S1: Hello, friends. It's time for the second hour of Open
S1: Line with Doctor Michael Ray Moody Radio's Bible Study Across America,
S1: where we're talking about your questions, trying to answer your
S1: questions about the Bible, about God, about the Christian life.
S1: I'm doctor Mike Faber is filling in today for Doctor
S1: Michael Riedel, who happened to be the founding pastor of
S1: Compass Bible Church in Aliso Viejo, California, who had the
S1: privilege of talking to actually one of our members there, Brett,
S1: who was our last caller in the first hour. I'm
S1: the Bible teacher that you'll hear on Focal Point Radio
S1: if you listen here to Moody Radio. And I hope
S1: that you do so many great programs here. And we've
S1: got some new times on the Moody Network. So if
S1: you want to learn more about Focal Point, the easiest
S1: URL and many of them point to it, just go
S1: to pastor pastor mike.com and that will give you our
S1: station lineup. We're in about 900 stations across the country
S1: and will give you the times that you're on. The
S1: times that we're on. And I'd love to meet you
S1: there on the air. Anyway, if you have a Bible question,
S1: it's time for you to call me. 877548367587754836. No. No. (877) 548-3675.
S1: I've got a few shows that I do with different
S1: phone numbers. Maybe one day we'll have just the same number.
S1: How's that? How's that going to work? I don't know,
S1: figure it out. You can send us questions to. And
S1: Trish will have to haul it in here in the mailbag.
S1: But we love talking about those because you get, uh,
S1: you get some great commentary from Trish as well. But
S1: just go to online radio.org Openline Radio.com. Look for that.
S1: Ask a question form, fill it out and we'll get
S1: it in the mailbag. So keep your Bibles open. As
S1: doctor Ray likes to say, get your second cup of
S1: coffee or whatever it is you drink in the morning
S1: to get going, and we're going to get back to
S1: the phones with more of your questions. Let's tackle line
S1: three here. Russell from Tampa, Florida. You're on the air
S1: with pastor Mike. How can I.
S2: Help? Can you hear me? Okay.
S1: Can hear you. Great.
S2: Okay. Um, so the passage that I'm asking about is
S2: found in Luke chapter 12, and it goes down to
S2: about verse 41 to the end of the chapter, uh,
S2: or 49. I'm sorry. Um. It talks about, uh, when
S2: the master returns and finds his servant, uh, not doing
S2: his work, he could be beaten with many stripes, but
S2: the ones that didn't know wouldn't be beat with as
S2: many stripes. Keep in mind, I don't have my Bible
S2: in front of me right now. And I kind of
S2: want an explanation of this parable. Uh, and I want
S2: to give a little background, uh, just so you know
S2: where I'm coming from. I was raised in a what
S2: you might call a very legalistic church. And one of
S2: their teachings was they taught against eternal security. You can't
S2: that once saved, always saved. That's a false teaching. You
S2: can lose your salvation. And this was one of the
S2: scriptures that they would always point to. So I just
S2: wanted to get some commentary on this and see exactly
S2: what is being conveyed here in this message.
S1: Well, I'll give you a short summary, but I would
S1: love for you to listen to my sermon on this text.
S1: I called it The Fear of Responsibility. And you'll find
S1: it on pastor Mike. Com. It's. I mean, if you
S1: can jot this down, it's sermon 1604 1604. But in essence,
S1: what you have to do is distinguish between two different
S1: kinds of disobedient servants. Here one is the erring servant
S1: that gets killed and dismembered and assigned to a place
S1: with those who have no faith. Right? And the point is,
S1: he served himself. He was rebellious, and he was what
S1: we would call a fake Christian. And he's punished. Punished
S1: like we would say in revelation 22, in the afterlife.
S1: But then there's an erring servant that is beaten severely
S1: or lightly, right? He's alive and continues to serve the master,
S1: but he served poorly. He failed. He's what we would
S1: call a real Christian who gets disciplined in this life.
S1: So there's two kinds of lagging servants in this text,
S1: and I try to elaborate on that through the whole message.
S1: It's an hour long message where I try to deal
S1: with this text to make sure that we understand that
S1: you can be a real Christian and not serve very well,
S1: and you will be disciplined. You'll serve the master poorly,
S1: and you'll lose rewards and all the things that First
S1: Corinthians three talks about. So we want to serve him well.
S1: But then there's those that are like the weeds among
S1: the wheat, or the wolves among the sheep, or the
S1: goats among the sheep. They're not real, they're fakes, they're phonies.
S1: And the book of Hebrews talks a lot about it.
S1: So I understand these people that think you can lose
S1: your salvation. But the reality of this particular passage is
S1: talking about two kinds of disobedience. One is someone serving
S1: himself and one is serving the master poorly. And I
S1: go into great detail on this in that hour long
S1: sermon on this particular passage. So we do have discipline
S1: in this life. And Hebrews 12 says, every real Christian
S1: is going to have that discipline. But we also have
S1: churches filled not only with poor servants, but we have
S1: churches that also have many fake Christians, and there's no
S1: doubt about that. Jesus had his Judas not because he
S1: was bad at picking people because he wanted to remind us,
S1: we're always going to have people that are there for
S1: all the wrong reasons. And even the apostle John, looking back,
S1: I think it's chapter 12. He says, you know, look
S1: at Judas. He didn't care about the poor. He was
S1: pilfering money out of the treasury. Well, everyone thought he
S1: was most trustworthy enough at least to keep the money bag.
S1: And yet John looks back, takes the Excel sheet out
S1: and says, oh, you know, that's where all our money went.
S1: The guy was a cheat, so he was in it
S1: for himself from the beginning. But he put on a
S1: real thick veneer of being a disciple of Christ. So
S1: there's two different kinds of erring servants in that, in
S1: that sermon. And I think that gives me room to say,
S1: this is not talking about people that had it and
S1: lost it. It's about people that have been faking it
S1: through their Christian life. And there are many of those
S1: and Jesus talks about it often. Does that help, Russell?
S2: That helps.
S1: Okay, we'll tackle that sermon and, uh, call me back.
S1: I have a show on different stations. Whatever you go to,
S1: pastor Mike. Learn about my schedule or talk to Doctor
S1: Riddell here. He'll go further with this as well. But
S1: listen to the sermon first and we'll see if that
S1: raises any other questions in your mind. Okay.
S2: Okay.
S1: Thank you. Okay, Russell, thanks for the call. Let's go
S1: to line ten. Roger, you're on the air listening on
S1: the Moody Radio app. That's great. Yeah. How can I help?
S3: Thank you for taking my call. Um, in witnessing to
S3: a person. You know, the Bible says if thou shalt
S3: believe in thine heart. So what is the clearest way
S3: to explain heart belief as opposed to intellectual belief?
S1: Well, I think James chapter two, verses 14 and following,
S1: talk about that mental agreement with facts and saying, here's
S1: the way we tell the difference. One produces, uh, nothing
S1: but intellectual agreement, and the other one produces real fruit.
S1: And Jesus talks so much about that, saying, you'll know
S1: them by their fruits. Well, you'll know them. Well, who?
S1: Whether they have real heart belief or whether they don't.
S1: And that's the problem. Because here's what happens according to
S1: the Old Testament. Looking forward to the New Covenant. God says,
S1: if we're right with him and made right with him,
S1: we'll have a new heart, we'll have a new spirit,
S1: and the Holy Spirit will come within us and move
S1: us and cause us to keep his rules and his precepts.
S1: So we know that keeping the rules and precepts comes
S1: from the inside, organic internal change, and that eternal change
S1: is the work of God when someone is putting their
S1: trust in Christ. So we're going to see differences. We're
S1: going to see a trajectory. And as I like to say,
S1: it's not that we're going to be sinless from that
S1: point on, but we're certainly going to start to sin less,
S1: and we're going to serve God and start to do
S1: what second Corinthians 515 says. And that is, we're no
S1: no longer going to live for ourselves, but for him
S1: who died for us and rose again. So that's how
S1: we tell the whole book of First John is about
S1: seeing the evidence of how we can tell mental assent
S1: or mental agreement, mental belief, if you will, as the
S1: demons have, or whether we have real heart belief, which is,
S1: as you put it, there in Romans ten, we got
S1: to have that. It's got to believe in our heart
S1: that God raised Jesus from the dead. Does that help Roger?
S3: Yeah. Um, but, you know, like when when we are witnessing.
S1: Oh, I see, right. I forgot that part. Yeah. Here's
S1: what Paul did when he was talking to Christians. Right.
S1: He not only said, you need to repent, but he said,
S1: and you need to keep fruit. You need to bear
S1: fruit in keeping with repentance. So I want to tell people,
S1: not only you need to repent, put your trust in Christ,
S1: you need to have this penitent faith in Christ. But
S1: then I want to say, then you'll start working out
S1: your salvation. And if they say, well, I'll do that,
S1: but I don't want to do that. Right. Real conversion
S1: is going to be someone who is, as the Bible says,
S1: regenerate or born again, who's now going to say, yeah,
S1: I'm ready to put my effort into this, as Peter
S1: put it. Right. He's going to make every effort to
S1: add to his faith. And then he lists a long
S1: list of virtues. So I want to tell them when
S1: I'm witnessing to them. Hey, I want you to put
S1: your trust in Christ. And if you do, you're going
S1: to sense something internally that is going to shift. You're
S1: going to be alive to God and you're going to
S1: want to please him. Then I'm going to tell you
S1: to work hard at that because Satan's going to be
S1: against it. Your flesh is going to be against it, right?
S1: You're going to have all kinds of things in this
S1: world that are going to push against it, but you're
S1: going to have to work this thing out. As the
S1: Bible says, all real Christians will. So I want to
S1: I want to give that up front. That's what I
S1: think Romans are. Sorry. Luke 14 is all about. Start
S1: there in verses 25 and go all the way through
S1: verse 33, and you'll read in that section of Scripture
S1: how Jesus warns them, count the cost. Well, how am
S1: I going to count the cost of following Christ? Unless
S1: I'm thinking about what it's going to take to obey him?
S1: And I'm saying it's not the obedience that saves you, right?
S1: It's faith from our perspective that saves us, right? We're
S1: putting our trust in Christ, and his meritorious work on
S1: the cross is going to save us. But then it's
S1: going to be, I'm going to go out and I'm
S1: going to start living for the Lord. And I want
S1: to think about that. Am I ready? It's like your
S1: eight year old comes home and says, I'm going to
S1: marry a girl in my third grade class. You don't
S1: even understand what you're talking about, right? But if my
S1: 23 year old says that, I'm going to say, do
S1: you understand what you're talking about? This is a whole
S1: life thing. Count the cost. So I think we have
S1: to read what real belief in Christ looks like, and
S1: it's always going to look like a willingness to now say,
S1: you're right. God is God. Jesus is Lord. I'm going
S1: to live for him. So I think that's the important
S1: part of this. And we need to start saying that
S1: more in our evangelism, not just, hey, get the goodies
S1: by praying this prayer. It's a little different than that.
S1: Do you follow?
S3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's yeah, that's the, um, difference I
S3: wanted to, uh, have. I know when I got saved, I,
S3: my pastor gave me the plan of salvation and he said,
S3: now it's up to you. And I went down on
S3: my knees, but I feel that I was saved before
S3: my knees hit the floor. And that's that's.
S1: I think you're right, I really do. I think you're right. Um, yeah.
S1: Because God, God does this amazing work in changing us
S1: from the inside. So I think you're on to it, Roger.
S1: Sounds like you're thinking rightly about this. I appreciate the call.
S1: All right. Thank you. So glad for the call. And
S1: if you have a question about the Bible or the
S1: Christian life, give me a call. (877) 548-3675. My name is
S1: pastor Mike Faber. I'm sitting in today for Doctor Michael Riedel,
S1: who's on a stage right now, a platform passing out degrees.
S1: You're listening to Open Line with Doctor Michael Riedel, Moody
S1: Radio's Bible study Across America. My name is Mike Faber.
S1: Sitting in today. We hope to have more of your
S1: questions right after this.
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S1: Well, welcome back to Open Line with doctor Michael Riedel.
S1: I'm doctor Mike Faber sitting in for Doctor Michael. I
S1: need to tell you, I really like him. We are friends.
S1: I love his heart. I love what he cares about.
S1: I love his mind. Obviously, you love his program. I
S1: assume if you're listening today. And I just want to
S1: tell you that we're mutual. Uh, you and I both
S1: respect Doctor Michael Redlich so much. So grateful that he
S1: taps me when he is busy with very important things.
S1: The number. Love for you to call me this morning. (877) 548-3675.
S1: So dig deep into that pocket and pull out that
S1: little skinny thing that you usually use to text and
S1: check sports scores and all that. And it actually works
S1: as a phone. If you put in these numbers 87754836,
S1: seven five and you can get on the air with me.
S1: I should mention, because I had a long discussion during
S1: the break with Brett, who called in, who happened to
S1: be from my very own church in Orange County, and
S1: we talked more about that. I only had a line before,
S1: but I didn't blow him off. I didn't I didn't
S1: hit the dump button on him. I we talked a
S1: little bit about the difference between baptism and a Presbyterian
S1: tradition and baptism among most Baptistic style churches, and that is,
S1: we believe in believer's baptism, and I do here, and
S1: I know Doctor Riddell does. Uh, so it is not
S1: the equivalent of circumcision. We talk that through in the
S1: break just because he had to go. I wanted to
S1: hold him over, but he had something going on, uh,
S1: which I understand. Everybody in Orange County so busy. But anyway,
S1: we dealt with that off the air. But if you
S1: want to want me to go, go more on that.
S1: You just going to have to call me. And the
S1: number 87754856. What what did I say. 5483675. Man, I
S1: got to memorize this number. Doctor Radelet can say it
S1: in his sleep. His wife just bumps him in the night,
S1: and he says 8775, four eight, three, six, seven, six.
S1: But I'm not quite there yet. Let's go to line two.
S1: Terry from Indiana listening on WGN. You're on the air
S1: with pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?
S5: Yes. I would like to ask you a couple questions,
S5: if I could.
S1: Sure.
S5: The first one. When Jesus was on the cross, he
S5: asked the father to forgive them. Did God forgive them?
S1: Only those who put their trust in Jesus Christ in
S1: the way that we usually think of forgiveness, that is,
S1: the forgiveness of sins and no condemnation. You're only going
S1: to get no condemnation for those in Christ. But here's
S1: the thing right now think about it today. Right now,
S1: we're in downtown Chicago right now, and there are a
S1: lot of people that are standing for all the wrong things,
S1: doing wrong things, living wrong lives. Right? In a sense,
S1: God is forgiving them. He's holding back his judgment on them.
S1: And if you think about the worst sin you could
S1: could create, I mean, it's bad enough to rob a
S1: 7-Eleven or whatever. That's terrible. But to to hang the
S1: Son of God on a cross, ridicule him, mock him. Right.
S1: Hang him up there, make fun of him, and to
S1: scorn that man. That's the worst sin ever. So. God. Right?
S1: If he were to do what is just at that
S1: moment would be to annihilate everybody in the crowd. But
S1: he doesn't. And in that sense, the forgiveness and love
S1: of God is extended to those people. And I think
S1: that's what this means. It doesn't mean God give them
S1: a blanket pardon like the Pope or something, saying you
S1: get a full indulgence here. That's not what's happening. He
S1: is saying something because the most egregious sin that has
S1: ever taken place is now taking place, and that is
S1: that guilty sinners are taking the creator and crucifying him.
S1: So I think that's what this has to do with
S1: not the kind of forgiveness we see, and that there's
S1: no penalty for our sins in the afterlife. So they
S1: weren't obliterated. And in that sense, God answered the prayer.
S1: But are they in the kingdom? No, not unless they
S1: put their trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. And the
S1: man on the cross standing next to him did. And
S1: I assume the Roman soldier that was standing there and saying,
S1: this surely was the Son of God probably did. And
S1: many in the crowd became followers of Christ, as we
S1: see later in the book of acts. So there's the difference.
S1: There's two kinds of forgiveness, right? There's the kind of
S1: forgiveness that says, like, we have to say, I forgive you,
S1: which means I'm going to trust the Lord to deal
S1: with you later. Right. It's not. I want God to
S1: punish you now. I'm not holding grudges. I'm not calling
S1: fire down from heaven on you. That's a kind of forgiveness.
S1: Then there's a kind of forgiveness where someone has sinned
S1: against me and they repent. They apologize, and I reconcile.
S1: There's no reconciliation in the answer to that prayer, only
S1: those individuals who trust in Christ. But there certainly was
S1: a withholding of God's wrath, which is a form of forgiveness.
S1: It's holding back what they deserve. Does that help?
S5: Yes. The other question is, did Jesus forgive Judas?
S1: Well, there's no data on that. I don't have any
S1: information on that. But since he calls him in his prayer,
S1: the son of perdition, he says in the upper room
S1: that he is the son of punishment. I think, no,
S1: there's no eternal forgiveness for Judas because he's he's going
S1: to a place of punishment. And Jesus said, better for you.
S1: Were you not even born? So, no, I don't think
S1: there's any kind of forgiveness. Again, if we're thinking about
S1: the forgiveness that I want my friends, neighbors and non-Christian
S1: family members to get hold of, right? Which is to
S1: have your sins forgiven so you never have to face judgment. Uh, no,
S1: I don't think Judas received that because God was clear
S1: in the words of Christ that he is the child
S1: of punishment or the child of destruction. He would be
S1: punished eternally. And I think that's exactly where he is today.
S5: Thank you.
S1: Okay, Terry, thanks for listening. Thanks for the call. My
S1: name is Mike Faber, sitting in today for doctor Ray Delic.
S1: Let's go to line one. Had a lot of line
S1: one calls here even though we have 12 lines here.
S1: But let's go to line one. Lou Ann you're on
S1: the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S6: Oh, pastor Mike, thank you so much. And, Trish, thank you.
S1: Um, Trish.
S6: God bless her. Yes. God bless her. She looked up
S6: my verse. Um, I want to know. Yeah, because I
S6: didn't I wasn't sure where it was. I sad, but
S6: I'm in the car and I don't have, um, available stuff, so, um, anyway,
S6: when when the third temple is to be built. Yes.
S6: And I know there's some people that think that we
S6: are the temple. You know, we are the temple after all,
S6: so maybe it won't be built. However, it seems like
S6: it is built. But, um, my question is when that
S6: person comes in from the east and it seems to
S6: appear that that that is God or the Messiah, um,
S6: but then he gives sacrifice. He offers sacrifice as a bull,
S6: so it can't be. Jesus. We know he has no sin.
S6: There's nothing to sacrifice for him. Correct?
S1: Well, remember that a lot of the sacrifices, if you
S1: think about the high priestly sacrifice, was a sacrifice on
S1: behalf of the nation. So just because someone sacrifices, right.
S1: It says in the book of Hebrews, they have to
S1: sacrifice first for their own sin, and they sacrifice for
S1: the others. So I don't think that necessarily excludes him
S1: from that. And remember the sacrifices that are going on
S1: in that temple, which I do believe is going to
S1: be built, because he sure went to a lot of
S1: of detail about the measurements. If this is just symbolic
S1: of the church. So I believe it's literal, as Doctor
S1: Riddell would often say. But here's the deal, right? These
S1: are all about ceremonial uncleanness. These are all about having
S1: done the right regulations to be in sync with the
S1: people on the Temple Mount and all the rest. So
S1: I do think it's possible that this could be Jesus. And, um,
S1: you know, there's a lot about this that we're going
S1: to have to wait and see how it plays out,
S1: even the role of David and all of this, because
S1: it talks about him being a part of it. So
S1: I'm not sure. Uh, but I don't think just because
S1: there's a sacrifice administered by a priest that that particular
S1: sacrifice couldn't be done by a holy one, because it
S1: is often done for the sins of others, as is
S1: spelled out even in the book of Leviticus. Does that help?
S6: Yes. Where Scripture in Leviticus should I look?
S1: Well, uh, you know, I'm thinking, first of all, even
S1: at the beginning, in chapter one, verse four, it talks
S1: about the worshiper coming and and the priest making him
S1: lay his hand on the head of the animal, and
S1: it being accepted for his sin. So the priest there
S1: is accepting a sacrifice and administering the sacrifice on behalf
S1: of the sin of the person bringing the animal. That's
S1: Leviticus one four. That's how the whole book starts. And
S1: I do think that is the picture. Often, even though
S1: Hebrews points out, you know, sinful priests in human priests
S1: at least are sinful and have to sacrifice for their
S1: own sins as well as the sins of the people.
S1: So it starts immediately with one example of someone taking
S1: a sacrifice, administering the sacrifice, but doing it for the
S1: one sin who has come and worship. Does that help?
S6: Excellent. Oh, absolutely.
S1: All right, Lou Ann, love you. Yeah. Thank you so
S1: much for listening out there in Indianapolis. You ever been
S1: to the race out there, that big car?
S6: Who hasn't?
S1: Who hasn't? Well, I haven't. I guess if I live there, I. Well,
S1: you have me out and I'll go watch those cars
S1: go in circles all day.
S6: You know, I would.
S1: That'd be fun. All right, let's go to line three.
S1: Bill from New Lenox, Illinois. You're on the air with
S1: pastor Mike Fabares. How can I help?
S7: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I've always
S7: had the thought that it's about a timeline where the
S7: Bible says that, um, Satan and his angels were cast
S7: out of heaven and thrown down to earth. My question is,
S7: when that happened, nobody knows when it happened, but when
S7: it did happen, there should not have been an earth
S7: to throw them to. If the creation was when God
S7: created the heavens and the earth, um, meaning maybe they
S7: they were on the earth way before God created the
S7: heavens and the earth or or created the earth for
S7: human beings. So that would be okay.
S1: I think there's a conflation of a few ideas here,
S1: because Ezekiel 28 and Isaiah 14 talking about the fall
S1: of Satan and the statement in revelation 12, verse four,
S1: about the third of the angels being swept out and
S1: thrown down to earth. I think what's going on in
S1: revelation 12th May talk about the number of demons, but
S1: it doesn't deal with the ancient casting out, or at
S1: least the fall of Satan, I don't believe. I think
S1: it has to do with them no longer being able
S1: to come before God at that particular point in the tribulation.
S1: And you think about job. Of course, even Satan himself
S1: is coming before God in this divine council or whatever
S1: you'd like to call it. I call it a heavenly
S1: board meeting. And sometimes the enemies come to this board meeting.
S1: So I don't think that it necessitates that the fall
S1: of Satan is taking place when the earth is built.
S1: Although most people, I think, would believe that when I'm
S1: asked the question, I think I'm not sure when it
S1: all took place. Here's what some people would say it
S1: had to be after the earth was made, because God
S1: said it's all good all the way through, you know,
S1: the sixth day. And so if he's saying it's good,
S1: it's good, it's good, then, you know, Satan couldn't have fallen. Well,
S1: I think he's talking about creation itself. So if and
S1: here's why some people are looking for a timeline that
S1: gives us some prehistoric Historic past that is built into
S1: the story about an Earth is usually because they're looking
S1: at paleontologists and geologists that are saying, oh, these rocks
S1: are billions of years old, and these dinosaurs lived on
S1: the Earth years, you know, eons ago. And so this
S1: kind of gives Christians some hope that maybe we can
S1: harmonize with the geologists and paleontologists are saying with what
S1: the theologians are saying, and I'm not buying that, and
S1: I don't I don't want to go there because everything
S1: that God creates, right, he creates mature. And everything we
S1: see in Jesus's ministry, he creates things that have an, a, a,
S1: an appearance of a history and age they never had. Right?
S1: I believe that Adam and Eve were were made, and
S1: when they were five minutes old, they looked like they were, whatever,
S1: 30 years old. So I don't think it's any problem
S1: to have, for instance, parent isotopes in Iraq and daughter
S1: isotopes in Iraq. If you want to get down to
S1: the molecular structure of these rocks, that they have to
S1: be this old, because look at the balance of the
S1: way this atomic decay works. I just don't think that's
S1: how it is. I don't think I have to say
S1: Iraq is this old. I think God creates rocks. that
S1: are ready to be rocks right out of the box.
S1: So here's the. That rhymes I didn't, I didn't I
S1: didn't anticipate that. So here's the thing. What I'm doing
S1: as a Christian is looking at the biblical data and
S1: some things I think I don't know when it happened
S1: and I really don't know when Satan fell. It could
S1: have been after creation of the world. It could have been.
S1: And some people think that because they say Satan is
S1: jealous of what's going on with this new creation, I
S1: don't know. I think he's a little more complicated than that,
S1: but I don't know. I don't really have a good answer,
S1: but we'll find out one day about that. And I
S1: think dinosaurs fit into human reality. I think it comes
S1: to the pre-flood world, where we had a world that
S1: was much more conducive to life. That's why they lived
S1: to be over 900 years old. Human beings did, and
S1: I think we could have a world that could sustain
S1: with the kind of tropical universal world we had, you know,
S1: animals like dinosaurs. And that's not the world we had
S1: after the flood, because people started to die at 100
S1: within a matter of generations, and dinosaurs went away, and
S1: there in the catastrophic strata of our rocks that came,
S1: I believe, from the flood. Does that help, Bill?
S7: That helps a lot. Thank you very much.
S1: Well, there's the music, and that means I can't keep talking.
S1: That's how it works around here. We got a mailbag
S1: segment coming up. Trish is going to come in and
S1: tell us what's on the mailbag. What's in the mailbag.
S1: This is open line with Doctor Michael Riedel on Moody
S1: Radio I'm Mike Faber sitting in today. And we'll be
S1: back right after this break.
S4: We're so glad that Febc partners with Open Line with
S4: Doctor Michael Redlick, bringing the Febc mailbag every week. Learn
S4: how Far East Broadcasting Company is taking Christ to the
S4: world at febc. Org on their weekly podcast. Until all
S4: I've heard with Ed Cannon, you'll hear stories of lives
S4: changed by Messiah all across the globe. Again. You can
S4: hear the podcast when you visit Febc. Org. That's Febc. Org.
S1: Welcome back to Openline. I'm doctor Mike Fabares filling in
S1: for Doctor Michael Melnick today. And I got to tell you, Febc,
S1: you just heard that commercial great ministry doing great things.
S1: You should hear some of the stories, which I get
S1: to hear, which even go beyond what is broadcast on
S1: the on the radio. They're just doing amazing things, getting
S1: the gospel all over the world. It's a great ministry.
S1: I hope you pray for them. I know Doctor Riddell
S1: loves what they're doing there at Febc and so do I. Anyway,
S1: it's mailbag time and that's when Trish the getting shouts
S1: shout outs everywhere. Today you're helping people find verses in
S1: the Bible. What an amazing person this is. Trish McMillan
S1: is here with me and we got the mailbag. So
S1: what do we have in the mailbag? This segment.
S8: All right joy is our first one from Illinois. She
S8: listens to WNBA and has taken us to revelation 22,
S8: verse 15, which says. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers,
S8: the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who
S8: loves and practices lying. So this is in the New Jerusalem. Um,
S8: and so she said, shouldn't there be. No, there's no
S8: curse on anything in God's living with his people. He
S8: himself is their source of light. So where are these immoral,
S8: these sorcerers, murderers, idolaters coming from? That they'll live outside
S8: the city. I thought that old things were all made new. Um,
S8: what are these things, and why are they there?
S1: Yeah. Well, when you get there, you get Zillow right
S1: away and get, get don't get anywhere near the walls
S1: because the housing prices.
S8: Location, location, location.
S1: That's right. You don't want me near the wall. Okay.
S1: I know that's how we envision it. We read that passage,
S1: we think, oh, it's right there. Right. I'm going to
S1: look out the window of the walls of the New Jerusalem,
S1: and I'm going to see all these people scratching at
S1: the wall. That's not it. Uh, outside means outside. Let
S1: me put it this way. Way outside. Even think about
S1: the fact that Jesus says he is the light. We
S1: don't even need sun because Jesus is there, illuminating the
S1: whole place. Well, Jesus said, if you're lost, you're going
S1: to go into outer darkness where there's weeping, wailing, and
S1: gnashing of teeth, as it says in Second Thessalonians one.
S1: I think it's verse seven. You're away from the presence
S1: of the Lord and the glory of his power. You're
S1: nowhere near it. You're outside. But outside is a relative term.
S1: How far outside are the lost? Way, way, way outside.
S1: They're in isolation. They're not anywhere near us. They're outside.
S1: So outside just means outside. Which I think should mean this,
S1: that there's none of these people there. That's the whole point.
S1: The New Jerusalem is filled with glorified saints, glorified Christians,
S1: glorified people, and the Lord Jesus Christ himself. And as
S1: it says in Psalm 16, think about this verse 11,
S1: right in the presence of God, there's fullness of joy
S1: right at his right hand. There are pleasures forevermore, so
S1: you're not going to be looking out the window of
S1: your of your home thinking, I'm near the wall. I'm
S1: looking over the wall here in my high rise condo,
S1: and I'm seeing all these non-Christians out there begging to
S1: get in. That's not how this is. There an outer darkness.
S1: We are in light. They are in away from the
S1: presence of the Lord. Way far. And so you're not
S1: you're not going to see them there, trust me.
S8: So for someone who's listening, who's like, oh no, I
S8: don't want to be in that outer darkness.
S1: Yes.
S8: Um, how do I make sure I'm in that city?
S1: You should pay attention to Moody radio is what you
S1: should do. Because we're going to tell you in every
S1: different way we can. You've got to admit. Number one,
S1: the bad news. You're a sinner. You do not qualify.
S1: No one does. The best person you know does not qualify.
S1: Don't tell me you're going to heaven because you're a
S1: good person. Because Jesus said there is no one good
S1: except God alone. Read Romans chapter three. All of us
S1: are sinners. Then read Romans chapter four. The only way
S1: to get right with God to be counted as righteous,
S1: is to put your trust in the finished work of Christ.
S1: He lived a perfect human life in your place. He
S1: died on a cross to absorb the penalty of your sin.
S1: Trust him. He rose from the dead to prove that
S1: it all worked, and you need to put your trust
S1: in him. So let Mike Fabares paraphrase of the gospel
S1: be the trigger right now in your heart to get
S1: down on your knees and to say, God, I'm a sinner.
S1: I see the problem, I need you. Throw yourself on
S1: his mercy today as a sinner and you will get
S1: off your knees justified. So do that. And that's how
S1: you get a place in the kingdom.
S8: If if that's something you're interested in, more information, or
S8: you've been talking with a friend and you want to
S8: get them more information, if you go to our website,
S8: our website, openline radio Dot, and then the top right corner, um,
S8: on on a computer or it's in the drop down
S8: menu of the little three hamburger thing on the on
S8: a mobile app. Um, click on Know Christ. And that
S8: will take you to a page where there's a lot
S8: more information and you can, um, get some information sent
S8: to you. And, um, it's laid out with verses and
S8: different things that you can look at. So open line
S8: radio.org and then find the link in the top right
S8: corner that says Know Christ. And we'd love to get
S8: you some more information. If you have questions or you
S8: have done that today and made that decision. Our next
S8: question is from Sue in Illinois, who was reading Matthew
S8: and started thinking about God talking. Uh, so Mary and
S8: Joseph being the earthly parents of Jesus, and where God's
S8: talking to Joseph about where to go, why he had
S8: to leave. Um, when Herod goes to kill all the
S8: babies and the angel comes and says, you need to leave. Um,
S8: would Mary and Joseph not have known about the prophecy
S8: about Herod and him wanting to kill Jesus from the
S8: Old Testament? So this is Matthew 217 and 18, which says,
S8: then what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled.
S8: A voice was heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning,
S8: Rachel weeping for her children, and she refused to be
S8: consoled because they were no more.
S1: Well, we have to remember, Matthew is not only giving
S1: us prophecies that are fulfilled, that are clearly understood in
S1: the day as a messianic prophecy, but he's also tying
S1: things together that I sometimes would call a messianic prophecy.
S1: Category two there are things that fit and there are
S1: things that work. And he's tying them together. Because obviously,
S1: in retrospect, yeah, this fits. I don't think anyone in
S1: the first century ever interpreted Jeremiah 31 as a messianic prophecy.
S1: Matthew is writing to a very different audience than Luke.
S1: Luke doesn't do this kind of thing, right. He may
S1: talk about prophecies in Luke chapter one and two, but
S1: they're always about things that are clearly messianic. Here we
S1: have something that is of a different category. And Matthew
S1: loves to do this. He's tying in things that fit
S1: and just like that historic situation. Jeremiah 31 fit what
S1: was going on. Then it also fit what was going
S1: on under Herod. So no one would read that and say, oh,
S1: of course we know that right now in the first century,
S1: they're going to try to kill Jesus. And we better
S1: get out of here because all the babies are going
S1: to be killed. No. It fits. It fits the weeping.
S1: It fits the the per the prophecy. But it wasn't
S1: one that you'd say. If that didn't happen, Jesus wouldn't
S1: be the Messiah. Look at it that way. Right? Is
S1: it a a true what I call first category messianic prophecy?
S1: Would Christ still be Christ if those kids weren't killed?
S1: And we would say, well, sure, because this isn't one
S1: that says the Messiah has to have this happen, but
S1: it is one that fits. And because it fits right.
S1: I don't know how Doctor Redlich would put this, but
S1: I have to see two different kinds of messianic prophecy,
S1: and the ones that fit are beautiful, right? The things
S1: in the tabernacle, the things in the temple, they fit right.
S1: But it's not because I'm looking at the Tabernacle description
S1: and saying, well, that's Jesus right there. And if I
S1: know the Messiah is coming, it's going to be that
S1: he's going to be the bread of life. I don't know,
S1: I wouldn't have known that. I've got to look back
S1: on it and see it. I've got to read John
S1: six before I can make the connection to the showbread. So, um, yeah,
S1: that's what Matthew is filled with, those kinds of allusions
S1: and references. Do you follow? One is a predictive prophecy.
S1: Another one is a retrospective prophecy. And I'm just creating
S1: categories here. I'm going to put that in my in
S1: my systematic theology book, Retrospective Prophecies.
S8: I like that.
S1: I've just coined that. Write it down and put a
S1: TM next to it. I've just trademarked that little phrase.
S8: So would that be similar to how we we would
S8: the retrospective prophecy where we could see something and say, um, oh,
S8: this is how this applies to my life. Like, is
S8: it more of an application or. No, it's a separate category.
S1: Yeah. Here's a line that C.S. Lewis wrote in a
S1: little book called reflections in the Psalms. He talks about
S1: somebody who was in a bathhouse in the ancient world
S1: and said, is your water hot enough in this bathhouse?
S1: He said, well, it'll be hot, hot soon enough. And
S1: then that night, the bathhouse burns down. And I'm recalling
S1: a 25 year old memory of reading this book. But
S1: he says, is that true? Yeah, well, it is hot
S1: enough when it burned down, right? All the water was boiling.
S1: But that's not what he meant. Does it fit? It fits.
S1: And I think some things, particularly in the Psalms, are messianic.
S1: Only looking back at them and saying, oh, this fits.
S1: So I don't think it's the way we want to
S1: read scripture for our lives, right? We want to read
S1: Scripture for our lives knowing that Jesus said, in this
S1: world you will have tribulation, not just the disciples, but
S1: all of us, or there'll be glory in the church, right?
S1: Ephesians three to all generations we can see what applies
S1: to us. Now do some things fit? You may have
S1: brothers that don't like you, and you say, it's just
S1: it's like me and Joseph, okay? But it's not a
S1: prophecy that all of us are going to have an
S1: experience like Joseph had. But it fits your life, right.
S1: And I think a lot of things were written that
S1: way in Matthew. And a lot of the messianic Psalms
S1: that are quoted in Matthew are those kinds of, uh,
S1: what did I call it? Retrospective, prospective.
S8: Prophecy. I wrote it.
S1: Down, right down. I won't like that. You ask him.
S1: He's he's the brainiac. He'll say, I don't think that's
S1: quite right.
S8: But.
S1: I think it's right.
S8: All right. Thank you for that question, Sue. And for
S8: the answer. John in Indiana listens to, uh, Deuteronomy 32 eight.
S8: So we're going all the way back, uh, says when
S8: the Most High gave the nations their inheritance and divided
S8: the human race, he set the boundaries of the peoples
S8: according to the number of the people of Israel. Um,
S8: often the footnotes can help us understand passages better. They'll give,
S8: you know, definitions for names or or how how much
S8: weight something was for, for a thing that we don't
S8: way we don't use anymore as a measurement. Um, in
S8: this question, John says the footnote for number, the people
S8: of Israel, number of the people of Israel, um, says
S8: one Dead Sea scroll reads number of the Son of God.
S8: And the Septuagint says, which is the Greek translation of
S8: the Old Testament reads number of the angels of God.
S8: What do these variants mean, and what is the correct
S8: translation of this phrase.
S1: Well, I read a book called The Dead Sea Scrolls
S1: and Modern Translations. And when, of course, it only applies
S1: to the Old Testament. But there are some very interesting
S1: things that after the mid part of the 21st century,
S1: 20th century, rather, when we found the Dead Sea Scrolls,
S1: we saw readings that matched the Septuagint. Now the Septuagint
S1: predated Christ, right? This is Alexander the Great, Hellenized, the
S1: ancient world. He had his scholars translate all the important
S1: books to put in the Library of Alexandria. And of course,
S1: the Bible was going to be a part of that.
S1: So the 39 books of the Old Testament were translated
S1: into Greek. Now, that's an early testimony to what the
S1: Jewish text of the pre first century Jewish texts look like. Well,
S1: the Masoretic Text that most of us have followed because
S1: the Jews had scribes that were professional and they had
S1: very careful, fastidious rules of translation. Our earliest extant manuscripts
S1: of that are, generally speaking, ninth, 10th century AD so
S1: there's a thousand year gap, 1300 year gap may be
S1: as much as between the Septuagint and the Masoretic Text,
S1: at least the existing manuscripts that we can look at
S1: in museums. Well, then you have the Dead Sea Scrolls
S1: that are found, and they go all the way back
S1: to before the time of Christ, at least a century
S1: or two before the time of Christ, when they were written.
S1: And those Dead Sea Scroll discoveries are in Hebrew. And
S1: so we think, okay, well, that may be more reliable
S1: than some Greek scholar who translates it in the third
S1: or second century BC. But when those two agree with
S1: each other, it certainly makes scholars say, wow, I wonder
S1: if there is any way there might have crept in.
S1: A variant among the Masoretic texts that we have in
S1: libraries and museums now to the ninth, 10th, 11th century A.D.,
S1: because it's a much earlier set of witnesses. And this
S1: and this is one passage, by the way, uh, where
S1: most modern translations say, I do think it's the sons
S1: of God, which means angels. That was a long explanation.
S1: And I know we got to take a break, Trish,
S1: because you're so long winded. But but here's the thing, right?
S1: I do think it probably relates to angels. It looks
S1: a lot like what we see in Daniel. And apparently
S1: we got angels overseeing nations. And with that, we're out
S1: of time. Thanks, Trish, for the mailbag. My name is
S1: Mike Fabares. We got more questions coming up sitting in
S1: today for Doctor Michael Riddell on Moody Radio. We'll be
S1: right back right after these messages.
S4: So many people have questions about Israel. That's why Chosen
S4: People Ministry is one of our partners, is offering a
S4: free booklet, Why Israel? This book explores the topic of
S4: Israel through the lens of Scripture, bringing clarity to a
S4: controversial topic. Has the church replaced Israel in the plan
S4: of God. Does ethnic Israel still have a future? What
S4: about Israel today? If you'd like answers to these questions,
S4: just go to our website openline. radio.org. Scroll down to
S4: the link that says Free Gift from Chosen People Ministries.
S4: Click on that and you'll be able to sign up
S4: for your own copy of Why Israel?
S1: Welcome back to Openline. I'm doctor Mike Fabar is sitting
S1: in today for Doctor Michael Riedel, who's right now at
S1: the graduation ceremonies of the Moody Bible Institute. And I
S1: am in studio in the Windy City of Chicago, which
S1: I know meant something else. But it is windy today
S1: out there. Just to let you know, if you're not
S1: living in Chicago, but it's it's windy. My hair is
S1: messed up. Let's just put it that way. Hey, we
S1: got we got just one segment left. So we want
S1: to deal with as many questions as we can. Let's
S1: go to line five. Charlie from Kalamazoo, Michigan, you're on
S1: the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S9: Yes. Can you hear me? Okay. Pastor Mike.
S1: Yes, I can hear you just fine.
S9: Okay. I'm kind of confused about what predestination means, and, um,
S9: how God wants everybody to be saved and how he
S9: gives us a free will. Can you explain how that
S9: all ties in?
S1: You're the first person ever to be confused about predestination. Uh.
S1: I'm kidding. Here's the problem. We're dealing with a God
S1: who is so far beyond, uh, what we can squish
S1: into our heads. And there's something about this God who
S1: says I've made plans in eternity past, and I'm working
S1: those out. Then. Then I'm. I'm in this thing on
S1: the timeline created, choosing what I'm going to have for lunch,
S1: choosing where I'm going to live, choosing what I'm going to,
S1: who I'm going to marry, choosing where I'm going to
S1: buy a house. And now all of a sudden I'm
S1: told that God's got this master plan. He's working out.
S1: And even Romans 828, he's working all things together for good.
S1: How does that work? Right? And that's the problem of predestination.
S1: How does it work that God has decided some things
S1: that he is working out, especially when a lot of
S1: the things in my life are bad? He's working all
S1: things together for good, for his good plan. Right? What
S1: is this all about? This is difficult, but free will.
S1: Let me just put it this way. Free will in
S1: me making decisions is certainly, um. It is curtailed by
S1: certain limitations. Right. And as some people have said who've
S1: written on this and thought on this long and hard,
S1: even philosophers. Right. We are choosing things that we want
S1: to do. I choose a house I want to buy.
S1: I'm choosing a wife I want to marry. I'm choosing,
S1: you know, to to to go to the school I
S1: want to go to. The desires of our heart is
S1: the problem. And when people talk about God predestining us.
S1: And seeing that as a part of a Romans eight
S1: chain of what he does, he predestines us. He calls us.
S1: He justifies us and glorifies us. Why is that all important?
S1: Because according to Ephesians chapter two, sin is such a hard,
S1: terrible problem that unless God breaks in and His spirit
S1: does something and as it's put in the Gospel of John,
S1: draws us to himself. Well, my desire is just to
S1: continue to live for myself. The desires of human beings
S1: are fallen. We have a problem of sin. It is
S1: so bad. It is so invasive. It is so systemic
S1: that all my desires are ultimately about me. They're not
S1: about glorifying God. And so all we're saying with predestination,
S1: which all we're saying, we're saying a lot more than this,
S1: but it's certainly what we need to understand. Yes, I
S1: am a free agent. Yes, I have a free will.
S1: But what I'm really problematic. What's problematic about my life
S1: and your life, Charlie, is that we want to do
S1: our own thing. All of us, like sheep, have gone astray.
S1: Each of us has turned to our own way. To
S1: quote Isaiah 53. And what we need is to return
S1: to the shepherd of our souls, as Peter puts it. Well,
S1: how is that going to happen? God's going to have
S1: to break in and do something. And that's where predestination
S1: describes God going out, seeking and saving the lost, and
S1: working in a plan to bring people to himself. That's
S1: a miraculous act. It's called regeneration, and we struggle with
S1: it in our mind. A little book I might have
S1: you read. J.I. Packer wrote a little book called sovereignty
S1: and the Will of God. No evangelism and the sovereignty
S1: of God. That's what it's called. It's a little book,
S1: but it helps us realize both of these are true
S1: in Scripture. God is a God who is sovereign and
S1: predestinates things, and we are free agents in the sense
S1: that we have free will, but that free will is
S1: limited by a number of things. I can't fly and
S1: touch the moon right now. You know I can't become
S1: a frog, you know, and I can't, uh, I can't
S1: choose good unless God enables me. And that's really what
S1: this is all about. It creates a whole other host
S1: of problems. But he'll start to tackle some of that
S1: in that little book. And that's the best I can
S1: do with a question that is perennial. And this is
S1: one that everyone's asking and will ask because it's a
S1: very hard concept. Does that help a little bit? Charlie
S1: gives you a reading assignment at least.
S9: Good. Great. Thank you I appreciate it, pastor. Thank you.
S1: Thank you Charlie, thanks so much for the call. You've
S1: asked you've asked the question of questions. Everybody asks that
S1: question and it's a good one. We all need to
S1: ask it. Let's go to Jude, line seven. Jude, you're
S1: on the air with pastor Mike. How can I help?
S10: Oh, hello, pastor Mike. My question is, uh, why do
S10: we celebrate Christmas in December when Jesus really wasn't born
S10: in December? There's nothing indicating that. And more realistically, may
S10: have been sometime in the springtime.
S1: Well, we don't know that. I know, I know that's
S1: popular to say, Jude. We don't know that. Hippolytus. Chrysostom.
S1: By the third and fourth century, most people read this
S1: saying it was December 20th 5th or June 6th. I
S1: know a lot of people on the internet. YouTube is
S1: full of people saying, well, it couldn't happen then, you know,
S1: they were keeping their their flocks out in Bethlehem, out
S1: in the fields. Well, you know, uh, the Mishnah says
S1: they did that all year round in Bethlehem, one of
S1: the earliest dates. There's two early dates. The earliest dates
S1: that were recognized by church historians were December 25th and
S1: January 6th, sixth. So January 6th and December 25th. Those
S1: were the earliest times we can go back to, but
S1: we don't know. And the Bible is clear about that.
S1: We don't know. So it's a date. Let's pick a date.
S1: You can pick a date. Uh, you know, the Orthodox
S1: people pick the January, uh, time frame. Most of us
S1: celebrate on the 25th. It really doesn't matter. Let's celebrate
S1: the incarnation. That's the important thing. Thanks for the call, Jude.
S1: I wish I had more time to to dig into that. Uh,
S1: you can read about it in Chronological Aspects of the
S1: Life of Christ by Harold Hoehner. That might help. Uh,
S1: thanks for listening, everybody. I wish I could, uh, do
S1: this for five hours today, but I only had two,
S1: and I appreciate if you hang if you hung in
S1: there with me the whole time. Thanks to the Open
S1: line team who couldn't do this without Trish and Omar
S1: and Karen, who's been screening today. So thankful for all
S1: those great gifted people. Find more information about Open Line
S1: at Open Line radio.org. Open line with Doctor Michael Riedel
S1: is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of the
S1: Moody Bible Institute. This is Mike Fabares. Thanks for listening.