S1: Was recently dating a friend who attends a different denomination.
S2: How serious of an issue is this?
S3: He has so much anger in his heart.
S4: I love her more than anything. I want to save
S4: our marriage.
S5: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S5: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Today
S5: we open the listener line and hear from you as
S5: you post questions for trusted pastor, counselor, and author doctor
S5: Gary Chapman. And we have some great questions today on
S5: our March edition of Dear Gary.
S6: And it's our hope that something you hear today will
S6: help you in your marriage and your parenting. Maybe in
S6: your singleness. Especially on this Easter weekend when we celebrate
S6: the resurrection power God exhibited in Jesus. That same power
S6: is available to you and me, and I think you're
S6: going to hear some of that in Gary's answers today,
S6: that there's real hope because of the real risen Lord.
S6: If you go to building relationships with us, you'll find
S6: more simple ways to strengthen your relationships. Like the book
S6: written by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden titled the DIY
S6: Guide to Building a Family That Lasts. Just go to
S6: building relationships with us, Gary. We talked about that book
S6: here before. Tell me again, what do you hope parents
S6: take away from this do it yourself guide?
S7: Well, you know, I want to emphasize the DIY part,
S7: but also explain it. You know, the scriptures say without
S7: God we can do nothing. So it's not that you're
S7: doing parenting by yourself, but these are practical things that
S7: you can do in cooperation with God, in raising your
S7: children and in having a healthy marriage. Uh, it's really,
S7: really practical book. My my co-author, I've known for many years.
S7: She used to be on our staff as a counselor.
S7: She's now a counselor in another place in our city.
S7: But it's just a really, really practical. That's what I
S7: would suggest. It's giving you things you can actually do
S7: that will enhance your parenting and enhance your relationship and
S7: your marriage.
S6: The DIY Guide to Building a Family That Lasts. You'll
S6: find it at the website. Building relationships with us again.
S6: Building relationships with us. Well, on our Dear Gary broadcast,
S6: we take your calls and remember you can get involved
S6: by leaving a message for Gary at the number 866424. Gary,
S6: we'd love to hear from you. Today we have three
S6: calls about spiritual mismatches. So we're going to go through
S6: all three of these in order. The first is a
S6: wife who had this to say.
S8: Hi, Gary. So the past about a year and a half,
S8: I've really fallen in love with the word, with Jesus,
S8: of getting closer to God. And I have a six
S8: year old and one year old who I am trying
S8: to build a relationship with God, with him. And my
S8: husband is just not. Putting God in the center of
S8: our marriage or in our family. He doesn't find it
S8: be important. Um, going to church for him is just
S8: like an action. It's just for a show.
S6: Just for show. Now, her call cut off right there.
S6: But my guess is, Gary, you've got enough of the
S6: situation to respond. What would you say to her?
S7: Well, first of all, encourage that she is growing in
S7: her relationship with God because that's always a positive. The
S7: other thing I would say is just remember, we cannot
S7: make people do things that we think would be appropriate,
S7: you know, for them. Uh, one of the things I
S7: heard her say was he's reluctant to go to church
S7: because he sees it as just kind of a formality
S7: or a ritual. The first thing I'd say is, don't
S7: preach to him. Don't preach to him. It's not going.
S7: It's not going to help you demonstrate to him what
S7: your relationship with God is doing in your life. If
S7: he begins to see you being kind, as the Scripture say,
S7: be kind to one another. Uh, you know, treat it.
S7: Love your enemies. He sees you loving him unconditionally, speaking
S7: his love language on a regular basis, affirming him for
S7: the positive things you do see in his life. It
S7: will have a far more positive impact on his life
S7: than complaining to him about his not going to church
S7: and not being a spiritual leader in the home. So
S7: you're going to influence him one way or the other.
S7: I'm just saying, let's have a positive influence by demonstrating
S7: to him the attitude of Christ, of loving him in
S7: spite of the fact that he's not doing the things
S7: that you really wish he would do when he sees
S7: Christ changing your life. It's going to have an impact
S7: on him. Now, again, you can't make him. You can't
S7: make him turn to God. But that kind of example,
S7: it's going to be far more impactful in a positive way.
S6: And you can pray, pray, pray and get other people
S6: to pray, pray, pray and and trust God in the
S6: middle of the struggle so that that's the first spiritual
S6: mismatch in a marriage. Now here comes the second one.
S6: Caller two is in a dating relationship.
S9: Hi, Gary. Uh, I just had a question. I'm listening
S9: to the program on the radio. I really appreciate the
S9: things that you've shared over the years, but, um, I
S9: was recently dating a friend, um, who attends, uh, different denomination,
S9: just as a member of beliefs about, um, what Scripture
S9: teaches in terms of being filled with the Holy Spirit
S9: as part of every believer and just speaking in tongues,
S9: being an evidence of that, as well as just miracles
S9: and healing and so forth. Everything else we agree on, uh,
S9: very strongly in terms of what it means to follow
S9: Christ and, uh, just love for him and love for others,
S9: particularly as believers for each other. But that was just
S9: an area of particularly more division for her and for myself. Um,
S9: just wondered if you have any insight in terms of
S9: believers from different backgrounds, how to navigate that as brothers
S9: and sisters in Christ? Thank you.
S7: Well, this is a very common question. I think if
S7: people are serious about their relationship with God than if
S7: they're Christians, both Christians, and they differ on certain issues
S7: about the Christian faith. Let's face it, that's why there
S7: are denominations, is because we disagree on certain aspects of
S7: the Christian life and certain understandings of the scriptures. I
S7: think it's good to discuss those things. I think it's
S7: I'm really glad that in your dating relationship, you're dealing
S7: with those issues because all of these things are important.
S7: It's just that some people put more importance on these
S7: things than others, and actually differ on some of these
S7: things than others. And we have to think in terms
S7: of if you're dating, you have to think in terms of,
S7: am I willing to commit myself to this kind of relationship,
S7: even though we disagree on these things for the rest
S7: of my life? Don't think you're going to get married
S7: and change them. And they should not get married thinking
S7: they're going to change you and make you like they are.
S7: I think being realistic about this, this is the issues
S7: that you you brought up and realizing, yes, Christians do disagree.
S7: That's why some people are in that denomination and others
S7: are in the nomination. I mean, we are members of
S7: the same family. We believe in Jesus Christ, and the
S7: forgiveness is comes through what he did on the cross.
S7: But we do differ on some significant things, and you
S7: have to decide how significant they are. But again, don't
S7: ever think that I'll marry them and they'll change because
S7: that's not likely to happen.
S6: Thinking about the tongues thing. If a person believes that
S6: you if you're a Christian, you're filled with the Holy Spirit.
S6: You will be able to speak in tongues if that's
S6: what you believe. Then, ten years down the road, he's
S6: not speaking in tongues. You know, you question if he's
S6: a Christian or not. I'm not saying that those two
S6: people can't be married together and love each other for
S6: their entire lives, but that's going to put a strain
S6: on that marriage in some way, don't you think?
S7: Absolutely, Chris. And for me, that's the value of dating,
S7: you know, and not every culture has dating, but in
S7: our culture we do. And I think that's the purpose
S7: of it is to talk about real issues and things.
S7: We believe and we believe strongly, and how much we
S7: disagree on certain things and how strongly we disagree on them.
S7: And yes, there are there are places that just say, well,
S7: you know, I do have love feelings for you. You know,
S7: that in love thing. But that's not that's not the
S7: foundation for marriage, being in love. You can be in
S7: love with somebody that's not even a Christian. And you are,
S7: which is a radical difference. Don't ignore those things. I
S7: guess it's what I'm saying. The process of dating leads
S7: us either to where we are willing to make a commitment,
S7: and ready to make a commitment and feel like that,
S7: that we have enough in common and that this thing
S7: is not going to be divisive because it can be,
S7: and it likely will be divisive.
S6: Gary, this next question is so vulnerable, and I'm hoping
S6: that you have some good advice for this caller who
S6: is questioning whether to move ahead with marriage plans.
S10: Hey Gary, my fiance and I are looking to get
S10: married and we align on all the primary theological, um,
S10: tenets of our faith. We believe in the gospel. We
S10: affirm the authority of God's Word. Uh, but we come
S10: from two different denominational backgrounds. Uh, he was raised Church
S10: of Christ, and I come from a Baptist background. Um,
S10: and we do not agree on the meaning of baptism. Um,
S10: he sees it as a instrument in our salvation, while
S10: I see it as a symbol of our salvation. And
S10: it's an ongoing conversation. But I understand, uh, through listening
S10: to your podcast, that unresolved issues can lead to bitterness.
S10: And so my question for you is how serious of
S10: an issue is this? And, um, wisdom or counsel would
S10: you provide in how we can seek unity and, um, yeah,
S10: work through this. Appreciate your help. God bless.
S7: Well, I think that's a common question. When people are
S7: dating someone of a denomination where they disagree on some
S7: pretty heavy duty things, such as baptism. Is baptism a
S7: necessity for salvation? Or are we saved simply by faith
S7: in what Christ did on the cross for us? And
S7: baptism is simply a proclamation, public proclamation that we have
S7: trusted Christ and turned our lives over to him. And
S7: it is a divisive issue. That's why we have two
S7: different denominations. You know, you mentioned the two that you mentioned,
S7: and there are other reasons why we have other denominations,
S7: because there are other things on which people disagree and
S7: feel strongly about. So yeah, I think this is an
S7: issue also that that is has to be considered. Here's
S7: the other part of that. When you get married, which
S7: church are you going to go to? And if you
S7: go to his church, you're going to feel uncomfortable when
S7: you hear the proclamation that he you know, his perspective.
S7: And when he comes to your church, he's going to
S7: feel like you all are not really Christians, you know,
S7: or he's questioning whether you are. Uh, but.
S6: And then children, then the children come along and you've
S6: got to decide then. Yeah.
S7: You got another another problem. I haven't actually known people
S7: where he goes to after they get married. He goes
S7: to his church. She goes to her church. Well, I
S7: do too. I don't I don't think that's good. I
S7: just don't think that's good. You know, uh, I think
S7: we need to be together in our walk with God. So, yeah,
S7: I think an issue like this in terms of a
S7: marriage could be really a decisive point to say. I
S7: just don't see how we can walk together on this
S7: issue and it not be troublesome to us, you know,
S7: through the years. Now, other people may feel differently about it,
S7: and I'm certainly open to that. I do think it's
S7: a it's an issue that is that needs to be
S7: deeply considered before you would decide actually to marry.
S6: Right. And I told you before we started here, Gary,
S6: I have specific memories of early part of my childhood
S6: when my mother, she was very much in that camp
S6: that she talks about her fiancé being and would argue
S6: there was a friend that my mom had named Mildred.
S6: Mildred Blake and Mildred would argue with my mother, and
S6: my mom could argue. Acts 238 to up and down.
S6: And she started listening to back to the Bible broadcast
S6: and some other other Christian broadcast on radio. And I
S6: think that's one of the reasons why I do radio today,
S6: is because it made such an impact on her about,
S6: do I add something to what Jesus did, you know,
S6: do I have to do a work for God in
S6: order for him to receive me, or is what he
S6: did sufficient? And it was after a very long time,
S6: and these conversations that they had that my mother and
S6: father realized in Ephesians 289, you know, and appropriated that
S6: and actually left that church, you know, left that teaching
S6: and moved moved to a different one. But it was
S6: a very difficult struggle for them to get to that place. Yeah. Um,
S6: and so I just say that not to not to
S6: twist anybody's arm to agree with me theologically, but to
S6: think that through, as you just said, think it through.
S6: What is it going to look like five years down
S6: the road, ten years down the road? Because that's not
S6: going to go away, right?
S7: Yeah, absolutely, Chris. That's why I think, you know, in
S7: the dating process, that's what we're looking for. How compatible
S7: are we in beliefs that are the most important area
S7: of our lives. And that is our belief in God,
S7: our belief in salvation through Jesus Christ and Him alone. So,
S7: you know, these these are these are big issues that
S7: we have to discuss.
S6: Well, if you disagree with Doctor Chapman here, you call
S6: him 866424. Gary, leave a message and we'll see if
S6: we can't get to your question. Your comment on a future.
S6: Dear Gary broadcast (866) 424-4279. Since we are on a roll
S6: with controversial questions and they're kind of theological, let's hear
S6: this next call from a listener who has a question
S6: about church leadership and remarriage.
S11: Hi, Gary. Good day. God bless. I have a question.
S11: It is regarding marriage or second marriage, and if so,
S11: can this person still be a pastor or pastor of
S11: a church? It's been a bit of a conflict between
S11: families with me and my husband, and I'm very confused.
S11: As to what the correct answer is. I mean, I
S11: know exactly what the Bible tells me. I'm calling to
S11: see if somebody with more experience like yourself can maybe
S11: shed a little more light on this matter. Thank you for.
S7: Well, I'm not totally sure if she's saying that she
S7: is married to someone who is a pastor, or was
S7: a pastor and has now or is now in a
S7: second marriage, and she's asking, can he biblically be a pastor?
S7: And she says she knows what the Scripture says, which
S7: is the idea that pretty clearly that a pastor should
S7: be the husband of one wife. Now people have interpreted
S7: that in different ways. It can be one wife at
S7: a time or some other interpretation of that. My own
S7: personal opinion of that is that if a person has
S7: is married the second time, they are not qualified to
S7: be a pastor. But I understand that there are others
S7: who disagree with that. We all are responsible for what
S7: we believe, and we should study the scriptures very carefully
S7: to try to make sure that what we believe is
S7: indeed in keeping with Scripture. So that's basically all I
S7: can say about that is, you know, to me, the
S7: scriptures teach clearly that the pastor, a pastor, is to
S7: be the husband of one wife.
S6: And that would be not not your your wife dies
S6: and you remarry like from divorce, right?
S7: Right, right, right. Because, you know, when a when a
S7: wife dies, that's a whole different story, you know, but
S7: obviously this is an issue in the Christian church. There's
S7: no question about it. It is divided in many Christians.
S6: Well, I'm glad we felt free to ask those kinds
S6: of questions. That's what we love to hear. 866424 Gary.
S6: Our next caller has a disagreement with you, Gary. We
S6: like those two. It makes it more interesting. At least
S6: he thinks he disagrees with you about he term, what
S6: he terms. Just accepting others. Here we go.
S12: Hi, Gary. I know you just talk about people just
S12: accepting what they do. You know, my kid, one lady
S12: called and said her son was supposed to be a Christian,
S12: but now he's just living with a girl, and she
S12: wants to know. You know, what to do. I know
S12: you talked about being kind and gentle and all that,
S12: but Paul says, if if a believer is living in
S12: complete rebellion to cut them off, don't have nothing to
S12: do with them. Don't even eat with them. How do
S12: you justify telling people that if they're having problems with
S12: a believer living in sin, and just be nice to
S12: them and kind of accept it?
S7: Of course I don't. I hope I didn't give the
S7: impression you accept what they're doing. We don't accept what
S7: they're doing. I think, however, if we're parents and our
S7: children are doing things that are non-biblical, I don't think
S7: we should cut them off because we cannot have any
S7: influence on them if we cut them off. Jesus himself
S7: ate with sinners. Uh, let's face it. He spent time
S7: with sinners. Uh, so I don't think we should. We
S7: should cut off our children simply because they're doing things
S7: that we disagree with. Now, we certainly need to verbalize
S7: what we believe. We need to let them know that
S7: we do not agree with what they're doing, and we're
S7: praying for them that God will convict them and will
S7: bring them to a place of doing what the scriptures say,
S7: whatever the topic is. I don't think we accept what
S7: they're doing, but I don't think that we cut them
S7: off and have nothing to do with them as parents
S7: because Jesus said, love your enemies, even if they are
S7: an enemy. Uh, we're still to love them. So it's
S7: a matter of how are we going to express that love?
S7: And I don't think you express love simply by saying,
S7: I'll have nothing to do with you. I don't want
S7: you in my house anymore. I don't want to see
S7: you again until you get this straightened out. Yes. I
S7: don't think that's the way Jesus would have responded.
S6: On the other hand, I think he might be talking
S6: about church discipline. You know, there's somebody in the body
S6: who is is sinning in an open way or, you know, uh,
S6: and they they don't respond to the loving encouragement from
S6: the leadership, you know, to, to change behavior. And they
S6: just in that case, there's church discipline, right?
S7: Yeah. In fact, uh, Matthew 18, Jesus said, uh, you
S7: if someone's sinning, you approach them. If they repent, you
S7: forgive them. If they don't, you take somebody with you
S7: and you go talk to them again. And then if
S7: they don't respond, you tell the church, then the implication
S7: is the church will send somebody. Then if they don't respond,
S7: he said, treat them as a pagan. Well, what do
S7: you do with pagans? You pray for pagans, you pray
S7: for pagans. You know, you give food to hungry pagans.
S7: You know you return good for evil. Uh, so, uh, yes.
S7: But I do think certainly in terms of church fellowship,
S7: there is a place for, you know, that we we
S7: we have to take some kind of action to say,
S7: you know, you are not you're no longer in fellowship
S7: with this church because of your living in sin. And
S7: we are praying for you and we if there's anything
S7: we can do to help you, we want to help you.
S7: But we can't accept your behavior because we've done everything
S7: we know to help you turn back to God. And
S7: and so we're here. We're always here and always available
S7: for you. So yeah, I think there's there's that thing
S7: of standing for the truth, but being open to the
S7: possibility that forgiveness can come because if they repent, God
S7: will forgive them. I don't care what they've done. And
S7: we must also always stand ready to forgive pagans when
S7: they turn to God.
S6: And I was glad that you called with that question,
S6: because it you know, there's something about the, you know,
S6: the disagreement or the way that you heard what Doctor
S6: Chapman said, that he can clarify here. I want you
S6: to respond to an email. Gary, uh, a listener heard
S6: a conversation with Kia Stevens. We had her on this
S6: program about overcoming father wounds. And here's what he says.
S6: This past August, after 22 years of marriage, our struggles
S6: came to a head. We've been in counseling since August.
S6: We're working on unpacking our past wounds and gaining understanding
S6: of how those wounds have impacted how we work as
S6: a couple. This has been one of the darkest and
S6: stormiest seasons of my life. I'm still struggling as it
S6: relates to how we move forward. We don't have any
S6: acute incidents like physical abuse or substance abuse, pornography, infidelity,
S6: he says. In our marriage, it's more of a low
S6: hum of miscommunication, exacerbated by the wounds we both bring
S6: to the table. My wife describes it from her perspective
S6: as death by a million paper cuts. I'm heartbroken to
S6: be learning just how much my deficit in the area
S6: of emotional maturity and subsequent communication struggles have injured my wife.
S6: I feel like I've been in a thick, disorienting fog
S6: since August, with very few glimpses of the fog receiving receding.
S6: I'm trying to hold on to hopefulness, and I know
S6: God can and does often reconcile strained relationships and heals
S6: wounded and injured hearts. What would you say to him?
S7: Well, first of all, I'm encouraged that they're going for counseling.
S7: Because when you have long term, long standing, uh, frustrations
S7: and disagreements and never able to resolve them yourself, you
S7: need an outside party who is empathetic with each of you,
S7: because each of you belong to God, and God loves
S7: each of you. And so an outside person can help
S7: you understand each other and understand yourself and what perhaps
S7: is behind some of your behavior. So I am really
S7: encouraged that you're going for counseling. I would not give up,
S7: even if you feel like, well, we're not making a
S7: whole lot of progress. Uh, I would continue the process
S7: because it takes time to work through the pain and
S7: the hurt of the past. The other thing I would
S7: say is, uh, I'm assuming both of you are Christians. Uh,
S7: if you are, I would say every day ask God
S7: to give you the attitude of Christ toward your spouse.
S7: That's what we're encouraged to do. And if in Philippians
S7: chapter two, let this attitude be in you, which was
S7: also in Christ Jesus, who though he was God, he
S7: didn't demand his rights as God, but he emptied himself
S7: and became a man. And once he got on level
S7: ground with us, he stepped down further to the death
S7: on the cross. Let that attitude be in you. So
S7: if you ask God to give you the attitude of
S7: Christ that I am in this marriage to you, and
S7: I want to do everything I can to help you
S7: become the person you believe God wants you to be.
S7: If each of you pray that prayer, I believe God
S7: will change your attitude and he will give you an
S7: attitude that's not selfishness. Not wanting your way, but wanting
S7: to know how can I best serve the other person?
S7: And I believe that attitude can change your life.
S5: You're listening to the Building Relationships podcast. Find out more
S5: about Gary when he might be coming to your area.
S5: Take the love language assessment and much more at Building
S5: Relationships us. You'll also find today's featured resource there, the
S5: book by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden, the do it
S5: yourself Guide to Building a Family that lasts 12 tools
S5: for improving your home Life. Again, go to Building Relationships us.
S6: This is our Dear Gary broadcast for March and we
S6: would love to hear from you. If you have a
S6: question or maybe a follow up to something that you've
S6: heard today on the program, call the number 1866424 Gary
S6: and leave a message. We may use your question here
S6: on the program. Call 1-866-424-4279. This is a really difficult one. Gary,
S6: listen to the heart of this mom who called us recently.
S3: Doctor Gary. I've been listening to your podcast since. Over
S3: a year ago. My son left the house when he
S3: turned 18. It was so painful. He has so much anger. Hateful,
S3: bitter in his heart. We lost his dad 2015, so
S3: he was only 11 years old. As a single mother,
S3: I struggled. I had so much anger. I was angry,
S3: the situation. I was working full time, back to school,
S3: full time, pursuing my, um, my master's degree. It was really,
S3: really hard time for all of us. I didn't realize
S3: how much trauma he had in his heart. And when
S3: he's 18, she just decide not to speak to me again.
S3: No matter what I do, send him letters telling him
S3: a story, what I've done. And he just kept reliving
S3: a traumatized moment in the past. A lot of background.
S3: I'm from another country. There were some culture differences. Um,
S3: not sure he really understood my culture, but he took
S3: as offensive as a minority mom, single mother, and I had.
S3: Traumatized on my end trying to counseling, but I found God.
S3: Only God can heal my heart. But anyhow, he is
S3: not speaking to me at all. All he does is
S3: saying horrible things about me when I return to the home,
S3: no matter what we do. He's in college now. He
S3: wants to military so he can pay for his college. Um,
S3: as of now, I really want to help him, but
S3: I don't really know I should. Um. I just don't
S3: know what to do. Um, I pray every day. I
S3: told the God. I'm sorry, but I just want some hope.
S3: Sorry about that. Uh, thank you for all you do.
S3: I have read a book less than your podcast. Uh,
S3: all the time. Um. I know you're awesome, counselor and pastor.
S3: Just pray for us. Thank you.
S7: Well, Chris, your heart has to go out to this. Mom.
S7: She's recognizing that some of her behavior, or at least
S7: her behavior, was a part of what caused her son, Origen,
S7: to have an angry attitude toward her. The biblical story
S7: that comes to my mind when I hear this mother
S7: is the story of the prodigal son, who also left
S7: his his father and his family and ask his father
S7: to go ahead and give me my inheritance now. And
S7: his father did, and he wasted all that his father
S7: had given him, ended up in the hog pan, and
S7: not only feeding the pigs, but also eating some of
S7: the things that the pigs were eating. And finally he
S7: decided he would go home and asked his father just
S7: to give him a job on the farm. It's always
S7: been interesting to me that father did not run after him.
S7: He did not go try to find him and make
S7: him do right. He kept the farm going. He kept
S7: growing himself so that when the son came home, there
S7: was a place to come home to. So in this situation,
S7: I think I understand your hurt, your pain, because you
S7: see that you are at least partially responsible for his anger.
S7: But don't take the whole blame of that, because yes,
S7: you may have impacted him in a negative way and
S7: that may be the source of some of his anger,
S7: but we're responsible for handling our own anger. And so
S7: you've repented of your anger and the way you've treated him,
S7: and God has forgiven you. If you've asked him, God
S7: has forgiven you. It's your son that's not forgiving you,
S7: but you can't make somebody forgive you. Forgiveness is a choice.
S7: We can apologize, but we can't make them respond in forgiveness.
S7: God has to bring him to the place where he's
S7: willing to forgive you, and then also willing to confess
S7: his own failures in being angry with you. So I
S7: think prayer is obviously one of God's methods, and I'm
S7: sure you have been praying for him and I will.
S7: I would encourage you to continue praying for him. I
S7: think you seeing a counselor, I think you are seeing
S7: a counselor. Perhaps you were, but reaching out to somebody,
S7: a counselor, a pastor, a close friend, somebody who can
S7: help you process your own emotions. Uh, because God doesn't
S7: want you to live the next ten years of your
S7: life broken hearted and being not able to function, not
S7: able to walk with God and use your talents to
S7: help other people. God doesn't want that. He wants you
S7: to live the life he has planned for you. Uh,
S7: you can't control your son, and God's not going to
S7: make your son do right and come back. But God
S7: wants to help you work through your pain and your
S7: hurt and know that God loves you. God is forgiven
S7: you and what you want to do now is to
S7: walk closely with God. Find people that you can be
S7: involved with in a church and a small group, a family, uh,
S7: in the church, and walk together with God to discover
S7: things you can do now to minister to other people
S7: if your son ever returns, if God works in his
S7: heart and he returns, you're going to stand there with
S7: open arms and be ready to receive him, just like
S7: the father of the prodigal son did in the Bible.
S7: So those are my thoughts. I'm empathetic with where you are,
S7: but I do pray and hope that you will continue
S7: to reach out for help in processing those emotions so
S7: that you can live your life. Don't allow your son's
S7: behavior to control your behavior.
S6: What great advice. That's not to Gary Chapman. This is
S6: building relationships. You'll find us online building relationships with us.
S6: Here's a call from a listener in Europe, Gary. And
S6: first let me say his English is fantastic. Unfortunately, his
S6: question is kind of a desperate situation. Here's his call.
S9: Hi, Gary. Um, thank.
S13: You for the opportunity to explain my situation to you
S13: and to ask you a question. My wife moved out
S13: completely unexpectedly for me six weeks ago. Up to this point,
S13: she has never told me that she was unhappy or
S13: questioned our marriage. Um, she now tells me she has
S13: negative feelings for me and that her love has grown cold.
S13: I recognize the mistakes I've made, and I'm willing to
S13: do anything to save our marriage. But now she's asking
S13: for distance. We only see each other when we hand
S13: our 16 month old daughter over to each other. Our
S13: conversation is currently limited to purely organizational, uh matters. She
S13: refuses marriage counseling or therapy and meditation. She said she
S13: didn't know if we ever be, uh, together again. How
S13: am I supposed to show her my love and fill
S13: her love tank when she wants distance and no relationship?
S13: What should I do if this, um, condition persists for
S13: weeks and months? I love her more than anything. I
S13: see my mistakes. I'm willing to work on them. And
S13: I want to save our marriage. It would be so
S13: great if you could help me. Thank you very much. Goodbye.
S7: I think any time a situation like this arises where
S7: a spouse leaves and really had never brought up, apparently
S7: never brought up the fact that they were very displeased
S7: in the marriage. Uh, it hits the other person and
S7: is a tremendous shock to them emotionally. I think the
S7: fact that he really wants to work on the marriage,
S7: he really is willing to work on the marriage. He
S7: is willing to to apologize for his failures. And he
S7: recognizes that there are failures. All of that is positive.
S7: I think, however, we cannot make a person come back
S7: to us immediately just because we apologize to them. Forgiveness
S7: is a choice and sometimes the hurt has been deep.
S7: The hurt has gone on for so long that they
S7: have a hard time even thinking about forgiving and coming
S7: back and trying to work on the marriage. Now, here's
S7: one other question I would ask if I were able
S7: to talk with you personally. And that is, is she
S7: involved in a relationship with someone else? Many times when
S7: a person leaves their spouse and says to them, I
S7: don't love you anymore. And so I'm moving out. They
S7: are already involved with someone else. I'm not saying this
S7: is true in your case, I'm just saying. Often that
S7: is the case. If that's the case, it's a much
S7: more serious problem. Because if she has loved feelings for
S7: somebody else and they're being kind to her, she's comparing
S7: that to the relationship she had with you. It will
S7: be even more difficult for her to say no to
S7: the relationship she's now in. I think if that's the case,
S7: you best realize if there's going to be any hope
S7: for our marriage, I will have to wait until either
S7: she breaks up with the other person, or he breaks
S7: up with her, and then she comes back crying because
S7: of her broken heart. And that happens. That happens sometimes.
S7: The person she's involved with, if she is involved, will
S7: break up with her and then she's broken hearted. Then
S7: she's more likely to come back and and be willing
S7: to work on the marriage. At any rate, I think
S7: you have to give her time. We cannot make a
S7: person forgive us, and we have to give her time
S7: to work through her emotions. I would say the best
S7: thing you can do is be kind to her when
S7: you do have contact with her. You mentioned when you
S7: pass the baby to her back and forth you have.
S7: You just be kind to her. Don't preach to her. Don't.
S7: Don't be negative to her. Tell her that you are
S7: praying for that. You are empathetic with her feelings. You
S7: can understand how hurt she is and you and that
S7: you love her. No matter what happens, you love her.
S7: So I think be kind to her in whatever contact
S7: you do have with her rather than being negative. If
S7: you criticize her for what she's doing, put her down.
S7: She's just going to stay away because, you know, you're
S7: just she's saying, that's what I would have to live
S7: with if I came back. All your all your critical comments. So.
S7: God can change hearts. And I think praying that God
S7: would bring someone into her life or some situation to
S7: her life that would cause her to think differently. A
S7: God is the only one that can do that. You
S7: cannot change her heart. You cannot change your mind. God can.
S7: So you pray and you seek to develop your walk
S7: with God. In the meantime, if you are not involved
S7: in a church and a Christian fellowship, I would encourage
S7: you to get involved and to build some friendships and
S7: Christian with some Christian brothers and let them walk with
S7: you through this pain. Don't don't try to carry the
S7: load alone. Those would be my thoughts.
S6: I'm going to call an audible here on the program
S6: today and not take any more calls. But I want
S6: to take you to Nashville because Doctor Gary Chapman and
S6: the book The Five Love Languages, they were honored at
S6: the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and there were a number
S6: of people that were in attendance and Gary was handed
S6: an award right in front of the a river that
S6: was going through there. And I wanted to get my
S6: fishing pole out and fish for those catfish, those that
S6: were swimming back there. But Gary, you spoke to the
S6: folks that were assembled there and you kind of walked
S6: us through what God had done in and through you.
S6: And I remembered this quote by Soren Kierkegaard. I haven't
S6: read a whole lot that he has written, but I
S6: remember this quote life can only be understood backwards, but
S6: it must be lived forwards. So let me take you
S6: down by the riverside. This is what Doctor Gary Chapman
S6: said in just about three minutes of his message to
S6: the people there.
S7: We will never understand everything that God does in our lives.
S7: One of those was that when I went to Moody
S7: Bible Institute, I was planning to be a pastor. So
S7: I took the pastor's course because I only knew there
S7: was two things you could do full time for God
S7: be a pastor or be a missionary. And I thought, well,
S7: missionaries work in the jungle. I don't like snakes, so
S7: I can't do that. So I took the pastor's course,
S7: but by the time I finished Moody Bible Institute, I
S7: really sense God wanted me to be a missionary. So
S7: when I went to Wheaton College to get my degree,
S7: I majored in cultural anthropology, which is a wonderful background
S7: for serving in other countries as well as time went on. Uh,
S7: we talked to the mission board because I was interested
S7: in teaching nationals so they could reach their country for God.
S7: And the mission board said, well, that would likely be
S7: in a college or a seminary. So you really need
S7: to be nice if you had the PhD degree. Well,
S7: I don't even know that I knew what a PhD
S7: degree was when they said that. But I thought, well,
S7: you know, we only got one child, so let's just
S7: go back to seminary and get the PhD. So we
S7: spent three years and got the PhD, and then we
S7: were turned down by the mission board because of my
S7: wife's health. They said, we can't send her to Africa.
S7: She just helped me handle it. So here I am.
S7: You can imagine how she felt. And she actually verbalized that.
S7: She said, you know, I just feel like I'm keeping
S7: you from going to the mission field. Well, it breaks
S7: my heart to hear her, you know, taking that kind
S7: of responsibility. And we really had a hard time wrestling
S7: with that, you know, asking, God, why don't you lead
S7: us this direction? And now the door is closed. And
S7: so we went through all of that and had a
S7: really hard time figuring that out. But I'm like, I'll
S7: make the next 50, 40, 50 years fast. But, uh,
S7: he ended up teaching at a college here, a little
S7: college in North Carolina for three years, and then going
S7: to work at the church where I do now, where
S7: I have been all these years for over 50 years now, uh,
S7: and started a college ministry, uh, Wake Forest University's there.
S7: We started Bible studies on campus and had open house
S7: at our house for ten years, every Friday night for
S7: college students, etc., etc.. Well, staying on that staff and
S7: kind of being pushed into counseling and writing the books. Uh,
S7: when the book started being translated in other countries, which really,
S7: really surprised me with my anthropology background, that these things
S7: would transfer to other cultures. And many, many, many of
S7: my books have done that now. I was in Hungary
S7: before the pandemic. They had translated 35 of my books
S7: in Hungarian, and they always send us copies and we
S7: open them up and we pray for the countries and
S7: for the book. And one night I was opening up
S7: a box of books, and I looked on the couch
S7: and my wife was crying, and I said, what's wrong, honey?
S7: And she said, nothing's wrong. I just remember, we want
S7: to be missionaries. And now your books are all over
S7: the world. And I cried and I finally was able
S7: to say, okay, God, I get it. I didn't get
S7: it all these years, but I got it now. So
S7: God often surprises us by what he does in our lives.
S7: And I'm sure many of you have experienced that as well.
S6: I wanted to play that for somebody listening today, Gary,
S6: who can't make heads or tails out of what God
S6: is doing right now because you you may not understand
S6: it even years down the road what this is. But
S6: sometimes he gives you a little glimpse, doesn't he?
S7: You're right, Chris, and I think it's important that we
S7: understand that there are things that will happen in our
S7: lives that we will not understand, and we will even
S7: question God, but always run to God and not away
S7: from God in those situations. You know, there's a song
S7: that says when you can't see God's hand. Trust his heart.
S7: His heart is good. His heart loves us. His heart
S7: has good plans for us, and we may not see
S7: them at the moment, and we may not even understand
S7: them here on this earth. You know, for example, my
S7: sister died at the age of 58 after an eight
S7: year battle with cancer, and here I am still going.
S7: All these years. I still understand that you know that
S7: will wait till heaven. Some things. However, God lets us
S7: see in the earth why certain things happen. So we
S7: have to trust God's heart because we know he's a
S7: good God.
S6: I'm so glad I got to see you. Folks don't
S6: know when we do this program. You're in North Carolina.
S6: I'm in Arizona. Steve's in Chicago. We don't see each other.
S6: Even though it feels like, you know, I'm sitting there
S6: right next to you. But we were able to to
S6: shake hands and hug each other's neck where we.
S7: We we were. And it was a great time, Chris.
S7: I really, really enjoyed that and saw a lot of
S7: people from a lot of countries. I remember a young
S7: lady was there from Venezuela, and she told me how
S7: much the love language book had meant to her, and
S7: she said to me, you have no idea how that
S7: love language book has impacted Venezuela. She said it is
S7: all over the country. People are reading that book, so
S7: you know God knows what he's doing. And once in
S7: a while he lets us in on it.
S14: Yes he does.
S6: Oh, aren't you glad? Okay, so before we conclude, let
S6: me give you the phone number. You want to respond?
S6: Do you have a question for Doctor Chapman? A comment
S6: 1866424 Gary 1-866-424-4279. We'd love to hear from you, and
S6: don't forget to check out our featured resource, the book
S6: by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden, the DIY Guide to
S6: Building a Family That Lasts. Just go to building relationships
S6: with us again, building relationships with us.
S7: And next week. How do you find unity in the
S7: church when there is so much disunity here?
S5: A great conversation with pastor and author of Harmony Pierre
S5: in One week. Before we go, let me thank our
S5: production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing with special thanks
S5: to Chris Siegert. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is
S5: a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association with
S5: Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.