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S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl

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S1: and crew. Come as you are an experienced guide. Overcome

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S1: what seems impossible and live as you never imagined. Start

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S1: your morning with a laugh.

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S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not

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S2: tricks but tips and tricks.

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S3: Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and tricks.

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S1: Delivering the truth daily.

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S4: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up

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S4: with achievement in good works. But God wasn't impressed by that,

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S4: even if other people were.

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S2: The gospel changes everything.

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S5: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement

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S5: just falling to the ground.

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S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl

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S1: and Crew. I want to preface this by.

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S6: Saying I am not a great prognosticator on sports, as

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S6: a general rule at all. Okay, mainly because I vote

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S6: with my heart. So I'm not very good at that.

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S6: But I will say mid-season I picked and I even

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S6: talked to one of the players on Gonzaga. His dad,

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S6: I said, this is a national championship team. When Michigan

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S6: beat Gonzaga by 40 points mid-season.

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S7: Oh man. Oh yeah, they were.

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S6: So I didn't even watch any of these games like

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S6: last night. I didn't see.

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S2: It. I didn't realize it was on. I thought it was.

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S6: Well, there you go. It's hard to see it when

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S6: you don't even know it's on. But but I'm telling

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S6: you man, that Michigan team, when I saw him mid-season,

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S6: I'm like, wow. And you know what makes him so good?

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S6: And Ali appreciates this because my goodness, her hubs is

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S6: with the Bulls as one of the coaches. Um ball

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S6: movement is everything isn't it Ali.

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S4: Oh it's I mean it's so important from the from

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S4: the youngest to the oldest. When you have a team

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S4: that really shares the ball and gets a lot of

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S4: people involved, that's always going to be a dangerous team,

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S4: more so than a team that relies heavily just on

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S4: on one person to get going.

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S6: I mean, you got to have shooters for sure, but

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S6: you can percentages go spread the wealth.

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S4: Move that ball around. It was I saw a chunk

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S4: of the game. So congratulations to Michigan our Michigan listeners.

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S4: You get the national championship in your home state. I

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S4: was I was pumped I had. I'm a big Illinois

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S4: fan living. I grew up in Champaign-Urbana right near the

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S4: campus of University of Illinois. So fighting a line I

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S4: went down in the Final Four.

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S6: Yeah.

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S4: So I was bummed about that. So I didn't really

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S4: feel like I had a dog in the fight for

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S4: the national championship. But I guess you go Big Ten.

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S4: I'll take a Big Ten team to win.

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S2: That's funny that, you know, it's you're like, well, you know,

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S2: Inter-conference pride because sure.

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S4: Why not?

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S2: Uh, my, my mom's side of the family are Ohio

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S2: State fans, and I can't. My cousin's literally won't say

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S2: the word Michigan.

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S4: Oh my.

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S2: They call it they call it the M word. And

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S2: and if we're here in Chicago, you know, we took

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S2: him downtown and I said, I said, hey, what street

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S2: are we walking on? They said Ichigan Street. They're like,

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S2: we're not using.

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S4: Not even saying Michigan Ave, which is goodness.

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S2: Okay, so that's your conference ID for every school.

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S4: That's that's taking it to another level.

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S7: Oh yeah. Yeah. But congrats Michigan, their second title since

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S7: the 1980s, late 1980s.

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S6: There you go. Yeah. Okay. Uh, they were just about

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S6: to go around the dark side of the moon for

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S6: this space travel in the history of the world. And

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S6: before they went around, oh, my goodness, one of these

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S6: young men, I can call him that because I know

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S6: he's younger than me. One of these young men on

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S6: the Artemis two had a few words to share. Young Turner,

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S6: you got it teed up.

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S2: I got it. Let's do it.

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S8: The mysteries of the cosmos. I would like to remind

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S8: you of one of the most important mysteries there on earth.

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S8: And that's love. Christ said in response to what was

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S8: the greatest command that it was to love God with

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S8: all that you are. And he also, being a great teacher, said,

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S8: the second is equal to it, and that is to

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S8: love your neighbor as yourself. And so as we prepare

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S8: to go out of radio communication, we're still to feel

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S8: your love from earth. And to all of you down

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S8: there on earth and around earth, we love you from

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S8: the moon.

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S6: Man, I gotta tell you, I know he's got a name.

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S6: But for me now on he is space, Rev. Space

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S6: he is space Rev. What's his real name? Young Thunder.

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S2: Victor Glover.

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S6: Victor Glover, all in Jesus follower. Glover.

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S4: I love that NASA astronaut Artemis two pilot with his

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S4: Christian faith.

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S3: Open, I'll say open.

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S6: He's quoting from.

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S3: Mark.

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S6: 1230.

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S2: Well, you know what? It is a great opportunity for

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S2: him to take that time and say something because the

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S2: whole world is listening, guys.

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S6: It's just huge.

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S2: And he knows that. He knows the whole world is listening.

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S2: So he says, I'm going to take my my shot

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S2: and give the gospel. Give, give. Jesus Christ proclaimed.

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S6: There's in the midst of all this craziness. I mean,

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S6: you've got this downed weapons officer, this colonel that was rescued,

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S6: by the way, one of the most. I mean, they're

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S6: saying it's it rivals any kind of a rescue or

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S6: special ops in the history of warfare to get this

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S6: guy plucked. It was a big deal. I mean, he

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S6: was injured.

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S2: Injured.

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S6: For 48 hours, bleeding. He had to climb a 7000

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S6: foot summit, hide in a crevice while his beacon sending

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S6: out location. It's just crazy. He said God is good.

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S6: God is good. And they grabbed him off that mountain.

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S6: Oh my goodness. So these little smatterings of all these things.

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S6: But then you got an astronaut saying, hey, by the way,

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S6: the great commandment, the greatest of all. Here it is, guys.

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S6: It's just beautiful, man. Okay, coming up here in a minute.

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S6: I had a chance to sit down with who I

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S6: talk about, man. Myth, legend. Holy cow.

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S4: We know that's that's your go to.

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S6: Oh my goodness, this guy Abdu Murray who buckle up,

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S6: get a swig of water. Grab a little cup of

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S6: coffee too.

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S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.

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S6: This whole week we're tackling Hope rising. And it's this

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S6: great reality that hope is not a strategy. It's not

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S6: a whim. It's not something we stumble upon. It's a person.

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S6: His name is Jesus. But that hope continues to grow

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S6: as we've been looking in Romans five. Today, even through

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S6: suffering which produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces. Yes,

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S6: hope and hope will not put us to shame. Abdu

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S6: Murray with us right now, speaker, author, attorney who specializes

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S6: in addressing issues where religious faith and emerging cultural trends

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S6: intersect and they collide. Abdu, it's so good to have

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S6: you with us, man. What I love about Romans five

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S6: is you've got this hope that is found in Christ.

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S6: When we fall to the ground like a kernel of

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S6: wheat and die to ourselves and receive him as Lord,

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S6: and then it springs up to this life. But Paul

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S6: is not ignorant of the fact that life's tough. Then

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S6: it's not easy. I wish it was one and done right. Abdu.

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S9: Yeah, yeah, I wish it was. But unfortunately there's a lot.

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S9: And then we're eventually done. But until. Until then. Until then,

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S9: there's a lot to go through.

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S6: Your story is one of extraordinary grace and almost surprising

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S6: grace to some who wonder, can God save? Fill in

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S6: the blank. A wayward kid, whatever. A friend and neighbor.

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S6: And I want us to begin way back where you

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S6: were raised in Islam. I mean, that was your guiding

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S6: truth at some level. What level was that and what

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S6: led you on this quest to find Jesus?

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S9: Yeah, so I was pretty serious about it. I was

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S9: raised to believe that Islam was true, and everything else

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S9: that contradicted it was false. And so I was sort

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S9: of an evangelist for Islam from an early age. I

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S9: was raised in the Metro Detroit area. We have lots

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S9: and lots of Muslims here, and the area I grew

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S9: up in was sort of not a lot of Muslims, actually.

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S9: When we moved out from the area I grew up in,

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S9: and so I encountered Christians and I wanted them to

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S9: become Muslims. But along the way, there were some Christians

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S9: who not only could respond to the objections I was

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S9: giving them, but actually had a couple of objections of

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S9: their own for me to have to wrestle with as well.

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S9: So that really began a journey where I was confident

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S9: Islam would win. But what's interesting is, is that it

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S9: was the Bible. As I was reading it to try

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S9: to find flaws in it, the Bible itself, which actually

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S9: began to show itself to be this credible document, which

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S9: wasn't just giving me, you know, platitudes and ideas about

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S9: good living and how you can live with this false hope,

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S9: but real substantive hope and the beauty of the language

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S9: and the reality of what it was saying was being

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S9: backed up by the history I was looking into. By

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S9: the philosophy I was studying with, the theology I was studying,

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S9: and I was going into what al Gore would call

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S9: An Inconvenient Truth is.

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S3: That.

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S9: Is that the truth of the Bible was becoming more

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S9: and more pungent, more and more salient in my life,

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S9: and it was contradicting that of Islam. Now, it took

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S9: me nine years to get there. I found all the

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S9: answers I needed sufficient to become a Christian within two years,

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S9: but it took me seven more years to wrestle with

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S9: the consequences of what that would mean. Because for Muslims

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S9: around the world, no matter what country they live in,

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S9: being a Muslim is a huge part of your identity.

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S9: Religious identity is in a subset of who you are.

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S9: It permeates everything about who you are, from friends to

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S9: family to education to work. Everything is a subset of that.

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S9: So becoming a Christian meant giving all of that up.

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S9: And that was a tough thing for me to do.

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S9: And so I wrestled with it because, as I've often said,

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S9: the truth is not hard to find, but it is

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S9: hard to accept.

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S6: Yeah, no, you're right. It's interesting because becoming a Christian,

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S6: being raised a Muslim is very akin to becoming a

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S6: Messianic Jew. I mean, you're leaving behind traditions, systems, inheritances.

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S6: There was risk of life and limb.

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S9: It's interesting you say that because one of the books

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S9: that was important to me during my journey was a

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S9: book by a messianic Jew whose daughter came home from

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S9: college and had become a Christian while he was Jewish

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S9: and rejecting Jesus as Messiah, he set out to debunk

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S9: her to try to get her back to what he

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S9: believed was true Judaism and his book, Betrayed by Stan Torsion.

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S9: The late Stan Torsion, was important to me because it

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S9: opened up my understanding that it wasn't that the truth

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S9: was hard to know. It was that it was hard

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S9: to embrace. And so it's so funny you bring that up,

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S9: because that was a big part of my coming to faith.

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S6: What's the name of that book, again.

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S9: Called Betrayed by Stan Telchin T e l c h

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S9: I n. Very short book, but a really good one.

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S6: Yeah. When I did that, because our listeners are keen

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S6: to what's being said here and they're going to want

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S6: to know. Okay. So I got asked a question, I

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S6: made a social media post and one came back and

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S6: a guy just genuinely said, he said, I got no

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S6: bone to pick with you, but I just want to

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S6: know what sets Christianity apart from all the other world religions.

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S6: And I appreciated the question. I gave him a short,

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S6: concise one, and I'm wondering if this was if this

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S6: was anything to do with your story. I simply said,

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S6: With biblical Christianity, Christ is at the center. He's done

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S6: the work. We don't have to. He did the work

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S6: with every other world, religion, a person. We are at

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S6: the center. We got to do the work to get

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S6: right with God. We know that's true. I mean, even

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S6: the religion of materialism, you got to do it. You

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S6: got to make it happen. How much did that weigh

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S6: in to your conversion and transformation in Christ at all?

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S9: It factored in quite a bit, actually, because one of

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S9: the things I had done was I was not just

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S9: studying Islam and Christianity, but I was studying every other

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S9: ism and schism. There was, you know, and what I

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S9: had come to see is that all religious systems are

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S9: only superficially similar and fundamentally different, actually fundamentally different. However,

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S9: they're all similar in one way, and it's the way

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S9: you nailed it is that what they tell you is,

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S9: is that through your effort, whether it's the religious works

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S9: you do or the karma you work off, or the

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S9: social things you contribute to, or education or resource redistribution,

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S9: whatever it is, we can eventually manufacture our own nirvana,

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S9: our own utopia. We can go into God's Paradise. Yes,

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S9: in certain religious systems, you need God's mercy. Islam is

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S9: big on mercy, but all of that is essentially earned

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S9: and which makes you the solution to your problem. What

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S9: is so unique, but also uniquely true about the Christian faith,

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S9: is that Jesus doesn't tell you what you want to hear.

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S9: Jesus tells you what you need to hear, and what

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S9: you need to hear is that you cannot be the

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S9: solution because you are in fact, the problem. And so

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S9: we need someone who's not us to save us from us.

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S9: And so he says that he says two things. He says,

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S9: you are uniquely and beautifully and transcendently made in the

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S9: image of God, which makes us inherently valuable, but we've

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S9: strayed far from that. Do I need any more evidence

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S9: than my own life and my own thought life, and

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S9: my own emotions and my own envy? To know that

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S9: I know that. Which means that I can't be the solution.

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S9: And so Christianity is utterly realistic about this. How I

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S9: look at it, Carl, is that if an ancient book

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S9: pinpoints the human condition with unparalleled accuracy, and its accuracy

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S9: is sustained over the course of millennia, it is unlikely

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S9: to be crafted by a handful of shepherds and some fishermen.

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S9: But if it sustains itself the way the Bible has,

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S9: then maybe those shepherds and fishermen were inspired by the

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S9: God who created everything.

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S6: My goodness, Abdu Murray, our guest right now, we're going

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S6: to have a link coming up here in a moment.

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S6: In fact, I'm going to give it right now. Text embrace.

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S6: If you can't stick around, I get it. Text embrace

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S6: to 800 555 7898. You are going to get linked

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S6: up with one of the greatest apologists that God has

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S6: walking this planet right now and no joking. Text the

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S6: word embrace to (800) 555-7898. Coming up. So the warning in

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S6: Galatia by Paul was, what are you doing? What in

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S6: the world are you doing? Why have you begun in

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S6: the spirit? Now you're trying to work it out in

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S6: the flesh. I'm going to talk about communicating that utter

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S6: dependence on God and how we do that for the

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S6: world around us, to provide the hope that we all need.

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S6: And even speaking truth back to us who are born

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S6: again in Christ Jesus. More with Abdu Murray straight ahead.

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S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl

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S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.

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S6: My guest right now, Abdu Murray. Guys, speaker, author, attorney

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S6: who specializes in addressing issues where religious faith, emerging culture,

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S6: and these trends intersect and collide. We got to boil

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S6: it right down to the bottom here. 2000 years ago.

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S6: The church in Galatia, Abdulx, they were trucking on the

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S6: right path, man. It was all Christ and Him crucified.

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S6: And it was him. Him. He started it. He's going

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S6: to complete it. I know that was written to Philippians,

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S6: but they would have initially believed that because we all

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S6: do when we're born again. Oh, Abdu, how do we

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S6: get off on this thing that happened to Galatia? They

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S6: began to work out in the flesh what was begun

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S6: in the spirit. Why do we so tend to go there?

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S6: And you, as an apologist, what do you say to

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S6: get us back and keep us back dependent on Christ?

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S9: Well, I'll take the apologist part first, because the important

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S9: thing here is to understand that every single time that

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S9: we resort back to our own righteousness and our own

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S9: works to try to justify ourselves before God, or rather,

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S9: to go back to Adam's sin and want to become God,

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S9: is proof that the Bible has been right all along.

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S9: Every single time we fall into This is part of

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S9: the sinful condition we find ourselves in. And you see

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S9: throughout the scriptures in First John, the whole thing, talking

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S9: to believers, he keeps on saying, if we say we

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S9: have no sin, we lie. We have to constantly remind

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S9: ourselves that we're being sanctified over time, but we are

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S9: not there yet, and we're becoming more and more like Jesus.

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S9: But there is this ever present sort of like pull.

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S9: Paul talks about it in Romans seven and over and

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S9: over again, where there's this pull where we want to

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S9: justify ourselves by our works and we want to do

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S9: certain things, but then we disappoint ourselves over and over again.

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S9: And the church of Galatia, starting off white hot and

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S9: really on fire, ends up having to ignore they've ignored

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S9: that old nature, which sort of closets way back and

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S9: tries to get at us. And so we we ignore

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S9: that to our peril. So I think what we need

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S9: to do is pay attention to those scriptures. And what's

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S9: interesting is Paul actually says, is that if we walk

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S9: in step with the spirit, we will not gratify the desires.

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S3: Of the flesh.

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S6: By the way, that's one of the most astounding is

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S6: not a strong enough word promises in all of scripture.

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S9: Oh yeah. Absolutely. But it's important to understand the depth

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S9: of the promise because it says, walk in the spirit

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S9: and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

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S9: Notice what he doesn't say. What he doesn't say is

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S9: you will not have. Because what is happening is that

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S9: we get disappointed because we still wrestle with the temptations,

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S9: and we still wrestle with our need to justify ourselves.

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S9: And the Bible is honest about that. And it says

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S9: when you become a Christian, you're not going to have

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S9: suddenly all of your desires and the earth is not

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S9: going to the world is not going to tempt you anymore.

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S9: That's still going to happen. It's still going to happen.

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S9: And the Bible is honest about that. And it doesn't

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S9: give you a self-fulfillment piece. You're never going to you're

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S9: never going to be touched again kind of way. The

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S9: New Age thought does it tells you realistically. But if

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S9: we walk in step with the spirit and that spirit

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S9: is the important part, that's the whole point. Walk in

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S9: step with the spirit, not in step with your flesh.

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S9: You will still feel the pull of the flesh, but

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S9: you won't gratify the desires of the flesh. And of course,

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S9: in communion with each other as a church, both with

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S9: a capital C and a little C, we can help

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S9: each other through this. That's why we confess our sins

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S9: to one another, that we may be healed. The Bible

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S9: and this is the apologist in me. The Bible has this.

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S9: It's this corpus of material that all of it intersects

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S9: with each other in beautiful, interlocking ways, that it almost

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S9: like what scientists call irreducibly complex. Yes, it's so complex,

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S9: but you can't take out any one part of it

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S9: because if you take out one part of it, the

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S9: whole thing falls apart. Not because it's fragile, but because

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S9: it's robust and it's so beautifully interlocking.

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S6: I was just going to ask you, Abdu Murray, our

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S6: guest right now. I was just going to ask you,

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S6: what's the overarching hope rising from the Scripture as compared

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S6: to the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita, or your instruction

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S6: manual on how to be a materialist, which is basically

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S6: the American dream? What is the overarching, uh, hope rising

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S6: from the scripture that absolutely crushes these other worldviews.

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S9: It gives the believer that which those worldviews only give

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S9: a pale shadow of. When you look at them and

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S9: they say, we rely on God and we, you know,

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S9: and Muslims would say that Hindus, certain versions of Hindus

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S9: would say that and all these things. But ultimately there

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S9: is this sense in which we can, through our efforts,

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S9: please God in a way that is salvific and we

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S9: can have salvation that way. What the Bible says is

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S9: not that we are saved by our good works, but

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S9: saved unto good works. And I'll give this one little

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S9: snippet from my background as a Muslim. There is the

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S9: Imam Ali was considered one of the greatest imams in

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S9: the history of Islam. He was Muhammad's son in law

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S9: and his cousin and one of the first male believers

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S9: in Islam. And he wrote a series of sermons. Now

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S9: listen to this. He says, among believers there are three.

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S9: There are those who worship God to attain his heaven.

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S9: That is the worship of the merchant. There are those

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S9: who worship God to avoid his hell. That is the

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S9: worship of the slave. But there are those who worship

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S9: God out of gratitude. That is the worship of the

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S9: free and the noble. What's interesting is only in the

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S9: Christian faith can.

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S3: You do the.

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S9: Same. Exactly, because God has done it for you. So

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S9: you're not trying to get heaven. It's already been secured.

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S9: You're not trying to avoid hell. It's already been avoided

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S9: for you. You can worship out of freedom and nobility,

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S9: solely out of gratitude, and then all your good works

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S9: flow from that. That's the hope that's rising. What other

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S9: worldviews wish were true is only and actually true in

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S9: the Bible.

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S6: Who Abdou. God is a good God to give you

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S6: life and to impart it to us through your sharing here. Oh,

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S6: this is great. Abdu Murray again, text the word embrace.

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S6: Embrace one word to 800 555 7898, you're going to

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S6: get linked to his website, you're going to get apologetic hits,

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S6: you're going to get shorts, you're going to get blogs,

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S6: you're going to get books. You're going to get all

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S6: the resources you need. Text embrace to 800 555 7898.

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S1: It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

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S6: I don't know if there's a better apologist out there

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S6: right now. Abdu Murray has got to be top of

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S6: the heap.

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S2: He's incredible.

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S6: I mean, his perspective having been raised, uh, really defending

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S6: Islam and spending nine years trying to convince others of

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S6: it and then really wrestling with the texts in a

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S6: way that I've never heard a man. So pin this

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S6: thing down.

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S4: Oh, and I mean, what caught my ear is when

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S4: he said that it took about two years into this

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S4: nine year search that he was on, it was enough

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S4: evidence in his mind. He knew that that it was true,

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S4: and that the last seven years, it took seven years

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S4: to wrestle down what he knew would be the cost

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S4: to convert to Christianity. Giving up so much of what

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S4: had been his identity that that was fascinating to me.

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S6: Yeah. What a what a guy. I mean, I just

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S6: can't say this enough, guys. If you want to get

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S6: linked up with an apologist who is being so mightily

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S6: used of God for such a time as this, you

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S6: got to get this link. And I'm I'm saying that

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S6: to people because we've had hundreds. They're just flying out

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S6: the door right now. But just text the word embrace

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S6: to (800) 555-7898. Embrace to 800 555 7898. I know I

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S6: go on and on about this guy, but my goodness,

447
00:23:04,630 --> 00:23:06,030
S6: God is using him. Ali.

448
00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:11,190
S4: I just his perspective is, I think really a helpful

449
00:23:11,190 --> 00:23:13,389
S4: one too. He's a good one to share with people

450
00:23:13,390 --> 00:23:16,619
S4: in your life who who have these kind of questions,

451
00:23:16,619 --> 00:23:21,340
S4: maybe consider themselves an intellectual and come at it from

452
00:23:21,340 --> 00:23:24,820
S4: a standpoint of, I'm going to need more evidence to

453
00:23:24,859 --> 00:23:28,260
S4: convince me sometimes that that can be a smokescreen. But

454
00:23:28,260 --> 00:23:31,460
S4: for those who genuinely, honestly have questions, that they're just

455
00:23:31,460 --> 00:23:34,419
S4: looking for somebody who is willing to engage with the

456
00:23:34,420 --> 00:23:37,300
S4: tough issues, I think he's he's one of the best.

457
00:23:37,340 --> 00:23:40,740
S6: Yeah, truly. Okay, we're going to open up phone lines

458
00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:42,580
S6: and you might be saying, well, what do you want

459
00:23:42,619 --> 00:23:43,780
S6: us to talk about?

460
00:23:44,420 --> 00:23:45,939
S4: What do you want us to talk about?

461
00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:48,060
S6: I got I got an idea here flows out of

462
00:23:48,060 --> 00:23:50,619
S6: one of the most epic passages on Hope. We're talking

463
00:23:50,619 --> 00:23:53,379
S6: Hope rising this week. It comes out of Romans five

464
00:23:53,420 --> 00:23:57,300
S6: one through five. Therefore, since we have been justified by faith,

465
00:23:57,940 --> 00:24:00,820
S6: we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

466
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:04,780
S6: Through him we also have obtained access by faith into

467
00:24:04,780 --> 00:24:08,060
S6: this grace in which we stand. And we rejoice in

468
00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:11,260
S6: hope of the glory of God. Now that's the first

469
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:14,139
S6: two verses, and that stands alone. It's like, yes, we

470
00:24:14,140 --> 00:24:16,619
S6: have hope. We've been regenerated by the power of the

471
00:24:16,619 --> 00:24:19,260
S6: Holy Spirit. We stand in this hope. But then Paul

472
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:23,260
S6: goes on, not only that, he writes, but we rejoice

473
00:24:23,260 --> 00:24:27,820
S6: in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance

474
00:24:27,820 --> 00:24:32,300
S6: produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not

475
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:36,540
S6: put us to shame. Here's the bookend of hope. When

476
00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:38,780
S6: we're born again, we have this great hope welling up

477
00:24:38,780 --> 00:24:42,740
S6: inside us, and then life hits us. So what Paul

478
00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:47,619
S6: is proposing here is this truth that we will have suffering,

479
00:24:47,619 --> 00:24:53,179
S6: but that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and

480
00:24:53,180 --> 00:24:57,140
S6: that character lets us look back with hope, with fresh eyes.

481
00:24:57,580 --> 00:25:00,100
S6: So we've got a question for you this morning.

482
00:25:00,140 --> 00:25:02,980
S4: We're asking you, as you consider this passage of Scripture

483
00:25:03,020 --> 00:25:06,540
S4: out of Romans five, what character did God produce in

484
00:25:06,580 --> 00:25:10,250
S4: you through suffering that gives you hope today? Think about it.

485
00:25:10,250 --> 00:25:13,770
S4: Think of maybe it was a period of trials or a.

486
00:25:13,810 --> 00:25:16,210
S4: You went through something really hard, but you can say

487
00:25:16,210 --> 00:25:20,810
S4: that God produced something in you, some character trait that

488
00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:26,209
S4: gives you hope. 805 55 7898 can you testify to

489
00:25:26,250 --> 00:25:30,090
S4: this today? 800 555 7898.

490
00:25:30,130 --> 00:25:35,370
S6: Yeah, give us a call. 800 555 7898.

491
00:25:36,130 --> 00:25:39,930
S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.

492
00:25:40,170 --> 00:25:44,010
S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on

493
00:25:44,050 --> 00:25:45,090
S1: Moody Radio.

494
00:25:45,810 --> 00:25:50,050
S6: You know, there's inevitably going to be challenges suffering, trials

495
00:25:50,050 --> 00:25:51,970
S6: that we're going to go through. But the promise from

496
00:25:51,970 --> 00:25:55,210
S6: Romans five is that there's a hope that's produced because

497
00:25:55,250 --> 00:25:59,330
S6: through it we persevere. And out of that perseverance, character

498
00:25:59,369 --> 00:26:02,170
S6: is formed in us. It's a great promise. And you're

499
00:26:02,170 --> 00:26:06,530
S6: going to testify to it. 800 555 7898. Give us

500
00:26:06,530 --> 00:26:07,890
S6: a call. Let's go to the phone lines here.

501
00:26:08,010 --> 00:26:11,930
S4: Ali, let's go to Melanie calling in this morning from Yorkville, Illinois. Melanie,

502
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:15,290
S4: what's that character that got produced in you through suffering?

503
00:26:18,250 --> 00:26:20,409
S4: Melanie go ahead. You're on with Carl and crew.

504
00:26:21,650 --> 00:26:27,330
S10: Hi. Um, yeah. So my mother passed away at the

505
00:26:27,330 --> 00:26:31,490
S10: end of December. Um, and a month after that, my

506
00:26:31,490 --> 00:26:35,570
S10: father ended up passing away. Um, they were both believers

507
00:26:35,570 --> 00:26:38,330
S10: in Christ. So we know, you know, death. Where is

508
00:26:38,330 --> 00:26:42,330
S10: thy sting? Um, and now my husband is now in

509
00:26:42,330 --> 00:26:45,570
S10: the hospital. Um, so it's just kind of been one,

510
00:26:45,609 --> 00:26:48,050
S10: one thing after another. And it's only by the grace

511
00:26:48,050 --> 00:26:50,170
S10: of God that I'm able to just put one foot

512
00:26:50,170 --> 00:26:52,450
S10: in front of the other and people ask me how

513
00:26:52,450 --> 00:26:56,570
S10: I'm able to continue on. And, um, instead of just

514
00:26:56,570 --> 00:27:00,010
S10: being a complete mess and I'm able to witness to

515
00:27:00,050 --> 00:27:03,770
S10: so many people and tell them that it's, it's his grace,

516
00:27:04,330 --> 00:27:07,359
S10: it gives me the endurance and the perseverance to keep

517
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:08,400
S10: going in his name.

518
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,240
S6: It's beautiful. Melanie. Good word. Sister from Yorkville. Boom. That's

519
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,800
S6: why we call you the Boom crew. There's great lessons,

520
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,639
S6: aren't there, Ali? Great lessons in this.

521
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,520
S4: Yeah, and I mean, everyone who's called in has spoken

522
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,679
S4: to that process. I mean, this is not kind of

523
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,200
S4: a magic wand type of thing. I mean, there is

524
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,040
S4: that endurance, that character that's being formed. What about you?

525
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,440
S4: What character did God produce in you through suffering that

526
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,440
S4: gives you hope today? 805 55 7898 Philip calling in

527
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,520
S4: this morning from Aurora, Illinois. Good morning brother. Give us

528
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:43,160
S4: your story.

529
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,760
S11: Oh, good morning, my sister. Good morning crew. Steadfastness without

530
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,920
S11: a doubt steadfastness. Now we know that steadfastness is connected

531
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,239
S11: to patience and we shouldn't ask for patience, because, you know,

532
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,640
S11: God will put us in a situation where we have

533
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:02,000
S11: to be patient. You know, that's how God works. But

534
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,670
S11: I do know that those that season I walked through

535
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:07,989
S11: cancer and knowing that that it was inoperable, that they

536
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:12,470
S11: could only do chemo and radiation. And I knew that

537
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:15,150
S11: if it didn't work, that I'd be home with the Lord.

538
00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:18,350
S11: You know, that that, you know, you know the saying,

539
00:28:18,670 --> 00:28:22,429
S11: either he's Lord of all or he's not Lord at all.

540
00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:23,070
S6: Yeah.

541
00:28:23,109 --> 00:28:26,710
S11: And that taught me during that season that being steadfast

542
00:28:26,710 --> 00:28:30,070
S11: in my faith and really walking it out, putting shoe

543
00:28:30,070 --> 00:28:32,910
S11: leather to it, as we love to say, that's what

544
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:37,389
S11: brought that steadfastness into my heart, into a practical way

545
00:28:37,390 --> 00:28:39,910
S11: of living it out in front of my wife, my kids,

546
00:28:39,910 --> 00:28:44,990
S11: my grandkids, the men that I minister my ministry. It

547
00:28:45,030 --> 00:28:48,110
S11: proved to me that if you truly are in, you

548
00:28:48,150 --> 00:28:51,950
S11: are in. Because Christ is living in you and you

549
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:54,630
S11: are walking in faith, real faith.

550
00:28:55,110 --> 00:29:00,630
S6: You can't. It's it's boom, brother. It's hard to have us.

551
00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:04,590
S6: It's hard to have perseverance, and it's hard to have

552
00:29:04,590 --> 00:29:13,310
S6: steadfastness without trials, without challenges. But with them, it proves

553
00:29:13,310 --> 00:29:16,550
S6: the power of God. Good word. Philip, let's go back

554
00:29:16,550 --> 00:29:17,470
S6: to the phone lines. Ali.

555
00:29:17,510 --> 00:29:21,310
S4: Gabriela calling in from Lafayette, Georgia. What character did God

556
00:29:21,310 --> 00:29:24,630
S4: produce in you through suffering that gives you hope? Gabriela.

557
00:29:26,550 --> 00:29:30,110
S12: So when my daughter was two, she was diagnosed with

558
00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:35,190
S12: autism and she's about to be seven and she's still nonverbal,

559
00:29:35,190 --> 00:29:39,910
S12: and he's just taught me how to let go of

560
00:29:39,910 --> 00:29:43,950
S12: my expectations and lay them at his feet. And just

561
00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:46,150
S12: to look a little closer to see what he has

562
00:29:46,150 --> 00:29:46,790
S12: offered me.

563
00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:47,670
S3: Yeah.

564
00:29:47,710 --> 00:29:49,670
S6: Gabriela, what's your little girl's name?

565
00:29:51,070 --> 00:29:52,070
S12: Her name is Lelo.

566
00:29:52,430 --> 00:29:56,350
S6: Lelo. Father, in Jesus name. I'm praying over Lelo right now.

567
00:29:57,110 --> 00:29:59,070
S6: And Lord, you are a God of miracles. And we're

568
00:29:59,070 --> 00:30:01,620
S6: not presuming anything, but you say to ask. And so

569
00:30:01,620 --> 00:30:06,740
S6: I'm asking over a little precious Lilo, that you would, uh,

570
00:30:07,460 --> 00:30:11,260
S6: not only wrap your arms around her, but in. Continue

571
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:13,500
S6: to show the beauty of this little girl to her mama.

572
00:30:14,780 --> 00:30:17,540
S6: But Lord, we we do appeal to you that you

573
00:30:17,540 --> 00:30:22,700
S6: would break through here. And Lord, we're grateful for the

574
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:26,860
S6: things that you teach us in those desert seasons. Dark

575
00:30:26,860 --> 00:30:29,940
S6: night of the soul. You're a mighty God. And we

576
00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:32,780
S6: got a strong mama here. But we pray for Lilo

577
00:30:33,740 --> 00:30:36,180
S6: and we pray it in Jesus name. Amen.

578
00:30:36,220 --> 00:30:36,700
S4: Amen.

579
00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:43,220
S6: Taking your calls 800 555, 7898. What character did God

580
00:30:43,220 --> 00:30:47,300
S6: produce in you through suffering that gives you hope today?

581
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:51,300
S6: 800 555 7898.

582
00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:57,100
S1: Take your next step with Jesus. Today you're listening to

583
00:30:57,140 --> 00:30:58,180
S1: Carl and crew.

584
00:30:58,780 --> 00:31:01,580
S4: We're taking your phone calls this morning, answering this question

585
00:31:01,580 --> 00:31:05,020
S4: that comes out of Romans five. What character did God

586
00:31:05,020 --> 00:31:08,780
S4: produce in you through suffering that gives you hope? If

587
00:31:08,780 --> 00:31:13,260
S4: it's true that our suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character.

588
00:31:13,260 --> 00:31:17,380
S4: Character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame.

589
00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:23,220
S4: What from your story proves that? 805 5578, 98 Adamson.

590
00:31:23,220 --> 00:31:26,580
S4: First time caller from Iowa. What character did God produce

591
00:31:26,580 --> 00:31:27,820
S4: in you through suffering?

592
00:31:29,420 --> 00:31:33,980
S13: Um. God produced compassion and empathy in me. Uh, I

593
00:31:34,020 --> 00:31:36,700
S13: lost five of my family members over the course of

594
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:40,620
S13: five years, and now I'm a servant of Christ. He

595
00:31:40,620 --> 00:31:43,940
S13: called me back. I was a prodigal son and a

596
00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:47,340
S13: prodigal daughter, and he called me home to prepare me

597
00:31:47,540 --> 00:31:49,580
S13: to take care of the lost and the broken. And

598
00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:50,660
S13: that's what I'm doing now.

599
00:31:51,100 --> 00:31:55,140
S6: It's a beautiful story, compassion and empathy. You know, it's

600
00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:57,490
S6: an amazing thing. I went through a season of my

601
00:31:57,490 --> 00:32:00,370
S6: life that was just like that, and it's one of

602
00:32:00,370 --> 00:32:03,810
S6: the greatest fruits of challenges, is you begin to look

603
00:32:04,170 --> 00:32:07,250
S6: with totally different eyes at people around you. And that's

604
00:32:07,250 --> 00:32:11,970
S6: that's powerhouse. Welcome back to God's family, by the way, sister.

605
00:32:11,970 --> 00:32:14,170
S6: Welcome back. Let's go back to the phone lines here.

606
00:32:14,210 --> 00:32:18,010
S4: Ali Ruben calling in from Clearwater, Florida. What character did

607
00:32:18,010 --> 00:32:20,410
S4: God produce in you through suffering? Ruben.

608
00:32:21,690 --> 00:32:26,210
S14: Good morning and hello to everyone. I love you, brother. Um,

609
00:32:26,210 --> 00:32:30,250
S14: God has produced. Love you too, Baba. God has provided.

610
00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:36,490
S14: He's shown me his omnipotence, omniscience. The characters he's produced

611
00:32:36,490 --> 00:32:40,730
S14: in me is humbleness, humility, and he has grown my

612
00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:45,250
S14: faith because I believed and trusted in the Heavenly Father

613
00:32:45,250 --> 00:32:49,290
S14: and his perfect will. And because of those things I am,

614
00:32:49,570 --> 00:32:53,490
S14: I 100% can guarantee you when God says he is

615
00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:56,890
S14: the good Shepherd. He is the good Shepherd at the

616
00:32:56,890 --> 00:32:58,210
S14: end of the day. Period.

617
00:32:58,490 --> 00:32:59,210
S3: Boom!

618
00:32:59,210 --> 00:33:03,610
S6: Ruben! Way to go, brother. Way to go! Wow! The

619
00:33:03,650 --> 00:33:06,730
S6: beat goes on. Sue. First time caller. Chicago. What do

620
00:33:06,730 --> 00:33:07,130
S6: you say?

621
00:33:10,250 --> 00:33:16,570
S15: Lost my, um, husband 18 years ago. Of a massive

622
00:33:16,570 --> 00:33:22,410
S15: heart attack. It was unexpected. But God gave me the

623
00:33:22,450 --> 00:33:25,970
S15: strength to put one foot in front of the other

624
00:33:26,010 --> 00:33:30,450
S15: every single day. And because of that, I now have

625
00:33:30,450 --> 00:33:34,650
S15: a grief group that I share my story with. To

626
00:33:34,690 --> 00:33:39,410
S15: so many who are struggling and feeling that loneliness inside.

627
00:33:39,690 --> 00:33:43,490
S15: I ask God, please do not take my joy away. Please.

628
00:33:43,770 --> 00:33:46,890
S15: And to this day he has not. I am a

629
00:33:46,890 --> 00:33:50,050
S15: very joyful person and I serve the Lord. Thank you.

630
00:33:50,050 --> 00:33:52,130
S3: So much. What a.

631
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,800
S6: Story. Boom! Sister. First time caller from Chicago. And the

632
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:02,400
S6: beat goes on. How about you? Can you praise him

633
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,040
S6: in the storm as you lean into him? You can.

634
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,080
S1: She was trying to earn her way to God, but

635
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,560
S1: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in

636
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,920
S1: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

637
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,520
S6: It never gets old because it's true. Still, he is risen.

638
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,040
S4: He is.

639
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:19,640
S3: Risen.

640
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:20,200
S7: Indeed.

641
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,479
S6: Yeah, man, it's so true. You know, it's a it's

642
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,320
S6: a bummer. By the way, I'm not a big goal

643
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,920
S6: setting guy. You guys know that I'm big into X's

644
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,080
S6: and O's, and the score will take care of itself.

645
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,520
S6: But I did do a holy reset on this great celebration,

646
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,879
S6: Resurrection Sunday. And I am convinced I put a post

647
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,819
S6: out on social media about it that it's the January

648
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:47,200
S6: 1st of every Christ follower. It's better.

649
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,919
S7: Yeah. Ever since you said that, I think it was

650
00:34:50,030 --> 00:34:52,750
S7: last week. I, I, I loved.

651
00:34:52,750 --> 00:34:55,390
S4: That. I really did because I think it's so true.

652
00:34:55,390 --> 00:35:00,270
S4: January 1st is kind of the stereotypical reset. New year,

653
00:35:00,310 --> 00:35:03,669
S4: new you. But really Easter is where it's at.

654
00:35:03,710 --> 00:35:04,430
S3: Yeah. Yeah.

655
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:08,110
S6: It's just it's such a day to commemorate. It's such

656
00:35:08,150 --> 00:35:11,190
S6: an event to anchor some of the things that we

657
00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:16,390
S6: know that needs to change in our life. And it's hopeful, man.

658
00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:19,750
S6: It's hopeful. We're talking about hope rising all week long

659
00:35:19,910 --> 00:35:23,750
S6: and we're experimenting. And so far it's paid off. Yesterday

660
00:35:23,750 --> 00:35:27,110
S6: was just tremendous. Oh my goodness. If you missed anything

661
00:35:27,110 --> 00:35:29,069
S6: from yesterday where do you want to point them.

662
00:35:29,110 --> 00:35:34,270
S4: Ali you can just text show to 800 555 7898

663
00:35:34,310 --> 00:35:38,230
S4: text show to 800 555 7898.

664
00:35:38,270 --> 00:35:42,670
S6: Yeah. What what we saw through AI with Drew Dickens

665
00:35:42,670 --> 00:35:47,950
S6: and with parenting with Arlene Pelikan, we saw that there

666
00:35:47,989 --> 00:35:50,469
S6: is hope even in some of these things that we

667
00:35:50,469 --> 00:35:54,190
S6: feel deep down, especially with AI. No, not especially AI

668
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:57,230
S6: and parenting. Those are two situations that you go, oh,

669
00:35:57,550 --> 00:35:58,790
S6: give me some hope now.

670
00:35:58,830 --> 00:35:59,910
S4: Challenges galore.

671
00:35:59,950 --> 00:36:04,710
S6: Yeah, challenges galore. But in Christ Jesus, man, he gives

672
00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:07,110
S6: us the fuel that we need. There's a red thread

673
00:36:07,110 --> 00:36:11,110
S6: of redemption running through everything that we find ourselves up against.

674
00:36:12,110 --> 00:36:14,989
S6: You know, today we're going to anchor ourselves in a

675
00:36:14,989 --> 00:36:19,669
S6: passage of Scripture that has bookends of hope. And I

676
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:22,750
S6: think hope is without a doubt. I know not think

677
00:36:22,750 --> 00:36:27,230
S6: I know from Scripture that there's great hope just being

678
00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:30,990
S6: in Christ. But hope is not something that you just

679
00:36:30,989 --> 00:36:35,029
S6: land on one and done. It's something that grows and

680
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:38,870
S6: it grows in unusual ways. I don't want to give

681
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:43,710
S6: away the punch line, but hope is the byproduct of life.

682
00:36:44,230 --> 00:36:48,780
S6: And we need that, don't we? Because this this life

683
00:36:48,780 --> 00:36:52,340
S6: that we live. It's filled with trials, right?

684
00:36:52,380 --> 00:36:56,940
S4: So I think our hope can wane sometimes. Certainly. Right.

685
00:36:56,980 --> 00:37:02,420
S6: It can. And it's all about approaching these trials, tribulations,

686
00:37:02,980 --> 00:37:07,859
S6: adversity with the scripture in mind. And we've got a

687
00:37:07,860 --> 00:37:10,100
S6: twofer coming up. We've got open in the Word of

688
00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:14,219
S6: God to the book of Romans. And Susie Larson joining

689
00:37:14,219 --> 00:37:17,140
S6: us here. And here's the thing that you need to know.

690
00:37:17,260 --> 00:37:20,140
S6: And Susie is an expert on this, that when you're

691
00:37:20,140 --> 00:37:23,580
S6: going through the dark night of the soul, we can

692
00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:26,940
S6: still hang on to hope, knowing that that's going to

693
00:37:26,940 --> 00:37:30,660
S6: produce something in us. It's really amazing. Susie Larson and

694
00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:32,500
S6: Romans five coming up.

695
00:37:33,700 --> 00:37:38,219
S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.

696
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:42,620
S6: Well, we're talking hope rising all week long. And hope

697
00:37:42,620 --> 00:37:45,340
S6: is more than a concept or a strategy, right? Ally.

698
00:37:45,380 --> 00:37:47,940
S4: Hope is a person. Hope is in the person of

699
00:37:47,940 --> 00:37:48,900
S4: Jesus Christ.

700
00:37:48,940 --> 00:37:52,700
S6: You know, we find something interesting here in Romans five. Therefore,

701
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:55,420
S6: since we have been justified by faith, we have peace

702
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:58,819
S6: with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we

703
00:37:58,820 --> 00:38:03,939
S6: also have obtained access by faith into this grace in

704
00:38:03,940 --> 00:38:06,500
S6: which we stand. And we rejoice in the hope of

705
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:09,540
S6: the glory of God. And that is so true when

706
00:38:09,540 --> 00:38:12,660
S6: we are regenerated by the power of the spirit. God's

707
00:38:12,660 --> 00:38:16,980
S6: grace poured out into us. So this new birth miracle. Wow!

708
00:38:17,219 --> 00:38:20,860
S6: Hope galore. But Paul doesn't stop there. In fact, I

709
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:23,660
S6: love how he writes this. Not only that, can you

710
00:38:23,660 --> 00:38:26,339
S6: imagine him writing this? Not only that, but we rejoice

711
00:38:26,340 --> 00:38:33,100
S6: in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance

712
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:37,980
S6: produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not

713
00:38:37,980 --> 00:38:41,860
S6: put us to shame. Susie Larson with us right now,

714
00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:44,330
S6: is this one of the most epic texts on Hope

715
00:38:44,330 --> 00:38:48,090
S6: rising in our life on a day to day basis? Suzy.

716
00:38:48,250 --> 00:38:51,570
S16: Karl. I can practically hear music as you read that. Really?

717
00:38:51,610 --> 00:38:54,730
S16: I mean, you just hear this crescendo, this thundering promise

718
00:38:54,730 --> 00:38:58,810
S16: from God that nothing in our lives is wasted, nothing

719
00:38:58,810 --> 00:39:01,770
S16: in our lives is wasted. And any trial that we

720
00:39:01,770 --> 00:39:04,529
S16: walk through will actually serve us well if we'll dare

721
00:39:04,530 --> 00:39:06,890
S16: to trust God in it and remember who he is

722
00:39:06,930 --> 00:39:07,410
S16: in it.

723
00:39:07,450 --> 00:39:10,009
S4: Suzy Larsen, our guest right now, well known radio talk

724
00:39:10,050 --> 00:39:15,050
S4: show host and podcaster. Over 16 million downloads. National speaker,

725
00:39:15,050 --> 00:39:18,490
S4: best selling author. You know, when we think about what

726
00:39:18,530 --> 00:39:20,610
S4: hope is linked to, we said hope is linked to

727
00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:25,130
S4: a person when circumstances are going well, when we're getting wins,

728
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:27,850
S4: when we get the promotion, when our health is good,

729
00:39:28,170 --> 00:39:31,649
S4: it's easy to take for granted that we can remain hopeful.

730
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:35,210
S4: But then as soon as we get our knees bumped

731
00:39:35,210 --> 00:39:38,489
S4: and bruised a little bit, when life knocks us down,

732
00:39:38,650 --> 00:39:42,009
S4: hope can be a very difficult thing to hold on to.

733
00:39:42,050 --> 00:39:44,370
S4: And that's something that I know that you have walked

734
00:39:44,410 --> 00:39:45,850
S4: and know well. Right.

735
00:39:46,250 --> 00:39:48,370
S16: Oh, that's so true, Ali. And you think about it, though,

736
00:39:48,410 --> 00:39:50,529
S16: when things are going well, I don't even know if

737
00:39:50,530 --> 00:39:53,770
S16: you realize how often we shift our hope onto our circumstances.

738
00:39:53,930 --> 00:39:57,529
S16: You know, and so there's sometimes a false sense of security. Yes.

739
00:39:57,570 --> 00:40:00,250
S16: When the winds are at our back and it all

740
00:40:00,250 --> 00:40:03,770
S16: seems to be going well, trial is the great clarifier,

741
00:40:03,770 --> 00:40:06,689
S16: and it actually serves us so well because it's in

742
00:40:06,730 --> 00:40:09,450
S16: that place. You know, scripture talks about, you know, that.

743
00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:11,410
S16: I think it's in Hebrews where it says, right now

744
00:40:11,610 --> 00:40:14,969
S16: things are being shaken, so that which cannot be shaken

745
00:40:14,969 --> 00:40:18,930
S16: can be clearly seen. And we, you know, often want relief.

746
00:40:18,930 --> 00:40:21,770
S16: We want things to go well, who doesn't? Right? Nobody

747
00:40:21,770 --> 00:40:25,169
S16: wants to walk through trial and trouble, but it's in

748
00:40:25,210 --> 00:40:28,290
S16: those places where you look around, okay, okay. What is

749
00:40:28,290 --> 00:40:31,930
S16: not shaking God's love? God's promise, his purpose for me

750
00:40:31,930 --> 00:40:35,290
S16: in this place. And so any in every trial that

751
00:40:35,290 --> 00:40:37,609
S16: I've walked through, I've lived with God long enough to

752
00:40:37,650 --> 00:40:40,680
S16: know it's a tempered storm even though it doesn't feel

753
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,439
S16: like it. And it will serve me well. There are

754
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,680
S16: treasures in those dark places. If I can keep my

755
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,520
S16: wits about me and remember who God is, who I am,

756
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,080
S16: and then look around going, Lord, there's something in this

757
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,759
S16: that you have for me. So help me to discern,

758
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,400
S16: to find hope in you. And I'm telling you what

759
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,240
S16: something in you will be actually activated in your trial.

760
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,799
S16: And then when you get victory through that, you're not

761
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,560
S16: as afraid of the next trial. What I was doing,

762
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,080
S16: and I've been very honest with you and past shows

763
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,680
S16: with you because I was like, every time I come

764
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,080
S16: up for air, I'd get smacked by another trial. I

765
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,000
S16: developed a posture of bracing for impact. And if you're

766
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,000
S16: in that place, you need a fresh dose of hope.

767
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,240
S16: You need a fresh reminder that all is not lost.

768
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,520
S16: All will be well, and God will see you through.

769
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,959
S6: And love it. Susie Lawson, our guest right now, I'm

770
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,480
S6: going to duck back in here to Romans five three.

771
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,990
S6: Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that.

772
00:41:37,989 --> 00:41:41,710
S6: And look at the progression here, Susie. Suffering produces endurance.

773
00:41:41,710 --> 00:41:44,310
S6: In other words, we aren't ready made with endurance. So

774
00:41:44,310 --> 00:41:48,310
S6: suffering is requisite and endurance produces character. So we aren't

775
00:41:48,310 --> 00:41:52,750
S6: ready made with character. But this suffering and endurance produces character,

776
00:41:53,150 --> 00:41:57,070
S6: and hope does not put us to shame. This is epic.

777
00:41:57,230 --> 00:42:00,710
S6: I mean, Paul's laying down life as it is here. Susie.

778
00:42:01,230 --> 00:42:03,149
S16: That's so true. And I might step on a few

779
00:42:03,150 --> 00:42:05,469
S16: toes here, but I got to say, when you hear

780
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:08,430
S16: like the health and wealth gospel, it does not serve

781
00:42:08,430 --> 00:42:11,350
S16: us well. Because if you don't normalize suffering on this

782
00:42:11,350 --> 00:42:15,149
S16: side of eternity, you will be perpetually disappointed. But all

783
00:42:15,150 --> 00:42:16,870
S16: you got to do is read the scriptures to see

784
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:19,950
S16: that suffering trials are a part of life. Jesus himself

785
00:42:19,950 --> 00:42:22,549
S16: said so, but he is not. He's a you know,

786
00:42:22,590 --> 00:42:25,669
S16: he's our King. We serve a good father. He is

787
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:29,509
S16: righteous and just. So anything he allows, he redeems. And

788
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:32,549
S16: if you know anything about like exercise or fitness or

789
00:42:32,550 --> 00:42:35,830
S16: health of any kind, we all have thresholds, and the

790
00:42:35,830 --> 00:42:38,750
S16: only way to get to the next threshold is through opposition,

791
00:42:38,750 --> 00:42:41,670
S16: is through pushing back is through hardship. And so if

792
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:46,390
S16: we could not idolize relief, comfort, ease, which we do

793
00:42:46,430 --> 00:42:50,029
S16: in the Western culture and normalize instead, trials are going

794
00:42:50,030 --> 00:42:52,509
S16: to be part of this life. But it's again, they

795
00:42:52,510 --> 00:42:54,670
S16: will serve me well if I will lean in and

796
00:42:54,670 --> 00:42:57,190
S16: know I have grace here, I have the promise of

797
00:42:57,190 --> 00:43:00,029
S16: God here I have the presence of God here. And

798
00:43:00,030 --> 00:43:02,550
S16: one last thing I'll say about this is, you know,

799
00:43:02,590 --> 00:43:06,750
S16: self-pity and, and kind of a faux victimhood mentality when

800
00:43:06,750 --> 00:43:10,390
S16: we go through our trials will absolutely weaken us. We

801
00:43:10,430 --> 00:43:13,230
S16: don't need pity. We have the promises of God. We

802
00:43:13,230 --> 00:43:16,110
S16: have the presence of God. And so when we start

803
00:43:16,110 --> 00:43:18,509
S16: to throw our shoulders back a bit to say, I'm

804
00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:20,950
S16: a child of God, and if I'm walking through this,

805
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:24,149
S16: it's because there's something in me in my character that

806
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:26,830
S16: needs formation for my next place of promise. So I'm

807
00:43:26,830 --> 00:43:29,149
S16: not going to take this as an indictment. I'm going

808
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:31,750
S16: to take this as God is with me in this,

809
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:33,819
S16: and I'm going to find reason for hope. And it's

810
00:43:33,820 --> 00:43:36,700
S16: not in an outcome, it's in the person of Jesus.

811
00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:38,899
S16: This is not a hope. So hope this is a no.

812
00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:42,060
S16: So hope when you hope in him, you cannot and

813
00:43:42,060 --> 00:43:43,580
S16: will not be disappointed.

814
00:43:43,580 --> 00:43:46,180
S4: I love that. Not a hope so hope a no.

815
00:43:46,180 --> 00:43:49,780
S4: So hope. Susie Larson, our guest this morning. Coming up.

816
00:43:49,820 --> 00:43:54,020
S4: Maybe you're walking through a time of great trial or grief.

817
00:43:54,460 --> 00:43:56,860
S4: Susie wants to share with you, coming up how grief

818
00:43:56,860 --> 00:44:00,020
S4: is a part of our journey, but the difference between

819
00:44:00,260 --> 00:44:04,020
S4: dark sorrow and holy lament. More coming up here on

820
00:44:04,020 --> 00:44:04,820
S4: Carl and crew.

821
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:09,260
S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl

822
00:44:09,260 --> 00:44:11,460
S1: and crew on Facebook and Instagram.

823
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:14,180
S4: As you wake up on This Morning, we don't know

824
00:44:14,180 --> 00:44:16,379
S4: what it is that you're going through, but many of

825
00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:19,540
S4: you are going through something very difficult. We can know that.

826
00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:22,420
S4: I've heard somebody say that you're either in a trial

827
00:44:22,420 --> 00:44:25,660
S4: right now, you're coming out of it, or you're walking

828
00:44:25,660 --> 00:44:29,379
S4: into one. Susie Larson, our guest this morning when we

829
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:34,420
S4: encounter seasons of trial, suffering, loss. We can slip into

830
00:44:34,420 --> 00:44:37,380
S4: a place of of deep sorrow. But what's the difference

831
00:44:37,380 --> 00:44:40,660
S4: between dark sorrow and holy lament?

832
00:44:41,060 --> 00:44:42,780
S16: You know, first of all, say, you know, a guest

833
00:44:42,780 --> 00:44:44,940
S16: on my show about seven years ago said, and this

834
00:44:44,940 --> 00:44:47,860
S16: was way before Covid, he said, one of the epidemics

835
00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:50,980
S16: of the church's unresolved grief. So let me say, there

836
00:44:50,980 --> 00:44:54,420
S16: needs to be space for holy lament and grief, because

837
00:44:54,420 --> 00:44:57,900
S16: we tend to just accumulate sorrow, loss. We may compare

838
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:00,900
S16: our loss to someone else's and then minimize that loss.

839
00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:03,379
S16: We will walk around with wounds in our souls. You

840
00:45:03,380 --> 00:45:05,580
S16: let that build up. Over time. You will start to

841
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:07,820
S16: accuse God of things that the devil is guilty of.

842
00:45:07,980 --> 00:45:11,460
S16: You will, uh, walk on a shaky foundation because when

843
00:45:11,460 --> 00:45:13,980
S16: you forget about the goodness of God, the redemption power

844
00:45:13,980 --> 00:45:17,140
S16: of God, you will suddenly feel shaky in the way

845
00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:19,540
S16: that you walk with God and not secure, and then

846
00:45:19,540 --> 00:45:21,940
S16: you will lose your hope. So I want to just validate.

847
00:45:21,940 --> 00:45:25,220
S16: First and foremost, we need time and space to, to,

848
00:45:25,260 --> 00:45:27,980
S16: to sit before the Lord and resolve those parts of

849
00:45:27,980 --> 00:45:30,770
S16: our story that are like open loops right now, because

850
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:32,810
S16: those are the places the enemy is going to get in.

851
00:45:32,890 --> 00:45:35,129
S16: How did he why did he allow that? Did God

852
00:45:35,130 --> 00:45:37,489
S16: really say, you've got to resolve the hard parts of

853
00:45:37,489 --> 00:45:39,730
S16: your story in light of God's love, so that when

854
00:45:39,730 --> 00:45:42,089
S16: the enemy comes knocking, you say, I've talked with God

855
00:45:42,090 --> 00:45:45,370
S16: about this. He's redeeming my story. So that's one side

856
00:45:45,370 --> 00:45:48,129
S16: of the conversation. But the other side, maybe you've met

857
00:45:48,130 --> 00:45:51,890
S16: someone before who lost someone and never want to minimize loss,

858
00:45:51,890 --> 00:45:54,770
S16: but then they get into a place where they they

859
00:45:54,770 --> 00:45:57,690
S16: make an idol out of their pain, where their identity

860
00:45:57,690 --> 00:46:00,810
S16: is their sorrow, and they go to a dark, dark place.

861
00:46:00,969 --> 00:46:05,569
S16: And that is so tempting when you're grieving your losses.

862
00:46:05,570 --> 00:46:07,410
S16: And one of the ways, you know, one of the,

863
00:46:07,450 --> 00:46:12,850
S16: some of the markers of dark sorrow that's not of God, self-pity, ruminating,

864
00:46:13,050 --> 00:46:15,890
S16: no hope. Again, you get your identity from your loss

865
00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:18,250
S16: or you're making an idol out of your pain that

866
00:46:18,250 --> 00:46:20,890
S16: is not of God. And you're not the only person

867
00:46:20,890 --> 00:46:23,290
S16: being robbed in that. Because there is a sphere of

868
00:46:23,290 --> 00:46:26,650
S16: influence God has given you, and you are so lost

869
00:46:26,770 --> 00:46:29,650
S16: in your loss that you're missing the call of God.

870
00:46:29,890 --> 00:46:33,010
S16: On the other side of this conversation is holy lament

871
00:46:33,010 --> 00:46:36,489
S16: where you're honest with God about your sorrow. But we

872
00:46:36,489 --> 00:46:40,330
S16: don't grieve as those without any hope. With holy lament,

873
00:46:40,370 --> 00:46:44,370
S16: there's always expectant hope that you're moving through the valley

874
00:46:44,370 --> 00:46:47,610
S16: of the shadow. And you know in that place. Goodness

875
00:46:47,610 --> 00:46:50,490
S16: and mercy is chasing after you. He prepares a table

876
00:46:50,489 --> 00:46:52,930
S16: for you. He anoints your head with oil like he

877
00:46:52,930 --> 00:46:56,410
S16: identifies you and anoints and appoints you even in sorrow.

878
00:46:56,530 --> 00:46:59,609
S16: And people who are walking through holy lament. It is

879
00:46:59,610 --> 00:47:03,570
S16: like new wine. It's someone being crushed and something so

880
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:05,930
S16: beautiful and powerful coming out of it. You want to

881
00:47:05,930 --> 00:47:08,489
S16: hear from those people. People who are grieving the right

882
00:47:08,489 --> 00:47:11,890
S16: way are a wellspring of wisdom, and that is what

883
00:47:11,890 --> 00:47:14,209
S16: the Lord wants and invites us to as we walk

884
00:47:14,210 --> 00:47:15,529
S16: through some of our losses.

885
00:47:15,890 --> 00:47:18,690
S6: How do we. Susie. Susie Larson, our guest right now,

886
00:47:19,050 --> 00:47:24,170
S6: because you're a big champion of hopeful expectancy or expectant hope,

887
00:47:24,170 --> 00:47:26,399
S6: which is exactly what Paul tells us to do in

888
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,160
S6: Romans five one through five. How do you hold on

889
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:36,480
S6: to lament and hopeful expectancy? How do you hold on

890
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,840
S6: to two at one time?

891
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,520
S16: Boy, that's a great question. And right as you're asking, Carl,

892
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,280
S16: what comes to my mind is, is John the Baptist

893
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:46,000
S16: when he was in prison. You know, Jesus says, no

894
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,360
S16: greater man born to a woman than John. And yet

895
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,680
S16: in his time of obscurity, I mean, he was where

896
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,200
S16: the action was for a long time. And then he's

897
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:56,720
S16: in obscurity and he had his doubts. And so he

898
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,120
S16: sent his friends to ask, are you the Christ? This

899
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,640
S16: is his cousin. Are you the Christ or should we

900
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,360
S16: be looking for someone else? And the Lord doesn't fault him,

901
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,480
S16: but he does give him an answer that's got some firmness.

902
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,760
S16: And it's got a holy confrontation, I think, and an invitation.

903
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,840
S16: You go tell John the lame leap. The blind receive

904
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:18,040
S16: their sight, the deaf hear again. Blessed are those who

905
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,040
S16: are not offended with me. And I will tell you

906
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,109
S16: when you're in this place, it is so nuanced and

907
00:48:24,110 --> 00:48:26,070
S16: it's not a formula and it's not a one size

908
00:48:26,070 --> 00:48:28,870
S16: fits all for anybody. But you know, when you lose

909
00:48:28,870 --> 00:48:31,710
S16: your peace, you're on shaky ground. You know, when you're

910
00:48:31,710 --> 00:48:34,430
S16: mad at God and he can handle again, you're pounding

911
00:48:34,430 --> 00:48:37,310
S16: on his chest. You're lamenting, oh God, why did this happen?

912
00:48:37,310 --> 00:48:40,230
S16: We see that with the psalmist. But when you get attitude,

913
00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:43,870
S16: you're off ground, you're out of bounds. And so to me,

914
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:47,590
S16: holding on the tension is being honest, but you're tender,

915
00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:51,070
S16: you're teachable, and you still are remembering who God is.

916
00:48:51,310 --> 00:48:54,549
S16: That is of critical importance as we sort through our losses.

917
00:48:54,710 --> 00:48:58,310
S4: Susie Larson, our guest right now, you mentioned something earlier

918
00:48:58,310 --> 00:49:00,830
S4: in our interview about how you realized that you were

919
00:49:00,830 --> 00:49:04,910
S4: living kind of bracing for impact, almost like your elbows

920
00:49:04,910 --> 00:49:08,750
S4: were locked out trying to hold on and make sure

921
00:49:08,750 --> 00:49:10,870
S4: that you were ready for the next for the other

922
00:49:10,870 --> 00:49:14,550
S4: shoe to drop. How did God deliver you from that?

923
00:49:14,710 --> 00:49:17,509
S16: You know, I had a friend who addressed me in

924
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:21,150
S16: a very loving, compassionate way because I was in a relapse,

925
00:49:21,150 --> 00:49:24,509
S16: a health relapse with Lyme disease mold, and the trauma

926
00:49:24,510 --> 00:49:28,230
S16: of the symptoms was so terrifying. I actually needed to

927
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:29,910
S16: see a counselor once I got out. It was a

928
00:49:29,910 --> 00:49:33,390
S16: seven year relapse that was horrific. And I you guys

929
00:49:33,390 --> 00:49:35,029
S16: were with me in that. I've been on the show

930
00:49:35,070 --> 00:49:38,150
S16: plenty of times during that time, but I was bracing

931
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:40,830
S16: for impact. I didn't realize it till she lovingly said, Suzi,

932
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:44,189
S16: you've lost your joy. You've lost your hope. It seems

933
00:49:44,190 --> 00:49:46,390
S16: like you're constantly waiting for the next shoe to drop.

934
00:49:46,390 --> 00:49:48,669
S16: And she had so much compassion and not a hint

935
00:49:48,670 --> 00:49:51,230
S16: of judgment that I took that to the Lord. And

936
00:49:51,230 --> 00:49:54,110
S16: I initially just thought, well, this is a natural reaction

937
00:49:54,110 --> 00:49:57,790
S16: to a terrible disease. But because she had such deep

938
00:49:57,790 --> 00:50:00,430
S16: compassion and she's a woman of God like Lord, is

939
00:50:00,430 --> 00:50:03,510
S16: there more to what her words than what I'm seeing?

940
00:50:03,710 --> 00:50:05,750
S16: And he'd show me that I'd lost my joy. I'd

941
00:50:05,750 --> 00:50:09,830
S16: lost my hope. And because of that, I had been honestly,

942
00:50:09,830 --> 00:50:13,070
S16: subconsciously accusing God of things, the devil. And I wasn't

943
00:50:13,070 --> 00:50:16,350
S16: like outright accusing him. But I was, by my lack

944
00:50:16,350 --> 00:50:19,779
S16: of hope, my lack of trust, and just bracing for

945
00:50:19,780 --> 00:50:23,460
S16: impact because you can't simultaneously live with the holy expectancy

946
00:50:23,460 --> 00:50:26,460
S16: while you're bracing for impact. So even your locked elbows

947
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:29,980
S16: says something about what you believe about God. So for me,

948
00:50:29,980 --> 00:50:34,580
S16: I really got healed by looking around and sincerely thanking

949
00:50:34,580 --> 00:50:37,660
S16: God for my history with God, for the blessings in

950
00:50:37,660 --> 00:50:40,060
S16: my life that I would miss tomorrow if they were gone.

951
00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:43,660
S16: And when I entered into sincere gratitude, that's when I

952
00:50:43,660 --> 00:50:45,739
S16: started to see things as they were and not as

953
00:50:45,739 --> 00:50:48,620
S16: they seemed. And that's another marker that if you're in

954
00:50:48,780 --> 00:50:51,980
S16: dark sorrow, you're not grateful. You're all you can think

955
00:50:51,980 --> 00:50:54,779
S16: about is your loss. And you're entitled to that loss.

956
00:50:54,780 --> 00:50:57,900
S16: And everybody loses when you let yourself go to that place.

957
00:50:58,500 --> 00:51:01,300
S6: Susie, you touched on it, but I want to go there.

958
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:03,420
S6: I want to go there. And I think it manifests

959
00:51:03,420 --> 00:51:06,820
S6: itself in two different ways health, wealth, prosperity. For sure.

960
00:51:06,940 --> 00:51:09,379
S6: I mean, that focus is on, man. This is what

961
00:51:09,380 --> 00:51:12,620
S6: we got in Jesus. And we start quoting the every

962
00:51:12,620 --> 00:51:15,340
S6: promise to Israel as if it were us and to us,

963
00:51:15,340 --> 00:51:19,100
S6: as if it was without pain. And that's one side.

964
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:22,820
S6: The other side is this quite Bible believing evangelical meme

965
00:51:22,820 --> 00:51:25,860
S6: culture that we got right now where it's like, it's,

966
00:51:25,860 --> 00:51:30,380
S6: it's health, wealth, prosperity. It's just a little more scriptural sometimes.

967
00:51:30,380 --> 00:51:32,419
S6: Let's just get after that here for a second. That

968
00:51:32,420 --> 00:51:37,219
S6: is dangerous because it sets you up when there's no

969
00:51:37,219 --> 00:51:40,219
S6: hope but a meme. Then you're wondering, well, what's going on?

970
00:51:40,219 --> 00:51:44,299
S6: And then you become that very thing that you don't want. Susie.

971
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:48,100
S16: Right? And the thing is, when we're not honest about

972
00:51:48,100 --> 00:51:51,299
S16: how life can be, when we're living behind enemy lines,

973
00:51:51,460 --> 00:51:53,820
S16: if you develop a formula and let's say it works,

974
00:51:53,860 --> 00:51:57,339
S16: your formula might work in your time of favor. You know,

975
00:51:57,460 --> 00:51:59,740
S16: let's say you did everything that you knew to do

976
00:51:59,780 --> 00:52:03,140
S16: and your kids are following Jesus. Like I said, in

977
00:52:03,140 --> 00:52:06,339
S16: times of favor, we default to formulas and we don't

978
00:52:06,340 --> 00:52:08,460
S16: even realize it. We just start to believe, well, a

979
00:52:08,500 --> 00:52:12,180
S16: plus b equals C until that apple cart is completely disrupted.

980
00:52:12,180 --> 00:52:15,050
S16: But if you are in a season where you believe

981
00:52:15,090 --> 00:52:18,129
S16: a plus b always equals C, you are. When you're

982
00:52:18,130 --> 00:52:19,930
S16: going to become like job's friends. I just got to

983
00:52:19,930 --> 00:52:22,290
S16: be honest. You. You know what your problem is? Job.

984
00:52:22,290 --> 00:52:25,009
S16: You must have you must have missed a step. And

985
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:27,609
S16: then you leave this wake of people who are suffering

986
00:52:27,770 --> 00:52:32,330
S16: without understanding, without compassion. Because secretly you're going. You must

987
00:52:32,370 --> 00:52:34,410
S16: have missed a step. Now, let's say they did. Let's

988
00:52:34,410 --> 00:52:37,969
S16: say they brought their trouble on themselves. How did Jesus lead?

989
00:52:37,969 --> 00:52:41,730
S16: He looked at the crowds and was moved with compassion.

990
00:52:41,730 --> 00:52:43,690
S16: And you know, in the crowds, there are those who

991
00:52:43,690 --> 00:52:46,169
S16: endure trials through no fault of their own and others

992
00:52:46,170 --> 00:52:48,970
S16: who brought it upon themselves. But he was no respecter

993
00:52:48,969 --> 00:52:52,049
S16: of persons. He was a respecter of faith and humility.

994
00:52:52,370 --> 00:52:54,810
S16: And so I wonder if there's a way that we

995
00:52:54,810 --> 00:52:59,130
S16: can normalize the hardship and days are going to get darker,

996
00:52:59,130 --> 00:53:01,530
S16: the love of most is going to grow cold. But

997
00:53:01,530 --> 00:53:04,690
S16: we can have hope because not only is our story

998
00:53:04,690 --> 00:53:08,049
S16: gaining momentum to that glorious day when God reveals who

999
00:53:08,050 --> 00:53:10,250
S16: his children are, there's so much reward for you if

1000
00:53:10,290 --> 00:53:13,290
S16: you have stayed the course, trusted God when it didn't

1001
00:53:13,290 --> 00:53:16,290
S16: suit you. There's so much reward for you. But what

1002
00:53:16,290 --> 00:53:18,729
S16: I'm in awe of these days, friends, is that we

1003
00:53:18,730 --> 00:53:20,529
S16: get to see some of his goodness in the land

1004
00:53:20,530 --> 00:53:22,570
S16: of the living. You know, if he never did another

1005
00:53:22,570 --> 00:53:24,770
S16: thing for us again, except for what he's storing up

1006
00:53:24,770 --> 00:53:28,930
S16: in heaven, that would be beyond amazing. But he gives

1007
00:53:28,930 --> 00:53:32,290
S16: you new mercies every morning. He gives you answers to

1008
00:53:32,330 --> 00:53:36,130
S16: your prayers. He moves on faith. So right now, while

1009
00:53:36,130 --> 00:53:38,609
S16: the culture is swirling around us and the enemy is

1010
00:53:38,610 --> 00:53:41,450
S16: going after people and stealing from them, left and right

1011
00:53:41,450 --> 00:53:44,850
S16: babies are being born. People are getting new jobs, bodies

1012
00:53:44,850 --> 00:53:47,970
S16: are being healed. God is doing things in our world

1013
00:53:47,969 --> 00:53:49,770
S16: and we have reason for hope.

1014
00:53:49,810 --> 00:53:50,450
S3: Amen.

1015
00:53:50,810 --> 00:53:55,170
S6: Susie Larson, everybody. You want more? Oh, we got it

1016
00:53:55,170 --> 00:53:57,730
S6: for you. 16 million downloads of our podcast.

1017
00:53:57,770 --> 00:53:58,410
S3: Are you kidding.

1018
00:53:58,410 --> 00:54:04,489
S4: Me? Incredible. Text goodness to 800 555 7898 comes from

1019
00:54:04,489 --> 00:54:06,450
S4: the title of one of her books, Waking Up to

1020
00:54:06,489 --> 00:54:11,850
S4: the Goodness of God. Text goodness to 800 555 7898.