S1: That's what I mean by easier. How can we take
S1: this thing called marriage and take kind of the sting
S1: out of it? How can we make things not so
S1: difficult to have a conversation, maybe, or to have date night?
S1: You know, what are things we can do that are
S1: rhythms that we just start doing, and it's not so
S1: hard anymore.
S2: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S2: the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Is
S2: it possible to love your spouse for a lifetime? Is
S2: it possible to just like your spouse for a lifetime
S2: if that feels like an unattainable goal? We have some
S2: help and hope for you today.
S3: Author and Speaker Arlene Pelikan is going to join us
S3: straight ahead in just in time for Valentine's Day. She's
S3: been working on her latest book for more than 25 years,
S3: because that's how long she and her husband, James, have
S3: been married. Her goal is to make marriage easier, and
S3: you'll find out what that means today go to building relationships.
S3: You'll see Arlene's book right there, Making Marriage Easier. And Gary,
S3: that goes right along with your ministry through the years
S3: with the Five Love Languages and the other books that
S3: you've written.
S4: Yeah, that's what I've tried to do through the years,
S4: but I'm really glad that Arlene is joining in the
S4: marriage event here. You know, she's written a lot about
S4: children and relationships with children. She and I have written
S4: some books together, but I am really glad to have
S4: her on the program today. I think our audience is
S4: going to really enjoy this and find it very helpful.
S3: Well, Arlene is a speaker, the author of a number
S3: of books, as Gary just mentioned, host of the Happy
S3: Home Podcast. She's a spokesperson for National Marriage Week as well.
S3: We've talked about 31 days to a happy husband growing up,
S3: social screen kids and parents rising. If you go to
S3: building relationships us, her latest is right there Making Marriage
S3: Easier how to Love and Like your Spouse for life.
S3: Just go to building relationships. relationships.us.
S4: Well, Arlene, welcome back to Building Relationships.
S1: It's so wonderful to be back. Thank you so much
S1: for having me.
S4: Well, let's talk about the why of this book. It
S4: seems to me you want to share some hope for
S4: those who are thinking about marriage, and also those that
S4: are already married and maybe struggling. Is that true?
S1: Yeah. I have two college aged students and students, children
S1: and a high schooler. And I see that many of
S1: these like 20 somethings, 30 somethings that I'm meeting, they're like, ah,
S1: I don't I don't know if I'm going to get married. Like,
S1: I don't really want to get married. That looks really hard.
S1: And and so I'm kind of a little bit alarmed
S1: because I see this from good, solid Christian homes. Right.
S1: Who had a very positive view of marriage. And then
S1: I'm thinking like, why don't you want to get married?
S1: So the book partially is for younger people to say,
S1: wait a minute, this marriage thing sounds awesome. I want
S1: to do this. So how can we make that easier
S1: for them, more attainable, something that they want. And then
S1: for those of us who are already married, you know
S1: that we hear things like, oh, it's so hard. It's
S1: so difficult. He's so ornery, she's so insensitive and unresponsive.
S1: You know, you hear all these things. So just in
S1: the same way, when we know we have to do something,
S1: we think to ourselves, well, how do I make this easier?
S1: You know, that's just how we are. How can we
S1: make cooking easier? It's like, oh, we have all these things.
S1: We get the all the food in the box, and
S1: then we prepared ourselves. So for me, what I want
S1: to do for this book is like, you know, here's
S1: your marriage in a box, so to speak. Let's make
S1: it easier for you. Not easy because it's going to
S1: require effort, but easier.
S4: Yeah. Well, you describe in the book early on a
S4: backpacking trip that you made with your family. What lessons
S4: did you learn from that experience?
S1: Yeah. So. So right off the gate, right out of
S1: the gate, it's like, okay, you're a hiker and a
S1: camper kind of person, and I'm like a lodge and
S1: a sit by the fire kind of person. And I
S1: think most couples are kind of like that. So this
S1: was a little bit a lot of bit of, of
S1: give for me to say, okay, I will go in
S1: the wilderness with a £25 backpack with everything I need
S1: just on my back for three days. I will go
S1: to the bathroom in the wild, like I will do
S1: this to show my love, right? So when and this was,
S1: you know, near Mammoth Lakes in California, it was spectacularly beautiful,
S1: you know. So I get that. And we're making these
S1: beautiful memories with our three children. Everyone is ecstatic, pretty much,
S1: except me. So. So we're walking, and when it's beautiful
S1: and doable, I was like, this is fantastic. I am
S1: going to do this again. You can sign me up
S1: next year. I will join you. But when it was
S1: uphill for like two hours and I'm just struggling with
S1: that pack on my back, or when we got to
S1: a patch of snow and it's like, wait a minute,
S1: I don't think we can pass this. We need to
S1: find a different way. You know, when we were in
S1: those kinds of moments, I'm like, oh no, I've done
S1: my due diligence. I came the one time I am
S1: not doing this again. And it reminded me as I'm walking.
S1: You know, I was I was working on this book
S1: Making Marriage easier as I'm on this hike and I
S1: it reminded me so much like, wow, this is like marriage.
S1: Like when it's beautiful vistas and not that much effort.
S1: It's like, yeah, I love marriage. Marriage is great. But
S1: when it's, wow, we've got financial difficulties, we're having trouble
S1: in the bedroom. We hardly talk anymore. Like, why are
S1: you on my case all the time? Then you're like,
S1: maybe this was the wrong journey. Maybe. Maybe we should
S1: call it quits, you know? So it is this idea
S1: of you can look just like I saw the trail
S1: map and I could see, like, oh, yeah, this is
S1: going to be difficult. I could see the little dotted
S1: lines going up and down, right. The elevation. But until
S1: you're actually there, you don't really know what how difficult
S1: it's going to be. But in that moment you have
S1: to decide, I am going to finish this loop like
S1: I am going to get to the end, I will,
S1: I will see this through. I remember on the trip
S1: I said to James, if I could pay someone $5,000
S1: to airlift me out of this spot. I actually, I
S1: actually think I would, but, you know, marriage is not
S1: like that. You cannot pay to get out. You know,
S1: you have to say like, hey, I started this, I
S1: made this vow, I'm going to finish it. And just
S1: having that mindset of, hey, this is what I chose.
S1: It's going to have highs, it's going to have lows,
S1: and I'm going to go through it all. That makes
S1: marriage easier because then you're not always thinking, how do
S1: I get out? You know, what can I do?
S4: Yeah, yeah. Well, talk about that word easier. That's that's
S4: part of the title. Yeah, yeah. So what do you
S4: mean by easier?
S1: You know, when you make that decision like I'm going
S1: to get healthier. So I'm going to go to the
S1: gym and I'm going to. So I get by my
S1: gym membership. But then you never go right. It's like,
S1: oh that was fun. I went for two weeks and
S1: then I never go. So I might make that easier
S1: by saying, I will go to a specific class once
S1: a week, and then I might have a friend meet
S1: me at that specific class, and we might make a
S1: bet that if you don't show up to the class,
S1: you owe me the next lunch and then I'll put
S1: my shoes. If I'm a woman, I'll put my shoes
S1: and my little outfit, you know, out right next to
S1: my bed so that I know what to do. And
S1: what have I done? I've made it easier. I've made
S1: it like, okay, now I'm actually going to go because
S1: my clothes are set. The decisions have been made. There's
S1: something that will happen to me if I don't do it,
S1: and I can't let this person down that I'm meeting.
S1: And so that's what I mean by easier how can
S1: we take this thing called marriage and take kind of
S1: the sting out of it? How can we make things
S1: not so difficult to have a conversation, maybe, or to
S1: have date night, you know, what are things we can
S1: do that are rhythms that we just start doing and
S1: it's not so hard anymore?
S4: Yeah, well, I think those who will read the book
S4: are going to find that it's true. It can be easier.
S1: Yes.
S4: Now, for those listening who are struggling in their marriage,
S4: Valentine's day is coming up and they don't really feel
S4: love for their spouse. I remember when I was there,
S4: way back in my marriage. What do you say to them?
S1: First, I'm sorry that you're in that spot. It's a
S1: hard spot. I think it starts with that prayer. Lord,
S1: I've made this commitment to my spouse. Helped me to
S1: see my spouse like you see them. Help me to
S1: want to serve my spouse. Help me to want to
S1: reach out to them and not give up. You know,
S1: so start there and then just think about, you know,
S1: there are many times we don't want to go to work.
S1: We don't feel like going to work, but we go.
S1: There are times where I don't feel like doing laundry,
S1: but I do it. You know, there are a lot
S1: of things in life that we do, even if we
S1: don't feel it. I think of even at worship, at church,
S1: if you're to sing but you don't feel like singing
S1: that particular morning. But guess what? When you decide I
S1: will sing, I will praise like I'm going to do that.
S1: Those feelings follow. Like you start singing praise to God.
S1: You start thanking him for he is good and his
S1: love endures forever. Those feelings then will follow. And it
S1: is the same in your marriage that when you think, okay,
S1: I don't feel like loving you, but I will act
S1: in a loving way, right? I will act kindly. I
S1: will act with service. Then not long thereafter, I think
S1: those feelings will follow. So don't pursue the feeling or
S1: use the feeling as a barometer because they are. Feelings
S1: will lie to us. Our feelings, you know, they can say,
S1: you know, oh, he's so difficult. He never, you know,
S1: he never notices you. And you start listening to those
S1: feelings and you get kind of in a huff. But
S1: if you say to yourself, no, no, no, no, wait,
S1: what is the truth of this matter? Hey, I made
S1: a commitment. I'm going to look for what's good, and
S1: those feelings will follow.
S4: Earlier in the book, you made four decisions with your husband, James,
S4: that have made marriage easier for you. Can you tell
S4: us what those four decisions were?
S1: Yeah. And these work, whether you're newlyweds or you've been
S1: married for 50 years. The decision. Number one, play by
S1: the The rules pre-decide what you will do and what
S1: you won't do. So this is again like we were
S1: talking about earlier. Don't follow feelings. Follow the commands of God.
S1: So you know, in the Bible, the Psalm one tells
S1: us that blessed is the one who delights in the
S1: law of the Lord. So it's like, I love these
S1: rules because these rules bring me life. So that's the
S1: idea here. Like there are rules to marriage and they're
S1: found in God's word. And if you love to follow them,
S1: you're going to do really well. So what decision one
S1: play by the rules. Decision two give thanks every day.
S1: So every day you're finding something in your marriage to
S1: be thankful for. You're saying thank you God for my spouse.
S1: Thank you that you're with us. So it is just
S1: this attitude in your home that is rooted in gratefulness,
S1: in gratitude, and not in, you know, complaining and wishing
S1: you had someone else's life. Decision number three serve your spouse.
S1: And I use you and Carolyn in the book Gary
S1: here that how can you serve your spouse? And how
S1: can you say, what can I do for you? Instead of, well,
S1: what have you done for me lately? Because those are
S1: two very different people to live with. And then decision
S1: number four is take fun seriously. You know, when you
S1: were dating and falling in love, it was all about fun.
S1: And then you get the mortgage, you get the kids,
S1: you get work, you get you're on the internet all
S1: the time, and all of a sudden everything is so
S1: serious and nothing is fun. And you stop having fun
S1: together and you think that that's just an extra that
S1: you can't afford. Well, I'm here to tell you, you
S1: can't afford not to have fun, because it is the
S1: fun that brought you together and helps you keep together.
S4: Yeah, yeah. Okay, I want to go back to that
S4: first one. Play by the rules. In that section, you
S4: describe what you call the Power hour. What is the
S4: Power hour?
S1: This one. You guys are going to love this because
S1: it involves eating. We love eating, right. So the Power
S1: Hour is having meals Together. And I'm sure, Doctor Chapman,
S1: that this was something that people did without having need,
S1: without even having to bring it up. Right? People used
S1: to eat together. But now if you ask people, you know,
S1: think about it for your own home. Think of it
S1: for your friends. How many meals a week do you
S1: guys eat together? A lot of people will say like, oh,
S1: you know, just a few, because usually we just grab
S1: our food and then everybody goes into their own rooms
S1: and does their homework or watches, sports or whatever it is. Right?
S1: So this Power Hour is the rhythm of eating together
S1: with your spouse every single day. Now, I know people
S1: are going to say, wait a minute, that's legalistic. Or
S1: you know what? If I'm hungry, you mean I have
S1: to wait for my spouse to come home? So this
S1: is it. We never signed on the dotted line. Thou
S1: may not eat until I get here, you know, but
S1: it's just the rhythm of, hey, we normally eat dinner together,
S1: you know, obviously if you're out of town, you can't
S1: do that if you're separate. Obviously, I get that. But
S1: we will eat together. We'll wait for each other if
S1: it's reasonable. You know, in our home, it's kind of
S1: like if it's after 7:00, it's like, okay, sorry, buddy,
S1: we got to eat. But it's it's something, a rhythm
S1: that this is normal. It would feel abnormal if we
S1: didn't sit down and eat together. This could be dinner.
S1: This could be, you know, maybe you're very busy in the,
S1: in the on the evening. So you have to actually
S1: schedule a lunch date with your, with your spouse. That's okay.
S1: That's what you used to do when you're dating. Maybe
S1: it just looks like drinking your coffee together in the morning,
S1: but it is this idea that every single day we
S1: will connect over some kind of food, right? Or coffee
S1: because it gives you then, like friendship, you need friendship
S1: and companionship. And if you don't have space for that,
S1: then everyone gets busy. And then that's why you feel like, well,
S1: we don't even hardly know each other anymore. So start
S1: with that power hour. I thought about it. We've been
S1: married over 25 years. We've pretty much eaten a meal
S1: every day together since we said I do. So I thought,
S1: that is that is like 10,000 meals together. So you
S1: think to yourself, wait a minute, if I have 10,000
S1: meals with someone, I'm going to be pretty close to them.
S1: So eat together.
S4: And I know you would also say, don't answer your
S4: cell phone while you're eating even.
S1: Don't even have it on the table. Put it away
S1: so you don't even see it. That's exactly right.
S4: You know, I could not agree more with this. It's
S4: just powerful. And you know, when the kids come along,
S4: then you're eating with the kids and you're and your spouse. Yeah,
S4: and we did that through all those years. Our kids
S4: are grown now. Of course, they look back and say,
S4: those are one of the fondest memories we have sitting
S4: around the table talking about life together, you know, sharing
S4: life together. So great for the marriage, great for the kids.
S1: Yes.
S4: Now you also deal with sexual intimacy in this section.
S4: You know, I'm often asked the question, how much sex
S4: is normal or healthy for a couple? I don't know
S4: how you answer that or if you answer that, but
S4: So give us some thoughts along those lines.
S1: Do you believe it or not? You will find this
S1: in the book. But I I've, I've, I'm leaning on
S1: the research of Doctor Michael. And Shante Felton on this one.
S1: But the chapter is called but we had sex last Tuesday,
S1: you know, because for usually it's the woman. It doesn't
S1: always have to be. But for the woman, it's kind
S1: of like, well, wait, we did that like a long
S1: time ago. Isn't that enough? And then for the husband,
S1: he's thinking like, well, no, this is something that I
S1: want to do to connect with, you know, it's not enough. So,
S1: you know, that has definitely been something through the years.
S1: And I think a lot of people can relate to
S1: that is okay. One person wants a certain amount and
S1: the other person wants a certain amount. How do you
S1: kind of meet in the middle and how much is normal?
S1: So what they found in terms of research of what
S1: was normal is their researchers found that four times every
S1: three weeks was normal. I know some of you were like, oh, phew,
S1: it's not four times every week. Okay, great. Four times
S1: every three weeks. So they said one and one third
S1: time basically per week. And they also were quick to say, though,
S1: that's what is normal. It's what people are doing. It
S1: doesn't mean that that's the ideal. It's just kind of
S1: what people are doing. But they did find that 94%
S1: of those who said, hey, we are happy and satisfied
S1: with our sexual relationship. 94% of those people said they
S1: were also happy in their marriages, which which follows, like
S1: if you're having healthy physical intimacy, it lends to that
S1: you have a healthy marriage. And they also said that
S1: people who couples who had sex one time a week
S1: or more were satisfied. So these are, you know, these
S1: are things that you can look at like, okay, my goodness,
S1: maybe it's been too long. And my husband and I,
S1: we need to put, you know, I think it was
S1: Doctor David Clark who said, if you're a couple with
S1: children and you do not schedule your sex, you do
S1: not have sex, right? So sometimes in some parts of
S1: your time, of the season of life you're in, you
S1: have to put it in the calendar and not feel
S1: unromantic about that, but feel like, okay, our relationship is important,
S1: so I'm going to make time for this.
S4: Yeah, no question about it. The sexual part of the
S4: marriage is an important part of marriage. And you're right,
S4: we do have different ideas. Most of the time in
S4: terms of how often, etc., you know, but this is helpful.
S1: My other book, 31 days to a Happy Husband. I
S1: remember when I was writing that one of James's friends
S1: was like, why do you need 31 days? All you
S1: have to do is like, say, make love to your
S1: husband and he'll be very happy. So, so I thought,
S1: you know, when you think of making marriage easier, I
S1: think for for many men, they would just think like, oh, well,
S1: if we could be more intimate physically, that would make
S1: marriage a lot easier for me.
S4: Yeah, yeah. One of the problems that many marriages face
S4: is the change in the marriage relationship once the kids
S4: come along. So how do you keep your marriage from
S4: becoming all about the kids?
S1: I think this is really a modern problem. I think,
S1: you know, in the days of, you know, like maybe
S1: a generation or two, it's like you saw the kids
S1: were part of the home, but they weren't the everything
S1: of the home. Right? So when a baby comes into
S1: your lives, of course, like when Ethan was born, it
S1: was like Simba and The Lion King. It was like,
S1: look who has come and all of your life revolves
S1: around keeping this baby alive. And that's okay, because you
S1: really do have to revolve around that baby to keep
S1: it alive. But once the baby turns two, five, ten, 15,
S1: you've got to realize, wait a minute. Our whole universe
S1: doesn't revolve around this child. But for a lot of us,
S1: we might not see it, but we really are very
S1: child centered. So things like this. You know me as
S1: a mom, if I need to bring my, you know,
S1: kids to school and then I need to go get
S1: them something for a sport, you know, they need something.
S1: And then I'm going to watch them play their sport,
S1: and then I'm going to run home and have make dinner. Like,
S1: I'm not going to think a thing of this. I'm
S1: just going to do it because that's what I do.
S1: I'm the mom. But if my husband, James, who is
S1: a realtor, says, hey, honey, could you look over this
S1: letter for me and just see? Does this sound right
S1: to you? I'm like, I have so much to do. Like,
S1: you're a grown man. Look at it yourself. Use Grammarly.
S1: You know, so I think sometimes if we can just
S1: think to ourselves. Do I treat my spouse with the
S1: same type of service, willingness, time, speaking their love languages?
S1: Do I do that as much for my spouse as
S1: I do it for my kids? And I think for
S1: many of us, we'd have to go, ouch. Like, I
S1: don't really do that. So when the kids have an activity,
S1: let's say, and you're trying to decide, okay, should we
S1: do soccer again? Should we go on the volleyball team?
S1: Should we play the clarinet? You know, and you're usually
S1: we're asking all these questions because we are looking through
S1: the lens of our child. But when we make those decisions,
S1: let's also ask is, how is this going to impact
S1: our marriage? Seriously? Like, how is this going to impact us?
S1: Are we going to be not able to see each
S1: other very much. Are we going to be so ragged
S1: that we are kind of, you know, kind of mean
S1: to each other? We don't have time to have date night.
S1: We don't have time for, you know, all the things
S1: that we just talked about, you know, so we have
S1: to ask that. How is it for the marriage? How
S1: is it for the rhythm of the family? So these
S1: are the kinds of questions if you are not going
S1: on a date, because even though you have a trusted babysitter,
S1: you feel like, oh, the kids don't like it when
S1: we go out, you know, that's that's a sign of
S1: a child centered home that says, you know what, child
S1: of mine? It's okay that you don't like it, that
S1: Mommy and daddy are leaving for two hours, but we're
S1: going to go ahead and do that anyway. So those
S1: kinds of things kind of help us from becoming too
S1: child centered.
S4: Yeah. You know, I've always felt that having an intimate, marriage, loving, caring,
S4: supportive marriage is one of the most powerful things we
S4: can do for our children. Yes. You know, giving them
S4: that kind of model is so important.
S1: Totally.
S4: Of course, a big part of that is also learning
S4: how to listen. And in the book, you give tips
S4: on becoming a better listener. Why is listening so important?
S4: And what are some of those tips?
S1: Yeah. Listening shows. I'm interested in you. I care about
S1: you and Doctor Chapman. I thought I am a good listener.
S1: You know, I've just always thought about that. About myself.
S1: I'm a good listener. And then I realize, oh, no,
S1: I'm not a good listener. So these are the tips
S1: I learned in my own marriage. And we read a
S1: book about it. And then James told me about it.
S1: It's like, oh, yeah, that does sound like me. The
S1: first kind of listener is an assumptive listener. And that's
S1: how I am, is you assume you know what the
S1: person's talking about. So for me, I'm always finishing James's sentences.
S1: He'll say like, oh, I want to volunteer for this thing.
S1: And I'll say, oh yeah, they really need volunteers. And
S1: you're so good at this, and you'd be so great
S1: at that. And he's like, uh, actually I was going
S1: to say something totally different, you know? So, so he'll
S1: he'll joke like, uh, do you want to try again?
S1: You know, that's kind of his line. That means, Arlene,
S1: please stop filling my mouth with words. And please just
S1: listen to me. And don't assume that you know what
S1: I'm going to say. And please, let me finish. So,
S1: an assumptive listener, if you catch yourself, you know, and
S1: it's I feel like it comes from this place of
S1: wanting them to feel like, oh, I know exactly what
S1: you're saying. I'm tracking with you. But for me, it
S1: means shut your mouth. Let them finish and then comment
S1: about it. So the assumptive listener. The second is the fixer.
S1: And a lot of times, you know, this can be
S1: the husband of your saying something, and then they just
S1: come in and fix it and you're thinking, I didn't
S1: want it fixed. I just want you to listen. And
S1: so that's really helpful if you just tell them, hey,
S1: I just want to tell you about the stress I'm
S1: feeling right now. I do not want you to fix it.
S1: And a lot of times that does it. And then
S1: you can tell it and then they're like, oh, that
S1: sounds like a lot. And everybody's happy. And then the
S1: third type is the celebrity listener. And I think we
S1: are all the celebrity listener and the celebrity listener. We're
S1: always shifting the conversation back to us. So if my
S1: husband is sharing about his terrible boss, that is being
S1: very challenging, then I'm like, oh, I remember when I
S1: had this terrible boss and I just take the whole
S1: conversation and I make it about me. And so just
S1: think of like a spotlight on the other, on the
S1: person who is talking. And when they are talking, they
S1: are the celebrity. You are not the celebrity. They are
S1: the celebrity. Let them have their moment and just be
S1: there for their moment. You don't have to turn every
S1: single one of their moments into an opportunity to talk
S1: about yourself and watch yourself. Because we all do this.
S1: We all do this. And so just be sensitive to it.
S1: You know, obviously there is give and take and it's
S1: fine to share your stories. You know, that's fine. But
S1: the idea is whoever is the speaker, you're the focus
S1: of attention, not me, the listener.
S4: Yeah, I think a lot of lot of our listeners
S4: are going are identifying with those responses that you talked about.
S4: So now your husband, James puts some interesting items on
S4: your wedding registry. What did those teach you about having
S4: different expectations?
S1: Yeah, people are very different, aren't they? So they come in.
S1: We were long distance. So I was living in Virginia
S1: and he was living in Texas when we were engaged.
S1: So I told him, you go to the superstore, you
S1: take the little scanner and you get whatever you want. Great.
S1: So I walk into the store in my city and
S1: I print out the wedding registry, and I'm reading it
S1: and I'm like, wait a minute. It had all this
S1: camping equipment, which makes sense considering our conversation earlier. So
S1: it had a tent and a little, little cooking thing
S1: and a little lamp. And I'm thinking, why in the
S1: world do we need this? You know, so I keep
S1: reading and then I read, like, bug spray. Like, there's, like,
S1: wasp like things that you would spray to get rid
S1: of wasps and ants. And then there was aspirin, like
S1: Advil and Tylenol and Tums, and I'm just getting sweaty
S1: and nervous. Right? And then I can't believe it. I
S1: think I'm I'm like, I can't believe my eyes. He
S1: has lubricant, K-Y jelly on the list, and I am
S1: just freaking out. And I think to myself, wait a minute. Okay. Oh,
S1: I get it. This must be a practical joke. He
S1: must be sending all his groomsmen to this store, and
S1: he thinks this is so funny. That sounds so like James.
S1: That's so funny. We did not have cell phones at
S1: that time. Of course, so I call. I went home,
S1: called him on the phone. Honey, that's so funny. I
S1: was just at the store and I saw your registry
S1: with the ant ant bait. And that's so funny. Like
S1: a practical joke. And he was completely silent. And he's like,
S1: what's so funny? And, like the things you put on
S1: the registry? That was funny. He's like, those are the
S1: things I want for my home. I don't want a
S1: candy dish. I don't want a set of plates. Those
S1: are practical things I need for our first apartment. And
S1: I'm like, what? So I could not believe Doctor Chapman
S1: and Chris that I was the one on the defense.
S1: Like I'm the one who has to defend that. You
S1: put Tums on our wedding registry. So I try to
S1: think of a word picture, right? Because that's what they
S1: tell you, that people will use a word picture. In
S1: our counseling, we were learning this. I said, imagine you
S1: went to the Queen and you wrapped a beautiful gift
S1: and she opened it and it was Windex. I was like,
S1: that would be inappropriate, right? So. So I guess it
S1: worked enough so that we took everything off the list
S1: except the camping equipment. So I was so pleased. But
S1: it was funny because I thought I was so right, like.
S1: And he was so wrong. And then I realized, oh
S1: my goodness, in his eyes, what he did was right.
S1: Because when we did get to that apartment, there were
S1: a lot of bugs in that Texas apartment, and we
S1: could use some Tylenol, you know, so you realize with
S1: the expectations like, oh my goodness, I think you are
S1: so wrong, but actually in your own eyes and in
S1: your own way, you're right to so to to really
S1: give each other the benefit of the doubt that okay,
S1: your expectation is valid, just as mine is.
S4: Yeah.
S2: This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
S2: Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations.
S2: When you go to five Love Languages. Com you can
S2: find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the
S2: resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's
S2: featured resource again go to five Love languages.com.
S4: Arlene, in the book you talk about various decisions, and
S4: one of those decisions is about transferring the atmosphere of
S4: your home from complaining to giving thanks. Why is complaining
S4: such a danger in a marriage?
S1: Yeah, to give thanks every day. That decision. You know,
S1: think about if you have a person in your life
S1: who is always saying, oh, it's too hot. Oh, she
S1: was so rude. Oh, I can't believe they served me this.
S1: This is the wrong order. Like, do you want to
S1: be around this person? Right. Like we're like, this is
S1: not a pleasant person to be around. And I think
S1: with strangers or with casual acquaintances, even with our friends,
S1: we can show that common courtesy of of not complaining,
S1: but with our spouses, you know, and even with our kids,
S1: we can kind of let it all go loose right
S1: at home and just be grumbling and complaining. And that
S1: is a very unattractive person to be with and really
S1: not very fun to be yourself to. And so what
S1: can change that? What can transform that spirit of grumbling
S1: and complaining? And let's remember the children of Israel when
S1: they were wandering around the desert and they could not
S1: enter the Promised Land. It wasn't for those big sins
S1: of murder or idolatry like they made another calf or adultery.
S1: It was they were complaining. They had a grumbling attitude
S1: that this manna isn't enough. This quail is. We didn't
S1: really like it. We liked it the first day after that.
S1: We didn't like it. This whole cloud by day, fire
S1: by night, we're over it. Like these were miraculous ways.
S1: God was taking care of his children. And his children
S1: were like, we we don't really like this. We. And
S1: they grumbled, and you see that harsh consequence because it
S1: was the opposite of being thankful to God. Being thankful.
S1: Thank you for what I had. So in a marriage,
S1: if you can transform from oh my goodness, I can't
S1: believe you did that. You're always doing that wrong. You
S1: always leave the toilet seat up, blah blah blah blah.
S1: Instead of grumbling that we are thankful, I'm. I'm really
S1: thankful you're alive. I mean, if you have to start there,
S1: there are a are a lot of people who have
S1: lost their spouses, or their spouses are gravely ill, and
S1: they do anything for a spouse that walks around, you know.
S1: So for you, just start being grateful. Turn that to God,
S1: because that's what what God wants us to do. We
S1: know that. Give thanks to God and and start giving
S1: thanks for your marriage.
S4: It's amazing how much that could transform the atmosphere, isn't it?
S1: Yes.
S4: When you give thanks rather than complaining. Yeah, but if
S4: you have that pattern, it. You know, you may have
S4: to ask God to help me. Lord help me. You
S4: know my natural tendency here. Yeah, well, another topic you
S4: deal with is social media and how it impacts marriages.
S4: What can a couple do to help eliminate some of
S4: the harmful effects of social media?
S1: Recognizing that what you see on social media is not
S1: real life. You know, when you looked at a magazine
S1: or a TV show, you knew like, oh, they spent hours,
S1: like making their house look so nice or oh, that's
S1: like just for the camera because it's this TV show.
S1: But now we have in our pockets social media that
S1: shows us like our friends. And I say that kind
S1: of in air quotes, like people like us, like our peers,
S1: but it also shows us celebrities and all sorts of
S1: people who have, you know, that's their whole job is
S1: to make their house or their marriage look super, super
S1: amazing and happy. And when you look at that constantly,
S1: you'll think, well, I don't have that. I don't have
S1: a house like that. I don't have a cute spouse
S1: like that. I don't go to fun locales with my spouse.
S1: And all of a sudden, what does this do? We're
S1: not thankful we're comparing and we're falling short. And so
S1: if you realize, wait a minute, this is really not
S1: helping me in my marriage, because think of it, how
S1: much social media helps you? Like, oh, that really supported
S1: my marriage. You know what I mean? Like like, hopefully
S1: they could could come and they'll see something that you create,
S1: something that I create and and hopefully that will help
S1: them think, oh, you know, let's, let's do this thing,
S1: this marriage. But believe me, my social media following is
S1: a whole lot tinier than most, right? So what we're
S1: normally seeing is not supportive to your marriage. You're looking
S1: at an advertisement. You're looking at something to buy. You're
S1: looking at someone that you wish you had their life.
S1: And so recognize that. And if that's a problem, take
S1: a fast. Say, hey, you know what? For one week,
S1: I'm not going to do any social media and just
S1: see what that does to your mind, to your heart,
S1: to your outlook. Be open. If you ask your spouse, hey,
S1: am I on my phone too much? Do you feel
S1: like I'm like scrolling through social media too much? Because
S1: your spouse may say, yeah, I kind of wish you
S1: were more present with me. And you'd look at me,
S1: you know, it could be sports, it could be checking
S1: stock quotes, it could be Netflix, it could be anything
S1: but be here. You know, and I talk about, like,
S1: when you go on vacation, your vacation is to be together.
S1: It's not to make a social media real. You know,
S1: a lot of us will get to a spot and think, oh,
S1: this would be such a beautiful thing to post on
S1: social media. And then the whole thing becomes making this
S1: amazing thing for social media. And I say, no, take
S1: a few pictures, put your phone in your pocket and
S1: enjoy that for your spouse. He is your audience. She
S1: is your audience. Not all these thousands of followers who
S1: don't even hardly know you. So keep all these kinds
S1: of things in mind that the real relationship of your spouse,
S1: that's what's most important to tend and care for, not
S1: your social media feed.
S4: Well, we know that in marriage there are hard times
S4: and marriages are tested in the hard times. You talk
S4: about a miscarriage you had at 26 weeks. How did
S4: you and your husband navigate that loss?
S1: Yeah. You know, and and people grieve in different ways,
S1: you know. So I kind of wanted to talk about it.
S1: James was maybe a little bit more quiet about it.
S1: And there was, you know, you're at different places in it.
S1: So one might be going further along and then one
S1: might be taking a little bit longer. Right? So just
S1: be sensitive to that, that you deal with difficulties in
S1: different ways. Be available to each other. But I really
S1: think that when we lost that baby, it was such
S1: a time where God carried us. When the Lord helped
S1: us like we'd be at church and the exact right,
S1: you know, song would come, or someone would pray over
S1: us and it would be exactly what we needed for
S1: that day. So be immerse yourself with with spiritual people
S1: who love you, care about you, and who can speak
S1: truth and comfort in your life. So I think that
S1: was a huge thing, to be able to navigate that
S1: together and then to be able to, you know, have
S1: I think it's that mindset that says the difficulties will
S1: strengthen us. They won't weaken us because they can, because
S1: then you've gone through this thing together and no one
S1: else has gone through it but you, the two of you.
S1: That's it. You know, you are the ones that were
S1: in the eye of the storm. And if you can
S1: be in the eye of the storm together, come out
S1: on the other side. Boom. It just it levels up
S1: your relationship. And I know for many though, when that
S1: eye of the storm hits, it's like it just throws
S1: them opposite directions. Right. And that difficulty really harms them.
S1: So I think if you can be praying together, if
S1: you can find like, you know, like I mentioned, going
S1: to church, you know, be be regular. Don't don't skip
S1: going to church because you're going through a hard time.
S1: Go to church together and find that healing together as
S1: a couple.
S4: Yeah. Yeah. You know, another decision you talk about is
S4: the importance of serving your spouse. Now, I think there
S4: are a lot of people today who have the notion that, well,
S4: that's an old fashioned idea, serving because they have the
S4: idea of, you know, the wife is going to he's
S4: going to take advantage of me. All I've got to
S4: do is serve him. But but explain that to us. What?
S4: What is biblical service?
S1: Yeah. You look at Jesus. Right? And what do the
S1: gospels tell us? The Son of Man came to serve.
S1: We cannot get around it. So as much as we think,
S1: I don't want to serve that. I want someone to
S1: serve me, you know, or I want to be their equal. Right.
S1: That would be more like I want to be their equal.
S1: I don't need to serve them. They need to respect me.
S1: But this whole idea of, you know what? I care
S1: about you. And if there's something I can do to
S1: help you, I will. So I think it is this
S1: attitude of I will help you. It's not this attitude
S1: of like, oh, I'm just so less than and you
S1: can step all over me and I'm, I'm not even worthy,
S1: you know, to bring you your water. No, that's not
S1: that's not what I'm talking about. But it is this
S1: idea of like, hey, I'm I'm around to make your
S1: life easier. I mean, can you imagine if each spouse
S1: that was there thought of like, hey, you know what?
S1: I'm here today. I'm here to make your life easier.
S1: And if you approached it that way, you need something.
S1: How can I help you? You know my daughter, she's
S1: a sophomore in high school. She is. You know, like
S1: this particular day, she has to stay after school because
S1: she has this dance recital, so she kind of is busy.
S1: So in the morning I'll say, how can I help you?
S1: Can I, you know, usually she makes her lunch herself,
S1: all these different things, but she's got more to do
S1: to get ready. So I say, you know, how can
S1: I help you? So again, we do it kind of
S1: easily with our children, but in the same. And so
S1: does that mean she's going to walk all over me? Yeah. No.
S1: As long as she has responsibilities. No, she's going to
S1: be like, thank you, mom. Thank you for helping me.
S1: So for our spouses to have that same attitude. Oh, boy. Honey,
S1: you have a big day at work today. How can
S1: I help you today? You know, that's that's serving your spouse.
S1: And that's something really beautiful. And life giving. It is
S1: not demeaning or punitive.
S4: You know that that question that you worded, how can
S4: I make your life easier is one of the questions
S4: that literally turned my marriage around. When I asked, my
S4: wife started asking her on a regular basis, how can
S4: I make your life easier today? You know, how can
S4: I make your life easier? And she typically had an idea,
S4: you know.
S1: She said, pick up the vacuum.
S4: Yeah, when I did that, you know, I mean, she
S4: she felt, you know, treasured and loved. Yeah. So yeah,
S4: that's super important. It's a Christian lifestyle, really. You know,
S4: because that's what love is all about. It's serving other people. Yeah. Now,
S4: you and your husband were on the today show, which
S4: was a dream for you. Uh, how can spouses support
S4: one another's dreams?
S1: Yeah. I think this was such a funny situation because
S1: I was asked for one of my books to come
S1: on the today show, but they said you can only
S1: come if we like your husband because we want him
S1: to come also. So they asked, does your husband have
S1: any videos of him that we can watch? And of course,
S1: my husband, he's just like a normal guy. He's not
S1: like a, you know, YouTube sensation. But he had posted
S1: a YouTube video of him making kettle corn like an
S1: instructional video of how to make kettle corn. So I
S1: thought to myself, oh my goodness. My appearance on the
S1: Today show is contingent upon this kettle corn video. So
S1: it was kind of funny, but thankfully they said, oh well,
S1: he can talk, he'll be fine. So they had him
S1: on and I thought to myself, what a husband. Because
S1: I at that time had done interviews and many of
S1: them in the past. But this was James's first ever
S1: media interview. He'd never been interviewed in his entire life.
S1: And he's going on the Today Show, you know, so
S1: it's like, go big or go home. And so I
S1: really admired that. He was like, he didn't even hesitate. Yes,
S1: I will do that. That would be great for you.
S1: I will do that. And we practiced we put little
S1: stools up in our house and I asked him questions
S1: and he sat on the stool and he answered my questions.
S1: We even set up an event at our church where
S1: we did a little informal Q&A so that people could
S1: ask us questions, and he could get used to giving
S1: answers like, I mean, this is amazing. This is my
S1: husband that he will like, oh, let me learn. I
S1: will grow. I will do it. I will help you.
S1: So having this attitude, you know, of. Hey, if if
S1: this is important to you, then it's important to me too. Now,
S1: I give this this little side note, though. If it's
S1: the kind of dream that has become an obsession, right?
S1: It's like everything is about this dream. And the marriage
S1: is falling apart and the kids are falling apart. And
S1: you never sleep anymore because you're pursuing this dream. You know,
S1: dreams should unite you as a couple, not divide you.
S1: And if you're finding that, yeah, it's hard, but it's
S1: actually dividing us, you know? Then it's time to talk
S1: about it. Is this a dream that we both can
S1: get behind to support one another? And it should be
S1: something that enhances your marriage and not detracts from it.
S4: Yeah. Yeah. Well, we talked a bit earlier about the
S4: importance of fun in a marriage. And I know in
S4: your book you have a long list, really, of activities
S4: that husbands and wives can try together. And of course
S4: we all have different interests and that sort of thing.
S4: But could you share some of the things you and
S4: your husband do for fun that might help the rest
S4: of us?
S1: Yes, and you will find a very long list in
S1: the book. That is something you're going to find, something
S1: that you have in common. So for my husband and I,
S1: it has been hard to find fun things because he's
S1: much more athletic and I am not. He is very
S1: outdoorsy and I am not, you know, so it's like,
S1: oh my goodness, what are we going to do? So
S1: part of the thing is having the attitude like, okay,
S1: if you like it, I'll try it. So we have
S1: done everything from rollerblading to skiing to martial arts to
S1: dancing to ultimate frisbee, to, you know, all these different things.
S1: And what we have kind of settled on right now.
S1: We are in the age of dancing, so we are
S1: going to a ballroom dance class. So we're learning how
S1: to waltz and foxtrot and salsa and tango and all
S1: this stuff. And it's very funny because the first time
S1: we went, you know, it's this huge ballroom and there
S1: are lessons there, but it's all, you know, people probably
S1: age 60 and up who dance really well. So we
S1: got there and we do not know what we're doing.
S1: It's as if a neon sign was over our heads,
S1: like we are new and we are terrible, you know?
S1: So all these people came up to us and they're
S1: trying to help us, and we're trying to imitate what
S1: they do. I mean, I thought for sure that first lesson,
S1: I'm like, we are never coming back here. Like, we
S1: are really bad at this. But you know what? We
S1: kept going and we're a year in and we're actually
S1: decent where we can get around the floor now. And
S1: we figured it's something we can do together. It's something
S1: it is fun. Like we both think it's fun. And
S1: then we realize as we get older, like, you can
S1: keep doing this. So for us right now, it's dancing.
S1: We play ultimate Frisbee with our kids, which is kind
S1: of like soccer with the Frisbee. So a lot of
S1: running and you're scoring goals and we started that during Covid,
S1: playing every Sunday afternoon. And believe it or not, since
S1: 2020 till today we are still playing every afternoon and
S1: with other families and people and it's it's we never
S1: want to go by. We I mean, Lucy and I,
S1: we my daughter and I, we are like, oh, we
S1: have to go again. We're so lazy. We don't want
S1: to go. But every time we go, we have a
S1: lot of fun. So sometimes with the fun, you kind
S1: of drag your feet on it. Like, I don't want
S1: to go do that. A lot of effort. But after
S1: it's over, you're like, that was hilarious. That was really fun.
S1: So those are a few of the fun things we do.
S4: Well, I think that long list that you have in
S4: the book is going to be helpful to some people,
S4: because there's some who are hearing the things you and
S4: James have done and say, oh, I could never do that.
S4: You know.
S1: I don't want to do that. Yeah, there are much
S1: more quieter things to do too.
S4: Yeah, but the but the list covers a lot of
S4: personality types. I think that people will find those to
S4: be helpful. Now, you and your husband, James, have been
S4: married now for 26 years. And you say that of
S4: all ages, at all ages in a marriage, people should
S4: be preparing for the golden years. So how how do
S4: you and how do you prepare for the golden years?
S4: And what are you all doing?
S1: Yeah, we're so short term sometimes, right? We just think like,
S1: how can I get through the day without realizing, hey,
S1: the habits I have today that affects the quality of
S1: my life tomorrow. You know, and when we think of
S1: these senior years, golden years, you know, now, James and
S1: I are in our 50s. So now it's not as
S1: we used to think, that 55 plus thing where they
S1: were really old people. Now we're like, oh no, those
S1: people are not old at all. Those are very young people.
S1: So how can we prepare for those things? And part
S1: of it is liking each other, right. So that when
S1: your kids leave and you're empty nesters, you still like
S1: one another. Well, how do you do that? How what
S1: what made you like them in the first place? You
S1: had fun together. You cared about each other. You had conversations.
S1: You had novel experiences. So some of some of the
S1: things you can do to prepare now for those golden
S1: years is keep being together like, you know, decide, obviously
S1: I'm going to stay married, but then really keep showing up,
S1: go to the date nights, you know, make that a priority.
S1: Try novel experiences whether it's you know, that we it
S1: doesn't have to be an athletic pursuit. It could be
S1: a cooking class. You know, try a novel experience together
S1: so that you're used to growing and learning so that
S1: when you're in your later years, you still have that
S1: rhythm that you can keep learning and growing that that
S1: would be fun. You know, they they talked about in
S1: a book about how what makes a Happy Retiree by
S1: Wes Moss. And they talked about the happy retirees have
S1: 3.6 core pursuits together. So in other words, they have
S1: about 3 or 4 activities they like to do together
S1: that could be taking grandkids out, playing chess, you know,
S1: going on vacation to a, you know, to Hawaii. You know,
S1: so they. But there are things they like to do together.
S1: So if that's what makes us happy in the golden years,
S1: why not have a little practice now, right? So? So
S1: do those things together. So that when it comes time,
S1: you're used to doing those things.
S4: You know, the big thing now with a lot of
S4: our friends is pickleball.
S1: That's right. Yeah, exactly. Have you given it a try,
S1: Doctor Chapman?
S4: I have not given it a try. No, I have
S4: to be honest, I have not, but so many of
S4: our friends have. And of course, some of our friends
S4: have also gotten injured in pickleball.
S1: It comes at a bit of a cost. Yeah.
S4: You're right. Well, Arlene, this has been fun chatting with
S4: you again. Of course, I've always enjoyed being with you
S4: and James and your family and interfacing with them along
S4: the way. And the books you and I have written together.
S4: I've always enjoyed doing that, but it's so good to
S4: have you with us today, and thanks for writing this
S4: book that really focuses on marriage. And I think whether
S4: couples are dating and thinking about marriage, this book would
S4: be a good book to work through together, or whether
S4: you've been married for a while. Either way, I think
S4: it's going to be helpful. So again, thanks for being
S4: with us today.
S1: Thank you so much. It's been so fun.
S3: Again, our featured resource is the book Making Marriage Easier
S3: How to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. It's
S3: written by our guest, Arlene Pelikan, and you can find
S3: out more at Building Relationships us. Again, go to Building
S3: Relationships us.
S4: And next week, how do you live like Jesus in
S4: a non Jesus world?
S2: Author and former president of Moody Bible Institute, Doctor Joe
S2: Stoll joins us in one week. Well, a big thank
S2: you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice. Backing
S2: building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of
S2: Moody Radio in Chicago in association with Moody Publishers. Thanks
S2: for listening.