S1: When were the first maps of the Holy Land created?
S1: And what tools did those ancient cartographers use? How do
S1: today's maps of the region influence the Arab-Israeli conflict? Well,
S1: that's our focus coming up. As always, we'll take plenty
S1: of time to answer your Bible questions. Plus bring you
S1: the latest headlines from the Middle East. That's all ahead
S1: this week on the program we call the Land and
S1: the book. Hey, welcome. If you're new, welcome. If you're
S1: not new, we're glad to have you back. I'm John Gieger,
S1: glad to connect as well with your friend and mine,
S1: Middle East expert Doctor Charlie Dyer. And this week, Charlie,
S1: it just feels like the Middle East has once again
S1: been shaken like a snow globe.
S2: Oh, John. It has. You know, I'm a news junkie,
S2: and I found myself going back again and again just
S2: to find out the events that are happening are moving
S2: at such a rapid pace. Uh, but yeah, it's incredible.
S2: It's like seeing all the the snow flying around in
S2: that globe.
S1: Well, as we zoom out just a bit, we have
S1: to ask ourselves, at this season of the year, what
S1: does Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus? Some
S1: might remember the story from the book of Exodus, but
S1: there's so much more to it. Did you know that
S1: the Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? And not
S1: only did Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it also
S1: foreshadowed his death on the cross for our redemption.
S2: That's right, John. In fact, Jewish people have been keeping
S2: the feast of Passover for thousands of years. Understanding the
S2: history and importance of this holiday will help you connect
S2: better with your Jewish friends and neighbors. And what better
S2: way is there to learn about Passover than to experience
S2: a Passover Seder yourself? If you've never celebrated Passover, our
S2: friends at Life in Messiah would love to partner with
S2: you in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their staff
S2: engage churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah in
S2: the Passover Seder, allowing participants to taste and see the
S2: redemption story. Now, if you're interested in having someone come
S2: lead a Seder in your area, visit Life in Messiah
S2: Org and click on the radio button there to learn more.
S2: That's life in Messiah.
S1: Thank you Charlie. No doubt at the center of the
S1: very swirled up snow globe situation in the Middle East
S1: is the ongoing conflict, the drama with the hostages between
S1: Hamas and Israel. And while, at least in theory, there's
S1: a ceasefire in hostage exchange in place between Israel and Hamas,
S1: everything took a dramatic turn on Monday when Hamas announced
S1: it was suspending the further release of hostages. What reason
S1: did they give and what's been happening since then?
S2: Yeah, Hamas announced it was suspending the release of hostages
S2: until further notice because of what it called Israeli violations.
S2: In reality, Hamas is manipulating the hostages and the negotiations
S2: for its own cynical political advantages, trying to use Israel's
S2: anguish over the deteriorating physical condition of those hostages to
S2: force Israel to make additional concessions. The expected protests in
S2: Israel did take place, but then something very unexpected happened.
S2: President Trump issued his own stark warning to Hamas. He
S2: demanded that all hostages be released at once by noon,
S2: February 15th. Otherwise, he said, it will be a different ballgame. Now,
S2: he used some other words as well, but we'll leave
S2: those unsaid right here. His clear message, though, was that
S2: he would give Israel the green light to resume the war,
S2: to eliminate Hamas if all the hostages aren't released. Hamas
S2: responded by saying the president's threats have no value. Israel
S2: called up reserves and sent additional soldiers to the Gaza
S2: border area. Prime Minister Netanyahu said Israel would resume fighting
S2: if the hostages aren't released and the cease fire deal collapses.
S2: And that's where the situation stands as we record this
S2: program before the actual arrival of that deadline. In spite
S2: of all the cheering and jeering and hand-wringing and and
S2: threats that have been going about. Here's what we do
S2: know right now. A majority of Israelis really don't want
S2: to go back to war. They want the hostages to
S2: come home, even if it means allowing Hamas to remain
S2: in control of Gaza. Their fear is that renewed fighting
S2: will result in the deaths of the remaining hostages who
S2: are still alive, along with the deaths of additional soldiers. Hamas,
S2: in spite of its tough talk, also doesn't really want
S2: renewed fighting because this time Israel won't be restrained by
S2: the US to hold back. They'll push for the total
S2: destruction of Hamas's political and military infrastructure. Israel has provided
S2: an off ramp to the current crisis by saying it
S2: would continue to adhere to the ceasefire deal if Hamas
S2: releases the sixth group of hostages on Saturday, in accordance
S2: with the terms of the agreement. And that leaves us
S2: with all eyes on Hamas to see what they'll do
S2: this weekend and then on into the future.
S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book.
S1: Our host, doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Yeager. We're looking
S1: at current events from the Middle East this week. Lebanon
S1: has formed a new government, the first since 2022. How
S1: important is this milestone and could it help bring about
S1: peace between Lebanon and Israel?
S2: Well, the formation of this new government is a good
S2: thing and it comes with some very positive signs. You know,
S2: Lebanon's government is arranged along religious lines. The president is
S2: always a maronite Christian. The speaker of the parliament is
S2: always a Shiite Muslim, and the prime minister is always
S2: a Sunni Muslim. In 2008, an agreement was reached that
S2: allowed any one of those three, in essence, to have
S2: veto power in the Council of Ministers, the the executive
S2: body of the country. Well, Hezbollah effectively used that power
S2: to hold the country hostage by blocking issues that required
S2: the two thirds vote or more to pass. Over the
S2: past six years, Lebanon has experienced several traumatic events, beginning
S2: in 2019, with the collapse in the value of its
S2: currency that led to a banking crisis and a debt crisis. Then,
S2: just one year later in 2020, there was a massive
S2: explosion in the port of Beirut that killed at least 218,
S2: injured 7000, and destroyed a major portion of the area
S2: around the harbor. Most assumed the explosion was caused by
S2: Hezbollah storing ammonium nitrate at the port. But Hezbollah has
S2: blocked an investigation. Finally, over the past year, Hezbollah fired
S2: rockets into Israel, and that led Israel to respond with
S2: devastating airstrikes on Hezbollah's sites and leadership in Lebanon, severely
S2: weakening the group but also impacting the infrastructure of the country.
S2: The US and Europe pushed to have Lebanon form a
S2: new government without Hezbollah's stranglehold. And apparently that has now succeeded. Now,
S2: will it bring about peace between Israel and Lebanon? Probably not.
S2: At least not anytime soon. Iran is still trying to
S2: rearm Hezbollah until Iran's influence is removed. It seems unlikely
S2: that Hezbollah will sit by and allow Lebanon to make
S2: peace with Israel. However, if Iran's influence is reduced and
S2: if the latest conflict with Hamas can be resolved, and
S2: if Israel is then able to make peace with Saudi Arabia,
S2: then peace between Israel and Lebanon might just follow. But, John,
S2: there are a lot of ifs in that pathway to peace.
S1: Well, I heard a lot. I didn't count them, but
S1: there's a lot there. Well, here's an interesting story. For
S1: the first time in over two years, Israel has officially
S1: entered a period of drought. What's been happening weather wise?
S1: And has this created any short term problems for the country?
S2: Yeah. Israel's water authority has publicly declared that the current
S2: winter is one of the most arid in recent years,
S2: and is on course to be the driest in a century.
S2: Israel's winter rainy season extends from October to March. But
S2: thus far they've only had one single heavy downpour. Up
S2: till this past weekend, the Sea of Galilee had risen
S2: less than one inch. And the flow of the Jordan
S2: River was the lowest since 1960. Now rainfall totals do
S2: totals do vary by region in northern Israel. Nazareth has
S2: only received about 70% of its normal year to date rainfall,
S2: or that's about 50% of what it would get for
S2: the annual total. Further south, though, along the coast those
S2: numbers dropped to 60% of the year to date rainfall
S2: and 45% of the total. In Jerusalem, it drops still more.
S2: They've only gotten 50% of the year to date average rainfall,
S2: and only a third of the year to date total
S2: annual rainfall. But there is a silver lining in this
S2: cloudless sky, John. Beginning last weekend and continuing on through
S2: this past Wednesday, a series of storms did move in
S2: from the Mediterranean, providing a little relief, and Israel's desalination
S2: plants continue to supply the country with water from the Mediterranean.
S2: Some of that's even being piped into the Sea of
S2: Galilee to help replenish it. Right now, the Sea of
S2: Galilee is holding steady at just over eight feet below
S2: the upper Red line, which is the lake's maximum capacity,
S2: and just over 5.5ft above the lower red line, which
S2: is the lowest level they ever want it to reach.
S2: Hopefully there'll be more storms on the horizon through this
S2: month and into early March to make up for the
S2: shortfall this fall. You know, God said rain is a blessing.
S2: And right now, the people in Israel are in fact,
S2: the entire region are hoping to receive some of that
S2: blessing before the dry summer months arrive, for sure.
S1: Our final story takes us to the beautiful Greek island
S1: of Santorini, which unfortunately has been experiencing a swarm of earthquakes.
S1: How serious is the threat facing the island and what
S1: potential impact could it have on surrounding countries?
S2: Yeah, this swarm. And so right now it's more than
S2: 12,000 earthquakes. It began on January 28th. It continues even
S2: as we're speaking. Scientists don't know if the swarm will
S2: simply cease on its own, or if it's leading up
S2: to a much larger earthquake in the near future. The
S2: good news, if there is any when it comes to earthquakes,
S2: is that these aren't volcanic earthquakes. A Santorini was one
S2: of the world's largest volcanic eruptions back in 1600 B.C.
S2: that caused the collapse of the Minoan civilization on Crete.
S2: But the greater risk right now with this one is
S2: that a major earthquake might generate a tsunami that could
S2: reach out across the region. Greece placed Santorini under a
S2: state of emergency. Turkey's Disaster and Emergency Management Authority is
S2: looking carefully at the coastline of Turkey, which is about
S2: 100 miles away, and Israel's National Security Council is looking
S2: as well, even though they're nearly 750 miles away. Uh,
S2: let's hope that these swarms of earthquakes subside without leading
S2: to a much larger earthquake in the near future. For
S2: the people on the island and for all the surrounding nations,
S2: holding their breath and hoping not to see that tsunami.
S1: And that's a look at current events. Up next, mapping
S1: the Holy Land. Insights into the first maps ever created
S1: on the land. And the book. When were the first
S1: maps of the Holy Land first drawn on paper? And
S1: what tools did those ancient cartographers really use? How did
S1: today's maps of the region influence the Arab-Israeli conflict? Well,
S1: that's our focus next. Welcome to the land and the
S1: book from Moody Radio. I'm John Gieger, inviting you into
S1: a conversation about mapping the Holy Land. What do you
S1: say we welcome our guest, Jean-Pierre Isbouts, along with Neil Asbury.
S1: He has coauthored Mapping the Holy Land An Illustrated Atlas.
S1: Jean-Pierre is a professor in the social Sciences PhD program
S1: at Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara, California, and an archaeologist, author, screenwriter,
S1: director and producer. I've looked at some of his work.
S1: It's a great collection, and we've got a lot of
S1: regard for what you're doing. With that, welcome to the
S1: land and the book, Jean-Pierre.
S3: John, it's my pleasure. Thank you.
S1: Well, what do we know about the oldest surviving maps
S1: of the Holy Land? How old are they? And what
S1: is their origin?
S3: Well, of course we we don't know exactly what maps
S3: exist during the time of the great kingdoms of Israel
S3: and Judah. The oldest map that's in the book is
S3: actually a Babylonian map of the world from the second
S3: millennium B.C. so in clay it was a clay tablet.
S3: So unfortunately, once paper starts to be used, paper is
S3: very brittle. It's very vulnerable. And so not much of
S3: that has survived. But we do have reconstructions of these
S3: earliest maps and during the Roman time. So let's say
S3: this is the time of the first century, the time
S3: of Jesus. In fact, the oldest map in the book
S3: was created by a Roman geographer called Pomponius Mela, and
S3: he created a map of the world in which Palestina,
S3: as it was called in those days, and Judea, are
S3: very clearly marked at the center of the map. And
S3: that's the map we're very proud of. And that's really
S3: at the heart of the book. And from that point on,
S3: we chart how the developments in the Holy Land from
S3: the Roman period, from the time of Jesus all through
S3: the Persian conquest and the Muslim conquest, have affected the
S3: way people imagine the Holy Land, especially Christian pilgrims who
S3: use these maps to come to the Holy Land.
S1: Okay, so you mentioned the difficulty of of hanging on
S1: to paper copies of these maps, but how were these
S1: oldest of the oldest that are still extant survive? How
S1: were they preserved? Time and elements are not friends to
S1: printed things, as we've already discussed.
S3: No. That's true. And we have to thank really the scribes,
S3: first of the period in Spain. Andalusia. When Spain was
S3: basically ruled by Muslims, and they built large libraries who
S3: basically preserved the great texts of Greek and Roman authors. They,
S3: of course, transcribed them and copied them, and from them
S3: from these great libraries in Al-Andalus, which is Andalusia today.
S3: They were transferred to the monasteries of the Great Western Europe,
S3: the Benedictine, all these other great monasteries that emerged during
S3: the Dark Ages and became really centers of European culture.
S3: And they preserved these maps. And so the most important
S3: map which is throughout the book is the map created
S3: by a geographer called Ptolemy in the second century, who
S3: created maps of the world, and particularly the Holy Land,
S3: which would be copied for centuries to come.
S1: An intriguing journey to the Holy Land, as told by
S1: the rare maps and prints that we have today That's
S1: mapping the Holy Land. Our conversation on the land and
S1: the book with our guest, doctor Jean-Pierre Isbouts. What tools
S1: did ancient cartographers use? They had no laser measuring things.
S1: No views from space, no Google Maps, certainly. What did
S1: they use?
S3: They used what we call portolan charts, which are basically
S3: maps that are drawn by mariners. You know, obviously, particularly
S3: in the second century, there were many scheduled services by
S3: ship throughout the Mediterranean. It's amazing. You know, you could
S3: book a seat on a ship from Alexandria to Rome
S3: even as far as Britain. And these scheduled services obviously
S3: required captains who knew how to navigate their way across
S3: the Mediterranean. And so we believe that it was these
S3: trade portolan charts that these captains used all the way,
S3: in fact, to what we believe is Southeast Asia. Roman
S3: traders were believed to go as far as India. Some
S3: believe as far as Vietnam and even China, where the
S3: Romans were customers of silk. Chinese silk made its appearance
S3: in the Roman Empire in the second century AD. So
S3: thanks to these great trade routes that we have, the
S3: the great maps by Ptolemy and so many other great
S3: geographers that were to come afterwards.
S1: In addition to the very colorful and plentiful maps in
S1: this book, I noticed you do a remarkable job of
S1: explaining in your text thousands of years of history in
S1: a relatively few number of pages. I was just amazed.
S1: I take my hat off to you, Jean-Pierre. But how
S1: difficult was that part of the process?
S3: Well, I've been very blessed, John. As a historian, I
S3: was asked in 2006 by National Geographic to write a
S3: book called The Biblical World, which describes the world of
S3: the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament from its geographical, political,
S3: social viewpoint. And I had the full services of the
S3: cartography section of National Geographic. That book, The Biblical World,
S3: became a worldwide bestseller. I don't know who was more surprised,
S3: my editor or myself, but in any case, they printed
S3: close to half a million copies of that book. It's
S3: been translated in many languages, and since then I wrote
S3: many other books for National Geographic about In the footsteps
S3: of Jesus and so forth. So I've become very, very
S3: obviously very familiar with the history of the Holy Land. But,
S3: you know, John, my goal is always to make texts
S3: like these accessible to the general reader. These are not
S3: scholarly works. I mean, I write scholarly articles, but maybe
S3: two guys and a dog will read those. It's the
S3: right books for that. Everyone can enjoy that. A family
S3: can gather around and browse through these beautiful illustrations and
S3: and read the text and enrich their lives. And particularly
S3: for Christians, it's it's so important for us to know
S3: how the Holy Land shaped the stories of the Gospels
S3: and everything that was to follow. So that's really my
S3: target audience.
S1: Our guest today on the land and the book is
S1: Jean-Pierre Isbouts. He has co-authored Mapping the Holy Land An
S1: Illustrated Atlas. When did the idea of including a sense
S1: of distance, a scale, you know, one inch equals x
S1: amount of meters or miles? What did that become commonplace?
S3: That became commonplace in the Renaissance? So what you see
S3: in the Renaissance are two things. You see, first of all,
S3: the invention of the printing press, which is very, very important.
S3: In fact, the Reformation could not have succeeded as it did,
S3: were it not that the words of Martin Luther and
S3: John Calvin were printed in booklets and spread rapidly throughout
S3: the Empire, and second of all, nautical charts and nautical
S3: measuring instruments were introduced in the 16th century, particularly developed
S3: in Florence during the time of the Medicis, who ruled
S3: Florence in the 16th and 17th centuries. And that's when
S3: you see that the compass and other important instruments were developed,
S3: which allowed people to measure these distances. And in fact,
S3: the first maps that use these distances are the ones
S3: from the 17th century, which we call the golden era
S3: of cartography, when you can really see rhumb lines and
S3: other ways of measuring the distance between these various territories,
S3: which of course was very important. If you planned a journey,
S3: you wanted to know how much food and water you
S3: were supposed to bring along. So yeah, that's really an
S3: invention of the Renaissance.
S1: Have the ways that we use maps evolved over the
S1: over the years with the increasing sophistication and accuracy, or no.
S1: We've pretty much always used the maps the way we've
S1: used maps.
S3: Oh, no. No, John, you're absolutely right. It changed a lot.
S3: I mean, as I said, first there were documents for trade. Then,
S3: you see, in the wake of the Reformation, it is very,
S3: very interesting, you see that Bibles are being printed now
S3: with the printing press, and it is specifically Protestant Bibles,
S3: not Catholic Bibles, but Protestant Bibles, who first of all
S3: printed the Gospels in the vernacular, whatever local language you know,
S3: you might find. And second of all, it is these
S3: Protestant Bibles who begin to print maps with the text
S3: of the Gospels and of the Old Testament, because they
S3: were really keen that people understood the social and geographical
S3: and the historical context of the stories. And one very
S3: prominent feature of Protestant Bibles is the Exodus, and they
S3: are countless maps, beautiful maps, hand-colored in many cases of
S3: the route of the exodus from Egypt. Because just as
S3: Moses led his people from Egypt into the Promised Land,
S3: so did Martin Luther and John Calvin, and countless people
S3: like them lead Christians away from the papacy into the
S3: Promised Land. Or at least that was the view of
S3: the Protestants. And then Catholic Bibles finally began to follow
S3: that example. And so, you see, starting in the 18th century,
S3: that Catholic Bibles begin to include maps and engravings of
S3: the Second Temple and important locations where these events took
S3: place as well. And then by the 19th century, a
S3: total change, the Christian connotation of the maps of the
S3: Holy Land, including the placement of the 12 tribes of
S3: Israel sort of falls away, and now maps gain far
S3: more political character. The geographers who created these are really
S3: more interested in the political and the geographical features, because
S3: guess what? This is the time of the construction of
S3: the Suez Canal. And the British primarily were very concerned
S3: that the surrounding territory, including what was then called Ottoman Palestine,
S3: would be accessible to troops in the event of trouble.
S3: And when they needed to protect the Suez Canal. And
S3: those are the maps that General Allenby used as he
S3: conquered Palestine and entered Jerusalem in 1917, near the end
S3: of the World War one. And, of course, for the
S3: rest of that period, until 1947, Palestine was British ruled territory.
S3: And that gets us into the modern era.
S1: Jean-Pierre Isbouts has co-authored Mapping the Holy Land An Illustrated Atlas.
S1: He is a professor in the Social Sciences PhD program
S1: of Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara, California, and an archaeologist, author,
S1: a screenwriter, director and producer. Let me ask you, how
S1: do you look at today's maps when you try to
S1: process the Arab-Israeli conflict? Do those maps somehow influence that conflict?
S3: Oh, absolutely. I mean, maps have become crucial. And in fact, John,
S3: this is interesting because originally the book was supposed to
S3: end in the 19th century, and then the October 7th
S3: invasion of Israel by Hamas took place. And we placed
S3: the call to our publisher, Apollo Publishers, and we said,
S3: we need to end this book now. We can't just
S3: stop in the 19th century because maps are so critical. Now,
S3: as we decide, you know, how do Palestinians and Israelis
S3: can live in peace together? And they agreed. They postponed
S3: the release of the of the book. And so I
S3: wrote a last chapter with Neil. Which brings us all
S3: up to date on the situation, including Gaza in the
S3: 21st century. And the most important thing is that we
S3: include the map from 1947, when the United Nations. Agreed
S3: by majority on the division of Palestine into a Jewish
S3: state and an Arab state. This was the two state
S3: solution that we're still talking about. And it was agreed
S3: in 1947 that this would take place. And we have
S3: that map in there and the Jewish Agency led by
S3: David Ben-Gurion. They weren't terribly happy with the way the
S3: division was made, but okay, they accepted it. And thus
S3: the State of Israel was born. The Arab League, on
S3: the other hand, did not agree, and as a result,
S3: the Arab states invaded what was then the newborn state
S3: of Israel really trying to push the Israelis into the
S3: Mediterranean Sea. And of course, as we know, that war
S3: was won by Israel. 60% of the land allotted to
S3: the Arab territories were taken. And guess what? This is
S3: something that most people don't realize. The West Bank and
S3: Gaza were then not given to the Palestinian people, as
S3: the United Nations had ruled. They were taken. They were annexed.
S3: The West Bank was annexed by Jordan or Transjordan, as
S3: it was called at the time, and Gaza was taken
S3: as property by Egypt. And that's why the Palestinian people
S3: never had a chance. And often people blame a lot
S3: of people for the conflict. But it was really the
S3: fact that the Arab states did not turn over the
S3: West Bank and Gaza, which were the two remnants of
S3: the Arab state decreed by the United Nations, back to
S3: the To the Palestinians, they were taken. And that's really
S3: the seed of all of the conflicts that have come
S3: ever since.
S1: Well, so much to learn, so much to look at
S1: in this book, Mapping the Holy Land. We encourage you
S1: to check it out. There's a link at our website. Jean-Pierre,
S1: it's been a great conversation. I love your enthusiasm and
S1: thanks for keeping it simple.
S3: John, this is wonderful. Thanks for having me.
S1: You betcha. Up next on the land and the book
S1: A return to Your Bible questions. I'm looking forward to
S1: the answers next. Right here. I'm not even sure it's
S1: possible to open the Bible and read more than one
S1: or 2 or 3 verses and not have a question
S1: of some kind. I am John Gager. At least that's
S1: my experience. Welcome back to segment three of The Land
S1: and the book, and your questions are very much at
S1: the front and center of what we're about to do.
S1: They come to us via email. I'll share that email
S1: address later on. First, though, a quick thought. What does
S1: Passover mean for us as believers in Jesus? Some might
S1: remember the story from the book of Exodus, but there's
S1: so much more to it. For example, did you know
S1: that the Last Supper was actually a Passover meal? Not
S1: only did Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, it's also
S1: foreshadowing his death on the cross for our redemption. Jewish
S1: people have been observing the feast of Passover for thousands
S1: of years, and understanding the history and importance of this
S1: holiday will help you better connect with your Jewish friends
S1: and neighbors. And what better way is there to learn
S1: about Passover than to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If
S1: you have never celebrated Passover. Well, our friends at Life
S1: in Messiah would love to partner with you in hosting
S1: a Seder experience. Every year, their staff engage churches and
S1: small groups in an interactive Messiah in the Passover Seder,
S1: allowing participants to taste and see the redemption story. So
S1: if you're interested in interested in having somebody come lead
S1: a Seder in your area, visit Life in Messiah and
S1: click on the Moody Radio button there to learn more. Again,
S1: that's life in Messiah with me in the studio, Doctor
S1: Gerald Peterman of the Moody Bible Institute faculty. How's your
S1: day going, sir?
S4: Well, I've avoided frostbite, so I'm doing well.
S1: All right, let's dig into our questions with this one
S1: from Stan, who takes us to Exodus 2319. Where it
S1: says the first of the first fruits of thy land.
S1: Thou shalt bring into the house of the Lord thy God.
S1: Thou shalt not see the a kid in his mother's milk.
S1: And Exodus 3426 says, the first of the first fruits
S1: of thy land, thou shalt bring it to the house
S1: of the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not see the
S1: kid in his mother's milk. All right. He wants to know.
S1: Don't boil a kid in his mother's milk. Why did
S1: God have Moses write this? Can your Jewish expertise help
S1: me answer this? And I think it it might be
S1: a way to avoid prions disease. Prions only comes from
S1: eating infected meats. Is it possible that the DNA in
S1: the mother and the baby could become infected, creating mad
S1: cows disease or chronic wasting disease of deer? I know
S1: this is getting complex, but I'd love to hear some
S1: Jewish perspectives on this law.
S4: Yeah, good. Well, the law against boiling a kid in
S4: his mother's milk is in these two verses you mentioned,
S4: and also one in Deuteronomy 14. Now, I've actually never
S4: heard this about a theory about prions disease. And maybe God,
S4: in his great wisdom and his omniscience, is giving this
S4: as a health concern, but I doubt it. I think
S4: the best way to understand these verses is that God
S4: wants his people, and their sacrifices that they bring to
S4: be holy, to be set apart for him, and to
S4: be different from the pagan religious practices around them, because
S4: all around them in the land of Israel would be
S4: all worship and all sorts of corrupt worship. This difference,
S4: indeed this holiness, is implied in the Deuteronomy passage about this,
S4: which says, you shall not eat anything that has died naturally.
S4: You may give it to the sojourners within your towns,
S4: that he may eat it, or you may sell it
S4: to a foreigner. For you are a people holy to
S4: the Lord your God. You shall not boil a goat
S4: in its mother's milk. So I think the practice is
S4: forbidden because it's a pagan practice which God forbids for
S4: his people.
S1: Okay. Great answer. Hope that's helpful. There, Stan. Aaron says,
S1: is the Euphrates River mentioned in Genesis two before the flood?
S1: The same river mentioned in revelation? I thought the flood
S1: changed the earth so dramatically that features like rivers would
S1: have been completely changed or destroyed.
S4: Yeah, I appreciate that. Certainly. When the flood came, it
S4: caused all sorts of changes. But but of course, we
S4: can't know exactly what those changes were. So I think
S4: the short answer is yes, we're dealing with the same
S4: river later in Genesis. Genesis 15, God makes a covenant
S4: about the promised Land to Abraham, with the river Euphrates
S4: as its eastern border. So here we're, you know, after
S4: the flood and the Euphrates River is there as a border.
S4: And then later, centuries later with Solomon, the Euphrates is
S4: not just the promised border, but the actual geographic border
S4: of the kingdom. So I take it the short answer
S4: is yes. The river in revelation and the river in
S4: Genesis are the same river.
S1: You're listening to the land and the book with Doctor
S1: Gerald Peterman answering questions. I'm John Gieger. Yours is welcome
S1: at the land and the book at. Pat says, I
S1: recently read a book that had a chapter or two
S1: on the different genealogies, two of them given for Jesus
S1: in Matthew one. And then in Luke three. The author
S1: gave his explanation for them both about Jeconiah being cursed
S1: so he'd be childless, and then being listed as the
S1: father of Shealtiel and the two different fathers listed for Joseph. Now,
S1: I've looked at several other books since then and each
S1: one has a different opinion. Can you help me untangle this?
S4: Well, I hope so. First, in the ancient world, we
S4: have to keep in mind that genealogies are serving a
S4: serving a purpose that it's kind of unusual for us.
S4: So Matthew has 41 names and Luke has 57 names,
S4: so they're obviously doing something a little bit different. As
S4: for Jeconiah, he's also known as Konia and sometimes known
S4: as Jehoiachin. Was he childless? In the typical sense that
S4: we think about it, let's go to Jeremiah 22 and
S4: we're going to start at verse 28. Quote. Is this
S4: man konia a despised broken pot, a vessel no one
S4: cares for? Why are he and his children hurled and
S4: cast into the land? They do not know. Oh, land, land!
S4: Hear the word of the Lord. Thus says the Lord God,
S4: write this man down as childless, a man who will
S4: not succeed in his days, for none of his offspring
S4: will sit upon the throne. So Jeconiah is not actually childless,
S4: just childless in the sense of the kingdom does not
S4: keep going through him.
S1: Okay. Important distinction. Thank you for that. Judy wants to
S1: know when Jesus was 12 years old, the religious teachers
S1: were amazed at all he knew and taught. My question
S1: were these the same religious leaders who wanted him crucified?
S1: 18 years later, this.
S4: Question really made me think and I just love that.
S4: So thanks so much for the question. The time when
S4: Jesus at 12 years old was astonishing. The religious leaders.
S4: That's Luke two. So the short answer is we really
S4: can't know exactly whether the leaders then are the same
S4: ones at the time of his crucifixion, because that's, as
S4: you mentioned, 18 years later. But I suspect there was
S4: a lot of overlap when our Lord was 12. Perhaps
S4: the religious leaders were in their 40s or 50 or 60,
S4: so perhaps a number of them have died, but perhaps
S4: a number of them are still alive when we come
S4: to how they treat him horribly several years later, let's
S4: look at a slightly different example. You recall the triumphal
S4: entry in Luke 19. Yes, Jesus is coming in and
S4: the crowd is praising him and the crowd is joyful
S4: and they're calling him King of Israel. And then one
S4: week later, the crowd shouts for his crucifixion. So I
S4: think part of this question is, how can there be
S4: such a radical change over the course of maybe even
S4: a week, or just a few years? Well, there are
S4: several examples of that in Scripture.
S1: Marvin asks, do we know how many years there were
S1: between Noah and Abraham? What are we to make of
S1: the gaps that are apparently there? How do we account
S1: on a larger scale for China, for example, with a
S1: 5000 year history? How does this fit in? Or are
S1: these people just wrong? Do they not allow for more time?
S1: Do you know of any good book that matches Bible
S1: history to world history? Some people say the Bible isn't
S1: true because it doesn't fit historical data. Maybe non-Christian historians
S1: data is not accurate. Your thoughts?
S4: Well, according to Genesis seven, Noah is 600 years old
S4: at the time of the flood. Blood. And then in
S4: Genesis 929, we find that he lived 350 years after
S4: the flood. Then if we go to Genesis 11 and
S4: we follow the list of descendants, we find that Abraham
S4: was born 292 years after the flood. So in other words,
S4: their lives overlapped a little bit. As for China's 5000
S4: year history, that's not a problem. The Bible doesn't tell
S4: us the history of all people groups. It focuses on
S4: the people of God. But if we look at biblical history,
S4: and with 2000 years since the life of Christ, then
S4: all of biblical history comes out to be 6000 years.
S4: So 5000 years of Chinese history is not a problem. Lastly,
S4: a good book. Yes, there is one by Doctor Stephen
S4: Leston the Bible in World History How History and Scripture intersect.
S4: From 2011.
S1: All right. Interesting question. And I appreciate that resource that
S1: you were able to provide. Here's a question from Ken,
S1: who takes us to Genesis 219. Got a lot of
S1: Genesis type questions today. Verse 19 of chapter two says
S1: that out of the ground God created the fowls of
S1: the air and the beasts of the field. So were
S1: the sea creatures created out of nothing.
S4: That's a great question, Ken. I'm sorry. I don't know
S4: the answer. We're not told exactly. But we see that
S4: God can create out of nothing, and he can create
S4: using something that he's previously made. So we come to
S4: Genesis 124. What do we find? God said, let the
S4: earth bring forth living creatures. This is similar to Genesis
S4: 120 And God said, let the waters swarm with swarms
S4: of living creatures. So the commonality is God creates by
S4: his powerful command.
S1: Well, thank you, Jerry. And, you know, we have covered
S1: a lot of ground today, as we always do. And
S1: maybe you'd like to join this conversation with a question
S1: of your own. You're welcome to do that any old time.
S1: You can just email us at The Land and the
S1: book at. That's a mouthful. Let me slow it down.
S1: The land and the book at Moody's. You may well
S1: know that we've got a podcast at our website for
S1: you to take advantage of that if you're not already.
S1: More importantly, we'd love for you to share us with
S1: a friend. You know, there's no advertising budget here, and
S1: you're letting somebody else know about the podcast is a
S1: great endorsement and we'd appreciate you doing that. Again, you'll
S1: find the podcast at The Land and the book.org. Charlie
S1: Dyer's devotional is coming up next here on the land
S1: and the book. Hope you stick around. We're sure glad
S1: for your company today at the Land and the book.
S1: You've got lots of choices and you're spending time with
S1: us and we say thank you. In a recent visit
S1: out to the Boston area, I remember visiting the bridge
S1: from which the shot that was heard around the around
S1: the world was fired the start of the American Revolution.
S1: There's a a statue there. And there was an inscription
S1: on that statue I read, and boy, it really, really
S1: kind of tugged at my heart. But Charlie, your devotional
S1: is about an inscription of a different type. Is that right?
S2: It is. It's one that goes back much earlier in
S2: time and I think is incredibly relevant for those of
S2: us who love the Bible.
S1: We're looking forward to your devotional, which we're going to
S1: get to after this Holy Land experience. Listen.
S5: Hi. I'm fearless and I cherish this Holy Land experience
S5: because it confirms that everything in Scripture makes sense down
S5: to the smallest detail. Doctor Dyer took us up to
S5: the top of Mount Carmel, where Elijah and our Lord
S5: took care of the priests of Baal. And then Scripture
S5: reports that Elijah scampered down the mountain and beat Ahab home.
S5: How can that happen? Seeing the terrain, I could very
S5: well understand. I could probably do it myself. We visited Engedi,
S5: where Saul and his thousands of troops chased after David
S5: for months and months. And you think he should be
S5: able to find David? But I saw the holes in
S5: the rocks and the cracks and the ruggedness of the terrain,
S5: and it all made sense. And then just yesterday, I
S5: believe we visited Ayla Valley and stopped at this inconsequential
S5: and very inconvenient place. And Doctor Dyer read scripture and
S5: painted the picture of how the Philistine army came up
S5: from the sea and covered the hills on one side
S5: of the valley. And Saul and the troops were protecting
S5: the road leading to Bethlehem and Jerusalem. And how David
S5: walked into the brook and picked up his five smooth stones.
S5: And the brook still has an adequate number of smooth stones.
S1: All right, Charlie, take us to your continuing series, 11 inscriptions.
S2: Yeah. And today we're beginning this multi-part series, which I'm
S2: calling 11 inscriptions to the Bible. We'll be exploring 11
S2: archaeological finds, written inscriptions that have given us new insight
S2: into our understanding of God's Word. So lace up your boots,
S2: grab your shovel. Don't forget your Indiana Jones fedora. Today's
S2: journey takes us to the plaza just outside the main
S2: gate of the ancient city of Dan. As we walk
S2: up to the gate, I have so many things I
S2: want to show you. For example, notice how we came
S2: through the outer gate into the courtyard, and you were
S2: forced to turn to the left before reaching the inner gate. Now,
S2: how many of you listening are right handed? Well, you
S2: just died. And think about it. Right handed warriors carry
S2: their sword in their right hand and their shield in
S2: their left. As you came in the gate and turned left,
S2: your shield is on the wrong side. It won't protect
S2: you from the archers shooting down at you from the
S2: wall inside. No wonder the Bible singled out left handed warriors.
S2: And before we turn around, take note of the small
S2: platform here in this inner courtyard. This was the spot
S2: where the local governor would sit to judge. We read
S2: in the Bible about the elders sitting in the gates,
S2: and about the kings setting up their thrones in the gate. Well,
S2: here's a real life example. This courtyard was the courthouse
S2: for the ancient city of Dan. Now follow me back
S2: outside the gate. As you can see, the archaeologists also
S2: excavated out here in this broad plaza. And this is
S2: where the first inscription in our series was uncovered. As
S2: the archaeologists were digging, they found a small fragment of
S2: a monumental pillar that had been set up in this
S2: courtyard area. And then another piece was discovered and another.
S2: What was even more amazing was the fact that there
S2: was writing on this pillar commemorating a military victory by
S2: one of Israel's enemies. But later the pillar was smashed
S2: and buried, most likely by the Israelites when they retook
S2: the city. The inscription was written by a king who
S2: worshiped the god Hadad. Hadad was another name for Baal,
S2: but more importantly it was the chief god of Aram,
S2: modern day Syria, and the king of Aram, who ruled
S2: in Damascus, was known as the son of Hadad Ben Hadad.
S2: This inscription was Was placed at the city of Dan
S2: by one of Syria's kings. But which one and when
S2: was it written? In the inscription, the king names two
S2: of his enemies, though parts of the names are missing
S2: enough remains to fill in the blanks. Here's the boast
S2: made by the king of Syria I killed Joram, son
S2: of Ahab, King of Israel, and I killed Ahaziah, son
S2: of Jehoram, king of the house of David. And with
S2: that statement were taken to a very specific, tumultuous period
S2: in the history of the kingdoms of Israel and Judah.
S2: Ahab and his wife Jezebel are two of the most
S2: evil individuals in the Bible. They made Baal the official
S2: god of the northern kingdom of Israel, and by giving
S2: their daughter in marriage to the king of Judah, they
S2: exported Baal worship to that kingdom as well. The Bible
S2: says King Ahaziah of Judah walked in the ways of
S2: the house of Ahab. The king of Israel and the
S2: king of Judah were not only united in marriage, they
S2: also shared a commitment to follow the god Baal. And
S2: that's when the true God of Israel called for a change.
S2: The two kings of Israel and Judah went to fight
S2: against the king of Syria at Ramoth Gilead on the
S2: Golan Heights. And the Bible tells us that the Arameans
S2: wounded Joram, the king of Israel. So Joram returned to
S2: Jezreel to recover from the wounds. And King Hezekiah of
S2: Judah also went to Jezreel to see Joram. Picture the
S2: scene in the camp of the Syrians. An officer rushes
S2: into the tent of the king. Your Majesty, we just
S2: got this report from the front. Our archers hit the
S2: King of Israel. We saw him slumped down in the chariot,
S2: which then raced from the battlefield. We're not certain, but
S2: we believe we might have killed him. The king then asks,
S2: and what about his ally, the King of Judah? We're
S2: not sure. It's possible. He was also hit in that
S2: volley of arrows and taken from the field. His chariot
S2: is nowhere to be seen. In the confusion of battle,
S2: one king is definitely wounded and another goes missing. The
S2: reports are sketchy, but it bodes well for the King
S2: of Syria, and the news only seems to get better.
S2: The military commander of Israel's forces, a man named Jehu,
S2: is seen leaving the battlefield and driving his chariot furiously
S2: across the Jordan Valley, back toward the city of Jezreel.
S2: The king of Syria doesn't know what's taking place, but
S2: with the opposing kings possibly killed and the general racing away,
S2: he's quick to press the battle. In fact, the Bible
S2: reports that Haziel overpowered the Israelites throughout their territory east
S2: of the Jordan, in all the land of Gilead. And
S2: this is also when he must have captured the city
S2: of Dan. The Bible tells us what really happened to
S2: the kings of Israel and Judah. They were killed by
S2: Jehu when he reached the city of Jezreel, not by
S2: the King of Syria, but since the king of Syria
S2: knew his archers had wounded the King of Israel, he
S2: claimed the credit when he heard the king was dead.
S2: We know exactly when this all took place. 841 BC.
S2: And once we understand the historical background, we can now
S2: see how the inscription and the Bible fit hand in glove,
S2: each helping us better understand what was really happening at
S2: the time. But here's the real significance of the inscription.
S2: In it, the ruler over the kingdom of Judah was
S2: called the King of the House of David. Now, why
S2: is that important? Well, many have claimed that David never existed,
S2: that he was a mythological ruler invented much later in
S2: Israel's history. According to the Bible's account, David died in
S2: 970 B.C. here, just over a century after his death,
S2: is an inscription clearly identifying the rulers of Judah as
S2: descendants of the House of David. This inscription might very
S2: well be the original MythBusters. By showing the accuracy and
S2: historicity of the Bible and the silliness of the idea
S2: that David was just a myth, it's even more significant
S2: in light of God's words to David in second Samuel seven.
S2: David wanted to build a house for God, but God
S2: didn't allow him to do so. However, just a few
S2: verses later, God uses the same expression to describe the
S2: dynasty he would give to David. The Lord will establish
S2: a house for you. Your house and your kingdom will
S2: endure forever before me. The inscription found at Tel Dan
S2: mentions the name of the King of Israel, but it
S2: then identifies Judah's king as the king from the house
S2: or dynasty of David. But what does any of this
S2: have to do with us today? Let me end with
S2: two quick thoughts. First, the more archaeologists uncover, the more
S2: reliable the Bible is shown to be. The House of
S2: David inscription is just one more example showing you can
S2: trust the Bible. And second, this inscription also reminds us
S2: that the Bible is accurate when it says there are
S2: consequences for actions. Two kings chose to turn away from
S2: God and God judged them for it. We not only
S2: can trust the Bible, we also need to listen carefully
S2: to what it says and live our lives accordingly. Now,
S2: as I go through this series, I'll also post photos
S2: of these fines on our land in the book Facebook page.
S2: So take some time to go to Facebook, explore the
S2: site and see what these discoveries look like up close
S2: and personal.
S1: Thank you Charlie. The first in your new series on
S1: biblical inscriptions. I'm looking forward to more. And if you've
S1: not been to our website lately, we do encourage you
S1: to give it a visit. We're found at The Land
S1: and the book. That's the land and the book. Org.
S1: You can find information about today's guest, past guest, future programs, books,
S1: Charlie's written, and a whole lot more. That's the land
S1: and the book. Sure appreciate having you with us today,
S1: and I hope you'll share us with a friend. Let
S1: them know how they can listen, either on this station
S1: or by our podcast at The Land and the book
S1: for our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer. I'm
S1: John Gallagher and the land and the book is a
S1: production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.