WEBVTT - Hour 2: Study the Bible with Two Michaels 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.050 Hello friends. It's time for the second hour of Open 0:00:12.050 --> 0:00:16.070 Line with me. Michael Radonich. This is Moody Radio's Bible 0:00:16.070 --> 0:00:21.020 study Across America. We're talking about your questions about the Bible, 0:00:21.050 --> 0:00:24.710 God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Radonich. 0:00:24.739 --> 0:00:28.190 As I said, academic dean and professor of Jewish studies 0:00:28.190 --> 0:00:32.180 and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. We're live today sitting 0:00:32.180 --> 0:00:36.769 around the radio kitchen table here in Orange County, California. 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:41.480 I'm here with my friend and a pastor, doctor, Mike Faber. 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:46.580 He's the regular substitute host guest host on Open Line. 0:00:46.850 --> 0:00:57.890 Time to give us a call. 87754836758775483675. If you can't call, 0:00:57.890 --> 0:01:00.750 just go to our website open line radio. Org click 0:01:00.750 --> 0:01:04.020 on the Ask Michael a question link. There you can 0:01:04.020 --> 0:01:06.929 post your question. I hope you have your Bibles open. 0:01:06.930 --> 0:01:10.080 I'm about to get my second cup of coffee. Hope 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.080 you're getting yours as well. We're ready to talk about 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:16.830 the scriptures together again. Mike Faber is pastor Mike Faber 0:01:16.980 --> 0:01:20.280 of Compass Bible Church. Focal Point Radio is here with me. 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.920 You know him because he answers questions on Open Line 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.620 pretty regularly. We're really grateful that he sits in for 0:01:25.620 --> 0:01:28.920 me when I can't be there. And we're going to 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.410 go right back to the phones. Now we're going to 0:01:31.410 --> 0:01:39.179 talk with, uh, Susan, uh, in Florida listening on keys. 0:01:39.180 --> 0:01:42.270 Welcome to Open Line. Susan, how can I help you? 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.580 Oh, hi. Can you hear me? 0:01:44.610 --> 0:01:46.290 Yeah. How can we help you? 0:01:46.830 --> 0:01:49.170 Okay. You got it. You got it. Okay. Can you. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.500 Are you out in the wind? What are you doing there? 0:01:53.850 --> 0:01:57.540 Oh. I'm sorry. Oh, gosh. Uh. Let's see. Is that 0:01:57.540 --> 0:01:58.380 any better? 0:01:58.410 --> 0:02:00.330 No. Just go ahead with your question and we'll turn 0:02:00.330 --> 0:02:01.080 you down. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:07.710 Okay. I'm so sorry. Um. It's okay. I was wondering, um, 0:02:08.070 --> 0:02:11.309 I know there's the rapture and then the thousand year reign. 0:02:11.310 --> 0:02:14.340 The millennium, and then a new heaven and a new earth. 0:02:14.490 --> 0:02:18.750 I've heard in the millennium that people will be able 0:02:18.750 --> 0:02:24.840 to be married and have children. And so I was wondering, 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.860 when do we get a glorified body? Because when we 0:02:28.860 --> 0:02:31.680 get a glorified body, we'll be like the angels, neither 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.160 male nor female. So, um, you would have to be 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:38.220 male or female to have children. So when do we 0:02:38.220 --> 0:02:41.070 get a glorified body or how does that work? Yeah. Okay. 0:02:41.130 --> 0:02:44.010 So there's going to be two people. Okay. Let's we're 0:02:44.010 --> 0:02:46.200 going to start. You keep listening, Susan, but we've got 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.260 to turn you down. Uh, the question is, how do 0:02:49.260 --> 0:02:54.210 we have people who will receive glorified bodies in the 0:02:54.210 --> 0:02:59.679 millennium and then also have families in Isaiah 65. It 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:03.220 talks about what it's going to be like in the millennium. 0:03:03.220 --> 0:03:10.990 And there it talks about if someone dies at 100, 0:03:11.020 --> 0:03:15.040 they will be considered young. It says in verse 20, indeed, 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.590 the youth will die at a hundred years, and one 0:03:17.620 --> 0:03:20.590 who misses a hundred years is someone that's actually cursed. 0:03:20.830 --> 0:03:24.430 And there will be people who will give birth and 0:03:24.430 --> 0:03:28.510 and have families in the millennium. So here's how I 0:03:28.510 --> 0:03:33.670 understand it. First of all, those of us who believed 0:03:33.669 --> 0:03:37.420 in the Lord Jesus during the time of the church, 0:03:37.420 --> 0:03:43.210 we will be raptured if we're alive or resurrected first. 0:03:43.390 --> 0:03:48.340 If we have died in the Messiah Jesus, then at 0:03:48.340 --> 0:03:51.820 the end of the tribulation, we're going to see the 0:03:51.850 --> 0:03:54.550 judgment of the Gentiles. The judgment of the sheep and 0:03:54.550 --> 0:03:57.230 the goats and the sheep will enter the millennium, but 0:03:57.230 --> 0:04:02.750 they won't have glorified bodies, and Israel will believe those 0:04:02.750 --> 0:04:07.070 who survive who are Israel will be purged. But at 0:04:07.070 --> 0:04:10.190 the end, most of all, when it says all Israel 0:04:10.190 --> 0:04:13.190 will be saved, I think it means mostly all they 0:04:13.190 --> 0:04:16.610 will turn in faith to Jesus. Like Zechariah 1210 says, 0:04:16.610 --> 0:04:18.710 they're going to look upon the pierced one. They're going 0:04:18.710 --> 0:04:21.979 to mourn in repentance and put their trust in him. 0:04:21.980 --> 0:04:25.580 He's going to return and deliver them at the last battle. 0:04:25.580 --> 0:04:29.120 And so they will not be resurrected. They will be delivered. 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:33.320 So the, the, the people of Israel who have believed 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:38.120 are going to enter the kingdom, and also the sheep 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:42.440 and the goats, the sheep will enter the kingdom, and 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.680 they're the ones. Those are the people that will enter 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:50.000 into the kingdom without having been resurrected. Yet now the 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.370 question comes, I'm going to turn this over to Mike. 0:04:52.460 --> 0:04:55.339 There will be people will have to become believers in 0:04:55.339 --> 0:04:58.250 the millennium, and the Bible never says when they will 0:04:58.250 --> 0:05:01.010 receive their glorified bodies. Do you have a conjecture about 0:05:01.010 --> 0:05:02.060 when you think? 0:05:02.089 --> 0:05:04.760 Yeah, just to redouble what you're saying and to point 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:08.540 you to verse 23 of the same passage that doctor 0:05:08.540 --> 0:05:11.900 Ray Dolnick was just quoting, which talks about them bearing children, 0:05:11.900 --> 0:05:14.060 and they're going to be blessed. The offspring are going 0:05:14.089 --> 0:05:16.340 to be blessed. So we know there are children born 0:05:16.339 --> 0:05:20.120 in the Millennial Kingdom as precisely as as doctor Ray 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:24.080 Dolnick just said, we have the nations and Israel inhabiting 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:28.730 millennium for that period of time in unglorified bodies. And 0:05:28.730 --> 0:05:31.310 some people struggle with the difference between how can we 0:05:31.310 --> 0:05:34.160 interact if we're in glorified bodies that are in glorified bodies? 0:05:34.190 --> 0:05:37.250 Just think about Jesus after his resurrection. No problem having 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:41.480 fish with Peter by the shore there broiled fish. There's 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:44.900 no problem with him hanging out there in Jerusalem. Together, 0:05:44.930 --> 0:05:48.770 they have no trouble interacting as human beings because one 0:05:48.770 --> 0:05:51.920 is glorified and one is not. So at the end 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.600 of the Millennial Kingdom, we would assume that we're going 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.099 to have then a translation of these trusting who make 0:05:59.100 --> 0:06:01.169 it through this period of rebellion at the very end, 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.719 as it says in revelation chapter 20, very emphatically, there's 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:07.260 going to be a rebellion against the against Christ, against 0:06:07.260 --> 0:06:11.490 the people of God. And so after that we will 0:06:11.490 --> 0:06:14.790 assume without any specific data, that people then will get 0:06:14.790 --> 0:06:18.570 glorified bodies, because nothing's going to inherit the eternal state 0:06:18.570 --> 0:06:21.210 without being glorified, as First Corinthians 15 says, so that 0:06:21.210 --> 0:06:23.400 everyone's going to have to have a glorified body and 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.280 put on immortality, as Paul puts it. And that's going 0:06:26.310 --> 0:06:28.440 to probably take place at the very end of the 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.110 Millennial Kingdom after the rebellion takes place. 0:06:31.140 --> 0:06:34.710 Yep. That's it. So we're going to have sort of a, 0:06:34.710 --> 0:06:39.000 a two different populations living there at the same time. Uh, 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:42.180 those people who have been glorified and those people who 0:06:42.180 --> 0:06:46.830 have not yet been glorified, some of them will will 0:06:46.860 --> 0:06:49.920 obviously they'll have children. Those children will have to trust 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.470 the Lord. Those who enter the kingdom will have all 0:06:53.500 --> 0:07:00.010 trusted the Lord already. So. Okay. Does that help? She's been. 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:00.640 She hung up. 0:07:00.670 --> 0:07:01.810 Swept away in the wind. 0:07:01.810 --> 0:07:04.510 Swept away in the wind. Yeah. I hope you're okay. Uh, 0:07:04.510 --> 0:07:07.480 thanks for your call, Susan. Uh, we're going to talk 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:13.240 with Charlotte, listening on Wtxf in Cleveland, Ohio. Welcome to 0:07:13.270 --> 0:07:15.280 Open Line, Charlotte. How can we help you? 0:07:16.390 --> 0:07:20.710 Hi, doctor. Dolnick. Thank you for taking my call. Um, 0:07:20.710 --> 0:07:25.510 I would like clarification on Micah three nine through 12. Now, 0:07:25.510 --> 0:07:29.560 I have the moody commentary in front of me, and 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:35.050 my interpretation of what is written is that these verses 0:07:35.050 --> 0:07:42.670 speak of the pastors or priests taking bribes and using 0:07:42.670 --> 0:07:47.890 the pulpit for financial gain. And it says also that 0:07:47.890 --> 0:07:51.070 Christian leaders today should examine their motives for teaching the 0:07:51.070 --> 0:07:56.710 Word of God. Now my question is, am I correct 0:07:56.710 --> 0:08:04.060 in my interpretation? And does this these passages speak of equity? 0:08:06.190 --> 0:08:08.770 Well, what do you mean by equity. 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:14.560 In in the context of diversity, equity and inclusion? 0:08:15.580 --> 0:08:22.030 Okay. Well, the Bible never talks about equity in that sense, 0:08:22.030 --> 0:08:28.150 the way it's used in in current parlance, uh, today 0:08:28.420 --> 0:08:35.320 when people talk about equity, they're dealing with equal outcomes. Uh, 0:08:35.320 --> 0:08:39.070 the Bible does not talk about everyone having the same 0:08:39.100 --> 0:08:42.430 outcome in their life by any means. So there's no 0:08:42.429 --> 0:08:47.530 such no sense of equal outcomes. Obviously, here in America, 0:08:47.530 --> 0:08:50.099 one of the things that we've always stood for is 0:08:50.340 --> 0:08:56.730 that all people are created equal, meaning equality of opportunity 0:08:57.690 --> 0:09:03.630 and equity is really talking about equality of outcomes, that 0:09:03.630 --> 0:09:08.610 everyone should have the same outcome. It's it's the you know, 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:10.470 we see it in Little League. You know, everyone gets 0:09:10.470 --> 0:09:16.620 the the the award the participation award. And that's that's 0:09:16.620 --> 0:09:18.150 really not what the Bible is talking about. What this 0:09:18.179 --> 0:09:23.610 is talking about is leadership in, uh, Micah chapter three. 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.710 You want to talk about that. And Micah three, what's 0:09:25.710 --> 0:09:26.160 talking about? 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:29.309 Yeah, Micah three is a reminder of the fact in 0:09:29.309 --> 0:09:32.310 Judah that there was plenty of injustice taking place. And 0:09:32.309 --> 0:09:34.260 I think the moody commentary is right. A lot of 0:09:34.260 --> 0:09:37.350 these were the leaders, the priests who teach for a price. 0:09:37.350 --> 0:09:38.939 They were in it for the money. And I see 0:09:38.940 --> 0:09:41.550 that even now as I ask people to come and 0:09:41.550 --> 0:09:44.280 preach at conferences or in my church. And, you know, 0:09:44.309 --> 0:09:46.260 I can tell you this for all the preachers that 0:09:46.260 --> 0:09:49.970 I've had come here. I don't have any ask for money. 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.790 They don't say, well, I'll preach if you give me $1,000. 0:09:52.820 --> 0:09:56.000 No one says that. So that to me is a 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.160 good sign that I don't have people that fit the 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.860 bill of this problem that they had in the Old Testament. 0:10:00.860 --> 0:10:05.990 But doctor Ray Dolnick is right that equality is different 0:10:05.990 --> 0:10:08.360 than equality. And I know that God doesn't believe in 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.240 equality because I've been to the gym and I know, 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:14.600 I know that there are people that are stronger than others. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:16.400 I've been to the shopping center. I know people that 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.559 are more attractive than others, and I've been to the university. 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:20.810 I know people are smarter than others. God does not 0:10:20.809 --> 0:10:24.320 dish out beauty, brains and brawn all the same. There's 0:10:24.350 --> 0:10:26.060 a variety, and so there's going to be a variety 0:10:26.059 --> 0:10:29.270 of economic strata in our day and power and authority. 0:10:29.270 --> 0:10:31.280 That's just going to be the way that it is. 0:10:31.309 --> 0:10:35.480 And God, there are distinctions, but God makes those distinctions 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:38.750 in his wisdom and sovereignty. And we have to recognize, 0:10:38.750 --> 0:10:41.460 I can't make everyone I can't have, you know, four 0:10:41.460 --> 0:10:46.150 foot ten Asians in the in the National Basketball League 0:10:46.150 --> 0:10:49.300 that are represented with everybody else. We're going to this 0:10:49.300 --> 0:10:51.340 is going to be based on who can play basketball 0:10:51.340 --> 0:10:54.310 the best. And at the university who's who's going to 0:10:54.340 --> 0:10:57.280 achieve the best. And in as a surgeon for my 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.460 wife or myself who can operate the best. So there's 0:11:00.460 --> 0:11:03.610 going to be distinction and God's variety is spelled out 0:11:03.610 --> 0:11:06.550 that way. So justice is different. Everyone is treated as 0:11:06.550 --> 0:11:08.290 people made in the image of God. We treat them 0:11:08.290 --> 0:11:11.080 with respect. They're all of equal value in the sense 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.960 that they're made as God's creatures. But when it comes 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.420 to what roles they play in society, or how much 0:11:16.420 --> 0:11:19.540 money they make or how they achieve in whatever industry 0:11:19.540 --> 0:11:22.030 they're in, it's always going to be varied. And that's 0:11:22.030 --> 0:11:23.770 the way God is set up this world. 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:28.120 Yeah. And just, uh, what we're going to just to 0:11:28.150 --> 0:11:32.679 to remind you, uh, even the New Testament teaches about leadership, 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.810 not doing it for the money. It talks about shepherd, 0:11:34.809 --> 0:11:38.710 God's flock among you, not overseeing out of compulsion, but 0:11:38.710 --> 0:11:42.819 freely according to God's will. Not for the money, but 0:11:42.820 --> 0:11:46.059 for the ministry. That's why we serve God. And that's 0:11:46.059 --> 0:11:49.000 the same principle that that Micah was talking about. We're 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:51.400 going to come back. Thanks for your call. We're going 0:11:51.429 --> 0:11:53.320 to be right back with more of your questions right 0:11:53.320 --> 0:12:08.740 here on Open Line. Stay with us. Welcome back to 0:12:08.770 --> 0:12:12.910 Open Line. I'm here with doctor Mike Bowers, and also 0:12:12.910 --> 0:12:15.760 I'm Michael Ray Dolnick. And we are trying our best 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:18.670 to answer your questions about the Bible, God and the 0:12:18.670 --> 0:12:22.120 spiritual life. Sometimes when you have a question, it might 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.000 be because you're reading the scriptures and you say, boy, 0:12:25.030 --> 0:12:27.580 I wish I had the Moody Bible Commentary to help 0:12:27.580 --> 0:12:30.070 me out here. And that's kind of big. I joke 0:12:30.070 --> 0:12:32.560 around with people and say, I love the Moody Bible Commentary, 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.320 because you can use it as a coffee table if 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.660 you're not using it to read at some times. And 0:12:37.660 --> 0:12:43.090 sometimes it would be nice just to have a small, uh, 0:12:43.390 --> 0:12:46.839 Excerpt of the Moodie Commentary. And that's exactly what we're 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:51.430 providing as our current resource. Galatians. Ephesians. Philippians. Colossians. Written 0:12:51.429 --> 0:12:55.300 by doctor Jerry Peterman. We've excerpted that, and we would 0:12:55.300 --> 0:12:58.240 like to give it to you as a resource that 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:03.790 you can use, because there's great and profound truth inside 0:13:03.790 --> 0:13:07.900 of Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians. And you might need 0:13:07.900 --> 0:13:11.530 a little help mining that, digging it out. And that's 0:13:11.530 --> 0:13:15.910 what Doctor Peterman's commentaries did. So if you'd like a copy, 0:13:15.910 --> 0:13:17.770 all you have to do is give a gift of 0:13:17.770 --> 0:13:19.780 any size. We'd like to send it to you as 0:13:19.780 --> 0:13:22.420 a way of saying thank you. We'll send you this 0:13:22.420 --> 0:13:25.750 excerpt from the Moody Bible Commentary. It will really help you, 0:13:25.750 --> 0:13:28.870 especially if you're reading those books. You'll find them really, 0:13:28.870 --> 0:13:34.809 really helpful to understand and apply those books in your life. Uh, 0:13:34.809 --> 0:13:37.839 how is it that you can give your gift of 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:42.679 any size? All you have to do is, uh, call 0:13:42.710 --> 0:13:56.390 (888) 644-7122 or visit open line radio.org. Uh (888) 644-7122 or open 0:13:56.390 --> 0:13:59.809 line radio.org. And we so appreciate every gift. And we 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.210 want to send you this excerpt from the Moody Bible 0:14:02.210 --> 0:14:06.500 Commentary just to say thank you. Uh, well, we're going 0:14:06.530 --> 0:14:14.930 to talk to JC, uh, who is calling from California 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:20.360 listening on the internet. Good morning JC. How are you? 0:14:20.870 --> 0:14:22.640 Good. Good. How are you? 0:14:22.790 --> 0:14:25.820 Great. So, are you listening all by yourself, or are 0:14:25.820 --> 0:14:27.800 you listening with your mom or dad? 0:14:28.820 --> 0:14:29.600 My dad. 0:14:29.750 --> 0:14:33.440 Your dad does. Does do you guys go to Compass 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:39.530 Bible Church? Yes you do. I figured that's why your 0:14:39.530 --> 0:14:42.460 dad was listening in. He wants to hear what pastor 0:14:42.460 --> 0:14:46.000 Mike has to say, right? Uh. How old? How old 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:47.110 are you, Jesse? 0:14:47.980 --> 0:14:49.180 I'm nine. 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.160 And what grade are you in? 0:14:52.510 --> 0:14:54.070 I'm in fourth grade. 0:14:54.490 --> 0:14:57.400 Really? And do you. Do you have a favorite subject 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:58.390 in fourth grade? 0:15:00.070 --> 0:15:02.350 Um. Not really. 0:15:02.860 --> 0:15:05.020 No. Do you like to read? 0:15:05.050 --> 0:15:07.000 Yeah. No. Yeah. 0:15:07.030 --> 0:15:11.140 Do you. Do you have a favorite book? Yes. What's that? 0:15:11.170 --> 0:15:14.410 Uh, secret of the Hidden Scrolls. 0:15:14.470 --> 0:15:17.680 Oh. That's great. Great. Well, I see you have a 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:20.920 question about the Bible, so go ahead with your question. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:22.030 What can we do for you? 0:15:23.230 --> 0:15:26.680 Well, where was the Garden of Eden located? 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:31.240 Uh, I was kind of hoping it would be in 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:37.390 my backyard, but it's not. I have to say. Uh, uh, 0:15:38.500 --> 0:15:43.020 you know, There's some people. I really don't know what 0:15:43.020 --> 0:15:45.510 pastor Mike thinks. I'm going to say what I think. Okay. 0:15:45.540 --> 0:15:49.350 Some people believe it was in Babylon, but I don't 0:15:49.350 --> 0:15:53.280 think so. I'm never going to be dogmatic about it. 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.550 But when I look at the boundaries in the book 0:15:56.550 --> 0:15:59.010 of Genesis, there's a couple of rivers that are mentioned 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.490 that we don't know where they were. But then it 0:16:02.490 --> 0:16:06.150 does say that it's somewhere between the Nile and the 0:16:06.150 --> 0:16:12.030 Euphrates River. So it says this in Genesis two, a 0:16:12.030 --> 0:16:15.330 river went out from Eden to water the garden. From 0:16:15.330 --> 0:16:18.600 there it divided and became the source of four rivers. 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.390 The name of the first is Pishon, which flows from 0:16:21.390 --> 0:16:25.230 the entire land of Havilah. We don't know where that is. Uh, 0:16:25.230 --> 0:16:28.410 it says the name of the second is Gihon, which 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.280 flows through the entire land of Cush. Now we know 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.550 that's in Africa. The name of the third is the 0:16:35.550 --> 0:16:40.030 Tigris and the. And Assyria. And the fourth is Euphrates. 0:16:40.030 --> 0:16:49.870 So it's between Africa and, uh, and Babylon or Iraq today. Well, 0:16:49.870 --> 0:16:54.010 what country is between Africa and Iraq? I would say 0:16:54.010 --> 0:16:58.030 it was in the Promised Land in Israel. And so, 0:16:58.030 --> 0:17:02.830 in my opinion, uh, it was probably in the land 0:17:02.830 --> 0:17:07.090 of Israel. Uh, that's where God had the Garden of Eden. 0:17:07.090 --> 0:17:09.580 But I would never be dogmatic. That's what I think 0:17:09.580 --> 0:17:13.119 it was. Uh, what do you think, pastor Mike? 0:17:13.150 --> 0:17:16.450 Well, I think it's really hard for us to identify 0:17:16.450 --> 0:17:20.530 anything on a map prior to the flood, because the 0:17:20.530 --> 0:17:24.520 flood was such a major disruption of our land and 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:29.379 our planet that I think these names of these rivers, 0:17:29.380 --> 0:17:32.889 maybe they did have some correspondence to the world and 0:17:32.890 --> 0:17:35.230 what it looked like after the flood. But I think 0:17:35.230 --> 0:17:37.880 that's why everyone who's tried to identify where the Garden 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.669 of Eden was, they've really just are guessing at it. 0:17:40.670 --> 0:17:44.360 And we don't know. But knowing God, I probably would 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.440 be with Doctor Riddell that I wouldn't doubt that it 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:50.570 was right. I mean, maybe the tree of the Knowledge 0:17:50.570 --> 0:17:52.100 of Good and evil was right in the center of 0:17:52.100 --> 0:17:55.970 the Temple Mount for all I know, because it's like 0:17:55.970 --> 0:17:57.889 a bowling ball. If you have a bowling ball and 0:17:57.890 --> 0:17:59.780 you pick the coordinate on the bowling ball and you 0:17:59.960 --> 0:18:02.149 put a sticker on it, for instance, and said, here's 0:18:02.150 --> 0:18:04.189 where the Garden of Eden was, I think all of 0:18:04.190 --> 0:18:08.330 the map around that spot was probably very different after 0:18:08.330 --> 0:18:11.720 the flood. So before and after is hard to say. 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.420 And the river names, it's just like Doctor Riddell. Nick's 0:18:14.420 --> 0:18:16.400 name is Michael and my name is Michael. I think 0:18:16.430 --> 0:18:19.550 there's you could name different rivers with the same names, 0:18:19.550 --> 0:18:21.440 so it's hard to say. And I think that's why 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.420 all of us are guessing at where it was. 0:18:23.450 --> 0:18:26.629 But I would just say, you know, when you get 0:18:26.630 --> 0:18:28.820 older and get to visit Tel Aviv, you can say, well, 0:18:28.850 --> 0:18:34.460 somewhere around here maybe was the Garden of Eden. I'd 0:18:34.460 --> 0:18:37.699 like to find the little gateway entrance that says Garden 0:18:37.730 --> 0:18:40.310 of Eden, but I'm not sure I would trust that anyway. 0:18:40.490 --> 0:18:44.990 Uh jk. Okay. Uh, thank you so much for your call. 0:18:44.990 --> 0:18:47.359 I hope that helped a little bit. Okay. 0:18:47.930 --> 0:18:48.890 Thank you. 0:18:48.950 --> 0:18:53.659 Okay. Bye bye. Uh, we're going to we're going to 0:18:53.660 --> 0:18:57.679 talk with Mike in New Mexico. Uh, listening online. Welcome 0:18:57.680 --> 0:18:59.750 to Open Line. Mike. How can we help you? 0:19:01.040 --> 0:19:04.490 Hi, doctor. Thanks for taking my call. Hey, just a 0:19:04.490 --> 0:19:10.040 quick question. Um, so I have some Calvinistic reformed members 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.550 of our family, and I was when I became a Christian, 0:19:13.550 --> 0:19:17.840 I was baptized, you know, immersion. And they just had 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.469 a little baby that was baptized in eight days older. 0:19:21.500 --> 0:19:23.900 And I'm like, so do they need to be rebaptized? 0:19:23.900 --> 0:19:27.139 Once they become believers? They said, oh, no, they they 0:19:27.140 --> 0:19:32.600 get baptized because it's it's like circumcision was in the, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:38.010 The Abrahamic Abrahamic covenant. I'm like, really? So I want 0:19:38.010 --> 0:19:43.890 to know what your thoughts are on circumcision and how 0:19:43.890 --> 0:19:46.050 it relates to infant baptism. 0:19:47.250 --> 0:19:52.619 Okay. Well, let me just say I don't like arguing 0:19:52.619 --> 0:19:57.090 with people over baptism. You know, there's some people that sprinkle, 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:02.700 some people that immerse, some people that are poor. There's 0:20:02.700 --> 0:20:07.560 all these different kinds of ways. Uh, even with immersion, 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.280 there are some people that bend three times. Uh, there 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.970 are other people who have the pastor or someone hold 0:20:14.970 --> 0:20:17.370 them backwards into the water and bring them up. There's 0:20:17.369 --> 0:20:20.429 all these different things, and I certainly don't want to 0:20:20.430 --> 0:20:24.240 go to war about that. The basis of saying it's 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:29.400 like baptism is from Colossians chapter two, and I think 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:35.080 it misunderstands that it's like circumcision, that it misunderstands what 0:20:35.080 --> 0:20:39.940 that's saying. It talks about when the Colossians came to faith. 0:20:39.940 --> 0:20:43.239 It says you are also circumcised in him with a 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:48.459 circumcision not done with hands by putting off the body 0:20:48.460 --> 0:20:52.960 of flesh in the circumcision of the Messiah. That's basically saying, listen, 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:55.510 you got a circumcised heart when you put your trust 0:20:55.510 --> 0:20:59.770 in Jesus, a spiritual circumcision. It's what Jeremiah told Israel 0:20:59.770 --> 0:21:03.820 that they had to have. Uh, it's a it's the 0:21:03.820 --> 0:21:07.930 new covenant that that when we trust that Jesus died 0:21:07.930 --> 0:21:11.740 for our sins and rose again, we get a circumcised heart. 0:21:11.770 --> 0:21:18.340 And of course, that happens when someone believes instantly. So 0:21:18.340 --> 0:21:22.360 that's all it's talking about there in Colossians chapter two, 0:21:22.390 --> 0:21:25.600 verse 11 about when they trusted in Jesus. And then 0:21:25.600 --> 0:21:29.410 he says about that time when they trusted in Jesus 0:21:29.410 --> 0:21:32.980 having been buried with him in baptism. You were also 0:21:32.980 --> 0:21:36.010 raised with him through faith in the working of God, 0:21:36.010 --> 0:21:38.530 who raised him from the dead. And when you were 0:21:38.530 --> 0:21:42.370 dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he 0:21:42.369 --> 0:21:46.510 made you alive with him, and forgave us all our trespasses. 0:21:46.510 --> 0:21:51.550 He erased the certificate of debt. Uh, the point being, 0:21:51.550 --> 0:21:54.820 when we believed all our sins were forgiven, we receive. 0:21:54.850 --> 0:22:00.940 Circumcised hearts. How did we express that faith? Through baptism. Uh. 0:22:00.940 --> 0:22:05.440 And so to me, it's just. It's not saying babies 0:22:05.440 --> 0:22:08.980 were being baptized. It's just saying that we received circumcised 0:22:08.980 --> 0:22:13.149 hearts when we believed, we expressed it through baptism. Now, 0:22:13.270 --> 0:22:16.330 pastor Mike, uh, is there any other verse that you 0:22:16.330 --> 0:22:19.959 know of that would people use to argue for infant baptism? 0:22:20.290 --> 0:22:20.979 That's the one I know. 0:22:21.010 --> 0:22:24.250 Of based on their covenant theology. And they try to 0:22:24.250 --> 0:22:28.810 compare entering into the covenant community of believers. And they say, 0:22:28.810 --> 0:22:30.590 how did you do that in the Old Testament? Well, 0:22:30.590 --> 0:22:34.129 you did it by being born biologically. And then you 0:22:34.130 --> 0:22:36.650 got circumcised. At least the males did. It's funny that 0:22:36.650 --> 0:22:40.640 we still baptized in covenantal churches, both the males and 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:43.280 the females. But the point is, I would say, how 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.950 do you join the covenant community in the New covenant age? Well, 0:22:45.950 --> 0:22:47.780 you do that by putting your trust in Christ being 0:22:47.780 --> 0:22:51.050 born again. So even if you do compare circumcision to 0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:55.399 being placed into Christ, as Doctor Redlich rightly said, and 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:58.160 Jeremiah says, you got to circumcise the foreskin of your heart. Well, 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.520 that's not done by hands, right? That's a God thing. 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.760 And that happens at your conversion. So you you make 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:08.570 disciples of all the nations, baptizing them that demonstrative pronoun, 0:23:08.570 --> 0:23:12.140 then point them points back to making disciples. How do 0:23:12.140 --> 0:23:14.510 I make a disciple? I don't have more kids. And 0:23:14.510 --> 0:23:16.760 then all of a sudden they become disciples. They have 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:18.860 to come to the place of repentance and faith, and 0:23:18.859 --> 0:23:21.980 then they become disciples of Christ. And then I baptize them. 0:23:21.980 --> 0:23:25.010 So I'm a believer in believer's baptism. That's what we 0:23:25.010 --> 0:23:28.570 call it. Credobaptism. Once someone puts their trust in Christ, 0:23:28.570 --> 0:23:31.660 they're now qualified to be baptized. Being born does not 0:23:31.660 --> 0:23:33.850 qualify you for baptism. The only way that would make 0:23:33.850 --> 0:23:35.919 sense is if you're a Roman Catholic and you believe 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:39.370 that baptism actually washes away your sin and makes you 0:23:39.369 --> 0:23:43.150 a Christian, then there might be some argument for infant baptism. 0:23:43.150 --> 0:23:45.070 But of course, we don't believe that because that's not 0:23:45.100 --> 0:23:48.100 what the Bible teaches. Therefore, we're going to say, I'm 0:23:48.100 --> 0:23:50.109 going to say that you put your trust in Christ 0:23:50.109 --> 0:23:53.350 and then you're qualified to be baptized. Not being physically born, 0:23:53.350 --> 0:23:54.280 but born again. 0:23:54.310 --> 0:23:57.400 Yeah. So, Mike, when I go to Israel, oftentimes people 0:23:57.400 --> 0:23:59.950 want to be baptized in the Jordan River and I 0:23:59.950 --> 0:24:03.129 will do some baptisms, but I call it the wider Jordan. 0:24:03.130 --> 0:24:05.619 I do it in the Sea of Galilee because the 0:24:05.890 --> 0:24:08.919 same water, but it's a little bit easier than the 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:11.860 Jordan River. But anyway, I do it there and I 0:24:11.859 --> 0:24:14.920 will meet with people to make sure they are believers. 0:24:14.920 --> 0:24:18.580 I strongly discourage people from being rebaptized if they've been 0:24:18.580 --> 0:24:22.690 baptized already. That that doesn't matter where it the the 0:24:22.690 --> 0:24:25.899 message is the same, the outward symbol is the same, 0:24:25.900 --> 0:24:28.260 so you don't have to be rebaptized. But then there 0:24:28.260 --> 0:24:35.490 are people. There are people who will say, uh, that, well, 0:24:35.490 --> 0:24:37.770 I was baptized as a baby, but came to the 0:24:37.770 --> 0:24:40.800 Lord as an adult. And for those I say, yes, 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:44.730 you do need to be rebaptized because, uh, all you 0:24:44.730 --> 0:24:47.280 had when you were a baby was water being sprinkled 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:50.159 or poured on you. You weren't really baptized in the 0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:53.399 sense of what the Bible teaches, which the word baptism 0:24:53.400 --> 0:25:00.359 means immersion. And also, uh, the idea is it expresses 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:03.300 your faith, which you didn't have as a baby. So 0:25:03.300 --> 0:25:07.170 I really do encourage people who, even from a really 0:25:07.170 --> 0:25:11.730 good believing reformed church, uh, I do encourage them, once 0:25:11.730 --> 0:25:16.440 they've become believers, to indeed be baptized, immersed in water 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:20.850 as an expression, an outward sign of their faith. Okay, Mike. 0:25:21.060 --> 0:25:23.429 I agree with you 100%. I agree 100%. Thank you very. 0:25:23.430 --> 0:25:25.730 Much. But let me let me just say one last thing. Mike, 0:25:25.730 --> 0:25:28.070 don't go to war with your family over this. There 0:25:28.070 --> 0:25:30.740 are better things to argue about. You know, I already have. 0:25:30.920 --> 0:25:34.969 No kidding. Okay. Thank you. That's good. Okay. Thanks for 0:25:34.970 --> 0:25:37.310 your call, Mike. And we're going to come right back 0:25:37.310 --> 0:25:40.550 with more of your questions. This is a special day 0:25:40.550 --> 0:25:44.570 here on Open Line. I've got a partner answering questions. 0:25:44.570 --> 0:25:46.190 I'm going to give him all the hard ones. Doctor 0:25:46.190 --> 0:25:48.859 Mike Fabares and me, Michael Radonich. We're going to be 0:25:48.859 --> 0:25:51.890 right back with the mailbag, so don't go away. This 0:25:51.890 --> 0:26:10.040 is Open Line on Moody Radio. Welcome back to Open Line. 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:13.070 I am so grateful to be here in California. The 0:26:13.070 --> 0:26:18.680 beautiful weather, the beautiful environment. And here are the great 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:22.850 facilities at Compass Bible Church with doctor Mike Fabares. Uh, 0:26:23.109 --> 0:26:28.930 I so appreciate all that the Lord has enabled me 0:26:28.930 --> 0:26:32.470 to do here, uh, to actually use these facilities. I 0:26:32.470 --> 0:26:37.030 appreciate the partnership with with pastor Mike and with compass, 0:26:37.030 --> 0:26:40.629 and I appreciate the partnership that we have with those 0:26:40.630 --> 0:26:44.199 of you who listen regularly. That's so great. And also, 0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:47.649 I so appreciate the partnership with those who have become 0:26:47.650 --> 0:26:51.250 kitchen table partners. Uh, they are so generous. They give 0:26:51.250 --> 0:26:54.040 every month so that we can be on the air 0:26:54.070 --> 0:26:57.850 every week answering Bible questions. And, you know, if you 0:26:57.850 --> 0:27:02.080 give $30 a month or more, you get access to 0:27:02.109 --> 0:27:07.750 the Moody Publishers, uh, catalog at 50% off for everything. 0:27:07.750 --> 0:27:13.900 That's just a phenomenal benefit. And so if you're interested 0:27:13.900 --> 0:27:18.340 in becoming a kitchen table partner and getting our, uh, 0:27:18.340 --> 0:27:21.970 every other week Bible study moment that's prepared exclusively for 0:27:21.970 --> 0:27:25.639 our kitchen table partners. Uh, it's just a brief Bible 0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:27.919 study that you click on in your email and listen to. 0:27:27.950 --> 0:27:30.290 If you'd like to become a kitchen table partner, we'd 0:27:30.290 --> 0:27:33.440 so appreciate it. Even if you've given a gift occasionally 0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:35.750 to receive our our resource. If you would like to 0:27:35.750 --> 0:27:38.810 become a kitchen table partner, that would be so great. Uh, 0:27:38.810 --> 0:27:42.500 if you've never even thought about giving to Moody Radio 0:27:42.500 --> 0:27:45.830 and Open Line, uh, we'd so appreciate it. All you 0:27:45.830 --> 0:27:51.500 have to do is call (888) 644-7122 or go to open 0:27:51.500 --> 0:27:58.280 line radio.org. And joining me right now is Tricia McMillan. 0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:01.880 Joining us. She is bringing the mailbag in. You know 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.220 the imagery that I have when you bring the mailbag 0:28:04.220 --> 0:28:06.830 I always think of it because Thanksgiving is coming up. Yes. 0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:11.330 Is the scene in miracle on 34th Street when they 0:28:11.330 --> 0:28:14.090 bring all the Santa letters and drop them on the 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:17.810 judge's desk and remember, they're carrying all those bags in. 0:28:17.810 --> 0:28:20.510 That's what I always imagine you doing when you're bringing 0:28:20.510 --> 0:28:22.500 the mailbag in. Okay. It's a great. 0:28:22.619 --> 0:28:23.369 Visual. 0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:26.580 Yeah. Everyone should know that visual if you've seen that movie. 0:28:26.760 --> 0:28:30.030 And who hasn't? That's what. Tricia looks like she's dragging 0:28:30.030 --> 0:28:33.090 those bags in with all the questions you've sent. 0:28:34.619 --> 0:28:37.200 Virtually. Yes, virtually. I'm doing that. Yeah. 0:28:38.580 --> 0:28:41.040 Okay, so what have you got for us? 0:28:41.070 --> 0:28:43.890 Okay, our first question is from Shelley in Illinois. She 0:28:43.890 --> 0:28:49.590 listens to WGN. In John three five. Jesus says, unless 0:28:49.590 --> 0:28:53.010 someone is born of water and the spirit, he cannot 0:28:53.010 --> 0:28:56.760 enter the kingdom of God. She says, I understand the spirit, 0:28:56.760 --> 0:29:00.360 but please explain the water. Thank you. I love this program. 0:29:01.020 --> 0:29:03.990 Oh I'm glad. Yes, that she loves the program because 0:29:03.990 --> 0:29:06.000 Doctor Wright Dolnick works so hard to make it a 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:10.440 lovable program. This question, I would just say because we're 0:29:10.440 --> 0:29:14.880 talking here, Jesus is talking to Nicodemus, a teacher of Israel. 0:29:14.910 --> 0:29:17.010 He should have known that if you're going to talk 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:21.300 about water and spirit, your brain as a seminary grad 0:29:21.300 --> 0:29:24.479 of the first century, should know Ezekiel 36, that the 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:28.469 coming promise of the New Testament age was all about 0:29:28.470 --> 0:29:32.250 you being, quote unquote, sprinkled with with water for the 0:29:32.250 --> 0:29:36.270 forgiveness of your sins and to have your heart filled 0:29:36.270 --> 0:29:39.090 with God's Spirit, spirit, and water in that passage. There's 0:29:39.090 --> 0:29:41.850 two symbols there. I don't put the spirit in my 0:29:41.850 --> 0:29:44.550 mouth or shove it in my ear. Right? This is 0:29:44.550 --> 0:29:47.790 something God does to make me connected to him on 0:29:47.790 --> 0:29:51.180 a profound level. The Spirit of God indwells me and 0:29:51.180 --> 0:29:54.450 I'm forgiven. And it's like taking a bath, right? I'm 0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:57.420 taking a shower. I'm getting clean. And while these are 0:29:57.420 --> 0:30:00.930 not references to water baptism because we know that's not 0:30:00.930 --> 0:30:04.410 the mechanism of our forgiveness, and it's not amniotic fluid 0:30:04.410 --> 0:30:05.970 that you have to be born. That would be kind 0:30:05.970 --> 0:30:08.190 of a silly thing to say. That's like saying you 0:30:08.190 --> 0:30:10.470 have to breathe air, or you have to eat food 0:30:10.470 --> 0:30:12.660 and be born of the spirit. And of course, we 0:30:12.660 --> 0:30:14.970 have to be born. I mean, that's just it's not 0:30:14.970 --> 0:30:18.580 a reference to being physically born. The idea of this 0:30:18.580 --> 0:30:21.490 birth that the Old Testament spoke of, that I would 0:30:21.490 --> 0:30:24.010 be made new. That God would give me a heart 0:30:24.040 --> 0:30:27.220 of flesh and not. This heart of stone was about 0:30:27.220 --> 0:30:31.300 God's work of forgiveness, typified by water and the filling 0:30:31.300 --> 0:30:35.380 and connection with God that's discussed in terms of his spirit. 0:30:35.380 --> 0:30:37.209 So I think that's what we're referring to, even though 0:30:37.210 --> 0:30:38.350 a lot of people like to say, well, this must 0:30:38.350 --> 0:30:41.500 be baptism or this must be the clear amniotic fluid 0:30:41.500 --> 0:30:43.210 when you're born into the world. I don't think it's 0:30:43.210 --> 0:30:45.550 either of those. It happens at the same time when 0:30:45.550 --> 0:30:48.610 someone calls out to the Lord with a penitent heart, 0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:52.930 they get born again with cleansing and with filling. 0:30:53.620 --> 0:30:58.630 But so, so do we need today to have that 0:30:58.690 --> 0:31:00.430 water sprinkling? 0:31:00.610 --> 0:31:04.720 Well, it does happen. It's called forgiveness. Our transgressions are 0:31:04.720 --> 0:31:06.520 removed from us as far as the East is from 0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:09.460 the West, because the Lord absorbed this Jesus Christ on 0:31:09.460 --> 0:31:12.550 a cross. And then he rose to vindicate that all 0:31:12.580 --> 0:31:15.220 of this work. So we do get cleansed. But it's 0:31:15.220 --> 0:31:17.750 not with literal water any more than I need a 0:31:17.750 --> 0:31:21.800 heart transplant. Literally, right? What I need is a new 0:31:21.830 --> 0:31:25.729 orientation to God, a forgiven spirit, and God's Spirit placed 0:31:25.730 --> 0:31:29.209 within me. So yeah, all you need to do is 0:31:29.210 --> 0:31:30.980 what Jesus said, which is to repent of your sins 0:31:30.980 --> 0:31:33.140 and put your trust in Jesus Christ. And then God 0:31:33.140 --> 0:31:36.350 does all of these things, cleanses you and fills you 0:31:36.350 --> 0:31:37.460 with His spirit. 0:31:37.910 --> 0:31:40.070 And you're born and born from above. That's right. 0:31:40.100 --> 0:31:42.469 Well, that's a new start. You get born from above, 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:44.210 not by the will of man, but by the will 0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:44.780 of God. 0:31:44.810 --> 0:31:48.080 Okay, so on a related note, Bonnie listens to our 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:51.350 podcast and said she's visited her son's church a few times, 0:31:51.350 --> 0:31:54.620 and his pastor has used the phrase baptism leading to 0:31:54.650 --> 0:31:58.940 repentance or being baptized for the remission of your sins 0:31:58.940 --> 0:32:01.850 as what is required of us to come to faith 0:32:01.850 --> 0:32:05.390 in Jesus. And she listened to several sermons. We went 0:32:05.390 --> 0:32:08.090 back and forth on this a few times, and she's like, okay, 0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:10.070 I've listened to more of his sermons, and this does 0:32:10.070 --> 0:32:12.800 seem to be what he's saying, but I'm not sure 0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:16.020 if he's referring to spiritual baptism by the Holy Spirit 0:32:16.020 --> 0:32:20.310 or water baptism. What could someone or what would someone 0:32:20.310 --> 0:32:21.960 mean by these phrases? 0:32:21.990 --> 0:32:25.440 Well, that's a quotation from acts chapter two. Yeah. So 0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:28.950 he's probably trying to talk about water baptism, but that 0:32:28.950 --> 0:32:32.280 is not the baptism that saves us. That's a baptism 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:36.420 that certainly symbolizes our being placed into Christ. And remember, 0:32:36.420 --> 0:32:40.050 the word baptism is a Greek word. It's transliterated baptism 0:32:40.050 --> 0:32:42.870 from the Greek word baptizo, and it means being placed 0:32:42.870 --> 0:32:45.840 into the Holy Spirit places us into a relationship with 0:32:45.840 --> 0:32:50.190 God in Christ, and we then are placed into water 0:32:50.190 --> 0:32:52.620 as an external sign of that. But there's a gap 0:32:52.620 --> 0:32:55.320 between those two, always a gap, whether it's an hour, 0:32:55.350 --> 0:32:58.380 a month, or a year, right? We get saved by 0:32:58.380 --> 0:33:00.870 being placed into Christ by the spirit. That's called baptism 0:33:00.870 --> 0:33:03.780 in John chapter six. We're placed into his death right 0:33:03.810 --> 0:33:05.580 where it's as though we died on the cross and 0:33:05.580 --> 0:33:08.970 our sins were absorbed and dealt with, and we're placed 0:33:08.970 --> 0:33:10.830 into water as an ordinance. 0:33:10.860 --> 0:33:15.450 Now, here's the thing about Uh, the phrase in acts 0:33:15.450 --> 0:33:18.180 238 where he says, repent, and each of you be 0:33:18.180 --> 0:33:25.350 baptized for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive 0:33:25.350 --> 0:33:28.530 the gift of the Holy Spirit. The idea there is 0:33:28.530 --> 0:33:31.560 the repentance is what he's saying to everyone. And then 0:33:31.560 --> 0:33:34.860 the idea of being that's a plural, actually a plural command. 0:33:34.860 --> 0:33:40.560 And then to be baptized is singular, meaning all of 0:33:40.560 --> 0:33:43.980 you repent. And if you choose to repent, if you 0:33:43.980 --> 0:33:49.050 turn in faith to Jesus, then that individual should be baptized. 0:33:49.050 --> 0:33:53.460 As a result of that, it's almost parenthetical, uh, for 0:33:53.460 --> 0:33:57.060 the forgiveness and then forgiveness of all your sins. It 0:33:57.060 --> 0:34:00.150 goes back to the plural, uh, that relates to the repentance. 0:34:00.150 --> 0:34:04.110 So it's almost like the be baptized is a parenthetical 0:34:04.110 --> 0:34:07.890 statement to those who have believed. But here's my, uh, 0:34:07.920 --> 0:34:11.820 since we're on the baptism thing. Yeah. I want to 0:34:11.850 --> 0:34:16.750 ask pastor Mike to explain, uh, where in first Peter 0:34:16.750 --> 0:34:21.100 it says that baptism now saves you. 0:34:21.130 --> 0:34:22.180 Yes, please. 0:34:22.690 --> 0:34:27.820 Uh, I, I like his explanation. I've heard him answer that. 0:34:27.820 --> 0:34:33.910 It's in first Peter three. Uh, it says this. Uh, 0:34:33.910 --> 0:34:36.580 God patiently waited in the days of Noah while an 0:34:36.580 --> 0:34:39.250 ark was being prepared in it. A few, that is, 0:34:39.250 --> 0:34:43.660 eight people were saved through water baptism, which corresponds to 0:34:43.690 --> 0:34:48.130 this now saves you. Okay, you're on the hot seat. 0:34:48.130 --> 0:34:50.680 All right, comma, let's read the rest of it. Not 0:34:50.680 --> 0:34:52.899 as a removal of dirt from the body, because that's 0:34:52.900 --> 0:34:56.649 what happens when your grimy body gets dunked in water. Right? 0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:58.509 Dirt comes off of your body. So we're not talking 0:34:58.510 --> 0:35:02.739 about being immersed in water, but the appeal. Right. As 0:35:02.739 --> 0:35:06.490 an appeal to God for a good conscience through the 0:35:06.489 --> 0:35:11.200 resurrection of Christ Jesus. So the idea of me calling out, 0:35:11.230 --> 0:35:13.930 making an appeal to God like that tax collector on 0:35:13.930 --> 0:35:16.930 the Temple Mount that Jesus talked about. Who's crying out 0:35:16.930 --> 0:35:20.350 to God, have mercy on me, a sinner. That appeal 0:35:20.350 --> 0:35:23.560 of repentant faith, right? That is what saves you. That 0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:26.020 being placed into Christ. That's what saves you. Not the 0:35:26.020 --> 0:35:29.920 baptism of being dunked into water that might remove a 0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:33.130 little dirt from your body. It's the appeal that God 0:35:33.130 --> 0:35:37.029 utilizes that you do in response to the gospel of 0:35:37.030 --> 0:35:41.469 Jesus Christ, which God graciously grants us. We respond, and 0:35:41.469 --> 0:35:44.290 that is the appeal of a penitent heart sees his 0:35:44.290 --> 0:35:47.710 sin or her sin, and cries out to God for forgiveness. 0:35:47.710 --> 0:35:49.600 And we know now the object of our faith has 0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:53.530 to clearly be in the arrival and work of Jesus Christ. 0:35:53.530 --> 0:35:56.770 So we are not talking about water baptism here, even 0:35:56.800 --> 0:35:59.980 though the correspondence is just like you got in the 0:35:59.980 --> 0:36:02.410 ark to make it through the waters. So we get 0:36:02.410 --> 0:36:05.200 into Christ and we make it through the coming judgment 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:06.130 of God one day. 0:36:06.130 --> 0:36:08.920 And that is reflected by what you're saying. Is spirit 0:36:08.920 --> 0:36:10.860 baptism correct? Okay. 0:36:11.100 --> 0:36:15.390 Yes. Right. We're placed into Christ by the Holy Spirit. Right. 0:36:15.390 --> 0:36:20.010 That little preposition epsilon nu. We're placed into, by, by, with, 0:36:20.010 --> 0:36:22.560 or in the idea of the Spirit of God. I'm 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:25.680 saying is putting us into relationship with Christ. Galatians says 0:36:25.680 --> 0:36:28.410 we're clothed in Christ, and so we have to be 0:36:28.410 --> 0:36:31.260 put into Christ. How does that happen? God's spirit does that. 0:36:31.260 --> 0:36:34.379 He changes our our status before a holy God. 0:36:34.410 --> 0:36:37.890 Yeah. That's it. Well, that was very helpful. We've been 0:36:37.890 --> 0:36:41.070 talking a lot more about baptism today than we usually do, 0:36:41.100 --> 0:36:43.290 but we're going to take a break now. So Tricia, 0:36:43.320 --> 0:36:46.950 thank you so much for bringing those questions in. And 0:36:46.950 --> 0:36:49.260 you can always send your question in to all you 0:36:49.260 --> 0:36:52.620 have to do is go to Openline radio.org. Click on 0:36:52.620 --> 0:36:55.500 the link that says Ask Michael a question and then 0:36:55.500 --> 0:36:58.230 you can post your question. Trish is really faithful. She 0:36:58.230 --> 0:37:00.419 not only puts them in the mailbag, but then she 0:37:00.420 --> 0:37:03.450 puts them on, uh, on the radio show for us 0:37:03.450 --> 0:37:05.400 to answer them. We're going to be right back with 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:07.950 more of your calls in just a moment. So don't 0:37:07.950 --> 0:37:10.650 go away. This is open line with Michael Radonich and 0:37:10.650 --> 0:37:16.110 Mike Fabares. Some claim Paul is the key person who 0:37:16.110 --> 0:37:19.500 took the message of the Jewish Messiah. Jesus made it 0:37:19.500 --> 0:37:24.569 into something Gentile. But Paul is also the one who wrote, brethren, 0:37:24.570 --> 0:37:28.980 my heart's desire for Israel is for their salvation. Romans 0:37:28.980 --> 0:37:33.540 ten one. Chosen people ministries. One of our underwriters wants 0:37:33.540 --> 0:37:36.930 us all to learn what drove Paul's passion for his 0:37:36.930 --> 0:37:39.810 own people. They're offering the book The Heart of the 0:37:39.810 --> 0:37:43.500 Apostle by Rich Freeman, free to all open line listeners. 0:37:43.500 --> 0:37:46.469 To get this exposition of Romans nine through 11, just 0:37:46.469 --> 0:37:50.190 go to our website, openline. radio.org. Scroll down to the 0:37:50.190 --> 0:37:53.220 link that says A free gift from Chosen People Ministries. 0:37:53.219 --> 0:37:55.530 Click on that and you'll be taken to a page 0:37:55.530 --> 0:37:57.600 where you can sign up for your very own free 0:37:57.600 --> 0:38:08.820 copy of The Heart of the Apostle. Paul. Welcome back 0:38:08.820 --> 0:38:12.540 to Open Line. So glad that you are listening in today. 0:38:12.540 --> 0:38:16.440 I'm so grateful that pastor Mike Fabros has joined us. Uh, hey, 0:38:16.469 --> 0:38:20.009 before we go on, tell people about, uh, Focal Point 0:38:20.010 --> 0:38:24.029 and what that's about. You know, you mentioned it when 0:38:24.030 --> 0:38:28.020 you substitute when you guest host, uh, I mentioned it. 0:38:28.260 --> 0:38:30.299 I could talk about it, but I think you should. 0:38:30.330 --> 0:38:33.270 Yeah. Focal point started many years ago on one radio 0:38:33.270 --> 0:38:36.750 station here in Southern California because one man said, hey, 0:38:36.750 --> 0:38:38.580 what if we could put you on the radio? Would 0:38:38.580 --> 0:38:40.080 you be okay with that? I said, as long as 0:38:40.080 --> 0:38:43.200 it doesn't negatively affect the church, I'm happy to to 0:38:43.230 --> 0:38:45.390 give my permission for that. So it started on one station. 0:38:45.390 --> 0:38:48.839 We're now on almost a thousand stations, uh, years later. 0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:51.870 And of course, we are very proud and happy to 0:38:51.870 --> 0:38:55.110 be a part of partnering with Moody Network. We're on 0:38:55.140 --> 0:38:57.450 Moody Network. We've just changed our times, by the way. 0:38:57.450 --> 0:38:59.130 So if you did hear us and it seems like 0:38:59.130 --> 0:39:02.219 we went away, just check the directory there on Moody 0:39:02.219 --> 0:39:04.710 Radio on their website and you can find when we're 0:39:04.710 --> 0:39:07.720 broadcasting on whatever station you might be listening on today. 0:39:07.719 --> 0:39:10.660 But yes, we love Expositing the word to 30 minute 0:39:10.660 --> 0:39:13.480 show where we work verse by verse through the Bible, 0:39:13.480 --> 0:39:15.850 and it's all of the work that we do here 0:39:15.850 --> 0:39:18.460 in Southern California. We're happy to to shove it there 0:39:18.700 --> 0:39:21.850 over the wall into the pipes and have it go 0:39:21.850 --> 0:39:25.090 all across the nation. We're in Sirius XM radio and 0:39:25.150 --> 0:39:28.240 everywhere else. We love hearing from our listeners. So if 0:39:28.270 --> 0:39:31.450 you are a listener to Focal Point, please just go 0:39:31.450 --> 0:39:34.600 to pastor Mike comm, which is just a quick URL 0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:38.380 that takes you over to Focal Point website, Focal Point Ministries. 0:39:38.410 --> 0:39:40.930 That is the place where you can just click on it. 0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:42.970 Let us know you're listening, tell us what station you're 0:39:42.969 --> 0:39:46.330 listening on. And it's such an encouragement. I only have two. 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:49.900 Believe it or not, two employees. The rest are all volunteers. 0:39:49.900 --> 0:39:51.700 We have an army of volunteers. I don't get paid 0:39:51.700 --> 0:39:53.650 a cent for doing it. We put all of our 0:39:53.650 --> 0:39:56.410 money right back into the expenses that go into the 0:39:56.410 --> 0:39:59.290 towers and broadcasting. So pastor Mike comm is where you 0:39:59.290 --> 0:40:01.840 go to learn about Focal Point. And if you're listening, 0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:03.969 please let us know. We'd love to hear that you're 0:40:03.969 --> 0:40:05.950 out there and it's a help to you if it is. 0:40:05.950 --> 0:40:10.660 So here's the thing that I did. I was in California, 0:40:10.690 --> 0:40:12.640 had a rental car, and I was just I didn't 0:40:12.640 --> 0:40:13.989 know where I was. So I was just going through 0:40:13.989 --> 0:40:16.960 the stations. And I heard this guy preaching and I thought, oh, 0:40:16.989 --> 0:40:20.830 that's pretty good. And I said, Eva, listen to this guy. 0:40:20.830 --> 0:40:24.610 He's really good. And so then I but I didn't 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:26.290 know who it was. And I waited to the end 0:40:26.290 --> 0:40:28.480 of the program and of course heard that it was 0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:31.330 focal point. Yes. Pastor Mike and I started listening. 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:32.620 Had to be a moody grad, you said. 0:40:32.650 --> 0:40:35.080 Yeah, had to be. It was so good. And then 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:38.680 I was coming to California and I used my moody 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.649 connection to call your assistant. Said, I'd like to meet 0:40:41.650 --> 0:40:43.719 this guy. Yeah. And that's how how it is that 0:40:43.719 --> 0:40:46.420 we first met. Right. And but I just so enjoyed 0:40:46.420 --> 0:40:49.450 listening to the program. That's how it was that that 0:40:49.450 --> 0:40:51.969 I had the nerve to finally, after a few years, 0:40:52.000 --> 0:40:54.549 to call you up and say, hey, I called your assistant, 0:40:54.550 --> 0:40:57.250 can I get an appointment with pastor Mike? And she's like, why? 0:40:57.280 --> 0:40:59.020 I said, well, I'm a moody professor and I sure 0:40:59.020 --> 0:41:00.700 would like to talk with him. I think that was 0:41:00.700 --> 0:41:02.440 the only reason I got got in. You know, I 0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:03.410 was a moody professor. 0:41:03.530 --> 0:41:04.790 You dropped your credentials? 0:41:04.820 --> 0:41:05.540 Yes. There we go. 0:41:05.570 --> 0:41:08.120 No. Anyone can get in. Yeah. They're not wanting to 0:41:08.120 --> 0:41:09.380 do me harm. I'll meet. 0:41:09.380 --> 0:41:12.770 With anybody. Anyway, I was really grateful. Okay, let's let's 0:41:12.770 --> 0:41:17.270 talk to Angela in Cleveland, Ohio. Uh, listening. I'm guessing 0:41:17.270 --> 0:41:20.000 on wtxf. Welcome to open Line, Angela. How can we 0:41:20.030 --> 0:41:20.750 help you? 0:41:22.340 --> 0:41:25.250 Hi, doctor Golnik and pastor Mike, thank you for taking 0:41:25.250 --> 0:41:29.390 my call. Um, with all of this going on in 0:41:29.390 --> 0:41:34.850 Israel lately, um, I've been taught since I've been a Christian, 0:41:34.880 --> 0:41:38.569 became a Christian that, you know, we we have to 0:41:38.870 --> 0:41:43.520 pray for Israel. It is God's chosen land and chosen people. 0:41:43.550 --> 0:41:49.220 And my question is, I've spoken with some people that 0:41:49.219 --> 0:41:54.440 think that this is just completely wrong, that the church 0:41:54.469 --> 0:42:03.839 is actually Israel. And where I mean, 144,000. In revelation, 0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:06.960 that is Jews in Israel, correct? 0:42:06.989 --> 0:42:10.080 It's Jewish people around the world, I think, who are 0:42:10.080 --> 0:42:13.890 going to preach the gospel. 144,000. I'm not sure they're 0:42:13.890 --> 0:42:16.259 going to be gospel preachers, but when you see the 0:42:16.260 --> 0:42:18.990 impact of people from every tribe and tongue and nation 0:42:18.989 --> 0:42:21.480 knowing the Lord in the next paragraph, I think they 0:42:21.510 --> 0:42:27.660 are servants who preach the gospel, that 144,000. But so 0:42:27.690 --> 0:42:32.040 it's like 144,000 Jewish Billy Graham's in the tribulation. But 0:42:32.190 --> 0:42:37.080 here's the verse that people use now 73 times. The 0:42:37.080 --> 0:42:41.160 word Israel is used in the New Testament. And most 0:42:41.160 --> 0:42:47.010 people are agreed that 72 it refers to literal Jewish people, 0:42:47.610 --> 0:42:51.630 even people who believe in replacement theology. Take Romans nine 0:42:51.630 --> 0:42:54.509 and say, yeah, that's talking about Jewish believers. The one 0:42:54.510 --> 0:42:58.800 place where they think it isn't is Galatians 616, and 0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:06.090 this is what Galatians 616 says, uh, for, uh, both circumcision. 0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:12.030 I'm sorry. Uh, I'm looking for my verse. Uh, Galatians 0:43:12.030 --> 0:43:16.380 six and it says, uh, I'm looking for the verse now. 0:43:16.410 --> 0:43:20.100 It's not 616. He talks about that even though there's 0:43:20.100 --> 0:43:22.980 a blessing at the end of verse 16. I'm reading 0:43:22.980 --> 0:43:24.960 the wrong verse. May peace come to all those who 0:43:24.989 --> 0:43:29.400 follow the standard and mercy to the Israel of God. 0:43:29.400 --> 0:43:34.530 Galatians 616. So, okay, what is he talking about? Who 0:43:34.530 --> 0:43:36.600 is the Israel of God? I think at the end, 0:43:36.690 --> 0:43:40.440 and I'd love to hear Pastor Mike's explanation too, but 0:43:40.440 --> 0:43:45.719 I understand that to be referring to Jewish believers, that 0:43:45.719 --> 0:43:48.030 there are so many Jewish believers that were falling prey 0:43:48.030 --> 0:43:50.549 to the Galatians ism of saying that Gentiles needed to 0:43:50.580 --> 0:43:53.460 be circumcised. Paul is saying, listen, anyone that agrees with 0:43:53.460 --> 0:43:56.670 me that it's just justification by faith, special blessing to 0:43:56.700 --> 0:44:01.540 you all, and especially additionally a blessing on the Israel 0:44:01.540 --> 0:44:04.000 of God. Jewish believers who have not fallen prey to 0:44:04.030 --> 0:44:07.480 that Galatians stick teaching that legalistic teaching of needing to 0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:11.380 be circumcised before believing in Jesus, and he gives them 0:44:11.380 --> 0:44:13.960 a special blessing. So he's actually talking. The Israel of 0:44:13.960 --> 0:44:16.480 God refers there to Jewish believers. I was wondering what 0:44:16.480 --> 0:44:17.050 you think. Yeah. 0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:19.600 No, I'm I'm inclined to think the same. It's such 0:44:19.630 --> 0:44:23.200 an important thing to remember the Jew first and also 0:44:23.230 --> 0:44:26.650 the Greek. The gospel had its first application to the 0:44:26.650 --> 0:44:30.730 descendants of Abraham, and through Jesus, of course, to be 0:44:30.730 --> 0:44:32.739 a blessing to all the nations. So I do think 0:44:32.739 --> 0:44:36.189 that there was always a special place for Paul, you know, 0:44:36.219 --> 0:44:39.190 Jewish seminary grad, right? He was he was a Jew 0:44:39.219 --> 0:44:43.420 of Jews. And I do believe that the importance of 0:44:43.420 --> 0:44:48.130 the nation, and especially those that were messianically believing in Christ, 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:51.009 were a very special importance to the Apostle Paul. But 0:44:51.010 --> 0:44:54.490 the nation itself, and maybe I didn't understand the question 0:44:54.700 --> 0:44:57.820 quite right. And you can clarify me if you clarify 0:44:57.860 --> 0:45:00.230 I'm wrong, but the Israel that we do have the 0:45:00.230 --> 0:45:03.860 lineage of Abraham, I think there's no doubt that we 0:45:03.860 --> 0:45:07.880 have descendants of Abraham that do now, after this movement 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:11.600 back to Israel, are descendants of Abraham. And as God 0:45:11.600 --> 0:45:14.509 promised in Jeremiah 31, it would take the moon and 0:45:14.510 --> 0:45:16.879 the fixed order and the sun to go away before 0:45:16.910 --> 0:45:20.180 Israel ceased to be a nation before him. So I 0:45:20.180 --> 0:45:23.089 do think what we have in Israel today, sometimes they 0:45:23.090 --> 0:45:25.190 do right, sometimes they do wrong. But I'm saying they 0:45:25.190 --> 0:45:29.930 are descendant from Abraham, just like Doctor Redlich is descended 0:45:29.930 --> 0:45:30.890 from Abraham. 0:45:30.920 --> 0:45:35.150 Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Right? That's it. The descendants of 0:45:35.180 --> 0:45:38.210 the of the patriarchs. That's it. And there's a special blessing, 0:45:38.210 --> 0:45:42.530 even for unbelieving Israel in Romans 1128 and 29, because 0:45:42.530 --> 0:45:44.690 of God's love for the patriarchs and the covenants that 0:45:44.690 --> 0:45:47.810 he made with them, they remain chosen and beloved, because 0:45:47.810 --> 0:45:51.140 the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable. Even those 0:45:51.140 --> 0:45:53.480 who don't believe. One day the Lord will bring them 0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:57.110 to faith. The nation will believe. And that's something that 0:45:57.110 --> 0:45:59.870 we look forward to when the Lord Jesus returns. Thanks 0:45:59.870 --> 0:46:02.780 for your calls, all of you. Thanks for listening, everyone. 0:46:02.780 --> 0:46:05.750 Thanks for all of you who called or wrote in 0:46:05.780 --> 0:46:08.569 you make this program possible. Thank you, pastor Mike, for 0:46:08.570 --> 0:46:10.580 letting me use your studio for joining me today. 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:12.050 Pleasure to be here. 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:13.790 It was great to be here and also our great 0:46:13.790 --> 0:46:17.299 Open Line team. Tricia McMillan. Omar Mendoza, thank you so 0:46:17.300 --> 0:46:19.460 much for what you do. Keep in touch with us 0:46:19.460 --> 0:46:23.150 by visiting our web page Open Line radio.org. That page 0:46:23.150 --> 0:46:26.390 has everything you need, even how to get our current 0:46:26.390 --> 0:46:30.140 resource and how to become a kitchen table partner. Keep 0:46:30.140 --> 0:46:33.830 reading the Bible. We'll talk about it next week. Open 0:46:33.830 --> 0:46:36.650 line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick is a production of 0:46:36.650 --> 0:46:41.390 Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. See you 0:46:41.390 --> 0:46:42.379 next week.