1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,680 S1: Are you believing the lie your enemy wants you to believe? 2 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:13,080 S1: Our guest today calls it the big lie. And that 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,600 S1: lie is you cannot change. Where you are now is 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:19,840 S1: where you're always going to be this thing in your life, 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,320 S1: this place where you're stuck. You're always going to be there. 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,400 S1: Our guest today knows the big lie because he bought 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,720 S1: into it for years, and then he realized there were 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:36,880 S1: soul chains binding him that needed to be broken. Let's 9 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:40,040 S1: talk about the truth and the freedom you can find. 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,640 S1: Straight ahead on Chris Fabry live program from the Heart 11 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:46,280 S1: to the Heart for the heart online at Chris live.org. 12 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,240 S1: Our team is back together. Ryan is back. Tricia is here. 13 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,360 S1: Lisa and Josh are helping out, and we are able 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,760 S1: to come to you today because of people like Joyce 15 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,279 S1: who reached out and gave a gift. And we're going 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,520 S1: to send her the book by Doctor John Perkins, One 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,960 S1: Blood parting words to the Church on Race and Love. 18 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,800 S1: Don't miss this one. We have only about a little 19 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,840 S1: over a week left in this thank you offer. Joyce 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,000 S1: left a note. And if you give a gift today, 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,840 S1: do that, especially if you give it online. Just type 22 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:16,640 S1: us a note up there, she said. I've listened to 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,959 S1: Moody Radio for years. I enjoy the topics and stories 24 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,800 S1: shared by your featured guests and listeners. I look forward 25 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,240 S1: to reading this thought provoking book. Over the years, I've 26 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:32,240 S1: attended several multicultural cultural churches. To my disappointment, the political 27 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,440 S1: divide has manifested in the church in ways that makes 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,080 S1: one wonder how Christ followers can be so different in 29 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,440 S1: their beliefs. When the scriptures clearly teach us how to 30 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,440 S1: love one another. Chris, I enjoy your show. I feel 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,880 S1: the warmth your show exudes. Thank you Joyce. I love 32 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,360 S1: Jesus and strive to be more like him daily. I 33 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,480 S1: pray for racial reconciliation, but I believe it will only 34 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:58,640 S1: happen when Christians believe God's Word and obey it. And 35 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,960 S1: I think what Joyce put her finger on is the 36 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,160 S1: very heart of what Doctor John Perkins not only wrote about, 37 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:09,160 S1: but he lived it. Let me send you a copy 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,840 S1: of One Blood. Give a gift of any size. Eight. Six. Six. Nine. Five. 39 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:20,919 S1: Fabry's the number. (866) 953-2279. Or just go to Chris fabry.org. 40 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,480 S1: Spell the last name. FABRY if you dare. Chris Fabry 41 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,760 S1: live dot ORG. And thanks for your support of the 42 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,400 S1: radio backyard fence. So I was minding my business a 43 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,440 S1: couple of weeks ago. I had the whole week off 44 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,320 S1: and I decided I made a promise I'm not going 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,880 S1: to do any work. I'm going to relax. I'm going 46 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,120 S1: to get refreshed. I'm going to retool. I'm going to repair. 47 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:45,480 S1: And I went to the mailbox and I opened a 48 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,799 S1: book titled Breaking Through. And I thought, well, this looks interesting. 49 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,440 S1: I'll open it and I'll read a little of it, 50 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,800 S1: and then I'll get back to my vacation. Big mistake, 51 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:59,520 S1: big mistake. Because what Alan Parr is talking about in 52 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,000 S1: this book is something we all have. He calls them 53 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:07,320 S1: soul chains. And I would say of him, he is 54 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,760 S1: like the friends of Lazarus. When Lazarus was raised from 55 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:15,560 S1: the dead, he came out shuffling because he was wrapped up. 56 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,840 S1: And Jesus said, loose him, unwrap him. And I think 57 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,640 S1: that is what Allen Parr does in this book, breaking 58 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:30,800 S1: Through how Ordinary Believers Experience Extraordinary Freedom. Allen's a speaker, minister, author, 59 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,520 S1: creator of the YouTube channel The Beat, Biblical Encouragement and Truth. 60 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,000 S1: Graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary. He served as a worship 61 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,000 S1: worship pastor, pastor, Christian education co-founder with his wife, Jennifer, 62 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,280 S1: of the nonprofit equip. They live with their two children 63 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,360 S1: in Texas near Dallas. Allen. Welcome to the program. How 64 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,240 S1: are you doing today? 65 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,560 S2: Well, Chris, I am so honored to be here. Thank 66 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,480 S2: you so much for having me. And I am sorry 67 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,320 S2: and maybe not sorry for ruining your vacation. And I 68 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,360 S2: appreciate the time you took to read the book, and 69 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,360 S2: I'm so glad it had an impact on you and 70 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,400 S2: looking forward to sharing with, uh, with your, uh, audience today. 71 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:11,240 S2: Thanks for having me. 72 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,280 S1: Sorry. Not sorry, I like that. Okay. So do you 73 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,320 S1: agree with me about the whole Lazarus thing that we 74 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,320 S1: all are kind of wrapped and we need people, we 75 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,840 S1: need Jesus to do this for us to raise us 76 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:25,680 S1: from the dead, first of all. But we need other 77 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,080 S1: people to loose us. Do you agree with that? 78 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,400 S2: I do, I do, I really do believe that all 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,119 S2: of us have something that's that's that's binding us. That's 80 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,440 S2: got us bound, if you will. Uh, you know, people 81 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:42,400 S2: call them strongholds, they call them, you know, different things. 82 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,400 S2: And as, as you, as you mentioned in the book, 83 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,720 S2: I call them soul chains. But I think all of 84 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,760 S2: us need to have this kind of, um, experience in 85 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:53,000 S2: our lives where, yes, we're saved, but we need to 86 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,250 S2: be freed. And I think that's the kind of the 87 00:04:55,250 --> 00:04:57,570 S2: premise of the book is that, yes, we can be Christians, 88 00:04:57,570 --> 00:05:00,650 S2: we can be forgiven. We're going to heaven. We've stamped 89 00:05:00,650 --> 00:05:03,770 S2: our ticket. That's great. But let's not just limp through 90 00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:07,410 S2: the Christian life. Uh, let's live it with a sense 91 00:05:07,410 --> 00:05:08,810 S2: of freedom and purpose. 92 00:05:09,890 --> 00:05:11,089 S3: But what you just. 93 00:05:11,089 --> 00:05:14,890 S1: Said to limp through is where a lot of people are, 94 00:05:14,890 --> 00:05:18,010 S1: and they have bought into the lie that the enemy 95 00:05:18,010 --> 00:05:20,650 S1: has fostered. Or maybe they just believed it themselves, and 96 00:05:20,650 --> 00:05:23,690 S1: the enemy is using it. And that is you can't change. 97 00:05:23,690 --> 00:05:26,409 S1: This is how it's always going to be. I mentioned 98 00:05:26,410 --> 00:05:29,610 S1: before we went on the program a friend who is 99 00:05:29,850 --> 00:05:32,930 S1: addicted to pornography and has said, this is always going 100 00:05:32,970 --> 00:05:34,930 S1: to be with me. I'm never going to be able 101 00:05:34,930 --> 00:05:38,890 S1: to break out of this. And that's not true, is it? 102 00:05:39,610 --> 00:05:41,290 S2: No it's not. You know, and in the book I 103 00:05:41,290 --> 00:05:45,409 S2: talk about that as being a limiting, limiting, limiting, excuse me, belief. 104 00:05:45,410 --> 00:05:49,529 S2: And it's just we don't realize that when we have 105 00:05:49,529 --> 00:05:53,410 S2: that type of self-talk and we are convinced That there 106 00:05:53,410 --> 00:05:55,210 S2: are certain things that are just going to be a 107 00:05:55,210 --> 00:06:00,570 S2: part of us. Particularly demonic soul chains. Um, we are 108 00:06:00,570 --> 00:06:05,049 S2: already handing the devil, uh, you know, an upper hand 109 00:06:05,050 --> 00:06:13,010 S2: because basically we are really, in a sense, basically saying 110 00:06:13,010 --> 00:06:16,690 S2: the opposite thing that God said in his word about freedom. 111 00:06:16,730 --> 00:06:18,849 S2: I mean, he said that, you know, whom the son 112 00:06:18,850 --> 00:06:21,050 S2: sets free is truly free indeed. And he died on 113 00:06:21,050 --> 00:06:22,530 S2: the cross so that we may have life and have 114 00:06:22,529 --> 00:06:24,929 S2: it more abundantly. And so when we say those things, 115 00:06:24,930 --> 00:06:28,850 S2: we don't realize that we are contradicting exactly what the 116 00:06:28,850 --> 00:06:31,810 S2: Word of God says in terms of what Jesus can do, 117 00:06:31,850 --> 00:06:34,970 S2: wants to do, is able to do in our lives, 118 00:06:34,970 --> 00:06:36,250 S2: and that's to set us free. 119 00:06:37,089 --> 00:06:41,050 S1: And I almost believe that somebody, everybody who breaks out 120 00:06:41,089 --> 00:06:44,250 S1: of those chains has to have somebody who believes in them, 121 00:06:44,290 --> 00:06:47,289 S1: has to have somebody who will walk with them through 122 00:06:47,570 --> 00:06:52,250 S1: the chain breaking experience because, you know, to do that 123 00:06:52,250 --> 00:06:55,450 S1: on your own. I mean, the Holy Spirit is powerful, 124 00:06:55,450 --> 00:06:57,730 S1: but a lot of times he uses, well, just like 125 00:06:57,730 --> 00:07:01,810 S1: Jesus and Lazarus, he Jesus didn't do that himself. Poof, 126 00:07:01,810 --> 00:07:05,050 S1: all those things are gone. He used the people around 127 00:07:05,050 --> 00:07:08,289 S1: Lazarus to loose him from those. So you're one of 128 00:07:08,290 --> 00:07:09,450 S1: those today, right? 129 00:07:09,930 --> 00:07:12,530 S2: Yes. You know, and I think that's why I spend 130 00:07:12,530 --> 00:07:14,490 S2: so much time in the book. When we get to 131 00:07:14,530 --> 00:07:18,370 S2: the part of the book about the the process, the 132 00:07:18,370 --> 00:07:21,890 S2: process of breaking free and just for those who may 133 00:07:21,890 --> 00:07:23,770 S2: pick up the book or may not, but the book 134 00:07:23,770 --> 00:07:26,410 S2: is broken up into three parts. The first part is 135 00:07:26,410 --> 00:07:28,170 S2: the problem, which I'm sure we'll get into this a 136 00:07:28,170 --> 00:07:31,090 S2: little bit later, but it's the problem where we diagnose 137 00:07:31,090 --> 00:07:34,050 S2: the problem. I get people to identify what the chains 138 00:07:34,050 --> 00:07:37,610 S2: are that have been holding them back, how to identify those, 139 00:07:37,610 --> 00:07:41,330 S2: how they actually form in our lives. And then the 140 00:07:41,330 --> 00:07:43,330 S2: next part of the book is the process. And this 141 00:07:43,330 --> 00:07:46,450 S2: is where we get into, okay, I understand the problem. 142 00:07:46,450 --> 00:07:48,450 S2: I know that I've got these things, I accept it, 143 00:07:48,450 --> 00:07:52,210 S2: I've identified them. But now what is the actual biblical roadmap? 144 00:07:52,210 --> 00:07:55,130 S2: The process, uh, through which I need to walk as 145 00:07:55,130 --> 00:07:57,610 S2: a Christian to try to get free and experience this 146 00:07:57,610 --> 00:08:01,530 S2: abundant life that Jesus promised. And then speaking of the third, uh, 147 00:08:01,570 --> 00:08:03,530 S2: thing is the promise. And this is where I paint 148 00:08:03,530 --> 00:08:07,610 S2: the picture of what does freedom actually look like? So 149 00:08:07,610 --> 00:08:10,930 S2: people can kind of future pace and get an idea of, okay, wow, 150 00:08:10,930 --> 00:08:13,170 S2: this is the life that I that God has for me. 151 00:08:13,170 --> 00:08:16,570 S2: But speaking of this, this problem, this process, one of 152 00:08:16,570 --> 00:08:18,690 S2: the things that I talk about so much is the 153 00:08:18,690 --> 00:08:22,010 S2: importance of community. And I talk about that as being 154 00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:25,690 S2: one of the spiritual weapons. It's oftentimes in a one 155 00:08:25,690 --> 00:08:29,290 S2: that we, um, uh, tend to minimize, if you will, 156 00:08:29,330 --> 00:08:32,490 S2: but it's a powerful spiritual weapon that the enemy, excuse me, 157 00:08:32,490 --> 00:08:35,610 S2: that God has given us access to that can help 158 00:08:35,610 --> 00:08:38,969 S2: us break free. But in order to tap into that community, 159 00:08:39,010 --> 00:08:41,450 S2: we have to be willing to be open, transparent, and 160 00:08:41,450 --> 00:08:45,329 S2: vulnerable and share our struggles and concerns and need for 161 00:08:45,330 --> 00:08:46,650 S2: prayer with other believers. 162 00:08:47,330 --> 00:08:49,890 S1: And I think you put your finger on. Exactly. Because 163 00:08:49,890 --> 00:08:53,930 S1: we've talked about process versus outcome here. I want the 164 00:08:53,929 --> 00:08:56,490 S1: outcome that I want as fast as I can get it. 165 00:08:56,490 --> 00:08:58,810 S1: But and I see the problem. I got the problem 166 00:08:58,809 --> 00:09:00,970 S1: in my life. I want the promise. I don't like 167 00:09:00,970 --> 00:09:05,290 S1: the process, but it's, it's so important to go through that. 168 00:09:05,290 --> 00:09:08,050 S1: And that's why I'm excited for you to know about 169 00:09:08,090 --> 00:09:10,490 S1: Alan Parr today. You can find out more about him 170 00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:15,050 S1: at Chris Fabry live.org. Breaking through is our featured resource 171 00:09:15,050 --> 00:09:21,730 S1: how Ordinary Believers Experience extraordinary Freedom. It's at Chris Fabry live.org. 172 00:09:21,770 --> 00:09:24,450 S1: Click through today's information. You'll see more about Alan. He's 173 00:09:24,450 --> 00:09:27,929 S1: the creator of the Beat the YouTube channel. You can 174 00:09:27,929 --> 00:09:32,209 S1: find out more right there. Chris Fabry live.au more straight 175 00:09:32,210 --> 00:09:44,410 S1: ahead on Moody Radio. Somebody's looking for breakthroughs at you. 176 00:09:45,770 --> 00:09:50,290 S1: Resource for you by Alan Parr. Breaking through how ordinary 177 00:09:50,290 --> 00:09:56,090 S1: believers experience extraordinary freedom is our featured resource of Chris Fabry, live.org. 178 00:09:56,250 --> 00:09:59,770 S1: I think the easiest way and best way to describe 179 00:09:59,770 --> 00:10:02,610 S1: what he's talking about as far as soul chains. And 180 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:05,570 S1: a lot of people will say stronghold or some kind 181 00:10:05,570 --> 00:10:08,770 S1: of bondage that you're in. The best way to do 182 00:10:08,770 --> 00:10:12,850 S1: that is to to hear from Alan himself. So get 183 00:10:12,850 --> 00:10:18,610 S1: in the Wayback Machine 16 years ago, 2010. You are single. 184 00:10:18,610 --> 00:10:22,010 S1: You've wanted to be married for a long time. What 185 00:10:22,010 --> 00:10:24,130 S1: was wrapping you up at that time? 186 00:10:25,570 --> 00:10:28,890 S2: Oh man. So many different things. Um, yeah. I mean, 187 00:10:28,929 --> 00:10:35,410 S2: I wanted to be married, uh, since I was, you know, 18, 19, 188 00:10:35,410 --> 00:10:39,890 S2: 20 years old, uh, went through a very, very painful, uh, engagement, 189 00:10:39,890 --> 00:10:42,650 S2: ended up having to call that off whenever I was 190 00:10:42,650 --> 00:10:46,650 S2: 24 years old. Figured, oh, I made meet another girl 191 00:10:46,650 --> 00:10:49,610 S2: and get married the next year or two and. 192 00:10:50,210 --> 00:10:53,130 S1: I gotta jump in anytime I hear of a of 193 00:10:53,170 --> 00:10:56,050 S1: a wedding that's called off as I want to hear more. 194 00:10:56,090 --> 00:10:58,370 S1: You don't have to tell me specifics, but did you 195 00:10:58,410 --> 00:11:00,090 S1: make the decision to call it off? 196 00:11:00,370 --> 00:11:03,569 S2: I did, you know, I went to seminary and, uh, 197 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:06,170 S2: as a single guy and didn't really think too much 198 00:11:06,170 --> 00:11:10,729 S2: of that at 24. But as I got into seminary, 199 00:11:11,010 --> 00:11:13,930 S2: I realized that everybody was married. All of my friends 200 00:11:13,929 --> 00:11:16,610 S2: were married, and all of the seminary professors were married. 201 00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:18,570 S2: And not only were they married, some of them were younger, 202 00:11:18,570 --> 00:11:20,250 S2: just came out of Bible college. A lot of them 203 00:11:20,250 --> 00:11:24,730 S2: went to Moody Bible College, went over to Dallas Theological Seminary, and, um, 204 00:11:24,730 --> 00:11:27,929 S2: I just felt like a fish out of water. Even 205 00:11:27,929 --> 00:11:30,490 S2: at 24 years old, I felt like, man, if I'm 206 00:11:30,490 --> 00:11:32,089 S2: going to be a pastor one day, which is what 207 00:11:32,090 --> 00:11:35,089 S2: I thought back in those days, I said, I've got 208 00:11:35,130 --> 00:11:37,130 S2: to get married. I've got to have a life partner. 209 00:11:37,130 --> 00:11:40,090 S2: I've got to have got to have a ministry partner. 210 00:11:40,090 --> 00:11:43,050 S2: And so I felt the pressure kind of rushed it 211 00:11:43,050 --> 00:11:46,570 S2: and ended up, uh, dating somebody ended up kind of 212 00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:50,050 S2: forcing a relationship, uh, for all the wrong reasons. And 213 00:11:50,050 --> 00:11:52,490 S2: at the time, this is also leads into a soul 214 00:11:52,490 --> 00:11:54,610 S2: chain that I was wrestling with. I was, you know, 215 00:11:54,690 --> 00:11:57,330 S2: dealing with, uh, you know, just my sexual desires as 216 00:11:57,330 --> 00:11:59,370 S2: a single man trying to be celibate, trying to honor 217 00:11:59,410 --> 00:12:01,250 S2: God with my body. And so there was all of 218 00:12:01,290 --> 00:12:05,570 S2: that pressure also factoring into my desire to want to 219 00:12:05,610 --> 00:12:08,370 S2: quickly get married and force something to happen that just 220 00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:14,170 S2: wasn't there. Ended up getting engaged. And thankfully, speaking of accountability, 221 00:12:14,170 --> 00:12:17,050 S2: I had a mentor in my life and I'll never 222 00:12:17,050 --> 00:12:19,610 S2: forget this. He and I met for lunch one day, 223 00:12:19,929 --> 00:12:21,610 S2: and he thought he was going to be meeting with 224 00:12:21,610 --> 00:12:25,570 S2: me to, uh, to help me understand, you know, how 225 00:12:25,570 --> 00:12:27,450 S2: to be a good husband because he knew my wedding 226 00:12:27,450 --> 00:12:32,090 S2: was coming up. And as he began hearing my trepidation, my, my, 227 00:12:32,250 --> 00:12:36,010 S2: my trepidation and fear, the whole conversation shifted. And it 228 00:12:36,010 --> 00:12:38,010 S2: ended up giving me the courage that I needed to 229 00:12:38,050 --> 00:12:41,490 S2: realize that this relationship wasn't what God had for me. 230 00:12:41,690 --> 00:12:44,450 S2: And so I severed the relationship when I was about 231 00:12:44,450 --> 00:12:47,210 S2: 25 years old and once again thought I'd be married 232 00:12:47,530 --> 00:12:50,050 S2: maybe a year or two years later. I mean, just 233 00:12:50,050 --> 00:12:54,050 S2: never imagined that I would be 40 years old getting married. 234 00:12:54,090 --> 00:12:57,090 S2: I actually got married on my 40th birthday. So my 235 00:12:57,130 --> 00:13:00,810 S2: anniversary and my birthday are the same day, 2015. That 236 00:13:00,809 --> 00:13:03,130 S2: was a choice. November 15th. Oh yeah. I would never 237 00:13:03,130 --> 00:13:06,930 S2: forget it. Easiest way to remember. Yeah. So what. 238 00:13:06,929 --> 00:13:08,210 S3: You've just described. 239 00:13:08,210 --> 00:13:11,449 S1: Then is because the word that I thought of as 240 00:13:11,450 --> 00:13:14,490 S1: you're telling the story and the quick engagement, you know, 241 00:13:14,650 --> 00:13:18,810 S1: getting married is fear. You're afraid because. And you're comparing 242 00:13:18,809 --> 00:13:21,730 S1: everybody else is married. That must be how you do it. 243 00:13:22,170 --> 00:13:23,810 S1: And then I was going to ask you, well, how'd 244 00:13:23,809 --> 00:13:25,969 S1: you get over that fear? And it's you had somebody 245 00:13:25,970 --> 00:13:28,330 S1: tell you the truth, speak the truth into your life 246 00:13:28,330 --> 00:13:30,209 S1: and you listened, right? 247 00:13:30,610 --> 00:13:33,410 S2: Yes. And you, Chris, you hit it on. You hit 248 00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:37,610 S2: the nail on the head. Fear. Fear was my biggest, uh, 249 00:13:37,610 --> 00:13:40,290 S2: soul chain that I was wrestling with. And where did 250 00:13:40,290 --> 00:13:42,410 S2: it come from? I talk about this in the book, 251 00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:46,530 S2: How Soul chains are formed through emotional wounds that are 252 00:13:46,530 --> 00:13:49,650 S2: opened up in our lives. And the enemy oftentimes will 253 00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:53,170 S2: capitalize on those emotional wounds. So for me, I grew 254 00:13:53,170 --> 00:13:56,970 S2: up in a home where, um, my parents got divorced 255 00:13:56,970 --> 00:13:59,770 S2: whenever I was six years old, and then my mother 256 00:13:59,770 --> 00:14:02,290 S2: ended up getting divorced a second time. My father ended 257 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:06,689 S2: up getting remarried two more times, getting divorced two more times. 258 00:14:06,690 --> 00:14:11,690 S2: My sister got married twice, divorced twice. And so all 259 00:14:11,690 --> 00:14:14,650 S2: of this I experienced by the time I was 24, 260 00:14:14,650 --> 00:14:17,250 S2: 25 years old. I mean, how many divorces is that? 261 00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:19,890 S2: Two from my three from my father, two from my mother, 262 00:14:19,890 --> 00:14:24,330 S2: two from my sister. So in my mind, marriage was 263 00:14:24,330 --> 00:14:29,450 S2: something that wasn't a positive thing. It wasn't something that 264 00:14:29,450 --> 00:14:32,050 S2: you could enjoy. It was something that ended up either 265 00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:35,850 S2: in divorce or misery. And so I entered every single 266 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:39,690 S2: relationship in fear that this is going to end up 267 00:14:39,690 --> 00:14:42,540 S2: the same way. All of my family members were. And 268 00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:47,060 S2: so that fear kept me single, kept me in bondage. Um, 269 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,060 S2: I also was struggling with a lot of lust at 270 00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:53,220 S2: that time. Struggling with fear, struggling with anger towards God, 271 00:14:53,220 --> 00:14:56,180 S2: jealousy towards all of my other friends who were getting 272 00:14:56,180 --> 00:15:00,380 S2: married at the time, having kids, buying houses, having nice jobs. 273 00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:03,620 S2: I was frustrated, frustrated with God because ministry wasn't going 274 00:15:03,660 --> 00:15:07,020 S2: the way I expected. Graduated from seminary in 2004. Thought 275 00:15:07,020 --> 00:15:09,420 S2: I would get a full time church job, didn't work out, 276 00:15:09,460 --> 00:15:12,260 S2: ended up having to teach high school math for 11 years. 277 00:15:12,260 --> 00:15:15,740 S2: So I just was dealing with all of these emotional 278 00:15:15,740 --> 00:15:22,180 S2: things that I was wrestling with fear, lust, uh, anger, comparison, jealousy. 279 00:15:22,460 --> 00:15:24,340 S2: And it was just wrapping me up. 280 00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:28,380 S1: Mhm. There it is. Wrapping you up and, and, but 281 00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:32,100 S1: you didn't let that fear hold you back from saying 282 00:15:32,140 --> 00:15:35,820 S1: to your fiance, I can't go through with this. And 283 00:15:35,820 --> 00:15:38,660 S1: that is when you when you read in the Old 284 00:15:38,660 --> 00:15:40,860 S1: and New Testament about the fear of God, the fear 285 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:45,340 S1: of the Lord. It's almost like God. Would you order 286 00:15:45,340 --> 00:15:48,700 S1: my fears? I don't think fear is a bad thing. 287 00:15:48,740 --> 00:15:51,140 S1: In other words, it's fear can be a good thing, 288 00:15:51,140 --> 00:15:55,380 S1: especially if it's awe of God. But fear has to be. 289 00:15:55,380 --> 00:15:58,900 S1: You have to order them. So you ordered your fear. 290 00:15:59,020 --> 00:16:02,340 S1: You weren't so afraid that of what everybody was going 291 00:16:02,380 --> 00:16:05,020 S1: to think about that was invited to the wedding and 292 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:07,460 S1: all the people that were going to, you know, fly 293 00:16:07,460 --> 00:16:12,060 S1: in and whatever. That was not the main fear. The 294 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:15,860 S1: fear was I, I want to commit myself to the 295 00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:18,500 S1: person that you want for me. Right. 296 00:16:18,980 --> 00:16:22,740 S2: Exactly. And you're right. That was another fear. It was, uh, 297 00:16:22,740 --> 00:16:25,020 S2: you know, how is this going to be perceived? She 298 00:16:25,020 --> 00:16:27,300 S2: and I were, you know, high profile couple at the 299 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:29,660 S2: church at the time. And everybody in the church knew 300 00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:32,180 S2: we were engaged. We were kind of the the big thing. 301 00:16:32,180 --> 00:16:34,100 S2: And people were, you know, she bought a dress. We 302 00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:37,620 S2: got an engagement. Uh, we got, we put money down 303 00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:40,820 S2: on a reception hall, we started looking at honeymoon places. 304 00:16:40,860 --> 00:16:42,900 S2: I mean, she got I got her the ring. It 305 00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:45,780 S2: was all it was all set. But as you mentioned, 306 00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:48,700 S2: I had to think about, okay, am I going to 307 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:53,580 S2: fear people's response or am I going to fear God 308 00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:57,420 S2: when I know I am doing something that in my spirit, 309 00:16:57,420 --> 00:17:00,500 S2: in my heart of hearts, he wasn't giving me peace 310 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:03,460 S2: to move forward. We were not equally yoked. It wasn't 311 00:17:03,460 --> 00:17:05,780 S2: the best situation. So as you mentioned, I had to 312 00:17:05,820 --> 00:17:09,340 S2: order my fears and thankfully, here I am now. How 313 00:17:09,340 --> 00:17:14,180 S2: many years, 22 years later, happily married, ten years with 314 00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:18,660 S2: my wife, two kids, thriving ministry and couldn't be happier with, uh, 315 00:17:18,660 --> 00:17:19,460 S2: with the wait. 316 00:17:19,780 --> 00:17:23,020 S1: Can I ask you a question? Because this is a note. 317 00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:24,380 S1: I don't know if you answered this in the book, 318 00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:27,300 S1: but how's she doing? How's that, you know, person that 319 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:31,220 S1: you and maybe you don't even know that you were 320 00:17:31,220 --> 00:17:32,660 S1: going to get married to. 321 00:17:32,940 --> 00:17:37,300 S2: You know, um, she's she's doing well, but I will 322 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:41,100 S2: say that it's one of those situations where when I, 323 00:17:41,460 --> 00:17:45,300 S2: when I, you know, look at her, um, you know, 324 00:17:45,340 --> 00:17:49,859 S2: I'm thankful. Uh, wonderful woman, beautiful woman, don't want to 325 00:17:49,859 --> 00:17:52,420 S2: speak negatively about her at all, but it has become 326 00:17:52,420 --> 00:17:55,699 S2: clear over the years that I made the right decision 327 00:17:55,900 --> 00:17:59,980 S2: in terms of us being yoked together and whatnot. So, um, yeah, 328 00:18:00,140 --> 00:18:01,060 S2: thank you for asking. 329 00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:02,820 S1: You didn't. Well, you didn't know you were going to 330 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:03,420 S1: get this deep. 331 00:18:03,420 --> 00:18:05,860 S2: Did you know, I love these conversations. 332 00:18:05,859 --> 00:18:07,939 S1: I'm fine with through you into the deep end of 333 00:18:07,940 --> 00:18:11,219 S1: the pool right there because but that's real life. That's 334 00:18:11,220 --> 00:18:16,140 S1: where the intersection of faith and hope and obedience comes 335 00:18:16,140 --> 00:18:19,620 S1: into this. And so you got all this stuff that's 336 00:18:19,619 --> 00:18:22,780 S1: going on, the divorce and the fear and, you know, 337 00:18:22,820 --> 00:18:26,820 S1: trying to figure it all out. And you could not 338 00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:29,780 S1: do that on your own. You, you went to a counselor. 339 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:31,580 S1: It says right in the first page, you know, I 340 00:18:31,619 --> 00:18:35,660 S1: went to, to, uh, to, to counseling, professional counseling to 341 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,380 S1: figure out what's going on inside. What did that do 342 00:18:38,380 --> 00:18:38,980 S1: for you? 343 00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:42,179 S2: Well, you know, when you're young and you're dating and 344 00:18:42,180 --> 00:18:43,980 S2: you're trying to figure this out, I'm going in from 345 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:47,540 S2: relationship to relationship to relationship. I mean, I'm just trying 346 00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:50,780 S2: to figure this out. You know, I did not even 347 00:18:50,780 --> 00:18:55,060 S2: understand myself. The depth of the soul chain, the depth 348 00:18:55,060 --> 00:18:56,939 S2: of the fear, where it all came from, why I 349 00:18:56,980 --> 00:18:59,660 S2: kept having so many failed relationships, why I couldn't commit 350 00:18:59,660 --> 00:19:01,780 S2: to a woman, why I was so afraid. I didn't 351 00:19:01,780 --> 00:19:05,379 S2: understand any of those things. But it took some professional counseling. 352 00:19:05,380 --> 00:19:08,900 S2: Once again, tapping into that, that, uh, that weapon that 353 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:12,180 S2: God has given us, the community and sometimes the community 354 00:19:12,180 --> 00:19:17,020 S2: looks like just a friend or a pastor, a mentor. 355 00:19:17,060 --> 00:19:20,219 S2: And other times God may want to use some professional 356 00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:23,580 S2: Christian counseling to help you break through and tap into 357 00:19:23,619 --> 00:19:26,300 S2: some of those things. And through counseling, it was revealed 358 00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:30,220 S2: to me, hey, what's at the root behind all of 359 00:19:30,220 --> 00:19:34,180 S2: these things is an unresolved issue from your childhood that 360 00:19:34,180 --> 00:19:36,940 S2: you never went back, you never resolved it, you never 361 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:41,220 S2: addressed it. And that's what's keeping you bound. And, uh, 362 00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:43,619 S2: you know, in so many of these relationships over and 363 00:19:43,619 --> 00:19:44,220 S2: over again. 364 00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:48,460 S1: And I think a lot of people want to arrive 365 00:19:48,460 --> 00:19:50,820 S1: when you go back to the three parts that you've 366 00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:54,459 S1: written about understanding the problem, walking through the process, embracing 367 00:19:54,460 --> 00:19:58,260 S1: the promise we want to arrive, we can see the problem. 368 00:19:58,300 --> 00:20:00,540 S1: You know, this is what I'm struggling with. God, would 369 00:20:00,540 --> 00:20:04,619 S1: you do this? And when he doesn't, immediately we think, well, 370 00:20:04,619 --> 00:20:07,940 S1: it's not true. And you promised me this. And it's like, no, 371 00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:12,100 S1: I didn't promise you this. I promise that that in 372 00:20:12,140 --> 00:20:15,620 S1: the process, I'm going to make you like my son. 373 00:20:15,619 --> 00:20:18,420 S1: I'm going to conform you to the image of my son. 374 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:22,180 S1: And that takes time. And I don't like the the time. 375 00:20:22,740 --> 00:20:24,500 S1: I'll be honest with you, I don't like the time 376 00:20:24,500 --> 00:20:27,700 S1: that it takes. But unless you go through the process, 377 00:20:28,140 --> 00:20:31,060 S1: that's where the secret sauce is, right? 378 00:20:31,420 --> 00:20:34,699 S2: Yeah. And absolutely. And, you know, this is one of 379 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:38,780 S2: the things that I talk about in the book is that, um, unfortunately, 380 00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:41,900 S2: you know, there's a subculture within our Christian community and 381 00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,220 S2: it's this idea that deliverance is something that's supposed to 382 00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:49,660 S2: happen one time without us partnering with the Lord in 383 00:20:49,660 --> 00:20:52,660 S2: the process. We're supposed to go to a conference, someone 384 00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:55,380 S2: lays hands on us, speaks a prophetic word over our life, hey, 385 00:20:55,420 --> 00:20:58,500 S2: you're free from this. You're free from that. I speak 386 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:01,100 S2: freedom over you and all that sounds great, but the 387 00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,100 S2: reality is, for the majority of us, it doesn't work 388 00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,940 S2: that way. And so the way God has designed it 389 00:21:06,940 --> 00:21:10,580 S2: is that he wants us to partner with him to 390 00:21:10,619 --> 00:21:13,500 S2: experience this freedom. And he's given us the tools. He's 391 00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:16,060 S2: given us the Holy Spirit. He's given us prayer. He's 392 00:21:16,060 --> 00:21:19,060 S2: given us fasting. He's given us community. He's given us, 393 00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:21,020 S2: you know, the Word of God. He's given us all 394 00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:24,540 S2: these different tools. But if we don't do our part, um, 395 00:21:24,580 --> 00:21:27,420 S2: you know, oftentimes we're just expecting God to do everything 396 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:31,940 S2: and magically, um, you know, miraculously just heal us. And 397 00:21:31,980 --> 00:21:34,740 S2: oftentimes that just just doesn't work that way. 398 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:38,060 S1: Yeah. Alan parse with us today. I'm going to open 399 00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:40,980 S1: the phone lines to today. If, if this is where 400 00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:44,460 S1: you are living, if you have a soul chain and 401 00:21:44,460 --> 00:21:48,500 S1: you've tried to break it and the immediate, you know, 402 00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:52,980 S1: alcoholism or pornography or gambling or whatever it is, that 403 00:21:52,980 --> 00:21:56,100 S1: can be an addictive behavior. But and so if that's 404 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,180 S1: what you're going through, I'd love to hear from you. 405 00:21:58,180 --> 00:22:01,700 S1: And maybe you've found this kind of deliverance that he's 406 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,580 S1: talking about or the breaking of the chains, but it 407 00:22:04,580 --> 00:22:08,420 S1: doesn't have to be as overt as that. It can 408 00:22:08,420 --> 00:22:12,460 S1: be you. You notice that you live a, you live 409 00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:15,420 S1: under guilt and shame all the time. Or like I've 410 00:22:15,460 --> 00:22:19,260 S1: talked about, the catastrophizing that I do, I can see 411 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,020 S1: the worst thing that's going to happen and it will 412 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:26,379 S1: keep its fear really will keep me from engaging in 413 00:22:26,380 --> 00:22:31,859 S1: life because I. I see the worst and when I 414 00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:35,260 S1: when I catastrophize and I'm right, I feel good about 415 00:22:35,260 --> 00:22:37,660 S1: myself because I thought, well, see, I told you that 416 00:22:37,660 --> 00:22:40,139 S1: was going to happen. But most of 99% of the 417 00:22:40,140 --> 00:22:43,659 S1: time it never happens. Right there, God wants to set 418 00:22:43,660 --> 00:22:46,899 S1: you free. And what is that thing that is holding 419 00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:57,379 S1: you back? What has you wrapped up? (877) 548-3675. Or number (877) 548-3675. 420 00:22:57,380 --> 00:23:00,300 S1: I want you to talk with Alan Parr. Breaking through 421 00:23:00,340 --> 00:23:04,899 S1: is our featured resource in step two. I've underlined this 422 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:06,460 S1: and I want to go through some of these things 423 00:23:06,460 --> 00:23:11,340 S1: that I've underlined. Um, after experiencing significant pain, our minds 424 00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:17,260 S1: immediately seek to interpret what happened and assign meaning to it. 425 00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:20,300 S1: At this stage, we are vulnerable and the enemy loves 426 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:24,420 S1: to seize the opportunity to plant lies and deception. And 427 00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:29,340 S1: you say, if truth sets people free, lies keep them bound. 428 00:23:29,380 --> 00:23:30,300 S1: Talk about that. 429 00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:34,820 S2: Yes. So this is huge. And I spent a lot 430 00:23:34,859 --> 00:23:36,780 S2: of time in the book when I talk about this 431 00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:41,540 S2: concept of, um, how soul chains are formed and every 432 00:23:41,540 --> 00:23:44,460 S2: single soul chain, whether you want to call it bondage, 433 00:23:44,540 --> 00:23:47,580 S2: soul chain, stronghold, you can call it whatever you want. 434 00:23:47,619 --> 00:23:50,580 S2: Every single one of them is built on some sort 435 00:23:50,580 --> 00:23:53,980 S2: of lie. Um, you know, for me, the lie was 436 00:23:53,980 --> 00:23:56,660 S2: I'll never be happy. Or if I get married, then 437 00:23:56,660 --> 00:23:59,940 S2: I will end up either miserable or divorced. The lie 438 00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:02,780 S2: for me is, as a single guy, I will never 439 00:24:02,780 --> 00:24:06,460 S2: be able to get my sexual needs met. Um, in 440 00:24:06,460 --> 00:24:09,660 S2: a way that will satisfy me. Uh, for other people 441 00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:13,820 S2: that lie might be, um. I am dealing with so 442 00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:16,820 S2: much shame that there's no way I'll ever be fully 443 00:24:16,820 --> 00:24:19,979 S2: known and fully loved. So I can never really open 444 00:24:19,980 --> 00:24:22,460 S2: up to people and tell them the things that I've 445 00:24:22,500 --> 00:24:24,460 S2: gone through or the things that I've done or the 446 00:24:24,460 --> 00:24:27,750 S2: mistakes that I've made. Because if I do, then there's 447 00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:30,750 S2: no way someone could know me fully and love me fully. 448 00:24:30,990 --> 00:24:34,669 S2: For others, it could be a lie of legalism. The 449 00:24:34,670 --> 00:24:37,990 S2: idea that, hey, I have to continue to do, do, do. 450 00:24:37,990 --> 00:24:40,350 S2: And if I don't, I'm going to, uh, you know, 451 00:24:40,390 --> 00:24:43,830 S2: lose my salvation or if I'm going to, uh, you know, 452 00:24:43,869 --> 00:24:45,750 S2: fall out of God's grace or I have to earn 453 00:24:45,750 --> 00:24:48,350 S2: his favor. There's so many different lies and we don't 454 00:24:48,350 --> 00:24:51,350 S2: realize that these lies are so embedded. That's the reason 455 00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:56,790 S2: why I define a soul chain as a deeply entrenched mindset, habit, 456 00:24:56,790 --> 00:25:00,750 S2: or spiritual barrier that opposes God's truth. There's a lie 457 00:25:00,990 --> 00:25:04,630 S2: and keeps a person in bondage. There's the result shaping 458 00:25:04,630 --> 00:25:08,950 S2: their thoughts, behaviors, and identity in a way that hinders 459 00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:13,990 S2: true freedom in Christ. And so, um, they're all built 460 00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:16,230 S2: on some sort of lie. And what I want people 461 00:25:16,230 --> 00:25:18,909 S2: to do who are listening to this and reading the 462 00:25:18,910 --> 00:25:21,670 S2: book is just start to think about what are the 463 00:25:21,670 --> 00:25:25,230 S2: lies that I have believed. And then we can start 464 00:25:25,230 --> 00:25:28,750 S2: moving to the next steps of, uh, and trying to 465 00:25:28,790 --> 00:25:29,870 S2: get to the bottom of it. 466 00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:34,070 S1: And get into the process so that you can see 467 00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:37,230 S1: the promise that God has for you. Okay, so we've 468 00:25:37,790 --> 00:25:42,190 S1: outlined what Alan is talking about in Breaking Through. Featured resource. 469 00:25:42,190 --> 00:25:49,590 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. I want to hear from you (877) 548-3675. 470 00:25:49,710 --> 00:26:04,909 S1: More straight ahead on Moody Radio. Is real hope here 471 00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:07,750 S1: in Alan Parker's book and in his story. But there's 472 00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:10,830 S1: also real pain. And there's probably a fair amount in 473 00:26:10,830 --> 00:26:13,470 S1: your own life as you're listening here today. I want 474 00:26:13,470 --> 00:26:15,350 S1: to give you access to talk with Alan if you 475 00:26:15,350 --> 00:26:18,750 S1: need a breakthrough. Maybe today's the day. Breaking through is 476 00:26:18,750 --> 00:26:24,350 S1: the title of his resource, How Ordinary Believers Experience Extraordinary Freedom. 477 00:26:24,750 --> 00:26:28,990 S1: You'll see that. Chris fabriclive.org. I was telling Alan in 478 00:26:28,990 --> 00:26:32,590 S1: the break that I there's one section in here where 479 00:26:32,590 --> 00:26:37,310 S1: he starts talking about Cameron, who had these wounds in 480 00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:42,830 S1: his life and the lie and the victim mentality that 481 00:26:42,830 --> 00:26:46,830 S1: he kind of embraced because of it. And I said 482 00:26:47,190 --> 00:26:49,470 S1: in the wound, I wrote down a name for my 483 00:26:49,470 --> 00:26:52,830 S1: child from fifth grade. I still remember this as soon 484 00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:55,149 S1: as I read this story, it's like, this is coming 485 00:26:55,150 --> 00:26:58,190 S1: back to you. There's the wound, there's the pain. And 486 00:26:58,190 --> 00:27:02,150 S1: you can either let that continue throughout your life and 487 00:27:02,150 --> 00:27:06,070 S1: cause you shame or guilt, or make you a control freak. 488 00:27:06,510 --> 00:27:09,470 S1: Or you can say, okay, God, what's going on here? 489 00:27:09,470 --> 00:27:11,710 S1: I want to move forward. I want to be in 490 00:27:11,710 --> 00:27:15,550 S1: this process where I can get your promise rather than 491 00:27:15,550 --> 00:27:18,510 S1: to stay in the wound. So that's, that's our goal 492 00:27:18,510 --> 00:27:21,510 S1: here today. And I'm just giving you just a taste 493 00:27:21,510 --> 00:27:25,109 S1: of what he's written about, John is on the line. John, 494 00:27:25,150 --> 00:27:26,830 S1: you're on with Alan. Go right ahead. 495 00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:29,790 S4: Well, Chris, thank you so much for having me on 496 00:27:29,790 --> 00:27:32,110 S4: the show. And thank you, Alan, I appreciate it. Uh, 497 00:27:32,109 --> 00:27:36,110 S4: my question is, so I am struggling big time. I've 498 00:27:36,270 --> 00:27:39,150 S4: been married for over ten years, been with my wife for, uh, 499 00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:42,630 S4: over 20. And, uh, she keeps saying the same thing, 500 00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:46,030 S4: if not something different that I'm a narcissist or, uh, 501 00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:49,790 S4: that I'm having a victim mentality. And I've gotten some 502 00:27:49,790 --> 00:27:54,270 S4: counseling and I thought that I was resolving the issue. 503 00:27:54,350 --> 00:27:57,629 S4: It at one point it got okay. And, you know, 504 00:27:57,670 --> 00:28:00,149 S4: for a month here, a month there, but it's the 505 00:28:00,150 --> 00:28:02,950 S4: same thing over and over again until something came up. 506 00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:07,149 S4: And I've heard about childhood issues, childhood trauma or trauma. Uh, 507 00:28:07,150 --> 00:28:09,430 S4: and I don't know what that could be. And I'm 508 00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:13,149 S4: trying to figure it out because my marriage is actually 509 00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:16,430 S4: at that point where it's, you know, it's over. It's 510 00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:18,989 S4: just we just don't have any papers. Uh, and I 511 00:28:18,990 --> 00:28:20,430 S4: want to, and I want to save my marriage. I 512 00:28:20,430 --> 00:28:23,870 S4: have five five children. And I love my wife. I do, uh, 513 00:28:23,869 --> 00:28:26,469 S4: but I just, I feel hurt and I feel hurt 514 00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:28,510 S4: by the things she say to me, but I can't 515 00:28:28,510 --> 00:28:30,910 S4: continue to move forward because I feel like I have 516 00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:32,710 S4: a thorn in my back. Can you help me out 517 00:28:32,710 --> 00:28:33,149 S4: with that? 518 00:28:34,150 --> 00:28:37,510 S2: Mhm. Man. Well, uh, let me just say, uh, is 519 00:28:37,510 --> 00:28:38,830 S2: your name John? Is it? 520 00:28:39,110 --> 00:28:39,590 S4: Yes. 521 00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:42,710 S2: John. John. John, first of all, thank you for having 522 00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:45,790 S2: the bravery and the courage to come and share that. Uh, 523 00:28:45,790 --> 00:28:47,910 S2: let me just say that my my heart breaks for 524 00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:51,310 S2: you and your wife and your wonderful, beautiful kids. Um, 525 00:28:51,950 --> 00:28:54,870 S2: you know, obviously, you know, being married around the same 526 00:28:54,870 --> 00:28:57,510 S2: time as me ten years or so. Uh, and so 527 00:28:57,510 --> 00:29:00,350 S2: let me just say, uh, thank you for, for your, your, 528 00:29:00,350 --> 00:29:05,750 S2: your courage. Um, I would say, um, you know, have 529 00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:10,070 S2: you all actually gotten counseling together? That's the first question 530 00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:12,830 S2: I would ask. And then second of all, um, it's, it's, 531 00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:17,110 S2: it's a, it's a, it's tough whenever someone maybe just 532 00:29:17,110 --> 00:29:20,550 S2: mentions things like, well, you're a narcissist or you're self-centered 533 00:29:20,550 --> 00:29:24,910 S2: or whatever, but has your wife or other people in 534 00:29:24,910 --> 00:29:29,830 S2: your life given you specific concrete examples of how the 535 00:29:29,990 --> 00:29:34,550 S2: this issue that maybe she has, um, you know, with you, um, 536 00:29:34,790 --> 00:29:38,070 S2: has been surfacing and creating damage in the relationship. And 537 00:29:38,070 --> 00:29:40,350 S2: then the last question I would ask is, you know, 538 00:29:40,390 --> 00:29:45,430 S2: has she taken a look at her own maybe contribution 539 00:29:45,590 --> 00:29:48,390 S2: to the breakdown of your marriage? Because oftentimes it's not 540 00:29:48,390 --> 00:29:53,110 S2: just one sided. There's oftentimes there's some, uh, you know, 541 00:29:53,150 --> 00:29:55,910 S2: it's two sided, uh, as well. So I know there 542 00:29:55,910 --> 00:29:58,070 S2: was a lot, but just trying to kind of get 543 00:29:58,070 --> 00:30:01,190 S2: to the, get some more clarity around the issue. 544 00:30:02,030 --> 00:30:05,310 S4: So to answer the first question, we have not had 545 00:30:05,310 --> 00:30:11,270 S4: counseling together, uh, since probably maybe about ten years ago. Uh, 546 00:30:11,270 --> 00:30:14,830 S4: and it may have only been at least two sessions. Uh, 547 00:30:14,870 --> 00:30:17,990 S4: the second question, uh, I don't really remember that one, 548 00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:22,150 S4: but the third one, the third question is, uh, I 549 00:30:22,270 --> 00:30:27,550 S4: think the answer to that was I think it's, uh. 550 00:30:27,870 --> 00:30:29,870 S2: That's okay. The second one was, have you had, has 551 00:30:29,870 --> 00:30:34,630 S2: she provided specific concrete examples of, you know, the narcissism 552 00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:37,390 S2: or the issues or she's just saying, ah, you're a 553 00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:40,550 S2: narcissist or you're self-centered because that doesn't really help anybody. 554 00:30:40,830 --> 00:30:44,670 S2: It helps when people provide concrete, specific examples when you 555 00:30:44,670 --> 00:30:47,150 S2: do this. It makes me feel this way. That's one 556 00:30:47,150 --> 00:30:49,190 S2: of the things my wife and I learned in counseling. 557 00:30:49,350 --> 00:30:51,270 S2: When you do this or when you say this, it 558 00:30:51,270 --> 00:30:53,630 S2: makes me feel like this. 559 00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:58,030 S4: To some point, to some degree, yes, she has described that. 560 00:30:58,030 --> 00:31:00,910 S4: That's based on a lot of the, uh, social media 561 00:31:00,910 --> 00:31:03,830 S4: examples and whatever she can find on the internet. Uh, 562 00:31:03,830 --> 00:31:06,270 S4: so she based it off that, uh, and then she 563 00:31:06,270 --> 00:31:10,150 S4: does explain, but the thing is, when she explains something, 564 00:31:10,150 --> 00:31:13,030 S4: she not, she doesn't explain it with love. She explains 565 00:31:13,030 --> 00:31:15,709 S4: it with a little harshness, you know? And so I 566 00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:18,350 S4: take it, I try to take it, but at the 567 00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:21,510 S4: same time it is uh, it is self. It is 568 00:31:21,510 --> 00:31:25,350 S4: like a adding on to the wound. Uh, okay. 569 00:31:25,390 --> 00:31:26,870 S1: I got a question for you. John. Let me let 570 00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:29,950 S1: me jump in here. What is it? Is there something 571 00:31:29,950 --> 00:31:32,990 S1: that happened in your childhood? Is there something that you 572 00:31:33,030 --> 00:31:35,190 S1: keep going back to? And you think, I wonder if 573 00:31:35,190 --> 00:31:36,510 S1: that had anything to do with it? 574 00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:43,070 S4: Oh, not that I can remember. Besides the fact that 575 00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:45,270 S4: my dad used to. My dad used to be in 576 00:31:45,270 --> 00:31:47,510 S4: and out, you know? Yeah. Not not that not that 577 00:31:47,510 --> 00:31:48,910 S4: it was a bad thing. But he used to be 578 00:31:48,910 --> 00:31:51,630 S4: back and forth from country to country, coming, coming home. 579 00:31:51,630 --> 00:31:52,470 S4: But that was about it. 580 00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:55,230 S1: That was my other questions. What kind of relationship do 581 00:31:55,230 --> 00:31:59,430 S1: you have with your dad? Okay. So, Alan, with with 582 00:31:59,430 --> 00:32:03,230 S1: all of that, with all of that counseling, you know, 583 00:32:03,270 --> 00:32:07,310 S1: being open to talking about this, um, what's the next 584 00:32:07,310 --> 00:32:09,110 S1: step for John? Do you think? 585 00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:11,750 S2: Well, I think the next step is you all have 586 00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:17,310 S2: to have some really, really long term Group counseling as 587 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:19,030 S2: a couple. And the reason why I say this is, 588 00:32:19,070 --> 00:32:20,830 S2: you know, you said your marriage is pretty much over. 589 00:32:20,830 --> 00:32:23,270 S2: You don't have the papers. What you don't want to 590 00:32:23,270 --> 00:32:25,990 S2: happen is five years from now, ten years from now, 591 00:32:26,030 --> 00:32:28,070 S2: take it from me, I am. You heard my story. 592 00:32:28,070 --> 00:32:30,750 S2: I'm a child of divorce, and you can see how 593 00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:34,630 S2: my parents divorce affected my life. And so I'm not 594 00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:36,230 S2: trying to put any guilt on you, but you don't 595 00:32:36,230 --> 00:32:40,350 S2: want that to impact your children's lives. So before you 596 00:32:40,350 --> 00:32:44,190 S2: all make the permanent decision to sever your marriage, you 597 00:32:44,190 --> 00:32:46,150 S2: want to be able to at least say, we did 598 00:32:46,150 --> 00:32:50,510 S2: everything we possibly could to save our marriage, and it 599 00:32:50,510 --> 00:32:55,630 S2: just didn't work out. And two sessions isn't enough to say, okay, well, 600 00:32:55,630 --> 00:32:57,830 S2: we're going to get a divorce. I'm talking about you 601 00:32:57,830 --> 00:33:00,710 S2: all need to go into maybe, you know, the next 602 00:33:00,710 --> 00:33:04,230 S2: 6 to 12 months of intense counseling so that you 603 00:33:04,230 --> 00:33:07,190 S2: can at least say, we gave it the best shot 604 00:33:07,550 --> 00:33:11,310 S2: before you, you know, decide to check out. That would 605 00:33:11,310 --> 00:33:12,870 S2: be I mean, there's lots of other things I could say, 606 00:33:12,910 --> 00:33:15,240 S2: but for sake of time, that would be the first thing. 607 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,120 S2: And then the last thing I'd say would be, do 608 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,360 S2: you have some mail accountability in your life? Do you 609 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,320 S2: have a mentor? Do you have, you know, another brother 610 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,080 S2: in Christ that you can talk to about these things 611 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,720 S2: that can help you, maybe a pastor or a spiritual leader. 612 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,560 S4: Working on that? Good, but is there an acceptable accepting 613 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,040 S4: to any counselors that you can send my way so 614 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,200 S4: that me and my wife can try to, because it's 615 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,080 S4: really hard to find a good marriage Christian marriage counselor. 616 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,080 S1: Yeah. Is are you and your wife still together in 617 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,760 S1: the house or have you moved out? 618 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,160 S4: Yes we are. 619 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,520 S1: You are together. You're in separate places. Okay. All right. 620 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,880 S1: So that and so what was Father's Day like yesterday? 621 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,080 S4: It was really it was it was really hurtful. 622 00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:09,400 S1: Yeah. I can hear that. I can hear that. Okay, John. 623 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,800 S1: Hang on. I want to have Tricia get your information. 624 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:14,959 S1: I want to at least send you a copy of 625 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,920 S1: Breaking Through. I think it's going to be helpful, but 626 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,680 S1: maybe the most helpful thing we could do. Alan, would 627 00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:23,840 S1: you pray for John and his wife and their their kids? 628 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,439 S2: Absolutely. Heavenly father, we pray for John, his wife, and 629 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,080 S2: their wonderful, beautiful, precious family. Lord, we just don't know 630 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,120 S2: all the ins and outs of everything that's been going 631 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,279 S2: on in their life in the last ten years, 20 years, Lord. 632 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,759 S2: But Lord, we we know that divorce is not your 633 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,520 S2: your desire, Lord. And so, Lord, I just pray that 634 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,600 S2: you would send a good, godly Christian counselor their way. 635 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,640 S2: I pray that you'd send godly mentors to both him 636 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:53,880 S2: and his wife and to protect the children, Lord, from, uh, 637 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,399 S2: the issues that their parents are dealing with. And God, 638 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,280 S2: I pray that true breakthrough would happen and that ultimately, Lord, 639 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,520 S2: just as you're able to heal people physically, uh, that 640 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,839 S2: you're able to heal this relationship, Lord, so that on 641 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,160 S2: the other side, they'll have a testimony of how God 642 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,480 S2: healed their marriage and they can help other people experience 643 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,040 S2: freedom from difficulties in marriage as well. We love you Lord. 644 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,000 S2: Commit it to you. In Jesus name, Amen. 645 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,879 S1: Amen. John, I'm really glad you called today. And I 646 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,319 S1: agree with Alan about the courage that it took, but 647 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,879 S1: there's a certain sense of desperation that I can hear 648 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,879 S1: in your voice and you're separated. And with Father's Day 649 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,480 S1: being a really, really tough day for you yesterday. I'm 650 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,480 S1: glad you, you you've got some folks who are listening 651 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:42,040 S1: to you, and I hope you have some more. And 652 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,759 S1: I hope your wife will be able to engage as 653 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,080 S1: well and listen together for some of the hope that 654 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:53,440 S1: we have for you. Breaking through how ordinary believers experience 655 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:59,040 S1: extraordinary freedom. You're hearing it in John's voice. How about you? 656 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,879 S1: What are the soul chains that have you bound up? 657 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:07,280 S1: We're talking with Alan Parr, PARR. He is the creator 658 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,640 S1: of the YouTube channel The Beat, and will continue straight 659 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,279 S1: ahead on Moody Radio. 660 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,240 S5: Hey, Laura. 661 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,680 S1: Stories coming back. She's going to be with us tomorrow 662 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:27,520 S1: here at the Back Fence The Musical. She writes a 663 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,040 S1: lot of songs and she's talking about the power of 664 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:34,440 S1: awe and worship. Alan Parr is with us today, creator 665 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,680 S1: of the YouTube channel. The Beat Breaking Through is our 666 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,520 S1: featured resource. That was the other thing I noticed in 667 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,400 S1: all the things that you've done, music is a part 668 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,080 S1: of your. You've been a worship pastor before. You probably 669 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,239 S1: have some ideas about what all does to our our 670 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,120 S1: worship of God. What do you think? 671 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,160 S2: Yeah. Yes. I spent a large portion of my life 672 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,080 S2: leading worship. That's kind of part of my testimony. Um, I, um, 673 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,640 S2: came out of seminary once again thinking I was going 674 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,720 S2: to be in ministry, uh, teaching ministry, if you will, 675 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,240 S2: adult teaching ministry. And, uh, things didn't work out quite 676 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:11,360 S2: that way. You know, life is not linear. It's sometimes 677 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,240 S2: God takes us in the path that we don't expect. 678 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,759 S2: And so the only ministry opportunities I was able to 679 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,960 S2: get for years was teaching or, excuse me, leading worship. 680 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,680 S2: And so I leaned into that, accepted that. But all 681 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,160 S2: the while knowing that God had called me not just 682 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,160 S2: to that, but to adult teaching ministry. And so I 683 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,720 S2: did that for 11 years. So a lot of experience 684 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:30,640 S2: with leading worship. 685 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,520 S1: Uh, hymns. One of my big pet peeves is we 686 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,400 S1: don't sing the hymns anymore and there's nothing wrong. You know, 687 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,000 S1: Psalms talk about sing a new song to the Lord. But, um, 688 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:47,440 S1: we're losing the past. We're losing what our parents, grandparents, 689 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:53,920 S1: generations before us sang as truth of kind of jettisoning that. 690 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,120 S1: And I, but I at the same time, I don't 691 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,400 S1: want to push away the new songs. What do you think? 692 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,400 S2: Yeah, I grew up in the Baptist church, so I 693 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,359 S2: absolutely love all the hymns. I mean, everything from How 694 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,759 S2: Great Thou Art, Great is Thy faithfulness. It is well 695 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,200 S2: with my soul. Abide with me. Uh, you know all 696 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,160 S2: of those songs. Uh. Be still, my soul. I mean, 697 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,000 S2: you know, I, I remember growing up, uh, fond memories 698 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,920 S2: of singing all those hymns, even even as a child. 699 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,000 S2: And so, yeah, there's some rich theology and, uh, just 700 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,840 S2: wonderful lyrics in those hymns. And I think that, um, 701 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,560 S2: the church needs to find a way to, you know, 702 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,280 S2: sing those songs, even if they have to contemporize them and, 703 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,040 S2: you know, but, uh, I think, but. 704 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,320 S1: You know, what the thing is, is you're speaking truth. 705 00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,120 S1: You know, when you're singing that you're not just singing it, you're, 706 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,040 S1: you're telling yourself the truth and you're telling everybody else 707 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:47,560 S1: the truth, which is really what you're talking about here. 708 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,080 S1: This process that God, we have to believe what the 709 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,080 S1: truth is about ourselves, about our identity. And that's the 710 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:58,200 S1: the secret sauce in the book Breaking Through by Alan Parr. 711 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:01,320 S1: Jamie is in Alabama. Jamie, why did you call today? 712 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:08,600 S6: Hi. Um, I just I'm sorry, I get nervous. Um, 713 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,200 S6: but I, when I grew up, I was a victim 714 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,920 S6: of childhood sex trafficking, and I spent the rest of 715 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,439 S6: my life in addiction after that. In 2019, the Lord 716 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,919 S6: delivered me from that. And it was a big aha 717 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:30,560 S6: moment for me. And now I felt so free after 718 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:33,040 S6: I was delivered from that, I was I had such 719 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,359 S6: a fire, and now I'm crippled by anxiety. And I 720 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,799 S6: didn't know if you had any advice. I have a 721 00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,759 S6: good relationship with the Lord. Um, I just I've been 722 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:50,040 S6: to counseling for everything that I've been through. I just 723 00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,320 S6: feel crippled by this all the time. 724 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:55,520 S2: Mhm. 725 00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,239 S1: I'm glad. I'm glad that you are honest about this, 726 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,480 S1: you know, because you could just go on Jamie and say, 727 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,120 S1: and that's behind me. And, you know, God is good, 728 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,840 S1: la la la. You know, to try to drown out 729 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,480 S1: that feeling. But the feeling is real. And so, Alan, 730 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,840 S1: I want you to come alongside Jamie. What do you say? 731 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,360 S2: Absolutely. Jamie, just. If you could just do me a favor, 732 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,320 S2: could you explain a little bit more about your anxiety? Um, 733 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:29,320 S2: you said you're kind of crippled with anxiety related specifically to. 734 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,239 S2: To what? Um, if I could better a little bit 735 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,520 S2: better understand, uh, what you're dealing with. 736 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:40,680 S6: Well, it's a lot of fear people. Um, I, uh, 737 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,799 S6: I go to church all the time and I can 738 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,719 S6: smile and I can get through it. And I just 739 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,800 S6: close relationships are hard. Um, getting in front of people, 740 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,680 S6: being honest. Um, I love music. I love to sing. 741 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,800 S6: I could not stand in front of anybody and do it. Um, 742 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,440 S6: I just have a hard time getting close or just 743 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,320 S6: being honest point one to another. 744 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:08,359 S1: Because you feel like people couldn't wouldn't love you if 745 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,879 S1: they knew your past. You know, the the shame and 746 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,239 S1: all of that. 747 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,680 S6: The funny thing about it is I can be really 748 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:18,799 S6: honest about the things that have happened to me. I 749 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,160 S6: have a hard time being honest about what's going on 750 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:21,920 S6: with me now. 751 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:23,400 S1: Okay. 752 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:23,880 S6: Um. 753 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:25,120 S2: Yeah. 754 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,120 S6: Because that feels so far removed from me. But when 755 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,000 S6: I'm hurting or when I'm, it's like I feel like 756 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,960 S6: I have, I've been through so much. I have to 757 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:38,040 S6: keep this strong persona, this I can't break down. I 758 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,600 S6: can't right now. I'm crying because I'm in my vehicle 759 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:43,560 S6: talking to you and you can't see me. But if 760 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,439 S6: you were to be in front of me, I would 761 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:47,600 S6: be smiling and oh, it's okay. 762 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:48,680 S2: And yes. 763 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,560 S1: I can tell you've done work. See, I can tell. 764 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:56,680 S1: And Alan, you too. There's there's this level of, uh, 765 00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:02,399 S1: self identity of seeing the truth about her, but she 766 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,480 S1: still feels stuck with the anxiety. So what do you say? 767 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,359 S2: Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, um, Jamie, one of the 768 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,360 S2: reasons why I wrote this book was specifically with people like, 769 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,759 S2: for people like you in mind, there are two stories 770 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,839 S2: that I share in this book. One, a story of 771 00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,239 S2: a man named Joshua Broome. I'm not sure if you're 772 00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:27,200 S2: familiar with him. Um, but Joshua Broome spent, um, many, many, 773 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,880 S2: many years in the porn industry and, uh, he actually 774 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,960 S2: ended up winning top male actor, adult actor of the, 775 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,719 S2: of the year. I mean, he won all kinds of 776 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:40,520 S2: awards and, uh, the Lord has set him free. Now 777 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,600 S2: he's married with four children. He's actually a dear friend 778 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,760 S2: of mine. He's, he's, uh, looking to be a pastor 779 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:49,040 S2: of a church. He's gone on to seminary and gotten 780 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:52,719 S2: his degree. Another, um, another one is a woman by 781 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,920 S2: the name of Brittany de la Mora. And, uh, she 782 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,120 S2: also was in the porn industry. And I'm not necessarily 783 00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:02,089 S2: equating what you went through with what, what they went through. 784 00:43:02,090 --> 00:43:04,850 S2: But my point is that she dealt with all kinds 785 00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:09,930 S2: of shame, fear, anxiety, low self-worth, you know, was on drugs, 786 00:43:09,969 --> 00:43:13,370 S2: you know, just trying to try to figure it all out. 787 00:43:13,489 --> 00:43:16,969 S2: And once again, she ended up getting married to a 788 00:43:16,969 --> 00:43:19,609 S2: wonderful man, Richard. They now have a ministry that they 789 00:43:19,610 --> 00:43:22,810 S2: lead together, trying to help other people in the industry 790 00:43:22,850 --> 00:43:24,730 S2: get out. And I say all that to say that, 791 00:43:25,050 --> 00:43:27,770 S2: you know, it's easy for us to look at our lives, 792 00:43:27,770 --> 00:43:29,770 S2: look at the things that we've been through, and just 793 00:43:29,770 --> 00:43:32,290 S2: walk in that anxiety, walk in that fear, that doubt, 794 00:43:32,290 --> 00:43:36,810 S2: that shame, that guilt. Um, and just, you know, break down. But, um, 795 00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:40,209 S2: you know, the, I, you know what, Jamie, I would 796 00:43:40,210 --> 00:43:42,810 S2: love to, and I don't know if she's open to this. 797 00:43:42,810 --> 00:43:44,890 S2: I bet, I bet she would be open to it, 798 00:43:44,890 --> 00:43:47,770 S2: but I would love to put you in touch with 799 00:43:47,770 --> 00:43:50,690 S2: my friend Brittni de la Mora. Um, and I, I 800 00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:54,129 S2: would almost venture to guarantee that if I were to 801 00:43:54,130 --> 00:43:56,930 S2: call her today and say, I've got a woman that, 802 00:43:56,969 --> 00:44:00,810 S2: you know, has had some similar experiences. Um. I bet 803 00:44:00,810 --> 00:44:02,529 S2: she would get on the phone with you, a Zoom 804 00:44:02,530 --> 00:44:04,770 S2: call with you and maybe talk through how she was 805 00:44:04,770 --> 00:44:07,489 S2: able to overcome, um, some of the things and even 806 00:44:07,489 --> 00:44:10,010 S2: some of the things she still might be dealing with. Um, 807 00:44:10,010 --> 00:44:13,410 S2: you know. Yeah. Yeah. I think we can make that happen. 808 00:44:13,570 --> 00:44:16,770 S1: Jamie, you hang on. Tricia will get your information. And 809 00:44:16,770 --> 00:44:19,890 S1: thank you for being open and honest with us here today. 810 00:44:20,130 --> 00:44:23,370 S1: I want to end with a, a feeling of, of 811 00:44:23,410 --> 00:44:27,489 S1: hope that even though the process, you know, you could 812 00:44:27,489 --> 00:44:29,890 S1: see the problem in your life and Jamie knows what 813 00:44:29,890 --> 00:44:33,810 S1: the problem is and she knows the deliverance. She knows 814 00:44:33,810 --> 00:44:39,490 S1: what the the promise is. It's this process time. So, uh, 815 00:44:39,690 --> 00:44:42,250 S1: there is hope. There is hope for anybody who going 816 00:44:42,250 --> 00:44:45,330 S1: through the process for John and Jamie and others. Right? 817 00:44:46,050 --> 00:44:48,890 S2: Absolutely. There is hope. I mean, and that's the beautiful thing. 818 00:44:48,890 --> 00:44:51,250 S2: And that's the reason why I wrote that third part 819 00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:53,450 S2: of the book, The Promise, because I wanted to show 820 00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:56,130 S2: people that if we truly believe that Jesus is the 821 00:44:56,130 --> 00:44:59,689 S2: same yesterday, today, and forever. I went through all these 822 00:44:59,690 --> 00:45:02,610 S2: stories in the Bible of how Jesus set people free 823 00:45:02,610 --> 00:45:06,130 S2: of various different soul chains, whether it was sexual soul chains, 824 00:45:06,170 --> 00:45:09,650 S2: you know, the woman at the well, whether it's low self-esteem, 825 00:45:10,050 --> 00:45:14,770 S2: relational soul chains, um, all kinds of different kinds. Uh, 826 00:45:15,090 --> 00:45:18,770 S2: you know, if Jesus can, could do that, then then 827 00:45:18,770 --> 00:45:21,569 S2: that means that he is not only able to, but 828 00:45:21,570 --> 00:45:23,810 S2: he's more than willing to set us free today from 829 00:45:23,810 --> 00:45:26,170 S2: whatever has us bound. Yeah. 830 00:45:26,690 --> 00:45:30,210 S1: And then allow the wound to become a place of 831 00:45:30,210 --> 00:45:36,170 S1: healing for our own souls and then for others. Because 832 00:45:36,170 --> 00:45:39,330 S1: I guarantee you, Ellen, there are people listening here today 833 00:45:39,530 --> 00:45:42,649 S1: who've given up hope, who've believed that lie. You know, 834 00:45:42,650 --> 00:45:44,650 S1: this is the way it's always going to be. This 835 00:45:44,650 --> 00:45:46,569 S1: is the way our relationship is always going to be. 836 00:45:46,570 --> 00:45:48,690 S1: This is the way my life's going to be. Whatever 837 00:45:48,690 --> 00:45:52,890 S1: it is, the addiction or whatever is the struggle, the anxiety. 838 00:45:52,969 --> 00:45:54,649 S1: It's just going to have to live this the rest 839 00:45:54,650 --> 00:45:58,930 S1: of my life. No, it's not true. So there is 840 00:45:58,930 --> 00:46:01,250 S1: help and there is hope. And there are people who 841 00:46:01,250 --> 00:46:04,730 S1: want to help unwrap, like we talked about a little before. 842 00:46:05,170 --> 00:46:07,330 S1: I'm so glad you wrote the book. Thank you for 843 00:46:07,330 --> 00:46:11,250 S1: joining us today, Ellen, and keep doing what you're doing, friend. 844 00:46:11,250 --> 00:46:12,810 S1: Come back and see us again, okay? 845 00:46:13,290 --> 00:46:15,410 S2: Will do. Chris, thank you so much for having me. 846 00:46:15,450 --> 00:46:16,090 S2: God bless. 847 00:46:16,530 --> 00:46:20,450 S1: The title of the book is Breaking Through How Ordinary 848 00:46:20,450 --> 00:46:25,930 S1: Believers Experience Extraordinary Freedom. Just go to chris.org and you'll 849 00:46:25,930 --> 00:46:28,050 S1: see it there on the home page and then the 850 00:46:28,489 --> 00:46:33,250 S1: the program page. And look up Alan on YouTube for 851 00:46:33,250 --> 00:46:38,250 S1: the beat. Alan Parker PARR and come on back. Laura 852 00:46:38,250 --> 00:46:41,850 S1: story always a great program when Laura comes along. Chris 853 00:46:41,890 --> 00:46:44,930 S1: Faber lives production of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody 854 00:46:45,010 --> 00:46:47,650 S1: Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.