:15:26,580 S1: next month. But when you're faithful to do something good, 258 00:15:26,940 --> 00:15:31,220 S1: rather than anxiously trying to do the one right thing, 259 00:15:31,860 --> 00:15:35,979 S1: you will find peace. And more importantly, you will honor God. 260 00:15:35,980 --> 00:15:40,790 S1: So there's another concept in here of choice Paralysis. Why 261 00:15:40,790 --> 00:15:44,910 S1: is that important to to know so often? 262 00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:48,550 S2: So often in working with young people, what I've found 263 00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:52,310 S2: is that and not just young people, but we are given. 264 00:15:52,510 --> 00:15:56,230 S2: The more choices you are given, the more likely you 265 00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:58,350 S2: are to freeze up. I spoke to one person who 266 00:15:58,350 --> 00:16:01,150 S2: said I went to buy a toothbrush and it was 267 00:16:01,150 --> 00:16:04,670 S2: just a wall of toothbrushes and and I just wanted 268 00:16:04,670 --> 00:16:07,190 S2: to buy one toothbrush, but I couldn't because there were 269 00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:09,910 S2: so many toothbrushes and I wanted to write, buy the 270 00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:12,350 S2: one moral toothbrush. And it was like, one's good for 271 00:16:12,350 --> 00:16:15,310 S2: the environment. One's good for my teeth. One my dentist recommends, 272 00:16:15,310 --> 00:16:16,710 S2: and I don't know which one to buy, so I 273 00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:20,070 S2: can't buy any. Right. Well, now imagine that. Except it's 274 00:16:20,070 --> 00:16:24,470 S2: existential questions like if I don't choose the right career, 275 00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:29,470 S2: my life, my life could be unworthy. And that's how 276 00:16:29,470 --> 00:16:32,230 S2: a lot of young people feel. That's how a lot 277 00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:35,590 S2: of people feel. If I don't marry the right person, 278 00:16:35,630 --> 00:16:39,710 S2: my life could be unworthy or meaningless. That's how a 279 00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:42,550 S2: lot of people think. And so they freeze up. They 280 00:16:42,550 --> 00:16:46,550 S2: have choice paralysis. And so what I want to break 281 00:16:46,550 --> 00:16:52,390 S2: down is this illusion, this myth that your choices, I 282 00:16:52,430 --> 00:16:55,190 S2: want to I want to acknowledge that choices are important 283 00:16:55,190 --> 00:16:57,870 S2: and choices matter. But I want to break down this 284 00:16:57,870 --> 00:17:02,550 S2: myth that there's this one right choice, that if you 285 00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:09,310 S2: don't choose rightly, then God is going to condemn you. And, um, 286 00:17:09,350 --> 00:17:12,310 S2: you know, when it comes to careers or, or, or 287 00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:17,350 S2: even spouses, you know, uh, there's this idea that many 288 00:17:17,350 --> 00:17:19,590 S2: people have that if they don't marry the one person 289 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:22,830 S2: that's perfect for them, then they're going to be, yeah, 290 00:17:22,830 --> 00:17:25,350 S2: their soulmate, they're going to be doomed for life. And 291 00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:27,790 S2: I want to say there's probably a lot of good 292 00:17:27,790 --> 00:17:30,590 S2: people that you could marry, and your task is to 293 00:17:30,630 --> 00:17:32,910 S2: find the person that you're going to marry and be 294 00:17:32,910 --> 00:17:36,469 S2: committed to them for life. And that's okay. And you 295 00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:39,520 S2: need to be content with that. Um, and you may 296 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,480 S2: run across somebody who's a better fit later in life 297 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,680 S2: and you're going to have to say, nope, I already 298 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,000 S2: made my commitment. And that's, that's good. 299 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,879 S1: I like it. I like the way that you laid 300 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,560 S1: that out in the, in the prudence chapter. So let 301 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,560 S1: me back up and get you because there are there 302 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:04,480 S1: are four of these virtues that are main virtue primary 303 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,320 S1: and then three that are theological. So walk. Walk us 304 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,880 S1: through what the seven are and then we'll keep on going. Okay. 305 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:17,640 S2: Yeah. So there are four cardinal virtues and that's prudence, justice, 306 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:24,800 S2: fortitude or courage. And then there's temperance, which is sometimes 307 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:30,040 S2: called moderation or self-control. And then the theological virtues which 308 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:35,120 S2: Paul talks about faith, hope and love. And so we've 309 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:37,170 S2: talked a little bit about prudence. So we know what 310 00:18:37,170 --> 00:18:40,410 S2: that is. That's making wise choices. And that's a foundational 311 00:18:40,609 --> 00:18:44,810 S2: virtue for all the other virtues. Uh, justice is giving 312 00:18:44,810 --> 00:18:48,810 S2: someone their due. And that includes giving God his due 313 00:18:48,810 --> 00:18:54,410 S2: by worshiping him. And then courage, uh, short definition of 314 00:18:54,450 --> 00:18:57,570 S2: that is enduring suffering for the sake of the good. 315 00:18:58,090 --> 00:19:01,369 S2: So whatever the good is in a situation, you're risking 316 00:19:01,369 --> 00:19:05,770 S2: suffering for that sake. Um, and then temperance is rightly 317 00:19:05,770 --> 00:19:11,770 S2: ordering your life for towards God and His and loving him. 318 00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:15,250 S2: And then we have the theological virtues. 319 00:19:16,050 --> 00:19:19,330 S1: Faith, hope and love. Okay, so this sounded when I, 320 00:19:19,369 --> 00:19:22,770 S1: as I first got into it, it sounded to me 321 00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:27,290 S1: a little higher church than I am a little Catholic 322 00:19:27,290 --> 00:19:30,050 S1: to me. And there's a reason for that, isn't there? 323 00:19:31,010 --> 00:19:34,930 S2: Yeah. So I'm working, you know, this tradition. I mean, 324 00:19:35,050 --> 00:19:38,210 S2: you could say higher church. Um, you could also even 325 00:19:38,250 --> 00:19:42,530 S2: say classical as in classical literature. Uh, because a lot 326 00:19:42,530 --> 00:19:48,170 S2: of these, those four cardinal virtues come from Aristotle and, um, 327 00:19:48,930 --> 00:19:54,129 S2: you know, Greek and then later Roman sources, um, and 328 00:19:54,130 --> 00:19:59,090 S2: the early church fathers accepted this. Um, I'm getting a 329 00:19:59,090 --> 00:20:04,209 S2: lot of these from Aquinas. Thomas Aquinas, this medieval theologian 330 00:20:04,210 --> 00:20:09,210 S2: and philosopher who said that these virtues were valuable for 331 00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:14,170 S2: the church. Augustine also saw value in these virtues. He 332 00:20:14,170 --> 00:20:17,410 S2: talked about them quite a lot. Um, so they're part 333 00:20:17,410 --> 00:20:23,530 S2: of the early church tradition. But I'd also note that Calvin, uh, 334 00:20:23,530 --> 00:20:27,610 S2: the reformer, he saw these virtues as valuable as well. 335 00:20:27,810 --> 00:20:33,619 S2: And so it's, um, it's, it's part of a broader 336 00:20:33,619 --> 00:20:38,340 S2: church tradition that we've kind of let go now. In 337 00:20:38,340 --> 00:20:41,780 S2: the book, the main voice that's helping me write and 338 00:20:41,780 --> 00:20:46,859 S2: think about virtues is a Catholic philosopher named Josef Pieper. Um, 339 00:20:47,180 --> 00:20:50,180 S2: and so there are things that I have to do as, 340 00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:53,820 S2: as somebody who's, who's Presbyterian himself that I have to 341 00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:56,659 S2: do to, um, to modify, there are some things I 342 00:20:56,700 --> 00:20:59,820 S2: disagree and I disagree explicitly in the book where I 343 00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:02,660 S2: say as a as a Protestant, I can't agree with 344 00:21:02,660 --> 00:21:06,540 S2: his definition of, of hope in this way. Um, and 345 00:21:06,540 --> 00:21:09,220 S2: that's what scholarship is about is, you know, you taking 346 00:21:09,220 --> 00:21:11,659 S2: arguments and, and making adjustments. 347 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:15,340 S1: Yes. And it's very helpful to be able to see 348 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:19,260 S1: how you process his thoughts and then going back to 349 00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:22,940 S1: antiquity and looking at that. But I found it a 350 00:21:22,940 --> 00:21:27,980 S1: very helpful conversation as I'm going through, as I'm reading 351 00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:31,590 S1: it about these things and how they were looked at 352 00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:35,830 S1: how these virtues were looked at in ages past and 353 00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:38,590 S1: how they are looked at now in the age of AI. 354 00:21:38,910 --> 00:21:42,869 S1: In the. We're doing a program tomorrow about Generation Alpha 355 00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:48,470 S1: that has grown up with nothing but screens and technology 356 00:21:48,470 --> 00:21:52,510 S1: all around them. They're just awash in it. And how 357 00:21:52,510 --> 00:21:55,709 S1: do you reach them with the gospel when this is 358 00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:58,909 S1: all that they've known? It's very different than where you 359 00:21:58,910 --> 00:22:01,750 S1: and I grew up. Uh, I think you're not quite 360 00:22:01,750 --> 00:22:05,230 S1: as far down the track as I am, but it 361 00:22:05,230 --> 00:22:08,670 S1: was a different world. And so that's what I want 362 00:22:08,670 --> 00:22:13,750 S1: you to to help us do today. None of these virtues, uh, 363 00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:16,670 S1: we can't isolate them and say, okay, today I'm going 364 00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:18,710 S1: to work on prudence. I'm going to work on prudence 365 00:22:18,710 --> 00:22:20,909 S1: in the month of June, and then I'll come to 366 00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:24,990 S1: justice and I'll do that in July. These work hand 367 00:22:25,030 --> 00:22:28,030 S1: in hand simultaneously, right? 368 00:22:28,750 --> 00:22:31,430 S2: Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned that because in our 369 00:22:31,430 --> 00:22:36,470 S2: country's history, Benjamin Franklin decided to do exactly that. He famously, 370 00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:40,390 S2: in his autobiography, talks about trying to work on prudence 371 00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:45,110 S2: or each of the virtues one by one, and tried to, um, 372 00:22:45,150 --> 00:22:47,750 S2: master them one by one. And he discovered that he 373 00:22:47,750 --> 00:22:50,030 S2: could not do it that way. Um, so it's funny 374 00:22:50,030 --> 00:22:52,950 S2: that you should mention that, but um, but because you're right, 375 00:22:52,950 --> 00:22:57,470 S2: you're right. They actually they interlock in fact. Um, so 376 00:22:57,470 --> 00:23:01,550 S2: for example, you need prudence to know how to be just, um, 377 00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:07,030 S2: if you don't have prudence, you can't make good judgments, um, 378 00:23:07,070 --> 00:23:11,470 S2: or courage. For example, I said that courage was um 379 00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:15,950 S2: enduring suffering or risking suffering for the sake of the good. Well, 380 00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:19,990 S2: if you don't have prudence, you don't know what things 381 00:23:19,990 --> 00:23:22,950 S2: are worth risking for the sake of the good. And 382 00:23:22,950 --> 00:23:26,750 S2: then you can make instead of courageous acts, you can 383 00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:31,280 S2: do risk, uh, Acts so you can. Instead of knowing 384 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,639 S2: which building burning building to run into, you can run 385 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,680 S2: into burning sheds that you don't need to save anyone in, 386 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,200 S2: and you're just being reckless. So all the virtues are 387 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:45,680 S2: blended together. You need love for all of the virtues. Mhm. 388 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,880 S2: So it's, it was a difficult thing writing this book 389 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,640 S2: because I had to write it in an order, but really, 390 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,240 S2: they all worked together. If I could have written them 391 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,880 S2: in a spiral, I would have written them in a spiral. 392 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,679 S1: But the bottom line then the reason why I mentioned 393 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,879 S1: the Catholic writers that you have based this on and 394 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,879 S1: brought from many people in our audience, will look at 395 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,160 S1: the Catholic Church and teaching as more of a works based. 396 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,600 S1: I do this in order to get God's favor. And I, 397 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,720 S1: you know, toe the line on this and that and 398 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,480 S1: the other thing, and then I'm okay, or I think 399 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,369 S1: I might be okay. Um, but what you're doing is 400 00:24:27,730 --> 00:24:31,250 S1: you're pushing back against that in Catholicism as well as 401 00:24:31,250 --> 00:24:33,810 S1: in the Protestant church, because we've got it. I have 402 00:24:33,810 --> 00:24:36,570 S1: this struggle, you know, feeling like God's going to bang 403 00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:38,570 S1: me over the head if I do something wrong. I 404 00:24:38,609 --> 00:24:40,210 S1: got to make the right choice. Well, I'll have to 405 00:24:40,210 --> 00:24:42,890 S1: do the wrong thing. We have to deal with that, too. 406 00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:45,370 S1: I've got about a minute left here before the break. 407 00:24:45,410 --> 00:24:46,410 S1: Tell me what you think. 408 00:24:47,490 --> 00:24:49,690 S2: Yeah. So the way I frame this in in the book, 409 00:24:49,690 --> 00:24:53,090 S2: very explicitly, is that the reason we pursue these virtues 410 00:24:53,090 --> 00:24:58,010 S2: is not to earn God's favor or any merit. That 411 00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:02,490 S2: is not what we are doing. We are righteous because 412 00:25:02,490 --> 00:25:06,250 S2: of what Christ has done, his finished work on the cross, 413 00:25:06,250 --> 00:25:08,970 S2: and because of his finished work on the cross, which 414 00:25:08,970 --> 00:25:13,810 S2: justifies us. We are free to walk in a manner 415 00:25:13,810 --> 00:25:17,330 S2: worthy of the gospel. Ephesians 210 says, for we are 416 00:25:17,369 --> 00:25:21,090 S2: God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, 417 00:25:21,090 --> 00:25:24,330 S2: which God prepared in advance for us to do. And 418 00:25:24,330 --> 00:25:28,010 S2: that's what these virtues are. their God's handiwork for us 419 00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:30,810 S2: to do. Right? And that's what this is about. 420 00:25:31,490 --> 00:25:34,969 S1: To live well. But Doctor Alan Noble is our featured 421 00:25:34,970 --> 00:25:41,090 S1: resource at Chris Fabry live.org. Chris Fabry, Livorno. If you 422 00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:45,090 S1: are living with the thought you aren't good enough, buy 423 00:25:45,090 --> 00:25:47,210 S1: stuff and work harder. You have to hear what we're 424 00:25:47,210 --> 00:25:49,450 S1: going to talk about with Doctor Noble straight ahead. This 425 00:25:49,450 --> 00:26:05,290 S1: Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. Doctor Alan Noble is 426 00:26:05,290 --> 00:26:07,730 S1: with us today at the Radio Backyard Fence. I love 427 00:26:07,730 --> 00:26:11,410 S1: talking with him. He has these ideas that allow me 428 00:26:11,410 --> 00:26:15,729 S1: to to enter into his way of thinking and to 429 00:26:15,770 --> 00:26:19,010 S1: think more deeply. And I always like it when he 430 00:26:19,010 --> 00:26:21,889 S1: comes along. If you go to Chris Fabry live.org, you'll 431 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:25,980 S1: see the new book To Live Well, it's our featured 432 00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:29,460 S1: resource at Chris Fabry live.org. And now we're going to 433 00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:32,260 S1: get to T.S. Eliot. Near the beginning of T.S. Eliot's 434 00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:36,220 S1: The Waste Land, he diagnoses the problem, telling the reader, 435 00:26:36,580 --> 00:26:42,060 S1: you know, only a heap of broken images. Although Eliot 436 00:26:42,060 --> 00:26:45,100 S1: didn't have TV or social media in mind, our lives 437 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:48,820 S1: are made up of broken images, billions of broken images 438 00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:52,620 S1: that don't fit together into a coherent whole. Except maybe 439 00:26:52,619 --> 00:26:57,740 S1: one loud message that says you aren't good enough, buy 440 00:26:57,780 --> 00:27:03,179 S1: stuff and work harder. Why is that an important concept 441 00:27:03,180 --> 00:27:05,340 S1: for us to understand, Alan? 442 00:27:06,619 --> 00:27:09,980 S2: Well, as we talked about at the top of the hour, 443 00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:13,260 S2: I think that the experience that most of us have 444 00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:18,899 S2: is this cacophony of voices telling us different things, whether 445 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:24,790 S2: it's tick tock gurus or YouTube, you know, influencers or 446 00:27:25,630 --> 00:27:32,590 S2: ads on television or, you know, Instagram or billboards or 447 00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:37,189 S2: whatever it might be. There's just voices telling us how 448 00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:41,870 S2: we ought to live. And they're fragmented images. That's the 449 00:27:41,869 --> 00:27:43,990 S2: key that I want to get across with this, this 450 00:27:44,030 --> 00:27:48,190 S2: image from T.S. Eliot. They're fragmented images that don't form 451 00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:54,270 S2: a coherent whole. And as I talk about in in 452 00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:57,750 S2: the book, what I like to imagine is that T.S. 453 00:27:57,750 --> 00:28:02,310 S2: Eliot's heap of broken images might have originally been, uh, 454 00:28:02,350 --> 00:28:05,430 S2: an image from a cathedral, a stained glass window. And 455 00:28:05,430 --> 00:28:09,950 S2: maybe it was an image of of the virgin and Child, 456 00:28:09,950 --> 00:28:12,149 S2: or maybe it was an image of the cross. Or maybe, 457 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:14,629 S2: you know, it could have been anything from any biblical, 458 00:28:14,670 --> 00:28:18,110 S2: you know, scene, but it was probably, I imagine it 459 00:28:18,109 --> 00:28:21,910 S2: was something from a cathedral and, and, and now it's 460 00:28:21,910 --> 00:28:27,830 S2: been shattered. And, um, what that's that's the state of 461 00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:34,750 S2: Western civilization right now is that the Christian coherent message 462 00:28:34,750 --> 00:28:37,830 S2: has been fragmented. And what we're left with are little 463 00:28:37,869 --> 00:28:43,350 S2: bits of truth and lots of nonsense sprinkled in. And 464 00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:46,230 S2: now it's it's difficult for us to pick up those 465 00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:49,229 S2: pieces and make sense. And so what I'm trying to 466 00:28:49,230 --> 00:28:52,750 S2: do in this book is, is go back and try 467 00:28:52,750 --> 00:28:55,070 S2: to pick up the fragments and put together a whole 468 00:28:55,070 --> 00:29:00,470 S2: picture that makes sense. Um, by returning to these, these virtues, 469 00:29:00,470 --> 00:29:04,350 S2: by returning to what the church is, um, uh, by 470 00:29:04,670 --> 00:29:08,950 S2: early church fathers, by Calvin, by reformers, but by people 471 00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:12,150 S2: have taught by what is in the Bible. Because, you know, 472 00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:14,550 S2: when I talk about virtues, prudence is in the Bible. 473 00:29:14,550 --> 00:29:16,630 S2: Justice is in the Bible. Faith, hope, love is in 474 00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:19,430 S2: the Bible. Self-Control is in the Bible. Right? So these 475 00:29:19,430 --> 00:29:23,200 S2: are biblical truths as well. Um, and so that's part 476 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,040 S2: of what I'm grasping at here. 477 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,600 S1: And one of the most difficult things for younger people 478 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,480 S1: is what you've determined courage here today. And is fortitude 479 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,240 S1: as I've read through it. And that is to be 480 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,520 S1: able to persevere, to be able to endure for the 481 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:47,800 S1: moment what is hard. And when you have life hacks, 482 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,600 S1: when you have people telling you, just do this and 483 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,680 S1: it'll save you all these steps. You know, here's the shortcut. 484 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,520 S1: This is the way to do it. And we all, 485 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,280 S1: we all love it. But I love shortcuts. But if 486 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,160 S1: that's what you put at the top of your priority 487 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:08,800 S1: list the easiest way, then you don't, um, exercise the 488 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,600 S1: muscle of fortitude or of courage. Talk about that in 489 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:13,880 S1: the younger generation. 490 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,000 S2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there are so many things that 491 00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,450 S2: the younger generation is facing as an uphill battle, and I. 492 00:30:21,930 --> 00:30:24,490 S2: What I want to preface this by saying is that 493 00:30:24,810 --> 00:30:29,890 S2: I don't I don't say this as blaming this generation, 494 00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:33,490 S2: but how I want to frame this is this is 495 00:30:33,490 --> 00:30:36,450 S2: how we have. This is what we have given them. 496 00:30:36,850 --> 00:30:39,370 S2: And they are doing their best. And we have not 497 00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:44,890 S2: given them the opportunities, as you said, to exercise that muscle, 498 00:30:45,690 --> 00:30:49,370 S2: we could point to things like, you know, the the 499 00:30:49,770 --> 00:30:53,690 S2: Covid lockdown of schools, which however you think about that politically, 500 00:30:53,890 --> 00:30:58,690 S2: just the, the so many schools, I'm not not all schools, 501 00:30:58,690 --> 00:31:01,410 S2: but so many schools. I've heard so many stories of 502 00:31:01,410 --> 00:31:06,570 S2: students who just were not challenged when schools shut down. Um, 503 00:31:06,570 --> 00:31:10,770 S2: their schoolwork was just not challenging. Um, teachers just passed 504 00:31:10,770 --> 00:31:14,690 S2: them through classes didn't require them to do work because 505 00:31:14,690 --> 00:31:18,170 S2: the teachers didn't, you know, the teachers were just doing 506 00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:20,850 S2: their best. Everyone was just doing their best. But but 507 00:31:20,850 --> 00:31:25,050 S2: just practically speaking, even if everyone was just doing their best, 508 00:31:25,290 --> 00:31:28,170 S2: the reality is there was a chunk of time where 509 00:31:28,210 --> 00:31:32,530 S2: young people were not challenged, were not exercising their muscle 510 00:31:32,530 --> 00:31:37,210 S2: of courage. Right. To, to, to face something hard to 511 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:42,050 S2: suffer and to endure that suffering, whether it's math homework 512 00:31:42,050 --> 00:31:44,130 S2: or whether it's speaking in front of a class or 513 00:31:44,130 --> 00:31:47,250 S2: whether it's making a new friend or whatever it is. 514 00:31:47,570 --> 00:31:50,530 S2: And to overcome for the sake of the good, for 515 00:31:50,530 --> 00:31:53,650 S2: the sake of a, of learning a subject or making 516 00:31:53,650 --> 00:31:57,530 S2: a friend or, or doing the right thing, whatever it 517 00:31:57,530 --> 00:32:01,250 S2: might be. And then there are some other points of 518 00:32:01,250 --> 00:32:03,530 S2: reference that I that I would point to. One is 519 00:32:03,530 --> 00:32:07,290 S2: that we have declining rates of, of dating among young people. 520 00:32:07,570 --> 00:32:09,969 S2: Young people are just not dating at the same rate anymore. 521 00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:13,490 S2: They're not socializing at the same rate anymore. They're delaying 522 00:32:13,490 --> 00:32:18,740 S2: getting their driver's license. Um, compared to previous generations. And 523 00:32:18,740 --> 00:32:22,380 S2: all of these, I think are symptoms of of that, 524 00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:29,660 S2: that courage muscle not being grown. Um, there's a lot 525 00:32:29,660 --> 00:32:34,740 S2: of inhibition in this, in this generation. And so what 526 00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:37,500 S2: I would, what I would say is that I would 527 00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:42,380 S2: want to invite young people into courage. Invite them into 528 00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:44,220 S2: courage for the sake of the good. 529 00:32:46,940 --> 00:32:50,660 S1: Just sparked to me as you were talking, the the 530 00:32:50,660 --> 00:32:53,180 S1: deconstruction that you mentioned a little earlier and you do 531 00:32:53,540 --> 00:32:56,340 S1: deal with it in the book. So much of the 532 00:32:56,340 --> 00:33:01,780 S1: deconstruction to me seems to come about because of the 533 00:33:01,940 --> 00:33:06,780 S1: hardness of life or what what people sign up for 534 00:33:06,780 --> 00:33:11,300 S1: when they sign up for, uh, Christianity and it becomes 535 00:33:11,300 --> 00:33:14,380 S1: different than what they signed up for. Meaning God is 536 00:33:14,380 --> 00:33:17,110 S1: supposed to make my life easier. God is supposed to 537 00:33:17,110 --> 00:33:19,790 S1: give me, you know, if I do this for him, 538 00:33:19,790 --> 00:33:22,190 S1: it's kind of transactional. If I do this and I 539 00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:25,590 S1: believe these things and I believe them with all my heart, 540 00:33:25,590 --> 00:33:29,790 S1: and I follow you, then here's what you do for me. And, 541 00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:32,830 S1: you know, job had the same struggle. He looked at 542 00:33:32,830 --> 00:33:35,030 S1: what was going on and the boils that were coming 543 00:33:35,030 --> 00:33:37,750 S1: up and his wife curse God and die, you know, 544 00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:44,990 S1: all those things. And and he maintained his hold on God. 545 00:33:44,990 --> 00:33:48,430 S1: Not that it was all about his maintaining it, but 546 00:33:48,430 --> 00:33:53,670 S1: he he muscled through that with great courage and great faith, 547 00:33:53,990 --> 00:33:57,910 S1: that even though he slay me, yet will I trust him. 548 00:33:58,270 --> 00:34:01,790 S1: So is that part of what the. The whole deconstruction. 549 00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:03,110 S1: Do you see it the same way? 550 00:34:04,710 --> 00:34:08,350 S2: I think for some people it can be. Um, I 551 00:34:08,350 --> 00:34:15,310 S2: think if you face a deep, profound loss, a profound challenge, 552 00:34:15,350 --> 00:34:22,830 S2: a profound moment of of hurt. Then it can be 553 00:34:22,830 --> 00:34:26,310 S2: a moment where you doubt your faith. I think if 554 00:34:26,350 --> 00:34:30,710 S2: you are asked to put to death a certain sin 555 00:34:31,670 --> 00:34:34,430 S2: and it feels very close to you, it feels closer 556 00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:37,509 S2: than your skin and it feels like something you have 557 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:42,509 S2: a right to. Then it can feel like this is wrong. 558 00:34:42,670 --> 00:34:47,030 S2: I shouldn't have to turn from this sin. And, um, 559 00:34:47,230 --> 00:34:50,910 S2: it can feel wrong in that sense. And it takes 560 00:34:50,910 --> 00:34:54,070 S2: courage and hope for you to realize that it's actually 561 00:34:54,070 --> 00:34:57,830 S2: for your good and God's glory that you turn from 562 00:34:57,830 --> 00:35:02,629 S2: this sin. Um, and so these are, these are good 563 00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:07,670 S2: reasons why, um, and these are examples of why various 564 00:35:07,670 --> 00:35:13,320 S2: virtues work together. Faith works here with courage. Um, and 565 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:18,000 S2: the key here again would be that we face these, these, 566 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,359 S2: these moments of suffering or the risk of suffering for 567 00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:24,560 S2: the sake of the good. And so when you're in 568 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,719 S2: this moment, what you want to do is you want 569 00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,960 S2: to identify what the good is. So if you are 570 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,840 S2: going through a moment of trial, fix your eyes on Jesus. 571 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,880 S2: Fix your eyes on what he has done for you 572 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,760 S2: and his love for you. If he is asking you 573 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,080 S2: to turn from sin, he is. And he is always 574 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160 S2: asking you to turn from sin. But if there's some 575 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,359 S2: particular sin in your life that you are struggling to 576 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,880 S2: give up, and you feel like it's unjust, that you 577 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,640 S2: should have to give that up, I would say look 578 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,480 S2: at look to Jesus and recognize his love for you 579 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,360 S2: and his care for you, and how he would never 580 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:06,000 S2: ask you to give up something if it wasn't just, 581 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,200 S2: and if it wasn't loving, and if it wasn't for 582 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:14,850 S2: your good and. let that carry you through. The suffering, 583 00:36:14,850 --> 00:36:18,770 S2: the difficulty, the struggle of turning from sin because it 584 00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:22,370 S2: will be enough. He will give you the strength to persevere. 585 00:36:22,850 --> 00:36:26,569 S2: And it's that that's the process of courage, is identifying 586 00:36:26,610 --> 00:36:29,890 S2: what the good is and allowing that good to carry 587 00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:35,930 S2: you through. Carry you through. Persevere through. Endure the suffering. 588 00:36:37,010 --> 00:36:39,970 S1: And that's where I think one of the questions I 589 00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:42,089 S1: knew I wanted to ask you before we end here 590 00:36:42,090 --> 00:36:46,490 S1: today is where trust comes in. Because I think trust 591 00:36:46,489 --> 00:36:48,969 S1: is exhibited in all of the virtues that we've talked 592 00:36:48,969 --> 00:36:52,569 S1: about here. It's kind of the basic building block of 593 00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:57,169 S1: pursuing a virtue of trusting that God exists, that God 594 00:36:57,170 --> 00:37:00,370 S1: has a plan that God knows more than I do. 595 00:37:00,410 --> 00:37:03,130 S1: You know his plan is better than my plan, but 596 00:37:03,130 --> 00:37:08,130 S1: also that God's plan is good and he has his 597 00:37:08,130 --> 00:37:12,049 S1: glory and my good in mind. So I want to 598 00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:15,010 S1: deal with that in our final segment with Alan Noble. 599 00:37:15,010 --> 00:37:18,770 S1: If you go to the website chris.org, you'll see our 600 00:37:18,770 --> 00:37:23,450 S1: featured resource today to live well, practical wisdom for moving 601 00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:28,650 S1: through chaotic times. Just go to Chris Fabry dot ORG. 602 00:37:28,810 --> 00:37:31,850 S1: Our remaining moments coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio. 603 00:37:43,450 --> 00:37:46,090 S1: One of the virtues we're talking about today is justice, 604 00:37:46,090 --> 00:37:48,489 S1: and that was exhibited in the life of a man 605 00:37:48,489 --> 00:37:52,250 S1: named John Perkins. And if you're just joining us and 606 00:37:52,250 --> 00:37:56,970 S1: didn't hear his book, One Blood is our. Thank you. 607 00:37:56,969 --> 00:37:59,729 S1: If you support this program with a gift of any 608 00:37:59,730 --> 00:38:02,569 S1: size right now during June, parting words to the Church 609 00:38:02,610 --> 00:38:06,609 S1: on Race and Love, One Blood by Doctor Perkins is our. 610 00:38:06,610 --> 00:38:10,739 S1: Thank you. Go to Chris Fabry Dot org. Chris fabry.org. 611 00:38:11,940 --> 00:38:15,380 S1: Or you can call us at 866.95. Fabry, thanks for 612 00:38:15,380 --> 00:38:18,299 S1: your support of the Radio Backyard Fence. We're talking with 613 00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:22,460 S1: Doctor Alan Noble. To Live Well is our featured resource 614 00:38:22,460 --> 00:38:25,700 S1: for today's broadcast. And I want to talk about trust 615 00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:28,140 S1: here because I was thinking this morning when I got up, 616 00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:30,299 S1: I thought, why are you getting up? Are you getting 617 00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:32,900 S1: out of bed? Why do I roll out of bed 618 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:37,260 S1: each day? And I thought, well, because deep in my soul, 619 00:38:37,260 --> 00:38:42,380 S1: I believe God has prepared good things for me to do. Um. His. 620 00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:46,779 S1: I am his handiwork. He's created me in Christ Jesus 621 00:38:46,780 --> 00:38:50,580 S1: to do good works, which he prepared in advance for 622 00:38:50,580 --> 00:38:53,460 S1: me to do. And maybe today I'll get to do 623 00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:56,219 S1: one of those things, you know? But how I host 624 00:38:56,219 --> 00:39:00,379 S1: the program, how I love my neighbor. Um, and so 625 00:39:00,380 --> 00:39:03,620 S1: that's why I wanted to ask Doctor Noble how, where 626 00:39:03,660 --> 00:39:07,030 S1: trust comes in, because you have to have a rock 627 00:39:07,030 --> 00:39:12,590 S1: ribbed trust that God really is. He really did create 628 00:39:12,590 --> 00:39:15,230 S1: me in Christ Jesus to do these good works that 629 00:39:15,230 --> 00:39:17,870 S1: he prepared in advance for me to do. Right. 630 00:39:18,670 --> 00:39:23,550 S2: Absolutely, absolutely. And, and I think where trust comes in 631 00:39:23,590 --> 00:39:26,989 S2: is under the virtue of, of faith, of, of faith 632 00:39:27,950 --> 00:39:33,469 S2: and faith for Pieper and for, for me and for 633 00:39:33,469 --> 00:39:39,149 S2: many other people is, is not faith in some abstract sense. 634 00:39:39,150 --> 00:39:42,430 S2: So sometimes when we think about faith, I think, um, 635 00:39:42,910 --> 00:39:50,830 S2: we think about faith as some abstract assent to a 636 00:39:51,590 --> 00:39:56,590 S2: set of, of doctrines and doctrine is highly important. Don't, 637 00:39:56,590 --> 00:40:02,070 S2: don't hear me saying anything otherwise, but faith is more 638 00:40:02,110 --> 00:40:05,990 S2: than that. It includes doctrine. It includes understandings that are 639 00:40:06,030 --> 00:40:10,509 S2: that are doctrinal, but it's actually faith in someone. It's 640 00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:13,910 S2: actually faith in someone. It's actually faith in a person. 641 00:40:14,510 --> 00:40:16,990 S2: It's actually faith in a person. You can't have faith 642 00:40:16,989 --> 00:40:21,549 S2: in some abstract set of, of, of, of rules, for example, 643 00:40:22,030 --> 00:40:26,390 S2: but a faith in a person. And so we have 644 00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:30,670 S2: faith in Jesus Christ and Him risen from the dead. 645 00:40:31,230 --> 00:40:34,750 S2: And what he has promised for us and what he 646 00:40:34,750 --> 00:40:37,549 S2: has done for us and what he has done for 647 00:40:37,550 --> 00:40:40,310 S2: us on the cross and what he's promised to do 648 00:40:40,310 --> 00:40:46,830 S2: for us. And that radically changes things. Um, if he, 649 00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:50,550 S2: you know, you know, if he rose from the dead, 650 00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:53,670 S2: that that changes everything. And he did rise from the dead. 651 00:40:54,070 --> 00:41:00,790 S2: And so that's, um, that's where our trust comes from. Um, 652 00:41:00,830 --> 00:41:03,870 S2: I believe is that we can have this radical faith 653 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,560 S2: in in Jesus Christ and what he has said in 654 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,279 S2: his person. And, um, that gives me hope for tomorrow. 655 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:16,720 S2: That gives me hope for my children, my, my family, and, um, 656 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,560 S2: hope to, to act in this world. 657 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,200 S3: How do I. 658 00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,440 S1: Know I'm living well? Do you have a test in 659 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,320 S1: the back of the book? 660 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,960 S2: Yeah. There's a 50 question test that will, um, that's, 661 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,400 S2: I should, I should have written that kind of book. 662 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,040 S2: I'm sure it would have done very well. Probably a 663 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,759 S2: lot better if I had written that kind of book, 664 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,399 S2: but I didn't write that kind of book. So there's 665 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,440 S2: no questionnaire at the back. Um, you know, I, I 666 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,760 S2: wrestled with this, you know, I wrestled with this a 667 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,200 S2: lot because I wrote a book on, on how to 668 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,600 S2: live well, and what I don't want people to come 669 00:41:54,600 --> 00:42:00,040 S2: away with is thinking that they need to achieve some 670 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:06,049 S2: sort of mastery in order to, to, to, to, to 671 00:42:06,090 --> 00:42:10,210 S2: feel like they've arrived, that they've come to this point 672 00:42:10,210 --> 00:42:12,450 S2: where they can step back and say, I am now 673 00:42:12,489 --> 00:42:16,370 S2: a virtuous person, and now I can rest on my 674 00:42:16,370 --> 00:42:21,410 S2: laurels and, and, um, and stop working. And that's, that's 675 00:42:21,410 --> 00:42:25,930 S2: just not it. That's, it's just not the point. Um, the, the, 676 00:42:26,090 --> 00:42:29,609 S2: the point is to strive for righteousness for, strive for 677 00:42:29,610 --> 00:42:34,489 S2: Christ likeness. You're never going to stop striving for Christ likeness. 678 00:42:34,530 --> 00:42:38,169 S2: You're never going to stop striving for love. You're never 679 00:42:38,170 --> 00:42:42,009 S2: going to stop striving for humility. Humility, for example, is 680 00:42:42,010 --> 00:42:45,530 S2: under temperance and, and, and you're never going to stop 681 00:42:45,530 --> 00:42:49,290 S2: having to strive to be humble. Speaking of T.S. Eliot, T.S. 682 00:42:49,290 --> 00:42:52,210 S2: Eliot says, the only wisdom we can hope to acquire 683 00:42:52,210 --> 00:42:56,450 S2: is the wisdom of humility. Humility is endless. And that's 684 00:42:56,450 --> 00:42:58,649 S2: that's never going to stop being true. You're always going 685 00:42:58,690 --> 00:43:02,969 S2: to have to work on humility. Um. so what do 686 00:43:02,969 --> 00:43:06,370 S2: you do with that fact? And this is a problem. Uh, 687 00:43:06,370 --> 00:43:07,969 S2: what do you do with the fact that, you know, 688 00:43:08,010 --> 00:43:10,529 S2: I've written this book about how you should strive to 689 00:43:10,530 --> 00:43:15,170 S2: be virtuous, but in the end, um, there's no check off. 690 00:43:15,210 --> 00:43:18,890 S2: There's no step that you can reach where you can say, aha, 691 00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:23,530 S2: I've achieved it. There's no weight goal. There's no finish 692 00:43:23,530 --> 00:43:29,370 S2: line except, you know, in glorification. And I think the 693 00:43:29,370 --> 00:43:35,770 S2: answer is this you strive for excellence, you strive for righteousness, 694 00:43:35,969 --> 00:43:40,090 S2: and you accept that you're going to fail, you're going 695 00:43:40,090 --> 00:43:45,930 S2: to make mistakes, you're going to make unvirtuous decisions, and 696 00:43:46,170 --> 00:43:49,930 S2: Christ is there for you. His grace is sufficient for you. 697 00:43:49,969 --> 00:43:53,250 S2: His gospel is sufficient for you, and he loves you. 698 00:43:53,930 --> 00:43:56,770 S2: And your task is to be faithful to the virtues, 699 00:43:56,969 --> 00:43:59,649 S2: to the calling upward calling of Christ that he has 700 00:43:59,650 --> 00:44:00,420 S2: given you. 701 00:44:01,739 --> 00:44:04,380 S1: So the point of this, and the point of the 702 00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:09,299 S1: conversation that we've had thus far, is to free you 703 00:44:09,340 --> 00:44:13,420 S1: up to participate in the life that God has given 704 00:44:13,420 --> 00:44:17,460 S1: you without having the fear of. He's going to bang 705 00:44:17,460 --> 00:44:20,180 S1: you over the head if you make one wrong move, 706 00:44:20,620 --> 00:44:24,700 S1: so that you move out in fortitude and courage and 707 00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:27,779 S1: that you struggle well, that struggle is not a sign 708 00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:32,980 S1: of failures. Actually, struggle is success in this because he 709 00:44:32,980 --> 00:44:37,060 S1: is the one who is working in and through you. Right? 710 00:44:37,420 --> 00:44:41,339 S2: Absolutely, absolutely. And we haven't talked about the work of 711 00:44:41,340 --> 00:44:43,859 S2: the Holy Spirit in this. But but it's it's through 712 00:44:43,860 --> 00:44:46,860 S2: the work of the Holy Spirit acting in your life 713 00:44:46,860 --> 00:44:48,900 S2: that you are able to do this. It's through the 714 00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:50,779 S2: work of the Holy Spirit acting in your life that 715 00:44:50,780 --> 00:44:52,779 S2: you are able to grow in virtue, that you were 716 00:44:52,780 --> 00:44:55,100 S2: able to grow in self-control, that you were able to 717 00:44:55,140 --> 00:44:59,149 S2: grow at all. That that's, that's how this happens is 718 00:44:59,150 --> 00:45:02,750 S2: that God is working through you. As you said, it's 719 00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:05,430 S2: God working through you that you were able to do this. 720 00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:09,670 S2: And so you are, you are becoming the person God 721 00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:13,710 S2: created you to be. And that's a beautiful thing. Yeah. 722 00:45:13,950 --> 00:45:16,430 S1: Every day when you wake up, you can, you can 723 00:45:16,430 --> 00:45:21,470 S1: launch into that. And I think what you've done, Alan, is, uh, 724 00:45:21,469 --> 00:45:26,750 S1: one of these theorems, postulates that I have about most of, 725 00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:30,950 S1: of life is we think about what we want and 726 00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:33,670 S1: is God going to give me what I want? And 727 00:45:33,670 --> 00:45:37,750 S1: from God's perspective, it is this is what you need. 728 00:45:38,110 --> 00:45:40,109 S1: I'm going to give you what you need, not what 729 00:45:40,110 --> 00:45:43,030 S1: you want to conform you to the image of my 730 00:45:43,030 --> 00:45:46,989 S1: son and to bring you through. You know, I like 731 00:45:46,989 --> 00:45:49,910 S1: to just arrive. I just like the I don't like 732 00:45:49,910 --> 00:45:52,230 S1: the process. I want it to be over. I want 733 00:45:52,270 --> 00:45:58,270 S1: to arrive. And what you've written here is a very calming, helpful, 734 00:45:59,870 --> 00:46:03,590 S1: putting the noise down in the culture around us. Even 735 00:46:03,590 --> 00:46:07,950 S1: in the Christian culture, the noise can get cacophonous. If 736 00:46:07,950 --> 00:46:10,390 S1: you do a really good job. You made me think so. 737 00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:13,590 S1: That's a that's a really high bar to get over, 738 00:46:13,590 --> 00:46:17,470 S1: Doctor Alan Noble to live well. Practical wisdom from moving 739 00:46:17,469 --> 00:46:20,350 S1: through chaotic times. Thanks for sharing your heart with us 740 00:46:20,350 --> 00:46:21,990 S1: today and come back again. Okay? 741 00:46:22,710 --> 00:46:23,790 S2: All right. Thank you. 742 00:46:24,390 --> 00:46:27,030 S1: Doctor Alan Noble. You can find out more about him 743 00:46:27,230 --> 00:46:31,270 S1: and the featured resource and find out go to his website. 744 00:46:31,270 --> 00:46:33,509 S1: If you haven't gotten out of bed, you can read 745 00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:37,069 S1: that on Getting Out of Bed tomorrow. They've grown up 746 00:46:37,070 --> 00:46:42,150 S1: with technology screens and AI. How do you reach Generation Alpha? 747 00:46:42,590 --> 00:46:45,029 S1: We'll find out right here on Chris Fabry Live, which 748 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:47,870 S1: is a production of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody 749 00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:49,189 S1: Bible Institute.