1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,080 S1: She's a Jewish studies major at Moody Bible Institute, and 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,400 S1: she was looking forward to her internship in Israel. But 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,680 S1: it wasn't long before a tense drama unfolded, creating a 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,480 S1: different twist in her story, along with a unique lesson 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,480 S1: in trusting God. You'll hear the details firsthand, straight ahead. Hey, 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,400 S1: welcome to the land and the book with Doctor Charlie Dyer. 7 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,520 S1: Charlie has traveled to Israel well over a hundred times, 8 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,479 S1: and I'm John Gager hoping your new year is getting 9 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,199 S1: off to a good start. And you have to ask 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,400 S1: the question at this time of year, what does Passover 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,239 S1: mean for us as believers in Jesus? Some might remember 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,200 S1: the story from the book of Exodus, but there is 13 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,159 S1: so much more to it. Did you know, for example, 14 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,720 S1: that the Last Supper was a Passover meal? Not only 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,600 S1: did Jesus and his disciples celebrate Passover, but it also 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,600 S1: foreshadowed his death on the cross for our redemption. 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,190 S2: Yeah, Passover is an amazing connection point with our Jewish friends, 18 00:01:01,190 --> 00:01:04,230 S2: both around the world and across the street. Jewish people 19 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:07,470 S2: have been keeping this feast for thousands of years. Understanding 20 00:01:07,470 --> 00:01:10,550 S2: the importance of this holiday and its history helps you 21 00:01:10,550 --> 00:01:13,670 S2: better understand these precious people. And what better way to 22 00:01:13,709 --> 00:01:17,350 S2: learn than to experience a Passover Seder yourself? If you've 23 00:01:17,350 --> 00:01:20,630 S2: never celebrated Passover, our friends at Life in Messiah would 24 00:01:20,630 --> 00:01:23,869 S2: love to partner with you in hosting a Seder experience. 25 00:01:24,030 --> 00:01:27,230 S2: Every year, their staff engage churches and small groups in 26 00:01:27,230 --> 00:01:30,750 S2: an interactive Messiah in the Passover Seder, where you can 27 00:01:30,750 --> 00:01:33,950 S2: taste and see the redemption story. If you're interested in 28 00:01:33,990 --> 00:01:36,750 S2: having someone come to lead a Seder in your area, 29 00:01:36,790 --> 00:01:40,390 S2: visit Lifein Messiah org and click on the radio button 30 00:01:40,390 --> 00:01:42,950 S2: to learn more. That's life in Messiah. 31 00:01:44,430 --> 00:01:46,789 S1: Well, as we start the new year, we face an 32 00:01:46,790 --> 00:01:50,990 S1: open calendar filled with as yet unknown possibilities and problems. 33 00:01:50,990 --> 00:01:53,870 S1: And Charlie, I know you're not a prophet, but with 34 00:01:53,870 --> 00:01:56,390 S1: what we do know right now, do you think the 35 00:01:56,390 --> 00:01:58,900 S1: New Year might bring with it a season of war 36 00:01:59,020 --> 00:01:59,860 S1: or peace. 37 00:02:00,380 --> 00:02:02,780 S2: You know, I'm reminded of the words of the psalmist 38 00:02:02,780 --> 00:02:05,820 S2: in Psalm 120, verses six and seven. He said to long, 39 00:02:05,820 --> 00:02:08,419 S2: I've lived among those who hate peace. I'm a man 40 00:02:08,419 --> 00:02:11,260 S2: of peace. But when I speak, they're for war. And 41 00:02:11,300 --> 00:02:14,420 S2: I believe the majority of people, certainly in Israel, would 42 00:02:14,419 --> 00:02:16,060 S2: love to have a year of peace. You know, a 43 00:02:16,060 --> 00:02:19,580 S2: year when the people of Gaza, Lebanon and Syria could 44 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:23,060 S2: focus on rebuilding their lives as Israel's focusing on rebuilding 45 00:02:23,060 --> 00:02:26,740 S2: their own. But sadly, neither Hamas nor Hezbollah, nor the 46 00:02:26,740 --> 00:02:30,340 S2: Islamic fundamentalists in Syria are willing to live in peace 47 00:02:30,340 --> 00:02:33,780 S2: with Israel while Israel seeks peace. They always seem to 48 00:02:33,780 --> 00:02:36,100 S2: be for war. And we know that true peace is 49 00:02:36,100 --> 00:02:38,579 S2: never going to arrive until the Prince of Peace returns. 50 00:02:38,580 --> 00:02:42,580 S2: But short term 2026 might hold the prospect of at 51 00:02:42,620 --> 00:02:46,619 S2: least a temporary respite from two years of war, depending 52 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:49,540 S2: on how resolute the US is in enforcing Hamas to 53 00:02:49,580 --> 00:02:52,540 S2: lay down its arms. It's possible that much of Gaza 54 00:02:52,540 --> 00:02:56,820 S2: will focus on construction rather than conflict that would benefit 55 00:02:56,820 --> 00:03:00,130 S2: both Israel and the people of Gaza. It's also possible 56 00:03:00,169 --> 00:03:03,290 S2: 2026 will bring a measure of peace for Syria. The 57 00:03:03,290 --> 00:03:08,209 S2: countries in economic basket case following 13.5 years of civil war. 58 00:03:08,530 --> 00:03:12,650 S2: They need to focus on rebuilding basic government institutions along 59 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:16,370 S2: with essential infrastructure like roads and utilities. For that, they 60 00:03:16,370 --> 00:03:20,049 S2: need outside help and that requires relative stability and quiet. 61 00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:24,130 S2: There remains significant tensions just below the surface, though, with 62 00:03:24,130 --> 00:03:26,650 S2: minority groups like the Alawites and the Druze and the 63 00:03:26,650 --> 00:03:30,330 S2: Kurds looking suspiciously at the members of former Islamic terror 64 00:03:30,370 --> 00:03:34,290 S2: groups now occupying positions of power in Damascus. But hopefully 65 00:03:34,290 --> 00:03:36,890 S2: those tensions will be held in check. Now, I'm less 66 00:03:36,890 --> 00:03:39,610 S2: hopeful when it comes to Lebanon. Iran is still looking 67 00:03:39,610 --> 00:03:42,450 S2: for ways to help rebuild Hezbollah, and at least so far, 68 00:03:42,490 --> 00:03:47,170 S2: Hezbollah has refused to disarm. Israel continues striking Hezbollah's training 69 00:03:47,170 --> 00:03:51,170 S2: camps and storage depots and key leaders. And Israel's vowed 70 00:03:51,170 --> 00:03:54,290 S2: not to let Hezbollah reach the level of military might 71 00:03:54,290 --> 00:03:56,840 S2: it had prior to the war. So right now, I 72 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:58,440 S2: would say that if there's going to be a return 73 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,240 S2: to war, it might happen in Lebanon. Should Israel feel 74 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,680 S2: that Hezbollah is again trying to become a threat? Iran 75 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,080 S2: could eventually also become a threat. But at least right 76 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,280 S2: now they have enough of their own economic and political 77 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:15,000 S2: struggles to occupy their leadership. So hopefully, hopefully, with the 78 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,160 S2: possible exception of Lebanon, this might be a year of 79 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:19,240 S2: relative peace. 80 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:23,160 S1: Question number two will the US continue to support Israel 81 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,359 S1: in the coming year, or could there be increased friction 82 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,240 S1: between the two countries as each views the Middle East 83 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,480 S1: through different lenses? 84 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:33,080 S2: You know, we've seen hints over the past few months 85 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:36,560 S2: that suggest there could be some friction and additional friction. 86 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,239 S2: In fact, in the coming year, Israel views their current 87 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:43,719 S2: situation existentially. Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran have shown by their 88 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,440 S2: words and by their actions that they want to eliminate Israel. 89 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,800 S2: In contrast, President Trump views the Middle East economically. To him, 90 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,580 S2: countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar have deep financial pockets 91 00:04:55,580 --> 00:04:58,140 S2: that can benefit the US. And so he's more willing 92 00:04:58,180 --> 00:05:01,180 S2: to overlook the fact that they've also used those funds 93 00:05:01,180 --> 00:05:04,580 S2: to influence US opinion and to support terror groups that 94 00:05:04,580 --> 00:05:07,940 S2: work against US and Israeli interests. Now, I'm not suggesting 95 00:05:07,940 --> 00:05:10,900 S2: that Trump will suddenly turn against Israel, but when it 96 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:14,500 S2: comes down to selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia or allowing 97 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:17,900 S2: Qatar's views on Hamas and Gaza to hold sway, there 98 00:05:17,900 --> 00:05:21,140 S2: are differences of opinion. I believe it's in the US's 99 00:05:21,140 --> 00:05:24,460 S2: long term interest to hold two truths in tension in 100 00:05:24,460 --> 00:05:27,900 S2: the coming year. First, not everything Israel does or the 101 00:05:27,900 --> 00:05:31,580 S2: countries around them, for that matter, is necessarily right. We 102 00:05:31,580 --> 00:05:34,739 S2: need to maintain a moral compass based on what God 103 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:37,980 S2: has said is right and wrong. But second, we need 104 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:40,020 S2: to remember that there is a God who has made 105 00:05:40,020 --> 00:05:42,659 S2: a covenant with Israel. If we want God to bless 106 00:05:42,660 --> 00:05:45,140 S2: the US, we need to begin with the reality of 107 00:05:45,140 --> 00:05:48,180 S2: Genesis 12 three. God will bless those who bless the 108 00:05:48,180 --> 00:05:51,460 S2: Jewish people and curse those who curse them. And it's 109 00:05:51,460 --> 00:05:55,130 S2: in our nation's long term interest to bless Israel, and 110 00:05:55,130 --> 00:05:57,770 S2: that includes affirming their right to exist as a nation 111 00:05:57,770 --> 00:06:01,010 S2: within strong borders and to stand with them against those 112 00:06:01,010 --> 00:06:02,490 S2: who seek their harm. 113 00:06:02,529 --> 00:06:05,370 S1: That's Doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gager, you're listening to 114 00:06:05,410 --> 00:06:07,930 S1: The Land and the book from Moody Radio. We call 115 00:06:07,930 --> 00:06:10,490 S1: it a one hour flyover of the Middle East, and 116 00:06:10,490 --> 00:06:12,770 S1: you'll get it if you're new. As you hang out 117 00:06:12,770 --> 00:06:14,690 S1: with us today, we're working our way through a list 118 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:18,170 S1: of potential trends in the Middle East. Every political decision 119 00:06:18,170 --> 00:06:20,970 S1: being made in Israel today on all sides is being 120 00:06:20,970 --> 00:06:24,970 S1: done with one eye on upcoming elections. How significant will 121 00:06:25,010 --> 00:06:28,890 S1: these elections be as Israel moves forward in 2026? 122 00:06:29,170 --> 00:06:31,810 S2: You know, the upcoming elections are going to dominate Israel 123 00:06:31,810 --> 00:06:36,210 S2: in 2026. By law, Israel has to hold elections before 124 00:06:36,210 --> 00:06:39,210 S2: the end of October. However, the current government can call 125 00:06:39,210 --> 00:06:42,890 S2: new elections anytime between now and then. The normal time 126 00:06:42,890 --> 00:06:45,610 S2: between the dissolving of the government and new elections is 127 00:06:45,610 --> 00:06:48,809 S2: 3 to 4 months. That's when all the campaigning is done. 128 00:06:48,810 --> 00:06:52,160 S2: So the latest the current government can go on before calling. 129 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,640 S2: New elections would be sometime in July. Failure to pass 130 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,159 S2: a budget by the end of March would also automatically 131 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:01,960 S2: trigger new elections. Now, between now and summer, watch for 132 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,520 S2: the formation of new parties in Israel or for the 133 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,240 S2: joining of several parties together into alliances. Also watch for 134 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,880 S2: every government decision and action to be closely scrutinized. Netanyahu 135 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,680 S2: will try to have negative news, like an inquiry into 136 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,920 S2: October 7th, or the ultra-Orthodox draft or his current trial 137 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,000 S2: get resolved in time to not have them make the 138 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,400 S2: news during the campaign period. At the same time, he'll 139 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,040 S2: try to score diplomatic points with the US and with 140 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,440 S2: other countries just prior to the election to demonstrate leadership 141 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,760 S2: to appear statesmanlike. And on the flip side, watch for 142 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,080 S2: all his would be rivals to try to do everything 143 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,200 S2: possible to remind voters of all the criticism they have 144 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,880 S2: had of Netanyahu and his party. Just as our country 145 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,840 S2: descends into petty partisan attacks leading up to elections, well, 146 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,230 S2: Israel does the same thing and it will dominate events 147 00:07:52,230 --> 00:07:55,710 S2: in the country through October and then likely sometime beyond that, 148 00:07:55,710 --> 00:07:58,310 S2: as whoever seems to win the election tries to form 149 00:07:58,310 --> 00:08:01,030 S2: a coalition government following that election. 150 00:08:01,310 --> 00:08:04,510 S1: Quick follow up, Charlie, any motion on the dismissal of 151 00:08:04,510 --> 00:08:06,070 S1: charges against Netanyahu? 152 00:08:06,550 --> 00:08:08,950 S2: You know, even their Supreme Court suggested that one of 153 00:08:08,950 --> 00:08:13,190 S2: those charges be dismissed and the prosecutor denied. So right now, 154 00:08:13,190 --> 00:08:16,190 S2: the prosecution is trying to hold firm and score points 155 00:08:16,190 --> 00:08:19,630 S2: against Netanyahu in his trial by having him appear. But 156 00:08:19,670 --> 00:08:21,350 S2: I think that's going to continue going on, and I 157 00:08:21,350 --> 00:08:23,270 S2: think it is somewhat politically motivated. 158 00:08:23,670 --> 00:08:25,550 S1: Let's end with a question that we have asked for 159 00:08:25,550 --> 00:08:29,870 S1: the past five years on this program. Could 2026 be 160 00:08:29,870 --> 00:08:33,670 S1: the year that tourism finally returns to Israel in a 161 00:08:33,670 --> 00:08:34,590 S1: significant way? 162 00:08:35,230 --> 00:08:37,510 S2: I run to that old Jewish expression from from your 163 00:08:37,510 --> 00:08:40,830 S2: lips to God's ears. Yeah, that's what they certainly hope. 164 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:43,270 S2: And if we've learned anything over the past four years, 165 00:08:43,270 --> 00:08:46,390 S2: it's always to expect the unexpected. Israel was on its 166 00:08:46,429 --> 00:08:49,820 S2: way to setting all time tourism records until Covid hit 167 00:08:49,820 --> 00:08:53,340 S2: and then tourism shut down for almost 18 months. Tourism 168 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:57,059 S2: was just making a strong comeback in 2023, when Hamas 169 00:08:57,100 --> 00:09:00,579 S2: launched its invasion and brought tourism to a halt once again. 170 00:09:00,820 --> 00:09:03,420 S2: Even if someone wanted to travel to Israel in the 171 00:09:03,420 --> 00:09:06,900 S2: last two years, most airlines weren't flying and many hotels 172 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:10,260 S2: were occupied by refugees from the border with Gaza and 173 00:09:10,260 --> 00:09:13,540 S2: Lebanon who had to flee for their lives. Tourism limped 174 00:09:13,540 --> 00:09:17,380 S2: along through 2025 until the war with Iran, and ceasefire 175 00:09:17,380 --> 00:09:21,140 S2: with Hamas finally brought a measure of peace. Tourism was 176 00:09:21,140 --> 00:09:23,179 S2: on an upswing when I took a group there in 177 00:09:23,179 --> 00:09:26,460 S2: late November, and I understand that future demand for airline 178 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:30,420 S2: and hotel space has been growing for much of 2026. Now, 179 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:32,780 S2: if the trend continues and that's a big if, still, 180 00:09:32,820 --> 00:09:36,300 S2: 2026 could become the year that tourism finally starts to 181 00:09:36,340 --> 00:09:39,500 S2: bounce back. It might still be relatively slow for the 182 00:09:39,540 --> 00:09:41,860 S2: first half of the year, but the fall could see 183 00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:44,860 S2: a large influx of tourists. And that's assuming, of course, 184 00:09:44,860 --> 00:09:48,059 S2: that airline flight schedules continue to return to normal and 185 00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:51,770 S2: that hotels and restaurants and tourist sites fully reopen by 186 00:09:51,770 --> 00:09:55,330 S2: early spring. And then another pandemic or war doesn't break 187 00:09:55,330 --> 00:09:58,130 S2: out right now. I think there's a temporary lull in 188 00:09:58,170 --> 00:10:01,610 S2: fighting in the region. Israel has regained the upper hand militarily, 189 00:10:01,610 --> 00:10:03,650 S2: and their enemies are not in a position to launch 190 00:10:03,690 --> 00:10:07,810 S2: another surprise attack. And hopefully, doctors and international health services 191 00:10:07,809 --> 00:10:12,050 S2: are ready to mobilize to stop any widespread worldwide pandemic 192 00:10:12,050 --> 00:10:15,410 S2: that might get started. So barring a major economic meltdown 193 00:10:15,410 --> 00:10:18,929 S2: or a regional war. 2026 might indeed be the year 194 00:10:18,929 --> 00:10:22,490 S2: tourism finally returns. That would be a blessing to Israel 195 00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:24,970 S2: and to all those tourists who will get to see 196 00:10:24,970 --> 00:10:27,410 S2: what kept us going back all those years. 197 00:10:27,929 --> 00:10:31,690 S1: Boy, that's a great hope and we trust that. So. Well, 198 00:10:31,690 --> 00:10:34,410 S1: she's a Jewish Studies major at Moody who sought an 199 00:10:34,410 --> 00:10:38,170 S1: internship in Israel. And then. Well, the drama unfolded. It's 200 00:10:38,170 --> 00:10:41,130 S1: a great story. You'll enjoy her testimony. It's up next 201 00:10:41,170 --> 00:10:58,280 S1: on The Land and the book from Moody Radio. She's 202 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,439 S1: a Jewish studies major at Moody Bible Institute, and she 203 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,959 S1: was looking forward to her summer internship in Israel. But 204 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,640 S1: it wasn't long after she got there that a tense 205 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:11,520 S1: drama unfolded, creating a different twist in her story. You'll 206 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,360 S1: hear it firsthand coming up. Welcome back to the land 207 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,160 S1: and the book. I'm John Geiger, inviting you to think 208 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,000 S1: creatively with me about a fresh idea for sharing the 209 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,559 S1: love of Christ with someone you know who's Jewish. What 210 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,040 S1: do some of us overlook as we think about becoming 211 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,600 S1: more intentional in building a friendship with a Jewish neighbor 212 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,840 S1: or coworker? Let's throw that question in the direction of 213 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,320 S1: Beth Tevlin, who's with the Olive tree congregation. What do 214 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:36,960 S1: you think, Beth? 215 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:41,599 S3: I think that we sometimes overlook simple things being a friend, 216 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:46,100 S3: being interested in what holidays that Jewish people celebrate. I 217 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:48,620 S3: think the most impactful thing that can reach a Jewish 218 00:11:48,620 --> 00:11:53,420 S3: person is your personal relationship with Jesus. They don't have that. 219 00:11:53,420 --> 00:11:55,939 S3: And when they see it and when they see it's real, 220 00:11:55,940 --> 00:11:56,780 S3: they want it. 221 00:11:56,980 --> 00:12:00,420 S1: Mm. So how do I go from making this a 222 00:12:00,700 --> 00:12:03,060 S1: sort of a good idea to actually doing it. What 223 00:12:03,059 --> 00:12:04,059 S1: might that look like? 224 00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:07,699 S3: Invite them over or out to lunch. Um, talk to them. 225 00:12:07,820 --> 00:12:12,300 S3: Be interested in what they do. Ask questions about their 226 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:16,180 S3: holy days, or how they celebrate, or how they. Many 227 00:12:16,179 --> 00:12:19,900 S3: Jewish people don't even go to synagogue. Um, but by 228 00:12:19,940 --> 00:12:24,700 S3: being interested in them, it prompts similar questions. Well, what 229 00:12:24,700 --> 00:12:27,780 S3: would they ask of you and give you an opportunity 230 00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:29,020 S3: to share? So be ready. 231 00:12:29,059 --> 00:12:31,660 S1: Sounds like you're really saying be a friend. 232 00:12:31,700 --> 00:12:34,420 S3: Yes. And don't be afraid. Just because they're Jewish, they 233 00:12:34,420 --> 00:12:36,420 S3: may not know anything about the Bible. 234 00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:39,140 S1: Beth Tamblyn is with Olive Tree Congregation and joins us 235 00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:43,740 S1: here today on the land and the book. Anna Caswell 236 00:12:43,740 --> 00:12:47,090 S1: is a Jewish studies major at Moody Bible Institute. She 237 00:12:47,090 --> 00:12:50,569 S1: makes her home in northwest Indiana, where she loves to read, swim, 238 00:12:50,570 --> 00:12:53,050 S1: and just kind of bum around. Anna is one of 239 00:12:53,050 --> 00:12:57,890 S1: those multi-talented people, though. Proof she's done professional welding, I 240 00:12:57,890 --> 00:12:59,890 S1: like that. But if you want to put a smile 241 00:12:59,890 --> 00:13:02,650 S1: on her face, put a plate of sushi in front 242 00:13:02,650 --> 00:13:03,810 S1: of her. Isn't that right, Anna? 243 00:13:04,010 --> 00:13:05,050 S4: Yeah, I would say. 244 00:13:05,970 --> 00:13:08,010 S1: Hey, welcome back to the land and the book, Anna. 245 00:13:08,370 --> 00:13:10,410 S4: Thank you. It's so nice to be back. 246 00:13:10,410 --> 00:13:13,370 S1: Well, somebody's listening right now. Says, what's a Jewish Studies 247 00:13:13,370 --> 00:13:14,810 S1: major all about? 248 00:13:14,850 --> 00:13:19,690 S4: Yeah. So at Moody, it's really studying the history of 249 00:13:19,929 --> 00:13:23,730 S4: Judaism as it intersected with Christianity in the first century, 250 00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:28,450 S4: and then how our two communities have developed separately, and 251 00:13:28,450 --> 00:13:31,929 S4: why those reasons are and kind of the commonalities and 252 00:13:31,929 --> 00:13:37,770 S4: differences in our study of Scripture and how Christians can 253 00:13:37,770 --> 00:13:42,370 S4: understand Jewish people better in their practices and kind of 254 00:13:42,410 --> 00:13:46,200 S4: the history that we share that is both bad and good. 255 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:46,600 S1: Yeah. 256 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,520 S4: And, uh, helps us just understand how we can share 257 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,360 S4: the gospel in a more accurate and loving way. 258 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,000 S1: You look down the road and I'm curious, any sense 259 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,080 S1: of what God might be leading you to do after graduation? 260 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,160 S1: What you hope to do with your moody training eventually? 261 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:07,040 S4: Yeah, I feel so excited to learn more, especially in 262 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,760 S4: grad school. I would love to continue studying Middle Eastern 263 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:14,679 S4: studies and maybe even Islam, because I've studied Judaism and Christianity, 264 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,599 S4: and it would just be so interesting to add another 265 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,760 S4: religion to that because they're so connected as well. But yeah, 266 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,680 S4: I'm not really sure. So I'm going to be working 267 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,520 S4: for a few years trying to save up for that 268 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,720 S4: and just discern where the right school and the right 269 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:31,800 S4: discipline is for a master's program. 270 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:34,760 S1: Well, tell us your favorite class and your favorite prof 271 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:36,040 S1: right now here at Moody. 272 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,240 S4: Oh, right now I have an amazing professor, Doctor Mönkemeyer. 273 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,550 S4: He is pretty new to Moody, but, uh, he is 274 00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:47,110 S4: a New Testament prophet, and I'm in two of his classes, 275 00:14:47,110 --> 00:14:51,750 S4: Life of Christ and Romans, which is a senior required class. 276 00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:56,070 S4: And they are kicking my butt a little bit, but, uh, yeah, 277 00:14:56,110 --> 00:14:58,550 S4: but it's been so good learning so much about the 278 00:14:58,550 --> 00:15:00,110 S4: word and. Yeah. 279 00:15:00,390 --> 00:15:04,030 S1: Okay, so this summer you had an internship. Uh, what 280 00:15:04,030 --> 00:15:06,590 S1: does your major require as a Jewish Studies major with 281 00:15:06,590 --> 00:15:07,870 S1: regard to an internship? 282 00:15:08,270 --> 00:15:11,150 S4: Yeah. So it doesn't have to be overseas, but it 283 00:15:11,150 --> 00:15:14,470 S4: has to be working with a church or a parachurch organization, 284 00:15:14,510 --> 00:15:17,950 S4: kind of volunteering your time and using some area of 285 00:15:17,950 --> 00:15:20,670 S4: your study. So, yeah. 286 00:15:21,150 --> 00:15:23,550 S1: So you prayed about it, thought about it, and God 287 00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:26,310 S1: seemed to be leading you to what and where in 288 00:15:26,310 --> 00:15:27,630 S1: Israel this past summer. 289 00:15:27,630 --> 00:15:31,830 S4: Right, right. So I asked around and I got connected 290 00:15:31,830 --> 00:15:35,150 S4: to Frontier Missions, and eventually I got in touch with 291 00:15:35,190 --> 00:15:38,630 S4: Beit Emanuel, which is a guest house in Tel Aviv. 292 00:15:38,670 --> 00:15:42,140 S4: They also host a messianic congregation in their building, and 293 00:15:42,140 --> 00:15:46,100 S4: they serve travelers. It's like a hostel type where they 294 00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:46,900 S4: serve breakfast. 295 00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:49,780 S1: And I have to ask, what stood out to you 296 00:15:50,060 --> 00:15:53,180 S1: when you first stood on Israeli soil for the first time? 297 00:15:53,220 --> 00:15:54,340 S1: First impressions? 298 00:15:54,340 --> 00:15:58,780 S4: It was very, very anticlimactic because my luggage got lost. 299 00:15:58,860 --> 00:16:02,340 S4: So I think I've heard so many people have different 300 00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:05,020 S4: reactions to being in the Holy Land for the first time, 301 00:16:05,020 --> 00:16:09,500 S4: and I was mainly concerned that my suitcase was gone. Um, 302 00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:10,380 S4: so your. 303 00:16:10,420 --> 00:16:11,980 S1: Luggage didn't arrive, but you did. 304 00:16:12,020 --> 00:16:16,860 S4: But I did. And a really good friend from the, um, 305 00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:20,060 S4: ministry picked me up, and I was just amazed at 306 00:16:20,060 --> 00:16:25,900 S4: all the signs in Hebrew and Arabic. Yes, and in Arabic. And. Yeah, 307 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:28,420 S4: it was it was a very surreal experience, but I 308 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:29,340 S4: was very tired. 309 00:16:29,620 --> 00:16:33,340 S1: We're talking with moody student Anna Caswell today about her internship. 310 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:35,780 S1: That was more about an interruption you're about to hear 311 00:16:35,780 --> 00:16:39,610 S1: about in just a few minutes. Uh, guest house for 312 00:16:39,610 --> 00:16:42,850 S1: lesser informed Americans is sort of like a hotel over there, correct? 313 00:16:42,890 --> 00:16:43,810 S4: Yeah, yeah. 314 00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:45,930 S1: And what do you actually doing at this guest house? 315 00:16:46,170 --> 00:16:48,890 S4: So mainly I was living there in a side wing 316 00:16:48,890 --> 00:16:52,290 S4: for volunteers, and I was cleaning changing rooms as the 317 00:16:52,290 --> 00:16:54,370 S4: guests would come in and out. And then every morning 318 00:16:54,370 --> 00:16:58,490 S4: we would serve a really wonderful Israeli breakfast with cheeses 319 00:16:58,490 --> 00:17:02,450 S4: and vegetables and eggs. And so I would help cook 320 00:17:02,490 --> 00:17:03,690 S4: and serve the breakfast. 321 00:17:03,730 --> 00:17:05,930 S1: Your favorite part of breakfast was what? 322 00:17:06,490 --> 00:17:10,170 S4: You know, cottage cheese in Israel just tastes so different. 323 00:17:10,210 --> 00:17:12,770 S4: It's like it's just it's not sour at all. It's 324 00:17:12,770 --> 00:17:14,570 S4: very creamy. And we would have that on toast and 325 00:17:14,570 --> 00:17:16,729 S4: it was oh so good. Okay, I missed that. 326 00:17:17,410 --> 00:17:20,050 S1: Well, there you are at this guest house, and I 327 00:17:20,050 --> 00:17:23,090 S1: have to ask, um, any moments to share your faith 328 00:17:23,090 --> 00:17:24,090 S1: in any kind of way? 329 00:17:24,850 --> 00:17:29,530 S4: Yeah. So I didn't interact with many people in that way, 330 00:17:29,530 --> 00:17:32,929 S4: but I did have one opportunity to work once a 331 00:17:32,930 --> 00:17:37,250 S4: week with people who were in, like, drug related situations 332 00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:39,359 S4: in a really rough part of Tel Aviv. So we 333 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,560 S4: would go to this women's shelter, but it wasn't really 334 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,119 S4: a shelter. It was um, it was very interesting. It 335 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,040 S4: was called the Red carpet, and it was a ministry 336 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,400 S4: where they would take in all the women who were 337 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,920 S4: abusing drugs or even engaged in prostitution on the streets, 338 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,280 S4: and they would give them a place to shower, a 339 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,400 S4: place to sleep, a place to get their hair done 340 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:05,040 S4: and their nails done and a full meal, and treated 341 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,040 S4: like women, like humans, and just had a good space 342 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,720 S4: to to kind of reset for them. And that was 343 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,600 S4: a really great experience. And so I talked to this 344 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,560 S4: one woman who clearly was very passionate, very sweet. I 345 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,200 S4: think she had some mental health struggles, and she was 346 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,360 S4: telling me about just everything in her life. We had 347 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,840 S4: such a long conversation, and I got to pray with 348 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,199 S4: her and I got to encourage her. But evangelism is 349 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,159 S4: different in Israel because it's actually illegal to share the 350 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,830 S4: gospel in return for something you can't give the gospel 351 00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:40,350 S4: and then give a service or a product. And you 352 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:41,869 S4: also can't share with children. 353 00:18:41,910 --> 00:18:45,030 S1: Yeah. So somebody listening says, okay, you prayed with her. 354 00:18:45,070 --> 00:18:47,190 S1: Did you pray in Jesus name? 355 00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:50,229 S4: Yeah. It was it was a messianic ministry. So it 356 00:18:50,230 --> 00:18:52,189 S4: was clear that we were Christian. And so no. 357 00:18:52,190 --> 00:18:53,990 S1: Surprise to them if they're coming there for service. 358 00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:56,150 S4: Yes. And we talked about Jesus. She said that she 359 00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:59,389 S4: believes in Jesus just like she believes in the moon. 360 00:18:59,710 --> 00:19:02,990 S1: Okay. So she's she's a pantheistic almost. 361 00:19:03,070 --> 00:19:04,629 S4: I would probably think something like that. 362 00:19:04,630 --> 00:19:06,510 S1: But there you were, showing care to her and that 363 00:19:06,510 --> 00:19:08,270 S1: had made some kind of an impression. 364 00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:10,390 S4: Yeah, well, she really impacted me. She was a very 365 00:19:10,390 --> 00:19:13,109 S4: beautiful person and definitely hurting. 366 00:19:13,310 --> 00:19:16,430 S1: Yeah. Anna Caswell is our guest today on the land 367 00:19:16,430 --> 00:19:19,190 S1: and the book, your life and those of the people 368 00:19:19,190 --> 00:19:22,470 S1: around you were turned upside down rather abruptly in the 369 00:19:22,470 --> 00:19:24,270 S1: middle of that trip. What happened and when? 370 00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:27,869 S4: So about three and a half weeks into my five 371 00:19:27,869 --> 00:19:31,550 S4: week internship, we woke up in the morning and we 372 00:19:31,750 --> 00:19:34,390 S4: heard the news from my program director, who was very 373 00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:38,409 S4: knowledgeable about the politics of the Middle East. He was very, um, 374 00:19:38,450 --> 00:19:41,170 S4: on top of the situation, but he said the thing 375 00:19:41,170 --> 00:19:44,330 S4: that they've been sort of expecting for a while has happened. 376 00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:48,609 S4: Israel issued a strike on Iran. They assassinated a lot 377 00:19:48,609 --> 00:19:52,410 S4: of their leaders. And so we're waiting for retaliation, which 378 00:19:52,410 --> 00:19:55,210 S4: was kind of a crazy thing to hear. Yeah. Yeah. 379 00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:57,850 S4: So in the evening the bombing started. 380 00:19:58,090 --> 00:20:01,090 S1: Mhm. What were you feeling inside as all this unfolded. 381 00:20:01,130 --> 00:20:02,290 S1: I mean how afraid were you. 382 00:20:02,570 --> 00:20:05,689 S4: It's funny because I wasn't super afraid. I think it 383 00:20:05,690 --> 00:20:08,850 S4: was more surreal. It was like well okay, we're doing 384 00:20:08,850 --> 00:20:11,290 S4: this now. I guess things are changing. But it had 385 00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:14,970 S4: been a very routine. Routine. We were just cleaning, cooking, 386 00:20:15,210 --> 00:20:17,650 S4: and I had actually been, like, wondering kind of what 387 00:20:17,650 --> 00:20:19,650 S4: I was supposed to be doing there because as I said, 388 00:20:19,650 --> 00:20:22,570 S4: there weren't a lot of opportunities to meet people and 389 00:20:22,570 --> 00:20:24,649 S4: share the gospel in the way that we might think 390 00:20:24,650 --> 00:20:27,570 S4: is Christian ministry. But as soon as this happened, I 391 00:20:27,570 --> 00:20:29,850 S4: realized there's going to be a lot of opportunities to 392 00:20:30,210 --> 00:20:31,850 S4: stay present and serve. 393 00:20:32,010 --> 00:20:35,520 S1: Yeah. Well, you've got the prayers of your family, prayers 394 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,240 S1: of friends, your church getting you through this season. What 395 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,160 S1: do you recall of the people around you? How did 396 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,160 S1: they handle news of that attack? 397 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,080 S4: It was really interesting to see the Israelis reaction, the 398 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,760 S4: some of the messianic friends at the guest house and 399 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:52,840 S4: in the community. It's very tight knit. And then just 400 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:55,120 S4: the neighbors that we would see in the bomb shelters, 401 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,400 S4: many of them were very scared, but many of them 402 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,680 S4: were kind of concerned, like, serious. But they clearly had 403 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,320 S4: been through this before. It wasn't like. 404 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:05,240 S1: Right. 405 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,480 S4: As big of a deal to them as some of 406 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:08,720 S4: the American guests. 407 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,520 S1: So for Americans who've never been in a bomb shelter, 408 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:13,160 S1: describe one in Israel. 409 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,680 S4: So the bomb shelter that we went was the basement 410 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,720 S4: of Beit Emanuel, which was the bomb shelter for the neighborhood. 411 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,280 S4: But it wasn't a proper bomb shelter. It really reminded 412 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,600 S4: me of a church basement. There were three different rooms, 413 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,000 S4: and we just set up chairs. And even when the 414 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,960 S4: bombings were pretty bad, we were setting up mattresses because 415 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,550 S4: there was a lot of kids staying and trying to 416 00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:37,270 S4: sleep in the bomb shelters, but definitely very makeshift at 417 00:21:37,310 --> 00:21:38,790 S4: this particular location. 418 00:21:38,830 --> 00:21:41,510 S1: And how confident were you in the bomb proofness of 419 00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:42,869 S1: your bomb shelter? 420 00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:47,669 S4: I would say not very confident, but that wasn't a 421 00:21:47,710 --> 00:21:50,790 S4: huge worry for me because it seemed like I don't 422 00:21:50,830 --> 00:21:53,270 S4: know if it was if something was going to happen, 423 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:54,750 S4: it was going to happen, we would deal with it. 424 00:21:54,750 --> 00:21:58,590 S4: And there was a scary moment. Um, because bombs were 425 00:21:58,590 --> 00:22:02,190 S4: falling within a mile of the building. Wow. And, um. 426 00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:03,070 S1: You're hearing them? 427 00:22:03,109 --> 00:22:07,230 S4: Yeah. Hearing them. And you could see the Iron Dome 428 00:22:07,670 --> 00:22:10,510 S4: shooting down the missiles. But that was normal because there's 429 00:22:10,510 --> 00:22:13,870 S4: pretty much constant missile fire, but not in the same way. 430 00:22:14,150 --> 00:22:17,070 S4: So this was kind of unique for Tel Aviv that 431 00:22:17,070 --> 00:22:21,150 S4: there were bombs hitting the ground in such a rate. 432 00:22:21,150 --> 00:22:23,909 S4: So there was a bomb that hit within a mile 433 00:22:23,910 --> 00:22:27,990 S4: of our location and the whole room, like, shook and 434 00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:30,750 S4: the windows shook, and there wasn't a window, but it 435 00:22:30,750 --> 00:22:33,060 S4: was like an opening to kind of like a above 436 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:37,020 S4: ground open area. And we had put cardboard over it 437 00:22:37,020 --> 00:22:39,580 S4: and it was like flapping, and everyone was like, get 438 00:22:39,580 --> 00:22:42,020 S4: away from the window. And so that was probably the 439 00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:44,900 S4: moment where my heart was beating the fastest. But other 440 00:22:44,900 --> 00:22:46,180 S4: than that, it was a lot of waiting, a lot 441 00:22:46,180 --> 00:22:48,420 S4: of being woken up, a lot of all clear. Okay, 442 00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:49,100 S4: go back to bed. 443 00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:53,140 S1: Anna Caswell is a Jewish studies major at Moody Bible Institute. 444 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:55,300 S1: You were then told you had to get out of 445 00:22:55,340 --> 00:22:57,780 S1: there and make travel arrangements. How difficult was that to 446 00:22:57,780 --> 00:22:59,220 S1: try and get home to the USA? 447 00:22:59,980 --> 00:23:03,500 S4: Yeah, that was difficult because I knew that the Israelis 448 00:23:03,500 --> 00:23:05,859 S4: couldn't leave. Like, it was really just people with American 449 00:23:05,859 --> 00:23:09,100 S4: passports that could make the trip across the border to 450 00:23:09,140 --> 00:23:12,180 S4: Jordan and then fly out of Jordan. That wasn't really 451 00:23:12,180 --> 00:23:14,540 S4: an option. And I had a friend from Moody, actually, 452 00:23:14,580 --> 00:23:17,500 S4: who was Israeli, and his wife is American, and they 453 00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:19,820 S4: couldn't leave, even though they had planned for their trip 454 00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:22,580 S4: to end, and it just felt difficult to leave at 455 00:23:22,619 --> 00:23:24,860 S4: like a time when it seemed like our team was 456 00:23:24,859 --> 00:23:28,100 S4: getting closer and we were really finding areas to serve. 457 00:23:28,619 --> 00:23:31,689 S4: But I understand that the ministry thought it was better 458 00:23:31,690 --> 00:23:36,290 S4: if all the Americans were leaving. So I had a 459 00:23:36,290 --> 00:23:39,810 S4: few stressful nights because we were so sleep deprived, because 460 00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:42,250 S4: the bombings would happen at night, and then a lot 461 00:23:42,290 --> 00:23:44,410 S4: of people would sleep during the day. But I had 462 00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:47,490 S4: responsibilities to cook for the people who were kind of 463 00:23:47,530 --> 00:23:51,330 S4: like trapped in the guesthouse because our cook had left 464 00:23:51,369 --> 00:23:54,929 S4: right as the airports closed. And so the new cook 465 00:23:54,930 --> 00:23:57,450 S4: that was supposed to come in didn't come in. So 466 00:23:57,570 --> 00:24:01,129 S4: I found like a real opportunity to step up, because 467 00:24:01,130 --> 00:24:03,250 S4: I had been taught how to use the kitchen and 468 00:24:03,250 --> 00:24:06,050 S4: they had all these vegetables that were going bad. So anyway, 469 00:24:06,050 --> 00:24:08,770 S4: I was working through the day, cooking and then not 470 00:24:08,770 --> 00:24:12,450 S4: sleeping at night. So I was very stressed at the 471 00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:14,610 S4: point where I had to buy my plane ticket and 472 00:24:14,609 --> 00:24:18,250 S4: they kept getting cancelled. And so eventually I bought a 473 00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:23,490 S4: $2,500 ticket one way to Chicago, which was amazing that 474 00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:27,330 S4: it was straight from Amman to Chicago. But yeah, that 475 00:24:27,369 --> 00:24:29,840 S4: that hurt a little bit. But in the end it 476 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,720 S4: was the right one because all the other flights got 477 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,080 S4: cancelled besides that one. 478 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,520 S1: Yeah. God was watching out for you. 479 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,040 S4: Absolutely. And so many people were praying for me, and 480 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:41,040 S4: I didn't realize until I got back and everyone was 481 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,040 S4: so sweet and and some people even started crying, and 482 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,439 S4: I was like, wow, I didn't I wasn't really crying 483 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,720 S4: for myself, you know? And then all the stress. But 484 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:50,359 S4: they were so caring. 485 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,520 S1: Well, God was watching over you and we're glad he did. 486 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,600 S1: But if you had the chance to go back and 487 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,800 S1: finish what you didn't get to finish in that internship 488 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,479 S1: or start a new internship, what would you choose to 489 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,800 S1: do in Israel again if it was totally up to you? 490 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,400 S4: That's a great question. I didn't get to visit the 491 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,360 S4: old city at all in Jerusalem. I was only in 492 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,600 S4: Tel Aviv, which was cool in a way, because I 493 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,040 S4: really got to see the character of that city, which 494 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,080 S4: is very unique within Israel. I think that I would 495 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:25,960 S4: find ways to work with different ministries more closely. Um, 496 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,790 S4: like it was a blessing to be serving at Beit Emanuel, 497 00:25:29,030 --> 00:25:31,790 S4: but it was a bit isolated in. The thing that 498 00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:33,790 S4: I was doing. So I would just I would just 499 00:25:33,790 --> 00:25:35,510 S4: want to go back and I would want to dive 500 00:25:35,510 --> 00:25:36,830 S4: in with more confidence. 501 00:25:36,990 --> 00:25:39,750 S1: And I think maybe you just might. Thank you so 502 00:25:39,750 --> 00:25:42,390 S1: much for your time, for your heart, for Jewish people, 503 00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:43,830 S1: and for sharing that with us. 504 00:25:44,030 --> 00:25:46,070 S4: Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate 505 00:25:46,070 --> 00:25:47,510 S4: the chance to share about it. 506 00:25:47,550 --> 00:25:49,990 S1: And you did a great job. We're looking forward to questions. 507 00:25:49,990 --> 00:25:52,990 S1: Your questions. We're looking forward to Gerald Peterman's answers. That's 508 00:25:52,990 --> 00:26:07,070 S1: coming up next on the Land and the book. You 509 00:26:07,070 --> 00:26:10,310 S1: know what time it is? Time for questions and answers. 510 00:26:10,470 --> 00:26:12,830 S1: This is the land and the book. Segment three I'm 511 00:26:12,830 --> 00:26:16,270 S1: John Yeager, seated across from the one, the only doctor 512 00:26:16,270 --> 00:26:17,590 S1: Gerald Peterman. Welcome. 513 00:26:17,950 --> 00:26:19,830 S5: What time is it? It's a good time. 514 00:26:19,869 --> 00:26:21,629 S1: That's right. It's always a good time to open the 515 00:26:21,630 --> 00:26:24,630 S1: word ponder, scratch your head. And in our case, get 516 00:26:24,630 --> 00:26:27,300 S1: some answers to the questions that have been rolling around. 517 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:29,020 S1: We're going to get to some of those after this 518 00:26:29,020 --> 00:26:32,220 S1: quick thought. What does Passover mean for us as believers 519 00:26:32,220 --> 00:26:34,940 S1: in Jesus? Some might remember the story from the book 520 00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:37,300 S1: of Exodus, but there is so much more to it. 521 00:26:37,420 --> 00:26:39,899 S1: Did you know, for example, that the Last Supper was 522 00:26:40,220 --> 00:26:44,060 S1: a Passover meal? Not only did Jesus and his disciples 523 00:26:44,060 --> 00:26:47,580 S1: celebrate Passover, but it also foreshadowed his death on the 524 00:26:47,580 --> 00:26:51,660 S1: cross for our redemption. Passover is an amazing connection point 525 00:26:51,660 --> 00:26:54,780 S1: with our Jewish friends, both around the world and across 526 00:26:54,780 --> 00:26:57,780 S1: the street. Jewish people have been keeping this feast for 527 00:26:57,820 --> 00:27:01,300 S1: thousands of years, and understanding the importance of this holiday 528 00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:05,060 S1: and its history helps you better understand these precious people. 529 00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:08,300 S1: And what better way to learn than to experience a 530 00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:13,420 S1: Passover Seder yourself? If you've never celebrated Passover well, our 531 00:27:13,420 --> 00:27:15,940 S1: friends at Life in Messiah would love to partner with 532 00:27:15,940 --> 00:27:19,700 S1: you in hosting a Seder experience. Every year, their staff 533 00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:23,940 S1: engage churches and small groups in an interactive Messiah in 534 00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:27,169 S1: the Passover Seder, where you can taste and see the 535 00:27:27,170 --> 00:27:30,730 S1: redemption story. If you're interested in having somebody come lead 536 00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:34,810 S1: a Seder in your area, visit Life in Messiah and 537 00:27:34,810 --> 00:27:37,689 S1: click on the radio button to learn more. That's life 538 00:27:37,690 --> 00:27:42,730 S1: in Messiah. Let's dig into our questions. Boy, there's a 539 00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:45,610 S1: big stack of them. So no time to waste. Bill 540 00:27:45,609 --> 00:27:49,650 S1: asks when Moses disobeyed by striking the rock instead of 541 00:27:49,650 --> 00:27:53,330 S1: speaking to it. It's recorded that God punished Moses by 542 00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:56,330 S1: not allowing him to enter the Promised Land. It seems 543 00:27:56,330 --> 00:27:58,690 S1: to me, says Bill, that Aaron committed a greater sin 544 00:27:58,730 --> 00:28:01,930 S1: of idolatry in yielding to the people's demand of making 545 00:28:01,930 --> 00:28:04,530 S1: an idol. It puzzles me, then, that God did not 546 00:28:04,530 --> 00:28:08,170 S1: harshly punish Aaron as he did Moses. Or at least 547 00:28:08,170 --> 00:28:10,530 S1: I'm not seeing it recorded your thoughts? 548 00:28:10,570 --> 00:28:12,850 S5: Well, Bill and I are both concerned about the justice 549 00:28:12,850 --> 00:28:15,970 S5: of God, so I'd say let's go to numbers 20 550 00:28:16,410 --> 00:28:19,170 S5: and verse ten. Here's what we read. Then Moses and 551 00:28:19,170 --> 00:28:22,250 S5: Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock. And he 552 00:28:22,290 --> 00:28:25,790 S5: said to them, Here now, you rebels, shall we bring 553 00:28:25,790 --> 00:28:28,790 S5: water for you out of the rock? And Moses lifted 554 00:28:28,790 --> 00:28:31,830 S5: up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice. 555 00:28:32,070 --> 00:28:34,990 S5: And the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank. 556 00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:39,470 S5: Now wait. Verse 12. And the Lord said to Moses 557 00:28:39,470 --> 00:28:44,150 S5: and Aaron, because you that's a plural. You, because y'all 558 00:28:44,430 --> 00:28:46,510 S5: didn't believe in me, to uphold me as holy in 559 00:28:46,510 --> 00:28:50,310 S5: the eyes of the people. Therefore, y'all shall not bring 560 00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:53,910 S5: this assembly into the land. So in other words, they 561 00:28:53,910 --> 00:28:57,430 S5: both suffer the same punishment for their disobedience. And we 562 00:28:57,430 --> 00:29:01,150 S5: read later in Deuteronomy ten, Aaron dies and then Deuteronomy 34, 563 00:29:01,430 --> 00:29:02,510 S5: Moses dies. 564 00:29:02,630 --> 00:29:05,710 S1: Yeah, okay. That's the answer. Bill, check that out for yourself. 565 00:29:05,710 --> 00:29:08,110 S1: Thank you, though, for bringing that to our attention. Jerry. 566 00:29:08,430 --> 00:29:11,150 S1: Sally says somebody close to me in my family is 567 00:29:11,150 --> 00:29:15,750 S1: deconstructing his faith. He says there's not much evidence for Christianity. 568 00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:18,270 S1: Others in the family are solid in faith, but we 569 00:29:18,270 --> 00:29:21,430 S1: don't have good responses to the direction he's taking. Any 570 00:29:21,430 --> 00:29:22,420 S1: advice for them? 571 00:29:22,900 --> 00:29:25,540 S5: Oh, this is very sad. And I'm sure you're praying 572 00:29:25,660 --> 00:29:28,620 S5: and this grieves you. Let me mention three things. First, 573 00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:32,420 S5: as you point out, it's very important to hang on 574 00:29:32,460 --> 00:29:36,780 S5: to your own faith. Be patient. Continue to love. Continue 575 00:29:36,780 --> 00:29:41,420 S5: to pray. Listen carefully to your family member who's deconstructing 576 00:29:41,420 --> 00:29:44,500 S5: the faith. Try to understand what he's saying. Try to 577 00:29:44,540 --> 00:29:47,900 S5: sympathize as much as you can. And then, of course, 578 00:29:47,940 --> 00:29:52,980 S5: keep on challenging his doubts and his presuppositions. I can 579 00:29:52,980 --> 00:29:57,820 S5: recommend number two, a really helpful little book by Peter Williams. 580 00:29:57,860 --> 00:30:00,060 S5: It's called Can We Trust the Gospels? Of course, the 581 00:30:00,060 --> 00:30:04,460 S5: answer is yes we can. Right. And it's published by Crossway, 2018. 582 00:30:04,620 --> 00:30:07,860 S5: Here is a key issue. Many people who deconstruct their 583 00:30:07,860 --> 00:30:10,860 S5: faith say, well, you can't trust the gospels. They made 584 00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:12,860 S5: up these stories. There's not good evidence for them. The 585 00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:15,940 S5: manuscripts do not support it. No. But Peter Williams book 586 00:30:15,940 --> 00:30:19,420 S5: is clear, straightforward. And so I'd say get a copy. 587 00:30:19,460 --> 00:30:23,210 S5: Share a copy. That's a wonderful little book. Third, why 588 00:30:23,210 --> 00:30:26,290 S5: is it that some people who are formerly Christian or 589 00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:30,530 S5: asserted they were Christian deconstruct their faith? Well, really, it's 590 00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:33,330 S5: because of church hurt. It's not so much because of 591 00:30:33,330 --> 00:30:35,930 S5: a particular passage of Scripture. It's not so much because 592 00:30:36,410 --> 00:30:40,810 S5: they're wondering about apologetics. No. They've been hurt by someone 593 00:30:40,850 --> 00:30:45,010 S5: or they're disappointed in God. And we all are at 594 00:30:45,010 --> 00:30:47,610 S5: some point, aren't we? I think, Jobe, I think at 595 00:30:47,610 --> 00:30:50,690 S5: some point Jobe was disappointed with God. And they come 596 00:30:50,690 --> 00:30:53,530 S5: to the place where they're hurting so much they give 597 00:30:53,530 --> 00:30:58,530 S5: up the faith. So primarily deconstructing the faith is not intellectual. 598 00:30:58,530 --> 00:31:03,290 S5: It's emotional. So be emotionally connected. And as far as 599 00:31:03,290 --> 00:31:07,090 S5: you can, sympathize with that hurt, because you will be 600 00:31:07,090 --> 00:31:10,650 S5: then loving and opening the door to more conversation. 601 00:31:10,690 --> 00:31:14,250 S1: I like that that's so good. Very practical. Doctor Gerald 602 00:31:14,250 --> 00:31:17,330 S1: Peterman serves on the faculty of Moody Bible Institute. He's 603 00:31:17,330 --> 00:31:19,330 S1: a guy with a heart, and I like that about him. 604 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,160 S1: And in addition, he's a pretty sharp guy too when 605 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,080 S1: it comes to knowledge of the Bible. That's why your 606 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,600 S1: question is always welcome. His door is always open if 607 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,440 S1: you'll email us at The Land and the book at. 608 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,680 S1: The land and the book at, Carroll writes, as I 609 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,600 S1: understand Deuteronomy 24, verses one through four, they prohibit remarrying 610 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,600 S1: an ex-spouse after they have married another, even when termination 611 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,480 S1: to the other marriage is due to divorce or death, 612 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:53,680 S1: because this is an abomination before the Lord. So two questions. One, 613 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,680 S1: because the wording is so strong, by calling this an abomination, 614 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,320 S1: does the Deuteronomy 24 law apply to New Testament believers? 615 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,120 S1: I cannot understand how it would not apply. And two 616 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,440 S1: in general, how do we know what laws in the 617 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,960 S1: Old Testament apply in the New Testament? 618 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,520 S5: Oh, this is a very important question. Let's go to 619 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:19,990 S5: Deuteronomy 24. If a man finds something indecent in his 620 00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:22,470 S5: wife and then sends her away and she remarries. This 621 00:32:22,470 --> 00:32:27,070 S5: is a conditional statement. What is this? Indecency? Most commentators agree, 622 00:32:27,070 --> 00:32:29,990 S5: and I think they're right. This is some kind of 623 00:32:29,990 --> 00:32:34,350 S5: sexual immorality. So if she marries someone else, she is 624 00:32:34,350 --> 00:32:38,910 S5: still proven herself to be immoral. The abomination is welcoming 625 00:32:38,910 --> 00:32:42,830 S5: her back with no repentance, no change of life. But 626 00:32:42,830 --> 00:32:45,390 S5: to get back to the second question. And that is. 627 00:32:45,550 --> 00:32:49,310 S5: What about Old Testament laws? And which one of them 628 00:32:49,310 --> 00:32:52,870 S5: are applicable to us as Christians? The short answer is, 629 00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:57,070 S5: I take it that no Old Testament law is required 630 00:32:57,070 --> 00:33:00,390 S5: of the Christian. Wait wait wait. There's a whole lot 631 00:33:00,430 --> 00:33:03,350 S5: of really great wisdom in her Old Testament. I'm saying 632 00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:05,710 S5: people read it, read it over and over and over again. 633 00:33:05,710 --> 00:33:09,270 S5: But what does Paul tell us in Romans seven? We 634 00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:12,870 S5: were made to die to the law through the body 635 00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:15,070 S5: of Christ, that we might be wedded to another. Dying 636 00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:18,380 S5: to the law means its requirements are no longer obligatory 637 00:33:18,380 --> 00:33:21,100 S5: to us, so we are set free from the law. 638 00:33:21,140 --> 00:33:23,739 S5: The short answer is, I take it that no Old 639 00:33:23,780 --> 00:33:27,940 S5: Testament commandment is a covenant obligation for the Christian. 640 00:33:27,980 --> 00:33:30,220 S1: Having said that, there are many, many laws from the 641 00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:34,300 S1: Old Testament that are actually quoted in and are reinstated, 642 00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:35,380 S1: if you will, in the New Testament. 643 00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:37,740 S5: Oh, John, I'm so glad you brought that up. And 644 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:42,460 S5: that is, if the laws are repeated, then obviously they're applicable. 645 00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:44,660 S5: So thanks so much for catching that, brother. I really 646 00:33:44,660 --> 00:33:46,860 S5: appreciate it. So let's think about the Big Ten, not 647 00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:49,660 S5: the Football Conference. The ten commandments. 648 00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:51,340 S1: I'm an Illini fan, but go on. 649 00:33:51,460 --> 00:33:54,460 S5: Um, I'll forgive you for that anyway. So let's think 650 00:33:54,460 --> 00:33:57,980 S5: about the Ten Commandments of Moses. Nine of those ten 651 00:33:57,980 --> 00:34:00,940 S5: are repeated in the New Testament in some way or another, 652 00:34:01,140 --> 00:34:06,460 S5: except for the Sabbath commandment, which is not repeated. So yes, 653 00:34:06,460 --> 00:34:09,140 S5: let's be careful to see how the New Testament might 654 00:34:09,180 --> 00:34:11,060 S5: repeat an Old Testament command. 655 00:34:11,100 --> 00:34:14,899 S1: Okay. Great answer. Thank you. Eric says I've been in 656 00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,810 S1: contact with some Christians who pray for people who have 657 00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:20,850 S1: recently died praying for their souls. Some of these same 658 00:34:20,850 --> 00:34:24,170 S1: people also pray or talk to saints, such as the 659 00:34:24,170 --> 00:34:27,089 S1: Mother of Jesus, asking them to pray for us. I 660 00:34:27,090 --> 00:34:29,089 S1: just wonder if the Bible sheds any light on these 661 00:34:29,090 --> 00:34:31,210 S1: prayers and if these are good prayers. 662 00:34:31,250 --> 00:34:34,770 S5: Oh, thanks so much, Eric. The first issue praying for 663 00:34:34,770 --> 00:34:39,410 S5: those who've died. This is a typical Roman Catholic practice 664 00:34:39,410 --> 00:34:42,410 S5: because our brothers and sisters in the Roman Catholic Church 665 00:34:42,450 --> 00:34:48,169 S5: often believe in purgatory, a place where a believer goes 666 00:34:48,170 --> 00:34:51,810 S5: to have sins purged away before the person then goes 667 00:34:51,810 --> 00:34:53,969 S5: into the presence of God. I don't believe in such 668 00:34:53,969 --> 00:34:55,770 S5: a place. I don't believe in such a place because 669 00:34:55,770 --> 00:34:59,210 S5: of what Paul says in Philippians. When he's a prisoner 670 00:34:59,210 --> 00:35:00,970 S5: and he's not sure if he's going to live or die, 671 00:35:01,450 --> 00:35:04,770 S5: he says, if I depart, that is, if I die, 672 00:35:04,810 --> 00:35:09,969 S5: I will be with Christ. There's no intermediary place of 673 00:35:10,010 --> 00:35:15,629 S5: further punishment, but about praying to saints on the one hand, 674 00:35:15,830 --> 00:35:19,270 S5: it's so true that Mary gives us an example of 675 00:35:19,270 --> 00:35:22,670 S5: amazing faith. We just come through a season where we 676 00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:24,149 S5: give a lot of focus on Mary, and I think 677 00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:28,069 S5: appropriately so, because when the angel comes to her, how 678 00:35:28,070 --> 00:35:30,910 S5: she receives the gift of God and she's just so 679 00:35:30,950 --> 00:35:34,310 S5: willing to serve, it's just absolutely amazing. So we can 680 00:35:34,630 --> 00:35:38,390 S5: look to her as an amazing example of faith, but 681 00:35:38,390 --> 00:35:41,710 S5: to pray to her. Hmm. Now let's think about this 682 00:35:41,710 --> 00:35:45,270 S5: for just a minute. Suppose you have a billion people 683 00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:49,750 S5: in the world praying to Mary. This makes her omniscient. 684 00:35:49,790 --> 00:35:50,270 S1: Yeah. 685 00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:55,110 S5: This makes her nearly omnipotent. Sorry, folks, only God has 686 00:35:55,110 --> 00:35:58,310 S5: those powers. So I do not encourage praying to Mary 687 00:35:58,310 --> 00:36:02,070 S5: or the saints, even though they have got exemplary lives. 688 00:36:02,110 --> 00:36:05,070 S1: Yeah. And we see no references to this in Scripture itself. 689 00:36:05,110 --> 00:36:06,390 S5: Exactly. Exactly. 690 00:36:06,870 --> 00:36:09,589 S1: And to the other point, you know about purgatory. It 691 00:36:09,590 --> 00:36:12,150 S1: says in Hebrews 927, it is appointed unto man once 692 00:36:12,150 --> 00:36:15,180 S1: to die, and after this, not purgatory. It's the judgment 693 00:36:15,219 --> 00:36:15,820 S1: comes judgment. 694 00:36:15,860 --> 00:36:17,380 S5: Oh, John, thanks for bringing that up. 695 00:36:17,540 --> 00:36:20,700 S1: Yeah, well, lots of good questions and some great answers today. 696 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:23,460 S1: And your question is welcome again as you email us 697 00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:27,779 S1: at the land and the book at Moody's. That's the 698 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:32,459 S1: land and the book at Moody's. Our podcast is waiting 699 00:36:32,460 --> 00:36:34,540 S1: for you at the website, the land and the book. 700 00:36:35,140 --> 00:36:36,980 S1: It's a great way for you to hear it all 701 00:36:36,980 --> 00:36:39,620 S1: again or to share us with your friends again. You'll 702 00:36:39,620 --> 00:36:44,299 S1: find us online at The Land and the book. We're 703 00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:47,300 S1: not done yet. No one more terrific segment to come. 704 00:36:47,460 --> 00:36:50,379 S1: It's Charlie Dyer's devotional. For many, it's a favorite. You'll 705 00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:52,100 S1: see what I'm talking about as you hang out with 706 00:36:52,100 --> 00:36:54,739 S1: us here for the next segment on the Land and 707 00:36:54,739 --> 00:37:10,700 S1: the book. Happy New Year. You've heard it a lot, right? 708 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:12,890 S1: We'll hear it again from your friends at the land. 709 00:37:12,890 --> 00:37:14,890 S1: In the book, I'm John Gager with our host, Doctor 710 00:37:14,890 --> 00:37:18,169 S1: Charlie Dyer, and some of us have already, I mean 711 00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:22,130 S1: already packed away Christmas. But your devotional today says maybe 712 00:37:22,130 --> 00:37:23,049 S1: not so fast. 713 00:37:23,290 --> 00:37:25,650 S2: That's right. There are still a few gifts left to open. 714 00:37:25,650 --> 00:37:27,770 S1: Okay, we'll look forward to that. In your devotional coming 715 00:37:27,770 --> 00:37:30,089 S1: up right now, let's hear a testimony from someone who's 716 00:37:30,090 --> 00:37:32,690 S1: been to the Holy Land and shares this with you 717 00:37:32,690 --> 00:37:33,210 S1: and me. 718 00:37:37,690 --> 00:37:41,049 S6: My name is Mark Hikey. I'm. One day our group 719 00:37:41,050 --> 00:37:43,370 S6: went out on the Sea of Galilee. It was a 720 00:37:43,370 --> 00:37:47,250 S6: dark day. It was cloudy. Uh, it was sprinkling a 721 00:37:47,250 --> 00:37:49,729 S6: little bit. We got on the boat. We went out 722 00:37:49,730 --> 00:37:52,169 S6: in the middle of the Sea of Galilee. Um, they 723 00:37:52,170 --> 00:37:54,290 S6: turned off the engines and we got out in the middle, 724 00:37:54,610 --> 00:37:56,370 S6: and we just sat in the midst of the storm. 725 00:37:56,370 --> 00:37:58,610 S6: The wind was blowing and there was a little lightning 726 00:37:58,610 --> 00:38:02,130 S6: in the background. It was raining. Um, we read the 727 00:38:02,130 --> 00:38:05,170 S6: account from Mark chapter four, the account of Jesus calming 728 00:38:05,170 --> 00:38:09,529 S6: the storm. Um, we sang what a friend we have 729 00:38:09,530 --> 00:38:13,880 S6: in Jesus we had a prayer. Within 30s the clouds 730 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:19,440 S6: began to leave. The sun began to peek through and 731 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,160 S6: the rain quit falling. And it was just an awesome 732 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,359 S6: reminder that God is still with us and that he's 733 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:27,280 S6: still in control. 734 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,040 S1: Charlie, some unopened Christmas presents. I'm looking forward to hearing 735 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,440 S1: where you're headed with your devotional. 736 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,640 S2: Thanks, John. Yeah. You know, Christmas Day might be past, 737 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,040 S2: but the Christmas story is not. We've opened up all 738 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,480 S2: our presents. But the presents for Jesus haven't yet arrived. 739 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,880 S2: Let's go back to Bethlehem and look more closely at 740 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,640 S2: the details of his birth. On the night he was born, 741 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,719 S2: a heavenly host of angels blasted away the darkness to 742 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,880 S2: announce his birth to the shepherds. They went to Bethlehem 743 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,440 S2: to find Mary, Joseph, and the baby, who was swaddled 744 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:01,400 S2: in strips of cloth and lying in a manger, just 745 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,160 S2: as they had been told. Eight days after his birth, 746 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,640 S2: the baby was circumcised and named Jesus Yeshua. The Hebrew 747 00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:11,910 S2: name Joshua, which means the Lord is salvation. 40 days 748 00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:15,190 S2: after his birth, Joseph, Mary and Jesus made the five 749 00:39:15,230 --> 00:39:18,270 S2: mile journey to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord, 750 00:39:18,270 --> 00:39:21,350 S2: as Luke describes it. They made this trip in strict 751 00:39:21,350 --> 00:39:24,950 S2: obedience to the law of Moses, fulfilling the command given 752 00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:27,790 S2: in Leviticus 12. The fact that they offered a pair 753 00:39:27,790 --> 00:39:30,910 S2: of doves or two young pigeons tells us something about 754 00:39:30,910 --> 00:39:33,989 S2: the financial condition of this young family. You see, the 755 00:39:33,989 --> 00:39:36,390 S2: law said the woman was to bring a year old 756 00:39:36,390 --> 00:39:39,270 S2: lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon, or 757 00:39:39,310 --> 00:39:42,149 S2: a dove for a sin offering. But then it made 758 00:39:42,150 --> 00:39:44,950 S2: allowance for those without the financial means to do so. 759 00:39:45,110 --> 00:39:48,110 S2: Leviticus 12 eight says, if she cannot afford a lamb, 760 00:39:48,110 --> 00:39:50,509 S2: she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons. 761 00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:53,990 S2: Joseph and Mary couldn't afford the cost of a lamb. 762 00:39:54,469 --> 00:39:56,989 S2: The Gospel of Matthew picks up the account of Jesus's 763 00:39:56,989 --> 00:40:00,190 S2: birth from this point. Mary and Joseph must have traveled 764 00:40:00,190 --> 00:40:03,830 S2: back to Bethlehem and resided there for some time. Herod 765 00:40:03,830 --> 00:40:06,270 S2: is still king, though the end of his despotic reign 766 00:40:06,270 --> 00:40:09,700 S2: was drawing near. Somehow the birth of this rival king 767 00:40:09,700 --> 00:40:12,859 S2: had escaped his notice. That is, until a caravan of 768 00:40:12,860 --> 00:40:16,660 S2: wise men rode into Jerusalem. Tradition has fixed the number 769 00:40:16,660 --> 00:40:19,339 S2: of wise men at three, and even supplied us with 770 00:40:19,340 --> 00:40:22,420 S2: their names. But the Bible tells us neither the number 771 00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:25,740 S2: of wise men nor their names. What the Bible does 772 00:40:25,739 --> 00:40:29,420 S2: tell us, however, is quite revealing. Matthew describes these travelers 773 00:40:29,420 --> 00:40:32,339 S2: as Magi from the East, and this has led to 774 00:40:32,380 --> 00:40:36,380 S2: some speculation. Some believe these travelers were from Babylon and 775 00:40:36,380 --> 00:40:39,100 S2: traced their interest in the birth of the Messiah back 776 00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:41,620 S2: to the time of Daniel, who was placed in charge 777 00:40:41,620 --> 00:40:44,420 S2: of the wise men of Babylon. Others see in the 778 00:40:44,580 --> 00:40:48,540 S2: Magi links to the Persians from modern day Iran. Magi 779 00:40:48,580 --> 00:40:52,939 S2: were the priestly caste of the Persian Zoroastrian religion. They 780 00:40:52,940 --> 00:40:56,779 S2: paid particular attention to astronomy and astrology. Certainly they would 781 00:40:56,820 --> 00:41:00,259 S2: have noticed an unusual and unexpected star in the sky. 782 00:41:00,620 --> 00:41:02,140 S2: But I'm not sure if we can read too much 783 00:41:02,180 --> 00:41:05,540 S2: into their identification based on this one word. It was 784 00:41:05,540 --> 00:41:09,649 S2: used to describe people from Persia, Babylon, and even a 785 00:41:09,650 --> 00:41:13,290 S2: Jewish false prophet on the island of Cyprus. There is 786 00:41:13,290 --> 00:41:16,170 S2: a third possibility for the identity of the wise men, 787 00:41:16,170 --> 00:41:19,250 S2: one that's not as well known. It's possible that these 788 00:41:19,250 --> 00:41:22,930 S2: wise men were sheiks, Arab princes of the desert who 789 00:41:22,930 --> 00:41:26,330 S2: came to find the Messiah. And the possibility isn't as 790 00:41:26,330 --> 00:41:29,410 S2: far fetched as it might first seem. There's an overlooked 791 00:41:29,410 --> 00:41:32,330 S2: prophecy tucked within the folds of the Book of Isaiah. 792 00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:36,770 S2: It's a fascinating prediction found in Isaiah 60, a section 793 00:41:36,770 --> 00:41:42,090 S2: of the book looking forward to God's promised Kingdom. Isaiah writes. Arise, shine, 794 00:41:42,090 --> 00:41:44,330 S2: for your light has come, and the glory of the 795 00:41:44,330 --> 00:41:47,730 S2: Lord has risen upon you. The wealth of the nations 796 00:41:47,730 --> 00:41:50,890 S2: shall come to you. A multitude of camels will cover you. 797 00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:53,770 S2: The young camels of Midian and Ephah all those from 798 00:41:53,770 --> 00:41:57,130 S2: Sheba shall come, and they will bring gold and frankincense, 799 00:41:57,130 --> 00:41:59,850 S2: and will bear good news of the praises of the Lord. 800 00:42:00,570 --> 00:42:03,210 S2: A light will shine, and men will come on. Camels 801 00:42:03,210 --> 00:42:07,360 S2: from the Arab kingdoms to the east, bearing gold and frankincense. 802 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,680 S2: Sound familiar? The groups named by Isaiah are Arab tribes 803 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,240 S2: from the Arabian Peninsula. Now let's return to the events 804 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,200 S2: surrounding Christ's birth. Herod and everyone else in Jerusalem must 805 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:21,600 S2: not have seen the star when it first appeared at 806 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,160 S2: the time of Christ's birth. But these wise men had, 807 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,279 S2: after their meeting with Herod, the star reappeared to the 808 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,160 S2: wise men and stood over the house in Bethlehem to 809 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,120 S2: which it led them. Now think about that. This was 810 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,040 S2: more than just a mere star or planet or meteor 811 00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,520 S2: or comet. They could point you in a general direction, 812 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,400 S2: but they couldn't specify a specific house in a small village. 813 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,040 S2: So what was the star? Could the original sign in 814 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,840 S2: the sky have been the angelic choir that first appeared 815 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,440 S2: to the shepherds? The glow in the sky must have 816 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,920 S2: been visible for miles, perhaps for hundreds of miles. Could 817 00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:59,360 S2: this be what the wise men saw that first night? 818 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,680 S2: Certainly it's possible. And the reappearance of an angel could 819 00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,540 S2: be the star that guided the wise men to Bethlehem, 820 00:43:05,739 --> 00:43:08,620 S2: and to the very house where Jesus and his parents 821 00:43:08,620 --> 00:43:11,580 S2: were staying. The wise men must have departed from Herod 822 00:43:11,580 --> 00:43:14,540 S2: in late afternoon or early evening. I say this because 823 00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:16,940 S2: the Bible tells us the star appeared to them as 824 00:43:16,940 --> 00:43:19,500 S2: they traveled to Bethlehem, and it was only a five 825 00:43:19,540 --> 00:43:22,620 S2: mile journey. Herod must have calculated how long it would 826 00:43:22,620 --> 00:43:25,540 S2: take for the wise men to accomplish his bidding. Two 827 00:43:25,540 --> 00:43:28,299 S2: hours or less to ride to Bethlehem, an hour or 828 00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:30,660 S2: so to search for the child. Perhaps it'd be too 829 00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:33,180 S2: late to return to Jerusalem that night, but they should 830 00:43:33,180 --> 00:43:36,899 S2: definitely be reporting back the next morning. The wise men 831 00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:40,739 S2: and Joseph had their separate dreams that very night. Joseph 832 00:43:40,739 --> 00:43:44,100 S2: and Mary left early the next morning, fleeing toward Egypt, 833 00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:47,500 S2: while the wise men hastily sought another roadway back to 834 00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:51,620 S2: the east, one that avoided Jerusalem. How long did Herod 835 00:43:51,620 --> 00:43:56,100 S2: wait before sending his soldiers to Bethlehem, knowing Herod? Not 836 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,500 S2: too long. And that brings us back to Mary, Joseph 837 00:43:59,500 --> 00:44:03,290 S2: and Jesus, to the Christmas gifts and to us. How 838 00:44:03,290 --> 00:44:06,290 S2: could a family so poor that it couldn't even afford 839 00:44:06,290 --> 00:44:09,730 S2: the normal temple sacrifice, hoped to get away from someone 840 00:44:09,730 --> 00:44:12,969 S2: as powerful as Herod the Great? Fleeing to Egypt was 841 00:44:12,969 --> 00:44:15,969 S2: as daunting a journey for them as running away to 842 00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:18,810 S2: a far off country halfway around the world would be 843 00:44:18,810 --> 00:44:21,930 S2: for us today. How do we get there? Where can 844 00:44:21,930 --> 00:44:25,370 S2: we live? How can we afford to live? But remember 845 00:44:25,370 --> 00:44:29,690 S2: Isaiah's prophecy and Matthew's record of its fulfillment. The wealth 846 00:44:29,690 --> 00:44:31,930 S2: of the nations shall come to you. They will bring 847 00:44:31,930 --> 00:44:35,690 S2: gold and frankincense. And when the Magi had opened their treasures, 848 00:44:35,690 --> 00:44:40,850 S2: they presented gifts to him gold, frankincense, and myrrh. God's provision. 849 00:44:40,850 --> 00:44:46,569 S2: His Christmas present arrived right on time. So what does 850 00:44:46,570 --> 00:44:49,450 S2: this New Year hold for you? We all seem to 851 00:44:49,450 --> 00:44:53,930 S2: be facing uncertain economic times. But pause and remember that 852 00:44:53,930 --> 00:44:57,370 S2: God knows our every need. The God who took care 853 00:44:57,370 --> 00:45:01,410 S2: of Mary, Joseph and Jesus is the God who has 854 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,439 S2: also promised to take care of us. He might meet 855 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,440 S2: our needs in unexpected ways, but his gifts will always 856 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,279 S2: arrive right on time. 857 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,960 S1: Boy, that's a great reminder, Charlie, and one we need 858 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:16,080 S1: at the start of this new year. I have two. 859 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,040 S1: I'm not going to call them resolutions, but suggestions for 860 00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:22,840 S1: you as we launch into 2026. Number one, take advantage 861 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,000 S1: of the land and the book podcast. Charlie. A lot 862 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,080 S1: of people have already done that, but some have yet 863 00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:30,600 S1: to do so. What's the advantage to listening to the 864 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:31,520 S1: podcast again? 865 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,880 S2: Well, the real advantage is they can not only listen 866 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,720 S2: at any time, but they can listen to a program 867 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,440 S2: again or part of a program again. It gives them 868 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,440 S2: an opportunity to hear the program when they want to 869 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,919 S2: hear it, at a time that's convenient, and to keep 870 00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,680 S2: going back over it, to pick up those nuggets that 871 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:47,200 S2: they may have missed along the way. 872 00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:49,560 S1: And you can find the podcast at our website. The 873 00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,000 S1: land and the book. That's the land and the book. 874 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,920 S1: Suggestion number two. Start this year, right? By thanking the 875 00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,870 S1: management of the at this station for creating space for 876 00:46:01,870 --> 00:46:04,549 S1: this program? So much competition out there. And I think 877 00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:06,950 S1: Charlie listeners sometimes can be unaware of that. 878 00:46:07,150 --> 00:46:09,870 S2: Absolutely. They don't know how that really works. But in reality, 879 00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:11,589 S2: there are a lot more programs that want to be 880 00:46:11,590 --> 00:46:14,110 S2: on the air than there is available air space. So 881 00:46:14,190 --> 00:46:16,910 S2: we are thankful that the station is able to have 882 00:46:16,910 --> 00:46:18,870 S2: this program. And and if you can tell them that 883 00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:20,470 S2: as well, it really means a lot to us. 884 00:46:20,469 --> 00:46:23,550 S1: Maybe it's a greeting card, a postcard, an email, a text, 885 00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:27,390 S1: a call. Do something to share your appreciation for the 886 00:46:27,390 --> 00:46:29,830 S1: land and the book with the management at this station, 887 00:46:29,830 --> 00:46:32,350 S1: and we'll thank you in advance for doing it. Our 888 00:46:32,350 --> 00:46:34,950 S1: website where you can always find out about today's guest, 889 00:46:34,950 --> 00:46:38,549 S1: past guests, future programs, and more is the land and 890 00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:44,070 S1: the book that's the land and the book. On behalf 891 00:46:44,070 --> 00:46:47,310 S1: of our producer, Dan Anderson, our host, Charlie Dyer, I'm 892 00:46:47,310 --> 00:46:50,230 S1: John Gager, thanking you for listening to The Land and 893 00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:53,430 S1: the book, a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of 894 00:46:53,430 --> 00:46:54,830 S1: Moody Bible Institute.