1 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:14,240 S1: Despite Israel's historic close ties with America, understanding US-Israel relations 2 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,760 S1: can be tricky. So what are the biggest influences, the 3 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,600 S1: loudest voices that are shaping this dialogue? What can American 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,680 S1: believers do to help the relationship? Just ahead, we'll bring 5 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,120 S1: clarity to that conversation. One you'll find intriguing, I promise. Hey, 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,200 S1: welcome to the land and the book. I'm John Gager. 7 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,440 S1: Our host is a lifelong student of the Middle East, 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,040 S1: just back from a visit there, and we're glad to 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:38,760 S1: be visiting again today. Charlie, with you. 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,440 S2: Hey, John, it's great being with you again. Thanks. 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:44,520 S1: You and I live in uncertain days, and in times 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,400 S1: like these, many people ask the big question Where is God? 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,000 S1: There are times when we as believers might start to 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,760 S1: wonder where God is and what he's doing. Right? 15 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,680 S2: Absolutely. And that's why our friends at Life in Messiah 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,430 S2: have recently published a book addressing this issue. that's titled 17 00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:04,750 S2: Where is God in Fearful Times? Encouragement from Exodus. The 18 00:01:04,750 --> 00:01:07,429 S2: book is a study on Israel's ordeal in Egypt, and 19 00:01:07,430 --> 00:01:10,990 S2: what we can learn from this to apply to our circumstances. 20 00:01:11,190 --> 00:01:13,509 S2: The lessons learned by the Jewish people in Egypt are 21 00:01:13,510 --> 00:01:17,630 S2: extremely relevant today. God hears your cry. He cares for 22 00:01:17,630 --> 00:01:20,550 S2: you and is working for your good and his glory. 23 00:01:20,950 --> 00:01:23,670 S2: Life in Messiah is now making this book available for 24 00:01:23,670 --> 00:01:26,509 S2: a limited time to the land and the book listeners 25 00:01:26,510 --> 00:01:28,830 S2: with a special deal to find out how you can 26 00:01:28,830 --> 00:01:32,069 S2: get a copy of this encouraging book for yourself, or 27 00:01:32,110 --> 00:01:34,310 S2: as a gift to share with others who are struggling. 28 00:01:34,510 --> 00:01:38,390 S2: Visit Life in Messiah org and click on the radio icon. 29 00:01:38,470 --> 00:01:40,270 S2: That's life in Messiah. 30 00:01:41,750 --> 00:01:45,270 S1: Thank you Charlie. Now a look at current events. All stories, 31 00:01:45,270 --> 00:01:48,150 S1: all in the Middle East. All this week, the long 32 00:01:48,190 --> 00:01:51,910 S1: running criminal trial of Prime Minister Netanyahu took an unexpected 33 00:01:51,950 --> 00:01:55,190 S1: turn last Sunday when he submitted a request for a 34 00:01:55,190 --> 00:01:59,340 S1: pardon to President Herzog. Why would Netanyahu ask for a 35 00:01:59,340 --> 00:02:02,300 S1: pardon before the trial is over? And what are the 36 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:04,900 S1: details behind this request that you and I should know? 37 00:02:05,340 --> 00:02:09,780 S2: Yeah. Prime Minister Netanyahu was indicted back in 2019, and 38 00:02:09,780 --> 00:02:12,899 S2: the trial has been ongoing since 2020. And it's not 39 00:02:12,900 --> 00:02:16,940 S2: expected to wrap up until 2027. He's been charged with 40 00:02:16,940 --> 00:02:19,619 S2: one count of bribery and three counts of fraud and 41 00:02:19,620 --> 00:02:23,220 S2: breach of trust. In his request for a pardon. Netanyahu 42 00:02:23,220 --> 00:02:25,700 S2: does not admit any guilt for the offenses with which 43 00:02:25,700 --> 00:02:29,460 S2: he's charged. Instead, he argues that a pardon will serve 44 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:33,019 S2: Israel's national interests by allowing him to focus fully on 45 00:02:33,020 --> 00:02:37,500 S2: the country's security challenges and internal unity, while the granting 46 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:40,500 S2: of a pardon before a conviction or admission of guilt 47 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:43,739 S2: is extremely rare. It has been done and upheld by 48 00:02:43,740 --> 00:02:47,859 S2: the courts. The response to the request has been dramatic. 49 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:51,299 S2: Those who support Netanyahu are in favor of the request, 50 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:53,620 S2: and believe it will put an end to legal maneuvering 51 00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:56,100 S2: by his opponents, who are trying to force him from 52 00:02:56,100 --> 00:02:59,889 S2: office in spite of being legally elected. They also believe 53 00:02:59,889 --> 00:03:03,049 S2: it will end a political distraction that's harming Israel at 54 00:03:03,050 --> 00:03:06,650 S2: a time when the country has faced unprecedented attacks from 55 00:03:06,650 --> 00:03:10,730 S2: all sides. Those who oppose Netanyahu are against the pardon. 56 00:03:10,970 --> 00:03:14,010 S2: They were convinced of his guilt even before the trial started, 57 00:03:14,010 --> 00:03:16,810 S2: and they won't be satisfied until he's removed from office, 58 00:03:16,810 --> 00:03:20,410 S2: barred from ever running again, and perhaps even sentenced to prison. 59 00:03:20,770 --> 00:03:24,810 S2: President Herzog's office has acknowledged receiving the request. He said 60 00:03:24,810 --> 00:03:28,010 S2: he will not comment until the process for evaluating the 61 00:03:28,010 --> 00:03:32,329 S2: request is complete, which could take several weeks or even months. Now, 62 00:03:32,330 --> 00:03:35,370 S2: that hasn't stopped pundits on all sides from predicting why 63 00:03:35,410 --> 00:03:38,810 S2: Netanyahu requested a pardon and what the outcome will be. 64 00:03:38,930 --> 00:03:42,530 S2: Some have suggested Netanyahu is offering to exchange a pardon 65 00:03:42,530 --> 00:03:46,810 S2: for less pressure on the legal establishment or for early elections. 66 00:03:47,130 --> 00:03:50,010 S2: Others have said Herzog will grant the pardon to save 67 00:03:50,010 --> 00:03:53,730 S2: the country from further political disintegration, or to accede to 68 00:03:53,770 --> 00:03:57,520 S2: President Trump's demands. Hands. Still others believe Herzog will grant 69 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,880 S2: the pardon, but demand that Netanyahu admit guilt and step 70 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,320 S2: away from politics, or that he'll reject the pardon at 71 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,080 S2: least until after the trial is over, to maintain the 72 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,880 S2: rule of law. Now, the reality right now is that 73 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,160 S2: no one knows what President Herzog will do. So we'll 74 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,200 S2: continue to follow this process as it unfolds. 75 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,760 S1: Well, Charlie, what has their relationship been like in the 76 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,040 S1: past that might give some indicator of of what's to come? 77 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,320 S2: Uh, they're from opposite sides politically, but they've had a 78 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:30,240 S2: at least a cordial relationship. Not friendly necessarily, but certainly 79 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,560 S2: been professional. So in that case, Herzog is playing it 80 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:36,160 S2: close to the vest. And, uh, that's what I would 81 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,560 S2: expect him to do. So in reality, no matter what 82 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,800 S2: anybody is predicting, nobody really knows. 83 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,080 S1: You're listening to The Land and the book from Moody 84 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:47,800 S1: Radio doctor Charlie Dyer, our host. The proposed ultra-Orthodox military 85 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:51,880 S1: draft bill was presented last week, and it's also generating 86 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,940 S1: quite a bit of controversy. I understand what's included in 87 00:04:54,940 --> 00:04:58,180 S1: the bill and could it potentially bring down the government? 88 00:04:58,580 --> 00:05:00,900 S2: Yeah. Well, let me answer that second question first. The 89 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:03,900 S2: bill could potentially bring down the government, though right now 90 00:05:03,900 --> 00:05:08,620 S2: it's hard to separate true opposition from Pre-negotiation bluster and 91 00:05:08,620 --> 00:05:11,820 S2: and positioning. The bill is described by those who drafted 92 00:05:11,820 --> 00:05:14,860 S2: it as a balanced response that respects the value of 93 00:05:14,860 --> 00:05:17,740 S2: Torah study, while also addressing the demands of the High 94 00:05:17,779 --> 00:05:22,420 S2: Court for equality in military service. However, according to many critics, 95 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:25,500 S2: the bill seems to fall short in several key areas. 96 00:05:25,940 --> 00:05:28,580 S2: It sets goals for the first year draft, but it 97 00:05:28,620 --> 00:05:31,260 S2: defines the first year as beginning the month the bill 98 00:05:31,260 --> 00:05:35,940 S2: passes and extending through June 2027. That's a full 18 months. 99 00:05:36,220 --> 00:05:39,380 S2: So all economic and institutional sanctions that have already been 100 00:05:39,380 --> 00:05:43,300 S2: imposed would be lifted and won't be reviewed again until then, 101 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:47,020 S2: granting an immediate pardon to all draft evaders. The bill 102 00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:51,539 S2: also broadens what's included under national service to include non-military 103 00:05:51,540 --> 00:05:55,650 S2: service and doesn't set specific quotas for combat soldiers, which 104 00:05:55,650 --> 00:05:58,690 S2: is the real need. And it provides a broad definition 105 00:05:58,690 --> 00:06:02,010 S2: of who counts as ultra-Orthodox. Anyone who studied in a 106 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:05,050 S2: yeshiva would count, even if they later left that community. 107 00:06:05,290 --> 00:06:08,450 S2: This enlarges the pool of enlistment targets, making the goals 108 00:06:08,450 --> 00:06:12,289 S2: easier to meet by including those who are no longer ultra-Orthodox. 109 00:06:12,650 --> 00:06:15,370 S2: Those in the opposition parties have already come out against 110 00:06:15,370 --> 00:06:19,410 S2: the law, calling it an anti-Zionist draft evasion law that 111 00:06:19,410 --> 00:06:22,210 S2: deepens the burden on those who are serving in the military. 112 00:06:22,650 --> 00:06:25,890 S2: While the ultra-Orthodox parties are now returning at least to 113 00:06:25,930 --> 00:06:29,169 S2: vote with the coalition. Other members of the coalition, including 114 00:06:29,170 --> 00:06:33,090 S2: some in Netanyahu's Likud party, have expressed opposition to the 115 00:06:33,089 --> 00:06:35,610 S2: law as it's been proposed, and this could set the 116 00:06:35,610 --> 00:06:38,250 S2: stage for a no confidence vote that would bring down 117 00:06:38,250 --> 00:06:41,729 S2: the coalition and set the stage for early elections. This 118 00:06:41,730 --> 00:06:43,409 S2: really is a mess right now. 119 00:06:43,450 --> 00:06:46,130 S1: Boy it is. And the drama shows no signs of 120 00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:51,010 S1: letting up. Archaeologists announced the discovery of 65 tombs at 121 00:06:51,010 --> 00:06:54,560 S1: the site of ancient Colossae in western Turkey, with some 122 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,120 S1: writers claiming the find proves four chapters of the Bible. 123 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,279 S1: Are the tombs really significant biblically, or is this just 124 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:02,680 S1: a bit of journalistic hype? 125 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,520 S2: Yeah, some of the reports definitely have overhyped this discovery. 126 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,360 S2: The claim that the find proves four chapters of the 127 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,240 S2: Bible is really just saying the book of Colossians must 128 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,400 S2: be true, because ancient graves were discovered there. And that 129 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,400 S2: really makes no sense because it makes no connection at all. 130 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,160 S2: We know the book of Colossians is true because it 131 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,760 S2: was written by the Apostle Paul to the actual town 132 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,080 S2: of Colossae, which did exist. The tombs are said to 133 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,560 S2: be 2200 years old, which places them before the time 134 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,800 S2: of the New Testament and the Apostle Paul. The discovery 135 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,760 S2: of personal objects in the graves does suggest the people 136 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,560 S2: of Colossae did have some sort of belief in life 137 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,680 S2: after death, though this isn't surprising since many pagan cultures 138 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,800 S2: believed in an afterlife. Some of these objects included lamps 139 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,640 S2: thought to help illuminate the journey into the afterlife, as 140 00:07:50,750 --> 00:07:55,150 S2: well as amulets, charms and stones thought to possess healing qualities. 141 00:07:55,430 --> 00:07:59,430 S2: Although Colossae had been eclipsed by Laodicea and Hierapolis, by 142 00:07:59,430 --> 00:08:01,830 S2: the time of the New Testament, the city was still 143 00:08:01,830 --> 00:08:05,630 S2: well known for its production of wool, which they dyed purple. 144 00:08:05,670 --> 00:08:08,750 S2: Now the objects found in the graves do help illustrate 145 00:08:08,750 --> 00:08:12,710 S2: the problem of religious syncretism, which Paul addresses in his 146 00:08:12,710 --> 00:08:16,070 S2: letter to that church. They were mixing biblical truth with 147 00:08:16,070 --> 00:08:19,550 S2: the worship of angels and an early form of Gnosticism 148 00:08:19,550 --> 00:08:23,430 S2: that promoted secret knowledge. But apart from giving us additional 149 00:08:23,430 --> 00:08:26,270 S2: insight into the history of the town, the tombs aren't 150 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:29,310 S2: really that significant to the book of Colossians. 151 00:08:29,630 --> 00:08:31,910 S1: This is the land and the book from Moody Radio. 152 00:08:31,910 --> 00:08:35,510 S1: Thanks for your company. A University of Haifa researcher has 153 00:08:35,510 --> 00:08:39,870 S1: developed a blood test that is 95% accurate in spotting 154 00:08:39,870 --> 00:08:43,870 S1: suicide risk in bipolar patients. What are the details behind 155 00:08:43,870 --> 00:08:46,630 S1: this latest discovery out of Amazing Israel? 156 00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:49,740 S2: Yeah, I found this fascinating, though it's not that you 157 00:08:49,740 --> 00:08:51,940 S2: can take a blood test and know someone's immediately going 158 00:08:51,940 --> 00:08:56,020 S2: to commit suicide. The research team developed an artificial intelligence 159 00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:59,900 S2: algorithm based on genetic changes in the white blood cells 160 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:04,620 S2: of patients with bipolar disorders. The study examined blood samples 161 00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:08,339 S2: of individuals with that disorder. Some committed suicide, while others 162 00:09:08,340 --> 00:09:11,500 S2: did not, and the researchers looked to see which genes 163 00:09:11,500 --> 00:09:15,340 S2: were expressed differently between those two groups. They discovered that 164 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:19,699 S2: brain related genetic changes could be detected in white blood cells. 165 00:09:19,820 --> 00:09:23,580 S2: The blood test achieved more than 95% accuracy. And that's 166 00:09:23,580 --> 00:09:27,100 S2: significant because people with bipolar disorder are at a far 167 00:09:27,100 --> 00:09:31,300 S2: greater risk of suicide than the general population. The blood 168 00:09:31,340 --> 00:09:35,780 S2: test could enable caregivers to monitor bipolar patients more closely 169 00:09:35,780 --> 00:09:40,100 S2: to provide earlier intervention. Should the blood test show changes, 170 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:43,780 S2: medication could be adjusted and additional support services could be 171 00:09:43,780 --> 00:09:46,940 S2: added to help the patient make it through that period. 172 00:09:47,340 --> 00:09:48,970 S2: I just look at that, John, and say, a blood 173 00:09:49,010 --> 00:09:52,530 S2: test that can identify at risk individuals to help prevent 174 00:09:52,530 --> 00:09:55,290 S2: suicide and save lives. You know, that's what we've come 175 00:09:55,290 --> 00:09:57,570 S2: to expect from amazing Israel. 176 00:09:57,730 --> 00:10:01,490 S1: Thank you. Charlie. Coming up, despite Israel's historic close ties 177 00:10:01,490 --> 00:10:06,450 S1: with America, understanding US-Israel relations can be tricky. So what 178 00:10:06,450 --> 00:10:10,050 S1: are the biggest influences, the loudest voices who are truly 179 00:10:10,050 --> 00:10:13,890 S1: shaping this conversation? And more importantly, what could American believers 180 00:10:13,890 --> 00:10:16,650 S1: do to help that relationship? We'll talk about that and 181 00:10:16,650 --> 00:10:19,210 S1: a whole lot more. Charlie, a quick follow up on 182 00:10:19,210 --> 00:10:21,490 S1: the Hamas conflict. What do we need to know there? 183 00:10:21,490 --> 00:10:22,370 S1: Anything going on? 184 00:10:22,890 --> 00:10:25,490 S2: Well, what I would say is it's still ongoing. Hamas 185 00:10:25,530 --> 00:10:29,090 S2: is still trying to stretch things out, to keep from 186 00:10:29,090 --> 00:10:33,010 S2: disarming and to have their individuals cross the yellow line. 187 00:10:33,010 --> 00:10:36,250 S2: They're doing everything they can to push Israel to the edges. 188 00:10:36,250 --> 00:10:38,730 S2: And the US is, I think, trying to pressure Israel 189 00:10:38,730 --> 00:10:41,610 S2: not to respond. And that's creating quite a problem. 190 00:10:41,650 --> 00:10:44,410 S1: Yeah. And we'll follow that story as we do all 191 00:10:44,450 --> 00:10:47,720 S1: the issues faced in the Middle East on future programs. Hey, 192 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:51,600 S1: our website is the land and the book. Love to 193 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,240 S1: have you visit there. That's the land and the book. 194 00:10:55,200 --> 00:11:13,440 S1: Understanding us Israel relations. Next. Welcome back to the land 195 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,079 S1: and the book. Two quotes from two presidents about one 196 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,440 S1: nation Israel, said John Kennedy. Israel was not created in 197 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:25,480 S1: order to disappear. Israel will endure and flourish. It is 198 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,280 S1: the child of hope and home of the brave. It 199 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:32,160 S1: can neither be broken by adversity nor demoralized by success, 200 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,440 S1: said President Ronald Reagan. Israel exists. It has a right 201 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,600 S1: to exist in peace behind secure and defensible borders, and 202 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,679 S1: it has a right to demand of its neighbors that 203 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,780 S1: they recognize those facts. Well, Despite its historic close ties 204 00:11:46,780 --> 00:11:52,060 S1: with America, understanding US-Israel relations can be tricky. We're about 205 00:11:52,059 --> 00:11:54,819 S1: to bring some clarity. This is the land in the book. Again, 206 00:11:54,820 --> 00:11:57,380 S1: I'm John Gager, thanking you for sticking with us today. 207 00:11:57,580 --> 00:12:00,140 S1: I want you to meet our guest, Doctor Kobi Barda. 208 00:12:00,140 --> 00:12:03,460 S1: He was born and raised in Holon, Israel, just south 209 00:12:03,460 --> 00:12:07,260 S1: of Tel Aviv, and is an expert on US-Israel relations 210 00:12:07,260 --> 00:12:10,420 S1: and a regular contributor to Israeli television. He has served 211 00:12:10,420 --> 00:12:14,900 S1: as a political campaign manager and advisor to Israeli government ministers, 212 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:18,780 S1: Israeli parliament members and mayors. His experience as a media 213 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:22,940 S1: consultant and communications expert spans over 20 years, and I 214 00:12:22,940 --> 00:12:26,140 S1: think he's only 25 to start with. Mister Barta holds 215 00:12:26,140 --> 00:12:29,860 S1: a master's degree from Haifa University, where his dissertation focused 216 00:12:29,860 --> 00:12:33,380 S1: on the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, and he's currently 217 00:12:33,380 --> 00:12:36,740 S1: a PhD candidate at Haifa University, which makes him a 218 00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:40,900 S1: pretty smart guy. Doctor Kobi is married to Michal and 219 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:44,020 S1: the father of Roni, Jonathan and Gili. We are so 220 00:12:44,090 --> 00:12:46,570 S1: grateful that you've carved out time from your very busy 221 00:12:46,570 --> 00:12:49,810 S1: traveling schedule here in the US to stop into our studio. 222 00:12:49,809 --> 00:12:51,810 S1: Welcome to the land and the book, Doctor Barta. 223 00:12:51,850 --> 00:12:55,770 S3: Thank you. Just a little clarification. The PhD candidate stopped 224 00:12:55,770 --> 00:12:58,730 S3: when I got my dissertation approved. That was two years ago, 225 00:12:58,730 --> 00:12:59,569 S3: but that's okay. 226 00:12:59,610 --> 00:13:00,569 S1: All right. So you're in. 227 00:13:00,610 --> 00:13:03,689 S3: I'm in, I'm in. I'm actually on the postdoc. Oh. 228 00:13:03,690 --> 00:13:04,290 S3: That's okay. 229 00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:08,730 S1: Well, understanding US-Israel relations, that's a mighty big topic to 230 00:13:08,770 --> 00:13:11,050 S1: try and tackle. Let's give it our best shot, though, 231 00:13:11,090 --> 00:13:14,650 S1: starting with your assessment of where we're at right now. 232 00:13:14,690 --> 00:13:15,290 S1: Right now. 233 00:13:15,809 --> 00:13:19,530 S3: So basically, there's a grassroots movement in America that comes 234 00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:23,010 S3: from all across the avenues that supporting Israel. It does 235 00:13:23,050 --> 00:13:27,530 S3: go back to the foundation of Israel, where Truman faced 236 00:13:27,530 --> 00:13:32,090 S3: the first ever mobilizing communities, trying to push the US 237 00:13:32,130 --> 00:13:37,370 S3: into approve Israel recognition in the UN, which is a 238 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:40,530 S3: long story, but the very top of the end of 239 00:13:40,530 --> 00:13:43,440 S3: it is that he decided that he's going to go 240 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:49,120 S3: against the will of his Secretary of State, Marshall, and 241 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,720 S3: decided to be the first nation ever to recognize Israel. 242 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,280 S3: A few minutes right after the declaration of, uh, Prime 243 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,800 S3: Minister First Prime Minister Ben Gurion. So we go back 244 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:04,080 S3: to the very early minutes of the creation of Israel, 245 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,400 S3: the ties between the US and Israel. And there is, 246 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,360 S3: I think, no more important relations between Israel and any 247 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,640 S3: country than the US. I mean, that's the partnership, that's 248 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,440 S3: the bundle, that's the whatever you want to call it, 249 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:25,080 S3: family issue. And that is basically where we where until 250 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,760 S3: the last few years now, the last few years, mainly 251 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,400 S3: in the rays of the social media, we do get 252 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:36,600 S3: to see influence the red green alliance, the red stands 253 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:41,000 S3: for TikTok and China and the green stands for Qatar. 254 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,190 S3: And they've been mobilizing a lot of money and a 255 00:14:44,190 --> 00:14:48,670 S3: lot of cognitive and media wars. And that is how 256 00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:53,950 S3: kids in school are being pushed to a point where 257 00:14:53,950 --> 00:14:57,390 S3: they think that Israel is the demon, something that is 258 00:14:57,430 --> 00:15:01,070 S3: sometimes hard to believe, but they're succeeding. And there is 259 00:15:01,070 --> 00:15:02,550 S3: a lot of work that we all need to do. 260 00:15:03,270 --> 00:15:06,270 S1: Apart from the social media side of things. Any other 261 00:15:06,270 --> 00:15:09,990 S1: troubling spots in the Israel US relationship? 262 00:15:10,030 --> 00:15:12,790 S3: Of course, as I said, as I mentioned, Qatar, the 263 00:15:12,790 --> 00:15:16,150 S3: Muslim Brotherhood, I encourage people who want to go and 264 00:15:16,150 --> 00:15:20,630 S3: read about the 2007 sentence. The Holy Land Fund, where 265 00:15:20,630 --> 00:15:26,030 S3: they unveiled the secret plan of Muslim America within 100 266 00:15:26,030 --> 00:15:28,990 S3: years that started in 1999. And I think they're making 267 00:15:29,030 --> 00:15:31,230 S3: not such a bad progress. When you see a lot 268 00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:34,150 S3: of towns in America. And maybe the biggest one will 269 00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:37,790 S3: be New York, New York as something that it is, 270 00:15:38,190 --> 00:15:41,420 S3: you know, overwhelming, at least at my point of view, 271 00:15:41,420 --> 00:15:44,500 S3: to see that it is, you know, places like Dearborn 272 00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:47,300 S3: that they wake up at 5 a.m. because the mosque 273 00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:50,500 S3: is having his service calling to people. And this is 274 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:54,740 S3: something new to America, but unfortunately it is getting much 275 00:15:54,740 --> 00:15:56,700 S3: more spin in the US. 276 00:15:57,540 --> 00:16:02,700 S1: Understanding US Israel relations. That's our significant conversation today on 277 00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:05,460 S1: the land and the book. I'm John Yeager talking with 278 00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:09,380 S1: our guest, Doctor Kobi Barda. What does your research suggest 279 00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:14,820 S1: are the biggest influences, the loudest voices shaping American Israeli relations? Again, 280 00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:17,420 S1: you've pointed to social media, you've pointed to China, we've 281 00:16:17,420 --> 00:16:20,620 S1: pointed to other nations. We've got Iran. And what are 282 00:16:20,620 --> 00:16:23,220 S1: these voices shaping American-Israeli relations today? 283 00:16:23,660 --> 00:16:26,740 S3: So today, mainly, as I said, there is a lot 284 00:16:26,740 --> 00:16:32,620 S3: of investing money in newspapers, in social media and in campuses, 285 00:16:32,660 --> 00:16:35,380 S3: trying to create a new generation of people who hate 286 00:16:35,420 --> 00:16:39,370 S3: not just Israel hating America. Sometimes it's unbelievable to see 287 00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:43,250 S3: kids in school. That ripping American flag. You know you're 288 00:16:43,250 --> 00:16:45,850 S3: living here. You should cherish those values. How can you 289 00:16:45,850 --> 00:16:48,330 S3: do something of that nature? It's for me, it's phenomenal. 290 00:16:48,370 --> 00:16:52,450 S3: It's something, you know, I just can't understand that, uh, I. 291 00:16:52,610 --> 00:16:54,330 S1: See these people, and I want to send them on 292 00:16:54,330 --> 00:16:57,130 S1: a plane to just about anywhere else on the planet. 293 00:16:57,410 --> 00:16:59,170 S1: Let them hang out there for a month or two 294 00:16:59,210 --> 00:17:00,370 S1: and then come back. 295 00:17:00,410 --> 00:17:02,970 S3: You know, sometimes this is something that we need to challenge, 296 00:17:03,170 --> 00:17:05,889 S3: and we're hearing people who like the book, like the 297 00:17:06,130 --> 00:17:09,730 S3: the understanding of the importance of Israel to humanity, if 298 00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:13,969 S3: you may. And you know, one thing that is really important, 299 00:17:14,010 --> 00:17:16,850 S3: at least to me as Israeli, is to find out 300 00:17:16,850 --> 00:17:21,130 S3: that within that two years, the people that supported most 301 00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:25,650 S3: in Jews in America and in Israelis are Christian Zionists 302 00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:28,650 S3: or evangelicals, and it is a phenomena. And last year 303 00:17:28,650 --> 00:17:32,570 S3: I've been doing a documentary. And one of the most 304 00:17:32,570 --> 00:17:37,330 S3: amazing thing is that I interviewed Jewish students who decided 305 00:17:37,330 --> 00:17:40,520 S3: to go to Christian universities because that is the only 306 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,680 S3: place where they can feel safe. And for instance, in Hillsdale. 307 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,520 S3: So one of the students that I interviewed, she decided 308 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:49,720 S3: to go to Hillsdale Christian School, not so far away 309 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,600 S3: from here, rather than to go like her brother went 310 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,280 S3: to Michigan University at Ann Arbor. And he suffered a 311 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:01,520 S3: lot because he was a pro-zionist and stand with us advocate. 312 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:03,920 S3: And they chased him in the campus. That was even 313 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,720 S3: before October 7th. So I want to look also all 314 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,479 S3: the positive things. And as you said, the people of 315 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:13,400 S3: the Bible, the people of the word love Israel. And 316 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:17,200 S3: it is a huge chunk of the American mainly, you know, 317 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,960 S3: they're actually the backbone of America. Sometimes you don't get 318 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,760 S3: to hear them because maybe they're not in the right 319 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,800 S3: places in the media controlled by extra liberal, but they 320 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,840 S3: are the people that go every Sunday to church that 321 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,880 S3: that pray for the Israel are for for the survival 322 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,359 S3: of Israel. That sends a blessing for Israel as talking 323 00:18:36,470 --> 00:18:38,869 S3: with their congressmen. This is something that we need to 324 00:18:38,869 --> 00:18:40,470 S3: cherish and we need to love, and we need to 325 00:18:40,510 --> 00:18:42,910 S3: think as Israeli. I want to thank to people that 326 00:18:42,910 --> 00:18:45,790 S3: go every Sunday and pray for the sake of Zion. 327 00:18:45,830 --> 00:18:47,870 S1: Yeah, well, we're told in Scripture, pray for the peace 328 00:18:47,869 --> 00:18:52,390 S1: of Jerusalem, right? Yeah. Well, antisemitic attitudes in America, though 329 00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:56,149 S1: always present, were up until recently sort of generally limited 330 00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:59,550 S1: to kind of a a nasty whisper from the shadows. 331 00:18:59,590 --> 00:19:04,710 S1: Now anti-Semitism is loud and proud. It's screaming from almost 332 00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:08,470 S1: every corner of the culture. Obviously social media is there, 333 00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:11,030 S1: but what else has changed to bring this about? 334 00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:14,910 S3: So basically, what is really worried me that if that 335 00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:19,109 S3: was the beginning of 2018, only the squad members on 336 00:19:19,109 --> 00:19:21,669 S3: the left on the last half a year or so, 337 00:19:22,109 --> 00:19:25,909 S3: it also got to the right. So there's a theory 338 00:19:25,910 --> 00:19:29,510 S3: in political science called the horseshoe theory, meaning that the 339 00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:32,870 S3: far left and the far right almost meet. So if 340 00:19:32,910 --> 00:19:35,770 S3: you'll ask me who I want to take for a 341 00:19:35,810 --> 00:19:41,010 S3: ball dance MTG or AOC. Marjorie Taylor Greene or Alexandria Ocasio. 342 00:19:41,050 --> 00:19:44,210 S3: I will tell you, neither of those ladies, for instance. Okay, 343 00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:47,729 S3: so that's a problem because I get to see that 344 00:19:47,730 --> 00:19:50,850 S3: somewhere on the edges of the left and the right, 345 00:19:51,090 --> 00:19:55,210 S3: we're falling into very deep anti-Semitic roots. And this is 346 00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:57,129 S3: something that we all need to do. The Ministry of 347 00:19:57,130 --> 00:20:01,929 S3: Foreign Affairs trying to create some anti-Semitism combat. But we're, 348 00:20:01,970 --> 00:20:04,169 S3: you know, that's that's there. We need to understand and 349 00:20:04,170 --> 00:20:05,370 S3: acknowledge that it's there. 350 00:20:05,410 --> 00:20:08,610 S1: Yeah. Doctor Kobi Barda has served as a political campaign 351 00:20:08,609 --> 00:20:12,890 S1: manager and advisor to Israeli government ministers. Israeli parliament members 352 00:20:12,890 --> 00:20:15,530 S1: and mayors were honored to have him in our studio 353 00:20:15,530 --> 00:20:18,090 S1: today on the land and the book, I think one 354 00:20:18,090 --> 00:20:22,210 S1: of the confusing issues for evangelical Christians in America is 355 00:20:22,410 --> 00:20:26,450 S1: the disconnect that we sometimes observe between Jewish people in 356 00:20:26,450 --> 00:20:30,250 S1: the States and Jewish people in Israel itself. Do you 357 00:20:30,290 --> 00:20:32,449 S1: share that observation? It sometimes feels, when I talk to 358 00:20:32,450 --> 00:20:36,800 S1: Jewish people here, there isn't near the passion for Israel itself. Uh, 359 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:37,840 S1: help me understand that. 360 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,920 S4: Well, so here's the thing. 361 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,800 S3: I think that, uh, the Zionist movement, first off, it's 362 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,840 S3: a phenomenon that only started after the World War two. 363 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,640 S3: So the Zionist movement, uh, speaking of the Jewish diaspora 364 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,920 S3: in America, was a fringe only after World War two 365 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,600 S3: that they understand what happened to the Jews in Europe. 366 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,760 S3: They decided that they need to rally up and support 367 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,760 S3: the creation of land for the Jews. So that wasn't 368 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,680 S3: necessarily just because of the Bible. It was more because 369 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:13,879 S3: there was a refuge. Whereas evangelicals, they believed the word, 370 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,720 S3: and the word say, as you know, as it says 371 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,440 S3: in Genesis, who are all blessed, they will be blessed, 372 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,480 S3: while cursed will be cursed. And that is why people 373 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,240 S3: that they are men of faith. You know, there's a very, uh, 374 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,800 S3: nice story about that, that, um, when was the hearing 375 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,200 S3: of the Minister of War Haggith in Senate. So there 376 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,790 S3: were two pro-Palestinian that started to challenge your, your, uh, 377 00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:39,230 S3: Christian Zionist. And so one of the senators asked him, 378 00:21:39,230 --> 00:21:42,630 S3: are you, uh, really a Christian Zionist? He said, listen, 379 00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:46,230 S3: I'm a man of the word. I believe the word. 380 00:21:46,230 --> 00:21:48,710 S3: I believe the Bible, and I believe that in the 381 00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:51,310 S3: Bible the land was given to the Jews. So, yes, 382 00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:53,590 S3: if you want to call me Christian Zionist, let it 383 00:21:53,590 --> 00:21:57,430 S3: be so. You know that that for me is the 384 00:21:57,430 --> 00:22:02,750 S3: essence of the whole story. So whereas realistic point of view, 385 00:22:02,790 --> 00:22:06,510 S3: some of my Jewish brothers and sisters in America looked 386 00:22:06,510 --> 00:22:10,030 S3: at a refuge for Jews after the war, there was 387 00:22:10,030 --> 00:22:13,310 S3: no hesitation within the I like to call them Christian Zionists, 388 00:22:13,310 --> 00:22:17,750 S3: because often I tell to my Israeli followers and my 389 00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:21,030 S3: friends that I have much more in common with the 390 00:22:21,030 --> 00:22:25,150 S3: Christian Zionist than with the Jew. That is not Zionist. 391 00:22:25,310 --> 00:22:28,429 S3: So for me, Zionist is a pivotal point that will 392 00:22:28,430 --> 00:22:31,659 S3: share my interest with the Christian or Muslim or I 393 00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:35,340 S3: don't know who that is Zionist more than it comes 394 00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:37,940 S3: first to me. Even before the term Jew. And that's why, 395 00:22:37,980 --> 00:22:40,380 S3: for me, it is so important to talk about that 396 00:22:40,380 --> 00:22:43,540 S3: issue to Israelis, to explain them. And I get to 397 00:22:43,540 --> 00:22:46,340 S3: see much more people in Israel start to understand, especially 398 00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:46,900 S3: after the war. 399 00:22:46,940 --> 00:22:48,419 S1: All right. We're going to put you in a difficult 400 00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:49,900 S1: spot here. Are you ready for this? Yes. I want 401 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,900 S1: you to repeat what I say and fill in the blank. 402 00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:53,380 S4: Okay. 403 00:22:53,420 --> 00:22:57,379 S1: Here it is. If I could just change blank, I 404 00:22:57,380 --> 00:23:00,379 S1: think it would make a huge difference in American-Israeli relations. 405 00:23:00,380 --> 00:23:02,020 S1: If I could just change. 406 00:23:03,340 --> 00:23:03,740 S4: Uh. 407 00:23:04,260 --> 00:23:09,620 S3: I could just change the understanding of people about Qatar. 408 00:23:10,540 --> 00:23:13,540 S3: I will then be able to make a huge leverage. 409 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:19,540 S3: Qatar using, uh, what I called retainer diplomacy. They literally 410 00:23:19,540 --> 00:23:23,100 S3: bought everything just recently. They bought a piece of land, 411 00:23:23,220 --> 00:23:26,260 S3: air base in Idaho without the governor. No doubt. Without 412 00:23:26,260 --> 00:23:29,699 S3: the senators. No, not without anyone. Know that. And Qatar 413 00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:33,929 S3: are literally bribing the whole world. Unfortunately in Israel as well. 414 00:23:34,250 --> 00:23:38,570 S3: And I'm telling you that the evil that Qatar is 415 00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:43,970 S3: promoting is rotting the roots of the support in Israel, 416 00:23:43,970 --> 00:23:47,410 S3: in America. Really? 100% I don't even think about. I mean, 417 00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:51,010 S3: there was TikTok, but thank God TikTok was sold. Uh, 418 00:23:51,010 --> 00:23:54,090 S3: and I think that TikTok America now is less of 419 00:23:54,090 --> 00:23:57,650 S3: a problem. But Qatar remained the biggest problem of the 420 00:23:57,650 --> 00:23:59,689 S3: Israeli-American relation. 421 00:24:00,130 --> 00:24:03,449 S1: What about Israeli attitudes toward the US? What do you 422 00:24:03,450 --> 00:24:04,610 S1: think needs to change there? 423 00:24:04,770 --> 00:24:07,650 S3: I don't think there's nothing to be changed there. You know, 424 00:24:07,930 --> 00:24:12,490 S3: I helped in promoting to get back the hostages and 425 00:24:12,609 --> 00:24:17,730 S3: we held a survey. So can you believe that 80% 426 00:24:17,810 --> 00:24:23,290 S3: of Israelis approve Donald Trump Gaza plan? 80%. And bear 427 00:24:23,330 --> 00:24:26,410 S3: in mind that 20% out of Israel are Muslims. So 428 00:24:26,410 --> 00:24:29,560 S3: you would have almost 100%. percent. I don't think there's 429 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,600 S3: a nation in the whole, not even Idaho that, uh, 430 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,960 S3: adore the President Trump as in Israel, because you would 431 00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,840 S3: get people that going with signs, uh, liberal, extra liberal. 432 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,879 S3: Some of my friends are university professors. Trump, please help us. 433 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,040 S3: And I get to tell them, but you are a pro, Kamala. 434 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,760 S3: And they tell me, yeah, we were wrong. So I mean, 435 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,040 S3: it's like it's unbelievable to hear that. I think that 436 00:24:56,040 --> 00:25:01,919 S3: to achieve 80% approval rating outside of America as a phenomena, 437 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,560 S3: and I don't think that you can push more of 438 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,240 S3: that limit given the fact that 20% of them are Muslims. 439 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,679 S1: All right. Last question, Doctor Barter, what can listeners right 440 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,560 S1: now who love Israel do to help improve the relationship 441 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,520 S1: between the two countries? 442 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,639 S3: I would say one thing only. Write your congressman, write 443 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,720 S3: your senator. All of my work is about grassroots movement. 444 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:26,560 S3: The United States is the only place in on all 445 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:31,070 S3: earth that every single person has the will and the 446 00:25:31,109 --> 00:25:35,230 S3: way to change the route of diplomacy. And that's only 447 00:25:35,230 --> 00:25:38,109 S3: in that beautiful land of America. So use that pen 448 00:25:38,109 --> 00:25:41,430 S3: of yours. Use that chat of yours. Use that phone 449 00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:44,750 S3: of yours. Call and encourage your congressmen to vote and 450 00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:45,430 S3: bless Israel. 451 00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:48,070 S1: Doctor barter, our guest today on the land in the book. 452 00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:50,790 S1: I wish the time didn't go so fast. Thank you 453 00:25:50,790 --> 00:25:51,230 S1: for hanging. 454 00:25:51,230 --> 00:25:52,830 S3: Out with us so much. Thank you for hosting me. 455 00:25:53,150 --> 00:25:54,910 S1: More to come here on the land and the book. 456 00:25:54,910 --> 00:26:08,910 S1: Stay with us. Welcome back to the land and the book. 457 00:26:08,910 --> 00:26:12,070 S1: I'm John Yeager. Seated across from Doctor Gerald Peterman. More 458 00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:15,830 S1: about him after I say, let's say you're listening for 459 00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:18,710 S1: the first time, or maybe you're a newer listener. Well, 460 00:26:18,710 --> 00:26:21,550 S1: this is segment three, our third out of four, and 461 00:26:21,550 --> 00:26:25,710 S1: it's devoted entirely to addressing your questions about the Bible, prophecy, 462 00:26:25,710 --> 00:26:28,100 S1: the Middle East, that sort of thing. All fair game, 463 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:30,540 S1: all welcome with an email to us. We can't read 464 00:26:30,540 --> 00:26:32,659 S1: your mind, can't read your question unless you share it 465 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:35,740 S1: with us. So email your question to the land and 466 00:26:35,740 --> 00:26:43,260 S1: the book at the land and the book at. Eric's 467 00:26:43,300 --> 00:26:46,220 S1: got a question that'll get us off and running. But first, 468 00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:49,379 S1: no question that we all face fearful times from time 469 00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:51,179 S1: to time. The question is, what do we do with 470 00:26:51,180 --> 00:26:54,180 S1: those fears? Wes Tabor of Life in Messiah has written 471 00:26:54,180 --> 00:26:58,060 S1: the book Where Is God in Fearful Times, a biblical 472 00:26:58,060 --> 00:27:01,300 S1: Account of the Exodus Journey, piece by piece. Wes, how 473 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:03,260 S1: do you think our lives would be different if we 474 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:06,180 S1: today had a stronger grip on this question? Where is 475 00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:08,900 S1: God in fearful times? That's a great question. 476 00:27:09,340 --> 00:27:12,700 S5: God is sovereign. God designs what we go through. We 477 00:27:12,740 --> 00:27:16,060 S5: decide how we will go through it. Our circumstances are 478 00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:19,220 S5: ordained of the Lord. They're there to humble us, to 479 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:21,180 S5: test us, to prove what's in our hearts. 480 00:27:21,180 --> 00:27:22,859 S1: You've done such a beautiful job in this book of 481 00:27:22,859 --> 00:27:26,570 S1: bringing these scriptures alive. Bits and pieces of passages that 482 00:27:26,570 --> 00:27:29,250 S1: come alive even as you discuss things like The Fear 483 00:27:29,250 --> 00:27:32,409 S1: Factor and Misery Index. It's all in the book. Where 484 00:27:32,410 --> 00:27:35,250 S1: is God in Fearful times? How do you get a copy? 485 00:27:35,290 --> 00:27:37,170 S1: We've got one for you with your name on it. 486 00:27:37,210 --> 00:27:40,409 S1: If you'll visit us at Life in Messiah. Click on 487 00:27:40,410 --> 00:27:44,410 S1: the radio button there. Life in Messiah. The book is 488 00:27:44,410 --> 00:27:48,050 S1: where is God in fearful times? All right. To Eric's 489 00:27:48,050 --> 00:27:50,930 S1: question as we sit down with Doctor Gerald Peterman here. 490 00:27:50,930 --> 00:27:52,969 S1: By the way, if you're new to him, he's on 491 00:27:52,970 --> 00:27:55,649 S1: the faculty of Moody Bible Institute. Been teaching students for 492 00:27:55,650 --> 00:27:56,570 S1: how many years here? 493 00:27:56,930 --> 00:27:58,170 S6: Since 2002. 494 00:27:58,290 --> 00:28:01,530 S1: Okay, so he knows his stuff. He knows the word. 495 00:28:01,530 --> 00:28:04,290 S1: And he loves getting your questions too. Again, you can 496 00:28:04,290 --> 00:28:07,450 S1: email yours to the Land and the book at Moody. 497 00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:12,530 S1: Eric asks, what is the history of the Pope? He says, 498 00:28:12,530 --> 00:28:14,690 S1: I just wanted to know why and how they came 499 00:28:14,690 --> 00:28:16,610 S1: up with the practice of having a pope. And when 500 00:28:16,609 --> 00:28:19,810 S1: it started, and was Peter the first pope, or was 501 00:28:19,810 --> 00:28:21,450 S1: this something that was started later? 502 00:28:21,730 --> 00:28:24,990 S6: Thank you, Eric, for the question. This word pope has 503 00:28:24,990 --> 00:28:28,870 S6: its origins in the Greek term papas. That's the familiar 504 00:28:28,869 --> 00:28:31,830 S6: word for father. And so the Pope is viewed as 505 00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:34,109 S6: the father of the church, just as a father is 506 00:28:34,150 --> 00:28:36,790 S6: an authority in his house. So the Pope is viewed 507 00:28:36,790 --> 00:28:41,150 S6: as the authority for the church from a Roman Catholic perspective. 508 00:28:41,670 --> 00:28:45,670 S6: When does the papacy. You might say, start? Well, they 509 00:28:45,670 --> 00:28:49,630 S6: would say essentially starts with Peter. And when does that begin? Well, 510 00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:53,910 S6: we know it begins something like Matthew 16, because Peter 511 00:28:53,910 --> 00:28:57,030 S6: confesses that Jesus is the Christ. And you remember our 512 00:28:57,030 --> 00:29:00,870 S6: Lord's response? He says to him, blessed are you, Simon 513 00:29:00,870 --> 00:29:03,150 S6: Barjona for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, 514 00:29:03,150 --> 00:29:06,510 S6: but my father who is in heaven. And I tell you, 515 00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:10,270 S6: you are Peter. And on this rock I will build 516 00:29:10,270 --> 00:29:13,110 S6: my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail 517 00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:16,590 S6: against it. That's a play on words between Petros, the 518 00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:20,790 S6: name of Peter Wright, and Petra bedrock. And so, from 519 00:29:20,790 --> 00:29:24,020 S6: a Roman Catholic perspective, This starts with Peter. But if 520 00:29:24,020 --> 00:29:26,980 S6: you look back in history, I think really the papacy 521 00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:30,740 S6: starts something like the middle of the fourth century at 522 00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:32,180 S6: the time of Constantine. 523 00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:35,420 S1: Why would you say that? Why not Peter at that moment, 524 00:29:35,420 --> 00:29:38,420 S1: as many Catholics believe, as opposed to what you're suggesting, 525 00:29:38,420 --> 00:29:39,540 S1: the fourth century, maybe. 526 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,020 S6: Um, there's no solid evidence. Historically speaking. Of course, getting 527 00:29:44,020 --> 00:29:46,500 S6: evidence from the ancient world can sometimes be very difficult. 528 00:29:46,780 --> 00:29:52,060 S6: There's no solid evidence that Peter is first taking on 529 00:29:52,060 --> 00:29:56,700 S6: obligation for all of Christians in the world, right? And secondly, 530 00:29:56,780 --> 00:30:00,820 S6: there's no indication that this position of being over all 531 00:30:00,820 --> 00:30:04,620 S6: of Christianity is then passed on from Peter to one 532 00:30:04,980 --> 00:30:09,460 S6: other church father. That doesn't happen. That doesn't happen until 533 00:30:09,460 --> 00:30:13,740 S6: sometime like the fourth century. The church is horribly persecuted 534 00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:17,460 S6: in the first few centuries. Persecution basically stops. I mean, 535 00:30:17,500 --> 00:30:21,410 S6: for a while anyway, when Constantine becomes a Christian and 536 00:30:21,410 --> 00:30:27,250 S6: then the church becomes very organized, very hierarchical. And because 537 00:30:27,250 --> 00:30:30,850 S6: of that begins to attract lots of authority to itself. 538 00:30:31,450 --> 00:30:33,970 S6: And because that authority gets attracted to itself as a 539 00:30:33,970 --> 00:30:38,410 S6: recognized religion, then the Pope emerges as the one over 540 00:30:38,410 --> 00:30:39,490 S6: all of Christianity. 541 00:30:39,530 --> 00:30:42,170 S1: Okay. So evangelicals, like those of us with the Moody 542 00:30:42,170 --> 00:30:46,810 S1: Bible Institute would certainly recognize that that is what Catholics believe. 543 00:30:46,850 --> 00:30:49,930 S1: We have a different perspective, though scripturally. Take us there. 544 00:30:50,610 --> 00:30:54,130 S6: Yes, absolutely. On the one hand, Peter, of course, has 545 00:30:54,170 --> 00:30:56,730 S6: some authority in the ancient church. But of course, he's 546 00:30:56,730 --> 00:30:59,810 S6: not the only one with the authority. There are other 547 00:30:59,810 --> 00:31:01,890 S6: apostles who are sharing it with him. And then Paul 548 00:31:01,890 --> 00:31:04,690 S6: comes along and becomes, if you will, a 13th apostle 549 00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:07,810 S6: and writes half the books in our New Testament. Right. 550 00:31:07,850 --> 00:31:10,290 S6: The 13 out of 27. And so it looks to 551 00:31:10,330 --> 00:31:16,130 S6: me like the authority, the power, the giftedness is being shared. 552 00:31:16,450 --> 00:31:21,080 S6: It's being spread across many powerful and gifted individuals, rather 553 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,720 S6: than being focused on one person. 554 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,240 S1: All right. Thanks for that question, Eric. Trust. That's helpful. 555 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,840 S1: Melinda asks, could you help me understand what Jewish people 556 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,120 S1: believe about their coming Messiah? Do they believe he is 557 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,840 S1: equal with God the Father as God's Son? I want 558 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,000 S1: to understand their beliefs in case I have a chance 559 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,239 S1: to talk about my faith. And Jerry, I'm thinking she 560 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,920 S1: needs to be a little more positive here. It's not if, 561 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:43,760 S1: it's when. 562 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,719 S6: I think she definitely will. And I'm glad that Melinda 563 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,960 S6: wants to be prepared. That's right. Yes. Um, I really 564 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,160 S6: understand the question, but the question is hard to answer. 565 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,600 S6: There are what you might call conservative Jews, Orthodox Jews 566 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,520 S6: reading their Old Testament. When they read their Old Testament, 567 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,600 S6: they find a messiah, son of David, who's been promised, 568 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,600 S6: who's coming, and that Messiah they believe, will establish Israel 569 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:12,280 S6: in its homeland and have world authority and bring world peace. 570 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,600 S6: And so the Messiah is an individual, a son of David. 571 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,190 S6: That might sound like a Christian perspective. So some Jews 572 00:32:20,190 --> 00:32:23,230 S6: have such a perspective. Oh, but wait, even those who 573 00:32:23,230 --> 00:32:27,550 S6: have this perspective don't believe that Messiah is God incarnate. 574 00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:31,150 S6: They don't believe in a Trinity that the eternal Son 575 00:32:31,470 --> 00:32:34,310 S6: has become flesh, and this is the King of Israel. 576 00:32:34,790 --> 00:32:38,870 S6: Then other Jews you might call more Reformed Jews, think 577 00:32:38,910 --> 00:32:41,950 S6: there is a messianic kind of feel or a messianic 578 00:32:41,950 --> 00:32:44,830 S6: kind of idea in the Old Testament, but the Messiah 579 00:32:44,830 --> 00:32:47,750 S6: isn't a particular person. It's kind of like a worldview. 580 00:32:47,750 --> 00:32:51,590 S6: So they anticipate a coming messianic age, perhaps with world peace, 581 00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:54,870 S6: but not a particular messiah. And there are many other 582 00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:57,030 S6: types of Jews as well. There are other Jews who 583 00:32:57,030 --> 00:32:58,990 S6: really want to be known as Jewish, but they don't 584 00:32:58,990 --> 00:33:01,750 S6: believe in God at all. And so for them, Messiah 585 00:33:01,750 --> 00:33:05,430 S6: is irrelevant. So here's what I encourage Melinda to do 586 00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:09,710 S6: with her Jewish friends. Ask them to tell her about 587 00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:11,989 S6: their beliefs. What do they believe about Messiah? What do 588 00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:13,910 S6: they believe about God? What do they believe about their 589 00:33:13,910 --> 00:33:19,140 S6: Hebrew Scriptures? And listen. Listen carefully. listen with honor and respect, 590 00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:22,020 S6: and then hopefully, by the guidance of the Holy Spirit, 591 00:33:22,260 --> 00:33:25,020 S6: God will then give you the opportunity to speak to 592 00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:29,540 S6: them about your perspective on our Messiah, King Jesus. 593 00:33:29,580 --> 00:33:32,180 S1: I'm so grateful for your emphasis on listening carefully. I 594 00:33:32,180 --> 00:33:37,380 S1: think so often people like me, you know, are listening 595 00:33:37,540 --> 00:33:39,420 S1: only so that we can get going on our point. 596 00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:41,979 S1: And that isn't the point. That's not good listening at all. 597 00:33:42,180 --> 00:33:45,220 S6: Yeah, too often I think of my answer while I'm listening. Yeah, 598 00:33:45,220 --> 00:33:45,860 S6: that's not good. 599 00:33:45,900 --> 00:33:48,620 S1: No, we're there to honor others, particularly those who don't 600 00:33:48,620 --> 00:33:51,020 S1: know Christ as Savior. And one way we can honor 601 00:33:51,020 --> 00:33:53,860 S1: them and show them respect and curry favor and build 602 00:33:53,860 --> 00:33:57,220 S1: bridges into their lives is simply by listening, perhaps even 603 00:33:57,220 --> 00:34:00,180 S1: without commenting. All right, before I get to preaching, let's 604 00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:02,660 S1: get on to a reminder. You can get your emailed 605 00:34:02,660 --> 00:34:05,180 S1: question to us at The Land and the book at 606 00:34:06,980 --> 00:34:11,820 S1: the land and the book at. Dan says, I've finally 607 00:34:11,820 --> 00:34:14,140 S1: gotten around to reading the Book of Numbers, and some 608 00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:17,370 S1: parts are difficult, But when I got to the place 609 00:34:17,370 --> 00:34:20,650 S1: where Moses says to God, just kill me, I was stunned. 610 00:34:20,690 --> 00:34:21,930 S1: What do I do with that? 611 00:34:22,330 --> 00:34:25,089 S6: Well, thanks Dan, I'm glad you made the effort and 612 00:34:25,130 --> 00:34:28,129 S6: you're in the book of numbers. It can be quite difficult. 613 00:34:28,489 --> 00:34:33,410 S6: Now let's remember numbers comes after Exodus. If you're reading Exodus, 614 00:34:33,410 --> 00:34:36,730 S6: here's one thing you know that the children of Israel, 615 00:34:36,969 --> 00:34:39,729 S6: though God has been gracious, though he has brought them 616 00:34:39,730 --> 00:34:44,770 S6: out of slavery, they are grumbling and fault finding and complaining, 617 00:34:44,770 --> 00:34:46,770 S6: and they don't like the food, and they don't like 618 00:34:46,770 --> 00:34:50,090 S6: the water, and they don't like the environment. And Moses 619 00:34:50,090 --> 00:34:53,649 S6: has to carry this because he is their leader. That 620 00:34:53,650 --> 00:34:57,850 S6: fault finding and that complaining goes on into numbers and 621 00:34:57,850 --> 00:35:01,690 S6: earlier in numbers 11, about the way Dan was quoting 622 00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:04,930 S6: from numbers 11 and earlier numbers 11, Moses heard the 623 00:35:04,930 --> 00:35:07,890 S6: people weeping outside their tents, and the anger of the 624 00:35:07,890 --> 00:35:11,009 S6: Lord was blazing. And Moses says the Lord, why have 625 00:35:11,010 --> 00:35:14,330 S6: you dealt ill with your servants? Why have I not 626 00:35:14,430 --> 00:35:18,110 S6: found favor in your sight? That you lay the burden 627 00:35:18,430 --> 00:35:22,109 S6: of all this people on me? Moses is feeling a 628 00:35:22,110 --> 00:35:25,750 S6: terrible burden in leading these people and being patient with them. 629 00:35:25,950 --> 00:35:28,830 S6: And I think at this point he says, just kill me. 630 00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:31,549 S6: He's reached the breaking point. He just feels like he 631 00:35:31,550 --> 00:35:36,710 S6: cannot carry the burden and the stress anymore. Folks, I 632 00:35:36,750 --> 00:35:39,750 S6: hope you never get there. But I've been there and 633 00:35:39,750 --> 00:35:42,950 S6: I think God is so patient, so kind, so loving. 634 00:35:42,989 --> 00:35:47,270 S6: He wants to listen to us. Be honest with him. 635 00:35:48,070 --> 00:35:50,549 S1: Quick question from Fred. We read in Genesis one that 636 00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:53,750 S1: God created light on the first day. But first John 637 00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:56,950 S1: one five tells us that God is light. And in 638 00:35:56,950 --> 00:36:01,109 S1: revelation 2123 we read, God gives light. So why is 639 00:36:01,110 --> 00:36:03,070 S1: there a need for him to create light? 640 00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:06,390 S6: Good. I appreciate the question. When we come to our Bibles, 641 00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:10,190 S6: we'll find this word light used at least two different ways. 642 00:36:10,190 --> 00:36:13,069 S6: One way is what you might call physical light, like 643 00:36:13,180 --> 00:36:14,299 S6: when you get up in the middle of the night 644 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:15,820 S6: to go to the bathroom. Am I the only one 645 00:36:15,820 --> 00:36:17,700 S6: you need a flashlight? You need. You need light to 646 00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:23,540 S6: see where you're going. Sure. Other times, light is revelation, insight. 647 00:36:23,540 --> 00:36:27,620 S6: Or maybe light is purity. Holiness. So to say God 648 00:36:27,620 --> 00:36:30,219 S6: is light, there's no evil in him. There's no darkness. 649 00:36:30,219 --> 00:36:35,020 S6: And he reveals to us. So we're talking about two 650 00:36:35,140 --> 00:36:37,739 S6: different kinds of light, although very often we talk about 651 00:36:37,739 --> 00:36:39,380 S6: them in very parallel ways. 652 00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:42,500 S1: And that's Doctor Gerald Peterman answering your questions. Connect with 653 00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:47,220 S1: him at the land and the book at Moody. Connect 654 00:36:47,219 --> 00:36:49,500 S1: with Charlie Dyer by sticking around for our fourth and 655 00:36:49,500 --> 00:37:06,060 S1: final segment. Next. Standing on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. 656 00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:10,460 S1: The concept of valleys really comes to life big time. Well, 657 00:37:10,460 --> 00:37:13,770 S1: valleys are at the heart of Charlie's devotional today. Welcome 658 00:37:13,770 --> 00:37:17,210 S1: back to this fourth segment on the Land and the book. But, Charlie, 659 00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:19,210 S1: I understand it isn't Jerusalem where we're going. 660 00:37:19,489 --> 00:37:21,810 S2: No it's not. We're heading to actually my favorite part 661 00:37:21,810 --> 00:37:25,210 S2: of Israel, the Judean wilderness, and heading toward the Wadi Kilte, 662 00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:26,570 S2: which we've talked about before. 663 00:37:26,690 --> 00:37:29,450 S1: And we'll do that after this Holy Land experience testimony. 664 00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:30,170 S1: Let's listen. 665 00:37:34,570 --> 00:37:38,850 S7: It has been a dream come true for my husband 666 00:37:38,850 --> 00:37:42,489 S7: and I to be here. Um, before we left, there 667 00:37:42,489 --> 00:37:45,410 S7: were so many Jewish friends of ours, in addition to 668 00:37:45,450 --> 00:37:50,090 S7: Christian friends who were talking so much about Israel and 669 00:37:50,290 --> 00:37:55,370 S7: their experiences there. I was afraid that somehow they were 670 00:37:55,370 --> 00:38:00,090 S7: building up my expectations too much. And so I had 671 00:38:00,090 --> 00:38:04,370 S7: several people pray that I was going to get everything 672 00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:08,570 S7: I needed to get out of it every day. Being 673 00:38:08,570 --> 00:38:12,120 S7: here with the group who is wonderful. All of you 674 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:16,879 S7: who have privileged us by being so organized and detailed, 675 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:24,920 S7: has far surpassed any expectations I could have ever had. And, um, 676 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,080 S7: it's just hard to express the contents of my heart. 677 00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,080 S7: Every moment. It's so much to take in. But God 678 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,600 S7: is making all that happen. And so we just. Thank 679 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,160 S7: you so much. 680 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,040 S1: Charlie, only a visit to Israel brings to life the 681 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,040 S1: sense of geography. I'm amazed at what you see, how 682 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,719 S1: 3D everything is, and it matters when it comes to Scripture, 683 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:51,399 S1: but I'll let you have at it in today's devotional. 684 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,719 S2: Okay? Yeah, your feet tell you as much there as 685 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,040 S2: your eyes do sometimes, but watch your step. Take your 686 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,760 S2: time because the climb to the top of this hill 687 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,960 S2: will definitely get your heart pumping. But once you get 688 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,000 S2: to the top, the view will take your breath away. Okay, 689 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:10,509 S2: here we are, my favorite place in all Israel. The 690 00:39:10,510 --> 00:39:13,069 S2: valley right below us is the Wadi Kilt. Don't get 691 00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:15,430 S2: too close to the edge. It's several hundred feet down 692 00:39:15,430 --> 00:39:18,190 S2: to the valley floor. And we don't want to lose you. 693 00:39:18,630 --> 00:39:21,109 S2: There's so much I want to talk about today, but 694 00:39:21,110 --> 00:39:23,910 S2: I need to begin with some geography. Look down the 695 00:39:23,910 --> 00:39:26,350 S2: valley to where it ends. See that patch of green 696 00:39:26,350 --> 00:39:29,990 S2: out there? You're looking into the Jordan Valley and Jericho. 697 00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:34,190 S2: We're actually standing at the biblical border that separated the 698 00:39:34,190 --> 00:39:37,830 S2: tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The border curved to the 699 00:39:37,830 --> 00:39:40,589 S2: north and west from the Dead Sea, going just to 700 00:39:40,630 --> 00:39:43,550 S2: the south of Jericho. It then went up the valley 701 00:39:43,550 --> 00:39:46,510 S2: of Achor and went to a place said to be 702 00:39:46,510 --> 00:39:49,870 S2: opposite the ascent of Adummim, which is on the south 703 00:39:49,870 --> 00:39:52,710 S2: of the valley. The gorge below us seems to be 704 00:39:52,710 --> 00:39:55,830 S2: the valley Joshua was describing, and he calls it the 705 00:39:55,830 --> 00:39:59,509 S2: Valley of Achor, which means valley of trouble. And as 706 00:39:59,510 --> 00:40:01,750 S2: you look down at it, it definitely looks like a 707 00:40:01,750 --> 00:40:04,989 S2: place that spells trouble for anyone trying to get across. 708 00:40:05,150 --> 00:40:07,950 S2: But that's not how the Valley got its name. The 709 00:40:08,060 --> 00:40:11,220 S2: name was given earlier in the Book of Joshua. Israel 710 00:40:11,219 --> 00:40:14,100 S2: had entered the land and defeated the inhabitants of Jericho. 711 00:40:14,300 --> 00:40:17,380 S2: Things were going well when a man named Achan decided 712 00:40:17,380 --> 00:40:20,420 S2: it was okay to bend God's rules just a little. 713 00:40:20,780 --> 00:40:24,460 S2: God had commanded Israel to totally destroy Jericho and take nothing. 714 00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:27,420 S2: But Achan came across some treasure too good to pass 715 00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:31,500 S2: up a beautiful garment, £5 of silver, and a little 716 00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:34,420 S2: over a pound of gold. I have so little, and 717 00:40:34,420 --> 00:40:37,299 S2: God has so much. Surely he won't mind too much 718 00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:41,060 S2: if I take this. Well, that little sin cost Israel 719 00:40:41,060 --> 00:40:44,020 S2: the death of 36 soldiers when they tried to take 720 00:40:44,020 --> 00:40:46,860 S2: the city of AI and discovered God was no longer 721 00:40:46,860 --> 00:40:50,819 S2: there to help. The nation gathered before God achan's sin 722 00:40:50,820 --> 00:40:54,860 S2: was discovered and he and his family were put to death. Why? 723 00:40:54,900 --> 00:40:57,980 S2: All his family? Because he'd hidden the loot in the 724 00:40:57,980 --> 00:41:02,540 S2: family tent. In today's legalese, they were co-conspirators in his plot. 725 00:41:02,820 --> 00:41:05,739 S2: And the valley below us, where their bodies were buried, 726 00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:09,770 S2: was then named the Valley of Achor, the Valley of Trouble. 727 00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:11,890 S2: But I didn't bring you up here to talk about 728 00:41:11,890 --> 00:41:16,490 S2: boundaries or conspiracies, or the impact sin has on a person, family, 729 00:41:16,489 --> 00:41:19,569 S2: or community. Instead, I want us to turn from the 730 00:41:19,570 --> 00:41:23,009 S2: past to the future. Look out over this valley and 731 00:41:23,010 --> 00:41:27,450 S2: imagine the entire sweep of Israel's history. David passed along 732 00:41:27,450 --> 00:41:30,969 S2: this valley as he fled from Absalom, the last king 733 00:41:31,010 --> 00:41:34,489 S2: of Judah. Zedekiah fled by this valley as he tried 734 00:41:34,489 --> 00:41:37,490 S2: to get away from the Babylonians, only to be captured 735 00:41:37,489 --> 00:41:40,370 S2: on the plains of Jericho, just there in the distance. 736 00:41:40,770 --> 00:41:44,610 S2: Jesus spent 40 days being tempted in this region by Satan. 737 00:41:45,090 --> 00:41:48,650 S2: All throughout history, this valley has lived up to its name, 738 00:41:48,850 --> 00:41:51,850 S2: the Valley of Trouble. But that's why the words of 739 00:41:51,850 --> 00:41:56,330 S2: the prophets Hosea and Isaiah are so dramatic. Both lived 740 00:41:56,330 --> 00:42:01,610 S2: in the same time and prophesied during the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, 741 00:42:01,610 --> 00:42:05,370 S2: and Hezekiah. Both predicted the destruction of the northern kingdom 742 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,800 S2: of Israel, and both saw the valley spread out below. 743 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,200 S2: As a symbol of hope. The prophet Hosea takes the 744 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,200 S2: northern kingdom of Israel on a roller coaster ride of 745 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:19,640 S2: peaks and valleys as he repeats the recurring themes of sin, judgment, 746 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:24,400 S2: and restoration. In chapter two, Hosea pictures Israel's sin, followed 747 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,879 S2: by God's announcement of judgment. But midway through the chapter, 748 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,279 S2: a dramatic change takes place. Hosea describes a new Exodus, 749 00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,200 S2: a time when God will bring Israel into the wilderness 750 00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:38,000 S2: and speak kindly to her, and the results will be 751 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,440 S2: dramatically different from the time when Israel first came into 752 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,680 S2: the land. Then I will give her vineyards from there 753 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,080 S2: and the valley of Achor as a door of hope. 754 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,359 S2: And she will sing there, as in the days of 755 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:51,480 S2: her youth, as in the days when they came up 756 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,920 S2: from the land of Egypt. A new exodus, a new 757 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,600 S2: entry into the land, and a totally different result, the 758 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,920 S2: Valley of Achor. That valley of trouble with its pile 759 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,980 S2: of stones marking Israel's first instance of disobedience in the 760 00:43:05,980 --> 00:43:09,420 S2: land will someday become a doorway of hope, a place 761 00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:12,260 S2: where the people will return both to the land and 762 00:43:12,260 --> 00:43:15,500 S2: to their God. It'll be a time, Hosea says, when 763 00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:18,739 S2: God will betroth Israel to himself forever, and they will 764 00:43:18,739 --> 00:43:22,700 S2: know the Lord. Hosea's amazing prophecy is then echoed by 765 00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:27,020 S2: the prophet Isaiah. The final chapters of Isaiah's amazing book 766 00:43:27,060 --> 00:43:30,180 S2: look toward the ultimate restoration of Israel to the land. 767 00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:34,260 S2: In Isaiah 65, God announces, I will bring forth offspring 768 00:43:34,260 --> 00:43:37,299 S2: from Jacob, and an heir of my mountains from Judah. 769 00:43:37,460 --> 00:43:40,380 S2: Even my chosen one shall inherit it, and my servants 770 00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:43,819 S2: shall dwell there. The descendants of Jacob and Judah will 771 00:43:43,820 --> 00:43:47,500 S2: again live in the land promised them by God. But 772 00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:49,620 S2: how much of the land will they possess in the 773 00:43:49,620 --> 00:43:53,420 S2: very next verse? God supplies the answer through Isaiah and 774 00:43:53,420 --> 00:43:56,100 S2: Sharon shall be a pasture land for flocks, and the 775 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,299 S2: valley of Achor a resting place for herds for my 776 00:43:59,300 --> 00:44:02,739 S2: people who seek me. In Isaiah's day, Sharon was a 777 00:44:02,850 --> 00:44:06,290 S2: sparsely populated area along the coast of the northern Kingdom 778 00:44:06,290 --> 00:44:08,770 S2: of Israel, while the Valley of Achor was in the 779 00:44:08,770 --> 00:44:12,450 S2: wilderness by the Jordan Valley. God's people will occupy all 780 00:44:12,450 --> 00:44:15,330 S2: the land from the western edge to the eastern edge. 781 00:44:15,690 --> 00:44:18,170 S2: But Isaiah was speaking about more than just points on 782 00:44:18,170 --> 00:44:21,330 S2: a compass. The Sharon plain was wooded with areas that 783 00:44:21,330 --> 00:44:25,370 S2: turned into uninhabitable swamp land in the winter. It wasn't 784 00:44:25,370 --> 00:44:28,330 S2: a place a shepherd would normally take his sheep. The 785 00:44:28,330 --> 00:44:31,570 S2: wilderness around the Valley of Achor was a place for shepherds, 786 00:44:31,570 --> 00:44:34,490 S2: but it was also a place of danger. Wild animals 787 00:44:34,489 --> 00:44:37,450 S2: roamed through the rugged hills, searching for sheep that might 788 00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:40,610 S2: just be out of sight from the shepherd. But Isaiah 789 00:44:40,610 --> 00:44:42,410 S2: said a day was coming when the people would not 790 00:44:42,410 --> 00:44:44,529 S2: only be back in the land, but they would be 791 00:44:44,530 --> 00:44:47,410 S2: there in safety. The Sharon plain in the West would 792 00:44:47,410 --> 00:44:50,330 S2: become pastureland, and the Valley of Achor to the east 793 00:44:50,330 --> 00:44:52,529 S2: would be a place where a shepherd could allow his 794 00:44:52,530 --> 00:44:56,489 S2: flocks to rest without fear. The Valley of Achor is 795 00:44:56,489 --> 00:44:59,890 S2: a valley with a sad history but an amazing future. 796 00:45:00,290 --> 00:45:02,560 S2: As we turn to walk back down to the bus. 797 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:06,080 S2: What can we take with us from this panorama? I 798 00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,000 S2: think the key word here we can carry away is hope. 799 00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:12,600 S2: God's promise to Israel is that this valley of trouble 800 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,239 S2: will someday become a doorway of hope. A day is 801 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,759 S2: coming when he promised to wipe every tear from our 802 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:20,839 S2: eyes and to turn our sorrows into joy. And as 803 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,200 S2: we learned last week in the Apostle John's great confession, 804 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,120 S2: Jesus reminded us of that hope in his final words 805 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:30,480 S2: to us from the Book of Revelation. Yes, I'm coming soon. 806 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,840 S2: And our response should resonate with the hope voiced by John. Amen. Come, 807 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,360 S2: Lord Jesus. And like the prophets, Isaiah and Hosea were 808 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,319 S2: also watching for that day. When we pass beyond this 809 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,800 S2: valley of trouble and through that doorway of hope into 810 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:50,319 S2: God's eternal blessing. And I think we should all say, come, 811 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,680 S2: Lord Jesus. 812 00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:53,960 S1: Thank you Charlie. You know, for a lot of people, 813 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,040 S1: this fourth and final segment is their very favorite. And 814 00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,000 S1: you can hear it all again. That's the good news. 815 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,230 S1: If you go to our website, The land and the book. Charlie, 816 00:46:03,230 --> 00:46:05,230 S1: there's a podcast there that a lot of people have 817 00:46:05,270 --> 00:46:07,750 S1: yet to take advantage of, and that's a shame, don't 818 00:46:07,750 --> 00:46:08,270 S1: you think? 819 00:46:08,310 --> 00:46:10,430 S2: I do, John, because it allows them to go back, 820 00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:12,630 S2: listen to the program or a part of the program 821 00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:15,670 S2: again at their convenience and something they may have missed. 822 00:46:15,670 --> 00:46:17,750 S2: They can pick up one more time. So it's really 823 00:46:17,750 --> 00:46:19,150 S2: a great opportunity for people. 824 00:46:19,150 --> 00:46:21,109 S1: And it's waiting for you now at our website, the 825 00:46:21,110 --> 00:46:26,150 S1: land and the book, the land and the book. If 826 00:46:26,190 --> 00:46:28,390 S1: you've got a comment, you've got a question. We want 827 00:46:28,430 --> 00:46:31,630 S1: to hear it. And specifically, if it's a Bible question, boy, 828 00:46:31,710 --> 00:46:34,029 S1: Doctor Gerald Peterman is happy to answer that. Give you 829 00:46:34,030 --> 00:46:37,190 S1: a personalized response as you email us at. The land 830 00:46:37,190 --> 00:46:44,950 S1: and the book. At the land and the book at Moody. Hey, 831 00:46:44,950 --> 00:46:48,030 S1: thanks for listening. Today. I'm John Yeager, for Charlie Dyer, 832 00:46:48,070 --> 00:46:50,830 S1: our producer, Dan Anderson. The land and the book is 833 00:46:50,830 --> 00:46:54,910 S1: a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.