1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:08,160 S1: I have been looking forward to this program for several 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,920 S1: weeks and really longer than that, because I know today's 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,040 S1: topic is going to resonate with a lot of people. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,080 S1: My question on Facebook is this what do you do 5 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,440 S1: to cope when sleep won't come? What do you do 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,439 S1: with the restlessness you have at night when you fall asleep, 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,600 S1: and then you wake up and it's morning, but it's 8 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,599 S1: only 1 a.m. asking for a friend. Doctor Matt Rarer 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,400 S1: is going to join us straight ahead on the program. 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,360 S1: From the heart to the heart for the heart. If 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,920 S1: you or someone you know has problems with sleep or 12 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,559 S1: featured resource might be just the encouragement that you need. 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,519 S1: The title is When Sleep Won't Come. Help and Hope 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,280 S1: for Body and Soul. That's our topic. Let's jump in 15 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,080 S1: first with a thank you to Ryan McConaughey doing all 16 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,319 S1: things technical. Tricia's our producer, Lisa's helping out. Josh will 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,080 S1: be answering your calls. And thank you to those who 18 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,720 S1: are helping us celebrate Christmas in October. I chose for our. 19 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,920 S1: Thank you this month for anyone who supports us. Nancy 20 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:13,000 S1: DeMoss Wolgemuth 31 day Advent Devotional. Consider Jesus Meditations on 21 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,000 S1: the Person and Work of Christ. Most people and the 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:18,480 S1: culture don't have a problem with Jesus in the manger. 23 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:21,160 S1: He's cute and cuddly, and look at the animals in 24 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,720 S1: that pristine barn that he's in. And the manger. It's 25 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,679 S1: the grown up Jesus that people are more uncomfortable with 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,080 S1: for good reason. Jesus was on a mission only he 27 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,560 S1: could accomplish for you and me. He was born to 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,440 S1: die and then to live again for you and me. 29 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,440 S1: Let that captivate you with this thank you that we 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:43,800 S1: have for you right now. But hurry. Less than two 31 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,080 S1: weeks left on this offer, you can call or click 32 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:56,920 S1: through 86695FABRY or (866) 953-2279. Or you can go to the 33 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,930 S1: website if it's easier for you. Chris Fabry live.org. Scroll down. 34 00:02:01,930 --> 00:02:04,450 S1: You'll see the. Thank you. Right there. Become a one 35 00:02:04,490 --> 00:02:09,209 S1: time friend or a once a month giver called a 36 00:02:09,210 --> 00:02:13,609 S1: back fence partner right there. Chris Fabry live dot ORG. 37 00:02:13,770 --> 00:02:16,329 S1: And thank you for your support of the radio Backyard fence. 38 00:02:17,130 --> 00:02:21,610 S1: Doctor Matt Rarer is an emergency medicine physician in the 39 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:24,610 S1: San Francisco Bay area, and he also serves as a 40 00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:28,330 S1: pastor at North Creek Church. He helps people in times 41 00:02:28,330 --> 00:02:32,970 S1: of need where medicine, suffering, and faith intersect. He's the 42 00:02:32,970 --> 00:02:38,050 S1: author of a book titled Redeeming Memory How God Transforms 43 00:02:38,050 --> 00:02:41,770 S1: Memory From a Heavy Burden to a Blessed Hope, which 44 00:02:41,770 --> 00:02:44,010 S1: I think in a way, might go along with his 45 00:02:44,010 --> 00:02:48,130 S1: latest When Sleep Won't Come help and hope for Body 46 00:02:48,130 --> 00:02:52,010 S1: and Soul. He's a contributor to the Christian Counselors Medical 47 00:02:52,010 --> 00:02:56,169 S1: Desk reference. He and his wife, Kara, have three children. Matt, 48 00:02:56,210 --> 00:02:58,209 S1: it's great to meet you today. Thanks for coming on 49 00:02:58,210 --> 00:02:58,850 S1: the program. 50 00:03:00,130 --> 00:03:02,290 S2: Yeah, thanks for having me on, Chris. This is great. 51 00:03:02,570 --> 00:03:05,770 S1: What do you as an emergency medicine physician, what do 52 00:03:05,770 --> 00:03:10,130 S1: you treat? Do you treat everything? Trauma, heart attacks, everything? 53 00:03:11,770 --> 00:03:14,210 S2: Yeah, we're kind of. The E.R. is the gatekeeper for 54 00:03:14,210 --> 00:03:18,410 S2: the hospital. So anything that you are concerned about want 55 00:03:18,410 --> 00:03:21,650 S2: to be seen for an emergency? A trauma would start 56 00:03:21,650 --> 00:03:25,890 S2: in the emergency room. Any type of pain, we see 57 00:03:25,889 --> 00:03:28,210 S2: all of it. So, yeah, I have a very broad 58 00:03:28,250 --> 00:03:32,290 S2: base of knowledge and then involve a lot of specialists 59 00:03:32,290 --> 00:03:33,290 S2: as needed to help. 60 00:03:33,570 --> 00:03:35,170 S1: Is this what you wanted to do when you were 61 00:03:35,170 --> 00:03:38,330 S1: a kid? I want to be an emergency medicine physician. 62 00:03:40,130 --> 00:03:42,370 S2: No, I think this really started when I was in 63 00:03:42,370 --> 00:03:46,930 S2: high school. And after a missions trip I had done overseas, 64 00:03:46,930 --> 00:03:50,930 S2: I got exposed to medicine in a third world country 65 00:03:51,210 --> 00:03:53,850 S2: where there was nobody able to help. And that's kind 66 00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:57,290 S2: of what got me started on the journey. And emergency 67 00:03:57,290 --> 00:04:00,330 S2: medicine just gave me a, I thought a skill set 68 00:04:00,330 --> 00:04:02,770 S2: I could really transfer to a bunch of different contexts. 69 00:04:02,810 --> 00:04:04,650 S2: So that's kind of how I ended up laying in there. 70 00:04:04,690 --> 00:04:07,610 S1: Well, it's kind of like what a pastor is doing too. 71 00:04:07,650 --> 00:04:10,850 S1: I mean, not every moment of every day, but you're 72 00:04:10,850 --> 00:04:15,690 S1: treating people, you're giving triage and trauma on the soul level, right? 73 00:04:17,010 --> 00:04:20,770 S2: There is a lot of, I think, overlap between the 74 00:04:20,770 --> 00:04:24,610 S2: two with medicine and then care for the soul because 75 00:04:25,529 --> 00:04:30,809 S2: you're listening, asking questions, you are triaging, you're helping think 76 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:34,770 S2: through what's the best ways that we can provide care 77 00:04:34,770 --> 00:04:36,929 S2: for somebody. And now it moves from the body into 78 00:04:36,930 --> 00:04:39,810 S2: the soul. So I have seen a lot of overlap 79 00:04:39,810 --> 00:04:42,289 S2: and I think really sweet for a Christian to be 80 00:04:42,290 --> 00:04:44,930 S2: able to be in medicine is that overlap that you 81 00:04:44,930 --> 00:04:48,210 S2: see seeing the person as a whole person, body and soul. 82 00:04:48,370 --> 00:04:51,250 S1: Yeah. All right. Let's talk about sleep. Did this topic 83 00:04:51,290 --> 00:04:53,810 S1: choose you or did you choose the topic? 84 00:04:55,410 --> 00:04:59,409 S2: Probably a little of both because, uh, I one of 85 00:04:59,410 --> 00:05:01,850 S2: the reasons I started thinking about this was because I 86 00:05:01,850 --> 00:05:05,089 S2: was not sleeping well. Some of that may be attributed 87 00:05:05,089 --> 00:05:08,890 S2: to shift work in the emergency room. Others just the 88 00:05:08,890 --> 00:05:10,530 S2: things that were going through my head and how I 89 00:05:10,529 --> 00:05:12,890 S2: was processing. And so there was that. And then I 90 00:05:12,890 --> 00:05:16,530 S2: was seeing patients in the ER where they were coming 91 00:05:16,529 --> 00:05:20,770 S2: in sometimes in distress because they couldn't sleep and sometimes 92 00:05:20,770 --> 00:05:24,100 S2: in extreme situations, not sleeping at all for like 3 93 00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:27,130 S2: or 4 days in a row. And then meanwhile, in 94 00:05:27,130 --> 00:05:30,369 S2: the church and counseling context, I was finding that sleep 95 00:05:30,370 --> 00:05:35,570 S2: was giving a window into somebody's soul because you start asking, well, 96 00:05:35,610 --> 00:05:38,250 S2: what is keeping you up at night? What's going through 97 00:05:38,290 --> 00:05:41,650 S2: your mind? And all of a sudden you're getting into 98 00:05:41,690 --> 00:05:44,530 S2: another layer of somebody's life very quickly. 99 00:05:44,850 --> 00:05:50,210 S1: Right? Isn't that part of the problem, the feeling that, uh, 100 00:05:50,210 --> 00:05:55,580 S1: outside of medication. This is out of my control or 101 00:05:55,620 --> 00:05:57,539 S1: there are things that I can do. I can make 102 00:05:57,540 --> 00:06:01,300 S1: the room cooler. I can, you know, keep the devices away, 103 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:05,780 S1: that kind of thing. But in a great extent, to 104 00:06:05,820 --> 00:06:10,059 S1: a great extent, I don't have control of this. And 105 00:06:10,060 --> 00:06:12,099 S1: that bugs me. Is that true? 106 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:18,020 S2: Oh, I think if somebody has recognized their lack of 107 00:06:18,020 --> 00:06:21,300 S2: control in sleep, that's actually a huge hurdle for many 108 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:24,540 S2: of us. We try to do everything we can to 109 00:06:25,180 --> 00:06:27,860 S2: get ourselves into a place, a condition that we're going 110 00:06:27,860 --> 00:06:29,940 S2: to be able to fall asleep. And one thing that 111 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:32,539 S2: I've learned about sleep is there's a lot of surrender 112 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:36,740 S2: needed there because you can't really buy sleep, you can't 113 00:06:36,740 --> 00:06:39,300 S2: make it happen. It really is a gift from the Lord. 114 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:42,940 S2: And so that mentality or mindset that I'm not in 115 00:06:42,940 --> 00:06:46,859 S2: control here is actually really a big step in somebody 116 00:06:46,860 --> 00:06:51,140 S2: addressing their sleep problems on the spiritual side, I think. 117 00:06:51,940 --> 00:06:53,380 S2: But that's also why it's frustrating. 118 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:57,060 S1: Exactly. And that and that the God quotient, then, you know, 119 00:06:57,100 --> 00:06:59,540 S1: if he cares about me and he made me to 120 00:06:59,580 --> 00:07:04,860 S1: sleep and I'm not sleeping, why hasn't why hasn't he 121 00:07:04,900 --> 00:07:08,099 S1: shown up and given me that gift that you're talking about? 122 00:07:09,900 --> 00:07:13,100 S2: Yeah. There's a distinguishment I try to make in the book. 123 00:07:13,140 --> 00:07:15,580 S2: As I was walking through this, one of the things 124 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:18,340 S2: that really came to the surface for me. One, the 125 00:07:18,340 --> 00:07:20,500 S2: Bible talks a lot about sleep. Like you actually see 126 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:23,060 S2: it much more than you realize when you start thinking 127 00:07:23,060 --> 00:07:26,300 S2: about it and focusing on it in a theology of sleep. 128 00:07:26,740 --> 00:07:32,500 S2: But one of the facets that's really amazing about sleep 129 00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:35,100 S2: when you're trying to work through the process of what 130 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,860 S2: is keeping me up, what is sleep is realizing it's 131 00:07:38,860 --> 00:07:42,020 S2: a gift, but it's not a promise. Like, God made 132 00:07:42,020 --> 00:07:44,180 S2: it this way for you. There's a lot of benefits 133 00:07:44,180 --> 00:07:46,660 S2: we might talk about today of why it's good to 134 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:49,260 S2: sleep And as a dependent creature. Why he made you 135 00:07:49,260 --> 00:07:53,340 S2: that way. The promise, though, is actually that you will rest. 136 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:56,460 S2: So that's what God promises. So when you can't sleep, 137 00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:59,140 S2: part of the way that I frame this book is 138 00:07:59,140 --> 00:08:01,300 S2: to how to rest. Then when you can't sleep, how 139 00:08:01,300 --> 00:08:04,179 S2: to rest in the promises that God has given when 140 00:08:04,220 --> 00:08:07,340 S2: sleep won't come. And that's a distinguishment that's subtle, but 141 00:08:07,340 --> 00:08:09,900 S2: I think important as we walk through the topic. 142 00:08:10,380 --> 00:08:12,700 S1: Is it true? Because I've heard people say, well, nobody, 143 00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:16,740 S1: nobody's died from not getting sleep. Is that true? 144 00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:23,220 S2: So it's really hard to prove that the I actually 145 00:08:23,220 --> 00:08:26,460 S2: addressed this in my book, that there were studies done 146 00:08:26,460 --> 00:08:29,220 S2: prior to a lot of the current laws of animal 147 00:08:29,220 --> 00:08:33,100 S2: cruelty out there on rats, trying to keep rats up 148 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:34,860 S2: as long as you could and seeing what happened. It 149 00:08:34,860 --> 00:08:39,540 S2: turns out they would die days into being sleepless. They 150 00:08:39,540 --> 00:08:41,900 S2: would do autopsies on rats and they could not find 151 00:08:41,900 --> 00:08:44,140 S2: an identifiable cause. It's not like there was a heart 152 00:08:44,140 --> 00:08:48,670 S2: attack or a stroke associated with sleeplessness, but it did 153 00:08:48,670 --> 00:08:52,270 S2: seem to lead to. Eventually the rats dying. And so 154 00:08:52,270 --> 00:08:54,990 S2: with human beings. Thankfully, we haven't been that cruel to 155 00:08:55,030 --> 00:08:57,829 S2: be able to know if that actually were to occur. 156 00:08:58,270 --> 00:09:02,110 S2: But it looks like there's enough health benefits associated with it, 157 00:09:02,110 --> 00:09:06,150 S2: and the need for renewal and refreshment at night on 158 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:09,070 S2: a number of metabolic levels that eventually bad things do 159 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:11,670 S2: definitely happen. Even if you can't prove you die, it 160 00:09:11,670 --> 00:09:13,150 S2: sure looks like you probably would. 161 00:09:13,510 --> 00:09:15,950 S1: Well, and if yeah, and you and you want to, 162 00:09:15,990 --> 00:09:18,550 S1: because you can't, you can't get to sleep and and 163 00:09:18,550 --> 00:09:22,030 S1: you're so frustrating. And I have I told you before 164 00:09:22,030 --> 00:09:25,590 S1: the break, before the program started that there's a listener 165 00:09:25,590 --> 00:09:29,150 S1: who will email me periodically and just say, would you 166 00:09:29,150 --> 00:09:33,670 S1: pray for me, I cannot sleep. And she's identified a 167 00:09:33,710 --> 00:09:36,350 S1: lot of the things in there, but it's just you 168 00:09:36,390 --> 00:09:39,950 S1: can tell she's just this just frustrated with where she 169 00:09:39,950 --> 00:09:44,910 S1: is and she wants sleep to come and it won't. 170 00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:47,990 S1: And that's why when I saw the title of your book, 171 00:09:47,990 --> 00:09:51,430 S1: When Sleep Won't Come help and Hope for Body and Soul, 172 00:09:51,429 --> 00:09:54,989 S1: I said, we've got to get Doctor Matt rarer on 173 00:09:54,990 --> 00:10:01,750 S1: REHRER is his last name. We have the book length@chris.org. 174 00:10:01,790 --> 00:10:04,110 S1: I'm going to open the phone lines. Is this you? 175 00:10:04,110 --> 00:10:08,230 S1: Do you resonate with this sleep topic? Love to hear 176 00:10:08,230 --> 00:10:17,870 S1: from you. Eight. 775483675. Before we get back to the program, 177 00:10:17,870 --> 00:10:21,750 S1: a quick note for you. This segment includes a song 178 00:10:21,750 --> 00:10:27,270 S1: that we can't play for copyright restrictions. Sorry about that 179 00:10:27,270 --> 00:10:32,309 S1: and thank you for understanding. You can hear it. You 180 00:10:32,309 --> 00:10:35,670 S1: can hear the longing. You can hear the hope. I'm. 181 00:10:35,710 --> 00:10:38,550 S1: I'm trying to get to sleep. I want to pass 182 00:10:38,550 --> 00:10:43,870 S1: under sleep's dark and silent gate. and I cannot get there. 183 00:10:44,390 --> 00:10:47,790 S1: And if you know anything about the the lyricist there, 184 00:10:47,790 --> 00:10:54,070 S1: Jackson Browne, he wrote that shortly after his own, his 185 00:10:54,110 --> 00:10:57,510 S1: wife died and he was dealing with that loss. He 186 00:10:57,510 --> 00:11:00,350 S1: was dealing with the future, with the past. It kind 187 00:11:00,390 --> 00:11:04,990 S1: of goes back to Matt's other book, Redeeming Memory. Doctor 188 00:11:04,990 --> 00:11:12,390 S1: Matt Rarer, REHREER. Emergency medicine physician and a pastor in 189 00:11:12,429 --> 00:11:15,510 S1: California is joining us today. His book is When Sleep 190 00:11:15,510 --> 00:11:19,110 S1: Won't Come help and Hope for Body and Soul. Matt, 191 00:11:19,110 --> 00:11:21,270 S1: do you resonate with those lyrics at all? 192 00:11:22,910 --> 00:11:27,110 S2: Yes. I think for a lot of people, sometimes circumstances 193 00:11:27,110 --> 00:11:29,830 S2: in their life, like, um, the lyrics there that were 194 00:11:29,830 --> 00:11:33,550 S2: generated from loss, that's, that can definitely be a reason 195 00:11:33,550 --> 00:11:38,870 S2: that we're up late at night processing, thinking through the 196 00:11:38,870 --> 00:11:43,310 S2: ramifications Of of a loss and grief, both of who 197 00:11:43,350 --> 00:11:45,670 S2: you're missing and then how it applies to your own life. 198 00:11:46,429 --> 00:11:51,430 S2: And I definitely have found that when people are sleeping, 199 00:11:51,429 --> 00:11:52,790 S2: they're like, why is it that I could be up 200 00:11:52,790 --> 00:11:55,110 S2: all day and everything seems fine? I lay down at night. 201 00:11:55,110 --> 00:11:59,189 S2: It's like the darkness is a megaphone for my problems. 202 00:11:59,190 --> 00:12:02,230 S2: And it's because now it's quiet and you're alone with 203 00:12:02,230 --> 00:12:06,589 S2: your thoughts. And I think things like these circumstances stresses 204 00:12:06,590 --> 00:12:08,070 S2: that we go through. All of a sudden they're right 205 00:12:08,070 --> 00:12:10,950 S2: in front of you, um, needing to be dealt with 206 00:12:10,950 --> 00:12:13,829 S2: both processing the day before and then thinking about the day, 207 00:12:13,870 --> 00:12:17,430 S2: the day coming up the next day. So yeah, I definitely, 208 00:12:17,670 --> 00:12:20,510 S2: I definitely resonate with where the, where the lyrics are 209 00:12:20,510 --> 00:12:21,270 S2: coming from there. 210 00:12:21,429 --> 00:12:24,790 S1: My daughter got married a few months ago, and they 211 00:12:24,830 --> 00:12:28,550 S1: are in the process of purchasing their first home, which is, 212 00:12:28,590 --> 00:12:32,310 S1: you know, a really big, bigger struggle than I was 213 00:12:32,309 --> 00:12:35,230 S1: thinking about the same thing. But I told them both 214 00:12:35,710 --> 00:12:39,840 S1: when when we bought the first house, it was. I 215 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:45,439 S1: did not sleep a wink because of the financial burden. 216 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,040 S1: And are we going to be able to make it? 217 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,600 S1: And the interest rate was 10.5% back then too. But 218 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,920 S1: it was all these things. But it's the same thing 219 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,040 S1: now as I'm looking at them, it's like, how are 220 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,800 S1: we going to make this happen? And so that's why 221 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,400 S1: I think when you say there are theological reasons for 222 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,160 S1: this and the stirring inside, it could be a financial 223 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:10,839 S1: thing or deep loss or a prospect, you know, what's 224 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,800 S1: the future going to be when that starts to spin 225 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:19,000 S1: in your head, it can really prevent you from sleeping. 226 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,480 S1: Or do even worse, you fall asleep and then you 227 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,520 S1: wake up and you can't get back, right? 228 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:28,280 S2: Yeah. And for many people, I think what happens is 229 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,320 S2: you get these, this, this megaphone at night that reminds 230 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,360 S2: you of all the things that are going on during 231 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:38,480 S2: the day and the strains and, tension of your life. 232 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,000 S2: And then we kind of don't sleep very well. And 233 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,000 S2: then we just keep moving forward. One thing I do 234 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,440 S2: encourage people is to actually don't ignore those things. They're 235 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,559 S2: actually giving you maybe the clearest window of the deeper 236 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,880 S2: thoughts that you're having. And so instead of just going like, well, 237 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,439 S2: I didn't sleep very well last night, go like actually, okay, 238 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,800 S2: what was keeping me up again? Like I need to 239 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:04,880 S2: in the morning, during the afternoon, whatever's the best be 240 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,200 S2: able to process and then give those things to the 241 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,280 S2: Lord because they're not going to go away. They're going 242 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,960 S2: to keep coming up. And so it's an opportunity for 243 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:17,040 S2: identifying those areas and then seeking the Lord and growing 244 00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:19,120 S2: in those things. And I think many of us, when 245 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,880 S2: we're not sleeping well, we don't think well, like generally 246 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,600 S2: your mind is, is somewhat discombobulated at night. And so 247 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,440 S2: it's helpful to then make a note of what you're 248 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,720 S2: actually dealing with and what's what's keeping you up. 249 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,920 S1: The first part of the book is an excellent treatise 250 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:42,120 S1: on why sleep is important, and that almost feels like 251 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,760 S1: a double edged sword. It's like I already know it's important. 252 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,720 S1: Give me the answer. Fix me. You know, this kind 253 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,480 S1: of thing. But but part of the what you're talking 254 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,080 S1: about there is that this is the way that God 255 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:00,160 S1: has designed us, has engineered us, that we need this. 256 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,200 S1: It's part of our humanity. Right? 257 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,239 S2: Yeah. I wrote the book, the chapter on the benefits 258 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,680 S2: of sleep with a little bit of trepidation, knowing that 259 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,080 S2: most people picking this up are reading it because they 260 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,040 S2: can't sleep, and then they're going, well, thanks insult to injury, 261 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,960 S2: you're telling me all the benefits. But the reason is twofold. One, 262 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,200 S2: it is to unveil or unwrap the gift that God's 263 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,480 S2: given and go like this. This gift is more than 264 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:28,560 S2: just your sleeping. There's there's a lot of activity that 265 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,840 S2: God does at night to refresh, restore your body and 266 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:36,890 S2: for you as well, your mind. But then also for 267 00:15:36,890 --> 00:15:39,610 S2: those of us who are tempted to be self-sufficient and 268 00:15:39,610 --> 00:15:41,890 S2: think we don't need sleep, or it's the first thing 269 00:15:41,890 --> 00:15:45,010 S2: that we give away when we get busy because it's 270 00:15:45,010 --> 00:15:48,290 S2: just a commodity to be tossed away. It is good 271 00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:52,530 S2: to also have, I think, a check on ourselves to go. Actually, 272 00:15:52,570 --> 00:15:57,450 S2: God made you this way for a reason. He gave you, um, 273 00:15:57,610 --> 00:16:01,090 S2: this sleep to make you dependent on him, rely on him. 274 00:16:01,090 --> 00:16:04,130 S2: And it has a lot of benefits when you surrender 275 00:16:04,450 --> 00:16:08,290 S2: that to him. And so yeah, unfortunately, when people aren't 276 00:16:08,290 --> 00:16:11,090 S2: sleeping well, I had somebody just tell me recently that 277 00:16:11,090 --> 00:16:13,010 S2: was a tough chapter for me, but I pushed through 278 00:16:13,010 --> 00:16:16,090 S2: and it was worth the push through because you kind 279 00:16:16,130 --> 00:16:19,330 S2: of helped me then deal with my sorrow over the 280 00:16:19,330 --> 00:16:22,770 S2: blessing of losing those blessings of sleep. Um, so yeah, 281 00:16:22,770 --> 00:16:24,930 S2: that's just, I think something to be aware of. 282 00:16:24,970 --> 00:16:28,770 S1: Yeah. I got a lot of comments on Facebook and 283 00:16:28,770 --> 00:16:30,330 S1: our phone line is open if you want to talk 284 00:16:30,330 --> 00:16:35,370 S1: with Doctor rarer REHRER. I'm saying that correctly, right? I 285 00:16:35,410 --> 00:16:36,650 S1: didn't check beforehand. 286 00:16:37,450 --> 00:16:38,570 S2: Yes. That's great. 287 00:16:38,610 --> 00:16:42,370 S1: Okay. All right. Good enough. Good enough for the doc. Uh, 288 00:16:42,370 --> 00:16:44,050 S1: if you want to call and talk with him. If 289 00:16:44,050 --> 00:16:47,050 S1: there's a sleep issue that you have, or maybe somebody 290 00:16:47,050 --> 00:16:50,210 S1: that you love is going through this. That's the other thing. 291 00:16:50,210 --> 00:16:52,930 S1: If you have a spouse or you have a child 292 00:16:52,930 --> 00:16:55,210 S1: who's going through this, how do you help them? Here's 293 00:16:55,210 --> 00:17:02,570 S1: the number (877) 548-3675. The book is when sleep won't come. 294 00:17:02,770 --> 00:17:08,090 S1: Featured resource@kris.org. And Pam's in Florida. Hi, Pam. Go right ahead. 295 00:17:08,730 --> 00:17:14,090 S3: Hi. Yes. Um, I've kind of always had a problem with, uh, 296 00:17:14,490 --> 00:17:19,010 S3: going to sleep as I was a single mom and 297 00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:24,370 S3: had two boys, uh, retired nurse, and also, uh, have 298 00:17:24,369 --> 00:17:27,330 S3: a business on the side. Um, I just have a 299 00:17:27,330 --> 00:17:29,770 S3: very busy mind, and it seems like when I go 300 00:17:29,770 --> 00:17:32,970 S3: to bed is when I start putting things together. Well, 301 00:17:32,970 --> 00:17:34,250 S3: you have to do this. You have to do that. 302 00:17:34,250 --> 00:17:35,650 S3: You have to do this, you have to do that. 303 00:17:35,650 --> 00:17:39,649 S3: So shutting it off was not the easiest thing. But 304 00:17:39,650 --> 00:17:42,810 S3: then when I do get some good sleep, it feels 305 00:17:42,810 --> 00:17:45,530 S3: really good and you're refreshed and able to do a lot. 306 00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:49,130 S3: But um, I am retired now. My my sons are 307 00:17:49,130 --> 00:17:52,290 S3: grown up, but I do still take a low dose 308 00:17:52,369 --> 00:17:59,010 S3: of medication to just help me shut it off. Um, 309 00:17:59,130 --> 00:18:01,570 S3: so yeah, and I know I really have to get 310 00:18:01,570 --> 00:18:04,530 S3: my sleep or I'm not, you know, fit. 311 00:18:04,850 --> 00:18:07,850 S1: You bring up a really good point, Pam. That and that. 312 00:18:07,850 --> 00:18:08,090 S3: Is. 313 00:18:08,450 --> 00:18:12,929 S1: Why, why does that happen? It's like, right when I'm going, 314 00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:15,970 S1: right when I'm settling down, right when I'm resting, it 315 00:18:15,970 --> 00:18:20,169 S1: feels like these thoughts come and then spin and spur 316 00:18:20,210 --> 00:18:22,410 S1: me on to, you know, want to write something down 317 00:18:22,410 --> 00:18:24,929 S1: and get that done. And I can't sleep because I 318 00:18:24,970 --> 00:18:27,570 S1: got to do this tomorrow and get keyed up. Matt, 319 00:18:27,609 --> 00:18:28,780 S1: what do you say about that? 320 00:18:30,540 --> 00:18:32,899 S2: Yeah, I think a lot of us probably relate to you, Pam. 321 00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:36,619 S2: You were doing a lot. A nurse, single mom running 322 00:18:36,619 --> 00:18:38,619 S2: a small business. I'm like, of course you've got a 323 00:18:38,660 --> 00:18:42,620 S2: lot of things going through your mind. And, uh, when 324 00:18:42,619 --> 00:18:44,899 S2: I think about that, like I was saying, I think 325 00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:46,659 S2: a lot of times when you lay down at night, 326 00:18:46,660 --> 00:18:49,220 S2: it's you're processing the day and also thinking ahead to 327 00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:52,660 S2: the next. And one thing I found personally to help 328 00:18:52,660 --> 00:18:56,220 S2: me is to have a small notepad or something next 329 00:18:56,220 --> 00:18:59,940 S2: to my bed or something where if something pops into 330 00:18:59,980 --> 00:19:02,420 S2: my head that I'm like, I'm, I need to do 331 00:19:02,420 --> 00:19:11,980 S2: this tomorrow. There's anxiety associated with forgetfulness. Like, in other words, 332 00:19:11,980 --> 00:19:14,140 S2: I don't want to forget this thing that I know 333 00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:17,380 S2: I need to do tomorrow. And so I find it 334 00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:19,820 S2: helpful to just write those things down and almost have 335 00:19:19,820 --> 00:19:23,820 S2: a little time before bed, where I'm just processing what 336 00:19:23,820 --> 00:19:25,900 S2: just happened and try to get that on paper, because 337 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:29,060 S2: then I'm not up wearing. I'm going to forget the 338 00:19:29,060 --> 00:19:31,340 S2: the detail that maybe just came to mind. 339 00:19:32,220 --> 00:19:33,300 S1: I do the same thing with the. 340 00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:36,379 S2: That's helpful for people listening. I found that personally to 341 00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:38,500 S2: be a helpful practice mat. 342 00:19:38,660 --> 00:19:40,660 S1: I do that with a program. I have a, you know, 343 00:19:40,700 --> 00:19:42,780 S1: a three by five car or whatever in front of 344 00:19:42,780 --> 00:19:45,860 S1: me because you'll say something, I'll think of something. If 345 00:19:45,859 --> 00:19:48,500 S1: I don't write it down, then I'll, you know, I'm afraid. 346 00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:51,139 S1: And it's the fear, the fear that I'm going to forget. 347 00:19:51,380 --> 00:19:53,660 S1: And I read a lot of books on writing. And 348 00:19:53,660 --> 00:19:55,859 S1: Stephen King said, you know, they asked him, you know, 349 00:19:55,900 --> 00:19:57,780 S1: when you get an idea in the middle of the night, 350 00:19:57,820 --> 00:20:01,180 S1: he said, I never write those down. Because if it's 351 00:20:01,180 --> 00:20:04,900 S1: a good enough idea in the morning, I'll remember. I'll 352 00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:07,420 S1: remember it if it's important for me to remember. And 353 00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:11,100 S1: so for him, he said, I don't spend my wheels 354 00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:13,740 S1: with ideas that I get when I wake up at night. 355 00:20:13,740 --> 00:20:17,220 S1: It's like, okay, so but but he's doing the same thing. 356 00:20:17,220 --> 00:20:21,540 S1: He's letting himself off the hook of remembering this thing 357 00:20:21,540 --> 00:20:24,900 S1: because if it really is important, it's going to come back. It's, 358 00:20:25,260 --> 00:20:32,020 S1: the same process that you're talking about, isn't it? Yeah, 359 00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:37,300 S1: I think we I think I'm not hearing him right. Ryan. Okay. 360 00:20:37,340 --> 00:20:40,500 S1: All right. So we're going to get Matt back. Well, 361 00:20:40,540 --> 00:20:44,660 S1: maybe he fell asleep. You know, maybe he's nodded off there. Uh, Pam. 362 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:46,820 S1: God bless you, friend. Thanks for calling us. If you 363 00:20:46,820 --> 00:20:52,220 S1: go to the website chris.org, when sleep Won't Come is 364 00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:56,939 S1: our featured resource help and Hope for Body and Soul. Uh, 365 00:20:56,940 --> 00:21:00,980 S1: Matt Rarer is an emergency medicine physician in the San 366 00:21:00,980 --> 00:21:05,300 S1: Francisco Bay area, and he also serves as a pastor 367 00:21:05,580 --> 00:21:08,380 S1: at North Creek Church there. If you want to find 368 00:21:08,380 --> 00:21:11,260 S1: out more about him and that other book that he wrote, 369 00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:13,900 S1: I was looking at that just before the program today. 370 00:21:14,060 --> 00:21:19,139 S1: I think they go together. Redeeming memory, how God transforms 371 00:21:19,140 --> 00:21:24,220 S1: memory from a heavy burden to a blessed hope. Is 372 00:21:24,220 --> 00:21:27,859 S1: this something that you're dealing with? The whole idea of sleep, 373 00:21:27,859 --> 00:21:34,140 S1: and I see more of you who are calling in here. (877) 548-3675. 374 00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:42,820 S1: Our number (877) 548-3675. Uh, Pam mentioned medication and I want 375 00:21:42,859 --> 00:21:49,020 S1: to ask Doctor Rehrer about this because medication can do, 376 00:21:49,220 --> 00:21:52,260 S1: you know, can be a really, really big help. But 377 00:21:52,260 --> 00:21:57,180 S1: then if you become well Matt is back. Matt talk 378 00:21:57,220 --> 00:22:01,500 S1: about the medication angle of this. If you are use 379 00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:06,500 S1: medication to fall asleep. It's almost a double edged sword. 380 00:22:06,500 --> 00:22:10,060 S1: You got to keep using it in order to stay 381 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,980 S1: asleep and stay sleeping. Talk about that. 382 00:22:14,940 --> 00:22:17,979 S2: Yeah, it can become a double edged sword because I 383 00:22:17,980 --> 00:22:21,950 S2: think for many people, their doctor will prescribe that to 384 00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:26,670 S2: them and they start taking the medication, maybe not having 385 00:22:26,710 --> 00:22:30,350 S2: fully understood even side effects or the potential to become 386 00:22:30,350 --> 00:22:32,990 S2: more dependent on it or need increased doses. And so 387 00:22:33,030 --> 00:22:36,310 S2: I think for, um, folks, when I write about this 388 00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:39,109 S2: in the book, it doesn't say, I'm not saying don't 389 00:22:39,109 --> 00:22:43,270 S2: ever take medicine. I think there's definitely times that are needed, 390 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:46,630 S2: but just do it with eyes wide open, understanding kind 391 00:22:46,630 --> 00:22:50,550 S2: of the, the risks that happen when we take medication 392 00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:54,310 S2: and understand that for most of the guidelines, they really 393 00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:56,670 S2: are suggesting that you're on it for only a short 394 00:22:56,670 --> 00:22:59,230 S2: period of time, if possible. I know that some people 395 00:22:59,230 --> 00:23:02,110 S2: get into a spot where that's just not possible, but 396 00:23:02,109 --> 00:23:06,149 S2: that's the recommendations, um, for there. And so hopefully that's 397 00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:10,389 S2: helpful just in thinking through that really important, but also 398 00:23:10,750 --> 00:23:13,870 S2: delicate conversation of sleep medication. Right. 399 00:23:14,150 --> 00:23:18,630 S1: Right. Yeah. Um, and I mentioned to you before the program, 400 00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:23,190 S1: it's like I have always and there's scriptural reasons for this, 401 00:23:23,230 --> 00:23:26,750 S1: you know, thinking about older folks, having a little bit 402 00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:30,830 S1: more difficult time sleeping or falling asleep or getting up 403 00:23:30,830 --> 00:23:33,350 S1: in the middle of the night or waking early in 404 00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:39,109 S1: the morning. Um, but that's not true. This hits all ages, 405 00:23:39,109 --> 00:23:39,750 S1: doesn't it? 406 00:23:41,070 --> 00:23:44,109 S2: Yes. I, a lot of people do struggle to sleep. 407 00:23:44,109 --> 00:23:47,990 S2: You can definitely have challenges with aging because your body 408 00:23:47,990 --> 00:23:51,710 S2: changes even in your circadian rhythm and your sleep cycles. 409 00:23:51,710 --> 00:23:56,470 S2: They adjust and change as you age. You lose that, uh, 410 00:23:56,510 --> 00:24:00,230 S2: deep non-REM stage that starts to go away. That's where 411 00:24:00,230 --> 00:24:03,750 S2: all the learning and memory happens, which is unfortunate. That 412 00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:07,030 S2: decreases as you age. But then also, um, there's more 413 00:24:07,030 --> 00:24:10,109 S2: disruptors as you age. A lot of times facts of 414 00:24:10,109 --> 00:24:13,109 S2: life biologically, you have to get up to use the 415 00:24:13,109 --> 00:24:16,190 S2: restroom more than once at night. And other things that 416 00:24:16,190 --> 00:24:20,470 S2: can affect that quality of sleep that disrupts your sleep happens. 417 00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:24,590 S2: But there's definitely an issue for many adults. And even 418 00:24:24,590 --> 00:24:27,990 S2: going into teenage years of sleeping well, and sometimes even 419 00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:31,030 S2: for kids too. There's definitely some things that can cause 420 00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:34,710 S2: problems there. So this is a pretty much everybody could 421 00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:37,230 S2: be susceptible to having trouble sleeping. 422 00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:40,350 S1: Especially in our technological world where people are going to 423 00:24:40,350 --> 00:24:44,230 S1: sleep with their phones and other devices right next to them. 424 00:24:44,710 --> 00:24:46,949 S1: And I want to talk with you about that. I 425 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:49,670 S1: also want to talk about how do you know when 426 00:24:49,670 --> 00:24:53,790 S1: you need to go to a medical professional and deal 427 00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:56,869 S1: with some of these things? When it crosses a line 428 00:24:56,869 --> 00:24:59,390 S1: where it's like, I need to get somebody else in 429 00:24:59,390 --> 00:25:03,710 S1: on this. Doctor Matt Rarer is an emergency medicine physician 430 00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:06,629 S1: in the San Francisco Bay area, and he's a pastor there. 431 00:25:06,670 --> 00:25:10,510 S1: His latest book is When Sleep Won't Come Help and 432 00:25:10,510 --> 00:25:13,830 S1: Hope for Body and Soul. It's our featured resource today. 433 00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:16,190 S1: I'm so glad he's on the program. And we're going 434 00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:18,880 S1: to take your calls if you're on the line. Hang on. 435 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,880 S1: If you want to ask a question about sleep, you're 436 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:29,360 S1: having a struggle. (877) 548-3675. And do go to the website 437 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:47,000 S1: chris.org more straight ahead on Moody Radio. I knew this 438 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,320 S1: would hit a nerve because it's kind of underneath the surface, 439 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,240 S1: the silent struggle that many people are having when sleep 440 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,240 S1: won't come. What do you do? Doctor Matt Rare is 441 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,480 S1: with us today. REHRE are our featured resource. Is that 442 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,879 S1: book which is linked@chris.org. Back to your calls. But first 443 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,000 S1: here's an email from Mark Doctor Rarer. He says here's 444 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,800 S1: three suggestions. One. No caffeine or chocolate after 11 a.m.. 445 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:22,480 S1: Two we took the TV out of the bedroom and. Three. 446 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,800 S1: Guard your mind from unwelcome imagery like gruesome images from 447 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,399 S1: crime shows. What do you think about that? 448 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,080 S2: Yeah, I think Mark is hitting on some key aspects 449 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,040 S2: of just being wise, particularly with your environment. He's mentioned 450 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,520 S2: a couple of things there. And then what you're putting 451 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:47,080 S2: in your body with caffeine. It's interesting because caffeine affects 452 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,560 S2: depend are different between different people because it is dependent 453 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,240 S2: on an enzyme in your body that breaks down caffeine. 454 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,040 S2: And some people's enzyme works really well and others doesn't. 455 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,520 S2: And as you age, it also stops working quite as well. 456 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,640 S2: And so is 11 a.m. rule is fairly consistent. I 457 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,840 S2: personally have a 2 p.m. rule, but it kind of 458 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,320 S2: depends on when you're going to bed and how well 459 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,960 S2: you handle caffeine. So he is right, I avoid caffeine 460 00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,920 S2: about eight eight hours before going to bed and be 461 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,640 S2: aware it's in tea and chocolate and other things like 462 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,399 S2: he was pointing out. And then what you put into 463 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,520 S2: your mind, particularly the last 1 to 2 hours before 464 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,320 S2: you go to sleep, is impactful. And so that technology, 465 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,520 S2: like you mentioned, the TV being right there or your phone, 466 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,200 S2: what's you're filling your mind with, uh, you know, show 467 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,920 S2: that maybe has violence or suspense. All those things do 468 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,560 S2: impact how you sleep either to get to sleep or 469 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,439 S2: your sleep quality. And so those are excellent suggestions, very 470 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,000 S2: similar to some of the things that I bring up 471 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,480 S2: in my chapter on wise living when it comes to sleep. 472 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:56,720 S1: And if you go to Chris fabriclive.org, you'll see that 473 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,879 S1: book when Sleep won't come. Chris is in Florida. Chris, 474 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:01,919 S1: why did you call today? 475 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,920 S4: Uh, good afternoon gentlemen, thanks so much. I found this 476 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,760 S4: conversation rather intriguing. I have described myself as an incurable 477 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:15,359 S4: Insomniac for my entire life. I'm now retired and living 478 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,040 S4: in Florida. Supposedly living the good life. Cough cough choke 479 00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:24,359 S4: choke and, um. Um. Since I've come here, my physician 480 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:29,600 S4: that's here has actually prescribed trazodone for me. And for 481 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,240 S4: the first time in my life, I actually found something 482 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,120 S4: that seems to actually assist me in being able to sleep. Now, 483 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,800 S4: I averaged 2 to 4 hours of sleep my entire 484 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,680 S4: adult life, and I just basically learned how to cope 485 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,800 S4: with it and live with it and how I was 486 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,760 S4: able to function. People would ask me my whole life, 487 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,920 S4: how did you how do you do that? I don't 488 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,520 S4: know that I have an intelligible answer, then just toughed 489 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,600 S4: it out. Um, so I found the title to his 490 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600 S4: books very, very intriguing. But, um, obviously in my mind 491 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,640 S4: and in my heart, I'm a retired pastor. I would 492 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:09,080 S4: much rather not have to be, so to say, dependent upon, 493 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:14,090 S4: you know, a chemical or a prescription. However, for the 494 00:29:14,090 --> 00:29:16,750 S4: first time in my life, I'm actually sleeping 6 to 495 00:29:16,750 --> 00:29:18,370 S4: 8 hours a day. Wow. 496 00:29:18,530 --> 00:29:21,330 S1: Um, what's that feel like? What does it feel like? 497 00:29:21,850 --> 00:29:24,250 S4: I cannot even tell you. I'm like, I wake up 498 00:29:24,250 --> 00:29:27,969 S4: every morning going, so this is what normal people enjoy 499 00:29:27,970 --> 00:29:30,690 S4: every day. I there are no words. 500 00:29:31,010 --> 00:29:33,170 S1: Yeah. Matt. Respond to that. 501 00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:38,010 S2: Yeah. We were talking earlier with when Pam had called 502 00:29:38,010 --> 00:29:40,050 S2: in and I don't know what part was disrupted or not, 503 00:29:40,050 --> 00:29:44,970 S2: but about medication. And I think for a lot of people, um, 504 00:29:44,970 --> 00:29:48,050 S2: just the, the benefits and risks need to be weighed. 505 00:29:48,410 --> 00:29:54,010 S2: And for you, you would qualify that conversation about medication 506 00:29:54,010 --> 00:29:59,010 S2: because of how severe your sleep deprivation was, the duration. 507 00:29:59,050 --> 00:30:00,890 S2: A lot of times, you know, a lot of things 508 00:30:00,890 --> 00:30:05,250 S2: will resolve, particularly circumstantial things within three months. So after 509 00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:09,090 S2: three months, this can become a reason to consider medication, 510 00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:11,410 S2: and then also just how impactful it is to your 511 00:30:11,410 --> 00:30:14,170 S2: daily living. For some, they're so exhausted, you know, they're 512 00:30:14,290 --> 00:30:17,730 S2: they shouldn't really be driving. They're falling asleep, almost like 513 00:30:17,770 --> 00:30:22,690 S2: what seems mid-conversation. Those kind of folks. That's where medication 514 00:30:22,690 --> 00:30:25,010 S2: can play a role. Even, you know, you can get 515 00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:27,610 S2: so sleep deprived that you almost become a little psychotic 516 00:30:27,610 --> 00:30:31,890 S2: or like confused, difficult thinking. So that's when medication plays 517 00:30:31,890 --> 00:30:34,130 S2: a role. And there is a place for it and 518 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:35,729 S2: it can be helpful. I think you just need to 519 00:30:35,730 --> 00:30:38,770 S2: go in with eyes wide open and know too, that 520 00:30:38,770 --> 00:30:43,450 S2: it's not first line like there's other things to do first, um, 521 00:30:43,530 --> 00:30:47,330 S2: which get mentioned in the book prior to medicine, but 522 00:30:47,330 --> 00:30:50,050 S2: then for some medicine is where they need to be 523 00:30:50,050 --> 00:30:52,690 S2: and then they're getting relief. Kind of like you've experienced. Chris. 524 00:30:52,890 --> 00:30:55,410 S1: Yeah. Chris, thanks for your call. So, so some of 525 00:30:55,410 --> 00:31:00,170 S1: those things, I'm guessing after looking at the book of 526 00:31:00,490 --> 00:31:03,490 S1: the temperature of the room, when you go to sleep, 527 00:31:03,490 --> 00:31:06,050 S1: the darkness of the room when you go to sleep, 528 00:31:06,130 --> 00:31:11,210 S1: The lack of devices and electrical, uh, things that are 529 00:31:11,210 --> 00:31:13,530 S1: going on around you, is that part of it? 530 00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:18,490 S2: Yes, absolutely. There's a lot of environmental factors that I 531 00:31:18,490 --> 00:31:22,410 S2: bring up, and many of which you're talking about even 532 00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:25,610 S2: the idea of a clock. Some people would say, oh, 533 00:31:25,650 --> 00:31:28,330 S2: the clock is so great. That's a relatively new thing. 534 00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:30,970 S2: If you really look back the full time that we've 535 00:31:30,970 --> 00:31:34,330 S2: had on our planet. But the clock even can cause anxiety. 536 00:31:34,370 --> 00:31:36,209 S2: You wake up, you look at the clock and you're like, 537 00:31:36,210 --> 00:31:39,050 S2: oh my goodness, it's only 2 a.m. or it is 538 00:31:39,050 --> 00:31:41,890 S2: 4 a.m. or whatever. However your brain's processing, they found 539 00:31:41,890 --> 00:31:45,850 S2: there's a lot of anxiety and worsening of insomnia with 540 00:31:45,850 --> 00:31:50,050 S2: just looking at clocks. Noises can be disruptive, but one 541 00:31:50,050 --> 00:31:53,130 S2: of the big things is people can be disruptive, like 542 00:31:53,130 --> 00:31:56,050 S2: depending on your life and where the Lord has you caregiving, 543 00:31:56,410 --> 00:32:01,130 S2: either as a young mom or caring for your aging parents, uh, 544 00:32:01,130 --> 00:32:04,210 S2: or anything in between, you know, all those things can 545 00:32:04,340 --> 00:32:06,780 S2: be disruptive to sleep, right? So there's just a lot 546 00:32:06,820 --> 00:32:11,500 S2: of factors that can compound influence, impact, and how we 547 00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:12,260 S2: sleep at night. 548 00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:14,860 S1: Okay. So if I don't ask you this before you 549 00:32:14,860 --> 00:32:18,020 S1: get off of here, you've got to to tell us 550 00:32:18,380 --> 00:32:21,700 S1: what you mean by if you're not sleeping, how to 551 00:32:21,740 --> 00:32:24,660 S1: get rest. But I want to go back to the calls. 552 00:32:24,660 --> 00:32:27,500 S1: Becky's on the line. Becky, you're on with Doctor Rarer. 553 00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:34,740 S5: Hi. My call comes just right with medicine on. I 554 00:32:35,140 --> 00:32:39,980 S5: am surprised to find myself in my seventh decade of life. 555 00:32:40,140 --> 00:32:44,540 S5: And me and all my friends suffer from no sleep. 556 00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:48,100 S5: And I'm so grateful for your book. I want to 557 00:32:48,140 --> 00:32:51,740 S5: ask you. All of us go to the pharmacy and 558 00:32:51,740 --> 00:32:56,660 S5: we look at melatonin and all these gummies and stuff 559 00:32:56,660 --> 00:33:00,020 S5: like that. Is that something we should be spending our 560 00:33:00,020 --> 00:33:04,580 S5: money on, or should we just nix all those over-the-counter 561 00:33:04,860 --> 00:33:09,060 S5: things that we could be buying to try to help 562 00:33:09,060 --> 00:33:09,700 S5: us sleep. 563 00:33:11,180 --> 00:33:14,500 S2: Yeah. Let me address the over-the-counter stuff, because you don't 564 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:16,260 S2: need to speak to a doctor for that. And you're 565 00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:19,340 S2: exactly right. You're trying to inform yourself of like, what 566 00:33:19,340 --> 00:33:23,220 S2: would be beneficial? Where do I spend my money? Um, 567 00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:26,380 S2: let me quickly address melatonin because that's the one you 568 00:33:26,380 --> 00:33:32,340 S2: mentioned melatonin. Some people maybe don't understand how it works. Um, 569 00:33:32,380 --> 00:33:35,540 S2: it works at sleep onset, meaning if you can't get 570 00:33:35,540 --> 00:33:39,180 S2: to sleep, it might be helpful to you, but you 571 00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:40,900 S2: need to take it at the right time and in 572 00:33:40,900 --> 00:33:43,850 S2: a proper dosage. Generally you're taking it 30 minutes to 573 00:33:43,850 --> 00:33:46,900 S2: 60 minutes before you lay down and turn the lights off. 574 00:33:47,260 --> 00:33:50,580 S2: You're trying to mimic what melatonin does in your own brain, 575 00:33:50,940 --> 00:33:53,940 S2: which it's light dependent. So you're kind of trying to 576 00:33:53,980 --> 00:33:57,020 S2: link your circadian rhythm there. The second thing though, is 577 00:33:57,020 --> 00:33:58,900 S2: know that when you buy it over the counter, they've 578 00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:04,380 S2: done studies looking at 31 different melatonin over-the-counter supplements because 579 00:34:04,380 --> 00:34:07,420 S2: it's not FDA regulated. They found the amount in those 580 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:10,540 S2: supplements to be either 80% less than what was on 581 00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:14,580 S2: the bottle, up to 400 and something percent more. So 582 00:34:14,620 --> 00:34:17,700 S2: it's just you don't exactly know what you're taking, at 583 00:34:17,700 --> 00:34:19,899 S2: least in the amount that you think you're taking that. 584 00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:23,940 S2: And most people should be taking probably somewhere around one 585 00:34:23,940 --> 00:34:27,660 S2: to up to ten milligrams. So that's one thing. Just 586 00:34:27,660 --> 00:34:31,900 S2: to note, it's over the counter, not highly regulated melatonin 587 00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:34,580 S2: specifically for sleep onset. Meaning if you woke up at 588 00:34:34,580 --> 00:34:37,700 S2: two in the morning, you took melatonin. It's doing nothing 589 00:34:37,700 --> 00:34:41,739 S2: for you. It's not helping anything. Um, so hopefully that's 590 00:34:41,739 --> 00:34:44,180 S2: just a little window into that. The second thing is 591 00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:48,419 S2: if you are in your 70s, people calling in that, 592 00:34:48,460 --> 00:34:51,860 S2: that kind of decade of life. Don't neglect the nap. 593 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:54,180 S2: I am a big fan of naps, but you have 594 00:34:54,180 --> 00:34:56,900 S2: to do it the right way, which means most people. 595 00:34:56,940 --> 00:35:00,460 S2: A nap is ideally done about eight hours after you 596 00:35:00,500 --> 00:35:04,220 S2: woke up. That will fall generally in early afternoon, but 597 00:35:04,219 --> 00:35:07,779 S2: should usually only be up to 30 minutes. NASA did 598 00:35:07,820 --> 00:35:11,100 S2: an amazing study showing that the ideal nap is about 599 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:14,219 S2: 26 minutes, because you don't want to get so far 600 00:35:14,219 --> 00:35:18,339 S2: into your sleep cycle. That actually causes you drowsiness and 601 00:35:18,340 --> 00:35:20,820 S2: almost like a hangover feeling when you wake up. So 602 00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:23,219 S2: big fan of naps. Lots of good things happen in 603 00:35:23,219 --> 00:35:26,060 S2: a nap and utilize it if you're having trouble at night, 604 00:35:26,060 --> 00:35:28,860 S2: particularly if you're in your seventh decade. 605 00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:32,380 S1: Great call. Thank you. I saw somebody the other day 606 00:35:32,420 --> 00:35:37,219 S1: say just off the cuff, I rub magnesium oil on 607 00:35:37,219 --> 00:35:40,900 S1: my feet every night. And I never, never heard that before. 608 00:35:41,060 --> 00:35:42,859 S1: And I just looked it up. And it says it 609 00:35:42,860 --> 00:35:48,860 S1: is a popular evening ritual that promotes relaxation, soothes muscles, 610 00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:53,339 S1: sore muscles, leg cramps. You know, that peripheral neuropathy. What 611 00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,380 S1: do you say about magnesium oil? 612 00:35:56,540 --> 00:36:00,350 S2: Yeah. And magnesium supplements are very popular right now for 613 00:36:00,350 --> 00:36:04,310 S2: treating for sleep. And that's because it's a smooth muscle relaxant. 614 00:36:04,750 --> 00:36:08,069 S2: And so for some, they're finding if they take magnesium 615 00:36:08,070 --> 00:36:10,430 S2: before they go to bed, that it's actually been helpful 616 00:36:10,430 --> 00:36:13,430 S2: to them. I don't think it's a panacea. Like it 617 00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:17,109 S2: would fix everyone's problems, but for some people, they do 618 00:36:17,110 --> 00:36:19,230 S2: seem to get some benefit from it. I, I've not 619 00:36:19,230 --> 00:36:22,390 S2: looked into the oil itself, but just the actual pill 620 00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:25,830 S2: supplements that people are taking. And there seems to be 621 00:36:25,870 --> 00:36:29,630 S2: at least some directional data saying it might be helpful, 622 00:36:29,630 --> 00:36:33,630 S2: but again, it's not for everybody and, um, and isn't 623 00:36:33,630 --> 00:36:35,110 S2: going to cure, I think all of your, all of 624 00:36:35,110 --> 00:36:37,270 S2: your problems, but it is something to look into. 625 00:36:37,950 --> 00:36:42,629 S1: Matt. Rarer is an emergency medical medicine physician in San 626 00:36:42,630 --> 00:36:45,790 S1: Francisco Bay area. He's a pastor as well. And his 627 00:36:45,790 --> 00:36:50,149 S1: book is our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org, where 628 00:36:50,150 --> 00:36:53,150 S1: only the scratch in the surface of when sleep won't 629 00:36:53,150 --> 00:36:59,029 S1: come help and hope for body and soul. Chris fabriclive.org. 630 00:36:59,070 --> 00:37:12,989 S1: More straight ahead. Doctor Matt Rarer is our guest today 631 00:37:12,989 --> 00:37:16,390 S1: at the back fence. When sleep won't Come. Help and 632 00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:21,029 S1: Hope for Body and Soul. Featured resource at Chris fabriclive.org. 633 00:37:21,670 --> 00:37:23,589 S1: I want to do this here because I don't want 634 00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:26,790 S1: to push it to the end. When you can't sleep, 635 00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:30,270 S1: you can still rest. Tell me about that. 636 00:37:31,870 --> 00:37:34,670 S2: Yeah, thanks for asking, Chris. I, I think for me, 637 00:37:34,670 --> 00:37:36,670 S2: that was probably one of the biggest lessons to be 638 00:37:36,670 --> 00:37:39,310 S2: learned here. And what I think Jesus teaches us in 639 00:37:39,310 --> 00:37:43,670 S2: Scripture is that even in sleeplessness, we can still find 640 00:37:43,710 --> 00:37:46,990 S2: rest in the Lord. And actually that the sleeplessness provides 641 00:37:46,989 --> 00:37:50,189 S2: you that opportunity to entrust yourself to him. And it's 642 00:37:50,190 --> 00:37:52,029 S2: not easy, because I think for all of us as 643 00:37:52,070 --> 00:37:54,990 S2: we're talking about this and people are calling in, Uh, 644 00:37:55,150 --> 00:37:57,870 S2: it can be a very frustrating time to not sleep. 645 00:37:57,870 --> 00:37:59,629 S2: And so to be able to order your mind in 646 00:37:59,630 --> 00:38:03,190 S2: such a way that you see is an opportunity to rest. Um, 647 00:38:03,190 --> 00:38:06,870 S2: really requires forethought and almost planning to try to get there. 648 00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:11,310 S2: But that's the example we see from the life of Jesus, um, on, 649 00:38:11,310 --> 00:38:13,430 S2: on a number of fronts. And I think for those 650 00:38:13,430 --> 00:38:18,430 S2: of us who are suffering in sleeplessness, um, I end 651 00:38:18,469 --> 00:38:20,830 S2: the book here because I think it's so pivotal is 652 00:38:20,830 --> 00:38:23,870 S2: to realize you have a sympathetic savior. So one of 653 00:38:23,870 --> 00:38:26,589 S2: the ways to rest is to pray. And I talk 654 00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:32,229 S2: about actually a mnemonic cast to confess, ask, surrender, and 655 00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:34,549 S2: thank the Lord, which is just a way to walk 656 00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:37,830 S2: through prayer with him. But the reason he's sympathetic is 657 00:38:37,830 --> 00:38:41,989 S2: because Jesus lived the longest day of his life. And 658 00:38:41,989 --> 00:38:45,469 S2: one of the the most important days in our history 659 00:38:45,469 --> 00:38:49,230 S2: on this planet as he went to the cross, sleepless. 660 00:38:49,550 --> 00:38:52,069 S2: And it's highlighted by the fact the disciples can't stay 661 00:38:52,070 --> 00:38:54,640 S2: up right there. They're actually falling asleep in the Garden 662 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,240 S2: of Gethsemane. And there's Jesus saying, you need to keep watch. 663 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,240 S2: This is an important time and a time to be alert. 664 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,239 S2: And then not only does he stay awake there to 665 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,600 S2: be arrested, he he stays awake all the way through 666 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,120 S2: his trials. Um, and then all the way to the 667 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,919 S2: cross as our sympathetic savior. And so when we pray 668 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:14,839 S2: to him and we come to him, we cast our 669 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,239 S2: cares upon him, he understands what it means to suffer 670 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,680 S2: and be sleepless, going right back to the cross. I 671 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:23,920 S2: think that was a huge impact to me when I 672 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,200 S2: recognized that. 673 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:29,040 S1: Yeah. And that's just part of the book that, uh, 674 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,040 S1: you know, because they're very practical things in here. But 675 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:38,320 S1: there's also that theological when sleep won't come, Cindy's in Michigan. Hi, Cindy. 676 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,040 S1: Go right ahead. 677 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,200 S6: Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I have 678 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,319 S6: a few things that have helped me, and then I 679 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,359 S6: have a question. Um, one thing that has helped is 680 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:56,440 S6: going outside with sunrise. Getting the full light spectrum. Um, 681 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:01,080 S6: noticed a drastic change in my circadian rhythm. And for 682 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,120 S6: the first time, I'm waking up on time without an 683 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,480 S6: alarm clock. Um, I try to go out right at 684 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,359 S6: sunrise or within two hours. And now my husband is 685 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,520 S6: doing that as well and he's noticing the same benefit, um, 686 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,520 S6: sleeping a lot deeper as well. And then if I 687 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:26,760 S6: am laying down, um, really prior to getting up at sunrise, 688 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,680 S6: if I'm laying down and was finding that I was 689 00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,080 S6: not able to sleep or I was getting certain things 690 00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,239 S6: going through my head, I would try to renew my 691 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,680 S6: mind and start going through the A, B, C either 692 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:43,000 S6: praying for someone with a, you know, A, their name 693 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,080 S6: starts with A, B, C, or attributes of Jesus or 694 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,839 S6: things I was thankful for. that helped tremendously. I don't 695 00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:55,640 S6: think I ever made it through the full alphabet. Um, 696 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,840 S6: no Wi-Fi, no alarm clocks, no phones, nothing electrical. We've 697 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,759 S6: done all that. Um, I think we have the best 698 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,120 S6: sleep we've ever had through almost 30 years of marriage. 699 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,520 S6: So all those things have helped. And then my question, though. 700 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,879 S6: I have a daughter in law who is going on 701 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,040 S6: her fourth year of working as an ER nurse, midnight. 702 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,000 S6: She does not have regular schedules as far as, you know, 703 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,560 S6: three days on, two off. It's variable. She can have 704 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,360 S6: six on, one off, two on, three off, etc. so 705 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,839 S6: just any anything you could recommend for her to get 706 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:40,000 S6: the true sleep that she her body needs for her health? 707 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:42,240 S6: I would appreciate that. 708 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,399 S2: Well, first of all, you're hitting a couple of really 709 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,570 S2: important points in your example. So people are listening. I 100% 710 00:41:50,570 --> 00:41:53,729 S2: agree with early sunlight exposure. The Lord made it this 711 00:41:53,730 --> 00:41:58,410 S2: way prior to all of our electricity. So that morning sunrise, 712 00:41:58,410 --> 00:42:00,489 S2: what you're doing is you're telling your body it's time 713 00:42:00,489 --> 00:42:02,850 S2: to be up. So throw those curtains open. If you 714 00:42:02,850 --> 00:42:05,730 S2: can't get outside, it's very important in the first 30 715 00:42:05,730 --> 00:42:09,970 S2: minutes to get early morning sunlight exposure. So you are 716 00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:13,489 S2: exactly right. And there's actually a biologic reason that that's 717 00:42:13,489 --> 00:42:16,090 S2: working for you. And then praying for others. What a 718 00:42:16,090 --> 00:42:18,330 S2: great thing. Because when you can't sleep, it's all focused 719 00:42:18,330 --> 00:42:21,689 S2: on you, right? Um, and I can't sleep. I can't 720 00:42:21,690 --> 00:42:25,410 S2: do this. Great. Think about others. Think about the Lord. Um, 721 00:42:25,450 --> 00:42:27,650 S2: I hope if I'm your friend, I've got an a 722 00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:30,530 S2: name because I, whoever's got a Z name is getting 723 00:42:30,530 --> 00:42:35,010 S2: left out of that. But, um, as far as your daughter, um, 724 00:42:35,050 --> 00:42:36,969 S2: I can't remember your daughter. Daughter in law. That's the 725 00:42:36,969 --> 00:42:39,969 S2: nurse in the E.R.. This is exactly why I looked 726 00:42:39,969 --> 00:42:42,770 S2: into this, because I was struggling with the shift work. 727 00:42:43,250 --> 00:42:46,250 S2: And there's things you can do to try to regulate 728 00:42:46,250 --> 00:42:50,569 S2: or keep your circadian rhythm in order. And a lot 729 00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:53,290 S2: of it has to do with exercise and food intake 730 00:42:53,330 --> 00:42:57,210 S2: and light exposure. Just very basic things to help keeping 731 00:42:57,210 --> 00:43:00,690 S2: your body attuned to the way that it's been designed, 732 00:43:00,690 --> 00:43:04,410 S2: because we're working and covering to care for people in 733 00:43:04,410 --> 00:43:08,049 S2: very odd hours. Right. And overnights. So I do have 734 00:43:08,050 --> 00:43:09,569 S2: I probably have time to go into here, but just 735 00:43:09,570 --> 00:43:12,169 S2: some tips on even that to try to help regulate 736 00:43:12,850 --> 00:43:15,850 S2: your circadian. But two things you brought up 100% agree 737 00:43:15,850 --> 00:43:16,290 S2: with them. 738 00:43:16,930 --> 00:43:21,690 S1: Cindy, I'm glad you called today. Um, what have your 739 00:43:22,010 --> 00:43:25,930 S1: spouse or somebody that you really care about is struggling 740 00:43:25,930 --> 00:43:29,489 S1: in this area? Is it a good idea to ask them, hey, 741 00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:31,890 S1: how'd you sleep last night? Or does that put more 742 00:43:31,890 --> 00:43:33,010 S1: pressure on them? 743 00:43:34,969 --> 00:43:37,450 S2: Well, the positive to asking that question, which I think 744 00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:40,529 S2: we do ask a lot more than we realize. The 745 00:43:40,530 --> 00:43:43,170 S2: positive is you're showing concern and giving that person a 746 00:43:43,170 --> 00:43:45,890 S2: chance to actually express how things have gone to then 747 00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:49,969 S2: be able to address it. Versus you don't ask and 748 00:43:49,969 --> 00:43:51,730 S2: they don't share and you don't know what they're going 749 00:43:51,730 --> 00:43:54,650 S2: through and what burdens they're dealing with. So I like, 750 00:43:54,690 --> 00:43:58,450 S2: I think it's helpful to ask to be. But then 751 00:43:58,450 --> 00:44:01,810 S2: you actually need to be a sympathetic ear and compassionate 752 00:44:01,810 --> 00:44:04,529 S2: listener and try to help them, or at least be 753 00:44:04,570 --> 00:44:07,009 S2: able to listen to their concerns and then listen for 754 00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:08,930 S2: what's keeping them up. You can also ask them, was 755 00:44:08,930 --> 00:44:11,130 S2: there something going through your mind? Is there a burden 756 00:44:11,570 --> 00:44:13,690 S2: that's keeping you up? And then use that as an 757 00:44:13,690 --> 00:44:16,330 S2: opportunity to, to, to be a listening ear and then 758 00:44:16,330 --> 00:44:19,210 S2: a comfort and talking through that with them. 759 00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:21,730 S1: We have one caller. We're right at the end of 760 00:44:21,730 --> 00:44:26,810 S1: the program. She's helping her mom with dementia. And she said, 761 00:44:26,810 --> 00:44:30,930 S1: sometimes I'll listen to scripture or I'll listen to worship 762 00:44:30,930 --> 00:44:34,610 S1: music to kind of help me rest or sleep. Is 763 00:44:34,610 --> 00:44:37,570 S1: that healthy or do I should I have silence? 764 00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:42,690 S2: Oh, I believe filling your mind in that last hour 765 00:44:42,690 --> 00:44:45,009 S2: before you go to bed is really important. So I 766 00:44:45,010 --> 00:44:48,690 S2: would pick and choose your music wisely. Like no death metal, 767 00:44:48,730 --> 00:44:51,770 S2: you know, or anything like that. But but having scripture 768 00:44:51,770 --> 00:44:57,970 S2: focused or saturated songs, very helpful. Singing, frankly, was was 769 00:44:57,969 --> 00:45:01,170 S2: replicated or seen in the life of Paul and Silas 770 00:45:01,170 --> 00:45:03,969 S2: when they're in prison, right? They're up at midnight suffering. 771 00:45:04,450 --> 00:45:07,250 S2: And so turning to songs in the night is very biblical. 772 00:45:07,250 --> 00:45:09,810 S2: You see, the Psalm Psalmists do that a lot, singing 773 00:45:09,810 --> 00:45:11,689 S2: songs in the night. So I'm I'm a big fan 774 00:45:11,690 --> 00:45:14,970 S2: of that. Filling your mind with Scripture, especially the Psalms, 775 00:45:14,969 --> 00:45:15,730 S2: I think is helpful. 776 00:45:15,770 --> 00:45:19,410 S1: Yeah it is. It is a fascinating topic. It's one 777 00:45:19,410 --> 00:45:23,010 S1: of our callers said, but it's one that cuts right 778 00:45:23,010 --> 00:45:27,330 S1: to the very heart of personal struggles all around the 779 00:45:27,330 --> 00:45:29,489 S1: country and those who are listening. I can tell by 780 00:45:29,530 --> 00:45:32,530 S1: the response from folks that are calling in here today 781 00:45:32,530 --> 00:45:36,290 S1: that it's you've touched a nerve. So, Doctor Herrera, thanks 782 00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:38,690 S1: for your work. Thanks for putting it down on the page. 783 00:45:38,690 --> 00:45:40,940 S1: That's going to help even more people and come back 784 00:45:40,940 --> 00:45:42,300 S1: and see us real soon, okay? 785 00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:45,060 S2: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. 786 00:45:45,780 --> 00:45:52,020 S1: Doctor Matt. Rarer REHRER has written when sleep won't Come 787 00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:55,500 S1: help and Hope for Body and Soul. It's our featured 788 00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:59,779 S1: resource at Chris Fabry live.org. Just scroll down and you'll 789 00:45:59,780 --> 00:46:02,580 S1: see the link that we have for you there for 790 00:46:02,620 --> 00:46:06,660 S1: his ministry. And pray for Doctor Rare, both as a 791 00:46:06,660 --> 00:46:11,060 S1: medical professional there in the emergency room as well as 792 00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:14,700 S1: a pastor. Again, When Sleep Won't Come is the title 793 00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:18,540 S1: of that book. Now we're going to go back in history, 794 00:46:18,580 --> 00:46:24,020 S1: way back in history with doctor Mark Yarborough and Jerry Jenkins, 795 00:46:24,020 --> 00:46:26,740 S1: who will be with us tomorrow at the Radio Backyard Fence. 796 00:46:26,739 --> 00:46:29,299 S1: Don't miss it. Chris Fabry Live is a production of 797 00:46:29,300 --> 00:46:32,660 S1: Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.