S1: Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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S1: awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse
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S1: that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
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S1: because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you
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S1: ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3: This time the conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4: Americans worshipping government over God.
S5: Extremely rare safety move by a mage 17 years.
S4: The Palestinians and the Israelis negotiated a truce.
S5: Hi, friends.
S1: Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Thrilled. We're
S1: going to spend the hour together. Oh, do you hear
S1: that cacophony in the marketplace of ideas? Well, if you
S1: walk around with me, and I hope you're out there.
S1: And I hope you're doing just that, walking around, listening
S1: with the ears on your heart to what the culture
S1: is saying, you know that one of the most intense,
S1: some would say argumentative topics today happens to be the
S1: nation of Israel. I just don't get it. But then again,
S1: walking through life with the Bible in one hand and
S1: newspaper in the other, I guess I do kind of
S1: get it. So when you take a look at the
S1: nation of Israel, this becomes a recognized globally state in 1948.
S1: Now for us, as followers of Jesus Christ, walking through
S1: life with that Bible in one hand and the newspaper
S1: in the other, you realize that this is a fulfillment
S1: of prophecy. Finally, the Jewish people have a recognized homeland.
S1: Now the Jews have been there for thousands and thousands
S1: and thousands of years. How do I know? Well, when
S1: all else fails, read the instructions. You have archaeological evidence.
S1: You have historical evidence. You have biblical evidence. It's indisputable
S1: that God's precious and chosen people have been there for millennia.
S1: So why is it so contentious? Well, I my $0.02,
S1: and that's all it's worth. Maybe in this economy, maybe
S1: a penny and a half. But I'll share it anyway.
S1: I think it's because ultimately this is a spiritual battle
S1: that because God has chosen the Jewish people, called them
S1: the chosen people, loves them dearly. How do I know that?
S1: Because he tells us that. And the word that somehow
S1: in the heavenlies where we can't see this spiritual warfare
S1: that's going on, it is a raging spiritual battle for
S1: us as believers. I believe it's because if Satan can
S1: knock out the reality of a Jewish Messiah, Well, then
S1: there is no hope of redemption. And in doing so,
S1: one needs to wipe out the Jewish people. So history
S1: is littered with attempts to wipe out the Jewish people,
S1: whether it's Herod or whether it's Pharaoh or whether it's Hitler.
S1: The list goes on and on and on and on.
S1: Should not be surprised, but then stop. Hit the pause button.
S1: Did you ever stop and realize that our great and
S1: glorious God could have chosen the Celts, the Picts, the Normans,
S1: the Saxons? He didn't. He chose the Jewish people. I
S1: don't know why. When we get to glory, we can
S1: ask him. But I'm going to tell you what he's got.
S1: I'm not. His thoughts are far above mine, and all
S1: I know is that he chose them to fill fulfill
S1: his plan, his great and perfect and wondrous plan. So
S1: we always keep our eyes on the nation of Israel
S1: because it's significant historically, it's making headlines today. We need
S1: to be praying today for the peace of Jerusalem, and
S1: certainly will play a significant role in the days ahead.
S1: So we're going to talk about Israel, and we're going
S1: to separate fact from fiction and bigotry from reality. And
S1: there's so much bigotry around the nation of Israel. Again,
S1: should not be surprised. Now to help us learn more
S1: about this is Doctor Michael Radonich, who is vice president
S1: and academic dean and professor of Jewish studies and Bible
S1: at Moody Bible Institute. For more than three decades, he
S1: was the program head of Jewish Studies, a unique 103
S1: year old legacy major at WME. Thanks be to God.
S1: May it ever be their superglued into the walls of
S1: that Augustus Institute. Besides Jewish studies, he has taught extensively
S1: in other fields, including Bible theology, applied theology. He's a
S1: graduate himself of Moody's Jewish Studies program, and has a
S1: BA degree from Azusa Pacific University and a master's in
S1: theology from Dallas Theological Seminary. His doctorate is from Trinity
S1: Evangelical Divinity School, where his dissertation research. You know, I
S1: love to ask people about their dissertations when they got
S1: their PhD, what did it do? Of course, no surprise.
S1: It focused on the Messiah of the Hebrew Bible. He's
S1: also the host and Bible teacher of Open Line with
S1: Doctor Michael Riedel on hundreds of stations all across the country.
S1: People love his program. And if you don't know, he
S1: is indeed the son of Holocaust survivors. He was raised
S1: in an observant Jewish household in Brooklyn, New York. As
S1: a high school student, he became a follower of Yeshua
S1: the Messiah and began teaching the Bible almost immediately. Besides
S1: his work on the Moody Bible Commentary, the best. If
S1: you don't have one in your house, tell me why.
S1: And The Moody Handbook of Messianic Prophecy as co-editor and contributor,
S1: he's also the author of the 50 Most Important Bible Questions.
S1: The messianic hope. Is the Hebrew Bible really messianic and
S1: understanding the Arab-Israeli conflict? He has contributed to various study Bibles,
S1: academic journals, and other books, and I really put out
S1: as a resource particularly germane to our conversation today, The
S1: Moody Handbook of Messianic Prophecy Studies and expositions of the
S1: Messiah in the Old Testament, not the New Testament. So
S1: if I were a trial lawyer and doctor were my
S1: expert witness, I would have to say I just read
S1: his credentials in front of the jury so they would
S1: know this man knows whereof he speaks. Aside from that,
S1: he's a really great guy. Michael, thank you so much
S1: for spending the hour with me.
S6: Oh, thank you for having me. It's a little frightening
S6: when you read all that. It's like, oh.
S1: Did you get tired?
S6: Well, I'm like, ooh, what did, uh, Howard Hendricks say? The, uh,
S6: the the glorification of the worm is what you used
S6: to call introductions like that, so.
S1: Oh my goodness. Well, if I say it, it's not
S1: committing the sin of pride's. Right. So I'm saying it,
S1: and I'm saying it proudly about my friend Doctor Michael. Oh, Michael,
S1: there's so much you want to talk to you about.
S1: And the thing I love about our regular visits is
S1: I don't have to worry about what we call in
S1: radio time stamping that talk about current events. And I
S1: think in Israel, that's prescient. We need to be talking
S1: about current events. So let me just fast forward. Today
S1: is Thursday. On Saturday you're going to see across the country,
S1: probably close to 2000 1000 protests and rallies they are expecting.
S1: In LA alone 250,000 people to attend, far more than
S1: the 70,001st anticipated. They've got a map. The heiress of
S1: Walmart is very much behind this funding it. She put
S1: out a full page ad in a major newspaper. You've
S1: got a website where you can sign up, you can go,
S1: you can protest. It happens on Flag Day, which is interesting.
S1: Happens to be my grandfather's birthday, who came into this
S1: country legally as an immigrant. So that has a particular
S1: paradox for me. Happens to be the president's birthday as well,
S1: happens to be the birthday of the U.S. Army. So
S1: here in my town of D.C., they're going to have
S1: this huge parade honoring our military forces. And so the
S1: protesters decided they'd kind of skipped DC that day, because
S1: it just might be a little rough for them to
S1: be there. But in the midst of all of this,
S1: and of course, the legacy alphabet soup media will make
S1: this the topic du jour, not just on Saturday, but
S1: probably throughout the entire weekend. And I want my friends
S1: to picture this. So it isn't just going to be about, quote,
S1: illegal immigration, because it's not now. It's a panoply of chaos.
S1: You have BLM, Black Lives Matter, Antifa. You've got paid protesters.
S1: Isn't it amazing? They all come with these professionally produced signs.
S1: You think they did that in Bob's garage? So you
S1: know that somebody is funding. We've already got photos of
S1: people handing out masks in LA where they buy those
S1: at Walmart. Why would somebody come and hand out masks?
S1: So one of the things I'm concerned about and I
S1: want to ask you about this is why in so
S1: many of these events, are they waving a Palestinian flag? Hello.
S1: What does that have to do with allegedly what the
S1: issue is, which is ice. Following up now and arresting
S1: people who've entered this country illegally. Now, there's a subtext
S1: to that. And I think thinking people want to know
S1: why do the protestors free, free, free Palestine that chant
S1: from the river to the sea. Most of them can't
S1: name the river. They don't know the sea. Why is
S1: that folded into all of this? We got a lot
S1: to unpack. And then one of the questions we're going
S1: to tackle this hour is Israel has been accused of genocide.
S1: Do the facts bear that out? Oh, yeah. And what
S1: happens next week at the U.N.. Mhm. Got a lot
S1: to talk about. So fasten your seat belts. Keep your
S1: hands inside the ride at all times. It's going to
S1: be a great conversation back after this. So many in
S1: our culture today are spiritually curious but hesitant about religion.
S1: That's why I've chosen. Have you ever wondered is this
S1: month's truth tool explore how everyday experiences might be the
S1: signpost pointing to deeper biblical truths. As for your copy
S1: of have you ever wondered when you give a gift
S1: of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758.
S1: That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with
S1: Janet Parshall. I. Love spending time with Doctor Michael. He's
S1: such a superb teacher. He is VP and academic, dean
S1: and professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute,
S1: a prolific author. And again, just to let you know,
S1: I've chosen one as our resource. This time it's the
S1: Moody Handbook of Messianic Prophecy, studies and These and expositions
S1: of the Messiah in the Old Testament. So going right
S1: back to the question I asked Michael just before the break,
S1: and this panoply of rebellion and lawlessness that we will
S1: see this weekend and believers, this is where we need
S1: to pray for people's safety, for their security, those who
S1: are the law enforcement and people there that they won't
S1: get hurt. Because this is why we want evidence for
S1: the sin nature of man. I give you what we're
S1: going to see this weekend. It's lawlessness and rebellion. Why
S1: do cries to free Palestine show up in the midst
S1: of this, do you think, Michael?
S6: Well, I think it's the issue of intersectionality. That's why
S6: we no longer have a protest about anything else. It's
S6: a protest. It's an omni protest. You know, we are
S6: going to protest everything about everything. And the intersectionality is
S6: a term that maybe people don't understand. But for example,
S6: if you're going to protest, uh, arresting illegal, uh, I
S6: don't know, immigrants, aliens, whatever the term du jour is,
S6: if they're going to be arrested for illegally entering and
S6: staying in our country, then we have to protest against
S6: any kind of perceived oppression which would lead to other
S6: groups coming in and protesting racial prejudice. And then on
S6: top of that, there's this image. And it's a false
S6: one that somehow if we if we look at things
S6: in terms of skin color, uh, the idea is white
S6: people oppress, uh, dark skinned people. There's an arbitrary choice.
S6: Because if you've been to Israel, I know you have Janet. Right?
S1: Several times. Right? As have you, my friend.
S6: Palestinians and Israelis look identical.
S1: That's exactly.
S6: Right. You know, but it's been determined that Israel now,
S6: since about 1967, is the dark, is the white skinned,
S6: therefore are the oppressors of the Palestinians, who are dark skinned,
S6: although there really is no difference. And the result is
S6: that they say, okay, we have to oppress protest, that protest.
S6: That's intersectionality. Everything is the same in terms of protest,
S6: and they're all connected one to another. That's what intersectionality says.
S6: And now, of course, the false lies that you mentioned,
S6: the the falsehoods out there that Israel is committing genocide,
S6: people are going out. They're going out righteously. If we're
S6: going to protest for righteousness, we've got to stop a
S6: genocide that isn't even happening.
S1: Yeah. Let's first prove there's a genocide, and we're going
S1: to get to that in a minute. But let me
S1: go to what you said. I love your term. I
S1: wrote it down. I'm going to steal it. Just giving
S1: you fair notice. I love the Omni protest. It really is.
S1: It's a mulligan stew of all of these people bound together.
S1: And when you stop them and you would ask them individually,
S1: I'm not sure they could give an apologetic for why
S1: they're necessarily there. And that's sad. That's problematic.
S6: That's true.
S1: But let me talk about it is exactly part of
S1: the problem.
S6: When they know what they're protesting, Janet, they don't know
S6: what they're protesting. Exactly. A lot of surveys done of
S6: people who are on the college campuses, people saying what
S6: river and what see, what see, from the river to
S6: the sea are the Nile River, the Euphrates River. They
S6: didn't know they. So even those who protest a specific
S6: cause don't even know that cause.
S1: Well, can I linger there for a minute? And then
S1: I want to talk about what's happening in the United
S1: Nations next week. You know, what breaks my heart is
S1: that if you could just sit down graciously with these
S1: folks and say, let's just walk this through, first of all,
S1: Mark Twain, I say this often, but it's so true.
S1: Travel is the best classroom. Go to Israel and your
S1: eyes will be opened, and you'll never look at what
S1: the headlines say again. In the same way I'm sitting
S1: in the Knesset, I'm watching an Arab representative in the
S1: Knesset serving. There's no parallel in the Gaza or the
S1: PLO territories by any stretch of the imagination. But more importantly,
S1: when you realize that the PLO charter, which is this
S1: hate filled document, calls for the annihilation of the Jews,
S1: it Jews. It is, paradoxically, where the phrase from the
S1: river to the sea comes from. And so whether it's
S1: the Wye Plantation or whether it's Oslo, or whether it's
S1: a myriad of other photo ops that I have seen
S1: come and go a thousand times in the Rose garden
S1: where the president shakes head, you have an Israeli rep,
S1: you have a Palestinian rep, Yasser Arafat, many times being
S1: the center of those photographs agreements. Let's move forward. And
S1: one of the demands in every one of those was
S1: to take out the language that calls for the annihilation
S1: of the Jews. To this day, that language is still there.
S1: So how can you, on the one side of your mouth,
S1: protest what you believe is genocide and on the other hand,
S1: exactly articulate the genocide of the very people you're accusing
S1: of committing genocide. That's vacuous reasoning, it seems to me.
S6: That's the irony of this whole thing. Israel is so
S6: clearly not desiring a genocide of the Palestinian people, and
S6: at the same time, Hamas in its original charter is
S6: declaring that that's exactly what they want. After 1007, the
S6: attack on October 7th, which killed 12. They murdered 1200
S6: Jewish people, mostly civilians. They captured and and made hostage
S6: of 251 Israelis and and also people from other countries
S6: that were in Israel. They took these people and they said,
S6: if you are defeated or if if you can, will
S6: you do this again? I watched it on the news.
S6: The guy from the Hamas organization says we will do
S6: it a second time and a third time and a
S6: fourth time. We will never stop. And they are the
S6: ones committed to genocide. It is the it's the inversion
S6: of truth. In fact, that's what the whole term genocide is.
S6: It's an inversion of what is actually happening.
S1: That's so well said. And there's just something about having
S1: been the people who were the subject and the objects
S1: and the victims of a real genocide. I think you're
S1: going to be very, very careful when you make your
S1: decisions as a sovereign nation not to ever step into
S1: that territory, because you know what it means to lose
S1: 6 million plus of your own people, so it's ludicrous. Now,
S1: having said that, let me fast forward to New York.
S1: And right now, I wouldn't give you a nickel for
S1: the building that they're in. I think they're just taking
S1: up space. So the UN has completely lost its way.
S1: They're going to have a conference the 17th through the
S1: 20th next week in New York. It's co-chaired by Saudi
S1: Arabia and France. And the original aim is the conference
S1: was to obtain recognition of a Palestinian state from UN
S1: member states. But then on June 7th, the Guardian very
S1: liberal publication coming out of the UK, reported that the
S1: conference had weakened its ambition and would, quote instead hope
S1: to agree on steps toward recognition. Now, let me leave
S1: it there, because there's a lot in this will. At
S1: once the story is over. The protest this weekend fade.
S1: This will be one of the main drivers in the
S1: news next week. So I want you to be forearmed
S1: to know what they're going to talk about and separate
S1: again fact from fiction. Doctor Michael Riedel, our guest. I
S1: hope you listen to his radio program on Saturday Open
S1: Line with Doctor Michael Riedel. Fabulous. This is a man
S1: who will give crystal clear answers right from the scriptures. Fascinating.
S1: It's why so many people love the show. Let me
S1: take a break. We're going to pick it up at
S1: the UN conference right after this.
S5: For more than 30 years, Doctor Michael.
S1: Rudnick was program head of Jewish Studies, a very unique
S1: and important 103 year old legacy major at at Moody
S1: Bible Institute. I said w didn't I radio can't get
S1: out of my head. MBI Moody Bible Institute. So let
S1: me fast forward again back to what's going to happen
S1: at the UN, because I read one source. Here's what
S1: it said. It said the director of a UN affiliate
S1: advisory organization reveals the concluding document of the upcoming two
S1: state conference, which is exactly what they're calling it, is
S1: expected to include a commitment to, quote, an unconditional and
S1: irreversible path toward a Palestinian state. According to her, this
S1: is this. Uh, advisory person. Invitations were extended solely. I
S1: know how this works in Washington solely to entities already
S1: aligned with the predetermined outcome. While a state can only
S1: be established through a UN Security Council resolution, one that
S1: could not pass due to a US veto. Lord, may
S1: it always be so. There are still diplomatic implications. So
S1: let me just walk this through a little bit, because
S1: this is why I wouldn't give you two kopecks for
S1: the United Nations. So they were the they affirmed the
S1: existence of the the Jewish state in 1948. US was
S1: the first country after that to put their imprimatur of approval.
S1: Now they're going to turn around because of this huge
S1: Arab voting bloc, the inclusion of Russia and China in
S1: the Security Council. How's that for an oxymoron? And the
S1: fact that Saudi Arabia and France are going to be
S1: running this. How do you determine. How do you make
S1: a declaration of a state, Michael, when you can't even
S1: tell me what the boundaries physically are of that nation?
S6: That's actually one of the requirements for a state is
S6: to have boundaries, and people want to go back to
S6: the 1947 partition plan or to the 1949 armistice between
S6: Israel and those nations. Excuse me. Uh, anyway, the reason the, uh,
S6: there there was no there was no boundary set. The
S6: armistice called for a boundary to be determined between Syria,
S6: Israel and Egypt. But now they're not even part of
S6: the discussion. It's crazy. There's never been a partition or
S6: a boundary set. And that had to come with negotiations
S6: between Israel and the PLO. So that's that's what's so
S6: surprising about this, is that they are what happened to
S6: the Oslo Accords. That was what was called upon, that
S6: they have to actually come to an agreement together. And
S6: there's no boundaries. And I'll tell you what bothers me
S6: the most about this. It's rewarding Hamas for ten seven. Yes, yes,
S6: that's the only way I can describe it. Uh, have
S6: a terrorist attack, a massacre and a war that they
S6: start and then say, you know what? We're going to
S6: punish the person who was attacked, uh, or the nation
S6: that was attacked. That doesn't that doesn't make any sense.
S6: And and it rewards, uh, Hamas for what they have done.
S6: And it seems to me only just this past week.
S6: Think about how long it took. It took Mahmoud Abbas,
S6: the head of the Palestinian Authority, until this past week,
S6: to actually condemn the Hamas attack. And it was only
S6: because of this conference coming up that.
S1: He thought.
S6: Well, I better I better get on the other side
S6: of this. So, yeah, exactly. There's no need to reward them.
S6: And it just doesn't deal with with the the issue
S6: of Israeli security. If you just declare a state. I mean, really, uh,
S6: I actually was once at a forum between a professor
S6: from another school and me, and we were this is many,
S6: about ten, 15 years ago, I guess. We were talking
S6: about these issues. And when we talked about it, the
S6: conclusion of one pastor, most of the pastors really saw
S6: the need to stand with Israel. But one pastor said
S6: the this is his evenhanded conclusion. Are you ready? This
S6: is the even handed way of thinking it. Palestinians have
S6: a desperate need for freedom and independence, and Israel has
S6: a toxic need for security. That's the way he described it.
S6: I just couldn't believe it. Toxic. Uh, the idea of security.
S6: I mean, obviously, ten, seven shows the need for security.
S6: And what this conference will do is ignore the need
S6: for security.
S1: Well, and, Michael, this I'm sorry for the dear pastor
S1: who was ignorant, and I use that word judiciously but graciously,
S1: because all you have to do is study the history
S1: of Israel. The ink wasn't dried on the declaration of
S1: statehood for Israel, and she was under attack. And this
S1: is that's why it's said of Israel. It's the only
S1: nation on planet Earth that is built with the trowel,
S1: the shovel in one hand and a rifle in the other.
S1: She's not the tiniest bit interested of constantly having Nehemiah's
S1: on the wall, watching what's happening to try to protect her.
S1: She wants to just be able to govern and have
S1: an existence. And since its inception. And this is why
S1: I made the statement earlier, that this has to be
S1: spiritual because it doesn't make any sense. There's no other
S1: country on planet Earth that we deal with, like we
S1: deal with the nation of Israel. So that that was
S1: just I'm sorry, but it was ignorance, probably a lack
S1: of experience or travel or knowledge or study. Here's the
S1: other part of this. This and my heart breaks for
S1: the Palestinian people I have never seen such abject poverty
S1: is when I went into Gaza, I'll never forget. It's
S1: indelibly burned into my heart and my mind. This poor
S1: Palestinian woman living under a piece of cardboard pressed against
S1: a cedar block building, and that was her home. That
S1: was the only shelter she had. I think our friends
S1: need to understand there is no organized government. Fatah is
S1: connected at the hip to Hamas. It's a terrorist organization.
S1: They don't have free elections by any stretch of the imagination.
S1: And you and I, Michael, are signed up to all
S1: kinds of websites. Thank you, God, for the internet because
S1: it gives us the rest of the story. So I've
S1: been watching Palestinians get beat up for trying to get
S1: aid to their families. I've been watching Hamas steal the
S1: aid trucks that come in so the Palestinian people can't
S1: get it. You want more of this? This is what
S1: you'll get with a two state solution, which is ridiculous.
S1: So when we come back, let's go deeper into this
S1: idea of genocide. And again, it'd be very easy for
S1: people to say, and I ask you this question all
S1: the time, but I think it bears repeating, oh, there
S1: are giants in the land. We're just grasshoppers. Give it up.
S1: This is never, ever, ever going to be resolved. So
S1: why doesn't Israel just say, uncle and we can bring
S1: peace to the land? In fact, that raises an interesting question, Michael,
S1: and I'll ask it and get the answer. On the
S1: other side, if there were a two state solution, all
S1: the myriad of details yet to be worked out. But
S1: let's just say that standard is up there and we
S1: finally got it. Would that really protect the Palestinian people,
S1: and what would it do to the people of Israel
S1: back after this? Let me give a big shout out
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S1: partial partner today by calling 877 Janet 58 or go
S1: to in the market with Janet parshall.org. One of the
S1: fastest hours on radio was when I spent time with
S1: Doctor Michael Redlich. And you know what? I'm not the
S1: only person who thinks that. Just a great teacher. He
S1: is vice president, academic, dean, and professor of Jewish studies
S1: and Bible at Moody Bible Institute. He also hosts the
S1: wildly popular program Open Line with Doctor Michael Ridelink, which
S1: is nationally syndicated and airs on the weekend. Michael, literally,
S1: this was just posted like 20 minutes ago by Danny Danon,
S1: who's Israel's ambassador to the United Nations. And just to
S1: bring you news from New York, the UN General Assembly
S1: has just passed a one sided resolution calling for an
S1: immediate ceasefire in Gaza without any binding demand for the
S1: release of our hostages and without condemning Hamas terrorism. This
S1: resolution lends legitimacy to terror and ignores the massacre, rape
S1: and torture carried out by Hamas. It is a grave
S1: abandonment of the hostages and a reward for terrorism. We
S1: will continue to fight until every one of our hostages
S1: returns home from day one October 7th, 2023. Bibi Netanyahu
S1: said two things. Number one we eradicate totally Hamas. We
S1: don't cut the head off. We take the roots out
S1: as well. Number two, every single hostage has to be returned,
S1: dead or alive. And he's been resolute. He's never deviated
S1: from either one of those things. So to have this
S1: clarion call at the United Nations next week for this
S1: declaration of a two state solution is just it's wildly inappropriate,
S1: and you brilliantly identify that it is it's tacit approval
S1: to Hamas for what they've done. But I asked you before,
S1: would it give more security to the Palestinian people? Would
S1: it give security because you can't see what security for
S1: Israeli citizens, but not Palestinians. So would both equally get
S1: security if there was a two state solution and all
S1: the details yet to be worked out, which of course
S1: they can never be worked out. But would it be
S1: an improvement? And I don't think so. It's almost like
S1: an acquiescence. If we throw a bone into this situation,
S1: somehow it's going to placate for a while. But, you know,
S1: it's like that famous line of Churchill, you can't negotiate
S1: with a tiger when your head is in the tiger's mouth.
S1: When you have peace talks, the talks. The presupposition is
S1: both parties want peace. Yasser Arafat walked away multiple times
S1: from a proposal for a two state solution and rejected
S1: it every single time. They don't want peace. They want
S1: annihilation of the Jews.
S6: Mahmoud Abbas walked away from a peace proposal and never
S6: even gave a response with the previous prime minister. So, uh,
S6: it's not only Arafat, it's there's a fear that, uh,
S6: of groups like Hamas that they would murder just as
S6: Anwar Sadat was murdered by the Muslim Brotherhood, uh, when
S6: he made peace with Israel. So I think that there
S6: is something going on there with that. I do think
S6: that the greatest security for the Palestinians would be to
S6: get rid of Hamas. Yes. At least in Gaza, uh,
S6: a lot of people think that Israel is fighting in
S6: Gaza purely for the security of Israelis. They if they
S6: could defeat Hamas, who is it that embeds among civilians?
S6: Who is it that makes sure that as many civilians
S6: as possible should be killed? Uh, that's that's the problem.
S6: So for security for Palestinians, it will only come when
S6: Hamas is defeated. And I also think the PA has
S6: to be the Palestinian Authority would need to be dramatically,
S6: dramatically changed for them to have any security for Palestinians.
S6: My neighbor, Palestinian, said to me once he was a
S6: Christian Arab. He talked about how oppressed the Christian Arabs
S6: of Bethlehem were by the Palestinian Authority. I said, well,
S6: why is it that whenever I read the reports, people
S6: are blaming Israel and not the Palestinian Authority? And he
S6: leaned in, took me by the arm very close, and
S6: he says, oh, my brother, oh, my brother. If we
S6: said that, if we said it was the Palestinian Authority,
S6: they'd kill our family. And so particularly for Christian Palestinians,
S6: which is only about 5% of the Palestinian population, they
S6: would still find greater security with a different kind of
S6: leadership than what they have there.
S1: Exactly. And yet that leadership just cannot be toppled. And
S1: it's just amazing to me. So let me just go
S1: broader for a minute. If you really wanted a two
S1: state solution and you were being historically and geographically accurate,
S1: Jordan would be the second state. It's 85% Palestinian, 15%
S1: Hashemite minority. They don't want it. Egypt puts a fence
S1: up a wall of separation between Gaza. And they don't
S1: want the Palestinians in Egypt. So tell me again why
S1: Israel is the bad guy on this. When Jordan says,
S1: no way, and Egypt says, not under any circumstances. So
S1: if the neighbors don't want the Palestinians, then the problem
S1: is not it's the leadership in the PEO. It's the PA,
S1: it's it's I just don't understand why they can't topple,
S1: but they can't.
S6: So, you know, the British Mandate people have no historical record. However,
S6: I you know, I've done a little reading on this history.
S1: He says, tongue in cheek.
S6: When the when the British received the mandate to create
S6: a Jewish state in what was then called Palestine, which
S6: was a region in the Middle East. Uh, they they said, okay,
S6: you know, we're going to have trouble. So very early on,
S6: the Colonial Secretary said, we need to have a state
S6: for the Arabs as well. And so they took everything
S6: east of the Jordan River and declared it to be
S6: a new country called Transjordan, which is today Jordan. That
S6: was designed to be the Arab state of Palestine. And
S6: so I think there was a two state solution. And
S6: that was, by the way, Winston Churchill, who decided that
S6: that was Winston Churchill's decision about 105 years ago. Uh,
S6: and so it seems to me that there is a
S6: second state. And I think that that would be probably
S6: the best to take that. The West Bank enclave where
S6: there are west of the Jordan, where there are significant
S6: there's a significant Palestinian Arab population and link it together
S6: that at least have give them citizenship in the Jordanian state.
S6: So they would be a people with a state, they
S6: could vote in Jordan, and they could have an economic
S6: tie economic commitment to Jordan. That would be a way
S6: of working out. It would be creative, but it wouldn't
S6: be something that would be hurtful to Palestinians and it
S6: would give them independence. And I think that that would
S6: be the the best way of going. But but right now,
S6: that doesn't look like anyone's really thinking about that. Seriously.
S1: And I think one of the reasons that there's a
S1: failure to see serious thinking in this is because the
S1: mask is off. The unbridled hatred toward the Jewish people
S1: is the driver vis a vis the terrorist organization. You know,
S1: it's interesting because, again, when you go to the checkpoints,
S1: Palestinians can come in and go into Israel all the time.
S1: They go back and forth through checkpoints. They don't go
S1: through checkpoints because not everybody is happy to go in
S1: and do their shopping and get their business done in Israel.
S1: Some of them come with munitions strapped on them, you know.
S1: In fact, the poor mothers of Gaza are told that
S1: their son is a hero. If he blows himself up
S1: and then she's given a bag of candy and spreads
S1: it around to the neighborhood when the son is committed
S1: suicide vis a vis an explosive vest. It's it's a
S1: demonic enslavement of people through an evil ideology. So unless
S1: they topple this regime, unless Hamas is replaced with some
S1: sort of self-governance, some robust conversations about really animus aside.
S1: But the animus is so palpable. And that takes me
S1: to the genocide question. We hear this all the time
S1: from people who really are just proving that they're ignorant.
S1: You know, better to keep your mouth closed than to
S1: open it and prove yourself a fool. There is no
S1: evidence whatsoever to genocide, but we hear this all the time.
S1: What do we say when people say to us, well,
S1: don't you know that Israel is committing genocide against the
S1: Palestinian people.
S6: Well, I think that first of all, I just say
S6: there is no genocide. And I think I shared with
S6: you an email I got, I received. Yes. Open line. Uh, saying,
S6: how can you say that there are 54,000 dead. Now,
S6: I think that's so interesting. People receive news media, news
S6: agencies repeat that number 54,000 dead. And they do it consistently.
S6: But they don't distinguish. First of all, they don't say
S6: this is the numbers from the Gaza Health Ministry, which
S6: is controlled by Hamas. And we can't trust a word
S6: they say. Also, if we were to accept the count
S6: of 54,000, let's say it's right, which I don't really
S6: believe it is. Here's what we know about that count
S6: 24,000 at least, were Hamas combatants. They were actually fighting.
S6: So that reduces the number dramatically from 54,000 to 30,000.
S6: Just recently it came out that about 8000 people died
S6: of natural causes, nothing related to the war, and they
S6: were added to that 54,000 figure. So that reduces the
S6: number to 22,000. And then when you consider that Hamas
S6: started the war, Hamas embeds among civilian population. They built
S6: tunnels under hospitals in under mosques, under schools. They consider
S6: every civilian casualty a victory. They think we win the
S6: war of media, the public relations war for every civilian
S6: that's killed. And then you balance that on the other
S6: side with Israel trying to create safety zones with Israel
S6: dropping leaflets, Israel letting people know by phone, calling people
S6: and saying, this building is going to be destroyed because
S6: it's being used by Hamas. You have to get everyone out.
S6: They do this and they've given up the strategic advantage
S6: to do that in war. Usually don't tell people where
S6: you're coming. You know where you're going to attack us.
S6: But they do that to preserve the lives of civilians.
S6: The ratio of civilian combatants civilian to combatant deaths is
S6: about 1 to 1 in this war among Palestinians, and
S6: that sounds terrible. That 50%, or just around 1 to
S6: 1 are civilian. But if you compare that, for example,
S6: to the United States, when we fought in Iraq or
S6: against al Qaeda, we had about a 1 to 6
S6: civilian for to combat six civilians to every one combatant.
S6: John Spencer, who teaches urban warfare at the kind of
S6: a prestigious school, West Point. Yes.
S1: Exactly.
S6: John Spencer says that there has never been a military
S6: with as low a combatant to civilian, civilian to combatant
S6: ratio as Israel has in this war. It's just remarkable.
S6: And so what is the point of this? I call
S6: it Holocaust inversion. Version. What they are doing is they're
S6: taking the people who are subject to genocide and accusing
S6: them because of anti-Semitic reasons, of committing a holocaust of
S6: their own, committing genocide. That's all it is. It's just
S6: hatred of the Jewish people.
S1: And I'm not being cavalier with the term. I think
S1: I'm being theologically spot on. That is demonic. On no questions. Michael,
S1: I was just thinking when you were talking how right
S1: John Adams was when he said, facts are stubborn things.
S1: The bias leaning talking heads don't want us to know
S1: the information you just shared. Be a good Berean. Check
S1: your sources. Test all things back after this. How many
S1: times have this program do we say? Always keep your
S1: eye on the nation of Israel. There isn't a day
S1: that goes by that that small nation about the size
S1: of new Jersey doesn't make headlines globally. And please be
S1: in prayer for what's going to happen at the United
S1: Nations next week. Again, it's going to be fomented by
S1: ignorance and blind hatred of the Jewish people. That's all
S1: that it is. And again, if you understand why the
S1: word holds the Jewish people in such high esteem, none
S1: of this can come as a surprise. And then pray
S1: for the Palestinians, the innocent people, by the way, who
S1: are being used as chess pawns in this demonic warfare.
S1: Michael said something. I want to pull out an underscore
S1: because it's true. When you're a terrorist organization, you don't
S1: care about the people you have power over, even though
S1: it's self granted self acquired power. You're not asking. You
S1: didn't get this as a public servant. You became in
S1: as a dictator, as an overlord for people. So you
S1: put your own people in harm's way. Why would you
S1: purposely have them go after a hospital where you know
S1: innocent lives are going to be hit because you've got
S1: munitions buried under the hospital? Why do you run tower
S1: tunnels rather under the home of a Palestinian widow, so
S1: that the military and Hamas can work its way underground
S1: without you knowing about it. So these are things that
S1: you don't have a point of reference for. So when
S1: you hear these stories, it's easy for this to be
S1: such an out of control bias. So the only way
S1: you're going to get clarity on this situation is through
S1: the lens of Scripture. Just keep reading and reading and
S1: reading how precious the Jewish people are to God, and
S1: that he is not willing that any should perish, and
S1: that there is a kind of spiritual blindness that's going
S1: on in that part of the world. So let me
S1: bring this closer to home, because, Michael, I have to
S1: tell you, I was I was stunned when the two
S1: young people were killed outside of the museum in Washington, D.C.,
S1: one of them a messianic believer, by the way, and
S1: we know that he had just purchased an engagement ring.
S1: He was going back to Israel the following week. He
S1: was going to propose to his girlfriend, who also lost
S1: her life. And that didn't happen. Somehow the issue of
S1: antisemitism is not just in the streets of Paris. And
S1: it's not just protests going on globally. It's now in
S1: our backyard. And when you start looking at some of
S1: the other horrific things that are happening, this boulder attack
S1: that took place as well. It isn't an over there problem,
S1: it's here problem. And so given our understanding of the
S1: basic sin nature of man, as is told to us
S1: in the scriptures, you wonder if you can't exercise self control.
S1: If you even if you have strong feelings against a
S1: particular people group for whatever reasons, but you don't have
S1: the control to not do something about it, then what happens?
S1: And what I'm witnessing now? This reminds me of Germany
S1: in the 1930s. You're way beyond Uden, outside the storefront.
S1: You're now shooting people when they come out of museums
S1: in the nation's capital. How does this get stopped other
S1: than the intervening power of the Lord?
S6: Well, I think that one of the things that we
S6: need to do is have Gentile Christians take a stand.
S6: I think that this is something that's so important that
S6: the churches in every community take a stand and say,
S6: we will not tolerate. We will stand with the Jewish community.
S6: We're not going to just stand next to you. We'll
S6: stand in front of you. Uh, I, I think that
S6: that's imperative. And I don't hear it coming from many churches.
S6: There's a few that have taken a stand like that,
S6: but it's imperative to do that. They they have to
S6: take a stand. And here's the issue. I find a
S6: lot of people are saying, well, what Israel is doing
S6: with Gaza is somehow causing the anti-Semitism here. I don't
S6: believe that. I think the objection to Israel and what
S6: Israel is doing that that failure to recognize Israel being
S6: attacked and needing to do this, no one wants to
S6: be at war this long. No one in Israel would
S6: like to be at war, but they have to do
S6: this for their own protection. The government is given the
S6: power of the sword to protect the innocent, to punish
S6: the wicked, that they don't want to do this. That's
S6: Romans 13 four, by the way. Uh, but what drives
S6: the opposition to Israel in the first place is anti-Semitism.
S6: We often talk about double standards when it comes to Israel.
S6: I don't even think there's double standards. I think there's
S6: the Israel standard. Every nation in the world would be
S6: understood for going to war like this. But the anti
S6: Semitism against Israel, because it's the Jewish state, that's what
S6: drives the opposition and that's why it spreads here. Uh,
S6: in Washington DC, in Saint Louis, in Pittsburgh, in uh, Boulder, Colorado.
S6: Why is it doing it? Because of that same anti-Semitism.
S6: It's not what Israel does that causes it. It's the
S6: hatred for Israel that drives it. It's the same thing. Yeah.
S6: In other words, are people opposed to Israel because of anti-Semitism,
S6: or is anti-Semitism increasing because of Israel? No, it's driven
S6: because of anti-Semitism. That's what opposes Israel. That's what's happening
S6: here in the States.
S1: Exactly, exactly. So I give you Columbia University. So you've
S1: got a bunch of Jewish students on campus that suddenly
S1: become the enemy. They can't wear their Star of David.
S1: They can't wear their kippah. They can't make any outside
S1: acknowledgment of who they are because now they fear for
S1: their own safety. Wait a minute. They were taking econ
S1: class together four weeks ago. Why suddenly is the one
S1: an enemy? Where does that help me understand the human condition?
S1: Where does that come from? Where before were students together
S1: studying for our midterm? And now all of a sudden,
S1: you're the enemy. And I'm not going to allow you
S1: to go to class.
S6: I think, first of all, opposition to the God of Israel,
S6: hatred of the God of Israel. Psalm 83 says, only
S6: when people hate the God of Israel do they hate
S6: the people of Israel. That it's really an expression of
S6: the hatred of God. That's clearly what Psalm 83 says.
S6: So I think we have to be alert to that.
S6: And then when I look at revelation 12 and the attack,
S6: the symbolic woman that represents Israel and the attack against
S6: her is by Satan, the devil, the serpent of old,
S6: it's that's who is identifying as the one that attacks Israel.
S6: I think you're right when you said this is satanic,
S6: I think people have a delusion that the enemy gives them,
S6: that makes them think that Israel, instead of being the victim,
S6: is the oppressor. And I think it's a spiritual warfare,
S6: and it's why I think that believers need to be
S6: the most outspoken in standing with Israel against this demonic
S6: delusion that people have fallen prey to.
S1: You just anticipated my question, and so I want to
S1: extrapolate the two things you said out that we absolutely
S1: can do. And by the way, I'm going to listen
S1: to the minority spy report, okay. I'm going to listen
S1: to Caleb and Joshua. This is a winnable battle because
S1: greater is he that is in us than he that's
S1: in the world. If this is, and I do believe
S1: it is spiritual warfare, then you have to understand that
S1: the prince of this world absolutely wants to annihilate the
S1: Jewish people, literally and figuratively, because in so doing, he
S1: thinks he eradicates a Jewish Messiah. So, number one, Michael
S1: challenged every one of us as Gentile Christians to speak
S1: up for the nation of Israel. You do your homework,
S1: you stay grounded in the word and you speak up.
S1: Do not let an anti-Semitic statement slip by and think
S1: that somehow that person's given grace. I would gently, lovingly,
S1: always through grace narrative, but nonetheless, it has to be
S1: nipped in the bud. And you can do that when
S1: you're standing in the authority of God's Word in a
S1: winsome way. Number two, we're going to pray without ceasing.
S1: And I think we need to do that on a
S1: regular basis. Pastors, a challenge to you. What are you
S1: teaching on the nation of Israel? From the pulpit. You're
S1: the shepherd. Help the sheep understand this. Take a bold
S1: stand in support of the nation of Israel, built on
S1: what biblical truth is, not because it's a political statement. Michael.
S1: Anything else we should add to that list besides getting
S1: studied up? Speak up and pray up.
S6: I always think that not only pray for the peace
S6: of Jerusalem, I'm praying that peace will come through surrender
S6: of Hamas, but also pray for the protection of Israel.
S6: Right now, it's a very dangerous time and they're preparing
S6: for an onslaught from Iran. So keep praying.
S1: Amen. Thanks, friends. We'll see you next time.