S1: The war with Hamas. It's fought with bullets and bombs.
S1: But there's a second, equally important war going on in
S1: the Middle East right now. It's the war of public
S1: opinion fought largely in the media. It's a struggle as
S1: fierce as any skirmish on the battlefield. Who's winning and why?
S1: That's our conversation coming up. Welcome to the land and
S1: the book. Our host is noted Old Testament scholar and
S1: author Doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Gauger, and it's no
S1: secret that Israel has been on all of our minds
S1: and hearts for months now, many of us struggling with
S1: questions of what to think, what to feel. But in
S1: the midst of all this, God's heart for the Jewish
S1: people remains unchanged. He is faithful to his chosen people.
S2: That's right, John. And that's why, as this year comes
S2: to a close, our friends at Life in Messiah would
S2: like to help you better connect with this crucial aspect
S2: of God's character. They're offering their new book, Sharing God's
S2: Heart to Land. In the book listeners, this 30 day
S2: guided reflection will help connect you with God's heart for
S2: his precious people. The articles written by Life and Messiah
S2: staff provide insight into Jewish life and culture, and they
S2: can help prepare you to share with your friends the
S2: peace of Messiah they so desperately need. If you'd like
S2: one of these insightful books for yourself or as a
S2: gift for someone else, visit Life in Messiah org and
S2: click on the Moody Radio button to find out how
S2: you can receive your copy. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: Well, Charlie, as we get ready to start a new year,
S1: it gives us an opportunity to kind of look over
S1: the horizon to see what might be heading our way.
S1: By the way, Charlie, how did we do this last year?
S2: You know, overall, John, not too bad. Nobody saw Hamas's
S2: October 7th attack coming. That took everyone by surprise. I
S2: think the same is true for the ferocity of Israel's response.
S2: The war against Hamas has now been going on for
S2: three months, and we did say last January that conflict
S2: between Israel and the Palestinians was a real possibility, caused
S2: in part by Mahmoud Abbas and the Palestinian Authority losing
S2: its grip on power. And we felt that if the
S2: terror groups ratcheted up the violence, they could force Israel
S2: to attack both against Hamas and Islamic Jihad in Gaza
S2: and against the Palestinians in the West Bank, you know,
S2: we also expected continued conflict with Iran, but didn't see
S2: it turning into open conflict unless Israel felt Iran was
S2: getting close to developing nuclear weapons. And thankfully, that hasn't happened,
S2: at least not yet. As 2023 began, Turkey's President Erdogan
S2: said he wanted a relationship between Turkey and Israel to improve.
S2: I felt that seemed unrealistic at the time because the
S2: key point of friction between them is still Gaza and Hamas.
S2: And of course, that became all too clear in the
S2: past three months. And our final story to start 2023
S2: was tourism. And we said at the time that 2023
S2: looked to be a banner year for tourists, which it
S2: was all the way up until October 7th.
S1: Right. Well, speaking of October 7th and the war that's
S1: unfolded now, what's your latest assessment of that, Charlie? Where
S1: does it stand? What do we really need to know?
S2: I think what we need to know most is Israel
S2: is pushing on. You know, we I think most people
S2: would hope for a quick victory while this tunnel system
S2: underneath Gaza, all of the things Israel has experienced, it's
S2: slow going. They're being slow, methodical and working their way through. Unfortunately,
S2: the pressure on Israel from the UN, from the rest
S2: of the world and even now, sadly from the U.S.
S2: is to wrap it up quickly, you know, just call
S2: it quits and go home. And that's not what Israel wants.
S2: They need to finish the job, or they'll be just
S2: facing the same enemy again in the future. All right.
S1: Let's look ahead to 2024. Our top story has to
S1: be the ongoing conflict between Israel, Hamas and the Palestinians.
S1: What does the New Year hold for Israel's relationship with
S1: the Palestinians? Will Hamas disappear? Will they resurface? Will Israel
S1: finally wipe them out? And who will eventually replace Mahmoud
S1: Abbas as head of the Palestinian Authority?
S2: Well, the relationship between Israel and the Palestinians really is
S2: moving into uncharted territory. Israel has said it won't allow
S2: Hamas to rule Gaza. But at the same time, I'm
S2: not sure if they can totally eradicate Hamas, or at
S2: least the theological underpinnings that produced Hamas. You know, Hamas
S2: goes back and traces its roots to the Muslim Brotherhood,
S2: which morphed into groups like al-Qaida and ISIS and Hamas.
S2: But it's like whack a mole, you know, you you
S2: knock one version down and another seems to pop up.
S2: And it's hard to imagine Israel agreeing to a two
S2: state solution with Mahmoud Abbas or the Palestinian Authority, since
S2: they're the ones who lost Gaza to Hamas in the
S2: first place. And yet, that seems to be what the
S2: US and the West keep pressuring Israel to accept. But
S2: after the horrors of October 7th, I don't see Israel
S2: trusting any promises made by the Palestinians. Watch for the
S2: West to try and get Jordan or Egypt or the
S2: Gulf states or some other group to come in and
S2: provide security in Gaza to keep Hamas out of power.
S2: But two big issues do still remain. And first, what
S2: happens in the West Bank after Abbas dies? And second,
S2: how long will it be until Israel has an even
S2: larger conflict with Hezbollah and possibly its sponsor, Iran? You know,
S2: those questions remain unanswered as we start this new year.
S1: From Moody Radio. This is the land and the book.
S1: We're looking at what's coming our way in the Middle
S1: East in 2024. The second story has to be the
S1: political uncertainty in Israel. Can the current coalition survive? And
S1: perhaps more significantly, can Prime Minister Netanyahu continue to remain
S1: in charge of whatever coalition comes on the scene?
S2: Well, once the war winds down, the political divisions that
S2: were there before will rise again to the surface. And
S2: for the first time in years, there's a possibility of
S2: Netanyahu being voted out of office, either by losing control
S2: of his own party to those who are dissatisfied with
S2: his leadership, or, more likely, being forced to call new elections,
S2: and having his party dropped dramatically in the number of
S2: seats that wins in the Knesset. People are looking for
S2: accountability for Israel's lack of preparedness on October 7th. And
S2: if you remember the sign on Harry Truman's desk, ultimately
S2: the buck stops with the one in charge. So there's
S2: going to be a lot of pressure on him. Watch
S2: for a push to have the current government dissolve and
S2: for new elections to be called. And if that happens, actually,
S2: you might want to watch Benny Gantz and his National
S2: Unity Party. They've certainly emerged in polls as the largest
S2: potential party in any new Knesset. He would try to
S2: form a majority coalition without the parties on the far
S2: right and the far left. Now, some judicial reform might
S2: still happen. That was the big story before October 7th,
S2: but it'll be far less than what was being pushed
S2: for by members of the current coalition. Now I have
S2: to end, though, John, saying this predicting Israel's shifting political
S2: climate is difficult. So this could change completely if the
S2: current coalition is able to hang together through the next year.
S2: But right now that seems somewhat unlikely.
S1: Another of our top stories for 2024 should be the
S1: potential for conflict between Israel and Iran, along with her allies,
S1: Hezbollah and the Houthis. Could this become the next conflict
S1: in the region, or can they be restrained without resorting
S1: to war?
S2: You know, I see this, John, as the sort of
S2: Damocles hanging over the whole region. And it does have
S2: every group there concerned. Israel and the West are concerned
S2: about Iran crossing the nuclear threshold. Iran, though, is concerned
S2: that Israel or the US will launch an attack to
S2: disrupt their nuclear ambitions or even degrade their military. President
S2: Biden is concerned about stirring up more trouble in the
S2: Middle East during an election year, when there's already a
S2: growing anti-Israel sentiment within the progressive wing of his own party, Hezbollah.
S2: And the Houthis will do whatever Iran orders them to do,
S2: since Iran's the supplier of their weapons and the spiritual
S2: leader of their Shiite forces. If Hezbollah launches a major attack,
S2: Israel will try to do to them the same thing
S2: they've been doing to Hamas. There's also a remote possibility
S2: of Israel taking the initiative and launching an attack, rather
S2: than waiting for Hezbollah to do so. But thankfully, that
S2: seems unlikely now. If the Houthis continue to disrupt shipping,
S2: we could see a conflict between them and the West.
S2: They're building up forces there. Even as this year ends
S2: and the new year begins, it's also possible Israel would
S2: get involved if the Houthis continue firing missiles at a
S2: lot right now, if Israel's war with Hamas ends without
S2: widening into a larger conflict with Hezbollah or the Houthis,
S2: then it's possible that 2024 could be a year of tense, quiet.
S2: And certainly that's what the US and the West and
S2: likely Israel would like as well.
S1: Well, finally, let's return one last time to tourism. How long,
S1: once this war is wrapped up, will it take for
S1: tourism to recover from all of the disruption?
S2: Yeah, my short answer. It's going to take longer than
S2: I would like. I think first, the conflict with Hamas
S2: has to end. You know, the rockets have to stop
S2: being fired at Israel. A measure of calm has to
S2: be established there. And then thousands of Israelis who've been displaced,
S2: living with relatives or in hotels need to be able
S2: to go home, you know, down near Gaza. That also
S2: means houses are going to have to be rebuilt. And finally,
S2: the world's airlines need to begin flying to Israel. Once
S2: all that happens, I think tourism can begin to return
S2: to normal. The problem, at least for us tour groups,
S2: is that most church groups take up to a year
S2: or more to set up and announce, and have their
S2: people sign up for a trip. The tours for this
S2: past fall were lost, and so are many of the
S2: tours planned for the early spring. It's possible that tours
S2: already scheduled for the late spring and on into the
S2: summer and fall will be able to go. But the
S2: longer things take to resolve, the more likely it is
S2: that those tours will also start canceling. You know, I'm
S2: tentatively scheduled to lead four groups to Israel in 2020
S2: for the first trip in late February, and early March
S2: has already been postponed to the. Fall because of the airlines.
S2: It all reminds me of James 415, where he writes
S2: that we're to say, if it's the Lord's will, we'll
S2: live and do this or that. The bottom line is
S2: that only God knows for sure what's going to happen
S2: in 2024.
S1: Well, as we look toward 2024, how can listeners to
S1: this program so faithful they gather every week, pray for
S1: Israel right now.
S2: I think what they can pray for is, first, the
S2: peace of Jerusalem. Ask God to give Israel wisdom and
S2: knowing how to take care of the war with Hamas,
S2: and then also how to handle the Houthis and Hezbollah
S2: and ask God to just intervene in a way that
S2: will bring peace. Uh, second, I think what they can
S2: do is pray for safety for people in Israel and
S2: for those who've been harmed. Uh, you know, think of
S2: the emotional trauma that those people have experienced and ask
S2: God to just intervened.
S1: All right. Great prayer request. Good ideas. Thanks, Charlie. The
S1: war with Hamas insights and issues. Next on the land
S1: and the book. The war with Hamas fought with bullets
S1: and bombs. But there's a second, equally important war going
S1: on in the Middle East. It's the war of public
S1: opinion fought largely in the media. It's a struggle as
S1: fierce as any battlefield skirmish. Who's winning and why? Welcome
S1: back to the land and the book. I'm John Jaeger,
S1: and when it comes to the Middle East and Israel
S1: in particular, we've got lots of questions, don't we? And
S1: that's why we're excited for this conversation. Our guest is
S1: Janam Cohen, who is consul general of Israel to the Midwest.
S1: He's a career diplomat with nearly two decades of experience
S1: in the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. He has served
S1: in Spain, Columbia, Berlin, Germany and the U.S. before arriving
S1: in Chicago. Though, Nam held the position of senior policy
S1: advisor to Foreign Minister Gabi Ashkenazi and director of the
S1: Policy Department in the Minister's Bureau. Prior to that council,
S1: General Cohen was the director of the U.N. Political Affairs Department,
S1: where he oversaw Israel's diplomatic campaigns in the UN Security
S1: Council and General Assembly in Israel. It really is a
S1: pleasure to welcome him back to the land of the
S1: book program today. Thanks for honoring us for making the
S1: trip into our studio today.
S3: Thank you for hosting me again. It's such a pleasure
S3: to be here. Thank you.
S1: I wish we had a less serious subject today, I
S1: really do. But you look back at 2023 right now,
S1: you think of the record setting tourism numbers that Israel
S1: experienced and then kaboom, the events of October 7th. How
S1: did you first learn of the attack?
S4: Oh, well, you're you're.
S3: Throwing me back. You know, I was coming back to
S3: my home from a Shabbat dinner, Friday night dinner with friends,
S3: and before going to sleep, I was just checking my
S3: mobile phone to see if there's some news coming from Israel,
S3: because it was nighttime here in Chicago, by morning time
S3: in Israel. And then the news broke. We understood that
S3: something was going on. At that time. We didn't understand
S3: the scope and the scale of that. I was staying
S3: up all night and then we learned about the horrible news.
S1: Well, shockingly, here in America, there has been support for Hamas.
S1: According to a Harvard Harris poll, 51% of Americans ages
S1: 18 to 24 believe Hamas was justified in its brutal
S1: terrorist attacks on innocent Israeli citizens back on October the 7th,
S1: I am dumbfounded. Does this surprise you 51% of 18
S1: to 24 year olds? Why or why not?
S3: I was shocked when I saw these numbers, but then
S3: I started a process of learning to understand better what
S3: happened to America that brought these horrible numbers into reality.
S3: And I'm surprised. I'm shocked. But I know that there
S3: is a whole process behind that that led to these numbers,
S3: and I think it has to do with brainwashing of
S3: young people's minds on the social media. We can definitely
S3: talk about TikTok and its part in that on university
S3: campuses and on some of the, I would also say,
S3: mainstream media outlets here in America. And I think that
S3: everything amounts to the situation that many among the younger
S3: generation cannot tell the difference between truth and lie, between
S3: right and wrong. And I think that this is something
S3: that requires a lot of education and a lot of change.
S1: All right. Since we are talking about 18 to 24
S1: year olds in particular, TikTok is their number one source,
S1: apparently for news. And of course, with the Chinese influence
S1: and with other forces at work, boy, you have to
S1: scratch your head and say, how could they possibly come
S1: to any other conclusion than that? I mean, why wouldn't
S1: they think that Hamas was justified based on that world
S1: of TikTok?
S4: You know, I'm.
S3: Looking at the numbers of the posts in TikToks. There's
S3: a lot of research that was made about that. The
S3: numbers are, you know, appalling. It's 4 to 1 or
S3: even 5 to 1 pro Hamas posts against pro-Israel posts.
S3: And one one should ask, you know, themselves, how did
S3: that happen? Who's behind it? And that's a serious question
S3: that needs to be answered. Yeah.
S1: You wonder why this can be so when Hamas atrocities
S1: are so well documented. We live in a, you know,
S1: show me the proof kind of thing. We love horror
S1: movies with violence and gore and full color depiction. But,
S1: you know, you've got burned bodies, decapitated babies, raped women,
S1: children tied together with their parents, mutilated corpses, all on camera.
S1: With all of this, there are rallies on university campuses
S1: celebrating Hamas's murderous cause. What do you see as some
S1: other contributing factors here? How do we explain this?
S3: I think that the younger generation is not interested anymore
S3: about facts, and they have been encouraged not to be
S3: interested in facts. They're interested in narratives. They're interested in perceptions,
S3: they're interested in feelings and beliefs and are in facts.
S3: And this is something that we have to change, because
S3: I think that we saw that, you know, in the Congress,
S3: there was a hearing to some of the presence of
S3: the leading universities in these countries. They were unable to
S3: say the very basic truth that, you know, encouraging the
S3: genocide of Jews is wrong is against the code of conduct.
S3: What happened to us? The major issue is that we're
S3: not talking about facts. We're talking about perceptions of narratives
S3: and agendas. And this is something that's very basic and
S3: it needs to be changed.
S1: Yeah. You mentioned those university presidents. And I remember one
S1: of their comments, carefully couched in language, was, is it
S1: ever right to pursue the eradication or death of Israelis?
S1: And the response was, well, it depends on the context.
S3: It depends on the context.
S1: And I wanted to say, would you please describe for
S1: me the context in which that would be right?
S3: Absolutely. You know, it depends on the context that it
S3: really killed me. You know, some things do not depend
S3: on the context for me. One thing is the calling
S3: for the elimination or genocide of whatever ethnic or religious group.
S3: Another thing is a calling for, you know, some of these,
S3: you know, stupid young things. Most of them do not
S3: understand that. But they're calling on university campuses and on
S3: the streets here in Chicago and elsewhere, from the river
S3: to the sea. Palestine will be free. You ask them
S3: what river? What sea? They do not know. But actually
S3: what stands behind it is the Hamas call for the
S3: elimination of the Jewish state of Israel that is today
S3: between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. They're calling
S3: and I'm using their terms. They're calling for the ethnic
S3: cleansing of 7 million Jews. They live today in the
S3: Jewish state of Israel. This is racist. This is anti-Semitic.
S3: It is wrong. And we need to let them understand
S3: that it is wrong with.
S1: Us in our land of the book studio today is
S1: Janam Cohen, consul general of Israel to the Midwest. I'm
S1: John Jaeger, and obviously we're talking about the war with Hamas.
S1: What is Israel doing to counteract this misinformation?
S3: We are trying to talk about facts because this is
S3: where we have to center our debate about facts. One
S3: of the things we've been doing and has proved very effective,
S3: even though this is something that is unprecedented, we've never
S3: done it before, is sharing a 47 minutes, what we
S3: call the horror movie of recaps of the videos of
S3: October 7th, the Hamas terrorist attack against Israelis. They took
S3: the life of 1200 Israelis, the biggest killing of Jews
S3: since the Holocaust. We're sharing this movie with elected officials,
S3: with congressmen, with senators, with journalists, because they want them
S3: to see and understand what happened. This is something that's
S3: very graphic. It's very hard to watch. It's not for
S3: the general public, but we believe that public opinion leaders
S3: should be exposed to that to understand the scope and
S3: the scale of the atrocities of. And seventh because they
S3: are the ones who who actually shape the public opinion.
S1: So access to this footage to opinion makers and and
S1: reporters and so on. What kind of an impact is
S1: that having not just on the media, but on the
S1: prevailing global discussion?
S3: It's it has a tremendous effect. You know, everybody that's
S3: been able to show this movie, we're talking about governors, senators, congressmen, journalists,
S3: they're unable to talk after that. Many of them, many
S3: of the journalists changed their minds. They wrote, you know,
S3: op eds, columns about their experience just watching that, what
S3: it meant for them. But it is a very long process,
S3: and I feel that there is very big forces that
S3: are against us that try to divert the discourse from
S3: what happened on October 7th to claim that Israel should
S3: not exist in this region, that the Jewish state have
S3: not right to exist in the Middle East. And that
S3: is our major challenge.
S1: Well, let's swing our focus toward the nation of Israel
S1: itself internally. How do you feel the war is being
S1: portrayed in Israel media itself? Is it fair coverage or
S1: do you do you face similar struggles in communicating basic
S1: facts there?
S3: No, I think that in Israel, among the media and among,
S3: you know, 95% of our population, Jews and Arabs alike,
S3: by the way, there's a very strong understanding about why
S3: we're doing that. What happened on October 7th was something
S3: that is unprecedented in our modern Jewish history since the Holocaust.
S3: This is a war right now on our existence, you know,
S3: on our Jewish state. So, you see, you know, from
S3: right and left, Jews and Arabs alike in Israel are
S3: fighting together. We have a lot of Arabs, Israeli Arabs
S3: who are fighting in the Gaza Strip against Hamas because
S3: they understand that Hamas are not only against the Jews,
S3: they're against the the mere existence of Israel.
S1: He's a career diplomat with 15 years of experience in
S1: the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Our guest today on
S1: the land in the book is Counsel General Enam Cohen.
S1: One of the arguments being used against Israel is the
S1: issue of civilian casualties. Okay. Now I'm going to read
S1: you some quotes from an interesting article I picked up
S1: on the UN estimates that the civilian to combatant death
S1: ratio in conflicts since the Second World War averages 9
S1: to 1. That's nine civilians for every one soldier. All right. Now,
S1: the loss of any life. Tragic, no question about it.
S1: In Iraq in that war, estimates suggest U.S. forces killed
S1: three civilians for every one combatant in in Afghanistan, between
S1: 3 and 5 to one. Colonel Richard Kemp, former commander
S1: of British forces in Afghanistan. This is not an American.
S1: It's a British guy. He says Israel has a 2
S1: to 1 civilian to combatant death ratio in Gaza, extremely low,
S1: which to me is proof that Israel really is working
S1: hard to protect civilians. But despite going out of the
S1: way to warn people before attacking, despite the leaflets, Israel
S1: is shown as the wicked one. How do you account
S1: for that?
S3: I think there's a lot of psychology behind it, but
S3: I want to refer to what you said because our
S3: numbers are really unprecedented. Again, every civilian that's getting killed,
S3: it's a tragedy and we try to minimize and mitigate it.
S3: But as you mentioned, the numbers are really unprecedented in
S3: the modern, you know, warfare. And this is something that
S3: we try to explain to people. But, you know, when
S3: you're so obsessed with your hatred against Israel, in some
S3: cases against Jews, facts do not matter. Numbers do not matter.
S3: They're obsessed with the narrative that Israel is a strong,
S3: oppressing power against the poor. Palestinians. Are the poor Palestinians? Yes.
S3: Are they suffering for sure? Who's to be blamed for
S3: the suffering? That's Hamas. And this is the truth that
S3: we always have to remember.
S1: We often hear it said that America is Israel's biggest
S1: ally in the West, and we certainly hope that remains.
S1: But I think many lesser informed Americans forget or undervalue
S1: the equally true statement that Israel is our biggest ally
S1: in the Middle East, and that's a neighborhood where we
S1: definitely need a reliable friend. Do you feel, as I do,
S1: that part of the equation is undervalued in America? And
S1: if so, why?
S4: This is a.
S3: Message that we try to deliver because I think it's
S3: very mutual. I mean, America is our biggest ally in
S3: the world for sure. America is the biggest superpower in
S3: the world, for sure. And I wanted to remind us,
S3: because the world needs the leadership of America and not
S3: of other countries. The world needs to be led by
S3: by the values of America, freedom and democracy values that
S3: we share in Israel. Israel is the only democracy in
S3: the Middle East. Let's remember that. And I think this
S3: is why it is so important for America to have
S3: a strong Israel in the Middle East. But let me
S3: tell you one more thing, because you know what? I'm
S3: reading the numbers. I'm looking at the polls. And even
S3: though we see a lot of protests on the streets,
S3: on university campuses of the extreme left, I think it's
S3: not the case for the vast majority of Americans. I'm
S3: looking at the numbers. The vast majority of Americans, the
S3: good Americans all across the country, do understand that they
S3: do support Israel. They do stand with the values that
S3: Israel represent of freedom and democracy. I mean, these numbers
S3: this understanding makes me stronger counsel.
S1: General Lanham Cohen likes exploring new cuisines and tries to
S1: balance his calories with daily jogging. He's wearing his no,
S1: he's not wearing tennis shoes. He speaks English, Hebrew, Spanish
S1: and German. The obvious follow up to this whole conversation
S1: is what can we do? What can listeners do to
S1: begin to impact this, this conflict?
S3: Thank you. It is so important, I have to tell
S3: you that in the past weeks and months since October 7th,
S3: I've been receiving so many emails and telephone calls with people,
S3: you know, good Americans from all across the Midwest and
S3: all across the country calling, asking how we can support,
S3: how we can help Israel. We want to stand with you.
S3: Many people send, you know, just money or donations to
S3: Israeli committee that have been heard. That's great. Many go
S3: to Israel to volunteer to support since we a lot of,
S3: you know, hundreds of thousands of Israeli men and women
S3: have been involved in the warfare in Gaza. So many
S3: volunteers came from the United States to support, for example,
S3: the agriculture in Israel. That's been amazing. And I know
S3: that when this war comes to an end, we'll get
S3: back to normality and we need people to come back
S3: to Israel, visit the Holy Land, go see Jerusalem, go
S3: see Israel, support Israel, show your solidarity, go enjoy our
S3: amazing cuisine. You know how good the.
S4: Food in Israel is. Just go do that. This is a.
S3: Great support you can do. You're going to enjoy and
S3: you're going to show solidarity to Israelis. And I believe
S3: that that's a great support.
S4: Yeah.
S1: Well, you talk about the Israeli cuisine. I think they
S1: have out chocolate and Switzerland and certainly the U.S.. I
S1: don't understand this. This is amazing. Uh, let's talk about
S1: tourism for a moment. Let's say the the war was
S1: entirely done by March 31st. Let me just put that
S1: on a calendar. March 31st. It's done. How long after that?
S1: Before tourism could be up and running.
S4: You know what?
S3: I believe it's going to end much before that. I'm
S3: going to take a risk and say much, much before it.
S3: And I've been talking to some of the, um, air
S3: travel companies, for example, flying from the United States to Israel.
S3: They're so looking forward to resuming their direct flights to Israel.
S3: They understand that there's a lot of demand. I believe
S3: that within 2 or 3 weeks we'll see direct flights.
S3: We'll see again, a lot of demand for tourism in Israel.
S3: And I believe that people can definitely plan their spring
S3: and summer vacations for A to Israel. It's going to
S3: be fun.
S1: Well, we'll look forward to that. And we certainly look
S1: forward to having you back in the studio for a
S1: much more brighter, friendlier conversation.
S3: Right. Always a pleasure to be here.
S4: Thank you.
S1: That's counsel General Cohen here on the land and the book.
S1: Well questions and answers. That's what's coming up next. Don't
S1: go away a great segment coming your way here on
S1: Moody Radio's The Land and the book. Welcome back to
S1: the land in the book Moody Radio. I'm John Geiger.
S1: It's always a good day when we're able to open
S1: the Word of God and see what it says in
S1: response to your questions. Yep. That's what this focus is
S1: all about. I'll tell you how you can get your
S1: question to us. After I point out that Israel has
S1: been on all of our minds, all of our hearts
S1: these past months, many of us struggling with questions of
S1: what to think and to feel in this conflict and
S1: in the midst of it all. God's heart for the
S1: Jewish people, though, remains absolutely unchanged. He is faithful to
S1: his chosen people. Right, Charlie?
S2: That's right, John. And that's why, as this year is
S2: drawing to a close, our friends at Life in Messiah
S2: would like to help you better connect with this crucial
S2: aspect of God's character. They're offering their new book, Sharing
S2: God's Heart to Land. In the book listeners, this 30
S2: day guided reflection will help connect you with God's heart
S2: for his precious people. The articles written by Life and
S2: Messiah staff provide insight into Jewish life and culture. They
S2: can help prepare you to share with your friends the
S2: peace of Messiah they so desperately need. If you would
S2: like one of these insightful books for yourself or as
S2: a gift for someone else, visit Life in Messiah org
S2: and click on the Moody Radio button there to find
S2: out how you can receive your copy. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: All right, we've got a great slate of questions today,
S1: starting with summer. Uh, her question takes us to an
S1: interesting discussion. And she, by the way, is a ninth grader.
S1: She says, for school, I'm debating whether or not the
S1: United States should abolish the death penalty as a piece
S1: of negative evidence, I used Exodus 21, which states, if
S1: a man willfully attacks another to kill him by cunning,
S1: you shall take him from the altar, that he may die.
S1: But if there is harm, then you shall pay life
S1: for life. I for I tooth for a tooth, hand
S1: for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound,
S1: stripe for stripe. Summer says I felt this clearly proved
S1: that capital punishment is biblical, and for that reason we
S1: shouldn't abolish it. But then I was asked this cross
S1: examination Didn't Jesus abolish the death penalty in John eight
S1: when he said, the one without sin among you should
S1: be the first to throw a stone at her when
S1: referencing the adulteress caught in sin. I didn't know how
S1: to answer this, and it made me second guess the
S1: accuracy of my original evidence. If you were in my shoes,
S1: how would you respond?
S2: Oh thanks Summer, I would respond this way first, Jesus
S2: didn't abolish the death penalty or any other law. In fact,
S2: in Matthew 517 he said, don't think that I have
S2: come to abolish the law of the prophets. I didn't
S2: come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. Second, under
S2: Roman occupation and control, the Jewish people didn't have the
S2: right to put people to death for violating the Mosaic Law.
S2: The Romans reserved the right of capital punishment for themselves.
S2: In fact, when the Jewish religious leaders condemned Jesus to death,
S2: they still needed to take him to pilot and ask
S2: the Romans to impose the death penalty. And John 18
S2: they said it this way when Pilate told him, take
S2: him to yourselves. And judging by your own law, they responded,
S2: but we have no right to execute anyone. And third,
S2: and this gets to the heart of the matter, the
S2: events in John eight with the woman taking in adultery,
S2: were actually a setup designed to trap Jesus. The religious
S2: leaders brought the woman to Jesus and said she was
S2: caught in the very act of adultery in the law
S2: of Moses commands us to stone such a woman. What
S2: do you say? Well, if she was caught in the
S2: very act, where's the man with whom she was committing adultery?
S2: They just wanted to use her as a test case.
S2: And John makes that clear. In fact, in verse six
S2: he says they were using this question as a trap
S2: in order to have a basis for accusing him. The
S2: leaders thought they had Jesus trapped. If if they said, uh,
S2: what do you think? And he said, well, you do it.
S2: The law of Moses says they would run to the
S2: Romans and then say, Jesus is telling people to ignore
S2: Roman law and take matters into their own hands. But
S2: if he said, well, the Romans are in charge, you
S2: need to let her go. Then they could tell everyone, hey,
S2: Jesus is ignoring the law of Moses. And my point
S2: here is that John eight isn't an appropriate passage to
S2: use for or against capital punishment, because the whole account
S2: wasn't intended to reveal Jesus's views on capital punishment, it
S2: was intended as a trap to ensnare him.
S1: Next question what did Moses sons do? Were they chiefs
S1: or judges?
S2: Yeah, this is a bit of a mystery. Apparently, Gershom
S2: and Eliezer joined Moses in the wilderness following the crossing
S2: of the Red Sea in Exodus chapter 18, but they
S2: then disappear from the Pentateuch. Their genealogy is mentioned in chronicles,
S2: where it says each had sons who were, quote, chiefs.
S2: Another word used theirs, Roche, that means head or chief.
S2: And we're not sure if they were chiefs of families
S2: or clans, but evidently they had some level of rulership. Otherwise,
S2: Moses's family seems to disappear from history, with just two exceptions.
S2: David apparently appointed a descendant of Gershom as his royal treasurer.
S2: It's mentioned in First Chronicles 26. And second, it's possible
S2: that one of Gershom descendants went into idolatry. Now this
S2: is a bit uncertain, but in the account of the
S2: tribe of Dan leaving to seek an inheritance in judges 18,
S2: there's a reference to Jonathan, son of Gershom, son of Manasseh. Now,
S2: at first that doesn't seem to match anything. And it
S2: might not. But if the noon Hebrew letters in the
S2: Hebrew spelling of Manasseh is removed, and one manuscript does
S2: spell it with that letter above the line, then the
S2: text would say, Son of Gershom, son of Moshe or Moses.
S2: Now I think we need to leave that one as
S2: an unsolved mystery, but it's possible this could be a
S2: reference to the grandson of Moses taking on the role
S2: of a false prophet. But then again, it might not.
S1: You can get your questions to us anytime with an
S1: email to the land and the book at Moody's. Edu.
S1: Next question. What did the priest do when they were
S1: not called into rotation in the tabernacle or temple?
S2: I suspect they went about other normal duties. That is,
S2: once they were in the land, they were part time
S2: farmers and herdsmen who took care of their own allotment
S2: of land that God gave them. I suspect they were
S2: also consulted by people who wanted answers from God's Word
S2: on specific questions. The priests had studied the law while
S2: the people didn't have their own copy. So the priest
S2: became the, if you will, the Wikipedia of the day
S2: for the average person.
S1: You're listening to the land in the book from Moody Radio,
S1: our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, answering your Bible questions. I'm
S1: John Geiger, intrigued with what you're wondering about. Like this
S1: question how were the lots cast for priests to determine
S1: what role they filled while on duty in the temple?
S1: Did this have anything to do with Urim and Thummim?
S2: I don't believe it was connected with the Urim and Thummim.
S2: I say that because apparently that was used to provide
S2: kind of a yes no answer to a specific question,
S2: depending on which stone the high priest pulled out of
S2: the breastplate. The way the priests were selected was by
S2: drawing lots. This could have been as simple as having
S2: the names of the different families on on bits of
S2: pottery or some other item that was then drawn from
S2: a basket. We don't know the exact details, but the
S2: process likely became formalized as the number of priests increased.
S2: But whatever method they used, the assumption was the method
S2: being chosen was random, which made sure that ultimately it
S2: was God who was determining the specific selection.
S1: One more question about priests is there a current role
S1: of the priest today?
S2: Yeah, and actually there is the word Cohen is the
S2: name of a priest or name for a priest. And
S2: so many Jewish individuals with that name. No, their descendants
S2: of Aaron, the Temple Mount faithful has been working on
S2: making priestly garments and other items for that still future temple,
S2: and they're also conducting training to help. These would be
S2: priests know all the detailed rituals connected with the temple
S2: and temple sacrifice. There's also an annual Priestly Blessing performed
S2: at the Western Wall, though I'm not sure how they
S2: choose which priests get to perform the actual blessing.
S1: Jimmy wants to know how long were the Israelites enslaved
S1: in Egypt, adding, she really appreciates the program and looks
S1: forward to listening to it every week.
S2: Well, that's a straightforward question, but it has something of
S2: a complicated answer. But I'll try and keep it here
S2: as simple as I can. I start with two major
S2: scriptures that set the basic parameters. The first is Genesis 1513.
S2: God said to Abraham there, know for certain that your
S2: offspring will be sojourners in a land that's not theirs,
S2: and they'll be servants there, and they'll be afflicted for
S2: 400 years. The second is right at the time of
S2: the Exodus and Exodus 12, verses 40 and 41, Moses wrote,
S2: the time that the people of Israel lived in Egypt
S2: was 430 years. At the end of 430 years, on
S2: that very day, all the hosts of Israel went out
S2: from the land of Egypt. Now, as I see it,
S2: there's two major problems. And the first is textual, some
S2: Septuagint translations. And Josephus, the Jewish historian, suggests that the
S2: 400 or 430 years were from the time of Abraham
S2: to the Exodus, and that Israel was only in Egypt
S2: for 215 of those years. However, I think the best
S2: manuscript evidence suggests that it should be read as it
S2: is in our Bibles. That is, it's 400 or 430
S2: years in those two passages. And that difference can be
S2: understood in in terms of the first passage being a
S2: rounded number 400, while the second gives the exact number
S2: of years. Now, the second problem, though, is the question
S2: of how long Israel was oppressed while in Egypt, and
S2: at first Genesis 15 seems to suggest that the persecution
S2: lasted that whole length of time. But the specific details
S2: suggest the 400 years refers to more than just the
S2: time of persecution. It also includes the time, he says,
S2: when you'll be sojourners in a land that's not theirs,
S2: and the time when they would be servants there. The
S2: actual time of persecution was part of that time, but
S2: only part. Exodus one round, verses 6 to 12, pictures
S2: Israel's transition in Egypt from a place of privilege under
S2: Joseph to a place of slavery and persecution. And we're
S2: not told the exact number of years that the Israelites
S2: were actually enslaved. But we know it extended from before
S2: the birth of Moses until the time of the Exodus.
S2: And Moses was 80 years old at that time, so
S2: it had to be at least 80 years.
S1: Last question is there a specific word for the belief
S1: that God chose believers because he knew that they would
S1: say yes to the salvation call?
S2: Yeah, that's called conditional election. And it's belief that God
S2: looked ahead, saw who'd placed their trust in Christ, and
S2: then elected them to be saved based on the decision
S2: he knew they'd make. Now, the problem with that view,
S2: it doesn't match passages like Ephesians one where God says
S2: he chose us in him before the foundation of the world,
S2: and he predestined us to adoption as sons. Now I
S2: have a problem reconciling that with the belief in Romans eight,
S2: where it says, he those he predestined, he called, those
S2: he called, he justified. So God did predestined believers. And
S2: yet at the same time, I know I made a
S2: choice when I chose to place my faith in Christ.
S2: I can't reconcile how I put those two together, but
S2: I believe them both because God said both.
S1: Well, I hope you'll stick around next for Charlie's devotional
S1: that's here on the land and the book. Well, it's
S1: that time of year again. Time when a whole lot
S1: of people go about setting up some New Year's resolutions.
S1: I'm John Geiger with our host, Charlie Dyer, and I'm
S1: gonna just put you against the wall here, Charlie, asking,
S1: do you ever set up New Year's resolutions yourself?
S2: I do not, as I've lived life, I found out
S2: that I better not make a resolution than to make it,
S2: and then feel guilty for not fulfilling it.
S1: Nevertheless, you have focused today's devotion on New Year's resolutions.
S1: Where are we going?
S2: We're actually heading to Ecclesiastes 12. We're going to talk
S2: to Solomon about a good New Year's resolution.
S1: All right. All of that and more as we first
S1: hear this Holy Land experience testimony from someone who's been
S1: to Israel and wanted to share this with you and me.
S5: Hi, my name is Debbie and I went to Israel
S5: in 1998 and when I found when I went to
S5: Israel is I was expecting this going home experience. But
S5: it wasn't that for me. What happened was, is that
S5: all these wonderful parables and stories that I had learned
S5: about in Scripture came to life, and there were questions
S5: that were answered for me as an American living in
S5: this country that could never have been answered unless I
S5: was there actually seeing the landscape, most specifically the Sea
S5: of Galilee, the story of the disciples screaming for fear
S5: when they were in the boat in the middle of
S5: a storm, in the middle of the night. The questions
S5: were answered for me. Why were they so terrified? And
S5: when you see the Sea of Galilee at night, you
S5: understand very clearly, and you understand why it was such
S5: a magnificent story, and there was so much to learn
S5: from that. I highly recommend going to Israel. It's a
S5: wonderful experience and it does draw you closer and nearer
S5: to God than you could ever possibly imagine.
S1: Well, we could all use some wisdom, and particularly at
S1: a time when we're looking at a brand new year,
S1: maybe setting up some resolutions. Charlie, I'll let you take
S1: it from there.
S2: Ah, thanks, John. Yeah? The new year is upon us.
S2: It's time to make that New Year's resolution. Right. Well,
S2: before you do, here are the results of recent research
S2: on the effectiveness of last year's resolutions. Just 8% of
S2: people fully achieved their New Year's goals, while 80% totally failed.
S2: Another group analyzed more than 31 million health related resolutions
S2: posted online last year, and they pinpointed the date when
S2: most people reported failing. It was January 12th, less than
S2: two weeks into the new year. We're heading to Jerusalem
S2: this cold December day to discover why this is so,
S2: and what we can do to set achievable resolutions for
S2: the new year, and our expert on the subject is
S2: going to be none other than King Solomon himself. Now,
S2: as we approach the entrance to his palace, just below
S2: the temple, we spot Solomon walking out toward us. He
S2: appears to be older than we first imagined. We're visiting
S2: Solomon near the end of his 40 year reign, but
S2: though he's only in his early 60s, he appears gaunt
S2: and stooped, as if he's been carrying the weight of
S2: responsibility on his shoulders for far too long. He has
S2: a woolen cloak wrapped around his shoulders to guard against
S2: the chilly wind. Sweeping down across the top of Mount Moriah.
S2: He pauses and motions for us to join him and
S2: follow him back up the stairs and into the relative
S2: warmth of his amazing palace, the House of the Forest
S2: of Lebanon, so named because of all the cedar trees
S2: imported and used as pillars inside. As we enter, Solomon
S2: looks closely at our clothes. Our brightly colored squall jackets, jeans,
S2: and waterproof hiking boots are definitely out of place among
S2: the sandals, tunics and woolen shawls of the palace servants
S2: and guards. But perhaps pretending not to notice, he says,
S2: what can I help you with today? Well, we're here
S2: because back in our day, it's the beginning of a
S2: new year, and every new year, people make resolutions about
S2: what they want to change in their lives, how to
S2: better themselves. But for the most part, we fail miserably.
S2: Do you have any thoughts on why that's so and
S2: what we can do to be more successful in achieving
S2: our goals as we start the new year of? Solomon
S2: smiles and looks at us with warm but weary eyes
S2: that let us know he understands the struggle we face. Well,
S2: let me share with you what I recently wrote and
S2: what I believe will be my final summary of life's wisdom.
S2: And he reaches for a leather scroll on a nearby
S2: table and begins to unroll it. First. Remember this what
S2: you're facing is nothing new. Does this sound like the
S2: struggle you faced the first of the new year and
S2: every other day that follows. And then he begins reading
S2: from the scroll. What has been will be again. What
S2: has been done will be done again. There's nothing new
S2: under the sun. My point here is that the struggle
S2: you face trying to follow through on your goals is
S2: nothing new. Life and human nature haven't changed. Now you
S2: might think that your new gadgets, your smartphones, fitness watches
S2: and software programs should make a difference. We don't have
S2: those here in my day yet the principles behind them
S2: have always existed. I may not have an electric calendar program,
S2: but I can scratch notes and reminders to myself on
S2: broken pieces of pottery. Here's how I describe that in
S2: my book. Is there anything of which one can say, look,
S2: this is something new. It was here already long ago.
S2: It was here before our time. We set goals and
S2: we have ways to remind ourselves to follow through. And sadly,
S2: we also fail. Just like you, you seem to focus
S2: a great deal on trying to find personal satisfaction, to
S2: recapture the vigor of youth, to discover the elusive goals
S2: of happiness, fulfillment, and contentment. From what I hear, many
S2: of your resolutions focus on ways to stay healthy and
S2: push back the march of time that causes your eyes to.
S2: To grow. Dim your shoulders to stoop. Your hair to
S2: turn white or fall out. And your arms and legs
S2: to lose their strength. And every year you fail only
S2: to try again the following year. Perhaps the problem is
S2: that you're focusing on the wrong New Year's resolution. As
S2: I share in this book, I also spent much of
S2: my life trying to find personal satisfaction and fulfillment in
S2: many different ways. But as I sadly discovered, each turned
S2: out to be meaningless, like trying to chase after the wind.
S2: We're stunned by Solomon's blunt words. If the New Year's
S2: resolutions we've been making are doomed to failure, then what's
S2: the answer? Should we simply give up, drift aimlessly through life?
S2: Never said any goals. As if knowing our thoughts, Solomon continues.
S2: The problem is that most goals we tend to set
S2: for ourselves are shallow and self-serving. We want to improve ourselves,
S2: find personal satisfaction for ourselves, achieve for ourselves. Our goals
S2: are self focused, and then life intervenes. Delays, disruptions, and
S2: discouragement cause most of us to give up. But it's
S2: even worse for the small number who succeed. Once they
S2: achieve their goal, their sense of satisfaction is short lived.
S2: Now what do they do? They must set new, higher goals,
S2: or they have to keep working to maintain whatever level
S2: of progress they've achieved, or else they find themselves slipping back.
S2: But if the goals we focused on, like those in
S2: most New Year's resolutions, are a recipe for failure, then
S2: is there any worthwhile goal that we ought to focus
S2: on for the coming year? Solomon chuckles and turns back
S2: to the scroll, unrolling it nearly to the other end.
S2: He searches for the words he knows are there. Spotting them,
S2: he begins reading. Now all has been heard. Here's the
S2: conclusion of the matter fear God and keep his commandments,
S2: for this is the whole duty of man. The key
S2: for your new year is to focus not on yourselves,
S2: but on God. As I wrote in the book of Proverbs,
S2: the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
S2: To fear God is to have a true, reverential awe
S2: of who God really is. It's understanding his power and
S2: might and wisdom and holiness and his love and compassion.
S2: The best goal for the New Year, and for every
S2: single day in that year, is to work hard to
S2: learn more about God. And you do that by getting
S2: into the message he left for you in His Word.
S2: Note that my final goal is twofold Fear God and
S2: also to keep his commandments. So what you're telling us then,
S2: is that the best New Year's resolution we can make
S2: is to get to know God in a deeper and
S2: more intimate way, and that the best way to do
S2: that is to spend more time in his word. Solomon nods.
S2: You've just described the most practical and beneficial New Year's
S2: resolution you can make. Now don't misunderstand. There's nothing wrong
S2: with trying to exercise, eat right, and live as healthful
S2: away as possible. In fact, I understand that someone wrote
S2: about that in a later part of God's Word which
S2: you possess. Let's see if I remember it correctly. Physical
S2: training is of some value, but godliness has value for
S2: all things, holding promise for both the present life and
S2: life to come. And the word for training there is gimnasia,
S2: which means exercise, and from which you get the word gymnasium.
S2: So you see, exercise does have some value, but your
S2: real New Year's resolution should focus on godliness. Or as
S2: I said in my book, Fear God and keep his commandments.
S2: Make that your new Year's resolution and you will not
S2: go wrong. And still smiling, Solomon walks us to the
S2: door and waves goodbye as we head toward home.
S1: Boy, that's powerful Charlie. What a picture! A conversation with
S1: Solomon himself. Thank you for sharing that devotional. If you'd
S1: like to play it again, and now's a great day
S1: to do it. As we head into this new year,
S1: why not head to our website, The land and the
S1: book org, the land and the book org. Been a
S1: great year with you, and I hope you'll join us
S1: again for a brand new broadcast, brand new season, brand
S1: new year next time here on the land and the book,
S1: a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.