S1: Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and
S1: it is my hope that you'll hear something that will
S1: challenge you, grow you up in him, and get you
S1: out into the marketplace of ideas. But before you start listening,
S1: let me take a moment and tell you what this
S1: month's truth tool is. It's the Mediterranean Sea Rules by
S1: Robert Morgan. I talked to him often on the air
S1: because he's such a superb writer, and in this particular book,
S1: he takes the story of Paul's shipwreck, recorded in the
S1: book of acts, and gives us ten principles of how
S1: we push through the storm, learning to trust in God
S1: and all that he has done for us. It's a
S1: magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert
S1: Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly
S1: recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules,
S1: because trust me, every single one of us will find
S1: ourselves on stormy seas at some point in our voyage
S1: through life. As for your copy of The Mediterranean Sea
S1: Rules by calling 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58
S1: or go online to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S1: Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the book,
S1: click it on, Make Your Gift and we'll send you
S1: a copy. My way of saying thank you because we
S1: are listener supported radio. Your gifts keep this broadcast on
S1: the air. By the way, if you'd like to give regularly,
S1: you're called a partial partner. You give every single month
S1: a level of your own choosing. You always get the
S1: truth tool. But in addition, I'll send out a weekly
S1: newsletter that only my partial partners get. It contains my
S1: writing and a little audio piece as well. So pray
S1: about it and thanks in advance. Just call 877 Janet
S1: 58 or online at In the Market with Janet Parshall.
S1: Again the truth tool the Mediterranean Sea rules. Thanks so much.
S1: And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3: This time the conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4: Americans worshiping government over God.
S5: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S4: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S5: Today is not true. Hi friends.
S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. A very
S1: happy Tuesday. So glad we're going to spend the hour together.
S1: How about some good news. All right. We are quickly
S1: approaching Memorial Day weekend and the juxtaposition of this weekend
S1: can't be missed. You know, it really is celebratory when
S1: you think about it, because it's the unofficial opening of summer, right.
S1: And we tend to I mean, there's nothing in the
S1: calendar that way, but that's just the way we as
S1: a culture kind of experience it. At the end of summer,
S1: we tend to think is Labor Day, although give or take,
S1: whatever the school calendars are. But generally we think, great,
S1: here comes those lazy, crazy, hazy days of summer. And
S1: yet it sits in the middle of Memorial Day, which
S1: is really a very solemn occasion. It is about remembering
S1: the fallen in all American wars. And so while we're
S1: going to have picnics and family gatherings and those of
S1: you who can, and if the weather's right in your
S1: neck of the woods, you think, oh, we're going to
S1: open the pool now, it's that kind of year. Well,
S1: in the midst of that, we remember those who poured out,
S1: in the words of Lincoln, that last full measure of devotion.
S1: So if you know a vet, thank a vet. If
S1: you've got a section in the cemetery where there are
S1: veterans that are buried, note to see if in fact,
S1: American flags aren't planted there they are here all in
S1: Northern Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, DC, on the graves of veterans,
S1: particularly in Arlington. All of the white stones, row upon
S1: row upon row, will now have an American flag in
S1: remembrance of what they did. They paid the ultimate price
S1: for defending our country so we remember them. But for
S1: a lot of people, it means get in the car
S1: and go. And Americans are going to be celebrating Memorial
S1: Day by hitting the road, likely being paying the cheapest
S1: gas prices since 2003. Grabbing your wallet while I give
S1: you a good news story GasBuddy. They have a they
S1: have a platform for everything. This is a fuel savings platform.
S1: Said today that it forecasts the national average price of
S1: gasoline is going to be $3.08 per gallon on Memorial Day.
S1: I don't know about you, but I still have to
S1: grab smelling salts. Some of us remember when it was
S1: just $0.99? Yeah, that was when we had rotary phones,
S1: but I digress. That would make it. If you're looking
S1: at numbers here, the cheapest since 2021. In nominal terms.
S1: But if you adjust for inflation, that would be the
S1: lowest since 2003. Now the better news in this good
S1: news story is this is not expected to be short lived.
S1: We know historically the gas prices go up over the summer. Why? Well,
S1: because that's when people travel. So they raise the price
S1: and that's how they make their profits. Well, this is
S1: supposed to be a good season. So from Memorial Day
S1: to Labor Day, the average price per gallon is supposed
S1: to be around $3.02, which is really great, which means
S1: it's actually going to fall below $3 on some days.
S1: That's likely to bring cheer to about 69% of Americans
S1: who are planning on taking a road trip that summer.
S1: In fact, GasBuddy said in a news release, American road
S1: trip culture remains resilient. So last summer, the national average
S1: price of gasoline was $3.58 per gallon on Memorial Day,
S1: so that's significant. That's almost a half a dollar cheaper.
S1: This year's lower price reflects increased oil production that has
S1: lowered crude oil prices. A barrel of Brent Brent crude,
S1: the global standard for oil prices, is currently priced at $65.07.
S1: That's down significantly from $83.71 a year ago. So that's
S1: a good news story. Do you like that one? Good.
S1: Because I got another one for you. I was watching
S1: this one very carefully. There were a couple of Christian
S1: colleges that were going to be really challenged by the
S1: Department of Justice in the previous administration, basically, because, well,
S1: that administration didn't like their biblical worldview. And so as
S1: a result of that, there was a years long legal battle. Well,
S1: here's the good news story today. The US Department of
S1: Ed under this administration has dropped its historic $37.7 million
S1: fine against the largest Christian university in the country. Do
S1: you know what that is? I bet you do. But
S1: you might not know. You know, it's the one you
S1: see on TV. Grand Canyon University, it's based in Phoenix. Phoenix, Arizona.
S1: It was cleared by a joint. This'll all be in
S1: the test. So take notes by a joint stipulation of dismissal.
S1: Order of any wrongdoings. After the Biden administration claimed it,
S1: it misrepresented the cost of its doctoral programs, according to
S1: a press release that came out from the school. So
S1: the dismissal issued by the Department of Education note, quote,
S1: there are no findings against Grand Canyon University or any
S1: of its employees, officers, agents or contractors, and no fine
S1: is imposed. So you can bet that the university president
S1: welcomed the decision to rescind the fine. In fact, he
S1: said this the facts clearly support our contention that we
S1: were wrongly accused of misleading our doctoral students, and we
S1: appreciate the recognition of those accusations were without. And we
S1: recognize that those accusations were without merit. Grand Canyon University
S1: is a leader in innovation, transparency and the best practices
S1: in higher ed, and we look forward to working cooperatively
S1: with the department in the future, just as we have
S1: with all regulatory agencies. So good news for the nation's
S1: largest Christian university, where they get to say bye bye
S1: to a potential $37.7 million fine. Okay, here's not such
S1: a good news story, but today, today's a big news day.
S1: The World Health Organization adopted a landmark pandemic agreement designed
S1: to tackle its future health crises, predicated on an enhanced
S1: ability to watch, monitor and surveil specific national responses to threats.
S1: I've talked about this with Reggie Littlejohn over and over
S1: and over again. So the UN subsidiary is meeting at
S1: its headquarters by the shores of Lake Geneva in Switzerland,
S1: with thousands of members flying in for the nine days
S1: of talks, meaning conferences, dinners, closed door diplomacy. It has
S1: moved on the back of more than three years of
S1: negotiations sparked by the Chinese coronavirus pandemic as it seeks
S1: to chart a way forward after the U.S. withdrew funding
S1: from W.H.O. in the very first days of the current administration. Now,
S1: that's significant because the W.H.O. is boo hooing now that
S1: they're having financial problems. Yeah, that's because we, the United States,
S1: have been paying more than our fair share. And we,
S1: the United States, now don't like the policies of the
S1: World Health Organization. So why should we fund it? Why
S1: should we fund any global entity? From where I'm sitting
S1: in the peanut gallery, the U.S. traditionally is the top
S1: donor to the U.N. health agency, but was not part
S1: of the final stages of the agreement due to the U.S.
S1: exit leaving the W.H.O. to grapple with a 1.7 billion
S1: with a B dollar gap in the 20 2627 spending plans,
S1: as it seeks to trim 12 months of budget costs
S1: from 5.3 billion to 4.2 billion. So that's why now
S1: the W.H.O. is crying poor as it faces an existential
S1: crisis after U.S. funding cuts. Well, funding is going to
S1: be the least of the problems. I'm not the tiniest
S1: bit interested, and I hope you aren't either. And having
S1: an international, non-elected government entity observe what we're doing in response,
S1: not just observe, watch, monitor, surveil specific national responses to threats. That,
S1: of course, begs the question, and if the United States,
S1: as an example, doesn't respond the way the World Health
S1: Organization thinks we should to a pandemic, what will they do?
S1: That's why going back to Nimrod, the centralizing of power.
S1: Never a good idea. Back after this. When the storms
S1: of life hit with hurricane force, how do you respond?
S1: This month's truth tool is the Mediterranean Sea Rules, where
S1: Robert Morgan writes how God will redeem our tragedies for
S1: his purposes. Don't just survive the storms. Learn to serve
S1: God in the midst of them. As for your copy
S1: of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a gift
S1: of any amount in the market, call eight 7758. That's
S1: eight 7758 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S6: When your days been unkind, you can't seem to find
S6: a quiet place to rest your weary mind. Take a
S6: look in God's world. Leave all your cares behind. Pour
S6: yourself into the page. Come face to face with his
S6: awesome power, mercy and grace. When you look in God's Word,
S6: he will heal your heart.
S5: Be on guard. On guard for.
S1: Yourselves and for all the flock among which the Holy
S1: Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of
S1: God which he purchased with his own blood. 87754836758775483675. Do
S1: you ever, I don't know, get upset when you read
S1: passages like even the righteous will be deceived. When I
S1: was a child growing up in the church that used
S1: to bother me so much, Lord, how can you be
S1: one of yours and be deceived? How does that happen?
S1: And then you read about people running toward myths and
S1: being taken captive through vain and hollow philosophy predicated on
S1: this world rather than on the Word of God. And
S1: oh wow. I'll tell you what I don't know about you,
S1: but it's time to suit up, for there's battle out there,
S1: and I want to be trained as a Christian soldier
S1: for spiritual battle. How about you? Eight. 7754. Eight three. Six. Seven. Five.
S1: That's our number. And Doctor Carl Payne is our guest.
S1: We love Doctor Payne. He is such a marvelous teacher teacher,
S1: and we appreciate so much his work as the teaching
S1: pastor at the Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington. And
S1: he's been helping us get some muscle. Yeah, moving from
S1: flab to fit It spiritually and growing up. The admonition
S1: we hear from the Apostle Paul on a regular basis,
S1: growing up in him as we should. And today we're
S1: going to take up, I think, an important and oops,
S1: touchy subject. And that is doctrinal confusion. Yeah, I wish
S1: that wasn't a problem. But why do we want the
S1: stuff that tickles our ears? Why do we want the
S1: parts of Scripture that we like and we'll keep and
S1: we'll apply and we think are wonderful. But the parts
S1: that are convicting and problematic and troublesome and set down
S1: boundaries don't like those parts so much. So we run
S1: after stuff that really is nothing but doctrinal confusion. How
S1: does that happen? That's our topic on the table this
S1: hour and I think it's going to be great. Doctor Payne,
S1: what a delight. I hope you've got your podium and
S1: your stick and your chalk and your board, and you're
S1: ready to teach us this hour, sir.
S7: Oh, young lady, I will do my very best by
S7: God's grace. Good to hear your voice.
S1: You too. And so I know it's going to be great.
S1: And in your book number three of the Transferable Cross
S1: training series where we've been on this marathon with you.
S1: You say that there are three routes of doctrinal confusion.
S1: I love this teach us what these three routes are.
S7: All right. Janet, the, uh, I think I prefaced that,
S7: and it's been a while since I wrote that, but
S7: I think I prefaced it by essentially saying that you
S7: have warnings from both Paul and Peter to protect yourself.
S7: Guard yourself. Act 20 is the one that sticks in
S7: my mind so much. And, uh, you know, be on guard. Uh,
S7: I've told you with tears that in time people are
S7: going to come from within your own members who are
S7: going to, you know, say they're sheep, but they're really wolves. And, uh,
S7: you know, you think through so many of the different books. Galatians. Uh,
S7: they got back into Judaism. You know, you're you're saved
S7: by Jesus. Plus, keeping the law book of First John
S7: and the books of Colossians, Gnosticism, there's hidden, hidden information
S7: that you really have to know if you really want
S7: to be on God's A-Team. In other words, nothing new
S7: that we're told. The book of Ephesians in chapter four,
S7: where he talks about gifted people, are given for equipping
S7: the body for the building up. You know the body
S7: of Christ so that there's unity. And so there's maturity
S7: measured against Christ so that we're not picked off. We're
S7: not deceived by the trickery of men and learning to
S7: speak in love, etc. in other words, we live on
S7: a war field, Janet. There's there's landmines out there, and
S7: they don't all come from the outside. And so and
S7: I would suggest that the more serious the faith, probably
S7: the less often they come from the outside. Because for
S7: someone who's serious about their faith, uh, saying, let's bow
S7: down to a person wearing a red pointy horned hats
S7: and a long tail with a pitchfork, most would say, nah,
S7: that's probably not such a good idea. But if someone
S7: could come in saying, I have, I have a different
S7: view on spirituality that will allow you to be part
S7: of God's A-Team, his Green Beret team, while the rest
S7: of the riffraff just kind of slug it out. If
S7: I'm serious about wanting to walk with God, I might
S7: bite on something like that because I'm thinking, well, of
S7: course I want to be the best I can be.
S7: So what I wrote on the on the doctrinal confusion,
S7: I put number one a new tolerance. I believe that
S7: the church has made a huge mistake by allowing primarily
S7: non-Christians outside the church to redefine what we're supposed to
S7: believe inside the church. And as the church has been
S7: willing to accommodate non-Christians views. And essentially what I would
S7: say to just say it quickly is that we have
S7: allowed tolerance to replace truth. We have allowed the desire
S7: to make sure that we do not hurt someone's feelings
S7: to replace. Are we telling the truth? Are we saying
S7: this is what culture expects me to do? Or this
S7: is what Jesus has told me to do. So the
S7: degree that we allow non-Christians outside the church to determine
S7: what we're supposed to teach inside the church, we ought
S7: not to be surprised when we say, how come we
S7: look like we're at odds around every corner? I mean,
S7: we're always the ones having to justify why we believe
S7: what we believe or we're racist, bigot, horrible people.
S1: Exactly.
S7: Who says who says that? I have to allow the
S7: non-Christians outside to to tell me what is true and
S7: what isn't. So I had said, first, there's a new
S7: tolerance and a definition that we have bought into, which
S7: I don't buy into.
S1: I couldn't agree more. Can I pause you there because
S1: there's such a huge issue? Let me tell you. And
S1: I could be dead wrong. And I'd love your take
S1: on this. And we've talked about this earlier, actually. I'm
S1: wondering if the susceptibility here to the new tolerance, this
S1: idea that outsiders can define that which we then make
S1: part of our teachings on the inside, there's the doctrinal confusion.
S1: I'm wondering if it's because. Let me put the question out.
S1: The music's playing and I'll get your answer when we return.
S1: But I'm wondering if it's because we we we don't
S1: like being marginalized. We don't like to have names leveled
S1: against us. We don't like to be deemed unloving. And
S1: that there is this murky blending, the synchronism between being
S1: kind and compassionate with being tolerant as though they were
S1: one in the same. Can you unpack that when we
S1: come back? Because the mandate is truth and love. So
S1: how do we do this and get over that hurdle of, well,
S1: we're not being tolerant if we do that. I want
S1: to get your take after this.
S8: The Word of God is sharper than a sword. It
S8: pierces through the soul, lays us bare before the Lord.
S8: It calls us to the cross and points us to
S8: his will. It searches us and knows us and takes
S8: us deeper still.
S1: Yea, thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and
S1: a light unto my path and its truth. And it
S1: sets the captive free and its inherent, transcendent, immutable, absolute.
S1: But it doesn't mean there isn't some doctrinal confusion out there.
S1: And how does that happen? That's our topic on the
S1: table this hour with Doctor Karl Payne, pastor of Leadership
S1: development and discipleship training at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington.
S1: So we started out our conversation with Carol talking about
S1: the three roots of doctrinal confusion. And the first one
S1: is new tolerance, defined by non-Christians outside the church accommodated inside.
S1: Which raises a question. I'm into causal factors, so I
S1: want to know why. So if the mandate and it
S1: is from Scripture is you deliver the truth in love,
S1: his law means nothing without his love. His love is
S1: meaningless without the law. The two are inexorably connected. Along
S1: comes post-truth. That's where we're living today. And tolerance is
S1: this transcendent 11th commandment. And now, somehow, if you're not tolerant,
S1: you're unkind. If you're unkind, you're un-christlike. So therefore, I've
S1: hit the tripwire of not being loving. And it's a
S1: cyclical dissension, I think. So how do we unpack that, Carl?
S1: That that tolerance doesn't necessarily equal love. I think there's
S1: some murky thinking here.
S7: Oh, you've you've said it and you've said it. Well,
S7: I'll tell you what went through my mind while you
S7: were sharing that, Janet. I had a teacher many decades
S7: ago that Grant Howard was his name. I think he's
S7: gone to be with Jesus now. But he used to
S7: talk to us all the time about young men. You know,
S7: you're going to face lots of challenges in the ministry
S7: when you go, but one of the key ones is
S7: going to be at least a couple of things. You
S7: want collegial support, collegial affirmation. And if you have colleagues
S7: who are more concerned about men's approval than they are
S7: God's approval for you to walk with men in locking arms,
S7: you know, hoping to keep the collegial approval, you may
S7: find yourself at odds with God Almighty. And that's not
S7: a position you want to be in. He used to
S7: say that you do not make a dichotomy of truth
S7: or relationship. He used to tell us you want truth
S7: in relationship. If you stand in truth, you can and
S7: will develop relationships that will produce fruit for Christ. But
S7: if you end up allowing the desire to chase relationships,
S7: to subjugate truth, you're going to end up with things
S7: that are warm and fuzzy, but you just can't support
S7: them from Scripture. And I think the, you know, kind
S7: of the classic cliché, if you would, is, well, I
S7: know these churches where they stand on truth and they
S7: can dot every I and cross every T and they
S7: have their catechisms, but they're just cold. And so I
S7: want something that is, you know, where people are warm
S7: and fuzzy, and then you walk into the other and say,
S7: you know, you walk into a church that's so warm
S7: and fuzzy, you go, you can believe anything in this place.
S7: And people will wrap their arms around you and say, well,
S7: that's right, praise God. And again, I just take it
S7: back to that teacher when he would say, do not
S7: create a situation where it's truth or relationships, but it's
S7: truth and relationships. Good relationships are supposed to be founded
S7: on truth. If I lie to my wife when she's,
S7: you know, before I marry her, and then I marry her,
S7: and then she finds out I lied to her, she's
S7: not going to trust me. Why should she? I mean, hopefully,
S7: if she's a good forgiver, she'll say, okay, uh, you know,
S7: we've all been in a situation where we wish we
S7: had some do overs, but I guess where I would
S7: take it back and I'm taking too long to get there.
S7: Janet is, I think that I live in a culture
S7: now that that far from the 16th century, which usually
S7: gets quoted about, you know, all the all the standing
S7: on truth and yada yada yada and no heart, just
S7: just head. I think I live in an 180 degree
S7: antithesis today, where as long as you feel good about something,
S7: then you know God wants you to be happy and
S7: God wants you to be healthy, wealthy, and wise. And
S7: so whatever moves you towards that, uh, situation must be
S7: of God. And if it if it if it creates
S7: cognitive dissonance, in a word, they love, you know, kind
S7: of brain freeze, then it must not be from God.
S7: And I'm saying I'm sorry, but I am nowhere told
S7: that I am setting culture as my standard to determine truth.
S7: It's always been Christ as the standard, the Word of God,
S7: that he was inspired by God. So no, I don't
S7: want to be a bonehead. No, I don't want to
S7: purposely be offensive to people. But on the other hand,
S7: when people inside the church tell me, well, listen, Carl,
S7: if you don't give on this and roll on this
S7: and agree with this, they're not going to come to
S7: your church because they're going to think you're unloving. I'm
S7: going to say at some point, I have become so
S7: tolerant that I don't have a message that's any different
S7: from the culture I'm living in. At what point do
S7: we at what point do we say, since Jesus is
S7: such a good forgiver, don't worry about what he said.
S7: He'll forgive you anyway. But you know, your friends in culture,
S7: they're not quite so forgiving. So you, you know, really bend.
S7: I go, I get it. But at some point or other,
S7: I go, how do you build a church on people
S7: that are Jell-O? How do you do it?
S1: And if you want to replicate the nature of our
S1: Savior and of our Heavenly Father, God does not tolerate sin.
S1: He gave us the Ten Commandments and then said, you know,
S1: if you feel like obeying these, he said, here's the law.
S1: If you step outside of it, it's sin. He so
S1: could not tolerate the concept of sin that he sent
S1: his Son to the cross. So I don't know if
S1: it's just in its application where we've taken the word
S1: tolerance to mean acceptance. I like what G.K. Chesterton said.
S1: He said tolerance is the attitude of those who do
S1: not believe in anything. It goes right to the heart
S1: of what you just said, Carl, which is this idea
S1: of truth. You are most loving when you tell someone
S1: the truth and most truthful when you deliver it in
S1: a loving fashion. Doctor Carl Payne is with us. You
S1: have questions on doctrinal confusion. That is our topic this hour. 877548367518775483675.
S1: Working our way through the Transferable Cross Training Series. You
S1: can learn more at our website in the market with
S1: Janet Parshall. If what you hear on in the market
S1: with Janet Parshall encourages you, enlightens you, engages you, and
S1: equips you, I want to ask you to become a
S1: partial partner Today. This program depends on the faithful and
S1: ongoing support of listeners just like you. By supporting this
S1: program on a regular, ongoing monthly basis, you'll receive several
S1: benefits that only my partners receive. So please call today
S1: eight 7758 or go online to in the market with
S1: Janet Parshall.
S9: His truth is marching. On. Glory. Hallelujah! His truth is marching. On.
S1: We're visiting with Doctor Carl Payne. He is the pastor
S1: of leadership development and Discipleship at Antioch Bible Church of Redmond, Washington.
S1: And he's written three books that really help us get
S1: some of that spiritual muscle necessary for spiritual battle. And
S1: we're in the third book now called leadership and Taking
S1: up the topic of Doctrinal Confusion. I think there's a
S1: little out there. Sit in front of your cable TV. Oh,
S1: a few days before Easter. See if there's any doctrinal
S1: confusion out there. I rest my case. So we were
S1: talking about the new tolerance as one of the root
S1: causes of doctrinal confusion. The second is the new gospel. Carl,
S1: how do you define it?
S7: Um, again, I'm going to go back a little bit
S7: to some of the texts, you know, of Galatians. If
S7: I'm looking for an example, you know, where Paul says
S7: it's a new gospel, but it's really not a new gospel.
S7: It's people inside the church, uh, at times redefining. Sometimes
S7: it was people outside the church, second Corinthians 11, doing
S7: the same thing. It can happen either way, but broader
S7: stroke for me. New gospel, I said, is typically defined
S7: by non-Christians inside the church, but accommodated inside the church.
S7: So again, I'm looking at something where, uh, and I'm
S7: not saying any of these to be facetious or mean, but, uh,
S7: you know, the shack, the shack basically is talking about universalism.
S7: I mean, if God's really a loving God there, you know,
S7: as long as you love God and and mean, well,
S7: he'll take you, uh, you know, go, go, whatever method
S7: you want to go. You know, as long as, you know, ultimately,
S7: nobody can be all that bad. Uh, you know, you
S7: end up with, you know, Jehovah Witnesses because of Russell
S7: getting Ahold of the writings of fourth century church Father
S7: Arias and having a problem with the hell question. It's
S7: like we develop a whole different, uh, you know, set
S7: of doctrinal truths that people follow that, well, hey, they're
S7: nice people and they're real active, you know, Mormons with
S7: a salvation that's a five step, you know, receive Jesus,
S7: receive repentance, receive the Holy Spirit, keep the ordinances of
S7: the church, and get baptized in the church. there's a
S7: new way to salvation, etc. in other words, it's often
S7: people that they can be religious, but they're outside the church.
S7: But instead of the church standing up and saying, no,
S7: you know Titus one nine, we're told that we're supposed
S7: to accurately handle the word, you know, understand doctrinal truths
S7: so that we can refute those who contradict or. Jude
S7: chapter three, verse three contend for the faith that was
S7: one time for all delivered to the saints. Or a
S7: First Peter, chapter 315 Sanctify Christ. In other words, he's
S7: supposed to be first. Always be ready to have a
S7: reasonable answer for a reasonable question with an attitude that
S7: is gentle meant power under control, not weak. And I'm
S7: suggesting that I think that with a new gospel, whether it's,
S7: you know, there's plenty of ways not Jesus only. Gosh,
S7: that sounds awfully narrow. You don't want to say something
S7: like that. Well, Carl, you say the Bible is the
S7: book that God inspired. But what about the Upanishads? What
S7: about the Bhagavad Gita? What about the Book of Mormon? Uh,
S7: you know, what about the Quran? ET cetera, et cetera.
S7: And I'm supposed to roll over because, again, I'm so
S7: worried going. Oh, well, I wouldn't want to look like
S7: I'm singularly committed to Christ. Like I'm kind of bigoted
S7: and people will turn me off. So I'm saying that
S7: when people outside promoting other gospel and when the church
S7: is willing to allow them to do that and start
S7: accommodating that, well, you know, uh, I remember when I
S7: had a muslim friend, uh, who had converted to Christianity,
S7: but he said to me one day he said, you know,
S7: the Christians that are running around saying, God's name is Allah,
S7: God's name is Yahweh. It really doesn't matter. It's just
S7: divine nicknames for the same God. He said, you'll never
S7: get a muslim say that. Never. He said. It's only
S7: Christians that are willing, out of an attempt to want
S7: to look like they're accommodating and being kind. They'll say things,
S7: but the Bible doesn't support that. And the Muslims will say,
S7: at least have enough courage to say, no, we don't
S7: believe that. So then we ostracize the Christians that aren't
S7: wanting to roll over and say, I'm sorry, you can't
S7: say that. Oh boy, aren't you being hard hearted and unkind?
S7: I'm going. What is unkind about telling the truth? So
S7: I go back to where we started. That whole thing
S7: about the tolerance, the new tolerance creates a new gospel.
S7: Because I am so wanting the approval of people that
S7: I will change what God has inspired. Where do I
S7: have the right to do that?
S1: I'm so glad you brought that up, Carl, because I
S1: do see this linkage between point number one and point
S1: number two. Point number one, again, the new tolerance point
S1: number two, the new gospel. So you talk about some
S1: of those insidious ideas that are working their way in
S1: the church. One of them, for example, is universalism. A
S1: good God would not send anybody to hell. So therefore
S1: in the end, we all end up in heaven with
S1: him anyway. Well, that's because you want to tell somebody
S1: that without accepting what Jesus has done for you, paying
S1: the atonement for your sins, if you reject what he's
S1: done for you, you will be eternally separated from him.
S1: That is the definition of hell. If you say that
S1: that's not a warm fuzzy, therefore you're not being tolerant.
S1: So there is a linkage between the two. It seems
S1: to me that, and I'm wondering if the root cause
S1: of both of those is self. My desire to be
S1: accepted and to be affirmed and valued supersedes whether or
S1: not I tell somebody the difference between heaven and hell,
S1: that's pretty dangerous.
S7: I agree. I might make it. Yes, yes. What you
S7: said is right. Well, you just you flow, sis, when
S7: you talk. That's why I love being with you on
S7: your program. I've said you're a warrior, and I believe that.
S7: I see I am so much wanting to promote a
S7: gospel that says God is so concerned about your happiness
S7: that he's not going to allow anything to interfere with that.
S7: And whatever makes you happy, whatever floats your boat. And
S7: I'm saying you can make that popular and you can
S7: pull people in, but they're the same churches that about
S7: every two years have people feeding into other churches, because
S7: at some point they either say this Christianity stuff doesn't work,
S7: or they say, gosh, I've tapped out everything this church
S7: has got to teach and I'd like more, but it's
S7: It just becomes a feeder to you. Go. Why? Because
S7: the Bible nowhere says that God is Santa Claus, and
S7: that he is obliged to do anything for me other
S7: than not violate his character. And so when I make
S7: this whole Christian thing about, you know, how can I
S7: make sure, you know, choose Jesus and everything crooked will
S7: become straight? I have made something, a lie that I
S7: know is a lie from the get go. I mean,
S7: James says trials are coming. It's not if. It's when
S7: Peter says suffering is coming, it's not. If it's when
S7: Paul said that the Philippians suffering is coming, it's not if,
S7: it's when. So when I tell people it's all about
S7: Santa Claus in the sky, I'm setting them up. And
S7: at what point do they say, Carl, why did you
S7: lie to me? And if someone goes the other side
S7: and says, oh, then you just got to paint this horrible,
S7: horrible picture? I'm not saying that. I'm just saying when
S7: the book speaks clearly, we've got a responsibility to share
S7: what the book says. And if the book is ambiguous
S7: on something, then I can say that too. I have
S7: an opinion here, but it's not clear. But it can't
S7: be controlled by my love for this culture. And what
S7: do I have to do to make sure they call
S7: me friend? Because this culture and my God are in
S7: opposition to one another. That's the whole point of first
S7: John 215 to 17. If you say you love God
S7: and you love this world, the love of the father
S7: isn't in you. Why the lust of the eye, the
S7: lust of the flesh, the boastful pride of life. These
S7: are not from the father. And then 17 the things
S7: of this world are fading away. The things of a
S7: God abide forever. So why am I trying to teach people? Listen,
S7: you're unloving unless you teach them how to blend. I
S7: said before, in one of your shows, we've made an
S7: art form for Christians blending in, and then we wonder
S7: why people don't take us serious. I go because we're
S7: the ones looking like jello. I don't want to be jello.
S7: I don't want to be hard. I don't want to
S7: be mean, but I don't want to have a person wondering, well,
S7: sometimes his yes means yes. Sometimes it means no. It
S7: just depends on when you talk to him. Sometimes he says,
S7: follow the Bible. Sometimes he doesn't say follow the Bible.
S7: They are, they are. I have given them a right
S7: to say, who are you? What do you believe? I
S7: don't I don't understand who you are. You've confused me.
S7: And how much of it comes again from that new tolerance?
S7: We allow the outside to define it. And then the
S7: new gospel. We want to look like we're so hip
S7: and with it, you know, kind of thing that we
S7: shade stuff, and then we end up, you know, going, what?
S7: What are we teaching? Well, either we teach what the
S7: book says and don't apologize for it, or we teach
S7: what people want us to hear. And Paul told Timothy,
S7: there's a time coming in chapter four that people are
S7: going to want their ears tickled. And we go, how
S7: come we seem so anemic? How come we seem so anemic?
S7: I said, because I think we're ashamed of our message.
S1: Wow, wow, gene, let me bring you into this. You
S1: join us from Ohio. Your question for Doctor Payne, please.
S10: Yes. I was wondering if it was Jesus or John
S10: the Baptist to use the term brood of snakes, and
S10: wasn't it? Was it James and John who were referred
S10: to as the Sons of Thunder? And didn't Jesus turn
S10: over the tables? And is that speaking truth with a
S10: motive of love? I'll hang up and listen. Thank you.
S7: You know, your first first is is the Baptist when
S7: he's wondering, saying to the Pharisees, you know who who
S7: told you, you know, to come here? Matthew 23 Jesus
S7: isn't outdone by the Baptist. You know when he says,
S7: you know, you're whitewashed tombs, you're blind guides leading the blind.
S7: So there was plenty of that coming from Jesus and, uh,
S7: you know, and the Baptist. But again, if I'm looking today,
S7: I would say, Jesus, you just don't quite get it right.
S7: When you turned over the tables, you know, offensive. That's
S7: going to be to the people in the market. And
S7: we're wanting to win them to Christ. So what's he
S7: supposed to do? He allows them to continue to use
S7: his house as a den of emporium of robbers, as
S7: he says, no, at some point you have to go. Yes,
S7: I would like to have you like me instead of like,
S7: not like me. But on the other hand, when you
S7: ask me to compromise truth. When you ask me to
S7: sell out Jesus and what he told me to do
S7: for what my neighbor tells me to do, or my
S7: professor tells me to do, at some point, I think
S7: I'm not comfortable with that. And if you want to
S7: label me as unloving and such for that, you can
S7: do it. I would say, how about I'm wanting to
S7: be a disciple of Christ, not a disciple of culture.
S1: Wow. Excellent conversation, as always, with Doctor Carl Payne, pastor
S1: of leadership development and discipleship training at Antioch Bible Church
S1: of Redmond, Washington. We're going to take a break and
S1: come right back. More with Doctor Payne right after this.
S9: Oh. My God.
S11: Cause you came to take us back to the start.
S11: You came to touch the hardness of our hearts. You
S11: gave us truth. The truth is who you are. Who
S11: you are.
S1: We're visiting with Doctor Carl Payne, pastor of leadership development
S1: and discipleship training at Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, Washington.
S1: Barbara in Hawaii. Let me welcome you into the conversation
S1: and your question for Doctor Payne, please.
S12: My question is, what does he consider the best response
S12: when we're trying to show people what the Bible says
S12: in a loving way? Uh, but they say, no, I'm sorry,
S12: that's just a bunch of men that wrote the book.
S12: I know all the words to say, but sometimes my
S12: mind just goes blank.
S7: Oh, Barbara, that's a that's a whole program in itself,
S7: you know, depending on where they're coming from. I mean,
S7: if they're telling me they're coming from a, a naturalist
S7: and atheist position, I'm, I'm probably going to launch into
S7: some apologetic considerations on origins. And, uh, is it, uh,
S7: is it more reasonable to believe that, uh, nothing is
S7: the ultimate resource of everything, or that something is the
S7: ultimate resource of everything? If it's about the Bible and
S7: how the Bible was put together over, you know, how
S7: many years by exploiters and stuff. I want to be
S7: able to have some information about, uh, how how was
S7: the Bible put together? Uh, you know, when were the
S7: books of the Bible, uh, you know, put together? When
S7: was the canon settled? Those aren't up for grabs, not
S7: for someone that wants to deal with real factual material,
S7: but there's people that make it for grabs. What is
S7: this inspiration thing about Jesus? The only way? It really
S7: depends on what are they asking. And then praying to
S7: God that I have got quivers in my arrows in
S7: my quiver that say I want to be able to
S7: give reasonable answers to reasonable questions, uh, each time I
S7: get hit with one, I don't know. Then I do
S7: some homework. So next time that question is not scary,
S7: just say, that's a great question. What I don't want
S7: to do is be so obnoxious in the way I
S7: respond to it that even if I'm right in what
S7: I say, I, you know, I've beat him up with
S7: so much Bible that they're scared to death of me.
S7: I go, that's that's not real helpful either. Not knowing
S7: Bible is not helpful. Beating somebody up with Bible is
S7: not helpful. I would just like to try and speak
S7: in a reasonable way and then realize something to Barbara
S7: when when Peter says essentially, and I'm paraphrasing, but reasonable
S7: answers to reasonable questions when I realize I'm dealing with
S7: somebody that isn't asking reasonable questions. They're an ideologue. They
S7: really don't care what you say. They're right and you're wrong.
S7: I don't waste a lot of time with that individual.
S7: In other words, if it's going to be a dialogue,
S7: that's fine. If it's going to be a monologue of
S7: them teaching me what is true and letting me know
S7: how uninformed I am, and anytime I want to, you know,
S7: respond to a particular. It's like, well, that's your opinion, bud.
S7: And they launch back in. I'm not going to sit
S7: in a monologue very long.
S1: Mm mm. Great answer. Barbara, thank you for the question.
S1: I hope that helps and encourages you as well. Carl,
S1: if I can, I would be remiss if I didn't
S1: get to the third point. You call it new teaching.
S1: Tell me about that one.
S7: Well, what again? What I'm talking about there is where
S7: and I just see the progression, you know, after people
S7: outside the church define what is, you know, true now
S7: because the tolerance of place is truth and we accommodate it.
S7: And the new gospel, you know, the people outside and again, we,
S7: we accommodate probably for honorable we would think we're wanting
S7: to get along and be considered kind. I'll say we
S7: end up step three with Christians, people inside who are
S7: now teaching, you know, something brand new and promoting it
S7: and propagating it inside. In other words, instead of the
S7: church being the one that is influencing culture, isn't it first.
S7: Ah ah ah oh, what is it? It's it's first
S7: Timothy 215. I think that says the church is a
S7: pillar of truth. Instead of us being a pillar of
S7: truth that is solid and sound, we end up blowing
S7: in the wind like, you know, a flag flipping back
S7: and forth and and at some point I end up
S7: with a situation where we are teaching things that are
S7: simply not true. And again, at least we can't support
S7: it biblically. Janet. But what we'll say is, well, you know,
S7: culturally that's just kind of out of step. You know,
S7: Paul was a homophobe. Paul hated women. Paul was xenophobic. Uh,
S7: you know Peter, what's he know? He was a fisherman anyway.
S7: In other words, at some point, instead of trying to say,
S7: let's deal with this Scripture upon Scripture, line upon line,
S7: since we can't support our perspective that way because we
S7: have so allowed ourselves to be bullied. And that's what
S7: I think it is. And caving to what culture wants
S7: us to say that at that point, we just come
S7: up with new teaching that supports what we say. And
S7: yet the truth of the matter is it's not supportable
S7: in the text. And I'm saying by allowing the outside
S7: to define terms, we ultimately set ourselves up for a
S7: gospel that I think Paul would say, that's not what
S7: I taught you. Remember six and eight in chapter one?
S7: I don't care if an angel or apostle shows up
S7: preaching you a gospel contrary to what we taught you,
S7: let them be accursed. In second Corinthians 11 we referenced
S7: that when we first came in verse one, put up
S7: with me, I'm your spiritual dad. Verse two, I led
S7: you to Christ. You know, I presented you as a
S7: pure virgin. You were walking in purity of your faith.
S7: Verse three I'm concerned for you at least. Just as
S7: the serpent deceived Eve through her mind, you're being deceived.
S7: Verse four. Why? You're talking about a different Jesus. You're
S7: involved with spirits other than the one you'd already been
S7: involved with, and you're now promoting a different gospel. And
S7: then the idiomatic and you're passive about it. You don't
S7: even fight what's going on. And then they respond by saying, well,
S7: they told us they were teachers of truth. And he
S7: responds in 13 to 15 of that chapter, well, Satan
S7: parades himself as an angel of light. Don't you understand?
S7: His emissaries are going to do the same thing. So,
S7: in other words, by hoping to accommodate and be polite
S7: and say, well, let's consider that and listen. At some
S7: point we end up allowing someone else to define not
S7: only what's true, but what we teach inside our own church.
S7: When I have people, when I go to conferences say here,
S7: these are subjects that you can't touch, or someone tells
S7: me an apologetics conference, I've got another one coming up
S7: fairly soon, you know, don't touch this topic, don't touch
S7: this topic. Don't touch. Why? Well, because it might offend people.
S7: So we're supposed to allow culture to redefine truth and
S7: then wonder why they see us as jello.
S1: Wow. Wow. Can you imagine if Paul had said that
S1: about what was happening in Corinth or in Athens, or
S1: just it's amazing to me how so often, I guess
S1: I'm going to go back to the statement I said before.
S1: And I say this standing in front of my own
S1: spiritual mirror is my desire to be accepted so important
S1: to me to be valued by this culture, this world,
S1: that I'm willing to trample truth underfoot for the transcendent
S1: idea of being accepted, if in fact, there's transcendence there
S1: at all. Wow, that was fabulous. Three Root Causes of
S1: Doctrinal confusion. Let me recap. New tolerance, new gospel, new teaching.
S1: Thy word have I hid in my heart that I
S1: might not sin against thee? So important hide it away.
S1: It will illuminate your path. Always has, always will. Learn
S1: more about the Transferable Cross Training series by going to.
S1: In the market with Janet Parshall Levy. To answer the
S1: question of the week and check out this month's truth tool.
S1: See you next time, friends.