WEBVTT - Mapping the Holy Land 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.000 When were the first maps of the Holy Land created? 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:15.040 And what tools did those ancient cartographers use? How do 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.760 today's maps of the region influence the Arab-Israeli conflict? Well, 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:21.520 that's our focus coming up. As always, we'll take plenty 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:24.600 of time to answer your Bible questions. Plus bring you 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.440 the latest headlines from the Middle East. That's all ahead 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:30.040 this week on the program we call the Land and 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:33.080 the book. Hey, welcome. If you're new, welcome. If you're 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.800 not new, we're glad to have you back. I'm John Gieger, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.320 glad to connect as well with your friend and mine, 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.360 Middle East expert Doctor Charlie Dyer. And this week, Charlie, 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.840 it just feels like the Middle East has once again 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:45.800 been shaken like a snow globe. 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:48.080 Oh, John. It has. You know, I'm a news junkie, 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.520 and I found myself going back again and again just 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.640 to find out the events that are happening are moving 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:56.600 at such a rapid pace. Uh, but yeah, it's incredible. 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:59.520 It's like seeing all the the snow flying around in 0:00:59.710 --> 0:01:00.230 that globe. 0:01:00.590 --> 0:01:02.550 Well, as we zoom out just a bit, we have 0:01:02.550 --> 0:01:04.350 to ask ourselves, at this season of the year, what 0:01:04.350 --> 0:01:08.430 does Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus? Some 0:01:08.430 --> 0:01:10.590 might remember the story from the book of Exodus, but 0:01:10.590 --> 0:01:13.150 there's so much more to it. Did you know that 0:01:13.150 --> 0:01:16.350 the Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? And not 0:01:16.350 --> 0:01:20.030 only did Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it also 0:01:20.030 --> 0:01:22.670 foreshadowed his death on the cross for our redemption. 0:01:22.750 --> 0:01:24.950 That's right, John. In fact, Jewish people have been keeping 0:01:24.950 --> 0:01:28.830 the feast of Passover for thousands of years. Understanding the 0:01:28.830 --> 0:01:32.110 history and importance of this holiday will help you connect 0:01:32.110 --> 0:01:35.229 better with your Jewish friends and neighbors. And what better 0:01:35.230 --> 0:01:37.990 way is there to learn about Passover than to experience 0:01:38.030 --> 0:01:42.910 a Passover Seder yourself? If you've never celebrated Passover, our 0:01:42.910 --> 0:01:45.270 friends at Life in Messiah would love to partner with 0:01:45.270 --> 0:01:49.029 you in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their staff 0:01:49.030 --> 0:01:52.910 engage churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah in 0:01:52.910 --> 0:01:56.830 the Passover Seder, allowing participants to taste and see the 0:01:56.830 --> 0:02:00.500 redemption story. Now, if you're interested in having someone come 0:02:00.540 --> 0:02:04.260 lead a Seder in your area, visit Life in Messiah 0:02:04.260 --> 0:02:07.420 Org and click on the radio button there to learn more. 0:02:07.460 --> 0:02:09.299 That's life in Messiah. 0:02:10.419 --> 0:02:13.340 Thank you Charlie. No doubt at the center of the 0:02:13.340 --> 0:02:16.980 very swirled up snow globe situation in the Middle East 0:02:17.260 --> 0:02:20.540 is the ongoing conflict, the drama with the hostages between 0:02:20.580 --> 0:02:23.500 Hamas and Israel. And while, at least in theory, there's 0:02:23.500 --> 0:02:27.579 a ceasefire in hostage exchange in place between Israel and Hamas, 0:02:27.860 --> 0:02:31.140 everything took a dramatic turn on Monday when Hamas announced 0:02:31.139 --> 0:02:34.700 it was suspending the further release of hostages. What reason 0:02:34.700 --> 0:02:37.100 did they give and what's been happening since then? 0:02:37.460 --> 0:02:40.500 Yeah, Hamas announced it was suspending the release of hostages 0:02:40.540 --> 0:02:44.859 until further notice because of what it called Israeli violations. 0:02:45.060 --> 0:02:49.500 In reality, Hamas is manipulating the hostages and the negotiations 0:02:49.500 --> 0:02:53.260 for its own cynical political advantages, trying to use Israel's 0:02:53.300 --> 0:02:57.970 anguish over the deteriorating physical condition of those hostages to 0:02:58.010 --> 0:03:02.050 force Israel to make additional concessions. The expected protests in 0:03:02.050 --> 0:03:05.970 Israel did take place, but then something very unexpected happened. 0:03:06.130 --> 0:03:09.730 President Trump issued his own stark warning to Hamas. He 0:03:09.730 --> 0:03:13.410 demanded that all hostages be released at once by noon, 0:03:13.410 --> 0:03:17.850 February 15th. Otherwise, he said, it will be a different ballgame. Now, 0:03:17.850 --> 0:03:19.770 he used some other words as well, but we'll leave 0:03:19.770 --> 0:03:23.450 those unsaid right here. His clear message, though, was that 0:03:23.450 --> 0:03:25.970 he would give Israel the green light to resume the war, 0:03:26.010 --> 0:03:30.130 to eliminate Hamas if all the hostages aren't released. Hamas 0:03:30.130 --> 0:03:34.050 responded by saying the president's threats have no value. Israel 0:03:34.050 --> 0:03:37.210 called up reserves and sent additional soldiers to the Gaza 0:03:37.250 --> 0:03:41.450 border area. Prime Minister Netanyahu said Israel would resume fighting 0:03:41.450 --> 0:03:45.410 if the hostages aren't released and the cease fire deal collapses. 0:03:45.610 --> 0:03:48.369 And that's where the situation stands as we record this 0:03:48.370 --> 0:03:52.490 program before the actual arrival of that deadline. In spite 0:03:52.490 --> 0:03:55.369 of all the cheering and jeering and hand-wringing and and 0:03:55.370 --> 0:03:57.880 threats that have been going about. Here's what we do 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.400 know right now. A majority of Israelis really don't want 0:04:01.400 --> 0:04:03.800 to go back to war. They want the hostages to 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.760 come home, even if it means allowing Hamas to remain 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:10.040 in control of Gaza. Their fear is that renewed fighting 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:13.000 will result in the deaths of the remaining hostages who 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:17.640 are still alive, along with the deaths of additional soldiers. Hamas, 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:20.960 in spite of its tough talk, also doesn't really want 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.520 renewed fighting because this time Israel won't be restrained by 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.479 the US to hold back. They'll push for the total 0:04:27.480 --> 0:04:32.720 destruction of Hamas's political and military infrastructure. Israel has provided 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.560 an off ramp to the current crisis by saying it 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.919 would continue to adhere to the ceasefire deal if Hamas 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:42.640 releases the sixth group of hostages on Saturday, in accordance 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.480 with the terms of the agreement. And that leaves us 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:48.080 with all eyes on Hamas to see what they'll do 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.840 this weekend and then on into the future. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.760 From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book. 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.020 Our host, doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Yeager. We're looking 0:04:57.020 --> 0:04:59.700 at current events from the Middle East this week. Lebanon 0:04:59.700 --> 0:05:03.260 has formed a new government, the first since 2022. How 0:05:03.260 --> 0:05:06.219 important is this milestone and could it help bring about 0:05:06.220 --> 0:05:08.500 peace between Lebanon and Israel? 0:05:08.900 --> 0:05:11.060 Well, the formation of this new government is a good 0:05:11.060 --> 0:05:14.300 thing and it comes with some very positive signs. You know, 0:05:14.339 --> 0:05:18.180 Lebanon's government is arranged along religious lines. The president is 0:05:18.180 --> 0:05:21.219 always a maronite Christian. The speaker of the parliament is 0:05:21.220 --> 0:05:24.140 always a Shiite Muslim, and the prime minister is always 0:05:24.140 --> 0:05:27.860 a Sunni Muslim. In 2008, an agreement was reached that 0:05:27.860 --> 0:05:30.900 allowed any one of those three, in essence, to have 0:05:30.900 --> 0:05:34.260 veto power in the Council of Ministers, the the executive 0:05:34.260 --> 0:05:38.260 body of the country. Well, Hezbollah effectively used that power 0:05:38.260 --> 0:05:41.900 to hold the country hostage by blocking issues that required 0:05:41.900 --> 0:05:44.500 the two thirds vote or more to pass. Over the 0:05:44.500 --> 0:05:49.060 past six years, Lebanon has experienced several traumatic events, beginning 0:05:49.060 --> 0:05:52.300 in 2019, with the collapse in the value of its 0:05:52.300 --> 0:05:56.610 currency that led to a banking crisis and a debt crisis. Then, 0:05:56.610 --> 0:05:58.930 just one year later in 2020, there was a massive 0:05:58.930 --> 0:06:03.370 explosion in the port of Beirut that killed at least 218, 0:06:03.410 --> 0:06:07.050 injured 7000, and destroyed a major portion of the area 0:06:07.050 --> 0:06:10.690 around the harbor. Most assumed the explosion was caused by 0:06:10.690 --> 0:06:14.770 Hezbollah storing ammonium nitrate at the port. But Hezbollah has 0:06:14.770 --> 0:06:18.890 blocked an investigation. Finally, over the past year, Hezbollah fired 0:06:18.890 --> 0:06:21.770 rockets into Israel, and that led Israel to respond with 0:06:21.770 --> 0:06:26.929 devastating airstrikes on Hezbollah's sites and leadership in Lebanon, severely 0:06:26.970 --> 0:06:30.890 weakening the group but also impacting the infrastructure of the country. 0:06:31.210 --> 0:06:33.890 The US and Europe pushed to have Lebanon form a 0:06:33.890 --> 0:06:39.530 new government without Hezbollah's stranglehold. And apparently that has now succeeded. Now, 0:06:39.690 --> 0:06:43.810 will it bring about peace between Israel and Lebanon? Probably not. 0:06:43.810 --> 0:06:47.050 At least not anytime soon. Iran is still trying to 0:06:47.089 --> 0:06:51.690 rearm Hezbollah until Iran's influence is removed. It seems unlikely 0:06:51.690 --> 0:06:54.760 that Hezbollah will sit by and allow Lebanon to make 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:59.160 peace with Israel. However, if Iran's influence is reduced and 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:02.360 if the latest conflict with Hamas can be resolved, and 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:05.160 if Israel is then able to make peace with Saudi Arabia, 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:09.159 then peace between Israel and Lebanon might just follow. But, John, 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:11.480 there are a lot of ifs in that pathway to peace. 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:13.360 Well, I heard a lot. I didn't count them, but 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.800 there's a lot there. Well, here's an interesting story. For 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.840 the first time in over two years, Israel has officially 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.280 entered a period of drought. What's been happening weather wise? 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.760 And has this created any short term problems for the country? 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.000 Yeah. Israel's water authority has publicly declared that the current 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.640 winter is one of the most arid in recent years, 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:34.440 and is on course to be the driest in a century. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:38.520 Israel's winter rainy season extends from October to March. But 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.080 thus far they've only had one single heavy downpour. Up 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.320 till this past weekend, the Sea of Galilee had risen 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.800 less than one inch. And the flow of the Jordan 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.480 River was the lowest since 1960. Now rainfall totals do 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.070 totals do vary by region in northern Israel. Nazareth has 0:07:54.070 --> 0:07:57.270 only received about 70% of its normal year to date rainfall, 0:07:57.270 --> 0:07:59.430 or that's about 50% of what it would get for 0:07:59.430 --> 0:08:02.830 the annual total. Further south, though, along the coast those 0:08:02.830 --> 0:08:05.870 numbers dropped to 60% of the year to date rainfall 0:08:05.870 --> 0:08:09.950 and 45% of the total. In Jerusalem, it drops still more. 0:08:10.070 --> 0:08:13.910 They've only gotten 50% of the year to date average rainfall, 0:08:13.910 --> 0:08:16.070 and only a third of the year to date total 0:08:16.070 --> 0:08:19.070 annual rainfall. But there is a silver lining in this 0:08:19.070 --> 0:08:23.070 cloudless sky, John. Beginning last weekend and continuing on through 0:08:23.070 --> 0:08:25.910 this past Wednesday, a series of storms did move in 0:08:25.910 --> 0:08:29.990 from the Mediterranean, providing a little relief, and Israel's desalination 0:08:29.990 --> 0:08:33.910 plants continue to supply the country with water from the Mediterranean. 0:08:33.910 --> 0:08:35.949 Some of that's even being piped into the Sea of 0:08:35.950 --> 0:08:39.230 Galilee to help replenish it. Right now, the Sea of 0:08:39.230 --> 0:08:42.110 Galilee is holding steady at just over eight feet below 0:08:42.110 --> 0:08:45.150 the upper Red line, which is the lake's maximum capacity, 0:08:45.150 --> 0:08:48.510 and just over 5.5ft above the lower red line, which 0:08:48.510 --> 0:08:50.740 is the lowest level they ever want it to reach. 0:08:50.940 --> 0:08:53.540 Hopefully there'll be more storms on the horizon through this 0:08:53.540 --> 0:08:56.179 month and into early March to make up for the 0:08:56.179 --> 0:08:59.300 shortfall this fall. You know, God said rain is a blessing. 0:08:59.340 --> 0:09:01.380 And right now, the people in Israel are in fact, 0:09:01.380 --> 0:09:03.939 the entire region are hoping to receive some of that 0:09:03.940 --> 0:09:07.340 blessing before the dry summer months arrive, for sure. 0:09:07.820 --> 0:09:10.300 Our final story takes us to the beautiful Greek island 0:09:10.340 --> 0:09:15.460 of Santorini, which unfortunately has been experiencing a swarm of earthquakes. 0:09:15.620 --> 0:09:18.620 How serious is the threat facing the island and what 0:09:18.620 --> 0:09:21.860 potential impact could it have on surrounding countries? 0:09:21.900 --> 0:09:23.740 Yeah, this swarm. And so right now it's more than 0:09:23.740 --> 0:09:28.340 12,000 earthquakes. It began on January 28th. It continues even 0:09:28.340 --> 0:09:31.020 as we're speaking. Scientists don't know if the swarm will 0:09:31.020 --> 0:09:33.300 simply cease on its own, or if it's leading up 0:09:33.300 --> 0:09:36.220 to a much larger earthquake in the near future. The 0:09:36.220 --> 0:09:38.819 good news, if there is any when it comes to earthquakes, 0:09:38.860 --> 0:09:42.140 is that these aren't volcanic earthquakes. A Santorini was one 0:09:42.140 --> 0:09:46.219 of the world's largest volcanic eruptions back in 1600 B.C. 0:09:46.500 --> 0:09:49.809 that caused the collapse of the Minoan civilization on Crete. 0:09:49.809 --> 0:09:51.570 But the greater risk right now with this one is 0:09:51.570 --> 0:09:54.730 that a major earthquake might generate a tsunami that could 0:09:54.730 --> 0:09:58.290 reach out across the region. Greece placed Santorini under a 0:09:58.290 --> 0:10:03.050 state of emergency. Turkey's Disaster and Emergency Management Authority is 0:10:03.210 --> 0:10:05.730 looking carefully at the coastline of Turkey, which is about 0:10:05.730 --> 0:10:09.449 100 miles away, and Israel's National Security Council is looking 0:10:09.450 --> 0:10:13.290 as well, even though they're nearly 750 miles away. Uh, 0:10:13.290 --> 0:10:16.290 let's hope that these swarms of earthquakes subside without leading 0:10:16.290 --> 0:10:19.010 to a much larger earthquake in the near future. For 0:10:19.010 --> 0:10:21.610 the people on the island and for all the surrounding nations, 0:10:21.610 --> 0:10:24.170 holding their breath and hoping not to see that tsunami. 0:10:24.290 --> 0:10:27.170 And that's a look at current events. Up next, mapping 0:10:27.170 --> 0:10:30.849 the Holy Land. Insights into the first maps ever created 0:10:30.850 --> 0:10:47.800 on the land. And the book. When were the first 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.880 maps of the Holy Land first drawn on paper? And 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:54.800 what tools did those ancient cartographers really use? How did 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.719 today's maps of the region influence the Arab-Israeli conflict? Well, 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.720 that's our focus next. Welcome to the land and the 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.120 book from Moody Radio. I'm John Gieger, inviting you into 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.400 a conversation about mapping the Holy Land. What do you 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:12.920 say we welcome our guest, Jean-Pierre Isbouts, along with Neil Asbury. 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:17.120 He has coauthored Mapping the Holy Land An Illustrated Atlas. 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:21.600 Jean-Pierre is a professor in the social Sciences PhD program 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:27.839 at Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara, California, and an archaeologist, author, screenwriter, 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.720 director and producer. I've looked at some of his work. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:32.640 It's a great collection, and we've got a lot of 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.960 regard for what you're doing. With that, welcome to the 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:36.520 land and the book, Jean-Pierre. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:38.680 John, it's my pleasure. Thank you. 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.920 Well, what do we know about the oldest surviving maps 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:44.360 of the Holy Land? How old are they? And what 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:45.360 is their origin? 0:11:46.020 --> 0:11:49.780 Well, of course we we don't know exactly what maps 0:11:49.820 --> 0:11:53.900 exist during the time of the great kingdoms of Israel 0:11:54.020 --> 0:11:57.780 and Judah. The oldest map that's in the book is 0:11:57.820 --> 0:12:01.820 actually a Babylonian map of the world from the second 0:12:01.820 --> 0:12:06.020 millennium B.C. so in clay it was a clay tablet. 0:12:06.260 --> 0:12:11.420 So unfortunately, once paper starts to be used, paper is 0:12:11.420 --> 0:12:14.940 very brittle. It's very vulnerable. And so not much of 0:12:14.980 --> 0:12:19.340 that has survived. But we do have reconstructions of these 0:12:19.380 --> 0:12:23.339 earliest maps and during the Roman time. So let's say 0:12:23.340 --> 0:12:26.420 this is the time of the first century, the time 0:12:26.420 --> 0:12:29.780 of Jesus. In fact, the oldest map in the book 0:12:30.059 --> 0:12:34.900 was created by a Roman geographer called Pomponius Mela, and 0:12:34.900 --> 0:12:39.059 he created a map of the world in which Palestina, 0:12:39.100 --> 0:12:42.980 as it was called in those days, and Judea, are 0:12:42.980 --> 0:12:46.809 very clearly marked at the center of the map. And 0:12:46.850 --> 0:12:49.569 that's the map we're very proud of. And that's really 0:12:49.809 --> 0:12:51.810 at the heart of the book. And from that point on, 0:12:51.850 --> 0:12:57.050 we chart how the developments in the Holy Land from 0:12:57.490 --> 0:13:01.569 the Roman period, from the time of Jesus all through 0:13:01.610 --> 0:13:06.530 the Persian conquest and the Muslim conquest, have affected the 0:13:06.530 --> 0:13:11.730 way people imagine the Holy Land, especially Christian pilgrims who 0:13:11.770 --> 0:13:14.170 use these maps to come to the Holy Land. 0:13:14.809 --> 0:13:17.610 Okay, so you mentioned the difficulty of of hanging on 0:13:17.610 --> 0:13:21.330 to paper copies of these maps, but how were these 0:13:21.330 --> 0:13:24.410 oldest of the oldest that are still extant survive? How 0:13:24.410 --> 0:13:27.010 were they preserved? Time and elements are not friends to 0:13:27.050 --> 0:13:29.490 printed things, as we've already discussed. 0:13:29.850 --> 0:13:34.570 No. That's true. And we have to thank really the scribes, 0:13:34.650 --> 0:13:40.370 first of the period in Spain. Andalusia. When Spain was 0:13:40.490 --> 0:13:46.760 basically ruled by Muslims, and they built large libraries who 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:54.160 basically preserved the great texts of Greek and Roman authors. They, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.040 of course, transcribed them and copied them, and from them 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:02.119 from these great libraries in Al-Andalus, which is Andalusia today. 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:07.319 They were transferred to the monasteries of the Great Western Europe, 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:12.320 the Benedictine, all these other great monasteries that emerged during 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:17.359 the Dark Ages and became really centers of European culture. 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:21.400 And they preserved these maps. And so the most important 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.400 map which is throughout the book is the map created 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:29.040 by a geographer called Ptolemy in the second century, who 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.040 created maps of the world, and particularly the Holy Land, 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.600 which would be copied for centuries to come. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.800 An intriguing journey to the Holy Land, as told by 0:14:38.800 --> 0:14:41.750 the rare maps and prints that we have today That's 0:14:41.750 --> 0:14:44.910 mapping the Holy Land. Our conversation on the land and 0:14:44.910 --> 0:14:48.990 the book with our guest, doctor Jean-Pierre Isbouts. What tools 0:14:48.990 --> 0:14:53.230 did ancient cartographers use? They had no laser measuring things. 0:14:53.230 --> 0:14:56.870 No views from space, no Google Maps, certainly. What did 0:14:56.870 --> 0:14:57.470 they use? 0:14:57.990 --> 0:15:02.270 They used what we call portolan charts, which are basically 0:15:02.270 --> 0:15:06.430 maps that are drawn by mariners. You know, obviously, particularly 0:15:06.430 --> 0:15:11.230 in the second century, there were many scheduled services by 0:15:11.230 --> 0:15:14.470 ship throughout the Mediterranean. It's amazing. You know, you could 0:15:14.510 --> 0:15:18.630 book a seat on a ship from Alexandria to Rome 0:15:18.950 --> 0:15:23.430 even as far as Britain. And these scheduled services obviously 0:15:23.430 --> 0:15:27.310 required captains who knew how to navigate their way across 0:15:27.310 --> 0:15:30.950 the Mediterranean. And so we believe that it was these 0:15:30.950 --> 0:15:35.990 trade portolan charts that these captains used all the way, 0:15:36.030 --> 0:15:39.990 in fact, to what we believe is Southeast Asia. Roman 0:15:40.300 --> 0:15:44.580 traders were believed to go as far as India. Some 0:15:44.580 --> 0:15:47.900 believe as far as Vietnam and even China, where the 0:15:47.900 --> 0:15:52.900 Romans were customers of silk. Chinese silk made its appearance 0:15:52.900 --> 0:15:57.140 in the Roman Empire in the second century AD. So 0:15:57.180 --> 0:16:01.100 thanks to these great trade routes that we have, the 0:16:01.100 --> 0:16:04.660 the great maps by Ptolemy and so many other great 0:16:04.660 --> 0:16:07.380 geographers that were to come afterwards. 0:16:07.540 --> 0:16:10.220 In addition to the very colorful and plentiful maps in 0:16:10.220 --> 0:16:13.340 this book, I noticed you do a remarkable job of 0:16:13.340 --> 0:16:16.860 explaining in your text thousands of years of history in 0:16:16.860 --> 0:16:20.060 a relatively few number of pages. I was just amazed. 0:16:20.060 --> 0:16:22.380 I take my hat off to you, Jean-Pierre. But how 0:16:22.380 --> 0:16:24.260 difficult was that part of the process? 0:16:24.580 --> 0:16:29.380 Well, I've been very blessed, John. As a historian, I 0:16:29.380 --> 0:16:33.820 was asked in 2006 by National Geographic to write a 0:16:33.820 --> 0:16:37.820 book called The Biblical World, which describes the world of 0:16:37.980 --> 0:16:43.250 the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament from its geographical, political, 0:16:43.290 --> 0:16:47.490 social viewpoint. And I had the full services of the 0:16:47.490 --> 0:16:52.010 cartography section of National Geographic. That book, The Biblical World, 0:16:52.050 --> 0:16:56.490 became a worldwide bestseller. I don't know who was more surprised, 0:16:56.530 --> 0:17:00.090 my editor or myself, but in any case, they printed 0:17:00.090 --> 0:17:02.810 close to half a million copies of that book. It's 0:17:02.810 --> 0:17:06.490 been translated in many languages, and since then I wrote 0:17:06.490 --> 0:17:10.090 many other books for National Geographic about In the footsteps 0:17:10.090 --> 0:17:13.649 of Jesus and so forth. So I've become very, very 0:17:13.930 --> 0:17:18.250 obviously very familiar with the history of the Holy Land. But, 0:17:18.290 --> 0:17:21.450 you know, John, my goal is always to make texts 0:17:21.450 --> 0:17:24.730 like these accessible to the general reader. These are not 0:17:24.730 --> 0:17:28.850 scholarly works. I mean, I write scholarly articles, but maybe 0:17:28.850 --> 0:17:31.489 two guys and a dog will read those. It's the 0:17:31.490 --> 0:17:35.169 right books for that. Everyone can enjoy that. A family 0:17:35.410 --> 0:17:40.120 can gather around and browse through these beautiful illustrations and 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:43.520 and read the text and enrich their lives. And particularly 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.960 for Christians, it's it's so important for us to know 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.840 how the Holy Land shaped the stories of the Gospels 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.640 and everything that was to follow. So that's really my 0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:54.720 target audience. 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.040 Our guest today on the land and the book is 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.840 Jean-Pierre Isbouts. He has co-authored Mapping the Holy Land An 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:05.320 Illustrated Atlas. When did the idea of including a sense 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:08.440 of distance, a scale, you know, one inch equals x 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:11.520 amount of meters or miles? What did that become commonplace? 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:14.879 That became commonplace in the Renaissance? So what you see 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.760 in the Renaissance are two things. You see, first of all, 0:18:17.800 --> 0:18:22.080 the invention of the printing press, which is very, very important. 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:27.320 In fact, the Reformation could not have succeeded as it did, 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:30.920 were it not that the words of Martin Luther and 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:35.800 John Calvin were printed in booklets and spread rapidly throughout 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.830 the Empire, and second of all, nautical charts and nautical 0:18:40.830 --> 0:18:46.109 measuring instruments were introduced in the 16th century, particularly developed 0:18:46.109 --> 0:18:50.750 in Florence during the time of the Medicis, who ruled 0:18:50.750 --> 0:18:54.110 Florence in the 16th and 17th centuries. And that's when 0:18:54.109 --> 0:18:59.350 you see that the compass and other important instruments were developed, 0:18:59.390 --> 0:19:03.750 which allowed people to measure these distances. And in fact, 0:19:03.750 --> 0:19:07.830 the first maps that use these distances are the ones 0:19:07.830 --> 0:19:10.950 from the 17th century, which we call the golden era 0:19:11.190 --> 0:19:15.070 of cartography, when you can really see rhumb lines and 0:19:15.310 --> 0:19:20.990 other ways of measuring the distance between these various territories, 0:19:20.990 --> 0:19:24.270 which of course was very important. If you planned a journey, 0:19:24.310 --> 0:19:26.750 you wanted to know how much food and water you 0:19:26.750 --> 0:19:29.590 were supposed to bring along. So yeah, that's really an 0:19:29.590 --> 0:19:31.150 invention of the Renaissance. 0:19:31.950 --> 0:19:34.790 Have the ways that we use maps evolved over the 0:19:34.790 --> 0:19:39.209 over the years with the increasing sophistication and accuracy, or no. 0:19:39.250 --> 0:19:41.450 We've pretty much always used the maps the way we've 0:19:41.490 --> 0:19:42.290 used maps. 0:19:42.770 --> 0:19:45.570 Oh, no. No, John, you're absolutely right. It changed a lot. 0:19:45.609 --> 0:19:49.970 I mean, as I said, first there were documents for trade. Then, 0:19:49.970 --> 0:19:52.890 you see, in the wake of the Reformation, it is very, 0:19:52.890 --> 0:19:57.130 very interesting, you see that Bibles are being printed now 0:19:57.130 --> 0:20:01.970 with the printing press, and it is specifically Protestant Bibles, 0:20:02.010 --> 0:20:06.530 not Catholic Bibles, but Protestant Bibles, who first of all 0:20:06.570 --> 0:20:12.050 printed the Gospels in the vernacular, whatever local language you know, 0:20:12.090 --> 0:20:15.010 you might find. And second of all, it is these 0:20:15.050 --> 0:20:20.210 Protestant Bibles who begin to print maps with the text 0:20:20.250 --> 0:20:23.530 of the Gospels and of the Old Testament, because they 0:20:23.570 --> 0:20:28.890 were really keen that people understood the social and geographical 0:20:28.890 --> 0:20:32.850 and the historical context of the stories. And one very 0:20:32.850 --> 0:20:37.479 prominent feature of Protestant Bibles is the Exodus, and they 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:42.320 are countless maps, beautiful maps, hand-colored in many cases of 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:45.240 the route of the exodus from Egypt. Because just as 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.640 Moses led his people from Egypt into the Promised Land, 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:53.439 so did Martin Luther and John Calvin, and countless people 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:58.399 like them lead Christians away from the papacy into the 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:00.680 Promised Land. Or at least that was the view of 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.639 the Protestants. And then Catholic Bibles finally began to follow 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:10.320 that example. And so, you see, starting in the 18th century, 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:15.560 that Catholic Bibles begin to include maps and engravings of 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.880 the Second Temple and important locations where these events took 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.239 place as well. And then by the 19th century, a 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:28.919 total change, the Christian connotation of the maps of the 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.400 Holy Land, including the placement of the 12 tribes of 0:21:32.550 --> 0:21:36.710 Israel sort of falls away, and now maps gain far 0:21:36.710 --> 0:21:40.990 more political character. The geographers who created these are really 0:21:40.990 --> 0:21:46.390 more interested in the political and the geographical features, because 0:21:46.430 --> 0:21:49.470 guess what? This is the time of the construction of 0:21:49.470 --> 0:21:54.630 the Suez Canal. And the British primarily were very concerned 0:21:55.070 --> 0:22:00.630 that the surrounding territory, including what was then called Ottoman Palestine, 0:22:00.990 --> 0:22:04.870 would be accessible to troops in the event of trouble. 0:22:05.230 --> 0:22:08.150 And when they needed to protect the Suez Canal. And 0:22:08.150 --> 0:22:13.149 those are the maps that General Allenby used as he 0:22:13.190 --> 0:22:18.710 conquered Palestine and entered Jerusalem in 1917, near the end 0:22:18.710 --> 0:22:20.470 of the World War one. And, of course, for the 0:22:20.470 --> 0:22:28.830 rest of that period, until 1947, Palestine was British ruled territory. 0:22:28.869 --> 0:22:31.540 And that gets us into the modern era. 0:22:32.060 --> 0:22:36.940 Jean-Pierre Isbouts has co-authored Mapping the Holy Land An Illustrated Atlas. 0:22:36.980 --> 0:22:39.859 He is a professor in the Social Sciences PhD program 0:22:39.859 --> 0:22:44.820 of Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara, California, and an archaeologist, author, 0:22:44.820 --> 0:22:47.820 a screenwriter, director and producer. Let me ask you, how 0:22:47.820 --> 0:22:50.100 do you look at today's maps when you try to 0:22:50.100 --> 0:22:55.220 process the Arab-Israeli conflict? Do those maps somehow influence that conflict? 0:22:55.420 --> 0:22:59.460 Oh, absolutely. I mean, maps have become crucial. And in fact, John, 0:22:59.460 --> 0:23:02.060 this is interesting because originally the book was supposed to 0:23:02.060 --> 0:23:06.180 end in the 19th century, and then the October 7th 0:23:06.500 --> 0:23:10.939 invasion of Israel by Hamas took place. And we placed 0:23:10.940 --> 0:23:14.020 the call to our publisher, Apollo Publishers, and we said, 0:23:14.020 --> 0:23:16.260 we need to end this book now. We can't just 0:23:16.260 --> 0:23:20.900 stop in the 19th century because maps are so critical. Now, 0:23:21.020 --> 0:23:25.139 as we decide, you know, how do Palestinians and Israelis 0:23:25.180 --> 0:23:29.060 can live in peace together? And they agreed. They postponed 0:23:29.060 --> 0:23:31.609 the release of the of the book. And so I 0:23:31.609 --> 0:23:35.690 wrote a last chapter with Neil. Which brings us all 0:23:35.690 --> 0:23:39.689 up to date on the situation, including Gaza in the 0:23:39.690 --> 0:23:42.690 21st century. And the most important thing is that we 0:23:42.690 --> 0:23:48.370 include the map from 1947, when the United Nations. Agreed 0:23:48.410 --> 0:23:54.530 by majority on the division of Palestine into a Jewish 0:23:54.530 --> 0:23:57.409 state and an Arab state. This was the two state 0:23:57.410 --> 0:24:01.330 solution that we're still talking about. And it was agreed 0:24:01.609 --> 0:24:04.690 in 1947 that this would take place. And we have 0:24:04.690 --> 0:24:09.330 that map in there and the Jewish Agency led by 0:24:09.369 --> 0:24:13.409 David Ben-Gurion. They weren't terribly happy with the way the 0:24:13.410 --> 0:24:17.170 division was made, but okay, they accepted it. And thus 0:24:17.170 --> 0:24:21.209 the State of Israel was born. The Arab League, on 0:24:21.210 --> 0:24:24.770 the other hand, did not agree, and as a result, 0:24:24.810 --> 0:24:28.609 the Arab states invaded what was then the newborn state 0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:33.320 of Israel really trying to push the Israelis into the 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.720 Mediterranean Sea. And of course, as we know, that war 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:41.600 was won by Israel. 60% of the land allotted to 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:45.800 the Arab territories were taken. And guess what? This is 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:49.480 something that most people don't realize. The West Bank and 0:24:49.480 --> 0:24:53.680 Gaza were then not given to the Palestinian people, as 0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:57.640 the United Nations had ruled. They were taken. They were annexed. 0:24:57.680 --> 0:25:01.520 The West Bank was annexed by Jordan or Transjordan, as 0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:05.200 it was called at the time, and Gaza was taken 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:09.280 as property by Egypt. And that's why the Palestinian people 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:12.920 never had a chance. And often people blame a lot 0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:15.400 of people for the conflict. But it was really the 0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:19.159 fact that the Arab states did not turn over the 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:22.800 West Bank and Gaza, which were the two remnants of 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:26.600 the Arab state decreed by the United Nations, back to 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:29.750 the To the Palestinians, they were taken. And that's really 0:25:29.750 --> 0:25:33.550 the seed of all of the conflicts that have come 0:25:33.550 --> 0:25:34.310 ever since. 0:25:34.750 --> 0:25:36.950 Well, so much to learn, so much to look at 0:25:36.950 --> 0:25:39.629 in this book, Mapping the Holy Land. We encourage you 0:25:39.630 --> 0:25:42.070 to check it out. There's a link at our website. Jean-Pierre, 0:25:42.109 --> 0:25:45.429 it's been a great conversation. I love your enthusiasm and 0:25:45.430 --> 0:25:46.550 thanks for keeping it simple. 0:25:46.910 --> 0:25:48.750 John, this is wonderful. Thanks for having me. 0:25:48.790 --> 0:25:51.150 You betcha. Up next on the land and the book 0:25:51.190 --> 0:25:53.830 A return to Your Bible questions. I'm looking forward to 0:25:53.830 --> 0:26:07.830 the answers next. Right here. I'm not even sure it's 0:26:07.830 --> 0:26:10.670 possible to open the Bible and read more than one 0:26:10.670 --> 0:26:13.429 or 2 or 3 verses and not have a question 0:26:13.430 --> 0:26:15.990 of some kind. I am John Gager. At least that's 0:26:15.990 --> 0:26:19.190 my experience. Welcome back to segment three of The Land 0:26:19.190 --> 0:26:21.869 and the book, and your questions are very much at 0:26:21.869 --> 0:26:23.790 the front and center of what we're about to do. 0:26:23.950 --> 0:26:26.109 They come to us via email. I'll share that email 0:26:26.220 --> 0:26:28.780 address later on. First, though, a quick thought. What does 0:26:28.780 --> 0:26:33.020 Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus? Some might 0:26:33.020 --> 0:26:35.340 remember the story from the book of Exodus, but there's 0:26:35.340 --> 0:26:37.939 so much more to it. For example, did you know 0:26:37.940 --> 0:26:41.420 that the Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? Not 0:26:41.420 --> 0:26:45.220 only did Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it's also 0:26:45.220 --> 0:26:48.859 foreshadowing his death on the cross for our redemption. Jewish 0:26:48.859 --> 0:26:52.220 people have been observing the feast of Passover for thousands 0:26:52.220 --> 0:26:55.140 of years, and understanding the history and importance of this 0:26:55.140 --> 0:26:57.780 holiday will help you better connect with your Jewish friends 0:26:57.780 --> 0:27:00.500 and neighbors. And what better way is there to learn 0:27:00.500 --> 0:27:05.060 about Passover than to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If 0:27:05.060 --> 0:27:08.420 you have never celebrated Passover. Well, our friends at Life 0:27:08.420 --> 0:27:11.540 in Messiah would love to partner with you in hosting 0:27:11.540 --> 0:27:15.100 a Seder experience. Every year, their staff engage churches and 0:27:15.100 --> 0:27:19.340 small groups in an interactive Messiah in the Passover Seder, 0:27:19.540 --> 0:27:23.899 allowing participants to taste and see the redemption story. So 0:27:23.900 --> 0:27:25.890 if you're interested in interested in having somebody come lead 0:27:25.890 --> 0:27:30.090 a Seder in your area, visit Life in Messiah and 0:27:30.090 --> 0:27:32.490 click on the Moody Radio button there to learn more. Again, 0:27:32.490 --> 0:27:37.129 that's life in Messiah with me in the studio, Doctor 0:27:37.130 --> 0:27:40.010 Gerald Peterman of the Moody Bible Institute faculty. How's your 0:27:40.010 --> 0:27:40.810 day going, sir? 0:27:40.850 --> 0:27:43.170 Well, I've avoided frostbite, so I'm doing well. 0:27:44.130 --> 0:27:46.570 All right, let's dig into our questions with this one 0:27:46.570 --> 0:27:50.290 from Stan, who takes us to Exodus 2319. Where it 0:27:50.290 --> 0:27:53.850 says the first of the first fruits of thy land. 0:27:53.890 --> 0:27:56.330 Thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God. 0:27:56.530 --> 0:27:59.650 Thou shalt not see the a kid in his mother's milk. 0:27:59.890 --> 0:28:02.930 And Exodus 3426 says, the first of the first fruits 0:28:02.930 --> 0:28:05.210 of thy land, thou shalt bring it to the house 0:28:05.210 --> 0:28:07.729 of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not see the 0:28:07.730 --> 0:28:10.369 kid in his mother's milk. All right. He wants to know. 0:28:10.410 --> 0:28:13.850 Don't boil a kid in his mother's milk. Why did 0:28:13.850 --> 0:28:16.850 God have Moses write this? Can your Jewish expertise help 0:28:16.850 --> 0:28:19.090 me answer this? And I think it it might be 0:28:19.090 --> 0:28:22.570 a way to avoid prions disease. Prions only comes from 0:28:22.570 --> 0:28:26.550 eating infected meats. Is it possible that the DNA in 0:28:26.550 --> 0:28:29.669 the mother and the baby could become infected, creating mad 0:28:29.670 --> 0:28:33.429 cows disease or chronic wasting disease of deer? I know 0:28:33.430 --> 0:28:35.430 this is getting complex, but I'd love to hear some 0:28:35.430 --> 0:28:37.110 Jewish perspectives on this law. 0:28:37.150 --> 0:28:39.430 Yeah, good. Well, the law against boiling a kid in 0:28:39.430 --> 0:28:42.070 his mother's milk is in these two verses you mentioned, 0:28:42.110 --> 0:28:46.270 and also one in Deuteronomy 14. Now, I've actually never 0:28:46.270 --> 0:28:50.350 heard this about a theory about prions disease. And maybe God, 0:28:50.510 --> 0:28:54.070 in his great wisdom and his omniscience, is giving this 0:28:54.070 --> 0:28:56.910 as a health concern, but I doubt it. I think 0:28:56.910 --> 0:28:58.910 the best way to understand these verses is that God 0:28:58.910 --> 0:29:02.510 wants his people, and their sacrifices that they bring to 0:29:02.510 --> 0:29:06.229 be holy, to be set apart for him, and to 0:29:06.270 --> 0:29:10.469 be different from the pagan religious practices around them, because 0:29:10.470 --> 0:29:12.950 all around them in the land of Israel would be 0:29:13.190 --> 0:29:16.430 all worship and all sorts of corrupt worship. This difference, 0:29:16.430 --> 0:29:20.590 indeed this holiness, is implied in the Deuteronomy passage about this, 0:29:20.630 --> 0:29:24.220 which says, you shall not eat anything that has died naturally. 0:29:24.220 --> 0:29:26.540 You may give it to the sojourners within your towns, 0:29:26.540 --> 0:29:28.220 that he may eat it, or you may sell it 0:29:28.220 --> 0:29:32.340 to a foreigner. For you are a people holy to 0:29:32.340 --> 0:29:35.020 the Lord your God. You shall not boil a goat 0:29:35.020 --> 0:29:37.140 in its mother's milk. So I think the practice is 0:29:37.140 --> 0:29:40.540 forbidden because it's a pagan practice which God forbids for 0:29:40.540 --> 0:29:41.180 his people. 0:29:41.220 --> 0:29:44.900 Okay. Great answer. Hope that's helpful. There, Stan. Aaron says, 0:29:44.900 --> 0:29:49.020 is the Euphrates River mentioned in Genesis two before the flood? 0:29:49.180 --> 0:29:52.340 The same river mentioned in revelation? I thought the flood 0:29:52.340 --> 0:29:55.420 changed the earth so dramatically that features like rivers would 0:29:55.420 --> 0:29:57.580 have been completely changed or destroyed. 0:29:57.980 --> 0:30:01.020 Yeah, I appreciate that. Certainly. When the flood came, it 0:30:01.020 --> 0:30:03.580 caused all sorts of changes. But but of course, we 0:30:03.580 --> 0:30:07.060 can't know exactly what those changes were. So I think 0:30:07.060 --> 0:30:10.540 the short answer is yes, we're dealing with the same 0:30:10.540 --> 0:30:15.300 river later in Genesis. Genesis 15, God makes a covenant 0:30:15.780 --> 0:30:19.500 about the promised Land to Abraham, with the river Euphrates 0:30:19.540 --> 0:30:22.170 as its eastern border. So here we're, you know, after 0:30:22.170 --> 0:30:24.850 the flood and the Euphrates River is there as a border. 0:30:24.850 --> 0:30:28.410 And then later, centuries later with Solomon, the Euphrates is 0:30:28.410 --> 0:30:32.410 not just the promised border, but the actual geographic border 0:30:32.410 --> 0:30:34.890 of the kingdom. So I take it the short answer 0:30:34.890 --> 0:30:37.770 is yes. The river in revelation and the river in 0:30:37.770 --> 0:30:39.370 Genesis are the same river. 0:30:39.730 --> 0:30:41.970 You're listening to the land and the book with Doctor 0:30:41.970 --> 0:30:45.850 Gerald Peterman answering questions. I'm John Gieger. Yours is welcome 0:30:45.850 --> 0:30:50.410 at the land and the book at. Pat says, I 0:30:50.410 --> 0:30:52.330 recently read a book that had a chapter or two 0:30:52.370 --> 0:30:55.890 on the different genealogies, two of them given for Jesus 0:30:55.890 --> 0:30:58.770 in Matthew one. And then in Luke three. The author 0:30:58.770 --> 0:31:02.370 gave his explanation for them both about Jeconiah being cursed 0:31:02.370 --> 0:31:05.370 so he'd be childless, and then being listed as the 0:31:05.370 --> 0:31:09.490 father of Shealtiel and the two different fathers listed for Joseph. Now, 0:31:09.490 --> 0:31:11.530 I've looked at several other books since then and each 0:31:11.530 --> 0:31:14.370 one has a different opinion. Can you help me untangle this? 0:31:14.410 --> 0:31:17.010 Well, I hope so. First, in the ancient world, we 0:31:17.010 --> 0:31:19.370 have to keep in mind that genealogies are serving a 0:31:19.370 --> 0:31:22.120 serving a purpose that it's kind of unusual for us. 0:31:22.440 --> 0:31:26.400 So Matthew has 41 names and Luke has 57 names, 0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:29.520 so they're obviously doing something a little bit different. As 0:31:29.560 --> 0:31:34.480 for Jeconiah, he's also known as Konia and sometimes known 0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:38.920 as Jehoiachin. Was he childless? In the typical sense that 0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:42.400 we think about it, let's go to Jeremiah 22 and 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.480 we're going to start at verse 28. Quote. Is this 0:31:45.480 --> 0:31:49.520 man konia a despised broken pot, a vessel no one 0:31:49.520 --> 0:31:54.640 cares for? Why are he and his children hurled and 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.760 cast into the land? They do not know. Oh, land, land! 0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:00.560 Hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God, 0:32:00.560 --> 0:32:04.640 write this man down as childless, a man who will 0:32:04.640 --> 0:32:08.160 not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring 0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:12.640 will sit upon the throne. So Jeconiah is not actually childless, 0:32:12.640 --> 0:32:15.520 just childless in the sense of the kingdom does not 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:17.040 keep going through him. 0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:20.430 Okay. Important distinction. Thank you for that. Judy wants to 0:32:20.430 --> 0:32:23.229 know when Jesus was 12 years old, the religious teachers 0:32:23.230 --> 0:32:27.030 were amazed at all he knew and taught. My question 0:32:27.070 --> 0:32:30.590 were these the same religious leaders who wanted him crucified? 0:32:30.630 --> 0:32:32.630 18 years later, this. 0:32:32.630 --> 0:32:34.830 Question really made me think and I just love that. 0:32:35.190 --> 0:32:38.030 So thanks so much for the question. The time when 0:32:38.030 --> 0:32:42.310 Jesus at 12 years old was astonishing. The religious leaders. 0:32:42.310 --> 0:32:46.070 That's Luke two. So the short answer is we really 0:32:46.070 --> 0:32:49.270 can't know exactly whether the leaders then are the same 0:32:49.270 --> 0:32:52.230 ones at the time of his crucifixion, because that's, as 0:32:52.230 --> 0:32:55.510 you mentioned, 18 years later. But I suspect there was 0:32:55.510 --> 0:32:59.030 a lot of overlap when our Lord was 12. Perhaps 0:32:59.030 --> 0:33:01.990 the religious leaders were in their 40s or 50 or 60, 0:33:02.230 --> 0:33:05.030 so perhaps a number of them have died, but perhaps 0:33:05.030 --> 0:33:07.550 a number of them are still alive when we come 0:33:07.710 --> 0:33:11.030 to how they treat him horribly several years later, let's 0:33:11.030 --> 0:33:14.710 look at a slightly different example. You recall the triumphal 0:33:14.710 --> 0:33:18.780 entry in Luke 19. Yes, Jesus is coming in and 0:33:18.780 --> 0:33:21.660 the crowd is praising him and the crowd is joyful 0:33:21.660 --> 0:33:23.980 and they're calling him King of Israel. And then one 0:33:23.980 --> 0:33:28.060 week later, the crowd shouts for his crucifixion. So I 0:33:28.060 --> 0:33:30.380 think part of this question is, how can there be 0:33:30.380 --> 0:33:33.460 such a radical change over the course of maybe even 0:33:33.460 --> 0:33:35.780 a week, or just a few years? Well, there are 0:33:35.780 --> 0:33:37.500 several examples of that in Scripture. 0:33:38.100 --> 0:33:41.340 Marvin asks, do we know how many years there were 0:33:41.340 --> 0:33:44.820 between Noah and Abraham? What are we to make of 0:33:44.820 --> 0:33:47.540 the gaps that are apparently there? How do we account 0:33:47.580 --> 0:33:50.220 on a larger scale for China, for example, with a 0:33:50.220 --> 0:33:53.900 5000 year history? How does this fit in? Or are 0:33:54.060 --> 0:33:56.980 these people just wrong? Do they not allow for more time? 0:33:56.980 --> 0:33:58.900 Do you know of any good book that matches Bible 0:33:58.900 --> 0:34:01.940 history to world history? Some people say the Bible isn't 0:34:01.940 --> 0:34:06.380 true because it doesn't fit historical data. Maybe non-Christian historians 0:34:06.380 --> 0:34:08.540 data is not accurate. Your thoughts? 0:34:09.020 --> 0:34:14.140 Well, according to Genesis seven, Noah is 600 years old 0:34:14.180 --> 0:34:16.690 at the time of the flood. Blood. And then in 0:34:16.690 --> 0:34:21.410 Genesis 929, we find that he lived 350 years after 0:34:21.410 --> 0:34:24.569 the flood. Then if we go to Genesis 11 and 0:34:24.570 --> 0:34:27.370 we follow the list of descendants, we find that Abraham 0:34:27.370 --> 0:34:32.210 was born 292 years after the flood. So in other words, 0:34:32.370 --> 0:34:36.489 their lives overlapped a little bit. As for China's 5000 0:34:36.489 --> 0:34:39.410 year history, that's not a problem. The Bible doesn't tell 0:34:39.410 --> 0:34:41.970 us the history of all people groups. It focuses on 0:34:41.969 --> 0:34:45.009 the people of God. But if we look at biblical history, 0:34:45.290 --> 0:34:49.609 and with 2000 years since the life of Christ, then 0:34:49.610 --> 0:34:52.210 all of biblical history comes out to be 6000 years. 0:34:52.210 --> 0:34:56.090 So 5000 years of Chinese history is not a problem. Lastly, 0:34:56.130 --> 0:34:59.610 a good book. Yes, there is one by Doctor Stephen 0:34:59.610 --> 0:35:04.930 Leston the Bible in World History How History and Scripture intersect. 0:35:05.170 --> 0:35:06.370 From 2011. 0:35:06.370 --> 0:35:09.690 All right. Interesting question. And I appreciate that resource that 0:35:09.690 --> 0:35:11.850 you were able to provide. Here's a question from Ken, 0:35:11.850 --> 0:35:14.710 who takes us to Genesis 219. Got a lot of 0:35:14.710 --> 0:35:18.149 Genesis type questions today. Verse 19 of chapter two says 0:35:18.150 --> 0:35:21.230 that out of the ground God created the fowls of 0:35:21.230 --> 0:35:23.629 the air and the beasts of the field. So were 0:35:23.630 --> 0:35:25.910 the sea creatures created out of nothing. 0:35:26.430 --> 0:35:28.630 That's a great question, Ken. I'm sorry. I don't know 0:35:28.630 --> 0:35:32.629 the answer. We're not told exactly. But we see that 0:35:32.630 --> 0:35:35.750 God can create out of nothing, and he can create 0:35:35.790 --> 0:35:39.109 using something that he's previously made. So we come to 0:35:39.110 --> 0:35:42.830 Genesis 124. What do we find? God said, let the 0:35:42.830 --> 0:35:45.870 earth bring forth living creatures. This is similar to Genesis 0:35:45.870 --> 0:35:49.870 120 And God said, let the waters swarm with swarms 0:35:49.870 --> 0:35:54.190 of living creatures. So the commonality is God creates by 0:35:54.190 --> 0:35:56.230 his powerful command. 0:35:56.390 --> 0:35:58.629 Well, thank you, Jerry. And, you know, we have covered 0:35:58.630 --> 0:36:00.989 a lot of ground today, as we always do. And 0:36:00.989 --> 0:36:04.070 maybe you'd like to join this conversation with a question 0:36:04.070 --> 0:36:06.950 of your own. You're welcome to do that any old time. 0:36:06.950 --> 0:36:09.509 You can just email us at The Land and the 0:36:09.550 --> 0:36:14.020 book at. That's a mouthful. Let me slow it down. 0:36:14.340 --> 0:36:19.859 The land and the book at Moody's. You may well 0:36:19.900 --> 0:36:22.540 know that we've got a podcast at our website for 0:36:22.540 --> 0:36:24.779 you to take advantage of that if you're not already. 0:36:25.020 --> 0:36:27.140 More importantly, we'd love for you to share us with 0:36:27.140 --> 0:36:30.420 a friend. You know, there's no advertising budget here, and 0:36:30.420 --> 0:36:32.739 you're letting somebody else know about the podcast is a 0:36:32.739 --> 0:36:35.700 great endorsement and we'd appreciate you doing that. Again, you'll 0:36:35.700 --> 0:36:40.100 find the podcast at The Land and the book.org. Charlie 0:36:40.100 --> 0:36:42.420 Dyer's devotional is coming up next here on the land 0:36:42.420 --> 0:36:57.779 and the book. Hope you stick around. We're sure glad 0:36:57.780 --> 0:36:59.939 for your company today at the Land and the book. 0:36:59.980 --> 0:37:02.540 You've got lots of choices and you're spending time with 0:37:02.540 --> 0:37:05.900 us and we say thank you. In a recent visit 0:37:05.900 --> 0:37:09.540 out to the Boston area, I remember visiting the bridge 0:37:09.820 --> 0:37:11.810 from which the shot that was heard around the around 0:37:11.810 --> 0:37:14.610 the world was fired the start of the American Revolution. 0:37:14.610 --> 0:37:17.210 There's a a statue there. And there was an inscription 0:37:17.210 --> 0:37:19.850 on that statue I read, and boy, it really, really 0:37:19.850 --> 0:37:22.450 kind of tugged at my heart. But Charlie, your devotional 0:37:22.450 --> 0:37:25.210 is about an inscription of a different type. Is that right? 0:37:25.250 --> 0:37:27.730 It is. It's one that goes back much earlier in 0:37:27.730 --> 0:37:30.450 time and I think is incredibly relevant for those of 0:37:30.450 --> 0:37:31.450 us who love the Bible. 0:37:31.450 --> 0:37:33.250 We're looking forward to your devotional, which we're going to 0:37:33.250 --> 0:37:35.969 get to after this Holy Land experience. Listen. 0:37:40.130 --> 0:37:43.009 Hi. I'm fearless and I cherish this Holy Land experience 0:37:43.010 --> 0:37:46.730 because it confirms that everything in Scripture makes sense down 0:37:46.730 --> 0:37:49.410 to the smallest detail. Doctor Dyer took us up to 0:37:49.450 --> 0:37:51.770 the top of Mount Carmel, where Elijah and our Lord 0:37:51.810 --> 0:37:54.530 took care of the priests of Baal. And then Scripture 0:37:54.530 --> 0:37:58.210 reports that Elijah scampered down the mountain and beat Ahab home. 0:37:58.730 --> 0:38:01.169 How can that happen? Seeing the terrain, I could very 0:38:01.170 --> 0:38:05.170 well understand. I could probably do it myself. We visited Engedi, 0:38:05.210 --> 0:38:09.690 where Saul and his thousands of troops chased after David 0:38:09.690 --> 0:38:12.719 for months and months. And you think he should be 0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:14.719 able to find David? But I saw the holes in 0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:17.359 the rocks and the cracks and the ruggedness of the terrain, 0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:20.880 and it all made sense. And then just yesterday, I 0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:24.719 believe we visited Ayla Valley and stopped at this inconsequential 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:30.239 and very inconvenient place. And Doctor Dyer read scripture and 0:38:30.239 --> 0:38:32.799 painted the picture of how the Philistine army came up 0:38:32.800 --> 0:38:35.040 from the sea and covered the hills on one side 0:38:35.040 --> 0:38:38.880 of the valley. And Saul and the troops were protecting 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:44.240 the road leading to Bethlehem and Jerusalem. And how David 0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:47.080 walked into the brook and picked up his five smooth stones. 0:38:47.080 --> 0:38:50.359 And the brook still has an adequate number of smooth stones. 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:57.480 All right, Charlie, take us to your continuing series, 11 inscriptions. 0:38:57.640 --> 0:39:00.359 Yeah. And today we're beginning this multi-part series, which I'm 0:39:00.360 --> 0:39:04.000 calling 11 inscriptions to the Bible. We'll be exploring 11 0:39:04.000 --> 0:39:08.360 archaeological finds, written inscriptions that have given us new insight 0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:11.870 into our understanding of God's Word. So lace up your boots, 0:39:11.910 --> 0:39:15.670 grab your shovel. Don't forget your Indiana Jones fedora. Today's 0:39:15.670 --> 0:39:18.950 journey takes us to the plaza just outside the main 0:39:18.950 --> 0:39:22.109 gate of the ancient city of Dan. As we walk 0:39:22.110 --> 0:39:23.549 up to the gate, I have so many things I 0:39:23.550 --> 0:39:26.790 want to show you. For example, notice how we came 0:39:26.790 --> 0:39:29.029 through the outer gate into the courtyard, and you were 0:39:29.030 --> 0:39:32.750 forced to turn to the left before reaching the inner gate. Now, 0:39:32.750 --> 0:39:35.910 how many of you listening are right handed? Well, you 0:39:35.910 --> 0:39:39.230 just died. And think about it. Right handed warriors carry 0:39:39.230 --> 0:39:41.549 their sword in their right hand and their shield in 0:39:41.550 --> 0:39:44.509 their left. As you came in the gate and turned left, 0:39:44.550 --> 0:39:47.870 your shield is on the wrong side. It won't protect 0:39:47.870 --> 0:39:50.109 you from the archers shooting down at you from the 0:39:50.110 --> 0:39:54.270 wall inside. No wonder the Bible singled out left handed warriors. 0:39:54.750 --> 0:39:56.830 And before we turn around, take note of the small 0:39:56.830 --> 0:40:00.430 platform here in this inner courtyard. This was the spot 0:40:00.430 --> 0:40:03.469 where the local governor would sit to judge. We read 0:40:03.469 --> 0:40:05.790 in the Bible about the elders sitting in the gates, 0:40:05.790 --> 0:40:09.140 and about the kings setting up their thrones in the gate. Well, 0:40:09.180 --> 0:40:12.820 here's a real life example. This courtyard was the courthouse 0:40:12.820 --> 0:40:15.900 for the ancient city of Dan. Now follow me back 0:40:15.900 --> 0:40:19.100 outside the gate. As you can see, the archaeologists also 0:40:19.100 --> 0:40:22.140 excavated out here in this broad plaza. And this is 0:40:22.140 --> 0:40:25.580 where the first inscription in our series was uncovered. As 0:40:25.580 --> 0:40:28.660 the archaeologists were digging, they found a small fragment of 0:40:28.660 --> 0:40:30.900 a monumental pillar that had been set up in this 0:40:30.900 --> 0:40:34.339 courtyard area. And then another piece was discovered and another. 0:40:34.620 --> 0:40:37.419 What was even more amazing was the fact that there 0:40:37.420 --> 0:40:40.819 was writing on this pillar commemorating a military victory by 0:40:40.820 --> 0:40:44.180 one of Israel's enemies. But later the pillar was smashed 0:40:44.180 --> 0:40:47.500 and buried, most likely by the Israelites when they retook 0:40:47.500 --> 0:40:50.580 the city. The inscription was written by a king who 0:40:50.580 --> 0:40:54.380 worshiped the god Hadad. Hadad was another name for Baal, 0:40:54.380 --> 0:40:57.940 but more importantly it was the chief god of Aram, 0:40:57.980 --> 0:41:01.060 modern day Syria, and the king of Aram, who ruled 0:41:01.060 --> 0:41:05.180 in Damascus, was known as the son of Hadad Ben Hadad. 0:41:05.460 --> 0:41:08.290 This inscription was Was placed at the city of Dan 0:41:08.330 --> 0:41:11.930 by one of Syria's kings. But which one and when 0:41:11.930 --> 0:41:15.250 was it written? In the inscription, the king names two 0:41:15.250 --> 0:41:17.810 of his enemies, though parts of the names are missing 0:41:17.810 --> 0:41:20.890 enough remains to fill in the blanks. Here's the boast 0:41:20.890 --> 0:41:24.489 made by the king of Syria I killed Joram, son 0:41:24.489 --> 0:41:27.930 of Ahab, King of Israel, and I killed Ahaziah, son 0:41:27.930 --> 0:41:31.209 of Jehoram, king of the house of David. And with 0:41:31.210 --> 0:41:35.089 that statement were taken to a very specific, tumultuous period 0:41:35.090 --> 0:41:37.570 in the history of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. 0:41:38.090 --> 0:41:40.810 Ahab and his wife Jezebel are two of the most 0:41:40.810 --> 0:41:44.250 evil individuals in the Bible. They made Baal the official 0:41:44.250 --> 0:41:47.130 god of the northern kingdom of Israel, and by giving 0:41:47.130 --> 0:41:49.810 their daughter in marriage to the king of Judah, they 0:41:49.810 --> 0:41:53.530 exported Baal worship to that kingdom as well. The Bible 0:41:53.530 --> 0:41:56.969 says King Ahaziah of Judah walked in the ways of 0:41:56.969 --> 0:41:59.850 the house of Ahab. The king of Israel and the 0:41:59.850 --> 0:42:02.770 king of Judah were not only united in marriage, they 0:42:02.770 --> 0:42:06.120 also shared a commitment to follow the god Baal. And 0:42:06.120 --> 0:42:09.040 that's when the true God of Israel called for a change. 0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:11.640 The two kings of Israel and Judah went to fight 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.520 against the king of Syria at Ramoth Gilead on the 0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:18.120 Golan Heights. And the Bible tells us that the Arameans 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.279 wounded Joram, the king of Israel. So Joram returned to 0:42:21.280 --> 0:42:24.480 Jezreel to recover from the wounds. And King Hezekiah of 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:28.399 Judah also went to Jezreel to see Joram. Picture the 0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:31.400 scene in the camp of the Syrians. An officer rushes 0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:34.160 into the tent of the king. Your Majesty, we just 0:42:34.160 --> 0:42:36.799 got this report from the front. Our archers hit the 0:42:36.800 --> 0:42:40.080 King of Israel. We saw him slumped down in the chariot, 0:42:40.080 --> 0:42:43.359 which then raced from the battlefield. We're not certain, but 0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:46.520 we believe we might have killed him. The king then asks, 0:42:46.520 --> 0:42:49.120 and what about his ally, the King of Judah? We're 0:42:49.120 --> 0:42:51.600 not sure. It's possible. He was also hit in that 0:42:51.600 --> 0:42:54.600 volley of arrows and taken from the field. His chariot 0:42:54.640 --> 0:42:58.040 is nowhere to be seen. In the confusion of battle, 0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:01.600 one king is definitely wounded and another goes missing. The 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:03.839 reports are sketchy, but it bodes well for the King 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:06.739 of Syria, and the news only seems to get better. 0:43:06.940 --> 0:43:10.420 The military commander of Israel's forces, a man named Jehu, 0:43:10.460 --> 0:43:14.460 is seen leaving the battlefield and driving his chariot furiously 0:43:14.500 --> 0:43:17.980 across the Jordan Valley, back toward the city of Jezreel. 0:43:18.500 --> 0:43:20.940 The king of Syria doesn't know what's taking place, but 0:43:20.940 --> 0:43:24.940 with the opposing kings possibly killed and the general racing away, 0:43:24.980 --> 0:43:27.660 he's quick to press the battle. In fact, the Bible 0:43:27.660 --> 0:43:31.939 reports that Haziel overpowered the Israelites throughout their territory east 0:43:31.940 --> 0:43:34.900 of the Jordan, in all the land of Gilead. And 0:43:34.900 --> 0:43:36.899 this is also when he must have captured the city 0:43:36.900 --> 0:43:39.940 of Dan. The Bible tells us what really happened to 0:43:39.940 --> 0:43:42.580 the kings of Israel and Judah. They were killed by 0:43:42.580 --> 0:43:45.819 Jehu when he reached the city of Jezreel, not by 0:43:45.820 --> 0:43:48.460 the King of Syria, but since the king of Syria 0:43:48.460 --> 0:43:50.980 knew his archers had wounded the King of Israel, he 0:43:50.980 --> 0:43:53.380 claimed the credit when he heard the king was dead. 0:43:53.739 --> 0:43:57.940 We know exactly when this all took place. 841 BC. 0:43:58.380 --> 0:44:01.219 And once we understand the historical background, we can now 0:44:01.219 --> 0:44:04.930 see how the inscription and the Bible fit hand in glove, 0:44:05.090 --> 0:44:08.650 each helping us better understand what was really happening at 0:44:08.650 --> 0:44:11.930 the time. But here's the real significance of the inscription. 0:44:12.250 --> 0:44:14.890 In it, the ruler over the kingdom of Judah was 0:44:14.890 --> 0:44:18.410 called the King of the House of David. Now, why 0:44:18.410 --> 0:44:22.250 is that important? Well, many have claimed that David never existed, 0:44:22.290 --> 0:44:25.290 that he was a mythological ruler invented much later in 0:44:25.290 --> 0:44:29.129 Israel's history. According to the Bible's account, David died in 0:44:29.130 --> 0:44:33.530 970 B.C. here, just over a century after his death, 0:44:33.690 --> 0:44:37.689 is an inscription clearly identifying the rulers of Judah as 0:44:37.690 --> 0:44:41.530 descendants of the House of David. This inscription might very 0:44:41.530 --> 0:44:45.489 well be the original MythBusters. By showing the accuracy and 0:44:45.489 --> 0:44:48.690 historicity of the Bible and the silliness of the idea 0:44:48.690 --> 0:44:52.170 that David was just a myth, it's even more significant 0:44:52.170 --> 0:44:55.009 in light of God's words to David in second Samuel seven. 0:44:55.290 --> 0:44:57.890 David wanted to build a house for God, but God 0:44:57.890 --> 0:45:00.529 didn't allow him to do so. However, just a few 0:45:00.530 --> 0:45:04.560 verses later, God uses the same expression to describe the 0:45:04.560 --> 0:45:07.880 dynasty he would give to David. The Lord will establish 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:10.759 a house for you. Your house and your kingdom will 0:45:10.760 --> 0:45:14.440 endure forever before me. The inscription found at Tel Dan 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:17.239 mentions the name of the King of Israel, but it 0:45:17.239 --> 0:45:20.560 then identifies Judah's king as the king from the house 0:45:20.719 --> 0:45:24.279 or dynasty of David. But what does any of this 0:45:24.280 --> 0:45:26.640 have to do with us today? Let me end with 0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:31.239 two quick thoughts. First, the more archaeologists uncover, the more 0:45:31.239 --> 0:45:34.080 reliable the Bible is shown to be. The House of 0:45:34.080 --> 0:45:37.759 David inscription is just one more example showing you can 0:45:37.760 --> 0:45:41.560 trust the Bible. And second, this inscription also reminds us 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:43.839 that the Bible is accurate when it says there are 0:45:43.840 --> 0:45:47.520 consequences for actions. Two kings chose to turn away from 0:45:47.520 --> 0:45:50.680 God and God judged them for it. We not only 0:45:50.680 --> 0:45:53.480 can trust the Bible, we also need to listen carefully 0:45:53.480 --> 0:45:57.200 to what it says and live our lives accordingly. Now, 0:45:57.200 --> 0:45:59.840 as I go through this series, I'll also post photos 0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:03.110 of these fines on our land in the book Facebook page. 0:46:03.270 --> 0:46:05.950 So take some time to go to Facebook, explore the 0:46:05.950 --> 0:46:08.990 site and see what these discoveries look like up close 0:46:08.989 --> 0:46:09.870 and personal. 0:46:10.150 --> 0:46:12.549 Thank you Charlie. The first in your new series on 0:46:12.550 --> 0:46:16.310 biblical inscriptions. I'm looking forward to more. And if you've 0:46:16.310 --> 0:46:18.350 not been to our website lately, we do encourage you 0:46:18.350 --> 0:46:20.870 to give it a visit. We're found at The Land 0:46:20.870 --> 0:46:25.310 and the book. That's the land and the book. Org. 0:46:25.510 --> 0:46:30.030 You can find information about today's guest, past guest, future programs, books, 0:46:30.030 --> 0:46:32.630 Charlie's written, and a whole lot more. That's the land 0:46:32.630 --> 0:46:36.989 and the book. Sure appreciate having you with us today, 0:46:36.989 --> 0:46:38.469 and I hope you'll share us with a friend. Let 0:46:38.469 --> 0:46:40.870 them know how they can listen, either on this station 0:46:40.870 --> 0:46:44.110 or by our podcast at The Land and the book 0:46:45.830 --> 0:46:48.790 for our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer. I'm 0:46:48.790 --> 0:46:51.469 John Gallagher and the land and the book is a 0:46:51.469 --> 0:46:54.990 production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.