1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,399 S1: If our guests today on Chris Fabry live are right, 2 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,960 S1: there's something or someone listening right now who doesn't know 3 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:15,840 S1: who they are. You know your name. You know your 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,960 S1: Social security number. Maybe you even know some of your 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,479 S1: family history, but you don't fully grasp who you are 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:27,360 S1: in Christ. Our guests want to remedy that, and we're 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:29,760 S1: going to try to do it in 54 minutes or less. 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:33,920 S1: They want you to know more about 21 attributes of 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:38,440 S1: your true identity in Christ. And the result of that 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,800 S1: could take you from sinful and shameful to blameless and beautiful. 11 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,440 S1: If the enemy is whispering accusations to you today, they 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,800 S1: could be accusations. Or if you are whispering them to yourself, 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,640 S1: that's my problem. Think about this. You can't destroy someone 14 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,210 S1: who knows who they are. And as you listen today, 15 00:01:00,250 --> 00:01:03,090 S1: think about this question what truth about your identity in 16 00:01:03,090 --> 00:01:08,530 S1: Christ is hardest for you to believe right now and 17 00:01:08,530 --> 00:01:11,089 S1: to live out every day? Let's talk about it straight 18 00:01:11,090 --> 00:01:13,330 S1: ahead on Chris Fabry. Live the program from the heart 19 00:01:13,330 --> 00:01:15,809 S1: to the heart for the heart. I'm so excited about today. 20 00:01:15,810 --> 00:01:19,410 S1: I'm just I'm stumbling over myself already because I think 21 00:01:19,410 --> 00:01:22,010 S1: this is this could be a game changer for somebody 22 00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:25,330 S1: who's listening. And that is why I chose this program 23 00:01:25,330 --> 00:01:28,490 S1: to re-air today. We are going back to November of 24 00:01:28,490 --> 00:01:33,170 S1: 2025 to hear a best of conversation today. So if 25 00:01:33,209 --> 00:01:37,810 S1: you hear dated information about holidays coming up, disregard that. 26 00:01:38,050 --> 00:01:41,090 S1: Don't call our live phone number. We're not taking your calls. 27 00:01:41,090 --> 00:01:43,729 S1: Let me thank our team though. Behind the scenes, Ryan 28 00:01:43,730 --> 00:01:48,090 S1: McConaughey is doing all things technical. Tricia McMillan is our producer. 29 00:01:48,090 --> 00:01:51,410 S1: So thankful for those two. And I'm also thankful for 30 00:01:51,410 --> 00:01:54,450 S1: our friends and partners who support this program. Are you 31 00:01:54,450 --> 00:01:56,650 S1: a friend or a partner? Have you given to Chris 32 00:01:56,690 --> 00:02:00,620 S1: Fabry live here in March. I'm thinking of my friend Colleen. 33 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:04,100 S1: If you've listened for any amount of time to this program, 34 00:02:04,100 --> 00:02:06,900 S1: you know we don't shy away from difficult topics like 35 00:02:06,900 --> 00:02:12,940 S1: suffering and struggle going through deep waters of depression or heartbreak. 36 00:02:13,300 --> 00:02:18,860 S1: Those things, I believe, deepen our human experience and make 37 00:02:18,860 --> 00:02:22,740 S1: us lean on God for strength and make us long 38 00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:26,220 S1: for heaven. And they force us to a life of 39 00:02:26,220 --> 00:02:28,780 S1: faith that says, Lord, I want to live fully no 40 00:02:28,780 --> 00:02:31,180 S1: matter what's going on. I want to live fully right here, 41 00:02:31,180 --> 00:02:34,739 S1: right now, with the strength you give. Even if I 42 00:02:34,740 --> 00:02:37,580 S1: walk through the valley of the shadow of death, that's 43 00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:42,100 S1: what Colleen has been facing. A terminal diagnosis. But her smile, 44 00:02:42,139 --> 00:02:45,179 S1: her voice, her heart has been a breath from heaven 45 00:02:45,180 --> 00:02:48,060 S1: to us. I think, even though she isn't there yet. 46 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:51,020 S1: Her new book, written in the light of her diagnosis, 47 00:02:51,020 --> 00:02:54,180 S1: but also in the hope she has in Jesus, is 48 00:02:54,180 --> 00:02:57,830 S1: our thank you right now. It's titled On Our way home. 49 00:02:57,830 --> 00:03:01,350 S1: Her words will encourage you, I guarantee you, and you 50 00:03:01,350 --> 00:03:04,030 S1: will know that your gift is helping us continue these 51 00:03:04,030 --> 00:03:07,910 S1: conversations at the radio backyard fence. Be as generous as 52 00:03:07,910 --> 00:03:11,950 S1: you can here in March. Click through today. Chris Fabry, Livorno, 53 00:03:12,790 --> 00:03:17,510 S1: Chris Fabbri, Livorno or there is a phone number you 54 00:03:17,510 --> 00:03:27,190 S1: can call today 86695438669532279. There is someone you know who 55 00:03:27,190 --> 00:03:30,070 S1: will need this book, need the encouragement and the hope 56 00:03:30,070 --> 00:03:35,150 S1: that Colleen has and that someone might be you. Thank 57 00:03:35,150 --> 00:03:39,470 S1: you for your support of the radio backyard fence. All right, 58 00:03:39,470 --> 00:03:43,110 S1: ladies and gentlemen, get ready to welcome Doctor Foster and 59 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:47,350 S1: Doctor Williams. Doctor JP foster serves as senior pastor at 60 00:03:47,350 --> 00:03:50,190 S1: Faithful Central Bible Church, one of the largest, most influential 61 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:55,230 S1: congregations in Southern California. His messages have impacted thousands, both 62 00:03:55,270 --> 00:03:58,840 S1: in the Los Angeles area and around the world, as 63 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,720 S1: he encourages people to build their lives on the foundation 64 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:04,760 S1: of God, God's Word. He spent the past seven years 65 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:10,160 S1: teaching courses in biblical interpretation, spiritual formation, and hermeneutics at 66 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,040 S1: Biola and Talbot School of Theology. Doctor foster, welcome to 67 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,520 S1: the program. How are you doing today? 68 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,479 S2: I'm doing well, Chris, how are you? 69 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,200 S1: I'm great and I'm much better. Having met you and 70 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,960 S1: Doctor Matt Williams, who is New Testament professor and director 71 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,280 S1: of accelerated master's programs in viola. No, he's not just 72 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,120 S1: happy with master's program. He's got to accelerate things. He 73 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,440 S1: spent six, six years as a missionary professor to the 74 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,640 S1: Spanish Bible Institute and Seminary in Barcelona, taught at Trinity 75 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,480 S1: Evangelical Divinity School, Trinity International University, North Park University and Seminary. 76 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,080 S1: Teaches and preaches at various churches and conference throughout the 77 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,000 S1: US and Spain. I'll bet he speaks Spanish too. Matt, 78 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,099 S1: do you speak Spanish? 79 00:04:55,779 --> 00:05:00,380 S3: Yeah, I actually taught in Spanish in Barcelona. Look at you. Yeah. 80 00:05:00,420 --> 00:05:03,180 S1: You could translate your own book into Spanish then, couldn't you? 81 00:05:03,500 --> 00:05:07,260 S3: I'm actually. I have a team. We've translated 62 different 82 00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:10,380 S3: theological books into Spanish. That's fantastic. 83 00:05:10,420 --> 00:05:12,900 S1: Yeah. Oh, this is going to be fun, folks, because. 84 00:05:12,940 --> 00:05:16,140 S1: Because the title of the book, our featured resource today, 85 00:05:16,140 --> 00:05:20,020 S1: if you go to chris.org, click through today's information finding 86 00:05:20,060 --> 00:05:26,779 S1: freedom in Jesus. The 21 attributes of your identity in Christ. 87 00:05:27,060 --> 00:05:30,539 S1: And as I read this, as I, as I went 88 00:05:30,540 --> 00:05:33,220 S1: through it, I thought, okay, here's, here's how I would 89 00:05:33,220 --> 00:05:35,740 S1: try to sum this up. How do I get the 90 00:05:35,740 --> 00:05:38,460 S1: truth that I believe that I've read in the Bible? 91 00:05:38,740 --> 00:05:40,420 S1: How do I get the truth that I believe from 92 00:05:40,420 --> 00:05:43,420 S1: my head to my heart? How do I not simply 93 00:05:43,420 --> 00:05:48,020 S1: understand the concept, for example, of God's love? But how 94 00:05:48,020 --> 00:05:51,780 S1: do I live loved? Is that kind of the idea? 95 00:05:51,820 --> 00:05:52,979 S1: First you. JP. 96 00:05:54,150 --> 00:05:55,630 S2: Yes. Yes it is. 97 00:05:56,910 --> 00:05:57,830 S1: Okay. Expand on. 98 00:05:57,870 --> 00:05:58,190 S2: That. 99 00:05:58,430 --> 00:05:58,830 S1: Tell me. 100 00:05:58,830 --> 00:05:59,150 S3: More. 101 00:05:59,830 --> 00:06:03,070 S2: No, I'm messing with, you know, the the book has been, um, 102 00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:07,549 S2: an incredible blessing. Um, Matt and I have taught this 103 00:06:07,589 --> 00:06:10,510 S2: with students and parishioners in our church, and I think 104 00:06:10,510 --> 00:06:16,110 S2: there's a massive, um, difference between having information and transformation. 105 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:18,790 S2: I think when you read scripture or you read a book, 106 00:06:18,790 --> 00:06:21,910 S2: there's information. Uh, we tried our best to design this 107 00:06:21,910 --> 00:06:24,789 S2: book in a way that when you understand who you are, 108 00:06:24,830 --> 00:06:28,190 S2: you'll know who you are. And so we've worked really 109 00:06:28,190 --> 00:06:31,950 S2: hard to say, um, to feel the, the biblical literacy 110 00:06:31,990 --> 00:06:34,309 S2: gap where so many Christians, if you ask them today 111 00:06:34,310 --> 00:06:37,229 S2: who they are in Christ, you ask them, what does 112 00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:40,670 S2: it mean to be saved? Um, sometimes it's emotive and 113 00:06:40,670 --> 00:06:43,830 S2: sometimes they just don't have an adequate answer. And so 114 00:06:43,870 --> 00:06:46,589 S2: with this book, we've tried our best to dive into 115 00:06:46,589 --> 00:06:49,430 S2: what are the some key attributes about our identity in 116 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:53,720 S2: Christ that we can overcome negative self-talk struggles we may 117 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,760 S2: have in our faith and our journey. And just to 118 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:57,880 S2: help us to be more confident so we can actually 119 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,359 S2: live out and walk out this faith. Scripture says, uh, 120 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,040 S2: not to just be hearers of the word, but doers also. 121 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,760 S2: And so Matt and I, he's an incredible New Testament scholar. 122 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,360 S2: We worked and wrestled. I think we had over almost 123 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,720 S2: 60 different terms, but we came down to 21. And 124 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,960 S2: these are the ones I think are extremely transformational for 125 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,440 S2: any season you're in your life, from a 19 year 126 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,320 S2: old to someone who was 87 years old, um, was 127 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:25,080 S2: blessed by what the Lord has been doing through this book. 128 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,680 S1: And the other thing that goes in there is the 129 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,160 S1: roller coaster of feelings, because so much of today's world 130 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,280 S1: is based on, well, how do I feel about this? 131 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,520 S1: How do I feel forgiven today? Well, no, I don't 132 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,760 S1: feel so. It must not be. And the feelings, you know, 133 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,680 S1: are part of us. How we're made. Emotions, our makeup. 134 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,200 S1: That's how God made us. But if we let our 135 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,600 S1: feelings lead us and guide us around, we can end 136 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,810 S1: up in some really bad places. Matt, respond to that. 137 00:07:53,730 --> 00:07:57,250 S3: Yeah. That's true. Um, my wife and I actually took 138 00:07:57,250 --> 00:08:02,410 S3: a test when we were engaged and she. She's a 95% feeler. 139 00:08:02,970 --> 00:08:07,330 S3: I'm a 5% feeler. So we've kind of worn off 140 00:08:07,330 --> 00:08:11,450 S3: on each other over the years. We're kind of more 5050. Um, 141 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:16,170 S3: but yeah, working with students over, you know, nearly three decades, uh, 142 00:08:16,170 --> 00:08:19,570 S3: the feelings are a big thing, but we can actually 143 00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:23,370 S3: change those feelings if we think the right things, but 144 00:08:23,370 --> 00:08:25,809 S3: we have to think the right things over and over 145 00:08:25,810 --> 00:08:28,930 S3: and over again. So, um, what we try to do 146 00:08:29,010 --> 00:08:31,970 S3: in the book is we gave exercises and one that 147 00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:36,170 S3: my students have really found helpful is we do breathing 148 00:08:36,170 --> 00:08:40,530 S3: exercises of the truth of Scripture. So, you know, a 149 00:08:40,530 --> 00:08:44,570 S3: lot of counselors and even the Navy Seals say, you know, 150 00:08:44,610 --> 00:08:49,130 S3: you should do breathing. It helps you with anxiety and, um, 151 00:08:49,380 --> 00:08:52,140 S3: you know, neuroplasticity to think the right things and then 152 00:08:52,140 --> 00:08:55,500 S3: feel the right things. Well, I don't think we should 153 00:08:55,500 --> 00:08:59,699 S3: count to four. That doesn't help us in understanding our 154 00:08:59,700 --> 00:09:03,739 S3: identity in Christ. So. Uh, JP and I put words 155 00:09:03,740 --> 00:09:07,740 S3: with all of these. Uh, so instead of counting to four, 156 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:12,220 S3: you know, like for redeemed, we're talking about bought with 157 00:09:12,220 --> 00:09:15,579 S3: a price, you breathe that in, bought with a price 158 00:09:15,860 --> 00:09:21,580 S3: set free forever. And, uh, we're breathing these truths over 159 00:09:21,580 --> 00:09:24,060 S3: and over and over again. And what we've seen, because 160 00:09:24,059 --> 00:09:27,220 S3: we're both using this text this semester in our class, 161 00:09:27,220 --> 00:09:31,219 S3: even though it just came out, is that there's a change, 162 00:09:31,220 --> 00:09:35,380 S3: not just in thinking, but in the feelings that come along. 163 00:09:35,380 --> 00:09:38,420 S3: Feelings are kind of the caboose, right? Yes. If you 164 00:09:38,420 --> 00:09:41,820 S3: think the right thing, eventually your feelings will come along 165 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:42,420 S3: with you. 166 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:45,100 S1: Well, isn't it the way love is? If you if 167 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:48,110 S1: you love someone you commend your love to? I mean, 168 00:09:48,110 --> 00:09:49,949 S1: you can have the feelings for them, but what if 169 00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:51,590 S1: you don't have the feeling? And I got to love 170 00:09:51,590 --> 00:09:53,710 S1: my neighbor and I don't want to. You start to 171 00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:56,310 S1: act like you love. You know, you start to move 172 00:09:56,350 --> 00:10:00,110 S1: toward them, your heart toward them. And then you realize 173 00:10:00,230 --> 00:10:02,830 S1: you wake up one day. I really like this person 174 00:10:02,870 --> 00:10:05,230 S1: and I really care about this person. Right? 175 00:10:05,590 --> 00:10:07,630 S3: Yeah. That's right. Yeah. 176 00:10:07,670 --> 00:10:12,390 S2: And feelings are also fleeting. Feelings are fleeting. And even 177 00:10:12,390 --> 00:10:14,230 S2: though you may be feeling a certain way, it doesn't 178 00:10:14,230 --> 00:10:18,630 S2: necessarily mean that it's true. Right. And I think when 179 00:10:18,630 --> 00:10:22,709 S2: we couple that with Scripture, it helps us to take 180 00:10:22,750 --> 00:10:26,189 S2: in and be transformed by the truth of what God's 181 00:10:26,190 --> 00:10:28,230 S2: Word says. And I think that's what's been so powerful. 182 00:10:28,230 --> 00:10:30,910 S2: I had a student who told me that they were 183 00:10:31,429 --> 00:10:34,390 S2: they just felt out of place. And when they read 184 00:10:34,390 --> 00:10:38,790 S2: through what it means to be forgiven, it began to 185 00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:41,310 S2: transform their life. And I think sometimes people give their 186 00:10:41,309 --> 00:10:44,470 S2: life to Christ. They're wrestling with their past and some 187 00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:50,960 S2: of the, um, Baggage, trauma or sins that they've committed. 188 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,120 S2: And when they come to Christ, they're wrestling with questions like, 189 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,800 S2: Does God really forgive me? And I think when they 190 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,960 S2: understand the truth, when the student went through the truth 191 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,880 S2: of what forgiven actually means, it was liberating. Absolutely liberating. 192 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,760 S2: And so we've seen the fruit of, of the transformation 193 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,119 S2: process of getting the information and turning it into transformation 194 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,240 S2: into actually living it out. And as Matt said, sometimes 195 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,920 S2: it's the repetition of when the feeling comes that I 196 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,600 S2: don't feel forgiven or I feel guilty or I feel shameful, 197 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,640 S2: then reminding yourself what God's Word says and then taking 198 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,880 S2: in that truth when those moments happen. And we're seeing 199 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,720 S2: significant transformation throughout that process. And I also share this, Chris. 200 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,240 S2: We've noticed that when people accept being forgiven, they're more 201 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:39,200 S2: willing to forgive. So love the people, love more forgiven people, forgive, 202 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:42,480 S2: bless people, bless others. And we're seeing this over and 203 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:43,079 S2: over again. 204 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:44,040 S3: Yes. 205 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,250 S1: How many times have you heard that? It's like someone 206 00:11:46,250 --> 00:11:49,850 S1: forgives someone and we've had this. You know, in a 207 00:11:49,890 --> 00:11:53,450 S1: big way. As far as upfront way, you know, I 208 00:11:53,570 --> 00:11:56,130 S1: forgive you. And other people will say, well, I could 209 00:11:56,130 --> 00:11:59,650 S1: never do that. I could never, I never could conceive 210 00:11:59,650 --> 00:12:02,090 S1: of someone who did that to, you know, my family 211 00:12:02,210 --> 00:12:06,010 S1: member of forgiving that other person. And that's and I 212 00:12:06,050 --> 00:12:10,010 S1: get that. Um, but I also realize that's a peek 213 00:12:10,010 --> 00:12:15,290 S1: into your soul, uh, the forgiveness that you've received yourself. 214 00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:16,890 S1: So let me call a time out. We're going to 215 00:12:16,890 --> 00:12:19,490 S1: take a break when I come back, you've heard a 216 00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:24,530 S1: couple of the 21 here in finding freedom in Jesus. 217 00:12:24,570 --> 00:12:27,929 S1: Doctor J p foster doctor Matt Williams are joining us today. 218 00:12:28,170 --> 00:12:30,890 S1: I'm going to ask them of all the attributes of 219 00:12:30,890 --> 00:12:33,970 S1: the identity of their identity in Christ, which is the 220 00:12:33,970 --> 00:12:37,570 S1: one they've struggled with most through the years. And my 221 00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:40,850 S1: guess is there's somebody who needs to hear what they've 222 00:12:40,850 --> 00:12:44,860 S1: been struggling with because you're you've been struggling with the 223 00:12:44,860 --> 00:12:49,260 S1: same thing. Go to Chris for our featured resource, Finding 224 00:12:49,300 --> 00:13:03,300 S1: Freedom in Jesus. More straight ahead. Two guests for you today, 225 00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:08,059 S1: two doctors Matt Williams, New Testament professor at Biola. JP foster, 226 00:13:08,059 --> 00:13:11,780 S1: senior pastor of Faithful Central Bible Church in Los Angeles. 227 00:13:12,220 --> 00:13:15,780 S1: And they have come up with 21 attributes of your 228 00:13:15,780 --> 00:13:18,940 S1: identity in Christ. And each of these, I mean, you 229 00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:20,620 S1: could you could take this and you could read them 230 00:13:21,020 --> 00:13:24,300 S1: one in every day for 21 days. You could do 231 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:27,300 S1: a study of these one a week for 21 weeks, 232 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:30,900 S1: which I would, I would prefer because you get to 233 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:33,500 S1: dig in a little bit deeper, or you could do 234 00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:36,660 S1: this in a, in a study, in a small group study. 235 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:40,980 S1: It just is, uh, it's freeing. And that's why they 236 00:13:41,020 --> 00:13:44,470 S1: titled the book Finding freedom in Jesus. You're going to 237 00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:48,150 S1: hear more about that today. If you go to chris.org, 238 00:13:48,190 --> 00:13:49,990 S1: we have a link. And if you have a question 239 00:13:49,990 --> 00:13:56,150 S1: or comment (877) 548-3675. Okay. The first question then is personal. 240 00:13:56,390 --> 00:13:59,030 S1: Of all of these attributes, I want you to choose 241 00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:03,830 S1: one that you have struggled with most through the years. JP, 242 00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:05,229 S1: let's start with you first. 243 00:14:06,750 --> 00:14:08,750 S2: The one I struggle with the most, Chris, I just 244 00:14:08,750 --> 00:14:12,390 S2: preached on Sunday, which is holy that over the years, 245 00:14:12,429 --> 00:14:14,429 S2: especially when I initially gave my life to Christ, I 246 00:14:14,429 --> 00:14:19,470 S2: think the term holy has been the hardest. And the 247 00:14:19,470 --> 00:14:21,630 S2: reason is because when I first gave my life to Christ, Chris, 248 00:14:21,630 --> 00:14:24,510 S2: I didn't really grow up in church. So for me, 249 00:14:25,270 --> 00:14:28,350 S2: understanding what it meant to be a believer, what it 250 00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:31,590 S2: meant to, um, accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, 251 00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:34,830 S2: the context that I was, I was in, as I 252 00:14:34,870 --> 00:14:37,790 S2: gave my life to Christ, I felt like no one 253 00:14:37,790 --> 00:14:39,750 S2: around me in the church at the time ever had 254 00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:43,050 S2: any problems. It was almost like it was Pleasantville. And 255 00:14:43,050 --> 00:14:47,370 S2: everyone around me just wasn't wasn't struggling with anything. But 256 00:14:47,370 --> 00:14:50,130 S2: the way that the context I was in, Chris, it 257 00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:53,330 S2: made it feel like holiness was a light switch, that 258 00:14:53,330 --> 00:14:55,450 S2: the moment you gave your life to Christ, you know, 259 00:14:55,490 --> 00:14:57,050 S2: you'll have no more problems. You can take all your 260 00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:58,970 S2: problems away. You don't have to worry about anything. And 261 00:14:58,970 --> 00:15:01,970 S2: then I wondered, so that means holiness is a light switch. 262 00:15:01,970 --> 00:15:03,810 S2: Like you give your life to Christ and all of 263 00:15:03,810 --> 00:15:07,290 S2: a sudden everything is perfect. Then I noticed that that 264 00:15:07,290 --> 00:15:11,010 S2: that wasn't happening and I was struggling and wrestling with, um, 265 00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:15,250 S2: stuff that I would, I had dealt with over the years. And, um, 266 00:15:15,290 --> 00:15:17,370 S2: it was, I wasn't really, I was wrestling with my 267 00:15:17,370 --> 00:15:19,290 S2: relationship with God. I was wondering if I was out 268 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:21,890 S2: of place, you know, am I really saved? AM I, 269 00:15:21,930 --> 00:15:24,930 S2: you know, what's going on? And I started reading the 270 00:15:24,930 --> 00:15:27,490 S2: Bible on my own. And the more I studied, the 271 00:15:27,490 --> 00:15:30,770 S2: more I read. I started realizing, um, what the, what 272 00:15:30,810 --> 00:15:33,810 S2: scripture means when, when God says we're holy and how 273 00:15:33,810 --> 00:15:37,290 S2: we receive holiness or righteousness or justification by faith in Jesus. 274 00:15:37,450 --> 00:15:41,420 S2: And so Chris, for me, Understand. I now can simplify 275 00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:46,740 S2: or synthesize holiness into two categories his essence, God's essence, 276 00:15:46,740 --> 00:15:49,820 S2: the essence of God. God is holy. Scripture says, be holy, 277 00:15:49,820 --> 00:15:52,700 S2: for I am holy. And then it is a life 278 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:55,460 S2: that's devoted or dedicated to his presence. So I have 279 00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:58,900 S2: to understand that God is in his essence, his nature. 280 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:03,100 S2: He's a holy God. He's holy. And so, um, holiness 281 00:16:03,140 --> 00:16:06,100 S2: isn't what he does. Holiness is who he is. And 282 00:16:06,100 --> 00:16:11,180 S2: then through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, through my, my salvation, my, 283 00:16:11,220 --> 00:16:14,940 S2: my faith in him, I then receive righteousness and I'm 284 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:18,060 S2: in right standing before God. And so I realized that 285 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,620 S2: what is what is holiness exactly? Well, Scripture will reveal 286 00:16:21,620 --> 00:16:24,100 S2: to us and theologically it is to be set apart 287 00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:27,140 S2: from and set apart for. And I think in the 288 00:16:27,140 --> 00:16:29,780 S2: church context, for me, I was always wrestling with it 289 00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:32,820 S2: was holiness was you do this, holiness was you do this, 290 00:16:32,820 --> 00:16:35,060 S2: you behave a certain way. And there is an aspect 291 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:39,870 S2: of being set apart from that. I should be, I should, 292 00:16:39,910 --> 00:16:44,670 S2: I should, I should engage in sin, but in my humanity, 293 00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:47,190 S2: I'm going to wrestle with temptation. I'm going to wrestle with. 294 00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:49,550 S2: And I'm not trying to justify sin. What I'm saying 295 00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:51,670 S2: is that in my humanity, I'm going to wrestle with 296 00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:54,230 S2: temptation and sin. But what is. What does it mean 297 00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:57,430 S2: to be holy? Holy means to be sanctified, new Testament 298 00:16:57,430 --> 00:17:01,030 S2: word or to be set apart. And so even simplifying 299 00:17:01,070 --> 00:17:04,790 S2: understanding of Scripture reveals to us that we must be 300 00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:09,310 S2: set apart from the world, but set apart for God's purposes, 301 00:17:09,390 --> 00:17:12,950 S2: set apart for God's glory, set apart to be devoted 302 00:17:13,150 --> 00:17:16,230 S2: to God. And I think when I understood the concept 303 00:17:16,230 --> 00:17:22,790 S2: of sanctification, that I am sanctified, positioned in Christ. When 304 00:17:22,790 --> 00:17:28,230 S2: I receive him, I am progressively now being transformed into 305 00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:31,629 S2: the image of Christ, which is progressive. So I'm, I'm 306 00:17:31,670 --> 00:17:34,830 S2: be you be. We are be being transformed. It's in 307 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:38,600 S2: a continual continuous tense. Yes. And then when he returns, 308 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,360 S2: I'll be glorified. So I'll be perfected. So there's this 309 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:46,199 S2: positional sanctification. There's this progressive sanctification that we're living in now, 310 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,040 S2: and then we'll be perfected when Christ returns. That was Chris. 311 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,760 S2: That was so liberating for me because it made me 312 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,440 S2: realize that every single day I wake up, Paul says, 313 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,239 S2: I die daily. Jesus says, if you want to be 314 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,919 S2: my disciple and Chris, I am, I want to, I 315 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:03,480 S2: want to be a follower and a learner of Jesus. 316 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,000 S2: That means I must deny myself. I must pick up 317 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,760 S2: my cross and I must follow him daily. So holy 318 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,080 S2: was the hardest one for me. I wrestled with it 319 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,320 S2: for a long time, but because I didn't really fully 320 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,120 S2: understand what God meant in His Word. When he says 321 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,280 S2: that we're holy. And so me receiving, I think Hebrews 322 00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:25,440 S2: 1010 says that because the one who was called us 323 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,520 S2: is holy, we then should be holy in all that 324 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,080 S2: we do. And so through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. 325 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,320 S2: And so I'm forgiven for my sins. From the sacrifice 326 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,890 S2: of Jesus. I have received forgiveness and cleansing of my 327 00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:41,490 S2: sins from the sacrifice of Jesus. But I'm also holy 328 00:18:41,490 --> 00:18:43,970 S2: because of the sacrifice of Jesus. I am set apart 329 00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:47,010 S2: from this world, and my life is devoted to God. 330 00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:48,850 S2: So holy is the one that I wrestle with the most. 331 00:18:48,850 --> 00:18:51,970 S2: But Chris, I'm liberated because I'm holy. 332 00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:55,330 S1: You're free, you're free. Okay, so here's how I process 333 00:18:55,330 --> 00:18:58,290 S1: what you just said. So much of the problem, and 334 00:18:58,290 --> 00:19:01,490 S1: I identify with everything you've just talked about. So much 335 00:19:01,490 --> 00:19:04,530 S1: of the problem is comparison. You know, I see somebody 336 00:19:04,530 --> 00:19:07,129 S1: else who seems holier than me, so I'm looking around 337 00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:10,130 S1: and comparing myself with somebody else, which is not a 338 00:19:10,170 --> 00:19:13,050 S1: not a good thing to do, but it's all about performance. 339 00:19:13,050 --> 00:19:16,530 S1: If I perform, then I am holy. If I don't perform, 340 00:19:16,530 --> 00:19:19,770 S1: then I'm not. If I sin, I'm not holy. If 341 00:19:19,770 --> 00:19:21,850 S1: I if I do the right thing, or at least 342 00:19:21,850 --> 00:19:23,850 S1: what I think is the right thing, then you know, 343 00:19:23,890 --> 00:19:26,850 S1: I'm getting closer there, but I never really get there. 344 00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:31,410 S1: And that's why the imputation of the righteousness of Christ 345 00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:34,740 S1: on us and we don't use that word impute, Good, 346 00:19:35,100 --> 00:19:38,820 S1: but it's true. This is the gift that he has 347 00:19:38,820 --> 00:19:41,219 S1: given you. Walk in it. Right? 348 00:19:41,260 --> 00:19:46,980 S2: Yes, yes. Yeah, that's absolutely correct. And there's there's freedom 349 00:19:46,980 --> 00:19:48,419 S2: in understanding that. 350 00:19:49,580 --> 00:19:52,939 S1: Freedom. I love it. Okay. Before I go to you, Matt, 351 00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:55,300 S1: I want to go to Skeeter. Skeeter is on the line. 352 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:58,060 S1: Skeeter does what we just talked about. Does that sing 353 00:19:58,060 --> 00:19:58,820 S1: in your soul? 354 00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:06,980 S4: Man, that guy just read my email. Um, because. Because 355 00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:10,660 S4: what I struggle with the most is not the. Before 356 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:16,180 S4: I came to Christ, it's the after how often I have, like, 357 00:20:16,180 --> 00:20:19,619 S4: why did you do that? Why? It's, it's that's what 358 00:20:19,619 --> 00:20:24,340 S4: has been the struggle for me. Um, and what he 359 00:20:24,340 --> 00:20:28,700 S4: just said is realizing that I have the righteousness of Christ. 360 00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:33,419 S4: That's I mean, yes, what he just said. Uh, you 361 00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:36,190 S4: have a camp meeting on it. You know what I mean? 362 00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:36,949 S2: Wow. 363 00:20:37,950 --> 00:20:43,070 S4: So it's, uh. I've just enjoyed listening. It's like I 364 00:20:43,070 --> 00:20:46,910 S4: really didn't need to call. He just. He just voiced 365 00:20:47,030 --> 00:20:48,390 S4: my same struggle. 366 00:20:48,750 --> 00:20:51,070 S1: Bingo. Skeeter. Hang on. I want to send you a 367 00:20:51,070 --> 00:20:53,110 S1: copy of this. We're going to figure out some some 368 00:20:53,109 --> 00:20:55,310 S1: way to get it to you. Send it on the 369 00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:58,229 S1: Pony Express, because I think it's going to do the 370 00:20:58,230 --> 00:21:01,230 S1: same thing in other people's lives. It's like you've struggled 371 00:21:01,230 --> 00:21:06,590 S1: with this or the whole forgiveness angle. Uh, for before 372 00:21:06,590 --> 00:21:09,710 S1: you were a Christian or after and can am I 373 00:21:09,710 --> 00:21:13,830 S1: really forgiven here or do I have to perform? So 374 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:16,750 S1: that takes me. So hang on, Skeeter, we'll get your information. 375 00:21:16,750 --> 00:21:19,709 S1: That takes me to you. Doctor Williams. Matt, uh, what's 376 00:21:19,710 --> 00:21:21,470 S1: the one that you have struggled with? 377 00:21:22,390 --> 00:21:24,710 S3: Yeah. So I knew that JP was going to say 378 00:21:24,710 --> 00:21:26,830 S3: Holy because I was at his church Sunday when he 379 00:21:26,830 --> 00:21:29,910 S3: talked about that. Um, but you know, that's, I think 380 00:21:29,910 --> 00:21:32,640 S3: that's the hardest one for all of us, you know, 381 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,400 S3: we we get that God's holy. And we get that 382 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,360 S3: the seraphim are surrounding his throne room and they're crying, Holy, holy, holy. 383 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:46,480 S3: But see me, I'm holy. Um, yeah, so JP did 384 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,240 S3: a great job of explaining that, but another one that's 385 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,879 S3: really difficult for me is the term loved that I 386 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,440 S3: am loved. So I wrote in the book that when 387 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,880 S3: I grew up, my dad didn't tell me that he 388 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,280 S3: loved me. I kind of figured that he did based 389 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,760 S3: on his actions, but not always because he was also, 390 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,600 S3: you know, a little bit angry. And so I didn't 391 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,880 S3: have that stability of knowing that somebody in my corner 392 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,440 S3: and somebody loves me no matter what I do. And 393 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,960 S3: so again, we get back to the performance issue, right? 394 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,280 S3: I felt like I had to do enough in order 395 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,080 S3: to be loved, not just by my parents, but by 396 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:33,890 S3: everybody around me. And boy that that can cause some issues, 397 00:22:33,890 --> 00:22:38,490 S3: can it? Um, so I'm, I'm married to a woman that, 398 00:22:38,530 --> 00:22:40,690 S3: you know, she's been through the highs and the lows 399 00:22:40,690 --> 00:22:43,129 S3: of my life and she loves me no matter what. 400 00:22:43,609 --> 00:22:46,489 S3: But when I'm out and about, I mean, even on 401 00:22:46,490 --> 00:22:49,810 S3: this radio show, there's an element of me that, gosh, 402 00:22:49,810 --> 00:22:54,530 S3: I better perform well or I'm not going to be accepted. 403 00:22:54,530 --> 00:22:57,650 S3: I'm not going to be loved by people. And so, 404 00:22:57,850 --> 00:23:02,810 S3: you know, in this term, I am loved. The next 405 00:23:02,810 --> 00:23:05,250 S3: term after is I'm known, I'm known by God and 406 00:23:05,250 --> 00:23:08,490 S3: I'm loved by God no matter what. Now, that doesn't 407 00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:11,570 S3: give me free rein to go do whatever I want, 408 00:23:11,930 --> 00:23:14,930 S3: but to know that he's going to love me. Say, 409 00:23:14,970 --> 00:23:19,490 S3: you know, hey, Matt, you messed up. Let's keep going, okay? 410 00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:22,770 S3: All right. Somebody in my corner, somebody has got my back. 411 00:23:23,010 --> 00:23:26,770 S3: And that makes all the difference in the world. Yes. 412 00:23:27,369 --> 00:23:31,030 S1: Well, and that and that. Those two together, you know. 413 00:23:31,109 --> 00:23:35,149 S1: Probably for me is the same thing that I've struggled with. Okay. 414 00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:38,550 S1: I can I can believe that God loved me enough 415 00:23:38,550 --> 00:23:42,190 S1: to commend his love to me, that while I was 416 00:23:42,190 --> 00:23:45,910 S1: yet a sinner, Christ died in my place. But it 417 00:23:45,910 --> 00:23:50,310 S1: feels like it can be separated from the personal, you know? 418 00:23:50,350 --> 00:23:53,669 S1: It's like there's all those sinners out there that need saving, 419 00:23:53,710 --> 00:23:56,430 S1: and I'm going to. God's going to do this for 420 00:23:56,430 --> 00:24:00,510 S1: all of them. But what he did in Christ was 421 00:24:00,510 --> 00:24:04,030 S1: made it personal, just like of the raising of Lazarus 422 00:24:04,030 --> 00:24:06,750 S1: and anything that happened there, you know, the miracles that 423 00:24:06,750 --> 00:24:10,869 S1: he did. He loves you enough to give himself for you, 424 00:24:10,869 --> 00:24:14,109 S1: but he also knows you. Now, how could anybody who 425 00:24:14,109 --> 00:24:16,790 S1: knows me all the way down to the heart level 426 00:24:17,550 --> 00:24:20,350 S1: love me like that? It's very hard for me to 427 00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:22,910 S1: wrap my head around because I'm very much in that 428 00:24:22,910 --> 00:24:26,030 S1: performance mindset. If I do the right thing, if I 429 00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:30,639 S1: toe the line, if I'm, you know, do all of those, uh, achieve? 430 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,679 S1: Then I'm going to be loved. Then I'm going to 431 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,640 S1: be known and seen. But what if I mess up 432 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:40,200 S1: and and you're saying that that is. Well, and then 433 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,720 S1: it goes to beautiful of finish your thought there, Matt. 434 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:43,520 S1: We'll take a break. 435 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,439 S3: Well, I mean, it's from the very beginning, right? Adam 436 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,800 S3: and Eve, what did they do as soon as they 437 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:53,439 S3: messed up, they hid. And we do the same thing, right? 438 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,040 S3: We we don't want to be known by people. And 439 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,399 S3: so we hide the difficult things and people never really 440 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,639 S3: get to know the real us. And because of that, 441 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,879 S3: we can't, you know, iron sharpens iron. We can't really 442 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,160 S3: talk to people and go, okay, I'm messed up. You're 443 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:16,080 S3: messed up. Let's talk about this and become more sanctified 444 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,200 S3: and holy together in this. 445 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,760 S1: All right, here's my guess is you're listening today. You're 446 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:25,560 S1: looking at the radio or your device, and you're saying, 447 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,330 S1: how did these guys know? How do they know that 448 00:25:28,330 --> 00:25:31,609 S1: this is what I'm dealing with? Maybe there's shame and guilt. 449 00:25:31,609 --> 00:25:33,770 S1: We're going to talk about that coming up in our 450 00:25:33,770 --> 00:25:36,490 S1: next segment, but I want you to go to the website. 451 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:39,210 S1: You can find out more about JP Foster and Matt 452 00:25:39,210 --> 00:25:43,770 S1: Williams finding freedom in Jesus. Don't miss this. This is 453 00:25:43,770 --> 00:25:46,810 S1: a best of broadcast of Chris Fabry live. And there's 454 00:25:46,810 --> 00:26:05,690 S1: more coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio. Today's Chris 455 00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:09,010 S1: Fabry Live is a best of broadcast. Don't call us today. 456 00:26:09,010 --> 00:26:14,090 S1: Disregard information coming up about the Dodgers winning the World Series, 457 00:26:14,450 --> 00:26:19,369 S1: because this program happened back in November. But I wanted 458 00:26:19,369 --> 00:26:22,449 S1: to reiterate here today, my guess is there's somebody listening 459 00:26:22,450 --> 00:26:25,609 S1: right now, and we are speaking to your heart and 460 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:31,060 S1: your soul, because we're talking about your identity in Christ, 461 00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:35,700 S1: not simply as a theological proposition, not just something for 462 00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:38,659 S1: you to think about in your head and to say, oh, 463 00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:41,540 S1: that's nice to know and to go on, but to 464 00:26:41,580 --> 00:26:44,219 S1: get it from here right in your. I'm pointing to 465 00:26:44,220 --> 00:26:49,100 S1: my temple down to here, pointing to my heart. Right. 466 00:26:49,140 --> 00:26:50,700 S1: You got to get it from your head to your 467 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:54,980 S1: heart so that you live. What you say you believe. 468 00:26:55,020 --> 00:26:57,859 S1: You don't just have knowledge about who God has made 469 00:26:57,859 --> 00:27:01,580 S1: you to be. You are empowered to live it out, 470 00:27:01,580 --> 00:27:04,860 S1: to work it out. And that's what our guests are 471 00:27:04,859 --> 00:27:08,979 S1: talking about in their book, Finding Freedom in Jesus. The 472 00:27:08,980 --> 00:27:14,100 S1: 21 Attributes of Your Identity in Christ by Doctor Matt Williams, 473 00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:18,540 S1: who has taught New Testament at Biola and at the 474 00:27:18,580 --> 00:27:22,340 S1: Talbot School of Theology for 23 years. You're way too 475 00:27:22,340 --> 00:27:26,510 S1: young for that, Matt and uh, doctor JP foster, who 476 00:27:26,510 --> 00:27:31,030 S1: serves at Faithful Central Bible Church in Los Angeles. Senior 477 00:27:31,030 --> 00:27:33,470 S1: pastor there. You must have been jumping up and down 478 00:27:33,470 --> 00:27:35,590 S1: when those Dodgers won. Is that true? 479 00:27:35,630 --> 00:27:40,350 S2: JP absolutely. Absolutely. It was a it was hard though. 480 00:27:40,390 --> 00:27:42,190 S2: That was a hard game to watch. Game seven was 481 00:27:42,190 --> 00:27:43,070 S2: very hard to watch. 482 00:27:43,510 --> 00:27:46,870 S1: Both six and seven. It was, okay, we won't go there. 483 00:27:46,869 --> 00:27:49,270 S1: We'll be talking about that the whole time. There's probably 484 00:27:49,270 --> 00:27:53,350 S1: something in those baseball games too that um, that that 485 00:27:53,350 --> 00:27:56,750 S1: bleeds into this. You know what your identity is, is 486 00:27:56,750 --> 00:27:59,510 S1: your identity and do you win? You know, are you 487 00:27:59,510 --> 00:28:02,030 S1: the champion? What if you don't win? You know, that 488 00:28:02,030 --> 00:28:05,590 S1: kind of thing. But, but I digress. Um, I want 489 00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:08,990 S1: you to talk about self-talk because that I think, Matt, 490 00:28:08,990 --> 00:28:13,750 S1: you teach this in your class, you ask your students 491 00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:18,310 S1: to just listen to what they say to themselves and 492 00:28:18,550 --> 00:28:22,270 S1: they just write it down, write down what you you 493 00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:24,800 S1: think every day. Tell us what they wrote down. 494 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,960 S3: Yeah, I think that most of us usually we're not 495 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:32,000 S3: aware of our self-talk because we're so used to it. 496 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,359 S3: It's a familiar voice. So I tell them, you know, 497 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,440 S3: just jot it down. Don't critique it. Just jot it down. 498 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,720 S3: When you're in those quiet moments, when you're in the 499 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,440 S3: loud moments and all of a sudden you realize you're 500 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,520 S3: saying something. And I'll tell you, Chris, it's, it's one 501 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,280 S3: of the saddest things that I've ever seen is when 502 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,479 S3: I got the list. So these are, you know, these 503 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:57,680 S3: are Christians. Most of them grew up in Christian homes. 504 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,080 S3: And here's what they wrote. This is just a sampling. 505 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:06,360 S3: They said, I am not enough. I deserve to be belittled. 506 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:12,560 S3: I am not worth people's time. I'm so messed up, 507 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,480 S3: I wish I were someone else in the list. Just 508 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,920 S3: goes on and on and on. So that's what people 509 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,970 S3: are telling themselves over and over and over again. And 510 00:29:23,010 --> 00:29:25,970 S3: of course, you know Satan the enemy. He loves that. 511 00:29:26,290 --> 00:29:28,890 S3: He just jumps right in there and whispers that in 512 00:29:28,890 --> 00:29:32,490 S3: our ear. Yep. That's right. You are not enough. You're 513 00:29:32,490 --> 00:29:36,770 S3: not enough. You are messed up. So yeah, that's what's 514 00:29:36,770 --> 00:29:38,890 S3: going on over and over and over in our in 515 00:29:38,930 --> 00:29:40,610 S3: our minds. Yeah. 516 00:29:40,650 --> 00:29:43,530 S1: Or the last one was I'm a failure. And I 517 00:29:43,530 --> 00:29:46,130 S1: go back to the, I go back to the baseball analogy. 518 00:29:46,170 --> 00:29:50,690 S1: You know? The Toronto Blue Jays get all the way 519 00:29:50,690 --> 00:29:53,450 S1: to game seven and you know, they lose that. So 520 00:29:53,490 --> 00:29:56,090 S1: you know, the whole season's a failure. No no it's 521 00:29:56,090 --> 00:30:00,970 S1: not no no no no that. Yeah you lost that game. 522 00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:03,729 S1: You didn't win the world champion. But look at what 523 00:30:03,730 --> 00:30:08,210 S1: was accomplished there. And I understand the frustration of the 524 00:30:08,210 --> 00:30:12,250 S1: team that loses. But if you and I think a 525 00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:15,930 S1: lot of Christians will do the same thing, though, they'll 526 00:30:16,410 --> 00:30:19,570 S1: they'll have bad thoughts or they'll. Here's the other thing 527 00:30:19,570 --> 00:30:23,820 S1: they'll do. they will say, I have forgiven so and so, 528 00:30:24,380 --> 00:30:27,140 S1: and I'm going to wipe that from my memory. And 529 00:30:27,140 --> 00:30:29,220 S1: I'm not going to think of that again because I've 530 00:30:29,220 --> 00:30:31,900 S1: forgiven them. God's forgiven me so much, I'm going to 531 00:30:31,900 --> 00:30:33,700 S1: forgive them. They get up the next day or they 532 00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:37,740 S1: see something. They drive by wherever that person works or lives. 533 00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:41,620 S1: And it's like those feelings come back and they think, oh, 534 00:30:41,660 --> 00:30:44,700 S1: I'm a failure. I've not forgotten. I really haven't forgiven 535 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:48,100 S1: them because look, I'm bringing that back up. JP, what 536 00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:50,140 S1: do you say to a person who feels that way? 537 00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:55,420 S2: Yeah. Well, forgive does not necessarily mean forget. And I 538 00:30:55,420 --> 00:30:57,820 S2: think that's some of the one of the first, um, 539 00:30:57,860 --> 00:31:01,020 S2: misunderstandings to forgive someone doesn't mean to forget it didn't 540 00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:04,340 S2: happen to forgive someone doesn't even mean that you can't 541 00:31:04,340 --> 00:31:09,900 S2: get justice for what took place. I think many people 542 00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:15,620 S2: wrestle when they're carrying guilt and shame. That comes with forgiveness. 543 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:19,060 S2: And I think if we're, um, we mentioned negative self-talk 544 00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:21,670 S2: in our thoughts. One I think we need to be 545 00:31:21,670 --> 00:31:25,110 S2: gracious to ourselves when we say that we are remembering, 546 00:31:25,550 --> 00:31:27,750 S2: because it doesn't necessarily mean they didn't forgive. But I 547 00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:32,510 S2: have memory to remember. Um, second Corinthians tells us that 548 00:31:32,510 --> 00:31:37,550 S2: any argument that tries to puff itself up against knowledge 549 00:31:37,550 --> 00:31:41,229 S2: of God must be demolished into obedience to Christ. And 550 00:31:41,230 --> 00:31:44,750 S2: I think that's where finding freedom in Jesus is so liberating. 551 00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:48,350 S2: Because if I'm wrestling with thoughts of forgiveness, guilt, or shame, 552 00:31:48,790 --> 00:31:51,750 S2: I have to remember what God's Word says. So I 553 00:31:51,790 --> 00:31:54,870 S2: can't allow this thought to to stay in my mind. 554 00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:57,110 S2: I have to take it captive and demolish it into 555 00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:59,390 S2: obedience to Christ. So what does God's Word say about 556 00:31:59,390 --> 00:32:02,270 S2: forgiven me being forgiven and me forgiving? And then what 557 00:32:02,270 --> 00:32:04,790 S2: do I do with the weight of the baggage or 558 00:32:04,790 --> 00:32:08,310 S2: shame that comes with that? And many times it's easy 559 00:32:08,310 --> 00:32:11,430 S2: for me to forgive someone, Chris. It's sometimes I realize 560 00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:15,630 S2: that it's easier for me to accept, accept forgiveness, or 561 00:32:15,630 --> 00:32:19,520 S2: forgive someone. But the biggest wrestler I've noticed over time 562 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,000 S2: is forgiving myself. I don't mind forgiving you, Chris. No problem. 563 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,160 S2: What you did, I forgive you. Many of us wrestle 564 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,800 S2: with actually forgiving ourselves because we're saying this. How could 565 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,280 S2: I have done that? And then, does God really forgive 566 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,200 S2: me for what I just did? Not noticing. I think 567 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,320 S2: it's first John one nine says, if we confess our sins, 568 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,400 S2: God is faithful and just to forgive us, to forgive 569 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:48,800 S2: us and cleanse us. There's forgiving us and there's cleansing 570 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,840 S2: us of the guilt and the shame. And then the 571 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,360 S2: next words are for all unrighteousness. Now, I know some 572 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,840 S2: of you studied Hebrew and Greek. Well, all means all. So, God, 573 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,640 S2: God forgives us for all unrighteousness. And I think that 574 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,360 S2: is the wrestle, Chris, is that does God really forgive 575 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,800 S2: all the answers? Yes. He forgives and he cleanses the guilt, 576 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,440 S2: the shame that comes with it. That's why it's important 577 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,720 S2: for us to know the difference between being free, being forgiven, 578 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:21,500 S2: and being shame free. Very important to understand. Matt does it. 579 00:33:21,860 --> 00:33:23,580 S2: When we did this study on what it means to 580 00:33:23,580 --> 00:33:26,500 S2: be free. Matt. I mean, it blew his mind when. Matt. 581 00:33:26,500 --> 00:33:29,580 S2: And if he doesn't mind sharing what he saw from 582 00:33:29,580 --> 00:33:31,460 S2: the beginning in the Garden of Adam and Eve, what 583 00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:36,540 S2: free actually really meant because it's liberating and revelatory when 584 00:33:36,540 --> 00:33:39,020 S2: you see what took place in the garden in Genesis 585 00:33:39,060 --> 00:33:42,300 S2: chapters one, two, and three, how God says we're free, 586 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:44,660 S2: but there's something God does with our freedom. Matt, do 587 00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:45,500 S2: you mind sharing that? 588 00:33:46,060 --> 00:33:50,140 S3: Yeah, yeah, sure. Yeah. I mean, I teach the Gospel 589 00:33:50,140 --> 00:33:53,140 S3: of John every semester and Gospel of John is big 590 00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:56,340 S3: on the word freedom. So I thought I pretty much 591 00:33:56,380 --> 00:33:59,140 S3: understood what it means. I know what it doesn't mean. 592 00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:01,540 S3: I mean, the world tells us we're free to do 593 00:34:01,580 --> 00:34:04,740 S3: whatever we want, whatever you want. And I know that's 594 00:34:04,740 --> 00:34:07,980 S3: not what it means. But as I looked at, we 595 00:34:08,020 --> 00:34:10,820 S3: actually looked at every use in the Bible of every 596 00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:14,060 S3: one of these 21 words. That's how we started our studies. 597 00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:20,270 S3: And when you go back to Genesis, God says you're free. Okay. 598 00:34:20,350 --> 00:34:24,030 S3: But he says, you can't eat from this one tree. 599 00:34:24,750 --> 00:34:29,629 S3: So from the very beginning, the word freedom has stipulations. 600 00:34:29,630 --> 00:34:34,430 S3: It has limits. And why did God put stipulations and 601 00:34:34,430 --> 00:34:38,189 S3: limits on Adam and Eve? Because he knew what was 602 00:34:38,190 --> 00:34:40,989 S3: good for him. He knew that if they were going 603 00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:44,910 S3: to thrive and flourish, they can't eat from that other tree. 604 00:34:45,870 --> 00:34:49,710 S3: And so when we say, I'm free, I actually have 605 00:34:49,710 --> 00:34:54,710 S3: my students debate. Take your favorite secular university and now 606 00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:58,190 S3: let's debate them as Christians. What's free mean? Free to 607 00:34:58,230 --> 00:35:00,950 S3: do whatever I want. Well, here's what we think. Free means. 608 00:35:01,310 --> 00:35:04,190 S3: You're free from sin. Well, they don't believe in sin. 609 00:35:04,190 --> 00:35:08,469 S3: So we got to start there. We're free from sin 610 00:35:08,989 --> 00:35:12,310 S3: and death. And we're free to live as we were 611 00:35:12,310 --> 00:35:17,320 S3: created to live. And the only way that that definition 612 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,960 S3: works is if we find true freedom. We really thrive 613 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,799 S3: and flourish when we live the way God created us 614 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,440 S3: to live. I mean, we give the example in the 615 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,799 S3: book of a dolphin. Can you imagine walking down the 616 00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,560 S3: sidewalk one day and a dolphin walks next to you? Well, 617 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,719 S3: of course not, right? Dolphins were made to swim in 618 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:42,160 S3: the ocean, and we were made to live according to 619 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:47,239 S3: God's will. And when we live that way, we find 620 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:53,280 S3: real freedom, real joy, real peace. And that, for me, 621 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,760 S3: was completely liberating. I'm not missing out when I don't 622 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:03,640 S3: do these other things. I'm actually finding God's best in 623 00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,799 S3: my life. I'm a huge soccer fan. I love Barcelona 624 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,280 S3: soccer because we lived in Barcelona for six years and 625 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,410 S3: one of their famous defenders, Gerard Pique. He said this 626 00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:19,690 S3: and it was after he left Shakira, the famous singer. 627 00:36:20,370 --> 00:36:24,290 S3: He said the day I die, I will look back 628 00:36:24,290 --> 00:36:29,210 S3: and hope that I have always done what I wanted. Oh, 629 00:36:29,730 --> 00:36:33,089 S3: and I read that quote and I went, oh my gosh. PK, 630 00:36:33,930 --> 00:36:38,410 S3: you've left your your wife and your two kids and 631 00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:42,090 S3: all you care about is to do what you wanted. 632 00:36:42,090 --> 00:36:48,690 S3: What about them? So yeah, the world's definition really messes 633 00:36:48,690 --> 00:36:51,370 S3: it up. On on freedom. Yes. 634 00:36:52,210 --> 00:36:57,370 S1: Why is it so hard to give ourselves to receive 635 00:36:57,370 --> 00:37:00,610 S1: the grace for ourselves? Because I'm kind of stuck on that. 636 00:37:00,610 --> 00:37:03,570 S1: That's one of the things your students said after they 637 00:37:04,450 --> 00:37:07,729 S1: embraced their true identity. They went through what we're talking 638 00:37:07,730 --> 00:37:10,489 S1: about here today. The first one said, I am able 639 00:37:10,489 --> 00:37:13,500 S1: to give myself more grace. So I want to talk 640 00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,219 S1: about that in our last segment. And if you go 641 00:37:16,219 --> 00:37:20,620 S1: to the website, chris.org, you'll see the book Finding Freedom 642 00:37:20,620 --> 00:37:25,060 S1: in Jesus the 21 attributes of Your Identity in Christ. 643 00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:27,739 S1: Were just scratching the surface here with doctor J. P 644 00:37:27,780 --> 00:37:33,020 S1: foster and Doctor Matt Williams. Go to Chris fabry.org. Click 645 00:37:33,020 --> 00:37:36,580 S1: through right there and you'll see that featured resource finding 646 00:37:36,580 --> 00:37:55,900 S1: freedom in Jesus more straight ahead. What are the 21 647 00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:59,540 S1: attributes of your identity in Christ? If you discover these 648 00:37:59,540 --> 00:38:02,420 S1: not just in your head, but move them into your heart. 649 00:38:02,980 --> 00:38:07,420 S1: Life's going to be different. Finding freedom in Jesus. Back 650 00:38:07,420 --> 00:38:12,870 S1: to JP Foster and Doctor. Matt Williams is our featured resource@chris.org. 651 00:38:13,550 --> 00:38:16,310 S1: I have so many questions I have so because one 652 00:38:16,310 --> 00:38:19,109 S1: of you, I saw a conversation you had talking about 653 00:38:19,110 --> 00:38:24,470 S1: anxiety and what hope does to the anxiety. Um, the 654 00:38:24,510 --> 00:38:27,109 S1: whole idea of God couldn't love you more than he 655 00:38:27,110 --> 00:38:30,469 S1: does right now. It's like that a lot of ways 656 00:38:30,469 --> 00:38:32,830 S1: to me that doesn't compute. He's got to love me 657 00:38:32,830 --> 00:38:35,910 S1: more because I'm going to do something to impress him. Uh, 658 00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:38,830 S1: you are both married to therapists. I wanted to talk 659 00:38:38,830 --> 00:38:42,830 S1: about that. The whole idea of process, we go toward 660 00:38:42,830 --> 00:38:46,710 S1: the outcome of things and we don't go through the process, 661 00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:48,669 S1: but we've got to go through the process to get 662 00:38:48,670 --> 00:38:51,750 S1: to where God wants. I had all these questions, but 663 00:38:51,750 --> 00:38:56,430 S1: I am stuck on that forgiving ourselves. Why it's so 664 00:38:56,430 --> 00:39:01,750 S1: hard to give grace to ourselves, and the way that 665 00:39:01,750 --> 00:39:03,509 S1: I have kind of worked that out in my own 666 00:39:03,510 --> 00:39:06,990 S1: life is because a lot of people have a problem. 667 00:39:06,989 --> 00:39:10,440 S1: Even with that, you can't forgive yourself. Only God can forgive. 668 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,799 S1: You know, those kind of things. The way I've worked 669 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:16,399 S1: it out is I want to believe what God says 670 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:21,200 S1: about me rather than how I feel or what I think. 671 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,960 S1: I'm going to agree with God about whatever it is. 672 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,000 S1: So that's the way that I process the whole grace 673 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,200 S1: to ourselves and forgiving ourselves. JP is that close to 674 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:33,040 S1: what you think? 675 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,440 S2: That's that's literally how I process it myself. Yes, that's 676 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,240 S2: how I process it because there's a, there's a bigger. 677 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,839 S2: I think when we get to that place of forgiving ourselves, 678 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:45,320 S2: it's we're, we're saying we're not using the word shame, 679 00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,680 S2: but I, I, that's what I'm noticing. I had a student, um, 680 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,319 S2: mention to me, I don't feel comfortable. I don't know 681 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,160 S2: if I'm, if I'm supposed to be here. And when 682 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,319 S2: I began to unpack what the student was experiencing, they 683 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:04,560 S2: were actually wrestling with the shame and guilt of their 684 00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,210 S2: past and their present. And if you go back to Genesis, um, 685 00:40:10,210 --> 00:40:13,090 S2: Matt just described what it looks like to be free. 686 00:40:13,330 --> 00:40:15,810 S2: Freedom came with boundaries. You're free. You're free to eat 687 00:40:15,810 --> 00:40:18,450 S2: of anything. But. But not this. The tree of knowledge 688 00:40:18,450 --> 00:40:21,130 S2: of good and evil. So freedom. Did we have free will? 689 00:40:21,370 --> 00:40:24,529 S2: Freedom also came with boundaries. As a parent, I love 690 00:40:24,530 --> 00:40:28,370 S2: my children and they do have free will. But I've 691 00:40:28,370 --> 00:40:31,370 S2: also created boundaries in how I'm raising them and how 692 00:40:31,650 --> 00:40:35,170 S2: they boundaries to protect them. And so that is something 693 00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:39,170 S2: that we can see biblically with Adam and Eve. If 694 00:40:39,170 --> 00:40:43,810 S2: you notice when they actually do rebel and they actually do, um, 695 00:40:43,930 --> 00:40:45,969 S2: are disobedient and they eat from the tree of knowledge 696 00:40:45,969 --> 00:40:47,490 S2: of good and evil, what do they do? The first 697 00:40:47,489 --> 00:40:52,649 S2: thing they do is hide. They hide, they, they, they hide, 698 00:40:52,690 --> 00:40:55,770 S2: they cover themselves because they realized that they were naked. 699 00:40:56,730 --> 00:40:59,569 S2: And when God comes and asks them, where are you? 700 00:40:59,610 --> 00:41:03,410 S2: They said we were hiding because we were naked. There's 701 00:41:03,410 --> 00:41:07,700 S2: an element of shame In that moment where they're hiding 702 00:41:08,219 --> 00:41:11,420 S2: because they they were naked. And if you continue reading 703 00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:17,500 S2: Genesis chapter three, even though there were consequences for their disobedience, 704 00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:23,500 S2: God covers them. The them hiding didn't fix it. Them 705 00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:27,780 S2: covering themselves with leaves didn't fix it. God covers them. 706 00:41:28,219 --> 00:41:30,900 S2: The scripture says, with the skin of an animal, God 707 00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:33,779 S2: covers them. If you. That's Old Testament. If you take 708 00:41:33,780 --> 00:41:35,580 S2: it to the. If you go to the New Testament. 709 00:41:36,340 --> 00:41:39,500 S2: Jesus's first miracle. I hate to break this to you guys. 710 00:41:39,540 --> 00:41:41,980 S2: It wasn't about keeping the party going and drinking wine. 711 00:41:43,820 --> 00:41:48,860 S2: Jesus's first miracle. He literally removes the shame from the 712 00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:52,779 S2: couple getting married. Culturally, you would have a wedding and 713 00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:56,380 S2: the whole town would be at the wedding. And in 714 00:41:56,380 --> 00:41:59,740 S2: an honor and shame culture to run out of food, 715 00:41:59,780 --> 00:42:02,740 S2: to run out of wine. It was not hospitable. So 716 00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:05,989 S2: there's a hospitality level that must be upkept. And if 717 00:42:06,030 --> 00:42:08,989 S2: you were to run out of food or wine when 718 00:42:08,989 --> 00:42:11,069 S2: you had guests, it was a shameful act. So they 719 00:42:11,070 --> 00:42:13,109 S2: would have been shamed. They didn't have a list of 720 00:42:13,110 --> 00:42:17,029 S2: 75 to 150 people attending their wedding. The whole village 721 00:42:17,150 --> 00:42:19,589 S2: was at their wedding. And the mother of Jesus comes 722 00:42:19,590 --> 00:42:22,710 S2: and says, hey, we're running out of wine. And Jesus 723 00:42:22,710 --> 00:42:26,790 S2: turning the water into wine, he he's covering this. This 724 00:42:26,790 --> 00:42:28,750 S2: couple is about to be shamed. They're going to start 725 00:42:28,750 --> 00:42:32,830 S2: off their marriage shamed and isolated from everyone in the community, 726 00:42:32,830 --> 00:42:34,830 S2: because you had to fight to get your honor back 727 00:42:34,830 --> 00:42:37,830 S2: in the community. What happens? Jesus gets the jars that 728 00:42:37,830 --> 00:42:41,469 S2: were used for ceremonial washing, and he uses that water 729 00:42:41,469 --> 00:42:44,270 S2: and he turns it into wine, and the master of 730 00:42:44,270 --> 00:42:47,110 S2: the banquet comes and tastes it. And he says, most 731 00:42:47,110 --> 00:42:49,910 S2: people bring out, I'm going to translate this, the cheap 732 00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:54,629 S2: wine last. You've brought the best. What is. What is 733 00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:58,750 S2: Scripture revealing to us that Jesus removed their shame. They 734 00:42:58,750 --> 00:43:01,190 S2: should have been shamed for running out of wine. Jesus 735 00:43:01,190 --> 00:43:03,609 S2: puts them in a position of honor. Now the whole 736 00:43:03,610 --> 00:43:06,650 S2: town's not going back, saying they've run out of wine. They. 737 00:43:06,890 --> 00:43:11,250 S2: This couple is shamed in our village or community. Jesus 738 00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:13,129 S2: put them in a place of honor. Everyone now is 739 00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:17,930 S2: going back saying, could you believe how amazing the wine 740 00:43:17,930 --> 00:43:21,330 S2: was that came out last. Because Jesus removes the shame 741 00:43:21,330 --> 00:43:23,969 S2: from this couple, puts them in a position of honor. 742 00:43:23,969 --> 00:43:26,770 S2: And this is Jesus's first miracle recorded miracles. Now we 743 00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:30,169 S2: see a glimpse of what what Jesus is going to do. 744 00:43:30,170 --> 00:43:34,770 S2: Jesus has come to remove the shame from us, from 745 00:43:34,770 --> 00:43:39,330 S2: all humanity if we accept his sacrifice by faith. And 746 00:43:39,330 --> 00:43:41,650 S2: so what I what I have to accept back to 747 00:43:41,650 --> 00:43:44,370 S2: what you said, Chris, is I have to then even 748 00:43:44,370 --> 00:43:47,210 S2: when I feel or I'm reminded of what I did, 749 00:43:47,210 --> 00:43:50,370 S2: I have to remember what Scripture reveals to us about shame. 750 00:43:50,410 --> 00:43:52,689 S2: God covered shame in the Old Testament of Adam and Eve. 751 00:43:53,489 --> 00:43:57,930 S2: Jesus comes to remove our shame and put us in 752 00:43:57,930 --> 00:44:01,650 S2: a position of honor. And that's been liberating for me. 753 00:44:02,460 --> 00:44:05,660 S2: You know, when we think about sin. Scripture reveals to 754 00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:07,660 S2: us Paul wrestled with it. He says, the thing I 755 00:44:07,660 --> 00:44:09,140 S2: want to do, I don't do the thing that I'm 756 00:44:09,140 --> 00:44:11,420 S2: supposed to do. I'm not supposed to do is what 757 00:44:11,420 --> 00:44:15,300 S2: I do. Why? Because sin lives in me, he says. Thanks, God. 758 00:44:15,580 --> 00:44:17,739 S2: Praise God or thanks God to the Lord Jesus Christ 759 00:44:17,739 --> 00:44:20,060 S2: who's come to save us. So we see this picture 760 00:44:20,060 --> 00:44:22,779 S2: of in this in this stage, Chris, I mentioned this 761 00:44:22,780 --> 00:44:26,140 S2: in the beginning of progressive sanctification, as we're continually being 762 00:44:26,180 --> 00:44:29,060 S2: transformed into the image of Christ until he returns, we're 763 00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:32,100 S2: going to continue to wrestle with sin and temptation. But 764 00:44:32,100 --> 00:44:36,740 S2: as believers in Christ, we should be gaining victory over 765 00:44:36,780 --> 00:44:40,180 S2: sin every single day, moment by moment, over time. 766 00:44:40,219 --> 00:44:43,540 S1: I've never heard that. I've never heard that removing the 767 00:44:43,540 --> 00:44:46,379 S1: shame from them with the with the wine thing that 768 00:44:46,420 --> 00:44:48,220 S1: I'm going to spend the rest of the day thinking 769 00:44:48,219 --> 00:44:51,780 S1: about that. But, but here's the the last question then. Matt, 770 00:44:51,860 --> 00:44:55,219 S1: I've got two minutes here. Um, why do we if 771 00:44:55,219 --> 00:44:58,219 S1: that's true, what he's just said is true. Why do 772 00:44:58,219 --> 00:45:01,990 S1: we keep picking that up? Why do we keep shouldering 773 00:45:01,989 --> 00:45:05,470 S1: that shame and that guilt when we don't have to? 774 00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:11,350 S3: Yeah. Well, we're we're following Adam and Eve's example, right? 775 00:45:11,350 --> 00:45:13,790 S3: We're hiding and thinking that we can do it on 776 00:45:13,790 --> 00:45:18,590 S3: our own. Hebrews 1022 says, draw near to God, having 777 00:45:18,590 --> 00:45:23,950 S3: our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience. 778 00:45:24,550 --> 00:45:27,629 S3: So we tend to run away, but the movement that 779 00:45:27,630 --> 00:45:31,109 S3: we need to do is to run to Jesus, because 780 00:45:31,110 --> 00:45:34,270 S3: he already knows what we've done, right? And so we 781 00:45:34,270 --> 00:45:37,270 S3: run to him. We tell the story in the book 782 00:45:37,310 --> 00:45:41,230 S3: about one of my students. She began to pray, asking 783 00:45:41,230 --> 00:45:43,310 S3: the Lord to forgive her of all her shame. And 784 00:45:43,310 --> 00:45:47,630 S3: she actually visualized in her mind's eye all the sins 785 00:45:47,630 --> 00:45:51,750 S3: surrounding her. And here comes Jesus, and he pushes the 786 00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:56,110 S3: sins away one by one. And she finally says to him, 787 00:45:56,670 --> 00:46:02,880 S3: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. And he says, I forgive you. 788 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,880 S3: That's the shame free life that we're all looking for. 789 00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,000 S1: Oh, let that grab Ahold of your heart today. That 790 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,239 S1: you are loved. That you are known. You're beautiful. You're 791 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:18,000 S1: an image bearer. Jesus came to set you free from shame. 792 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,720 S1: He rescued you and forgave you. He gave you his righteousness, redemption, reconciliation. 793 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:28,520 S1: And there's more in finding freedom in Jesus. The 21 794 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,239 S1: attributes of your identity in Christ. Now you know why 795 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,319 S1: I wanted to have doctor JP Foster and Doctor Matt 796 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,279 S1: Williams on today and re-air this broadcast from November. I 797 00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,120 S1: hope it's been an encouragement to you. God bless you, friend. 798 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,480 S1: Chris Fabry Live is a production of Moody Radio, a 799 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:47,840 S1: Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.