S1: What you pay attention to. You become. So do you
S1: want to become the things you're paying attention to online,
S1: or do you want to become more like your Lord Jesus?
S1: Or do you want to become a better dad, or
S1: a better mom, or a better spouse? Because that's what
S1: you need to pay attention to.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller, The Five Love Languages. In
S2: today's world of constant hurry and distraction. It can be
S2: difficult to focus on what's important. Author and speaker Paul
S2: Langone wants to help you pay attention to your life.
S3: All wants to help you embrace the life changing practice
S3: of listening to your day. We're going to talk about
S3: that straight ahead, and you can find out more at
S3: our website. Building relationships.us. Which leads me to make this observation, Gary,
S3: you seem to have learned early on in life how
S3: to pay attention, which is partly, you know, listening well
S3: is a part of that. How did you learn to
S3: do that.
S4: Chris? That's a question I've never been asked. How did
S4: I learn to do that? No, I am very much
S4: into the moment. You know, my wife has a saying.
S4: Wherever you are. Be all there. Yes. And I've tried
S4: to follow that through the years. If I'm counseling a couple,
S4: they have my full attention for the time that I'm
S4: with them, and I try to be sensitive to people
S4: around me as I walk out of a restaurant. You know,
S4: if I see somebody, I don't even know them. But
S4: I might make a comment about how wonderful the food
S4: looks or hope you leave something here for me. Or,
S4: you know, just I just enjoy, you know, interfacing with people.
S4: And I guess my parents, neither one of them were
S4: quite like that. But I think it's it's been a
S4: growing thing, too, because I'm not by nature, I'm not
S4: an extrovert by any means. Right. You know, when you
S4: pay attention to people around you, they'll almost always respond
S4: in a positive way. Because in our world, especially today,
S4: we're not talking to people, we're not interfacing. We're just
S4: each doing their own thing. Even in the airplanes, they
S4: don't talk anymore. In airplanes, most people just sit there,
S4: you know?
S3: Yeah. You know, the the observation I have about you
S3: and the folks listening don't know this. When we do
S3: a Dear Gary broadcast and we play the questions for Dr. Chapman,
S3: it is the first time he's hearing them. He he
S3: doesn't hear these ahead of time. When we record it,
S3: that's when he hears it the first time and he
S3: will pick up on things. And I probably heard of
S3: 4 or 5 times he will pick up on things
S3: in the question that he responds to and remembers and addresses,
S3: because he listens so well. So I think there's a
S3: part of a spiritual gift. It's part intentionality on your part,
S3: but it's also part of the way that God has
S3: made you to really listen well. Which leads right into
S3: our guest today. He's one of the nation's sought after
S3: voices to young professionals, people going through change in transition,
S3: and those who want to live intentionally. He's the best
S3: selling author of 101 secrets for Your 20s and 25 lies.
S3: 20 somethings Need to Stop Believing. He has a master's
S3: degree in organizational leadership, and his new book is our
S3: featured resource. Paul Langone has written Listen to Your Day
S3: the life changing practice of paying attention. Find out more
S3: at building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Paul, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S1: Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here.
S4: You know, last time you were here, you talked about
S4: millennials and some of the struggles that they're up against
S4: in today's world. But you're encouraging every age to learn
S4: to pay attention, right?
S1: Yeah. That's correct. Yeah. I wrote my initial books, you know,
S1: 101 secrets for 2025 lies. 20 Somethings Need to Stop
S1: believing because I basically I felt like such a failure
S1: in my 20s. It was a real struggle. In my 20s,
S1: I became passionate about that specific decade of life. And
S1: how do you do it? Well, well, that was the
S1: same with this new book. Listen to your day. The
S1: life changing practice of paying attention is, I felt like
S1: I was failing at my ability to pay attention to
S1: what's important. Yeah, I felt like I was really losing
S1: the skill set and the art of paying attention. Well.
S4: So is that what got you interested in this topic
S4: and writing this book?
S1: Yeah, it really was. You know, and I think for
S1: many of us, you know, just even that that setting
S1: on your phone, I don't know if anybody has this
S1: set up where it tells you at the end of
S1: the week how much time you've spent on your phone.
S1: It was really quite alarming for me where, you know,
S1: I would look at it and it would say five, six,
S1: seven hours a day that I was spending looking at
S1: my phone. And obviously we can be distracted by lots
S1: of things. You know, it's not just our phones, but
S1: obviously in today's age, you know, that's one of the
S1: biggest distractions. And I felt like I was I was
S1: really losing that intentionality of my attention. And I was
S1: missing so much of what was going on right in
S1: front of me to where, you know, I couldn't even
S1: focus for five minutes to read a book, which is
S1: hard when you're an author, and then you need to
S1: write a book that becomes even more difficult process. So
S1: I really had to I really had to live what
S1: I was researching, what I was writing. I had to
S1: live that so that I could write this book.
S4: Yeah. So you say that our whole lives are influenced
S4: by what we pay attention to. So what do you
S4: mean by that? And can you give us some examples?
S1: Yeah. You know, a great example is, you know, what
S1: we would call an expert. You know, I think an
S1: expert is a great example of somebody who has paid
S1: attention to something to, to a focused extent more than
S1: anybody else. You know, an expert doesn't have to be.
S1: He was just, you know, way more hyper intellectual than
S1: the rest of us. No, I think it's the opposite.
S1: I think they've just chosen to focus in on something
S1: with a heightened, focused intensity because they're passionate about it,
S1: because they really care about it. You know, that's that's you, Dr. Chapman.
S1: You focused in on relationships because you're passionate about it.
S1: And so you're an expert at that because you've just
S1: given it your focused attention. And, you know, that's what
S1: a doctor is. You know, a doctor doesn't just become
S1: a doctor overnight. They literally become what they've been paying
S1: attention to for years. And studying. And really, we really
S1: hope that our doctor has done a good job at
S1: paying attention to that. When they're opening us up for surgery,
S1: we hope they've really focus their attention. Well, correct. You know,
S1: and that's the same for all of us. You know,
S1: we have to we have to focus our attention and
S1: then we start becoming what we're paying attention to. You know,
S1: so if all we're paying attention to is the headlines
S1: on Twitter, you know, we're we're going to become what
S1: those headlines are. And I think that can be a
S1: scary thing for many of us.
S4: I think many of our listeners can agree with what
S4: you're saying and likely seeing it in ourselves, to be sure.
S4: Now talk about the term that you used or one
S4: term you use obsessive comparison disorder. What is that and
S4: how does it affect our attention?
S1: Yeah, that's it's a it's one I coined years ago
S1: back in 101 secrets for your 20s. And I just
S1: see it as such a problem in today's age. You know,
S1: you used to have to go to your ten year
S1: reunion or 20 year reunion, right? And that's when you
S1: would be buddy up and down to see who's who's
S1: doing better than whom. But you just had to fake
S1: it for one night, you know, lose some weight, get
S1: a toupee, rent a BMW, you know, whatever it took.
S1: Just a fake it that you were, you know, you
S1: were a success, that you were doing something great with
S1: your life. You know, snapshot and images, those edited and
S1: filtered images with everybody else. And we're obsessively doing this,
S1: you know, at the back of a line or waiting
S1: in an airplane or an elevator, you know, any awkward, boring,
S1: quiet moment where maybe we would even prayed in the past,
S1: you know, please, Lord, help me in this situation or
S1: talking to the Lord. Now we're we're replacing it with
S1: our phone and pulling up all these images and obsessively
S1: comparing ourselves. And man, how damaging is that to our peace,
S1: to our well-being.
S4: That's for sure. Well, you know, I spend a lot
S4: of my time reflecting on the five love languages, because
S4: that concept has so changed my life and the lives
S4: of a lot of my counselors, and as well as
S4: millions of people who have gotten the concept. But I'm
S4: sitting here thinking that whole concept relies on the ability
S4: to pay attention to others and to yourself, right?
S1: Yeah, it's so important. And in my book, Listen to
S1: Your Day, I focus about four chapters on the topic
S1: of relationships, and I talk about your book, Dr. Chapman,
S1: because it is so important, I think, that the love
S1: languages have been so revolutionary for so many of us.
S1: But it really does start with that. That first ability
S1: of am I paying proper attention to the person across
S1: from me? Because really, it's hard to enact those love languages.
S1: It's hard to notice them if you're not paying attention
S1: to that person. And how do you how do you
S1: enact that love language if you're if you're not there
S1: in the moment and seeing and hearing what they're going
S1: through so that you can then figure out, okay, this
S1: is when that love language needs to come in. This
S1: is the time. This is the place because I'm paying
S1: attention to that moment. And if we're not, man, it's
S1: really hard. It's really hard to love anybody. Well, if
S1: you're not paying attention to them.
S2: This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. For
S2: more ways to strengthen relationships or to take a brief
S2: online quiz to determine your love language, go to our website.
S2: Building relationships.us.
S4: You know, one of the ways that you can pay
S4: attention in relationships is to listen well to the other person.
S4: Can you give us some some tips on how to
S4: do that?
S1: I think we can all relate that. Maybe we don't
S1: listen as well as we think we do, and maybe
S1: it just takes asking our spouse if we're a good
S1: listener or not. Maybe we don't want to ask that question.
S1: Or do our coworkers asking or even asking her coworkers.
S1: And maybe that's a good exercise to start with. If
S1: we want to be humble and really start working at this,
S1: start asking the people, the most important people in our lives,
S1: maybe our children, and ask them, hey, do you think
S1: I listen? Well, that might be a surprising conversation for
S1: many of us to have, you know? But there are
S1: simple things we can do. This is not this doesn't
S1: have to be rocket science, you know, and it's even
S1: built into the phrase when somebody might say to you,
S1: can you please give me your undivided attention? And I
S1: think that's a great place to start because so many,
S1: so much of our attention these days is divided. You know,
S1: it's divided between so many things at the same time.
S1: So some simple things like sitting down with somebody and
S1: looking at them in the eyes. You know, your body language,
S1: pointing your body toward somebody. You know, you can even
S1: go to a coffee shop and study people you know,
S1: don't do it. Don't stare at them too long, but
S1: study conversations that are taking place. I did this when
S1: I was writing the book, and I watched a couple
S1: as they were talking, and their bodies were kind of
S1: tilted away from each other. And then I watched the gentleman.
S1: I could tell that conversation was getting serious, and he
S1: and he literally rotated his chair so that he would
S1: point his shoulders in his face directly at the person
S1: instead of being at an angle, and even that simple thing.
S1: And he leaned forward. And then I watched that other
S1: person reciprocate, and they leaned forward. You know, because we
S1: match each other's body movements. And I could tell that
S1: the conversation really picked up because basically that person made
S1: an investment in the relationship with their with their body language.
S1: And it was really simple, but it had a profound effect.
S4: Yeah, I can certainly see that, you know, all the
S4: love languages first, start with our ability or inability to
S4: pay attention to the other person. So what's the relationship
S4: between building healthy relationships and our attention?
S1: Yeah, again, I think our connection and meaningful relationships, it
S1: all begins with paying proper attention to somebody. And so
S1: another thing that we can do, and we you touch
S1: on this at the beginning of the episode. It's something
S1: that you're really good at. Dr. Chapman is asking good
S1: questions of somebody. And so I even encourage younger people,
S1: let's say you're even going to like a networking event.
S1: You know, those would always terrify me. You know, you
S1: felt like you had to, like, give out your business
S1: cards like you're a car salesman or like you're in
S1: the Wild West and you're like, pulling out your business
S1: cards as fast as you can to hand them out
S1: to people and tell people, you're 30, 32nd elevator pitch.
S1: You got to have that down to tell people how
S1: amazing you are, right? And I started realizing that that
S1: was all wrong, you know, and I started encouraging younger
S1: people don't network like a machine, you know, go in
S1: relationship like a person. And in the. And the way
S1: you start doing that is don't even worry about talking
S1: about yourself. Throw out the elevator pitch. Nobody cares, to
S1: be honest. Go in and ask other people really good questions. Yeah,
S1: and try to get the other person talking about themselves
S1: for the first five minutes. Almost make it a game.
S1: Can you ask good questions to somebody else so that
S1: they'll talk about themselves for the first five minutes? And
S1: I bet you when they leave that conversation, even if
S1: you haven't said more than two words about yourself, what
S1: is that other person going to be thinking about you?
S1: They're going to be thinking, man, I really like that person. Wow.
S1: I really connected with them. Well, I'm going to I
S1: want to introduce them to my boss, to, you know,
S1: whatever it might be and they might not even realize
S1: that you never even said a word about yourself, but
S1: you just showed them love and respect by asking them
S1: good questions. And now they like you.
S4: That's for sure. You know, my wife can strike up
S4: a conversation in the grocery store, and she's really good
S4: at asking questions. And in 30 minutes, she knows the
S4: whole life story of that person. So questions are important.
S5: Exactly.
S4: Now you use the the word currency attention as a currency.
S4: What do you mean by that phrase.
S1: Yeah, it's it's actually built into the phrase. It's right there,
S1: you know, pay attention. And I think it's helpful to
S1: even think about it in those terms of what payments
S1: are you making with your attention. So what are you
S1: investing in with your attention? You know, are you investing in,
S1: let's say, your children, are you making payments with your attention,
S1: with your children, or are they just a distraction, or
S1: are they just in the way? Or are they a
S1: nuisance as you go and do more important things? Well,
S1: that's probably going to show up in your relationship with them. Yeah, right.
S1: You know, it's kind of that old adage that, you know,
S1: kids are misbehaving, you know, the real troubled kids. It's
S1: just a cry for attention, right? Yeah. And so it's
S1: like they'll do whatever it takes, good or bad, to
S1: get their parents attention. And, and I even see that,
S1: you know, in today's age, you know, we talk about
S1: younger people being narcissists by all the selfies, you know,
S1: showing selfie after selfie on the internet. And, you know,
S1: it's a bunch of narcissists. Well, I don't really see that,
S1: you know, narcissists. You know, back to the old mythology.
S1: You know, he fell in love with his own image,
S1: you know, and that's why he couldn't leave the pond, right?
S1: Because he fell in love so deeply with his own image.
S1: I don't see that with young people. And then posting selfies.
S1: I see it as a cry, as a yearning from
S1: their heart for somebody to see them, for somebody to
S1: hear them. You know, that there's that cry that's a
S1: yearning of their soul. And so they're doing it in
S1: this kind of misplaced way. But let me show another
S1: picture to get validation. Yeah. And so we as parents,
S1: even in that way, we can pay attention and we
S1: can make those investments in our kids. And then also,
S1: where are we in debt to our with our attention?
S1: Are we in debt to CNN and Fox News? Is
S1: that getting our choice attention every day, or to TikTok
S1: or Instagram or whatever it might be? Where are we
S1: in debt to with our attention? Because we are in
S1: an attention economy. Everything wants your attention, so we have
S1: to fight and be intentional about paying our attention into
S1: important places that we're going to reap the dividends for
S1: the rest of our lives.
S6: Yeah, well.
S4: I had never thought about attention as a currency, but
S4: I get it. Paying attention. In chapter five, you write
S4: about the importance of awkward, boring, quiet spaces. Is there
S4: a place for the mind to be silent? And how
S4: important is that?
S1: Oh man, you know, our minds weren't made for constant noise.
S1: They just really weren't, you know? And I almost equate
S1: it to, you know, that sponge at your kitchen sink, right.
S1: That that probably smells a little bit and you probably
S1: should have thrown it away, you know, a few weeks ago.
S1: And yet we keep using it all the time like
S1: it's still cleaning our dishes. It always baffles me that
S1: we do this. Yeah, but but but a sponge, if
S1: it's constantly in water or if it's constantly soggy, you know,
S1: it becomes that way, it becomes mildewy, it becomes smelly
S1: because it's never been given that chance to dry out. Yeah.
S1: And I equate that to our minds. You know, we're
S1: not giving our minds the ability to just dry out,
S1: to be at quiet, to be at peace, to be
S1: at rest, to be praying or meditating, you know, asking God,
S1: fill me with your thoughts, fill me with your peace,
S1: you know. And if we're constantly giving ourselves a noise,
S1: you know, we're becoming that sponge. That's just it's constantly
S1: in water and it kind of begins. Is to smell
S1: and lose its effectiveness.
S4: Why do you think so many of us are uncomfortable
S4: in these quiet spaces? Or other things are going on,
S4: and we just feel like, you know, we're not wasting time, though,
S4: are we?
S1: Yeah. You know, I think I think we've lied to
S1: ourselves a little bit that we always have to be
S1: doing something. Yeah. You know, and I think we've kind
S1: of lost it on the altar of productivity sometimes where
S1: I always need to be productive. Yeah, but actually, I
S1: would argue that by always jumping on your phone, any, any,
S1: you know, any space, any boring moment that you have,
S1: you're probably being very counterproductive. That's probably the least productive
S1: thing you could do. And actually, I found while I
S1: was writing my book, I started scheduling into my day
S1: a 30 to 45 minute walk where that was on
S1: my calendar, and I would schedule that in and I
S1: wouldn't listen to anything. You know, as amazing as this
S1: podcast is, you know, I wasn't listening to any podcasts.
S1: You know, I was just listening. What? Listening to my day,
S1: I was listening to the Lord, and I was just
S1: listening to the birds and my footsteps on the ground.
S1: And I'm telling you, those 40 minutes I wrote so
S1: much of my book on those walks, because that's when
S1: I was getting the ideas, you know, aha moments. They
S1: don't happen by accident. They happen in those quiet, still
S1: moments where our minds and our hearts are at rest
S1: so that the Lord can speak to us and we
S1: actually are listening.
S4: I've had a personal devotional time with God, of course,
S4: for years, you know, but in the last, I don't know,
S4: 3 or 4 months after I read the scriptures and
S4: talked to God about whatever he had in that conversation,
S4: I've just been sitting there and saying, father, I just
S4: want to sit here in your presence and just enjoy
S4: your presence. And it's absolutely incredible. You know, the sense
S4: of warmth and awareness that that he's with us, you know.
S4: So yeah, I'm identifying with that for sure. Wow. Why
S4: is it important to intentionally decide where our attention is placed?
S4: Because we're the ones that decide that, right?
S7: Yeah.
S1: You know, I think there's been a lot of studies
S1: through psychology and neuroscience that's been studying attention in our
S1: ability to pay attention. And I dive into a lot
S1: of that in the book to kind of get the
S1: neuroscience behind this as well. And there's a theory called
S1: inattentional blindness. So actually, psychologists have been somewhat alarmed or
S1: surprised that we actually don't see so much of what
S1: comes in front of us every day. So I mentioned
S1: a video that maybe some of us have seen a
S1: video like this. I'll do this on my keynotes when
S1: I'm talking to leaders about attention and paying proper attention,
S1: where there's a team in white and a team in black,
S1: and they're throwing the ball around and the narrator asks,
S1: how much passes does the team in white make? And
S1: I tell people, you know, really focus. I want to
S1: see who's paying attention in the room. And the video
S1: starts going. They start throwing passes around, and the narrator
S1: stops and I say, well, who got the answer right?
S1: And everybody shouts out, seven! And sure enough, the answer
S1: is seven. And everybody cheers. It was seven passes, but
S1: then the narrator stops and says, but did you see
S1: the moonwalking bear? And everybody's like, what? You know, and
S1: they rewind the video and sure enough, a man in
S1: a full sized bear costume moonwalks across the entire screen.
S1: But you don't see them. Yeah, because you only see
S1: what you're looking for. So really paying attention is not
S1: a passive endeavor. It's an intentional choice. So we actually
S1: make our minds up and we choose what we pay
S1: attention to. You know, that's why you can see somebody
S1: who's made their mind up, even when they're going through
S1: the worst things in their life. And we know people
S1: like this. They're going through such hard things, but they're
S1: still joyful. Yeah, they're still at peace. They still have
S1: rest in their lives. It's because they've chosen to pay
S1: attention to the good things instead of dwelling on the bad.
S1: That's an intentional choice that they've made. So attention is
S1: not a passive thing. Paying attention is an intentional choice. Yeah.
S3: Gary, I think that this is one of those relational
S3: things in marriages and friendships, whatever. If you only see
S3: what you're looking for, then you're not seeing what you're
S3: not looking for. And so that that could change a marriage,
S3: it could change a church, couldn't it?
S4: Yeah. I think you're right, Chris. No question about it.
S4: I think this the concept of this book, the heart
S4: of this book is something we need to we need
S4: to regain in our culture. Yeah.
S3: What do you say about that, Paul? Have you seen this?
S3: Have you been? Have you not seen the moonwalking bear
S3: in your own marriage?
S1: Yeah. You know, I have, and really again, forced me
S1: to live out what I was writing. So I even
S1: took the, you know, I took the time to, you know,
S1: when my, let's say, my wife and I are going
S1: to have a serious discussion. You know, we all know these, right?
S1: Where you're kind of dreading talking about something that's important,
S1: you know, and I'm passive aggressive. I don't like conflict,
S1: so I run from it. You know, that's kind of
S1: what I learned from a young age is when conflict
S1: was going on. I would run in my household, I
S1: would hide and and I feel I do the same thing.
S1: So I've had to become better at that. But but
S1: I made a choice and I thought, well, let me
S1: just try this, you know? And so instead of just
S1: going straight to, here's what's bothering me about you, or
S1: here's what I'm annoyed with, you know, I tried to
S1: I tried to pay attention and really set a foundation
S1: for the conversation by directing our attention to, you know what?
S1: I know we both really value, trust and respect with
S1: each other, and I know we both want to build
S1: a better relationship every day with each other. And that's
S1: why I want to talk to you about this, because
S1: I want us to just keep doing a better job
S1: at building this trust. Yeah. So, so directing our attention
S1: to the foundation, to, hey, we're both in this together.
S1: You know, we're in this foxhole together, basically. You know,
S1: we both have each other's backs and we're going to
S1: look after each other. And to do this better, I
S1: want to talk about this. And that really had a
S1: more profound effect. Instead of me just you. Right. Just
S1: throwing it right in their face, which I think is
S1: what happens most of the time. You know, instead of
S1: serving it up kind of on a platter in front
S1: of somebody, we just take that platter and shove it
S1: right in their face and say, listen to me. Well,
S1: that doesn't have a great effect. I think most of
S1: us have learned in our marriage that that's not a
S1: great place to start.
S4: Well, that's that's a powerful point you just made. Tell
S4: them why you want to talk about this. The foundational
S4: thing we want to keep growing, you know, and I
S4: know you want to keep growing. So let's talk about this. Yeah.
S4: That's great.
S2: Thanks for joining us today for building relationships with Dr.
S2: Gary Chapman. You can find us online at Building relationships.us.
S2: We have some great resources for you. A list of
S2: seminar locations coming up for Dr. Chapman. You can hear
S2: a podcast of the program and find our featured resource,
S2: Paul Anthony's book, Listen to Your Day The life Changing
S2: Practice of Paying Attention. Just go to building relationships.us.
S4: Well, we've been talking about and so far that in
S4: our culture we seem to have lost the art or
S4: the skill or the practice of really paying attention. Why
S4: is that? Why do you think we've gotten to this
S4: place and and what's the hope of regaining it?
S1: Yeah, I think I think this is such an important topic, obviously.
S1: This is why I wrote about it. Because I think
S1: there is such a battle for our attention these days.
S1: You know, as we spoke about before, we're in an
S1: attention economy and every app and social media platform, they're
S1: all battling for our time and attention, and they are
S1: getting more and more advanced with AI and all these
S1: different systems. That's tracking our every move, and it's just
S1: showing us what it knows we want to see, because
S1: it wants to suck us in, right? And take our
S1: time and attention. You know, where even even even technologies
S1: like that I talk about in the book, the The
S1: Infinite Scroll is one technology and that's on something. It's
S1: on lots of them. But let's say Instagram Stories where
S1: you click on a story and it shows you something.
S1: And then what does it do? It it just scrolls
S1: right to the next one seamlessly. Right? It doesn't even
S1: give you a chance to think about it. And they've
S1: done that intentionally. And one engineer that I, that I
S1: research for the book, he called it like behavioral cocaine
S1: is what they've created and they've done it to be
S1: as maximally addictive as possible. And they don't want your
S1: brain to catch up to what you're watching so that
S1: you will continue to just watch ten, 15, 20 minutes
S1: of mindless videos so that you get sucked in and
S1: spend more of your time on that platform. Yeah. So
S1: that's why I do think it's so important now more
S1: than ever, for us to be intentional with our attention
S1: and really take it back, because we used to answer
S1: our phones only when they were ringing. Now we're answering
S1: our phones when they're not even making a sound. Yeah, yeah.
S4: So do you think that that the technology has been
S4: a big part of getting us to where we are
S4: and not paying attention to the things that surround us?
S1: I definitely think so. You know, and I think it's
S1: only going to get more intense. Yeah. There was a
S1: gentleman called by the name of Vance Packard, and he
S1: he wrote about the master manipulators that were invading the
S1: privacy of our minds. And he was really worried about this.
S1: And he felt like, man, we really have to protect
S1: the privacy of our minds because they're invading it, you know?
S1: And he he called it the Hidden Persuaders. You know,
S1: this was a book that he wrote in 1957. You know,
S1: he was worried about this in 1957 with the advertising
S1: and marketing that was taking place. And people were really
S1: alarmed about this. Well, gosh, how much more advanced have
S1: those master manipulators become where it's not even people anymore.
S1: It's not the Mad Men right in the office drinking whiskey,
S1: thinking about how they're going to influence us. These are
S1: these are dialed in AI systems that might know us
S1: better than our spouse knows us. Yeah, and that's alarming,
S1: you know, and it's catering sometimes to the worst part
S1: of us, to our sinful nature. And that's what it's
S1: going to cater to. So I do think it is
S1: such an alarming and an important part of our history
S1: to take back our attention and say, this is mine.
S1: I need to choose where I'm placing this and not
S1: let somebody else or something else make that decision for me.
S6: Yeah.
S4: So you were talking about this, you know, the mindless scrolling, just,
S4: you know, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling and our social media and
S4: our mind is still working. What effect can this have
S4: on our mental health?
S1: Oh, man. You know, we're seeing those. As you know, Dr. Chapman,
S1: you know, all the all the studies that are coming
S1: about about, you know, anxiety levels going through the roof,
S1: depression levels, suicide, you know, especially for younger people, you know,
S1: this is an epidemic, you know, and obviously, we can't
S1: equate it to just one thing. You know, this is
S1: a multilayered thing in our in our society. But but
S1: I do get alarmed, and especially with younger people, when
S1: the email that I would get the most from them.
S1: And these are people that are highly connected online that
S1: might have thousands and thousands of connections online, and the
S1: email I get the most from them. Is. I feel
S1: so alone. Yeah, and that's such a paradox in our
S1: society to be instantly connected globally. And yet you feel
S1: more alone and isolated than ever. You know, and it
S1: goes back to that obsessive comparison disorder. It goes back
S1: to just that lack of authentic and vulnerable relationships with people,
S1: because it's all so highly manicured and it's built on
S1: this online system. So I think it has great effects
S1: to our mental health, this this lack of connection and
S1: real relationships with people. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. You know, no question about it. You know, and
S4: the research talks about loneliness, you know, on college campuses,
S4: for example, that it's a huge problem here. They are
S4: intelligent people from all over, you know, gathered together. They
S4: don't really know anybody, but they're doing all this studying
S4: and all the other things online and and yet failed
S4: alone around people all the time and exposing themselves on
S4: the screens to people all the time, and yet not
S4: having any real personal interfacing with people on an honest level,
S4: you know, and building friendships and that sort of thing.
S4: It's just it's tragic really, to see, to see what's happening.
S4: Why is it important to do physical things in a
S4: physical world?
S1: I think sometimes we forget, you know, that we are
S1: physical beings, you know? And you know, I remember thinking
S1: how much my back and my legs and my body
S1: was hurting from my complete lack of movement, not because
S1: I was over exerting myself is because I had no
S1: exertion whatsoever. I was just sitting at a computer all day. Yeah,
S1: and I think there is something so powerful with doing
S1: something physical in a physical world, something that you enjoy,
S1: you know, and that could be, you know, some like gardening,
S1: you know, gardening for me is something I really enjoy
S1: where digging in the earth, planting things, seeing it grow,
S1: doing it with my children, you know, they they know
S1: all the vegetable plants. They know what's what. And they're
S1: out there picking the tomatoes before I can get there.
S1: And that's the biggest problem is they they pick the choices. Tomatoes,
S1: they're gobble them up before I can even know they're
S1: they're ripened, you know. But that's that's sometimes the only
S1: way they'll eat a vegetable is if it's coming from
S1: the garden. And they and they see it, you know,
S1: and but those are, those are such important, rich, meaningful
S1: times that we just kind of step in to God's creation. Yeah.
S1: To the way that he has designed things and to
S1: get away from the screen. You know, I think we
S1: would do more for our mental health by digging a
S1: hole in the ground for a meaningful purpose than we
S1: would from 15 minutes digging in some, you know, drama,
S1: some dirt online. You know, that's what people are dishing
S1: out the dirt online. You would do more for yourself
S1: if you just dug a hole in the ground. You know,
S1: and you would probably learn more about yourself and you
S1: would get more feelings of peace and contentment than than
S1: you would the other way.
S6: Yeah, yeah.
S4: You know, you're talking about the garden now. You're taking
S4: me back to my childhood because my my father had
S4: a garden. And for as long as I can remember,
S4: we were out there planting potatoes and beans and all
S4: that other stuff and then bringing them in. And my
S4: mother canned them and, you know, and we didn't even
S4: have television in those days. Okay.
S8: Yeah. I'll tell you how old I am. Well, but.
S1: Those were those those those were those rich, seminal memories,
S1: you know, that it's still coming back to you, shows
S1: you that level of importance and probably that connection that
S1: you grew with your father during those times.
S4: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You know.
S1: And again, if we always have devices around in TV
S1: and everything, like you said, there's such a disconnect in
S1: all our connection.
S6: Yeah, yeah.
S4: Well, you know, we're we're talking about so much information, okay.
S4: We're talking about being saturated with information. Information information information.
S4: How can we break free from information overload. And actually
S4: comprehend what we're consuming and understand what's going on? Yeah,
S4: because we're kind of blinded to it seems like.
S9: Yeah, yeah.
S1: Again, I think we've, I think we've bought into a
S1: lie of sorts. That information equals wisdom that that the
S1: more information you get, the more wise you are. And
S1: that's not necessarily true. You know, and I think we
S1: can look in today's age and really paint a pretty
S1: bleak picture, that the sheer volume of information has not
S1: led to a sheer increase of wisdom, because, you know, obviously,
S1: wisdom is is information and knowledge applied correctly in this
S1: season and the time and the place that you're living,
S1: you know, you could you could say the same thing,
S1: but you could say it at the wrong time and
S1: it could lead to a bad outcome. Yeah. So so
S1: really we would be better off, I think sometimes of
S1: just hearing something, let's say even from a podcast, even
S1: as somebody listening to this podcast, if they heard something
S1: that really struck them as profound, I think they'd be
S1: really well off to just pause, pause the podcast and
S1: think about it. You know, think about what you just
S1: heard right about it, you know, really reflect on that
S1: because we again, we get so much good information. There's
S1: so many great teachers out there and we're hearing so
S1: much great information, but we'd be better off just taking
S1: even just one nugget at a time and pausing and
S1: reflecting so that we can digest it and we can
S1: figure out, okay, how do I translate this to wisdom
S1: in my life? How do I really take this in
S1: and make it a part of my life? And just
S1: instead of just more information that's just going in one ear,
S1: out the other.
S2: This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Our
S2: featured resource today is Paul Anthony's book Listen to Your
S2: Day The Life Changing Practice of Paying Attention. Find out
S2: more at building relationships.us.
S10: Paul.
S4: We mentioned phones several times in our conversation here, and
S4: you write that often our phones is really a method
S4: to escape. What do you mean by that? And why
S4: do you think that's true?
S1: Yeah. You know, I really realized in my own life
S1: and as I looked at others as well, that that
S1: we've become really good cultural escape artists where, again, we
S1: can escape any awkward situation that we're in now. And
S1: like we even mentioned before, we got as at the
S1: onset of this conversation, we talked about even like an
S1: airplane ride. You know, now when we sit down next
S1: to that person, you know, it's like it's like that
S1: ten minutes before you can take out your devices again.
S1: You know, it's kind of like the scariest moment of
S1: the plane ride. It's not because you're taking off and
S1: flying thousands of feet in the air. It's because I
S1: can't have my computer. And what am I going to do?
S1: I don't want to. I can't talk to this person.
S1: Let me put my hood on and just pretend like
S1: I'm sleeping, you know, for those ten minutes. And that's
S1: how much we dread almost that conversation. But but I
S1: started thinking about, you know, we talk about chance encounters,
S1: you know, with people. And I started thinking about it
S1: as not so chance encounters because what are the what
S1: are the odds that you're sitting next to that person
S1: on the plane right now? Yeah. What are the odds?
S1: They're astronomical. What are what are the odds that you're
S1: in line with that person right now? Or that you've
S1: struck up a conversation with somebody at the coffee shop?
S1: The odds are, you know, out of this world. And
S1: so what is God orchestrating? You know, in at least
S1: should we give God the chance? And should we at
S1: least pay attention to maybe what God is trying to
S1: show us, what God is trying to bring into our
S1: lives through these not so chance encounters. And I'm telling you,
S1: even with what I call an awkward wanderer at conferences,
S1: that's why I encourage young people to do. I say
S1: go do an awkward wander around a conference with no
S1: set idea what you're doing, just awkwardly wander around and
S1: strike up conversations with people. And I'm telling you, that's
S1: how I got one of my book deals was just
S1: awkwardly wandering around in a conference. I went up to
S1: the lady selling books at a major publishing house. I
S1: complimented her, I complimented the setup. I mean, it was
S1: really well done. I just wanted to talk to her.
S1: I had no ideas of any. I didn't even think
S1: it was possible for me to get a book deal
S1: with them. But just that one conversation with her led
S1: me to her introducing me to the VP of marketing.
S1: And that's where I got my book deal. And so
S1: we never know those not so chance encounters that were
S1: missing every day because we're again escaping cultural escape artists
S1: into our phones and missing what the profound things that
S1: God wants to do in our life.
S4: You know, I had an experience like that just recently
S4: on a on a plane, a man walked in with
S4: a long beard and sat down beside of me. And
S4: I don't remember how we started the conversation, but he
S4: eventually said to me, I have not been in civilization
S4: for five months. I've been in Alaska taking people on
S4: hunting trips and fishing trips, and this is I'm going
S4: home because my mother is sick and I want to
S4: see my mother and dad. And we had one of
S4: the most meaningful conversations, you know, and he just poured
S4: his heart out to me and, you know, and I
S4: walked off the plane and said, thank you, God. The
S4: chances of our sitting together, I mean, what are the
S4: chances of that? You know, the whole book here is
S4: talking about listening to my day. So how can I
S4: know if I'm listening to my day?
S1: Well, first off, you know, obviously pick up the book, right?
S1: That's the that's the answer, you know. But but no,
S1: but but but in the book I really do I
S1: leave a lot of places for people to write and,
S1: and I'm asking readers, you know, poignant questions throughout the
S1: whole process and giving people exercises so that you can
S1: begin to practice paying attention. And again, I do think
S1: this is something that we can practice. We can improve
S1: upon our ability to pay attention to what's important. It
S1: doesn't just come naturally for many of us, it's something
S1: that we need to work on. And I'm telling you,
S1: if you do put in that time in that work, man,
S1: you're going to see amazing outcomes. You're going to see
S1: forward movement in your life, clarity in your life, stronger relationships,
S1: and building those stronger connections with people. And in the
S1: last five, six chapters of the book, I even talk
S1: about mindset models, which is basically kind of like exercises
S1: for somebody to practice paying attention in a different way.
S1: So I even have something like the entrepreneurial mindset model,
S1: you know, how do you look at your day, listen
S1: to your day, but do it through the lens like
S1: an entrepreneur would? Even if you don't think yourself as entrepreneurial? Well,
S1: let's think like an entrepreneur today and see what that changes.
S1: You know, an entrepreneur, they probably they pay attention to
S1: their problems in a different way, where they might see
S1: a problem in their day and where other people might
S1: get frustrated and get mad. An entrepreneur might see a
S1: problem and they might get really excited. Someone must have
S1: done something about this problem. Let me research and then
S1: they get even more excited if. Figured out no one's
S1: even touched this problem yet, because now that's led to
S1: a chance for a product, for their purpose, to step
S1: in and solve that problem. Yeah. So there's lots of
S1: these different things that are really helpful to kind of
S1: get out of our, our lane, our frame of looking
S1: at things and to look at our day from different angles.
S1: And I'm telling you, it's been really profound for me
S1: to to do these in my own life because I
S1: just I've seen so much different things that I wouldn't
S1: have done because you need that different perspective. Yeah.
S4: Well, you also talk about, you know, giving the mind
S4: a path and a purpose for each day. How does
S4: how does that bring clarity.
S1: Something as simple as how we're starting our day, you know,
S1: and I know there's been tons of books and tons
S1: of people have talked about this, but but it's really
S1: a travesty. If we start our day with distractions, we
S1: really have to be intentional about how we start our day.
S1: And you have to make your day bigger than your distractions,
S1: you know? And this goes back to your your why,
S1: you know, this goes back to your purpose, your reason
S1: for each day. And so even starting your day with
S1: a question to yourself of what do I really want
S1: to pay attention to today? What's important to me today?
S1: What do I really want to focus my choice attention
S1: to today? And we'll all have different answers to that question.
S1: But at least by asking yourself that, you're giving your
S1: mind direction and a purpose to that day, so that
S1: when you do start going down the rabbit hole of distraction,
S1: that might be the thing that stops you and say,
S1: you know what? My day is more important than this distraction.
S1: So I need to stop because I really want to
S1: pay attention to this business idea, to the next page
S1: I'm writing, to my spouse, to my kids, to my coworkers.
S1: I really want to pay my attention there because again,
S1: I want to pay dividends with this investment of my attention.
S1: So that's how we start making those intentional choices to
S1: give our mind a map and a pathway to paying
S1: better attention. Yeah.
S4: Well, Paul, we've been talking a lot about this topic,
S4: and I think our hope and our listeners are listening
S4: and will begin to take some steps. So what is
S4: one action step that our listeners should take after hearing
S4: our conversation on this topic today?
S1: You know, I think we've mentioned quite a few of them.
S1: You know, there's been great examples of things that people
S1: can do, again, to be more intentional with their attention
S1: and how important this topic is right now. You know,
S1: some one simple thing I've done is even with my
S1: phone and the relationship I have with my phone is
S1: I've put in my home screen image when I pull up,
S1: my phone is its sentence, and it has a picture
S1: of my book on it. But there's a there's a
S1: sentence that says, do I need to pick up my
S1: phone right now? And that's the that's what I look at. Yeah.
S1: When when I pick up my phone. Because at least
S1: that that stops me sometimes. At least it helps my
S1: mind catch up with my this reflex response so that
S1: I at least can make an intentional choice. Or not
S1: to say, okay, no, I don't. I was just doing
S1: this because I was feeling awkward, I was escaping, let
S1: me just pray. Let me just sit. Let me be silent.
S1: Let me think for a moment instead of just mindlessly
S1: jumping on the phone. So that's even something simple we
S1: can do, you know, put your phone in a different room,
S1: you know, really start rethinking your relationship with your phone.
S1: And are you just doing it as a reflex response,
S1: or are you using your phone with intentionality?
S4: Just by nature? In our culture, if we don't have
S4: something to do this very moment, we pick up our phone, right, exactly. And, and,
S4: and and that takes us, you know, Lord knows where.
S4: Whereas if we didn't pick up the phone and just
S4: thought about what would be good for me to do
S4: the next five minutes, yeah, it's amazing what how.
S5: Different exactly.
S4: How different life may be would be. You know.
S1: And when I go to speaking engagements, I'll ask people,
S1: you know, who after 20 or 30 minutes on your phone,
S1: on Instagram or X or what? Facebook? How many of
S1: us leave that time and think to ourselves, man, I
S1: feel so much better about my life. You know, I
S1: feel like that was a great use of my time.
S1: You know, I feel so much more productive and energized, right? Yeah.
S1: We don't usually leave feeling that way. And so, I mean, honestly,
S1: isn't that the telltale sign of an addiction in some
S1: of our lives where it's something we don't even want
S1: to do and it's not healthy for us to do,
S1: and yet we keep smoking that cigarette. Yeah. You know,
S1: or we keep eating that junk food. You know, it's
S1: that same concept that we have to be we have
S1: to have a discipline, really a self discipline and a
S1: spiritual discipline with how am I choosing to pay my attention.
S1: And it really is that important because what again, you
S1: pay attention to, you become. So do you want to
S1: become the things you're paying attention to online, or do
S1: you want to become more like, you know, your Lord Jesus,
S1: or do you want to become a better dad, or
S1: a better mom or a better spouse? What do you
S1: want to become? Because that's what you need to pay
S1: attention to. Yeah.
S4: Yeah. Other place I've noticed this is, you know, we're
S4: so addicted to the phone that when we're having a
S4: meaningful conversation with our child or with our spouse and
S4: our cell phone rings, 99 out of 100 are going
S4: to answer the cell phone and communicate to their spouse
S4: or their child, somebody out there is more important than
S4: you are.
S6: Yeah.
S4: And I don't know. That's not what we're thinking in
S4: our minds, but that's really what we're communicating. Yep. So wow.
S4: Well Paul, this has been a great conversation. It's a
S4: good book. And I hope our listeners will not only
S4: listen to what we're saying today, but we'll get the
S4: book and eat from these concepts and began to change some,
S4: some patterns in their life, being more intentional to see
S4: where they are and to focus on what constructive things
S4: do I need to be doing today that are more
S4: constructive than simply just picking up a phone and seeing
S4: what's going on in the world. So thanks for being
S4: with us today.
S1: Thank you so much for this rich conversation. It's been
S1: an honor being here.
S3: Paul Langone has been our guest. If you go to
S3: Building Relationships us, you'll see our featured resource. Listen to
S3: your day. The life changing practice of paying attention again.
S3: Go to building Relationships with us.
S4: And next week it's our Post-thanksgiving edition of Dear Gary.
S2: You can ask a question of Dr. Chapman by calling
S2: our listener line 1866424 Gary again. 866424 Gary. A big
S2: thank you today to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice.
S2: Backing building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production
S2: of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry
S2: of Moody Bible Institute. Thank.