S1: Coming to you from the Morning Star Mission sponsored studio.
S1: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio with me.
S2: This morning, doctor Chris Fabry. How are you doing, doc?
S3: You gave me a PhD.
S2: Yeah. Oh, I love conferring things. I get up early.
S3: On Monday, I get a PhD.
S2: I like what are you doing up so early? I couldn't.
S3: Sleep last night because I'm so excited about what's going
S3: on this.
S2: Week. We're here in the grapevine, and I'm not talking
S2: the one that goes from Central Valley over into the
S2: Los Angeles Bowl. We're hearing grapevine, Texas, and we're broadcasting
S2: live this week. From here. We're going to be just
S2: loaded up with guests the majority of this week. This
S2: morning we've got a great start. We just get to
S2: be with you boom crew. And we're thrilled about it. Chris,
S2: as you think about listeners, what are the greatest observations
S2: you've made in your how many years of broadcasting, by
S2: the way?
S3: You know, I was thinking about it because I when
S3: I checked in yesterday, Kerby Anderson was right behind me.
S3: I met Kerby Anderson 40 years ago, almost.
S2: Was Kerby in a Was he standing upright?
S3: He was? Yeah. He and his wife were there. Probe
S3: ministries took over for Marlin Maddox with with his program
S3: point of view. And you know, there's there's a lot
S3: in in religious broadcasting quote unquote. There's a lot of competition.
S3: You know, we're going for this group or we're going
S3: to do this. And and what I saw in that
S3: line with Kirby was we were all in this together.
S3: We're all doing the same thing. Those whose hearts are,
S3: are pointed toward Christ. Yeah. So I think one of
S3: the things that that I've learned through those years is
S3: get your heart tuned to him. Yeah. And then do
S3: what he asked you to do and let everything go.
S2: Yeah. No, I believe that 100%. You know, it's interesting
S2: here we when we think about broadcasting and there's going
S2: to be a slew of people here. Boone crew. You
S2: kind of got to get a feel for this here.
S2: We're in this, uh, what would you call this little suite?
S2: And there's all kinds of chairs and In tabletop setup.
S2: And there's going to be folks in here this morning,
S2: many of whom are listening to Moody Radio, some doing
S2: a deeper dive on what are you doing? Do we
S2: want to pick up what you're doing and put it
S2: on our network or on our station? So there's syndicators,
S2: small and large, and the opportunity is huge. How important
S2: is it for a clarion gospel? Are you what? Are
S2: you feeling different. Ah, yeah. This is what I want
S2: to know from you. What? Are you feeling different now
S2: than you were, say, 20 years ago in radio?
S3: Okay, I'll go even further back than that to.
S2: Trying to be. Yeah, I'm trying to be kind.
S3: I was just thinking last night, you know, how much
S3: striving there was for me when I was younger. And
S3: I really want to, you know, make a name and
S3: do the thing and get the numbers and get the
S3: guests and, you know, jockey for position and all that,
S3: and all of that has pretty much with maturity or
S3: with some age has gone away. And it's like, talk
S3: to the people who are struggling. And I'll say that
S3: to those who are listening right now who are part
S3: of the boom crew, you be praying for the people
S3: who walk in here, who have stations, who say, you know,
S3: we need something going on in the morning, and maybe
S3: Carl and crew. Maybe that would be something you'd be
S3: praying about. That. Or for those who are thinking about
S3: Chris Fabry live or Janet Parshall or whatever. Yeah. Um,
S3: you know, be praying that there would be people not
S3: so that we could build our kingdom, but so that
S3: God could use us and steward well what he's given
S3: to us. So I want to go away from the striving. Yeah.
S3: And and really rest and wait patiently on what he's doing.
S2: Yeah. It's a it's an interesting thing. I wish it
S2: hadn't taken me as many years as it has, because I'm.
S2: By God's grace and by his mercy, I'm really at
S2: a good place in life. And that is my chief
S2: aim is to help people really take their next step
S2: with Jesus when they're.
S3: I think listeners sense that, too. I think they sense
S3: because you look, let's be honest. You've got some intensity
S3: to you, Carl. You know, I'm a pretty chill.
S2: I'm a pretty chill guy.
S3: To be honest. You got some intensity to you, but
S3: it's focused on what he's doing in you and through
S3: you then. And that's what people pick up and what
S3: they're responding to.
S2: Well, coming up here in a moment, we're going to
S2: ask you a question, and I want you to text
S2: it right now. Why do you come here to this show?
S2: Why are you here? That's that. Why are you here?
S2: We're going to get some response from you. We got
S2: somebody in the house.
S4: Good morning.
S2: We got Young Thunder in the house. Hey, hey. We
S2: got Ali holding down the fort back. Back yonder.
S5: Ali?
S2: Is she in studio there?
S5: She's there. That's okay. We'll get her in a minute.
S2: Yeah, we'll get her in a minute. But we are
S2: overjoyed that we're here in Texas. And they've got big
S2: Ole burgers. You can't get a burger. That's not a
S2: double patty here, I'll tell you. Coming up here in
S2: a moment, we're going to break it down and we're
S2: going to take texts from you right now. Young Thunder,
S2: how did they do that?
S5: My man, just text us at 800 555 78, 98.
S5: Text US 800 555 7898.
S2: Why are you here? What are you here for? I
S2: want to hear about it right now. What's what in
S2: the world? What? What causes you to tune in here?
S2: And us knowing that we'll even do a better job?
S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stent for anything you
S1: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's
S1: Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
S2: We're getting some good responses here, aren't we? Of what
S2: in the world people come here for?
S6: I really like this question because I'm loving seeing so
S6: much of your response. You want to be pushed. You
S6: want to be encouraged. Encouragement in your faith 9299 let's
S6: see to listen and learn more about Jesus. Simple but
S6: well put. Encouragement and inspiration. 3647 47 says 0904 Carl,
S6: what do you think about this one? To help keep
S6: the devil away. Does listening to Christian radio help keep
S6: the devil away?
S2: Yeah. If you can build a biblical case with music,
S2: when you see David ministering to Saul with a harp
S2: and the demonic spirits flee. So, yeah, you can build
S2: a case for that. My wife's a big believer in that, right? Babe,
S2: I'm speaking to her back in Chicago right now, and
S2: she can listen to me. Uh, but yeah, it can.
S2: It can do that. Before we lose. You give your
S2: word of encouragement this morning for the troops.
S6: My word of encouragement to you is, no matter how
S6: many times you feel like you have failed as a husband,
S6: as a wife, as a father, as a mom, as
S6: a friend, as a child of God, you feel like
S6: you've failed so many times. His mercies are new every morning.
S6: Great is his faithfulness. Do not let past failures keep
S6: you from going for it with God today.
S2: Boom boom. That's right on, because God's got the grace
S2: to do a mulligan, right, Ali?
S6: Absolutely.
S2: He does. Yeah. Chris Faber, you're up.
S3: I was thinking of Don Cole being here at National
S3: Religious Broadcasters and his statement, I've just, uh, woke up
S3: thinking of this struggle is not a sign of failure.
S3: Struggle is a sign of life. So if you are
S3: struggling today, if there's something that's going on that you
S3: are trying to overcome the killing sin. ET cetera. Struggle
S3: is not a sign that God is not at work.
S3: It's a sign that he is at work. So trust
S3: in him.
S2: You know, people ask me often, you know, is there
S2: a chance I've lost my salvation? I say the mere
S2: fact that you're questioning that tells me you haven't. Yes.
S2: And plus the acknowledgement of that is. My goodness. By
S2: the way, the only unpardonable sin is to deny the
S2: deity of Jesus Christ. That's the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit. Now,
S2: don't be worried about that, people. Don't. Don't do that,
S2: super guy. What's your word of encouragement today?
S4: My encouragement is that you're waking up and whatever you
S4: may be facing today could be work related, health related.
S4: You may be waking up and you know what? You
S4: have to attend a funeral today. You don't know what
S4: you're facing today. I love Second Chronicles 2017. Do not
S4: fear or be dismayed. Go out and face the day,
S4: for the Lord is with you. You are not alone today, friend. Wow.
S2: Good word. Good word. Man. We need to do this
S2: more often. Young Thunder, what do you got?
S5: Yeah. Today God brought to my mind Exodus 1414. When
S5: Moses and the Israelites were about to cross the Red sea.
S5: But before they knew they were going to cross the
S5: Red sea and their backs were up against the against
S5: the water, and the and the Egyptians were coming after them.
S5: And Moses goes to God and says, God, what do
S5: we do? And Lord says, the Lord will fight for you.
S5: You need only to be still. We don't need to
S5: try to muster up our way of escape. We don't
S5: need to try and figure it out ourselves. Be still.
S5: Seek God and let him do the fighting for you.
S2: Boom! That's good. Want some encouragement? You got it today.
S2: We got a lot of encouragement for you today. Boom, crew.
S2: And we're overjoyed that you're with us. As a matter
S2: of fact, I want to give you a heads up.
S2: In fact, be praying. Would you pray? Pray that God
S2: would move this year in share unlike ever before. And
S2: I've got some great news for you that's going to
S2: blow your mind to that end. But we're going to
S2: do a one hour kind of blitz share at the
S2: top of this next hour. And I want you to
S2: be in prayer that God would move in the hearts
S2: of people. And I got some fuel for the fire. Man,
S2: we're going to put some birch logs on this thing,
S2: and you're going to be blown away with what God
S2: is up to coming up here in a little bit.
S2: I'm going to tackle a question that has to do
S2: with finances in marriage. And I want to warn you
S2: of Financial infidelity. We'll get into that coming up here.
S2: This is Brandon Lake. Hard fought. Hallelujah. Love what Brandon's
S2: writing these days. Good stuff. Guys, let's go follow Jesus today.
S2: The tomb is empty. Our God is alive. And you
S2: are as well.
S1: She's a choreographer extraordinaire. And everything is Greek to her.
S1: Super die is in the crew. It's Carl and crew
S1: on Moody Radio.
S2: It's Carl and crew mornings. You hear Super Die talking
S2: in the background and everything is.
S4: Because my equipment.
S2: Around. We're at DNB, which stands for National Relationship with
S2: the one who can Save broadcasters.
S5: Amen.
S4: Amen.
S2: That's what I'm going with. I keep changing that. You do?
S5: I like the changes, though. You're keeping it creative. Yeah.
S2: It's better than religious. Yeah.
S5: Because there's a difference between religion and relationship.
S2: Yeah, and I don't want to get too crazy on
S2: that because James, the half brother of Jesus, did say
S2: there is true religion.
S5: No doubt about.
S2: That. And he wasn't talking about genes.
S7: Wow.
S5: That was good. Good call.
S2: Make sure we're right here. We got it. On a
S2: serious note, we've got some great people that are going
S2: to be coming through here all week, and I want
S2: to set this topic up with something that is absolutely heartbreaking. Uh,
S2: goodness sakes, I might cry. Yeah, my bride told me yesterday.
S2: Was it yesterday? Two days ago? She said, bub, have
S2: you heard the word coming out of the Congo? Uh,
S2: there were 70 of our brothers and sisters, men and women,
S2: boys and girls, that were rousted out by radical Islamists.
S2: The Congo is notoriously very Christianized, but the Islamic radicals
S2: are really wreaking havoc. And they rounded 70 men and women,
S2: boys and girls out of their homes, took them into
S2: a church and took off their heads. And it was
S2: five days later that the militants allowed their loved ones
S2: to even bury their bodies. The amazing thing is that
S2: they did not renounce their faith when they had, from
S2: what I understand, an opportunity to open doors, shared that story.
S2: And you think about that kind of persecution. And because
S2: I've been to Africa so many times, I feel like
S2: I can see some faces. And it's heartbreaking. In Bujumbura, Burundi,
S2: the poorest country, that's the capital, Bujumbura. But in Burundi,
S2: guy's poorest country on the planet, poorer than Sudan. And
S2: now you won't know this because mainstream media is not
S2: talking about it because there's so much I'm not saying
S2: they're complicit. I'm just saying there's so much in the news.
S2: But there is the Hutu and Tutsi uprising is going
S2: again here. They've been, what, 20 years clear of a
S2: civil war. And now here we go again. 15 years,
S2: I guess. What do we do? And when we see
S2: ourselves in the public square and get some hostility. It
S2: seems very small, comparatively. Doesn't Natasha? Natasha Crane with me
S2: right now? That seems pretty small, doesn't it?
S8: It does.
S2: It does. What's that? What's that feel like when I did,
S2: you know, about what was going in the Congo with
S2: those people that have lost their lives in the most
S2: horrific way?
S8: Yeah, I've seen that. I mean, it's a whole different
S8: level than anything that we talk about when we talk
S8: about hostility in the US. Of course.
S2: How does someone stand up to hostility? Apart from the
S2: grace of God? The answer is we don't, do we?
S8: Yeah. I mean, we have to rely on the Lord,
S8: and we have to be so convicted that all truth
S8: is God's truth and that it matters that we stand
S8: up for truth. Yeah, that that that's how we do it.
S8: If we're not convicted that Christianity is actually true, then
S8: we're going to shrink back as soon as there's any
S8: little bit of hostility. You know, we're not facing anything
S8: in the US like what our brothers and sisters are
S8: facing in other places. And still so many Christians are
S8: afraid to speak up and speak truth because they don't.
S8: They don't want to be attacked in any way.
S2: Is it a need for more grace? Is it? What
S2: causes that fear of man? And I don't want to
S2: Pooh Pooh that, because, I mean, some of the greats
S2: that we find in Scripture. When the fire got hot,
S2: it some buckled. Peter's a great example, but he ultimately
S2: stood and was resolved as he was filled with the
S2: Spirit at Pentecost. I mean, what you've studied this, you've
S2: researched it. What is the secret spiritual source that gives
S2: us the stuff that lets us persevere?
S8: Well, I don't know if there's one secret sauce thing,
S8: but I will say that according to the research, about 65%
S8: of people in America say that they're Christian. So that's
S8: just a self-identified number. But people can call themselves a
S8: Christian for any reason.
S2: We are big believers of that, and a lot of
S2: people call them. But are they really?
S8: That's exactly right. And so other research that's looking at
S8: what people actually believe. In particular, the worldview inventory that
S8: comes out of Arizona Christian University's Cultural Research Center, which
S8: is headed by Doctor George Barnett. When they look at
S8: the percent of people who actually have a biblical worldview,
S8: meaning they see all of reality through the lens of
S8: what the Bible teaches, they find that it's only about 4%
S8: of Americans. So just think about that gap for a minute,
S8: where you have 65% of people saying, hey, yes, I'm
S8: a Christian in America, and only 4% who actually believe
S8: the core truths of what the Bible teaches. Of course,
S8: we're not going to see a lot of Christians standing
S8: up for what's true, because they don't actually adhere to
S8: what the Bible teaches or believe it.
S2: We've been using that data for two weeks now on
S2: our morning show. That is a sobering forecast from George
S2: Barna and 4%. So what's that gap? There's a big
S2: chunk that have a cultural Christianity which is not biblical Christianity.
S2: They aren't born again, so they claim the name of Jesus.
S2: What else fills that gap? What? What's in that gap?
S8: Well, I think that there and I don't see that
S8: Barna has actually done this specific research to break it out.
S8: So this is kind of based on my experience of
S8: what I've seen. But there are those who don't know,
S8: they don't have a biblical worldview, and there are those
S8: who don't claim to have a biblical worldview. So they
S8: would say they're a Christian, but they would not say
S8: that they believe in the authority of Scripture, for example.
S8: So if you don't believe in the authority of Scripture,
S8: obviously you're not going to it for your source of truth.
S8: You're not going to see the world through the lens
S8: of what the Bible teaches. Others are just confused. Others
S8: say they're a Christian and they say, yes, the Bible
S8: is God's Word, but when you really get down to
S8: it and ask them about their beliefs, they don't actually
S8: line up with what the Bible teaches because we're not
S8: reading the Bible enough. As Christians, we're not in God's Word,
S8: so we don't actually understand what it teaches.
S2: So you get a passion for this because you've written
S2: on it extensively, and we're going to be promoting a
S2: great resource coming up here in a little bit. Boom crew.
S2: But what do you do when culture hates you and
S2: you want to just coach us up? Right now? There's
S2: a gap between do I believe it and am I
S2: willing to stand up for it? How does knowledge of
S2: a worldview. Build fuel for that fire to stand when
S2: the fire gets hot.
S8: Yeah, that's a great question. When when you have the
S8: knowledge based on what God has revealed, that means that
S8: you have the conviction of knowing who God is and
S8: who man is and what our relationship is. And when
S8: you have that, then you're actually relying on what you
S8: know to be true about reality. It's not just a,
S8: you know, kind of pie in the sky guess about, well,
S8: I think this is what God would want in the
S8: public square. I think this is what God would want
S8: for other people and and for me, you know, because
S8: you've gone to Scripture and you've said, this is what
S8: the God of the universe has said. He's the creator
S8: and sustainer of all things. And this is what he's
S8: told me about what's good for people? Objectively good. Not just, hey,
S8: I feel like this is good, but what's objectively good.
S8: So that knowledge translates into action when you're convicted that
S8: it's God who has revealed it, and not just something
S8: I've come up with.
S2: So it's below the waterline. It's that stuff that matters most.
S2: And I'm convinced I'm convicted that the the essence of
S2: biblical Christianity is not out here. It's not what everyone sees.
S2: It's not us jumping pews and and even utilizing our
S2: gifts or giving our money. It's what is embedded in
S2: our heart the truth of God's Word. 50 Promises in
S2: Psalm 119 just about getting God's Word in our heart
S2: and what it's going to do for us. That's where
S2: worldview generates this confidence in Christ.
S8: That's right. And if we as Christians took our Bible
S8: study more seriously, I mean, the research also shows that
S8: we're not doing it deeply and consistently. So if we
S8: took it more seriously, imagine how we could actually change
S8: the world for the Lord and shining light in this
S8: dark culture, I believe it.
S2: Our guest right now, Natasha Crane, she's got a new
S2: resource when culture hates you, persevering for the common good
S2: as Christians in a hostile public square, we're going to
S2: feature that coming up in just a minute. Keep it
S2: pinned right here, helping you take your next step with Jesus.
S1: You're listening to Curl and Crew on Moody Radio.
S2: How do you persevere in the public square when the
S2: square thinks we're square? I'm old enough to remember when
S2: square was a denigrating statement. Anyone else out there? Anyone
S2: remember when? When we were kids? Yeah.
S4: I'm so square.
S2: Yeah. That was that was a very hippie statement.
S4: And you put the fingers to it, too. When you
S4: did it, you kind of made that square in front
S4: of you. Yeah.
S2: For sure. It's all right. I'll be square for the gospel. Uh,
S2: when culture hates you, persevering for the common good as
S2: Christians in a hostile public square. Hostility is an interesting word.
S2: It's starting to kind of show itself a bit. I
S2: think I'm more focused on how do we stand strong.
S2: Natasha Crane is with me right now. You've written a
S2: whole book on this. How in the world do we
S2: stand strong? We get. We've already just established that we've
S2: got to have a biblical worldview, which means we've got
S2: to get in the word and get the word into us.
S2: Give us another thought on that. Why is that so vital?
S8: Well, I think that it resets our expectations. When we
S8: understand what Scripture teaches, then we don't expect for culture
S8: to like us. We don't expect that. Oh, you know,
S8: as long as people think I'm nice, then I must
S8: be doing the right thing because Jesus warned his disciples,
S8: you know, if the world hates you, know that it
S8: has hated me before. It hated you. So if we
S8: actually know Scripture, then we're going to understand when people
S8: cut us off, which is happening a lot today. I
S8: hear from people more and more about family members cutting
S8: them off and friends cutting them off, even losing jobs
S8: over it. I think when we start to see that
S8: and we start to look at Scripture, we say, well,
S8: this is what we knew to expect. So resetting our expectations,
S8: I think, is an important part of this.
S5: That's great. Natasha, you know, I was thinking about that.
S5: And people talk about, you know, losing loved ones and
S5: family members and friends and that is so accurate and
S5: it's so difficult. I also think about kind of the
S5: other side of the pendulum here instead of not speaking truth.
S5: Maybe sometimes speaking truth in a way that isn't helpful,
S5: isn't kind, isn't upbringing to people. We kind of turn
S5: ourselves into angry evangelicals, you know, people that where we're
S5: saying the truth of God, but we're not saying it
S5: with the love of God, you know, and it kind
S5: of turns people off and turns people away from us,
S5: kind of makes us look like a jerk. How do
S5: we how do we speak the truth? Or when do
S5: we speak the truth so that we don't sound like
S5: an angry evangelical?
S8: Yeah, that's a really great point. I think that, you know,
S8: it's one thing to say we can't gauge whether or
S8: not we're being truthful by people's responses to us, but
S8: if someone is saying, hey, you are being a jerk
S8: about this, you're not you're not being loving in the
S8: way you said that it's important that we take a
S8: look at ourselves and say, what's my motivation for speaking
S8: truth right now? I always want to bring it back
S8: to that. If your motivation is that you love God
S8: and therefore you love others, then that is going to
S8: lead you into a position of speaking truth with grace.
S8: And if you mess up, we're humans. If you mess
S8: up and you say something in a way that maybe,
S8: you know, you could have done it better, then say that. Say, hey,
S8: you know, I said something today, I don't I don't
S8: like the way that I said that. Let me take
S8: a step back and say this. So yes, we absolutely
S8: have to speak truth in love, but we can't judge
S8: whether or not we have been loving only by people's
S8: responses to us because the gospel is offensive.
S2: Yeah, and what's strange? And it's so hard to get
S2: your head around this, but we're born as enemies of
S2: the cross, and we talk a lot about this, and
S2: that feels like, hold it. But if we're born with
S2: our backs to God, we're born as enemies of the cross,
S2: and only the blood of Jesus Christ can regenerate our
S2: soul and get us reconciled with him. We need to
S2: remember that people's predisposition is going to be against truth,
S2: mainly because it bumps up against their inborn worldview.
S8: Yeah, that's exactly right. When we speak truth to people,
S8: they they are enemies of the cross, like you're saying.
S8: I mean, Scripture makes it clear that people are either
S8: children of God or children of Satan. And that sounds that.
S2: Sounds so harsh.
S8: It does. It sounds so harsh. But this is what
S8: Scripture teaches that you are either of the world or
S8: you are of God, and those who are of the
S8: world are slaves to sin. Those who are of God
S8: are slaves to righteousness. So of course, those who are
S8: slaves to sin are going to hate when those who
S8: are children of God are shining light on the works
S8: of evil. And yet that's what Scripture says is to
S8: take no part in it, but to expose the deeds
S8: of darkness.
S2: There's got to be a story behind why in the
S2: world you wrote this book, and we're going to give
S2: you a link here. When Culture Hates you, Natasha is
S2: a podcaster. She's got a lot going on. There's got
S2: to be something inside you. A story that said, I
S2: got to write this thing.
S8: Well, the catalyst really was that when I get out
S8: and I do conferences and speaking events of various kinds,
S8: and I meet people everywhere who have been cut off
S8: by family members. And it's just really this tragic trend
S8: right now. I mean, everywhere I go, I am greeted
S8: by people who say, I don't know what to do.
S8: My adult children won't talk to me anymore because of
S8: my views on this issue or that issue. And so
S8: when they do that, it's just heartbreaking because I feel
S8: like there's a lack of understanding in the church about
S8: why the culture is hostile, why are these things taking place?
S8: And so I really wanted to write a book that
S8: would help to shed light on that, to say, hey,
S8: this is why the culture hates us. In a lot
S8: of cases, when you understand that hostility, it's going to
S8: give you a little bit more strength. It's not going
S8: to be easy, but it's important so that we can
S8: better engage with the culture and then be the light
S8: that we're called to be in spite of that hostility.
S2: How do you not let your positions be politicized? What
S2: I mean by that is how do you distance? Because
S2: sometimes a certain position can instantly be politicized. We don't
S2: want to do that. As Christ followers. We're way we're
S2: supposed to rise above the fray of political discourse. Sometimes
S2: you can't miss it because it's there. But how do
S2: you distance that in a loving way from going, hold it,
S2: time out. I don't want you to leap to this
S2: is a political view, but rather this is a truth
S2: of scripture. How do you do that?
S8: Well, that's a huge topic. And I think it comes
S8: back to how somebody defines politicized or political. So in
S8: the book, I give a definition of the political as
S8: just being that the way in which people who are
S8: living in community make decisions about how they're living together.
S8: So if we kind of strip away all the baggage
S8: that can come along with that word, and we just
S8: think it's about how do we make decisions as a nation,
S8: then of course, Christians should participate in that, but not
S8: because we are adhering to one political party or the other,
S8: but because we're driving our views from Scripture itself, because
S8: we're saying this is what Scripture teaches about the nature
S8: of human life. This is what Scripture teaches about the
S8: purpose of human beings. When we start to get those
S8: things right, then we're coming back to the Bible for
S8: our views and not saying, well, I believe this because
S8: this party says so, or that party says so. So
S8: it always starts with the Bible pointing us in the
S8: direction that we're going to advocate for the common good.
S2: Somebody opens up your book and they start on page one.
S2: How do you want them to be different by the
S2: time they get to the last page in the book.
S8: I want them to understand that Christianity is not a
S8: private faith. It's not something where we just sit in
S8: our living room and only have a relationship with Jesus.
S8: Of course, we have to start with a relationship with Jesus,
S8: but from that relationship is going to flow all kinds
S8: of other implications about how we need to shine light
S8: in the darkness. There is so much darkness in our culture.
S8: This is a culture that is in deep rebellion against
S8: its creator. Yes, and we need to be the ones
S8: if we're not going to do it. Who is? Who
S8: is going to be out there sharing God's truth? So yes,
S8: it all starts with our personal relationship with Jesus, but
S8: it's got to go to the next step also to
S8: be the light that we are called to be, to
S8: shine the light on the works of.
S2: Darkness, I love it. You know, there's we were touching
S2: base on this one here, I think it was last Friday.
S2: But there's there's three distinct barriers to authentic faith in
S2: Jesus Christ. One is rebellion, the other one's blindness. The
S2: God of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelieving.
S2: And the other one is deception. People that are in
S2: the church who are going to say, Lord, Lord, and
S2: he's going to say, I never knew you. This whole worldview,
S2: there's there's something about it that's going to embed confidence
S2: in your relationship with Jesus. When you begin to get
S2: in the word and the word gets into you.
S8: That's right. Because then it becomes this objective knowledge. It's
S8: not just I feel this because I've always been a
S8: Christian or I always grew up in a Christian home,
S8: but it's I know this is true. I know this
S8: is true. Even if at any given time I feel
S8: like God's not there, I can come back to the
S8: objective knowledge that this is truth, that God's Word is
S8: true for all time.
S2: Guys, I want you to check it out. If the
S2: Spirit of God is prompt in your heart when culture
S2: hates you, persevering for the common good as Christians in
S2: a hostile public square, and you know who this is for?
S2: This is my heart for you right now. You got
S2: a wayward kid that maybe went to university and you're like,
S2: what in the world happened? This kid was raised in church.
S2: Just because they're raised in church doesn't mean they're in Christ.
S2: And we don't need to talk him back into getting
S2: in church. Maybe we need to be real salt and light.
S2: Light to our kids. Light to our loved ones, it says. Hey,
S2: I've got a well-grounded faith. It's not. It's not meme faith.
S2: It's real faith. And let me talk with you about
S2: core issues. Hang on. We got a resource for you.
S2: Text the word culture right now. Text the word culture
S2: to our number right here and we'll get a link
S2: out to you. Culture to 800 555 7898. Just text
S2: culture to 805 five five 7898. We'll get this into
S2: your hands, wherever you are. Canada. Alabama. Chicagoland. Where we
S2: originate from or beyond. Come and get it. Text culture
S2: to 800 555 7898. I want to thank you from
S2: the bottom of my heart. Natasha, we not only do
S2: we have common stomping grounds for a little bit. Tustin, California.
S2: That's a funny story. Little podunk place called Tustin, and
S2: my wife and I spent a year there, and that's
S2: where you reside. Thank you for being salt and light
S2: in our culture today. And thank you for writing this.
S8: Thank you so much. It's great talking with you.
S2: Text culture to 800 555 7898. Culture to 800 555 7898. Oh, man.
S2: You're grabbing up this resource left and right. Boom! Crew.
S2: Way to go, guys. We love you. Let's go, let's
S2: go do it. Let's radiate the truth of God in
S2: this culture today.
S1: A basketball mom who's mastered the dad joke. Ali is
S1: in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
S2: All right, guys, we're rolling here. We are broadcasting live
S2: from NB. You know what that stands for? What's that
S2: national Relationship with Jesus, the King of Kings and the
S2: one who sets us free and causes us to be
S2: salt and light in this world till today. Hold on.
S2: I'm not done. Broadcaster. Oh thank you, thank you. Important
S2: NB I got to get the broadcast right.
S5: Otherwise it's just an hour.
S2: My goodness. All right, I'm going to bring a man
S2: in here. I have known him from afar for a
S2: lot of years. Phil Cook, you're a wild man for Jesus.
S9: Well, I'm kind of that's. I've never been introduced that way.
S9: But it works. That works. That really does.
S2: There's a lot of firsts around here, Phil.
S9: I can see that.
S2: Uh, it's great to have you with us. Give us
S2: your background. Uh, tell us your spiritual story.
S9: I'm a preacher's kid from Charlotte, North Carolina.
S2: And you're in recovery.
S9: I am recovery. You know what? I've grown up. I
S9: spent my life behind the scenes in church. I've mowed
S9: the church. Cemetery. Growing up, I filled a million communion cups.
S9: I did church bulletins in the mimeograph machine. Oh, no.
S2: Yeah, I remember those machines. They got ink all over
S2: your fingers.
S9: Exactly. I have nightmares, and no, I loved it. And
S9: I've never had a calling to be a pastor. But
S9: I've always seen that. You know what? We don't project
S9: the best image out there to the general culture. Very
S9: often we the way we tell our story, the way
S9: we engage the culture. So somehow God pulled me into
S9: this media, television, film arena. And I've been producing films
S9: and television programs, and we focus mostly on how to
S9: engage the culture with the gospel. And we just want
S9: to help churches use media more effectively.
S2: All right. I'm gonna do something totally different. You want to. First,
S2: I want you to tell me, what are the high
S2: points of your career in Christ, that you go, man?
S2: God showed up right here.
S9: Oh, gosh. Where do I start? I think, you know,
S9: when I getting into this business was a powerful way
S9: to do it. I started college as a piano major.
S9: My dad was a pastor, so that's what I that
S9: was my job description at the time.
S2: Now it would be guitar, but it was piano.
S9: It was piano back then, and I enrolled as a
S9: piano major, and I had made little super eight movies
S9: in high school with a group of my buddies and
S9: took them to college, discovered a friend across the hall
S9: in the dorm that could edit films, and I didn't
S9: even know you could cut film. And he showed me
S9: how to do it. The professor saw one of them said, man,
S9: I've got students that have been taken for years that
S9: can't do this well. Can I show this to my
S9: class tomorrow? So I said, sure. So I went in,
S9: sat in the back of the row, you know, during
S9: the class the next day, he showed my little movie
S9: and they discussed it, and I had this crystal clear
S9: moment of revelation I don't think I've had before since
S9: that if I could do something with a camera that
S9: makes people talk like this, this is what I'm supposed
S9: to do with my life. God completely changed the trajectory
S9: of my life at that moment, and I've never looked back.
S9: It's been, what, 40, 45 years? I've never looked back.
S2: You've got a unique vantage point on the church.
S9: I do, yeah.
S2: And it gives you a level of objectivity that's helpful.
S9: Yeah. It's interesting. It is the intersection of media and culture.
S9: You know, media is the language today's culture speaks. And
S9: I think as Christians, if we don't use media effectively,
S9: we're going to we're just going to drop out of
S9: the conversation. And we wonder why Christianity is disappearing from
S9: the culture. I think a lot of it is because
S9: we don't speak the language of today's culture.
S2: Coming up, Phil Cooke with us here, filmmaker, thinker, PhD,
S2: and helping us understand what really matters is the church
S2: on trial. Phil Cooke says, yes, the church is on
S2: trial and that's what we're going to break down coming
S2: up here straight ahead.
S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
S1: Moody Radio.
S2: Interesting thing here. What a setup. Sometimes we are ashamed
S2: and that keeps us in trouble. All right, I'm going
S2: to cut to the chase. We got Phil Cook here.
S2: How in the world did you write a book? Church
S2: on trial. And what are we on trial for?
S9: You know, it's so often if you've seen the headlines lately,
S9: in the last couple of years, you've seen a lot
S9: of scandals in churches. A lot of it.
S2: Seems like it's it was like two decades, three decades ago.
S2: It was a rash of them and now it's coming
S2: back again.
S9: It does. And over the years, I'm a media producer.
S9: I'm not an attorney or a counselor. But early in
S9: my career, I started getting calls from churches, pastors, leaders saying, look,
S9: we're going through a crisis. Can you help us? What
S9: should we do? How do we tell the congregation? How
S9: do we tell the public? Do we release a statement?
S9: Just a lot of communication related questions. Yeah. So I
S9: stepped in and started working with quite a number. And
S9: after all these years and seeing all these headlines, I decided,
S9: let's put it into a book. So a pastor, an
S9: executive pastor, board members can have it on their desk
S9: in case a crisis happens. Okay.
S2: What what is it that causes churches to handle things poorly,
S2: whether it's outside conflict with the culture or internal compromise?
S9: Yeah, I think a lot of things. A big part
S9: of it is they mean well, they're trying to protect someone.
S9: Maybe they're trying to protect a family in the church
S9: or protect the pastor. Very often if the pastor is
S9: accused of something, we we tend to circle the wagons
S9: and protect him at all costs. Not thinking about the
S9: victim or the alleged victim. And so I think a
S9: big part of this is we want to do the
S9: right thing, but we're just not sure what they do.
S9: What to do. So they often cover things up or
S9: just not mention certain things or try to hide things.
S9: I'm working with the church right now that they just
S9: believe that if we don't mention it, it's going to
S9: go away eventually. Well, in today's digital social media world,
S9: it will not go away. It just gets worse.
S2: And I'm not sure that it should. It seems to
S2: me that we ought to bring this out, but at
S2: what level do you bring it out? I'm a big believer.
S2: I heard a story again here recently, where a young
S2: couple was trotted up on stage in front of people
S2: that they never knew. I know that people think pastors
S2: think this is church discipline done right. It's done wrong, right?
S2: Because you're shaming people instead of trying to restore people.
S2: How do we go forward being restorative without being punitive?
S2: How do you do that?
S9: There's a number of ways. My book doesn't cover the
S9: idea of being restored back to ministry. That's a whole
S9: different subject, a whole nother subject. Maybe it's time to
S9: go work at Home Depot for a while if you've
S9: had a long while. Yes, a long while. But I
S9: do think that we need to tell the truth, that
S9: we know we don't have to go into gory details.
S9: We don't have to trot people up on stage and
S9: humiliate them in front of the congregation. But I think
S9: when people in the church are asking when there's questions,
S9: if we're not honest, people start to speculate, they start
S9: to ask questions on social media, and it can blow
S9: up in a pretty big way.
S2: Okay. Coming up here in a few minutes, we're going
S2: to break down some of those ways that we tackle
S2: these things. And I want to give you a heads
S2: up right now I am asking you to grab this
S2: resource today for one reason. Are you ready for this,
S2: to give it to a pastor or a spiritual leader
S2: or a board member? Yeah, that that religious not for
S2: profit that those leaders because this is a resource that
S2: I'm going to pack with me as a pastor in Chicagoland,
S2: because how we handle crises when they arise is everything.
S2: So we're going to break down just a little bit
S2: of the process straight ahead.
S1: This is Curling Crew on Moody Radio.
S2: Broadcasting live from NB. What that stands for is national
S2: relationship with Jesus that transforms a sinner into a saint
S2: and doesn't make us perfect, but gives us all the
S2: grace we need to walk in abundance. Broadcasters. That's what
S2: it stands for. NB. Amen. All right. It is a
S2: joy to have Phil Cook here. I've known of you
S2: and followed you from afar. And my goodness, you're right
S2: here in front of me, my man.
S9: This is fun.
S2: This is great. This is great. Okay. Church on trial.
S2: How to protect your congregation, mission and reputation during a crisis.
S2: How do we prevent? How do we get proactive? How
S2: do we get out in front of this as a
S2: church culture?
S9: You know, one of the things I suggest in the
S9: book is being transparent. You know, as leaders, Christian leaders especially,
S9: we should always be transparent. I even go down in
S9: the book. I even outline a church in the Chicago
S9: area that was remodeling their office building. And the pastor said,
S9: you know what? I want to take away any opportunity
S9: for people to stumble. And he put a window and
S9: a glass door in every office.
S2: Boom, boom. I'm a big believer.
S9: And people will often say, well, if they want to
S9: have a relationship, they'll they'll do it somewhere else. Actually,
S9: in my experience, 90% of all illicit, you know, immoral
S9: relationships like that start in the office. Maybe we're working
S9: too late. Maybe you're, you know, a pastor and his
S9: assistant or spending. That's the time. It is. Really is.
S9: And so being, you know, in my office, I'm not
S9: even a pastor. I'm a media producer, but I've got
S9: three people in my office that have access to my email.
S9: Have they have access to my calendar? It'd be hard
S9: for me to arrange a inappropriate rendezvous with someone with
S9: all these people eyeballs looking at what I'm doing. So
S9: I think being transparent in so many areas like that,
S9: I think is critical. Another thing that's big is red flags.
S9: I don't think as Christians, you know, we want to
S9: think the best of each other. But very often we
S9: need to be more aware of red flags in the church.
S9: Does it mean we become behaviour cops because false accusations
S9: can destroy lives? But if we were more give you
S9: an example, the executive pastor that just comes in in
S9: the morning strangely looking like he's got a hangover. Maybe
S9: that youth leader that's spending a little too much time
S9: with one minor girl in the youth group. Just being
S9: aware of those things could stop it in the bud.
S9: Nip it in the bud, as Barney Fife used to say,
S9: long before it ever could blow up into a real scandal.
S9: And I think that, you know, at the airport, they
S9: say if you see something, say something. I think we
S9: should train our teams. I'll give you a good example.
S9: One church, while I was writing the book, had a
S9: visitor come one Sunday. Nice guy, young man, you know,
S9: super nice meeting everybody. Um, and a couple elders. Really
S9: sharp or. Excuse me. Ushers just noticed he was looking
S9: at kids an awful lot. So they went over to him,
S9: introduced themselves, got his name, went back to the office,
S9: looked on the sex registry list, sex offender list. There
S9: he was. And so they had to have that sit
S9: down meeting with, you know, we want you to come
S9: to church. We want Jesus to transform your life. But
S9: there's got to be boundaries.
S2: You know, when I was in Bible college, in seminary,
S2: I had one man in particular that took me aside
S2: and he lovingly said to me, never meet with a
S2: woman alone. And if there is a crisis, have a
S2: secretary or someone outside the door and the door cracked
S2: open or glass. And I've done that. And you know what?
S2: It is good. On the issue of finances. Yes, I
S2: have a policy in our church in Chicagoland with our
S2: elders that we put in place that doesn't give me
S2: or staff the latitude to go spend willy nilly at all.
S2: There's a limit, and then there's constant checks, and even
S2: third party goes through our books to report back to
S2: our elders what's going on? It seems that if we
S2: just did some preventative things, we'd keep our turkey out
S2: of the squisher.
S9: Phil, you know, a church in Alabama had a secretary
S9: who ran their finances. Come to find out, she'd embezzled
S9: more than a half $1 million over ten years from
S9: a church, and she'd paid off her house. She'd paid
S9: her for a couple cars. She'd paid for a kid
S9: to go to college.
S2: Maybe without the opportunity that might have not gone down
S2: that path.
S9: No guardrails in place, no guardrails. And the church had
S9: to close. And that's what really breaks my heart, is
S9: when churches close because of a mistake by one person,
S9: or a stupid act by one person. The church ministry
S9: shouldn't have to shut down. But this one will because
S9: she has. She's supposed to pay it back, but she's
S9: never going to be able to pay that back.
S2: We don't like to talk about this stuff.
S9: No. It's awkward. You're right. In fact, you're bold. Let
S9: me say this. You're very bold. Because many radio broadcasters,
S9: television broadcasters, podcasters I've approached about the book will say,
S9: you know, Phil, that's really not a subject I want
S9: to talk about right now. I love the book, and
S9: I'm glad you wrote it, but it's just not something
S9: I feel comfortable with. And I'm thinking, wow, look at
S9: the headlines. How can we stop this from happening so much?
S9: It's interesting.
S2: Okay, so proactivity is key. Yellow flags. Red flags. How
S2: do you keep from becoming a cynic? Because you can
S2: look around and go, my goodness.
S9: Yeah, it's true. And I've seen a lot over the
S9: years and worked with major ministries big, some of the
S9: most effective, biggest churches in the country. And I have
S9: to say that my philosophy is God is bigger than
S9: whatever bonehead happens to be representing him in a given time.
S9: You know, I just think that God is bigger than all.
S2: This, and there's thousands that haven't bowed a knee to Baal.
S9: That's true, that's true. And you know, it doesn't excuse
S9: you know, it doesn't excuse sexual abuse. It doesn't excuse embezzlement,
S9: by the way, in financial embezzlement is in the millions
S9: and millions of dollars every year in churches in America.
S9: It's staggering when you look at the embezzlement statistics, people
S9: stealing money, it's staggering.
S2: So those stick on this money thing for a moment
S2: to do a basic parameters and accountability, prevent a windfall
S2: of garbage, right?
S9: Yeah, well, I think, you know, I'll tell you, one
S9: of the problems I see in the church is we've
S9: got this almost a joke that we hire quickly and
S9: fire slowly in a church. So we think, well, brother Bob,
S9: he's he volunteered. He's a good guy. Let's hire him.
S9: Put him on staff. We don't vet him very well.
S9: We don't take the time to really explore Bob's past.
S9: And then when we get Bob on staff, it takes
S9: us forever. And we find out he's not a good
S9: fit and he doesn't work. Takes us forever to cut
S9: him loose. So I don't think we should cut people
S9: to the curb, but let's help them find their purpose
S9: and destiny somewhere else. If they're causing problems in the
S9: church or ministry that we have now. So I do
S9: think vetting employees is so critical. We need to hire
S9: based on character more than ability. I'm glad you're a
S9: great video guy. I'm glad you're a great youth leader.
S9: But what about your character? Let's look at that. So
S9: if we just took that time, it would be it
S9: would make such a dramatic difference.
S2: You're talking to a lot of leaders right now. How
S2: does someone vet someone in a world today where And
S2: oftentimes as a pastor, I've run through this where you
S2: get names and references and they how do you dig below?
S2: What is, at first blush, right in front of you?
S9: There are a number of ministry safe type organizations vetting
S9: dotcom and a bunch of other organizations that focus on
S9: helping find out. Does someone have a criminal record? Have
S9: they done anything sketchy in their past? But, you know,
S9: a simple following up on references, looking at their social media?
S9: Just some little things like that can make a dramatic
S9: difference right off the bat. I'm amazed at the number
S9: of churches that hire people and never make those calls
S9: for their to their references, never even call anybody. And so. Well,
S9: we just believe, you know, Sam is a good guy.
S9: He seems to be really nice. Let's get him on. Well,
S9: maybe Sam's done some stuff that we're going to. I've
S9: actually I'm working with a church right now that they're
S9: really struggling with that they hired somebody they shouldn't have hired,
S9: and it's really coming back to bite them in a
S9: big way.
S2: He's got a book out, guys. It's called Church on
S2: Trial How to protect your Congregation. mission. That means 501
S2: C3 is right with religious designation. Totally and reputation during
S2: a crisis. What's good about this book is it tells
S2: you how to keep your turkey out of that squisher
S2: to begin with.
S9: Amen. Yeah. You know what I tell people don't think about,
S9: you know, it's not if we'll have a crisis, it's
S9: when we'll have a crisis. And this social media age,
S9: there's so many ways for someone in your staff to
S9: say something inappropriate, do something inappropriate, somebody to say something
S9: they shouldn't, that we just always should be ready. You
S9: just never know. So I wrote the book to help pastors,
S9: ministry leaders, staff be ready in case something happens.
S2: Here's what I want you to do. Boom crew, I
S2: want you to think about pastors and staff, and I
S2: want you to think about a pastor appreciation gift that
S2: you're going to buy now, because it's not October. Isn't
S2: that the month that we're supposed to be appreciating pastors? No,
S2: I want you to get it now. And I want
S2: you to do this because Phil Cook, I got to
S2: tell you, I don't think it takes courage for us
S2: to bring you on here. I just think it takes wisdom.
S2: We got to talk about this stuff. So here's the deal.
S2: It's called Church on trial. How to protect your congregation,
S2: mission and reputation during a crisis. I'm asking you to consider.
S2: Would you grab a copy or two and give this
S2: to a couple of spiritual leaders or missional leaders? You
S2: know that you're like, you know what? I'm not here
S2: calling you into question. I'm here to say, might there
S2: be something in here that would prevent something that would
S2: cause a bigger question down the road?
S9: Well said, well said.
S2: All you got to do is text the word trial
S2: and we'll get a copy right at your disposal here.
S2: You're going to have a link set up. Ready to go.
S2: Text trial to 800 555 7898. Text trial to 800
S2: 555 7898. Phil, thank you for being with us.
S9: Thank you. I'm honored. This has been.