S1: Forget self-esteem. Don't teach your kids self-esteem. Does that sound countercultural? Well,
S1: what if your parenting breakthrough came when you taught self-respect instead?
S2: Strong hearts are morally courageous children who are fortified with
S2: self-respect and grounded in truth. Of course, God's Word, grounded
S2: in truth and a strong heart, is a kid who's
S2: going to be able to defend their faith and defeat
S2: their foes, even those foes within, those foes within, and
S2: those foes without.
S1: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S1: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Today,
S1: author and founder of matters of the heart, Gil Garner
S1: shares her unique perspective on how to raise a generation
S1: of kids with strong hearts.
S3: If you're struggling in your parenting. Don't miss the help
S3: and hope straight ahead as we talk about her book,
S3: Strong Heart Cultivating Humility, Respect, and Resiliency in Your Child.
S3: It's our featured resource at building relationships.us. Gary, I'm looking
S3: forward to the response to this program. You know, after
S3: we had this conversation and air it because it feels
S3: like some of the sage wisdom from long ago is
S3: surfacing in our world again.
S4: What do you think? Well, I think so, Chris, and
S4: I think it's good. I think many, many parents are
S4: realizing that there's been a lot of things that have
S4: happened in the whole culture, and our kids are not
S4: always getting what they need. So I think the topic
S4: today is exceedingly important for contemporary parents. So I'm excited
S4: about our program today.
S3: Well, let me introduce our guest. Jill Garner is an author, speaker,
S3: founder of manners of the heart, a nonprofit reawakening Respect
S3: in our society for the sake of the next generation.
S3: She's written the award winning book, Raising Respectful Children in
S3: a Disrespectful World, as well as raising Unselfish Children in
S3: a Self-absorbed World. Her work is endorsed by focus on
S3: the family, Family Life Today, Doctor Kevin Leman, and many others,
S3: and our featured resource is her book Strong Heart Cultivating Humility,
S3: Respect and Resiliency in Your Child. Find out more at
S3: Building relationships.us.
S4: Well, Jill, welcome to Building Relationships.
S2: Thank you so much, Doctor Chapman. Glad to be here.
S4: Well, we're delighted to have you. You know, for those
S4: who are not familiar with your organization, let's begin by
S4: just telling us a little bit about matters of the heart.
S2: Well, it's near and dear to my heart, and it's
S2: most definitely my calling. Um, I was an interior designer
S2: by trade and degree many, many years ago, and I
S2: was doing an interview and the commentator said Jill thought
S2: that she was meant to be an interior designer of homes,
S2: but God intended her to be an interior designer of hearts. Mhm. Um,
S2: and somehow I think he was right. And that's really
S2: been my calling. And out of that I found it.
S2: Matters of the heart, which is a nonprofit organization, um,
S2: almost 22 years ago now. And our mission has been
S2: unchanging and all that time to reawaken respect in our
S2: society through the education of the hearts of children so
S2: that they can carry this into the next generation, carry
S2: respect once again, and carry it into the next generation.
S4: Well, it's so important, and I'm glad today we're going
S4: to touch on at least part of that mission for
S4: your organization. You know, there's a story you open the
S4: book with where you're speaking to a group of elementary
S4: school children making the leap to middle school. I think
S4: that story sets up what we're going to talk about today.
S4: So why don't you share that with us?
S2: Well, I was so honored to be asked to be
S2: a commencement speaker for a fifth grade graduating class at
S2: one of our members of the Hart Elementary schools a
S2: few years ago. And as I contemplated what I needed
S2: to say to these children and what they needed to
S2: hear and ask the Lord, you know what? What do
S2: they most need to know at this point in their lives?
S2: This idea of strong heart, really this vision of a
S2: strong heart character came to mind. And so I said, well, yes, sir,
S2: that'll do it. And so that morning, I took a
S2: whiteboard and I drew a heart on the center of
S2: the board and then turned it into a little character
S2: with a head and feet and arms and all. And
S2: I turned to the children and I said, you know,
S2: you really can teach this lesson today because your manners
S2: of the heart, kids, you've had manners of the heart
S2: now for five years. And I think you're going to
S2: know the answer to my question what is in the
S2: heart of a strong heart? And they had really not
S2: had that terminology of a strong heart at this point
S2: yet in the curriculum. And so I just threw it
S2: out there and hands went up and they started saying
S2: things like obedience and compassion and, um, respect and self-respect
S2: and forgiveness and these wonderful qualities. And this was a
S2: local public school and, um, all these amazing qualities. And
S2: in some ways I let them keep going. And you
S2: kind of found the fruit of the spirit even listed,
S2: even though the children weren't aware necessarily, you know, of
S2: what they were speaking. And I filled the heart with
S2: all those beautiful qualities. And then I turned to the
S2: kids and I said, so here's what you need to
S2: hear today. This is what your heart is full of today.
S2: And as you move into middle school, even some of
S2: your closest friends might take a wrong turn and start
S2: trying to break into that heart and fill it with
S2: the wrong stuff. And I want you to see what
S2: happens if you make those wrong decisions. So if you
S2: and I let them give me some scenarios which were
S2: mind boggling because they already knew the troubles they were
S2: going to face and that they were already facing. And
S2: I said, what if you said yes when you should
S2: have said no? Here's what happens. And I erased a
S2: piece of the outline of the heart. And I continue
S2: doing that until the outline of the heart was gone.
S2: And I said, so what's going to happen to all
S2: this good stuff? And they knew from their lessons. Well,
S2: the bad stuff comes in when the good stuff falls out.
S2: And so we replace love with hate. I replace respect
S2: with disrespect and continued until now, the heart of our
S2: strong heart was filled with horrible stuff. And so this
S2: was the the shattering part of this moment. So I said,
S2: so now take a look. Who is our strong heart become?
S2: And a little boy raised his hand and he said, oh,
S2: he's a murderer.
S4: Mhm.
S2: One of the little girls said oh she's really depressed.
S2: And it, it just as it struck you. Doctor Chapman,
S2: it hit me in the same way. And the parents
S2: and the educators present in the room to think fifth
S2: graders for one would have that level of emotional intelligence
S2: was quite astounding, as hard as it was to hear.
S2: They they really understood. And I said, you know what?
S2: You could be right. You could be right. And I said,
S2: so here's the really tough question. Whose fault is it?
S2: And I let it sit for a little while. And
S2: then the children started saying, oh, it's Strongheart's fault. Oh, oh,
S2: it's my fault. Oh, it's my fault. And they understood fully.
S2: They fully understood the idea of responsibility and accountability. Right? Yes.
S2: And so I said, all right, now what are we
S2: going to do to fix this? Now we have to
S2: understand this is public school. I couldn't go to the
S2: full cross to take them to the foot of the cross,
S2: because I wanted to stand up and say, right, we
S2: need Jesus in your heart, right? So how you know?
S2: So where could I take them to lead them in
S2: that direction? So I said, well, I said the what
S2: are we going to do to fix this? And one
S2: of the little girls said, we're going to remember our
S2: manners of the heart lessons. And I said, that's right.
S2: So next time when somebody says, are you going to
S2: do it, you're going to say, no, not me. And
S2: every time you do and you make those right choices,
S2: you start repairing your heart. And now that hate gets
S2: out and the love comes back in, the disrespect leaves
S2: and the respect comes back in. And as we repaired it,
S2: I continued drawing around and around the outline of the
S2: heart and I said, look what's happened now. Now it
S2: has become easier to do the right thing and make
S2: the right choice, and harder now to do the wrong
S2: thing because your heart's going to tell you, and now
S2: you're going to know, and now you will become a leader.
S2: You truly will become a strong heart.
S4: Yeah. Wow. Pretty powerful for fifth graders.
S2: Fifth graders.
S4: So now we know why you titled the book Strong Heart.
S4: How did you formulate this? This strong heart concept?
S2: Well, you know, I realized in that moment this really
S2: was the culmination of my 25 years of work with
S2: families and children. And it all came together in that moment,
S2: because our goal in any of the work we've done
S2: with children and parents is to help them build strong hearts.
S2: And strong hearts are morally courageous children who are fortified
S2: with self-respect and grounded in truth. Of course, God's word.
S2: Grounded in truth and a strong heart. As a kid
S2: who's going to be able to defend their faith and
S2: defeat their foes, even those foes within, those foes within
S2: and those foes without. Yeah.
S4: It's a pretty powerful concept. And if we can pull
S4: that off as parents, at least doing our part right,
S4: we're going to be setting them up for a lot
S4: of success, right?
S2: Yes, yes, if we protect and prepare. I always like
S2: to say that a parent's role is to protect their child,
S2: while at the same time prepare them. Sometimes we get
S2: off balance and we're too protective, right? And we're not
S2: spending time preparing them. And sometimes we work so hard
S2: to prepare them that we let the world come in
S2: too quickly and they're not ready yet. So we have
S2: to find that balance between protecting and preparing. Yeah.
S4: Jill, in today's culture, most parenting experts and mental health
S4: professionals offer advice on mindfulness and controlling our thoughts and
S4: helping children develop strong minds. Why the emphasis on the
S4: heart rather than the mind?
S2: I love this question because Scripture clearly tells us that
S2: it's the content of the heart whether it's good, whether
S2: it's bad, whether it's ugly, is the content of the
S2: heart that determines what a child will think, what a
S2: child will say, and what a child will do. We
S2: know that Scripture tells us that it's the good inside
S2: the heart, right that comes out. That's what where the
S2: words and the actions come from. Whether they're good or evil,
S2: it's dependent upon what is in the content of the heart.
S2: And so I really squirm to To be totally honest,
S2: I squirm when I hear the word mindfulness because it's
S2: Heartfulness is really where we should be focusing our attention,
S2: because it truly is the the heart that informs the mind.
S2: It's not the other way around. It's what's in the
S2: heart that's going to determine what's in the mind. Yeah.
S4: So out of the heart we speak, right? And we do. Yes.
S4: And we think, yeah, right.
S2: That proverbs that says, you know, so as a man
S2: thinketh in his heart. Do you use King James? So
S2: as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he.
S4: Yeah, right. Now, you mentioned self-respect in your definition of
S4: a strong heart. Not self-esteem. Uh, why do you go
S4: in a different direction than a lot of the culture?
S4: Who's super, super emphasizes self-esteem.
S2: Loaded question. Um, so I'm gonna come out with all
S2: cylinders firing on, firing on this one. So if we
S2: go back to the late 60s, early 70s, that's when
S2: self-esteem was given to us. It was formulated in the
S2: late 1800s. Um, and, uh, the word, the concept, which
S2: we've forgotten, it was just a concept. It was a theory.
S2: It was not a truthful statement in the beginning, but
S2: it was not truth. But that's where it was originally formed.
S2: But in the 1940s, it kind of sat in the, um,
S2: you know, in the clinical circles in the 60s is
S2: when it was brought forward. And the person you really
S2: can give credit for bringing it forward to the rest
S2: of us really was Carl Rogers. If you do the
S2: research and Carl Rogers is the grandfather of humanism. Well,
S2: that should have been a red flag to us as Christians.
S2: But somehow we missed it. Because the truth is, self-esteem
S2: is the same as the sin of pride in the
S2: Garden of Eden, the glory vanity of self, as we
S2: heard a lot of talk about in the 16 and 1700s.
S2: The difference is that we understood in the garden and
S2: we understood in the 1600s that it's a bad thing that,
S2: you know, the sin of pride got us in a
S2: lot of trouble. Vainglory is the glorifying of self. Neither
S2: of those make any sense. It's ever the thought of
S2: being good. And then though that same term, that same concept,
S2: or that that reality was reframed and called self-esteem. And
S2: this time we fell for it hook, line and sinker.
S2: But it's the same thing, the esteeming of self. Go
S2: back to Scripture. You're not going to find in Scripture
S2: where Scripture tells us to esteem ourselves. Scripture tells us
S2: quite the contrary to esteem God and to esteem others.
S2: And it's through that process that we gain respect for ourselves,
S2: which is what our children truly need. They don't need
S2: to esteem self. They need to to esteem others in
S2: God and respect themselves. And one other little caveat I'll
S2: throw in there. A lot of our generation is having
S2: difficulty with the next generation and that are raising our grandchildren.
S2: And we feel those those tugs and those struggles and, um,
S2: and a lot of that, I believe, has come from
S2: this cycle of respect that first, children learn respect by
S2: respecting parents. We then introduce them to God, hopefully through
S2: our love and our attention and our respect toward them.
S2: And then it's through that respect for God that they
S2: begin to turn outward and have respect for others, as
S2: Scripture tells them. And that process brings them to respect themselves.
S2: And that process begins again, and that cycle of respect continues.
S2: But if we have spent our time, which our generation
S2: was so guilty of buying into the self esteem notion,
S2: and we poured esteem into our children, well, they grew
S2: up with plenty of steam, but not enough of respect.
S4: What is the major difference between those two?
S2: The major difference between those two? I would say it
S2: would be self-centeredness, which is self esteem and others centeredness.
S2: Which is self respect. You know, if you think about
S2: how do we gain respect? We gain respect by first
S2: giving respect. So to develop self respect always must come first.
S2: Must come that focus on others not the focus on self. Yeah.
S3: Can I ask a question? Is that where the participation
S3: trophy thing first started? That everybody has to get a trophy?
S2: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. That's where all of that was
S2: born out of.
S3: And and so now we've seen it born out, you know,
S3: in a couple of generations with that, that the respect
S3: comes from playing hard and doing your best, not necessarily
S3: winning every game or winning all the championships are winning
S3: all the trophies or ribbons, either because the ribbons are
S3: in there. Um, but what has that done to us then,
S3: as to our kids and the culture?
S2: Well, in so many ways, it's keeping our children from
S2: becoming all God intended them to be. You know, when
S2: you think about Chariots of Fire and you think about
S2: Eric Liddell, who said, when I run, I feel God's pleasure,
S2: you know? Um, and he because he was running, because
S2: God had made him to run and to run fast
S2: as he told his sister. Right. And he it was
S2: in doing what God had created him to do and
S2: given him an ability to do that. He felt God's pleasure.
S2: And so often with this, um, self-esteem emphasis. Um, I'll
S2: give you I'll give you another way to look at
S2: it that goes along with this sports analogy. You know,
S2: if little Johnny comes off the baseball field today and
S2: he struck out twice and he missed the fly ball,
S2: if mama's worried about his To self-esteem. Mama's going to say, hush, Johnny.
S2: You listen to your mama. You're the best kid on
S2: the team. If every kid played like you, we'd never
S2: lose a game. Well, obviously there's something wrong with that, right?
S2: Johnny is going. Did she not see me? Was she
S2: not looking today? Oh, she was talking to her friends.
S2: I guess she wasn't paying attention to me. You know,
S2: she doesn't pay a lot of attention. She's not paying attention.
S2: Or she would know I bombed today. And when mom
S2: does that, he also knows she just lied to me.
S2: If every kid on the team played like I did today,
S2: we'd never win another game, right? And the child knows that.
S2: And so what happens when we give kids false praise,
S2: which is what we get caught up in with self esteem? Um,
S2: we're chipping away at their ambition because either they're thinking, well,
S2: somebody's going to tell me I'm great when I do
S2: nothing that participation trophy or someone is going to To
S2: help me, because maybe that really is the best that
S2: I'll ever do. So either way, they stop trying. Either way,
S2: we chip away at their ambition. The contrast of that.
S2: If mama was worried about self-respect when Johnny came off
S2: the field that day, she'd go, hush, boy. Johnny boy,
S2: we had a rough game today, huh? Man. Couldn't get
S2: hit that ball and the bat didn't connect your feet
S2: didn't get off the ground. Golly, what a rough game, son.
S2: I was sitting in those bleachers feeling your pain, but
S2: I got an idea. Maybe Friday we'll make those that famous.
S2: Those good cookies everybody loves that they talk about. And
S2: we'll get those boys over who figured this out and
S2: get out there and give them some cookies, and y'all
S2: get out there and work at it. Because I know
S2: if you keep working at it and we get the
S2: people to help you, I tell you what, I think
S2: you'll get it. What do you think, Johnny? Wow, what
S2: a difference, huh?
S4: Huge difference. I can imagine that their parents listening today
S4: who are hearing this, and it's hitting them in a
S4: way they've never heard it before. And so I think
S4: it's extremely important. Another aspect of your teaching is to
S4: move away from happiness toward joy. Tell us about that.
S2: Mm. Yeah. Um, give you an illustration. I love stories,
S2: I think you can see things. See things clearly in
S2: stories sometimes when I have identical twin sons, by the way.
S2: Far into manhood now, for sure. But when they were young,
S2: one of the boys wanted to play the drums. And so, um,
S2: I made him wait a while. Because you don't get
S2: everything you want when you want it, right? Gotta wait
S2: on it. And we waited a while, and he really
S2: was serious. And, um, so Christmas rolled around the next year,
S2: and I got him a drum set and he started playing,
S2: and it was awful. No rhythm. I was standing in
S2: front of him. Okay, son, here we go. One, on
S2: a two, a one, two, three, four. And it was terrible.
S2: He couldn't find any rhythm. And so I got a
S2: teacher and he was helping him working, and he he'd
S2: listened and he'd try to mimic what the teacher was
S2: doing with little tapes and things that he'd bring home.
S2: And after several and I'd sit and I'd encourage him.
S2: And I didn't tell him he was great because he wasn't. Uh,
S2: I encouraged him to keep going, keep working at it.
S2: Let's keep trying. Let's keep working. Keep trying. It's the trying,
S2: son that matters. We just don't. We're not going to
S2: give up. And so after a few months, I hear
S2: him in the room playing something, and, uh. Or I
S2: thought it actually, in the moment, it was the tape.
S2: It was so good. And I opened the door and
S2: it was my son. And he hand slammed his sticks
S2: down on the drum and he said, mom, I can
S2: feel it, son. I said, oh, son, mama feels it too.
S2: Rip it. He ripped it out. And here's my question.
S2: Was that a moment of happiness, or was that a
S2: moment of joy in my son? What do you think?
S3: I think it sounds like it was a joy for
S3: both of you.
S2: Absolutely, Chris. Absolutely. It was joy out the rooftops. Now,
S2: if I had told him from the get go. Right.
S2: You are so good. You are great. And had given
S2: him all that false praise in the world, right? Because
S2: I was worried about his moment to moment happiness. And
S2: all I was concerned about was keeping him happy in
S2: the moment. He would never have achieved that moment of joy. Mhm. Yeah.
S2: And that's what happens to us as parents when we
S2: buy into that notion that our goal in life is
S2: to keep our children happy and think of a Walmart
S2: moment with a child I love to most, most mamas
S2: immediately start chuckling if I say a Walmart moment because
S2: they know exactly what I'm talking about. Mama's coming into
S2: the finish line to get out of the store, and
S2: the child's in the buggy and the and they're having
S2: that discussion which is now become a total, you know, tantrum. Right.
S2: But I want but I want and mama's saying no.
S2: The child's saying yes. And they're having this horrible Walmart moment.
S2: And I've learned to step over because I care so
S2: much I don't I don't really care anymore. And I'll
S2: take what comes and I'll step over and said, oh,
S2: let me help you. Can I help you? Listen, stand
S2: firm mama. I'll stand here with you. Don't give in
S2: to this and I'll stand there with her. And I
S2: haven't had anyone slap me yet. I have. Some haven't
S2: been so welcoming, but they haven't slapped me. But I'll
S2: stand with them to try to keep them strong. But
S2: what does mama say to me? You know, and I'll say,
S2: don't give in. No, no. But you know. But I
S2: just want her to be happy, right? Yeah. And I'll say, no, no, no, no, no, no.
S2: You want her to be humble and you really want
S2: her to grow. To become holy is what you're really
S2: looking for, but not happy. Don't worry about being happy.
S2: That's not your job as a parent. And truly, we keep.
S2: We prevent our children from finding true joy because we
S2: masquerade it as this moment to moment. Keep them happy
S2: all the time.
S3: Don't you think? Part of that, as I'm listening to
S3: you talk about this, I remembering some of the mistakes
S3: I made as a parent in the past with my
S3: own kids, especially around, you know, birthdays and holidays and
S3: wanting them to be happy, you know, um, and it's
S3: and it stems from my own times when I didn't
S3: feel happy with the circumstance. And I don't want them
S3: to experience that or, or something like it in their
S3: own life. So I'm trying to protect them, but I'm
S3: really protecting myself. Is that where some of it stems from?
S2: Oh, I think so. You know, if if all of us,
S2: me included on the top of the list, I have
S2: a crooked nose from hitting myself in the nose so
S2: much and my toes are a mess from stepping on
S2: my feet all the time. So please don't anyone think
S2: I didn't mess up all the time. Oh my goodness,
S2: did I ever. And that's some. But but it is
S2: in those mess ups that we learn. Right. And that's
S2: so true for our children when we don't allow them
S2: to have those moments of disappointment and those moments of
S2: unhappiness and, and truly even those moments of failure. Um,
S2: if we don't allow that in their lives, how are
S2: they ever going to learn and grow and mature, just
S2: as we did in those tough moments? Because it's in
S2: those tough moments that we have to dig deeper and
S2: that we need. That's when a child needs mom and
S2: daddy to stand with them, not to walk away, certainly,
S2: but to stand with them and walk through those disappointments
S2: with them. But we must allow them, because if we don't,
S2: we really are stunning their growth. You know, uh, we
S2: want to think today that, you know, kids are growing
S2: up faster. That's so not true. I know Doctor Chapman
S2: from from your work. You agree with that? Um, kids
S2: aren't growing up faster. In fact, they're maturing at much
S2: slower rates today than ever before. And a lot of
S2: it has to do with this topic that we're discussing
S2: because someone made it their job to keep them happy
S2: all the time, and didn't allow them to have those
S2: disappointments from which they could grow and mature.
S4: Yeah. So important.
S1: Thanks for joining us today for building relationships with Doctor
S1: Gary Chapman. If you go to Building Relationships us, you'll
S1: find more ways to strengthen your relationships. If you'd like
S1: to hear today's conversation again or suggest it to a friend,
S1: go to Building relationships.us. You can also find today's resource
S1: right there Jill Garner's book, Strong Heart Cultivating Humility, Respect,
S1: and Resiliency in Your Child. Again, go to Building Relationships.
S1: Dot us.
S4: Jill. Talk about grit g r I t you say
S4: you want to develop this in your children. What does
S4: that stand for?
S2: Yes. So grit. Good old fashioned grit. Guts, resiliency, integrity
S2: and tenacity. Um, I decided late in life, at some
S2: point in my 40s, I guess. Well, close to closer
S2: to 50, that it was time to get in shape. And, uh,
S2: and I went to the gym and all and found
S2: this trainer who had this amazing European accent. He was
S2: this huge man who had been a world class weightlifter. There's,
S2: you know, in his career, and he was now well
S2: up in age and just continued to love on people
S2: and help them at the gym. And he would get
S2: down in my ear when he was trying to get
S2: me to do more reps. And he would say, where, where,
S2: where is your grit? I was like, what was that, Arnie?
S2: His name was Arnie. I said, I said what? Arnie?
S2: He said, grit. It takes grit. You must use your grit.
S2: And it has. It is so stuck with me because
S2: the moment at which he would choose to say that
S2: to me, it was that moment when I thought I
S2: knew I couldn't go any further. I thought I knew
S2: myself better than he knew me, but he actually knew
S2: me better than I knew myself, right? He he knew
S2: I was capable of more than I thought I was.
S2: And he in those moments that that was such a
S2: that was just something that has just stayed in my
S2: mind all these years. When I think about when I
S2: think about grit, and that's really why I chose to
S2: use grit, was thinking about Arnie and the way in
S2: which it was such, such an incentive and such an
S2: inspiration to me to keep going because I recognized, wait,
S2: he knows something about me. He sees something in me
S2: that I don't see. And that's what we should be
S2: doing as parents, right? We see into the hearts of
S2: our children, and that truly is one of my top
S2: ten daily prayers I love to offer to parents is
S2: to always pray. Lord, help me to see you know
S2: with your eyes into the heart of my child. Help
S2: me to see what's there that might not be revealing
S2: itself outwardly in the moment. Help me to see deep inside.
S2: And so if we're going to really help our children
S2: become strong cards, we have to help them develop guts, resiliency,
S2: integrity and tenacity. And I'll give you just a 1
S2: or 2 little sentence quickie on each one of those
S2: for for the listeners today, if we're helping our children
S2: develop guts, what I mean by that is that is
S2: simply trying. That is the ability to say, I'm going
S2: to try again, um, in a high school program that
S2: we that we did for several years, I would always
S2: tell the kids up front, those high school students when
S2: I would ask the first question, or I'd say, I
S2: need a volunteer to come up and help, and of course,
S2: dead silence in the room, right? Nobody would raise their hand.
S2: Nobody would move. And I would say, you know what
S2: I found in these years of working with you teenagers?
S2: The first one to respond and offer to volunteer when
S2: no one else is volunteering. That's the kid who's going
S2: to go far in life. And of course, you know,
S2: 25 hands in the room suddenly would go up, right?
S2: Those hands would go straight up. That's what I mean
S2: by guts having the guts, the willingness to try, you know,
S2: having raising our kids with that willingness to try. Because
S2: whether you and I would go on and tell those
S2: teens whether you succeed or whether you fail in this
S2: moment really isn't the issue. The issue is you were
S2: the one willing to stand up and try. You win
S2: just because you're willing to stand up and try. You've
S2: made a step forward. That's guts. Resiliency. So that's even
S2: a bigger part of the book. Um, and this resiliency is,
S2: you know, the old, um, the old Weebles remember old
S2: weebles that toy, the weebles wobble, but they.
S3: Don't fall down.
S2: Right? That's what we want to see with our children.
S2: We want to raise this generation of strong weebles. Right. Uh, who?
S2: They wobble and they're going to get hit. They're going
S2: to get hit by life. They're going to get hit
S2: by friends. They're going to get hit by circumstances, right?
S2: They're going to hit by their own poor choices. But
S2: we want to make sure when they fall over they
S2: don't stay down, that they get back up. Right. And
S2: that's resiliency. And of course that resiliency comes through hope.
S2: You know, one of those side notes here is, you know,
S2: don't ever let your kid come in and go in
S2: their room and close the door and come out for
S2: supper and go back in. Well, no no no no no, don't.
S2: We always had a open door policy at our house.
S2: The boys had when they needed their time. They had their,
S2: of course, their, you know, quiet personal time. But as
S2: a rule, we had an open door policy because we
S2: I was not going to allow them, um, to get
S2: off to themselves and get lost in themselves, because when
S2: they get lost in themselves is when they can't see
S2: the hope, they can't see the hopefulness, they can't see
S2: the way, their way out of situations when we allow
S2: them to get lost in themselves and integrity. Of course, integrity,
S2: the whole thing of doing the right thing when no
S2: one's looking right. But it's even so much more than that. Um, integrity.
S2: The root of the word is integral, which really means
S2: having that strong, firm foundation so that whatever happens and
S2: the world crumbles around them, that they don't crumble because
S2: they have such an integrated personality and they're they're a whole,
S2: complete person. And so they're going to do the right
S2: thing no matter what, even in the difficult moments when
S2: it's easier to go along with the crowd, they're going
S2: to be the one because of their integrity. Who doesn't
S2: go along with the crowd turns their back on, the
S2: crowd turns the other direction. And you know what happens
S2: when they look over their shoulder? There's going to be
S2: another kid who's going to follow them, because everybody's just
S2: looking for someone to be the leader. And so that
S2: kid with integrity is the one who turns away and
S2: then becomes the leader, because others will follow in their
S2: steps and tenacity. Oh, goodness. Back to back to Arnie.
S2: We'll come full circle. Right. That great. Where is your grit? Right.
S2: That is tenacity. That's that. Not stopping. Not giving up
S2: no matter what. Trying. Trying and trying again. Um, when
S2: I wrote my first book, someone said, you know, Jill,
S2: you got to get 30 no's before you finally get
S2: a yes. And when you're, you know, when you're trying
S2: to get a publisher or something like that, and I
S2: would come to the mailbox and my neighbors would see me,
S2: and I'd see a letter and I'd rip it open
S2: and I'd go, yes, oh yes. And they'd go, Jill.
S2: They'd holler over Jill. Oh, did you get it? No,
S2: no I didn't. It's another rejection. I'm one step closer.
S2: You know. That's tenacity.
S4: That's great. That's great. Well, I had I had four
S4: refusals on my first book.
S2: So yeah, we've been there. We've all been there. If
S2: you've tried, you've been there. Right.
S4: That's correct. That's absolutely right. Now you've combined two words
S4: that are typically considered opposites humility and confidence. What does
S4: humble confidence look like?
S2: Um, uh, don't you love putting those two words together?
S2: I love putting opposites together. Um, just like in relationships, uh,
S2: that humble, that humble confidence. Uh, so let's go to Scripture. Moses, uh,
S2: Scripture tells us that Moses was the, most humble man
S2: on earth. Well, when you think about Moses, you don't
S2: necessarily think of humility as we think of humility in
S2: modern day terms. So often humility is almost gotten a
S2: bad rep. You know, today, like that, mama who said,
S2: I want my child to be happy and I want
S2: to tell her, no, you really want to raise a
S2: child to be humble because a child who's humble is
S2: a child who has the greatest confidence. So what do
S2: I mean by that? Moses stepped into his God given
S2: place of authority. Not for Moses. He did it for
S2: the good of his people. Right. Uh, when he accepted
S2: his call, it was for the good of his people.
S2: He understood that it's not about me. It's about God's
S2: calling in my life so that we talk a lot about.
S2: So that's it. Matters of the heart. So? So that
S2: is how you judge your motive. I'm going to do
S2: this so that this is the outcome. So it's a
S2: way to check your motives. So and especially when it
S2: comes to humble confidence, I'm going to do this, take
S2: this action so that others can learn the lesson that
S2: I learned the hard way, and maybe I can make
S2: it easier for them. That's humble confidence. It's when it's
S2: not about you. It's about taking what you've learned, taking
S2: what you've mastered, working hard to to really become all
S2: God created you to be. Step into that place of
S2: authority he's given you. But the so that is what
S2: makes the difference. It's the motive behind it. It's not
S2: so that the bright light shines on me and the
S2: world says, well, look how smart he is, boy. He
S2: knows it all. He's something else. No, it's so in
S2: the bright light shines. You step out of the way.
S2: So the light shines behind you. And you have the
S2: great satisfaction and privilege of helping someone else. Now learn
S2: what God has taught you. That's humble confidence. When it's
S2: not about you, but it's about the calling. And I'll
S2: just mention, I love the thought that God's calling in
S2: our lives, God in our calling, is truly God calling
S2: out what he placed in us when he created us.
S2: Our calling is when God says, it's time to use
S2: all that I put in you when I created you,
S2: the time is now for you to pull it out.
S2: Use it fully for the good of the kingdom. Blessed
S2: to be a blessing. That's humble confidence.
S4: A Christian parent, I would think, would have an advantage
S4: because we have that concept, you know, of Christ who
S4: humbled himself, became a man. And when he got on
S4: level ground with us, he humbled himself further to death
S4: on a cross, all for the benefit of others. You know, Jill,
S4: talk to parents of young teenagers who are struggling. You
S4: share a story, for example, of a 13 year old
S4: girl who was getting off track and how her parents responded.
S4: Say a word about that to them.
S2: Mm. This was a tough story that has that does
S2: have a good ending. But I was helping parents with
S2: their 12 year old daughter, and she was starting to
S2: have some different kind of behaviors. Her attitude was changing.
S2: And at first I was trying to encourage them that,
S2: you know, your daughter is at that age, that's that age,
S2: and it's so scripturally correct. On that age of accountability
S2: where she's now trying to decide, am I going to
S2: believe what my parents have taught me? Is this really
S2: going to be for me? Is this my faith? Is
S2: this my belief system as she's moving into teenage hood?
S2: And I thought that's, you know, that's the struggle that
S2: you're feeling. Well, after a few months, it became evident
S2: it was much more serious than that. And this was
S2: not that phase of life, that season of life. There
S2: was something wrong. Something had really was going wrong. And
S2: we went to see Christian Counselor and started doing some
S2: deep dive looking into, you know, where did all this
S2: come from? And through that process, we did the most
S2: interesting assessment of that child's life. And we looked back
S2: at her upbringing and the parents, um, looked at really
S2: how their time had been spent as a parent in
S2: raising her. What had the actions been and what just
S2: what did it had it look like? Almost kind of
S2: like their parenting style. And they came up with this
S2: kind of odd percentage that's going to be startling. They
S2: recognize that 90% of her upbringing had been spent in
S2: entertainment and in entertaining her, and kind of goes back
S2: to that happiness, joy a little bit. And 10%, only 10%
S2: had been in intentionally training her And these are Christian parents.
S2: And you know, they felt, you know, gosh, we do it.
S2: We're a close family. We do things together. And, you know,
S2: we're always on the go. And we we spend time together.
S2: We're intentional about that. And, you know, how could how
S2: could she have gotten us so off track. But what
S2: they recognized in a hard, tough way. But fortunately it
S2: was not too late by any stretch. They had not
S2: spent the time intentionally training her. They had not had
S2: regular times of of of devotional times. They had not truly,
S2: truly made Christ the center of their home and God's
S2: Word as the center of their home. They had. She
S2: kept her happy, they kept her happy, and she had
S2: moved along. And she wasn't was an easy kid, you know,
S2: hadn't had much troubles and easy, pretty obedient and stuff.
S2: But when it came time for her to step in
S2: toward adulthood, which, you know, before we came up with
S2: the notion of teenage hood, there was no such thing
S2: in Scripture. We went from being a child to being
S2: an adult. When she hit that stage of life, she
S2: didn't have anything to fall back on. She was not
S2: grounded and she was not rooted. She didn't know what
S2: she believed because they had not spent that time to
S2: pour into her and make sure she knew the values
S2: and truly a deep belief system.
S5: Mhm.
S4: I think there had to be a shock to the parents.
S2: It was it was a shock because they, they felt
S2: they had been doing a good job, you know, and
S2: in some ways they had you know, but um, but
S2: they had again, they had just gotten off track and
S2: I guess kind of gotten on the wrong train.
S4: So were they able at that juncture to make changes?
S4: How did it turn out?
S2: They were they were able to make changes. They they
S2: were very able to make changes, but partly because of
S2: the relationship that had been established to that point, and
S2: they were able to begin turning things back around. They
S2: backed away from so many activities, brought her back down
S2: to having one major focus that next semester, rather than
S2: 3 or 4. Um, they cut out so much of
S2: the busyness and the activities in their lives as well.
S2: And she had a brother who was doing just fine.
S2: He was a little younger, and they came back to
S2: true family time. Not busy time, you know, but family
S2: time where they had long conversations and they had gotten
S2: away from having dinner at the table that had come
S2: by the wayside in the busyness. They came back to
S2: kind of the basics and just pulled back in. Their
S2: whole lifestyle really made a tremendous lifestyle change and the
S2: changes that it made in their child and their daughter,
S2: it was just astounding to see. And they hit it
S2: just such a critical juncture that 12 to 13 age,
S2: because as you're well aware of the Barna research, um,
S2: you know, a child's worldview begins to be established at two.
S2: By ten, it's set in place, and by 13 it's
S2: pretty much written in stone. And so they had that window.
S2: They were just at that window of time where they
S2: could kind of reframe her perspective and really, really reframe
S2: the whole family's perspective on what it really meant to
S2: be a family. And what did it really mean to
S2: train up a child rather than entertain their child?
S5: Yeah.
S4: For those parents who are out there and their teenager
S4: is moving in a wrong direction, is it too late
S4: ever to make pretty radical changes?
S2: It's it's truly not. I don't believe it's I don't
S2: believe it's ever too late, because, I mean, Scripture tells
S2: us God never. God doesn't give up on us. And
S2: so I don't think it's ever too late. But the
S2: hard part about it is in today's world, I think
S2: Chris mentioned something earlier in the in the interview that
S2: this is now really that second generation that's been fully
S2: immersed in self-esteem. And so we have a generation who
S2: knows no other than self-esteem raising now this third generation.
S2: And so it's incredibly difficult to make this swap because
S2: they will find themselves being completely countercultural. Um, but so it's,
S2: it's I'm not saying it's easy. It's a hard thing.
S2: But the freedom that is found, I can and so
S2: many parents are running through my mind right now, over
S2: 25 years here, parents who have made that decision and
S2: made radical changes, um, I don't know. I don't know
S2: of a one that I've helped or have been privileged
S2: to walk through it with them through the years, um,
S2: that have ever regretted it, uh, ever regretted it. But
S2: it is totally countercultural. But the freedom that is found
S2: in it. Oh it's true. I just want to tell everybody,
S2: try it. Cut out some of that stuff. Try it today.
S2: Work on it this next semester.
S5: You know.
S2: Have a different Christmas this year. You know. Yeah.
S4: You use the term in the book Persuasive parenting. Say
S4: just a word about what you mean by that.
S2: Mhm. Yeah. Rubies are a fine, fine gem. That's they're
S2: actually rarer than diamonds. And they are much more difficult
S2: to extrude from the ground. It takes tremendous heat, tremendous
S2: pressure to dig deep and to pull them, get them
S2: out of the ground so that that beautiful gemstone that's
S2: beneath all that can be revealed. And that's what I
S2: mean by persuasive pressure. I'll give you a scripture on that.
S2: The heart of the wise makes his speech judicious and
S2: adds persuasiveness to his lips. It's from Proverbs 1623. That's,
S2: to me the foundation of persuasive pressure when we use
S2: persuasion with our kids. Persuasive pressure, what we're really doing
S2: is we are using our wisdom and our speech in
S2: a wise way that enables them to come out of
S2: wrong behaviors. And we use discipline, not punishment, training not
S2: punishment in order to help reform kind of their their behaviors.
S2: And it's I call it persuasive pressure.
S5: Yeah.
S4: Well, there's so much more in the book. Of course,
S4: that is exciting. And the closing pages of the book,
S4: you share a prayer that you begin to pray 25
S4: years ago. Can you share that with our listeners?
S2: That would really be an honor. Um, my husband and
S2: I put on, we call it the Armor Prayer. Um,
S2: we put it on every morning now for our grandchildren,
S2: and I really encourage parents to do it. In fact,
S2: everywhere I speak now, I kind of put out this challenge.
S2: Just imagine if we prayed this prayer every morning all
S2: over America, if parents and grandparents were putting on their
S2: armor every morning for the sake of those children and
S2: those grandchildren, we we really could revolutionize our society and
S2: maybe call out and bring out the next great revival,
S2: which is what our society so needs. So I encourage
S2: you to embrace your spouse as you pray the prayer.
S2: As my husband and I do every morning, we embrace
S2: and we use a singular plural kind of pronoun in
S2: there because as Scripture tells us, the two have become one.
S2: So we say, father, place upon our head the helmet
S2: of salvation, because the two have become one. I want
S2: to encourage any listeners who might be single parents. When
S2: God first gave me this scripture many years ago, I
S2: found myself in that position and I was raising those
S2: twin sons on my own because my husband had had
S2: walked away from us when they were 12 and God
S2: gave me. That's out of that time is when he
S2: gave me this prayer as armor. So you can certainly
S2: pray it as a single mom or a single dad.
S2: That father place upon my head the helmet of salvation.
S2: So for today, I want to pray it as the
S2: as a couple would pray, father, place upon our head
S2: the helmet of salvation to protect our mind. Place upon
S2: our chest the breastplate of righteousness to protect our heart. Father,
S2: wrap around us the belt of truth, that we would
S2: know the truth and speak the truth, that we would
S2: not be deceived, nor would we deceive. Father will carry
S2: the sword of the spirit. Your word, as an offensive weapon.
S2: Enable us to walk in the path of peace you
S2: laid before us this day, not stepping to the left
S2: or to the right, but walking in its narrow way
S2: with the Holy Spirit dwelling within us, with Jesus Christ,
S2: our brother, standing with us and with you, the Lord
S2: God Almighty, empowering us. We will stand and hold the
S2: shield of faith this day. And for us. We say
S2: for Garrett and Allie and Jack and Austin and Kate
S2: and Addison and Elliot and you would name your children,
S2: or your grandchildren will carry the shield of faith this
S2: day until each can carry it in their own faith.
S2: In Jesus name.
S4: Amen. Amen. Well, Jill, thanks for sharing that. And again,
S4: there's so much more in the book. I want to
S4: encourage our listeners to get the book. If you're a parent,
S4: you're going to find this book to be extremely, extremely helpful.
S4: So thanks for being with us today, Jill.
S2: Thank you. Thank you so much, Doctor Chapman. It's been
S2: my honor. Thank you.
S3: What a refreshing parenting conversation with Jill Garner today, the
S3: author of our featured resource at Building relationships us. The
S3: book Strongheart Cultivating Humility, respect and Resiliency in your child
S3: and you'll find that prayer right there in the book.
S3: Just go to building relationships.us.
S4: And next week it's time for your questions and comments.
S1: Don't miss our October edition of Dear Gary. Call and
S1: leave your message right now at 1866424. Gary, again, ask
S1: your relationship question or make a comment at 1866424. Gary,
S1: a big thank you to our production team. Steve Wick
S1: and Janice. Backing building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is
S1: a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers,
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.