WEBVTT - Hour 2: Questions about the Bible 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.139 Hello, friends. Welcome to the second hour of Open Line 0:00:12.140 --> 0:00:16.760 with me, Michael Jelinek. I'm the professor of Jewish studies 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:19.579 and Bible at Moody Bible Institute, also the academic dean 0:00:19.579 --> 0:00:23.570 in the undergraduate school. And this is Moody Radio's Bible 0:00:23.570 --> 0:00:28.490 study across America. We are together live sitting around the radio, kitchen, 0:00:28.490 --> 0:00:34.220 kitchen table, taking your questions about the Bible, God, and 0:00:34.220 --> 0:00:36.770 the spiritual life. If you have a question, now's a 0:00:36.770 --> 0:00:50.390 great time to call. The phone number is (877) 548-3675. Again (877) 548-3675. 0:00:50.420 --> 0:00:53.030 Before I was mentioning the team, I forgot to mention 0:00:53.030 --> 0:00:56.120 Merle Saint James, who's helping out with engineering today. And 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.500 I want to make sure that we recognize him as well. 0:00:59.530 --> 0:01:03.940 Really appreciate him. And also time. Now go get your 0:01:03.940 --> 0:01:07.990 second cup of coffee, open your Bible because we're going 0:01:08.020 --> 0:01:11.260 to continue studying the scriptures together. Right now we're going 0:01:11.260 --> 0:01:16.750 to talk to Rodney in Springfield, Illinois, listening on Wluw. Jay, 0:01:16.750 --> 0:01:19.539 welcome to Open Line. Rodney, how can I help you today? 0:01:20.620 --> 0:01:24.010 Hi. Thank you. So going back a couple of weeks, 0:01:24.010 --> 0:01:29.260 you were in first Corinthians 14, I believe, and you 0:01:29.260 --> 0:01:34.480 were addressing the hot potato of speaking in tongues. And 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:41.770 so my question is, should we, in our private devotions, 0:01:41.770 --> 0:01:46.809 in our private prayer, should we be consistently speaking in tongues? 0:01:46.810 --> 0:01:48.040 That's my question. 0:01:48.070 --> 0:01:49.690 Is that what you do? 0:01:51.130 --> 0:01:53.559 I do sometimes, yes. 0:01:54.130 --> 0:01:56.290 So not consistently but sometimes. 0:01:57.250 --> 0:02:03.360 Yeah. Not Not every time. Some. Sometimes I pray with understanding. Uh, only, uh, 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.960 it just depends on really how much time that I have. 0:02:07.110 --> 0:02:09.090 You know, if I have a lot of time, then 0:02:09.090 --> 0:02:12.780 I'll spend some time praying in tongues. Um, because my 0:02:12.780 --> 0:02:15.960 understanding is that when do you. 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.860 Interpret for yourself? When you when you do that and. 0:02:19.860 --> 0:02:21.750 No. No. 0:02:22.710 --> 0:02:27.750 Because that's what that verse actually means, where it says that, uh, 0:02:27.780 --> 0:02:31.980 people speak with understanding or pray with, uh, pray without understanding. 0:02:31.980 --> 0:02:36.240 And uh, and then with it basically says, what? Then 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.190 I will pray with the spirit. I will also pray 0:02:38.190 --> 0:02:41.250 with my understanding. We think that sometimes that means I'll 0:02:41.250 --> 0:02:47.040 pray in tongues, and sometimes I'll pray with understanding. It 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.500 doesn't mean that I will sing with the spirit, and 0:02:49.500 --> 0:02:54.210 I will also sing with my understanding. It's not options. 0:02:54.300 --> 0:02:57.980 It's both at the same time. Because how can you 0:02:57.980 --> 0:03:00.529 even say amen to yourself. 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.220 Right? Yes. 0:03:04.250 --> 0:03:07.910 If you don't know what you're saying, you know. 0:03:08.150 --> 0:03:08.900 Correct. 0:03:08.930 --> 0:03:12.350 Yes. That's the point. Correct. The point of this is not. 0:03:12.350 --> 0:03:15.020 I've got two options. I'll choose a and sometimes I'll 0:03:15.020 --> 0:03:19.550 choose B. It's you've got two options both at every time. 0:03:19.730 --> 0:03:23.780 If the if you're going to you know, I think 0:03:23.780 --> 0:03:26.960 what Paul was saying to the Corinthians, if you're going 0:03:26.990 --> 0:03:31.760 to pray in tongues, then you better also understand what 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.690 you're praying and have it have it understood by you 0:03:36.590 --> 0:03:38.060 so that. 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:39.080 Okay. 0:03:39.260 --> 0:03:41.000 Yeah. Can I ask one more quick question? 0:03:41.090 --> 0:03:41.900 Sure. 0:03:41.930 --> 0:03:46.760 Isn't there another place where he says something like, um, 0:03:46.790 --> 0:03:51.440 the person who prays in a in a tongue edifies 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:52.580 his spirit? 0:03:52.610 --> 0:03:55.890 Yeah. Yeah. Edifies himself. 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:57.120 So what does that mean? 0:03:57.150 --> 0:04:01.920 Yeah, for the person who speaks in another language is 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.590 not speaking to men, but to God. Since no one 0:04:04.620 --> 0:04:10.800 understands him, however, he. Uh. Right. Uh, yes. However he 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:12.720 speaks mysteries. And then in verse four it says the 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.050 person who speaks another language builds himself up. Or in 0:04:16.050 --> 0:04:21.210 the old version, edifies himself. But he who prophesies builds 0:04:21.210 --> 0:04:24.240 up the church. Now we say, see, you can edify. 0:04:24.270 --> 0:04:29.250 It's for self edification. Actually, if you read the context, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:32.010 the purpose of all gifts, if you go to first 0:04:32.010 --> 0:04:35.339 Corinthians 12 where he gives the gifts, what is the 0:04:35.339 --> 0:04:38.070 purpose of anyone getting any gift? 0:04:39.150 --> 0:04:40.740 Do you know the building up? 0:04:40.740 --> 0:04:42.390 Building up of the church? 0:04:42.420 --> 0:04:43.020 Exactly. 0:04:43.020 --> 0:04:44.310 The build up of the body. 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:46.500 And so to. 0:04:46.529 --> 0:04:47.369 Maturity. 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.560 Yeah, to build up the body. And so when he 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.740 says the person who prophesies speaks to people for edification 0:04:52.740 --> 0:04:57.020 and encouragement and consolation. He says, when you prophesy, what 0:04:57.020 --> 0:05:00.050 you're doing is you're building up the church. And then 0:05:00.050 --> 0:05:04.250 he says, the person who speaks another language builds himself up. 0:05:04.250 --> 0:05:08.210 That's not a good thing. It defeats the purpose of 0:05:08.210 --> 0:05:11.120 the gift. What he is saying, this is my Michael 0:05:11.300 --> 0:05:17.330 Zelnick paraphrase. The person who speaks in another language without 0:05:17.330 --> 0:05:22.790 interpretation only builds himself up. He's just showing off. 0:05:23.510 --> 0:05:24.830 I've never looked. 0:05:24.830 --> 0:05:26.120 At it that way. 0:05:26.810 --> 0:05:28.940 But that's. 0:05:28.940 --> 0:05:29.960 Interesting. 0:05:29.990 --> 0:05:35.540 But he who prophesies builds up the church. What's the point? 0:05:35.570 --> 0:05:36.260 Yes. 0:05:36.290 --> 0:05:38.690 Of gifts to build up the church. 0:05:39.529 --> 0:05:41.750 Yes. Amen. See what? Uh. 0:05:41.750 --> 0:05:47.990 And so he would discourage again, uh, speaking in a 0:05:47.990 --> 0:05:51.740 language of prayer. If there is, I don't I'm. You know, 0:05:51.790 --> 0:05:54.820 you've heard from me, Rodney, that I don't get mad 0:05:54.820 --> 0:05:58.120 at people for believing in tongues, but I don't think 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.050 that what people are doing today is the biblical, real 0:06:02.050 --> 0:06:08.260 languages of tongues. Uh, however, if it were, they would 0:06:08.260 --> 0:06:11.020 still be not a good thing just to show off 0:06:11.020 --> 0:06:15.070 and and and use your gift if you don't have 0:06:15.070 --> 0:06:19.630 interpretation because you're just showing off, you're just building yourself up. 0:06:20.620 --> 0:06:23.589 I understand that's not the purpose of the gifts of 0:06:23.589 --> 0:06:26.169 the spirit. The purpose of the gifts is to build 0:06:26.170 --> 0:06:26.980 up the body. 0:06:27.010 --> 0:06:29.920 Yeah I agree. So? So, yeah. 0:06:29.950 --> 0:06:34.659 We don't see this really anymore, do we? 0:06:35.589 --> 0:06:38.680 Uh, well, I do see a lot of people who that. Well, 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:43.089 they should, but the reason there isn't real interpretation is 0:06:43.089 --> 0:06:47.860 because everything that we and again, I, I God bless 0:06:47.860 --> 0:06:51.120 everyone who loves the Lord and believes that their tongues 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.760 are legitimate. I am I'm not trying to get into 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:58.080 an argument or a fight, but studies have been done 0:06:58.110 --> 0:07:03.960 on the modern tongues movement, where linguists who can break down, uh, everything. 0:07:03.990 --> 0:07:04.830 Yes. 0:07:05.190 --> 0:07:07.980 Uh, in a language and they can understand what a 0:07:07.980 --> 0:07:09.630 language is, right? 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:10.620 Uh. 0:07:11.010 --> 0:07:14.670 I, I've taught with 3 or 4 different people in 0:07:14.670 --> 0:07:18.420 applied linguistics. We have a wonderful applied linguistics professor now 0:07:18.450 --> 0:07:23.010 who's translated the Bible into an Ethiopian, into an Ethiopian 0:07:23.010 --> 0:07:30.930 tribes mother tongue. Uh, he, uh, he's phenomenal linguists. Uh, now, 0:07:30.930 --> 0:07:34.080 I also in the past, I taught with a guy 0:07:34.110 --> 0:07:39.060 that did it with a Philippine, a Filipino tribe, translated 0:07:39.060 --> 0:07:42.000 the Bible for them. Then he comes and teaches our 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:45.390 future Bible translators how to do linguistics. They can break 0:07:45.390 --> 0:07:49.960 down languages. It's just the most amazing thing. Anyway, linguists 0:07:49.960 --> 0:07:53.350 like that have studied modern tongues and they say it 0:07:53.350 --> 0:07:58.150 is just gibberish. They do not hold the qualities of language. 0:07:58.150 --> 0:08:01.000 The response given is, well, that's because it's a heavenly 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:04.780 language where Paul says in Galatians one, if I speak 0:08:04.780 --> 0:08:06.970 with the tongues of men or of angels. Well, listen, 0:08:06.970 --> 0:08:10.360 you've got a Bible. Have you read the Bible? Sure. Well, 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.670 what do you see when angels talk? Do they speak 0:08:12.670 --> 0:08:13.570 in gibberish? 0:08:15.010 --> 0:08:18.940 They speak in an understood language. Yeah, exactly. 0:08:18.940 --> 0:08:23.830 And, uh, in, in Galatians one, when Paul says, if anyone, 0:08:23.860 --> 0:08:28.570 if anyone preaches another gospel, let him be anathema. In 0:08:28.570 --> 0:08:31.540 other words, if someone distorts the true message, let him 0:08:31.570 --> 0:08:34.030 be anathema. Let him be accursed. And then he says, 0:08:34.030 --> 0:08:39.610 even an angel from heaven, if he speaks another gospel, 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:42.010 let him be accursed. Well, angels don't preach the gospel. 0:08:42.820 --> 0:08:46.750 And secondly, angels from heaven would never distort the gospel. 0:08:47.429 --> 0:08:48.030 Right. 0:08:48.780 --> 0:08:53.670 So what is he doing there? He's using hyperbole, exaggeration, 0:08:54.059 --> 0:08:58.110 the very same thing that he does in first Corinthians 0:08:58.110 --> 0:09:01.380 13 when he says, if I have every imaginable gift, 0:09:01.380 --> 0:09:06.030 even if there were a language of heaven, if I which, 0:09:06.030 --> 0:09:07.860 by the way, it would also a language of heaven 0:09:07.860 --> 0:09:10.830 would have the rules of language. But nevertheless, you know, 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:14.609 even even if I did that, if I don't have love, 0:09:14.610 --> 0:09:18.990 I'm just a clanging bell. Right? So. 0:09:19.020 --> 0:09:19.500 Right. 0:09:19.590 --> 0:09:23.670 The point that he's making is hyperbole. He's not saying 0:09:23.670 --> 0:09:27.270 that there are there are special languages that are unintelligible 0:09:27.300 --> 0:09:33.420 and into linguistics because they're angelic speech. It's not what 0:09:33.420 --> 0:09:37.800 he's saying. He's he's using hyperbole there. And so I 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.890 think it's really important to know that when the gift 0:09:40.890 --> 0:09:44.429 of tongues was first granted at Pentecost, what were they doing? 0:09:44.429 --> 0:09:47.060 They were speaking languages where people from those parts of 0:09:47.059 --> 0:09:52.280 the world understood them. They were real languages, and and 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.340 God is certainly capable of doing that. I don't think 0:09:55.340 --> 0:09:56.929 he's doing it as a gift right now, but he's 0:09:56.929 --> 0:10:00.470 certainly capable of doing it as a miracle. I don't 0:10:00.500 --> 0:10:03.260 I believe God can do miracles, but right now it 0:10:03.260 --> 0:10:06.290 doesn't look like that's happening with the modern tongues movement. 0:10:06.320 --> 0:10:09.410 You know, some people point to Romans eight where it 0:10:09.410 --> 0:10:13.970 says that the Spirit of God intercedes for us. You 0:10:13.970 --> 0:10:17.300 know that that passage I'm talking about, don't you? Right. Uh, 0:10:17.300 --> 0:10:22.760 when with words beyond our ability to speak. You know that, right? 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.840 And so people say that's what tongues is. Listen to 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:31.280 the verse in the same way, the spirit also joins 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.670 to help in our weakness, because we do not know 0:10:34.670 --> 0:10:37.160 what to pray for, as we should. Do you ever 0:10:37.190 --> 0:10:39.260 get to that point? It doesn't always happen, but there 0:10:39.260 --> 0:10:42.290 are times where we're so distraught. So at the end 0:10:42.290 --> 0:10:44.620 of our rope, we don't even know what to pray 0:10:44.620 --> 0:10:49.480 for anymore. At that time, what happens? The spirit himself 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:56.920 intercedes for us. Now listen with unspoken groanings. Yeah. That 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:01.270 means it's not spoken. It's not even tongues. It's it's 0:11:01.270 --> 0:11:05.439 it's intercession within heaven that doesn't even go through us. 0:11:05.590 --> 0:11:08.710 That's what that verse is talking about. So the whole. 0:11:08.740 --> 0:11:09.370 Yeah, I. 0:11:09.370 --> 0:11:14.740 Believe the whole theology and practice of devotional self edifying 0:11:14.770 --> 0:11:21.280 tongues is something that that could be, uh, that's just 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.820 I don't think it's intended. It's not all that helpful. 0:11:24.820 --> 0:11:28.960 I don't believe it's helpful, uh, at all. And it 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.929 can be harmful. When I first was a pastor, there 0:11:31.929 --> 0:11:36.670 was a dear woman in my congregation who. The problem 0:11:36.670 --> 0:11:40.120 that she had was that whenever she prayed because she 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:42.780 prayed in tongues so much, she she came to me. 0:11:42.809 --> 0:11:45.209 She says I can't articulate. I start to pray and 0:11:45.210 --> 0:11:49.439 I immediately go into tongues. I can't ever articulate prayers. 0:11:49.530 --> 0:11:55.890 She became so dependent on tongues. And so what? You know, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:57.930 what am I going to do? I'm her pastor. You know, 0:11:57.960 --> 0:11:59.820 I didn't want to hurt her feelings or offend her, 0:11:59.820 --> 0:12:02.490 but I said, you do need to pray. And so 0:12:02.490 --> 0:12:05.520 she had to learn to pray again by writing out 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:11.069 her prayers, because otherwise she couldn't speak them. So I 0:12:11.070 --> 0:12:18.300 think that let's let's master praying with understanding before we 0:12:18.300 --> 0:12:20.940 try to do anything else. How's that? That's what I 0:12:20.940 --> 0:12:21.600 would encourage. 0:12:21.630 --> 0:12:22.770 Oh yeah, I. 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:27.600 Yes thank you. I yeah, I'm in a weird position 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:33.750 because I've been around charismatics and Pentecostals and, uh, my 0:12:33.750 --> 0:12:36.960 whole life and always struggled with this. 0:12:37.710 --> 0:12:39.150 So this. 0:12:39.150 --> 0:12:40.320 Helps. I appreciate. 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:40.650 It so. 0:12:40.650 --> 0:12:40.890 Much. 0:12:40.929 --> 0:12:42.610 Well, thank you so much for your call. I really 0:12:42.610 --> 0:12:45.880 appreciate it, Rodney. And we're going to take a break here. 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:49.090 And when we come back, we're going to be talking 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.990 with you about your questions about the Bible, God and 0:12:52.990 --> 0:12:56.679 the spiritual life. So stick around. Don't leave. We're going 0:12:56.710 --> 0:13:01.480 to try and get to your question. Call (877) 548-3675. My 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:03.520 name is Michael Ray Jellinek, and we're going to be 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.209 right back with more of your questions right here on 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:21.910 Moody Radio's Open Line. Welcome back to Open Line. I'm 0:13:21.910 --> 0:13:24.400 Michael Ray Dolnick. So glad that you're listening in today. 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:30.940 We're having a great time around the word studying the scriptures. Uh, now, uh, 0:13:30.970 --> 0:13:34.210 autumn is here. And as soon as I. It's pretty 0:13:34.210 --> 0:13:38.079 crisp this morning where I am, uh, feels pretty cool. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.730 And it's immediately. You think it's. It's the fall. Time 0:13:41.730 --> 0:13:45.300 to learn about the Jewish fall, high holidays, the high 0:13:45.300 --> 0:13:48.540 Holy Days, we call them. And Chosen People Ministries is 0:13:48.540 --> 0:13:54.300 offering a free, very helpful booklet called Celebrate Israel's High 0:13:54.300 --> 0:14:00.060 Holy Days. Uh, the booklet explores all the fall Jewish 0:14:00.059 --> 0:14:03.870 holy days. That's the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, the 0:14:03.870 --> 0:14:07.800 Day of Atonement, Yom Kippur, and the Feast of Booths Sukkot. 0:14:07.830 --> 0:14:10.140 It's just a booklet, but it's really helpful. I'm sure 0:14:10.140 --> 0:14:12.510 you're going to like it. Uh, don't miss out. If 0:14:12.540 --> 0:14:15.689 you'd like a copy of that little booklet, just go 0:14:15.690 --> 0:14:19.860 to the Open Line website. That's open Line radio.org. Scroll down. 0:14:19.860 --> 0:14:21.810 There's a link there that says a free gift from 0:14:21.810 --> 0:14:24.600 Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll be taken 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:27.930 to a page where you can sign up for your 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:33.570 own copy of Celebrate Israel's High Holy Day holidays. Now, 0:14:33.930 --> 0:14:38.600 I am so grateful that Chosen People Ministries has partnered 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.600 with Open Line since the week I started, when it 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.940 was just a local program. For the first six months, 0:14:43.940 --> 0:14:47.360 it was just in Chicago. Open line. And then when 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.090 I went on the Moody stations and then on the whole, 0:14:50.090 --> 0:14:53.300 all the affiliates, I think we're up to about, uh, 0:14:53.300 --> 0:14:58.220 almost 300 affiliates now and really grateful for that. Uh, 0:14:59.630 --> 0:15:01.880 and chosen people who's been with us from the beginning, 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.700 and now they are partnering with Moody Bible Institute for 0:15:04.700 --> 0:15:08.570 something that's really important to our legacy. Our legacy has 0:15:08.570 --> 0:15:13.130 always been to oppose anti-Semitism. During the 30s, Moody took 0:15:13.130 --> 0:15:19.100 a real clear stand in the Moody Magazine opposing anti-Semitism 0:15:19.100 --> 0:15:21.620 in the 70s, when neo-Nazis wanted to march in the 0:15:21.620 --> 0:15:25.490 Jewish suburb of Skokie of Chicago. Doctor Sweeting, the president 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.540 of Moody, took out a full page ad, uh, opposing 0:15:29.540 --> 0:15:33.560 that march and standing with the Jewish community the same 0:15:33.560 --> 0:15:38.290 way today as we see anti-Semitism erupting all across the globe. Uh, 0:15:38.320 --> 0:15:43.720 hate for God's chosen people becoming normative. Well, Moody Bible 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:45.730 Institute wants to help believers learn how to take the 0:15:45.730 --> 0:15:50.260 biblical stand in opposing this kind of hatred. And the 0:15:50.260 --> 0:15:52.780 way we're doing is we're having a summit, a one 0:15:52.780 --> 0:15:56.890 day conference opposing anti-Semitism. We're going to have special speakers 0:15:56.890 --> 0:15:59.950 like doctor Mark Jobe, president of Moody. I'll speak. So 0:15:59.950 --> 0:16:03.940 will Doctor Mitch Glazer, president of Chosen People Ministries, and 0:16:03.940 --> 0:16:08.260 also doctor Don Sweeting. George Sweeting's son, Don Sweeting, is 0:16:08.260 --> 0:16:10.750 the chancellor of Colorado Christian University, one of the most 0:16:10.750 --> 0:16:16.300 outspoken opponents of anti-Semitism across the nation. He speaks loudly 0:16:16.300 --> 0:16:20.440 and clearly and well about this, and there'll be special 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.020 breakout sessions. What can we do as believers? What can 0:16:23.020 --> 0:16:27.580 we do as a church to stand against anti-Semitism? Please 0:16:27.580 --> 0:16:31.930 don't miss out. It's November 9th at Moody Bible Institute. Uh, 0:16:31.930 --> 0:16:35.390 you can go to our website, openline Line radio.org and 0:16:35.390 --> 0:16:38.900 click on the link there. At the top there's a 0:16:38.900 --> 0:16:42.890 banner that says The Summit on Opposing anti-Semitism. You can 0:16:42.890 --> 0:16:44.660 find out everything you need to know. You don't have 0:16:44.660 --> 0:16:46.760 to be from Chicago. You can come from all over 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.030 the country. There's hotels in the area. Please join us. 0:16:50.030 --> 0:16:54.470 It's crucial to get as many believers there as possible 0:16:54.500 --> 0:16:58.400 to learn to stand against this satanic hatred of anti-Semitism. 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.840 And we're going to talk to Luis Rafael right now 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:07.430 in Orlando, Florida, listening on WGN. Welcome to Open Line. 0:17:07.430 --> 0:17:09.860 Luis Rafael, how can I help you today? 0:17:10.670 --> 0:17:13.730 Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Can you hear me? Well. 0:17:13.970 --> 0:17:14.540 Yeah. 0:17:14.540 --> 0:17:15.590 You sound great. 0:17:16.250 --> 0:17:16.850 Yeah. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:19.460 Beside the Lord Jesus Christ. I think we may have 0:17:19.460 --> 0:17:22.040 other things in common. Like, uh. I haven't been in 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.760 Dallas Theological Seminary, but I've taken some courses, and I 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:30.590 have been mentored for 15 years on separate occasions by doctor, uh, 0:17:30.590 --> 0:17:31.730 Albert Platt. 0:17:32.390 --> 0:17:34.300 Uh, Al sure, I know him. 0:17:34.330 --> 0:17:35.800 Yeah, sure I know. 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:37.840 And, uh, Oscar Lopez. 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.320 Yeah, sure. From Dallas Seminary. I know these guys. 0:17:41.770 --> 0:17:45.790 Yes, yes, they ministered to us, uh, Hispanic conferences in 0:17:45.820 --> 0:17:47.950 Keswick in new Jersey. 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:49.090 Yeah, sure. 0:17:49.180 --> 0:17:52.000 I know. I've spoken at that Keswick Conference Center in 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:52.690 the past. 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:53.410 Yeah. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.260 Have you? Oh my word. I wish I would. I 0:17:56.260 --> 0:17:58.240 used to live in new Jersey. I live now in Florida. 0:17:58.270 --> 0:18:02.890 I lost my wife in 2022 of Covid. Oh. I'm sorry. Uh, yeah. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:07.630 I've been ministering in Hispanic bilingual congregations for 18 years now. 0:18:07.630 --> 0:18:11.109 I'm in Florida. No congregation. Just, uh, you know, getting 0:18:11.109 --> 0:18:14.860 in some time. Uh, and I don't want to. I 0:18:14.859 --> 0:18:20.020 want to kind of, like, fine tune my position as Calvinist. Uh, 0:18:20.020 --> 0:18:21.910 you know, I think I'm a Calvinist. I don't want 0:18:21.940 --> 0:18:26.410 to be hyper Calvinist. Uh, and I may have some 0:18:26.410 --> 0:18:29.680 Armenian on me, because I believe that we can use 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.460 our free will to say no to the Lord and 0:18:32.460 --> 0:18:35.250 reject the gospel. So I don't know what you take 0:18:35.250 --> 0:18:35.879 on that. 0:18:36.330 --> 0:18:39.450 So let's see, do I? What I think you'd like 0:18:39.450 --> 0:18:43.890 me to explain out Arminianism versus Calvinism. Is that what 0:18:43.890 --> 0:18:44.790 you're asking? 0:18:45.450 --> 0:18:50.610 Yeah. In general terms, yes. Yes I. Okay. If I. Okay. 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:55.290 So I you know or if you're asking I really 0:18:55.290 --> 0:19:02.250 believe that the Lord uh, uh, chooses you read Ephesians one. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.600 It says that believers are elect before the foundation of 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:09.690 the world. So I really do believe in election. Uh, 0:19:09.690 --> 0:19:14.400 I do believe the Bible predestines us. Uh, the Bible 0:19:14.430 --> 0:19:17.580 teaches the Lord predestines us. It says that he foreknows 0:19:17.580 --> 0:19:20.879 us to foreknow doesn't mean just to know who will believe, 0:19:20.910 --> 0:19:25.350 but he knows in advance. Uh, enters into a relationship 0:19:25.350 --> 0:19:29.850 with us in advance. That's what it means. Uh, but 0:19:29.900 --> 0:19:34.760 before time. And so the Lord is sovereign. On the 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:39.650 other hand, the Bible teaches that people have to believe. 0:19:39.770 --> 0:19:45.530 And there is a responsibility. What I find about Calvinism 0:19:46.550 --> 0:19:51.859 is it seeks to explain it on the election side 0:19:51.859 --> 0:19:59.030 without emphasizing the the responsibility of the person to believe. 0:19:59.660 --> 0:20:04.939 The Arminian side tends to emphasize the responsibility of the 0:20:04.940 --> 0:20:08.869 person to respond to the gospel, to believe, but then 0:20:08.869 --> 0:20:13.010 finds ways to get around the idea of election. Uh, 0:20:13.340 --> 0:20:18.590 and I live with it. Sort of. I learned this in, 0:20:18.619 --> 0:20:20.750 you know, I was a Bible college student back in 0:20:20.750 --> 0:20:24.470 1974 or 5, and I read a book called evangelism 0:20:24.470 --> 0:20:27.830 and the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer, who's a Calvinist. 0:20:27.830 --> 0:20:34.780 And Packer argues that trying to resolve sovereignty and human 0:20:34.780 --> 0:20:43.570 responsibility is sort of it's impossible. He calls it an antinomy. Uh, 0:20:43.570 --> 0:20:47.410 an apparent contradiction, not really a contradiction in the mind 0:20:47.410 --> 0:20:50.950 of God. It makes perfect sense in our comprehension ability. 0:20:50.980 --> 0:20:54.910 We can't understand it, he says. It's sort of like 0:20:54.940 --> 0:20:58.660 you see these two. I think the illustration uses two 0:20:58.690 --> 0:21:00.669 pipes that you might see running along the wall, and 0:21:00.670 --> 0:21:03.879 then it enters into the wall, and only behind the 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:07.300 wall do the two pipes join together and fit together 0:21:07.300 --> 0:21:11.830 in the same way. Uh, I believe when we're here 0:21:11.830 --> 0:21:16.510 in this life, uh, with our finite minds, we can't 0:21:16.510 --> 0:21:19.720 grasp it. We just can't grasp it. But on the 0:21:19.720 --> 0:21:22.810 other hand, in the mind of God, the two work 0:21:22.810 --> 0:21:28.910 together perfectly. They make perfect sense, you know, In Isaiah 55, 0:21:29.540 --> 0:21:35.060 it says this, uh, and this is how I resolve it. 0:21:35.060 --> 0:21:39.020 I just believe both, uh, I fall more on the 0:21:39.020 --> 0:21:41.420 side of Calvinism on the issue of security. I believe 0:21:41.420 --> 0:21:44.360 in the perseverance of the Savior. He holds on to us. 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.120 But here's what Isaiah 55 says. My thoughts are not 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:49.760 your thoughts. My ways are not your ways are not 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:53.869 my ways. This is the Lord's declaration as as heaven 0:21:53.869 --> 0:22:01.580 is higher than earth, so are my ways and my thoughts. Uh, 0:22:01.580 --> 0:22:03.530 so are my ways higher than your ways and my 0:22:03.530 --> 0:22:09.889 thoughts than your thoughts. So here's the deal. Uh, it's 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:15.229 it is a seeming contradiction and apparent contradiction. But in 0:22:15.230 --> 0:22:17.210 the mind of God, it's not. And I just live 0:22:17.210 --> 0:22:21.560 with them both. And, uh, you know, I may not 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:25.129 be the best theologian because theologians love to explain everything. 0:22:25.869 --> 0:22:28.360 There's a great theologian by the name of John Feinberg. 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.399 He wrote a book that explains how these two things 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:33.550 work together. And I tried to read it, and John's 0:22:33.550 --> 0:22:35.560 just too smart for me. I couldn't understand it. So 0:22:35.560 --> 0:22:38.680 I'm just going to live with my mind being two 0:22:38.710 --> 0:22:43.210 to finite. So I hope that helps you lose weight too. 0:22:43.210 --> 0:22:47.080 I'm quite sure we have a human has a responsibility 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.860 to respond. I just don't want to. I've written about 0:22:50.859 --> 0:22:55.930 4000 words, uh, argument with Doctor Gary Hedrick, who I 0:22:55.930 --> 0:23:00.550 support from messianic perspective in Texas. Uh, and uh, uh, 0:23:00.760 --> 0:23:03.130 I my, my take was, well. 0:23:03.369 --> 0:23:08.500 You know, you know, Luis, Luis Rafael. The thing is I, 0:23:08.530 --> 0:23:10.750 I'm not I don't want to argue with anyone about it. 0:23:10.750 --> 0:23:14.619 I'll tell you why. I, I believe that there's a 0:23:14.619 --> 0:23:17.770 human responsibility to respond to the gospel. When I preach 0:23:17.770 --> 0:23:22.000 the gospel, I invite people to believe, and I act 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.090 as if it's all up to me. But I pray, 0:23:24.090 --> 0:23:26.160 and I really do believe this, that no one would 0:23:26.160 --> 0:23:29.070 ever respond if the Holy Spirit didn't open their heart, 0:23:29.580 --> 0:23:32.939 you know? Uh, that's that's what I think. And I 0:23:32.940 --> 0:23:35.400 think someone, I think just hung up. But they were 0:23:35.430 --> 0:23:38.310 they were calling the next caller I was about to 0:23:38.340 --> 0:23:42.390 take was calling about the verse that says, as many 0:23:42.420 --> 0:23:46.260 were appointed for eternal life. This is acts 13, uh, 0:23:46.260 --> 0:23:50.250 where it says, uh, as many as were appointed to 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:55.139 eternal life believed. Uh, it's uh, verse 48, when the 0:23:55.140 --> 0:23:58.320 Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the Lord, and 0:23:58.320 --> 0:24:02.220 all who had been appointed to eternal life believed. Uh, 0:24:02.250 --> 0:24:04.950 did is there a human responsibility to believe? Yeah, it's 0:24:04.950 --> 0:24:07.860 right there. But how did they believe the Holy Spirit 0:24:07.859 --> 0:24:10.649 opened their eyes? It says in acts 16, the Lord 0:24:10.650 --> 0:24:14.220 opened Lydia's heart. And that's. That's the only way, I 0:24:14.220 --> 0:24:16.350 don't think, in our own we'd ever believe. But the 0:24:16.350 --> 0:24:20.910 Lord opens our hearts, and that's how we respond. So, uh, 0:24:20.910 --> 0:24:23.580 I think you agree with me about that, don't you? 0:24:23.609 --> 0:24:27.510 Yes, yes. Well, yes. We're in the same. In the same, 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:29.850 you know, same lines. Yeah. Yes. 0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:37.920 Yeah. That's it. It's so, uh, it's so difficult. And 0:24:37.950 --> 0:24:40.740 let me just encourage you, uh, do you ever pray 0:24:40.740 --> 0:24:42.330 for people who don't know the Lord to come to 0:24:42.359 --> 0:24:43.230 know the Lord? 0:24:44.040 --> 0:24:44.760 Yes. 0:24:45.060 --> 0:24:47.190 Yeah, I keep doing that, too. There's only one verse 0:24:47.190 --> 0:24:50.040 in the Bible that has that, you know, in Romans 0:24:50.040 --> 0:24:52.110 ten one, my heart's desire and prayer to God for 0:24:52.109 --> 0:24:54.090 Israel is they might be saved. That's the only place 0:24:54.090 --> 0:24:58.050 where it talks about praying for the lost. Uh, but 0:24:58.050 --> 0:24:59.940 we should pray for the lost that God would open 0:24:59.940 --> 0:25:03.120 their hearts. And on the other hand, uh. And that's 0:25:03.119 --> 0:25:05.070 because we believe in a sovereign God. And yet, when 0:25:05.070 --> 0:25:07.500 we talk to people who don't know the Lord, what 0:25:07.500 --> 0:25:11.250 do we do? We invite them to believe. We press 0:25:11.250 --> 0:25:14.190 them to believe. We do whatever we can to encourage 0:25:14.190 --> 0:25:17.220 them to believe. So I always say, I share the 0:25:17.250 --> 0:25:21.790 gospel like an Arminian and I pray like a Calvinist 0:25:21.790 --> 0:25:27.700 and somehow that seems to work. I really do believe that. Hey, Luis. Rafael, 0:25:27.730 --> 0:25:29.800 thanks for your call. We're going to come back with 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.109 the mailbag in just a moment, so don't go away. 0:25:32.140 --> 0:25:34.960 Trish is dragging it in right now. This is open 0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:57.040 line with Michael Zelnick. We're back. This is open line 0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:00.100 with Michael Dolnick. And I am so grateful to the 0:26:00.100 --> 0:26:03.880 Far Eastern Broadcasting Company for partnering with Moody Radio and 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:08.560 Open Line to bring you the Febc mailbag every week. 0:26:08.590 --> 0:26:12.400 They are faithful and not just faithful in bringing the 0:26:12.430 --> 0:26:18.820 Febc mailbag, but also faithful in bringing the good news 0:26:18.820 --> 0:26:22.970 to people through their media ministry. It's an outstanding ministry. 0:26:22.970 --> 0:26:26.480 I love this organization. They not only have media going 0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:30.920 out to people, radio and things broadcasts, but also individuals 0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.980 that will follow up and and give a personal touch 0:26:33.980 --> 0:26:37.220 to follow up the gospel and lead people to faith 0:26:37.220 --> 0:26:40.280 and disciple them. It's an outstanding organization. You can check 0:26:40.310 --> 0:26:44.689 out their podcast by going to their website febc. Org 0:26:44.690 --> 0:26:48.260 and click on the podcast called Until All Have Heard 0:26:48.260 --> 0:26:50.660 featuring Ed Cannon. I think you're going to love that. 0:26:50.660 --> 0:26:55.040 That's f e b c.org and Tricia McMillan is here 0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:59.149 with me right now. So glad you're here, Tricia. So 0:26:59.150 --> 0:27:02.180 have you taken a look at our current resource? 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:07.250 Um, not not since we've started using it. 0:27:07.460 --> 0:27:10.970 Okay. But I know we used it as, uh, we 0:27:10.970 --> 0:27:13.490 actually interviewed Jim when he, when the book first came 0:27:13.490 --> 0:27:16.670 out and talked about it on air. And I'm so 0:27:16.670 --> 0:27:20.720 glad we get to have the this book 14 Fresh 0:27:20.750 --> 0:27:24.320 Ways to Enjoy the Bible as our resource and you. 0:27:24.350 --> 0:27:26.930 Can you guess why I like this so much as 0:27:26.930 --> 0:27:27.859 a resource? 0:27:28.190 --> 0:27:31.250 Uh, I'm guessing because it's giving you ways to read 0:27:31.250 --> 0:27:32.179 the Bible. 0:27:32.210 --> 0:27:33.500 Yeah, exactly. 0:27:33.530 --> 0:27:37.790 It's it's just a great little synopsis of ways to 0:27:37.820 --> 0:27:40.429 read the scriptures and anything that I could do to 0:27:40.460 --> 0:27:43.160 get people to get more out of their Bible reading, 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:46.520 I'm thrilled with. Uh, I said last hour, I kind 0:27:46.550 --> 0:27:48.650 of wish I had written a book by Michael Block. 0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:50.750 I kind of wish I wrote this book to, I 0:27:50.750 --> 0:27:54.230 got to say, because this is exactly how I feel, 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:57.770 you know, about people just need to have some clues 0:27:57.770 --> 0:28:00.560 about what to look for when they're reading the Bible. 0:28:00.560 --> 0:28:05.000 And it's not a Bible study methods book so much as, hey, 0:28:05.000 --> 0:28:08.390 when you read, read it this way. Look for like 0:28:08.420 --> 0:28:13.250 one areas. Look for repetition, repetition of concept, repetition of words. 0:28:13.250 --> 0:28:14.990 And he goes through all the things that we look 0:28:14.990 --> 0:28:19.320 for because that's usually what the passage is emphasizing, and 0:28:19.320 --> 0:28:22.170 he just talks about different things to look for. It 0:28:22.170 --> 0:28:25.619 is a great book. Jim Coakley wrote it 14 Fresh 0:28:25.650 --> 0:28:28.560 Ways to Enjoy Your Bible, and it is our current resource. 0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:30.690 If you give a gift of any size, we want 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:33.419 to say thank you. We appreciate you so much, and 0:28:33.420 --> 0:28:35.160 we'd like to send you this book as a way 0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:39.690 to say thank you. And so check out 14 Fresh 0:28:39.690 --> 0:28:42.390 Ways to Enjoy the Bible. You can give by going 0:28:42.420 --> 0:28:51.480 to our website openline radio.org. Or you can call (888) 644-7122 0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:55.410 and and make sure you ask for Jim Coakley's wonderful 0:28:55.410 --> 0:29:00.300 award winning book, 14 Fresh Ways to Enjoy the Bible. 0:29:00.330 --> 0:29:03.690 And Tricia. Yes, you need to have a look at 0:29:03.690 --> 0:29:05.940 this book. You're going to love it. You're going to 0:29:05.970 --> 0:29:08.910 I can't wait. You know what? You teach all these 0:29:08.910 --> 0:29:11.610 women's Bible studies. This is a book you should lead 0:29:11.610 --> 0:29:13.709 women through. This is a great book. 0:29:13.980 --> 0:29:16.310 I have it in my office. I will need to 0:29:16.340 --> 0:29:18.920 get it. I just haven't looked at it for this month. Yeah. 0:29:18.950 --> 0:29:20.990 Yep, yep. But it's a great book, I love it. 0:29:20.990 --> 0:29:23.780 I just reread it because of of using it as 0:29:23.780 --> 0:29:26.510 a resource and I, I, I loved it more the 0:29:26.510 --> 0:29:27.830 second time than I did the first. 0:29:27.860 --> 0:29:28.430 Oh, good. 0:29:28.460 --> 0:29:31.190 So it was a fresh read too. Yeah. Yeah. The 0:29:31.190 --> 0:29:33.170 second time. So you can keep going back to it, 0:29:33.170 --> 0:29:35.060 which are the kinds of resources that we like that 0:29:35.060 --> 0:29:37.070 they continue to help you even after you've read it 0:29:37.070 --> 0:29:37.550 the first time. 0:29:37.580 --> 0:29:39.440 Yep, yep. It's great. Fantastic. 0:29:39.470 --> 0:29:42.830 So, anyway, uh, we got the mailbag. 0:29:42.830 --> 0:29:43.910 Here we do. 0:29:43.940 --> 0:29:45.050 Okay, here we go. 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:47.390 All right, our first question is from Kim in Washington 0:29:47.390 --> 0:29:52.520 state listens to KMBC. What does faith look like? So 0:29:52.550 --> 0:29:56.450 more specifically, looking through the Old Testament, there are battles 0:29:56.450 --> 0:29:59.930 and cities and the followers of God forged weapons and 0:29:59.930 --> 0:30:03.260 built walls for protection. But in some of the battles. So. 0:30:03.260 --> 0:30:06.410 So they fought some of the battles themselves. But in 0:30:06.410 --> 0:30:08.990 some of the battles, God did all the work. Was 0:30:08.990 --> 0:30:12.020 he pleased by that preparation? And then she's kind of 0:30:12.050 --> 0:30:14.890 relating it to financial like. Should we be preparing for 0:30:14.890 --> 0:30:16.780 the worst and just trust that God will meet all 0:30:16.780 --> 0:30:20.320 our needs? What does that faith look like in that 0:30:20.320 --> 0:30:23.380 preparation versus how it actually plays out? 0:30:24.100 --> 0:30:26.830 Well, my wife Eva has a little plaque that she 0:30:26.830 --> 0:30:28.960 got in Israel and she has over her desk. It 0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:34.240 says Trust God, but tie up your camel. So, uh, 0:30:35.080 --> 0:30:37.420 I think, you know, when you look at, for example, 0:30:37.450 --> 0:30:40.750 people say, I knew someone that didn't save any money, 0:30:40.780 --> 0:30:43.150 so I'm never going to save because I'm trusting God 0:30:43.150 --> 0:30:48.220 for my retirement. And, uh, well, I read the book 0:30:48.220 --> 0:30:51.459 of Proverbs and it talks about the ant stores food 0:30:51.460 --> 0:30:55.000 in summer so he can eat in winter. Right? That's 0:30:55.000 --> 0:30:57.400 something that God built by instinct. And it's a lesson 0:30:57.400 --> 0:31:02.980 for us to learn from, to start early and prepare. So, uh, yes, 0:31:02.980 --> 0:31:05.530 we should trust God. Uh, you know, we don't know 0:31:05.530 --> 0:31:08.260 what the future holds there. Might. You know, I actually 0:31:08.260 --> 0:31:12.500 have a retirement fund, and it, uh. but I do 0:31:12.530 --> 0:31:15.890 know that that whole thing can collapse. The entire economy 0:31:15.890 --> 0:31:18.950 might collapse. And I have to trust God. You know, 0:31:18.980 --> 0:31:21.650 I don't think it will, but I. I have to 0:31:21.650 --> 0:31:24.230 trust God for that, that he's going to take care 0:31:24.230 --> 0:31:26.719 of me whether my savings do or not. But I 0:31:26.720 --> 0:31:29.540 do have a responsibility to save. Same thing. You know, 0:31:29.570 --> 0:31:32.240 God knows the day of my death. He knows when 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:34.640 I'm going to die. That doesn't mean I should go 0:31:34.640 --> 0:31:38.900 out and eat everything bad for me. You know, live 0:31:38.900 --> 0:31:42.950 on potato chips and, uh, you know, just because God 0:31:42.950 --> 0:31:46.100 knows the day of my death doesn't mean I shouldn't 0:31:46.100 --> 0:31:51.620 eat healthy. You know, uh, that that there's a responsibility 0:31:51.650 --> 0:31:56.330 we have that God has ordained healthy eating, retirement plans, 0:31:56.360 --> 0:32:02.960 safe saving, uh, protection, for example, like she mentions in 0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:11.350 the Old Testament. Uh, that's all part of what God uses, uh, To, uh, 0:32:11.830 --> 0:32:16.660 to protect people, to fulfill his purposes for them. Uh, 0:32:16.660 --> 0:32:18.700 I think the only time when God was not happy 0:32:18.700 --> 0:32:28.900 with that was like, for example, when Asa, uh, made, uh, associations, 0:32:28.900 --> 0:32:32.260 alliances that he should not have made. Uh, God tells 0:32:32.260 --> 0:32:35.980 Israel at other times, don't rely on Egypt to protect you. 0:32:35.980 --> 0:32:39.130 It's like a reed that will pierce your hand if 0:32:39.160 --> 0:32:44.020 you rely on it or it'll break. Uh, so sometimes 0:32:44.020 --> 0:32:46.450 it has to do with are we relying on God 0:32:46.450 --> 0:32:50.020 or we're relying on allies in war? And that that 0:32:50.020 --> 0:32:55.540 would be something that would be problematic. But otherwise doesn't 0:32:55.540 --> 0:33:01.240 mean that Israel wasn't supposed to have walled cities or make, make, protect, 0:33:01.270 --> 0:33:02.890 take protective action. 0:33:02.920 --> 0:33:03.940 So so it's. 0:33:03.940 --> 0:33:10.260 Almost make make responsible decisions About whatever that is about 0:33:10.260 --> 0:33:14.910 your food, about your finances, about even going, how you're 0:33:14.910 --> 0:33:20.400 getting to work on it, you know? Um, but trust 0:33:20.430 --> 0:33:25.410 God ultimately through that, as opposed to it's all up 0:33:25.410 --> 0:33:27.330 to me, I have to do this, and I'm going 0:33:27.360 --> 0:33:30.300 to live making my decisions as if that's the only 0:33:30.330 --> 0:33:32.820 thing that's going to protect me. Like the only. I 0:33:32.850 --> 0:33:37.080 am fully reliant on how my retirement fund does. And 0:33:37.080 --> 0:33:40.680 if it all falls through, then my life is over. No, 0:33:40.680 --> 0:33:45.780 you're doing that knowing that ultimately God will provide for 0:33:45.780 --> 0:33:47.970 you and he. And one of. 0:33:47.970 --> 0:33:48.390 The ways he. 0:33:48.390 --> 0:33:51.720 Does, he uses your retirement fund to do that, right? 0:33:51.750 --> 0:33:55.290 You know, uh, the the other thing, you know, it's 0:33:55.290 --> 0:33:57.479 like I used to tell my kids, you know, I 0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:00.600 trust God to protect you, but, you know, here we are. 0:34:00.630 --> 0:34:04.140 We live in the city. Don't walk out. You know, 0:34:04.170 --> 0:34:07.430 when when they, you know, were 18 and older, Don't 0:34:07.430 --> 0:34:09.140 go out in the middle of the night. You know, 0:34:09.170 --> 0:34:12.530 when do bad things happen in the city? At 2 a.m., 0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:14.450 you know, go to bed. You know, that's. 0:34:14.660 --> 0:34:15.680 You still look both. 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:17.120 Ways before crossing the street. 0:34:17.150 --> 0:34:18.110 Exactly. 0:34:18.140 --> 0:34:18.919 Okay. Yeah. 0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:22.670 Okay. Well. Thank you. I hope that helps. Kim to 0:34:22.790 --> 0:34:25.220 to give you a little bit more on what that 0:34:25.219 --> 0:34:27.410 faith in God looks like. 0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:27.770 Yeah. 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.440 While still making responsible decisions. 0:34:30.469 --> 0:34:30.680 Yeah. 0:34:30.710 --> 0:34:33.890 Just just remember, whatever's plaque says trust God, but tie 0:34:33.890 --> 0:34:34.700 up your camel. 0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:35.870 That's it. 0:34:36.020 --> 0:34:38.120 All right. So I gotta get me a camel. No. 0:34:38.330 --> 0:34:40.700 Yeah, but you know where it was? Where we went 0:34:40.700 --> 0:34:42.740 and rode camels. Do you remember riding camels when we 0:34:42.770 --> 0:34:43.550 went to Israel? 0:34:43.580 --> 0:34:44.299 No. 0:34:44.330 --> 0:34:47.359 Uh. Or maybe that we skipped it that day. 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:49.610 That you were. I think we skipped the trip with camels. Yeah. 0:34:49.610 --> 0:34:52.250 There was a problem that day that you came with us, 0:34:52.550 --> 0:34:58.880 but we went to this, uh, it's called Abraham's tent. Okay. And, uh, 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:01.669 they have a gift shop, and they had a they 0:35:01.670 --> 0:35:04.250 have camel rides, and they you have, like, an Abrahamic 0:35:04.250 --> 0:35:05.239 kind of meal. 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:05.529 Okay. 0:35:05.530 --> 0:35:08.770 And then, uh, and then they had this sign that said, 0:35:08.800 --> 0:35:10.810 Trust God, but tie up your camel. Even said, I 0:35:10.810 --> 0:35:11.320 like that. 0:35:11.350 --> 0:35:12.340 And she just got. 0:35:12.370 --> 0:35:12.969 It's over her. 0:35:12.969 --> 0:35:16.120 Desk. Very nice. It's a good principle. Yeah. 0:35:16.450 --> 0:35:20.919 Um, our next question comes from Young Minds. Um, Trudy 0:35:20.920 --> 0:35:25.090 is in New York, listens online, and she said, are 0:35:25.090 --> 0:35:29.200 there any verses in the Bible that talk about when 0:35:30.040 --> 0:35:35.530 animals became carnivores? Our middle school Sunday school class has 0:35:35.530 --> 0:35:38.469 been debating their thoughts and they haven't we haven't found 0:35:38.469 --> 0:35:41.259 a specific scripture, something that was after Adam and Eve 0:35:41.290 --> 0:35:43.029 sinned in the garden, and others think it was after 0:35:43.030 --> 0:35:45.490 the flood. Does the Bible tell us? 0:35:46.150 --> 0:35:55.150 It doesn't say when they became carnivores. Carnivores, carnivores, however. Uh, 0:35:56.290 --> 0:36:01.900 I'll give you my clue. Okay. Um, it says, uh, 0:36:03.310 --> 0:36:07.520 the Wolf and the lamb. This is about the messianic kingdom. 0:36:07.550 --> 0:36:11.120 There'll be a change in the animals. It says at 0:36:11.150 --> 0:36:13.310 that time the wolf and the lamb will feed together, 0:36:13.310 --> 0:36:17.390 and the lion will eat straw like the ox. So 0:36:17.390 --> 0:36:19.819 it is saying, in the messianic kingdom, when Jesus is 0:36:19.820 --> 0:36:21.980 reigning on the earth and we have the new millennial 0:36:22.010 --> 0:36:26.270 kind of experience, uh, animals will go back to what 0:36:26.270 --> 0:36:30.649 they were originally, which was herbivores rather than carnivores. 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:32.149 Where is that verse? 0:36:32.180 --> 0:36:34.400 Isaiah 6525. 0:36:34.430 --> 0:36:35.029 Okay. 0:36:36.320 --> 0:36:39.049 Uh, now everything won't change because the serpent's food will 0:36:39.050 --> 0:36:41.330 still be dust. Because that's he's going to be. That's 0:36:41.330 --> 0:36:43.430 one of the ways that that the serpent is now 0:36:43.460 --> 0:36:46.550 more cursed than all the other animals. But it seems 0:36:46.550 --> 0:36:50.000 to me that the wolf and the lamb becoming carnivores 0:36:50.000 --> 0:36:52.940 was part of their fall, the fall of humanity in 0:36:52.940 --> 0:36:58.040 the garden. And it will be restored when the they'll 0:36:58.070 --> 0:37:00.740 be restored to herbivores when we come to the kingdom. 0:37:01.130 --> 0:37:02.210 Okay. Okay. 0:37:02.380 --> 0:37:04.330 So if it was a result of the fall, that 0:37:04.330 --> 0:37:07.029 means then on the Ark, they would have had to 0:37:07.060 --> 0:37:13.569 make special provisions for the carnivores, um, to keep them 0:37:13.570 --> 0:37:17.470 away from the other animals that they would have eaten. 0:37:17.710 --> 0:37:19.060 Yeah, they might have. 0:37:19.090 --> 0:37:24.339 You know, I, uh, my, my, uh, although, you know, 0:37:24.700 --> 0:37:27.400 I have to say this, I know dogs that would 0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:29.380 normally want to chase a cat. 0:37:29.530 --> 0:37:29.920 Mhm. 0:37:30.219 --> 0:37:31.180 Some don't. 0:37:31.210 --> 0:37:32.020 You know. Yeah. 0:37:32.050 --> 0:37:35.800 So yeah. I don't know what, what happened at the, uh, 0:37:35.920 --> 0:37:38.410 on the Ark. I'm not going to worry about it. 0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:41.890 So those things that send us down these. But what 0:37:41.890 --> 0:37:45.370 about that aren't really that important. But we do wonder. 0:37:45.400 --> 0:37:46.120 Yeah, I. 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:46.810 Do wonder about. 0:37:46.810 --> 0:37:46.989 Them. 0:37:47.020 --> 0:37:48.460 This this is the. 0:37:48.460 --> 0:37:51.340 Most important lesson. God didn't give us the Bible to 0:37:51.370 --> 0:37:56.290 satisfy our curiosity, but to transform our lives. And this 0:37:56.290 --> 0:37:58.360 is one of the. This is one of those questions. 0:37:58.540 --> 0:38:00.100 I'm not going to change my life. 0:38:00.130 --> 0:38:03.840 Right? Right. Yeah. 0:38:04.110 --> 0:38:08.250 Because it'll change. It'll change in the messianic kingdom. Yeah. 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:10.050 And until then, this is what it is. 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:12.900 They are. It is what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 0:38:12.930 --> 0:38:14.520 All right. So. 0:38:14.910 --> 0:38:17.040 Listen. My dogs. Yeah. They'll eat. 0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:18.690 Anything. So there we go. 0:38:20.850 --> 0:38:22.170 Even plastic. 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:26.370 Oh. Oh, that's not good. No. I think we should 0:38:26.370 --> 0:38:27.930 take a break here. Okay. Come back. All right. I'll 0:38:27.930 --> 0:38:28.740 take some more questions. 0:38:28.770 --> 0:38:31.859 Hey, Tricia. Thanks for bringing the questions together. I really 0:38:31.860 --> 0:38:34.620 appreciate it. And thanks for sending them in. You can 0:38:34.620 --> 0:38:37.320 always go to Openline radio.org. Click on the link that 0:38:37.320 --> 0:38:40.410 says Ask Michael a question. You can send your question 0:38:40.410 --> 0:38:43.020 in that way. We're going to come right back with 0:38:43.020 --> 0:38:45.510 more of your questions in just a moment. This is 0:38:45.510 --> 0:38:49.200 open line with Tricia McMillan and me, Michael Dolnick. 0:38:49.469 --> 0:38:50.370 Be right back. 0:39:01.760 --> 0:39:05.780 Welcome back to Open Line. I'm Michael Ray Dolnick. I 0:39:05.780 --> 0:39:08.810 have a kind of a funny story about my friend 0:39:09.290 --> 0:39:14.540 William Washington. Uh, he. Doctor William Washington is the dean 0:39:14.570 --> 0:39:16.399 of student life at Moody. We were out to lunch 0:39:16.400 --> 0:39:18.140 one day, and we ran into some people, and the 0:39:18.140 --> 0:39:21.020 woman heard my voice and recognized me from the radio. 0:39:21.050 --> 0:39:23.450 This woman that was at the same restaurant we were at. 0:39:23.450 --> 0:39:26.089 And so she said, oh, you're Michael Dolnick from Open Line. 0:39:26.090 --> 0:39:28.520 And I said, yeah. And she said, I listen all 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:30.620 the time. And she called her husband over who was 0:39:30.620 --> 0:39:33.169 talking to someone else, and she said, This is Michael 0:39:33.260 --> 0:39:34.730 Dolnick from Open Line. He said, oh yeah, I listen 0:39:34.730 --> 0:39:37.219 all the time. He says, and this is the funny part. 0:39:37.250 --> 0:39:41.450 He says, uh, William and he says, but he mentions 0:39:41.450 --> 0:39:43.310 the name of another professor at Moody and says, I 0:39:43.310 --> 0:39:46.310 like him better. I said, well, I do too. So, 0:39:46.340 --> 0:39:49.310 you know, we're in the same boat. But William laughed 0:39:49.310 --> 0:39:50.690 at me. He says, you may like him better, but 0:39:50.690 --> 0:39:52.910 are you a kitchen table partner? That's what he looked 0:39:52.910 --> 0:39:54.710 at him. He said, if you listen every week, you 0:39:54.710 --> 0:39:59.040 should be a kitchen table partner. And so. That's what 0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:01.469 I thought was funny. William will never miss an opportunity 0:40:01.469 --> 0:40:04.319 to ask people. He kind of embarrasses me sometimes. Are 0:40:04.320 --> 0:40:06.420 you a kitchen table partner? Every time you meet someone 0:40:06.420 --> 0:40:09.630 that listens to Open Line? But I appreciate his heart. 0:40:09.630 --> 0:40:11.819 And the reason why he does that is he knows 0:40:11.820 --> 0:40:15.750 how important it is to partner with Open Line. It 0:40:15.750 --> 0:40:17.910 helps keep us on the air every week when you 0:40:17.910 --> 0:40:20.730 give every month. And so I appreciate it when people 0:40:20.730 --> 0:40:23.940 have done that. I appreciate everyone that listens. Actually, we 0:40:23.940 --> 0:40:25.650 started on this program. I thought it would be the 0:40:25.650 --> 0:40:27.750 only one listening every week. But there are people who 0:40:27.750 --> 0:40:30.239 listen every week. And if the Lord's used this in 0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:33.570 your life in some way to help you grow, understand 0:40:33.570 --> 0:40:36.689 the scriptures better. Learn to read them in a more 0:40:36.690 --> 0:40:39.510 effective way. If you're growing through this and you would 0:40:39.510 --> 0:40:41.910 like to become a kitchen table partner to help keep 0:40:41.910 --> 0:40:44.610 us on the air, we would so appreciate it. The 0:40:44.610 --> 0:40:51.299 way to do that is by calling (888) 644-7122, or perhaps 0:40:51.300 --> 0:40:54.480 go online open line radio.org. You can sign up there. 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:58.250 And every other week we'll send you a Bible study moment. 0:40:58.250 --> 0:41:02.870 It's a special audio Bible study designed exclusively for our 0:41:02.870 --> 0:41:05.450 kitchen table partners. And really grateful for all of you 0:41:05.480 --> 0:41:08.630 who have decided to become kitchen table partners, and even 0:41:08.630 --> 0:41:11.180 those of you who are considering it really, really appreciate 0:41:11.180 --> 0:41:14.030 you and I hope you will decide to join in 0:41:14.030 --> 0:41:18.560 this program. And now we're going to talk to Heather 0:41:18.560 --> 0:41:23.510 in Campton Hills, Illinois, listening on Wmbi. Welcome to Open Line. Heather, 0:41:23.510 --> 0:41:24.859 how can I help you today? 0:41:25.400 --> 0:41:29.810 Hi. Um, my my question for you today is from 0:41:29.810 --> 0:41:35.780 the Book of Judges, and it is about, um, just, uh, 0:41:35.810 --> 0:41:40.040 jephthah's vow. So my husband and I are both in 0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:45.319 agreement that unfortunately, he did follow through and he did 0:41:45.350 --> 0:41:48.290 offer his daughter because she was the first thing that 0:41:48.290 --> 0:41:51.410 came out of his house as a burnt offering. We 0:41:51.410 --> 0:41:55.840 have a friend who thinks differently and says that he 0:41:55.840 --> 0:41:59.560 thinks that she went to mourn her virginity and just like, 0:41:59.590 --> 0:42:02.890 lived out the rest of her days, maybe as a 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:04.150 nun or something. 0:42:04.180 --> 0:42:05.110 You know, a nun. 0:42:05.140 --> 0:42:05.799 Oh, yeah. Right. 0:42:05.830 --> 0:42:06.340 Okay. 0:42:06.370 --> 0:42:11.080 But it says it does say right there that when 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:14.320 she returned after the two months that he did to 0:42:14.320 --> 0:42:16.420 her as he vowed. Yeah. 0:42:16.450 --> 0:42:20.319 So let's talk about his vow. Okay. Verse 30. Verse 31. Okay. 0:42:20.410 --> 0:42:22.690 It says whatever comes out of the door is. This 0:42:22.690 --> 0:42:23.980 is Jephthah's vow. 0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:24.969 Of. 0:42:24.969 --> 0:42:27.400 My house to greet me when I return in peace 0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:30.850 from the ammonites will belong to the Lord. And my 0:42:30.850 --> 0:42:35.680 version says, and I will offer it as a burnt offering. But, uh, 0:42:35.680 --> 0:42:40.149 the the same word could be translated, or I will 0:42:40.180 --> 0:42:43.570 offer it as a burnt offering. So the vow does 0:42:43.570 --> 0:42:49.690 not require a burnt offering. Uh, the the other, uh, 0:42:49.989 --> 0:42:54.810 aspect of this, you know, when, when she does this, 0:42:55.980 --> 0:43:00.120 when she, you know, she comes out and greets her father. Uh, 0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:07.470 it says, uh, that that or I will that one 0:43:07.469 --> 0:43:10.170 will belong to Lord. In numbers eight, it talks about 0:43:10.170 --> 0:43:16.590 the Levites belong to me. Numbers 814 and when you 0:43:16.590 --> 0:43:19.830 look here at this, I will I will either offer 0:43:19.860 --> 0:43:21.810 it as a burnt offering, or they will belong to 0:43:21.840 --> 0:43:25.380 the Lord. That's the idea. And and in the book 0:43:25.380 --> 0:43:29.130 of Psalms it talks about, you know, can I finish 0:43:29.130 --> 0:43:32.310 Heather for a minute before you, before you engage with me? 0:43:33.150 --> 0:43:42.060 Hang on a second, okay? One it's or not. And two, it's, uh, 0:43:42.060 --> 0:43:44.850 the the idea is that one of the options is 0:43:44.880 --> 0:43:46.529 they will belong to the Lord, which is a term 0:43:46.530 --> 0:43:49.650 that's used for the Levites and three, uh, in the Psalms, 0:43:49.650 --> 0:43:53.780 it talks about the women, the the young virgins that 0:43:53.780 --> 0:44:00.980 served in the Tabernacle and by serving in the Tabernacle, 0:44:00.980 --> 0:44:03.530 they belong to the Lord. They were virgins that did that. 0:44:03.530 --> 0:44:09.710 And then you read judges 11 and what happens in 0:44:09.710 --> 0:44:16.040 judges 11? She she mourns not her upcoming death, but 0:44:16.040 --> 0:44:20.509 she mourns her virginity. This is especially sad for Jephthah 0:44:20.540 --> 0:44:23.810 because he doesn't have any other children, and he he 0:44:23.810 --> 0:44:29.600 won't have any, uh, heirs other than her, and his 0:44:29.630 --> 0:44:33.080 his line won't go on. So she mourned her virginity. 0:44:33.110 --> 0:44:35.060 You'd think if he was going to kill her, she'd 0:44:35.060 --> 0:44:38.840 have something more serious to worry about. So he kept 0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:42.080 the vow he had made about her. And she was. 0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:44.779 She never knew a man. So when it says he 0:44:44.780 --> 0:44:49.250 kept the vow. What happened? Not that he killed her, 0:44:49.250 --> 0:44:51.600 but she never knew a man. She never was intimate 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:54.810 with a man. And that's how it was. Okay. How's that? 0:44:54.840 --> 0:44:56.280 Does that help at all? Heather? 0:44:57.060 --> 0:44:57.360 Pardon me? 0:44:57.390 --> 0:45:00.990 It does, because it does help a lot. Because we thought. 0:45:00.989 --> 0:45:03.750 How could you make such a vow? You know, who 0:45:03.750 --> 0:45:06.600 do you think's going to come out of your house? Yeah, well, 0:45:06.600 --> 0:45:07.830 the first thing. 0:45:07.860 --> 0:45:12.330 They they did have, uh, they did have, believe it 0:45:12.330 --> 0:45:14.939 or not, they had little goats and things like that 0:45:14.940 --> 0:45:19.200 that went into the tents. And, uh, so it it it, uh, 0:45:19.200 --> 0:45:23.879 I've been in a Bedouin tent, uh, Bedouin encampment, encampment 0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:29.010 in the Sinai desert. Uh, and I was amazed, uh, 0:45:29.010 --> 0:45:31.980 sitting there with there were these little goats hanging around 0:45:31.980 --> 0:45:35.969 with me and, uh, and I'm like, oh, my, this 0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:38.399 this is just a different thing than I expected. But 0:45:38.400 --> 0:45:40.709 I think that wasn't that different back in the, in 0:45:40.710 --> 0:45:44.489 the day, uh, that they actually had little animals within 0:45:44.489 --> 0:45:47.310 the tents with them at times. Okay. Okay. 0:45:47.340 --> 0:45:49.069 That makes a lot more sense. 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:49.970 Thank you. 0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:52.489 Well, thank you so much for your call. I really 0:45:52.489 --> 0:45:55.819 appreciate it. And wow, I can't believe it. That's the 0:45:55.820 --> 0:45:59.359 program for the week. Thanks everyone for listening. I so 0:45:59.360 --> 0:46:02.209 appreciate it. And especially thanks of you. To you who 0:46:02.210 --> 0:46:06.290 called or wrote and asked your questions, you make this 0:46:06.290 --> 0:46:11.540 program possible. And also thanks to our team there today, 0:46:11.570 --> 0:46:16.520 Trish McMillan for producing tiara for answering the phones, Chris, 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:19.219 for doing all that engineering. Chris Seeger, I really appreciate it. 0:46:19.219 --> 0:46:22.850 Merle also for learning and being part of that. So 0:46:22.850 --> 0:46:24.920 glad for all of you that work on the Open 0:46:24.920 --> 0:46:27.440 Line team and all of you who are listening as 0:46:27.440 --> 0:46:29.510 part of the team, really appreciate that. Keep in touch 0:46:29.510 --> 0:46:33.080 with us by going to our website, Open Line radio.org. 0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:35.960 That page is everything you need all the links and 0:46:35.960 --> 0:46:38.420 resources you want. Keep reading the Bible. We'll talk about 0:46:38.420 --> 0:46:41.180 it next week. Open line with Doctor Michael Ray Dolnick 0:46:41.210 --> 0:46:44.029 is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody 0:46:44.060 --> 0:46:45.319 Bible Institute.