S1: We've been riveted to our TV sets, watching the news,
S1: watching reports of Israel's strike against Iran and Iran's ballistic
S1: missile attacks against Israel. How should we think about this biblically,
S1: and how should we pray? Stay with me as I
S1: speak with a friend from Israel, Israel, about all this. Hello, friends.
S1: Welcome to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study Across America.
S1: My name is Michael Wright. I'm the academic dean and
S1: professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
S1: I'm so grateful to be joining you around the radio
S1: kitchen table. We're sitting around talking about your questions about
S1: the Bible, God, and the spiritual life. If you have
S1: a question and you'd like to call the phone number
S1: here 5483675. Let me give you that again. (877) 548-3675. You
S1: can write it down and uh, (877) 548-3675. You can also
S1: go to open Line radio.org and click on the link
S1: that says Ask Michael a question, and your questions will
S1: be written down and put into the mailbag for future, uh,
S1: segment on the Febc mailbag to Hera and Lisa are
S1: producing today. Tricia is away for the day and hoping
S1: she has a great time. Uh, Omar Mendoza is our
S1: producer or our engineer today. Uh, and I have a
S1: special guest again, the phone number (877) 548-3675. Go get yourself
S1: a cup of coffee and open your Bible. We're going
S1: to listen to about listen to Israel, the stories about
S1: what's going on in Israel. But also we're going to
S1: talk about this biblically. So you need to have your
S1: Bible ready. Uh, now I want to introduce my friend. He's, uh,
S1: an expert on all things Israel. He lives in Israel.
S1: We've been friends for over 50 years. Uh, one of
S1: my dearest friends. We went to Moody together for a while.
S1: We went to Dallas Theological Seminary. Uh, and his name
S1: is Avner. Uh, Avner has lived in the land of
S1: Israel for about 40 years. I believe I'm going to
S1: get that straight. And, uh, he is a music ministry
S1: there and a worship ministry and, uh, a teaching ministry
S1: in Israel. Uh, his, uh, his kids have at least
S1: two of them have come to Moody Bible Institute, for
S1: which we're really grateful, uh, and graduated from Moody Bible Institute.
S1: He is married to the lovely Rachel, who is one
S1: of my favorite people. Dearest hearts in the whole world
S1: are grateful for you being with me. Avner, thank you
S1: for joining me right now.
S2: What a joy. Michael, always a joy to be with you.
S1: Yeah. I appreciate you so much. You know, I, I
S1: don't know quite how to describe you. You do everything.
S1: You teach, you sing, you write music, you, uh, you're
S1: even a tour guide if necessary. So thank you so much, Avner.
S1: Thank you for joining me.
S2: I do do juggling and playing the piano at the
S2: same time, but not successfully.
S1: Yeah, I know you try that. That's great. Well, thank you, Avner, for, uh, this.
S1: You know, I have been, uh, become sort of, like,
S1: frenetic in watching TV news, uh, scrolling on, going on
S1: to my phone and scrolling constantly for The Jerusalem Post
S1: and the Times of Israel. Uh, I'm watching my news
S1: feeds constantly because of the strike against Iran. And then,
S1: of course, the ballistic missile retaliation by Iran. So people
S1: are wondering why in the world now, why did Israel
S1: do this now? Uh, just a couple nights ago and
S1: start this, uh, strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities. Tell
S1: me about.
S2: That. Mike, you and I once had a professor who
S2: we called Prof. It was Howard Hendricks. Sure. And he.
S2: He always used to say a text without a context
S2: is a pretext. He was quoting, I think, probably from
S2: David Cooper. Um, but the point I'm raising that is
S2: because a lot of people don't remember what's going on historically.
S2: They might know the issue of the Prince of Persia
S2: from the Book of Daniel. And certainly there's a spiritual
S2: dynamic that one could trace and work on. But basically, um,
S2: the original perspective that Muhammad had back in the six
S2: hundreds was, uh, to conquer the world, uh, for what
S2: he believed was a revelation from God. It wasn't it
S2: was from a God who didn't have the biblical name,
S2: but that meant to take over the world and to
S2: make everyone believers, whether they like it or not. And
S2: if not, then to become second class citizens. So even
S2: though in America most people don't believe that or live
S2: with that awareness, in the Middle East it's very strong.
S2: And Iran specifically is the Shiite stream. It's about 20%
S2: of Islam, and they're ruled by people who are actually
S2: geopolitically trying to make something called the Shiite Crescent that
S2: would go from Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen. Of course, Syria has
S2: gone through some changes now, but their goal is basically
S2: to tie down the Middle East. And their second goal
S2: is to destroy Israel. And they're very, very clear about it.
S2: Most Americans might not remember that Iran was involved in
S2: things like the bombing of the US embassy in Beirut,
S2: where 63 people were murdered, or the bombing of the
S2: marine barracks where 241 were murdered in Beirut, or the
S2: Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia. All these things were done
S2: by Iranian terrorism. So that same jihadi, uh, evil uh,
S2: is directed very, very clearly at Israel, where the leaders
S2: are saying, hey, we're going to eliminate you. You cannot
S2: win this conflict. We will destroy you. So we've been
S2: dealing with this since the mid 80s, since the mid 80s,
S2: and it's gotten worse and worse. And Israel's always been
S2: telling the world, hey, this is a new Hitler. And
S2: he's going to start with us, but he's not going
S2: to end with us. He's going to end with America.
S2: But a lot of people are not tuned into that
S2: and forget about that. So to give you two very,
S2: very short examples here, uh, back in January 2020, America
S2: took out the head of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards, Qassem Soleimani,
S2: who was involved in his biggest master terrorist in the world, in, um, December,
S2: just after the October 7th, um, attack on Gaza, the famous, uh,
S2: infamous Hamas attack, the same Islamic Revolutionary Guard said that
S2: we're attacking Israel with this huge, uh, uh, ballistic missile
S2: attacks in revenge for America killing Qassem Soleimani. Now, Israel's
S2: not upset about the fact that America killed Soleimani. We
S2: were very happy about that. He was an enemy. And
S2: Psalm 139 talks about what God feels about the enemies
S2: of Israel. But here we are with the same enemy.
S2: America and Israel. And the enemy doesn't understand the Bible,
S2: doesn't understand Psalm 83 or Ezekiel 38 and 39, where
S2: Iran is mentioned, at least in the second passage, as
S2: having a factor. So what's happened basically is they are
S2: trying to destroy us and have done so for years.
S2: They've sent all the money to Hamas. They've sent money
S2: to Hezbollah in Lebanon. They've sent money to the Houthis,
S2: who are, uh, rocketing American ships. They sent money to Iraq,
S2: which has been attacking US bases. So this is a
S2: big problem. And Israel basically got got to the point
S2: where we said we have to deal with this because
S2: they were close to completing a primitive nuclear device and
S2: had about eight more in the pipeline.
S1: You know, uh, a lot of people think that Israel
S1: started this assault on Iran, uh, this strike. However, I
S1: believe that the violent assault actually began on October 7th
S1: when a proxy of Iran attacked Israel and committed the
S1: worst atrocities since the Holocaust. That was the attack by Hamas.
S1: And then immediately afterwards, Hezbollah, the northern uh, from Lebanon,
S1: that proxy of Iran, began to fire rockets and missiles
S1: into Israel. And then, of course, the Houthis are involved.
S1: They're firing missiles into Israel. All these things are happening.
S1: And there was a seven front war that began. But
S1: only one of those fronts is Iran. But this began
S1: more than two years ago. This began or almost two
S1: years ago, uh, in October of 23. That's when it began.
S1: When the most recent assault. I agree with you about
S1: the broader context, but this recent assault was begun when
S1: Iran began the strike. And now, with Iran so close
S1: to getting nuclear weapons, I don't think Israel could have
S1: helped by not striking that it would have been no
S1: good not to strike the the head of the snake,
S1: so to speak, that wants to see the destruction of Israel. Now,
S1: you and I, we both are linked to the Holocaust.
S1: I know both my parents survived and I lost half
S1: brothers and a sister. Mr.. Uh uh uh uh uh
S1: uh uh uh uh, did you, uh, have family?
S2: Yeah, from my Polish family. 92 of 95, uh, were, uh,
S2: murdered in the camps.
S1: Yeah. See, this is why I think people don't realize
S1: that now Israel has a solemn duty to protect the
S1: Jewish people, and they cannot abide by Iran getting a
S1: nuclear weapon and then committing a second Holocaust. So it
S1: is Israel's government's responsibility to protect the nation of Israel,
S1: the Jewish state, from this kind of genocidal attack that
S1: that Iran is planning. I think that's so important that
S1: we recognize this. Anyway, uh, Avner, can you stay with me?
S1: Another segment?
S2: Sure.
S1: Okay. Uh, we're going to be right back, folks. We're
S1: going to take a break here. And, uh, when we
S1: come back, we're going to talk about some ways to
S1: think biblically about this continuing war between Iran and Israel,
S1: and also how we can pray. What should we be
S1: praying about this? My guest is Avner Boesky. I'm Michael Redlick.
S1: Stay with me. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
S1: Open Line. I'm Michael Rey. Dominik. Joining me for this
S1: first half hour of the program is my friend Avner
S1: Boesky from Israel. Avner is an expert on all things
S1: Israel and scripture and uh, also, uh, what God is,
S1: how God is moving in the land of Israel. So, uh, Avner,
S1: thank you for for being with us at short notice.
S1: I really appreciate it. We're talking about what's going on
S1: with Iran. I want to know how has Israel responded?
S1: How are the people of Israel responding to the retaliation
S1: with the ballistic missiles that are landing around Israel? Tell
S1: me about that.
S2: Yes. Sometimes people call me up and they say, is
S2: it safe to come to Israel? I say, I don't know,
S2: I just live here. Uh, one of the things that
S2: happens here is that we've been going through wars. We've
S2: been birthed in war since 1948. And so every Israeli
S2: goes into the army for 2 to 3 years, depending
S2: if they're a man or a woman. So we've seen this, uh,
S2: we haven't seen missiles landing on civilians. The first time
S2: that happened, I was in the Israeli army, and I
S2: was in 91 from Saddam Hussein, the desert storms. But
S2: right now we have, uh, you know, people with the
S2: 2000 missiles in their inventory shooting at us. And, uh,
S2: we found that if we go into shelters in our house,
S2: every house has a shelter. If you go into the
S2: shelter 99 times out of 100, you're going to be fine.
S2: 2 or 3 people were killed. Murdered yesterday by an
S2: Iranian missile. And they weren't in a shelter in their
S2: in their safe room, I guess you would call it. Uh, so, yeah,
S2: but Israelis really feel that, uh, we are, um, we
S2: can deal with it, but we know all of us, uh,
S2: a great sobriety because we know that, uh, these, uh,
S2: £1,000 bombs can really do a lot of damage when
S2: they hit. And, uh, Israel right now, of course, is, uh,
S2: controlling the skies over Iran. And that's an amazing thing.
S2: 100 drones were shot at us just a day ago.
S2: And we, with some American help, shut down nearly all
S2: of the 100 drones, something unheard of in military history.
S2: But we're talking about the largest ballistic missile attacks that
S2: Israel is facing in the world in the history of
S2: the world. Happened yesterday. And, uh, so, yeah, but there's
S2: a great sobriety.
S1: So people are wondering, uh, I know believers are saying,
S1: is this Armageddon? Is this the end of the world?
S1: Is this the last battle? Where does this fit prophetically,
S1: do you think?
S2: Well, again, if we're looking at Armageddon, you know, we're looking, uh,
S2: not just to, let's say Ezekiel 38 and 39, where
S2: Persia is mentioned, uh, in verse five. So Persia is
S2: going to be around, Iran is going to be around
S2: for a while. They're not out of the picture. Uh,
S2: but the principle of Psalm 83, the people who make
S2: shrewd plans against your people and say, let's wipe them
S2: out as a nation, That's what we're dealing with. Armageddon
S2: talks about all the nations of the world. And so
S2: we're not dealing with that. We're dealing with one nation
S2: primarily at this point with 5 or 6 proxies.
S1: You know, one of the things I say, people ask
S1: me all the time, are we in the last battle?
S1: And I point out the very same thing. But I
S1: do think that what we're seeing as more and more
S1: nations turn against Israel, even Western nations that were supposed
S1: to be supportive. Correct? Yes. I think that we're seeing
S1: it getting closer and closer to those days when all
S1: nations will gather against Jerusalem. Thank God it's not happening
S1: just yet. But we do see they're gathering in the U.N.,
S1: so to speak.
S2: Uh, yeah. And there's.
S1: Two.
S2: Things, I think if you go to Psalm 83, verse
S2: six through eight, you'll see that just about all of
S2: those nations are right now involved in attacking Israel. That's very,
S2: very close to what Psalm 83 is talking about. But
S2: the other side to us is, uh oh. Now, what
S2: was I about to say on that?
S1: It's okay. Here's here's the question. I do think that
S1: the the nations will gather against Israel. Uh, I tell you,
S1: today I got a very encouraging, uh, uh, picture and
S1: text message from a professor at Moody who happens to
S1: be in Seoul, Korea. And what he sent me was
S1: a a sign. I don't even know where the sign was.
S1: A big banner was hanging up, and, uh, it says, uh,
S1: thank you, Israel, for fighting for the free world. And
S1: then Korea stands with Israel and had an Israeli flag
S1: that was encouraging. I think it was at a church
S1: that they did this. So, uh, I think that it's
S1: important I think this is what a believer's response should be,
S1: in my opinion. What would you encourage believers to think
S1: about these kinds of events today?
S2: I would say compare it to what happened in Germany
S2: in the 30s. We're dealing with people who wanted to
S2: destroy not only Israel, but the whole world. The chant
S2: that goes on in Iran all the time is death
S2: to Israel, death to America. And then the Houthis add
S2: on a third line and cursed be Israel. Which brings
S2: us right into Genesis 12 three. That those who curse
S2: Israel will themselves be cursed by the God of Israel.
S2: So I think it's real important to be praying. It's
S2: important for us if you pray. So if the listeners
S2: are listening, do pray for Israel's safety and protection. And
S2: that the Lord would give us, like he gave to
S2: King David, victory on the battle, and that he would
S2: bring us to know the God of Israel personally. Mhm.
S1: Yeah, I think that's true. I think we need to
S1: be praying. You know, when we say pray for the
S1: peace of Jerusalem, I pray for the peace of Jerusalem
S1: all the time. But I at this point, as there's
S1: war with Hamas, uh, continuing and this war now with, uh, Iran,
S1: I pray for the victory of Israel. And that's how
S1: there will be peace. Now, it's not the final peace
S1: that will come when the Prince of Peace returns, but
S1: at least temporal peace, uh, and that peace will come
S1: through the surrender of Hamas and, uh, the the final
S1: defeat of this nuclear program at, uh, in Iran. I
S1: think that that's crucial to understand. Uh, so we're praying
S1: for peace in that way. Uh, any other areas specifically
S1: that we should be praying for Israel?
S2: David's son Solomon said there's a time for peace and
S2: a time for war.
S3: And of course.
S2: The birds. The birds sang that in their famous, uh,
S2: Pete Seeger song. turn, turn, turn. Yeah. I think it's so, so,
S2: so important, uh, to really be praying for the salvation
S2: and the protection of Israel. Uh, to me, that's just
S2: about the most important thing. One good thing and might
S2: be encouraging to people is that because of pressure, C.S.
S2: Lewis used to say, God whispers in our pleasures, and
S2: he shouts in our pains. It's his megaphone to raise
S2: a deaf world. There is greater openness spiritually in Israel
S2: today across the board. People are seeking, you know, they
S2: say there are no atheists in foxholes. That's happening in Israel. Uh,
S2: it's not overwhelming. And we're not seeing, you know, a
S2: Billy Graham meeting here, uh, in terms of amounts of people.
S2: But there is a much greater openness. And so that's
S2: worth praying for, that people will find the God who
S2: they've been looking for and his Messiah.
S1: Yeah. You know, yesterday, uh, a mom of a of
S1: a there's a Jewish believer who has sent several of
S1: her children to Moody. One is coming this fall. In fact,
S1: several are graduates already, three, I believe. Uh, she sent
S1: me a link to a CBN report. News report, uh,
S1: where they were there was a video that they showed
S1: and then interviewed someone of a group of Jewish believers
S1: gathering in a shelter during the ballistic missile assault. And
S1: they were engaged in singing and worship. And I saw
S1: three moody grads in that video. Um, and they they
S1: were there in Israel and, and worshiping and I, I
S1: pray that these young people that they will continue to
S1: speak up with other Israelis, uh, that the Israelis who are,
S1: I think it's fair to say, pretty stressed with this war.
S1: We'll find peace and and rest and emotional well-being through
S1: the Prince of Peace by coming to know Yeshua Jesus. Yeah.
S3: I think I think.
S2: One really good point is the issue of the heart,
S2: that it's not just a chess game, of course, with
S2: various pieces, Israeli pieces, Iranian pieces, but God's heart in
S2: Isaiah 62 and 63 is bound to the Jewish people.
S2: And when they suffer, it says he suffers. And so
S2: that's so important. We're touching something very precious and deep
S2: to the heart of God. And as we pray and intercede,
S2: it's not only for prophetic fulfillment, but it's for something
S2: which is really touching the love and the passion and
S2: the heart of God.
S1: Yeah. You know, that's a verse that I find very
S1: helpful when people ask me and they I'm sure they
S1: ask you this where was God during the Holocaust? I
S1: always tell them, uh, in Isaiah 63 nine, in all
S1: their suffering and all their afflictions, he was afflicted. And
S1: I think that when Israel suffers, God suffers with Israel. Um, and, uh,
S1: I think that sometimes we lose sight of that, that
S1: what breaks the heart of God. Uh, I don't know
S1: if you know this story, but, uh, you know, the
S1: person I'm going to tell you about, uh, your daughter
S1: in law, uh.
S3: When she was not your daughter.
S1: In.
S3: Law.
S1: She, uh, she said to me she was going to
S1: study this summer. Uh, it was a summer a number
S1: of years ago. Uh, and she said, I'm going to
S1: study on my summer break. She was a student at Moody,
S1: and I'm going to see what breaks the heart of God. And, uh,
S1: so she came back, and she was not a Jewish
S1: studies major. She came and she said, I discovered what
S1: breaks the heart of God. And that's the ministry I'm
S1: going to be in. And I said, what's that? And
S1: she said, I saw the two places where Yeshua wept
S1: in the Gospels, and both places it was over the
S1: unbelief of Israel.
S3: In.
S1: Luke 19 and in John 11. And the unbelief of
S1: Israel is what breaks God's heart and breaks my heart.
S1: And and lo and behold, she listened to that leading
S1: of the Holy Spirit through his word and and ended
S1: up wisely marrying your son.
S3: And that's how.
S2: She's listening to this broadcast right now.
S1: Yeah. Now that to me, uh, that understanding that the
S1: Lord is with Israel and all their afflictions and, uh,
S1: that he is, uh, he, he cares deeply and weeps
S1: at the unbelief of Israel. Avner. Uh, what last things
S1: can you tell me, uh, tell our audience. How would
S1: you like them to? What kind of action? What kind
S1: of steps can they take? At this point.
S2: I would say two things, even three things. One is, uh,
S2: we're probably, uh, in for, uh, some very heavy ballistic
S2: missile attacks, uh, usually at night. They only come out
S2: at night. They can refuel better at night. So I
S2: think it's very worth praying for Israel's safety and for
S2: the Israeli and American soldiers, airmen who are interdicting these things.
S2: The third missiles. The arrow missiles. That's the first point.
S2: The second point is it says in Romans 116, don't
S2: leave the gospel out. It's supposed to go to the
S2: Jewish people. It's our Messiah. Bring it with priority first
S2: to the Jew. And third of all, uh, one of
S2: the signs you mentioned, uh, Michael, is anti-Semitism increasing, and
S2: it doesn't only increase on the media, it increases next door.
S2: And so when you run into that, it's time to
S2: speak up and to stand for your Jewish neighbors. And
S2: when you know Jewish people, let them know that you're
S2: not buying into that.
S3: Hey.
S1: Thank you so much for joining me on Open Line. Uh, it's, uh,
S1: very insightful, very helpful. We'll be praying for you. Uh, friends,
S1: we're going to be right back with the Febc mailbag,
S1: so stay with us. This is open line with Michael Radonich.
S1: And that was my guest, Avner Boesky. And we're back.
S1: So glad to be with you this Saturday morning. And
S1: I'm really grateful to the Far Eastern Broadcasting Company for
S1: partnering with Open Line to bring the weekly Febc mailbag.
S1: Febc far Eastern Broadcasting Company is a terrific organization, and
S1: they bring the gospel to people all over the world
S1: through media and through personal engagement. I think that's so crucial. Yeah,
S1: to to see what they're doing. Check out the Febc podcast.
S1: It's called Until All Have Heard. You'll find it at
S1: their website, febc. Uh, check that out. Well, joining me
S1: right now with the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. She's
S1: the queen of the questions. The person that puts all
S1: those questions into the mailbag. And you know, the way
S1: these questions come, Tricia, is, I mean, people send them
S1: all different ways, but I want to encourage people. The
S1: best way to send a question is to go to
S1: our website, openline radio.org. Click on that, and when you
S1: get there, there's a link that says Ask Michael a question.
S1: That's a great way to get your question in. So
S1: yes it is. And the the reason is, you know,
S1: it's so hard when people are sending it to Facebook
S1: or to different kinds of things. Instagram. The the result
S1: is that that you're trying to drag it from all
S1: over the place.
S4: Which I do. So if you do send it there,
S4: I do see those, just not maybe not quite as
S4: instantly as I do because the other ones go straight
S4: to my email inbox. Yeah. And so it's just easier.
S4: But I do find the others if you have put
S4: one there. Yeah I will.
S1: It may take a time. And that's why people write
S1: me and say, I asked this question about a month ago,
S1: but I haven't, you know.
S4: That's right.
S1: So I'm just looking out for you, Tricia. Thank you. Uh, well,
S1: let's go ahead with the question.
S4: All right. Our first question is from Mike in Indiana.
S4: Listens to. Could you please explain the dietary prohibitions found in.
S4: He gives three different references. Exodus 2319, Exodus 3426, and
S4: Deuteronomy 1421. Many thanks for your faithfulness and help in
S4: our biblical growth and understanding. Now, the first two Exodus
S4: verses are both very similar, almost identical, but they say
S4: something to the effect of bring the best of the
S4: firstfruits of your land to the house of the Lord
S4: your God. You must not boil a young goat in
S4: its mother's milk. And then the Deuteronomy 1421 passage includes
S4: the part about do not boil a young goat in
S4: its mother's milk. But before that it says, you are
S4: not to eat any carcass. You may give it to
S4: a temporary resident living within your gates, and he may
S4: eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner.
S4: For you are a holy people belonging to the Lord
S4: your God. You must not boil a young goat in
S4: its mother's milk. So we have two different prohibitions that
S4: don't eat any carcass, but you can give it to
S4: a temporary resident. And don't boil a young goat in
S4: its mother's milk.
S1: Right? Okay, so there's a lot to say about this.
S1: First of all, there's a whole aspect of kashrut or
S1: Jewish kosher law based on this, uh, this law. It's
S1: why Jewish people don't mix milk with meat because they thought,
S1: don't take a baby goat. This is how the rabbis
S1: developed this. Don't take a baby goat and boil it
S1: in its mother's milk. But then you might take, uh,
S1: another goat and baby goat. And it's not its own
S1: mother's milk. You think that's what it is? So it's okay,
S1: but it turns out to be it's mother's milk. You
S1: make a mistake. So they built a fence. No goat? No.
S1: No mother's milk at all. And then they said, well,
S1: you may think you're bringing a calf, not a goat.
S1: Turns out it is a goat, or it is, you know,
S1: and the next thing you know, they're building further and
S1: further out. Uh, no meat, no milk together. And then
S1: even more, even poultry and milk, you know? No. No
S1: chicken and milk at all. And you can't eat them together.
S1: If you eat meat, you have to wait a certain
S1: amount of hours for it to digest before you can
S1: eat a dairy product. Jewish people based on this law
S1: have separate sets of dishes, dairy dishes and meat dishes.
S1: And then of course, at Passover you have Passover dairy
S1: dishes and Passover meat dishes and utensils and things like that.
S1: So many Orthodox Jewish homes have like two ovens, two refrigerators.
S4: They cook them separately.
S1: To keep dairy and meat separately.
S4: Okay. Pots and pans?
S1: Yes.
S4: Okay.
S1: Absolutely.
S4: Okay.
S1: And so, uh, that's a whole set of laws which
S1: is filling out the rabbinic law of building fences around
S1: the law. The idea is you build a fence so
S1: that you can't break the actual law. You build more
S1: laws and laws and laws outside of it. And and
S1: so that's going on. I don't think that's the right
S1: way to interpret this verse. Many people think, I think mistakenly,
S1: that this is a verse that about not boiling a
S1: baby goat in its mother's milk is about, uh, a
S1: Canaanite practice that's pagan, and that, uh, what Moses was
S1: forbidding here was to engage in Canaanite worship practices. The
S1: problem is that the earliest record we have of a
S1: pagan using this kind of baby goat, or baby animal
S1: in its own mother's milk, goes to the seventh century BC.
S1: Moses is writing at 1400 BC, and so it's unlikely
S1: that that was in his mind. I think the best
S1: interpretation of that verse is as part of your worship practice,
S1: you know, firstfruits. People think, okay, I bring my first fruit. Uh,
S1: maybe I would bring the firstborn baby. Uh, also as
S1: a sacrifice. Mhm. And basically what that is saying don't
S1: boil a baby goat and it uses an idiom in
S1: its mother's milk, meaning unweaned still nursing. Don't bring a
S1: baby goat that is unweaned as a sacrifice. And the
S1: reason is to show compassion on both the well. Compassion
S1: primarily on on the mother goat. You don't rip the
S1: baby from her and offer it. And so that to
S1: me is what I think is the best interpretation of that.
S1: And then the, the principle that would abide is to
S1: show compassion and concern for animals, not just treat them
S1: as as nothing or not having concern for them. Uh,
S1: a person cares for the life of his beast. That's
S1: the Proverbs teach. And so that's the principle, I think,
S1: that governs us. As for the animal, there's a based
S1: on the, the, the carcass of an animal. If an
S1: animal dies of its own accord, the law prohibited eating it.
S1: And it's still today in Judaism. You cannot eat an
S1: animal that that died some other way other than through
S1: ritual slaughter. And so that's always been the case. And
S1: the reason was for protection, health of the individual not
S1: to use a carcass. And, uh, there has to be
S1: also concern for the animal with the ritual slaughter done
S1: in the most humane possible way and most humane way possible.
S1: And so. But God does say like. And you. I
S1: think when we were talking about this once, Tricia, you
S1: said so, uh, Israel would not have been allowed to eat. Uh.
S1: What did you say?
S4: A deer? A deer that got hit by a car
S4: on the side of the road.
S1: Yeah, couldn't do that. But if someone else hits a deer,
S1: they get to pack it up and. Yeah. And so
S1: it was against the law for Israelites.
S4: Okay. And even I think within that verse in Deuteronomy 1421,
S4: it says, for you are a holy people belonging to
S4: the Lord your God, that there is this is why,
S4: you know, it's not just a random rule that God
S4: was putting into place, but there was a reason for
S4: this specific law. And even all of the laws that
S4: he was giving them.
S1: All the kosher laws were designed to make Israel distinct
S1: in how they ate. That's where we get the verse
S1: in Leviticus 11. After the kosher laws were given, you
S1: are to be holy, for I am holy. So it's
S1: it was. You're to be distinct. Different because I am separate.
S1: That's it.
S4: And you are to be separate also.
S1: Let's do another one. All right. Let's see if we.
S4: Can get one more question here. Let's try. Um, Lois
S4: in Illinois listens to WNBA. Uh, this summer, we will
S4: be having a family reunion weekend for our large family.
S4: Two of the couples attending are believers in Jesus, but
S4: living together without the benefit of marriage. I read first
S4: Corinthians five nine through 11, and I want to know
S4: how I should handle this situation in light of that
S4: which says, I wrote to you in a letter not
S4: to associate with sexually immoral people. I did not mean
S4: the immoral people of this world, or the greedy and
S4: swindlers or idolaters. Otherwise you would have to leave the world.
S4: But now I am writing you not to associate with
S4: anyone who claims to be a believer, who is sexually
S4: immoral or greedy, an idolater or verbally abusive, a drunkard
S4: or a swindler do not even eat with such a person.
S1: Yeah, I think it would be. It's important, I important.
S1: I think I would be slow to answer this on
S1: the radio. I'll give some opinions, but I think mostly
S1: this is a question to talk about with someone personally,
S1: like a pastor, because I would ask more questions, I
S1: would want to know more. But first of all, I
S1: think when Paul gives this limitation, it's believers who are
S1: openly professing their faith in church, and they're now under
S1: church discipline for their behavior. As far as I can tell,
S1: these people that are being spoken of, that are living
S1: together are not in church, and they are not under
S1: church discipline. So that's one thing. Also, when you read
S1: that verse in first Corinthians five, it says, anyone professing
S1: to be a believer, anyone who claims to be a believer.
S1: Now she says, I think they're believers, but are they
S1: claiming it any longer? I don't know, that's a question
S1: I would ask. And also, if all those things were true,
S1: I'm not sure that it applies to family. It may
S1: apply to someone that you go to church with, but
S1: not necessarily a family member that there are. You know,
S1: we have to engage with family in a different way,
S1: for example, than we would with just general people in
S1: the church. And so there are a lot of questions
S1: that I would have. And just on the surface, I
S1: would say that it's okay to go to the wedding
S1: because I'm not sure this verse applies in this circumstance or.
S4: To the family reunion. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S1: A wedding or whatever event that they're going to go to.
S4: Okay.
S1: All right. Family reunion.
S4: All right. Okay.
S1: Thank you. Well, listen, thank you for being part of
S1: the team. I think it's one of my favorite aspects
S1: of doing Open Line is doing it together with you
S1: and others. It's such a great benefit and blessing to me.
S1: And I love every member of the team. Everyone that listens.
S1: I appreciate meeting our kitchen table partners. I was in
S1: an event last week with a bunch of people and
S1: they all said that, oh, not all, but many of
S1: them there said, I'm a kitchen table partner. I'm a
S1: kitchen table partner, and I appreciate everyone. That is, people
S1: who give monthly to be part of the team so
S1: we can be on the air weekly. And if you're
S1: interested in becoming a kitchen table partner, I'd appreciate it.
S1: All you'd have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or go
S1: to open line radio.com. And you can become a kitchen
S1: table partner there. And as a special blessing and benefit
S1: and a gift that we want to give to those
S1: of you who are kitchen table partners, we prepare a
S1: Bible study moment, Tricia and I, and we send it
S1: out every other week. It's about a ten minute digital
S1: Bible study, audio Bible study that you can hear in
S1: your your email. You click on it in your email
S1: and you get to hear it. And I hope you
S1: enjoy those. Uh, again, if you want to become a
S1: kitchen table partner. Uh, call (888) 644-7122 or go to open
S1: line radio.org. Well, thanks for bringing those questions in, Tricia.
S1: And being part of the team, we're going to be
S1: back next hour with more questions. This is that was
S1: Tricia McMillan. I'm Michael Rudnick, and we'll be back with
S1: more of your questions in just a moment. Stay with us.
S1: Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael Rey Dominik, glad
S1: to be with you. A couple of things I need
S1: to mention before we go back to the phones. I
S1: just want to mention real quickly, it's the end of
S1: the fiscal year for Moody Bible Institute and your help
S1: at this time with your generous gift will be go
S1: a long way to making Moodie solvent and strong for
S1: the future. Really appreciate all the generosity, but the main
S1: reason I appreciate gifts is because I get to send
S1: you something. Our current resource is just so terrific. Uh,
S1: it's called the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. When you are reading
S1: the Bible and you see a name or a place
S1: or an event and you think, what's that about? Everyone
S1: should have a Bible study library. And the Ultimate Bible
S1: Dictionary is a real handy little book that you can
S1: look those things up, you can find those items, and
S1: it's what we want to send you as a thank
S1: you for any gift that you send. And we're so
S1: appreciative of your your generosity that we want to give
S1: you this as a thank you. If you'd like to
S1: give a gift for a gift of any size, we'll
S1: send you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary. Just call 44. 7122
S1: or go to our website openline. radio.org. And as I
S1: mentioned in the first and second segments of the program today,
S1: if you didn't listen to it, my interview with Avner Boesky,
S1: you can go back and listen to the podcast or
S1: listen on the Moody Radio app, or go online and
S1: listen by going to Openline radio org. There's all sorts
S1: of ways you can catch those first two segments. But
S1: Israel's in a war, a war that the nation didn't want.
S1: And as I see the images of Iranian ballistic missiles
S1: landing in Tel Aviv, it breaks my heart. And I wonder,
S1: what's the future? Well Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners,
S1: is offering a book called Israel's Glorious Future. The book
S1: shows God's faithfulness to Israel as found in the Bible,
S1: and gives a great picture of what the future holds
S1: for Israel, despite its current difficulties. If you'd like a
S1: free copy of Israel's Glorious Future. Just go to Open
S1: Line radio.org. That's our website, Open Line radio.org. Click on
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S1: and you'll be sent to a page where you can
S1: sign up for your own copy of Israel's Glorious Future.
S1: We're going to talk to Dan in Scottsdale, Arizona, listening
S1: on Wmbi. Well, online. Welcome to Open Line. Dan, how
S1: can I help you today?
S5: Yes. My question is about the Pentateuch, the Torah. Um,
S5: is that the only book that the Jewish people have,
S5: or do they have more of, like the books from
S5: the Old Testament of the Bible?
S1: Yeah, Jewish people have the Hebrew Bible, the Old Testament,
S1: we call it, uh, Jewish people call it the Hebrew
S1: Bible or the Tanakh. They take the first part of it,
S1: the Torah, take the T from that. Uh, then prophets
S1: Nevi'im is the Hebrew word. Take the n from that,
S1: and then to Veeam. And that's the writings. And they
S1: say they take those three letters and they make the
S1: word Tanakh, and that's the Hebrew Bible. In addition, they
S1: have the Mishnah and the Gemara, which are that's rabbinic literature. Uh,
S1: they have the Midrash, which are rabbinic commentaries. Uh, they
S1: have many other books, targums which are rabbinic paraphrases of
S1: the Hebrew Bible. So there's a great deal. That's why
S1: the Jewish people are obviously the people of the book. Okay. Dan.
S5: Okay. And they do have the book of Isaiah, too.
S1: Absolutely, absolutely.
S5: Okay. Yeah. Okay.
S3: Great.
S1: Yeah. That's why Dan, uh uh, we I often will
S1: point out messianic prophecy in the Hebrew Bible to my
S1: Jewish family and friends. Uh, it shows them that it
S1: reveals Yeshua Jesus as the Messiah, and I use the
S1: Hebrew Bible to do that. Uh, thanks for your call, Dan.
S1: We're going to talk to Tanya and Joel, two people, uh,
S1: listening in Ohio. Welcome to Open Line, Tanya. How can
S1: I help you today?
S6: So Joel's talking to you.
S1: Okay, great. Okay.
S6: What's our proper understanding of Mordecai and Hadassah? Um, are
S6: they heroes of the faith? Are they functional atheists in
S6: a pagan society that manages to be used by God anyway?
S1: Why would you think that they're atheists?
S6: That's what our pastor is preaching through right now in
S6: the book of Esther.
S1: And that's what he said.
S6: Yes.
S1: Uh, you know what your dear pastor, I think is
S1: misunderstanding the book. Uh, the point of this book. The
S1: point of the book is to teach the providence of God.
S1: Providence is God's care and protection and action on behalf
S1: of those who who love him. Working everything out even
S1: when he's using normal human events. It's the great coincidences
S1: of life. Like Mordecai overhearing about the plot against the king,
S1: or Esther finding favor and all those different ways. So
S1: if they were functional atheists, she would not have called
S1: for a fast. Mordecai would not have called for her
S1: to take a stand for her people. Esther's people. So, uh,
S1: the thing is, it's a literary device to leave God's
S1: name out, that even when the nation of Israel had
S1: forgotten God, and generally speaking, the people in captivity were
S1: assimilating and not really being a tight, tight in their
S1: following of the Lord. Even when that happens, God still
S1: stays with his people when people forget God. God does
S1: not forget them when he's got covenant promises. So that's
S1: the point of the book. But don't make spiritual judgments
S1: about Mordecai and Esther because no, they they were obviously
S1: committed followers of the God of Israel. Well, that's the
S1: first hour, folks. Second hour of Open Line is coming
S1: up on most of these stations. Hope you can listen in. Uh,
S1: if if you can't on your station, you can always
S1: check out Open Line radio.org or or the Moody Radio app.
S1: The Bible study across America will continue in just a moment,
S1: so stay with us. Open line with Doctor Michael Melnick
S1: is a production of Moody Radio, the ministry of Moody
S1: Bible Institute. We'll be right back. So stay right there.