WEBVTT - Making Marriage Easier | Arlene Pellicane 0:00:00.360 --> 0:00:02.639 That's what I mean by easier. How can we take 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.440 this thing called marriage and take kind of the sting 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:08.760 out of it? How can we make things not so 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:13.440 difficult to have a conversation, maybe, or to have date night? 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:16.000 You know, what are things we can do that are 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:19.600 rhythms that we just start doing, and it's not so 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:20.560 hard anymore. 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:29.160 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:33.000 the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Is 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.800 it possible to love your spouse for a lifetime? Is 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.960 it possible to just like your spouse for a lifetime 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.640 if that feels like an unattainable goal? We have some 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:43.080 help and hope for you today. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:45.800 Author and Speaker Arlene Pelikan is going to join us 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.800 straight ahead in just in time for Valentine's Day. She's 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.040 been working on her latest book for more than 25 years, 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:54.440 because that's how long she and her husband, James, have 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:58.240 been married. Her goal is to make marriage easier, and 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:01.700 you'll find out what that means today go to building relationships. 0:01:02.780 --> 0:01:06.819 You'll see Arlene's book right there, Making Marriage Easier. And Gary, 0:01:06.819 --> 0:01:09.060 that goes right along with your ministry through the years 0:01:09.060 --> 0:01:11.740 with the Five Love Languages and the other books that 0:01:11.740 --> 0:01:12.420 you've written. 0:01:12.780 --> 0:01:14.820 Yeah, that's what I've tried to do through the years, 0:01:14.819 --> 0:01:18.060 but I'm really glad that Arlene is joining in the 0:01:18.060 --> 0:01:21.780 marriage event here. You know, she's written a lot about 0:01:21.780 --> 0:01:24.580 children and relationships with children. She and I have written 0:01:24.580 --> 0:01:27.619 some books together, but I am really glad to have 0:01:27.620 --> 0:01:30.100 her on the program today. I think our audience is 0:01:30.100 --> 0:01:32.619 going to really enjoy this and find it very helpful. 0:01:33.140 --> 0:01:35.699 Well, Arlene is a speaker, the author of a number 0:01:35.700 --> 0:01:37.940 of books, as Gary just mentioned, host of the Happy 0:01:37.980 --> 0:01:42.620 Home Podcast. She's a spokesperson for National Marriage Week as well. 0:01:42.620 --> 0:01:45.820 We've talked about 31 days to a happy husband growing up, 0:01:45.819 --> 0:01:49.780 social screen kids and parents rising. If you go to 0:01:49.780 --> 0:01:53.820 building relationships us, her latest is right there Making Marriage 0:01:53.820 --> 0:01:57.420 Easier how to Love and Like your Spouse for life. 0:01:57.460 --> 0:02:00.050 Just go to building relationships. relationships.us. 0:02:00.650 --> 0:02:03.290 Well, Arlene, welcome back to Building Relationships. 0:02:03.570 --> 0:02:05.730 It's so wonderful to be back. Thank you so much 0:02:05.730 --> 0:02:06.610 for having me. 0:02:07.210 --> 0:02:11.250 Well, let's talk about the why of this book. It 0:02:11.250 --> 0:02:14.290 seems to me you want to share some hope for 0:02:14.290 --> 0:02:17.410 those who are thinking about marriage, and also those that 0:02:17.410 --> 0:02:20.450 are already married and maybe struggling. Is that true? 0:02:20.970 --> 0:02:24.770 Yeah. I have two college aged students and students, children 0:02:24.770 --> 0:02:27.690 and a high schooler. And I see that many of 0:02:27.690 --> 0:02:31.170 these like 20 somethings, 30 somethings that I'm meeting, they're like, ah, 0:02:31.169 --> 0:02:33.290 I don't I don't know if I'm going to get married. Like, 0:02:33.290 --> 0:02:35.489 I don't really want to get married. That looks really hard. 0:02:35.530 --> 0:02:37.770 And and so I'm kind of a little bit alarmed 0:02:37.770 --> 0:02:41.730 because I see this from good, solid Christian homes. Right. 0:02:41.770 --> 0:02:44.250 Who had a very positive view of marriage. And then 0:02:44.250 --> 0:02:46.290 I'm thinking like, why don't you want to get married? 0:02:46.690 --> 0:02:49.850 So the book partially is for younger people to say, 0:02:49.850 --> 0:02:52.610 wait a minute, this marriage thing sounds awesome. I want 0:02:52.610 --> 0:02:55.010 to do this. So how can we make that easier 0:02:55.010 --> 0:02:58.250 for them, more attainable, something that they want. And then 0:02:58.389 --> 0:03:00.869 for those of us who are already married, you know 0:03:00.870 --> 0:03:04.230 that we hear things like, oh, it's so hard. It's 0:03:04.230 --> 0:03:09.190 so difficult. He's so ornery, she's so insensitive and unresponsive. 0:03:09.230 --> 0:03:11.790 You know, you hear all these things. So just in 0:03:11.790 --> 0:03:15.030 the same way, when we know we have to do something, 0:03:15.030 --> 0:03:16.870 we think to ourselves, well, how do I make this easier? 0:03:16.910 --> 0:03:18.030 You know, that's just how we are. How can we 0:03:18.030 --> 0:03:20.310 make cooking easier? It's like, oh, we have all these things. 0:03:20.310 --> 0:03:22.190 We get the all the food in the box, and 0:03:22.190 --> 0:03:24.829 then we prepared ourselves. So for me, what I want 0:03:24.830 --> 0:03:26.709 to do for this book is like, you know, here's 0:03:26.710 --> 0:03:29.030 your marriage in a box, so to speak. Let's make 0:03:29.030 --> 0:03:31.870 it easier for you. Not easy because it's going to 0:03:31.870 --> 0:03:34.070 require effort, but easier. 0:03:34.870 --> 0:03:38.310 Yeah. Well, you describe in the book early on a 0:03:38.310 --> 0:03:42.350 backpacking trip that you made with your family. What lessons 0:03:42.350 --> 0:03:44.030 did you learn from that experience? 0:03:44.350 --> 0:03:46.790 Yeah. So. So right off the gate, right out of 0:03:46.790 --> 0:03:50.030 the gate, it's like, okay, you're a hiker and a 0:03:50.030 --> 0:03:52.350 camper kind of person, and I'm like a lodge and 0:03:52.350 --> 0:03:54.670 a sit by the fire kind of person. And I 0:03:54.670 --> 0:03:57.970 think most couples are kind of like that. So this 0:03:57.970 --> 0:04:00.290 was a little bit a lot of bit of, of 0:04:00.330 --> 0:04:02.170 give for me to say, okay, I will go in 0:04:02.210 --> 0:04:06.730 the wilderness with a £25 backpack with everything I need 0:04:06.730 --> 0:04:09.090 just on my back for three days. I will go 0:04:09.090 --> 0:04:11.170 to the bathroom in the wild, like I will do 0:04:11.170 --> 0:04:14.770 this to show my love, right? So when and this was, 0:04:14.810 --> 0:04:19.490 you know, near Mammoth Lakes in California, it was spectacularly beautiful, 0:04:19.529 --> 0:04:21.090 you know. So I get that. And we're making these 0:04:21.089 --> 0:04:25.090 beautiful memories with our three children. Everyone is ecstatic, pretty much, 0:04:25.089 --> 0:04:29.490 except me. So. So we're walking, and when it's beautiful 0:04:29.810 --> 0:04:33.170 and doable, I was like, this is fantastic. I am 0:04:33.170 --> 0:04:35.570 going to do this again. You can sign me up 0:04:35.570 --> 0:04:38.610 next year. I will join you. But when it was 0:04:38.810 --> 0:04:42.729 uphill for like two hours and I'm just struggling with 0:04:42.730 --> 0:04:45.010 that pack on my back, or when we got to 0:04:45.010 --> 0:04:47.650 a patch of snow and it's like, wait a minute, 0:04:47.650 --> 0:04:49.450 I don't think we can pass this. We need to 0:04:49.450 --> 0:04:51.450 find a different way. You know, when we were in 0:04:51.450 --> 0:04:54.330 those kinds of moments, I'm like, oh no, I've done 0:04:54.330 --> 0:04:57.240 my due diligence. I came the one time I am 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:01.599 not doing this again. And it reminded me as I'm walking. 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.440 You know, I was I was working on this book 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.400 Making Marriage easier as I'm on this hike and I 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.799 it reminded me so much like, wow, this is like marriage. 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.600 Like when it's beautiful vistas and not that much effort. 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.440 It's like, yeah, I love marriage. Marriage is great. But 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.919 when it's, wow, we've got financial difficulties, we're having trouble 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:20.560 in the bedroom. We hardly talk anymore. Like, why are 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.040 you on my case all the time? Then you're like, 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.600 maybe this was the wrong journey. Maybe. Maybe we should 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.680 call it quits, you know? So it is this idea 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:30.719 of you can look just like I saw the trail 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.560 map and I could see, like, oh, yeah, this is 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:34.200 going to be difficult. I could see the little dotted 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.080 lines going up and down, right. The elevation. But until 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:41.040 you're actually there, you don't really know what how difficult 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:43.920 it's going to be. But in that moment you have 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.520 to decide, I am going to finish this loop like 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.640 I am going to get to the end, I will, 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.799 I will see this through. I remember on the trip 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:55.900 I said to James, if I could pay someone $5,000 0:05:55.900 --> 0:05:59.099 to airlift me out of this spot. I actually, I 0:05:59.100 --> 0:06:03.060 actually think I would, but, you know, marriage is not 0:06:03.060 --> 0:06:05.180 like that. You cannot pay to get out. You know, 0:06:05.180 --> 0:06:07.460 you have to say like, hey, I started this, I 0:06:07.500 --> 0:06:10.020 made this vow, I'm going to finish it. And just 0:06:10.020 --> 0:06:13.500 having that mindset of, hey, this is what I chose. 0:06:13.500 --> 0:06:15.380 It's going to have highs, it's going to have lows, 0:06:15.500 --> 0:06:17.659 and I'm going to go through it all. That makes 0:06:17.660 --> 0:06:19.700 marriage easier because then you're not always thinking, how do 0:06:19.700 --> 0:06:21.180 I get out? You know, what can I do? 0:06:21.300 --> 0:06:24.940 Yeah, yeah. Well, talk about that word easier. That's that's 0:06:24.940 --> 0:06:27.180 part of the title. Yeah, yeah. So what do you 0:06:27.180 --> 0:06:28.100 mean by easier? 0:06:28.620 --> 0:06:30.580 You know, when you make that decision like I'm going 0:06:30.580 --> 0:06:32.740 to get healthier. So I'm going to go to the 0:06:32.740 --> 0:06:34.900 gym and I'm going to. So I get by my 0:06:34.900 --> 0:06:37.940 gym membership. But then you never go right. It's like, 0:06:37.980 --> 0:06:39.660 oh that was fun. I went for two weeks and 0:06:39.660 --> 0:06:42.580 then I never go. So I might make that easier 0:06:42.660 --> 0:06:45.700 by saying, I will go to a specific class once 0:06:45.700 --> 0:06:48.300 a week, and then I might have a friend meet 0:06:48.300 --> 0:06:51.020 me at that specific class, and we might make a 0:06:51.020 --> 0:06:52.979 bet that if you don't show up to the class, 0:06:52.980 --> 0:06:55.490 you owe me the next lunch and then I'll put 0:06:55.490 --> 0:06:57.690 my shoes. If I'm a woman, I'll put my shoes 0:06:57.690 --> 0:07:00.050 and my little outfit, you know, out right next to 0:07:00.089 --> 0:07:02.170 my bed so that I know what to do. And 0:07:02.170 --> 0:07:04.250 what have I done? I've made it easier. I've made 0:07:04.250 --> 0:07:07.049 it like, okay, now I'm actually going to go because 0:07:07.050 --> 0:07:10.130 my clothes are set. The decisions have been made. There's 0:07:10.130 --> 0:07:12.090 something that will happen to me if I don't do it, 0:07:12.090 --> 0:07:14.130 and I can't let this person down that I'm meeting. 0:07:14.570 --> 0:07:16.770 And so that's what I mean by easier how can 0:07:16.770 --> 0:07:19.890 we take this thing called marriage and take kind of 0:07:19.890 --> 0:07:22.770 the sting out of it? How can we make things 0:07:22.770 --> 0:07:27.650 not so difficult to have a conversation, maybe, or to 0:07:27.690 --> 0:07:29.690 have date night, you know, what are things we can 0:07:29.690 --> 0:07:34.010 do that are rhythms that we just start doing and 0:07:34.010 --> 0:07:36.330 it's not so hard anymore? 0:07:36.330 --> 0:07:39.210 Yeah, well, I think those who will read the book 0:07:39.210 --> 0:07:42.610 are going to find that it's true. It can be easier. 0:07:42.770 --> 0:07:43.690 Yes. 0:07:43.690 --> 0:07:47.210 Now, for those listening who are struggling in their marriage, 0:07:47.250 --> 0:07:51.450 Valentine's day is coming up and they don't really feel 0:07:51.490 --> 0:07:54.710 love for their spouse. I remember when I was there, 0:07:54.830 --> 0:07:58.670 way back in my marriage. What do you say to them? 0:07:58.710 --> 0:08:00.670 First, I'm sorry that you're in that spot. It's a 0:08:00.670 --> 0:08:03.750 hard spot. I think it starts with that prayer. Lord, 0:08:04.070 --> 0:08:06.470 I've made this commitment to my spouse. Helped me to 0:08:06.510 --> 0:08:09.150 see my spouse like you see them. Help me to 0:08:09.190 --> 0:08:12.230 want to serve my spouse. Help me to want to 0:08:12.270 --> 0:08:14.270 reach out to them and not give up. You know, 0:08:14.270 --> 0:08:17.270 so start there and then just think about, you know, 0:08:17.270 --> 0:08:19.430 there are many times we don't want to go to work. 0:08:19.430 --> 0:08:22.790 We don't feel like going to work, but we go. 0:08:22.790 --> 0:08:25.750 There are times where I don't feel like doing laundry, 0:08:25.750 --> 0:08:27.390 but I do it. You know, there are a lot 0:08:27.390 --> 0:08:30.190 of things in life that we do, even if we 0:08:30.190 --> 0:08:32.510 don't feel it. I think of even at worship, at church, 0:08:32.510 --> 0:08:35.189 if you're to sing but you don't feel like singing 0:08:35.190 --> 0:08:38.790 that particular morning. But guess what? When you decide I 0:08:38.790 --> 0:08:41.870 will sing, I will praise like I'm going to do that. 0:08:41.950 --> 0:08:45.550 Those feelings follow. Like you start singing praise to God. 0:08:45.670 --> 0:08:47.870 You start thanking him for he is good and his 0:08:47.870 --> 0:08:51.550 love endures forever. Those feelings then will follow. And it 0:08:51.550 --> 0:08:53.850 is the same in your marriage that when you think, okay, 0:08:53.890 --> 0:08:57.290 I don't feel like loving you, but I will act 0:08:57.450 --> 0:09:00.690 in a loving way, right? I will act kindly. I 0:09:00.690 --> 0:09:05.370 will act with service. Then not long thereafter, I think 0:09:05.370 --> 0:09:08.690 those feelings will follow. So don't pursue the feeling or 0:09:08.690 --> 0:09:11.370 use the feeling as a barometer because they are. Feelings 0:09:11.370 --> 0:09:14.890 will lie to us. Our feelings, you know, they can say, 0:09:14.929 --> 0:09:18.290 you know, oh, he's so difficult. He never, you know, 0:09:18.330 --> 0:09:20.610 he never notices you. And you start listening to those 0:09:20.610 --> 0:09:23.569 feelings and you get kind of in a huff. But 0:09:23.570 --> 0:09:25.730 if you say to yourself, no, no, no, no, wait, 0:09:25.730 --> 0:09:28.490 what is the truth of this matter? Hey, I made 0:09:28.490 --> 0:09:31.490 a commitment. I'm going to look for what's good, and 0:09:31.490 --> 0:09:32.650 those feelings will follow. 0:09:33.610 --> 0:09:38.089 Earlier in the book, you made four decisions with your husband, James, 0:09:38.730 --> 0:09:41.850 that have made marriage easier for you. Can you tell 0:09:41.850 --> 0:09:43.449 us what those four decisions were? 0:09:44.010 --> 0:09:46.929 Yeah. And these work, whether you're newlyweds or you've been 0:09:46.929 --> 0:09:51.170 married for 50 years. The decision. Number one, play by 0:09:51.250 --> 0:09:55.000 the The rules pre-decide what you will do and what 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.920 you won't do. So this is again like we were 0:09:56.920 --> 0:10:00.960 talking about earlier. Don't follow feelings. Follow the commands of God. 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:04.680 So you know, in the Bible, the Psalm one tells 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.880 us that blessed is the one who delights in the 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.320 law of the Lord. So it's like, I love these 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.720 rules because these rules bring me life. So that's the 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.600 idea here. Like there are rules to marriage and they're 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.800 found in God's word. And if you love to follow them, 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.000 you're going to do really well. So what decision one 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:25.280 play by the rules. Decision two give thanks every day. 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.520 So every day you're finding something in your marriage to 0:10:28.520 --> 0:10:31.760 be thankful for. You're saying thank you God for my spouse. 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.000 Thank you that you're with us. So it is just 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:38.439 this attitude in your home that is rooted in gratefulness, 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:41.880 in gratitude, and not in, you know, complaining and wishing 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:46.400 you had someone else's life. Decision number three serve your spouse. 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.160 And I use you and Carolyn in the book Gary 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.740 here that how can you serve your spouse? And how 0:10:52.820 --> 0:10:56.500 can you say, what can I do for you? Instead of, well, 0:10:56.500 --> 0:10:58.580 what have you done for me lately? Because those are 0:10:58.580 --> 0:11:01.540 two very different people to live with. And then decision 0:11:01.540 --> 0:11:06.140 number four is take fun seriously. You know, when you 0:11:06.140 --> 0:11:09.140 were dating and falling in love, it was all about fun. 0:11:09.140 --> 0:11:11.020 And then you get the mortgage, you get the kids, 0:11:11.020 --> 0:11:13.260 you get work, you get you're on the internet all 0:11:13.260 --> 0:11:15.059 the time, and all of a sudden everything is so 0:11:15.059 --> 0:11:17.220 serious and nothing is fun. And you stop having fun 0:11:17.220 --> 0:11:19.980 together and you think that that's just an extra that 0:11:19.980 --> 0:11:22.819 you can't afford. Well, I'm here to tell you, you 0:11:22.820 --> 0:11:25.579 can't afford not to have fun, because it is the 0:11:25.580 --> 0:11:28.420 fun that brought you together and helps you keep together. 0:11:28.860 --> 0:11:31.819 Yeah, yeah. Okay, I want to go back to that 0:11:31.820 --> 0:11:36.260 first one. Play by the rules. In that section, you 0:11:36.260 --> 0:11:40.980 describe what you call the Power hour. What is the 0:11:41.100 --> 0:11:42.140 Power hour? 0:11:42.780 --> 0:11:44.100 This one. You guys are going to love this because 0:11:44.100 --> 0:11:47.300 it involves eating. We love eating, right. So the Power 0:11:47.340 --> 0:11:52.090 Hour is having meals Together. And I'm sure, Doctor Chapman, 0:11:52.090 --> 0:11:55.610 that this was something that people did without having need, 0:11:55.650 --> 0:11:57.850 without even having to bring it up. Right? People used 0:11:57.850 --> 0:12:01.370 to eat together. But now if you ask people, you know, 0:12:01.410 --> 0:12:03.130 think about it for your own home. Think of it 0:12:03.130 --> 0:12:05.450 for your friends. How many meals a week do you 0:12:05.490 --> 0:12:08.650 guys eat together? A lot of people will say like, oh, 0:12:08.690 --> 0:12:11.450 you know, just a few, because usually we just grab 0:12:11.450 --> 0:12:14.170 our food and then everybody goes into their own rooms 0:12:14.170 --> 0:12:17.569 and does their homework or watches, sports or whatever it is. Right? 0:12:17.610 --> 0:12:22.570 So this Power Hour is the rhythm of eating together 0:12:22.570 --> 0:12:27.090 with your spouse every single day. Now, I know people 0:12:27.090 --> 0:12:29.970 are going to say, wait a minute, that's legalistic. Or 0:12:30.010 --> 0:12:31.530 you know what? If I'm hungry, you mean I have 0:12:31.530 --> 0:12:34.090 to wait for my spouse to come home? So this 0:12:34.090 --> 0:12:36.490 is it. We never signed on the dotted line. Thou 0:12:36.530 --> 0:12:38.689 may not eat until I get here, you know, but 0:12:38.690 --> 0:12:42.290 it's just the rhythm of, hey, we normally eat dinner together, 0:12:42.450 --> 0:12:44.290 you know, obviously if you're out of town, you can't 0:12:44.290 --> 0:12:47.170 do that if you're separate. Obviously, I get that. But 0:12:47.210 --> 0:12:49.630 we will eat together. We'll wait for each other if 0:12:49.630 --> 0:12:51.470 it's reasonable. You know, in our home, it's kind of 0:12:51.510 --> 0:12:54.030 like if it's after 7:00, it's like, okay, sorry, buddy, 0:12:54.030 --> 0:12:57.309 we got to eat. But it's it's something, a rhythm 0:12:57.429 --> 0:13:00.870 that this is normal. It would feel abnormal if we 0:13:00.870 --> 0:13:04.390 didn't sit down and eat together. This could be dinner. 0:13:04.390 --> 0:13:07.670 This could be, you know, maybe you're very busy in the, 0:13:07.710 --> 0:13:09.590 in the on the evening. So you have to actually 0:13:09.630 --> 0:13:13.430 schedule a lunch date with your, with your spouse. That's okay. 0:13:13.429 --> 0:13:15.710 That's what you used to do when you're dating. Maybe 0:13:15.710 --> 0:13:18.670 it just looks like drinking your coffee together in the morning, 0:13:19.110 --> 0:13:23.110 but it is this idea that every single day we 0:13:23.110 --> 0:13:26.510 will connect over some kind of food, right? Or coffee 0:13:26.870 --> 0:13:30.790 because it gives you then, like friendship, you need friendship 0:13:30.790 --> 0:13:34.350 and companionship. And if you don't have space for that, 0:13:34.350 --> 0:13:37.350 then everyone gets busy. And then that's why you feel like, well, 0:13:37.350 --> 0:13:40.470 we don't even hardly know each other anymore. So start 0:13:40.470 --> 0:13:42.070 with that power hour. I thought about it. We've been 0:13:42.070 --> 0:13:44.949 married over 25 years. We've pretty much eaten a meal 0:13:44.950 --> 0:13:48.030 every day together since we said I do. So I thought, 0:13:48.030 --> 0:13:50.770 that is that is like 10,000 meals together. So you 0:13:50.809 --> 0:13:53.010 think to yourself, wait a minute, if I have 10,000 0:13:53.010 --> 0:13:55.890 meals with someone, I'm going to be pretty close to them. 0:13:56.010 --> 0:13:57.729 So eat together. 0:13:58.450 --> 0:14:01.650 And I know you would also say, don't answer your 0:14:01.650 --> 0:14:04.770 cell phone while you're eating even. 0:14:04.809 --> 0:14:06.890 Don't even have it on the table. Put it away 0:14:06.970 --> 0:14:09.449 so you don't even see it. That's exactly right. 0:14:09.490 --> 0:14:11.730 You know, I could not agree more with this. It's 0:14:11.730 --> 0:14:14.370 just powerful. And you know, when the kids come along, 0:14:14.610 --> 0:14:17.970 then you're eating with the kids and you're and your spouse. Yeah, 0:14:18.010 --> 0:14:20.370 and we did that through all those years. Our kids 0:14:20.370 --> 0:14:22.410 are grown now. Of course, they look back and say, 0:14:22.890 --> 0:14:25.370 those are one of the fondest memories we have sitting 0:14:25.370 --> 0:14:28.810 around the table talking about life together, you know, sharing 0:14:28.810 --> 0:14:32.170 life together. So great for the marriage, great for the kids. 0:14:32.170 --> 0:14:32.650 Yes. 0:14:32.850 --> 0:14:37.450 Now you also deal with sexual intimacy in this section. 0:14:37.530 --> 0:14:40.530 You know, I'm often asked the question, how much sex 0:14:40.530 --> 0:14:44.210 is normal or healthy for a couple? I don't know 0:14:44.210 --> 0:14:47.410 how you answer that or if you answer that, but 0:14:47.410 --> 0:14:49.280 So give us some thoughts along those lines. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:50.800 Do you believe it or not? You will find this 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.600 in the book. But I I've, I've, I'm leaning on 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.680 the research of Doctor Michael. And Shante Felton on this one. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.800 But the chapter is called but we had sex last Tuesday, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.240 you know, because for usually it's the woman. It doesn't 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:05.360 always have to be. But for the woman, it's kind 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:07.240 of like, well, wait, we did that like a long 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:10.240 time ago. Isn't that enough? And then for the husband, 0:15:10.240 --> 0:15:13.520 he's thinking like, well, no, this is something that I 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.520 want to do to connect with, you know, it's not enough. So, 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.160 you know, that has definitely been something through the years. 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:20.880 And I think a lot of people can relate to 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.120 that is okay. One person wants a certain amount and 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.480 the other person wants a certain amount. How do you 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.920 kind of meet in the middle and how much is normal? 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.400 So what they found in terms of research of what 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:37.800 was normal is their researchers found that four times every 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.080 three weeks was normal. I know some of you were like, oh, phew, 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.200 it's not four times every week. Okay, great. Four times 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.980 every three weeks. So they said one and one third 0:15:47.020 --> 0:15:50.620 time basically per week. And they also were quick to say, though, 0:15:50.660 --> 0:15:53.380 that's what is normal. It's what people are doing. It 0:15:53.380 --> 0:15:56.580 doesn't mean that that's the ideal. It's just kind of 0:15:56.620 --> 0:16:00.700 what people are doing. But they did find that 94% 0:16:00.860 --> 0:16:03.780 of those who said, hey, we are happy and satisfied 0:16:03.780 --> 0:16:08.060 with our sexual relationship. 94% of those people said they 0:16:08.060 --> 0:16:10.700 were also happy in their marriages, which which follows, like 0:16:10.700 --> 0:16:14.980 if you're having healthy physical intimacy, it lends to that 0:16:14.980 --> 0:16:18.340 you have a healthy marriage. And they also said that 0:16:18.340 --> 0:16:21.020 people who couples who had sex one time a week 0:16:21.020 --> 0:16:24.460 or more were satisfied. So these are, you know, these 0:16:24.460 --> 0:16:27.140 are things that you can look at like, okay, my goodness, 0:16:27.140 --> 0:16:29.780 maybe it's been too long. And my husband and I, 0:16:29.780 --> 0:16:32.940 we need to put, you know, I think it was 0:16:32.940 --> 0:16:35.580 Doctor David Clark who said, if you're a couple with 0:16:35.580 --> 0:16:38.660 children and you do not schedule your sex, you do 0:16:38.660 --> 0:16:41.900 not have sex, right? So sometimes in some parts of 0:16:41.900 --> 0:16:44.660 your time, of the season of life you're in, you 0:16:44.660 --> 0:16:47.600 have to put it in the calendar and not feel 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.840 unromantic about that, but feel like, okay, our relationship is important, 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.200 so I'm going to make time for this. 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.200 Yeah, no question about it. The sexual part of the 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.040 marriage is an important part of marriage. And you're right, 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.360 we do have different ideas. Most of the time in 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.600 terms of how often, etc., you know, but this is helpful. 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:07.959 My other book, 31 days to a Happy Husband. I 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:10.200 remember when I was writing that one of James's friends 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.639 was like, why do you need 31 days? All you 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:14.360 have to do is like, say, make love to your 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:17.560 husband and he'll be very happy. So, so I thought, 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.560 you know, when you think of making marriage easier, I 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.280 think for for many men, they would just think like, oh, well, 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.160 if we could be more intimate physically, that would make 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:27.480 marriage a lot easier for me. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:32.000 Yeah, yeah. One of the problems that many marriages face 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:35.600 is the change in the marriage relationship once the kids 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.600 come along. So how do you keep your marriage from 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:40.800 becoming all about the kids? 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.720 I think this is really a modern problem. I think, 0:17:44.830 --> 0:17:47.350 you know, in the days of, you know, like maybe 0:17:47.350 --> 0:17:50.190 a generation or two, it's like you saw the kids 0:17:50.190 --> 0:17:52.830 were part of the home, but they weren't the everything 0:17:52.869 --> 0:17:55.510 of the home. Right? So when a baby comes into 0:17:55.510 --> 0:17:58.310 your lives, of course, like when Ethan was born, it 0:17:58.310 --> 0:18:00.510 was like Simba and The Lion King. It was like, 0:18:00.510 --> 0:18:02.949 look who has come and all of your life revolves 0:18:02.950 --> 0:18:05.709 around keeping this baby alive. And that's okay, because you 0:18:05.710 --> 0:18:07.590 really do have to revolve around that baby to keep 0:18:07.590 --> 0:18:12.270 it alive. But once the baby turns two, five, ten, 15, 0:18:12.550 --> 0:18:15.470 you've got to realize, wait a minute. Our whole universe 0:18:15.470 --> 0:18:19.510 doesn't revolve around this child. But for a lot of us, 0:18:19.630 --> 0:18:21.550 we might not see it, but we really are very 0:18:21.550 --> 0:18:24.790 child centered. So things like this. You know me as 0:18:24.790 --> 0:18:27.390 a mom, if I need to bring my, you know, 0:18:27.430 --> 0:18:30.030 kids to school and then I need to go get 0:18:30.030 --> 0:18:32.670 them something for a sport, you know, they need something. 0:18:32.790 --> 0:18:34.869 And then I'm going to watch them play their sport, 0:18:34.869 --> 0:18:37.389 and then I'm going to run home and have make dinner. Like, 0:18:37.390 --> 0:18:38.949 I'm not going to think a thing of this. I'm 0:18:38.950 --> 0:18:40.710 just going to do it because that's what I do. 0:18:40.710 --> 0:18:44.250 I'm the mom. But if my husband, James, who is 0:18:44.250 --> 0:18:46.690 a realtor, says, hey, honey, could you look over this 0:18:46.690 --> 0:18:48.690 letter for me and just see? Does this sound right 0:18:48.690 --> 0:18:51.650 to you? I'm like, I have so much to do. Like, 0:18:51.650 --> 0:18:54.169 you're a grown man. Look at it yourself. Use Grammarly. 0:18:54.210 --> 0:18:56.810 You know, so I think sometimes if we can just 0:18:56.810 --> 0:19:00.770 think to ourselves. Do I treat my spouse with the 0:19:00.770 --> 0:19:06.130 same type of service, willingness, time, speaking their love languages? 0:19:06.130 --> 0:19:09.530 Do I do that as much for my spouse as 0:19:09.530 --> 0:19:12.770 I do it for my kids? And I think for 0:19:12.770 --> 0:19:15.210 many of us, we'd have to go, ouch. Like, I 0:19:15.210 --> 0:19:18.730 don't really do that. So when the kids have an activity, 0:19:18.730 --> 0:19:21.450 let's say, and you're trying to decide, okay, should we 0:19:21.450 --> 0:19:25.250 do soccer again? Should we go on the volleyball team? 0:19:25.330 --> 0:19:28.530 Should we play the clarinet? You know, and you're usually 0:19:28.570 --> 0:19:31.450 we're asking all these questions because we are looking through 0:19:31.450 --> 0:19:35.010 the lens of our child. But when we make those decisions, 0:19:35.010 --> 0:19:37.290 let's also ask is, how is this going to impact 0:19:37.290 --> 0:19:40.170 our marriage? Seriously? Like, how is this going to impact us? 0:19:40.210 --> 0:19:42.330 Are we going to be not able to see each 0:19:42.330 --> 0:19:45.679 other very much. Are we going to be so ragged 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:47.640 that we are kind of, you know, kind of mean 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.360 to each other? We don't have time to have date night. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.360 We don't have time for, you know, all the things 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:55.080 that we just talked about, you know, so we have 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:56.840 to ask that. How is it for the marriage? How 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.399 is it for the rhythm of the family? So these 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.720 are the kinds of questions if you are not going 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.320 on a date, because even though you have a trusted babysitter, 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:08.160 you feel like, oh, the kids don't like it when 0:20:08.160 --> 0:20:11.119 we go out, you know, that's that's a sign of 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:13.760 a child centered home that says, you know what, child 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.080 of mine? It's okay that you don't like it, that 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.200 Mommy and daddy are leaving for two hours, but we're 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:21.040 going to go ahead and do that anyway. So those 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:24.560 kinds of things kind of help us from becoming too 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:25.400 child centered. 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:30.680 Yeah. You know, I've always felt that having an intimate, marriage, loving, caring, 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.520 supportive marriage is one of the most powerful things we 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:38.120 can do for our children. Yes. You know, giving them 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.240 that kind of model is so important. 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:41.119 Totally. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:43.659 Of course, a big part of that is also learning 0:20:43.660 --> 0:20:46.260 how to listen. And in the book, you give tips 0:20:46.260 --> 0:20:50.420 on becoming a better listener. Why is listening so important? 0:20:50.500 --> 0:20:52.020 And what are some of those tips? 0:20:52.540 --> 0:20:56.460 Yeah. Listening shows. I'm interested in you. I care about 0:20:56.460 --> 0:21:00.220 you and Doctor Chapman. I thought I am a good listener. 0:21:00.260 --> 0:21:02.380 You know, I've just always thought about that. About myself. 0:21:02.380 --> 0:21:04.659 I'm a good listener. And then I realize, oh, no, 0:21:04.660 --> 0:21:07.540 I'm not a good listener. So these are the tips 0:21:07.540 --> 0:21:10.020 I learned in my own marriage. And we read a 0:21:10.020 --> 0:21:11.979 book about it. And then James told me about it. 0:21:11.980 --> 0:21:14.420 It's like, oh, yeah, that does sound like me. The 0:21:14.420 --> 0:21:17.620 first kind of listener is an assumptive listener. And that's 0:21:17.619 --> 0:21:20.780 how I am, is you assume you know what the 0:21:20.780 --> 0:21:26.300 person's talking about. So for me, I'm always finishing James's sentences. 0:21:26.740 --> 0:21:29.659 He'll say like, oh, I want to volunteer for this thing. 0:21:29.660 --> 0:21:32.459 And I'll say, oh yeah, they really need volunteers. And 0:21:32.460 --> 0:21:34.140 you're so good at this, and you'd be so great 0:21:34.140 --> 0:21:37.140 at that. And he's like, uh, actually I was going 0:21:37.140 --> 0:21:39.980 to say something totally different, you know? So, so he'll 0:21:39.980 --> 0:21:42.719 he'll joke like, uh, do you want to try again? 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.600 You know, that's kind of his line. That means, Arlene, 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.360 please stop filling my mouth with words. And please just 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:50.679 listen to me. And don't assume that you know what 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.440 I'm going to say. And please, let me finish. So, 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:56.080 an assumptive listener, if you catch yourself, you know, and 0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.120 it's I feel like it comes from this place of 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:00.200 wanting them to feel like, oh, I know exactly what 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:03.240 you're saying. I'm tracking with you. But for me, it 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:08.360 means shut your mouth. Let them finish and then comment 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:12.040 about it. So the assumptive listener. The second is the fixer. 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:13.600 And a lot of times, you know, this can be 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.520 the husband of your saying something, and then they just 0:22:16.520 --> 0:22:19.240 come in and fix it and you're thinking, I didn't 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.359 want it fixed. I just want you to listen. And 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:23.560 so that's really helpful if you just tell them, hey, 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.280 I just want to tell you about the stress I'm 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.840 feeling right now. I do not want you to fix it. 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:30.919 And a lot of times that does it. And then 0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:32.840 you can tell it and then they're like, oh, that 0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.760 sounds like a lot. And everybody's happy. And then the 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:39.600 third type is the celebrity listener. And I think we 0:22:39.600 --> 0:22:43.590 are all the celebrity listener and the celebrity listener. We're 0:22:43.590 --> 0:22:47.790 always shifting the conversation back to us. So if my 0:22:47.790 --> 0:22:51.750 husband is sharing about his terrible boss, that is being 0:22:51.750 --> 0:22:55.270 very challenging, then I'm like, oh, I remember when I 0:22:55.270 --> 0:22:57.270 had this terrible boss and I just take the whole 0:22:57.270 --> 0:23:00.270 conversation and I make it about me. And so just 0:23:00.270 --> 0:23:03.070 think of like a spotlight on the other, on the 0:23:03.070 --> 0:23:06.470 person who is talking. And when they are talking, they 0:23:06.470 --> 0:23:09.389 are the celebrity. You are not the celebrity. They are 0:23:09.390 --> 0:23:13.390 the celebrity. Let them have their moment and just be 0:23:13.390 --> 0:23:15.910 there for their moment. You don't have to turn every 0:23:15.910 --> 0:23:19.150 single one of their moments into an opportunity to talk 0:23:19.150 --> 0:23:22.750 about yourself and watch yourself. Because we all do this. 0:23:22.750 --> 0:23:25.910 We all do this. And so just be sensitive to it. 0:23:25.950 --> 0:23:28.190 You know, obviously there is give and take and it's 0:23:28.190 --> 0:23:31.310 fine to share your stories. You know, that's fine. But 0:23:31.310 --> 0:23:35.030 the idea is whoever is the speaker, you're the focus 0:23:35.030 --> 0:23:37.230 of attention, not me, the listener. 0:23:37.790 --> 0:23:40.050 Yeah, I think a lot of lot of our listeners 0:23:40.050 --> 0:23:44.970 are going are identifying with those responses that you talked about. 0:23:45.010 --> 0:23:49.450 So now your husband, James puts some interesting items on 0:23:49.450 --> 0:23:54.810 your wedding registry. What did those teach you about having 0:23:54.810 --> 0:23:56.730 different expectations? 0:23:57.130 --> 0:23:59.810 Yeah, people are very different, aren't they? So they come in. 0:23:59.850 --> 0:24:02.770 We were long distance. So I was living in Virginia 0:24:02.770 --> 0:24:05.050 and he was living in Texas when we were engaged. 0:24:05.130 --> 0:24:08.090 So I told him, you go to the superstore, you 0:24:08.090 --> 0:24:11.650 take the little scanner and you get whatever you want. Great. 0:24:11.650 --> 0:24:14.449 So I walk into the store in my city and 0:24:14.450 --> 0:24:17.130 I print out the wedding registry, and I'm reading it 0:24:17.130 --> 0:24:19.090 and I'm like, wait a minute. It had all this 0:24:19.090 --> 0:24:22.129 camping equipment, which makes sense considering our conversation earlier. So 0:24:22.130 --> 0:24:24.890 it had a tent and a little, little cooking thing 0:24:24.890 --> 0:24:26.409 and a little lamp. And I'm thinking, why in the 0:24:26.410 --> 0:24:28.290 world do we need this? You know, so I keep 0:24:28.290 --> 0:24:32.010 reading and then I read, like, bug spray. Like, there's, like, 0:24:32.130 --> 0:24:34.530 wasp like things that you would spray to get rid 0:24:34.570 --> 0:24:40.550 of wasps and ants. And then there was aspirin, like 0:24:40.710 --> 0:24:44.710 Advil and Tylenol and Tums, and I'm just getting sweaty 0:24:45.070 --> 0:24:48.189 and nervous. Right? And then I can't believe it. I 0:24:48.190 --> 0:24:50.350 think I'm I'm like, I can't believe my eyes. He 0:24:50.350 --> 0:24:52.750 has lubricant, K-Y jelly on the list, and I am 0:24:52.750 --> 0:24:57.109 just freaking out. And I think to myself, wait a minute. Okay. Oh, 0:24:57.109 --> 0:24:59.750 I get it. This must be a practical joke. He 0:24:59.750 --> 0:25:03.390 must be sending all his groomsmen to this store, and 0:25:03.390 --> 0:25:05.990 he thinks this is so funny. That sounds so like James. 0:25:05.990 --> 0:25:08.750 That's so funny. We did not have cell phones at 0:25:08.750 --> 0:25:11.310 that time. Of course, so I call. I went home, 0:25:11.310 --> 0:25:13.909 called him on the phone. Honey, that's so funny. I 0:25:13.910 --> 0:25:16.350 was just at the store and I saw your registry 0:25:16.350 --> 0:25:19.550 with the ant ant bait. And that's so funny. Like 0:25:19.550 --> 0:25:24.550 a practical joke. And he was completely silent. And he's like, 0:25:24.830 --> 0:25:27.830 what's so funny? And, like the things you put on 0:25:27.830 --> 0:25:31.350 the registry? That was funny. He's like, those are the 0:25:31.350 --> 0:25:33.950 things I want for my home. I don't want a 0:25:33.950 --> 0:25:37.109 candy dish. I don't want a set of plates. Those 0:25:37.109 --> 0:25:41.380 are practical things I need for our first apartment. And 0:25:41.380 --> 0:25:44.700 I'm like, what? So I could not believe Doctor Chapman 0:25:44.700 --> 0:25:47.220 and Chris that I was the one on the defense. 0:25:47.260 --> 0:25:49.860 Like I'm the one who has to defend that. You 0:25:49.859 --> 0:25:53.540 put Tums on our wedding registry. So I try to 0:25:53.580 --> 0:25:55.860 think of a word picture, right? Because that's what they 0:25:55.859 --> 0:25:58.460 tell you, that people will use a word picture. In 0:25:58.460 --> 0:26:00.859 our counseling, we were learning this. I said, imagine you 0:26:00.859 --> 0:26:04.100 went to the Queen and you wrapped a beautiful gift 0:26:04.100 --> 0:26:06.980 and she opened it and it was Windex. I was like, 0:26:06.980 --> 0:26:09.700 that would be inappropriate, right? So. So I guess it 0:26:09.700 --> 0:26:13.020 worked enough so that we took everything off the list 0:26:13.020 --> 0:26:16.740 except the camping equipment. So I was so pleased. But 0:26:16.740 --> 0:26:20.860 it was funny because I thought I was so right, like. 0:26:20.859 --> 0:26:24.020 And he was so wrong. And then I realized, oh 0:26:24.020 --> 0:26:27.619 my goodness, in his eyes, what he did was right. 0:26:28.020 --> 0:26:30.860 Because when we did get to that apartment, there were 0:26:30.859 --> 0:26:34.500 a lot of bugs in that Texas apartment, and we 0:26:34.500 --> 0:26:37.880 could use some Tylenol, you know, so you realize with 0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:40.680 the expectations like, oh my goodness, I think you are 0:26:40.680 --> 0:26:43.800 so wrong, but actually in your own eyes and in 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.640 your own way, you're right to so to to really 0:26:46.640 --> 0:26:49.200 give each other the benefit of the doubt that okay, 0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:52.800 your expectation is valid, just as mine is. 0:26:53.160 --> 0:26:53.600 Yeah. 0:26:59.200 --> 0:27:03.360 This is the building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast. 0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:07.040 Thanks for listening and for telling others about our conversations. 0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:09.920 When you go to five Love Languages. Com you can 0:27:09.920 --> 0:27:14.080 find more ways to strengthen your relationships. Just click the 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:17.880 resources tab and you'll find the podcast there and today's 0:27:17.880 --> 0:27:24.200 featured resource again go to five Love languages.com. 0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:26.960 Arlene, in the book you talk about various decisions, and 0:27:26.960 --> 0:27:31.840 one of those decisions is about transferring the atmosphere of 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:38.820 your home from complaining to giving thanks. Why is complaining 0:27:38.820 --> 0:27:40.340 such a danger in a marriage? 0:27:41.300 --> 0:27:44.620 Yeah, to give thanks every day. That decision. You know, 0:27:44.660 --> 0:27:47.220 think about if you have a person in your life 0:27:47.780 --> 0:27:51.700 who is always saying, oh, it's too hot. Oh, she 0:27:51.700 --> 0:27:55.500 was so rude. Oh, I can't believe they served me this. 0:27:55.500 --> 0:27:58.300 This is the wrong order. Like, do you want to 0:27:58.300 --> 0:28:01.100 be around this person? Right. Like we're like, this is 0:28:01.100 --> 0:28:04.459 not a pleasant person to be around. And I think 0:28:04.460 --> 0:28:08.140 with strangers or with casual acquaintances, even with our friends, 0:28:08.140 --> 0:28:11.340 we can show that common courtesy of of not complaining, 0:28:11.780 --> 0:28:14.540 but with our spouses, you know, and even with our kids, 0:28:14.540 --> 0:28:16.460 we can kind of let it all go loose right 0:28:16.460 --> 0:28:19.020 at home and just be grumbling and complaining. And that 0:28:19.020 --> 0:28:23.780 is a very unattractive person to be with and really 0:28:23.780 --> 0:28:26.460 not very fun to be yourself to. And so what 0:28:26.460 --> 0:28:30.060 can change that? What can transform that spirit of grumbling 0:28:30.060 --> 0:28:32.820 and complaining? And let's remember the children of Israel when 0:28:32.820 --> 0:28:34.900 they were wandering around the desert and they could not 0:28:35.050 --> 0:28:38.530 enter the Promised Land. It wasn't for those big sins 0:28:38.730 --> 0:28:43.010 of murder or idolatry like they made another calf or adultery. 0:28:43.050 --> 0:28:47.050 It was they were complaining. They had a grumbling attitude 0:28:47.050 --> 0:28:51.330 that this manna isn't enough. This quail is. We didn't 0:28:51.330 --> 0:28:53.010 really like it. We liked it the first day after that. 0:28:53.010 --> 0:28:56.090 We didn't like it. This whole cloud by day, fire 0:28:56.090 --> 0:28:59.770 by night, we're over it. Like these were miraculous ways. 0:28:59.770 --> 0:29:03.330 God was taking care of his children. And his children 0:29:03.330 --> 0:29:06.650 were like, we we don't really like this. We. And 0:29:06.650 --> 0:29:11.210 they grumbled, and you see that harsh consequence because it 0:29:11.210 --> 0:29:15.250 was the opposite of being thankful to God. Being thankful. 0:29:15.690 --> 0:29:18.210 Thank you for what I had. So in a marriage, 0:29:18.210 --> 0:29:21.810 if you can transform from oh my goodness, I can't 0:29:21.810 --> 0:29:24.050 believe you did that. You're always doing that wrong. You 0:29:24.050 --> 0:29:26.930 always leave the toilet seat up, blah blah blah blah. 0:29:26.970 --> 0:29:31.050 Instead of grumbling that we are thankful, I'm. I'm really 0:29:31.050 --> 0:29:33.730 thankful you're alive. I mean, if you have to start there, 0:29:33.730 --> 0:29:35.590 there are a are a lot of people who have 0:29:35.590 --> 0:29:38.350 lost their spouses, or their spouses are gravely ill, and 0:29:38.350 --> 0:29:41.310 they do anything for a spouse that walks around, you know. 0:29:41.350 --> 0:29:45.670 So for you, just start being grateful. Turn that to God, 0:29:45.670 --> 0:29:47.950 because that's what what God wants us to do. We 0:29:47.950 --> 0:29:50.950 know that. Give thanks to God and and start giving 0:29:50.950 --> 0:29:51.910 thanks for your marriage. 0:29:52.870 --> 0:29:56.670 It's amazing how much that could transform the atmosphere, isn't it? 0:29:56.710 --> 0:29:57.350 Yes. 0:29:57.390 --> 0:30:01.150 When you give thanks rather than complaining. Yeah, but if 0:30:01.150 --> 0:30:04.030 you have that pattern, it. You know, you may have 0:30:04.030 --> 0:30:06.790 to ask God to help me. Lord help me. You 0:30:06.790 --> 0:30:10.830 know my natural tendency here. Yeah, well, another topic you 0:30:10.830 --> 0:30:14.470 deal with is social media and how it impacts marriages. 0:30:15.070 --> 0:30:17.390 What can a couple do to help eliminate some of 0:30:17.390 --> 0:30:19.870 the harmful effects of social media? 0:30:20.910 --> 0:30:23.750 Recognizing that what you see on social media is not 0:30:23.750 --> 0:30:26.430 real life. You know, when you looked at a magazine 0:30:26.430 --> 0:30:30.030 or a TV show, you knew like, oh, they spent hours, 0:30:30.070 --> 0:30:33.070 like making their house look so nice or oh, that's 0:30:33.180 --> 0:30:35.420 like just for the camera because it's this TV show. 0:30:35.780 --> 0:30:38.820 But now we have in our pockets social media that 0:30:38.820 --> 0:30:41.420 shows us like our friends. And I say that kind 0:30:41.420 --> 0:30:44.060 of in air quotes, like people like us, like our peers, 0:30:44.060 --> 0:30:46.459 but it also shows us celebrities and all sorts of 0:30:46.460 --> 0:30:49.140 people who have, you know, that's their whole job is 0:30:49.140 --> 0:30:51.620 to make their house or their marriage look super, super 0:30:51.620 --> 0:30:54.820 amazing and happy. And when you look at that constantly, 0:30:54.820 --> 0:30:57.620 you'll think, well, I don't have that. I don't have 0:30:57.620 --> 0:30:59.900 a house like that. I don't have a cute spouse 0:30:59.900 --> 0:31:03.580 like that. I don't go to fun locales with my spouse. 0:31:03.580 --> 0:31:05.860 And all of a sudden, what does this do? We're 0:31:05.860 --> 0:31:10.420 not thankful we're comparing and we're falling short. And so 0:31:10.420 --> 0:31:13.060 if you realize, wait a minute, this is really not 0:31:13.060 --> 0:31:15.500 helping me in my marriage, because think of it, how 0:31:15.500 --> 0:31:19.180 much social media helps you? Like, oh, that really supported 0:31:19.180 --> 0:31:22.020 my marriage. You know what I mean? Like like, hopefully 0:31:22.020 --> 0:31:24.740 they could could come and they'll see something that you create, 0:31:24.740 --> 0:31:27.780 something that I create and and hopefully that will help 0:31:27.780 --> 0:31:30.380 them think, oh, you know, let's, let's do this thing, 0:31:30.380 --> 0:31:32.960 this marriage. But believe me, my social media following is 0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:36.280 a whole lot tinier than most, right? So what we're 0:31:36.320 --> 0:31:40.560 normally seeing is not supportive to your marriage. You're looking 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:43.840 at an advertisement. You're looking at something to buy. You're 0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:46.280 looking at someone that you wish you had their life. 0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:50.000 And so recognize that. And if that's a problem, take 0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:52.520 a fast. Say, hey, you know what? For one week, 0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:54.600 I'm not going to do any social media and just 0:31:54.600 --> 0:31:57.000 see what that does to your mind, to your heart, 0:31:57.000 --> 0:32:00.520 to your outlook. Be open. If you ask your spouse, hey, 0:32:00.520 --> 0:32:03.680 am I on my phone too much? Do you feel 0:32:03.680 --> 0:32:06.840 like I'm like scrolling through social media too much? Because 0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:09.880 your spouse may say, yeah, I kind of wish you 0:32:09.880 --> 0:32:12.400 were more present with me. And you'd look at me, 0:32:12.440 --> 0:32:14.360 you know, it could be sports, it could be checking 0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:16.840 stock quotes, it could be Netflix, it could be anything 0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:19.360 but be here. You know, and I talk about, like, 0:32:19.360 --> 0:32:23.000 when you go on vacation, your vacation is to be together. 0:32:23.120 --> 0:32:25.520 It's not to make a social media real. You know, 0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:27.200 a lot of us will get to a spot and think, oh, 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:29.440 this would be such a beautiful thing to post on 0:32:29.440 --> 0:32:32.700 social media. And then the whole thing becomes making this 0:32:32.700 --> 0:32:36.380 amazing thing for social media. And I say, no, take 0:32:36.380 --> 0:32:38.700 a few pictures, put your phone in your pocket and 0:32:38.700 --> 0:32:42.300 enjoy that for your spouse. He is your audience. She 0:32:42.300 --> 0:32:45.380 is your audience. Not all these thousands of followers who 0:32:45.420 --> 0:32:48.620 don't even hardly know you. So keep all these kinds 0:32:48.620 --> 0:32:51.380 of things in mind that the real relationship of your spouse, 0:32:51.380 --> 0:32:54.180 that's what's most important to tend and care for, not 0:32:54.180 --> 0:32:55.460 your social media feed. 0:32:56.580 --> 0:32:59.500 Well, we know that in marriage there are hard times 0:32:59.620 --> 0:33:03.060 and marriages are tested in the hard times. You talk 0:33:03.060 --> 0:33:06.380 about a miscarriage you had at 26 weeks. How did 0:33:06.380 --> 0:33:08.620 you and your husband navigate that loss? 0:33:09.620 --> 0:33:13.460 Yeah. You know, and and people grieve in different ways, 0:33:13.660 --> 0:33:16.620 you know. So I kind of wanted to talk about it. 0:33:16.660 --> 0:33:18.740 James was maybe a little bit more quiet about it. 0:33:18.740 --> 0:33:22.100 And there was, you know, you're at different places in it. 0:33:22.100 --> 0:33:25.900 So one might be going further along and then one 0:33:25.900 --> 0:33:28.420 might be taking a little bit longer. Right? So just 0:33:28.420 --> 0:33:31.890 be sensitive to that, that you deal with difficulties in 0:33:31.890 --> 0:33:34.850 different ways. Be available to each other. But I really 0:33:34.850 --> 0:33:38.290 think that when we lost that baby, it was such 0:33:38.290 --> 0:33:42.290 a time where God carried us. When the Lord helped 0:33:42.290 --> 0:33:45.010 us like we'd be at church and the exact right, 0:33:45.050 --> 0:33:48.250 you know, song would come, or someone would pray over 0:33:48.250 --> 0:33:50.410 us and it would be exactly what we needed for 0:33:50.410 --> 0:33:55.490 that day. So be immerse yourself with with spiritual people 0:33:55.490 --> 0:33:57.850 who love you, care about you, and who can speak 0:33:57.850 --> 0:33:59.810 truth and comfort in your life. So I think that 0:33:59.810 --> 0:34:02.890 was a huge thing, to be able to navigate that 0:34:02.890 --> 0:34:07.130 together and then to be able to, you know, have 0:34:08.050 --> 0:34:12.290 I think it's that mindset that says the difficulties will 0:34:12.290 --> 0:34:16.450 strengthen us. They won't weaken us because they can, because 0:34:16.450 --> 0:34:19.330 then you've gone through this thing together and no one 0:34:19.330 --> 0:34:21.370 else has gone through it but you, the two of you. 0:34:21.450 --> 0:34:23.330 That's it. You know, you are the ones that were 0:34:23.330 --> 0:34:25.890 in the eye of the storm. And if you can 0:34:25.890 --> 0:34:28.569 be in the eye of the storm together, come out 0:34:28.570 --> 0:34:32.150 on the other side. Boom. It just it levels up 0:34:32.150 --> 0:34:35.310 your relationship. And I know for many though, when that 0:34:35.310 --> 0:34:37.590 eye of the storm hits, it's like it just throws 0:34:37.590 --> 0:34:41.750 them opposite directions. Right. And that difficulty really harms them. 0:34:42.350 --> 0:34:46.350 So I think if you can be praying together, if 0:34:46.350 --> 0:34:49.589 you can find like, you know, like I mentioned, going 0:34:49.590 --> 0:34:53.230 to church, you know, be be regular. Don't don't skip 0:34:53.230 --> 0:34:55.430 going to church because you're going through a hard time. 0:34:55.550 --> 0:34:59.430 Go to church together and find that healing together as 0:34:59.430 --> 0:34:59.950 a couple. 0:35:00.469 --> 0:35:04.509 Yeah. Yeah. You know, another decision you talk about is 0:35:04.510 --> 0:35:08.830 the importance of serving your spouse. Now, I think there 0:35:08.830 --> 0:35:11.310 are a lot of people today who have the notion that, well, 0:35:11.310 --> 0:35:14.029 that's an old fashioned idea, serving because they have the 0:35:14.030 --> 0:35:16.430 idea of, you know, the wife is going to he's 0:35:16.430 --> 0:35:18.150 going to take advantage of me. All I've got to 0:35:18.150 --> 0:35:21.469 do is serve him. But but explain that to us. What? 0:35:21.469 --> 0:35:22.830 What is biblical service? 0:35:23.390 --> 0:35:26.150 Yeah. You look at Jesus. Right? And what do the 0:35:26.190 --> 0:35:29.460 gospels tell us? The Son of Man came to serve. 0:35:29.540 --> 0:35:32.180 We cannot get around it. So as much as we think, 0:35:32.300 --> 0:35:34.299 I don't want to serve that. I want someone to 0:35:34.340 --> 0:35:37.339 serve me, you know, or I want to be their equal. Right. 0:35:37.340 --> 0:35:39.300 That would be more like I want to be their equal. 0:35:39.300 --> 0:35:42.260 I don't need to serve them. They need to respect me. 0:35:42.260 --> 0:35:44.859 But this whole idea of, you know what? I care 0:35:44.860 --> 0:35:47.339 about you. And if there's something I can do to 0:35:47.340 --> 0:35:50.100 help you, I will. So I think it is this 0:35:50.100 --> 0:35:53.820 attitude of I will help you. It's not this attitude 0:35:53.820 --> 0:35:56.060 of like, oh, I'm just so less than and you 0:35:56.060 --> 0:35:58.940 can step all over me and I'm, I'm not even worthy, 0:35:58.980 --> 0:36:00.819 you know, to bring you your water. No, that's not 0:36:00.820 --> 0:36:03.660 that's not what I'm talking about. But it is this 0:36:03.660 --> 0:36:07.700 idea of like, hey, I'm I'm around to make your 0:36:07.700 --> 0:36:10.580 life easier. I mean, can you imagine if each spouse 0:36:10.580 --> 0:36:12.700 that was there thought of like, hey, you know what? 0:36:12.940 --> 0:36:16.219 I'm here today. I'm here to make your life easier. 0:36:16.219 --> 0:36:18.940 And if you approached it that way, you need something. 0:36:19.140 --> 0:36:21.859 How can I help you? You know my daughter, she's 0:36:21.860 --> 0:36:24.259 a sophomore in high school. She is. You know, like 0:36:24.260 --> 0:36:26.779 this particular day, she has to stay after school because 0:36:26.780 --> 0:36:30.120 she has this dance recital, so she kind of is busy. 0:36:30.120 --> 0:36:32.359 So in the morning I'll say, how can I help you? 0:36:32.600 --> 0:36:34.920 Can I, you know, usually she makes her lunch herself, 0:36:34.920 --> 0:36:36.799 all these different things, but she's got more to do 0:36:36.800 --> 0:36:38.480 to get ready. So I say, you know, how can 0:36:38.480 --> 0:36:40.960 I help you? So again, we do it kind of 0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:43.799 easily with our children, but in the same. And so 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:46.680 does that mean she's going to walk all over me? Yeah. No. 0:36:46.680 --> 0:36:49.120 As long as she has responsibilities. No, she's going to 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:51.160 be like, thank you, mom. Thank you for helping me. 0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:55.640 So for our spouses to have that same attitude. Oh, boy. Honey, 0:36:55.640 --> 0:36:58.040 you have a big day at work today. How can 0:36:58.040 --> 0:37:01.600 I help you today? You know, that's that's serving your spouse. 0:37:01.600 --> 0:37:04.600 And that's something really beautiful. And life giving. It is 0:37:04.600 --> 0:37:06.759 not demeaning or punitive. 0:37:07.680 --> 0:37:10.239 You know that that question that you worded, how can 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:13.520 I make your life easier is one of the questions 0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:17.160 that literally turned my marriage around. When I asked, my 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:20.000 wife started asking her on a regular basis, how can 0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:22.600 I make your life easier today? You know, how can 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:26.320 I make your life easier? And she typically had an idea, 0:37:26.440 --> 0:37:26.980 you know. 0:37:29.739 --> 0:37:30.980 She said, pick up the vacuum. 0:37:31.340 --> 0:37:34.060 Yeah, when I did that, you know, I mean, she 0:37:34.100 --> 0:37:38.300 she felt, you know, treasured and loved. Yeah. So yeah, 0:37:38.340 --> 0:37:42.379 that's super important. It's a Christian lifestyle, really. You know, 0:37:42.380 --> 0:37:47.060 because that's what love is all about. It's serving other people. Yeah. Now, 0:37:47.060 --> 0:37:50.259 you and your husband were on the today show, which 0:37:50.260 --> 0:37:53.900 was a dream for you. Uh, how can spouses support 0:37:53.900 --> 0:37:55.460 one another's dreams? 0:37:55.940 --> 0:37:59.219 Yeah. I think this was such a funny situation because 0:37:59.219 --> 0:38:01.339 I was asked for one of my books to come 0:38:01.340 --> 0:38:03.900 on the today show, but they said you can only 0:38:03.900 --> 0:38:06.339 come if we like your husband because we want him 0:38:06.340 --> 0:38:09.500 to come also. So they asked, does your husband have 0:38:09.500 --> 0:38:12.819 any videos of him that we can watch? And of course, 0:38:12.820 --> 0:38:15.060 my husband, he's just like a normal guy. He's not 0:38:15.060 --> 0:38:18.940 like a, you know, YouTube sensation. But he had posted 0:38:18.940 --> 0:38:22.420 a YouTube video of him making kettle corn like an 0:38:22.420 --> 0:38:25.540 instructional video of how to make kettle corn. So I 0:38:25.540 --> 0:38:28.770 thought to myself, oh my goodness. My appearance on the 0:38:28.810 --> 0:38:32.770 Today show is contingent upon this kettle corn video. So 0:38:32.770 --> 0:38:36.210 it was kind of funny, but thankfully they said, oh well, 0:38:36.210 --> 0:38:38.129 he can talk, he'll be fine. So they had him 0:38:38.130 --> 0:38:41.450 on and I thought to myself, what a husband. Because 0:38:41.450 --> 0:38:44.529 I at that time had done interviews and many of 0:38:44.530 --> 0:38:48.489 them in the past. But this was James's first ever 0:38:48.650 --> 0:38:52.690 media interview. He'd never been interviewed in his entire life. 0:38:53.010 --> 0:38:55.210 And he's going on the Today Show, you know, so 0:38:55.210 --> 0:38:57.410 it's like, go big or go home. And so I 0:38:57.410 --> 0:39:01.810 really admired that. He was like, he didn't even hesitate. Yes, 0:39:01.810 --> 0:39:03.730 I will do that. That would be great for you. 0:39:03.730 --> 0:39:06.410 I will do that. And we practiced we put little 0:39:06.410 --> 0:39:09.610 stools up in our house and I asked him questions 0:39:09.610 --> 0:39:12.170 and he sat on the stool and he answered my questions. 0:39:12.170 --> 0:39:14.690 We even set up an event at our church where 0:39:14.690 --> 0:39:17.850 we did a little informal Q&A so that people could 0:39:17.850 --> 0:39:20.090 ask us questions, and he could get used to giving 0:39:20.090 --> 0:39:22.690 answers like, I mean, this is amazing. This is my 0:39:22.690 --> 0:39:26.190 husband that he will like, oh, let me learn. I 0:39:26.190 --> 0:39:28.149 will grow. I will do it. I will help you. 0:39:28.190 --> 0:39:31.710 So having this attitude, you know, of. Hey, if if 0:39:31.710 --> 0:39:36.510 this is important to you, then it's important to me too. Now, 0:39:36.750 --> 0:39:39.790 I give this this little side note, though. If it's 0:39:39.790 --> 0:39:43.069 the kind of dream that has become an obsession, right? 0:39:43.110 --> 0:39:46.310 It's like everything is about this dream. And the marriage 0:39:46.310 --> 0:39:48.390 is falling apart and the kids are falling apart. And 0:39:48.390 --> 0:39:51.469 you never sleep anymore because you're pursuing this dream. You know, 0:39:51.469 --> 0:39:55.310 dreams should unite you as a couple, not divide you. 0:39:55.310 --> 0:39:57.990 And if you're finding that, yeah, it's hard, but it's 0:39:57.989 --> 0:40:00.710 actually dividing us, you know? Then it's time to talk 0:40:00.710 --> 0:40:03.029 about it. Is this a dream that we both can 0:40:03.030 --> 0:40:06.549 get behind to support one another? And it should be 0:40:06.550 --> 0:40:10.550 something that enhances your marriage and not detracts from it. 0:40:11.030 --> 0:40:15.190 Yeah. Yeah. Well, we talked a bit earlier about the 0:40:15.190 --> 0:40:19.430 importance of fun in a marriage. And I know in 0:40:19.430 --> 0:40:22.270 your book you have a long list, really, of activities 0:40:22.270 --> 0:40:25.689 that husbands and wives can try together. And of course 0:40:25.690 --> 0:40:27.850 we all have different interests and that sort of thing. 0:40:27.850 --> 0:40:29.850 But could you share some of the things you and 0:40:29.850 --> 0:40:33.450 your husband do for fun that might help the rest 0:40:33.450 --> 0:40:33.930 of us? 0:40:34.290 --> 0:40:37.130 Yes, and you will find a very long list in 0:40:37.130 --> 0:40:39.210 the book. That is something you're going to find, something 0:40:39.210 --> 0:40:41.489 that you have in common. So for my husband and I, 0:40:41.489 --> 0:40:44.530 it has been hard to find fun things because he's 0:40:44.530 --> 0:40:48.290 much more athletic and I am not. He is very 0:40:48.290 --> 0:40:51.570 outdoorsy and I am not, you know, so it's like, 0:40:51.570 --> 0:40:53.650 oh my goodness, what are we going to do? So 0:40:53.650 --> 0:40:56.089 part of the thing is having the attitude like, okay, 0:40:56.090 --> 0:40:58.689 if you like it, I'll try it. So we have 0:40:58.690 --> 0:41:05.130 done everything from rollerblading to skiing to martial arts to 0:41:05.170 --> 0:41:09.009 dancing to ultimate frisbee, to, you know, all these different things. 0:41:09.450 --> 0:41:11.569 And what we have kind of settled on right now. 0:41:11.570 --> 0:41:14.089 We are in the age of dancing, so we are 0:41:14.090 --> 0:41:17.170 going to a ballroom dance class. So we're learning how 0:41:17.170 --> 0:41:21.650 to waltz and foxtrot and salsa and tango and all 0:41:21.650 --> 0:41:25.279 this stuff. And it's very funny because the first time 0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:28.200 we went, you know, it's this huge ballroom and there 0:41:28.200 --> 0:41:31.000 are lessons there, but it's all, you know, people probably 0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:34.680 age 60 and up who dance really well. So we 0:41:34.680 --> 0:41:37.120 got there and we do not know what we're doing. 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:39.360 It's as if a neon sign was over our heads, 0:41:39.360 --> 0:41:42.720 like we are new and we are terrible, you know? 0:41:42.760 --> 0:41:45.600 So all these people came up to us and they're 0:41:45.600 --> 0:41:48.120 trying to help us, and we're trying to imitate what 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:51.200 they do. I mean, I thought for sure that first lesson, 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:53.359 I'm like, we are never coming back here. Like, we 0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:56.160 are really bad at this. But you know what? We 0:41:56.200 --> 0:42:00.320 kept going and we're a year in and we're actually 0:42:00.360 --> 0:42:03.080 decent where we can get around the floor now. And 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:07.000 we figured it's something we can do together. It's something 0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:10.200 it is fun. Like we both think it's fun. And 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:12.279 then we realize as we get older, like, you can 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.480 keep doing this. So for us right now, it's dancing. 0:42:15.480 --> 0:42:18.000 We play ultimate Frisbee with our kids, which is kind 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:19.960 of like soccer with the Frisbee. So a lot of 0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:23.259 running and you're scoring goals and we started that during Covid, 0:42:23.260 --> 0:42:26.620 playing every Sunday afternoon. And believe it or not, since 0:42:26.620 --> 0:42:31.820 2020 till today we are still playing every afternoon and 0:42:31.820 --> 0:42:35.180 with other families and people and it's it's we never 0:42:35.219 --> 0:42:37.700 want to go by. We I mean, Lucy and I, 0:42:37.700 --> 0:42:39.900 we my daughter and I, we are like, oh, we 0:42:39.900 --> 0:42:41.819 have to go again. We're so lazy. We don't want 0:42:41.820 --> 0:42:43.900 to go. But every time we go, we have a 0:42:43.900 --> 0:42:46.620 lot of fun. So sometimes with the fun, you kind 0:42:46.620 --> 0:42:48.379 of drag your feet on it. Like, I don't want 0:42:48.380 --> 0:42:50.219 to go do that. A lot of effort. But after 0:42:50.219 --> 0:42:53.500 it's over, you're like, that was hilarious. That was really fun. 0:42:53.500 --> 0:42:56.820 So those are a few of the fun things we do. 0:42:56.860 --> 0:42:58.660 Well, I think that long list that you have in 0:42:58.660 --> 0:43:00.660 the book is going to be helpful to some people, 0:43:00.780 --> 0:43:03.180 because there's some who are hearing the things you and 0:43:03.180 --> 0:43:05.219 James have done and say, oh, I could never do that. 0:43:05.260 --> 0:43:05.540 You know. 0:43:05.540 --> 0:43:07.020 I don't want to do that. Yeah, there are much 0:43:07.020 --> 0:43:09.660 more quieter things to do too. 0:43:09.700 --> 0:43:12.420 Yeah, but the but the list covers a lot of 0:43:12.420 --> 0:43:15.100 personality types. I think that people will find those to 0:43:15.100 --> 0:43:18.899 be helpful. Now, you and your husband, James, have been 0:43:18.900 --> 0:43:22.689 married now for 26 years. And you say that of 0:43:22.690 --> 0:43:25.770 all ages, at all ages in a marriage, people should 0:43:25.770 --> 0:43:31.209 be preparing for the golden years. So how how do 0:43:31.210 --> 0:43:33.930 you and how do you prepare for the golden years? 0:43:33.969 --> 0:43:35.250 And what are you all doing? 0:43:35.890 --> 0:43:38.730 Yeah, we're so short term sometimes, right? We just think like, 0:43:38.730 --> 0:43:41.489 how can I get through the day without realizing, hey, 0:43:41.489 --> 0:43:45.210 the habits I have today that affects the quality of 0:43:45.210 --> 0:43:47.529 my life tomorrow. You know, and when we think of 0:43:47.570 --> 0:43:50.890 these senior years, golden years, you know, now, James and 0:43:50.890 --> 0:43:52.649 I are in our 50s. So now it's not as 0:43:52.650 --> 0:43:54.610 we used to think, that 55 plus thing where they 0:43:54.610 --> 0:43:56.450 were really old people. Now we're like, oh no, those 0:43:56.450 --> 0:43:59.489 people are not old at all. Those are very young people. 0:43:59.890 --> 0:44:04.049 So how can we prepare for those things? And part 0:44:04.050 --> 0:44:06.689 of it is liking each other, right. So that when 0:44:06.690 --> 0:44:09.610 your kids leave and you're empty nesters, you still like 0:44:09.610 --> 0:44:12.730 one another. Well, how do you do that? How what 0:44:12.730 --> 0:44:14.569 what made you like them in the first place? You 0:44:14.570 --> 0:44:17.970 had fun together. You cared about each other. You had conversations. 0:44:17.969 --> 0:44:20.989 You had novel experiences. So some of some of the 0:44:20.989 --> 0:44:23.750 things you can do to prepare now for those golden 0:44:23.750 --> 0:44:28.390 years is keep being together like, you know, decide, obviously 0:44:28.390 --> 0:44:31.549 I'm going to stay married, but then really keep showing up, 0:44:31.670 --> 0:44:34.670 go to the date nights, you know, make that a priority. 0:44:34.950 --> 0:44:39.029 Try novel experiences whether it's you know, that we it 0:44:39.030 --> 0:44:42.270 doesn't have to be an athletic pursuit. It could be 0:44:42.270 --> 0:44:46.070 a cooking class. You know, try a novel experience together 0:44:46.070 --> 0:44:48.430 so that you're used to growing and learning so that 0:44:48.430 --> 0:44:51.709 when you're in your later years, you still have that 0:44:51.710 --> 0:44:54.310 rhythm that you can keep learning and growing that that 0:44:54.310 --> 0:44:57.629 would be fun. You know, they they talked about in 0:44:57.630 --> 0:45:00.750 a book about how what makes a Happy Retiree by 0:45:00.750 --> 0:45:04.390 Wes Moss. And they talked about the happy retirees have 0:45:04.390 --> 0:45:08.710 3.6 core pursuits together. So in other words, they have 0:45:08.710 --> 0:45:12.270 about 3 or 4 activities they like to do together 0:45:12.270 --> 0:45:17.270 that could be taking grandkids out, playing chess, you know, 0:45:17.310 --> 0:45:20.649 going on vacation to a, you know, to Hawaii. You know, 0:45:20.650 --> 0:45:23.410 so they. But there are things they like to do together. 0:45:23.410 --> 0:45:26.650 So if that's what makes us happy in the golden years, 0:45:26.650 --> 0:45:28.850 why not have a little practice now, right? So? So 0:45:28.850 --> 0:45:31.690 do those things together. So that when it comes time, 0:45:31.690 --> 0:45:33.370 you're used to doing those things. 0:45:33.890 --> 0:45:35.330 You know, the big thing now with a lot of 0:45:35.330 --> 0:45:36.730 our friends is pickleball. 0:45:37.170 --> 0:45:40.570 That's right. Yeah, exactly. Have you given it a try, 0:45:40.610 --> 0:45:41.489 Doctor Chapman? 0:45:41.530 --> 0:45:43.569 I have not given it a try. No, I have 0:45:43.570 --> 0:45:45.489 to be honest, I have not, but so many of 0:45:45.489 --> 0:45:47.530 our friends have. And of course, some of our friends 0:45:47.530 --> 0:45:51.010 have also gotten injured in pickleball. 0:45:52.489 --> 0:45:54.330 It comes at a bit of a cost. Yeah. 0:45:54.330 --> 0:45:57.810 You're right. Well, Arlene, this has been fun chatting with 0:45:57.810 --> 0:46:00.530 you again. Of course, I've always enjoyed being with you 0:46:00.530 --> 0:46:03.610 and James and your family and interfacing with them along 0:46:03.610 --> 0:46:06.890 the way. And the books you and I have written together. 0:46:06.890 --> 0:46:09.170 I've always enjoyed doing that, but it's so good to 0:46:09.170 --> 0:46:11.169 have you with us today, and thanks for writing this 0:46:11.170 --> 0:46:14.330 book that really focuses on marriage. And I think whether 0:46:14.330 --> 0:46:17.129 couples are dating and thinking about marriage, this book would 0:46:17.130 --> 0:46:20.239 be a good book to work through together, or whether 0:46:20.239 --> 0:46:22.640 you've been married for a while. Either way, I think 0:46:22.640 --> 0:46:25.040 it's going to be helpful. So again, thanks for being 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:25.840 with us today. 0:46:26.320 --> 0:46:28.040 Thank you so much. It's been so fun. 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:32.360 Again, our featured resource is the book Making Marriage Easier 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:36.359 How to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. It's 0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:39.200 written by our guest, Arlene Pelikan, and you can find 0:46:39.200 --> 0:46:43.280 out more at Building Relationships us. Again, go to Building 0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:45.799 Relationships us. 0:46:45.800 --> 0:46:49.359 And next week, how do you live like Jesus in 0:46:49.360 --> 0:46:51.160 a non Jesus world? 0:46:51.600 --> 0:46:54.800 Author and former president of Moody Bible Institute, Doctor Joe 0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:58.040 Stoll joins us in one week. Well, a big thank 0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.200 you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice. Backing 0:47:01.480 --> 0:47:04.719 building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of 0:47:04.760 --> 0:47:08.839 Moody Radio in Chicago in association with Moody Publishers. Thanks 0:47:08.840 --> 0:47:09.560 for listening.