S1: What is the shortest distance between two points? Well, geometry
S1: tells us it's always a straight line, but with God,
S1: that could be really different. Stay with me and we'll
S1: talk about that in just a moment. Hello, friends. Welcome
S1: to Open Line, Moody Radio's Bible study across America. My
S1: name is Michael Riedel. I'm the academic dean and a
S1: professor of Jewish studies and Bible at Moody Bible Institute.
S1: I am so grateful to be joining you around the
S1: radio kitchen table. We're talking about your questions about the Bible, God,
S1: and the spiritual life. If you have a question and
S1: you'd like to call, now is the time. The phone
S1: number here is (877) 548-3675. Let me give that to you
S1: one more time. You can write it down if you like. (877) 548-3675.
S1: Tricia McMillan is our producer. Omar Mendoza is our tech
S1: guy handling all these, handling the board and all things technical. Rihanna.
S1: Rihanna and Ananda are answering the phones today. Again, the
S1: phone number (877) 548-3675. Let me tell you what happened this morning.
S1: I was. In Akron area last night at an event
S1: for Moody Bible Institute. I went to bed as soon
S1: as the event was over. Got up at 330 in
S1: the morning to head back to my home so I
S1: would be here a couple of hours before the program
S1: began to go to the. I have an in-home studio.
S1: That's where I was going to be doing the program from.
S1: And everything was on target. I actually I set the
S1: the the map program in my car and it said
S1: I would arrive at 8:30 a.m. at 825. I was
S1: five minutes from my home and there was a road closure.
S1: And so I thought, okay, I'll just go around the
S1: block and go to this other part to enter the
S1: road there. Nope. Close there. Uh, the very first road closure,
S1: I said, I'm not sure where to go from here.
S1: And the people there at the road closure because there's
S1: a triathlon going on. They said, we don't care because
S1: I said I didn't know where to go. They said,
S1: we don't care. I thought that was a funny answer.
S1: Then I tried another route to get into the the street,
S1: and there was a police car there blocking off the traffic.
S1: And I went to the police officer and I asked
S1: him about how am I supposed to get to my
S1: home if this road is closed? And he kind of
S1: looked at me funny and he said, you know, you
S1: really can't get there from here. And I thought, what
S1: do you mean? I can't get there from here? And
S1: I had to drive about 45 minutes around the town
S1: I live. I never knew where I was going. I'd
S1: go one place and there'd be a road closure. I'd
S1: go another place, and there was a road closure. It
S1: took me 45 minutes to make that five minute trip.
S1: And it made me think of a message I had
S1: heard many, many years ago by Don Sinukuan, who is
S1: a professor of preaching out at Talbot School of Theology.
S1: When he taught at Dallas, he gave a message that
S1: was called the shortest distance between two points is a
S1: zig zag. And he talked about the wilderness wandering in
S1: particular when Israel first left Egypt, how instead of taking
S1: the people in Exodus 13, God says, I won't take them.
S1: Verses 17 through 19 on the the fastest, quickest route
S1: because they'll see they'll have to come up through Philistine
S1: territory to go to the Promised Land, and they'll be afraid,
S1: and they won't want to make that trip. And so
S1: I'm going to take them down by the Red sea.
S1: He took them on a zigzag if you follow the route,
S1: and that was what was best for them. And then
S1: today I certainly had a zigzag route to my home.
S1: It made me so anxious because I really needed to
S1: get home so I could be here to do the program.
S1: But I kept thinking, as long as I keep my focus,
S1: I will be able to get home. As long as
S1: I keep the goal in sight. As long as I
S1: keep my address in the Google Maps program, I will
S1: be able to get home. And it sure took me
S1: a while. But I did get home. It took me
S1: a zigzag, but I got home and that made me
S1: think of our walk with the Lord. That sometimes we
S1: want to go on the fastest route. However, God has
S1: better plans for us. Alternate ways that will get us
S1: home to the goal safely get us to where we
S1: need to be safely, but not the most. Not the
S1: quickest way. Just the way that he deems best for us.
S1: And we won't always know why. That is why God
S1: wants to do it that way instead of another way.
S1: And I thought, that's a great reminder for us, because
S1: on our walk with the Lord, there's going to be roadblocks.
S1: There's going to be obstructions. They're going to be. Holes
S1: in the potholes in the ground, all sorts of things
S1: that will change our direction in with our walk. And
S1: it's not because God doesn't have our best interests at heart.
S1: It's because he knows what we need and where we
S1: need to be. But how do we get to the goal,
S1: even with the obstructions, even with the difficulties? It also
S1: made me think of Hebrews chapter 12, verses one and two.
S1: It says, therefore, since we have such a large cloud
S1: of witnesses surrounding us, let us lay aside every weight
S1: and the sin that so easily ensnares us. And then
S1: here's what it says let us run with endurance the
S1: race that lies before us, keeping our eyes on Jesus,
S1: the source and perfecter of our faith. And that's what
S1: I kept thinking of this morning, because I had the goal,
S1: the object before my eyes, my home address. That's where
S1: I needed to go. And there are all sorts of turns,
S1: all sorts of obstructions, all sorts of ways to get here, detours.
S1: But because I kept my eye on the goal, because
S1: I fixed my eye on that, I was able to
S1: get here. And the same thing in our walk with
S1: the Lord. No matter what the zig zag is, no
S1: matter what the detour, whatever the obstruction, the difficulty we face.
S1: This passage reminds us that we need to keep our
S1: eyes fixed on the Lord Jesus, who is the source
S1: and perfecter of our faith, and that will bring us
S1: home in the fastest in God's timing. The best way
S1: for us. And that's the great reminder that I had
S1: this morning on my excitement on the roads. Before we
S1: go to the phones, I want to mention that we
S1: have a really great resource this this month. You know,
S1: people wonder all the time, what kind of books do
S1: I need to have? Well, I think it's great that
S1: we build a basic library, and our current resource is
S1: one of those books that we need to have. It's
S1: a Bible dictionary when you wonder who are these people
S1: in the Bible? I just looked up this person I
S1: don't know. Or where is this place that's mentioned? Or
S1: what's this event that's cited? What's this holiday holiday that's
S1: being spoken of? If you have a Bible dictionary, you
S1: can look it up. And so when you give a
S1: gift of any size this month to open line, we'd
S1: like to say thanks by sending you the Ultimate Bible Dictionary.
S1: It's published by B and H, the same publisher that
S1: produced the Holman CSB. My favorite Bible translation, the Ultimate
S1: Bible Dictionary, is easy to carry. It's small, it's easy
S1: to use. It's just a great resource. And if you'd
S1: like a copy, it's yours. When you give a gift
S1: of any size. If you'd like to give a gift,
S1: go to our website openlibrary.org. You can give there, or
S1: you can call (888) 644-7122. That's (888) 644-7122. I hope you'll do this.
S1: I love this resource. Uh, we're going to talk with
S1: Jeff in Indiana right now listening on WGN. Welcome to
S1: Open Line, Jeff. How can I help you?
S2: Good morning. Michael. Um, my question is on Isaiah 57
S2: one and two. It says the righteous man perishes and
S2: no one lays it to heart. Devout men are taken
S2: away while no one understands. For the righteous man is
S2: taken away from calamity. He enters into peace. They rest
S2: in their beds, who walk in their uprightness. Some of
S2: the translations I read talk about children in this passage
S2: instead of men. Is it talking about young people dying
S2: before their time or. I just need some direction. Please.
S1: I need to look up that verse in the Hebrew.
S1: Hang on a second here. I'm, uh, turning to Isaiah 57.
S1: In the Hebrew, uh, in verse one. Uh. Well, uh,
S1: where it says the righteous man perishes. It doesn't say, uh,
S1: man or child. It says the righteous perish and no
S1: man takes it to heart. And I don't think it
S1: gives you age. Let me see the second usage. Uh.
S1: The righteous man for the righteous is taken away from evil.
S1: Same thing. The righteous. It should be translated, the righteous person. Uh. And, uh,
S1: he enters into peace. It's not about age. It's. It's
S1: about character. Uh, so here's what I would say. The
S1: peace that a person, it doesn't matter their age. But
S1: we often think that people have to live a long life.
S1: God takes us at the right time in his hands.
S1: Life and death. He knows the right time. And that's
S1: if we know the Lord. That's when we enter into peace.
S1: You know, there's a reason this is called the Veil
S1: of Tears. There's some challenges about living now. I want
S1: to live a long life, and I'm grateful for every
S1: year that I have. I'm grateful for being with my family. Uh,
S1: I almost died, uh, quite early, about 20 years ago,
S1: a little earlier than I anticipated. Anticipated. And I was
S1: so grateful when I didn't. And I remember calling my
S1: friend and saying, wow, I'm so happy to be alive.
S1: He said, oh, you'd be happier dead. And I thought, well,
S1: that's really true because I'd be with the Lord. But
S1: God had purposes for me to be here. Um, I
S1: thought my wife still needs me. My kids maybe. Don't know,
S1: but they needed me still. And, uh, there are things
S1: I still had to do for him. And so God
S1: knew the timing, and he spared my life. But for
S1: any person that goes to be with the Lord, that's
S1: the right time. And that's what this is saying, that
S1: they rest in their beds, each one who walked in
S1: his upright way, he enters into peace or she enters
S1: into peace. It's God's timing that is best. That's what
S1: that verse is about. Gives us encouragement about knowing that
S1: when we go to be with him, it's the right time,
S1: don't you think?
S2: Yes. Thank you.
S1: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for your call. Really appreciate it. Uh,
S1: we're going to take a break here, and when we
S1: come back, we'll take more of your calls. The phone
S1: number (877) 548-3675. That's (877) 548-3675. Give us a call with your
S1: question about the Bible, God or the spiritual life. This
S1: is open line with Michael Ray. We'll be right back.
S1: So stay with us. And we're back. My name is
S1: Michael Melnick. This program is called Open Line, and we
S1: talk about your questions about the Bible, God and the
S1: spiritual life. And I am so glad to see our
S1: team here. Tricia McMillan is our producer and Omar is here.
S1: I appreciate I, I see them on the screen. They
S1: smile at me when I mention their names. I always
S1: like that. Uh, they're really part of the team. And
S1: one of the things I really appreciate is that when
S1: people write to the program, they so often tell me
S1: how much they appreciate the whole team and everyone that participates, uh,
S1: whether it's phone screeners, engineers, producers, no matter who it is,
S1: they recognize that this is not a one man operation.
S1: It's a team. And the team is pretty broad because
S1: without listeners calling in with their questions, well, we wouldn't
S1: have a program at all. They're part of the team
S1: as well, and every listener who benefits grows in their
S1: walk with the Lord and their understanding of the word.
S1: They're part of the team as well. And then there
S1: are some really special people who are part of the
S1: team because they have become kitchen table partners. I so
S1: appreciate them. Uh, every one of them who give monthly,
S1: they give monthly so that we can be on the
S1: air every week, uh, teaching and studying the word together.
S1: And as a special thank you for them. What we
S1: do is Trish and I produce a Bible study moment
S1: every other week. It's a audio Bible study designed exclusively
S1: for our kitchen table partners. Get it in the in
S1: your email. Click on it. Get to listen. It's about
S1: ten minutes long. And I think it's just a way
S1: of us saying thanks. We appreciate you so much. We
S1: want to encourage you with the word. And if you're
S1: listening and you may have given a gift occasionally, uh,
S1: if there's a resource that you're interested in or you
S1: may have never even given before, but you appreciate the program,
S1: if that's something that you want to continue, perhaps you'll
S1: consider becoming a kitchen table partner as well. That's pretty
S1: easy to do. All you have to do is call
S1: 8886447122886447122 or go to open line radio.org. And you too
S1: can become a kitchen table partner. If you even think
S1: about it, we'd really appreciate it. We're going to talk
S1: with Scott in Havelock, North Carolina listening on. Welcome to
S1: Open Line. Scott. How can I help you today?
S3: Good morning Michael. Um, my question revolves around the verse
S3: that says, uh, absent from the body present with the
S3: Lord when we die as a Christian, um, when our
S3: soul actually departs and goes to the Lord. Do you
S3: think that at that time we're conscious and we know
S3: that we're with the Lord? Or are we still basically
S3: sleeping until the rapture?
S1: What? Why would you think we're sleeping till the rapture?
S3: Well, I don't know. I've heard, you know, so many
S3: things that say, you know, we're sleeping until the Lord
S3: comes back. But then I hear absent from the body
S3: present with the Lord. So I'm. I mean, I'm thinking
S3: that our eternity in heaven begins at the moment that
S3: we die.
S1: So I'm pressing you a little bit here, Scott. My
S1: friend Scott, this is what I want to know. Why?
S1: Where have you heard that? We're sleeping and not conscious.
S3: Well, I think it was, if I remember correctly. Um.
S3: I can't think of his name. Um.
S1: So it's a a preacher. Is that what you mean,
S1: a preacher or a teacher or something like that? Okay.
S3: Yeah, it was a it was a preacher. No, it
S3: was a preacher. Yeah. Um.
S1: Well, let me tell you where that misunderstanding comes from.
S1: You're absolutely right. Absent from the body. Present with the Lord.
S1: Even think about Lazarus. Uh, who? When he died, he
S1: was utterly conscious of where he was being comforted by Abraham. Uh,
S1: and even, uh, his the rich man, even though he
S1: wasn't with the Lord, he was conscious of what was
S1: going on. I know that's a parable, but it's a
S1: reflection of reality. So of course we're conscious when we're
S1: present with the Lord. The. The basis of this idea
S1: of soul sleep until the resurrection is from first Thessalonians 413,
S1: because it keeps using the word asleep as a euphemism
S1: for death. It says, for we do not want you
S1: to be uninformed, brothers, concerning those who are asleep, so
S1: that you will not grieve like the rest who have
S1: no hope. And then it says, God will bring with
S1: him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. And then
S1: it says in verse 15, we will certainly have no
S1: advantage over those who have fallen asleep. Why? Because the
S1: dead in Christ will rise first, and then we who
S1: are still alive will be caught up together with them
S1: in the clouds. And so they fail to understand that
S1: this is just a euphemism for physical death. And so
S1: when it says we're asleep, the reason it says that
S1: is because when we look at a dead body, We
S1: can see that that dead body looks like they're asleep.
S1: And so that's why Paul uses that gentler term rather
S1: than dead. He uses the word asleep. But here's the
S1: little clue that a lot of people miss. Now, this
S1: is talking about the return of the Lord at the rapture. Right? Uh,
S1: that the dead in Christ will rise first, the dead
S1: in the Messiah rise first, and then we who remain
S1: will be caught up. Snatched. That's the word that, uh,
S1: u is used there that we get the word rapture
S1: from in Latin, but we're caught up, uh, or snatch.
S1: I call that the great snatch. But back in verse 14,
S1: here's what it says. Since we believe that Jesus died
S1: and rose again in the same way, God will bring
S1: with him those who have fallen asleep through Jesus. So
S1: the depiction there is when we die. Our immaterial part,
S1: the spiritual part of us goes to be with the Lord,
S1: and we're conscious of it. When he descends, he will
S1: descend with us, with those who have died with their spirits,
S1: and then their bodies will be resurrected and reunite right
S1: there up as the Lord descends from heaven. That's when
S1: we will be resurrected. The resurrection isn't a wake up
S1: from sleep. It's a reunion, a reunification of our immaterial
S1: part with our material part. That's what happens at the
S1: rapture for members of the body. Uh, the the of
S1: of Messiah. Okay, that's what's going on there. And that's
S1: where the misunderstanding comes in. Here's what what I find
S1: people do is very often people who are teaching things
S1: that aren't accurate. They pick one verse, they misinterpret it,
S1: and they ignore the rest of Scripture. The rest of
S1: Scripture we have is that when someone dies, they go
S1: to be with the Lord and they're conscious of it.
S1: And that's what Philippians one says. Paul says that to
S1: live is Messiah, to die is gain. He says it
S1: would be better if he could for him, if he
S1: could go to be with the Lord. But he needed
S1: to remain for the sake of the Philippians and the
S1: ministry he had with them. Second Corinthians five absent from
S1: the body is present with the Lord. So yeah, you
S1: got that right. But it's the immaterial part of us
S1: that goes to be with the Lord. It's conscious. And
S1: then when the resurrection happens at the rapture, the physical
S1: body is resurrected and reunited with that immaterial part, the spirit.
S1: And that's what happens. There's a great reunification that happens
S1: at the resurrection. Does that help, Scott?
S3: Awesome. Thank you so much.
S1: Yeah. Great. I'm so glad. And by the way, this
S1: is I think we missed the point. People argue about
S1: the rapture, they argue about soul sleep, which they shouldn't.
S1: Here's the thing that so often when people lose someone
S1: they love, they fall into the depths of despair. Their
S1: grief is so intense. I completely understand that. But we
S1: also need to remember that if that person knew the Lord,
S1: that there's going to be that great reunion, not just
S1: of the immaterial part with the material, but of all
S1: of us together, whether we are alive or whether we're asleep.
S1: We're all going to be together forever with the Lord.
S1: There's going to be a great reunion. And that's why
S1: the passage says, we don't grieve as those who have
S1: no hope. If we had no hope, our grief would
S1: be far worse. But we have hope. It's not that
S1: we don't grieve, but our our grief is mixed with
S1: hope of a great reunion one day, and that gives
S1: us a great deal of comfort. Okay. Okay. Thanks for
S1: your call, Scott. We're going to talk to Robert in
S1: Fort Lauderdale. Listening on. Welcome to Open Line, Robert. How
S1: can I help you today?
S4: Hi. Um. Yeah, my question is, I was right. I
S4: was reading judges this morning, and in judges chapter ten, uh,
S4: it talks about, uh, uh, Israel going after other gods.
S4: And in verse 13 it says, I will, uh, God says,
S4: I will deliver you no more. And then, um, he
S4: also says in verse 14, let them deliver you in
S4: the time of your distress. Then God changes his mind.
S4: In verse 16, he says he could bear the misery
S4: of Israel no longer. And in verse 16, my question is, uh,
S4: they put away the foreign gods from among them and
S4: served the Lord. If that repentance was so sincere, why? Uh,
S4: I don't know if you have an answer for it,
S4: or I just want your commentary on it. Why did
S4: Israel not just destroy those gods and serve the Lord?
S4: It says in the Scripture, it says they just put
S4: them away. Meaning to me as they put them on
S4: a shelf. So when they feel like it, they have
S4: access to them again.
S1: Well, you actually don't know how they put them away,
S1: nor do I. It could be that they smashed them
S1: and that's how they put them away. It could be
S1: that they buried them and that's how they put them away. Uh,
S1: it depends on how easy or hard it would be
S1: to to destroy them. And it seems to me that
S1: the word put away means they got rid of them.
S1: And it could be they got rid of them through destruction.
S1: Or it could be they got rid of them through burial.
S1: It could be they got rid of them by throwing
S1: them in the river. I don't know how they got
S1: rid of them, but. But they got rid of them. Okay.
S5: Okay. Right. Yeah.
S1: I'm not, I'm not. I don't think this means they
S1: they put them on the shelf to wait for the
S1: time where they can pull them out again. That doesn't
S1: seem to be what the text is saying.
S5: Uh, okay. So. Okay. All right. Thank you. Good, good.
S1: I'm so glad. Thanks for your call. Hey, uh, one
S1: of the really fun things that we're going to do
S1: is I am going to go to Israel in September,
S1: September 7th through the 18th. And when I go, uh,
S1: we have a group of people. There's only a few
S1: spots left. And today or this week is the last week, uh,
S1: that we have this trip open. So if you are interested,
S1: I think we only have like 4 or 5 spots
S1: left on this trip. If you're interested in joining me,
S1: it's safe. Uh, the best place to go is go
S1: to open line radio.org. Scroll down. You'll see a link
S1: to my personal web page if you'd like to join
S1: us this September in Israel, we'd love to have you
S1: join us. There's only a few spots left, so don't
S1: miss out on very little time. Uh, stick with us.
S1: We're going to come back with the mailbag in just
S1: a moment. Uh, you're listening to Open Line with Michael Ray.
S1: Stay with us. We'll be right back. Welcome back to
S1: Open Line. It's time for the Far Eastern Broadcasting Company mailbag.
S1: The Febc mailbag. I'm so grateful for Febc because they
S1: partner with Open Line to bring you the weekly Febc mailbag.
S1: Febc is a wonderful organization. It brings the gospel to
S1: people through media and also personal engagement. You should really
S1: check out this ministry. It's febc. And when you're there,
S1: you can find their podcast. It's called Until All I've
S1: Heard featuring Ed Cannon. I know you're going to love it,
S1: so check out febc. And joining me right now with
S1: the Febc mailbag is Tricia McMillan. Hey, Tricia. Hello. Well,
S1: I see you brought a partner today. Someone to work
S1: with you.
S6: I did, I brought a special program observer today. It
S6: is my ten year old son, Duncan. Duncan loves the Bible.
S6: And so I said you should write up a question.
S6: And he was like, okay, so he's got five. We're
S6: not going to ask five. Um, but but that's.
S1: Going to be a special program.
S6: He's my Bible reader and knows knows the Bible. And
S6: so even the questions he came up with Just off
S6: the top of his head were, um, ones that often
S6: adults will call in with. And so I was like, okay,
S6: that's great. Yeah.
S1: That's great. Hey, Duncan, how are you doing?
S7: I'm doing good.
S1: Good. I'm glad. I'm glad you're there. Uh, it's always
S1: fun when, uh, when, uh, your mom brings in one
S1: of the kids, and usually it's Annie. So today it's you, Duncan.
S1: That's pretty exciting. Uh, is this your first time coming
S1: to open line?
S7: Yes, I think it is.
S1: Yeah. And what grade are you in, Duncan?
S7: Um, I'm going into fifth grade.
S1: You just finished fourth?
S7: Yep.
S1: Wow. That's pretty exciting. Do you have any big plans
S1: for the summer?
S7: Well, we're going to Tennessee this summer.
S1: Oh. That's great. You're going to have a lot of
S1: fun there. That's a lot of fun. Well, why don't
S1: you go ahead and ask your question?
S7: Uh, my first question is, why did Jesus speak in
S7: parables instead of just telling them?
S5: Well.
S1: I think that sometimes we forget that so much of
S1: the Bible is in story form. Now they're true stories,
S1: but they're its story form. And I think it's because people,
S1: for the most part, learn best. Historically, we know this
S1: through stories. And so the the Lord starts telling stories
S1: in the book of Matthew starting in Matthew 13. And
S1: parables are true to life stories with a spiritual message.
S1: And in verse 11 of, well, let's start with verse ten.
S1: I think it's interesting because the disciples asked the very
S1: same question you asked Duncan. It says in verse ten,
S1: the disciples came up and asked him, why do you
S1: speak to them in parables? Don't you think that's interesting?
S1: They're asking the very same question that you are asking.
S1: And the Lord answered them, because the secrets of the
S1: kingdom of heaven have been given for you to know.
S1: But it's not been given to them, for whoever has
S1: more will be given to him. And the one and
S1: he will have more than enough. But whoever does not
S1: have even what he has will be taken away from him.
S1: So here's the point the Lord makes. One of the
S1: reasons that he speaks in parables is to reveal the
S1: truth to people who are open. It helps us if
S1: we're open to him, if we are listening to him,
S1: if we want to learn from him. He tells the story,
S1: these true to life stories, and it makes the spiritual
S1: truth seem all the more real, all the better. But
S1: if a person doesn't want to hear from the Lord,
S1: it's got a closed mind. They think, what are all
S1: these silly stories? And they don't want to hear them.
S1: And it conceals the truth that hides it from them.
S1: So the point of parables is to make it easier
S1: for people like you and hopefully like you. I know
S1: it's like your mom, hopefully for me that because we
S1: love the Lord, we hear the stories and we learn
S1: from them and we grow. But if a person doesn't
S1: love the Lord and they're kind of cynical, what happens
S1: is they hear the story and they think that's a
S1: silly story. I'm even going to bother with it and
S1: the truth is hidden from them. So that's the point.
S1: It either reveals the truth or conceals the truth that
S1: either explains the truth or it hides the truth. It
S1: depends on our heart and how we receive the truth. Okay.
S7: Okay.
S1: Good. That's. That was a really great question. Uh. Thank you. Tricia.
S1: Did anyone else have any questions?
S6: Yes, we did have a couple others. One of them
S6: is from Shirley, who wrote us on Facebook and wanted
S6: to know where the apostles got the baskets for the
S6: food at the feeding of the 5000.
S1: Mhm. They probably went to target.
S6: I'm.
S1: Guessing. I don't know.
S6: Well what I realized with this question is it can
S6: seem like this is just a thing of curiosity. However,
S6: knowing how people lived at that time, it, it seems
S6: like it would have been more likely that in the
S6: same way that people today may just carry a large
S6: purse or a backpack and they just carry them around
S6: with them, that maybe they just had baskets with them,
S6: like maybe that was just a normal thing that they
S6: would bring, I don't know.
S1: Yeah, they might have brought some things that were they
S1: may not look like baskets like you have when you
S1: put bread out at a meal, but they may have
S1: had some woven things that they carried about with them
S1: so they could carry things. And those may have been
S1: the baskets that, that people had. You know, we don't
S1: know who lived nearby and ran and got baskets. Skits
S1: that there are all sorts of options. This is this
S1: is one of those, uh, questions that people ask. And, uh.
S1: I always want to say, you know, if if that
S1: were important, it would have been told to us, but
S1: it wasn't. I'll tell you what's important. How many people
S1: got fed.
S6: Right.
S1: With five loaves and two fish? Right. That's the part
S1: I think it's kind of funny when we get caught
S1: up in where the baskets come from. I want to
S1: know where the fish and loaves came from. That's the
S1: amazing part, right?
S6: So that's more the miracle of of what was going
S6: on and what, what we are to remember from it.
S1: Yeah. Uh, you know, so often, uh, I trust that
S1: there were really baskets and they came together. Uh, we
S1: don't want to become cynical and say, oh, this story
S1: can't be true. Where'd they get all those baskets? I
S1: think the harder thing to believe, but I do believe it,
S1: is that five loaves and two fish became a meal
S1: for 5000 plus. That's that's what really should stretch our faith.
S6: Yeah, yeah. Which when you think about it, is just
S6: incredible that. Yeah, that, that that just came from, um,
S6: this little boy's lunch and, you know, I mean, as
S6: a mom that's reading way too much into it here,
S6: but like, as a mom, knowing it's like, oh, I
S6: don't know how long I'll be gone. Here's a couple
S6: snacks or, you know, like, whatever, whoever that mom was
S6: who sent him with a little snack, you know, not
S6: knowing the impact of it. And then to have all
S6: of the leftovers, which I think is even crazier to me, um,
S6: that that there were so, so much leftover food.
S1: So, so let me tell you, I went to there
S1: was a thing that Billy Graham did in Central Park
S1: in New York City. It was called An Afternoon in
S1: the Park with Billy Graham. And it was an outreach.
S1: It wasn't a full week or anything like that. It
S1: was just one afternoon. And they take an offering and
S1: I'll tell you who took the offering. It was Ron
S1: Hutchcraft who should be familiar to many of our Moody
S1: radio listeners. Yeah. And Ron gets up there. And at
S1: the time, Ron was in the New York City area,
S1: and he gets up and I didn't know what he
S1: was going to say. He says four words, I want
S1: your lunch. And and, you know, everyone had brought bag
S1: lunches because we were going to be in the park
S1: all afternoon. And then what he talked about is, can
S1: you imagine if we took your lunches, how many people
S1: we could feed? But now think about five loaves, two fish.
S1: And what the Lord did with that when he said
S1: to that little boy, I want your lunch. Give it here.
S1: Or one of the disciples told him. And then here's
S1: the thing. That's amazing how God can take anything we
S1: give him and enlarge it. If he if we take
S1: our spiritual gifts and we say, Lord, use these. He
S1: enlarges it. If we take our physical gifts that we
S1: bring to him, they he can take them and enlarge them.
S1: It's I'm not trying to be crass here, but, you know,
S1: we're at the end of our fiscal year at Moody,
S1: and we're hoping to finish in the black. And one
S1: of the things that I could say to anyone listening,
S1: if you gave a gift to Moody Radio, uh, or
S1: to Moody Bible Institute friends, God can take that gift,
S1: like those five loaves and two fish and really enlarge it. Uh,
S1: and we would really, really appreciate it. So, uh, I
S1: know you didn't expect me to say that, but I
S1: was really thinking about it. How when we give, God
S1: takes it and uses it in a great way.
S6: Yeah. So, yeah. That's great. Thank you. Did you want
S6: to do one more or you want to do one? Okay.
S1: No.
S6: All right. Next one is from Cheryl in Ohio. Listens
S6: to CRF. Is the Old Testament speaking to the Jewish
S6: people only? And is the book of Romans through Philemon
S6: only for Gentiles? She doesn't say Gentiles or Gentiles.
S1: Yeah. The book of Romans is predominantly written to Romans.
S1: I'm sure there were Jewish believers in that congregation. So
S1: it's a mixed crowd. But it's he says in Romans 11,
S1: I'm writing to you who are Gentiles with this warning.
S1: Don't become ignorant or don't be ignorant, or don't become
S1: arrogant toward the branches. The the Jewish believers. So that's, uh,
S1: obviously he's addressing that to Gentile believers. But the scriptures,
S1: the oracles of God in Romans three, they are. What
S1: advantage has the Jew great in every respect? It says
S1: in Romans three, for to them were Given the oracles
S1: of God. In a sense, the Jewish people became the
S1: stewards of the Scripture. The Hebrew Bible. And so they
S1: had to steward that. Even like when we're we've been
S1: reading Eva and I and listening to sermons on Obadiah,
S1: Obadiah is about Edom, but it wasn't written to Edom.
S1: It was written to Israel to give Israel hope about
S1: God's handling of Edom for what they're for, the sins
S1: that they committed. And so, yeah, I think in a sense, uh, the,
S1: the Bible teaches that the Hebrew Bible's was given to
S1: the Jewish people, and they were the stewards of it
S1: so that everyone can read it, Jew or Gentile, and
S1: benefit from it. And the same thing with the book
S1: of Romans. Uh, he specifically says in Romans 11 he's
S1: writing to Gentiles. However, it was a mixed church, and
S1: I'm sure there were Jewish people who read it as well.
S6: So it does not mean that we should not read
S6: it and cannot learn and apply things from those other.
S1: Of.
S6: Course, things.
S1: Yeah. If the Jewish people are the stewards of the book,
S1: they're stewarding it so that other people who aren't Jewish
S1: can read it. That's that's the key. Yeah. So, yeah. Well,
S1: thank you. And thank you, uh, for bringing your assistant in.
S6: Yes. You're welcome.
S1: Duncan, thanks for coming. We'll talk to you next hour.
S1: The mailbag. Uh.
S7: You're welcome.
S1: And, uh, we're going to go right back to calls now. Uh,
S1: if you'd like to give a call, the phone number (877) 548-3675.
S1: We'll take your call and talk to you about your
S1: questions about the Bible, God and the spiritual life. That
S1: was Tricia McMillan and Duncan. I'm Michael Ray. We'll be
S1: right back. Welcome back to Open Line. You know, Israel
S1: is in a war that the nation didn't start, didn't want,
S1: didn't anticipate. It came as a result of the horrific
S1: October 7th assault by Hamas when they murdered more Jewish
S1: people in one day since the Holocaust. And now this
S1: has gone on for more than 600 days. And people
S1: are wondering, what does the future hold? Well Chosen People Ministries,
S1: one of our ministry partners, uh, is offering a special
S1: book called Israel's Glorious Future. This book details God's faithfulness
S1: to his covenant promises made to Israel in the past.
S1: It has biblical prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the future.
S1: God's word reveals that despite current difficulties, Israel's future is
S1: certain and glorious. And if you'd like a free copy
S1: of the book Israel's Glorious Future, just go to Open
S1: Line Radio open line radio.org. That's our website. Open line radio.org.
S1: Scroll down. You'll see a link that says a free
S1: gift from Chosen People Ministries. Click on that and you'll
S1: be taken to a page where you can sign up
S1: for your very own free copy of Israel's Glorious Future.
S1: And we're going to go right back to the phones,
S1: and we're going to talk to Michael in New Jersey
S1: listening online. Hello, Michael. How are you?
S8: Doctor, I don't look at your old friend Michael Cohen
S8: from Brooklyn, uh, currently living in exile in new Jersey.
S8: Love to you and Eva. You know, I have a
S8: love back now I have I have ten questions, but
S8: I'll only ask one.
S5: Okay, good.
S8: Okay. I even thought of, like, more while I was on, uh,
S8: listening to, um. Here's my question. This always bothered me. Okay.
S8: It's in Daniel 1013, and I almost could swear that
S8: the same thing happened to Paul. It talks about like
S8: a mission that Daniel had. And, um, he was delayed
S8: for three weeks, 21 days, because there was a whole
S8: fight in heaven between Michael the Archangel and the fallen
S8: angels or whatever. You know, Satan the prince.
S1: The Prince of Persia. Yeah. Yeah.
S8: Right. But we know that that's, you know, that's really
S8: in the spiritual realm. But yeah, it's really what was
S8: the big you know what I mean? What was the
S8: big deal? Like why, you know, why couldn't he just
S8: blow him away or God, just, you know, blow him
S8: away and that's it. Yeah. Well, the same thing happened
S8: to Paul. I almost I'm almost. I think the same
S8: thing happened to Paul. Maybe I'm wrong.
S1: Well, he asked three times for a thorn in his
S1: flesh to be removed, and God said no. Uh, but
S1: he did ask three times.
S5: No.
S8: Uh, okay.
S5: So.
S1: Well, here's the thing. I think, uh, Daniel ten is
S1: a great Old Testament illustration of spiritual warfare. And Daniel
S1: prayed and it says from the first day, verse 12,
S1: that you purposed to understand and to humble yourself before
S1: your God. Your prayers were heard. I have become. I
S1: have come because of your prayers. But the Prince of
S1: the Kingdom of Persia opposed me for 21 days. So, uh,
S1: Daniel prayed. God answered, but the prince. Now, this is
S1: where we talk about in Ephesians six principalities and powers.
S1: But behind kingdoms there are angels. Like Michael. The archangel
S1: is the angel that protects Israel. And there is this
S1: evil prince, an evil angel, fallen angel that's there with Persia,
S1: obstructing the angel from God and the angel from God. Uh,
S1: had to, had to call for. And after three weeks,
S1: finally a stronger angel, Michael, came and and brought the
S1: message through. So here's the thing. I think it's a
S1: lesson about spiritual warfare that sometimes when we pray, God
S1: is sending the answer immediately.
S5: Right?
S1: But the enemy is obstructing it. And so what do
S1: we have to do? The Lord said we have to
S1: pray without, uh, without losing heart. We have to persist
S1: in prayer and not lose heart. And that's, uh, one
S1: aspect of spiritual warfare. And the other aspect of it
S1: is Daniel had seen a vision and he wanted to
S1: understand it. And the angel was coming to explain the vision,
S1: the vision that was revealed in Scripture. And I think
S1: so often, uh, the the enemy wants to obstruct our
S1: understanding of Scripture. And so we have to persist in
S1: trying to understand what it says by reading it as
S1: best we can. So here's what I think is interesting, Michael.
S1: When we think of spiritual warfare, we think of kind
S1: of real, uh occultic. Uh, kind of.
S5: Uh, right.
S1: Battles. But what is this one about? It's about prayer
S1: and understanding the word. That's what it's about. And and
S1: I think when we get discouraged and don't want to
S1: pray because we haven't heard an answer yet, that's spiritual warfare.
S1: It's why we have to persist in prayer. When we
S1: don't understand the scriptures, I say, let's read it again,
S1: because that's part of the spiritual warfare that we're undergoing
S1: and ask the Holy Spirit. Ask God, through His Holy Spirit,
S1: to open our eyes to understand truth. I think more
S1: spiritual warfare has to do with prayer and reading Scripture
S1: than it does with, uh, things like the movie called
S1: The Exorcist. Do you understand?
S5: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's much.
S1: Much more mundane than what people think. So, uh.
S5: Yeah. Anyway.
S8: Just one just one more second. That's a good answer.
S8: My only thing like this is what bothers me. Okay? That, like,
S8: when I witnessed the people. You know that not believe
S8: whatever I always say. Like that Satan is in charge
S8: of this world, in charge of the media. And he
S8: makes it seem like he is, like, all powerful. And
S8: in reality, I tell him that Satan is like a
S8: lighted match And God is like a thousand atom bombs.
S8: And I almost feel like it's a bad like witness.
S8: Almost like to go like, hey, God. Like, why do
S8: you present yourself? Like, it's almost like. You know what
S8: I mean?
S1: Well, you know, Erwin Lutzer always says that even the
S1: devil is God's devil. And even these things of of obstruction,
S1: God is sovereign over that, too. And part of it is,
S1: what does it do in Daniel's life? He persisted in
S1: prayer for three weeks. And one of the things that
S1: God wants us to learn, for example, when prayers are obstructed,
S1: is to persist in prayer. Don't give up. When when
S1: our understanding of Scripture is or people say, ah, you know,
S1: I have a hard time understanding the Bible, I'm not
S1: going to read it. No, keep reading it. Keep looking
S1: for it. God wants us to learn persistence, staying power. Uh, perseverance.
S1: And so often we give up too easy. And one
S1: of the reasons why God allows this kind of spiritual
S1: warfare is to develop staying power in us in our
S1: walk with the Lord. That's the only way we can grow.
S1: So don't think that God's losing. He's got a plan,
S1: even when this kind of thing happens. Does that help?
S8: Amen. Thank you so much. Thank you, I love you.
S8: Love to.
S5: Love you.
S1: To talk to you later. Uh, well, friends, that's that's
S1: the first hour of Open Line. I can't believe it's
S1: gone so quickly, but there's a second hour of Open
S1: line coming up on most of these stations. If you
S1: don't get it on your station, you can always listen on, uh,
S1: the website. Or you can get the Moody Radio app,
S1: or you can get the podcast. I hope you'll do
S1: one of those. Go to our website, online radio.org. That
S1: page has all the links you're looking for, whether it's
S1: linked to the Israel trip that I'm doing in September
S1: or our current resource, or how to become a kitchen
S1: table partner. You'll find it there. Stay with us. Second
S1: hour of Open Line is coming up straight ahead. Open
S1: line with Doctor Michael Melnick is the production of Moody Radio,
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.