1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 S1: Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,160 S1: downloading this podcast, and I hope you hear something that 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,560 S1: will really encourage and edify you. But before you start 4 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,400 S1: to listen, let me take a moment of your time 5 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: and tell you about this month's truth tool. It's called 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:14,640 S1: secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And 7 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,360 S1: it follows that very often, whatever our relationship is like 8 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,000 S1: with authority figures, predominantly our parents, we somehow transferred to 9 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,000 S1: how we see God. So if we have an angry parent, 10 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,319 S1: he's an angry God. If it's a distant parent, he's 11 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,520 S1: a God who's not there. I think it's important we 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,680 S1: understand who God really is. And in this wonderful book 13 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,760 S1: called secure, you're going to discover the character of God 14 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: and how deeply in love God is with you. It's 15 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:38,839 S1: our truth tool. Our truth tools are my way of 16 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: saying thank you because we are listener supported radio. So 17 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,600 S1: if you'd like a copy of secure, just call eight 7758. 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: That's eight 7758. Give a gift of any amount. My 19 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,840 S1: way of saying thank you for supporting the program is 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,000 S1: I'll send you a copy of secure. You can also 21 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,560 S1: do this online at in the Market with Janet. Scroll 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,720 S1: to the bottom of the page. There's the cover of 23 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,260 S1: the book secure? Click on the photo. Go right on through. 24 00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:04,500 S1: Make your donation and we'll send you a copy again 25 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:07,500 S1: of secure. If you want to consider becoming a partial partner, 26 00:01:07,500 --> 00:01:10,500 S1: that is the ever increasing circle of friends who give 27 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:13,020 S1: every single month at a level of their own choosing. 28 00:01:13,020 --> 00:01:15,220 S1: And my way of saying thank you is this you 29 00:01:15,220 --> 00:01:17,500 S1: always get the truth tool for each and every month. 30 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:20,100 S1: And in addition to that, you get a weekly newsletter 31 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,460 S1: that includes some of my writing and a little audio 32 00:01:22,459 --> 00:01:25,060 S1: piece just for my partial partners. So either way, thank 33 00:01:25,060 --> 00:01:28,660 S1: you in advance for prayerfully considering the opportunity to financially 34 00:01:28,660 --> 00:01:31,340 S1: support in the market with Janet partial and keeping it 35 00:01:31,340 --> 00:01:33,340 S1: on the air now. I hope you hear something that 36 00:01:33,340 --> 00:01:36,180 S1: will encourage you to get out and influence and occupy 37 00:01:36,300 --> 00:01:37,860 S1: in the marketplace of ideas. 38 00:01:38,340 --> 00:01:39,860 S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching. 39 00:01:40,140 --> 00:01:42,500 S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge. 40 00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:44,619 S4: Americans worshiping government over God. 41 00:01:44,940 --> 00:01:48,340 S5: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years. 42 00:01:48,340 --> 00:01:50,380 S6: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated. 43 00:01:50,780 --> 00:02:06,790 S5: The Bush tax is not. Hi, friends. Welcome to In the. 44 00:02:06,790 --> 00:02:09,230 S1: Market with Janet Parshall. I am so glad we're going 45 00:02:09,270 --> 00:02:11,590 S1: to spend this next hour together. So here's my opening 46 00:02:11,590 --> 00:02:15,510 S1: question to sort of get you thinking critically and biblically. 47 00:02:15,750 --> 00:02:18,270 S1: If I were to ask you this question, tell me 48 00:02:18,270 --> 00:02:21,790 S1: about your relationship with God. Tell me about your attachment 49 00:02:21,790 --> 00:02:24,870 S1: to God. Would you know what I meant by attachment? 50 00:02:24,870 --> 00:02:26,910 S1: And therefore, would you be able to have a follow 51 00:02:26,950 --> 00:02:29,310 S1: up question that you could say it was healthy or 52 00:02:29,310 --> 00:02:32,270 S1: it was an unhealthy attachment? Or do you think, oh, 53 00:02:32,310 --> 00:02:34,030 S1: I don't even think of the word attachment when I 54 00:02:34,030 --> 00:02:36,110 S1: talk about God? Well, that's what we're going to talk about. 55 00:02:36,110 --> 00:02:40,430 S1: Secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. Now, 56 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:42,510 S1: I don't know where you are in my house, when 57 00:02:42,550 --> 00:02:45,030 S1: my four babies were running around and I had four 58 00:02:45,070 --> 00:02:46,870 S1: under six, we used to call it the arsenic hour. 59 00:02:46,910 --> 00:02:48,870 S1: Not that we would ever consider that as an option, 60 00:02:48,870 --> 00:02:51,870 S1: but it was. It was one of the roughest times 61 00:02:51,870 --> 00:02:54,190 S1: of day. Or you happen to be finishing up the 62 00:02:54,230 --> 00:02:56,090 S1: work day. You're coming home and you're burnt out and 63 00:02:56,090 --> 00:02:59,450 S1: you're exhausted. You're discouraged. You're fatigued. You just you just 64 00:02:59,450 --> 00:03:01,690 S1: want to set your mind on things above. Well, good, 65 00:03:01,730 --> 00:03:03,770 S1: because you've come to the right place. I don't know, 66 00:03:03,770 --> 00:03:06,850 S1: just thinking about God is always a good idea. But 67 00:03:06,850 --> 00:03:09,770 S1: thinking about our relationship with God an even better idea. 68 00:03:09,770 --> 00:03:12,010 S1: And boy, we have a great teacher this hour. Ken 69 00:03:12,169 --> 00:03:15,530 S1: Haddock is with us. She's a licensed professional counselor, supervisor, 70 00:03:15,690 --> 00:03:19,130 S1: and an accredited clinical trauma specialist, which will factor into 71 00:03:19,130 --> 00:03:22,169 S1: this in a bit. With expertise in treating complex mental 72 00:03:22,169 --> 00:03:26,330 S1: health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. I'm always interested 73 00:03:26,330 --> 00:03:29,530 S1: in people who take that biblical and clinical approach. Ken, 74 00:03:29,690 --> 00:03:31,770 S1: by the way, has spoken at conferences and churches, been 75 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:35,370 S1: featured in numerous media outlets regarding the intersection of Christianity 76 00:03:35,370 --> 00:03:39,090 S1: and mental health counseling. Uh, Kenza and her husband own 77 00:03:39,090 --> 00:03:43,130 S1: Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health agency 78 00:03:43,130 --> 00:03:46,650 S1: that's headquartered in South Carolina. She's the author of The 79 00:03:46,650 --> 00:03:51,290 S1: Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims Guide 80 00:03:51,290 --> 00:03:54,030 S1: to Christianity. That piqued your curiosity, Didn't hang on to 81 00:03:54,030 --> 00:03:55,670 S1: that for a minute. And the book that we're going 82 00:03:55,710 --> 00:03:58,070 S1: to talk about today eventually is called Secure How to 83 00:03:58,110 --> 00:04:01,150 S1: Have a Healthy Attachment to God. So pull up your chair, 84 00:04:01,190 --> 00:04:04,310 S1: make yourself comfortable, catch your mind on things above. Obviously, 85 00:04:04,310 --> 00:04:06,950 S1: if you're driving, I'm being figurative, but just make yourself 86 00:04:06,950 --> 00:04:09,990 S1: comfortable as we step into this conversation. Kenzie the Warmest 87 00:04:09,990 --> 00:04:11,790 S1: of Welcomes I cannot tell you how much I've been 88 00:04:11,790 --> 00:04:15,030 S1: looking forward to this conversation. You represent one of my 89 00:04:15,030 --> 00:04:19,710 S1: hot button issues, which is really and truly working diligently, compassionately, 90 00:04:19,710 --> 00:04:22,950 S1: faithfully to remove the stigma of mental health issues from 91 00:04:22,950 --> 00:04:25,150 S1: the church. And the more we talk about it, the 92 00:04:25,150 --> 00:04:27,910 S1: more I think that stigma will evaporate, the more we're 93 00:04:27,910 --> 00:04:31,270 S1: going to understand that churches are where people turn. And 94 00:04:31,270 --> 00:04:34,029 S1: by the way, these are secular universities doing this study. 95 00:04:34,029 --> 00:04:36,510 S1: When they're given a diagnosis, they don't want their clinician. 96 00:04:36,510 --> 00:04:39,790 S1: They want their pastor, their priest, their imam, their rabbi. 97 00:04:39,790 --> 00:04:42,150 S1: They want somebody of faith to affirm that they still 98 00:04:42,150 --> 00:04:45,350 S1: have value. That tells you something about our attachment to God. 99 00:04:45,350 --> 00:04:47,190 S1: But I want to go to the last book that 100 00:04:47,190 --> 00:04:50,590 S1: you wrote before this one, the Ex-Muslims Guide to Christianity. 101 00:04:50,990 --> 00:04:53,930 S1: Your stunningly beautiful and I would not have a clue 102 00:04:54,170 --> 00:04:56,450 S1: had I not seen something about your past that you 103 00:04:56,490 --> 00:04:59,529 S1: came out of an Islamic background. Tell me your story. 104 00:04:59,529 --> 00:05:00,650 S1: I really want to hear it. 105 00:05:01,690 --> 00:05:05,130 S7: Absolutely. And thank you so much for having me. You know, 106 00:05:05,650 --> 00:05:10,050 S7: Islam was a huge factor in me even having an 107 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:14,010 S7: unhealthy attachment to God, but more so. Janet, I feel 108 00:05:14,010 --> 00:05:17,210 S7: like my life experiences and trauma that took place in 109 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:21,850 S7: my younger years of life impacted how I viewed authority figures, 110 00:05:21,850 --> 00:05:25,530 S7: specifically God. And it made it very difficult for me 111 00:05:25,529 --> 00:05:29,610 S7: to just trust, even when I became a believer, that 112 00:05:29,610 --> 00:05:31,849 S7: I have a God who cares about me, that I 113 00:05:31,890 --> 00:05:34,409 S7: truly have a God who loves me. And so I 114 00:05:34,450 --> 00:05:38,210 S7: grew up in an Islamic household, and my perspective of 115 00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:40,330 S7: life as as a muslim girl was that I was 116 00:05:40,330 --> 00:05:42,930 S7: here for a certain amount of time, and my goal 117 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,170 S7: was to literally my goal in life was to earn 118 00:05:46,170 --> 00:05:50,620 S7: salvation through works. And so Growing up as a muslim, 119 00:05:50,620 --> 00:05:54,180 S7: my identity and even my eternal security were tied to 120 00:05:54,220 --> 00:05:58,500 S7: my parents. Because Islam teaches that your parents can influence 121 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:04,100 S7: your eternal life. And so this is where, like everything 122 00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:06,539 S7: shifted in my life when I was 16 years old, 123 00:06:06,740 --> 00:06:10,620 S7: my parents arranged a marriage for me. And this marriage 124 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:12,900 S7: was for solely for the purpose of staying in the 125 00:06:12,900 --> 00:06:15,860 S7: United States. So imagine I'm a sophomore in high school 126 00:06:16,339 --> 00:06:20,180 S7: and this is a fraudulent marriage. I was told, we're 127 00:06:20,180 --> 00:06:22,940 S7: going to the courthouse. You're going to marry this person 128 00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:25,300 S7: and make sure you don't kiss him on the lips 129 00:06:25,300 --> 00:06:29,940 S7: that I remember. And literally, we're going to come back 130 00:06:29,940 --> 00:06:32,580 S7: home and you're never to bring it up again. And 131 00:06:32,580 --> 00:06:36,659 S7: that's what I did. And so years. Fast forward years 132 00:06:36,660 --> 00:06:40,140 S7: later I turn 18. And while still married on paper, 133 00:06:40,140 --> 00:06:43,100 S7: I start dating a guy behind my parents back because 134 00:06:43,140 --> 00:06:45,940 S7: as a muslim, I wasn't allowed to date even at 18. 135 00:06:45,940 --> 00:06:49,240 S7: And so I got pregnant by him and Janet. I 136 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,600 S7: was petrified. I guess my mom could tell from my 137 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,880 S7: face that something was off, and she confronted me one night. 138 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:58,640 S7: And let's just say it was a bad night for 139 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,479 S7: me that night, and I. I left home and I 140 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,000 S7: ran away from home and miscarried a couple days later. 141 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:10,400 S7: And so it was it was an awful, like road 142 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,960 S7: that God redeemed me from. You know, a few months passed, 143 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,680 S7: and as I was trying to reconcile with my family, 144 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:21,200 S7: I became pregnant again and my parents found out and 145 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,760 S7: threatened that if I didn't abort the baby, they would 146 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:29,240 S7: turn me into immigration for the fraudulent marriage. And, um, 147 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:33,240 S7: between that and they used Islamic teachings, which site that 148 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:35,440 S7: a baby born out of wedlock is condemned to hell. 149 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,720 S7: That's what Islam teaches. Um, and so within a couple 150 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,080 S7: of weeks, I just succumbed to the pressure and had 151 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,300 S7: an abortion. And Janet, even though as a muslim, I 152 00:07:46,740 --> 00:07:49,300 S7: thought I was. It was like an act of mercy. 153 00:07:49,340 --> 00:07:53,540 S7: I still felt broken. Something broke within me. And not 154 00:07:53,540 --> 00:07:56,540 S7: long after that, I was approached by the US marshals 155 00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:59,060 S7: and they were questioning me about the marriage that took 156 00:07:59,060 --> 00:08:04,380 S7: place when I was 16. Oh, I know, it's so much. 157 00:08:04,740 --> 00:08:06,860 S8: Wow. I'm getting to the attachment. 158 00:08:07,860 --> 00:08:09,980 S1: But but I'm thinking, first of all, I'll just pause 159 00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:11,380 S1: in the story for five seconds. And I don't want 160 00:08:11,380 --> 00:08:13,700 S1: to rush this because first of all, I love to 161 00:08:13,740 --> 00:08:16,420 S1: hear how people come to faith in Jesus Christ. It's 162 00:08:16,420 --> 00:08:18,780 S1: that old, old story, like the hymn says, and nobody 163 00:08:18,780 --> 00:08:21,900 S1: should ever get tired of hearing how somebody else comes 164 00:08:21,900 --> 00:08:24,860 S1: to faith in Christ. The day the angels sent up 165 00:08:24,860 --> 00:08:26,500 S1: a roar. The day your name was written in the 166 00:08:26,500 --> 00:08:28,380 S1: Lamb's Book of Life. That's the best story any of 167 00:08:28,380 --> 00:08:30,980 S1: us could hear. But I was also thinking, how gracious 168 00:08:30,980 --> 00:08:33,980 S1: and merciful and good is our God that you went 169 00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:38,060 S1: through this heartbreaking, heart wrenching, horrific, might be so bold, 170 00:08:38,100 --> 00:08:42,420 S1: hellish story. And God turns around and you are wounded. 171 00:08:42,420 --> 00:08:45,400 S1: He now makes you a wounded comforter with a specialty 172 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,240 S1: in dealing with people in trauma. It isn't book learning. 173 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,560 S1: It isn't head knowledge. It's I have been there. I 174 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:53,400 S1: know what trauma is, but I also know how to 175 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,440 S1: heal through it. And let me tell you how God 176 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,440 S1: is so good. His classroom is sometimes as hard, but 177 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,559 S1: it is so worth it. So when we come back, 178 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:02,760 S1: I want to go to the rest of the story 179 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,160 S1: and I want to pick it up with you talking 180 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,720 S1: to the US marshals. I told you I was excited 181 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,040 S1: about this conversation. Kenza Haddock is with us, a wonderful author, 182 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,040 S1: a fabulous Christian counselor. Her latest book, and this is 183 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:15,880 S1: all tied to secure. Believe me, it's called secure. How 184 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,760 S1: to have a Healthy Attachment to God. Very important conversation. 185 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,520 S1: May you be encouraged as we continue right after this. 186 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,050 S1: How does our view of God get distorted. Do you 187 00:09:43,050 --> 00:09:45,530 S1: struggle with feeling close to God? Well, that's why I've 188 00:09:45,530 --> 00:09:48,450 S1: chosen secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. 189 00:09:48,490 --> 00:09:51,010 S1: As this month's truth tool, discover how to counter the 190 00:09:51,010 --> 00:09:53,810 S1: lies about the truth of God's character. Ask for your 191 00:09:53,809 --> 00:09:56,010 S1: copy of secure. When you give a gift of any 192 00:09:56,010 --> 00:10:00,010 S1: amount to in the market, call eight 7758. That's eight 193 00:10:00,050 --> 00:10:04,329 S1: 7758 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. 194 00:10:07,290 --> 00:10:10,970 S1: We are visiting with Ken, who's a licensed professional counselor, 195 00:10:10,970 --> 00:10:15,290 S1: supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist with expertise in 196 00:10:15,290 --> 00:10:19,569 S1: treating complex mental health conditions through clinical and biblical methods. 197 00:10:19,570 --> 00:10:22,290 S1: She's a marvelous speaker and excellent author. Her latest book 198 00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:25,730 S1: is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. 199 00:10:25,730 --> 00:10:29,610 S1: But I think it's paramount you understand where Kenza came from, 200 00:10:29,929 --> 00:10:32,130 S1: how God is using her to deal with people who 201 00:10:32,130 --> 00:10:34,650 S1: have suffered trauma, and how this is all tied to 202 00:10:34,650 --> 00:10:37,130 S1: the idea of attachment to God. All of this connects. 203 00:10:37,130 --> 00:10:38,970 S1: So I want to go back to exactly where we 204 00:10:38,970 --> 00:10:41,830 S1: left off. And that was you had this marriage. It 205 00:10:41,830 --> 00:10:44,550 S1: was planting you in the US by having this marriage 206 00:10:44,550 --> 00:10:48,189 S1: only on paper. And I was stunned by a couple 207 00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:49,830 S1: of things that you said before. Let me just make 208 00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:51,709 S1: a quick observation, then pick it up, if you would, 209 00:10:51,710 --> 00:10:54,270 S1: where you were. I had never heard before, Kenza, that 210 00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:56,790 S1: your mom and your dad can have an impact on 211 00:10:56,790 --> 00:11:00,150 S1: your quote unquote, salvation in Islam. Tell me more about that. 212 00:11:00,990 --> 00:11:07,350 S7: Yes, absolutely. So Islam teaches that my identity is tied 213 00:11:07,350 --> 00:11:11,189 S7: to my parents. So much so that when I go 214 00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:13,350 S7: to write my name, I have to write my last 215 00:11:13,350 --> 00:11:18,710 S7: name first, then my first name. And so they talk about, um, 216 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:23,150 S7: basically on Judgment Day, that's what they that's what they 217 00:11:23,150 --> 00:11:28,110 S7: see happens whenever we pass away. We go before Allah. 218 00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:31,910 S7: And on Judgment Day, if our sins and good works 219 00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:36,710 S7: are to close to one another, they're able. My parents 220 00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:41,010 S7: are able to To influence Allah in his decision as 221 00:11:41,010 --> 00:11:44,090 S7: to where he'll send me to heaven or hell. And 222 00:11:44,090 --> 00:11:47,250 S7: so that makes it. I mean, it puts a huge 223 00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:50,650 S7: burden on the child, even as an adult, to make 224 00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:52,410 S7: sure they appease their parents. 225 00:11:53,290 --> 00:11:56,209 S1: Well, and you talk about attachment boy, my mind is 226 00:11:56,210 --> 00:11:58,250 S1: just racing to see the impact that could have on 227 00:11:58,250 --> 00:12:01,250 S1: somebody's mental health. To think that not only are your 228 00:12:01,250 --> 00:12:04,449 S1: parents the disciplinary and the family, but they can determine 229 00:12:04,450 --> 00:12:07,530 S1: your salvation for eternity. I mean, that is overwhelming. Okay, 230 00:12:07,570 --> 00:12:10,850 S1: so so finally you end up with the US marshal. 231 00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:12,689 S1: Tell me what happens in this conversation. 232 00:12:13,450 --> 00:12:17,010 S7: Yes. So when they showed up, the first thing I 233 00:12:17,010 --> 00:12:19,849 S7: thought about was God is punishing me. And when I 234 00:12:19,850 --> 00:12:22,290 S7: say God, I mean all of my perspective of God. 235 00:12:22,290 --> 00:12:26,569 S7: At the time, I felt like this is him punishing 236 00:12:26,570 --> 00:12:29,690 S7: me for everything I had done. And the US marshals 237 00:12:29,690 --> 00:12:32,650 S7: were more interested in my parents at the time because 238 00:12:32,650 --> 00:12:34,490 S7: the marriage happened when I was underage, but. 239 00:12:34,490 --> 00:12:35,010 S8: I just. 240 00:12:35,010 --> 00:12:38,150 S7: Could not give my parents up because in my mind, 241 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:42,790 S7: they were my only chance for retribution on Judgment Day. 242 00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:46,590 S7: And so I denied. I mean, I literally I lied 243 00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:50,190 S7: to the marshals. I denied that the marriage was fraudulent. 244 00:12:50,190 --> 00:12:53,350 S7: And when my parents found out that I was under investigation, 245 00:12:53,350 --> 00:12:56,070 S7: they said Allah was punishing me for everything I had done. 246 00:12:56,070 --> 00:13:00,910 S7: So even, um, I feel like it reaffirmed my distorted 247 00:13:00,910 --> 00:13:06,390 S7: perception still. And so with my belief that my only 248 00:13:06,429 --> 00:13:10,790 S7: hope for eternity in heaven were my parents, especially with 249 00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:13,350 S7: my list of sins, I was very I knew that 250 00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:16,830 S7: I had sinned against God. Um, I just wouldn't turn 251 00:13:16,830 --> 00:13:19,190 S7: them over. And so I was arrested for obstruction of 252 00:13:19,190 --> 00:13:21,510 S7: justice along with other charges. 253 00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:24,390 S1: Wow. So did you end up getting sentenced as a 254 00:13:24,390 --> 00:13:25,189 S1: result of this? 255 00:13:26,070 --> 00:13:30,750 S7: Absolutely. Yes, I was sentenced. I served around six months 256 00:13:30,750 --> 00:13:35,480 S7: in incarceration. And, um, my attorney, the attorney. My parents 257 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,000 S7: hired at the time. He, um. I pled guilty to 258 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,840 S7: obstruction of justice in exchange for my parents to never 259 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:48,400 S7: get prosecuted, and I felt like I was protecting them. 260 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:50,840 S7: I was sort of making up. 261 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:51,480 S8: For. 262 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,920 S7: All of my sins. I mean, that was my mindset. 263 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:54,800 S8: And so. 264 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,280 S7: I. Yeah, I was released, placed on deportation proceedings. I 265 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,400 S7: had to pay a restitution. And then I just three 266 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,360 S7: years later, immigration proceedings started. And my attorney at the 267 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,320 S7: time said that the only chance I had of remaining 268 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,559 S7: in the country was telling the whole truth. And even then, 269 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,880 S7: my chances of staying were about 5%. And I figured 270 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,400 S7: Janet 5% was better than nothing. So I held on 271 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:27,320 S7: to that hope. Um, I, I told I ran what 272 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,000 S7: my attorney said by my parents and they were livid. 273 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:34,580 S7: They said, how dare I make them look bad? And 274 00:14:34,580 --> 00:14:37,220 S7: so that was one of the most painful experiences I 275 00:14:37,260 --> 00:14:39,740 S7: had in my life, because I was in such a 276 00:14:39,740 --> 00:14:43,460 S7: vulnerable state and I felt like, you know, my parents 277 00:14:43,460 --> 00:14:45,580 S7: were just throwing me to the wolves. They were like, 278 00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:48,180 S7: figure it out on your own. And it's like, I 279 00:14:48,180 --> 00:14:49,620 S7: didn't even start it. 280 00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:52,580 S1: Exactly. But not only that, Kenzie, you're in a position 281 00:14:52,580 --> 00:14:55,340 S1: where you have to make a Hobson's choice, your freedom 282 00:14:55,380 --> 00:14:58,020 S1: or your parents. It was like, I can't win either 283 00:14:58,020 --> 00:15:01,060 S1: way on this. So how did you finally reach a decision? 284 00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:07,220 S7: So thankfully, at the time I was in a relationship 285 00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:10,540 S7: with someone. Not necessarily a healthy one, but at least 286 00:15:10,540 --> 00:15:13,420 S7: I wasn't subjected to my parents influence as much as 287 00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:16,300 S7: I would have if I had been living with them. So. 288 00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:18,460 S7: But I still felt like I was between a rock 289 00:15:18,460 --> 00:15:21,020 S7: and a hard place. If I tell the truth, I 290 00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:24,620 S7: can possibly save myself from an earthly perspective. But because 291 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:27,660 S7: of my list of sins that's stacked up against me, 292 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:31,360 S7: I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and I felt like 293 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,720 S7: then my parents are not going to to stand up 294 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,520 S7: for me in eternal life per se. And so I 295 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:42,960 S7: became so depressed, I experienced suicidal ideations. I thought about 296 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:47,400 S7: ending my life, but my list of sins was so long. 297 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:50,200 S7: I remember one night it was my list of sins 298 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,680 S7: was so long I knew I was spiritually bankrupt and 299 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,200 S7: that if I went ahead and ended my life, I 300 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,160 S7: would end up in hell. And throughout the next couple 301 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,600 S7: of weeks, I cried out to God for mercy. And 302 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,320 S7: when I say God, I mean whoever was willing to 303 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,640 S7: hear me at the time. And that was when around 304 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,880 S7: that time is when I had a dream that it 305 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,840 S7: was the end times and heaven opened. And in my 306 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,120 S7: dream I saw a man in a white robe coming 307 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:26,040 S7: down from heaven. And that man was Jesus. And it 308 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,100 S7: was it was just incredible because I had been tormented 309 00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:34,460 S7: for years, and for the first time I felt this 310 00:16:34,460 --> 00:16:38,300 S7: peace that I could. I could not describe. 311 00:16:38,820 --> 00:16:41,340 S1: Wow. All I could think of when you were talking 312 00:16:41,340 --> 00:16:44,220 S1: is he's not willing that any should perish, and that 313 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:47,460 S1: he'll use any means to draw people to himself. Yes. 314 00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:50,900 S1: Even dreams. And so here is this dream of Jesus 315 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,100 S1: coming to you. I want to pick the story up 316 00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:57,620 S1: exactly at that point, because it's just amazing that you 317 00:16:57,660 --> 00:17:00,060 S1: weren't saying, okay, that's it. I don't want anything to 318 00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:02,180 S1: do with Allah. I don't want anything to do with God. 319 00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:04,300 S1: In fact, I don't want anything to do with religion 320 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:06,900 S1: at all. It's tied me up into an emotional and 321 00:17:06,900 --> 00:17:09,340 S1: mental pretzel to the point where I want to end 322 00:17:09,380 --> 00:17:11,660 S1: my own life. I don't want anything at all. But 323 00:17:11,660 --> 00:17:14,020 S1: that is not how you reacted. I want to dig 324 00:17:14,020 --> 00:17:17,260 S1: deeper into how you did respond to who you saw 325 00:17:17,260 --> 00:17:20,100 S1: in that dream. When we return, Ken Tzaddik is with us. 326 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:24,659 S1: Marvelous speaker and author and a compassionate licensed professional Christian 327 00:17:24,660 --> 00:17:41,109 S1: counselor back after this. Ken is with us. She and 328 00:17:41,109 --> 00:17:43,870 S1: her husband, by the way, own Oceanic Counseling Group, which 329 00:17:43,869 --> 00:17:48,030 S1: is an outpatient mental health agency that's headquartered in South Carolina. 330 00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:50,909 S1: Wonderful author. Her latest book is called Secure How to 331 00:17:50,910 --> 00:17:53,830 S1: Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And our story is 332 00:17:53,830 --> 00:17:56,990 S1: leading to that point. So you have this marvelous dream 333 00:17:56,990 --> 00:17:58,950 S1: you cried out to who was ever there. And the 334 00:17:58,950 --> 00:18:02,590 S1: God who is there did in fact respond. This gets 335 00:18:02,590 --> 00:18:07,350 S1: to the idea of getting attached. So you dream about Jesus. 336 00:18:07,390 --> 00:18:09,989 S1: What happens then? I mean, because this is antithetical to 337 00:18:10,030 --> 00:18:13,750 S1: everything you ever knew, everything you've ever experienced, all of 338 00:18:13,750 --> 00:18:16,590 S1: a sudden, there he is. But in some respects, he's 339 00:18:16,590 --> 00:18:19,110 S1: wonderfully dangerous. Talk to me about this. 340 00:18:20,109 --> 00:18:24,470 S7: Absolutely. You know, I wish I could tell you I. 341 00:18:24,510 --> 00:18:27,450 S7: I saw him and was excited and gave my life 342 00:18:27,450 --> 00:18:30,930 S7: to Jesus and it was great. The issue that I think, 343 00:18:30,970 --> 00:18:34,409 S7: I think is so important that we as believers, even 344 00:18:34,450 --> 00:18:39,530 S7: even remember that we're still we still have a nervous system, right? 345 00:18:39,570 --> 00:18:43,929 S7: And so I saw the God who answered me, but 346 00:18:43,930 --> 00:18:47,530 S7: I still didn't trust him. It took years for me 347 00:18:47,530 --> 00:18:50,890 S7: to to actually develop a healthy relationship with with God. 348 00:18:51,090 --> 00:18:53,690 S7: But it started with that first step. And that first 349 00:18:53,690 --> 00:18:57,129 S7: step for me was trying to figure out, what does 350 00:18:57,130 --> 00:19:01,369 S7: this dream mean? Because yes, it was the complete opposite 351 00:19:01,369 --> 00:19:03,890 S7: of what I grew up with. I grew up believing 352 00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:06,690 S7: that Jesus is just a prophet. There is, you know, 353 00:19:06,730 --> 00:19:09,690 S7: God doesn't have a son. And so I understood that 354 00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:13,970 S7: making that decision meant that I needed to start my 355 00:19:13,970 --> 00:19:17,930 S7: life from scratch, even from a safety perspective. So it 356 00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:21,450 S7: took about 8 to 10 months for me to to 357 00:19:21,490 --> 00:19:25,909 S7: know for sure. Okay. I'm just wound up the courage 358 00:19:25,910 --> 00:19:29,910 S7: and say, okay, I'm moving to South Carolina for safety reasons. Um, 359 00:19:29,950 --> 00:19:34,709 S7: getting away from family. And I'm just going to discover 360 00:19:34,710 --> 00:19:37,750 S7: who Jesus is. And that's what I did. I moved 361 00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:41,030 S7: to South Carolina, gave my life to Jesus. And it's 362 00:19:41,030 --> 00:19:45,470 S7: incredible just how God fathers us. I mean, I moved, 363 00:19:45,510 --> 00:19:48,630 S7: I didn't have anyone there, and he provided people for 364 00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:52,310 S7: me for every aspect of it. Even gave me a 365 00:19:52,310 --> 00:19:55,550 S7: place to live with a woman who let me stay 366 00:19:55,550 --> 00:19:58,550 S7: with her while I was getting on my feet. And 367 00:19:58,910 --> 00:20:03,270 S7: I mean, he provided me with a wonderful husband, and 368 00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:06,070 S7: now I'm not. I'm not saying it was linear. Obviously 369 00:20:06,070 --> 00:20:09,230 S7: it was not linear because God's love is enduring and 370 00:20:09,230 --> 00:20:12,990 S7: he is. He is so patient with us. But I 371 00:20:12,990 --> 00:20:16,510 S7: definitely didn't start out life just running to the throne 372 00:20:16,550 --> 00:20:19,830 S7: of grace. I was more so tiptoeing around God because 373 00:20:20,030 --> 00:20:24,130 S7: my my understanding of him and my attachment to him 374 00:20:24,130 --> 00:20:27,810 S7: was so disorganized. That's what we call it in mental health. 375 00:20:27,850 --> 00:20:32,050 S7: It's disorganized. Meaning? Like I saw him as powerful, but 376 00:20:32,050 --> 00:20:35,770 S7: I was not confident in his love for me and 377 00:20:35,770 --> 00:20:37,369 S7: that that made me anxious. 378 00:20:37,730 --> 00:20:40,570 S1: You used the word and what a. I'm so grateful 379 00:20:40,570 --> 00:20:42,690 S1: that you really just felt the tugging from the Holy 380 00:20:42,690 --> 00:20:46,369 S1: Spirit to tell your story like this. Because it's so important, 381 00:20:46,410 --> 00:20:49,330 S1: not only for people listening all across the country who 382 00:20:49,330 --> 00:20:51,810 S1: are at various places in their relationship with the Lord 383 00:20:51,810 --> 00:20:54,530 S1: and perhaps don't yet know him as Lord and Savior. 384 00:20:54,530 --> 00:20:56,970 S1: And hearing your story is so powerful to see what 385 00:20:57,010 --> 00:21:00,010 S1: God can do and how he rescues and redeems and 386 00:21:00,010 --> 00:21:02,490 S1: restores and does that so well. But this takes us 387 00:21:02,490 --> 00:21:05,570 S1: to this whole idea of attachment. There was a brutal 388 00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:08,449 S1: God in Islam. No matter what you did, you had 389 00:21:08,450 --> 00:21:11,050 S1: to try to earn your salvation. Your parents end up 390 00:21:11,050 --> 00:21:13,609 S1: playing a role in that. This side of eternity, that 391 00:21:13,609 --> 00:21:17,770 S1: side of eternity, you're forced into a false relationship in 392 00:21:17,770 --> 00:21:21,020 S1: order to sort of skirt the law. And so I 393 00:21:21,060 --> 00:21:22,660 S1: can see why you would have said you would have 394 00:21:22,660 --> 00:21:26,699 S1: tiptoed rather than run to his everlasting arms of love. 395 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:28,780 S1: So back this up just a little bit. For people 396 00:21:28,780 --> 00:21:30,820 S1: who don't live in your world, what does the word 397 00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:34,620 S1: attachment mean? Because you didn't superglue yourself to God right away? 398 00:21:34,619 --> 00:21:36,780 S1: It took a while to get there. So in your world, 399 00:21:36,780 --> 00:21:38,540 S1: what does the word attachment mean? 400 00:21:39,460 --> 00:21:45,619 S7: Attachment. So the Lord made us for relationships with with 401 00:21:45,619 --> 00:21:49,619 S7: him and and with one another. And attachment means that 402 00:21:49,619 --> 00:21:52,820 S7: bond that we develop with God in order for us 403 00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:56,020 S7: to feel whole. And so what happens when we don't 404 00:21:56,020 --> 00:22:00,260 S7: develop that healthy attachment or that relationship, that healthy relationship, 405 00:22:00,260 --> 00:22:03,740 S7: or that bond with God? Because we are still made 406 00:22:03,740 --> 00:22:09,100 S7: for relationships, we start attaching ourselves to other people, or 407 00:22:09,420 --> 00:22:12,820 S7: we try to find our identity in work or something else. 408 00:22:12,820 --> 00:22:17,060 S7: And the problem is anyone or anything else that's a 409 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,240 S7: substitute to a loving, powerful, sovereign God is going to 410 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,679 S7: fail us. And that's what starts that dynamic of or 411 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,440 S7: we call it the crazy cycle of anxiety and depression. 412 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,920 S7: It's inner turmoil. And so what I found is really 413 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:38,200 S7: what keeps us from developing a healthy relationship with God 414 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,040 S7: is we hold misperceptions of him. Yes, we do. And 415 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:47,040 S7: and we're not willing to investigate those misperceptions. We're not 416 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,240 S7: willing to say, you know what? Okay, let me find 417 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:55,080 S7: out who God is for myself outside of my relationship 418 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,280 S7: with my parents, outside of what other people portrayed him 419 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,840 S7: to be like, I need to find out for myself 420 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,960 S7: if he is truly a loving God. Because. Yes. And 421 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,920 S7: I'll stop right there really quick. So many people that 422 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,400 S7: I have treated believe in the power of God. They do. 423 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,140 S7: They believe he's sovereign, but they don't believe he's loving, 424 00:23:16,140 --> 00:23:19,140 S7: and that's what keeps them from developing an attachment. 425 00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:21,980 S1: Oh, this is such rich, fertile field. Let me linger 426 00:23:21,980 --> 00:23:25,020 S1: here a little bit. So not just your experience, but 427 00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:27,100 S1: I bet for so many people listening right now, I 428 00:23:27,100 --> 00:23:28,820 S1: don't know why it is and why we're kind of 429 00:23:28,859 --> 00:23:32,180 S1: hardwired to do this, but we tend to superimpose on God. 430 00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:34,940 S1: Whatever the impression of our parent, particularly our father, is 431 00:23:34,940 --> 00:23:37,740 S1: to us. So if he's an absentee dad, he's an 432 00:23:37,740 --> 00:23:41,340 S1: absentee God. If he's a a disciplinarian, a harsh disciplinarian, 433 00:23:41,340 --> 00:23:43,580 S1: then he's a cosmic bully playing whack a mole with 434 00:23:43,580 --> 00:23:46,420 S1: us at every turn. Um, if he's an angry God, 435 00:23:46,420 --> 00:23:48,820 S1: then the God of all creation is an angry God 436 00:23:48,820 --> 00:23:51,379 S1: as well. And so I loved what you said because 437 00:23:51,380 --> 00:23:54,980 S1: it's so insightful, which is why don't we examine where 438 00:23:54,980 --> 00:23:57,100 S1: we're getting those ideas from? And the best way to 439 00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:59,540 S1: do that is to open His word and let God 440 00:23:59,540 --> 00:24:02,340 S1: reveal himself to you. So I want to pick it 441 00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:04,619 S1: up at exactly that point when we get back, because 442 00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:07,500 S1: this is really I mean, I want to have this rich, 443 00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,580 S1: deep relationship with him, but I, I understand that sometimes 444 00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:12,220 S1: I have to take out the hedge trimmers and trim 445 00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:15,109 S1: away the bramble bushes that keep me from having that healthy, 446 00:24:15,150 --> 00:24:19,350 S1: secure attachment to a God who loves me always and forever. 447 00:24:19,390 --> 00:24:21,270 S1: Ken Haddock is with us. Her new book is called 448 00:24:21,270 --> 00:24:23,790 S1: Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. It's 449 00:24:23,790 --> 00:24:26,070 S1: a small book, but it's a powerful book and there's 450 00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:40,230 S1: so much to cover. We'll continue right after this. We 451 00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:43,830 S1: were created for relationships. Developing a healthy attachment to God 452 00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:46,949 S1: helps us form good relationships with others, and that's why 453 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:49,870 S1: I've chosen secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. 454 00:24:49,869 --> 00:24:52,710 S1: As this month's truth tool, discover how real security is 455 00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:55,350 S1: found in your relationship with God. As for your copy 456 00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:57,190 S1: of secure, when you give a gift of any amount 457 00:24:57,190 --> 00:25:02,310 S1: to in the market, call 877. 58 that's eight 7758 458 00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:07,350 S1: or go to in the market with Janet Parshall. It 459 00:25:07,350 --> 00:25:09,550 S1: is so good to have Ken on the program, a 460 00:25:09,550 --> 00:25:14,490 S1: licensed professional counselor supervisor and an accredited clinical trauma specialist 461 00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:18,210 S1: with expertise in treating complex mental health conditions through both 462 00:25:18,210 --> 00:25:22,530 S1: clinical and biblical methods. Kenseth speaks at conferences and churches. 463 00:25:22,530 --> 00:25:25,250 S1: She's interviewed all the time, and she and her husband 464 00:25:25,290 --> 00:25:29,090 S1: own Oceanic Counseling Group, which is an outpatient mental health 465 00:25:29,090 --> 00:25:32,889 S1: agency that's located in South Carolina. She's written two previous books, 466 00:25:32,890 --> 00:25:36,490 S1: The Three Enemies of Your Mental Health and the Ex-Muslims 467 00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:38,609 S1: Guide to Christianity, and you've got a little sneak peek 468 00:25:38,609 --> 00:25:41,170 S1: into that as you heard part of her testimony. Her 469 00:25:41,170 --> 00:25:44,250 S1: latest book and her testimony leads us right to this 470 00:25:44,250 --> 00:25:47,369 S1: book is called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment 471 00:25:47,369 --> 00:25:50,570 S1: to God. So we just recognized before the break this 472 00:25:50,570 --> 00:25:53,609 S1: reality for right or wrong, we tend to superimpose on 473 00:25:53,609 --> 00:25:56,970 S1: God an image of our parents, particularly our dad, and 474 00:25:56,970 --> 00:26:01,130 S1: whatever outstanding definer of our dad is the outstanding definer 475 00:26:01,130 --> 00:26:04,050 S1: for God. You challenged us rightfully to say, wait a minute, 476 00:26:04,050 --> 00:26:06,570 S1: go back and start looking at some of those myths. 477 00:26:06,570 --> 00:26:09,130 S1: And you do that by examining the Word of God 478 00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:11,869 S1: In this process of trying to figure out how I 479 00:26:11,869 --> 00:26:14,389 S1: can feel secure in my relationship to God, or to 480 00:26:14,430 --> 00:26:16,830 S1: have a healthy attachment, as you put it. You write 481 00:26:16,830 --> 00:26:19,669 S1: that we all have a different attachment style. Talk to 482 00:26:19,670 --> 00:26:21,189 S1: me a little bit about those styles. 483 00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:28,190 S7: Yes, absolutely. So we have, depending on the way our 484 00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:33,430 S7: authority figures were, we can develop a different attachment style. 485 00:26:33,470 --> 00:26:38,310 S7: And so for example we can be anxious around God. 486 00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:41,990 S7: If we had a parent who was very intrusive or 487 00:26:41,990 --> 00:26:46,790 S7: clingy or we felt, for example, uh, guilty for wanting 488 00:26:46,790 --> 00:26:49,750 S7: to be independent. Then as a result, we're going to 489 00:26:49,750 --> 00:26:52,470 S7: feel like God is controlling. Or maybe there was a 490 00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:56,590 S7: ton of emphasis on performance, or maybe the authority figure 491 00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:59,630 S7: or parent lived through you, or vicariously through you, or 492 00:26:59,630 --> 00:27:04,630 S7: maybe the parents anxiety transmitted to you. That's how we 493 00:27:04,670 --> 00:27:09,250 S7: develop an anxious attachment. And so when we feel anxious 494 00:27:09,250 --> 00:27:14,010 S7: around God, we're sort of feeling like walking around on eggshells, 495 00:27:14,010 --> 00:27:17,370 S7: feeling like God is disappointed with me. God expects me 496 00:27:17,369 --> 00:27:23,090 S7: to be perfect. Janet, I've even had someone misquote scripture, 497 00:27:23,090 --> 00:27:25,250 S7: and I mean, they didn't know that. But they said, 498 00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:27,930 S7: doesn't it say you need to be perfect like your 499 00:27:27,930 --> 00:27:31,169 S7: Heavenly father is perfect? And I said that. But that's 500 00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:33,970 S7: not that's not the context of that. 501 00:27:34,810 --> 00:27:35,449 S9: That's right. 502 00:27:36,250 --> 00:27:38,530 S7: The context of it is not that we're supposed to 503 00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:41,970 S7: be perfect and not get anything wrong. The context of 504 00:27:41,970 --> 00:27:46,610 S7: it was forgiveness, which he he he enables us to. 505 00:27:46,930 --> 00:27:51,930 S7: And so that's anxious attachment. The, the other attachment is 506 00:27:51,930 --> 00:27:55,850 S7: when we have a distant parent that's more like the 507 00:27:55,850 --> 00:28:00,330 S7: avoidant attachment. That parent is unavailable to comfort us or 508 00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:03,530 S7: they you feel like your feelings were minimized or not 509 00:28:03,530 --> 00:28:07,740 S7: validated growing up. So then you grow up doubting your reality, 510 00:28:07,940 --> 00:28:11,340 S7: or you wonder if if you need to just keep 511 00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:15,260 S7: repressing your emotions. And so the parent maybe was annoyed 512 00:28:15,260 --> 00:28:17,940 S7: with you when you needed their help. And so you 513 00:28:17,980 --> 00:28:20,580 S7: grow up with the idea that asking for help is 514 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:24,500 S7: wrong and or that it makes you look needy. And therefore, 515 00:28:24,859 --> 00:28:28,219 S7: you know, when God says, come to me, you doubt 516 00:28:28,220 --> 00:28:30,580 S7: and you think, no, no, God wants me to have 517 00:28:30,580 --> 00:28:34,340 S7: it all together. Those are the main two. Now the 518 00:28:34,340 --> 00:28:38,140 S7: third one, disorganized attachment is when we have. I've seen 519 00:28:38,140 --> 00:28:40,740 S7: it a lot when we have one parent who leans 520 00:28:40,740 --> 00:28:45,780 S7: on one end who's like overly, um, maybe enmeshed or intrusive, 521 00:28:45,780 --> 00:28:49,700 S7: and the other parent is just checked out. Um, and 522 00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:51,420 S7: that's what I've seen a lot. And so then you 523 00:28:51,420 --> 00:28:57,220 S7: have those two misperceptions of God together. And so, you know, 524 00:28:57,260 --> 00:28:59,459 S7: you don't know if God is is going to be 525 00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:01,580 S7: upset with you one day or if he's going to 526 00:29:01,580 --> 00:29:02,540 S7: be happy with you. 527 00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:05,560 S1: Yeah, exactly. I call it The Lady or the Tiger 528 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,240 S1: based on that old story. I mean, you're never quite 529 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,880 S1: sure what kind of a response you're going to get, 530 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,880 S1: which is so interesting. You know, the more you talk, 531 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,400 S1: the more I realize the power of a parent. It 532 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,520 S1: toughest job in the world. You're not elected. You're appointed 533 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,720 S1: to that job. It is on the job training. And 534 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,920 S1: as my mama used to say, you are a parent 535 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,800 S1: until the day they put you in the ground and 536 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:25,560 S1: to stop and think. As a parent, I don't know 537 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,320 S1: about any other parent out there, but it takes your 538 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440 S1: breath away to think, oh merciful heavens, I could have 539 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,120 S1: either drawn my child closer to the Lord or based 540 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:34,840 S1: on the way in which I parented, I could have 541 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:37,520 S1: pushed them away from the Lord or made them anxious 542 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,680 S1: about their relationship with the Lord, or made them feel 543 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,360 S1: that God was distant. I mean, it's bad enough to 544 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,680 S1: think that you've made mistakes as a parent and not 545 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,400 S1: to file. Ladies and gentlemen, here's the headline of the 546 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,200 S1: day no perfect parents. Now take a deep breath and relax. 547 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080 S1: But there is a perfect parent and his name is God. 548 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,960 S1: So when we realize what parents can do, particularly in 549 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,960 S1: what you do and the work that God has called 550 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:02,380 S1: you to, how do you restore the damage, the bruising 551 00:30:02,380 --> 00:30:05,660 S1: that's taking place so often unintentionally. It's just, you know, 552 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:07,700 S1: the old adage you parent the way you were parented. 553 00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,340 S1: So generations of the way people were parented tend to 554 00:30:10,380 --> 00:30:13,420 S1: get passed down. But what I want is to secure 555 00:30:13,460 --> 00:30:16,500 S1: relationship with a God who never stops loving me and 556 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,180 S1: loves me. Period. Not comma. A bunch of prepositions if, when, 557 00:30:20,180 --> 00:30:23,220 S1: but but period. How do you break through the damage 558 00:30:23,220 --> 00:30:24,860 S1: of the past to get to that place? 559 00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:28,540 S7: I love that, and you know, you touched on it 560 00:30:28,540 --> 00:30:32,100 S7: a little bit earlier and that is going to the 561 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,300 S7: Word of God. We have to go to the Word 562 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:36,700 S7: of God. And this is not just being hyper spiritual. 563 00:30:36,740 --> 00:30:37,740 S9: This is critical. 564 00:30:37,780 --> 00:30:43,060 S7: Because because God created us with billions of nerve cells 565 00:30:43,060 --> 00:30:46,740 S7: that are actively working to make new connections in our brain. 566 00:30:46,740 --> 00:30:50,940 S7: So the more truth you learn about these these topics, 567 00:30:51,140 --> 00:30:54,740 S7: the more just for example, in my life, the more I, 568 00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:58,140 S7: I read Scripture and I saw that God is truly faithful. 569 00:30:58,140 --> 00:31:01,760 S7: God is loving when God says he's going to do something, 570 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,880 S7: he comes through on his promise. What happens? There's a 571 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:12,240 S7: concept in clinical psychology called neuroplasticity. My brain starts renewing 572 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,760 S7: the idea in the perspective, its perspective on God. And 573 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,720 S7: that's what renew in our mind is God. When God 574 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,600 S7: gave us that verse, he knew how he created us. 575 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,840 S7: Now it doesn't take one week or two weeks. It 576 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,480 S7: takes persistence. And I mean it takes persistent work. It 577 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:35,400 S7: takes us approaching God and and establishing that emotional safety. 578 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,440 S7: And it's a it's a multi-step process, but it starts 579 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:43,080 S7: with getting to know the word of God and establishing 580 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,920 S7: emotional safety. And what I mean by that is just 581 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,160 S7: talk to God about your day. You know, for example, 582 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,080 S7: I can tell him, you know, today I talked to 583 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:54,160 S7: a Janet, today I did X, Y, and Z. We 584 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,160 S7: don't have to approach God with only big matters. Practice 585 00:31:58,290 --> 00:32:00,650 S7: talking to him about your day to day, and that 586 00:32:00,650 --> 00:32:03,770 S7: helps let your guard down. That's that's the first step. 587 00:32:03,810 --> 00:32:05,690 S1: Oh, can we linger here because this is such a 588 00:32:05,690 --> 00:32:08,810 S1: good point. You know, again, I think so often we 589 00:32:08,850 --> 00:32:13,050 S1: adhere to tradition and ritual as opposed to the breathing 590 00:32:13,090 --> 00:32:16,210 S1: aspects of the Word of God. It is a relationship 591 00:32:16,210 --> 00:32:21,730 S1: predicated on love. That's the cornerstone of everything about Christianity, 592 00:32:21,770 --> 00:32:25,730 S1: a relationship built on love. So I love the idea 593 00:32:25,770 --> 00:32:27,810 S1: about talking to him. You know, I, I have the 594 00:32:27,850 --> 00:32:29,969 S1: saying that in my life, well, I'll say amen at 595 00:32:29,970 --> 00:32:32,330 S1: the end of my prayers. I know that the final 596 00:32:32,330 --> 00:32:34,730 S1: amen is stated in his presence. So talking to him 597 00:32:34,730 --> 00:32:36,850 S1: all day long about all kinds of things. Lord, I'm 598 00:32:36,850 --> 00:32:39,770 S1: feeling anxious right now. Lord, I'm worried about this. Lord, 599 00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:43,730 S1: thank you for this Lord and that constant ongoing communication. 600 00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:45,729 S1: That's what I would do to a human being I 601 00:32:45,730 --> 00:32:48,410 S1: wanted to develop a relationship with. It seems to me 602 00:32:48,410 --> 00:32:51,450 S1: that there might be some emotional, mental and spiritual health 603 00:32:51,450 --> 00:32:54,690 S1: and having that ongoing conversation with my father as well 604 00:32:54,690 --> 00:32:57,230 S1: without thinking, ritualistic. Oh no, no, no, wait a minute. 605 00:32:57,270 --> 00:32:59,310 S1: You know he's the king of all creation. Yes, he 606 00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:02,630 S1: is that. But he's also ABBA, father. And therein lies 607 00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:05,270 S1: the friction, I think we think that we can't have 608 00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:07,830 S1: an intimate relationship with the King of creation. Those are 609 00:33:07,830 --> 00:33:09,990 S1: like one of these things is not like the other, right? 610 00:33:10,910 --> 00:33:15,510 S7: Absolutely, absolutely. We look at it as if he is sovereign. 611 00:33:15,510 --> 00:33:16,910 S7: Then he must be distant. 612 00:33:16,910 --> 00:33:18,709 S9: And that's that's not true. 613 00:33:19,110 --> 00:33:22,670 S7: Absolutely. Yes. That is I mean, you nailed that. And 614 00:33:22,670 --> 00:33:26,950 S7: that is the number one just threshold that we have 615 00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:30,350 S7: to cross. And then after that we have to start 616 00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:35,230 S7: developing transparency. It's it's so we can't we can't go 617 00:33:35,230 --> 00:33:38,470 S7: from giving our lives to Jesus or just being so 618 00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:41,310 S7: closed off with God to saying, okay, I'm just going 619 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:43,910 S7: to develop a healthy attachment with him in one week. No, 620 00:33:43,910 --> 00:33:46,790 S7: it takes time for your brain to for your nervous 621 00:33:46,790 --> 00:33:50,350 S7: system to calm down around God. And you mentioned something 622 00:33:50,350 --> 00:33:54,810 S7: earlier about intimacy. You know, there is something that I 623 00:33:54,850 --> 00:33:57,970 S7: have have asked my patients to do, and I try 624 00:33:58,010 --> 00:34:00,090 S7: to do it as much as I as I can. 625 00:34:00,210 --> 00:34:03,730 S7: Every morning, first thing in the morning, instead of waking 626 00:34:03,730 --> 00:34:07,810 S7: up and checking our emails and and skyrocketing our dopamine, 627 00:34:07,850 --> 00:34:11,050 S7: the first thing we can do is just take five 628 00:34:11,050 --> 00:34:13,810 S7: minutes and say, and just thank God for everything that 629 00:34:13,810 --> 00:34:16,049 S7: he has given you. Lord, thank you for my children. 630 00:34:16,050 --> 00:34:17,930 S7: Or Lord, thank you for the roof over my head. 631 00:34:17,930 --> 00:34:20,930 S7: Thank you that I have a bed to sleep on. 632 00:34:21,010 --> 00:34:22,930 S7: Just things like that. And here's the thing we can 633 00:34:22,930 --> 00:34:26,089 S7: always find something to thank God for. Here's why this 634 00:34:26,090 --> 00:34:29,850 S7: is important. As we develop a healthy relationship with God, 635 00:34:30,250 --> 00:34:34,410 S7: as we thank him, our body literally starts in our mind, 636 00:34:34,450 --> 00:34:38,530 S7: starts bringing to mind things that we are grateful for, 637 00:34:38,570 --> 00:34:41,969 S7: and our body releases serotonin. And that's the happy hormone. 638 00:34:42,130 --> 00:34:45,890 S7: So our body from a clinical perspective releases serotonin, which 639 00:34:45,890 --> 00:34:50,209 S7: is a natural antidepressant. From a spiritual perspective, the Word 640 00:34:50,210 --> 00:34:53,710 S7: of God says that God his presence inhabits the praises 641 00:34:53,710 --> 00:34:56,870 S7: of his people. And so right there, first thing in 642 00:34:56,870 --> 00:35:00,670 S7: the morning, you're inviting God's presence into your day. And so, 643 00:35:00,670 --> 00:35:03,069 S7: rather than checking our emails and I know, I know, 644 00:35:03,070 --> 00:35:03,950 S7: it's so hard. 645 00:35:05,030 --> 00:35:07,030 S9: To invite God's presence first thing. 646 00:35:07,950 --> 00:35:10,630 S1: But I love the fact that you pointed out the physiology. 647 00:35:10,790 --> 00:35:13,350 S1: In fact, I just think just bigger picture, wide angle 648 00:35:13,350 --> 00:35:15,710 S1: lens for a minute. I love it when science affirms 649 00:35:15,710 --> 00:35:17,950 S1: what the Bible has already told us. And I think 650 00:35:17,950 --> 00:35:20,270 S1: the best mental health book out there is the Word 651 00:35:20,270 --> 00:35:23,030 S1: of God. So this idea of being anxious for nothing, 652 00:35:23,030 --> 00:35:26,350 S1: but with prayer and supplication and thanksgiving, you just gave 653 00:35:26,350 --> 00:35:29,189 S1: us an example of early morning thanksgiving prayers. Let your 654 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:31,790 S1: requests be made known unto God. Not only am I 655 00:35:31,790 --> 00:35:34,790 S1: stepping into obedience from a loving father who tells me 656 00:35:34,830 --> 00:35:39,710 S1: about my relationship with him, but my brain is being rewired. 657 00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:42,430 S1: I'm releasing the good stuff in my body. I mean, 658 00:35:42,469 --> 00:35:45,910 S1: all of the facts that we are fearfully and wonderfully made. 659 00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:48,549 S1: I think we do ourselves a disservice by just narrowing 660 00:35:48,590 --> 00:35:51,440 S1: applying that to the pro-life movement. 100%. It should be 661 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,080 S1: applied there. But the magnificence of who we are and 662 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,520 S1: how God made us is almost beyond human comprehension. Just 663 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,920 S1: starting the day with thanksgiving begins to change who you 664 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,239 S1: are physiologically, emotionally, mentally, and most assuredly spiritually. You know 665 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:08,359 S1: the book. This latest book that Kent has authored is 666 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,600 S1: called Secure How to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. 667 00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:14,440 S1: It's a small book. I haven't scratched the surface. So 668 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:30,840 S1: small but mighty. I would say more after this. Kenzie 669 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,320 S1: is with us. Christian author, licensed professional counselor, board certified counselor, 670 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,120 S1: co-owner of Oceanic Counseling Group in South Carolina along with 671 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,120 S1: her husband. The latest book that she's authored, Secure How 672 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:43,960 S1: to Have a Healthy Attachment to God. And I meant 673 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,640 S1: what I said just before the break. Small but mighty. 674 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,140 S1: There is so much in here. And this is this 675 00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:51,339 S1: is a crucial issue. Kenzie, you probably know this more 676 00:36:51,340 --> 00:36:53,580 S1: than me. This is just me. Better and bruised and 677 00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:57,259 S1: my years of walking the Pilgrim's Progress path. But so 678 00:36:57,260 --> 00:37:00,660 S1: many people, if their relationship with their earthly dad was good, 679 00:37:00,700 --> 00:37:02,620 S1: that's odds are they got a great relationship with their 680 00:37:02,620 --> 00:37:05,779 S1: Heavenly Father. If they've got any kinds of problems, it 681 00:37:05,820 --> 00:37:10,219 S1: keeps them far away, close distance, fearful. I mean, it's 682 00:37:10,219 --> 00:37:12,860 S1: just so sad because it can be so much richer 683 00:37:12,860 --> 00:37:14,540 S1: and so much better. You point out in the book 684 00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:17,540 S1: that God is a merciful judge. God is a faithful friend. 685 00:37:17,580 --> 00:37:19,339 S1: God is a loving father. OOP! Let me hit the 686 00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:21,980 S1: brakes right there. You said something. I want to underscore 687 00:37:22,020 --> 00:37:24,180 S1: again that this isn't a two week crash course. This 688 00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:28,700 S1: can be a lifetime of having to repair and rebuild 689 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:32,500 S1: and restore. If your daddy wasn't loving, your earthly daddy 690 00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:34,620 S1: wasn't loving, how in the world can you even begin 691 00:37:34,620 --> 00:37:37,580 S1: to conceptualize what it means to have a Heavenly Father 692 00:37:37,580 --> 00:37:38,580 S1: as being loving? 693 00:37:40,660 --> 00:37:44,900 S10: Yes, yes. So it goes back to. 694 00:37:44,940 --> 00:37:49,120 S7: Spending time with God and just investing that time with 695 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,200 S7: him because it's going. Listen, it's going to be scary 696 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,399 S7: in the beginning. I can tell you from experience. There 697 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,280 S7: were many times when I was trying to practice transparency 698 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,560 S7: with God, just picking one thing that was weighing me down, 699 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,279 S7: for example, whether it was shame from my past or 700 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:08,200 S7: a burden I was carrying and talking to God about it. 701 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,319 S7: And Janet, I mean, I am embarrassed to say that 702 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,520 S7: it took years because there were times when I would 703 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,440 S7: tell him and then I would wait for like, something 704 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,919 S7: to strike me down or someone. I mean, I was 705 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,320 S7: so scared. That's how petrified I was of God. And 706 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:28,440 S7: so but by practicing and and just talking to him, 707 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:33,719 S7: I started feeling seen and feeling heard and truly appropriating 708 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,880 S7: God's Word. You know, when he says that he delights 709 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:38,319 S7: over us with singing, that he. 710 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:39,399 S9: Loves us with. 711 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,520 S7: Everlasting love, but see some. In the beginning those words 712 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,820 S7: were just going in one ear and out the other, 713 00:38:45,820 --> 00:38:49,660 S7: until I took a step of faith and started sharing 714 00:38:49,660 --> 00:38:52,740 S7: my heart with him. And and I know that he 715 00:38:52,739 --> 00:38:57,180 S7: knows it already. But it's so important that we that 716 00:38:57,180 --> 00:38:59,460 S7: we talk to him and share our hearts with him, 717 00:38:59,460 --> 00:39:03,940 S7: because that's how over time, we learn to to discern 718 00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:08,380 S7: his presence and just and just feel seen and heard. 719 00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:11,339 S1: Yeah. Amen. And the transparency is such a key issue. 720 00:39:11,380 --> 00:39:14,180 S1: You know, he's God. We are not. He already knows. 721 00:39:14,180 --> 00:39:16,380 S1: So what do we think we're hiding from God? It's so. 722 00:39:17,219 --> 00:39:20,460 S1: He must laugh at us so many times thinking, I'm God, 723 00:39:20,460 --> 00:39:22,980 S1: I know you. I knew you before time began. All right? 724 00:39:22,980 --> 00:39:25,939 S1: I know exactly what's going on. You know, you write 725 00:39:25,940 --> 00:39:28,739 S1: that God pursues us. He calls us to himself. He 726 00:39:28,739 --> 00:39:31,700 S1: redeems us. He welcomes us in our mess. He gives 727 00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:34,020 S1: us worth that no one can ever take away from us. 728 00:39:34,020 --> 00:39:35,779 S1: I love the way you wrote that and then gave 729 00:39:35,780 --> 00:39:38,540 S1: scripture for every single one of those. But here's the 730 00:39:38,540 --> 00:39:41,780 S1: amazing part there's not a single mortal, not your husband 731 00:39:41,780 --> 00:39:44,950 S1: to you. Not my husband to me. No mortal can 732 00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:47,470 S1: do this. As much as we might love our spouse. 733 00:39:47,510 --> 00:39:51,189 S1: God loves us in a deeper, broader Romans talks about this. 734 00:39:51,230 --> 00:39:53,669 S1: You know, the magnificence of God, the width, the depth, 735 00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:56,469 S1: the breadth. So it really, when you think about it, 736 00:39:56,469 --> 00:39:59,029 S1: I've got a mortal's mind. I'm trying to comprehend the 737 00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:02,630 S1: utterly incomprehensible. And for some people it's like I have 738 00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:05,230 S1: that's mental, emotional and spiritual fatigue. I can't I can't 739 00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:07,710 S1: even go to that exercise because it's too big for 740 00:40:07,710 --> 00:40:10,469 S1: me to comprehend. Give a word of encouragement to people 741 00:40:10,469 --> 00:40:11,989 S1: who have thought that, because I know that there are 742 00:40:11,989 --> 00:40:13,989 S1: people who throw in the towel before they even run 743 00:40:13,989 --> 00:40:17,469 S1: the race because they're thinking, I can't, I don't, I don't, 744 00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:20,350 S1: I'm afraid I can't trust, I don't know, real love. 745 00:40:20,350 --> 00:40:23,710 S1: And I'm supposed to believe this unseen God loves me, 746 00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:26,950 S1: pursues me, calls me to himself. I don't know, it's 747 00:40:26,950 --> 00:40:28,710 S1: just too big for me to comprehend. What would you 748 00:40:28,710 --> 00:40:29,510 S1: say to that person? 749 00:40:30,350 --> 00:40:34,910 S7: I would say it goes back to feeling unworthy of it. 750 00:40:34,910 --> 00:40:38,589 S7: And here's the great thing that I've had to learn 751 00:40:38,790 --> 00:40:42,210 S7: in my pride putting my pride down. None of us 752 00:40:42,210 --> 00:40:44,770 S7: are worthy of it. And that's the great thing. Because 753 00:40:44,770 --> 00:40:47,250 S7: if we were, then we would have to maintain it. 754 00:40:47,969 --> 00:40:50,290 S7: None of us were worthy of it to begin with. 755 00:40:50,330 --> 00:40:53,770 S7: He's just a loving God. He's a loving father. I mean, 756 00:40:53,810 --> 00:40:57,250 S7: even Romans 832 said he didn't spare his own son. 757 00:40:57,650 --> 00:40:59,810 S7: He delivered him up for us all. And so how 758 00:40:59,810 --> 00:41:01,930 S7: can he not also with him give us all things? 759 00:41:02,050 --> 00:41:06,490 S7: And so he loved you that much, and he loves 760 00:41:06,489 --> 00:41:08,690 S7: you that much. And he loves me that much. He 761 00:41:08,730 --> 00:41:13,450 S7: continuously pursues us. And a lot of times also, it 762 00:41:13,489 --> 00:41:17,450 S7: comes down to not being willing to process through pain 763 00:41:17,450 --> 00:41:21,370 S7: that we still don't understand with God. And I would say, 764 00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:24,529 S7: go to him and talk to him about that pain. 765 00:41:24,570 --> 00:41:28,490 S7: Is he going to give you a reason why it happened? Maybe. 766 00:41:28,489 --> 00:41:31,969 S7: Maybe not. But what you'll come out with is peace 767 00:41:31,969 --> 00:41:35,209 S7: that surpasses understanding. Because he is the Prince of Peace. 768 00:41:35,210 --> 00:41:37,890 S7: He knows how he made your heart. He knows how 769 00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:41,270 S7: to pick up every piece and put it together in 770 00:41:41,270 --> 00:41:44,190 S7: his presence. Because at the end of the day, when 771 00:41:44,190 --> 00:41:46,830 S7: we're in the midst of his presence, reading His word 772 00:41:46,830 --> 00:41:51,149 S7: and seeing just how faithful he is, nothing else matters. 773 00:41:51,310 --> 00:41:54,510 S1: Amen and amen. Years ago, I wrote in my Bible 774 00:41:54,550 --> 00:41:58,589 S1: because this goes directly to the point you were just making. Lord, 775 00:41:58,870 --> 00:42:02,590 S1: help me to trust you when I cannot see your hand. 776 00:42:02,590 --> 00:42:05,270 S1: But I can always trust your heart. So this goes 777 00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:08,270 S1: to this idea of letting him lead. You know there 778 00:42:08,310 --> 00:42:10,230 S1: is a trust element there. You know, if you look 779 00:42:10,230 --> 00:42:13,229 S1: back and you've got brokenness in your relationship with your 780 00:42:13,230 --> 00:42:17,189 S1: attachment with other mortals, and you're trying to build this 781 00:42:17,190 --> 00:42:21,190 S1: relationship with the great King Immortal himself, there has to 782 00:42:21,230 --> 00:42:23,589 S1: be there might be brokenness that takes a long time 783 00:42:23,590 --> 00:42:26,069 S1: to repair, but there has to be an element of trust. 784 00:42:26,270 --> 00:42:28,750 S1: How do we start to practice trusting him? 785 00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:33,989 S7: Absolutely. So it's going to be step by step. And 786 00:42:33,989 --> 00:42:37,069 S7: just remember this God is not going to throw in 787 00:42:37,110 --> 00:42:41,570 S7: the towel on you. I feel like sometimes we superimpose 788 00:42:41,610 --> 00:42:43,130 S7: our own beliefs also. 789 00:42:43,130 --> 00:42:43,570 S9: Because. 790 00:42:43,570 --> 00:42:46,049 S7: We're willing to give up on ourselves. We think, you 791 00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:48,290 S7: know what? God who is sovereign, is going to give 792 00:42:48,290 --> 00:42:50,570 S7: up on me. God will never give up on you 793 00:42:50,570 --> 00:42:53,410 S7: if you're tired. Tell him I'm tired. If you're anxious, 794 00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:55,530 S7: tell him I'm anxious and I need you. 795 00:42:56,450 --> 00:43:00,009 S1: Yeah. Amen and amen. Wow. Quickly. Toward the end, you 796 00:43:00,010 --> 00:43:03,009 S1: talk about learning to discern God's leading in our life. 797 00:43:03,010 --> 00:43:03,850 S1: How do we do that? 798 00:43:04,730 --> 00:43:10,490 S7: Yes. Pay attention if you're being pulled in a particular direction. Um. 799 00:43:10,489 --> 00:43:14,370 S7: Or if you have peace about your decision. Anywhere God 800 00:43:14,370 --> 00:43:18,410 S7: is leading you, for sure, make sure it it does 801 00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:21,650 S7: not contradict his word, but also watch for your shift 802 00:43:21,650 --> 00:43:24,130 S7: in circumstances. A lot of times we don't want to 803 00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:25,690 S7: move until God moves us. 804 00:43:25,969 --> 00:43:29,529 S1: Yeah, exactly. Isn't that the truth? Wow. Kenza, I'm. It 805 00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:32,090 S1: isn't just empty words. I cannot tell you how powerful 806 00:43:32,090 --> 00:43:34,969 S1: this small book is. It's just wonderful. And I have 807 00:43:34,969 --> 00:43:37,980 S1: to tell you, it's one of those cornerstone books, because 808 00:43:37,980 --> 00:43:41,700 S1: if you do not feel a secure, healthy attachment to God, 809 00:43:41,980 --> 00:43:44,900 S1: that's okay. There's some brokenness there. Now, what do you 810 00:43:44,940 --> 00:43:47,980 S1: do to get through that so that you can experience 811 00:43:47,980 --> 00:43:52,260 S1: the great, merciful, loving, righteous God that is our Heavenly Father? 812 00:43:52,460 --> 00:43:54,780 S1: I really want to encourage you in my classroom, everybody 813 00:43:54,780 --> 00:43:57,100 S1: would be required to read this because if you came 814 00:43:57,100 --> 00:43:59,900 S1: to have give us life and to give it abundantly, 815 00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:03,180 S1: I think certainly that has to understand the abundant relationship 816 00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:05,500 S1: we can have with the living God himself. So check 817 00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:08,180 S1: it out. I've got all the information on my website 818 00:44:08,180 --> 00:44:12,820 S1: in the market with Janet Parshall, just below the program description. 819 00:44:12,820 --> 00:44:15,420 S1: There's a box, it says program details and audio. The 820 00:44:15,420 --> 00:44:17,380 S1: box is read. Clicking on it takes you to the 821 00:44:17,380 --> 00:44:20,500 S1: information page. A longer bio for Ken's, a beautiful picture 822 00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:23,219 S1: of Kenza, a direct link to her website and on 823 00:44:23,219 --> 00:44:25,260 S1: the right hand side, the book we've been talking about 824 00:44:25,260 --> 00:44:28,860 S1: secure how to have a healthy attachment to God. Kenza. 825 00:44:29,060 --> 00:44:31,739 S1: Thank you for a fabulous conversation. Thank you friends, we'll 826 00:44:31,739 --> 00:44:32,500 S1: see you next time.