1 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:09,360 S1: Today on Chris Fabry Live, an honest conversation about life 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:14,120 S1: past middle age, the downhill side of 50 or 60 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,680 S1: or wherever you are. That moment when you look in 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,239 S1: the mirror and you see somebody else's face staring back 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,400 S1: at you. How did my father get in my mirror? 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,440 S1: Or your mother? When there's a class reunion and you 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,360 S1: look around and you wonder. Where did all these old 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,440 S1: people come from? You don't feel old. But inside you 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,520 S1: know you feel much younger than you are on the outside. 10 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,840 S1: Our correspondent to the church, the culture and the heart 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,120 S1: is Doctor John Kessler. He has been doing some deep 12 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:43,880 S1: thinking along these lines, and I want you to hear 13 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:46,560 S1: his musings today at the Radio Backyard Fence. You'll find 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:50,680 S1: us online at Chris relive.org. We thank our team. Ryan 15 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,240 S1: McConaughey and Lisa are doing all things technical. Trish is 16 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,080 S1: our producer. Josh will be answering your calls, and I 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,170 S1: really hope if you resonate with the topic today that 18 00:01:00,170 --> 00:01:02,330 S1: you'll call us and say you are right on or 19 00:01:02,570 --> 00:01:06,649 S1: now you're way off. So write the number down and 20 00:01:06,650 --> 00:01:08,250 S1: give us a call or give it to you here 21 00:01:08,250 --> 00:01:10,170 S1: in a minute. Thank you for your support of this 22 00:01:10,170 --> 00:01:13,530 S1: program in July. This is the first month of our 23 00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:16,610 S1: new fiscal year, and I hope you are enjoying our 24 00:01:16,610 --> 00:01:19,690 S1: walk down memory lane. We've presented three programs this month 25 00:01:19,690 --> 00:01:22,890 S1: already about the 100 years of Moody Radio. Yesterday, did 26 00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:26,250 S1: you hear Ruth Dinwiddie? Did you hear Anita Lustria and 27 00:01:26,250 --> 00:01:29,449 S1: Stan Ferris and Wayne Shepherd? We are having so much 28 00:01:29,450 --> 00:01:32,289 S1: fun celebrating what God has done in the last hundred 29 00:01:32,290 --> 00:01:36,210 S1: years through the miracle of radio. Moody radio. And we 30 00:01:36,250 --> 00:01:38,490 S1: are not content to stay where we are. We are 31 00:01:38,490 --> 00:01:41,289 S1: building on the foundation that has been laid by faithful 32 00:01:41,290 --> 00:01:43,890 S1: men and women. And you will find out about that 33 00:01:43,890 --> 00:01:46,810 S1: in the book. This is Moody radio 100 Years of 34 00:01:46,810 --> 00:01:49,850 S1: Proclaiming the gospel. It's our. Thank you right now for 35 00:01:49,850 --> 00:01:52,410 S1: anyone who supports us. And I'm getting response. I had 36 00:01:52,410 --> 00:01:55,650 S1: an email today from someone who said, hey, my friend, 37 00:01:56,010 --> 00:01:59,290 S1: my my uncle's friend Carl is Carl in the book, 38 00:01:59,370 --> 00:02:01,529 S1: and I was able to write back and say, yes. 39 00:02:01,530 --> 00:02:04,970 S1: Page 113. I think it was. You are going to 40 00:02:04,970 --> 00:02:07,850 S1: be thrilled with this journey through history all the way 41 00:02:07,850 --> 00:02:11,530 S1: back to 1926 and to the present. Call or click 42 00:02:11,570 --> 00:02:17,329 S1: through today eight six, 695 Fabry or Chris fabry.org. I 43 00:02:17,330 --> 00:02:20,330 S1: see those who are giving are following my request earlier 44 00:02:20,330 --> 00:02:22,769 S1: in the month. For you to be as generous as 45 00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:24,890 S1: you can. When you create a book like this with 46 00:02:24,889 --> 00:02:28,050 S1: all these pictures and the graphics, the cost of production 47 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:30,970 S1: goes up and it costs more to send it. So 48 00:02:30,970 --> 00:02:34,690 S1: thank you for your generosity in coming behind us, getting 49 00:02:34,690 --> 00:02:42,850 S1: alongside us here at the back fence. (866) 953-2279. Or go 50 00:02:42,850 --> 00:02:46,609 S1: to Chris Fabry live.org and scroll down. If you are 51 00:02:46,610 --> 00:02:49,649 S1: a back fence partner and you give each month. Make 52 00:02:49,690 --> 00:02:52,250 S1: sure you click the email that we sent out. I 53 00:02:52,250 --> 00:02:55,730 S1: think it was on Tuesday that shows you. Yeah, yeah, 54 00:02:55,770 --> 00:03:00,220 S1: I want to get that. And coming up Monday. Oh, 55 00:03:00,419 --> 00:03:02,660 S1: the fun we'll have. We're going to talk about mornings 56 00:03:02,660 --> 00:03:06,700 S1: on Moody. The morning shows through the years. I think 57 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:08,940 S1: the Morning show sets the tone for the station for 58 00:03:08,940 --> 00:03:11,660 S1: the rest of the day. That's been my experience in 59 00:03:11,660 --> 00:03:14,380 S1: different stations where I've worked. So I want to hear 60 00:03:14,380 --> 00:03:16,780 S1: the difference made in your life by someone in the 61 00:03:16,780 --> 00:03:21,500 S1: morning from 50 years ago, or maybe today. Listen Monday 62 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:24,580 S1: for that and I hope you'll respond to us today. 63 00:03:24,580 --> 00:03:26,500 S1: It's been a while since we've talked with Doctor Kay. 64 00:03:26,540 --> 00:03:29,660 S1: John Kessler in his is an award winning author, retired 65 00:03:29,660 --> 00:03:34,260 S1: faculty emeritus of pastoral studies at Moody Bible Institute. He's 66 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:36,900 S1: written a number of books. Our featured resource today is 67 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:40,740 S1: Practicing the Present, which will go along with our topic 68 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:44,620 S1: of the life you planned versus the life you are living. 69 00:03:45,100 --> 00:03:47,500 S1: Doctor Kessler, welcome to the program. How are you doing today? 70 00:03:47,740 --> 00:03:49,740 S2: I'm good Chris. Wonderful to be here. 71 00:03:50,420 --> 00:03:54,620 S1: Quick story to set this up. So my wife and 72 00:03:54,620 --> 00:03:58,620 S1: my son went to the grocery store about 20 minutes 73 00:03:58,620 --> 00:04:00,540 S1: from us. And it's in an area where a lot 74 00:04:00,580 --> 00:04:03,980 S1: of retirees live. And so you got to slow down 75 00:04:04,380 --> 00:04:07,660 S1: when you go there. And, uh, so my, my wife 76 00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:11,060 S1: went up and she went to the, the self-checkout lane 77 00:04:11,060 --> 00:04:13,380 S1: and my son said, oh, go ahead, mom, I, I 78 00:04:13,420 --> 00:04:15,820 S1: need to go grab something else. And so he got 79 00:04:15,820 --> 00:04:17,540 S1: in line. By the time he got back, there was 80 00:04:17,540 --> 00:04:20,140 S1: a guy in front of him and my wife was 81 00:04:20,140 --> 00:04:24,060 S1: in the very first checkout lane, and she was having 82 00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,300 S1: problems with getting her rewards number or whatever you call it, 83 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:30,460 S1: or she couldn't get something to weigh and she couldn't 84 00:04:30,460 --> 00:04:32,860 S1: get her asparagus away or whatever that was. And she 85 00:04:32,860 --> 00:04:35,059 S1: had to call the attendant over and say, help me. 86 00:04:35,540 --> 00:04:39,020 S1: And the fellow in front of my son under his breath, 87 00:04:39,020 --> 00:04:41,100 S1: he didn't say this to anybody else. It was just 88 00:04:41,100 --> 00:04:45,779 S1: under his breath, loud enough for my son to hear. Said, uh, 89 00:04:46,580 --> 00:04:51,539 S1: old people are killing me just like that. And when 90 00:04:51,580 --> 00:04:53,660 S1: and when my son got back, I said, well, what 91 00:04:53,660 --> 00:04:56,190 S1: did what? What did you say? Did you say anything? 92 00:04:56,190 --> 00:04:58,550 S1: Because I went through all the permutations of what I 93 00:04:58,550 --> 00:05:01,070 S1: would say. And most of them started with, hey, pal, 94 00:05:01,710 --> 00:05:04,470 S1: you know, um, and he said, I didn't say anything 95 00:05:04,510 --> 00:05:06,510 S1: to him, dad, but I thought all the way home, 96 00:05:06,550 --> 00:05:09,070 S1: you know, great things that I could have said, but 97 00:05:09,270 --> 00:05:12,510 S1: old people are killing me. And I think I wanted 98 00:05:12,510 --> 00:05:16,390 S1: to use that story to start the program today. John, 99 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:17,750 S1: how do you respond to that? 100 00:05:18,029 --> 00:05:21,589 S2: Well, I gotta say, you know, they're killing me too, 101 00:05:21,630 --> 00:05:24,950 S2: and I'm 73 or I'm going to be 73. You know, 102 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:29,510 S2: you know, I, I mean, honestly, I, I resonate with it. I, 103 00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:33,070 S2: I go to the gym, you know, pretty regularly. And 104 00:05:33,230 --> 00:05:36,870 S2: I look around the gym and I say, you know, 105 00:05:37,830 --> 00:05:41,190 S2: where did all these old people come from? Of course, 106 00:05:41,190 --> 00:05:44,390 S2: they all come because they get, you know, silver sneakers 107 00:05:44,390 --> 00:05:49,150 S2: or something. But, uh, there is, you know, first of all, 108 00:05:49,150 --> 00:05:51,310 S2: I think on my part, it's, you know, it's just 109 00:05:51,310 --> 00:05:54,960 S2: an act of denial. I look in the mirror and. 110 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,719 S2: And I actually don't even really see my father. You know, because, 111 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,000 S2: you know, because now I'm, I'm like, uh, about ten 112 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:08,520 S2: years older than he was, you know, when he passed. So, uh, but, 113 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,040 S2: but I see like, who is who is that old 114 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,200 S2: man who is looking at me who looks like my dad? 115 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,120 S2: So there is part of it. On the one hand, 116 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,719 S2: there's a part of it that is, is sort of like, uh, 117 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:25,000 S2: the inner youth is wrestling with, uh, the reality. And 118 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,000 S2: I also think that there is underlying that some of 119 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,360 S2: the things you're seeing there in the behavior, the slowness, 120 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:40,279 S2: the difficulty grasping the, um, the awkward conversations that there 121 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:45,599 S2: is a reality in Aging's, uh, what should we call 122 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:51,159 S2: it debilitation that we don't really like, we don't like 123 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:56,200 S2: to be reminded of. When we see people who their 124 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,160 S2: faculties are weakening, they're not going as fast, and we're 125 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:02,840 S2: being affected by it because we have to wait patiently 126 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,839 S2: for them. And then and then if it's me standing 127 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,440 S2: behind them, then I'm reminded of like, yeah, that's the 128 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:11,920 S2: way I'm feeling is how the guy behind me is 129 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,200 S2: feeling about me. 130 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,760 S1: So exactly. Yes, you're looking in the mirror in the 131 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,120 S1: rear view. Okay, so that happened when when I laugh 132 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,880 S1: every time I think of this because it's so him. George, 133 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,240 S1: my wife's dad, George, World War two vet, you know, 134 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,680 S1: crusty old guy, he was in his 90s. He was 135 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,440 S1: living at a place, uh, you know, retirement area. Um, 136 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,320 S1: wasn't a well, it wasn't assisted living, but it was 137 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:41,240 S1: close to it. And so they, they would have daily 138 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,240 S1: scheduled things. And my wife went down, you know, just 139 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,000 S1: to visit and to see how he was doing and 140 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:48,760 S1: see if she could take care of things because she 141 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,610 S1: wanted him to get rid of his car because she 142 00:07:50,610 --> 00:07:54,970 S1: didn't want him driving anymore. And so she said, dad, 143 00:07:54,970 --> 00:07:59,210 S1: there's this, uh, Trivial Pursuit thing. And he was great 144 00:07:59,210 --> 00:08:02,090 S1: at that. He could he could remember things from way back. 145 00:08:02,490 --> 00:08:05,650 S1: This trivial pursuit. Uh, we ought to go down and 146 00:08:05,690 --> 00:08:08,330 S1: have you play. And he goes, uh, I don't want 147 00:08:08,330 --> 00:08:11,770 S1: to do that. Why not? Because there's nothing but old 148 00:08:11,770 --> 00:08:15,570 S1: people down there. And everybody there was younger than he was, 149 00:08:15,610 --> 00:08:16,170 S1: you know? 150 00:08:16,210 --> 00:08:16,970 S2: Right. Yeah. 151 00:08:17,010 --> 00:08:18,930 S1: That's that's the denial. 152 00:08:19,170 --> 00:08:23,290 S2: I as long as we're sharing stories of that came 153 00:08:23,290 --> 00:08:27,530 S2: to my mind. My wife Jane, her, her great aunt, 154 00:08:27,570 --> 00:08:29,490 S2: you know, when she, she was in her 80s and 155 00:08:29,490 --> 00:08:31,930 S2: she was very, she, in fact, she lived in, you know, 156 00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:34,809 S2: far into her 90s. In fact, she, she got so 157 00:08:34,809 --> 00:08:38,449 S2: old that one day she was in the doctor's office and, 158 00:08:38,570 --> 00:08:42,730 S2: and the nurses kept peeking in because they, they had 159 00:08:42,730 --> 00:08:45,410 S2: never seen a woman that old. So they, they were 160 00:08:45,410 --> 00:08:47,490 S2: all sort of peeking in just to take a look. Anyway, 161 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:50,090 S2: she was at home and she would get, uh, meals 162 00:08:50,090 --> 00:08:54,970 S2: on wheels. And one day Jane was visiting, and the 163 00:08:55,010 --> 00:08:59,170 S2: Meals on Wheels person came, and, uh, her aunt turns 164 00:08:59,170 --> 00:09:01,890 S2: to her and says, you know, some of these people 165 00:09:01,890 --> 00:09:08,610 S2: who deliver Meals on Wheels are quite elderly. So that 166 00:09:08,610 --> 00:09:11,010 S2: is so yeah, there you go. You know, it's okay. 167 00:09:11,130 --> 00:09:15,490 S1: My mother bought the plan at the local funeral home where, 168 00:09:15,650 --> 00:09:17,730 S1: you know, she took all of the clothes that she 169 00:09:17,730 --> 00:09:20,330 S1: had in, and this is what I want to happen. 170 00:09:20,330 --> 00:09:25,010 S1: And before she could die, the funeral home closed. She 171 00:09:25,050 --> 00:09:28,690 S1: outlived the funeral home. Yeah, we laughed about that. Uh, 172 00:09:28,690 --> 00:09:31,930 S1: and on and on. But here's here's what I want 173 00:09:31,929 --> 00:09:34,130 S1: you to talk about. I want to hear your heart 174 00:09:34,130 --> 00:09:39,650 S1: about how you're processing all this. The life that you 175 00:09:39,650 --> 00:09:43,250 S1: had planned. Yeah. And the life that you are now living. 176 00:09:43,250 --> 00:09:45,210 S1: So let me take a break. We'll come back. Doctor 177 00:09:45,210 --> 00:09:48,460 S1: John Kessler is our guest today. Practicing the Present is 178 00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:50,700 S1: a really good book that we could talk about the 179 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:53,060 S1: whole hour today, but I wanted to deal with this 180 00:09:53,059 --> 00:09:56,660 S1: topic of aging and how we are dealing with it. 181 00:09:56,660 --> 00:10:04,260 S1: Is this what you're dealing with today? (877) 548-3675 is our 182 00:10:04,260 --> 00:10:17,900 S1: number more straight ahead on Moody Radio. This is Chris 183 00:10:17,940 --> 00:10:20,500 S1: Fabry live on Moody Radio. I'm Chris Fabry, we're live. 184 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:23,059 S1: Doctor John Kessler is back. It's been a while since 185 00:10:23,059 --> 00:10:25,540 S1: he's been here. And I asked him the other day, 186 00:10:25,540 --> 00:10:28,900 S1: what's rolling around your soul? And this is what we 187 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:31,460 S1: decided to talk about. And my guess is there's somebody 188 00:10:31,460 --> 00:10:34,220 S1: else who's right in the middle of this on Facebook. 189 00:10:34,260 --> 00:10:37,260 S1: I said, are you struggling with getting older? Not so 190 00:10:37,260 --> 00:10:40,780 S1: much with age, but with how society treats those who 191 00:10:40,780 --> 00:10:45,470 S1: are older. How do you overcome the marginalization the of 192 00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:48,429 S1: these old people are killing me in a sense. How 193 00:10:48,429 --> 00:10:53,710 S1: do you combat the lies about growing older that you're not. 194 00:10:53,870 --> 00:10:58,790 S1: You get marginalized, that you don't mean anything anymore. And, 195 00:10:58,790 --> 00:11:00,510 S1: and one of the reasons why I wanted to do 196 00:11:00,510 --> 00:11:03,470 S1: this is I knew that John would be really open 197 00:11:03,470 --> 00:11:05,949 S1: and honest with us because you were in your emails 198 00:11:05,950 --> 00:11:09,030 S1: back to me, this is this is where you are 199 00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:11,030 S1: and what you are struggling with. So tell me more 200 00:11:11,030 --> 00:11:11,630 S1: about it. 201 00:11:12,309 --> 00:11:14,550 S2: Well, I, I told somebody the other day, I was 202 00:11:14,590 --> 00:11:16,990 S2: we were talking about retirement and I said, you know, 203 00:11:17,030 --> 00:11:21,950 S2: sometimes it feels like I'm disappearing and, and I am, 204 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:25,309 S2: and I'm not struggling really so much with how society 205 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:29,510 S2: treats me because basically society ignores me, you know? So 206 00:11:29,630 --> 00:11:34,069 S2: I'm okay with that. It's the way I think about myself. And, 207 00:11:34,830 --> 00:11:38,110 S2: and I'm, I'm thinking about it on two levels. You know, 208 00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:42,429 S2: the one level where I'm wrestling is like, well, what 209 00:11:42,429 --> 00:11:46,950 S2: does it mean for me to be a person, and especially, 210 00:11:46,950 --> 00:11:49,190 S2: what does it mean for me to be a follower 211 00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:53,110 S2: of Jesus in the life that I live now, where 212 00:11:53,150 --> 00:11:55,630 S2: I'm not really doing any of the things that I 213 00:11:55,630 --> 00:12:00,510 S2: did for decades that I thought of as serving him. 214 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:06,630 S2: And I, you know, I, you know, to be frankly, 215 00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:11,590 S2: to be frank with, you know, pretty much ignored in church, 216 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:15,030 S2: you know, and so I go to church, you know, 217 00:12:15,070 --> 00:12:19,310 S2: I sit down and go out and, and even the 218 00:12:19,309 --> 00:12:22,910 S2: things that I wanted to, that I used to love 219 00:12:22,910 --> 00:12:25,630 S2: to do, I find that many of them I don't, 220 00:12:25,630 --> 00:12:29,750 S2: I don't want to do those things anymore. So what, 221 00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:33,190 S2: what does it mean? You know, I hate all the music, 222 00:12:33,230 --> 00:12:37,030 S2: you know, what does it mean for me to live 223 00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:40,150 S2: for Jesus in this space that I'm in? And then, 224 00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:44,800 S2: of course, that inevitably He drives me back to what 225 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,360 S2: I was doing, what was my, what was my my 226 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:54,760 S2: history of ministry and work and my family life. And 227 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,920 S2: then I begin to compare, as your title suggests, the 228 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,040 S2: life I lived with, the life that I expected. So, 229 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:07,880 S2: you know, retirement, the term suggests, right? But it's also 230 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,400 S2: a time for reflection. And I think that's common as 231 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,720 S2: we get older. And one of the challenges you face 232 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,600 S2: is coming to terms with that gap that exists between 233 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,080 S2: the life we lived and the life we planned for ourselves. And, 234 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,280 S2: you know, when we're in the building years, we're mainly 235 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,480 S2: thinking about goals and expectations. So our motto is the 236 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:30,440 S2: watchword of William Carey. Expect great things from God, attempt 237 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,520 S2: great things for God. And in all you know, in 238 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,880 S2: all those years, the only question that really seems to 239 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,079 S2: matter to us is how can I get this done? 240 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,640 S2: How can I accomplish this? and this being the great 241 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:48,600 S2: thing that I'm expecting or attempting in later years, the 242 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:54,200 S2: more thoughtful and I think the more troubling question arises is, well, 243 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:58,000 S2: why did I do that? Or why didn't I do that? 244 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,000 S2: Why wasn't why didn't God open that door? Or if 245 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,199 S2: he what he allowed me to do, why couldn't I 246 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:08,160 S2: do it better? Why couldn't I do it more extensively? 247 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,160 S2: Why didn't he let me do that at all? And so, 248 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,319 S2: you know, then I dream about work, my old job. 249 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:18,200 S2: I dream about it all the time. And it's always 250 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:22,760 S2: a nightmare. I am always, uh, you know, trying to 251 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,800 S2: find my office, trying to find my classroom, trying to 252 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,360 S2: teach a class. I can't find my notes. I told 253 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,320 S2: I was telling my son about it, and he said, 254 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,320 S2: I think maybe you're misreading the meaning of that dream. Uh, 255 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,530 S2: he said, says. Because it's not telling you that that 256 00:14:43,530 --> 00:14:47,730 S2: was your heart's desire and it's gone. It's telling you 257 00:14:47,730 --> 00:14:52,610 S2: that that could not fill your heart, that that really 258 00:14:52,610 --> 00:14:56,050 S2: wasn't what you were longing for. I thought it was 259 00:14:56,050 --> 00:14:57,570 S2: very interesting take on it. 260 00:14:58,050 --> 00:15:01,170 S1: Yeah. Well, I need to have your son on the program. 261 00:15:01,330 --> 00:15:04,330 S2: He sounds like you're really. Yeah, he'd be fine, a philosopher. 262 00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:07,130 S1: Well, and I that was one of my questions is 263 00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:11,130 S1: in dreaming about the job that you no longer have, 264 00:15:11,570 --> 00:15:15,250 S1: are you, in a sense, living. You're not just living 265 00:15:15,250 --> 00:15:18,930 S1: in the past thinking about it. You're dreaming in the past. Yeah. 266 00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:23,490 S1: And that brings up an even deeper sense of what 267 00:15:23,490 --> 00:15:26,810 S1: do I do with what I have now? Because it's 268 00:15:26,810 --> 00:15:31,290 S1: not what I expected or not. It's all about the outcome, 269 00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:34,210 S1: you know? It's all about we we judge our life 270 00:15:34,210 --> 00:15:37,010 S1: by the outcome of what we thought would happen and 271 00:15:37,010 --> 00:15:40,580 S1: what has happened. And then the distance between those two. 272 00:15:40,900 --> 00:15:43,580 S1: And earlier in your life, you think, this is where 273 00:15:43,580 --> 00:15:45,700 S1: I am? This is where I want to be. How 274 00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:48,460 S1: do I get from here to there? And you expect 275 00:15:48,460 --> 00:15:51,820 S1: God to fill in that gap. And when he doesn't, 276 00:15:52,180 --> 00:15:53,460 S1: what do you do with that? 277 00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:56,660 S2: Yeah, it's a very curious thing to me because when 278 00:15:56,660 --> 00:15:59,140 S2: I if I look at it from one angle, you know, 279 00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:03,460 S2: everything that I wanted to do, uh, both in terms 280 00:16:03,460 --> 00:16:08,740 S2: of my life and especially in my calling, you know, to, 281 00:16:08,780 --> 00:16:11,860 S2: to follow Christ, I did it all. You know, I wanted, 282 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:14,820 S2: I wanted to be a pastor. I wanted to be 283 00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:21,380 S2: a teacher. I wanted to be a writer. Uh, so I, 284 00:16:21,420 --> 00:16:24,140 S2: if I look at it from one angle, I feel 285 00:16:24,140 --> 00:16:28,420 S2: like I should be really proud of myself for something. 286 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:31,380 S2: I should look at it and say, wow, that's that's fabulous. 287 00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:34,060 S2: And then I look at it from another angle. And 288 00:16:34,060 --> 00:16:36,500 S2: this is, this is what I find age does for 289 00:16:36,620 --> 00:16:39,340 S2: me that I look at it from an angle and 290 00:16:39,380 --> 00:16:43,300 S2: the sort of the the luster of it falls off, 291 00:16:43,340 --> 00:16:46,220 S2: you know, and I say, well, you yeah, you were, 292 00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:48,980 S2: you were a pastor, but, you know, you pastored a 293 00:16:48,980 --> 00:16:51,740 S2: small church and you weren't as good at as you 294 00:16:51,780 --> 00:16:56,100 S2: think you were, you know. Oh, yeah, you were a professor. But, uh, 295 00:16:56,380 --> 00:16:59,860 S2: you weren't really, you know, you weren't one of the really, 296 00:16:59,860 --> 00:17:03,620 S2: really popular professors and you didn't really get to speak 297 00:17:03,620 --> 00:17:07,020 S2: at all the conferences. And yeah, you were a writer, 298 00:17:07,020 --> 00:17:14,500 S2: but like who, who's reading your books now? So which is, uh, 299 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:16,860 S2: where I'm, where I wrestle with is like, well, is 300 00:17:16,859 --> 00:17:20,540 S2: it just sort of the reality of Ecclesiastes? You know, 301 00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:24,100 S2: that as you age, you begin to see the reality 302 00:17:24,100 --> 00:17:29,219 S2: that all life really is vanity and it's just a breath. And, uh, 303 00:17:29,420 --> 00:17:32,340 S2: the thing that this is God sort of weaning me 304 00:17:32,340 --> 00:17:36,869 S2: off of earth and preparing for me for eternity. Or 305 00:17:36,910 --> 00:17:40,510 S2: is it just depression, you know? Is it just is 306 00:17:40,510 --> 00:17:42,910 S2: it just what happens when you, you know, you get 307 00:17:42,910 --> 00:17:45,470 S2: old and you get grumpy and, uh. 308 00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:49,870 S1: And more self-focused. Yeah. Because if you were only looking 309 00:17:49,869 --> 00:17:54,270 S1: at yourself, then you can get go down that wormhole, 310 00:17:54,310 --> 00:17:56,949 S1: you know, and think more about it. I thank you 311 00:17:56,950 --> 00:18:00,030 S1: for being honest with us, because I think there are 312 00:18:00,030 --> 00:18:02,310 S1: a lot of people who are listening right now are like, yeah, 313 00:18:02,350 --> 00:18:05,949 S1: I'm that's what I'm living here today. And what they 314 00:18:05,990 --> 00:18:09,389 S1: are expecting now for you to do is to give 315 00:18:09,390 --> 00:18:15,790 S1: them three points, three verses, principles of, you know, and, 316 00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:18,750 S1: and do this to fix my life. Because that's what 317 00:18:18,750 --> 00:18:21,710 S1: we are about in the church is we give, we 318 00:18:21,710 --> 00:18:24,630 S1: present the problem, and then we give you the fix. 319 00:18:24,869 --> 00:18:28,350 S1: We give you in in 30 minutes or with this program, 320 00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:32,830 S1: 55 and 54.5, we give you all of the answers 321 00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:36,270 S1: to all of your problems. And my sense is you're 322 00:18:36,270 --> 00:18:37,670 S1: not going to do that today. 323 00:18:38,190 --> 00:18:40,790 S2: No. Except to say yes, the solution is to buy 324 00:18:40,790 --> 00:18:44,990 S2: all my books in multiple copies. You know, uh, that 325 00:18:45,030 --> 00:18:51,070 S2: I really don't think there is a quick fix in this. 326 00:18:51,109 --> 00:18:55,470 S2: You know, that that number one part of it really 327 00:18:55,470 --> 00:19:00,630 S2: is this stripping away that God does, you know, as 328 00:19:00,630 --> 00:19:06,790 S2: we age that things start to fall away and you 329 00:19:06,790 --> 00:19:11,070 S2: are then sort of left naked in the reality that 330 00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:15,990 S2: the only ultimate relationship you have that is meaningful is 331 00:19:15,990 --> 00:19:20,510 S2: the relationship you have with God through Christ. And it's 332 00:19:20,510 --> 00:19:24,230 S2: not I don't mean to diminish, you know, my life 333 00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:26,869 S2: or what God has done through it, because all of 334 00:19:26,869 --> 00:19:29,630 S2: those things I list, those are all real accomplishments. And 335 00:19:29,630 --> 00:19:36,280 S2: they were things that God did in me. But we 336 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,240 S2: when we we kind of get caught up in all 337 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,520 S2: of that. You know, I was thinking, I was thinking 338 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,560 S2: about this notion of the, the, the purpose driven life, 339 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:50,600 S2: you know, and, and I was, uh, which I know, 340 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,800 S2: I know that that was made popular, that the idea 341 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,919 S2: was made popular, but really the notion of living a 342 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:00,480 S2: purposeful life, it's very old, it's very ancient. And I 343 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:05,639 S2: realized that really most of my life was, I feel 344 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:10,720 S2: like has been sort of, uh, focused on these questions, 345 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,399 S2: worrying about my purpose. When I was in college, I 346 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,480 S2: had to find it, you know, and really, basically that 347 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,680 S2: meant was like, who am I going to marry? And 348 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,560 S2: what kind of a job am I? AM I going 349 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,960 S2: to get? And then when I was older, it meant 350 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,600 S2: achieving it, which was a matter of making whatever that 351 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:31,570 S2: vision for my life was a reality. And then when 352 00:20:31,570 --> 00:20:35,570 S2: I retired, you know, that raised all this whole host 353 00:20:35,570 --> 00:20:38,330 S2: of questions, questions not only about what am I supposed 354 00:20:38,330 --> 00:20:41,250 S2: to do now, but the hard question about what I 355 00:20:41,290 --> 00:20:45,610 S2: have been doing for all these years. And the difficulty 356 00:20:45,609 --> 00:20:49,609 S2: is that when purpose becomes our main purpose, we just 357 00:20:49,609 --> 00:20:54,770 S2: end up living on a treadmill. And I contrast that 358 00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:59,609 S2: with the answer to the question from the Westminster confession 359 00:20:59,609 --> 00:21:02,890 S2: what is the chief end of man? Man's chief end 360 00:21:02,930 --> 00:21:06,889 S2: is to glorify God and enjoy him forever. That's a 361 00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:10,690 S2: very different outlook. And in a sense, now I've come 362 00:21:10,690 --> 00:21:13,010 S2: to this point and say, well, there it is. That's 363 00:21:13,050 --> 00:21:16,330 S2: that's all I have in front of me is the 364 00:21:16,330 --> 00:21:21,449 S2: opportunity to glorify God in a world that basically says, 365 00:21:21,490 --> 00:21:26,370 S2: you know, your value depends on what you produce. Your 366 00:21:26,369 --> 00:21:29,250 S2: value depends on what you can do for us and 367 00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:32,170 S2: from where we sit doesn't really look like you could 368 00:21:32,170 --> 00:21:33,250 S2: do all that much. 369 00:21:34,890 --> 00:21:39,729 S1: Bingo. Bingo. So all along, like the dream and the 370 00:21:39,730 --> 00:21:43,410 S1: way that your son couched it. The truth of what 371 00:21:43,410 --> 00:21:46,490 S1: you're living right now, what you're saying and what you're 372 00:21:46,490 --> 00:21:51,290 S1: processing about the judgment that you have on your life 373 00:21:51,770 --> 00:21:55,929 S1: can be flipped around. If you say, might the chief, 374 00:21:56,090 --> 00:22:01,410 S1: the only thing that will truly give me lasting purpose 375 00:22:01,410 --> 00:22:05,890 S1: and meaning in my life and, uh, happiness. I don't 376 00:22:05,890 --> 00:22:10,930 S1: like that word. But joy is to see that the 377 00:22:11,210 --> 00:22:14,970 S1: my chief end is to glorify him and enjoy him, 378 00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:19,010 S1: and that he delights in me. That's the other question 379 00:22:19,010 --> 00:22:22,330 S1: that I thought of you is like, do you see 380 00:22:22,490 --> 00:22:26,010 S1: his delight in what you did as a pastor, what 381 00:22:26,010 --> 00:22:28,740 S1: you did as a professor, what you have done as 382 00:22:28,740 --> 00:22:31,939 S1: an author and still are doing. Do I sense. 383 00:22:31,940 --> 00:22:34,939 S2: That? That's a really interesting question, and I'm going to 384 00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:38,820 S2: give you an honest answer. I think he doesn't care. Uh, 385 00:22:39,060 --> 00:22:41,460 S2: not in the way that I care about it in 386 00:22:41,500 --> 00:22:44,900 S2: this regard. I'm not saying that it's meaningless. Again, I 387 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:49,060 S2: think what I did, you know, in terms of being 388 00:22:49,060 --> 00:22:52,740 S2: a pastor and being a teacher and being a writer, 389 00:22:53,060 --> 00:22:57,379 S2: I did those things out of what I felt was 390 00:22:57,420 --> 00:23:02,580 S2: a call from God. It was vocational. Um, and I 391 00:23:02,619 --> 00:23:05,980 S2: felt that God enabled me and helped me to do 392 00:23:05,980 --> 00:23:10,139 S2: them with some level of skill. But none of those 393 00:23:10,140 --> 00:23:13,020 S2: things in terms of the performance of them, none of 394 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:16,180 S2: those things was as important to God as they were 395 00:23:16,180 --> 00:23:21,060 S2: to me in this respect. I wanted I wanted to, 396 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:24,020 S2: you know, I wanted to pastor a certain kind of church. 397 00:23:24,020 --> 00:23:26,990 S2: I wanted to be successful. I wanted to preach to 398 00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:33,190 S2: large crowds. I wanted to be a popular teacher. And, 399 00:23:33,470 --> 00:23:36,550 S2: you know, I wished my class could be the one 400 00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:40,869 S2: that you couldn't get into because so many people wanted 401 00:23:40,869 --> 00:23:43,750 S2: to get into it. And I wanted to be a 402 00:23:44,150 --> 00:23:48,390 S2: successful writer. And, you know, and I wanted to be 403 00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:53,790 S2: a best seller who doesn't. And, uh, I could tell 404 00:23:53,910 --> 00:23:57,310 S2: that that just was not interested. God was not interested 405 00:23:57,310 --> 00:24:03,109 S2: in that. That's not was that was not his agenda yet. Never. No, 406 00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:04,870 S2: I don't honestly, I don't believe it. 407 00:24:04,950 --> 00:24:05,430 S1: But John. 408 00:24:05,790 --> 00:24:07,910 S3: You you have no idea. And here's what. 409 00:24:08,150 --> 00:24:12,350 S1: Charles Martin is a fiction writer and he he has said, 410 00:24:12,510 --> 00:24:18,510 S1: I picture in heaven a library and walking in to God, 411 00:24:18,550 --> 00:24:21,830 S1: bringing me into the library and him having my books 412 00:24:21,830 --> 00:24:25,510 S1: on there and, and saying, this is what I really 413 00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:27,710 S1: liked about this one. And this is what. And can 414 00:24:27,710 --> 00:24:32,629 S1: you imagine, uh, somebody, even the book that we have featured, 415 00:24:32,670 --> 00:24:36,790 S1: the featured resource practicing the present. Can you imagine in heaven, 416 00:24:36,790 --> 00:24:40,389 S1: walking into a room and seeing the people who were 417 00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:44,949 S1: deeply touched by the thing that you were thinking about 418 00:24:44,950 --> 00:24:47,790 S1: and working through and putting on the page as the 419 00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:51,110 S1: best that you could, could you? Can you imagine the 420 00:24:51,109 --> 00:24:54,270 S1: people who are in that room without making a joke 421 00:24:54,270 --> 00:24:56,790 S1: about it and saying, it's a telephone book? Okay, don't 422 00:24:56,790 --> 00:25:00,070 S1: do that. But can you imagine the feeling that you 423 00:25:00,070 --> 00:25:04,990 S1: would have when God shows his delight about what he 424 00:25:05,230 --> 00:25:06,710 S1: enabled you to do? 425 00:25:06,750 --> 00:25:10,590 S2: Okay, I really appreciate that suggestion, but I'm going to 426 00:25:10,590 --> 00:25:13,070 S2: give you my my blunt and honest answer. 427 00:25:13,109 --> 00:25:14,750 S1: Okay? Wait. Don't give it to me. Don't give it 428 00:25:14,750 --> 00:25:16,869 S1: to me. Okay, take a break. And when we come back, 429 00:25:17,109 --> 00:25:19,669 S1: you've got to be back here for Doctor John Kesler's 430 00:25:19,670 --> 00:25:22,030 S1: blunt answer to that, and I want to hear from 431 00:25:22,030 --> 00:25:25,119 S1: you is what we're saying. Is there anybody in the 432 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,080 S1: sound of our voice who's resonating with what we're talking 433 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:31,600 S1: about here, with aging and living the life that you 434 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,240 S1: have now versus the one that you had planned? Is 435 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:42,280 S1: there a gulf in between there? Here's the number (877) 548-3675. 436 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:49,600 S1: I want to hear your voice today. 877548367. Five more 437 00:25:49,600 --> 00:26:04,680 S1: straight ahead. Real life real hard issues. That's what we 438 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,280 S1: tackle every day at the radio backyard fence. And thank 439 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,639 S1: you for your support of the program. Two four and 440 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,040 S1: from the heart, I thank you. This month, as we've 441 00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,560 S1: been saying, is the book, the Historical Look at 100 442 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,920 S1: Years of Moody Radio. Just go to the website, Chris relive.org. 443 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,280 S1: Scroll down and you'll see it right there. I'd love 444 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,200 S1: to send you a copy and thanks for your generosity 445 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,280 S1: here in July. Chris Fabbri live.org, where you'll also find 446 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,520 S1: out about Doctor Jon Kessler. Our featured resource from him 447 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,320 S1: is practicing the present. And click through the information right 448 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,240 S1: there and you can find out more about that. Okay. 449 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,840 S1: I did not talk with Doctor Kessler. I do not 450 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,560 S1: know what he's what he is going to say. But 451 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,560 S1: I set it up. You know, in heaven God brings 452 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,399 S1: you in or Jesus brings you in and he shows 453 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,199 S1: you the books that you have written and the way 454 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,880 S1: that he has, through his spirit, helped you put this 455 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,800 S1: on the page. And you've got people there who've responded 456 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,800 S1: to it, his delight with what you have done with 457 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720 S1: who you are. What do you say about that? 458 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:14,800 S2: Well, first of all, I had that fantasy. Like just yesterday. 459 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,720 S2: I seriously did. I, I, I thought, oh, what if, 460 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,490 S2: you know, what if I met Jesus and he had 461 00:27:23,490 --> 00:27:27,409 S2: my books, and he started to go through them and say, oh, 462 00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:31,690 S2: this is my favorite passage. You're such a good writer. And, uh, 463 00:27:31,970 --> 00:27:36,170 S2: I concluded that like, that is all wrong. And I'll 464 00:27:36,170 --> 00:27:36,810 S2: tell you why. 465 00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:37,610 S1: Okay. 466 00:27:37,770 --> 00:27:41,810 S2: Because it's all about me. I, when I meet Christ, 467 00:27:42,050 --> 00:27:44,650 S2: when I meet Christ, I want it to be all 468 00:27:44,650 --> 00:27:50,730 S2: about him. However, first Corinthians four five says this therefore 469 00:27:50,770 --> 00:27:55,690 S2: judge nothing before the appointed time. Wait until the Lord comes. 470 00:27:56,210 --> 00:27:59,130 S2: He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness 471 00:27:59,130 --> 00:28:03,050 S2: and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time. 472 00:28:03,330 --> 00:28:07,650 S2: Each will receive their praise from God. Now is that 473 00:28:07,650 --> 00:28:11,250 S2: a promise or is it a threat? You know he's 474 00:28:11,250 --> 00:28:14,609 S2: going to expose the motives of each heart. I think 475 00:28:14,609 --> 00:28:18,369 S2: it's a promise, and I think it is a promise 476 00:28:18,410 --> 00:28:23,060 S2: to those who are in Christ, that what will happen 477 00:28:23,500 --> 00:28:26,460 S2: in judgment for those who belong to Christ is. They 478 00:28:26,460 --> 00:28:30,660 S2: will see the true value of what they have done, 479 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:34,700 S2: because that that value does not come from them. It is. 480 00:28:35,020 --> 00:28:39,740 S2: It comes from what Christ has invested in them. It's 481 00:28:40,140 --> 00:28:43,380 S2: like our worship. It is our worship that everything that 482 00:28:43,380 --> 00:28:47,940 S2: we do, everything that we offer, we give to Christ, 483 00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:52,540 S2: and he presents it to the father on our behalf. 484 00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:56,780 S2: And it is somehow it is because it is transformed 485 00:28:56,780 --> 00:29:01,060 S2: by his grace and his glory. It becomes more than 486 00:29:01,060 --> 00:29:03,180 S2: we could imagine that it really is. 487 00:29:03,540 --> 00:29:05,940 S1: But isn't that part of isn't that part of what 488 00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:09,180 S1: we then offer to him? Because the parallel passage that 489 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:13,220 S1: I was thinking of is Ephesians. Uh, you're saved by 490 00:29:13,220 --> 00:29:16,100 S1: grace through faith. This is not of yourselves. It's God's 491 00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:18,900 S1: gift not from works so that no one can boast. 492 00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:24,220 S1: For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for 493 00:29:24,220 --> 00:29:27,860 S1: good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us 494 00:29:27,860 --> 00:29:32,260 S1: to do. So that scene in the in the library is. 495 00:29:32,740 --> 00:29:37,100 S1: These are the good works created that I created you 496 00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:41,980 S1: to do, that you accomplished to my glory. So it's 497 00:29:41,980 --> 00:29:45,380 S1: not all about you. It really does all go back 498 00:29:45,380 --> 00:29:46,820 S1: to him, right? 499 00:29:46,820 --> 00:29:51,780 S2: Because it is the the work is his workmanship. And 500 00:29:51,780 --> 00:29:54,340 S2: I do think in that sense that that is one 501 00:29:54,340 --> 00:30:00,140 S2: of the things that happens, um, in judgment in, you know, 502 00:30:00,180 --> 00:30:04,780 S2: for the Christian that we, we, we see the, the right, the, 503 00:30:04,780 --> 00:30:08,380 S2: the whole picture, we see the, the value of what 504 00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:11,580 S2: was done. In fact, we see the things that really 505 00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:13,540 S2: were done. One of the things that one of the 506 00:30:13,540 --> 00:30:18,790 S2: lessons I learned from Paul's warning in first Corinthians is 507 00:30:18,790 --> 00:30:21,430 S2: that we are really not in a position at this 508 00:30:21,430 --> 00:30:25,870 S2: point to evaluate how we have served and what we 509 00:30:25,870 --> 00:30:28,950 S2: have done. And that's what Paul says to the Corinthians. 510 00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:32,790 S2: I don't even judge myself because I don't have the 511 00:30:32,790 --> 00:30:38,190 S2: perspective to understand, to see what God was really doing. 512 00:30:38,230 --> 00:30:41,470 S2: That same thing is true with the the harder question 513 00:30:41,870 --> 00:30:44,550 S2: that lies behind the, you know, the way that we 514 00:30:44,590 --> 00:30:47,310 S2: frame the conversation, the life that we lived and the 515 00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:50,630 S2: life that we wanted. You know, there are, what would 516 00:30:50,630 --> 00:30:54,670 S2: we call them, you know, darker issues of, of tragedies, 517 00:30:54,670 --> 00:30:58,390 S2: of disappointments, of, you know, why didn't my kids turn 518 00:30:58,390 --> 00:31:01,950 S2: out the way I wanted them to? Or why do I, 519 00:31:01,990 --> 00:31:04,590 S2: why do I have that, you know, long space in 520 00:31:04,590 --> 00:31:09,710 S2: my life where I made choices that now I regret 521 00:31:09,870 --> 00:31:12,390 S2: and I can't go back. I lived the life that 522 00:31:12,390 --> 00:31:15,310 S2: I lived and I can't there's no do over there, 523 00:31:15,750 --> 00:31:22,350 S2: you know that we will see this overarching goodness and 524 00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:28,110 S2: grace of God in Christ that draws all of that 525 00:31:28,110 --> 00:31:31,710 S2: into the redemptive work of Christ, and we will see 526 00:31:31,710 --> 00:31:35,030 S2: it differently. And and in the end, all we will 527 00:31:35,030 --> 00:31:40,790 S2: see is redemption and glory because of Christ. And, um. 528 00:31:41,270 --> 00:31:43,910 S1: That's Doctor John Kessler. I got Debbie on the line. 529 00:31:43,910 --> 00:31:45,950 S1: Debbie wants to talk to you. Hi, Debbie. Why did 530 00:31:45,950 --> 00:31:46,710 S1: you call today? 531 00:31:47,870 --> 00:31:50,830 S4: Hi, Chris. Yes, I just wanted to share that five 532 00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:54,630 S4: years ago, my husband passed away after 50 years of marriage, 533 00:31:55,030 --> 00:32:00,190 S4: very suddenly not sick. And of course, it was extremely difficult. 534 00:32:00,190 --> 00:32:04,430 S4: The hardest thing I've ever gone through. Um, but I 535 00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:08,870 S4: found a new church after he passed, and I just 536 00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:11,950 S4: got so connected with Christ. I was a born again 537 00:32:11,950 --> 00:32:16,640 S4: Christian before that, but not truly living in the spirit. Um, 538 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,240 S4: and so now for 3 or 4 years, I've just 539 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:25,600 S4: had the most incredible relationship with Christ. The best years 540 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,680 S4: of my life have been these last 3 or 4 years. 541 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,000 S4: And I just wouldn't even exchange. If I could have 542 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,920 S4: my husband back, I wouldn't exchange them for these beautiful 543 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,880 S4: years with God. And I know that my husband's in heaven, 544 00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,320 S4: and I know that I'm living with Christ here, and 545 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,160 S4: it's just the best of all worlds. 546 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,760 S1: Wow. Okay, let me ask you a question. Did you 547 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,400 S1: go to the new church because it was too hard 548 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:57,560 S1: to go to the the old church? Uh, why did 549 00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,640 S1: you choose that one? 550 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,880 S4: Yeah, I understand. Actually, no, um, I we weren't regularly 551 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,920 S4: attending anywhere. Um, we were for a while. It was 552 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,880 S4: kind of a milquetoast. 553 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:11,680 S1: Yeah. 554 00:33:11,730 --> 00:33:14,970 S4: Relationship with Christ at that time. We, you know, we 555 00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:18,730 S4: were Christians, but we weren't living for him. Our life 556 00:33:18,730 --> 00:33:23,010 S4: hadn't changed in any great way. Um, so no, this 557 00:33:23,010 --> 00:33:26,090 S4: was just a, a new church in my town. And 558 00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:29,650 S4: it was actually a new church in the town. So I. 559 00:33:29,690 --> 00:33:30,930 S1: Can hear the vibrancy. 560 00:33:31,370 --> 00:33:31,729 S4: Out. 561 00:33:31,770 --> 00:33:34,570 S1: I can hear the verve in your voice. John. What 562 00:33:34,570 --> 00:33:35,209 S1: do you say? 563 00:33:35,730 --> 00:33:39,290 S2: Well, I'd say Debbie's a good example of the fact 564 00:33:39,290 --> 00:33:44,050 S2: that you're. It's never too late to open your heart 565 00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:48,450 S2: and your life to Christ, and you know, you can have. 566 00:33:48,930 --> 00:33:53,610 S2: That's why looking back becomes can become such a trap, particularly, 567 00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:56,650 S2: you know, when we look back at our mistakes and, 568 00:33:57,010 --> 00:33:59,970 S2: and the way that things we wish we hadn't done, 569 00:34:00,250 --> 00:34:03,090 S2: we fail to see the path that lies in front 570 00:34:03,090 --> 00:34:06,050 S2: of us and that we can really maybe I, maybe 571 00:34:06,090 --> 00:34:12,650 S2: I haven't had a great relationship with Christ for for decades. 572 00:34:12,850 --> 00:34:16,450 S2: He's waiting. He's there. His arms are wide open. And 573 00:34:16,450 --> 00:34:20,690 S2: you can have. It's not going to keep you. Whatever 574 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:23,010 S2: the past was, it will not keep you from having 575 00:34:23,010 --> 00:34:28,450 S2: a profoundly deep relationship with him now, no matter when 576 00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:31,370 S2: you turn to him. So that's a great story. 577 00:34:31,370 --> 00:34:33,850 S1: I'm glad you got through, Debbie. Somebody needed to hear 578 00:34:33,850 --> 00:34:37,410 S1: that story from you today. And Charles is on the 579 00:34:37,410 --> 00:34:40,570 S1: line now. Charles is a little concerned about you, Doctor Kessler. 580 00:34:40,570 --> 00:34:42,370 S1: Let's talk with him. Hey, Charles. 581 00:34:42,410 --> 00:34:43,650 S2: You're not the only one. 582 00:34:43,690 --> 00:34:44,130 S1: Yeah. 583 00:34:45,370 --> 00:34:52,810 S5: Um. As I listened to your talk and Chris Kessler, 584 00:34:53,010 --> 00:34:57,690 S5: we're the same age. Um, I'm pastoring a small church 585 00:34:57,730 --> 00:35:03,890 S5: as well as working a secular job, and I, I 586 00:35:04,050 --> 00:35:07,770 S5: kind of there's a couple of thoughts that I had 587 00:35:07,770 --> 00:35:13,180 S5: was the, the walk of faith. I mean, as you've 588 00:35:13,180 --> 00:35:16,419 S5: done what you've done, you've touched many lives, I think, 589 00:35:16,420 --> 00:35:20,140 S5: of the students that you've pastored because that's what you 590 00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:23,460 S5: really did, even though you were a professor, as well 591 00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:29,140 S5: as pastoring and the fulfillment of all of that. Even now, 592 00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:33,260 S5: as you're not doing the same thing, you still are. 593 00:35:34,140 --> 00:35:37,940 S5: And I just see it as a huge walk of faith. 594 00:35:37,940 --> 00:35:42,259 S5: And I just be honest with, with you, brother, I 595 00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:47,339 S5: was kind of a little bothered to sound that you 596 00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:52,459 S5: sounded like you kind of were not happy with where 597 00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:53,660 S5: things ended up. 598 00:35:54,660 --> 00:36:00,020 S2: Well, I appreciate that, Charles. And, and, uh, I take 599 00:36:00,020 --> 00:36:02,259 S2: a couple of things. One is I think I'm probably 600 00:36:02,260 --> 00:36:05,380 S2: not that happy. You know, I think in one sense, 601 00:36:05,380 --> 00:36:09,420 S2: there is a I won't deny that there's an unsettledness. 602 00:36:09,780 --> 00:36:13,020 S2: You know that I wrestle with. Which is probably, uh, 603 00:36:13,820 --> 00:36:17,980 S2: just part of my nature. But I, I have also 604 00:36:17,980 --> 00:36:22,259 S2: learned that one of the things that happens is, as 605 00:36:22,260 --> 00:36:25,020 S2: you describe it, that, you know, I am still the 606 00:36:25,020 --> 00:36:30,140 S2: same person in many respects doing the same things. Uh, 607 00:36:31,219 --> 00:36:35,020 S2: and the scale may not, the scale may be different, 608 00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:38,219 S2: you know? So I still teach a Bible study with a, 609 00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:41,700 S2: you know, a small group of friends. That's how I 610 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:46,859 S2: began my, uh, serving Christ. My wife, Jane likes to 611 00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:49,140 S2: remind me of that, that, you know, she met me 612 00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:51,660 S2: in a Bible study. I was leading a Bible study 613 00:36:52,060 --> 00:36:55,060 S2: when I began to follow Christ. And now that I'm 614 00:36:55,060 --> 00:36:59,820 S2: on whatever this last slope is, uh, into glory, you know, 615 00:36:59,860 --> 00:37:02,500 S2: I'm doing the thing I was doing at the beginning. 616 00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:07,590 S2: That's that's a good thing, really. But there is always 617 00:37:07,590 --> 00:37:10,509 S2: that part of me that says, well, you know, you know, 618 00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:15,350 S2: you could there could be thousands. So, uh, but no, 619 00:37:15,350 --> 00:37:18,270 S2: you're right. I mean, I think you're right that it is. 620 00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:22,310 S2: And you're. Charles, you're right also to say that the 621 00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:25,750 S2: heart of it is a matter of faith that. And 622 00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:27,590 S2: I think that's one of the things that I really 623 00:37:27,590 --> 00:37:31,670 S2: want to emphasize is that it isn't a performance. It 624 00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:37,790 S2: isn't the scale. It really is that sense of trust 625 00:37:38,190 --> 00:37:43,070 S2: in Christ. And to allow him to use you in 626 00:37:43,070 --> 00:37:47,670 S2: whatever way that he sees fit, you know? Yes. And, uh, so. 627 00:37:47,710 --> 00:37:51,390 S1: That's why I like the Psalms, you know, because the Psalms. 628 00:37:51,590 --> 00:37:54,350 S1: And I think that's. And Charles, thank you for your call. 629 00:37:54,550 --> 00:37:58,950 S1: I think that's what you're bringing to us is the Psalm. 630 00:37:58,950 --> 00:38:02,029 S1: It's not the is it Psalm 90 or 91, the 631 00:38:02,030 --> 00:38:08,319 S1: one about the old age? Yeah. Psalm 9090. Um, if you, 632 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,360 S1: you had to be where you are, you know, and 633 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:14,720 S1: the psalmist, I was reading Psalm 22 this morning and 634 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:19,000 S1: which begins, My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? 635 00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:23,120 S1: Which is what Jesus cried from the cross and identified 636 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:27,080 S1: with and had been reading through Spurgeon's. Uh, look at 637 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,000 S1: the Psalms very in depth. And in, uh, today's reading 638 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:37,120 S1: he says, this is true wrestling. Let us learn the art, 639 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:44,319 S1: observe the ancient saints who, um, cried and trusted, and 640 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,480 S1: that in times of trouble, we must do the same. 641 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,480 S1: And the invariable result was they were not ashamed of 642 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,800 S1: their hope, for deliverance came in due time. Um and 643 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,040 S1: but for some in the middle of it listening right now, 644 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:03,960 S1: it's like deliverance hasn't come. And I've been crying out 645 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:07,879 S1: for it. You can't be somewhere where you aren't. And 646 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,520 S1: that's what we're talking about with Doctor John Kessler today. 647 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:15,560 S1: Practicing the present is our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org. 648 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,319 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. You can answer the question we have 649 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,520 S1: for you on Facebook today. We'd love to hear from 650 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:30,239 S1: you at (877) 548-3675. Our remaining moments straight ahead on Moody Radio. 651 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,520 S1: I just got a voicemail from someone who said, thanks 652 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,879 S1: for having Jay Kessler on the program. And remember Jay Kessler? Oh, 653 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,280 S1: I love Jay Kessler, but this is Doctor John Kessler. Um, 654 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,000 S1: no relation. I don't believe uh, and he said, you 655 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,239 S1: are describing my life and I am looking for the 656 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,400 S1: three points, the three principles, you know, to please fix 657 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,569 S1: my life for me. He said that jokingly, but I 658 00:40:05,570 --> 00:40:09,770 S1: think where he is, where this caller is, where you 659 00:40:09,770 --> 00:40:12,450 S1: and I both are. John, as we're looking at this, 660 00:40:12,450 --> 00:40:15,610 S1: looking deeply at this. Most people live lives of quiet 661 00:40:15,610 --> 00:40:20,169 S1: desperation that we fill with scrolling. We fill up with 662 00:40:20,170 --> 00:40:22,570 S1: something else so that we don't have to think about this. 663 00:40:22,890 --> 00:40:26,250 S1: And the main thing that the bottom of this well, 664 00:40:26,290 --> 00:40:30,170 S1: or this circle that we go down is the question 665 00:40:30,210 --> 00:40:34,610 S1: of identity. Who am I really? And that's why I 666 00:40:34,610 --> 00:40:38,330 S1: wanted to get here in this segment. So talk about 667 00:40:38,330 --> 00:40:39,490 S1: that identity. 668 00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:43,690 S2: Yeah. First you have to ask yourself like, well, what, 669 00:40:43,690 --> 00:40:46,969 S2: what is it that shapes identity? What are the what 670 00:40:46,969 --> 00:40:51,649 S2: are the markers of identity? And it's really a confluence 671 00:40:51,650 --> 00:40:54,850 S2: of several things. It's not just one thing, at least 672 00:40:54,850 --> 00:40:58,569 S2: in terms of experience, right? It's birth. It's look, it's 673 00:40:58,570 --> 00:41:02,850 S2: where you're located. It's Affiliation, and one of the major 674 00:41:03,250 --> 00:41:07,610 S2: markers has to do with what we call vocation or calling. 675 00:41:07,650 --> 00:41:10,290 S2: I mean, if you think about your interactions with people 676 00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:13,250 S2: who you just meet, one of the first questions that 677 00:41:13,250 --> 00:41:16,689 S2: you are usually asked is, well, what do you do? Well, 678 00:41:16,690 --> 00:41:18,850 S2: what are they saying? What are they really asking? I 679 00:41:18,850 --> 00:41:21,489 S2: think what they're really asking is, you know, who are you? 680 00:41:21,530 --> 00:41:25,250 S2: They're trying to they're trying to locate you. Well, what 681 00:41:25,250 --> 00:41:28,370 S2: happens when you can no longer do what you've done 682 00:41:28,370 --> 00:41:31,969 S2: for so many years? I think there's a couple of things. 683 00:41:31,969 --> 00:41:36,049 S2: One is muscle memory that you miss. There's something about, 684 00:41:36,090 --> 00:41:39,090 S2: you know, you inside of you that misses the rhythm, 685 00:41:39,090 --> 00:41:43,009 S2: that misses the work. But I think your psyche also 686 00:41:43,050 --> 00:41:49,450 S2: misses the identity that that offers. So so for, for 687 00:41:49,489 --> 00:41:53,210 S2: the guy, for the our friend in the voicemail. Here's the, 688 00:41:53,250 --> 00:41:57,489 S2: here's the principle. You know, here's the key. We are 689 00:41:57,489 --> 00:42:02,060 S2: more than what we do. But we come to these 690 00:42:02,060 --> 00:42:05,660 S2: places and, you know, the one that we are most 691 00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:09,060 S2: familiar with is what happens in adolescence, where we're trying 692 00:42:09,060 --> 00:42:12,420 S2: to figure out who we are in later life. Something 693 00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:15,540 S2: similar happens where now I don't know who I am 694 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:18,860 S2: because I no longer do the things that I used 695 00:42:18,860 --> 00:42:22,859 S2: to do. Um, there's this, uh, I mentioned him to you. 696 00:42:22,860 --> 00:42:25,900 S2: There's an interesting blogger on Substack who calls himself the 697 00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:30,980 S2: Old Gray Thinker, and he wrote a post about identity 698 00:42:30,980 --> 00:42:34,620 S2: and I thought it was brilliant. He said, uh, in 699 00:42:34,620 --> 00:42:36,940 S2: one of his posts, he describes how for 40 years 700 00:42:36,940 --> 00:42:39,660 S2: he thought of himself as a captain because that's what 701 00:42:39,660 --> 00:42:42,300 S2: he did for a living. And he writes, I didn't 702 00:42:42,340 --> 00:42:46,260 S2: own my identity. I understand now, I was renting it, 703 00:42:46,260 --> 00:42:48,819 S2: the system was leasing it to me in exchange for 704 00:42:48,820 --> 00:42:52,580 S2: my work, my time, my years. While I was useful 705 00:42:52,739 --> 00:42:55,420 S2: to the system, I got to use the identity. The 706 00:42:55,420 --> 00:42:58,830 S2: moment the lease ended, the identity returned to the system, 707 00:42:58,830 --> 00:43:02,630 S2: and I felt a shock of recognition when I read it. 708 00:43:03,070 --> 00:43:05,870 S2: And then I also thought of something that my colleague 709 00:43:05,870 --> 00:43:10,830 S2: Pam McCray, who teaches at Moody Bible Institute, talked about 710 00:43:10,870 --> 00:43:14,670 S2: the described to me the difficult shift that many women 711 00:43:14,670 --> 00:43:18,469 S2: feel when their children become adults. You know, they have 712 00:43:18,469 --> 00:43:21,469 S2: the sense of self that's been shaped by being a 713 00:43:21,469 --> 00:43:24,430 S2: mother and all that goes with that. And then a 714 00:43:24,430 --> 00:43:27,030 S2: day comes when their children are gone. You know, they're grown, 715 00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:29,109 S2: they're out of the home. And it's not that they're 716 00:43:29,110 --> 00:43:33,390 S2: no longer a mother or even that they're no longer needed. 717 00:43:33,390 --> 00:43:36,830 S2: But that role is no longer the center of gravity 718 00:43:36,830 --> 00:43:39,710 S2: in their lives, and they don't feel needed to the 719 00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:45,350 S2: same degree. And it often, I think, produces a crisis. So, okay, 720 00:43:45,390 --> 00:43:47,910 S2: you know, now we come into these later years and 721 00:43:47,910 --> 00:43:53,390 S2: we're reviewing and assessing, um, where do we get our 722 00:43:53,390 --> 00:43:58,870 S2: identity from? Well, we get it from the same location 723 00:43:58,870 --> 00:44:03,430 S2: that we always have had it, that our identity ultimately 724 00:44:03,430 --> 00:44:08,549 S2: comes in Christ. It's bound up in Christ. So in 725 00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:12,550 S2: Colossians three two through four, Paul says, set your minds 726 00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:15,430 S2: on things above, not on earthly things, for you died, 727 00:44:15,430 --> 00:44:17,950 S2: and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 728 00:44:18,070 --> 00:44:21,790 S2: When Christ, who is your life, appears, you will also 729 00:44:21,790 --> 00:44:26,310 S2: appear with him in glory. And the implication is that glory, 730 00:44:26,310 --> 00:44:28,989 S2: which is his, which he has given to you. You 731 00:44:28,989 --> 00:44:31,430 S2: will share it. It will be reflected in you. That's 732 00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:33,270 S2: who you will. That's what you will be and who 733 00:44:33,310 --> 00:44:36,310 S2: you will be. And I thought of this lovely song 734 00:44:36,310 --> 00:44:40,950 S2: that Keith and Kristyn Getty have done that captures this thought. 735 00:44:41,870 --> 00:44:44,470 S2: People who listen to Moody Radio have heard it, I'm sure. 736 00:44:44,710 --> 00:44:48,629 S2: My worth is not in skill or name, in win 737 00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:51,750 S2: or loss, in pride or shame, but in the blood 738 00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:55,799 S2: of Christ that flowed at the cross. I rejoice in 739 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,359 S2: my Redeemer. Greatest treasure, wellspring of my soul. I will 740 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,880 S2: trust in him no other. My soul is satisfied in 741 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,920 S2: him alone. There's your identity. Yeah. 742 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,160 S1: And that's not a that's not a three step easy 743 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,640 S1: process either. But it is a process. And maybe that's where. 744 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,160 S1: And I've got some other callers and Cathy, I saw 745 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,719 S1: your question. Cathy's in her 70s and she said, I 746 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,880 S1: feel like I'm right. You know, right in the center 747 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,120 S1: of the target of what you're talking about. My purpose, 748 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,359 S1: I don't see it. Is there is there a prayer? 749 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,960 S1: Is there something you say to God in this season 750 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,319 S1: and you ask him for show me my purpose. What 751 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:38,960 S1: do you say? 752 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:45,800 S2: My prayer is Jesus, save me, love me, guide me, 753 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,520 S2: keep me. Amen. 754 00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:54,160 S1: Amen. Indeed, John, thanks for being. I said this to 755 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,279 S1: Anita Lustria yesterday. She was on the program, used to 756 00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,799 S1: do midday connection with us here on Moody Radio, but 757 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,680 S1: I said that the secret sauce of of midday of 758 00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:08,239 S1: that program was the authenticity was the honesty and the safety. 759 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,680 S1: You felt safe when you could you could be with the, 760 00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,960 S1: the folks that talked there. I feel the same thing 761 00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,359 S1: with you coming through here today. You're just being honest 762 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:20,719 S1: with us about the struggle, about the wrestling. Keep doing that, friend. 763 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,360 S1: Keep writing. I'm going to your library party in heaven. Okay. 764 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:26,120 S2: Okay. You're invited. 765 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,279 S1: I'm going to be there with bells. And I hope 766 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,200 S1: you enjoyed the conversation today at the Radio Backyard Fence. 767 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,040 S1: Go to the website Chris Fabry live.org. You'll see more 768 00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,239 S1: about Doctor Kessler, see our resource that we'd love to 769 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:41,920 S1: send you right there. Chris Fabry live.org. Our programs production 770 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,160 S1: of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.