1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,719 S1: That traveling troubadour of the soul is not traveling as 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,360 S1: much these days, but he still has soul and a 3 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:13,840 S1: body of work that spans the ages. Today at the 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,600 S1: radio backyard fence. As we hurtle toward Christmas, singer songwriter 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:23,599 S1: author Michael Card returns for an incarnation conversation. Every time 6 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,040 S1: he comes back, it's like old home week. It's like 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,400 S1: family gathering with somebody who has walked the trail a 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,720 S1: little longer and has some wisdom and perspectives on the 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:36,080 S1: biblical story. For us. There's hesed ahead today on Chris 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,120 S1: Fabry Live, the program from the heart to the heart 11 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,919 S1: for the heart. Our team has assembled some. Let me 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,639 S1: thank them for their excellent work in advance. Ryan McConaughey's 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,680 S1: doing all things technical. Trish is our producer, but Lisa's 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,240 S1: in the chair today. Josh will be answering your calls. 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,480 S1: Our other team members are back fence friends and partners, 16 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,040 S1: those who support this program with a gift. And we're 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,600 S1: down to the last two and a half weeks of December. 18 00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:02,170 S1: Can you believe that? Would you could you give a 19 00:01:02,170 --> 00:01:05,090 S1: year end gift? If you say yes and call or 20 00:01:05,090 --> 00:01:07,410 S1: click through? We are going to send you the excellent 21 00:01:07,410 --> 00:01:13,570 S1: hardcover legacy book, Hosanna in Excelsis 43 Devotions and Stories 22 00:01:13,569 --> 00:01:16,209 S1: around the Christmas carols and the hymns that we sing 23 00:01:16,209 --> 00:01:19,850 S1: every year. So when you haul out the holly next year, 24 00:01:20,010 --> 00:01:22,050 S1: you will pull this book out and be ready to 25 00:01:22,090 --> 00:01:25,490 S1: go deeper into the stories behind. Away in a manger 26 00:01:25,490 --> 00:01:27,410 S1: and Joy to the world and O come, O come, 27 00:01:27,410 --> 00:01:37,650 S1: Emmanuel and 40 more. Give a gift today 866953227986695 or 28 00:01:37,650 --> 00:01:41,010 S1: go to Chris. Org. Scroll down. You'll see how you 29 00:01:41,010 --> 00:01:43,929 S1: can give right there and help us get to the 30 00:01:43,930 --> 00:01:51,290 S1: end of 2025. Would you do that, Chris? This song 31 00:01:51,290 --> 00:01:53,610 S1: has such great feel to it, doesn't it? Can't you 32 00:01:53,610 --> 00:01:56,890 S1: just see the wise men searching, going on camelback over 33 00:01:56,890 --> 00:02:02,450 S1: hill and dune Seeking, traveling, following yonder star from the promise, 34 00:02:02,450 --> 00:02:06,170 S1: a celebration of Christ's birth. Here he is. Michael Card. 35 00:02:06,850 --> 00:02:11,690 S2: On a day like any other in our search to 36 00:02:11,690 --> 00:02:18,450 S2: find the truth, we turn so many musty pages. And 37 00:02:18,450 --> 00:02:23,170 S2: our hope to find some clue. Then the words leapt 38 00:02:23,169 --> 00:02:30,050 S2: from the parchment. From Jacob's shines a star that a 39 00:02:30,050 --> 00:02:34,730 S2: wordless one. Who with the word will be worth a 40 00:02:34,730 --> 00:02:42,930 S2: journey far. We will find him, we will find him. 41 00:02:42,930 --> 00:02:48,970 S2: We will follow his star. We will search and we 42 00:02:48,970 --> 00:02:58,380 S2: will follow. No matter how far in cancer cells through kingdoms. 43 00:02:58,580 --> 00:03:04,500 S2: We know where to start to find the king whose 44 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:06,820 S2: kingdom is the heart. 45 00:03:07,740 --> 00:03:10,300 S1: That's such a great line to find the king whose 46 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:14,940 S1: kingdom is the heart that came out 34 years ago. Michael, 47 00:03:14,940 --> 00:03:16,220 S1: can you believe that? 48 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:22,340 S3: No I can't. I can't even begin to understand that. 49 00:03:23,180 --> 00:03:23,340 S1: The. 50 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:26,820 S3: 34 years ago. We're old. Chris. Well, I'm old. I 51 00:03:26,820 --> 00:03:27,660 S3: don't know about you. 52 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:31,420 S1: Yeah. We're getting. I'm four years behind you, so I'm okay. 53 00:03:31,620 --> 00:03:32,220 S1: I'm there. 54 00:03:32,580 --> 00:03:35,300 S3: But I'm high mileage. I'm high mileage. You're pretty high 55 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:37,820 S3: mileage too, though. I'll give you some miles, didn't you? 56 00:03:37,860 --> 00:03:40,780 S1: Yeah, but you had the high mileage oil change, didn't you? 57 00:03:41,660 --> 00:03:43,220 S3: Did I? What is that? 58 00:03:43,260 --> 00:03:47,060 S1: Yeah. You know, when you get more of the 200,000 miles, 59 00:03:47,060 --> 00:03:49,900 S1: they tell you you need to use this other viscosity oil. 60 00:03:50,260 --> 00:03:54,180 S3: Oh, okay. No, I don't remember having my oil change anytime. 61 00:03:54,780 --> 00:03:57,180 S3: And my my tires are pretty bald. I think if 62 00:03:57,180 --> 00:03:59,220 S3: you see a picture of me, bald is the first 63 00:03:59,220 --> 00:04:00,340 S3: word you're going to think of. 64 00:04:01,540 --> 00:04:03,780 S1: Uh, I was looking around on the internet today, and 65 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:07,860 S1: I found Christmas in Belfast. Yeah, and there was a 66 00:04:07,860 --> 00:04:12,420 S1: 17 year old kid who was, uh, doing the orchestration, 67 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:15,300 S1: you know, leading the orchestra over there, and you said, 68 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:18,180 S1: this is at the end. After everybody applauded, you said, 69 00:04:18,180 --> 00:04:21,380 S1: this is the musical future of Ireland. Do you know 70 00:04:21,380 --> 00:04:22,299 S1: what I'm talking about. 71 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:26,820 S3: Keith? Getty. Yeah, right. If I had known how famous 72 00:04:26,820 --> 00:04:28,900 S3: Keith Getty was going to become, I would have been 73 00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:30,099 S3: much nicer to him. 74 00:04:32,940 --> 00:04:36,420 S1: We had we had him on, uh, the other day, 75 00:04:36,620 --> 00:04:40,660 S1: a little earlier in the month, and he and Kristen 76 00:04:40,660 --> 00:04:44,140 S1: are going to be singing at Royal Albert Hall, and 77 00:04:44,140 --> 00:04:46,420 S1: I think that's in London, if I'm not mistaken. 78 00:04:46,420 --> 00:04:47,300 S3: It is. It is. 79 00:04:47,540 --> 00:04:51,420 S1: Yeah. This, uh, this Friday. And if you you can't 80 00:04:51,420 --> 00:04:53,820 S1: go there from here probably and get tickets, but you 81 00:04:53,820 --> 00:04:57,870 S1: can see the concert live stream. Yeah, just go to 82 00:04:57,910 --> 00:05:01,830 S1: Getty Music.com and you can click through and just sign 83 00:05:01,830 --> 00:05:04,910 S1: up for it and you can watch it throughout the from. 84 00:05:04,950 --> 00:05:06,990 S1: It's a free live stream concert. 85 00:05:07,029 --> 00:05:11,029 S3: He was he was this nerdy little Irish guy, you know, 86 00:05:11,070 --> 00:05:14,470 S3: who loved orchestras and music and stuff. And he had a, 87 00:05:14,510 --> 00:05:18,750 S3: you know, he he conducted the orchestra. And like I said, 88 00:05:18,990 --> 00:05:20,830 S3: I would have been much nicer to him if I'd 89 00:05:20,830 --> 00:05:22,469 S3: known how famous he was going to become. 90 00:05:23,110 --> 00:05:26,190 S1: Now, tell people what you were doing today. What was 91 00:05:26,190 --> 00:05:29,710 S1: on the on the on the trip tour today for you? 92 00:05:29,870 --> 00:05:33,589 S3: Well, I have I have seven grandchildren and, uh, four 93 00:05:33,589 --> 00:05:35,830 S3: of them live within about a half a mile of 94 00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:41,190 S3: my house. So I put together three bicycles, Christmas bicycles 95 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:45,029 S3: today and, um, with, with, uh, they were, I don't 96 00:05:45,029 --> 00:05:47,550 S3: know what country they were from, but the instructions were 97 00:05:47,550 --> 00:05:50,909 S3: obviously written by someone whose for whom English was their 98 00:05:50,910 --> 00:05:56,630 S3: second language. Yeah. I've put together three bicycles today. 99 00:05:57,150 --> 00:06:00,630 S1: All right, so what what have you learned from being 100 00:06:00,630 --> 00:06:01,710 S1: a grandparent? 101 00:06:03,070 --> 00:06:06,989 S3: Well, I just just the fact that there's this whole 102 00:06:06,990 --> 00:06:10,430 S3: other person in the world who comes into the world 103 00:06:10,430 --> 00:06:15,510 S3: who loves you, and you didn't do anything. Um, my 104 00:06:15,870 --> 00:06:19,230 S3: one of my granddaughters, uh, her name is Callan. I 105 00:06:19,230 --> 00:06:24,549 S3: went over there to their house yesterday, and she just just, um, 106 00:06:24,830 --> 00:06:26,950 S3: she climbed up, up in my lap and put her 107 00:06:26,950 --> 00:06:31,190 S3: arms around me and and burrowed. Burrowed her head, you know, 108 00:06:31,230 --> 00:06:34,710 S3: into my my neck and my shoulder and just lay 109 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:36,790 S3: there and fell asleep. I didn't say anything. I didn't say, 110 00:06:36,830 --> 00:06:40,589 S3: come here. And everybody. My wife was there and my 111 00:06:40,870 --> 00:06:44,350 S3: my daughter was there, and their, their mouths were open 112 00:06:44,390 --> 00:06:48,030 S3: just to see the love that this little girl shows, 113 00:06:48,710 --> 00:06:50,950 S3: you know. And I didn't do anything. I just showed 114 00:06:50,950 --> 00:06:53,480 S3: up and she climbed up in my life, my lap, 115 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,640 S3: and embraced me. And it was just magical. And that 116 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:57,599 S3: was just yesterday. 117 00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:58,440 S1: Mhm. 118 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:00,719 S3: Yeah. Grandkids are great. 119 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:08,440 S1: Can you imagine Joseph having Jesus do that to him. 120 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:09,640 S1: Reach up and. 121 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:10,200 S3: Say wow. 122 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,120 S1: Daddy hold me, hold me. 123 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,320 S3: Wow. I never thought of anything like that. Yeah of 124 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:21,000 S3: Jesus doing that. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And teaching Jesus words. 125 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,000 S3: And this is, you know, this is a sheep. Can 126 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,080 S3: you say sheep? Because that's the other thing I do, 127 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:32,440 S3: you know, I'm teaching them how to talk and, uh. Yeah. No, 128 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,720 S3: I've never thought of that. Chris. That's a cool, very 129 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:35,560 S3: cool idea. 130 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,160 S1: Isn't that great? And I was talking with Rosie De 131 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,280 S1: rosette last week about this and the, the image of 132 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,400 S1: there was a film that came out a few years ago, 133 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,280 S1: and I didn't like the way that they, uh, some 134 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,360 S1: of the things that they did with Jesus in Egypt, 135 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,600 S1: But the very last shot of this was Jesus there, 136 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:02,800 S1: traveling back to Israel, back to Nazareth. And Jesus runs 137 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,040 S1: at the precipice of this hill. And he just kind 138 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,600 S1: of looks over at the, at the horizon, and then 139 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,720 S1: he runs back down the hill. I can't do it. 140 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:11,960 S1: I never I never can do this without choking up. 141 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,400 S1: He runs back down the hill and he jumps up 142 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,640 S1: into Joseph's arms, and Joseph puts him on his shoulders 143 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,560 S1: and carries him. And to think of the Son of God, 144 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:26,280 S1: the one who made everything is dependent on his mom 145 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,760 S1: and dad to do everything for him. 146 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,760 S3: Well, the thing I love about, I mean both Joseph 147 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:39,240 S3: and Mary, but especially Joseph, he's immediately obedient, you know, before, 148 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:43,360 S3: you know, before any kind of sign, he he he 149 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,559 S3: does what God tells him to do. I mean, he's 150 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:50,610 S3: he's just this remarkable. And, you know, the to be 151 00:08:50,610 --> 00:08:54,689 S3: the father to the Son of God. Yeah. The Lord 152 00:08:54,850 --> 00:08:57,050 S3: must have chosen a very special person. 153 00:08:58,410 --> 00:09:01,890 S1: Or or a special person that he equipped. See, I 154 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:06,610 S1: think that's it's more this it's like Joseph grew into 155 00:09:07,090 --> 00:09:10,970 S1: and in in some ways Mary did as well. The 156 00:09:10,970 --> 00:09:14,970 S1: idea of. Okay, so that's what this means today that 157 00:09:14,970 --> 00:09:17,130 S1: I get to do this. And I want to talk 158 00:09:17,130 --> 00:09:19,850 S1: more about that with you. Tomorrow we're going to do 159 00:09:19,850 --> 00:09:22,809 S1: an all grandparent all the time program. So if you're 160 00:09:22,809 --> 00:09:25,610 S1: a grandparent make sure you listen tomorrow here on Chris 161 00:09:25,650 --> 00:09:28,650 S1: Fabry Live. Today it's Michael Card I'm going to open 162 00:09:28,650 --> 00:09:30,290 S1: the phone lines. If you want to talk with Michael 163 00:09:30,290 --> 00:09:38,530 S1: you have an observation about Christmas. Some of his music. (877) 548-3675. 164 00:09:38,570 --> 00:09:42,209 S1: More straight ahead on Moody radio one. 165 00:09:42,250 --> 00:09:51,580 S2: Born so lonely. The heavens Declare will someday reign without 166 00:09:51,580 --> 00:10:09,300 S2: a rival. They. Have found. We have found. We have found. 167 00:10:11,540 --> 00:10:20,700 S2: We have found. We have found. We have found. 168 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:31,459 S1: Michael Card is at the back fence with some thoughts 169 00:10:31,460 --> 00:10:34,660 S1: and music. Like this one. Joseph's song. 170 00:10:35,420 --> 00:10:45,500 S2: How could it be? This baby in my arms. Sleeping now. 171 00:10:47,260 --> 00:10:59,740 S2: So peacefully. The son of God. The angel said. How 172 00:11:00,340 --> 00:11:12,780 S2: could it be? Lord, I know he's not my own. 173 00:11:15,140 --> 00:11:24,340 S2: Not of my flesh, not of my bones. Still, father, 174 00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:39,699 S2: let this baby be the son of my love. Father, 175 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:44,780 S2: show me where I fit into this plan of yours. 176 00:11:45,870 --> 00:11:54,350 S2: How can a man be father to the Son of God? Lord, 177 00:11:54,590 --> 00:12:02,390 S2: for all my life I've been a simple carpenter. How 178 00:12:02,470 --> 00:12:08,950 S2: can I raise a king? How can I raise a king? 179 00:12:09,350 --> 00:12:15,150 S2: He looks so small. His face and hands so fair. 180 00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:22,150 S2: And when he cries, the sun just seems to disappear. 181 00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:33,990 S2: But when he laughs. It shines again. How could it be? 182 00:12:34,510 --> 00:12:36,949 S1: Okay. Right there. I gotta stop it right there when 183 00:12:36,950 --> 00:12:40,510 S1: he laughs. And then you hear the flutes come in. 184 00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:43,830 S1: And a little earlier, there's an oboe that came. That's 185 00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:46,750 S1: just a gorgeous setting of that song. And how many 186 00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:49,630 S1: people are listening right now who've who've sung that in 187 00:12:49,670 --> 00:12:53,630 S1: their own church? You know, Jacob in the in the pageant. Uh, 188 00:12:54,030 --> 00:12:56,469 S1: that's so what is it like to to listen to 189 00:12:56,510 --> 00:12:58,270 S1: that now, all these years later? 190 00:12:58,710 --> 00:13:00,910 S3: Well, it's funny because I haven't listened to that in 191 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:05,190 S3: a long time. And I started I started crying, crying. Um, 192 00:13:06,590 --> 00:13:10,429 S3: because you emotionally, uh, hopefully through that song, you emotionally 193 00:13:10,429 --> 00:13:14,429 S3: connect to Joseph and, you know, just just imagine what 194 00:13:14,429 --> 00:13:16,750 S3: he went through. He has this dream. God speaks to 195 00:13:16,790 --> 00:13:20,030 S3: him in dreams. The angel appears to Mary because Mary. 196 00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:23,070 S3: Mary is apparently the sort of person that can believe 197 00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:26,590 S3: a direct, angelic appearance. Joseph is the kind of person 198 00:13:26,590 --> 00:13:30,150 S3: who believes dreams better. So God speaks to him in dreams, 199 00:13:30,150 --> 00:13:33,830 S3: but he wakes up and he immediately does what the 200 00:13:33,830 --> 00:13:37,470 S3: angel tells him to do. And, uh, and again, it's 201 00:13:37,470 --> 00:13:41,870 S3: just sort of trying to emotionally connect with this, you know, 202 00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:45,000 S3: this baby, He knows very. He knows Mary. He trusts her. 203 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,480 S3: He's he's not going to harm her. He could have, 204 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,240 S3: you know, exacted some sort of revenge on her for being, 205 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,680 S3: you know, her becoming pregnant before they had, uh, come together. Um, 206 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,120 S3: but no, Joseph is the kind of person who who 207 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,760 S3: believes this dream. And then what's it like to hold 208 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:08,280 S3: this baby and think, you know, how could this be? 209 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,080 S3: You know, I'm the father to the, you know, the 210 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,079 S3: foster father, anyway, to the Son of God. Um, and 211 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:17,760 S3: and the other thing about Joseph is he doesn't open 212 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,840 S3: his mouth. There's not a single word of Joseph in 213 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,240 S3: all the Gospels. He doesn't open his mouth. Uh, especially I, 214 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,920 S3: I love it when Jesus is, uh, is 12 and 215 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,040 S3: they lose him for three days, and, uh, they finally 216 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,960 S3: find him in the temple, and Mary says, you know, 217 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,360 S3: why have you treated us like this? Which is exactly 218 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:42,840 S3: what my mother would have said, said to me. But 219 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,200 S3: Joseph doesn't open his mouth. Uh, I think he was. 220 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,840 S3: He didn't want to say something that would end up 221 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,200 S3: in the Bible later on. He's probably pretty tense. 222 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,960 S1: You know, I've often thought about that. And the question 223 00:14:55,960 --> 00:15:00,400 S1: that is implicit in that passage to me is, what 224 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,760 S1: did Jesus do those three nights? Did he stay near 225 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,120 S1: the temple? Did he stay in the outer court? Did 226 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,320 S1: somebody take him in? And and I'll say this. And 227 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,680 S1: somebody I've got the two Michaels coming on a little 228 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,040 S1: later in the in the week and they'll say, yeah, no, 229 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,680 S1: you can't ask that question. But it's like, what if, 230 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:25,120 S1: what if the a young, um, leader Pharisee? Uh, Nicodemus, 231 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:29,600 S1: what if he took this 12 year old boy and said, okay, 232 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,760 S1: your parents are coming back for you, come and stay 233 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:32,360 S1: with us. 234 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,600 S3: Yeah, that's that's I think that's totally credible. Yeah. Um, 235 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,490 S3: and I'm sure there was all kinds. I know all 236 00:15:40,490 --> 00:15:44,690 S3: the synagogues had guest rooms, and there were all. Probably 237 00:15:44,690 --> 00:15:47,570 S3: all kinds of facilities for people, you know, who were 238 00:15:47,570 --> 00:15:52,130 S3: visiting the temple from, you know, from far away. But, uh, yeah, 239 00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:56,570 S3: he and, you know, they always say, oh, he was teaching. Well, 240 00:15:56,610 --> 00:16:00,810 S3: not strictly speaking. He's not really teaching. He's asking them questions, 241 00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:05,650 S3: but he's also answering questions that they're he's engaging at 242 00:16:05,650 --> 00:16:08,410 S3: this as this little boy. He's not just I don't know, 243 00:16:10,050 --> 00:16:16,690 S3: I think it's more complex than it's presented sometimes. He's, uh. Yeah, 244 00:16:16,690 --> 00:16:20,410 S3: he's asking them questions and engaging with all these these 245 00:16:20,450 --> 00:16:25,490 S3: leaders and these rabbis. And, you know, we got rabbis 246 00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:28,290 S3: and priests. Jesus lives in a very fragmented world. You know, 247 00:16:28,330 --> 00:16:31,490 S3: we got we got synagogue with rabbis and we got 248 00:16:31,490 --> 00:16:34,370 S3: temple with priests. And that's all going on at the 249 00:16:34,370 --> 00:16:35,770 S3: same time in his world. 250 00:16:36,250 --> 00:16:39,580 S1: And then you've got the Roman occupation and all of 251 00:16:39,620 --> 00:16:42,380 S1: that that's going on around. And even in the news 252 00:16:42,380 --> 00:16:45,220 S1: over the weekend. Michael and I mentioned this before we 253 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:49,460 S1: went on, uh, Australia and what happened there and the 254 00:16:49,460 --> 00:16:53,060 S1: I think 16 now have died in the, the shooting 255 00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:56,420 S1: at the Hanukkah celebration. It's just hard to wrap your 256 00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:57,860 S1: mind around, isn't it? 257 00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:00,540 S3: No, it's you know, my my mentor used to say 258 00:17:00,540 --> 00:17:05,100 S3: it's a death impregnated world. I just saw the thing about, uh, 259 00:17:05,260 --> 00:17:07,500 S3: what's his name? Rob. Somebody who's, uh. 260 00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:08,460 S1: Reiner. Yeah. 261 00:17:08,660 --> 00:17:11,980 S3: Rob Reiner. Whose was it? His son. Who killed him, 262 00:17:11,980 --> 00:17:15,300 S3: or he was killed by one of his kids. He 263 00:17:15,300 --> 00:17:15,820 S3: and his wife. 264 00:17:15,820 --> 00:17:20,700 S1: That's what it sounds like. You know, of, supposedly. Or. Yeah. 265 00:17:21,260 --> 00:17:24,940 S1: We don't know everything that you know, and but information 266 00:17:24,940 --> 00:17:27,139 S1: is so fast, you know, and so we get the 267 00:17:27,340 --> 00:17:30,140 S1: the identity of the shooters and the father and the son. 268 00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:33,859 S1: And it's like, we want this stuff so quickly because 269 00:17:33,859 --> 00:17:35,659 S1: it's there and it's like you don't have time to 270 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:40,460 S1: really process the, horror of it. Yeah. Yeah. 271 00:17:40,740 --> 00:17:44,380 S3: Horror. Horror is a good word. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's 272 00:17:44,420 --> 00:17:46,899 S3: a it's a death impregnated world. And also, there's nothing 273 00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:49,500 S3: new under the sun. It's not like people go, oh, 274 00:17:49,540 --> 00:17:53,300 S3: things are getting so bad. Well, no, Jesus lives in 275 00:17:53,300 --> 00:17:55,859 S3: a world where there are same, same kind of horrors. 276 00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:58,820 S3: I mean, the Romans are crucifying people. You, you know, 277 00:17:58,859 --> 00:18:01,580 S3: you you come up to a busy intersection, almost any 278 00:18:01,619 --> 00:18:04,340 S3: place in Jesus world, and there's going to be somebody 279 00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:07,340 S3: hanging on a cross. So, um. 280 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:15,860 S1: Or or the, the authorities coming after kids, boys, male boys. Well, 281 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:21,380 S1: males two and under. Yeah. And going to kill them. Yes. 282 00:18:21,580 --> 00:18:23,820 S1: And then the weeping that is heard over that. I mean, 283 00:18:23,859 --> 00:18:27,380 S1: that's that's what his early life was like. 284 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:32,740 S3: Yes. Yeah. You, we we don't appreciate how fragmented and 285 00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:37,429 S3: how dangerous Jesus world is. I mean, he's he's running. 286 00:18:37,430 --> 00:18:41,990 S3: I mean, in utero. They've got to get away. Um, uh, 287 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:45,710 S3: in as a child, he's in danger. And at one point, 288 00:18:45,750 --> 00:18:48,790 S3: he doesn't, uh, I think the second the second Passover 289 00:18:48,790 --> 00:18:51,990 S3: of his ministry. Uh, I think John says he doesn't 290 00:18:51,990 --> 00:18:54,950 S3: go to to Jerusalem because the they were waiting there 291 00:18:54,950 --> 00:18:58,230 S3: to take his life. You know, he he is under 292 00:18:58,230 --> 00:19:02,310 S3: threat his whole life. And what does that what does 293 00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:06,270 S3: that mean? What does that look like? Um, it means 294 00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:09,510 S3: it means he's very courageous to be traveling around and 295 00:19:09,510 --> 00:19:10,950 S3: doing the things he's doing. 296 00:19:11,350 --> 00:19:15,629 S1: Um, even the people he healed like Lazarus, they wanted 297 00:19:15,630 --> 00:19:18,350 S1: to kill Lazarus because they're. You know, here's the proof 298 00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:19,070 S1: right here. 299 00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:21,790 S3: Right. Destroy the evidence. And and it also makes you 300 00:19:21,790 --> 00:19:24,870 S3: understand why so frequently, I think seven times Jesus will 301 00:19:24,869 --> 00:19:27,670 S3: heal people and say, please don't tell anybody I did 302 00:19:27,670 --> 00:19:31,109 S3: that right. Yeah. And of course, they never do. How 303 00:19:31,109 --> 00:19:34,550 S3: can you not tell? And what happens is he's so 304 00:19:34,670 --> 00:19:37,270 S3: covered up with people that he can't do what he 305 00:19:37,310 --> 00:19:39,750 S3: he says he's called to do, and that is preach 306 00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:40,950 S3: the good news of the kingdom. 307 00:19:41,869 --> 00:19:43,909 S1: I want you to go back to when he was 12, though, 308 00:19:43,950 --> 00:19:46,550 S1: in the temple. And I the picture that I have 309 00:19:46,550 --> 00:19:50,990 S1: in my mind is Jesus sitting and kind of he's 310 00:19:50,990 --> 00:19:56,790 S1: got his elbow, his chin on his his fist, and 311 00:19:56,790 --> 00:20:00,750 S1: he's watching and he's listening and he's he's leaning forward 312 00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:05,070 S1: and he's just paying so much attention, but he's processing 313 00:20:05,070 --> 00:20:07,830 S1: everything that everybody is saying, and he's looking around at 314 00:20:07,830 --> 00:20:10,189 S1: the people who are asking questions, as well as the, 315 00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:12,830 S1: you know, those who are in authority and teaching from 316 00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:16,910 S1: the scroll. And then they see him and he kind 317 00:20:16,950 --> 00:20:21,350 S1: of raises his hand or and they say, yes. And, 318 00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:26,350 S1: and he asks some question that just shows the wisdom 319 00:20:26,350 --> 00:20:30,310 S1: and shows something. It's like there's there's no 12 year 320 00:20:30,350 --> 00:20:32,750 S1: old who's asking that kind of question. Is that what 321 00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:33,520 S1: it was like? 322 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,840 S3: Yeah. Well, Luke, Luke says, and that's in chapter two. 323 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:42,280 S3: Luke says everyone was amazed at his understanding and his answers. 324 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,880 S3: So apparently they're asking him questions and, uh, and, and 325 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,000 S3: 12 the other thing about Judaism is you got to 326 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,159 S3: realize there's really no you're a boy or you're a man. 327 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,080 S3: And 12 after your bar mitzvah, you're a man. You know, 328 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,040 S3: there's no teenager. There's kind of no middle ground. So 329 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:05,439 S3: he's right on that, you know, that bar mitzvah line. But, uh, 330 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,719 S3: but the fact that he's in the sitting in the 331 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,800 S3: temple court and that people are amazed by his understanding 332 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,200 S3: and his answers. So apparently, you know, again, I don't 333 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:21,120 S3: I don't know if he's strictly teaching, but he's engaging 334 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,360 S3: with all these biblical, you know, scholars. 335 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,840 S1: Uh, okay. So so answer this because I know you've 336 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,400 S1: you've done some research on in in Mary and Joseph's home. Then, 337 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,159 S1: You know, I have the Bible. I've got all of 338 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:37,359 S1: the Old Testament, quote unquote. I've got it here. What 339 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,640 S1: would they would they would they have had scrolls? Would 340 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,280 S1: they have had the Psalms? Would they have had Proverbs? 341 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:44,119 S1: What would they have had in their home? 342 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,840 S3: Uh, you know, I wish I could give you a 343 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:53,439 S3: definitive answer. I don't think, uh, I think the scrolls 344 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,200 S3: are going to be in the synagogue. I mean, that's 345 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,280 S3: a very expensive thing. Um, you know, so I don't 346 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,920 S3: know what they would have had in their home, but 347 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,080 S3: what what you need to know is, uh, I say 348 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,280 S3: it this way. Jesus does. Doesn't just quote. And people 349 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,400 S3: in Jesus world, they don't just quote the Hebrew Bible. 350 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,520 S3: They think in the Hebrew Bible, they are so saturated 351 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,760 S3: with the Old Testament scriptures. Uh, a lot of times, 352 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,560 S3: I think in the in the Gospels people say, well, 353 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,120 S3: Jesus is quoting Jeremiah, and I say, no, he's not 354 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:31,330 S3: really quoting Jeremiah. Jesus thinks in Jeremiah. it's hard for 355 00:22:31,330 --> 00:22:34,010 S3: us to realize I have a few friends. Bill Lane 356 00:22:34,010 --> 00:22:37,449 S3: was a person who was so saturated with the scriptures 357 00:22:37,609 --> 00:22:40,330 S3: that he would speak in, in lines from the Bible, 358 00:22:40,369 --> 00:22:45,450 S3: and he wasn't really quoting it. He just thought biblically, 359 00:22:45,690 --> 00:22:47,209 S3: you know, and I think, I think that's more of 360 00:22:47,210 --> 00:22:50,609 S3: what Jesus world is like. We, we I think it's 361 00:22:50,609 --> 00:22:53,929 S3: hard for us to imagine how a, how well acquainted 362 00:22:54,609 --> 00:22:58,050 S3: Jesus and his contemporaries were with the with the Scripture. 363 00:22:58,090 --> 00:23:01,210 S1: Don't you wonder what happened to Joseph since he's he 364 00:23:01,210 --> 00:23:05,170 S1: didn't speak words and then he goes off the stage. He's, 365 00:23:05,369 --> 00:23:10,490 S1: you know, Jesus on the cross is commending Mary to, uh, John, uh, 366 00:23:10,490 --> 00:23:14,010 S1: right there from the cross. And so Joseph is not there. 367 00:23:14,050 --> 00:23:17,010 S1: What did. Yes. Did he get a disease? Did he, 368 00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:20,170 S1: you know, was it an accident, don't you wonder? Well. 369 00:23:20,490 --> 00:23:23,490 S3: Well, I mean, you know, what? The average age, you know, 370 00:23:23,690 --> 00:23:26,370 S3: back in those days, if you lived into your 40s, 371 00:23:26,770 --> 00:23:29,570 S3: you know, late 30s or 40s, you were, you know, 372 00:23:29,970 --> 00:23:33,290 S3: you done well. So my guess is he probably. He 373 00:23:33,290 --> 00:23:37,889 S3: died early. And Jesus entrusts, uh, married to John because 374 00:23:37,890 --> 00:23:43,170 S3: John's his cousin. Uh, John's mother is a cousin of Mary's. 375 00:23:43,450 --> 00:23:46,610 S3: So it makes it makes perfect sense. Yeah. 376 00:23:47,410 --> 00:23:49,929 S1: We're talking to Michael Card today, and there was an 377 00:23:49,930 --> 00:23:56,850 S1: album that came out 34 years ago, and, uh, stop that. Okay, 378 00:23:56,890 --> 00:24:00,610 S1: so stop 34 years ago. And his voice is you 379 00:24:00,650 --> 00:24:02,770 S1: were singing a little higher back then, but, you know, 380 00:24:02,810 --> 00:24:04,770 S1: we can talk more about that. But he said in 381 00:24:04,810 --> 00:24:07,530 S1: that album, he said, we have sentimentalized the birth of 382 00:24:07,530 --> 00:24:10,290 S1: Jesus of Nazareth. When we think of the birth, we 383 00:24:10,290 --> 00:24:12,290 S1: see wise men and shepherds and a star. The birth 384 00:24:12,290 --> 00:24:14,330 S1: of Christ is so much more than a birthday to 385 00:24:14,369 --> 00:24:18,690 S1: be observed once a year. Yeah. Tell me why. 386 00:24:19,609 --> 00:24:21,770 S3: Well, I mean, it's I think it's something that we 387 00:24:21,770 --> 00:24:25,570 S3: should celebrate, you know, every day of the year that, 388 00:24:25,609 --> 00:24:31,100 S3: you know, Emmanuel. God is with us that he he. 389 00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:35,420 S3: You know, Paul says he emptied himself. Um, I love 390 00:24:35,420 --> 00:24:38,500 S3: it when Peter reminds Jesus. You know, we've left everything 391 00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:45,020 S3: to follow you. Right. And, uh. But Jesus left Paradise. Yes. 392 00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:47,020 S3: To be with us. Look at what he look at. 393 00:24:47,020 --> 00:24:50,260 S3: What he let go of. What? What must it have 394 00:24:50,260 --> 00:24:54,139 S3: been like to be born in human flesh after he had, 395 00:24:54,180 --> 00:24:57,140 S3: you know, been where he was previously? We don't have 396 00:24:57,140 --> 00:25:00,060 S3: language or words to even understand what it was like 397 00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:02,980 S3: to be present with the father, but he empties himself 398 00:25:02,980 --> 00:25:10,500 S3: and takes on human flesh and is misunderstood and ridiculed and, um, eventually, 399 00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:12,500 S3: obviously crucified. 400 00:25:12,540 --> 00:25:16,940 S1: Yes. And he rose again. Michael Card's with us today. 401 00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:19,140 S1: We have more with him coming up straight ahead. This 402 00:25:19,140 --> 00:25:21,740 S1: is Chris Fabry live on Moody Radio. 403 00:25:23,060 --> 00:25:32,470 S2: The son of God. The angels said. How could it be? 404 00:25:38,590 --> 00:25:40,870 S2: How could it be? 405 00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:07,470 S1: Doing a little life with Michael Card as we head 406 00:26:07,470 --> 00:26:11,350 S1: toward Christmas. This is what her heart remembered. 407 00:26:13,230 --> 00:26:22,350 S2: Out in the stable yard she sees a glow. Could 408 00:26:22,670 --> 00:26:33,590 S2: it be angel light? How would she know? Shepherds stand wondering, 409 00:26:34,350 --> 00:26:42,390 S2: afraid to come in. But the baby that's born tonight 410 00:26:42,750 --> 00:26:52,109 S2: will free them all to never fear again. As he 411 00:26:52,109 --> 00:26:59,030 S2: lies in a cattle trough. She kneels by his side. 412 00:27:00,510 --> 00:27:12,350 S2: Sweet baby. Breathing soft infant sighs. Soft sounds of swallowing 413 00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:23,960 S2: as soft fingers part morning memories. She pondered them And 414 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:34,000 S2: hid them in her heart. Like a good mother would. 415 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:41,560 S2: She learned his cries. If he'd awake with a belly 416 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:49,720 S2: ache from hunger or fright. But now and then. Sometimes 417 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:57,480 S2: when the dark would descend. He would weep A dark 418 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:03,720 S2: so deep. For all her love she couldn't comprehend. 419 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,120 S1: I love that soft sounds of swallowing. Yeah. Because you 420 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,160 S1: get this idea of Jesus. You know, he is so 421 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,960 S1: innocent and so dependent. He is getting his nourishment from 422 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,800 S1: the breast of his mother. And that's it, right? 423 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,399 S3: Yeah, I think I, you know, we had four kids 424 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,200 S3: and I think it when I wrote that song, you know, 425 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,240 S3: they make this sound when they nurse and, uh, it's 426 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,879 S3: making me cry just to think of it. Now that he's, 427 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,720 S3: he is submits to all to to all of that. 428 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,240 S3: I mean, imagine what it must have been like to 429 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:47,040 S3: have come into flesh to be totally dependent on, you know, 430 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,560 S3: his mother and his and his father and, uh, sleeping in. 431 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,000 S3: We call it a manger. A manger is a nice 432 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,040 S3: word for a trough. He's sleeping in a cattle trough 433 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,960 S3: because they've got no place else to put him. And 434 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,320 S3: all the trips that I've made to Israel, when we've 435 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,040 S3: looked at these, there's a one city that we go 436 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,600 S3: to that has a first century house in it, and 437 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,360 S3: the trough is actually just an indentation in the ground. 438 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,840 S3: It's not like a this wooden manger like we have 439 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,000 S3: in the scenes. It's basically a, a trench where they 440 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,650 S3: would they would feed the animals. Now, I'm not saying 441 00:29:24,010 --> 00:29:27,370 S3: dogmatically that's what Jesus was in, but in the first century, 442 00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:32,770 S3: that's what a trough cattle trough was. And, um, yeah, 443 00:29:33,010 --> 00:29:39,010 S3: just it's it's, uh, it there aren't words for it. 444 00:29:39,010 --> 00:29:40,370 S3: There just aren't words for it. 445 00:29:41,210 --> 00:29:44,610 S1: Yeah, but you've written an awful lot of songs about this. 446 00:29:44,610 --> 00:29:48,010 S1: Trying trying that. That's the that's the challenge to try 447 00:29:48,010 --> 00:29:50,970 S1: to wrap your heart around it. Not just your mind 448 00:29:51,010 --> 00:29:54,370 S1: or wrap your words around it, but wrap your heart around. 449 00:29:54,530 --> 00:29:58,650 S1: This is how much God loved you. This is how 450 00:29:58,690 --> 00:30:01,290 S1: much he commended his love. This is what he was 451 00:30:01,290 --> 00:30:03,209 S1: willing to do, as you said, because I've been in 452 00:30:03,210 --> 00:30:05,690 S1: those places where people would say, you know, okay, who 453 00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:08,210 S1: came the furthest to this meeting here? You know, who 454 00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:11,930 S1: came from Alaska or who came from another country? It's like, oh, no, 455 00:30:12,170 --> 00:30:17,330 S1: Jesus came all the way from glory, from from heaven, right? 456 00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:21,130 S3: Yeah. Paul, you know, Philippians, Paul says he empties himself. 457 00:30:21,690 --> 00:30:24,930 S3: And again, we just don't have language for what he 458 00:30:24,930 --> 00:30:30,050 S3: endured to take on flesh and become a helpless baby 459 00:30:30,090 --> 00:30:33,090 S3: who's dependent on, you know, his mother and his father 460 00:30:33,370 --> 00:30:38,050 S3: and who is under threat of death his whole life because, 461 00:30:38,330 --> 00:30:43,650 S3: you know, um, because of who he was. Um, yeah. 462 00:30:43,850 --> 00:30:47,290 S3: And again, I just love that that moment where Peter says, 463 00:30:47,330 --> 00:30:49,250 S3: you know, we left everything to follow you. 464 00:30:51,490 --> 00:30:52,090 S1: Yes. 465 00:30:52,450 --> 00:30:52,730 S3: Yeah. 466 00:30:52,850 --> 00:30:57,729 S1: Um, okay. So in Ephesians, uh, praise the God and 467 00:30:57,730 --> 00:31:00,250 S1: Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us 468 00:31:00,250 --> 00:31:03,250 S1: in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavens, for 469 00:31:03,250 --> 00:31:07,530 S1: he chose us in him before the foundation of the 470 00:31:07,530 --> 00:31:12,050 S1: world to be holy and blameless in his sight. Uh, 471 00:31:12,050 --> 00:31:15,770 S1: to adopt predestined us to be adopted through Jesus Christ 472 00:31:16,130 --> 00:31:19,420 S1: for himself, according to his favor and will to the 473 00:31:19,420 --> 00:31:24,140 S1: praise of his glorious grace. So this idea, some people think, well, 474 00:31:24,180 --> 00:31:27,100 S1: you know, Adam and Eve, they fell. And it was, 475 00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:30,740 S1: what am I going to do now? Before the foundation 476 00:31:30,740 --> 00:31:34,900 S1: of the world, this was plan A and there wasn't 477 00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:35,700 S1: a plan B. 478 00:31:36,260 --> 00:31:40,660 S3: Yeah. And you know why? Because he loves us. I 479 00:31:41,260 --> 00:31:45,180 S3: realize this in church yesterday, I was asking myself why? 480 00:31:45,180 --> 00:31:49,940 S3: Why am I going to heaven? And the answer simply 481 00:31:49,940 --> 00:31:57,580 S3: was because he loves me. It's not complicated. Yeah, yeah. 482 00:31:57,620 --> 00:32:00,220 S3: He loves me so much he would rather die than 483 00:32:00,220 --> 00:32:01,180 S3: live without me. 484 00:32:03,620 --> 00:32:06,860 S1: And that when you say the word love. See, now, that's. 485 00:32:06,900 --> 00:32:09,820 S1: There's another thing. Greek has a lot of different words 486 00:32:09,820 --> 00:32:12,580 S1: to use for that, you know. And we've only got love. 487 00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:15,380 S1: And I love ice cream. And you know, I love you. 488 00:32:15,420 --> 00:32:19,470 S1: My my wife. Um, but the kind of love that 489 00:32:19,470 --> 00:32:25,470 S1: you're talking about is not just love that you express verbally. You, you. 490 00:32:25,550 --> 00:32:27,470 S1: It's an action verb. 491 00:32:27,990 --> 00:32:31,950 S3: Yeah. And, you know, I go back to Hebrew, uh, the, 492 00:32:31,950 --> 00:32:35,750 S3: the word hesed, which is translated 169 different ways. But 493 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:38,070 S3: one of the ways it's translated is love and loving 494 00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:41,750 S3: kindness is another way. It's translated. King James made up 495 00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:44,870 S3: the word loving kindness to try to translate the word hesed. 496 00:32:45,070 --> 00:32:48,310 S3: But my translation is it's when the person from whom 497 00:32:48,310 --> 00:32:51,630 S3: I have a right to expect nothing gives me everything. 498 00:32:52,150 --> 00:32:54,790 S3: And that's the love that Jesus has for me. I 499 00:32:54,790 --> 00:32:57,830 S3: stand before the cross. I have no right to expect 500 00:32:57,830 --> 00:33:01,110 S3: anything from him. I nailed him there. But what do 501 00:33:01,110 --> 00:33:03,510 S3: I get? I get everything. 502 00:33:06,670 --> 00:33:11,430 S1: It's amazing all that he accomplished. And here's the other thing. 503 00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:16,550 S1: It's not like, um, he did it. And, you know, 504 00:33:16,590 --> 00:33:18,950 S1: he helped us out a little bit. You know, we 505 00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:23,590 S1: did half and he did half. It's like we were helpless. 506 00:33:23,630 --> 00:33:27,270 S1: We were. We were like Lazarus on the slab. Yes. 507 00:33:27,310 --> 00:33:31,790 S1: Unable to move or breathe. And what he did for 508 00:33:31,790 --> 00:33:37,110 S1: us was give us that life because of the. Oh, yeah. 509 00:33:37,310 --> 00:33:41,510 S3: And the only way can the only appropriate response is 510 00:33:41,510 --> 00:33:44,910 S3: a life of gratitude and a life of trying to 511 00:33:44,910 --> 00:33:46,470 S3: serve him. Yeah. 512 00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:50,670 S1: And isn't it interesting then? You know, we just played 513 00:33:50,670 --> 00:33:54,150 S1: the song about Mary and what she treasured in her heart. 514 00:33:54,550 --> 00:34:00,190 S1: What she what she remembered, uh, those throughout her life 515 00:34:00,190 --> 00:34:03,830 S1: and throughout then the three years of Jesus ministry toward 516 00:34:03,830 --> 00:34:07,190 S1: the toward the end, the last three years, all of 517 00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:10,549 S1: these things were going on. And she had other children, 518 00:34:10,590 --> 00:34:13,589 S1: you know, and they were calling him. You mentioned in 519 00:34:13,590 --> 00:34:16,719 S1: the break God's own fool and that you're your granddaughter. 520 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,480 S1: Heard that the other day. Um, but. And and how? 521 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,799 S1: They said. Well, he must be out of his mind. Um, 522 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,440 S1: what are we going to do? Even his family members 523 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,120 S1: didn't get him at that point, right? 524 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,680 S3: Yeah. Jesus grows up in a house of nine people. 525 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,640 S3: He's got four brothers. We know their names. He has 526 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,360 S3: at least two sisters, Joseph and Mary. And him. Okay, 527 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,760 S3: so that's that. And he grows up in this, you know, 528 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,160 S3: pretty packed household. And at one point, you know, his 529 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,200 S3: brother is clear. You know, that his brothers don't believe 530 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,319 S3: who he is. Uh, if you know, if you're who 531 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,880 S3: you say you are, go, go. You know, prove yourself 532 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,960 S3: to the world kind of thing. That's their attitude. Because 533 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,160 S3: even his brothers didn't believe in him. Uh, I mean, 534 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,840 S3: eventually they did. Eventually they became leaders in the church. But, um, 535 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:11,600 S3: and that's another part of what he endured when he 536 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,960 S3: emptied himself, he emptied himself and became part of a 537 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,480 S3: family where even his own family members Joseph at one point. 538 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:20,240 S3: At one point, they think he's out of his. His 539 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,640 S3: family thinks he's out of his mind. Right. What must 540 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:24,880 S3: that have been like? 541 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:25,480 S1: Mhm. 542 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:26,600 S3: Yeah. 543 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,080 S1: Well, and the whole thing about Peter saying, you know, 544 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:33,680 S1: we've given, we've left everything to follow you. Look at, 545 00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,680 S1: look at all that we've given up here. Jesus. Uh, 546 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,920 S1: and I get, you know, I am Peter. I do 547 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,280 S1: the same kind of thing. Sure. But then. Then his own. 548 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,360 S1: You know, if anybody on the planet who would know him. 549 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,040 S1: And I wonder if there's not something there that Joseph 550 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,640 S1: had a connection with Jesus. If Joseph had been there 551 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:57,520 S1: when they were asking that question, he's out of his mind. 552 00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,120 S1: Maybe he could correct them. But because he's off stage, 553 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:07,120 S1: Jesus loses that connection with his earthly father that he desperately, 554 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,799 S1: you know, needed. Wanted. Yeah. And and connects with his 555 00:36:12,050 --> 00:36:16,690 S1: Heavenly Father so deeply because partly because of that loss 556 00:36:16,690 --> 00:36:19,290 S1: of his earthly dad. That's there. Not there. 557 00:36:19,330 --> 00:36:24,049 S3: Yeah. Yeah. Well, even when he's 12, uh, his response 558 00:36:24,050 --> 00:36:26,890 S3: to them, um, you know, didn't you know I'd be 559 00:36:26,890 --> 00:36:30,009 S3: in my father's house? Yes. He realizes even when he's 560 00:36:30,010 --> 00:36:32,810 S3: 12 that God is his. He has this unique relationship 561 00:36:32,810 --> 00:36:37,370 S3: with God as his father. Um, but what must that 562 00:36:37,370 --> 00:36:40,009 S3: have been like for Joseph? I just don't know if 563 00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:44,970 S3: we can understand emotionally. You know, what Joseph's was like. 564 00:36:44,969 --> 00:36:48,529 S3: But again, what I always go back to is Joseph 565 00:36:48,530 --> 00:36:54,049 S3: is immediately obedient to the dream that he has. Uh, 566 00:36:54,090 --> 00:36:57,290 S3: when the angel speaks to him in a dream and, uh, 567 00:36:57,290 --> 00:37:01,890 S3: that that tells me everything I need to know about Joseph. 568 00:37:02,250 --> 00:37:05,129 S1: What he said right there, I think, is a is 569 00:37:05,130 --> 00:37:09,090 S1: a really good point. What Jesus says to his parents 570 00:37:09,090 --> 00:37:11,969 S1: because he could say this. You know, I could see 571 00:37:12,010 --> 00:37:16,090 S1: kids in, uh, current TV, you know, having kind of 572 00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:18,450 S1: a cheeky response. Didn't you know that I was, you know, 573 00:37:18,489 --> 00:37:20,170 S1: that kind of thing is, I don't think it was 574 00:37:20,170 --> 00:37:21,890 S1: that way. I think it was the same thing that 575 00:37:21,890 --> 00:37:24,490 S1: we were talking about in the temple is that didn't 576 00:37:24,489 --> 00:37:26,890 S1: didn't you know that I was supposed to be about 577 00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:31,130 S1: my father's business, my father's house? It's like he's he's 578 00:37:31,130 --> 00:37:37,010 S1: almost by asking the question, letting them enter into the truth. 579 00:37:37,450 --> 00:37:40,850 S3: Yeah, yeah. And it's it's interesting to me that he 580 00:37:40,890 --> 00:37:43,330 S3: he kind of he goes, why were you looking for 581 00:37:43,330 --> 00:37:46,730 S3: me everywhere? Didn't you know I'd be in my father's house? 582 00:37:46,770 --> 00:37:49,450 S3: And again, I don't think that like I agree with you. 583 00:37:49,489 --> 00:37:54,530 S3: He's not being cheeky. He's just he's innocent and sweet 584 00:37:54,969 --> 00:37:58,970 S3: and obviously probably is. He's upset that they are upset 585 00:37:58,969 --> 00:37:59,730 S3: with him. 586 00:37:59,770 --> 00:38:03,850 S1: Yes. And he says the last thing he wanted to 587 00:38:03,850 --> 00:38:05,730 S1: do was not obey his parents. 588 00:38:05,770 --> 00:38:09,010 S3: Absolutely. He's perfect. Right? I mean, what is a perfect 589 00:38:09,010 --> 00:38:12,739 S3: 12 year old look like. But, um. Yeah. Why were 590 00:38:12,739 --> 00:38:14,580 S3: you looking for me everywhere? Didn't you know I'd be 591 00:38:14,580 --> 00:38:17,900 S3: my father's house? It's like. I don't understand why you 592 00:38:17,940 --> 00:38:21,419 S3: guys don't get this. But they apparently they didn't. They 593 00:38:21,420 --> 00:38:24,180 S3: just assumed that he was with with everyone else in 594 00:38:24,219 --> 00:38:27,379 S3: the family, you know, cousins and aunts and uncles that 595 00:38:27,380 --> 00:38:29,700 S3: were traveling and. Yeah. And he wasn't. 596 00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:32,420 S1: It would make sense that they would think that. Okay, 597 00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:35,980 S1: we got one final segment with Michael Card and we've 598 00:38:35,980 --> 00:38:39,219 S1: got Joanne who wants to know what is Vijay. Anna's 599 00:38:39,260 --> 00:38:43,100 S1: mean we'll talk about that straight ahead on Moody Radio. 600 00:38:45,020 --> 00:38:53,420 S2: His dark and bewildered eyes. Can they understand that this 601 00:38:53,420 --> 00:39:02,819 S2: baby she's given him is theirs for a time, in truth, 602 00:39:02,860 --> 00:39:10,580 S2: came to give himself the treasure and the Ransom of 603 00:39:10,820 --> 00:39:12,620 S2: man and. 604 00:39:32,020 --> 00:39:33,580 S1: I am so glad you joined us at the back 605 00:39:33,580 --> 00:39:36,700 S1: fence today. Michael Card is with us. None of his 606 00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:39,459 S1: songs are talked about in David and Barbara Lehman's book 607 00:39:39,460 --> 00:39:43,020 S1: Hosanna in Excelsis, but maybe one day they will be, 608 00:39:43,020 --> 00:39:46,540 S1: because these are hymns and carols that people have sung 609 00:39:46,540 --> 00:39:49,700 S1: through the ages and the stories behind them, and then 610 00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:54,100 S1: devotionals 43 of those songs in this book. It's a 611 00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:57,620 S1: hard cover. It's I call it a legacy book, because 612 00:39:57,620 --> 00:40:00,939 S1: you'll get it out every year and you'll read things 613 00:40:00,940 --> 00:40:03,100 S1: and you'll say, how did I not see that last year? Well, 614 00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:05,819 S1: you probably did. You just didn't remember it. Uh, let 615 00:40:05,820 --> 00:40:07,549 S1: me send you a copy of this. Give a gift 616 00:40:07,550 --> 00:40:10,630 S1: of any size and you'll keep the conversations going, especially 617 00:40:10,630 --> 00:40:14,150 S1: these incarnation conversations. You'll keep them going at the radio 618 00:40:14,150 --> 00:40:21,750 S1: backyard fence, call 8669553 or go to Chris Favorite. And 619 00:40:21,830 --> 00:40:23,989 S1: you'll see how you can support the program with a 620 00:40:23,989 --> 00:40:27,550 S1: year end gift right there. All right. So 34 years ago, 621 00:40:27,590 --> 00:40:30,469 S1: I've said it once, I'll say it 100 times today. 622 00:40:30,950 --> 00:40:34,950 S1: This album came out from Michael Card. And there is 623 00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:41,910 S1: a a Latin three Latin words vicit Agnus noster. Did 624 00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:42,790 S1: I get that right? 625 00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:45,070 S3: Yeah. And then two more. AOM. 626 00:40:46,550 --> 00:40:50,109 S1: AOM. Sycamore. Okay, so it took me. It took me 627 00:40:50,110 --> 00:40:53,230 S1: like five years to learn how to say hesed. And 628 00:40:53,230 --> 00:40:57,070 S1: now you've got me with Latin. Okay. So what? And 629 00:40:57,070 --> 00:41:03,870 S1: Joanne on Facebook says what? Tell me about Vicit Agnus noster. Ahem. 630 00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:08,960 S3: Ahem ahem. Sycamore. Sycamore. It's it's it's comes from like 631 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,960 S3: it's a 15th century motto from, uh, I think from 632 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:18,759 S3: the Moravian Church. It means conquer, you know. Victory. 633 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:19,520 S1: Victory. 634 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,160 S3: Okay. Uh, unus is the word for lamb. So our 635 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:28,799 S3: lamb has conquered. Let us him. Let us follow. Our 636 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,960 S3: lamb has conquered him. Let us follow. And and sometimes 637 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,759 S3: you'll see in, uh, some of the old iconography, you 638 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,200 S3: see a picture of it's it makes no sense. Whatever. 639 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,919 S3: It's a lamb with a, a staff with a banner 640 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,080 S3: over its shoulder with a flag on it. And you 641 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,200 S3: see that and you go, what in the world is that? 642 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,600 S3: And that's the news. That's the conquering lamb. Our lamb 643 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,839 S3: has conquered him. Let us follow. So that's in the 644 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,720 S3: in like in the 15th century, that, uh, that became 645 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,680 S3: a theme in the early church. Uh, Jesus is the 646 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,160 S3: the lamb who conquers. 647 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,520 S1: And the lamb who was slain. How could a lamb 648 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,640 S1: who was slain be the lamb who conquers? 649 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,480 S3: That's how he conquers is by being slain. He. Yeah. 650 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,440 S3: That's how he conquers. By being slain. Yeah. 651 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:25,400 S1: Um, the son of David. I've been praying this prayer 652 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:31,000 S1: of Bartimaeus. And, um, when he calls out to him 653 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,640 S1: by the road and he hears that Jesus the Nazarene 654 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,920 S1: is going by, and he says, Son of David, Jesus, 655 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,080 S1: have mercy on me. I think that's a really good prayer. 656 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:43,560 S1: The older I get, the more I think, you know, 657 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:48,360 S1: just just pray mercy, uh, pray grace on other people 658 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,239 S1: with all the things that we were mentioning going on 659 00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:54,600 S1: in the world, son of David, Jesus, have mercy on us. Yeah. Um, 660 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,000 S1: and I think that's a I think that's a, um, 661 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:02,279 S1: way to draw us closer to our own dependence on him, 662 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:03,000 S1: don't you? 663 00:43:03,050 --> 00:43:07,810 S3: Yeah. It's the only hope we have. You know, if 664 00:43:07,850 --> 00:43:11,610 S3: you think it's dependent on us getting it right, getting 665 00:43:11,610 --> 00:43:15,130 S3: our theology right, doing enough good things. You know, I 666 00:43:15,130 --> 00:43:19,489 S3: don't know, responding. And sometimes you get this impression, sometimes 667 00:43:19,489 --> 00:43:22,770 S3: that it's about you. You getting it right? I have. 668 00:43:22,810 --> 00:43:26,450 S3: I have no hope apart from the mercy of Jesus. 669 00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:33,410 S3: And the wonderful news is he again. I said before, 670 00:43:33,410 --> 00:43:35,250 S3: he loves you so much he'd rather die than live 671 00:43:35,250 --> 00:43:40,810 S3: without you. Mercy is is, uh, always there for us? 672 00:43:41,450 --> 00:43:43,810 S1: I forgot to play the song, so let me just 673 00:43:43,810 --> 00:43:49,210 S1: let you hear a little bit of this. Uh, Agnus noster. 674 00:43:50,130 --> 00:44:05,050 S4: You are. You are. You lost every human. said you? 675 00:44:08,330 --> 00:44:16,850 S2: Did Abraham himself. Not say God would provide a lamb 676 00:44:17,610 --> 00:44:26,290 S2: to take instead the punishment that should belong to man? 677 00:44:27,130 --> 00:44:35,690 S2: And so to humble shepherds. Was his glory first revealed. 678 00:44:36,730 --> 00:44:44,969 S2: And with his birth, a covenant made long ago was still. 679 00:44:47,930 --> 00:45:01,100 S4: Pretty dark. You v g are. Lost ever Himself. 680 00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:06,299 S1: Do you remember recording that and what it was like 681 00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:07,980 S1: when you recorded that, Michael? 682 00:45:09,219 --> 00:45:11,540 S3: Uh, yeah, I do. We were in London and it 683 00:45:11,540 --> 00:45:17,939 S3: was this huge choir. Uh, I'm trying to remember. Uh, yeah, 684 00:45:17,940 --> 00:45:19,500 S3: it was a big it was a big choir, and 685 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:24,379 S3: they they were a cathedral choir. And, um, um, and 686 00:45:24,380 --> 00:45:27,219 S3: I listen to that now and I think, yeah, you know, 687 00:45:27,260 --> 00:45:30,620 S3: that that was a big hit on Christian radio. You 688 00:45:30,620 --> 00:45:34,860 S3: can imagine. You can you can imagine the. 689 00:45:35,340 --> 00:45:36,980 S1: Look at the heart of that, though. 690 00:45:37,180 --> 00:45:38,500 S3: Look at I love that song. 691 00:45:38,540 --> 00:45:42,420 S1: Yeah. And and so worthwhile. There's so much that you 692 00:45:42,420 --> 00:45:44,739 S1: probably have done in your life, you know, that you 693 00:45:44,739 --> 00:45:46,580 S1: put your heart to that. You thought, oh, this is 694 00:45:46,580 --> 00:45:49,739 S1: going to go this way, and it didn't, or this 695 00:45:49,739 --> 00:45:52,020 S1: is not going to be, you know, responded to and 696 00:45:52,020 --> 00:45:54,219 S1: it did. It was you just had to put it 697 00:45:54,219 --> 00:45:56,140 S1: out there and allow it. Right. 698 00:45:56,460 --> 00:46:01,620 S3: Well, I think my music by and large, was responded 699 00:46:01,620 --> 00:46:04,500 S3: to by individual people. It wasn't. It was never really 700 00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:09,379 S3: responded to by the industry, not, you know, not like 701 00:46:09,420 --> 00:46:11,700 S3: I had hoped it might be. 702 00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:16,979 S1: Yeah. Well, you've written some songs that have stuck. I 703 00:46:17,020 --> 00:46:21,620 S1: know the several of them. El Shaddai was that that 704 00:46:21,620 --> 00:46:24,859 S1: was one that that really stuck. And I'm so glad. 705 00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:27,020 S3: That song was. That song was well known because Amy 706 00:46:27,060 --> 00:46:29,420 S3: Grant sang it. I mean, it's not a bad song, but. 707 00:46:29,460 --> 00:46:30,340 S1: Yeah, but. 708 00:46:30,540 --> 00:46:35,100 S3: But, uh, the song that I guess I'm proudest of 709 00:46:35,140 --> 00:46:38,020 S3: is Emmanuel, that there are a lot of. 710 00:46:38,260 --> 00:46:41,739 S1: That's on this album, that's on this album as well. 711 00:46:41,739 --> 00:46:44,299 S1: And so, uh, well, I'll end right there and pick 712 00:46:44,340 --> 00:46:47,740 S1: up the conversation next time. That's Michael Card. Chris Fabbri 713 00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:50,780 S1: lives for production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody 714 00:46:50,780 --> 00:46:53,340 S1: Bible Institute. Thanks a lot for listening.