S1: Digital media. You hear about it all the time and
S1: digital media is just getting started. Coming up, we'll talk
S1: with a guest in Israel leading a ministry that is
S1: strategically using digital media to reach Jews and Arabs with
S1: the gospel stories to encourage you, statistics that will astonish you.
S1: Plus all the headlines from the Middle East, including an
S1: update in depth on the current conflict. Welcome to the
S1: land and the book with Israel expert Dr. Charlie Dyer.
S1: I'm John Geiger and Charlie, you know, as people are
S1: online and following this war, they're wondering what the future
S1: holds for Israel. And while some things are uncertain, the
S1: Bible does give us an outline of what will happen
S1: in the last days. That's right, John. That's why our.
S2: Friends at Life and Messiah recently hosted a prophecy conference
S2: focused specifically on this topic, Israel and the church living
S2: in the last days. They're now making the videos of
S2: the conference available for early access exclusively to the land.
S2: In the book listeners, you'll hear from many knowledgeable speakers
S2: on this topic, including Moody Radio host Michael Rudnick and me.
S2: These encouraging and informative videos will help you better understand
S2: God's future plans, and how we can be actively waiting
S2: to get access to this video series. Visit Life in
S2: Messiah org and click on the Moody Radio button to
S2: sign up. That's Life in messiah.org.
S1: Well, it's now been three weeks since Hamas brutal massacre
S1: and abduction of Israelis. What has been happening, Charlie, lately?
S1: And why does it seem like Israel has been so
S1: slow to respond? Yeah.
S2: You know, for those of us who like something done instantly,
S2: this has been a real wait. But we need to
S2: put the time in perspective. Remember way back when Saddam
S2: Hussein invaded Kuwait back in August of 1990? It took
S2: five months for the US and our allies to get
S2: everything in place before we launched our operation to retake Kuwait.
S2: And it was a month after 911, before the US
S2: began its airstrikes against Afghanistan and two months before the invasion.
S2: So in the larger scheme of things, three weeks isn't
S2: a very long time. And Israel has been busy. They've
S2: launched thousands of airstrikes to eliminate as many fighters, leaders
S2: and supply stores as possible before starting their ground offensive.
S2: They want to make sure they don't walk into a trap.
S2: Hamas knew Israel would respond to their attack, and they
S2: hoped to lure Israel into a battle in narrow streets,
S2: alleyways and tunnels that would favor the defenders. Israel needed
S2: to develop a plan that would allow them to surprise Hamas,
S2: at least to some extent, and all those logistical details
S2: take time. In addition, pressure was placed on Israel from
S2: the US to allow time to negotiate the release of hostages.
S2: It took time for Israel to mobilize 300,000 reservists and
S2: to prepare for a possible Hezbollah attack from the north. Apparently,
S2: the US also encouraged Israel to wait until American assets,
S2: including both aircraft carriers, were in place should the fight
S2: escalate to include Hezbollah. So it might seem like Israel's
S2: taking a long time, but that's because we don't see
S2: everything being done.
S1: You know, having mentioned Hezbollah, it appears the conflict between
S1: Israel and Hamas has already begun expanding into the surrounding region.
S1: What do we know thus far about the response to
S1: the conflict by Hezbollah, both in Lebanon and Syria, as
S1: well as the response by the Houthis in Yemen and
S1: by the Iranians? Could this become a full blown regional war?
S2: Well, the short answer is that only God knows. On Wednesday,
S2: leaders from Hezbollah, Hamas and Islamic Jihad met in Beirut
S2: to plan the next steps of their war against Israel.
S2: Right now, Hezbollah has become involved, but just to a
S2: limited extent, they fired anti-tank guided missiles and mortars at
S2: Israel positions along the Lebanese border. And they've also sent
S2: drones across the border into Israel and a few troops.
S2: But they've refrained from unleashing their arsenal of rockets on
S2: Israel because that would lead to a full scale Israeli response.
S2: It would also likely bring the US into the conflict.
S2: So will Hezbollah continue to sit on the sideline, or
S2: will they gamble on surviving a large scale retaliatory attack?
S2: And frankly, no one knows. However, we do know that
S2: if they attack, Israel will try to destroy their arsenal
S2: of rockets and it will be hard for Hezbollah to rearm.
S2: Lebanon is an economic basket case, and even Iran is
S2: struggling financially. Iran would like to bring in more arms
S2: to Syria. Hezbollah could then launch attacks from there against Israel,
S2: while not officially claiming responsibility. But Israel has been bombing
S2: the major airports in Syria to keep Iranian cargo planes
S2: from landing, and that's likely to continue. The Houthis in
S2: Yemen have fired missiles and drones against Israel, but they
S2: were intercepted, shot down by a US warship off Yemen's coast. Now,
S2: if these countries use a limited response as a fig
S2: leaf to say they've offered assistance to Hamas. Then the
S2: war likely won't expand. But if they increase their attacks
S2: on Israel, then there is a great possibility the conflict
S2: will spiral up. Iran needs to be careful in calculating
S2: its level of involvement, because the US does have the
S2: ability to attack and destroy their underground nuclear facilities. So far,
S2: it looks like Hezbollah, Yemen and Iran are being cautious.
S2: And that's good. But frankly, John, we don't know what
S2: tomorrow holds.
S1: So if we were to stand on Har Bentall, a
S1: site that many tourists from America visit in the north
S1: of Israel, what would we see, if anything right now?
S2: Actually, you would see a lot more military hardware positioned
S2: there and not just sitting idly along the road, but
S2: facing toward Syria. You would see probably planes and rockets
S2: and other drones going across the border. Israel's patrolling that
S2: border into Syria from Harbin, but just across the other
S2: side of Mount Hermon. There's even more activity as Israel
S2: actively watches what Hezbollah is doing in Lebanon itself.
S1: You're listening to the land in the book from Moody Radio,
S1: our host, Dr. Charlie Dyer, noted Middle East expert, I'm
S1: John Geiger. Story number three. As Israel sifts through the
S1: wreckage of the communities along its border with Gaza, they're
S1: also discovering additional details about the Hamas terrorists who launched
S1: the attack. I'm reading things about body cameras and so on. Charlie,
S1: what have they learned?
S2: Well, a number of things, none of which are good.
S2: They discovered that the Hamas terrorists were using a synthetic
S2: amphetamine called Kapton. The drug was found in the pockets
S2: of many of those who were killed. This is the
S2: same drug that was used by ISIS fighters during their rampage.
S2: It's highly addictive and it suppresses fear. It can also
S2: produce psychotic reactions. It allows individuals to remain on alert
S2: while suppressing their appetite. Israel also found those videos you mentioned,
S2: including from GoPro cameras that were taken by the terrorists themselves,
S2: showing their savagery as they rampaged across the border. Some
S2: victims were shot, while others were tied together with wire
S2: and then set on fire. Much of the video that's
S2: been recovered is too graphic and gruesome to even be seen,
S2: but the clips that are available show the absolute viciousness
S2: and cruelty of the attack. Israel also recovered detailed attack
S2: plans from several dead terrorists, which revealed the meticulous planning
S2: for the attack. This wasn't a spontaneous riot. It was
S2: planned down to the smallest detail, with the goal of
S2: killing or capturing as many civilians as possible. And perhaps
S2: most troubling of all, Israel found plans for producing chemical weapons.
S2: The information, originally from ISIS, was on a USB drive
S2: and provided instructions on how to produce cyanide based weapons,
S2: especially for use against civilians. Putting all that information together
S2: shows Hamas patterning itself after ISIS in terms of its
S2: determination to use the most horrific means possible to torture
S2: and kill Jews. The plan to use chemical weapons harkens
S2: back to the worst of Nazi Germany. While the discovery
S2: of captive gone ISIS flags and other methods of torture
S2: are reminiscent of the horrors of ISIS. And John, it's
S2: understanding all of this that helps us see why Israel
S2: is so determined to wipe out Hamas.
S1: Now, how much of this newer information, this cache of
S1: data that's been recovered, the video footage is being channeled
S1: to the media. How much of this is going to
S1: see the light of day by average folks like us?
S2: Hopefully less of it will be seen by average folks.
S2: I've watched some of it. It is incredibly disturbing. Israel
S2: is releasing far more than they've done in the past.
S2: In the past, they really were trying to protect the
S2: the individuals who are the victims. This time they realize
S2: they're fighting on two fronts. And one of those fronts
S2: is the media front. And so they're releasing this because
S2: even this week, people in leadership positions in the Arab
S2: world were saying it wasn't a major attack. It wasn't
S2: what Israel says. Israel is using the video itself to
S2: tell their side of the story as well.
S1: They should. Over the past week, a dozen Palestinian Christian
S1: organizations published an open letter accusing church leaders in the
S1: West of being complicit with Israel in their crimes against
S1: the Palestinians. What are their major issues, and how should
S1: those of us here in the West respond?
S2: Well, these Palestinian Christian leaders say they're extremely troubled over
S2: the Western Church's uncritical support for Israel through its timing.
S2: The focus of the criticism is on our supposedly uncritical
S2: support for Israel's attack against Gaza happening right now. But
S2: they also accused the Western Church of supporting what they
S2: see as the real root cause of the current conflict.
S2: They call it, quote, the ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine
S2: and the oppressive and racist military occupation that constitutes the
S2: crime of apartheid. So how should we respond? Well, we
S2: need to start with the basic facts. Israel has a
S2: right to be in the land. It's a right guaranteed
S2: and grounded in God's unconditional promises to Abraham in Genesis
S2: 12 and Genesis 15 and repeated throughout the Old Testament.
S2: That doesn't mean everything Israel does is right, because no
S2: nation is perfect. But historically, it was the Arabs who
S2: rejected the original two state solution proposed by the UN
S2: in 1947. It was the Arabs who tried to push
S2: the Jews into the sea in 1967, causing the loss
S2: of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Sinai and Golan Heights,
S2: and after the war Israel offered to trade land for peace.
S2: But it was the Arabs who issued their famous three
S2: no's no peace with Israel, no negotiation with Israel, no
S2: recognition of Israel. Under Sadat, Egypt made peace with Israel
S2: in 1979, but he was murdered for his decision. Now
S2: here's the bottom line. As Christians who believe the Bible,
S2: we believe Israel has a right to live in land
S2: promised to them by God in peace. The Palestinians who
S2: framed this open letter choose not to believe what the
S2: Bible says about Israel. Countries have the right of self-defense
S2: and Israel is no exception. And as believers, we need
S2: to be willing to stand up for what's right. And
S2: that includes supporting Israel right now.
S1: And that's a look at current events here on the land.
S1: And the book we're coming up. It's a conversation with
S1: Erez Saurav about using digital tools for Middle East outreach.
S1: This is really good news for a change here on
S1: the land and the book. Digital media. You hear about
S1: it all the time and digital media is just getting started.
S1: But just what is it and how can Christians harness
S1: digital media for sharing the gospel? This is the land
S1: in the book. I'm John Yeager, honored to be back
S1: in the land for today's conversation. We're in the north
S1: of Israel, where we've connected with a favorite friend, Dr.
S1: Aris Saraf. He serves as president of one for Israel.
S1: He's been a part of many of our moody radio
S1: specials in the past. And you've heard him before here
S1: on the land in the book. So welcome back to
S1: the program.
S3: Dr. Saurav Shalom, John, great to be with you.
S1: Well, for somebody who is less familiar when we use
S1: the term digital media, what exactly are we talking about?
S3: So really it's about using media. So videos, radio mainly
S3: over social networks of course television as well. But the
S3: production is digital and the dissemination is digital as well.
S3: So that's really what the term means as.
S1: Opposed to over a broadcast network so to speak.
S3: That's right. Or written material or other things like that. Yeah.
S1: Well explain the connection of one for Israel with a
S1: strategy to use digital content to reach unbelievers. And maybe
S1: before that, even just a quick overview of one for Israel.
S3: So we are a ministry of native born Israelis. Most
S3: of us are first generation believers in Jesus. We get
S3: up in the morning to share the message of the
S3: gospel with Jewish people and Arab people in the land
S3: of Israel. We also operate the only accredited Bible college
S3: and seminary in the land. So we are privileged to
S3: serve the entire church in the country. You know, people
S3: that has come from all over the world and reside
S3: in Israel.
S1: Okay, now, you know, I'm stopped right there. I've heard
S1: you talk about it being accredited. And yet, in the
S1: same breath, you know, we hear about laws being considered
S1: that would make, you know, sharing your faith illegal or
S1: a whole lot more difficult. So why would they allow
S1: the accrediting of of your school, Israel.
S3: It's important to understand that Israel is a democracy with
S3: freedom of speech and freedom of religion. And therefore all
S3: of our activity, both evangelistic and the educational, is 100% legal.
S3: And we do everything on the highest standard so far.
S3: There have been several lawsuits going on against us, but
S3: we have so far always been able to win because
S3: we're doing everything above par and try to do it
S3: at the highest level.
S1: All right. So talk about how you guys are using
S1: digital media as a strategy to reach unbelievers.
S3: So when we were renovating our new campus that we
S3: moved in, it was new at the time, about 15
S3: years ago, there was a very strong impression on my
S3: heart to create television studios, which I knew absolutely nothing about.
S3: But we did. And then kind of in the following years,
S3: we've begun to create content through short videos, first of testimonials,
S3: and later on as what we would call apologetics, Jewish apologetics,
S3: talking about how as a Jewish person, you come to
S3: believe in Yeshua, in Jesus created tremendous traction far beyond
S3: what we've ever imagined. And so just to give you
S3: an idea of what I'm talking about. So in the
S3: last few years, you know, in a land of Israel
S3: as a country of 9.5 million people, of them 8
S3: million Jews that speak Hebrew, so out of 8 million
S3: are videos in the last few years alone have been
S3: viewed more than 62 million times. This is in Hebrew only. Wow.
S3: So it's like five times the number of Jews in
S3: the land. So just tremendous exposure for the gospel.
S1: Well, I ask, how would non believers even stumble onto
S1: any of your content? How would they discover you? They're
S1: not looking for you.
S3: So a lot of young people today, I mean, you're
S3: just browsing through YouTube and Instagram and other social networks
S3: and there's everything there, including our material, and we try
S3: to make it excellent. So people want to come back
S3: and repeatedly people over and over and over tell us
S3: how they started watching one of our videos. And then
S3: they watch another one, another one, another one is that, well,
S3: we stayed up all night. We watched, you know, stories
S3: of people and then apologetics and explanations and Bible expositions.
S3: And so, you know, we had just as an example,
S3: one young lady that has become a disciple of Jesus,
S3: probably 2 or 3 years ago, she told me that
S3: when she and her girlfriends, when they were in the military,
S3: whenever they would have a break, they would start, you know,
S3: just watching different things on YouTube and they would watch
S3: our videos. Now, they were not believers and they didn't
S3: particularly like it. But later on, when she became a
S3: follower of Jesus, said, hey, I remember those guys. I
S3: used to watch their videos. So, you know, it's part
S3: of what young people consume.
S1: That's Dr. Aris Saraf, who's president of one for Israel,
S1: a ministry that's reaching out. With the gospel. Using digital media.
S1: Is most of your content more like a creative graphic,
S1: or is it an online advertisement, something we might find
S1: in a paper or magazine? Just digital? Or is it
S1: more video oriented?
S3: It's definitely video oriented. Particularly in the last seven years.
S3: It's almost 100% video oriented. Small part of it is animation.
S3: Most of it is actual people talking or speaking or
S3: whatever it is. And yeah.
S1: How do you go about choosing topics to explore?
S3: As I mentioned, initially we did testimonials like five seven minutes,
S3: kind of like I am second type, but in Hebrew,
S3: great traction. And then we started getting tons and tons
S3: and tons of questions, which we treated like a funnel,
S3: and we kind of distilled it at the end to
S3: about 50 questions that are most commonly asked. And then
S3: we began to answer those questions. We did it initially
S3: in text, and that's where it was very helpful to
S3: have professors that know, because some of the questions were
S3: actually pretty sophisticated, like, how come Jesus has two genealogies,
S3: you know, the one in Matthew and the one in Luke?
S3: And what's the connection between them? So we've kind of
S3: gathered the information, and then we created a script out
S3: of it and explained it. So we did. That was
S3: one of our initial series in apologetics, and it kind
S3: of went on from there. And, you know, even now
S3: people are writing us with different questions. And so we
S3: produce videos to answer those questions.
S1: Very, very cool. And the videos are great. I do
S1: know there are groups in Israel who are not just opposed,
S1: but extremely opposed to your message. What kind of pushback
S1: have you received from, say, the ultra-Orthodox community?
S3: So some in the Orthodox community think that we as
S3: Jewish people that believe in Jesus are the worst traitors
S3: and that they compare us to the Nazis. We say
S3: we're actually worse than the Nazis, because if the Nazis
S3: tried to destroy our physical existence, we try to destroy
S3: the spiritual existence, which of course is very painful and
S3: distorted to say this, but there is a tremendous amount
S3: of blindness regarding Yeshua Jesus, who he really is, partially
S3: because there's a very painful church history. So through the
S3: history of the church, unfortunately, many, many times, particularly the
S3: Catholic Church, but not only the Catholic Church have said
S3: and done terrible atrocities against the Jewish people. So in
S3: the minds of a lot of Jewish people, that's Jesus. Yes.
S3: Those terrible things that have happened. And part of what
S3: we do is to demonstrate to them that it's not.
S3: And very important for me to state, even though we
S3: are very high on the watch list and every event
S3: we do, we have the they call themselves anti missionaries.
S3: They are not our enemies, they are people. We pray
S3: for them. You know when they come to demonstrate against
S3: us and the sun is hot, we take water and
S3: cookies out to them. We pray for them and we
S3: ask you to pray for them as well.
S1: So is it easier for a secular Jew to watch
S1: what you're creating or do you connect better with people
S1: who are maybe nominally religious as Jewish people, you know,
S1: what's the breakdown there?
S3: So it's really across the board. You know, on the
S3: one hand, if we talk to someone who comes from
S3: a religious background, it's easier because they already believe in God.
S3: So you start there and then they have some at
S3: least cursory knowledge of the Hebrew Bible. So that's that's
S3: a great starting point to talk about Jesus from the
S3: Hebrew Bible. But they also have probably a lot of
S3: negative kind of feelings. If the person is more secular,
S3: then usually we have to start. Is there a God?
S3: Why do you believe there is even a God? And
S3: then from there go to the Bible. So why do
S3: you believe the Bible is the Word of God? And
S3: from there to talk about who Yeshua, who Jesus is.
S3: So just a little bit of different paths and each
S3: side has their own challenges. And yeah.
S1: It's a conversation about using digital media today in Israel
S1: with Dr. Erez Saraf, who's president of one for Israel.
S1: What kinds of things do you hear from Muslims, if
S1: at all?
S3: Oh, yeah. Oh, so we have over the years in
S3: our seminary, we started having more and more and more
S3: of our Arab brothers and sisters coming to study with us.
S3: As I mentioned, there is about a million and a
S3: half Arab people in Israel. Most of them are over 90%
S3: are Muslim, and some of them came to know the Lord.
S3: They came to study with us. Some of them have
S3: a great passion to share the gospel with other Arab
S3: people in Israel and the Middle East. And so we
S3: began a branch of our digital outreach, also in Arabic.
S3: And that is, we've received tremendous responses from across the
S3: Middle East, from the Palestinian areas to literally every country
S3: in the Middle East. I would say the reactions are
S3: probably about a third are threats and curses and death
S3: threats and so on towards our team members. And about
S3: two thirds are actually. Very, very positive. There are a
S3: lot of Muslims that are very open to the gospel,
S3: and we have seen positive response and many people coming
S3: to know the Lord.
S1: What about reactions, if any, from the government?
S3: Everything that we do is 100% legal, so we really
S3: don't have any hardships or any difficulties from the government.
S3: And you know, everything that we do is, as I mentioned,
S3: we try to do it above par and the best
S3: way possible. So overall, we don't really have any issues
S3: with the government.
S1: Do you anticipate a time in the future when the
S1: government or other groups might successfully shut down or significantly
S1: impair your ability to share digital media?
S3: It's definitely possible. And you may be aware that a
S3: couple of months ago, there was a bill put on
S3: our Parliament's table calling for a kind of a making
S3: the proclamation of the gospel any sort of proclamation like
S3: you and I talk and I tell you about Jesus
S3: illegal and I'm almost immediately liable for three year imprisonment.
S3: So the bill has put out and we did a
S3: video about this call to prayer. And other media outlets
S3: did that. It got to Christian media in the US,
S3: eventually got to media over here that the general media
S3: and finally after probably about 24 hours, 36 hours, our
S3: Prime Minister, Mr. Benjamin Netanyahu, announced or tweeted in his
S3: Twitter account that we're not going to change the status
S3: quo to our Christian friends. Quote. And then the guy
S3: that actually initiated the bill tweeted in Hebrew, we're taking
S3: the bill off the table for now. Now, this was
S3: in Hebrew. It wasn't in English. So it's clear that
S3: the lines are drawn. And, you know, we trust the
S3: Lord and try to do our best to use the
S3: freedom we have.
S1: Anyway to encapsulate results, any kind of numbers, any kind of,
S1: you know, views versus conversations that you've had with counselors
S1: or phone calls. What kind of numbers do you have?
S3: Because we began our digital media outreach before Covid. When
S3: Covid hit, everybody were home watching videos and so on,
S3: and our viewership has just jumped through the roof. I
S3: think also the fact that there was a pandemic and
S3: proximity to death, existential kind of thoughts, tremendous positive interest
S3: this year. I mean, just to give you real numbers
S3: for now, so true to the first third of 2023,
S3: our Hebrew language videos only in Hebrew have been viewed
S3: more than 6.3 million times this in four months. So
S3: just tremendous interest. This is this is more than everything
S3: happening last year. So tremendous positive response.
S1: What do you see trending in the future by way
S1: of digital media, and how will you try to harness that?
S3: I think personal stories, engaging personal stories are always of interest.
S3: I think animation is something that a lot of young
S3: people like. So we started doing more projects like that,
S3: as well as more of a kind of a talk show,
S3: a conversation type thing that has deeper biblical content. That's
S3: kind of the direction.
S1: And how can land in the book. Listeners pray for
S1: this ministry specifically.
S3: Yeah. So please be praying that many people in the
S3: land of Israel and around the Middle East will not
S3: only watch those videos, but truly commit their lives to
S3: the Messiah. Our goal is always to connect to those people,
S3: to local churches, congregations, where they can actually meet physically
S3: with a believer, either us if they're in our area
S3: or others. And yeah, pray that those meetings will take
S3: place and many young believers will continue to pour into
S3: our congregations and churches. Please be praying for the national
S3: Body of Christ, Body of Messiah here in Israel, with
S3: this tremendous growth that we were experiencing in the last
S3: few years. Obviously, leadership development is a challenge. And, you know,
S3: the place of our seminary as well as just general
S3: things that are happening. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
S1: Dr. Aras Saurav is with one for Israel talking about
S1: digital media content. We encourage you to check it out
S1: at their website, which is.
S3: One for israel.org and.
S1: A link to that website at ours. The land and
S1: the book. Org. Looking forward to hearing Charli's answers to
S1: your questions. That's coming up next here on the land
S1: and the book. Great to have you listening to The
S1: Land in the book from Moody Radio, I'm John Geiger.
S1: This is segment two. Our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, has
S1: his Bible open. Not one hint of perspiration on his forehead, though,
S1: as he pours over the stacks of questions that have
S1: come in via email. And we'll share how you can
S1: get your question to us in just a couple of
S1: minutes here. First, though, a quick thought. Many of us
S1: wonder what the future holds for Israel. While some things
S1: are uncertain, the Bible gives us an outline of what
S1: will happen in the last days.
S2: And that's why our friends at Life in Messiah recently
S2: hosted a prophecy conference. Focus specifically on this topic Israel
S2: and the church living in the last days. They're now
S2: making the videos of the conference available for early access
S2: exclusively to the land. In the book listeners, you'll hear
S2: from many knowledgeable speakers on this topic, including Moody Radio
S2: host Michael Rudnick and me, Charlie Dyer. These encouraging and
S2: informative videos will help you better understand God's future plans
S2: and how we can be actively waiting to get access
S2: to this video series. Visit Life in Messiah org and
S2: click on the Moody Radio button to sign up. That's
S2: Life in messiah.org.
S1: All right, let's get to today's first question from Carol.
S1: She says, I've just finished reading Jeremiah 51, speaking of
S1: the destruction of Babylon in its totality. Growing up in
S1: the 60s, I heard that Babylon is deserted now and
S1: that this is the fulfillment of that prophecy. But if
S1: that's the case, why is Babylon so clearly mentioned in revelation?
S1: The reference in Jeremiah to being desolate forever doesn't seem
S1: to fit your thoughts. Yeah.
S2: And actually this is like saying sick them to a dog,
S2: as they would say. I did my master's thesis on
S2: the identity of Babylon in the Bible in Revelation 17
S2: and 18. So I actually need to work here to
S2: keep my answer short and to the point. But chronologically
S2: I start with the prediction of Babylon's fall not only
S2: in Jeremiah but a century earlier in Isaiah 13 and 14.
S2: Syria was the major power then. And yet Isaiah begins
S2: his list of nations to be judged by saying, God's
S2: going to judge Babylon. And he says it'll be judged
S2: in the day of the Lord. He describes it as
S2: a time when there will be supernatural signs in the heavens,
S2: when God will punish the world for its evil. And
S2: when it's over, he says, Babylon will be like Sodom
S2: and Gomorrah. And he connects Babylon's fall with God's restoration
S2: of Israel. Now, Jeremiah came along a century later, and
S2: in Jeremiah 50 and 51 he says basically the same thing. Babylon,
S2: he says, is going to be plundered, the walls torn down,
S2: the people destroyed. Only those who flee from the city
S2: will have their lives spared, which is interesting, since Daniel
S2: had a copy of the book of Jeremiah, and Daniel
S2: was there when it fell, and he didn't flee, so
S2: he didn't think that was the fulfillment either. And then
S2: you get to revelation 17 and 18, and John borrows
S2: from both of those other prophets and describes a future
S2: destruction of Babylon just prior to Christ's return to earth.
S2: And I believe all three passages are describing a still
S2: future destruction of Babylon that'll take place just before Christ
S2: returns to earth and will happen just exactly the way
S2: God said it will be destroyed.
S1: All right, another question geared toward the future. This one
S1: based in revelation one, verse 18, What is Hades? And
S1: is it the same as hell.
S2: In the Bible? Hades was the place of the departed dead.
S2: In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus in
S2: Luke 16, Jesus pictured Hades as the place of torment
S2: where the rich man found himself after dying in the
S2: Book of Revelation in that chapter one, verse 18. Actually
S2: it occurs four times in revelation that words death and
S2: Hades come together by saying Jesus had the keys to
S2: death in Hades. In chapter one, verse 18, I think
S2: John's picturing Jesus's authority, his control over life and death,
S2: including the reward of eternal life to the righteous and
S2: the eternal punishment given to those whose names aren't in
S2: the Lamb's Book of Life. But that's not the ultimate
S2: destiny of it all. The final destiny of the wicked
S2: isn't Hell or Hades, but it's actually the lake of fire.
S2: Revelation chapter 20, verses 14 and 15. The Lake of
S2: Fire was originally prepared for the devil and his angels
S2: following their rebellion, but apparently it's also going to be
S2: the final destination of all the wicked, and Hades itself
S2: gives up its dead to appear before Jesus at the
S2: Great White Throne, before the wicked are then cast into
S2: the lake of fire. That's where they spend eternity.
S1: Todd shifts us back to the Old Testament with a
S1: question based in Second Chronicles 16. Why was it wrong
S1: for Asa to seek help from Ben Hadad, but not
S1: from the physicians? Could he have sought rightly the help
S1: of Ben Hadad and the Lord, and the help of
S1: the physicians and the Lord? If not, what was the difference?
S2: Yeah, well, the Bible does picture both actions that Asa
S2: did as being failures on his part. Now he's characterized
S2: as a king who did what was good and right
S2: in the eyes of the Lord. So he's one of
S2: the good guys in the line of David. But Second
S2: Chronicles 16 is unflinching in letting us know that this
S2: otherwise good king didn't finish well. In appealing to the
S2: King of Syria, he was asking for help from a
S2: king and a country that were opposed to the God
S2: of Israel, and he paid for that help using it,
S2: says the silver and gold out of the treasuries of
S2: the Lord's temple and of his own palace. In essence,
S2: Asa robbed God to pay a pagan king rather than
S2: trusting in the. The Lord to deliver him. That's the
S2: opposite of what he had done when he was attacked
S2: by an army from south of Egypt early in his reign. Now,
S2: after seeking the king of Syria's help, God sent a
S2: prophet to him to rebuke him. He said, because you
S2: relied on the king of Aram and not on the
S2: Lord your God, you've done a foolish thing, and from
S2: now on you'll be at war. Now the other part,
S2: in seeking the help of doctors for his diseased feet,
S2: rather than relying on the Lord. Asa was also demonstrating
S2: a lack of faith at the end of his reign. Again,
S2: Second Chronicles makes it clear in verse 12 of chapter
S2: 16 it says. Though the disease was severe, even in
S2: his illness, he did not seek help from the Lord,
S2: but only from the physicians. What the passage is suggesting
S2: is that the disease was part of God's chastising him
S2: for his ungodly actions toward the end of his life,
S2: and instead of repenting and turning back to the Lord,
S2: he sought the help of physicians to solve a problem that,
S2: at its core, was spiritual rather than physical. Now, that
S2: incident reminds me of wise words a seminary professor once
S2: told me in class. He said, many start well, but
S2: few end well. Ace is an example of a king
S2: who started well and who did well most of his reign,
S2: but who ended poorly. And I see a lesson in
S2: that for all of us.
S1: Oh boy, for sure. That one sends shivers down your spine.
S1: I'm also reminded of a quote from Bob Mueller, who
S1: one time said to me, you know, John, most of
S1: the great men of the Bible who failed, failed in
S1: the second half of life. All right, let's get to
S1: Lenny's question. She takes us to act six, verse five
S1: and acts 21, verse eight. Philip is one of the
S1: seven who was chosen to serve. Is he the same
S1: Philip who was one of the original disciples?
S2: And the short answer? No. And I say that because
S2: in Luke chapter six, Philip was one of the original
S2: 12 disciples whom Jesus appointed as apostles. And then when
S2: I get in the book of Acts and Acts, chapter six,
S2: it says the 12 which is referring back to those apostles,
S2: told the people to appoint seven to serve. Now, since Philip,
S2: the original disciple, was one of the apostles, he was
S2: one of those saying, okay, you need to find seven
S2: people to serve. And then it just happens that one
S2: of the seven they pick is also has the name Philip,
S2: but he's actually probably a Hellenistic Jew who was picked
S2: because the dispute next six was between Hellenistic Jews and
S2: Hebrew speaking Jews. So two Philip's and they're not the
S2: same person.
S1: Dr. Charlie Dyer is answering questions on this third segment
S1: of the broadcast today. Yours is welcome if you'll send
S1: us an email at the Land and the book at Moody. Edu. Charlie,
S1: what do the scriptures say about Paradise and about the
S1: three heavens? One listener wants to know. Yeah.
S2: The first of the three heavens the Bible talks about
S2: is considered the atmosphere. In Genesis chapter one, God said
S2: the birds were going to fly in the open expanse
S2: of the heavens. So it's where the birds are. It's
S2: where the clouds are. The second of the three heavens
S2: is the cosmos, the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets.
S2: Again in Genesis chapter one, God talked about them as
S2: the lights in the expanse of the heavens. And then
S2: Psalm 19, David described the sun and the stars picturing
S2: day and night. And he said, those are the heavens
S2: that are telling of the glory of God. So that's
S2: the second of the heavens. The third heaven is the
S2: abode of God himself. And Paul talks about being caught
S2: up to the third heaven in Second Corinthians 12. Now
S2: Paradise asking about that is connected with the third heaven again.
S2: Also in second Corinthians 12, having described being caught up
S2: to the third heaven in verse two, Paul then said
S2: in verse four that he was caught up into Paradise.
S2: So Paradise is part of the third heaven, and that's
S2: the abode of God.
S1: All right. Here's a question from John. He says, I'm
S1: trying to encourage my grandkids to build a strong spiritual foundation.
S1: They're all voracious readers, and they read it fairly advanced levels.
S1: The question what ten books, fiction or nonfiction would you
S1: most recommend teens and preteens read to establish and fortify
S1: their faith? Well, here's.
S2: Ten books, and there are no particular order. But the
S2: first one I have on my list is The Hiding
S2: Place by Cory Tenenbaum. The second mission possible? It's written
S2: by Tim Tebow. The third was Confronting Christianity. It's 12
S2: Hard Questions for the World's Largest Religion by Rebecca McLaughlin.
S2: There's also a young edition of that one, so you
S2: have to look at both of those. Fourth Mere Christianity
S2: by C.S Lewis the fifth, Don't Waste Your Life by
S2: John Piper, then another one by CS Lewis, The Screwtape
S2: Letters next, The case for Christ by Lee Strobel. There's
S2: also a student edition of that one, The Next Pilgrim's
S2: Progress by John Bunyan, and then Courageous Christians Living in
S2: Frightening Times by Tom Doyle, whom we've had on our program.
S2: And then last but certainly not least, through Gates of
S2: Splendor by Elizabeth Elliott.
S1: One last question from a guy named Charlie who takes
S1: us to Romans 11, verse 25, which says, blindness in
S1: part has happened to Israel. Is this national or individual
S1: blindness or both?
S2: Yeah. Well, Paul's primarily looking at the Jewish people as
S2: a group there as a whole. And I say that
S2: because in the very next verse he says, and so
S2: all Israel will be saved, and he connects it to
S2: what God's going to do following the completion of his
S2: program for the Gentiles in the current age. Now Paul
S2: focuses on the. Fact that God hasn't totally rejected the
S2: Jewish people in this section. He does that by including
S2: himself and others who are part of the believing Jewish
S2: remnant as an example. So a partial hardening has come
S2: on the Jewish nation as a whole. But even then,
S2: God is still preserving a believing remnant.
S1: A great set of questions today. Thank you for writing
S1: and for sharing your question. If you'd like to get
S1: one to us, email us at The Land and the
S1: Book at Moody Edu. I'm looking forward to Charlie Dyer's devotional.
S1: It's next right here. Welcome back to the land in
S1: the book from Moody Radio, I'm John Geiger, and I
S1: suppose when you go to Israel, everybody has their own
S1: favorite spots. One of my favorites happens to be the
S1: subject of your devotional coming up, Charlie, where are we headed?
S2: We're heading to the Herodium.
S1: Yeah. And that place really has evolved over the years.
S1: They have done a remarkable job of restoring and opening
S1: that place up to us. We're going to get to
S1: that devotional after we hear this Holy Land experience, a
S1: testimony from somebody who is also been to the Holy
S1: Land and wanted to share what was important to them.
S4: Hi, my name is Marie from Vermont, and I'm calling
S4: because I've been to Israel and I just wanted to
S4: make the comment that the Holy Land is most amazing.
S4: But I think one of the things that struck me
S4: the most is when we went to pray at the
S4: Wailing Wall, and it is so remarkable. There's been so
S4: many prayers over the years and the ages at the
S4: Wailing Wall that you can actually feel the presence of God.
S4: So it was a wonderful trip that was there were
S4: just so amazing things. And I would encourage anyone to
S4: take this trip and that's it.
S1: We're continuing our Aha series of devotions with our host, Dr.
S1: Charlie Dyer. I'm looking forward to what you have to
S1: say about the Herodium, Charlie.
S2: Thanks, John. This is a great way to end that
S2: four week series of my aha moments from the early
S2: trips I did to Israel, because we're going to be
S2: hiking up to the Herodium, a few miles southeast of Bethlehem.
S2: I don't ever recall hearing about the Herodium before my
S2: first trip to Israel. It's never mentioned in the Bible,
S2: and at least back then, it wasn't a major tourist site.
S2: Getting to it involved driving on some secondary roads that
S2: twisted their way through the West Bank. Preliminary excavations at
S2: the Herodium began when the site was under Jordanian control
S2: in the early 1960s. Following the Six Day War in 1967,
S2: work resumed by Israeli archaeologists, and then in 1972, a
S2: long term project began with Professor Ehud Netzer from Hebrew University.
S2: By the time I arrived in the early 1980s, the
S2: site was open to visitors, and it was worth the visit.
S2: But why does it make my list of aha sites? Well,
S2: for one thing, it was totally unexpected. I remember driving
S2: near Bethlehem and looking out toward the Judean wilderness and
S2: seeing what looked like a volcano rising in the distance.
S2: It just seemed so out of place, but in a
S2: good sense, it looked imposing. Another reason I found it
S2: so fascinating was its name, the Herodium. It was built
S2: by and named after King Herod the Great, who ruled
S2: at the time of Jesus's birth. Herod built many cities
S2: and palaces throughout the land. Caesarea along the coast, Samaria,
S2: which he renamed Sebastiano, Masada, Macarius and Jordan, a palace
S2: in Jerusalem, another palace in Jericho, just to name a few.
S2: But the one spot he chose to name after himself
S2: was this palace fortress. Why? What made the Herodium so
S2: special to King Herod? Josephus helps fill in those details.
S2: Early in his reign, Herod was forced to flee Jerusalem.
S2: His enemies pursued and caught up with him at the
S2: spot where he would later build this palace. To add
S2: to his troubles, a wagon carrying his mother turned over
S2: and he thought she was dead. Herod drew his sword
S2: and was about to take his own life, when his
S2: friend shouted at him to stop reading between the flowery
S2: lines of Josephus. It seems these companions shamed him into
S2: not committing suicide, because it would leave all of them
S2: at the mercy of the attackers. A light switch went
S2: off in Herod's mind, and he became, to quote Josephus,
S2: not like one who was in distress, but like one
S2: who was exceedingly prepared for war. Herod led a charge
S2: against his pursuers, throwing them off balance and allowing his
S2: entourage time to get away. Herod never forgot the spot,
S2: and after he returned to secure his throne, he built
S2: this special palace fortress and named it after himself. In fact,
S2: at the end of his life, Herod gave orders to
S2: be buried at the Herodium. For years, Ehud Netzer searched
S2: for Herod's tomb. He looked on top of the hill
S2: and in the ruins at the base of the hill,
S2: all in vain. It wasn't until a few years ago
S2: he realized that he had underestimated Herod. Herod wasn't just
S2: buried somewhere near or even in the Herodium. The entire
S2: hill was his personal pyramid, serving as a burial monument.
S2: Partway up the hill, Herod buried a theater and constructed
S2: next to it a mausoleum rising from the side of
S2: the hill. People could see his monument from Jerusalem eight
S2: miles away. During my first visit to the Herodium, I
S2: was impressed by the sight. Walking up to the top
S2: of the hill, I discovered the top half was artificial.
S2: Inside was Herod's palace, ringed by four guard towers. The
S2: palace had an open courtyard, a trickling or banquet hall,
S2: a complete Roman baths complex, and his own personal apartment. Then,
S2: under these ruins, carved into the hill below, were a
S2: series of cisterns to hold the water needed in the palace.
S2: But where did this water come from? There weren't any
S2: springs nearby, and no problem. Herod had a massive pool
S2: built at the base of the hill, with an aqueduct
S2: to carry in water from below Bethlehem, but I've still
S2: not shared my aha moment that came on top as
S2: we took in the view from the summit to the
S2: south was the Arab village of Tekoa, preserving its original
S2: Hebrew name, Toccoa, the hometown of Amos the prophet. To
S2: the southeast we could see the Judean wilderness all the
S2: way to the Dead Sea, but the greatest view was
S2: to the west and northwest. Bethlehem, no longer a small village,
S2: was several miles to the west, and we could trace
S2: the ridgeline from there all the way up to Jerusalem.
S2: The three towers on the Mount of Olives stood out
S2: like sentinels guarding the city just on the other side.
S2: This was the perfect location to explore the references to
S2: Herod the Great found in the Bible in Matthew two.
S2: In that one scene, shortly after Christ's birth, we have
S2: a king who changed the face of this country, walking
S2: onto the pages of the Bible along with the wise men,
S2: the angel, and of course, Joseph, Mary and Jesus. I
S2: could stand here and imagine the entire event to the northeast.
S2: We can envision the wise men riding up to Jerusalem
S2: from Jericho. Asking the question, where is he? Who's been
S2: born King of the Jews? Jerusalem is in an uproar,
S2: as Herod asked the priests and scribes, where this child,
S2: seen by Herod as a threat to his own rule,
S2: was to be born. When they tell him, Bethlehem. A
S2: shiver must have gone up Herod spine. Even though Bethlehem
S2: was small, Herod knew where it was located because he
S2: would pass by Bethlehem on his way to the Herodium.
S2: This threat was just five miles from Jerusalem. Herod sent
S2: the wise men in search of the child. It was
S2: only a two hour journey along the spiny ridge of
S2: the Judean Hills to reach Bethlehem. Herod likely sent them
S2: in the late afternoon, expecting them back that evening or
S2: perhaps the next morning. As darkness fell, the star or
S2: bright light they had seen before reappeared and guided them
S2: to the very house in Bethlehem where Joseph, Mary, and
S2: the child were living. They presented their gifts, and then
S2: decided to bed down for the night and return to
S2: Herod the next morning. But their sleep was interrupted by
S2: an angel warning them not to return to Herod, but
S2: to head home immediately by another way. How could they
S2: go back home? The one alternative available to them took
S2: them past the herodium on the road just below us,
S2: and then past Masada before they could cross the Dead
S2: Sea and be safe. That next day had to be
S2: one of high anxiety as these Magi passed beneath Herod's
S2: two fortresses, hoping that a fast messenger hadn't been sent
S2: from Jerusalem, warning them to watch and stop a caravan
S2: trying to scurry off to the east. But what about
S2: Joseph and Mary? That same night, an angel appeared to
S2: them and told them to escape to Egypt because Herod
S2: was looking for the child. As we watched the caravan
S2: of wise men picking their way along the road below us,
S2: we can also see out in the distance a young
S2: couple hurrying along the road atop the ridge leading south
S2: from Bethlehem toward Hebron. Somewhere along the way, they turned
S2: southwest toward Egypt. Now see all those other villages scattered
S2: around Bethlehem. To morrow they'll be filled with the cries
S2: of young families as Herod's brutal soldiers search out and
S2: kill any male child unable to talk. Children under two
S2: years of age. This is an amazing spot that makes
S2: the Christmas story come alive better than any Hollywood production.
S2: But as you get ready to hike down from the summit,
S2: what can you carry with you? To me, this is
S2: a great spot to remember what's truly significant in life.
S2: Herod could literally change the topography of the land to
S2: construct a palace. It represented the power of a king
S2: who could impose his will on a nation, and even
S2: on the landscape. But Herod died probably soon after his
S2: encounter with the wise men. His palace on this hill
S2: was eventually destroyed. His mausoleum was dismantled and buried. His
S2: sarcophagus was smashed to bits. This king by mite left
S2: this life the same way he came in with nothing
S2: in his hands. Herod the Great could build monuments to
S2: his greatness, but the child born in that little village
S2: in the distance changed the face of the entire world.
S2: He was and is the king by right, the one
S2: who will someday return as King of Kings and Lord
S2: of Lords. The Herodium is a good reminder that man's
S2: measure of what's truly great and God's measure are decidedly different.
S2: Make sure your decisions align with what God sees as significant.
S2: It will make an eternal difference in your life.
S1: And if you can't say with certainty that you have
S1: made Jesus the King of your life, the person in charge,
S1: why not clear this up today? A friend will be
S1: glad to pray with you right now at eight, eight, eight.
S1: Need him. 888 need him. Charlie loved this devotional series.
S1: Maybe you'd like to hear it again. You can do
S1: that at our website, the land and the book.org. Our
S1: time has gone. We want to thank you for being
S1: a part of the program. The land of the book
S1: is a production of Moody Radio, a ministry of Moody
S1: Bible Institute.