1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,240 S1: It's a letting go. Tuesday on Chris Fabry Live. Today 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,240 S1: we welcome back our correspondent to surrender. Author, speaker, Professor 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,080 S1: doctor Rosalee de Rose. She's one of our favorite people 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,720 S1: on the planet for a reason. And one of your 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,400 S1: favorite guests here on the program. And today we return 6 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,640 S1: to a topic that we have tackled in so many 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,080 S1: ways through the years, and there's a good reason we 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:31,800 S1: keep coming back to it. And that is it's really 9 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,919 S1: hard to do, but it's also really important to do. 10 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:38,640 S1: And in order to accomplish it, you have to be 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:40,840 S1: a student of your own life. You have to be 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:45,840 S1: present in order to realize what you need to let go. 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,919 S1: Let's get started with the Change Your Life Tuesday. Go 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,200 S1: to the website Chris. Org you'll see more about our 15 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,400 S1: guest here. Past programs see links and such. There's a 16 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:58,040 S1: way to support us right there, which I forgot to mention. 17 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,590 S1: The other day we had Bart and Shannon Millard on. 18 00:01:00,590 --> 00:01:02,750 S1: And I totally forgot to mention to you we need 19 00:01:02,750 --> 00:01:05,709 S1: your support. So I want to do that. I want 20 00:01:05,709 --> 00:01:07,990 S1: to let go of that early. The two Michaels are 21 00:01:07,990 --> 00:01:11,310 S1: back this Thursday, and one of the two Michaels, Doctor Rudnick, 22 00:01:11,310 --> 00:01:14,110 S1: wrote a little book that tackles how Christians should think 23 00:01:14,110 --> 00:01:16,709 S1: about Israel in such a time as this. I want 24 00:01:16,709 --> 00:01:18,670 S1: to send you a copy of it. Give a gift 25 00:01:18,670 --> 00:01:20,750 S1: of any size today. We will put it in the 26 00:01:20,750 --> 00:01:28,150 S1: mail 866953 or go to Chris. Favorite today is International 27 00:01:28,190 --> 00:01:31,589 S1: Holocaust Remembrance Day. And there's a reason for the rise 28 00:01:31,590 --> 00:01:36,430 S1: of anti-Semitism here and abroad. Michael goes into that. So 29 00:01:36,630 --> 00:01:39,190 S1: help us reach our goal here at the program by 30 00:01:39,190 --> 00:01:41,950 S1: the end of the of the week. This offer ends 31 00:01:41,950 --> 00:01:49,910 S1: on Saturday. Can you believe January is over on Saturday? (866) 953-2279. 32 00:01:49,910 --> 00:01:56,870 S1: Thank you for your generosity or just go to the website. Chris. Fabbri. Fabbri. Chris. Fabbri. 33 00:01:59,220 --> 00:02:01,500 S1: A big thank you to those partners and friends who 34 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:03,380 S1: keep us going here. And thanks to our team, Ryan 35 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:06,700 S1: Mcconahay doing all things technical. Trish is our producer. Lisa 36 00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:10,500 S1: is in the in the area at least helping out. 37 00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:13,860 S1: Josh will be answering your calls. Now here she is. 38 00:02:13,860 --> 00:02:17,419 S1: Doctor Rosalee de Rossi, adjunct professor of literature at Moody 39 00:02:17,419 --> 00:02:20,660 S1: Bible Institute, where she taught more than 50 years and 40 00:02:20,660 --> 00:02:24,780 S1: she still teach. This is her 56th year, so she's 41 00:02:24,780 --> 00:02:28,380 S1: she's not teaching full time anymore. She's the author of 42 00:02:28,540 --> 00:02:31,820 S1: Seduced and Unshaken, The Place of Dignity and a Woman's Choices, 43 00:02:31,820 --> 00:02:34,020 S1: and a forthcoming book that we're going to tell you 44 00:02:34,020 --> 00:02:37,180 S1: about really, really soon. Rosie, how you doing today? 45 00:02:37,220 --> 00:02:39,740 S2: I'm very well, Chris. Thank you. 46 00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:43,419 S1: Is the reason why that book is not in print yet. 47 00:02:43,460 --> 00:02:46,540 S1: Because you haven't let go of your perfectionism. 48 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:49,980 S2: No, I'm not a perfectionist in that. Well, I am, 49 00:02:50,020 --> 00:02:53,620 S2: but no, there's something missing inside of me. Chris, it's 50 00:02:53,620 --> 00:02:56,299 S2: called the motivation to sit down on a chair. And 51 00:02:56,340 --> 00:02:58,639 S2: I think I've told you I could finish it and 52 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,600 S2: it never happens, so I. I know. 53 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,600 S1: Keep working, Fred. It's going to make it. It's going 54 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:06,200 S1: to make a dent in the universe. I can tell 55 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,720 S1: you that, because I know the the the topic and 56 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,480 S1: it's something that's really close to your heart. But today, today, 57 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,160 S1: you suggested letting go. And as I said, we've we've 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,600 S1: talked about this before and we've done other programs on this. 59 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,760 S1: But there's a reason why we keep coming back, right? 60 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:24,200 S2: Yes. And I did look back through all my programs, 61 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,200 S2: and I'm not sure we ever called it quite that, 62 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,560 S2: but I it just springs to mind. And I think 63 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,919 S2: it's because it is such a daily thing. And as 64 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,960 S2: your life goes on, really the measure of your in 65 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,839 S2: a sense, your emotional, psychological and even spiritual health is 66 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:43,240 S2: the ability to let go without compromising what's important. It's 67 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,400 S2: it's just it's it's it's shedding. It's it's what Ruth 68 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,360 S2: Graham Bell used to call traveling light, which I love. 69 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,520 S2: I love that concept, traveling light. And I think back 70 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,110 S2: on an example of. In my earlier years, a friend 71 00:03:58,110 --> 00:03:59,910 S2: and I used to go dashing off to Europe with 72 00:03:59,910 --> 00:04:02,510 S2: just a backpack and very little. It was back in 73 00:04:02,510 --> 00:04:04,350 S2: the years when you didn't need as much makeup to 74 00:04:04,390 --> 00:04:08,030 S2: look human. And we just would go and one day 75 00:04:08,030 --> 00:04:09,670 S2: we were on a platform, I think it was in 76 00:04:09,670 --> 00:04:13,030 S2: an Italian train station, and a guy came up to 77 00:04:13,070 --> 00:04:15,869 S2: us and said, is that all the luggage you have? 78 00:04:16,270 --> 00:04:18,229 S2: And we said, yes. And he said, would you talk 79 00:04:18,230 --> 00:04:21,190 S2: to my family? And we looked back and there was 80 00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:26,110 S2: a full complement of Samsonite. And, and it was so 81 00:04:26,110 --> 00:04:29,230 S2: easy to travel because you just grabbed what you had 82 00:04:29,270 --> 00:04:32,510 S2: and you went. And it becomes kind of the driving 83 00:04:32,510 --> 00:04:35,390 S2: principle of how we live our lives. And I'm at 84 00:04:35,390 --> 00:04:38,909 S2: that stage of my life where, you know, I'm probably 85 00:04:38,910 --> 00:04:41,190 S2: at the end of my career and may have to 86 00:04:41,230 --> 00:04:44,589 S2: move and many things. And I've been through three major 87 00:04:44,589 --> 00:04:49,109 S2: moves as you have two, three major cleanups for people 88 00:04:49,110 --> 00:04:51,950 S2: I loved, which involved letting go of everything in their house, 89 00:04:51,950 --> 00:04:54,940 S2: which had much that was precious to me, and how 90 00:04:54,940 --> 00:04:57,780 S2: you have to do that, and how you cannot be 91 00:04:57,779 --> 00:05:01,700 S2: sentimental at those times. And yet you don't harden yourself 92 00:05:01,700 --> 00:05:04,779 S2: because they've meant something to you. And and I think 93 00:05:04,820 --> 00:05:08,340 S2: our tendency is either to go just throw it all 94 00:05:08,339 --> 00:05:12,659 S2: out or clutch it to too heavily to ourselves, become hoarders, 95 00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:16,140 S2: or to spare. And there is a tension between that, 96 00:05:16,140 --> 00:05:20,260 S2: because the things of this life are a delight, many 97 00:05:20,260 --> 00:05:23,180 S2: of them, and the relationships and the things that we've had, 98 00:05:23,420 --> 00:05:26,020 S2: they have we have loved them, and we can't harden 99 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:29,859 S2: our hearts to lose them. We must choose to open 100 00:05:29,860 --> 00:05:33,100 S2: our hand, and the only person that can help us 101 00:05:33,100 --> 00:05:35,340 S2: do that really successfully is Jesus. 102 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,780 S1: Which is kind of what we talked about yesterday with 103 00:05:38,779 --> 00:05:41,940 S1: Doctor Mitch, who's had this, you know, bad diagnosis. And 104 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:46,620 S1: he was going into radiation just yesterday after the program. Um, 105 00:05:46,820 --> 00:05:49,820 S1: but he was saying, I can't live in yesterday and 106 00:05:49,820 --> 00:05:53,130 S1: I can't live in tomorrow. I gotta live right here. 107 00:05:53,130 --> 00:05:56,250 S1: But so often I get I get nostalgic and I 108 00:05:56,250 --> 00:05:58,169 S1: look back to yesterday and how it was in the 109 00:05:58,170 --> 00:06:00,210 S1: good old days, or I look forward and say, oh no, 110 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,930 S1: are you worry? Or you know, you're happy about it, 111 00:06:03,290 --> 00:06:08,130 S1: you can't. And so it's this constant drum or this 112 00:06:08,130 --> 00:06:11,570 S1: constant pull, at least that I feel from God to 113 00:06:11,610 --> 00:06:14,770 S1: be right here rather than someplace else, right? 114 00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:19,850 S2: No, no, to be present to the moment, building on 115 00:06:19,850 --> 00:06:24,130 S2: everything that you were. Because memory is so important in Scripture. 116 00:06:24,330 --> 00:06:27,370 S2: It says, remember over 200 times in, I think, just 117 00:06:27,370 --> 00:06:31,370 S2: the Old Testament. And we're supposed to remember because memory 118 00:06:31,370 --> 00:06:35,210 S2: informs us and we are supposed to be grateful and cherish. 119 00:06:35,370 --> 00:06:38,690 S2: And yet at the same time, if it becomes a 120 00:06:38,810 --> 00:06:43,810 S2: toxic nostalgia, it cripples us so badly we can't literally move. 121 00:06:43,850 --> 00:06:47,409 S2: It's like, you know, trying to nail Jell-O to a tree. 122 00:06:47,850 --> 00:06:51,450 S2: And it it's it's a spiritual battle. It is really 123 00:06:51,450 --> 00:06:54,520 S2: a spiritual battle. I actually think at the heart of 124 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:58,720 S2: who we are with the Lord is is letting go 125 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:04,159 S2: without throwing away. Without going into denial, without giving up 126 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,919 S2: or being resigned in some kind of way. 127 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:10,880 S1: Doesn't this get. And as soon as you talk this way, 128 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,920 S1: I'm thinking about clutter in the in my office, you know, 129 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,000 S1: and in the house and how cleaning out helps you. 130 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:21,480 S1: But I'm also thinking about things such as forgiveness. Isn't 131 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,640 S1: forgiveness forgiving someone else, letting them go from the consequence 132 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,640 S1: of me holding on to this feeling that it's like 133 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,800 S1: what you did wasn't right. And I ain't going to 134 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:33,120 S1: let you go from that. 135 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,080 S2: No. That's right. In fact, one of my prayers this, 136 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,239 S2: this early this year was that as I faced perhaps 137 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,680 S2: the last semester of my teaching career, say, letting go 138 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,800 S2: of all resentments, anything negative I felt about this person 139 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,870 S2: or that, or how they were disappointed in me and 140 00:07:50,870 --> 00:07:54,110 S2: opening my heart to them and asking the Lord, even 141 00:07:54,110 --> 00:07:57,510 S2: for opportunities to practice that he's already given me to 142 00:07:58,350 --> 00:08:02,150 S2: where I sat down with somebody that I had had 143 00:08:02,150 --> 00:08:05,750 S2: hurt feelings about, or I wanted to not punish them, 144 00:08:05,750 --> 00:08:09,870 S2: but just keep myself away, you know? And it was 145 00:08:09,870 --> 00:08:12,790 S2: so good to just do it and let it go. 146 00:08:13,670 --> 00:08:16,510 S1: What did it feel like after you had that conversation 147 00:08:16,550 --> 00:08:18,310 S1: and how how was it responded to? 148 00:08:18,350 --> 00:08:21,910 S2: I felt I felt happy. You know, I felt happy. 149 00:08:21,950 --> 00:08:24,350 S2: Maybe that's a bad word. I just felt this tremendous 150 00:08:24,350 --> 00:08:27,670 S2: sense of contentment and like how little importance there was 151 00:08:28,110 --> 00:08:30,270 S2: to hanging on to those things, that it was an 152 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:33,430 S2: edge of my person that needed to really change. It's 153 00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:37,030 S2: so easy to be hurt or somebody hasn't been in 154 00:08:37,030 --> 00:08:40,790 S2: contact with you or they you've heard they said this 155 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:43,630 S2: and to absolutely let it go. And honestly, the response 156 00:08:43,630 --> 00:08:46,990 S2: from the person was so open hearted. We never talked 157 00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:48,750 S2: about it anything really. 158 00:08:48,790 --> 00:08:52,329 S1: And so in a sense, it surprised you how open 159 00:08:52,330 --> 00:08:52,890 S1: they were. 160 00:08:52,929 --> 00:08:53,329 S2: Yeah. 161 00:08:53,890 --> 00:08:57,330 S1: Because if you are, if, uh, if you hold on 162 00:08:57,370 --> 00:09:01,570 S1: to things, you're closed. You're closed, you're hard. Your heart 163 00:09:01,570 --> 00:09:04,490 S1: is impenetrable. You know that, that type of thing. But 164 00:09:04,490 --> 00:09:08,170 S1: when when you get to this place where you can 165 00:09:08,170 --> 00:09:11,410 S1: be open, then it gives others permission to do that, too. 166 00:09:11,530 --> 00:09:13,929 S2: I think they're surprised. They've probably seen something in you 167 00:09:13,929 --> 00:09:19,370 S2: that had reserve. I'm. I'm a genius at reserve sometimes. And, 168 00:09:19,410 --> 00:09:22,090 S2: you know, it's it's easy to be manipulative or to 169 00:09:22,330 --> 00:09:25,730 S2: to to where you're hurt in ways that you don't 170 00:09:25,730 --> 00:09:29,250 S2: realize it's doing that. But what's the point? Life is 171 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:30,090 S2: so short. 172 00:09:30,370 --> 00:09:32,770 S1: And to hang on to it. Hang to hang on 173 00:09:32,809 --> 00:09:35,089 S1: to the hurt that speaks to me. Okay, here's what 174 00:09:35,090 --> 00:09:36,610 S1: I want to do. I want to give you the 175 00:09:36,610 --> 00:09:39,370 S1: phone number of friends if you're listening today, because there's 176 00:09:39,370 --> 00:09:43,650 S1: somebody who's listening, who is walking through this and and 177 00:09:43,650 --> 00:09:45,570 S1: you want to turn the radio off because you don't 178 00:09:45,570 --> 00:09:48,040 S1: want to let go of whatever that thing is that 179 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,760 S1: you need. Maybe it is resentment. Maybe there is somebody 180 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,160 S1: you need forgive and you don't. You don't really want 181 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,800 S1: to do that. And part of that is we need 182 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,880 S1: to define what forgiveness really is. Or maybe there's something 183 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:06,120 S1: that you need to let go of or some expectation. 184 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,000 S1: Rosie's going to talk about all this in a whole 185 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:14,439 S1: lot more. But here's the number (877) 548-3675. I'll actually give 186 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,600 S1: you two things to call about. One is what do 187 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,000 S1: you need to let go of or what have you 188 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:22,920 S1: let go of? And what happened, you know, what was 189 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,920 S1: the the outcome of that. And the second is think 190 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,560 S1: about the people in Scripture who either let go or 191 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,240 S1: didn't let go. Give us an example because Rosie's got 192 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,680 S1: some examples. I have some examples from of people from 193 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,520 S1: Scripture that we can learn from their either mistake or 194 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,910 S1: what they did well in letting go. It's a let go. 195 00:10:46,950 --> 00:10:53,550 S1: Tuesday (877) 548-3675. You can answer the question on Facebook, but 196 00:10:53,550 --> 00:11:01,990 S1: I'd love to hear your voice. (877) 548-3675. Does this topic 197 00:11:01,990 --> 00:11:05,990 S1: of letting go strike a nerve in your heart? Let's 198 00:11:05,990 --> 00:11:19,270 S1: talk about it straight ahead on Moody Radio. This is 199 00:11:19,270 --> 00:11:21,750 S1: the sign of a good program, because I just told 200 00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:24,710 S1: Rosie two things that I need to let go of 201 00:11:24,750 --> 00:11:27,230 S1: in the break because of all this, that she. She 202 00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:29,390 S1: sent me an email and she had all this, these 203 00:11:29,390 --> 00:11:32,630 S1: notes that are just really, really good. And my guess 204 00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:35,590 S1: is there's somebody listening today and you need to let 205 00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:38,550 S1: go of something or there's something you've let go of, 206 00:11:38,550 --> 00:11:45,820 S1: and it has made a difference in your life. 36. 75. 207 00:11:46,020 --> 00:11:48,620 S1: I want to read what you wrote to me. The 208 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:51,140 S1: very first thing at the top of the page. Letting 209 00:11:51,140 --> 00:11:55,059 S1: go is both an art and a practice, one that 210 00:11:55,059 --> 00:11:59,500 S1: holds profound power to positively shape our lives. It's not 211 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:04,340 S1: about forcefully pushing things away. Instead, it describes our natural 212 00:12:04,340 --> 00:12:12,820 S1: impulse to soften, to relinquish control, contraction, yearning, and resistance. 213 00:12:12,980 --> 00:12:14,060 S1: Explain that to me. 214 00:12:14,500 --> 00:12:16,900 S2: Well, it's somebody else's quote, and I couldn't find the 215 00:12:16,900 --> 00:12:20,300 S2: person that said it. But if we think of letting go, 216 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:22,700 S2: I think a defensive reaction is when we just push 217 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,579 S2: them away. Okay, okay. I should get rid of this. 218 00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:28,620 S2: So just let me push it away. Throw it out. 219 00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:34,980 S2: Dump it something. But instead, letting go is softening. You 220 00:12:34,980 --> 00:12:39,340 S2: can feel it. The muscles go more lax. The hand opens, 221 00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:42,860 S2: the jaw relaxes. You don't have to be in control 222 00:12:42,860 --> 00:12:45,329 S2: of that. I think anybody who has probably worked in 223 00:12:45,330 --> 00:12:49,050 S2: leadership or in management, or even at the head of things, 224 00:12:49,050 --> 00:12:53,410 S2: has a very difficult time when that is threatened to change. Uh, 225 00:12:53,410 --> 00:12:57,890 S2: it's a control issue. Uh, contraction. The the making yourself 226 00:12:57,929 --> 00:13:02,290 S2: tight against it. Uh, yearning. Yearning is a very good thing. 227 00:13:02,290 --> 00:13:06,170 S2: But yearning, if you yearn and yearn and yearn you, 228 00:13:06,450 --> 00:13:09,450 S2: you make yourself sick. You have to. You have to 229 00:13:09,490 --> 00:13:11,850 S2: let go. Even of yearning to the Lord for something 230 00:13:11,850 --> 00:13:14,410 S2: that you had is no longer there. Uh, I mean, 231 00:13:14,410 --> 00:13:18,089 S2: you know, people whose, uh, whose wife or husband has 232 00:13:18,090 --> 00:13:21,850 S2: died or who have who they've lost a parent and 233 00:13:21,850 --> 00:13:25,330 S2: they just live in the shadow of that continually. The 234 00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:28,929 S2: pictures everywhere. There's no coming out of it. And they 235 00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:31,490 S2: never live life again. It's a kind of loss of 236 00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:34,290 S2: hope and then resistance. And of course, there is the 237 00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:37,370 S2: resistance to letting go. I will not hoarders. If you 238 00:13:37,370 --> 00:13:39,490 S2: study the psychology of hoarders, and I did a good 239 00:13:39,530 --> 00:13:44,000 S2: bit of reading about it, it's it's just absolute when 240 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,880 S2: you if you've even seen that show, which I have 241 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:50,920 S2: seen a couple of times, you see the unbelievable ugliness 242 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:53,319 S2: that comes out of those people. Even though their husband 243 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,520 S2: has had to move out, their children have moved out. 244 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,120 S2: There's animals in the house, they're there. It's filthy, it's 245 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,080 S2: not inhabitable. But boy, their jaw just closes down on it. 246 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,360 S2: And we metaphorically we can absolutely be that way. We 247 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,640 S2: can be that way about change. Change is not all good, 248 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,840 S2: but change also has a good side. There is good 249 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,520 S2: change and there is bad change. There are things that 250 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,520 S2: should stay the same and should pull through the ages, 251 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,680 S2: but the little changes around the edges. We have to 252 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,000 S2: absolutely be willing to accommodate them. 253 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,720 S1: I read a book recently and the man said that 254 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:32,320 S1: his father was exactly what you described, and he lived 255 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:36,880 S1: alone and fell. Something happened medical emergency. And he said 256 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:40,520 S1: when the EMTs got there, they were not able to 257 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:45,340 S1: get the gurney back to his room in order to. 258 00:14:45,380 --> 00:14:48,740 S1: They had to carry him from there out because they 259 00:14:48,740 --> 00:14:53,380 S1: couldn't get there because of all the stuff that's around. And, uh, 260 00:14:53,780 --> 00:14:56,020 S1: you have talked with us. Uh, one of the words 261 00:14:56,020 --> 00:14:58,500 S1: that comes to my mind when I think about Doctor 262 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:02,420 S1: Rosalia de Rossi is the word delight. And I think 263 00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:08,100 S1: it is antithetical. It's very difficult to delight when you 264 00:15:08,140 --> 00:15:10,460 S1: can't let go. Is that true? 265 00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:14,380 S2: Yes. That's so good. And that's the thing I felt 266 00:15:14,420 --> 00:15:17,460 S2: when I opened up my heart to people I'd had 267 00:15:17,460 --> 00:15:22,020 S2: small resentments toward. I felt a sense of of airiness 268 00:15:22,020 --> 00:15:24,540 S2: and delight. You know, one of the things I always 269 00:15:24,540 --> 00:15:26,620 S2: think of, I have this picture of my older brother 270 00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:29,780 S2: who died and his little girl, and he's clasping her 271 00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:31,780 S2: in his arms, and you can see both his face 272 00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:35,140 S2: and hers. There's absolute delight. They are loving each other 273 00:15:35,140 --> 00:15:37,380 S2: in absolute freedom. Or if you watch a child on 274 00:15:37,380 --> 00:15:40,330 S2: the beach when they're little, children have such a potential 275 00:15:40,330 --> 00:15:45,930 S2: for delight until it's squashed. They're just unencumbered. They don't. 276 00:15:45,970 --> 00:15:49,890 S2: They they just. They're not worried about anything. They. When 277 00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:52,050 S2: it's when things are, you know, the way they should be. 278 00:15:52,410 --> 00:15:57,850 S2: They just. They just delight. They just, you know, traipse 279 00:15:57,850 --> 00:16:01,970 S2: around everywhere. They caper. And that's that's what I think of. 280 00:16:02,170 --> 00:16:05,010 S2: Or the description of caper. Yeah. The description. 281 00:16:05,050 --> 00:16:06,530 S3: Like a horse. Like a horse. 282 00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:07,290 S1: Cantering. 283 00:16:07,330 --> 00:16:08,650 S3: Or cantering. Yeah. 284 00:16:09,170 --> 00:16:12,210 S2: I think of the, the illustration of Aslan who takes 285 00:16:12,250 --> 00:16:17,730 S2: Lucy and, uh, Susan on his back after he has 286 00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:23,330 S2: been resurrected and they just fly through the air, you know, 287 00:16:23,370 --> 00:16:27,170 S2: and it's just utter in a way, it's utter sensuousness 288 00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:29,369 S2: in the best sense of the word. All your senses 289 00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:33,330 S2: are alive to everything in life because you are so 290 00:16:33,370 --> 00:16:35,570 S2: unutterably present to the moment. 291 00:16:36,170 --> 00:16:39,840 S1: As a professor then, and 56 years. Can you believe. 292 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,440 S3: 57, 57. 293 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:41,800 S1: Seven. 294 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:42,080 S3: Years. 295 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,720 S1: As a professor? What have you had to let go of? 296 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:45,000 S3: Oh. 297 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,800 S2: You know, I've thought people have asked me this. How 298 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,920 S2: have you taught from 1971 till, you know, I've been 299 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:57,200 S2: here since 69, but 1971 till 2026. How, how why 300 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,080 S2: are students? Do they still respond to you? Because you know, 301 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:03,880 S2: the difference now is 57 years for the most part. 302 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,359 S2: And I, I don't know that I realized it. I 303 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,359 S2: this my father was very good at this and I 304 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,880 S2: think I got that from him. But I think that 305 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,600 S2: as I am a person of enormous conviction, I have 306 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,879 S2: really there are some things that I'm unmovable in the 307 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:23,760 S2: classroom about, but there's so much that if I'm going 308 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,960 S2: to reach them, are they more important than my all 309 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,760 S2: my little affectations and eccentricities, which is what they are? 310 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,600 S2: Am I going to keep insisting on they have to 311 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,710 S2: do it this way or they have to do this 312 00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:41,110 S2: many assignments, or am I going to start to measure 313 00:17:41,109 --> 00:17:44,510 S2: it by what they can handle and take in while 314 00:17:44,510 --> 00:17:48,270 S2: still being pushed? And so through the years, I've I've 315 00:17:48,270 --> 00:17:51,310 S2: had to begin to study their kind of music. If 316 00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:54,270 S2: they give me something and bring it to me and 317 00:17:54,270 --> 00:17:57,030 S2: try to acknowledge what's the best of it. I've had 318 00:17:57,030 --> 00:18:01,229 S2: to lessen the assignments I probably teach. When I was 319 00:18:01,230 --> 00:18:03,629 S2: teaching English, I was teaching a third less than I 320 00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:06,790 S2: had taught 20 years before, because it was better that 321 00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:10,550 S2: they learn some of it than have to go just 322 00:18:10,590 --> 00:18:15,110 S2: plunging through. I lecture far less. I can be interrupted. 323 00:18:15,109 --> 00:18:17,869 S2: We can have discussions. The question this I had the 324 00:18:17,869 --> 00:18:21,590 S2: most magical semester, first semester, and it's happening again where 325 00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:24,350 S2: people just ask questions, they put their hands in the air. 326 00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:27,109 S2: And I think to myself, the most important thing is 327 00:18:27,109 --> 00:18:29,669 S2: not getting through the amount of material I've got. The 328 00:18:29,670 --> 00:18:33,230 S2: most important thing is dealing with the principles that they 329 00:18:33,270 --> 00:18:37,859 S2: want to know more about. So it's. I could never 330 00:18:37,859 --> 00:18:40,700 S2: have done it otherwise. I've I've had to change my 331 00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:44,260 S2: consciousness and say this is a I mean, think about it. 332 00:18:44,260 --> 00:18:51,060 S2: 1969 to to 19 to 2026. I mean it's stunning 333 00:18:51,580 --> 00:18:54,100 S2: the changes. I'm the generation that's seen the most. I mean, 334 00:18:54,140 --> 00:18:57,820 S2: I have had to adapt technologically. Just I could never 335 00:18:57,859 --> 00:19:00,660 S2: be teaching at Moody if I hadn't had to learn 336 00:19:00,660 --> 00:19:03,740 S2: all the things I've had to learn and teach online. 337 00:19:03,780 --> 00:19:06,660 S2: I mean, not teach grade online now, right. And learn 338 00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:07,820 S2: to do that. Well. 339 00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:08,980 S3: Yeah. 340 00:19:09,380 --> 00:19:14,139 S1: And and be approachable at the same time and be approachable. Yeah. Uh. 341 00:19:14,140 --> 00:19:17,619 S1: All right, doctor Rosie. Rosie is with us. Letting go 342 00:19:17,660 --> 00:19:20,300 S1: is our topic. Rick's in Florida. Rick, why did you 343 00:19:20,340 --> 00:19:20,979 S1: call today? 344 00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:26,580 S4: Uh, when we are talking about letting go, it hit 345 00:19:26,619 --> 00:19:30,180 S4: me because, um, I've been going through a really bad 346 00:19:30,180 --> 00:19:36,090 S4: six year divorce, and, uh, in the process still and 347 00:19:36,130 --> 00:19:40,570 S4: having somebody constantly trying to attack you. Uh, I got 348 00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:42,490 S4: I started to get really bitter, and I got really 349 00:19:42,490 --> 00:19:48,290 S4: mad at God. And, um, about a month ago, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, 350 00:19:48,530 --> 00:19:51,530 S4: I was just very, very angry about the whole situation 351 00:19:51,530 --> 00:19:54,889 S4: and very bitter. And, uh, I was praying about it. 352 00:19:54,890 --> 00:19:57,810 S4: I was trying to stay faithful to God. And Sunday 353 00:19:57,810 --> 00:20:01,889 S4: night after church, I, uh, I was riding my motorcycle, 354 00:20:01,890 --> 00:20:05,129 S4: and I was putting it away at the storage facility. 355 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:07,330 S4: And in front of the storage facility is a shell 356 00:20:07,369 --> 00:20:11,450 S4: gas station. And there was a motorcyclist broken down. So 357 00:20:11,450 --> 00:20:13,450 S4: I grabbed my my car and I went over and 358 00:20:13,450 --> 00:20:15,650 S4: talked to him and tried to help him out. And 359 00:20:15,650 --> 00:20:18,610 S4: so I couldn't fix it because it had deep problems. 360 00:20:18,609 --> 00:20:21,770 S4: So we couldn't get a rental, uh, store, uh, a 361 00:20:21,890 --> 00:20:23,609 S4: tow truck. So what we do is we put it 362 00:20:23,609 --> 00:20:26,130 S4: into when my bike was, and then I gave him 363 00:20:26,130 --> 00:20:28,570 S4: a ride to help him to get an SUV from 364 00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:31,169 S4: a friend. Well, I started sharing my faith with him 365 00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:33,669 S4: and talking with him, and he said, you wouldn't believe 366 00:20:33,670 --> 00:20:36,830 S4: my story. His name's George. He was actually on channel 367 00:20:36,830 --> 00:20:41,149 S4: 13 News in Tampa. Um, and basically what happened was 368 00:20:41,270 --> 00:20:44,590 S4: he had gone through a 13 year, really bitter divorce, 369 00:20:44,590 --> 00:20:49,390 S4: and he was so bitter and hating everybody and really bitter. And, um, 370 00:20:49,430 --> 00:20:53,790 S4: he came down and contracted stage four cancer, and he 371 00:20:53,790 --> 00:20:56,270 S4: was whittled down to about £100. He showed me a 372 00:20:56,270 --> 00:20:59,910 S4: picture and I just couldn't even believe it was him. And, uh, 373 00:20:59,910 --> 00:21:02,109 S4: and in the end, he was angry at God and 374 00:21:02,109 --> 00:21:05,070 S4: he shouted out to God. And he said, why, why, why? 375 00:21:05,109 --> 00:21:08,030 S4: And he says, you know, why should I forgive you 376 00:21:08,030 --> 00:21:11,429 S4: when you don't forgive anybody else? So he made a 377 00:21:11,430 --> 00:21:16,310 S4: decision to go back to church. He became a Christian, 378 00:21:16,310 --> 00:21:21,869 S4: got baptized, and, um, basically made a decision from his 379 00:21:21,869 --> 00:21:25,590 S4: heart of hearts and from his soul to just forgive everybody. 380 00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:26,030 S3: Wow. 381 00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:29,990 S4: Everybody. And so he's telling me this story, and and 382 00:21:29,990 --> 00:21:33,100 S4: I'm thinking, you know, man, this is God speaking to me. 383 00:21:33,140 --> 00:21:33,620 S5: Yeah. 384 00:21:33,740 --> 00:21:37,180 S4: And so what happened was he ended up. The cancer 385 00:21:37,180 --> 00:21:42,940 S4: is gone. Totally 100% cured because he forgave everybody, I believe, 386 00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:44,020 S4: from his heart. And God. 387 00:21:44,260 --> 00:21:45,060 S5: I believe that, too. 388 00:21:45,859 --> 00:21:48,980 S1: I wonder how much of what you're saying, Rick, to 389 00:21:49,340 --> 00:21:53,660 S1: what happened with George. How and may not be cancer 390 00:21:53,700 --> 00:21:57,500 S1: or sickness that you have, but how unhealthy we are, 391 00:21:57,619 --> 00:22:01,260 S1: because we can't let go of some of those things 392 00:22:01,260 --> 00:22:04,860 S1: we're holding on to. And there goes that control again. Right, Rosie? 393 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:05,260 S5: Yeah. 394 00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:07,659 S2: Like the name of a book that says your body 395 00:22:07,660 --> 00:22:10,060 S2: tells the story. I believe that completely. 396 00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:11,460 S3: Keeps the score. Yeah. 397 00:22:11,540 --> 00:22:12,220 S2: Keeps the score. 398 00:22:12,260 --> 00:22:13,020 S3: That's it. Yeah. 399 00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:16,659 S1: Uh, Rick. God bless you, friend. Thank you. There's somebody 400 00:22:16,660 --> 00:22:20,619 S1: who needed to hear your story today. I really believe that. Especially, 401 00:22:20,859 --> 00:22:23,179 S1: you know, here you are on a Sunday evening and motorcycle, 402 00:22:23,180 --> 00:22:25,580 S1: and you're angry and you're bitter, and you, you come 403 00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:28,179 S1: up against this, but it's like, was that real or 404 00:22:28,180 --> 00:22:29,699 S1: was that an angel? You know, I've. 405 00:22:30,060 --> 00:22:30,220 S3: Heard. 406 00:22:30,290 --> 00:22:33,090 S1: People say that. It's like, yeah, I needed to hear that. 407 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:36,330 S1: And you shared that with us today. God bless you, friend. 408 00:22:36,330 --> 00:22:39,530 S1: And here's the other dirty little secret about that whole 409 00:22:39,530 --> 00:22:43,610 S1: thing of anger and bitterness. This is why you have 410 00:22:43,609 --> 00:22:49,530 S1: to keep it's a continual process, because tomorrow morning, Rick 411 00:22:49,530 --> 00:22:52,210 S1: may wake up and it'll come back to him. Or 412 00:22:52,210 --> 00:22:55,050 S1: he gets an email or the lawyer says, you know, something? 413 00:22:55,090 --> 00:22:58,290 S1: Something will happen to trigger that. And you got to 414 00:22:58,290 --> 00:23:00,850 S1: keep letting it go, right, Rosie? 415 00:23:01,090 --> 00:23:02,170 S5: Oh, absolutely. 416 00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:05,050 S2: It's a continual process. It doesn't end. 417 00:23:06,010 --> 00:23:08,850 S1: Lynn is in Missouri. Lynn, why did you call today? 418 00:23:09,810 --> 00:23:13,850 S6: Well, my husband and I, um, I have a stepdaughter, um, 419 00:23:13,850 --> 00:23:17,050 S6: through him, with him, and, um, she hasn't spoke to 420 00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:22,170 S6: us in 14 years. And recently, um, through a phone call, 421 00:23:22,170 --> 00:23:27,170 S6: she surfaced, and, um, um, during that conversation, I said, 422 00:23:27,570 --> 00:23:31,400 S6: if we if we get to see you, could you please. 423 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,040 S6: I would like to know what we did for 14 years. 424 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,679 S6: What we did wrong. We tried to contact you. We 425 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,680 S6: tried to mend whatever was going on. We tried. And 426 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,520 S6: so she said no. She said she was not willing 427 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,040 S6: to discuss it. If I have to, she had to 428 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,080 S6: discuss it. She wasn't going to speak to us again. So, um, 429 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,520 S6: I had read a a devotional where it said that 430 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,760 S6: when you have a relationship that's been severed, you need 431 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,719 S6: you need to start out with honesty and trust. And 432 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,680 S6: that's what I would like. I'd like to be able 433 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,960 S6: to not make whatever we did, not to make the 434 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,840 S6: same mistakes again. Whatever she did, we just need not 435 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,640 S6: we need to agree to not make the same mistakes again. 436 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,480 S6: But she's not willing to talk and therefore is not 437 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,439 S6: refuse to talk to us. So I don't know how 438 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,680 S6: to handle that, but it bothers me because I want 439 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,320 S6: I want to please the Lord. I want to be 440 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,189 S6: an obedient, um, child of his, and I want to 441 00:24:28,190 --> 00:24:31,790 S6: do what's right, but it can't. It can't start out. 442 00:24:32,190 --> 00:24:34,630 S6: I feel like that. But maybe I'm wrong. Please tell me. 443 00:24:35,470 --> 00:24:35,630 S3: You. 444 00:24:35,630 --> 00:24:38,550 S2: Know this. Interestingly enough, I have a friend who's who 445 00:24:38,550 --> 00:24:43,630 S2: was quite removed from her children for many years and 446 00:24:43,670 --> 00:24:46,430 S2: no idea why. She and her husband both. And there 447 00:24:46,430 --> 00:24:49,869 S2: was an incident of health in the family. And the 448 00:24:49,869 --> 00:24:54,109 S2: children have come back. What she they decided to do 449 00:24:54,150 --> 00:24:58,669 S2: was not to talk about the past, to take whatever 450 00:24:58,830 --> 00:25:03,590 S2: the child could do, to accept them completely, without any 451 00:25:03,590 --> 00:25:07,550 S2: need for explanation or going over the past and take 452 00:25:07,550 --> 00:25:10,230 S2: it at face value from where it is. That's hard 453 00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:13,910 S2: because you're living for the present moment and for only 454 00:25:13,910 --> 00:25:17,630 S2: what's going on in front of you. So maybe for her, 455 00:25:17,670 --> 00:25:19,350 S2: I mean, I don't have any answer to this. I 456 00:25:19,350 --> 00:25:21,910 S2: don't have children. I have a lot of respect for 457 00:25:21,950 --> 00:25:24,390 S2: for how how hard this is. And I hear these 458 00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:28,940 S2: stories a lot, but maybe it's better not to have 459 00:25:28,940 --> 00:25:33,460 S2: expectation of of the child and see where that goes. 460 00:25:34,220 --> 00:25:37,660 S1: I had the same feeling. Lynn. And hang on, don't 461 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:41,340 S1: hang up. Had the same feeling. Because what's the goal? 462 00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:43,860 S1: The goal here is to have a relationship. And if 463 00:25:43,859 --> 00:25:48,619 S1: she says, I can't go here, the whole thing about, well, 464 00:25:48,660 --> 00:25:50,660 S1: if I don't want to make the same mistake, that's 465 00:25:50,660 --> 00:25:52,980 S1: the fear. I don't want to make that same mistake. 466 00:25:53,420 --> 00:25:56,939 S1: How about just move toward love? We'll talk about it 467 00:25:56,940 --> 00:26:07,500 S1: more straight ahead. We were talking with Lynn in the 468 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,820 S1: break about letting go and her stepdaughter and being away 469 00:26:10,820 --> 00:26:15,980 S1: all those years and having children and not, you know, why, why? 470 00:26:15,980 --> 00:26:20,980 S1: Why did this happen? What's what? What's going on here? And, uh, 471 00:26:20,980 --> 00:26:24,700 S1: I thought about the we could go to the biblical examples. 472 00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:27,880 S1: We're getting some on online people who, you know in 473 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,840 S1: the Bible wouldn't let go or did let go. And 474 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,520 S1: the one that I thought most of was Joseph. Here 475 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,240 S1: he is, his brothers. Toss him in the whole, you know, 476 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,120 S1: tell his dad he's dead. Sell him, you know, sell 477 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,840 S1: him into slavery. Anybody on the planet who would have 478 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,000 S1: reason to hold something against his family members, you know, 479 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,160 S1: good example. Or to say to the family, why did 480 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:56,399 S1: you do that? I'm not. You're going to have to 481 00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:59,360 S1: say you're sorry. You know, write it on on the 482 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:04,240 S1: the in Egyptian script 500 times before I'll ever think 483 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,639 S1: about forgiving. You know, it was. No, he he didn't 484 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,680 S1: do that. What he did was you meant it for evil. 485 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,479 S1: God meant it for good. Because look at what has happened. 486 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,000 S1: Because I was, you know, this terrible thing happened to me. 487 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,560 S1: And then prison, too, you know? But it wasn't the 488 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,150 S1: bitterness that came out there. It was the care and 489 00:27:26,150 --> 00:27:28,869 S1: concern and the love that he had for his other 490 00:27:28,869 --> 00:27:32,230 S1: family members. And they treated him terribly, didn't they? 491 00:27:32,270 --> 00:27:35,950 S2: Oh, terribly. And he had the softness to even when 492 00:27:35,950 --> 00:27:38,710 S2: he was I mean, he he not played a game, 493 00:27:38,710 --> 00:27:41,590 S2: but he set them up a little because he had to. 494 00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:44,830 S2: But he had he had the softness of heart to 495 00:27:44,869 --> 00:27:48,990 S2: weep in their presence. I mean, he wept when he 496 00:27:48,990 --> 00:27:51,869 S2: saw that they were his family. He kept such a beautiful, 497 00:27:51,910 --> 00:27:53,070 S2: beautiful heart. 498 00:27:54,750 --> 00:27:59,389 S1: And you don't you don't do that. Um, on the spot. 499 00:27:59,430 --> 00:28:02,990 S1: There was work that he did in prison. There was 500 00:28:02,990 --> 00:28:06,710 S1: work that he did ahead of time, I'm convinced. 501 00:28:06,750 --> 00:28:07,350 S3: Oh, I am too. 502 00:28:07,390 --> 00:28:10,190 S1: To soften his heart. And so we were talking with 503 00:28:10,230 --> 00:28:12,430 S1: Lynn in the break and giving her all these, you know, really, 504 00:28:12,430 --> 00:28:14,550 S1: really good things that you need to do this, need 505 00:28:14,550 --> 00:28:16,429 S1: to do that. And then I told her, I said, Lynn, 506 00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:18,590 S1: there's not one of us here talking to you. Who's 507 00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:21,310 S1: saying this is easy? It's not. It's it's that's why 508 00:28:21,310 --> 00:28:24,340 S1: she called. because she was struggling with that. And I 509 00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:26,820 S1: think there's part of her that knew I need I 510 00:28:26,820 --> 00:28:29,659 S1: need to let this go. But I really want to know. 511 00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:30,540 S3: I want clarity. 512 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:31,260 S2: Before I move. 513 00:28:31,260 --> 00:28:31,820 S3: Ahead. 514 00:28:31,859 --> 00:28:32,180 S2: You know? 515 00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:33,020 S3: Yeah. Yeah. 516 00:28:33,460 --> 00:28:37,340 S1: Uh, Rory is in Montana. Rory, why did you call today? 517 00:28:38,980 --> 00:28:42,220 S7: Hi. Um, I called because I'm in a situation in 518 00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:43,940 S7: my life. Just. I've just arrived at a point in 519 00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:50,620 S7: life where everything, all everything is in transition. My whole life. And, uh, 520 00:28:50,980 --> 00:28:52,860 S7: you know, I wasn't sure what to do next, or 521 00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:54,420 S7: you know, what to do, you know, or where to 522 00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:57,380 S7: kind of direct my life and, uh, ended up taking 523 00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:00,860 S7: a job with my an old ministry job that I'd 524 00:29:00,860 --> 00:29:03,620 S7: had before, and I was. I have three sons and 525 00:29:03,620 --> 00:29:05,620 S7: two amazing daughter in laws, and one daughter in law 526 00:29:05,620 --> 00:29:09,100 S7: was talking to me one day, very direct. And she's like, 527 00:29:09,100 --> 00:29:11,020 S7: I think you just took that because it's familiar and 528 00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:14,300 S7: you're comfortable. And it just kind of startled me. But I, 529 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:17,380 S7: you know, it was like I appreciated it. And so 530 00:29:17,620 --> 00:29:19,620 S7: they're asking me to kind of move where they've all 531 00:29:19,620 --> 00:29:24,610 S7: moved to, you know, uh, in the southwest. And, uh, 532 00:29:24,610 --> 00:29:26,490 S7: I feel like I'm hanging on up here because, like, 533 00:29:26,490 --> 00:29:29,250 S7: my whole history is in Montana. Born and raised on 534 00:29:29,250 --> 00:29:32,130 S7: a farm and ranch, small town. I feel like I 535 00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:35,650 S7: have a lot of pride in being from Montana. I 536 00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:37,969 S7: think all of that is just making it difficult for 537 00:29:37,970 --> 00:29:40,370 S7: me to be like, oh, well, maybe I should make 538 00:29:40,370 --> 00:29:43,930 S7: this move, you know, like, what am I hanging on to? So, yeah. 539 00:29:44,130 --> 00:29:46,530 S1: Do you wear the boots and the hat. 540 00:29:47,770 --> 00:29:48,330 S3: Rory? 541 00:29:48,530 --> 00:29:51,410 S7: Um, not so much anymore. Now that I was, uh, 542 00:29:51,410 --> 00:29:54,090 S7: in the ministry, um, you know, I worked for Fellowship 543 00:29:54,090 --> 00:29:56,530 S7: of Christian Athletes for a long time and was going 544 00:29:56,530 --> 00:29:58,530 S7: back to that. Um, well, if. 545 00:29:58,530 --> 00:30:00,330 S1: You want to. I'm just saying, if you want to, 546 00:30:00,370 --> 00:30:02,850 S1: you can move to Arizona because everybody here wears boots 547 00:30:02,850 --> 00:30:04,770 S1: and a hat. Not everybody. But, you know, there's a 548 00:30:04,810 --> 00:30:05,410 S1: lot of people. 549 00:30:06,210 --> 00:30:08,010 S7: That's where my kids are. Yeah. 550 00:30:08,050 --> 00:30:11,170 S1: Is it really? Okay, well, there's room. There's a lot 551 00:30:11,170 --> 00:30:13,410 S1: of room down here in the desert. Uh, but I, 552 00:30:13,650 --> 00:30:17,170 S1: I get exactly what you're saying, and and for and 553 00:30:17,170 --> 00:30:19,690 S1: for you to have a a daughter in law who's 554 00:30:19,690 --> 00:30:21,840 S1: is willing to go out on a limb and to 555 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,360 S1: kind of push you a little bit. I like that, 556 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,920 S1: I like that spunk. You know, whether she's right or not, 557 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:28,720 S1: I don't know. Rosie, what do you think? 558 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,680 S2: I don't know if she's right or not, but my 559 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,800 S2: instinct is that, you know, you're a father and a 560 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,320 S2: grandfather as well as a person in ministry. I mean, 561 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,719 S2: I have no idea how old you are or what 562 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:45,600 S2: stage you're at. And, um, very few people are older. 54. Oh, well, 563 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,040 S2: you're you're I 54 changes my answer a little bit 564 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,960 S2: because that's still you still have to work. You know, 565 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,520 S2: you still have to work. Uh, and I think the 566 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:58,640 S2: considerations would be, I think it's good that she asked 567 00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,000 S2: you that question. And in answering it, if you come 568 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,720 S2: to a confirmation that, no, you did not take this 569 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,880 S2: ministry job just because it was familiar. Uh, it's something 570 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,760 S2: you like. And there's nothing wrong with liking Montana. I 571 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,280 S2: hope to go to Glacier National Park this summer on 572 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,560 S2: a train. Uh, and it. I think. But in the 573 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,870 S2: other side of it is if you can get a job, 574 00:31:19,870 --> 00:31:22,710 S2: that is, you give up some of those things in 575 00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:26,390 S2: order to work, but still be a grandfather and a father. 576 00:31:26,430 --> 00:31:30,310 S2: Those are wonderful, wonderful callings and children never forget it. 577 00:31:30,550 --> 00:31:33,430 S2: So I think that's what you have to weigh. Just 578 00:31:33,430 --> 00:31:38,270 S2: because somebody tells us something doesn't mean it's true, but 579 00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:41,470 S2: it sometimes jogs us to come to confirmation of what 580 00:31:41,470 --> 00:31:42,390 S2: we have done. 581 00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:45,390 S7: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 582 00:31:45,430 --> 00:31:49,710 S1: I think, Rory, I think there's very few people will 583 00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:53,870 S1: actually call a radio program, you know, uh, from Montana 584 00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:57,510 S1: to Chicago, and I'm in Arizona and Rosie's in Chicago. 585 00:31:57,550 --> 00:31:59,950 S1: Very few people will actually pick up the phone. There's 586 00:31:59,950 --> 00:32:03,470 S1: a reason why you wanted to get our input in this. 587 00:32:03,630 --> 00:32:07,190 S1: And I don't think our input is is really, you know, 588 00:32:07,230 --> 00:32:10,710 S1: the be all and end all. The the the nerve 589 00:32:10,710 --> 00:32:13,709 S1: that was touched inside of you when you said, I 590 00:32:13,710 --> 00:32:17,090 S1: wonder if I'm hanging on to something here. Her. I 591 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:19,570 S1: think that's the gold in your car. I think you're 592 00:32:19,570 --> 00:32:22,729 S1: answering your own question in some ways. What do you 593 00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:23,530 S1: think about that? 594 00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:29,250 S7: Yeah, I think I yeah, this is just kind of 595 00:32:29,290 --> 00:32:32,250 S7: a new realization I'm coming to. You know, it's like, uh, 596 00:32:32,890 --> 00:32:35,650 S7: like I it's just total by accident, changing the schedule. 597 00:32:35,730 --> 00:32:37,850 S7: God doesn't do accidents. You know that. I tuned in today. 598 00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:39,130 S7: I just had an opening. I was like, I wonder 599 00:32:39,130 --> 00:32:41,690 S7: what Chris is talking about today. So I tuned in 600 00:32:41,690 --> 00:32:43,610 S7: and I was like, oh, geez. And I have meetings 601 00:32:43,610 --> 00:32:45,930 S7: set up with, you know, some brothers in my life 602 00:32:45,930 --> 00:32:49,410 S7: tomorrow and tonight to kind of have this conversation with them. 603 00:32:49,450 --> 00:32:49,970 S3: Wow. 604 00:32:50,290 --> 00:32:54,250 S7: Tuned in. You guys today just like, okay, what's going 605 00:32:54,250 --> 00:32:56,130 S7: on here? What's God trying to tell me, you know. 606 00:32:56,170 --> 00:32:57,130 S3: Yes, yes. 607 00:32:57,290 --> 00:33:00,210 S1: And then what does it look like? Because letting go 608 00:33:00,210 --> 00:33:03,690 S1: is not necessarily okay. Sell this and move halfway across 609 00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:07,210 S1: the country. That's not the the gold I think. Rosy, 610 00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:09,490 S1: check me if you think I'm wrong. The gold here 611 00:33:09,490 --> 00:33:12,970 S1: is is not the place. It's not the spot. It's 612 00:33:13,010 --> 00:33:17,080 S1: the openness and the softness of heart and the and 613 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,480 S1: the allowance of the openness to allow God into this 614 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,240 S1: place where I'm asking all these questions and then being 615 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,520 S1: willing not to say, I've got to figure this out 616 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:31,840 S1: in a timeline, but to say I'm open and if 617 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,760 S1: you want to move me, and that maybe that's what 618 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,440 S1: the program is doing for Rory is moving him a 619 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,520 S1: little closer to that. Um, that that's a really good thing. 620 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,600 S1: A good step to be open, isn't it? 621 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,040 S2: Something is definitely going on, even if that's only to 622 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,840 S2: have confirmation of where you are or the prod to 623 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,000 S2: in a period of time. Not tomorrow to begin some 624 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,440 S2: kind of of move. 625 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:55,320 S3: Yeah. 626 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,840 S7: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. It'll be interesting to see what God's doing. 627 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:01,320 S3: Yes. 628 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:02,920 S1: Well call us back Rory. 629 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,000 S3: And don't wait till. 630 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,560 S1: Rosie comes on. Call me back. I want to find 631 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,239 S1: I want to find out if you moved to Arizona. I'll, uh, 632 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:11,760 S1: I'll meet you in the middle. Okay. 633 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,279 S7: All right. Thank you. 634 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,590 S1: Appreciate it. God bless you, friend. Um, so that just 635 00:34:16,590 --> 00:34:20,470 S1: points out and and with Lynn's Coal, that points out 636 00:34:20,469 --> 00:34:23,029 S1: how personal this topic. 637 00:34:23,070 --> 00:34:25,750 S3: Is and how deep it is. Rosie. 638 00:34:25,790 --> 00:34:28,230 S2: Yeah, it's very deep. Yeah. 639 00:34:28,670 --> 00:34:31,870 S1: You have a note here? Dementia. 640 00:34:32,350 --> 00:34:32,630 S3: Yeah. 641 00:34:32,670 --> 00:34:34,790 S1: Letting go in order to love. What does that. 642 00:34:34,790 --> 00:34:35,070 S3: Mean? 643 00:34:35,110 --> 00:34:37,069 S2: I think about all the people that I know that 644 00:34:37,070 --> 00:34:41,190 S2: are struggling with, uh, relatives. Or have I just had 645 00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:44,629 S2: a friend who lost her husband to a long, progressive dementia? 646 00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:50,710 S2: And if you read enough about the condition, you know that, uh, people, uh, 647 00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:55,390 S2: those who become caretakers are just called upon to almost 648 00:34:55,390 --> 00:35:00,350 S2: a heroic, um, change in their spirit and that they 649 00:35:00,350 --> 00:35:03,310 S2: must learn to love in completely different ways, and they 650 00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:05,190 S2: have to let go of a great deal in order 651 00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:08,350 S2: to do that. And, um, I have a book that 652 00:35:08,350 --> 00:35:11,950 S2: talks a lot about, uh, the, the way people become 653 00:35:11,950 --> 00:35:14,980 S2: when they have dementia. There's a saintliness that comes over 654 00:35:14,980 --> 00:35:18,060 S2: them in the sense that they are. They have they 655 00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:22,020 S2: have let go almost of everything. They they have changed. 656 00:35:22,020 --> 00:35:24,660 S2: And one of the beautiful things about many are that 657 00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:26,819 S2: they love nature. And they look at the sky and 658 00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:30,020 S2: they look at the outdoors and they love it. And 659 00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:33,299 S2: they and and my friend's husband was like that. He 660 00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:36,299 S2: would find things in the sky. He would have images 661 00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:39,580 S2: that he would see and how how much it informs 662 00:35:39,580 --> 00:35:41,580 S2: us that we don't need to see. We need to 663 00:35:41,580 --> 00:35:44,299 S2: see that maybe, as there is a kind of thing, 664 00:35:44,340 --> 00:35:48,140 S2: to instruct those who who go through that, but anybody 665 00:35:48,140 --> 00:35:52,340 S2: who has a disease like dementia or even a cancer 666 00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:55,219 S2: that might take them, they must let go of a 667 00:35:55,219 --> 00:35:58,980 S2: great deal in order to love instead of hanging on 668 00:35:59,020 --> 00:36:00,060 S2: to what was. 669 00:36:00,340 --> 00:36:00,780 S3: Yeah. 670 00:36:01,260 --> 00:36:07,260 S1: I had a friend whose mom had a glioblastoma. And, 671 00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:10,420 S1: you know, that's that's pretty much a death sentence. And 672 00:36:10,420 --> 00:36:14,290 S1: toward the end of her life at a really high 673 00:36:14,290 --> 00:36:18,330 S1: point in her daughter's life. Toward the end of her life, 674 00:36:18,330 --> 00:36:21,489 S1: she started getting really angry and upset and said these 675 00:36:21,489 --> 00:36:24,490 S1: awful things and terrible things. It's like, I don't understand 676 00:36:24,489 --> 00:36:26,770 S1: what's happening to my mom. And then she realized, you 677 00:36:26,770 --> 00:36:28,969 S1: could hear this all day long. You know, this is 678 00:36:28,969 --> 00:36:31,770 S1: not your mother that's speaking to you. It's the effects 679 00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:34,689 S1: of the the disease, the effects of the tumor that's 680 00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:36,850 S1: pressing on that part of the brain and all that. 681 00:36:36,890 --> 00:36:38,690 S1: It's like, yeah, but I can know that. But I 682 00:36:38,690 --> 00:36:41,490 S1: want my mom, you know, I want the one that 683 00:36:41,650 --> 00:36:43,689 S1: I crawled into her lap and she read me these 684 00:36:43,690 --> 00:36:46,850 S1: stories and and I don't have that anymore. And that's true. 685 00:36:46,890 --> 00:36:52,530 S1: You don't. But at the same time, letting go of that, 686 00:36:52,570 --> 00:36:56,410 S1: that's the process. And again, boy, that's not easy, is it? 687 00:36:56,450 --> 00:36:59,569 S2: No, no no, there's there's not at all. And one 688 00:36:59,570 --> 00:37:01,570 S2: of the great books and I want to recommend this. 689 00:37:01,610 --> 00:37:04,890 S2: You'd have to find it online probably is Helen Roseveare 690 00:37:05,130 --> 00:37:08,410 S2: living sacrifice will really anything she wrote. But he gave 691 00:37:08,410 --> 00:37:10,839 S2: me a valley. But she talks about leaving. She was 692 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,160 S2: a Cambridge doctor from England, educated, called to a. I 693 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,160 S2: think it was the Congo. I can't, I can't remember 694 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,720 S2: the particular country now. And, you know, the first season 695 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,080 S2: she was there, they told her the rainy season will 696 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:25,279 S2: be over on this day. You can count on it 697 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,879 S2: and then it'll. And you can take the roof off 698 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:29,480 S2: your house. And she even waited a while, took the 699 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,960 S2: roof off her house. And and paintings were destroyed. It 700 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,880 S2: rained like crazy rugs that she had brought from England. 701 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,640 S2: Anything to cushion the change to this mission that God 702 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,640 S2: had called her to. And you know, she just looks 703 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,080 S2: at the at the skies and she says, kind of 704 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,040 S2: like Fiddler on the roof guy. Would it spoil some 705 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,719 S2: eternal plan for you to have let me keep my 706 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,320 S2: painting and my rug? I mean, big deal. I'm serving 707 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,839 S2: you here in Africa. But that, of course, led to 708 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,520 S2: the the the letting go when she was raped. Um, 709 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,479 S2: so long by the by the rebels. And as a 710 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,200 S2: as a woman who had maintained her purity in front 711 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,280 S2: of God and she says, you take this to and 712 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,270 S2: every in in every case She asked, is it worth it? 713 00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:14,830 S2: Is he worthy? And that was her set of questions. 714 00:38:14,830 --> 00:38:16,990 S2: I still remember when she gave that message in chapel 715 00:38:16,989 --> 00:38:20,950 S2: in 19, I think 83. And her entire life was 716 00:38:20,950 --> 00:38:22,990 S2: a letting go. And she was a very strong personality. 717 00:38:22,989 --> 00:38:26,989 S2: And it's not this world is not our home. You know, 718 00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:30,230 S2: that terrible chorus from my childhood doesn't have a musical 719 00:38:30,230 --> 00:38:32,710 S2: note in it. But this world is not our home. 720 00:38:32,710 --> 00:38:35,270 S2: We're just a passing through. My treasures are laid up 721 00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:38,549 S2: somewhere beyond the blue. But it's true, you know that's 722 00:38:38,550 --> 00:38:41,150 S2: exactly right. We just make. We make ourselves so at 723 00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:42,110 S2: home in the world. 724 00:38:42,430 --> 00:38:42,950 S3: Yes. 725 00:38:43,510 --> 00:38:46,830 S1: And so letting go is this spiritual practice. It does 726 00:38:46,830 --> 00:38:49,590 S1: something on the inside. We're hearing that today from people 727 00:38:49,590 --> 00:38:51,509 S1: who are right in the in the middle of it, 728 00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:54,950 S1: right in the trenches. And we've got one final segment. 729 00:38:54,950 --> 00:38:58,190 S1: Doctor Rosalie de rosette is our guest today. Go to 730 00:38:58,190 --> 00:39:01,910 S1: the website. Chris Fabry lives. You'll see more about her 731 00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:17,609 S1: at Chris Fabry, more straight ahead. Boy, the older I get, 732 00:39:17,610 --> 00:39:19,530 S1: the more I go let go of and I don't 733 00:39:19,530 --> 00:39:22,530 S1: want to. I want to hang on to it. And 734 00:39:22,530 --> 00:39:25,290 S1: Doctor Rosalie Rose is with us today. I hope today's 735 00:39:25,450 --> 00:39:29,489 S1: program has been has done something on the inside to 736 00:39:29,530 --> 00:39:33,130 S1: you because our prayer before went on was do something 737 00:39:33,130 --> 00:39:37,370 S1: in us. And he has, uh, let's see what rolling around. 738 00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:41,410 S1: Tony sold today in Chicago. Chicago area. Tony. Go ahead. 739 00:39:42,170 --> 00:39:45,250 S8: Hi. How are you doing? Um, I'm calling from kind 740 00:39:45,250 --> 00:39:49,050 S8: of a different perspective. I'm not a parent that has 741 00:39:49,050 --> 00:39:52,850 S8: estranged kids. I'm more of like a kid that doesn't 742 00:39:52,850 --> 00:39:56,690 S8: really talk to my parents so much. And I think 743 00:39:56,690 --> 00:40:02,610 S8: the difficult thing is forgiving someone that isn't asking for forgiveness. 744 00:40:03,570 --> 00:40:06,049 S8: And I think that's. Yeah, that's where I struggle. I 745 00:40:06,050 --> 00:40:09,719 S8: know I need to forgive and like God's been whispering 746 00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:14,520 S8: that to me, but it doesn't seem like they're they 747 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:16,840 S8: believe they need to be forgiven of anything. 748 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:22,480 S2: You know, Tony, the hardest forgiveness we ever do is 749 00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,560 S2: when the person doesn't receive it, acknowledge it, or know 750 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,600 S2: they need it. And we don't do it in a 751 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,319 S2: way for them. We do it for ourselves. That's the 752 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,680 S2: letting go. Doesn't mean you have to forget. I don't 753 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,839 S2: think we do forget. I don't think we forget our injuries. 754 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,880 S2: I think they soften as we go along. But you're 755 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,920 S2: you're forgiving them because it sets you free. 756 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:47,760 S3: Yeah. 757 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,640 S2: And you may not see them much. It could be 758 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,719 S2: that it's better for you not to see them a lot. 759 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,839 S2: If they don't treat you well, if they remind you 760 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,959 S2: that you're the problem, it could be that you need 761 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,000 S2: to find other people who will parent you. In some ways. 762 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,240 S2: You know, a lot of people need surrogate parents or company, 763 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,510 S2: but you don't. You can't. If you if you hold 764 00:41:07,510 --> 00:41:12,030 S2: out to forgive somebody for them to acknowledge it. It's 765 00:41:12,070 --> 00:41:15,310 S2: it doesn't happen. And once again, I want to say 766 00:41:15,350 --> 00:41:17,670 S2: that doesn't mean you forget we have we have a 767 00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:20,189 S2: very jaundiced view of forgiveness. We either do it too 768 00:41:20,190 --> 00:41:23,310 S2: easily or we think it means full reconciliation, or we 769 00:41:23,310 --> 00:41:27,190 S2: think it means that we never have. We never remember 770 00:41:27,230 --> 00:41:30,590 S2: it anymore. No, it just means I let go. These 771 00:41:30,590 --> 00:41:33,430 S2: people have chosen not to love me the way they should. 772 00:41:33,469 --> 00:41:36,230 S2: It's in their laps and I am going to walk on. 773 00:41:37,350 --> 00:41:40,270 S8: Yeah. Um, yeah. Kind of speaking on that a little, 774 00:41:40,750 --> 00:41:43,230 S8: I think a lot of forgiveness. Too many people interpret 775 00:41:43,230 --> 00:41:46,069 S8: it as you just suppress it, put it away and just. 776 00:41:46,110 --> 00:41:46,750 S9: No, no, no, no. 777 00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:49,750 S8: Almost forgetting it. Which. Yeah, I can't do that. My 778 00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:51,190 S8: body won't let me do that anyway. 779 00:41:51,590 --> 00:41:53,390 S3: Good for you. Good for you, I think. 780 00:41:53,590 --> 00:41:53,950 S2: Go ahead. 781 00:41:54,110 --> 00:41:54,550 S3: Journaling. 782 00:41:54,590 --> 00:41:55,510 S1: Journaling is really. 783 00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:56,750 S3: Good. I was just going to say that's. 784 00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:58,630 S1: What the Psalms are all about, right? 785 00:41:59,030 --> 00:42:03,469 S8: Yeah, yeah. Well, I think one other thing that might 786 00:42:03,469 --> 00:42:06,779 S8: help some parents that are in a situation is part 787 00:42:06,780 --> 00:42:12,260 S8: of the reason why older children that become adults stop 788 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:16,900 S8: talking is because their feelings are hurt so deep to 789 00:42:16,940 --> 00:42:20,980 S8: the core, right? That bringing it up is just too difficult. 790 00:42:20,980 --> 00:42:24,020 S8: You're trying to convince somebody that a feeling exists that 791 00:42:24,020 --> 00:42:26,980 S8: they don't even believe exists, and then it just becomes 792 00:42:26,980 --> 00:42:28,899 S8: too difficult to bring it up. So you just pull back, 793 00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:32,819 S8: pull away. Almost kind of like the old phrase of 794 00:42:32,820 --> 00:42:35,060 S8: familiarity breeds contempt. 795 00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:35,540 S3: Yeah. 796 00:42:35,660 --> 00:42:36,140 S1: To protect. 797 00:42:36,140 --> 00:42:38,060 S8: Yourself, give space, protect. 798 00:42:38,060 --> 00:42:38,899 S1: Your own heart for. 799 00:42:38,900 --> 00:42:40,380 S3: Yourself. Yes, sure. 800 00:42:40,420 --> 00:42:44,740 S8: Give space for yourself. Maybe for them, but oftentimes it 801 00:42:44,980 --> 00:42:47,660 S8: it still doesn't get resolved. There's not that closure that 802 00:42:48,380 --> 00:42:49,219 S8: we are seeking. 803 00:42:49,860 --> 00:42:50,780 S2: Right. And that's. 804 00:42:50,780 --> 00:42:51,180 S3: Where. 805 00:42:51,380 --> 00:42:53,540 S2: We live with the injury and the tension of it. 806 00:42:53,540 --> 00:42:54,140 S2: Sorry Chris. 807 00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:54,580 S3: Go ahead. 808 00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:57,420 S1: Yeah. Well the expectation is I want this I want 809 00:42:57,420 --> 00:43:00,180 S1: this to turn out this way. I really resonate with 810 00:43:00,180 --> 00:43:02,219 S1: what you're saying, Tony, because I experience some of the 811 00:43:02,330 --> 00:43:05,569 S1: same thing with my parents, who grew up in the depression, 812 00:43:05,570 --> 00:43:08,290 S1: and I couldn't figure out why. Why are you acting like. 813 00:43:08,610 --> 00:43:10,810 S1: What do you do this? And in some ways, I 814 00:43:10,810 --> 00:43:14,370 S1: felt like both have passed away now. But I didn't 815 00:43:14,370 --> 00:43:17,370 S1: feel like you didn't know me. You didn't see me. 816 00:43:17,650 --> 00:43:19,529 S1: You didn't give me the wings that I needed. You 817 00:43:19,530 --> 00:43:22,089 S1: gave me the, you know, the oomph to go out 818 00:43:22,090 --> 00:43:24,250 S1: there and do things because there was so much fear 819 00:43:24,250 --> 00:43:26,730 S1: and there's so much this. And I finally came to 820 00:43:26,770 --> 00:43:31,250 S1: understand that it's almost like somebody losing a leg in 821 00:43:31,250 --> 00:43:34,850 S1: the war and then criticizing them for limping. It's like 822 00:43:34,850 --> 00:43:38,930 S1: they couldn't give me what I needed. Oh that hurts. 823 00:43:38,930 --> 00:43:42,850 S1: That's bad. That's that's awful. That's that's really. But there's, 824 00:43:43,330 --> 00:43:46,530 S1: there's really sad. But there's no reason why I have 825 00:43:46,530 --> 00:43:50,089 S1: to live in the middle of the of the sadness 826 00:43:50,090 --> 00:43:53,690 S1: all the time. In fact, I can. I had other 827 00:43:53,690 --> 00:43:57,770 S1: dads and and other mom figures come along and give 828 00:43:57,770 --> 00:44:00,210 S1: me the things that I couldn't get from my parents, 829 00:44:00,370 --> 00:44:03,750 S1: and that allowed me to be able to release them, 830 00:44:03,950 --> 00:44:06,469 S1: to make them, you know, do this thing, that act 831 00:44:06,469 --> 00:44:08,629 S1: this way, that I wanted them to act. No, they 832 00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:12,190 S1: couldn't do that. So that's not pushing it down. It's 833 00:44:12,190 --> 00:44:17,229 S1: just saying I release you from that expectation that I 834 00:44:17,230 --> 00:44:21,390 S1: have of you, and I'm going to keep doing that. Right, Rosie? 835 00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:23,350 S2: Oh, yeah. And it helps you let go of anger 836 00:44:23,350 --> 00:44:28,270 S2: because the the constant expectation breeds a kind of simmering, 837 00:44:28,270 --> 00:44:32,550 S2: slow disappointment and anger inside of yourself. I mean, this 838 00:44:32,550 --> 00:44:36,710 S2: world is very incomplete. Our lives are very. There are injuries, 839 00:44:36,750 --> 00:44:40,750 S2: you know, and and that's why Jesus came. And he 840 00:44:41,070 --> 00:44:43,870 S2: he comes alongside of us. And he said, they're going 841 00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:46,469 S2: to be bruises. They're going to be bruises. But you 842 00:44:46,469 --> 00:44:49,110 S2: know what? You can you can continue to go. 843 00:44:49,630 --> 00:44:53,550 S1: And the tension is that you're feeling, Tony. The tension 844 00:44:53,750 --> 00:44:56,870 S1: can push you away from God or push you toward him, 845 00:44:56,870 --> 00:45:00,140 S1: or see God as like your parents were, or say, no, 846 00:45:00,140 --> 00:45:03,140 S1: that's not the way God is. To me, that's not 847 00:45:03,140 --> 00:45:06,820 S1: the kind of love that he's shown me. Because for me, 848 00:45:06,820 --> 00:45:09,259 S1: I do see that he sees me. I do see 849 00:45:09,260 --> 00:45:12,540 S1: that he knows me. Um, can we can we conclude 850 00:45:12,540 --> 00:45:14,060 S1: with C.S. Lewis? Rosie. 851 00:45:14,100 --> 00:45:19,859 S2: Yes. The terrible thing, the almost impossible thing is to 852 00:45:19,900 --> 00:45:23,700 S2: hand over your whole self all your wishes and precautions 853 00:45:23,700 --> 00:45:27,180 S2: to Christ. But it is far easier than what we 854 00:45:27,219 --> 00:45:30,180 S2: are all trying to do. Instead, for what we are 855 00:45:30,180 --> 00:45:33,420 S2: trying to do is to remain what we call ourselves, 856 00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:37,340 S2: to keep personal happiness as our great aim in life. 857 00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:40,180 S2: And yet at the same time, be good. 858 00:45:41,980 --> 00:45:42,739 S1: Well, we could. 859 00:45:42,739 --> 00:45:43,460 S3: Do a whole program. 860 00:45:43,460 --> 00:45:45,060 S1: Just on that quote, couldn't we? 861 00:45:45,100 --> 00:45:45,900 S2: Yes we could. 862 00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:50,460 S1: Rosie. Uh, thank you for suggesting letting this topic go 863 00:45:50,780 --> 00:45:54,459 S1: and suggesting again, I have a feeling this is not 864 00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:56,220 S1: the last time we're going to deal with this, because 865 00:45:56,219 --> 00:46:00,330 S1: this is a cyclical Thing just like grief is. It 866 00:46:00,370 --> 00:46:03,650 S1: keeps on coming back. But it's good. It's good to 867 00:46:03,690 --> 00:46:06,850 S1: deal with this. And you've done a good job leading 868 00:46:06,850 --> 00:46:10,370 S1: us through this valley today. God bless you, friend. Come 869 00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:12,730 S1: back and see us. And all the best. If this 870 00:46:12,730 --> 00:46:15,850 S1: is the last semester that you're going to teach at Moody. Oh, 871 00:46:15,890 --> 00:46:17,370 S1: we're going to have to have a party at the 872 00:46:17,370 --> 00:46:17,970 S1: end of this. 873 00:46:18,010 --> 00:46:18,330 S3: Oh, I've. 874 00:46:18,330 --> 00:46:19,410 S2: Had plenty of parties. 875 00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:24,570 S1: And as you've listened today, friend, our whole hope and 876 00:46:24,570 --> 00:46:27,690 S1: and desire for you is that you would get to 877 00:46:27,730 --> 00:46:33,130 S1: that place of delight after walking, slogging through the slough 878 00:46:33,130 --> 00:46:37,049 S1: of despond. You know the really hard stuff of life. 879 00:46:37,370 --> 00:46:39,170 S1: Hope this has been a little bit of wind in 880 00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:41,930 S1: your sails and helped you out. Chris Fabry Live is 881 00:46:41,930 --> 00:46:45,169 S1: a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. 882 00:46:45,370 --> 00:46:47,290 S1: Find us online at Chris Fabry.