S1: From the National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Dallas, Texas. Welcome
S1: to Open Line. Hello, friends. It's time for the second
S1: hour of Open Line with Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible
S1: Study Across America. We're talking about your questions about the Bible,
S1: God and the spiritual life. My name is Michael Ray.
S1: I'm the academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and
S1: Bible at Moody Bible Institute. And we are not live
S1: today as we usually are. We're not taking your calls
S1: as this is a special pre-recorded edition of Open Line.
S1: We are live at the National Religious Broadcasters. We're recording
S1: it for you to hear there's an audience here. They
S1: are the ones that are going to be asking the
S1: questions today. If you'd like to ask a question, normally
S1: I'd say call, but not today. Just go to our
S1: website openline. radio.org. You'll see a link there that says
S1: Ask Michael a question. Click on that and you can
S1: post your question right there and we'll get to it
S1: in upcoming weeks. But don't call today. Just listen. And
S1: I'm sure that someone will ask the question that you
S1: were thinking about. Joining me for this special hour is
S1: my friend and I would say regular co-host or regular
S1: substitution host on Open Line doctor Mike Fabares of Compass
S1: Bible Church in Aliso Viejo. I hope I'm saying that right.
S1: It's good. Uh, California.
S2: Your English and Spanish are as good as your Hebrew.
S1: Yeah, I wish I could pronounce it better if it
S1: was in Hebrew. I'll tell you that. Anyway, I'm glad
S1: you're here with me.
S2: Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for asking me
S2: to to come on the program.
S1: Yeah. You know, I really want people to know, uh,
S1: that there are there are some people this is, I think,
S1: really crucial. There are some people that love to study
S1: the Bible and answer questions about it. That's how I
S1: actually found you online. The very first time I was
S1: listening to your, uh, the podcast of your worship services.
S2: Oh, yeah.
S1: Right. At at Compass Bible. And once a year, I
S1: guess you do it. Is that what you do?
S2: Once a year and three services? That's right.
S1: And you take Bible questions. I said this guy's not
S1: afraid of anything. He'll take them cold I love this,
S1: this is great. So anyway. And I'm so grateful that we've.
S2: Well, you should tell the whole story because I've heard
S2: it before. It's because I answered something.
S1: Yeah.
S2: Appropriately about Israel, I think.
S1: Not only did I.
S2: Listen to what hooked you, that's what made you stand
S2: up and cheer at that point.
S1: Yeah, it was the very first question that you answered was,
S1: how should a Christian think about Israel and the Jewish
S1: people today? And I thought, oh, okay, now this is
S1: the test.
S2: Yeah.
S1: Here we go. And you answered it exactly as I would.
S2: There you go. Well, then I had to be right.
S1: And I thought, okay, whether I'm right or wrong.
S2: That's right.
S1: I like.
S2: Him. That's right. That was good.
S1: So I'm so glad about that. Well, we're going to
S1: start taking some questions right now. Let's do it.
S3: Hi, Michael. Hi. This is Heather.
S1: Hi, Heather.
S3: Okay, so my question has to do with the animal
S3: sacrifices in the Old Testament. I just recently heard someone
S3: make a comment kind of like, well, they weren't good enough,
S3: so Jesus came. But my question is, really, what was
S3: the purpose of those? We know in Hebrews it says
S3: the blood of bulls and goats could never wash away sin.
S3: We understand Jesus death was the payment for sin. But
S3: then in Ezekiel it talks about a new temple and
S3: sacrifices again, which is like, wait a minute, I thought
S3: that was over. So then it makes you begin to go,
S3: what was the whole point of the sacrifices?
S1: Well, let's start with the purpose of Levitical sacrifices. You
S1: want to go with that?
S2: Sure. Yeah. If you look at Leviticus chapter one, verse four,
S2: this was a great image of substitution. That's the idea, right?
S2: Bring the best animal you have. You lay your hand
S2: on the head of the animal, and then that blood
S2: is spilt and splattering on your sandals and your toes.
S2: And here was this picture of you going home saying, okay,
S2: God forgives me. And yet my animal did nothing wrong.
S2: It it it stays there. It becomes food for the
S2: Levitical priests and their kids. Or it's a burnt offering.
S2: It's burnt up. So the picture was simply that the
S2: shedding of this blood reminds us that we deserve death.
S2: Wages of sin is death, and here is death that
S2: symbolically represents what we need, and that is we need.
S2: If we're ever going to survive in the presence of God,
S2: we need somebody to take our place. And of course,
S2: we can't have an animal take the place of a
S2: human being, right? We need the perfect human being to
S2: take the place of sinful human beings. And so that
S2: was the image of it. It all looked forward. Hebrews
S2: ten verse one. It was the shadow of the things
S2: that were to come. The substance is in Christ. So
S2: we know it was all a picture of what was
S2: to come.
S1: Yeah. So they, they're pointing forward but they really although
S1: I do believe there was a genuine sense of forgiveness. Uh,
S1: those sins were covered the way I kind of look
S1: at those Levitical sacrifices. It's sort of like when you
S1: run up your, your credit card, spend too much money,
S1: and the bill comes and you can't possibly pay it.
S1: So what you do is you pay the minimum, which
S1: doesn't even cover anything, really. And then you keep running
S1: up your credit card and next month you pay the minimum. Well,
S1: that's how the Yom Kippur sacrifice worked. It never took
S1: away the guilt, but it covered it until until it
S1: came due again next year. So that's what. And but
S1: it was pointing forward to the sacrifice that would pay
S1: the principal and the interest on on that sin. And
S1: that was the death of the Messiah. And then he
S1: was resurrected. And he can give us life. But the
S1: question then is, why are there sacrifices in Ezekiel 40
S1: through 48 and this? And so some people want to
S1: say it's symbolic, not real. But I think there's really
S1: going to be a temple. There will really be sacrifices.
S1: And people say, well, how can that be now that
S1: the sacrifice has been paid? The answer is the Old
S1: Testament sacrifices didn't take away sin either. The the Ezekiel
S1: temple sacrifices won't take away sin. But there will be
S1: people born in the messianic kingdom in the millennium, the
S1: thousand year reign of Jesus on earth. And there will
S1: be people who will not have glorified bodies. They will
S1: go into the kingdom. They will marry. They will have kids.
S1: Their kids will have to come to know the Lord.
S1: It says in Isaiah 65 that if someone dies at 100,
S1: they will be young. And so as a result of that,
S1: death won't be as prevalent. And so people, when they
S1: when they are born in the millennium, they will have
S1: to trust that Jesus died for them and rose again.
S1: And they won't be as, uh, how should I put it?
S1: Aware of the significance of that statement because people won't
S1: be dying as much, and as a result, there's going
S1: to be actual sacrifices. Like we have the Lord's Supper
S1: today to remember what the Lord Jesus did. They will
S1: point back. They will be. They won't take away sin,
S1: but they will remind us of what the Lord Jesus
S1: did for us in taking our our sin in his
S1: sacrificial death.
S2: Yeah. I just think there's two ways for us to
S2: look at this. You got to look at the big picture, right?
S2: Israel did not do what they were supposed to do correctly.
S2: And with the Messiah on on the throne, this is
S2: all going to be done, right? Yeah. Right. And everything
S2: about the Levitical system will be done right. And so
S2: that's part of why it's there. And of course, a
S2: lot of people will say, hey, this is looking back.
S2: It's symbolic. And that's true. Just like the the sacrifices
S2: before Christ look forward. But if you read that section carefully,
S2: there is a sense of clean and unclean that is effectuated.
S1: A ceremonial and clean. Unclean.
S2: Correct and clean. Unclean. Just those buzzwords are about ceremonial acceptance.
S2: And that is is really the way that that section
S2: of Scripture reads. So in the Jewish system, there will
S2: be something to those sacrifices, just like you had Jesus
S2: in his earthly ministry. Of course, this is prior to
S2: the veil ripping. Uh, you had the leper that was
S2: cleansed and he said, go to the priest, show yourself
S2: to the priest, bring the appropriate sacrifices. There was a
S2: way to do Israel right, and it's going to be
S2: done right in the Millennial Kingdom, which will include those
S2: sacrifices that do not take away sin. But they do.
S2: They are the gate for clean and unclean, and that's ceremonial.
S2: And that's important.
S3: Isn't it? Isn't it also true that it's all along?
S3: It was faith.
S1: Always.
S3: It's faith in. Well, God told us to do this,
S3: to offer these sacrifices. We do it even if we
S3: don't understand it as an act of faith and obedience.
S1: I do think they understood that they were because they
S1: had to lay their hand on the sacrifice, the animal
S1: and then identify. You know, they take this, this animal,
S1: identify with it by putting their sin symbolically on the animal.
S1: Then the death of the animal, there's an exchange of life.
S1: So so the animal dies and I live. So they
S1: understood it, but they what they had to do was
S1: they had to exercise faith in that process, and then
S1: their sins would be forgiven. The the same way that
S1: the death of Jesus as our substitute, it's not enough
S1: to say, well, he died. And whether I believe in
S1: him or not, God's going to apply his atonement to me. No,
S1: there must be faith in his death and his resurrection
S1: in order for that benefit to accrue to us.
S3: Thank you. I just think for many of us, there's
S3: a we don't quite understand all that. So thank you.
S1: Yep. Okay. Uh. We're going to we're going to take. Oh,
S1: we're going to take another question. Okay.
S4: Hi, Michael. Jonathan here with a question. I was reading
S4: Micah six earlier today. And you know, Micah six eight
S4: has the the classic passage. And what does the Lord
S4: require of you but to do justice and to love
S4: kindness and to walk humbly with your God? But continuing
S4: on the conversation about sacrifices before that, in the first, uh,
S4: the first two verses preceding in six and seven, it says,
S4: with what shall I come before the Lord and bow
S4: myself before God on high? And it talks about, shall
S4: I come before him with burnt offerings? Uh, a thousand
S4: a thousand goats and or rams, and then, uh, ten
S4: thousands of rivers of oil and and so talking about that,
S4: it says, well, should I give these sacrifices to, to him?
S4: Will this be pleasing to him? And then he says,
S4: but this is what I require of you. Uh, when
S4: I read that, it kind of struck me and made
S4: me think, well, he he did require sacrifices, as you
S4: have mentioned. How do I take what he's saying? This
S4: is all that I require of you. But them taking
S4: the requirements of of books in the past.
S1: You want to go first?
S2: Yeah. Jonathan. I mean, here's exactly what we just had
S2: from our last question, in essence, is that it doesn't matter.
S2: This is like Psalm 50. It doesn't matter if you
S2: bring all these animals, right? God's like, oh, great, I'm hungry.
S2: I need these animals. I've got to have this. God
S2: is not in need of anything, right? All of this
S2: was to be the icing on top of the cake
S2: of a heart that understands. It falls short of the
S2: glory of God. And we need God's mercy and his forgiveness.
S2: And I think that's where we're looking at verse eight,
S2: the rectification, the repentance, the fruit of repentance that starts
S2: in our heart. And of course, it's not the icing
S2: that makes the cake, right. This is just what we
S2: do as an expression of our heart that is made
S2: right with the King. And this is why in Matthew 23,
S2: when the Pharisees are castigated for just going through the
S2: motions of everything and tithing out their spices, but they're
S2: not interested in justice and doing what's right. This is
S2: a great text that really embodies that truth. And the
S2: truth is, you better have your heart right. And all
S2: of your extension of of worship in the Old Testament
S2: systems got to it's got to come from that. It's
S2: like if you go Jonathan to church and you're singing
S2: the songs of wonderfully theologically sound words, it means nothing, right?
S2: Micah one take away the noise of your songs. It
S2: doesn't matter. Unless, of course, your heart is right, then
S2: it matters a great deal. And this is very pleasing
S2: to the Lord. Of course, the Lord is pleased if
S2: if Israelites of the Old Testament do what is right.
S2: But it starts with where you are as a human being,
S2: and that it presupposes the predicate of it is a
S2: repentant heart. And I think that's throughout the Old Testament.
S1: Yeah. When you look at Isaiah one, it says, what
S1: are your sacrifices to me? I've had enough of burnt
S1: offerings and rams and the fat of well-fed cattle. I
S1: have no desire for the blood of bulls, lambs or
S1: male goats. When you come to appear before me, who
S1: requires this from you? Why, God requires it. But they
S1: were coming without faith, without a desire. They were ritualistic.
S1: It was mere ceremony. And they thought as long as
S1: I got the sacrifice, I'm covered. And God was saying, no,
S1: I need your heart and your sacrifice. He goes on
S1: to say that he hates their new moons. He hates
S1: their solemn assemblies. Why do you even lift up your
S1: hands in prayer? The point is prayer. Obviously, God wants
S1: us to pray, but not if our hearts aren't right
S1: with him. And so it's not, uh, it's both and
S1: not either or. So that's that's what I'm saying. We're
S1: going to take a break here. And when we come back,
S1: we are going to take more of your questions right
S1: here at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. Joining me today
S1: is doctor Mike Fabares, and I'm Michael Melnick, and you're
S1: listening to Moody Radio's Open Line. We'll be right back
S1: with more questions straight ahead. Jewish people completed our annual
S1: Passover observance last weekend. This festival was such a meaningful
S1: celebration of redemption to learn the rich teaching of this holiday.
S1: Chosen People Ministries, one of our partners, is offering a
S1: free booklet, Passover A time for redemption. Besides explaining the
S1: significance of the Exodus from Egypt, this booklet will open
S1: our eyes to the way the Passover foreshadows the death
S1: and resurrection of Yeshua, Jesus our Passover Lamb. Additionally, comprehending
S1: Passover will deepen our understanding of the Messiah Yeshua, the
S1: Bread of Life. Celebrating the Lord's Supper will never be
S1: the same after grasping the significance of this festival. For
S1: a free copy of Passover A time for redemption, just
S1: go to the Open Line website that's online radio.org. Scroll
S1: down and you'll see the link that says a free
S1: gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll
S1: be taken to a page where you can sign up
S1: for your very own copy of Passover A time for redemption.
S1: And we're back at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and
S1: we're so glad to be here. I'm so glad to
S1: be here because I ran into my friend Mike Fabares,
S1: pastor of Compass Bible Church, where answering people's Bible questions
S1: right here at the conference, we're grateful to be here
S1: at the conference and see all these folks. And we're
S1: going to go right back to questions right now.
S5: Hi. My name is Shannon. And my question is, with
S5: heaven being a perfect place of peace and communion with God,
S5: what does free will look like?
S1: First of all, I just want to say that, uh,
S1: free will is something there's a moral responsibility that we
S1: all have. And Adam and Eve had sort of an
S1: untested freedom, I guess you could say. And then they failed.
S1: And it affected all of us. And then God redeemed us.
S1: And when we're in his presence, the Bible says, when
S1: we see him, we shall be like him. Uh, those
S1: of us who know him. And so I would say,
S1: what happens is we are confirmed in his likeness. We
S1: are now free to do the right thing and not
S1: the wrong. And so I think that's the simplest answer,
S1: is that we are we're free. Uh, do you want
S1: to add anything to that?
S2: Yeah, I wrote a chapter on this because it is
S2: it's an eventual question you're going to have. Right? Most
S2: people think, well, I'm going to be like Adam and Eve, right?
S2: I'm going to be I'm going to be holy. And
S2: why can't I do what Adam and Eve did? But
S2: that's not what theologians have rightly understood. And you use
S2: the word and they use it a lot. We're confirmed
S2: in our righteousness. It was a hard chapter to write.
S2: Probably the hardest in this book called Ten Mistakes People
S2: Make About Heaven hell in the afterlife, not a moody publication.
S2: So it's not great.
S1: No, it's a.
S2: Good book, but it's not a great.
S1: Book. I mentioned it all the time anyway.
S2: That book I worked to find everything I could, knowing
S2: the basic concept. Here's where the easy, the simple person
S2: can go. Jesus says forever and ever, right? He makes
S2: it clear. So if you don't care about what happens
S2: when you flip the switch and how the electricity gets
S2: to the bulb and how it lights up, that's all
S2: you need to know, Jesus said, forever and ever. Right?
S2: We're going to be there, perfected in a perfect place,
S2: making perfect good decisions forever and ever. But if you
S2: want to understand it, that's where I think Jonathan Edwards
S2: and others have rightly dug into this to try and
S2: come to a conclusion that there's something about that post
S2: tested experience. Even in the millennial Kingdom, I would assume
S2: you have this view. Uh, the reason Satan is let
S2: out at the end of this, right? You need that
S2: time of post testing confirmation. Everyone in the kingdom, including
S2: the angels, are post tested. And I think there's something
S2: about that. Testing and redemption and all that. We see
S2: that we're going to glorify God, not because we're going
S2: to say, look, I made good decisions, but because Christ
S2: has has redeemed me. And now we're going to be perfected.
S2: And there'll be nothing against that perfection. Our flesh totally
S2: in sync with, with God, our minds, our hearts, our spirit. No, tempter.
S2: All of that I think is key to this. Or
S2: we go back to what Jesus said forever and ever.
S2: We're going to be in this place forever and ever.
S1: Also, will those of us who have glorified bodies in
S1: the Millennial Kingdom. That won't be a test for us.
S1: That's true, that's true. But the people who are born
S1: in or enter the millennial Kingdom without glorified bodies, they're believers,
S1: but they enter the kingdom. That's what that test is
S1: at the end of the thousand years. That's right, that's right. So, okay.
S6: Hi, this is Brenda from Tupelo, and I was reading
S6: the Bible but was confused and maybe you could help me.
S6: I don't know, understand what's the difference between the tabernacle
S6: and the temple? The same thing seemed to be happening,
S6: and I don't. I don't know the difference. Could you
S6: help me understand that? Thank you.
S1: Sure.
S2: The Prentiss sounds sweet.
S1: Yeah, yeah. Southern. Uh, there we go. Uh, well, Brenda,
S1: here's the thing. It's the Leviticus, uh, or Exodus lays
S1: out the tabernacle, and it was temporary. But in the
S1: the Torah, it says over and over that God's going
S1: to choose a place where he will make his name dwell.
S1: And that was always an anticipation that there would be
S1: a permanent structure where God would commune with people, where
S1: there would be fellowship restored, and that would be the temple.
S1: And of course, that's what Solomon.
S2: Yeah, the simple answer, Brenda, is one's a tent and
S2: one's a building. Yeah. And yeah, even the Feast of Tabernacles,
S2: if you depending on the translation you're reading, right? They were.
S2: They were tenting. They were intense. The feast of Booths. Right.
S2: Picture it that way. The idea of them going through
S2: the wilderness, they were all intense. And of course, the
S2: worship center was going to be in a tent. That's
S2: the tabernacle. Yeah. One day it'll be a temple. Temple?
S2: That's a building.
S1: Yeah. And so there was first, it's so interesting. There
S1: was a tabernacle, then there was the first temple, then
S1: there was the second temple. Then the second temple was
S1: rebuilt and became Herod's Temple. Because it was so fancy
S1: that was destroyed. There's going to be a Ezekiel temple.
S1: There's going to be a temple before that. The false
S1: messiahs temple in the in the tribulation period. Uh, but
S1: there's all just this is going to sound funny, but
S1: it's all just one temple. Uh, and I kind of
S1: think of Yankee Stadium. Uh, there was a Yankee Stadium,
S1: the house that Ruth built, and then, uh, it was
S1: taken down to the foundations and rebuilt about 1970. And
S1: then it was torn down and it was rebuilt across
S1: the street. It's still Yankee Stadium, And that's sort of
S1: how the temple is from generation to generation.
S2: Okay.
S7: So hi, I have a question. My name is Rob. Um,
S7: would you recommend reading the additional books that are in the, say,
S7: Orthodox or Catholic Bibles?
S1: Would I recommend reading them?
S7: There seems to be some. There's additional books that are
S7: not in a traditional Bible.
S1: Like the apocryphal books.
S7: Exactly. Is there value in that.
S1: Book of Tobit?
S7: Things like that. What's your thoughts on that?
S1: Well, first of all, the I would always just say,
S1: I don't believe that they have the mark of, of
S1: canon on it. They are not inspired. And, uh, the
S1: Bible uses the word inspired. All Scripture is inspired. God breathed.
S1: And so I would say, uh, they are not inspired,
S1: but that doesn't. There are a lot of books I
S1: read that aren't inspired. And I remember when I was
S1: a first year college student at Moody Bible Institute and
S1: I took New Testament survey. Uh. Did you you were
S1: a moody student.
S2: I was. And I took New Testament survey.
S1: And we had to read the Apocrypha before we read
S1: the New Testament. And the reason was to set the
S1: cultural religious milieu of where the New Testament was sitting.
S2: So, yeah, I think that, uh, I would say the
S2: practical question to answer your question directly, if you've read
S2: the Bible through from cover to cover ten times, then
S2: I don't mind someone reading through the Apocrypha.
S1: There we go.
S2: Because you really need to set the base. And if
S2: you do read the Apocrypha, after being well acquainted with
S2: the Bible, you'll find this. This is obvious why it's
S2: not canonical. It doesn't even, uh, in many places have
S2: a kind of integrity historically. And so there's nothing wrong
S2: with reading it. The problem today is especially with Roman Catholics,
S2: this is because the Council of Trent and after in
S2: the in the Counter-Reformation, they were looking for a few
S2: passages to pin some of their doctrines on. And so
S2: they said, well, we're going to make these the scripture. Well,
S2: everyone was into reading the Apocrypha before the Reformation and
S2: even after the Reformation. But then they said you are
S2: anathema if you don't see these on par with Scripture.
S2: And that's where there became a battle. But before that,
S2: everyone said, yeah, if you want to learn some of
S2: the things, particularly in First and second Maccabees, you need
S2: to read these books, because they give us the historical
S2: bridge between the two Testaments. But everyone knew there was
S2: a 400 year period of silence.
S1: Yeah. And as Lou Goldberg, my predecessor at Moody Bible Institute,
S1: used to say, it was dime store literature. I don't
S1: know if anyone knows what a dime store is anymore,
S1: but it's what that that common literature that people read
S1: all the time. And they were they found it kind
S1: of religious and interesting, but they didn't give it the
S1: authority of Scripture. What I fear today, like we read
S1: it as historical cultural background to the New Testament, as
S1: we said. But what I fear today is that when
S1: people read it, they're looking for something deeper than Scripture,
S1: more than Scripture. Uh, and, and so I would just
S1: be cautious about that, that they give us a cultural milieu,
S1: but that's it.
S2: But it sounds like scripture. And that's why sometimes if
S2: you read like Ben Sira and the, uh, proverbial books,
S2: they sound like you're reading the Book of Proverbs. They're
S2: just that ancient Jewish literature. Um, that basically can can
S2: lure you into thinking, well, I'm reading the Bible, but
S2: you've got to know that the church never accepted these
S2: as canonical, on par as God breathed until the Counter Reformation.
S1: You read wisdom books like that in the Apocrypha. It's
S1: sort of like reading the seven Habits of Highly Effective People.
S1: It might have some truth in there, but it's not Scripture. Correct.
S1: So good. Uh, well, uh, we're going to ask a
S1: question real quick. Let's let's see if we can get
S1: that last one in before the break.
S8: Hello. My name is George. And where was Noah's Ark
S8: AAC builds are.
S1: I'm just going to start by saying Mike Fabares has
S1: a big backyard. That's right. And that's that's where.
S2: All the big ships are built.
S1: Yeah. It's near the Pacific Ocean, that's why. So, uh, uh,
S1: where was it built? Uh, I'm not sure that that
S1: there's an answer to that.
S2: No, I mean, how could we know? We're not even.
S2: Here's what you need to remember about the flood. Everything
S2: from Genesis 6 to 9 that catastrophically changed the world.
S2: And so when people are asking questions about everything prior
S2: to Genesis six, I don't have any definitive answers. And
S2: I don't have my geography anywhere in my own mind,
S2: completely satisfied that even some of the rivers that are
S2: named the same prior are found in the same place.
S1: Everything was the foundations of the deep, uh, were were
S1: brought up. They were huge earthquakes that changed the topography
S1: of the Earth. It changed so much of of the area.
S1: How do you know? You can't possibly know. So, uh. Well, anyway, we're, uh,
S1: let me just say where we're at. We're at the
S1: National Religious broadcasters. People are here. We've got a live audience,
S1: but it's a pre-recorded program, so don't call today. Joining
S1: me today is Mike Fabares from Compass Bible Church. We're glad.
S1: I'm glad that he's here helping with the hard questions.
S1: And we're going to come right back with more. This
S1: is Michael Ray Dolnick, and you're listening to Open Line.
S1: We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
S1: Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick bringing the Febc mailbag every week.
S1: Learn how far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to
S1: the world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until
S1: all I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of
S1: lives changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again. You
S1: can hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org.
S1: Welcome back to this very special edition of Open Line. Uh,
S1: my name is Michael Ray Melnick, and we are at
S1: the National Religious Broadcasters Convention. And we have a live
S1: audience here, but we're still going to do the Febc mailbag.
S1: Joining me is doctor Mike Fabares. And now joining me is, uh,
S1: Tricia McMillan, producer of Open Line. And I do want
S1: to say that I appreciate Febc Far Eastern Broadcasting Company
S1: for partnering with us to bring the mailbag every week.
S1: It's a wonderful ministry that brings the gospel to people
S1: through media and personal contact through people. And I think
S1: that is a marvelous ministry. If you want to know more,
S1: check out their podcast. It's called Until All I've Heard.
S1: Best way you can find it on any podcast distributor
S1: that you have, but you can also go to their
S1: website febc. Org. So here we are. This is a
S1: team right here. I think this is so interesting because,
S1: you know, even though you're not regularly on Moody Radio
S1: on Openline, you are regularly on Moody Radio with Focal
S1: Point every day.
S2: Yeah. Focal point airs every day, half an hour. A
S2: Bible teaching line by line through Scripture and whenever you're sick,
S2: which you're not sick. Very often I do get the
S2: call from time to time to host this wonderful show
S2: with Trish.
S1: Or if I'm traveling.
S2: Or when you're traveling. That's right.
S1: Or I know you're going to host, uh, at graduation
S1: when I'm the dean, I've got to be there handing
S1: out diplomas. So, uh, happily, you get to go in
S1: and answer questions. I'd rather do what you're doing that way.
S2: And, Trish, are you going to be there that day?
S9: I'm going to be there. Oh, good.
S1: Very good. So, uh, I appreciate you sitting in. That's
S1: part of the team. I really do appreciate it. And
S1: Trish is always part of the team. We have this
S1: great team. Chris Sieghart is here. He's our engineer today.
S1: We have a wonderful team. And there's a team. We
S1: have teammates that people don't even know. Those are the
S1: people who are our kitchen table partners. They are part
S1: of the team. They contribute every month. So I can
S1: be on the air every week and I am so
S1: grateful for them. If anyone's interested in becoming a kitchen
S1: table partner, one of the things that we really like
S1: to do is send a digital Bible study. It's an
S1: audio Bible study that you get in your email. You
S1: click on attrition. I produce it sometimes Eve is on
S1: with me and uh, and we do about a 5
S1: or 10 minute Bible study that's exclusively for our kitchen
S1: table partners. Well, how do you become a kitchen table partner?
S1: All you have to do is go to our website.
S1: That's Openline radio.org. And when you go there, uh, you
S1: can sign up to become a kitchen table partner. And
S1: I'm losing the number. What's the phone number?
S9: (888) 644-7122.
S1: There you go.
S9: 888644.
S1: Thank you. Trish. Uh, what would I do without you?
S9: Yeah, the world would stop.
S2: Spinning, I think.
S1: That's great. Thanks, Tricia.
S10: You're welcome.
S9: Okay.
S1: There we go. Okay, we're going to do the mailbag
S1: right now. So, what do we got?
S9: Our first question is from Andy in Ohio. He listens
S9: to CRF. He's doing a deep dive into Isaiah and
S9: said it's pretty cool. Mhm. So he got to Isaiah 1412.
S9: And the King James version uses Lucifer's name. But none
S9: of the other translations do. Uh, and he said the
S9: presence of that name has impacted how I read the
S9: entire passage. And I've heard many sermons about the five
S9: I will statements that come later. And all of those
S9: treat this passage as being about Satan. But now I'm
S9: wondering if I'm barking up the wrong tree because I'm
S9: not finding this in some of the other places I've looked. Uh,
S9: do you have any insight as to why the King
S9: James translators decided to put Lucifer's name in the passage?
S9: And is this passage talking about Satan?
S1: Okay, well, first of all, Lucifer is not in that text.
S1: I looked it up in Hebrew and it it actually
S1: has these words. Uh, it says star of the morning.
S1: Sun of the dawn. Those are the Hebrew. That's the
S1: translation of the actual Hebrew words. So, uh, I'm not.
S1: I can't speak to why. Maybe, you know, why do
S1: you think it's.
S2: It comes from the Vulgate, as I recall. I don't
S2: have any notes in front of me, but it has
S2: a etymological connection to being a light bearer.
S1: Okay. So the Latin word.
S2: Yes.
S1: There we go. Okay. So, because Luce.
S9: Would be light, I assume. Yes.
S2: Luce. Like, illuminate? Yes.
S9: Right. Yeah. Okay.
S1: So? So that's. So that comes from there.
S2: And here's the objection, by the way. A lot of
S2: people say, oh, it can't we don't like that because
S2: that's a name of of Jesus. And I've had people
S2: call in and say that to me like, well, he's
S2: the morning star. That's what Peter says. Well that's true. Right.
S2: He's also called a lot of things that Jesus is called, right?
S2: So it's not a stumbling block for us to see
S2: that here. Daystar. Right. Is Christ is the real Daystar, obviously, right.
S2: He's an angel of light, right? But he's neither angel
S2: nor light, right. In the sense that we would say
S2: angel in the in the vocabulary of people think he's
S2: a good he's a demon and, you know, he's darkness, but.
S2: So we shouldn't stumble.
S1: Think about this in John eight, uh, the Lord Jesus says,
S1: I am the light of the world. In Matthew five
S1: he says, you are the light of the world. And
S1: so when I believe that this. Now let me just
S1: jump here. And I think we agree about this. We
S1: mentioned it earlier that Isaiah 14 is being directed to
S1: the king of Babylon, but with the king of Babylon,
S1: there's all these earthly, powerful kings. According to Daniel, ten
S1: have forces behind them, evil forces. Uh, and so I
S1: think what happens here in the middle of the chapter
S1: when it addresses him as son of the morning. Uh,
S1: son of the dawn. Whatever it is. Uh, it's going
S1: to the power behind this evil king of Babylon. And
S1: there you have the five I wills. Yeah. Where? But
S1: he says he wants to be, like, the Most High.
S1: And when he was created, he was a beautiful, created being. Right.
S1: And then he wanted to be the very one who
S1: was the uncreated being. He wanted to be as great
S1: as him.
S2: Yeah. The answer to the question. I wouldn't stumble over
S2: the translation because there's a connection to what is in
S2: the Hebrew text here. It's just that if you're going
S2: to look at this and try and back off of
S2: the fact that Satan is seen in the background here,
S2: if not in the foreground of some of these, I
S2: will statements go to Ezekiel 28. It does the same thing.
S2: It sets up a perfect paradigm for us that I
S2: think is followed here as we read this, because Ezekiel 28,
S2: I mean, it's hard to deny it, right? The way
S2: the cherubim is used. Right.
S1: You were in Eden.
S2: Right in Eden. So that one to me is is, uh, absolutely, 100%.
S2: This one I know gets a lot of of, uh, criticism.
S2: And we've talked about this off air before. We didn't
S2: get to this statement. But I think so many people
S2: shy away from these things when they start looking at
S2: Isaiah or Ezekiel or any text of Scripture as purely
S2: a human, uh, authorship. Right. And we've got to remember
S2: the dual authorship of Scripture from beginning to end. If
S2: these are words that are God breathed, right, God is
S2: communicating something beyond what the knowledge of Isaiah or Jeremiah
S2: would have. God is the ultimate author of Scripture, and
S2: this shouldn't open up our minds to all kinds of interpretation,
S2: but it does. We've got to keep in mind the
S2: dual authorship. And in this I think we see the
S2: satanic power behind Babylon.
S1: And listen, I don't think Isaiah would be surprised to
S1: think that the King of Babylon was empowered syntactically. And
S1: just think of Genesis three. I've heard people say, well,
S1: Satan is in in Genesis three. It's only a serpent. Well,
S1: wait a minute. Even in Genesis. Snakes didn't talk. And
S1: they certainly all things that God made were good. So
S1: this snake seems to have a malicious intent to. So,
S1: you know, there's a power behind the serpent that's opening
S1: its mouth.
S2: And revelation puts it to rest. Yeah, right.
S1: Clearly. Yeah. The serpent of old. So I think that's
S1: what's happening with the king of Babylon. That's what's happening
S1: with the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28. Yes, it's
S1: addressing them. But then it goes, you know what's empowering? This?
S1: This is the enemy. Okay.
S9: All right. Thank you. Thank you for that answer. Uh,
S9: CK in Washington listens to KMP in Luke 1941 through 44,
S9: which says as he approached this is Jesus and saw
S9: the city. He wept over it, saying, if you knew
S9: this day what would bring peace, but now it is
S9: hidden from your eyes. For the days will come on
S9: you when your enemies will build an embankment against you,
S9: surround you and hem you in on every side. They
S9: will crush you and your children within, within you, to
S9: the ground, and they will not leave one stone upon
S9: another in you, because you did not recognize the time
S9: of your visitation. So CJ wants to know what is
S9: it that if they had known that that day, what
S9: would have been different? It's as if you knew that
S9: day what would bring peace. But now it's hidden. So
S9: like would, would Rome not have sacked Jerusalem or would
S9: it have altered other events?
S1: Well, the simple question here is what? Why? Why did
S1: Jerusalem get destroyed? And the answer is because Israel failed
S1: to recognize as a nation not not individuals, but as
S1: a whole. The nation did not recognize their time of
S1: visitation by the Messiah. They didn't recognize that Jesus was
S1: the Messiah. And as a result, the discipline that God
S1: brought was the destruction of Jerusalem, not the rejection of
S1: Jewish people for all time, not taking away their promises
S1: that God made, but the destruction of Jerusalem. And it's
S1: important to see that the Lord wept over this. And, uh,
S1: to me, you know, you stand on the Mount of Olives.
S1: There's a church there called Dominus Flevit in Latin. Our
S1: Lord wept. And I had a student that one summer
S1: spent the whole summer. She said she was going to
S1: figure out what broke God's heart so that she could
S1: serve in that ministry, whatever it is. And so she
S1: spent the summer reading the New Testament. What breaks God's heart?
S1: And she said, Jesus wept twice, once at Lazarus grave
S1: over the unbelief of the people, and once here over
S1: Jerusalem for the unbelief about the Messiah. She said, it's
S1: the unbelief of Israel that made the Lord Jesus weep.
S1: And she said, now I know what breaks his heart.
S1: And she's serving in Jerusalem now, which I think is phenomenal. Uh, but, uh,
S1: I think that that's that's wouldn't you agree that that's
S1: the Jerusalem.
S2: Absolutely. I agree with that. Precisely. And I think Romans
S2: 11 is a great commentary on this text. Right. Hidden
S2: from your eyes here in verse 42, again, as Doctor
S2: Riedel rightly said, it's not to every last Jew, but
S2: he says, this partial hardening of Israel has come right.
S2: And so that's what they miss. They miss their Messiah
S2: and the kingdom being offered, as we often say. Right.
S2: They they rejected Christ, and Christ wept over that. And
S2: in God's big plan, obviously now we have this period
S2: of time with this new thing called the church, and
S2: that's going to fulfill God's plan until we get back
S2: to seeing that great Romans 11 revival of Jacob being
S2: turned to the Messiah.
S1: And the great news here as we go to break,
S1: is that there's even today, in this period, a remnant
S1: according to God's gracious choice. That's sort of down payment,
S1: because one day God's going to bring all Israel. The
S1: whole nation will turn in faith to Jesus and be
S1: redeemed by him and delivered by him. We're looking forward
S1: to that day. Uh, we're going to come right back
S1: with more of your questions. You're listening to Open Line
S1: at the National Religious Broadcasters with Mike Bowers, Tricia McMillan
S1: and me, Michael Ray. We'll be right back. Have you
S1: ever wondered how we got the Bible? The story of
S1: the Bible by Carl Laney takes you on a fascinating
S1: journey through scriptures from divine inspiration to modern translations. Doctor
S1: Laney reveals how God gave us his word. This book
S1: will deepen your confidence in the Bible's reliability while answering
S1: questions you've always had. If you'd like a copy, it's yours.
S1: When you give a gift of any size, just go
S1: to our website, openlibrary.org or call 886447122. And we're back.
S1: My name is Michael Melnick. I'm so glad that you're
S1: listening to Open Line. Today we're at the National Religious
S1: Broadcasters Convention, and so there are no calls today. But
S1: the questions are coming from our audience right here in
S1: the studio. Joining me is Doctor Michael Bears Compass Bible
S1: Church and Focal Point Radio. In case you're wondering who
S1: he is, he's my you sub for me all the time.
S2: I do and I love it.
S1: Yeah, it's.
S2: So much fun.
S1: Yeah. I always have someone drink my tea or coffee
S1: before I have it. If you're around because I. You
S1: like this program so much, I may be out of
S1: the way soon. So.
S2: Well, that's all up to Trish.
S1: Yeah, right. Well, we're going to go right back to
S1: questions right now okay.
S11: My name is Greg and I just have a I
S11: just marvel at the, um, just the synergy of the
S11: Bible from front to back. And, um, we were reading
S11: the daily Bible reading with our kids and In numbers
S11: eight just the other day, and it says it's talking
S11: about the cleansing of the Levites. And it says thus
S11: you shall separate the Levites from among the people of Israel,
S11: and the Levites shall be mine. And then you go
S11: down a few verses and he says, for they are
S11: wholly given to me from among the people of Israel,
S11: instead of all who opened the womb, the firstborn of
S11: all the people of Israel. So I'm fascinated, first of all,
S11: of that pattern of substitution. But why there? He had
S11: all the firstborn. That would be a substitution. But now
S11: he's going to make all the Levites. A substitution. Can
S11: you maybe expound on that a little?
S1: Well, God's choice is what I would say. Uh, I
S1: think that he, uh. I don't think God changes his mind.
S1: I think he wanted to. Because today in Judaism, we
S1: still do the redemption of the firstborn. So that's to
S1: remind people that God redeemed the firstborn. Uh, and it
S1: is a, a sense that, uh, people still have to
S1: remember that, uh, that God redeemed the firstborn out of
S1: Egypt and they belong to him. And now God chose
S1: to make, uh, the the priests and the Levites serve him,
S1: and but they still have to remember they it's sort
S1: of like they're substitutes for the the firstborns that were redeemed.
S2: Yeah. And I just think the concept in general. Right.
S2: The hierarchy of siblings, this represents everyone living on borrowed time, right?
S2: No one deserves. Which goes back to the Exodus. Right?
S2: In Exodus chapter 12, the idea of God saying, you,
S2: you all deserve to die. The wages of sin is death,
S2: but you get to live.
S1: We all deserve to die. Right.
S2: That's true. Yeah. And here is the representative of your family,
S2: this generation from this mom. And. Yeah, but the Levites
S2: end up being that. And remember, they don't get land,
S2: they don't get property. The Lord is their inheritance. And
S2: they become. And I remember being struck by that to
S2: reading that afresh. It's just interesting how they serve as
S2: the stand ins. As God says, these are mine. They
S2: don't have they don't get to have a regular Jewish
S2: life in an agrarian society. They now are God's people,
S2: serving God's interests and doing God's work. And think about
S2: it even on the Sabbath, as the Bible points out,
S2: they don't get to rest like everyone else. They're working.
S1: They're working.
S2: The idea of them being just focused on God was
S2: God's way of saying, you all should do that.
S1: But I just think, but they did get to eat
S1: more steak.
S2: They did. They ate a lot of steak and smelt
S2: good at their workplace.
S1: That's right. So okay.
S12: I am Keith from Peoria, Illinois, WGBH radio, and we're
S12: appearing to be closer to Jesus's return. I just wondering
S12: if you could comment a little bit on the things
S12: that you're seeing, signs of the times, the temple being rebuilt,
S12: the red heifer, things like that, where we're getting excited
S12: for his return and some of those signs.
S1: I'm just going to start by saying that I happen
S1: to believe, and I think it's from what the Lord
S1: Jesus said, no one knows the day or hour is coming.
S1: I believe in Imminency, and it's one of the reasons
S1: that I believe that the rapture when the Lord what
S1: I call it, the the great swoosh. No, the the.
S13: The great swoosh. No, I'm writing that down.
S1: You know, when we're just called up, you know, uh,
S1: that can happen any moment and nothing else has to happen. Uh,
S1: because Imminency requires that. And and so because of that, uh, it's,
S1: it's important that that we recognize that so often we think, oh, oh,
S1: these things have to happen first. And no, nothing has
S1: to happen. Although I have to say that the rebirth
S1: of the State of Israel. So many of the end
S1: time events revolve around what's going on in Israel. That
S1: tells me we're closer. However, I think that the the
S1: idea is that the we can be snatched at any moment. Uh,
S1: did you want to say anything?
S13: I was just going to say.
S2: I do think that God would have us all expect
S2: his return. I absolutely believe in the imminence. The doctrine
S2: of the imminence. I think it could happen at any time.
S2: Nothing has to happen in history or archaeology or politics
S2: to have Christ take his church home. But I think
S2: all of these things, like in every generation, we should
S2: be expecting it. If we're not supposed to be surprised
S2: at his coming. The only way to not be surprised
S2: is something that's not announced is to always expect it.
S2: And so I even think some of the things in,
S2: in the news, uh, sometimes are just little reminders and
S2: nudges from God's Spirit to always be ready.
S13: Yeah.
S1: We always have to be ready. And I would even
S1: go further. Uh, a lot of the stuff you hear. Oh,
S1: they're rebuilding the temple. No they're not. Uh, the red heifer.
S1: The red heifer is completely misunderstood. Judaism said there has
S1: to be a red heifer without even one white hair.
S1: That's not what the Bible requires. So there's a lot
S1: of things. And every time there's a war in the
S1: Middle East, people say, ah, this is it. Well, truth
S1: to tell, there have been a lot of wars in
S1: the Middle East. Uh, when someone called Open Line during
S1: the pandemic and said, I heard that the vaccine, the, uh,
S1: the required vaccine is that that's the mark of the beast.
S1: And I said he said, I heard a rumor about that.
S1: I said, did you start that rumor? So, uh, the
S1: the point is, there's always going to be something happening
S1: during the days of World War Two, it was Hitler
S1: and Mussolini, uh, during the time of the Reformation. Martin
S1: Luther said it was the Pope who was the Antichrist
S1: that was being revealed. And so there's always something happening
S1: in history. And I think you're right, Mike. It's just
S1: to keep us on our toes. It could happen at
S1: any moment, don't you think?
S2: Absolutely.
S1: Yeah. And be ready. Be ready. Everybody be ready. Uh, well,
S1: thank you for joining me this hour.
S2: It's been fun.
S1: I really, really appreciate it. And that's the program for
S1: the for the week. Uh, thanks for listening. Everyone out there. Uh,
S1: especially thanks to those of you here who asked the questions.
S1: Really appreciate you doing that. And thanks, Tricia, for all
S1: you do. And, Chris, uh, to keep the program on target. Remember,
S1: keep in touch with Open Line during the week by
S1: going to our website, online radio.org has all the links
S1: you're looking for, whether it's a, uh, how to give
S1: a get our current resource or to become a kitchen
S1: table partner. It's all there. Keep reading the Bible. We'll
S1: talk about it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael
S1: Radulovic is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of
S1: Moody Bible Institute.