S1: You saw their faces on posters as hostages, and then
S1: you saw them making their way through the jeering Hamas
S1: crowds released after more than a year in captivity. But
S1: what secrets do these Israeli hostages hold? What scars do
S1: they bear? Coming up, we'll get insights from an expert.
S1: Who knows? Plus, our devotional takes you into Hezekiah's famous
S1: water tunnel. And we'll connect with more of your Bible questions, too.
S1: Welcome to the land and the book. I'm John Gager
S1: and our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, is out of the
S1: studio on assignment for the next two weeks, but before
S1: he left, he was kind enough to share his thoughts
S1: with you and me about the headlines coming out of
S1: the Middle East this week, and we'll get to all
S1: of that and more. First, though, Passover will soon be
S1: upon us, right? And one of the traditional Passover questions
S1: is what makes this night different from all others? Well,
S1: Passover is an important biblical holiday that has great meaning
S1: for Jewish people and for believers in Jesus. And this
S1: is a great question to ask. Now, if you want
S1: to learn more about what makes Passover so very special.
S1: Our friends at Life in Messiah are offering to mail
S1: you a free copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. This
S1: is a booklet that will lead you through the celebration
S1: of Passover to see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah,
S1: and the Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for
S1: an interactive Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and the
S1: video together. You can really celebrate Passover this year with
S1: your family and friends. Now, to get this free offer,
S1: just go to Life in messiah.org and click on the
S1: Moody Radio button. You'll see there to learn more and
S1: to request your copy. Again, that's life in messiah.org. All right.
S1: Let's take a look at current events based in the
S1: Middle East. This week. The debate over the future of
S1: Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza continues, even as negotiations
S1: get underway for the next phase of the hostage deal
S1: amid calls for renewed fighting. What do we need to
S1: know about all these discussions? Well, Charlie Dyer suggests we
S1: need to start by saying that when dealing with Hamas,
S1: anything is possible. They've broken virtually every promise they've made
S1: in the hostage negotiations, even trying to pass off the
S1: wrong body for the mother that they had brutally killed
S1: along with her two sons. The first phase of the
S1: hostage deal is scheduled to expire today. And and there's
S1: been some concern over whether the second phase will actually
S1: even continue. Now, if no agreement is reached, Israel has
S1: said it will resume the war. However, there's been a
S1: bit of optimism over the past week because of two issues.
S1: The first is Ramadan, which just began Friday night. Now,
S1: Hamas would prefer not to resume fighting right now, since
S1: during Ramadan they're to refrain from eating and drinking during
S1: the day, and this could make it more difficult physically
S1: to fight while also making them more vulnerable to attack
S1: at night when they stay up after dark to break
S1: their fast. the second reason that they would like the
S1: cease fire to continue is that they want more aid
S1: convoys into Gaza, including the heavy equipment being sent in
S1: to clear rubble. Well, the hostages are their ace in
S1: the hole, no doubt about that. And the thing that
S1: kept Israel from being more aggressive in trying to root
S1: them out. But right now, Hamas has been willing to
S1: give up at least some hostages to buy time to
S1: regroup and rearm. Still, don't expect them to willingly give
S1: up all hostages or to cede power and control over Gaza.
S1: At the same time, Israel's anger over Hamas's brutal murders
S1: of Shiri Bibas and her two young children is palpable.
S1: And if fighting does resume, Israel is strongly united in
S1: wanting to eliminate Hamas once and for all. The struggle
S1: over what Gaza will look like the day after all
S1: the fighting ends is still very much up in the air.
S1: By and large, Israel embraces President Trump's proposal, while also
S1: surrounding Arab nations and much of the rest of the
S1: world does not. Hopefully some of this can even be
S1: sorted out during Ramadan. While most, if not all, of
S1: the remaining hostages are released. Story number two Egypt has
S1: been beefing up its armed forces along its border with
S1: Israel and Gaza. And you have to wonder, is this
S1: a defensive move on their part or an offensive one?
S1: And how concerned should Israel be? Well, in spite of
S1: some breathless reports suggesting a possible prelude to war, Doctor
S1: Dyer suggests this seems to be something far less ominous.
S1: Back in 2018, Israel gave Egypt permission to almost double
S1: its forces in Sinai to put down or fight Islamic
S1: extremists in the area, and at the same time, Egypt
S1: has given Israel permission to conduct airstrikes in the Sinai
S1: at smuggling targets. Two things are likely behind the current
S1: increase in Egyptian forces. First, it might be partly in
S1: response to Israel's occupying of the Philadelphi corridor between Gaza
S1: and Egypt, which Israel took over in spite of Egypt's objections.
S1: Moving Egyptian forces closer to the border would be seen
S1: as a popular move by Egyptians to protect their country
S1: should Israel move into Egyptian territory, which, by the way,
S1: Israel isn't planning to do. Second, the force could be
S1: there to guard against any plan to open the border,
S1: to allow hundreds of thousands of Gazans to flee across
S1: into Egypt. Allowing Hamas terrorists into Egypt would pose a
S1: real threat to the current government in Egypt, which overthrew
S1: the previous Muslim Brotherhood Islamic government. Until the issue of
S1: Hamas and the people of Gaza is resolved, the uncertainty
S1: will continue to keep Egypt on its toes. But right now,
S1: this isn't a prelude to an Egyptian attack against Israel,
S1: that much we know from Moody Radio. This is the
S1: land and the book. I'm John Geiger. If you joined
S1: us midstream, our host, doctor Charlie Dyer, out on assignment.
S1: But he shared his perspectives on the week's news and
S1: headlines that we're sharing with you now. Last weekend and
S1: into this past Monday, Israel experienced another winter storm, this
S1: one named coral. What impact did the storm have on Israel,
S1: you wonder? Well, unfortunately, the impact Israel was hoping for
S1: a nice extended soaking rain didn't really happen. Instead, coral
S1: brought mainly unseasonably low temperatures, frost in some areas and
S1: strong winds, but only a little rain and a dusting
S1: of snow up in the higher elevations. Now the Sea
S1: of Galilee crept a few inches higher, though it's still
S1: nearly eight feet below the upper red line, which is
S1: full capacity. So they're down quite a bit. And while
S1: it's still possible for more rainfall this month, right now
S1: it's looking like this year is turning out to be
S1: significantly below average in terms of rainfall. The impact won't
S1: be as great on Israel because of their desalination plants,
S1: but countries like Jordan, countries like Iran, were already experiencing
S1: water shortages. So we'll see what happens there. This winter
S1: has seen the lowest amount of rainfall in Jordan. Get
S1: this now. In 65 years in Iran, rainfall across 29
S1: provinces has dropped by a third since October. This follows
S1: a year of weather extremes, including heavy flooding in the
S1: central and southeastern regions of the country. Egypt has always
S1: been known as the gift of the Nile, right? But
S1: they're also experiencing a rapidly increasing gap between the Nile's
S1: limited resources and the country's rapidly increasing population. 95% of
S1: Egypt is desert, with virtually all of the country's 114
S1: million people living along both banks of the Nile River.
S1: Ethiopia's Grand Ethiopian Renaissance Dam is threatening to cut into
S1: Egypt's supply of water from the Nile. Simply put, they're
S1: running out of water, and any increase in rainfall in
S1: the region will not really impact Egypt. As someone has observed,
S1: the next year in the Middle East could end up
S1: being over water. Stay tuned. Our fourth story, a recently
S1: translated Old Babylonian flood tablet, adds new dimensions to the
S1: debate over Noah's Ark. What, if anything, can we learn
S1: from this tablet? Well, let's start with the most important lesson.
S1: Charlie says this tablet, along with others discovered in that region,
S1: align with the Bible in describing a flood that destroyed
S1: the world, apart from those individuals who entered into a boat. Now,
S1: I believe all the stories are pointing back to a
S1: historical reality, that there really was a universal flood that
S1: destroyed all of humanity except Noah and his family. This
S1: new flood tablet had some other details that also align
S1: with the biblical account on two major points. First, it
S1: records that God gave the hero of the story detailed
S1: instructions on how to build and waterproof an ark or
S1: ship to survive the flood. And second, it reports that
S1: the animals came into the ark two by two. Now
S1: that's remarkable. But at the same time, we need to
S1: remember one key fact the Bible records the event as
S1: it actually happened. While these other accounts record the event
S1: as it was passed down between subsequent generations, and as
S1: it was passed down, many of the details became corrupted.
S1: For example, the Ark and the new flood tablet is
S1: round and shaped like the small round boats used in Mesopotamia.
S1: That's what they knew as a boat. But this boat
S1: was 230ft in diameter, with 20 foot high walls. It
S1: would definitely not have withstood a severe flood with all
S1: the wind, the waves and the rain. Well, the best
S1: lesson here is the reality that the multiple flood accounts
S1: serve as a reminder that there must have been an
S1: actual flood that really did occur, in which God saved
S1: individuals and animals by having them build an ark. And
S1: the second lesson is that the details in most of
S1: these other accounts depart from reality, as the writers try
S1: to visualize the events through their own experiences. Thus, the
S1: arc looks like a giant version of the little boats
S1: that they were using on the water. But the biblical
S1: account describes in great detail a vessel that had never
S1: existed and that wasn't in existence afterward either. But that
S1: is so exact that we can build a replica today
S1: and know that it could float, and that it could
S1: hold Noah and his family and all those animals. When
S1: you think about it, it has the ring of reality
S1: to it, doesn't it? And that's a look at current events.
S1: You know, we'd love for you to check out our podcast.
S1: You'll find it at our page, The land and the
S1: book org. That podcast, you can enjoy yourself and share
S1: it with a friend as well. It's a great way
S1: to grow this program and and to encourage others about
S1: what you're learning. Our Facebook page is always available to you.
S1: Lots of great photos and things that Charlie posts there
S1: week after week as well. We welcome you to email
S1: your Bible question to us. You know you can't help it,
S1: but open up your copy of the scriptures and bump
S1: into something that makes you wonder. Scratch your head. Makes
S1: you ponder. Why not get an answer to that question
S1: when you email us at The Land and the book@moody.edu.
S1: That's the land and the book@moody.edu. And while you're in
S1: the writing mood, we'd love to hear how the program
S1: helps you or encourages you. Again, write to us at
S1: the Land and the book@moody.edu. Well, what do former Israeli
S1: hostages deal with now? So many questions, so many scars,
S1: so many things to think about. It's a conversation we're
S1: going to have next here on the land and the book.
S1: You won't hear it anywhere else, so stick around for
S1: more right here on.
UU: The land and the book.
S1: You saw their faces on posters as hostages, and then
S1: you saw them making their way through the jeering Hamas
S1: crowds released after more than a year in captivity back
S1: to Israel. But what secrets do they hold? What scars
S1: do they bear? We'll get insights from an expert. Who knows?
S1: Next from Moody Radio. This is the land and the book.
S1: I'm John Gager. Glad you've joined us for the second
S1: segment of our broadcast. I want to introduce you to
S1: today's guest. Rabbi Steven Weil began his career as a
S1: pulpit rabbi, first serving at the Young Israel of Oak
S1: Park in Detroit, Michigan, and then at Congregation Beth Jacob
S1: in Beverly Hills, California. In 2009, he assumed the position
S1: of Senior Managing Director of the Orthodox Union, leading their
S1: institutional advancement and community engagement efforts. In 2020, he was
S1: appointed Chief Executive Officer of the friends of the Israel
S1: Defense Forces as an internationally recognized scholar and lecturer. Rabbi
S1: Weil has lectured in over 50 communities throughout North America
S1: and more than 15 countries across Europe, the Middle East
S1: and South Africa. Well, we're really glad to have you
S1: join us today on the land and the book. Welcome,
S1: Rabbi Weil.
S2: It's an honor to be with you on the land
S2: in the book. And I want to thank you very much.
S1: Well, I have to ask right off the bat. You,
S1: I understand, have a child that is in the Israel
S1: Defense Forces right now. What is that like to be
S1: a parent of somebody who's involved with the IDF?
S2: It's been a challenging two years. In fact, my daughter's
S2: roommate was actually killed during the war. Good friend and
S2: a roommate, a young woman from Dunwoody, Georgia. So it's
S2: been very challenging.
S3: Yeah. For sure.
S1: How have your perspectives been changed, or at least influenced
S1: by first hand accounts that you hear from having a
S1: soldier in the family?
S3: Well, I would.
S2: Say the following. I think that the challenge they face,
S2: even though what we've seen in Lebanon and Syria, is
S2: nothing short of miraculous in terms of what they've been
S2: able to accomplish and the way they've been able to
S2: respond and rebound from October 7th, 2023. That's on the
S2: one hand, but I think the challenge is moving forward
S2: are twofold. One is, is that you're going to have
S2: a lot of these young people that will have PTSD issues,
S2: all kinds of challenges, because the brutality of this war,
S2: the way Hamas uses human shields, the activities that they
S2: did on October 7th that are undescribable. And that's going
S2: to be a challenge for them. Yeah, that's one factor.
S2: I think the other factor is, is that you're going
S2: to go from an army that was relying on intelligence
S2: and technology, and you saw the success of that in
S2: Lebanon and Syria. But there's no substitute for foot soldiers.
S2: If there had been one brigade on the Gaza border.
S2: October 7th, there were a couple of battalions, but had
S2: there been an additional brigade, that would have never happened.
S2: And it's going to change the need, for instance, going
S2: from two years and eight months of mandatory service to
S2: three years, young men and young women in their 20s
S2: and early 30s. In 2025 are going to have to
S2: be doing two months of reserves. Now think about that
S2: as an employer, right? You're going to be missing your
S2: young staff for a significant part of the year. So
S2: there are some real challenges ahead. On the other hand,
S2: Israel is probably safer today than it's been in the
S2: last 20, 25 years.
S3: Sure.
S1: Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're here to talk about the hostages
S1: as our main focus, 251 of them who have been
S1: at the epicenter of a drama that began, as you say,
S1: back on October the 7th, 2023. What do you think, Rabbi?
S1: Americans maybe not quite understand about the taking of those hostages.
S2: The brutality and the abuse in terms of how they
S2: were treated is very significant. I'll give you just a
S2: couple of statistics. The hostages that were released during a
S2: temporary cease fire in November of 23 of those hostages, 80%
S2: of them were not sexually or physically abused. 20% were,
S2: but 100% of them were emotionally abused in just some
S2: very evil, horrific ways. And the ramifications of that, you know,
S2: in terms of how they lead their lives moving forward
S2: and have had the chance to sit with many of them,
S2: as well as to sit with the team of psychologists
S2: that's working with them to try to mainstream them back
S2: into regular civilian life. Those are things that are going
S2: to bear with them for years.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Rabbi Steven Weil is the chief executive officer of the
S1: friends of the Israel Defense Forces. I'm John Geiger. This
S1: is the land and the book. We hear bits and
S1: pieces of information about the lives of the hostages while
S1: living in Gaza. But specifics have been very few and
S1: far between. I can only assume that's because this is
S1: very much an active, hostile action underway.
S3: Your thoughts? Yeah.
S2: Just one other fact that's interesting is that those hostages
S2: that have transitioned back to any sense of normalcy, the
S2: ones that have done the best, is when they were
S2: held as a group, not as an individual, in isolation.
S2: None of them were allowed to speak. I'll give you
S2: an example. Many of the hostages who've been released in
S2: 23 hostages have been released now in 2025. Many of
S2: them took 4 or 5 days before they stopped whispering.
S2: They weren't allowed to speak out loud.
S3: Wow.
S2: Some of them were not allowed to speak in Hebrew.
S2: You know, but those who at least were in captivity
S2: with others, they had each other to strengthen each other.
S2: One of the young women who was released in 2025,
S2: you know, she observed, the fast of Yom Kippur, the
S2: holiest day of the year. She observed the fast on
S2: the ninth of AV. How she was able to keep
S2: a calendar and know the days is also shows something
S2: incredible for a 19 year old young woman. And so
S2: those have done better as well. Believe it or not,
S2: I think we've all heard that term the Stockholm syndrome.
S2: There were a few cases where, because most hostages were
S2: not kept in large groups, they were either kept in
S2: isolation or they were kept in small groups of three.
S2: And what happened was there were a few cases where
S2: it was there were Hamas affiliated civilians that were controlling them,
S2: and a couple of cases where they actually treated them
S2: like a pseudo human being. They didn't treat them worse
S2: than you would treat an animal. And in those cases,
S2: they also transitioned a little bit better. They transitioned to
S2: a greater degree because their sense of of humanity, you know,
S2: at least existed during their time of captivity. That's not
S2: true for most of them.
S1: Last March, our host, Charlie Dyer and his wife Kathy,
S1: along with me and my wife Diana, we traveled to Israel,
S1: and there we met with the families of several hostages
S1: and the agony on their faces and in their voices
S1: made it difficult to sleep. And ever since then, you know,
S1: to most Americans, these hostages were just faces. But to us,
S1: they were. They were like friends. Every news report, every update,
S1: every photo or video that we saw. We looked for
S1: our loved ones and we prayed for them. Talk about
S1: the role of of connection in understanding the hardships that
S1: these families have gone through as they wait for their
S1: loved ones.
S2: I'll give you an example. We've you know, we've met
S2: with many of the parents or spouses of those who
S2: are being held, you and I, if the phone rings. Okay.
S2: The phone is ringing. You know, if I'm in a meeting,
S2: we'll return the call later. Every time the phone rings,
S2: they're in a state of trauma. Because is this going
S2: to be the army notifying them that their loved one
S2: is no longer alive? In the case of the Army,
S2: they don't do that. They do that in person. But
S2: just a phone ringing that you and I take for
S2: granted is a traumatic experience for them every time that
S2: it happens.
S1: What kind of secrets about Hamas do you think these
S1: former hostages hold?
S3: Um.
S2: Little children, you know, 4 or 5, seven, eight year
S2: old children in Gaza. Every time they mention the word
S2: Jew or Israel, they spit. You know, you've got little
S2: children treating hostages, you know, worse than you treat the
S2: most wild animal that exists. It's just, you know, no
S2: human being is prepared for something like that. And no
S2: human being is prepared to see that another human being
S2: is so bereft of decency of humanity that they act
S2: that way, and that they've so poisoned the next generation,
S2: the children of Gaza, you know, they subscribe. Not all
S2: of them, but I would say 70% of the population
S2: believes in a dimension of Islam known as the Muslim Brotherhood.
S2: What is the Muslim Brotherhood? That any Christian or Jew
S2: who's on a land that at one time was islamically controlled.
S2: For instance, the Balkan states, for instance, southern Spain, Andalusia,
S2: central Spain, Castile. That has to be Muslim land. It's
S2: not just Israel. And they don't believe that in a
S2: theoretical sense. They believe that in an active sense that
S2: the most important thing they can do on this earth
S2: is rid infidels, rid Jews and Christians from land that
S2: they deemed to be Muslim land. And that's their religion.
S2: That's not the typical Sunni Muslim on this earth. It isn't.
S2: But that is the theology of the Muslim Brotherhood, which
S2: is why they've been expelled from Saudi Arabia, expelled from
S2: the Emirates. They're illegal in Egypt, but yet in Gaza,
S2: with the support of Qatar and with the support of
S2: Turkey in Gaza, that is the theology. And that's what
S2: they believe in. And it's a vicious, vicious theology.
S1: This is the land and the book. I'm John Gager,
S1: and if you joined us midstream, we're talking with Rabbi
S1: Steven Weil about the state of the Israeli hostages taken
S1: by Hamas. What do you think will be the greatest
S1: factors in determining the success of their transition back, to quote,
S1: normal life? I mean, can it ever be that way again?
S2: I would say there's two factors. One thing about Israel,
S2: it's a big family. It's a small country, but it's
S2: a big family. And the love there that they have
S2: for each other and the support, you know, whether it's
S2: the extended family structure, whether it's the community structure, it's
S2: very significant in America. You don't see that outside of
S2: a church or outside of a synagogue community. But in Israel,
S2: it's just part of life. So there's an incredible network
S2: and support system. And the other part of it is,
S2: is that they have psychologists who are designated for each
S2: of the hostages to do serious therapy to support them.
S2: And many of these hostages have transitioned fairly well. Now,
S2: the hostages that are coming out in 2025. We don't
S2: have data yet. And we you know, we won't know
S2: that for months and months. But, um, there is an
S2: incredible support system, an incredible network and incredible love. And
S2: that love is so tangible.
S3: Yeah.
S2: And faith is a major factor. The faith is a
S2: major factor. And it's a country where the majority of
S2: the people have a very serious faith in God, very
S2: serious tradition of religion. And in that sense, those will
S2: help in a very significant way over the course of
S2: the years.
S1: In addition to that, what kinds of tools do caregivers,
S1: professional and non-professional, have to help in the recovery process?
S2: Probably I you know, and please push. If I'm not
S2: being clear, I would say it's it's the therapy. I
S2: think it's the ability to listen. I think it's the
S2: ability to give space to the hostages. You know, everyone
S2: deals with trauma in a different way. And part of
S2: the challenge, and this is true in general of survivor
S2: is survivor always asks, why me? In other words, think
S2: about a Holocaust survivor where the whole family was killed.
S2: They're haunted the rest of their life with this guilt.
S2: You know, why did I survive? I wasn't the most righteous.
S2: I wasn't the kindest, you know. And there's that. We
S2: call it survivor guilt. And I think you'll see that'll
S2: be a factor as well.
S1: I want to go back to a figure. You used
S1: to talk about some of the hostages that have previously
S1: been released, 80% not sexually or physically abused, but 20%
S1: of them certainly sexually abused. Physically abused. Do you think
S1: those numbers are going to be typical for the entire
S1: group of hostages yet to be released?
S2: I think the numbers will be much worse of those
S2: yet to be released.
S3: Why do you say that?
S2: Because of the duration of time that they're there. And
S2: as the first group that was released were either liberated
S2: by the army or in a cease fire. Those were
S2: 50 some days we're looking at. Hostages came out in
S2: January and came out in February that were in captivity
S2: for 470, 480, 490 days. Very, very different situation.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Well, in 30s, what do you think listeners could or
S1: should do to help in this situation? We feel helpless,
S1: but our hearts go out to these families. What can
S1: we do?
S2: Well, you know, your prayers are very crucial. Number one.
S2: Number two is being an advocate for Israel, because Israel
S2: is not just about Israel, and it's not just about
S2: the Jews. It's really on the front line of what
S2: the 21st century is going to look like. Will it
S2: be a century of barbarism, of the justification of evil,
S2: or will it be a century of justice, of decency
S2: and morality? And that is what Israel is, and that's
S2: what Israel represents. But in many media and many campuses
S2: across America. There's such a perversion of facts, such a
S2: perversion of the truth. And to be an advocate is very,
S2: very significant.
S1: That's Rabbi Steven Weil, chief executive officer of the friends
S1: of the Israel Defense Forces. A link to his website.
S1: When you visit ours at the land and the book. Org.
S1: Thanks for your time, sir.
S2: Thank you very much, John.
S1: And we're looking at a brand new set of Bible
S1: questions and answers that's coming up in our next segment
S1: right here. There's just no two ways about it. The
S1: Bible is an absolutely amazing book. You could read it
S1: and reread it and read it 400 times in a
S1: row and not run out of wonder and more importantly,
S1: perhaps not run out of questions. What do you do
S1: with them? Well, we suggest you shove them our way.
S1: This is the land and the book. I'm John Gager
S1: joined in studio now by Doctor Gerald Peterman, who's about
S1: to answer some questions that have come in via email. First, though,
S1: this quick thought what does Passover mean for us as
S1: believers in Jesus? Some might remember the story from the
S1: book of Exodus, but there's so much more to it.
S1: Did you know that the Last Supper was actually a
S1: Passover meal? Not only did Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover,
S1: it also foreshadowed his death on the cross for our redemption.
S1: Jewish people, of course, have been observing the feast of
S1: Passover for thousands of years. Understanding the history and importance
S1: of this holiday will help you better connect with your
S1: Jewish friends and neighbors. And boy, what better way is
S1: there to learn about Passover than to experience a Passover
S1: Seder yourself if you have never celebrated Passover? Our friends
S1: at Life in Messiah would love to partner with you
S1: in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their staff engage
S1: churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah in the
S1: Passover Seder, allowing participants to taste and see the redemption story.
S1: If you're interested in having somebody come to lead a
S1: Seder in your area, visit Life in Messiah. Org and
S1: click on the Moody Radio button there to learn more.
S1: That's life in messiah.org. Well, it's always good to see
S1: the very smiling, very competent Doctor Gerald Peterman, professor of
S1: Bible at the Moody Bible Institute in our studio. Ready
S1: to go, are you, sir?
S4: Yes. And I'm giving a big amen to your encouraging
S4: people to go to a Seder. It's wonderful. All right.
S1: Good for that. You know, we had a Seder at
S1: our church, and boy, what an awesome experience that was.
S1: So anyway, yeah, I agree with you. Let's get to
S1: Avis's question. She says. I'm asking about the locations of
S1: the four rivers of the Garden of Eden. Tigris and
S1: Euphrates are familiar. The East of the Eden study by
S1: Sandra Richter shows the pishon in Arabia next to Egypt.
S1: My Harpercollins dictionary says the Gihon and Kush, which is
S1: now Ethiopia. My Bible class was surprised by that. To
S1: think that the Garden of Eden was that large. And,
S1: you know, I have no problem with it extending to Ethiopia.
S1: But can you confirm the locations of the rivers or
S1: add any comments from my Bible class?
S4: Oh yeah, I'm so glad you're looking into this. You
S4: have your rivers, correct? Pishon, Gihon, Tigris and Euphrates and
S4: the rivers do cover a lot of territory. Let's go
S4: back to Genesis two and we're going to start at
S4: verse eight. It says, and the Lord God planted a
S4: garden in Eden in the east. And there he put
S4: the man whom he had formed. So there is the garden.
S4: It is in Eden, and Eden is said to be
S4: in the east. So it looks like Eden is actually
S4: larger than the garden, because the garden is planted in Eden,
S4: not said to be Eden. And if we keep reading on,
S4: here's what we find in verse ten. And the river
S4: flowed out of Eden to water the garden, and there
S4: it divided and became four rivers. And then in verses
S4: 11 to 14 we read about the places where the
S4: four rivers go, including Havilah, Cush, Assyria. So rather than
S4: saying that the garden itself extends as far as javelin,
S4: Kush and Assyria, I think it's better to say that
S4: we don't know how much land the garden covered, but
S4: that the river that flowed through it watered a vast territory.
S1: So we're talking about a big chunk of land. The
S1: Garden of Eden was not a little thing.
S4: Not a little thing.
S1: You know, we go to Israel and we go to
S1: the Garden of Gethsemane. Well, the Garden of Eden was way,
S1: way bigger than that, you're saying? Right. Possibly hundreds of.
S4: Miles. Possibly hundreds of miles.
S1: Nancy has a question for us. How did God provide
S1: the very rare ingredients for incense ordered in Exodus 30,
S1: verse 40? She says, I looked it up and found
S1: that Ankia comes from sea snails. I know with God
S1: all things are possible, but sea snails.
S4: Isn't God amazing? The best theory about the incense mentioned
S4: there in Exodus 30 is that stoked is probably from
S4: the sap of the storax tree, and Galbanum is a
S4: gum resin that comes from Ferula gummosa plants. And these
S4: are all native to the Mediterranean, so they'd be easy
S4: to find. Now let's go to Annika. This is a
S4: species of marine mollusk. As you mentioned, they're called Strombus.
S4: And they can be found in one, I guess the
S4: Red sea. So that's the eastern border of Egypt. And
S4: of course, the Israelites had to pass through the Red
S4: sea with no water, right, to get to the Promised Land.
S4: Maybe they even picked some up on the way. So
S4: God provided.
S1: Interesting. Ali is question. We toured Israel 18 months ago.
S1: Our tour guide spoke of living in Ashdod with no
S1: bomb shelter because that's all he could afford. Here's the question.
S1: With so many Jews migrating to Israel, where are they
S1: all living?
S4: It's a great question. I'm going to read an answer
S4: provided by Charlie Dyer and it goes like this. The
S4: short answer is Israel is living all over. Okay. Ashkelon.
S4: Ashdod have expanded greatly. Some of the older apartment buildings
S4: in some towns don't have bomb shelters, but most of
S4: the new construction does. And when John and I were
S4: in Israel in March, we visited the apartment of a
S4: friend who lives in Ascalon, just seven miles from the
S4: Gaza border. And we actually did some recording in the
S4: so-called safe room in their apartment, which had a blast
S4: door and a heavy metal plate that could slide over
S4: the window. Older apartments don't have this, but newer ones do.
S4: Other modern towns have developed in Israel all over the place,
S4: with safe rooms and bomb shelters. These include small cities
S4: like Har Gilo, Har Homa, Ma'aleh Adumim, Givat Shaul, Pisgat
S4: Ze'ev which are really bedroom communities to Jerusalem. And we
S4: could go on and on and on. Israel is doing
S4: a lot of building furiously to keep up with its
S4: population growth. And while some towns along the border of Gaza,
S4: like Ashkelon and Ashdod, were impacted by the war, many
S4: others were not. In the north, there's been much growth
S4: around the area of Haifa, Jezreel Valley, Nazareth, Tiberius and
S4: other towns. So Israel is a really small country, and
S4: it's under a lot of pressure to build because the
S4: population is expanding and expanding.
S1: Yeah, people sometimes think of Israel and they equate it with,
S1: you know, O little town of Bethlehem, you know thy
S1: dreamless streets. Well, there aren't too many dreamless streets these days. Right.
S1: They're alive with jackhammers and cranes and construction workers. And
S1: everywhere you turn, you're seeing something new being built. So that's.
S1: That's the short answer to that question. Thank you. You're
S1: listening to The Land and the book from Moody Radio.
S1: I'm John Gager. Doctor Gerald Peterman welcomes your questions any
S1: time at the land and the book at Moody dot. Edu.
S1: That's the land and the book at Moody dot. Edu.
S1: Eric takes us to Second Chronicles 20, verse 12, where
S1: it says, we do not know what to do, but
S1: our eyes are on you. Well, how does a person
S1: keep their eyes on the Lord? Is this simply a
S1: matter of praying? What's the deal here?
S4: Well, this is a really good thing for us to
S4: think about. So let's go to Second Chronicles 20. In
S4: verse one, we find that a large army of Moabites
S4: and ammonites. Ammonites come to fight against Jehoshaphat, king of Judah,
S4: and the king prays, and the last part of the
S4: prayer he says, God, we are powerless before this vast
S4: number that comes to fight against us. We do not
S4: know what to do, but we look to you. So
S4: I take it that, as Eric said, looking to God
S4: entails praying to God. But looking to God, I think,
S4: also entails anticipating that he will help us because we
S4: need his help. I'm reminded of something very similar in
S4: Psalm 123. It says, behold, as the eyes of servants
S4: look to the hand of their master, as the eyes
S4: of the maid, servant to the hand of her mistress.
S4: So our eyes look to the Lord our God, till
S4: he has mercy on us. I think looking to the
S4: Lord means trusting him and anticipating his work on our behalf.
S1: You know this phrase, anticipating his help takes me to
S1: Ephesians chapter six, where we're given the list of the
S1: armor that we're supposed to be wearing. And one of
S1: the pieces, of course, is the helmet of Salvation. Doctor
S1: Fred Dickerson, who is the former chairman of the theology
S1: department here at Moody Bible Institute, said to me that
S1: that this is a lot more than just knowing you're saved.
S1: He's saying the helmet of salvation should cue us to
S1: expect his deliverance.
S4: Right, right, exactly. We have our mind set on anticipating
S4: his deliverance for us.
S1: That's great. That's a much broader picture. Thanks for bringing
S1: that to our attention. Let's go to Diana's question. Josiah's son, Jehoahaz,
S1: is his youngest son. According to first Chronicles 315, he
S1: became king when he was 23. Yet Zedekiah, who was
S1: older than Jehoahaz, became king 11.5 years after Jehoahaz. And
S1: he was 21 years old when he became king. The
S1: math doesn't work. Can you untie this for me?
S4: Well, the genealogies are really difficult. And I should say
S4: up front. I've pondered over this one and prayed over it,
S4: and I don't have a really good answer, but let
S4: me just mention a couple of things along the way.
S4: We can start with First Chronicles 315 and we find
S4: King Josiah's sons Johanan, Jehoiakim, Zedekiah, and Shallum. Now Shallum
S4: is also called Jehoahaz. Now to get details on when
S4: they reigned and how many years. We go to two
S4: Kings 23 and 24, and we find out. We put
S4: all those numbers together, and we find that there was
S4: reigns of 19.5 years. So indeed, it's rather strange. We
S4: don't have enough information to draw the conclusion. Why did
S4: this happen? But I'll just point out one thing that's
S4: a little bit odd. Here you have the youngest son
S4: who is the first to become king. That's a very
S4: strange thing. So I'm not quite sure how to put
S4: this together. It's a great question. Um, I haven't quite
S4: solved it yet.
S1: All right. And there are some questions that are just
S1: plain like that. We're not going to try and tell
S1: you we've got the answers if we don't. But your
S1: question is welcome when you email us at The Land
S1: and the book@moody.edu the land and the book@moody.edu, we'd love
S1: for you to visit our website. The land and the book.
S1: Org and when there, we'd really like it. If you
S1: checked out our podcast, it's a great way for you
S1: to listen to this program again at your own convenience,
S1: and it's a great tool for introducing us to your
S1: friends who maybe don't live anywhere near a radio station
S1: that carries the land in the book. So look for
S1: that podcast, use it yourself, and share it with a friend.
S1: Would you do that? Thank you for doing that at
S1: the land and the book.org. Well, it's Charlie Dyer's devotional
S1: and it's coming up next right here on the land
S1: and the book. Welcome back to the land and the book.
S1: I'm John Gager, and for a whole lot of Israel travelers,
S1: a visit through Hezekiah's tunnel is a truly memorable moment,
S1: I think. Speaking of memorable moments, Charlie, one of our
S1: more unusual interviews ever on this broadcast took place when
S1: Dan Anderson and I were walking through Hezekiah's tunnel with
S1: a guide and sloshing through that water. We just recorded
S1: a conversation, even in the dark at times. But your
S1: devotional is taking us there today as well. Is that true?
S5: It is exactly right. In fact, we're all going to
S5: head to Hezekiah's tunnel today.
S1: All right, so we all get to take that walk.
S1: I look forward to that after we pause for a
S1: testimony from a traveler who has these thoughts about their
S1: visit to Israel.
S6: This is Val from Texas, and it has been so
S6: enlightening to be here in the Holy Land to see
S6: just exactly how Jesus could have traveled from town to town,
S6: and been welcomed by the people who were hospitable to
S6: him and stay in their homes to see this just
S6: made it so real. And then to be on the
S6: Sea of Galilee and think of Jesus Just walking on
S6: that water out to a boat, and in the evenings
S6: we would have these quick winds that would come up,
S6: and you would definitely see a difference in how that
S6: could happen. On the Sea of Galilee when Jesus was
S6: there in the boat, asleep. So, so many things that
S6: I've read in the Bible for years started really making
S6: sense and coming together for me. And that's been thrilling.
S6: Just thrilling.
S1: Hezekiah's tunnel. Boy, it's a fascinating achievement. And Charlie, I'm
S1: looking forward to what you have to share with us.
S5: Well, thanks, John. This is week three. In my 11
S5: week series, I've called 11 inscriptions to the Bible. We're
S5: exploring written inscriptions uncovered by archaeologists that give us new
S5: insight into our understanding of the Bible. And this week,
S5: I hope you brought along your bathing suit, flip flops,
S5: and flashlight because our journey today is taking us through
S5: a 2700 year old tunnel carved under the city of Jerusalem,
S5: and our watery trek begins at the Gihon Spring, the
S5: original water supply for the city. Now watch your step
S5: getting into the water. It'll feel cold at first, but
S5: you'll quickly get used to it. The rectangular opening looks small,
S5: and there are a few places inside where the ceiling
S5: is a bit low and where the water will be
S5: mid thigh deep, but most of the way it won't
S5: be that high. Okay, it's time to turn on your flashlights.
S5: Here we go. Now, as we slosh our way through
S5: the tunnel, let me tell you a little bit about it.
S5: It snakes under the original city of David, and comes
S5: out in the Central Valley between the original part of
S5: the city and the larger hill to the west that
S5: became part of the city during the reign of King Hezekiah.
S5: In fact, the tunnel and a major wall placed around
S5: the western hill were part of Hezekiah's preparations to help
S5: fight off an attack against Jerusalem by the Assyrian army.
S5: But I'm getting ahead of myself. The purpose for the
S5: tunnel was to block off the original entrance to the
S5: Gihon Spring, and then to divert the water inside the
S5: city to the Pool of Siloam to provide an easily
S5: accessible water supply for the people of Jerusalem. The project
S5: was actually an amazing engineering feat. Two teams of workers
S5: started on opposite ends and snaked their way toward each other,
S5: ultimately digging a channel that was 1800 feet long. In fact,
S5: the compiler of Second Kings summarized the reign of Hezekiah
S5: this way. Now, the rest of the acts of Hezekiah
S5: and all his might, and how he made the pool
S5: and the conduit, and brought water into the city, are
S5: they not written in the book of the Chronicles of
S5: the Kings of Judah? And the Book of Second Chronicles
S5: repeats that theme. It was Hezekiah who stopped the upper
S5: outlet of the waters of Gijon and directed them to
S5: the west side of the city of David. This tunnel
S5: was an amazing engineering feat, built to provide security for
S5: the city. It was part of a series of elaborate
S5: preparations to protect Jerusalem from attack by Assyria. The same
S5: chapter of Second Chronicles records the other defensive measures taken
S5: by King Hezekiah and his military advisers. Now, when Hezekiah
S5: saw that Sennacherib had come and that he intended to
S5: make war on Jerusalem, he decided with his officers and
S5: his warriors to cut off the supply of water from
S5: the springs which were outside the city, and they helped him,
S5: and he took courage and rebuilt all the wall that
S5: had been broken down, and erected towers on it, and
S5: built another outside wall, and made weapons and shields in
S5: great number. You can see the checklist of military preparations.
S5: New pool ready? Check. Tunnel almost complete? Check. New walls
S5: and towers. Ready? Check. Bows, arrows, sling stone shields and swords.
S5: All prepared? Check. Once the tunnel was finished and its
S5: water flowing into the city, they would be ready. They
S5: were so excited when the two groups of workers finally
S5: connected with one another, that they chiseled a plaque into
S5: the tunnel recording the event. The water flowed from the
S5: source of the pool for 1200 cubits, and 100 cubits
S5: was the height of the stone over the head of
S5: the stonecutters. This plaque was discovered in the 1800s, cut
S5: from the rock and taken to the Istanbul Archaeology Museum,
S5: where it is still on display today. A replica has
S5: since been fashioned and placed inside the tunnel to show
S5: visitors where the original carving was discovered. The people of
S5: Judah had done everything possible to get ready for the
S5: coming battle with the Assyrians, or at least that's what
S5: they thought. But then the prophet Isaiah stood to address
S5: the crowd. He first took note of the arrival of
S5: the Assyrian forces with their chariots and horses. Your choices.
S5: Valleys are full of chariots, and the horsemen take up
S5: fixed positions at the gate. Isaiah then reminded them that
S5: a large number of Judah's cities and towns had already
S5: been captured by the Assyrians, and he removed the defenses
S5: of Judah. But Isaiah reserved his greatest rebuke for how
S5: the people had responded to the impending threat. In that day,
S5: you depended on the weapons of the house of the forest,
S5: and you saw that the breaches in the wall of
S5: the city of David were many, and you collected the
S5: waters of the lower pool. Then you counted the houses
S5: of Jerusalem, and you tore down houses to fortify the wall,
S5: and you made a reservoir between the two walls for
S5: the waters of the old pool. What exactly are you
S5: trusting in to protect yourself from the Assyrians, your weapons,
S5: your new walls, your updated water supply. Isaiah ends by
S5: focusing on the one item that people hadn't thought to strengthen.
S5: But you did not depend on him who made it.
S5: Nor did you take into consideration him who planned it
S5: long ago. They had been so busy focusing on how
S5: they could stop the Assyrians, they forgot to turn to
S5: the Lord to ask for his help. In fact, it
S5: wasn't until the Assyrians reached the outskirts of Jerusalem and
S5: handed their terms of surrender to Hezekiah that he finally
S5: went to the temple to seek God's assistance, and in response,
S5: God sent the angel of the Lord to kill 185,000
S5: Assyrian soldiers. The city was saved, but it wasn't because
S5: of their weapons or their walls or their new water supply. Well,
S5: we've reached the spot where the original inscription was carved
S5: into the wall of the tunnel. As you can see,
S5: they've placed this copy of the original, along with an
S5: explanatory plaque here on the wall. We're almost to the
S5: end of the tunnel, but as we get ready to
S5: climb out, dry off our feet and look over the
S5: I hiked Hezekiah Tunnel t shirts that are offered for sale.
S5: What spiritual lesson can we carry away with us from
S5: our time here in the tunnel? Looking at the reproduction
S5: of the inscription carved by Hezekiah's workers more than 2700
S5: years ago, perhaps the key lesson for us is the
S5: one raised by Isaiah in chapter 22. Everyone faces problems,
S5: difficulties and challenges in life, but what sets people apart
S5: is where they turn for answers to those problems. They
S5: can try to do it all by themselves. We just
S5: need more weapons, bigger walls, more dependable water. Or they
S5: can choose to seek out the God of the universe
S5: who has promised to never leave us nor forsake us.
S5: It took a while, but thankfully Hezekiah and the people
S5: of Jerusalem finally turned to God and discovered he didn't
S5: need their weapons, walls, or water to fight his battles.
S5: So how about you? What enemy are you facing today?
S5: You can choose to wear yourself out, hoping you can
S5: do enough to make it through the crisis. Or you
S5: can choose to turn your troubles over to the God
S5: of the universe and let him handle them. The choice
S5: is yours, but the plaque on the wall of Hezekiah's
S5: tunnel is a good reminder to let God resolve your
S5: problems and spare yourself a lot of pain, aggravation, and
S5: heartache in the process. And if you'd like to see
S5: photos of the original plaque in the Istanbul Museum or
S5: photos of the copy from inside Hezekiah's tunnel in Jerusalem. Well,
S5: just head over to the land and the book Facebook
S5: page where I've posted them, and you'll be able to
S5: see what they look like.
S1: Nothing like seeing that for yourself. Thank you for posting
S1: those photos, Charlie, for doing that research and bringing this
S1: story to life for us. Our website is The Land
S1: and the book org, and we're anxious for you to
S1: visit there because that's the gateway to everything we have
S1: to offer you, including our podcast. It's a great way
S1: to stay connected, to share us with friends who aren't
S1: able to listen to the broadcast on a traditional radio station,
S1: and a neat way for you to hear it all
S1: again yourself. Check out the podcast at the Land and
S1: the book.org. Looks like our time is just about up.
S1: I want to say thank you to you for listening
S1: to this station, for carrying the broadcast to our host,
S1: Charlie Dyer, and to our producer, Dan Anderson. I'm John Geiger.
S1: The land and the book is a production of Moody Radio,
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.