1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:05,800 S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. Come as 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:11,399 S1: you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems impossible and 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,360 S1: live as you never imagined. Start your morning with a laugh. 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:20,599 S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks, 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:26,239 S2: but tips and tricks. Tips and tricks to kill. Tips 6 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:26,880 S2: and tricks. 7 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:28,840 S1: Delivering the truth daily. 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,720 S3: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up 9 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,280 S3: with achievement in good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that. 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:36,720 S3: Even if other people were. 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,519 S2: The gospel changes everything. 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,760 S4: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement 13 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,680 S4: just falling to the ground. 14 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,160 S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl 15 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,400 S1: and crew. It is Carl and crew. And I got 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:54,760 S1: a question for my team here to kick off the 17 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:55,760 S1: top of this hour. 18 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:56,560 S4: Okay. Okay. 19 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,730 S1: Have you ever gone to Scripture looking for an out 20 00:00:59,770 --> 00:01:02,850 S1: on something. You were looking for an escape hatch. 21 00:01:03,690 --> 00:01:03,930 S4: A little. 22 00:01:03,970 --> 00:01:04,810 S2: Bit. Certainly. 23 00:01:05,650 --> 00:01:06,770 S1: We've all done it right. 24 00:01:07,010 --> 00:01:08,090 S2: Oh yeah. Absolutely. 25 00:01:08,090 --> 00:01:09,650 S1: Oh my goodness. 26 00:01:09,690 --> 00:01:10,169 S2: Oh, yeah. 27 00:01:10,330 --> 00:01:13,730 S1: So I gotta tell you about a pastoral, uh, course 28 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:16,649 S1: that I was in in Bible college. This is a 29 00:01:16,650 --> 00:01:19,770 S1: little bit sensitive here. If you got little ears listening. 30 00:01:19,770 --> 00:01:23,290 S1: Just be warned. I will not have any crazy words here, 31 00:01:23,290 --> 00:01:24,730 S1: but just. Yeah. 32 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:25,289 S4: Uh oh. 33 00:01:25,450 --> 00:01:27,729 S1: You might have some splaining to do, you know what 34 00:01:27,730 --> 00:01:28,890 S1: I mean? Mom or dad? 35 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:30,970 S3: Um, now I'm really interested. 36 00:01:31,290 --> 00:01:34,410 S1: So we're in this pastoral course, and we got this Prof. 37 00:01:34,410 --> 00:01:36,610 S1: Hugh Salisbury. I told you about him. The Silver fox 38 00:01:36,610 --> 00:01:37,810 S1: tennis playing dude. 39 00:01:37,850 --> 00:01:38,369 S4: Oh, yes. 40 00:01:38,410 --> 00:01:41,369 S1: Yes. Gave me the wise counsel. Never meet alone with 41 00:01:41,370 --> 00:01:44,209 S1: a woman. Always make sure that you've got a door 42 00:01:44,209 --> 00:01:47,050 S1: open and your assistant's right outside the door. Good stuff 43 00:01:47,050 --> 00:01:49,690 S1: like that. Never travel alone in a car. You don't 44 00:01:49,690 --> 00:01:55,210 S1: need rumors going around, let alone temptation. Just good practical 45 00:01:55,370 --> 00:02:00,020 S1: silver fox wisdom. It was awesome. Well, we came into 46 00:02:00,020 --> 00:02:02,060 S1: class one day and. 47 00:02:04,060 --> 00:02:04,779 S4: Oh no. 48 00:02:04,940 --> 00:02:07,140 S1: Two guys said, hey, we were talking about something. We 49 00:02:07,180 --> 00:02:09,139 S1: got a question for you. Now it's a little it's 50 00:02:09,139 --> 00:02:12,780 S1: a small class, so it's like 15 guys. And he goes, 51 00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:16,500 S1: all right, what's the question? And they said, is there 52 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:22,860 S1: any time sexual self-gratification is okay. It's kind of quiet 53 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:23,460 S1: in here right now. 54 00:02:23,500 --> 00:02:25,020 S5: It's probably quiet in there too. 55 00:02:25,580 --> 00:02:28,940 S1: Yeah. It was quiet. Real quiet, real awkward. I'm looking 56 00:02:28,940 --> 00:02:32,820 S1: at my buddy Joe Galindo, and he's looking back at 57 00:02:32,820 --> 00:02:36,180 S1: me like, what the heck are these guys doing here, man? 58 00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:38,540 S1: And Hughes says, well, let's go to the scriptures. So 59 00:02:38,540 --> 00:02:40,980 S1: we went to different points in the word of God, 60 00:02:41,020 --> 00:02:42,419 S1: and I'm not even going to tell you where those 61 00:02:42,419 --> 00:02:48,700 S1: points are. It doesn't really matter. And he went back 62 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:52,740 S1: and forth with these guys a little bit. And he 63 00:02:53,860 --> 00:02:59,790 S1: built a biblical case for why we cannot, in our 64 00:02:59,790 --> 00:03:02,870 S1: own strength and our own reasoning, look for outs when 65 00:03:02,910 --> 00:03:06,750 S1: God's got a greater way. Okay. And it was really 66 00:03:06,750 --> 00:03:09,590 S1: funny because after class, you and I were really close, 67 00:03:10,310 --> 00:03:13,470 S1: and he walks up to me and Joe after the 68 00:03:13,470 --> 00:03:17,710 S1: class is over, he goes, well, talk about a couple 69 00:03:17,750 --> 00:03:23,230 S1: of brothers that self-disclose without saying anything. My goodness. And 70 00:03:23,230 --> 00:03:26,030 S1: he just roared. He said, man, isn't it great to 71 00:03:26,030 --> 00:03:28,190 S1: be in a class where we can talk about this stuff? 72 00:03:28,190 --> 00:03:31,669 S1: And I said, it really is. It really is. But 73 00:03:31,790 --> 00:03:37,390 S1: looking for outs is something. It's just time immemorial. It's 74 00:03:37,390 --> 00:03:41,430 S1: always been done. Everybody's looking for an escape hatch. Passage 75 00:03:41,430 --> 00:03:42,470 S1: for something, right? 76 00:03:42,670 --> 00:03:47,790 S3: Yes. Something that will somehow allow us to maybe go 77 00:03:47,790 --> 00:03:51,310 S3: a direction that we would prefer to go. And God 78 00:03:51,310 --> 00:03:52,870 S3: still be okay with it. 79 00:03:53,070 --> 00:03:58,240 S1: Oh my goodness. So Jesus was pinned down because he 80 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,720 S1: he came into a culture that was looking for outs 81 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,840 S1: in every way under the sun. Let's just face it. 82 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,280 S1: So he got pinned down. The Pharisees came up to 83 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,880 S1: him in order to test him and asked him, is 84 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:15,800 S1: it lawful for a man to divorce his wife? Done done, done. 85 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,400 S1: And he answered them, what did Moses command? You always 86 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,880 S1: answer a question with a question. Mom and dad of 87 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:30,160 S1: your kids on anything. And they said Moses allowed a 88 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,800 S1: man to write a certificate of divorce and to send 89 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,640 S1: her away. And Jesus said to them, because of your 90 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:40,840 S1: hardness of heart, he wrote you this commandment. But from 91 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:45,240 S1: the beginning of creation God made them male and female. 92 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,680 S1: Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and 93 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,320 S1: hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become 94 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:55,370 S1: one flesh. So they are no longer two, but one flesh. 95 00:04:55,610 --> 00:05:02,250 S1: What therefore God has joined together. Let not man separate. 96 00:05:02,930 --> 00:05:07,250 S1: Quick parenthetical thought on this. This original language is in 97 00:05:07,290 --> 00:05:11,130 S1: what God has brought together. Let not God man separate 98 00:05:11,130 --> 00:05:15,770 S1: is is such powerful imagery. The best metaphor I have 99 00:05:15,770 --> 00:05:17,770 S1: for this is a lot of people want to look 100 00:05:17,770 --> 00:05:20,890 S1: at marriage like a post-it note. You know, it's that sticky. 101 00:05:20,890 --> 00:05:23,210 S1: So you can stick it here, but you can rip 102 00:05:23,210 --> 00:05:26,690 S1: it off and stick it over there. But when dad 103 00:05:26,690 --> 00:05:28,930 S1: and I were building our home together on on the 104 00:05:28,930 --> 00:05:33,770 S1: lake just outside of Anchorage, Alaska, I got some subfloor 105 00:05:33,770 --> 00:05:36,810 S1: nailed down one late afternoon, only to get up the 106 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:39,370 S1: next day and find out where we put that subfloor 107 00:05:39,370 --> 00:05:41,370 S1: was in the wrong place and it had to come up. 108 00:05:41,370 --> 00:05:45,650 S1: So the night before I had put down subfloor adhesive 109 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:48,730 S1: on the floor joists, laid down the big piece of plywood, 110 00:05:49,130 --> 00:05:52,420 S1: and then I'd taken ring shank nails and hand-driven them. 111 00:05:52,420 --> 00:05:56,380 S1: So they're like 2.25in ring shank nails. Now, if you're 112 00:05:56,380 --> 00:05:58,660 S1: in construction, all you need to know when ring shanks 113 00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:01,539 S1: go in, they don't come out because there's little rings 114 00:06:01,540 --> 00:06:05,580 S1: all around that nail. So but I was like optimistic. 115 00:06:05,580 --> 00:06:07,820 S1: I'm like, well, let's let's get this up. So I'm 116 00:06:07,820 --> 00:06:12,140 S1: pulling out the ring shanks. And as I'm, I pulled 117 00:06:12,140 --> 00:06:14,140 S1: out the ring shanks. That's good. But then I started 118 00:06:14,140 --> 00:06:17,220 S1: to get the plywood up. Guys, the subfloor adhesive in 119 00:06:17,220 --> 00:06:21,900 S1: this plywood hadn't been down more than just hours, but 120 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:24,060 S1: as I tried to pull it up, it didn't come up. 121 00:06:24,420 --> 00:06:28,900 S1: And then I start getting spud bars and wonder bars 122 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:32,060 S1: and cat's paws. Those are tools that carpenters use to 123 00:06:32,100 --> 00:06:35,300 S1: get this thing pulled up. And I mean to tell you, 124 00:06:35,900 --> 00:06:41,340 S1: it was a mess. I had plywood splintering galore. Here's 125 00:06:41,339 --> 00:06:46,179 S1: the mystery of marriage. What God has brought together. Let 126 00:06:46,220 --> 00:06:50,230 S1: no man tear apart When we mess with a God 127 00:06:50,230 --> 00:06:54,870 S1: covenant like that, all hell breaks loose. It splinters homes, 128 00:06:54,870 --> 00:07:00,309 S1: it splinters relationships. It's split leaves splinters in minds of 129 00:07:00,310 --> 00:07:04,870 S1: kids and moms and dads. It's brutal, guys, and you don't. 130 00:07:04,870 --> 00:07:07,350 S1: You don't have to be in ministry 40 years like 131 00:07:07,350 --> 00:07:08,789 S1: me to know that, right? 132 00:07:08,790 --> 00:07:10,590 S3: And I don't think that we need to. Look, you 133 00:07:10,590 --> 00:07:13,190 S3: don't even have to look at research or studies. I 134 00:07:13,190 --> 00:07:17,870 S3: think your own experience, whether it's something that your family 135 00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:21,190 S3: has gone through or a family close to you, you've 136 00:07:21,190 --> 00:07:23,830 S3: seen it. You've seen the fallout of of how much 137 00:07:23,830 --> 00:07:29,310 S3: pain there is when a marriage separates or a or 138 00:07:29,310 --> 00:07:31,190 S3: when there's a divorce, there's a fracture. 139 00:07:31,230 --> 00:07:32,830 S1: It's self-evident, isn't it, Ali? 140 00:07:32,870 --> 00:07:33,630 S3: Absolutely. 141 00:07:33,630 --> 00:07:35,950 S1: Yeah. You're right on, sister. You don't need a study 142 00:07:35,950 --> 00:07:38,790 S1: for this one. So what was Jesus up against? There 143 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:41,870 S1: were two rabbinical camps that he was up against in 144 00:07:41,870 --> 00:07:48,440 S1: this text. One rabbinical camp was very strict only for infidelity, immorality, 145 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,520 S1: a husband or a wife cheats on the other one. 146 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,320 S1: You're free to divorce, the other was taken Moses's command 147 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,480 S1: and going, hey man, if you're looking for an out, 148 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,640 S1: just find one. She burnt the stew. You're out. You 149 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,680 S1: she she did something. You're out. He did something. You're out. 150 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,120 S1: And by the way, generally speaking, it would have been 151 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:14,840 S1: the man's opportunity because Jesus was very egalitarian compared to 152 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:19,840 S1: the rabbis of the day. But everyone was looking for 153 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:25,280 S1: an out. There are two only two biblical outs in Scripture, 154 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,640 S1: and I hate to use the word out, but I'm 155 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,040 S1: using it because that's what people are looking for. And 156 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,920 S1: then I'm going to flip this thing around on you. 157 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:37,040 S1: One is sexual immorality found in Matthew 19 nine. The 158 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:43,680 S1: other one is abandonment, found in first Corinthians 715. So 159 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,809 S1: if a in what Paul says, if an unbelieving spouse leaves, 160 00:08:47,809 --> 00:08:51,050 S1: you are no longer bound over to them, you are 161 00:08:51,050 --> 00:08:59,450 S1: free to go. But here's the kicker. God's greatest plan 162 00:08:59,450 --> 00:09:01,330 S1: is to believe him for a miracle. 163 00:09:01,650 --> 00:09:04,370 S6: She was trying to earn her way to God, but 164 00:09:04,370 --> 00:09:07,850 S6: God showed her she didn't have to. Ali is in 165 00:09:07,890 --> 00:09:11,250 S6: the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio. 166 00:09:11,410 --> 00:09:16,410 S1: You know, it's human nature to look for outs. Supernatural. 167 00:09:16,410 --> 00:09:19,569 S1: To wait for God to do a miracle. Marriage is 168 00:09:19,570 --> 00:09:23,850 S1: one of those. Jesus was pinned down a couple of 169 00:09:23,890 --> 00:09:27,850 S1: different camps of rabbis. One was really strict, said, hey man, 170 00:09:27,850 --> 00:09:34,010 S1: marriage can only be split through immorality. Divorce is only 171 00:09:34,010 --> 00:09:38,450 S1: a concession then. And the other camp was like, hey, 172 00:09:38,490 --> 00:09:41,730 S1: Moses said, you can write her a certificate of divorce 173 00:09:42,010 --> 00:09:45,020 S1: if you didn't make the bed. Well, she's out of here. No, 174 00:09:45,460 --> 00:09:49,460 S1: Jesus said, listen. God's intention. What God has pulled together, 175 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:52,100 S1: let no man tear apart. So the question we have 176 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:55,420 S1: for you today. Did you have a biblical out? And 177 00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:58,780 S1: I'm using that in air quotes because we gotta believe 178 00:09:58,820 --> 00:10:02,660 S1: God for miracles. But you believe God for a miracle 179 00:10:02,940 --> 00:10:05,820 S1: and he did it. Let's go to the phone lines. 180 00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:09,579 S3: Let's go to Edwin. First time caller from Naples, Florida. Edwin, 181 00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:11,340 S3: give it. Give it to us. Tell us your story. 182 00:10:12,580 --> 00:10:14,540 S7: Good morning. Good morning. Thank you for having me. And 183 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:18,459 S7: I appreciate you guys. Yes. Uh, several years back, my 184 00:10:18,460 --> 00:10:20,980 S7: wife and I were in a situation, and, uh, we 185 00:10:21,020 --> 00:10:25,100 S7: knew we weren't walking for God. And he met us 186 00:10:25,100 --> 00:10:29,260 S7: after a biblical fast church. Fast. And he basically said, 187 00:10:29,260 --> 00:10:32,620 S7: if you want to know me, then you have to confess. 188 00:10:33,420 --> 00:10:37,900 S7: So in that process, we both came together, both made confessions, 189 00:10:38,620 --> 00:10:41,670 S7: and technically, both had a biblical out. and mom was 190 00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:46,350 S7: obviously more of a deeper situation and I just trusted him. 191 00:10:46,390 --> 00:10:48,350 S7: I had a comfort. He said, if you just come forward, 192 00:10:48,390 --> 00:10:50,990 S7: if you just confess and if you just lay it 193 00:10:50,990 --> 00:10:54,270 S7: all out, I've got this. And he just gave me 194 00:10:54,270 --> 00:10:59,510 S7: a comfort and I did. And, uh, she was in 195 00:10:59,550 --> 00:11:03,709 S7: the process of talking to attorneys for divorce. And in 196 00:11:03,750 --> 00:11:08,750 S7: that process, uh, we had three children already, and the 197 00:11:08,750 --> 00:11:10,550 S7: doctor said she couldn't have any more children. 198 00:11:10,950 --> 00:11:11,470 S1: Oh, boy. 199 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:17,150 S7: And, yeah, so the miracle is, she found out she 200 00:11:17,150 --> 00:11:20,670 S7: was pregnant. After the doctor said she couldn't have any 201 00:11:20,670 --> 00:11:24,350 S7: more children, she found out she was pregnant. And the 202 00:11:24,350 --> 00:11:26,910 S7: name that he gave us both to us, that came 203 00:11:26,910 --> 00:11:28,990 S7: to us was Ezra. And if you do the biblical 204 00:11:28,990 --> 00:11:31,110 S7: translation of Ezra, it means helper. 205 00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:31,870 S1: Yeah. 206 00:11:32,429 --> 00:11:36,589 S7: And since then, we now have seven children, two grandchildren. 207 00:11:36,590 --> 00:11:39,119 S7: And we're we're approaching our 25th anniversary. 208 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:44,120 S1: Oh, Edwin, you're. Oh, my man. I'll tell you something, Edwin. 209 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,680 S1: I'm glad you came clean with your bride. But I'm 210 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,040 S1: most proud of your bride, aren't you? Man, that she 211 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:49,920 S1: took you back? 212 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,000 S7: Absolutely. And it's only by. By what he put in 213 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,360 S7: her heart. She was standing in the kitchen one day 214 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,680 S7: and said. Please forgive him. Forgive him. And then put 215 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:03,920 S7: in the the whole thing as far as what his 216 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,960 S7: salvation is within her heart. And she had such a peace. 217 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,880 S1: Ah that's beautiful. Edwin, I want to tell you. Thank you. 218 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:12,520 S1: And I'm going to send you and your bride, a 219 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,320 S1: Carl and Crew prize pack today. So stay on the horn, okay? 220 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,199 S1: My man. Boom, brother. That's why we call you the 221 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,000 S1: boom crew. Did you have a biblical out using that 222 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,400 S1: in air? Quotes the word out. But believe God for 223 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,000 S1: a miracle in your marriage. Let's go back to the 224 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,360 S1: phone lines. Who do we have? 225 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,720 S3: We have Tammy calling in this morning from Ohio. Tammy, 226 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,600 S3: tell us, did you have a biblical out or what 227 00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:38,860 S3: was the situation there? You believed God for a miracle 228 00:12:38,860 --> 00:12:39,580 S3: in your marriage? 229 00:12:40,740 --> 00:12:42,940 S8: Um, I did. My husband and I have been married 230 00:12:42,940 --> 00:12:48,179 S8: for 33 years. Um, both Christians went to church. Just 231 00:12:48,220 --> 00:12:51,420 S8: tried to serve God. Um, on a Sunday. We were 232 00:12:51,420 --> 00:12:53,140 S8: in church together. His arm was around me. And the 233 00:12:53,140 --> 00:12:55,660 S8: next Wednesday he came home to tell me that he 234 00:12:55,660 --> 00:12:57,540 S8: was having an affair and he didn't love me anymore. 235 00:12:57,540 --> 00:13:02,700 S8: And he left for eight months. And, um, I was devastated, 236 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:07,140 S8: but I just felt God's peace. Oh, his peace just 237 00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:10,460 S8: kept me those eight months. I never felt the desire to. 238 00:13:11,140 --> 00:13:13,220 S8: I was not released from that marriage. And I had 239 00:13:13,220 --> 00:13:15,220 S8: people telling me this. You have the out. You can 240 00:13:15,220 --> 00:13:17,860 S8: do this. I did have divorce papers drawn up at 241 00:13:17,860 --> 00:13:22,460 S8: his request. And, um, we had a grandson born. My 242 00:13:22,460 --> 00:13:24,260 S8: son sent his dad a picture of the kids were 243 00:13:24,260 --> 00:13:27,860 S8: not speaking to him. He had abandoned all of us. And, um, 244 00:13:27,980 --> 00:13:30,340 S8: that picture came at a time when my husband was 245 00:13:30,340 --> 00:13:35,150 S8: contemplating suicide and, um, turned his life around, and he 246 00:13:35,150 --> 00:13:39,150 S8: came back to God, came back to his family. And 247 00:13:39,150 --> 00:13:42,829 S8: God just God just did a miracle because we had 248 00:13:42,870 --> 00:13:46,230 S8: a special needs son who had open heart surgery. Number six, 249 00:13:46,270 --> 00:13:48,070 S8: the next year we had no time for counseling. I 250 00:13:48,070 --> 00:13:50,910 S8: would not recommend that to anybody. But God healed our marriage. 251 00:13:51,070 --> 00:13:51,390 S1: Wow. 252 00:13:51,830 --> 00:13:55,190 S8: And my husband got cancer in 22 and passed away 253 00:13:55,190 --> 00:13:58,589 S8: last year, and the family was whole and I'm so grateful. 254 00:13:58,630 --> 00:14:03,190 S1: Oh, Tammy. Oh, Tammy. Oh, Tammy. Wow. What do you. 255 00:14:03,190 --> 00:14:06,309 S1: I want you to speak to the man that's paddling 256 00:14:06,309 --> 00:14:09,310 S1: around cheating on his wife right now. Tell him. Talk 257 00:14:09,309 --> 00:14:10,670 S1: to him, Tammy. Right now. 258 00:14:11,870 --> 00:14:15,309 S8: Do not ever go outside of your marriage to solve 259 00:14:15,350 --> 00:14:18,110 S8: something that needs to be solved within your marriage. It's 260 00:14:18,110 --> 00:14:21,790 S8: not worth it. It's devastating. It's devastating. 261 00:14:22,630 --> 00:14:26,310 S1: Speak to the woman, Tammy, who's found out or suspects 262 00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:28,550 S1: her husband's cheating on her. What do you say? 263 00:14:30,190 --> 00:14:33,480 S8: Uh, if you have a relationship with Jesus, that that's 264 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,520 S8: your lifeline right there. Just cling to God. Follow everything 265 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:43,120 S8: he says. Forgive. Just forgive I. And that that came 266 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,560 S8: easy only because it was a God thing. It was 267 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:49,160 S8: nothing that I did like. God did that miracle in 268 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:53,800 S8: me and I just can't explain it. Other than that, 269 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,280 S8: like that, that forgiveness. There's no other word but a miracle. 270 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:03,640 S1: There isn't. Boom, boom. Tammy. We love you, sister. That 271 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:04,640 S1: is so inspiring. 272 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:05,200 S8: Thank you. 273 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:12,640 S1: Man, just. You're a rock star for Jesus, girl. Wow. Jim. 274 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,720 S1: First time caller. Kentwood, Michigan. What's your story? Do you 275 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,200 S1: believe God for a miracle? 276 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,560 S9: Absolutely believe God for a miracle. My story is, uh, 277 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,240 S9: wife and I, we didn't start out in the traditional 278 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,120 S9: marriage way. And, uh, you know, we got married out 279 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:33,130 S9: of wedlock, but we were We were born again. Uh, 280 00:15:33,130 --> 00:15:35,890 S9: living maybe a little out of God's will, I guess, 281 00:15:35,930 --> 00:15:38,290 S9: in that that's how it started. But we had been 282 00:15:38,290 --> 00:15:41,570 S9: together for years. But to try to keep it short, uh, 283 00:15:42,450 --> 00:15:44,450 S9: we ended up after a number of years and we 284 00:15:44,450 --> 00:15:49,090 S9: had four kids. Uh, I was, I would call it abandonment. 285 00:15:49,090 --> 00:15:52,690 S9: That would have been her out because I just was, uh, uh, 286 00:15:53,050 --> 00:15:56,730 S9: using some some substances. I shouldn't have been. I was working, 287 00:15:56,770 --> 00:15:59,730 S9: taking care of business that way. But in the in 288 00:15:59,810 --> 00:16:04,090 S9: the in the process, she she drifted and ended up 289 00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:08,370 S9: involved with someone. There was some infidelity involved and divorce 290 00:16:08,370 --> 00:16:11,490 S9: papers were served. And we we we split up for 291 00:16:11,490 --> 00:16:15,810 S9: roughly 6 to 8, ten months. And by the miracle 292 00:16:15,810 --> 00:16:19,130 S9: of God, uh, he pulled her over one day, and 293 00:16:19,130 --> 00:16:22,090 S9: and she happened to see me on the road, and and, uh, 294 00:16:23,050 --> 00:16:26,530 S9: she waved me down. We got back together. And just 295 00:16:26,570 --> 00:16:29,090 S9: to make it clear for everybody, you know, marriage is 296 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:30,620 S9: a it's a tough process. 297 00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:30,900 S1: And. 298 00:16:31,460 --> 00:16:33,780 S9: There's a lot of work involved. But if you're if 299 00:16:33,780 --> 00:16:37,380 S9: if you are willing and you'll trust God to help you, 300 00:16:37,620 --> 00:16:40,620 S9: you can make it through. So the the sideline vault 301 00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:48,700 S9: is this Thursday will celebrate 50 years. 066 grandkids later. And, uh, again, uh, 302 00:16:48,740 --> 00:16:50,460 S9: I wouldn't have it any other way. And I'm sure 303 00:16:50,460 --> 00:16:53,340 S9: she would say the same thing. And the other miracle is, 304 00:16:53,380 --> 00:16:56,300 S9: is just that I happen to pick up this show today, 305 00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:58,620 S9: and I was so moved to call, I normally wouldn't 306 00:16:58,620 --> 00:16:59,580 S9: do something like this. 307 00:16:59,580 --> 00:17:00,500 S1: But Jim. 308 00:17:00,660 --> 00:17:03,100 S9: I'm thanking God for that and praising God for all. 309 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:05,700 S1: That. You inspired someone Jim. And I love you man. 310 00:17:05,700 --> 00:17:09,979 S1: Thank you so much for calling in today. You know, 311 00:17:10,020 --> 00:17:12,060 S1: I just want to speak to you because these are 312 00:17:12,060 --> 00:17:15,380 S1: three callers back to back to back and boom to 313 00:17:15,420 --> 00:17:17,460 S1: you Jim. Thank you man. This is why we call 314 00:17:17,460 --> 00:17:21,020 S1: you the Boom Crew. The stories of real life miracles 315 00:17:21,020 --> 00:17:25,419 S1: of God giving grace abounding in it, where it seems like, uh, 316 00:17:25,420 --> 00:17:30,270 S1: there's no way forward here. But to you, my friend, 317 00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:32,830 S1: my man, I want you to listen to me. Quit 318 00:17:32,830 --> 00:17:35,510 S1: cheating on your wife and go confess to her right now. 319 00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:38,790 S1: I want you to go get a pastor counsel first. 320 00:17:38,790 --> 00:17:40,909 S1: And I want you to line up your ducks. Because 321 00:17:40,910 --> 00:17:49,150 S1: the Holy Spirit's telling you you're being stupid. You're being stupid. Say, Carl, 322 00:17:49,190 --> 00:17:52,189 S1: does the Holy Spirit speak that way? Oh, yeah. If 323 00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:55,430 S1: you listen, you'll hear him every day saying something stupid. 324 00:17:57,270 --> 00:18:06,230 S1: And there's a better way. And, sweetheart, young lady, woman 325 00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:10,149 S1: of God, you're listening here today because you were wondering 326 00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:12,950 S1: what God might say to you today. Maybe you need 327 00:18:12,950 --> 00:18:17,629 S1: to do the same. And I would encourage you to 328 00:18:17,630 --> 00:18:20,630 S1: go get some pastoral support and then line up your 329 00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:25,840 S1: ducks and go, come clean and watch God do a miracle. 330 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:31,200 S1: That's my appeal to you today. Please stop and believe 331 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,520 S1: that the tomb is empty. Our God is still doing 332 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,320 S1: miracles today. And father, in Jesus name, I pray that 333 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,480 S1: you would take people that are at a perilous moment 334 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:50,840 S1: right now and bring them back. Bring them back. God, 335 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,359 S1: how sweet a redemption story it is when people who 336 00:18:54,359 --> 00:19:04,119 S1: have outs. People who have messed up. Confess and believe 337 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:08,480 S1: you for more. And I praise you today. In the 338 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,840 S1: name of Jesus we praise you. Amen. And let it be. 339 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:18,480 S6: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew. 340 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:24,129 S1: Have you ever noticed how the scribes and the Pharisees 341 00:19:24,130 --> 00:19:28,210 S1: and the Sadducees tried to set traps for Jesus. 342 00:19:28,210 --> 00:19:29,050 S3: All the time. 343 00:19:29,410 --> 00:19:30,689 S1: Like constantly. 344 00:19:30,730 --> 00:19:36,450 S3: They'll set up questions, scenarios. Let's see if he walks 345 00:19:36,450 --> 00:19:37,490 S3: into this one. 346 00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:40,650 S1: And here's I want I want to tackle this one. 347 00:19:40,650 --> 00:19:43,250 S1: We're going to be tackling deeply here today. But here's 348 00:19:43,250 --> 00:19:47,650 S1: the setup. The Pharisees came up and in order to 349 00:19:47,690 --> 00:19:51,730 S1: test him, asked Jesus, is it lawful for a man 350 00:19:51,730 --> 00:19:54,330 S1: to divorce his wife? And he answered them, what did 351 00:19:54,330 --> 00:19:58,490 S1: Moses command you, by the way? Great strategy. Even raising kids. 352 00:19:58,490 --> 00:20:03,170 S1: Answer questions with questions, they said. Moses allowed a man 353 00:20:03,170 --> 00:20:05,490 S1: to write a certificate of divorce and send her away. 354 00:20:05,490 --> 00:20:08,610 S1: And Jesus said to them, this is so important because 355 00:20:08,609 --> 00:20:12,530 S1: of your hardness of heart. He wrote you this commandment. 356 00:20:13,130 --> 00:20:17,129 S1: But from the beginning of creation God made them male 357 00:20:17,130 --> 00:20:21,250 S1: and female. Therefore a man shall leave his father and 358 00:20:21,250 --> 00:20:23,860 S1: mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two 359 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:27,860 S1: shall be one flesh. And they are no longer two 360 00:20:28,260 --> 00:20:33,060 S1: but one. What therefore God has joined together. Let not 361 00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:40,740 S1: man separate. You know what it's about. Faithfulness over convenience. 362 00:20:41,260 --> 00:20:45,500 S1: And sometimes convenience in marriage is we're going to split 363 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,580 S1: the sheets. And the trap that Jesus was avoiding here 364 00:20:49,580 --> 00:20:54,260 S1: is two sides. If he sided with the rabbis, he'd 365 00:20:54,260 --> 00:20:58,660 S1: lose popularity. If he sided with the lenient ones, he 366 00:20:58,660 --> 00:21:03,260 S1: could accuse him of opposing God's law. They could do 367 00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:06,020 S1: that to him. But no, he took this high ridge, 368 00:21:06,020 --> 00:21:10,300 S1: and he said, Even Moses gave you that law because 369 00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:15,420 S1: of your hardness of heart, in other words, faithfulness over convenience. 370 00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:17,740 S1: And I just want to ask you this all you 371 00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:21,870 S1: married folks, have you ever had a time in marriage 372 00:21:21,869 --> 00:21:25,030 S1: when you thought, boy, the convenient thing here would be 373 00:21:25,030 --> 00:21:28,590 S1: to split the sheets. I'm out of here. Everybody's had 374 00:21:28,590 --> 00:21:31,710 S1: that thought before and you may not have drilled down 375 00:21:31,710 --> 00:21:35,270 S1: on it real hard, but the question is how important 376 00:21:35,270 --> 00:21:39,270 S1: is faithfulness to a covenant of marriage? We don't talk 377 00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:40,910 S1: that about that around here a lot. Do we. 378 00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:44,190 S3: Know? And, you know, I think sometimes when we in 379 00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:47,950 S3: our culture that's still, still esteems marriage pretty highly. I 380 00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:50,229 S3: know that a lot of people are waiting longer to 381 00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:53,470 S3: get married, but it's still we still get those announcements 382 00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:56,110 S3: and the save the dates and all the pomp and 383 00:21:56,109 --> 00:21:59,550 S3: circumstance surrounding the ceremony. But we don't often talk about 384 00:21:59,550 --> 00:22:03,870 S3: what the marriage itself represents, that that covenant is more 385 00:22:03,869 --> 00:22:08,629 S3: than just two people falling in love and happily ever after. 386 00:22:08,790 --> 00:22:12,550 S3: Like this is a picture of of Jesus and the church. 387 00:22:13,070 --> 00:22:16,950 S1: And it's and it's a universal truth that something happens 388 00:22:16,950 --> 00:22:20,600 S1: when we're married. This is why, when God says what? 389 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,639 S1: What I bring together, let no man tear asunder. I 390 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,520 S1: like that word. That's old King James word. But let 391 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,000 S1: no man tear apart. Is that what happens when we 392 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,720 S1: go messing with that covenant relationship of marriage? Anyone that's 393 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,120 S1: divorced listening right now knows what kind of turmoil and 394 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:43,560 S1: how many splinters just shatter every which direction. So sometimes 395 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,000 S1: you need a testimony of someone who hung in there, right, Allie? 396 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,480 S3: Absolutely. And we've got one, of course, coming up. 397 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,840 S6: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl 398 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,080 S6: and crew on Facebook and Instagram. 399 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,320 S1: So we had an interesting passage. And it's this principle 400 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:05,720 S1: of faithfulness over convenience. And we know that if we 401 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,959 S1: are a slave to convenience, we'll bail out on stuff 402 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,439 S1: left and right, won't we, Allie? 403 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:16,080 S3: Uh, yes. And that includes marriage. Because if we're honest, 404 00:23:16,250 --> 00:23:19,330 S3: marriage is hard and there are difficult things that every 405 00:23:19,330 --> 00:23:22,410 S3: marriage goes through. And we've got a guest who's no 406 00:23:22,410 --> 00:23:26,610 S3: stranger to going through difficult things in marriage. Jill Savage, author, blogger, 407 00:23:26,609 --> 00:23:30,090 S3: international speaker. Was there a time in your marriage, Jill, 408 00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:33,850 S3: where you thought it would be much easier to divorce 409 00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:36,210 S3: than it would be to try to rebuild this thing? 410 00:23:36,810 --> 00:23:42,369 S10: Oh, absolutely. Um, you know, it happened for us. I mean, honestly, 411 00:23:42,609 --> 00:23:45,010 S10: let's just go back. So Mark and I say that 412 00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:48,369 S10: we've been married 42 years, 32 of them happily. 413 00:23:48,490 --> 00:23:50,889 S1: That's a decade that wasn't clicking real well. 414 00:23:51,090 --> 00:23:55,129 S10: Yeah, but it wasn't a consistent decade. It was six 415 00:23:55,130 --> 00:24:01,090 S10: months here, a year there. Uh, 18 months here and there. Uh, 416 00:24:01,130 --> 00:24:07,730 S10: and then in 2012, 2011, actually, it went through its 417 00:24:07,730 --> 00:24:12,370 S10: darkest season. And, um, it was during that dark season 418 00:24:12,490 --> 00:24:17,379 S10: that my husband lost his way and had an affair 419 00:24:17,380 --> 00:24:22,500 S10: and separated. None of which like I mean that if 420 00:24:22,540 --> 00:24:24,500 S10: you would have, if you would have asked me, I 421 00:24:24,500 --> 00:24:28,220 S10: would have put us in the least likely category for 422 00:24:28,260 --> 00:24:33,340 S10: that to have ever, ever happened. And so it was 423 00:24:33,580 --> 00:24:37,020 S10: it was then a dark year that, you know, just 424 00:24:37,060 --> 00:24:41,619 S10: added on to other dark seasons for us. And, uh, 425 00:24:41,660 --> 00:24:43,699 S10: it was during that time, I mean, I'll be honest 426 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:47,859 S10: with you, um, I, I was standing for my marriage 427 00:24:47,859 --> 00:24:52,180 S10: because I believed if my husband would return to his God, 428 00:24:52,340 --> 00:24:56,100 S10: he would return to his family. But I heard a 429 00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,940 S10: lot of people, and there was even days where I 430 00:24:59,980 --> 00:25:03,020 S10: felt like I just need to. I just need to stop. 431 00:25:03,220 --> 00:25:06,740 S10: I just need to be done. This is too hard. 432 00:25:07,500 --> 00:25:10,340 S1: And Jill, here's the interesting thing. And I just all 433 00:25:10,340 --> 00:25:13,149 S1: of you that are listening right now, this passage of 434 00:25:13,150 --> 00:25:16,030 S1: Scripture that we're looking at here today, a trap was 435 00:25:16,030 --> 00:25:19,310 S1: being set for Jesus. And there then the Pharisees are asking, well, 436 00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:22,750 S1: why did Moses give a certificate of divorce? And Jesus said, listen, 437 00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:26,950 S1: it was their hardness of heart. But God's intention is 438 00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:30,030 S1: that it's his doing. Marriage is his idea, not man's. 439 00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:35,070 S1: And we need to stay faithful if at all possible. Now, 440 00:25:35,070 --> 00:25:38,470 S1: I'm going to be candid here, Jill. As a pastor, 441 00:25:39,270 --> 00:25:42,470 S1: there are some biblical outs and you must have heard 442 00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:45,630 S1: this from people, right? Saying you're you're free to go 443 00:25:45,630 --> 00:25:49,030 S1: because Matthew 19 nine is sexual immorality. You've got a 444 00:25:49,030 --> 00:25:52,150 S1: biblical out, and I hate using that term, but that's 445 00:25:52,150 --> 00:25:54,990 S1: how it's used. The other one would be abandonment. First 446 00:25:54,990 --> 00:25:59,869 S1: Corinthians 715. And there's varying different positions theologically about what 447 00:25:59,910 --> 00:26:05,189 S1: abandonment means there. This is important, Jill, and this is 448 00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:09,030 S1: what I'm so proud of you not and I'm proud 449 00:26:09,030 --> 00:26:12,040 S1: of you, but I'm proud of Christ in you. If 450 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,240 S1: we can remember that marriage is God's idea, and that 451 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,159 S1: his desire is that we leave and cleave and become one, 452 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,000 S1: even an out God can give a miracle over that 453 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,159 S1: where we don't split the sheets and run. My question 454 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,800 S1: is simple what kept you fighting for marriage when you 455 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,719 S1: had a biblical out that you could have left him? 456 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,120 S10: The only thing I can tell you is it was 457 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,880 S10: the Holy Spirit that was telling me, I want you 458 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,120 S10: to love him. And at that point, I didn't feel 459 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,040 S10: any release from my marriage. I just didn't feel that 460 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,400 S10: I had that God was saying I knew I had 461 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,080 S10: a biblical out, but I did not feel like the 462 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,280 S10: Holy Spirit was saying, you're out of here. You're released 463 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,960 S10: from this. I think there are times that that happens 464 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,810 S10: for people, and I wonder if my husband had never 465 00:27:09,810 --> 00:27:13,810 S10: made that U-turn, would I have probably gotten to that place? Sure. 466 00:27:13,970 --> 00:27:14,450 S1: Yeah. 467 00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:18,730 S10: But he did make the U-turn. It was a year. 468 00:27:19,090 --> 00:27:24,010 S10: And I'm so grateful that I listened to the Holy 469 00:27:24,010 --> 00:27:27,490 S10: Spirit and honestly did not listen to some of the 470 00:27:27,490 --> 00:27:30,689 S10: people around me, because I'm going to be honest, even 471 00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:36,250 S10: my Christian friends, even some of the deepest faith, were saying, Jill, 472 00:27:36,450 --> 00:27:40,570 S10: it's time to be done. And that was I mean, 473 00:27:40,609 --> 00:27:42,850 S10: I just was like, there was this tug of war 474 00:27:42,890 --> 00:27:46,410 S10: between what I felt like the Holy Spirit was telling 475 00:27:46,410 --> 00:27:49,570 S10: me and what I felt like people around me were 476 00:27:49,570 --> 00:27:52,090 S10: telling me. And even in my mind going, I have 477 00:27:52,090 --> 00:27:55,050 S10: a biblical out. But I just didn't feel. I felt 478 00:27:55,050 --> 00:27:57,650 S10: like the Lord was saying, I want you to wait. 479 00:27:57,650 --> 00:28:01,610 S10: And let me tell you, Carl, while I waited in that, 480 00:28:01,850 --> 00:28:07,540 S10: you know, that year was probably the most powerful growth. 481 00:28:07,859 --> 00:28:11,460 S10: Spiritual growth I've ever experienced in my entire life. 482 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:12,619 S1: That's so beautiful. 483 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:16,220 S3: Wow. Jill Savage, our guest right now, she, along with 484 00:28:16,220 --> 00:28:19,619 S3: her husband, Mark. They've authored a book, No More Perfect Marriages. 485 00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:23,020 S3: They also do ministry together. I want to make sure 486 00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:25,460 S3: we mention that. That Mark's not on this interview, but 487 00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:29,340 S3: this is a story that they regularly share together. He's 488 00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:33,180 S3: not here. But from his perspective, what changed in him? 489 00:28:33,180 --> 00:28:36,740 S3: What clicked? That was the turnaround point for him because 490 00:28:36,740 --> 00:28:39,940 S3: you alluded to he got off track not just in 491 00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:42,380 S3: his marriage, but he was away from the Lord. 492 00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:47,340 S10: Yeah, absolutely. And when Mark shares the story, he often 493 00:28:47,340 --> 00:28:50,420 S10: will share that all of our married life he kept 494 00:28:50,420 --> 00:28:54,180 S10: looking for the easy button. That's what he was looking for. 495 00:28:54,180 --> 00:28:57,300 S10: He was looking for the easy button. And when the 496 00:28:57,300 --> 00:29:00,620 S10: easy button wasn't there, he wanted to cut and run. 497 00:29:00,860 --> 00:29:04,140 S10: And so that was a struggle for him all of 498 00:29:04,140 --> 00:29:06,310 S10: our married life. It It was part of the reason 499 00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:08,790 S10: that we would be in and out of counseling. Now. 500 00:29:08,990 --> 00:29:12,469 S10: Both of us were contributing to the dysfunctions in our marriage, 501 00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:15,310 S10: the places, you know, he would say something like, oh, 502 00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:19,470 S10: marriage just shouldn't be this hard. And I would say, well, 503 00:29:19,510 --> 00:29:23,870 S10: buck up. That's the way that marriage is. Okay. So 504 00:29:24,590 --> 00:29:27,350 S10: let's talk about the let's talk about the dysfunction on 505 00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:27,910 S10: both sides. 506 00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:29,070 S1: All right. Let's do it. 507 00:29:30,630 --> 00:29:37,110 S10: So he's expressing frustration. And I am not giving any 508 00:29:37,110 --> 00:29:41,630 S10: type of empathy and validation that's not healthy. And so 509 00:29:41,910 --> 00:29:46,030 S10: I had to I had to learn how to give empathy. 510 00:29:46,030 --> 00:29:50,470 S10: I had to learn how to give validation. And I 511 00:29:50,470 --> 00:29:53,350 S10: had to learn how to just have a compassionate heart 512 00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:56,830 S10: with my husband. Um, but he also had to learn 513 00:29:56,830 --> 00:30:00,830 S10: that there is no easy button. This is how we 514 00:30:00,830 --> 00:30:04,280 S10: are sanctified. This is how we are matured. You know, 515 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,880 S10: Gary Thomas wrote a book, Sacred Marriage. What if marriage 516 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,640 S10: wasn't designed to make us happy, but to make us holy? 517 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,400 S10: Because it brings out the worst in us sometimes. And 518 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,600 S10: then that. And God says, hey. Ooh, look at what's there. 519 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,040 S10: Let's work on that. Let's work on that. 520 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,240 S1: Yeah, yeah. And I want to I want to lay 521 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,240 S1: down a marker here because someone here's your admission of 522 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:29,520 S1: what your, what your issue was. And I just want 523 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,280 S1: to put a disclaimer here. That was a reason that 524 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:38,760 S1: Mark utilized and leveraged. But it was not an excuse 525 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,720 S1: before a holy God for him to cheat on you. Jill, 526 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,080 S1: I want to be clear with that. 527 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,840 S10: That's correct, that's correct. And I often will say I 528 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,760 S10: did not cause my husband's, uh, affair, but I did 529 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,920 S10: contribute to the dysfunction in our relationship. 530 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,920 S1: That's a great way to put it. Yeah. 531 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,600 S10: And I had to be willing to look at that. 532 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,010 S10: And that's part of what God took me on during 533 00:31:03,010 --> 00:31:06,690 S10: that year of waiting is. And honestly, I got to 534 00:31:06,730 --> 00:31:09,010 S10: the place of going, you know what? Whether my marriage 535 00:31:09,010 --> 00:31:12,770 S10: makes it or doesn't make it, this season of waiting 536 00:31:12,890 --> 00:31:16,890 S10: will not be wasted. It will not be wasted. We 537 00:31:16,930 --> 00:31:19,170 S10: now have an online course for people who are waiting 538 00:31:19,170 --> 00:31:21,970 S10: for their marriage. It's called the wait is not wasted 539 00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:26,850 S10: because that was so powerful for me, and I want 540 00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:30,690 S10: other people to be able to go, all right, whether 541 00:31:30,690 --> 00:31:33,170 S10: my marriage makes it or doesn't make it. This is 542 00:31:33,170 --> 00:31:36,810 S10: a season of of maturing, and I want to lead 543 00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:38,170 S10: people through that. 544 00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:40,530 S3: Jill Savage, our guest right now. Coming up, let's get 545 00:31:40,530 --> 00:31:43,850 S3: the rest of the story. Yes, their marriage has been restored, 546 00:31:44,010 --> 00:31:48,530 S3: but not without a lot of prayer, dedication, commitment, hard work. 547 00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:51,050 S3: What did that look like day to day? Coming up. 548 00:31:52,130 --> 00:31:56,090 S6: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to 549 00:31:56,130 --> 00:31:57,170 S6: Carl and crew. 550 00:31:57,890 --> 00:32:00,100 S1: One of the most beautiful things my bride and I 551 00:32:00,140 --> 00:32:04,500 S1: have ever seen. Is marriages that had an out. One 552 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,100 S1: or both sides had a biblical out. I'm using that 553 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:10,260 S1: in air quotes because that's such a dangerous thing when 554 00:32:10,260 --> 00:32:13,340 S1: we start going to the word looking for outs. But 555 00:32:13,340 --> 00:32:18,540 S1: God is constantly inviting us. Do you dare to believe 556 00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:22,500 S1: me for a miracle? If you stay faithful? Do you dare? 557 00:32:23,140 --> 00:32:25,100 S1: And I want to tell you this, Jill Savage, who's 558 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:29,660 S1: our guest right now? The most beautiful stories of God 559 00:32:29,660 --> 00:32:32,500 S1: at work has been my bride and I working with. 560 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,300 S1: I would put it at no less than 50 couples 561 00:32:35,540 --> 00:32:39,220 S1: where there's been infidelity and the other spouse has decided, 562 00:32:39,220 --> 00:32:41,140 S1: even though I haven't out, I'm hanging in here. Now, 563 00:32:41,140 --> 00:32:43,940 S1: I'm not saying that that I'm not condemning people that 564 00:32:43,940 --> 00:32:47,780 S1: took that out for any number of reasons, but I 565 00:32:47,820 --> 00:32:51,780 S1: am a big champion of let's believe God for miracles. Still, 566 00:32:51,780 --> 00:32:54,940 S1: the tomb is empty. You believe God for that. And 567 00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:57,990 S1: then after Mark came around, then it was all peaches 568 00:32:57,990 --> 00:32:59,990 S1: and cream from there on out. Right, Jill? 569 00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:08,030 S10: Oh, don't we wish. You know, that's when the work began. 570 00:33:08,070 --> 00:33:10,990 S10: I mean, really, I had been doing a lot of 571 00:33:11,030 --> 00:33:14,750 S10: that personal work in that year of waiting. Um, but 572 00:33:14,910 --> 00:33:18,830 S10: now he had to start the personal work. One of 573 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:22,030 S10: the things we say in our book, No More Perfect Marriages, 574 00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:25,190 S10: is when I'm a better me, we're a better we. 575 00:33:25,670 --> 00:33:29,670 S10: So we both had personal growth that we had to 576 00:33:29,710 --> 00:33:32,830 S10: work on. And then we had couple growth. We had 577 00:33:32,830 --> 00:33:36,950 S10: ways that we had to learn to interact differently. So Carl, 578 00:33:36,990 --> 00:33:41,430 S10: that that required for us, we did a weekly counseling 579 00:33:41,430 --> 00:33:46,710 S10: appointment for almost 18 months after Mark came home. And 580 00:33:46,710 --> 00:33:51,390 S10: our counselor that we found was an hour away. So 581 00:33:51,390 --> 00:33:56,480 S10: that means we drove an hour windshield time. And let 582 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,440 S10: me tell you, sometimes that hour was a really long 583 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,160 S10: hour because things were hard. And then sometimes it was 584 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,680 S10: it was, you know, like, oh my gosh, this is 585 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:11,040 S10: how God's redeeming. And so it there was ups and downs. 586 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,239 S10: We often, you know, with the couples we work with 587 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:18,239 S10: in our marriage 2.0 intensives, we will often tell them, um, okay, 588 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,960 S10: from here on out, you think that the progress is 589 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,200 S10: going to look like a line drawn from, you know, 590 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,719 S10: just drawn up and to the right? I said, it's 591 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:32,600 S10: not going to look like that. It's going to have 592 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,600 S10: some ups and downs and some hills and valleys, but 593 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,839 S10: you're still moving in a way of progression. And that's 594 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:45,720 S10: what we experienced. There were hard days. There were hard conversations. Uh, 595 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,200 S10: there were difficult things to talk through. But God was 596 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:56,569 S10: redeeming and restoring for Mark. You know, you asked earlier 597 00:34:56,610 --> 00:35:00,170 S10: what made the difference for him. It was surrender. He 598 00:35:00,170 --> 00:35:04,210 S10: had argued with God. All of the all of ever 599 00:35:04,210 --> 00:35:07,529 S10: since he had become a believer. And finally, when he 600 00:35:07,530 --> 00:35:10,649 S10: made his U-turn, he surrendered and said, God, I'm going 601 00:35:10,690 --> 00:35:13,730 S10: to do it your way. As he learned to walk 602 00:35:13,730 --> 00:35:18,049 S10: that out every day, surrendered like there was sometimes the 603 00:35:18,050 --> 00:35:21,050 S10: battle between the flesh and the spirit inside of him. 604 00:35:21,330 --> 00:35:25,010 S10: And so all of that together, we began to put 605 00:35:25,010 --> 00:35:30,489 S10: in place rhythms of connection. We put guardrails in place 606 00:35:30,489 --> 00:35:34,610 S10: to protect our marriage. And I will tell you today 607 00:35:34,930 --> 00:35:40,009 S10: we have a much better marriage than we ever had before. 608 00:35:40,290 --> 00:35:42,810 S10: And that's why we call it. That's why we call 609 00:35:42,810 --> 00:35:46,730 S10: our ministry marriage 2.0 ministries, because we have a 2.0 marriage. 610 00:35:47,170 --> 00:35:51,330 S10: You can restore trust. It can be better than it 611 00:35:51,330 --> 00:35:56,460 S10: was before. If you have two people willing to do 612 00:35:56,460 --> 00:35:59,900 S10: the work and willing to let Jesus lead their hearts. 613 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:03,700 S3: Now, Jill, this isn't just for the couple that's been 614 00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:06,940 S3: rocked by infidelity or something major. I mean, we talk 615 00:36:06,980 --> 00:36:10,900 S3: about this all the time, that there's many, many couples, 616 00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:13,859 S3: many married couples in the church who've settled for what 617 00:36:13,860 --> 00:36:17,100 S3: Carl likes to say glorified roommates. They're kind of committed. 618 00:36:17,140 --> 00:36:20,100 S3: Neither one of them's going anywhere. They've checked that box. 619 00:36:20,100 --> 00:36:23,860 S3: But everything else is kind of. They're doing their own thing. They're. 620 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:27,580 S3: They're married, but they're certainly not living an abundant life 621 00:36:27,580 --> 00:36:31,700 S3: in marriage. Speak to that person. Listening. So there's no infidelity. 622 00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:35,259 S3: There's no major blow up, but we just don't even 623 00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:36,299 S3: really talk anymore. 624 00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:41,700 S10: And that's very common. We see that as well. And 625 00:36:41,980 --> 00:36:46,259 S10: oftentimes what happened there though is see, we associate the 626 00:36:46,260 --> 00:36:52,080 S10: words broken trust with something like infidelity or pornography. But 627 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:57,000 S10: broken trust happens each and every day in little ways. 628 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,359 S10: When you know you make a bid for connection and 629 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,240 S10: your partner doesn't respond when you reach out and say, hey, 630 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,120 S10: you know, we haven't gone on a date in a 631 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,560 S10: long time, and the other person goes, I don't know 632 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,399 S10: when when we could ever possibly add a date into 633 00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:21,120 S10: our crazy schedule. Like those moments break trust. And so 634 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,680 S10: for the person listening, you know, a lot of times 635 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,600 S10: they might be going, yep, my spouse has done that. 636 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,399 S10: And I would ask you I would ask you, can 637 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:33,840 S10: you think about when you've done that, when you've unknowingly 638 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,880 S10: done that, when your partner has made some sort of 639 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,680 S10: a desire for connection or even the tiniest, uh, communication 640 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,880 S10: for connection, and you have dismissed that or minimized that. 641 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,609 S10: We do that all the time. And so we can 642 00:37:49,610 --> 00:37:53,970 S10: start to turn things around when we become faithful in 643 00:37:53,969 --> 00:37:59,290 S10: the little things. Sometimes they're not convenient. Sometimes they are 644 00:37:59,290 --> 00:38:02,610 S10: not convenient. It's not easy. Like when my husband walks 645 00:38:02,610 --> 00:38:05,450 S10: in and I'm in the middle of doing something on 646 00:38:05,450 --> 00:38:08,330 S10: my computer. Maybe I'm typing an email and I've already 647 00:38:08,330 --> 00:38:10,489 S10: had two phone calls and he walks in and he's 648 00:38:10,489 --> 00:38:14,450 S10: the third interruption. Right. That's not convenient for me to 649 00:38:14,489 --> 00:38:19,410 S10: stop and turn and look at him. But that is 650 00:38:19,410 --> 00:38:23,370 S10: going to build his trust, and it's going to let 651 00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:26,810 S10: him know you're important to me. Those are the ways 652 00:38:26,810 --> 00:38:29,570 S10: that we can make a difference each and every day. 653 00:38:29,810 --> 00:38:33,010 S10: And we can display faithfulness over convenience. 654 00:38:33,130 --> 00:38:35,850 S1: Love it, love it, love it. Okay. You get one 655 00:38:35,850 --> 00:38:38,250 S1: final word because I'm thinking about single people out there 656 00:38:38,250 --> 00:38:41,570 S1: right now. Some are looking for perfection. Stop doing that. 657 00:38:42,210 --> 00:38:46,050 S1: But what are we looking for? There are a couple 658 00:38:46,090 --> 00:38:50,100 S1: of key components that makes this person worthy of walking 659 00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:51,140 S1: down an aisle with. 660 00:38:51,580 --> 00:38:57,900 S10: Yes. Well, first, you're looking for truly surrendered to Christ. Um, 661 00:38:58,100 --> 00:39:01,419 S10: not just a church goer. You're looking for somebody that 662 00:39:01,420 --> 00:39:06,220 S10: says Jesus is the leader of my life. And you're 663 00:39:06,219 --> 00:39:10,259 S10: also looking for integrity. And and that is that the 664 00:39:10,260 --> 00:39:12,580 S10: person is the same on the, you know, in all 665 00:39:12,580 --> 00:39:18,180 S10: different settings. And then I would also say compassion and 666 00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:22,580 S10: sensitivity because that's what helps us to be good listeners. 667 00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:24,940 S10: Now what I will tell you is, I mean, I'm 668 00:39:24,940 --> 00:39:27,780 S10: going to say the same thing. There are no perfect 669 00:39:27,940 --> 00:39:32,140 S10: partners out there, but there are partners that are allowing 670 00:39:32,140 --> 00:39:35,900 S10: God to perfect them. What you're looking for. 671 00:39:36,660 --> 00:39:39,860 S1: Boom. That's all I can say. Ali, what do you got? 672 00:39:39,900 --> 00:39:42,940 S3: Our guest, Jill Savage. If you want more, just text. Perfect. 673 00:39:42,980 --> 00:39:48,070 S3: 805 55578998. The book is called No More Perfect Marriages. 674 00:39:48,070 --> 00:39:51,830 S3: Text perfect to 800 555 7898. 675 00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:54,910 S6: Your shot of hope to help you through the day. 676 00:39:55,230 --> 00:39:58,310 S6: This is Carl and crew on Moody Radio. 677 00:39:58,350 --> 00:40:02,469 S1: Well, sometimes freedom is running free and wild. But every 678 00:40:02,469 --> 00:40:04,190 S1: once in a while, here's what you got to do. 679 00:40:04,350 --> 00:40:06,469 S1: You got to get yourself out of the doghouse in 680 00:40:06,469 --> 00:40:08,030 S1: order to run free and wild. 681 00:40:08,590 --> 00:40:09,990 S3: Uh, is this a blaze metaphor. 682 00:40:09,989 --> 00:40:10,509 S1: Or are we talking. 683 00:40:10,510 --> 00:40:10,710 S3: About. 684 00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:13,750 S1: Something else? No, no, this it's a it's a dog metaphor. 685 00:40:13,790 --> 00:40:16,109 S1: Ain't no doubt about it. But I'm just wanting to 686 00:40:16,110 --> 00:40:18,950 S1: warn all men on this Freedom Friday. Get your bride 687 00:40:18,989 --> 00:40:23,390 S1: a little something, okay? Because you can't have freedom. Not 688 00:40:23,390 --> 00:40:26,270 S1: real freedom. Yeah. And if you're in the doghouse. 689 00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:28,469 S2: If you're doing it on Amazon, you better get, uh, 690 00:40:28,510 --> 00:40:31,109 S2: same day shipping or you better go down to the 691 00:40:31,110 --> 00:40:32,030 S2: target or something. 692 00:40:32,070 --> 00:40:35,750 S1: I'm just saying, I don't want any dudes in the 693 00:40:35,750 --> 00:40:39,310 S1: boom crew being in the doghouse, because we're gonna have 694 00:40:39,310 --> 00:40:42,839 S1: to come back here next week and sing. who let 695 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,440 S1: the dogs out? And that ain't going to be pretty. 696 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,480 S1: Ain't good. Yeah. 697 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:49,719 S3: Get the Valentine's Day gift. That's what they're trying to 698 00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:50,200 S3: tell you. 699 00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:51,360 S1: What's that? 700 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,239 S3: I said get the. 701 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:53,279 S1: Valentine's. 702 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:54,279 S3: Day gift. 703 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:55,480 S2: Okay. 704 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,400 S1: You're exactly right. That's what we're talking about. And you 705 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:04,120 S1: know what my experience is? It doesn't have to be 706 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,920 S1: a ton of stuff. It's just got to be heartfelt. Ally, 707 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,799 S1: give your consultation on this from a woman's perspective. 708 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,800 S3: Yeah, I think thoughtfulness. And we talked to Doctor Gary 709 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,800 S3: Chapman this week about love languages, knowing what it is 710 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,000 S3: that makes her happy. And, you know, for me, I've 711 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:23,040 S3: never been somebody who was that big on the kind 712 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,239 S3: of the holidays. So Valentine's Day to me, I'm kind 713 00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:25,920 S3: of like a. 714 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,040 S1: You crack me up. 715 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,279 S3: Now, I'm not suggesting if your wife is somebody who 716 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,319 S3: says Valentine's Day is super important, it's good to know that. 717 00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,560 S3: But my husband knows that for me, like something thoughtful 718 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,810 S3: on a Wednesday is more significant to me than something 719 00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:42,370 S3: forced on Valentine's Day. 720 00:41:42,410 --> 00:41:44,810 S1: That's good. I love that my brides the same way 721 00:41:44,810 --> 00:41:48,130 S1: in that in that category. Uh, that's that's sweet. And, 722 00:41:48,370 --> 00:41:51,850 S1: you know, talking about relationships, we're well aware this can 723 00:41:51,850 --> 00:41:54,250 S1: be tough. This can be tough, this can be a 724 00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:58,490 S1: tough conversation. But we are convinced that with the empty 725 00:41:58,530 --> 00:42:01,930 S1: tomb and the power of the risen Savior and the 726 00:42:01,969 --> 00:42:06,529 S1: infilling of the Holy Spirit, really God's presence and power, 727 00:42:06,570 --> 00:42:09,170 S1: living and dwelling within us can get us through anything, 728 00:42:09,170 --> 00:42:11,810 S1: even if we find ourselves in a situation right now 729 00:42:11,810 --> 00:42:15,089 S1: that we say, man, I don't feel loved, you are 730 00:42:15,090 --> 00:42:17,049 S1: by God. And those are not just words, are they? 731 00:42:17,410 --> 00:42:19,689 S3: No. And coming up, we've got a special guest. Dan 732 00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:22,130 S3: Seaborn joins us from winning at home. You're going to 733 00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:22,970 S3: love him. Coming up. 734 00:42:23,250 --> 00:42:27,890 S6: She's a choreographer extraordinaire and everything is Greek to her. 735 00:42:28,250 --> 00:42:32,050 S6: Super di is in the crew. It's Carl and crew 736 00:42:32,050 --> 00:42:33,370 S6: on Moody Radio. 737 00:42:33,410 --> 00:42:40,339 S1: You know, it's Freedom Friday, and I think If if 738 00:42:40,380 --> 00:42:42,859 S1: we're really honest with ourselves. Those that are married. By 739 00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:45,940 S1: the way, if you're married, I'm always pumped when pre-marriage 740 00:42:45,940 --> 00:42:49,260 S1: are here for segments like this because this is you 741 00:42:49,300 --> 00:42:52,500 S1: thinking now before you go. Car shopping is critical, man. 742 00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:55,500 S1: I'm just telling you, this is the time to be here. 743 00:42:55,660 --> 00:42:58,740 S1: But when we think about freedom, having freedom in marriage 744 00:42:58,780 --> 00:43:02,020 S1: is is one of the greatest freedoms going. 745 00:43:02,260 --> 00:43:04,620 S3: Let's get some insight on that. Because some people might go, 746 00:43:04,660 --> 00:43:07,500 S3: what do you mean freedom in marriage? Dan Seaborn, our 747 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:10,180 S3: guest right now, he's the founder of Winning at Home. 748 00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:13,180 S3: What is freedom in marriage to you? What does that mean? 749 00:43:13,420 --> 00:43:17,060 S11: As you guys are saying, that my mind runs to literally. 750 00:43:17,260 --> 00:43:20,020 S11: My wife and I were away with some couples this weekend, 751 00:43:20,020 --> 00:43:23,620 S11: and I said to them, When Jane and I first 752 00:43:23,620 --> 00:43:27,180 S11: got married, I did not give freedom to her, with 753 00:43:27,180 --> 00:43:29,700 S11: her thinking, with what she would like to do with 754 00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:32,259 S11: different things on her mind. I tried to control all 755 00:43:32,260 --> 00:43:34,860 S11: that stuff because I thought I knew what was best. 756 00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:37,110 S1: Hey, hold on, hold on. We went to the same 757 00:43:37,110 --> 00:43:40,109 S1: school and didn't know it. Dan? Yeah. You know what 758 00:43:40,110 --> 00:43:44,190 S1: it's called? The school of dumb. Dumb? That's what that was. 759 00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:47,110 S11: It totally is. And I even said to these people 760 00:43:47,110 --> 00:43:49,669 S11: we were talking to, I said to them, Jane's been 761 00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:53,550 S11: married to three different husbands over these 40 years. And 762 00:43:53,550 --> 00:43:56,750 S11: she likes the third version way better than the other ones. 763 00:43:56,750 --> 00:43:58,990 S11: And so maybe you can relate to that, too. Carl. 764 00:43:59,030 --> 00:44:02,430 S1: I can man. How, how how do we you know, 765 00:44:02,469 --> 00:44:05,150 S1: that's honest and that's vulnerable. What did that look like 766 00:44:05,150 --> 00:44:07,990 S1: for you? I mean, it's not funny, is it, dude? 767 00:44:08,550 --> 00:44:11,830 S11: No, it's not, but it's realizing. Are we going to 768 00:44:11,830 --> 00:44:14,270 S11: finish like this? Are we going to finish arguing all 769 00:44:14,270 --> 00:44:16,350 S11: the time? Are we going to finish our life together? 770 00:44:16,350 --> 00:44:18,750 S11: Just disagreeing. Are we going to end up getting divorced 771 00:44:18,750 --> 00:44:22,550 S11: like friends of mine who've been married 34 years? Dude, no, no, 772 00:44:22,670 --> 00:44:24,750 S11: I'm not going to allow that to be one of 773 00:44:24,750 --> 00:44:28,230 S11: the options I pursue. And so something's got to change. 774 00:44:28,230 --> 00:44:30,270 S11: We had a counselor here. His name was Jim, worked 775 00:44:30,270 --> 00:44:33,910 S11: with us for 30 years, and he was dying of cancer. 776 00:44:33,910 --> 00:44:36,640 S11: And on his deathbed, I was sitting by his bedside 777 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,680 S11: and I said, I said to him, Jim, give me 778 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:41,359 S11: one final thought. This is the final thing you want 779 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:43,600 S11: to put in my head. And he said this, Dan, 780 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,200 S11: always remember, if nothing changes, nothing changes. That's what he said. 781 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,239 S11: And I was like, wait, Jim, say that again. He goes, 782 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:54,080 S11: if nothing changes, nothing changes. In other words, those of 783 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,080 S11: you listening today, maybe you're weeks into your marriage, maybe 784 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,120 S11: you're years in and you have already a habit, a 785 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,839 S11: floor that you go, man, this this stinks. This is 786 00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,760 S11: hurting us. Well, if nothing changes, if you don't break 787 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,120 S11: some of the habits that you're doing right now, you're 788 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,680 S11: going to live that way the rest of your life. 789 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,520 S11: So for me, it was facing that and going, I 790 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:13,799 S11: got to do something different. 791 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,600 S3: Dan Seaborn, our guest right now from winning at home. 792 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,560 S3: You know, when you talk about some of those habits, 793 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,080 S3: it's kind of like that grooved path where you can 794 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,280 S3: fight against it, but it's like that car always finds 795 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,759 S3: its way into those tracks that have been grooved over time. 796 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,319 S3: What do you what do you say to couples that 797 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:33,290 S3: kind of are stuck in those cycles. 798 00:45:34,170 --> 00:45:36,290 S11: Well, you're so right there, Ali. You know, I live 799 00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:38,850 S11: in Michigan, so we have a lot of snow here. 800 00:45:38,850 --> 00:45:41,049 S11: And I tell people all the time, most of us, 801 00:45:41,050 --> 00:45:42,890 S11: when we go out to walk in snow, we take 802 00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:46,130 S11: the path that everybody else has walked in. And sometimes 803 00:45:46,130 --> 00:45:48,450 S11: you have to go establish a new path. You're the 804 00:45:48,450 --> 00:45:51,330 S11: first one to put your feet or feet. Put your 805 00:45:51,330 --> 00:45:53,770 S11: feet down in that foot deep snow. You're the first 806 00:45:53,770 --> 00:45:56,010 S11: one and that is hard to want to do that. 807 00:45:56,010 --> 00:45:59,530 S11: So today for somebody listening, I would say to you, 808 00:45:59,810 --> 00:46:02,850 S11: go give it a try. Put the foot in there 809 00:46:03,010 --> 00:46:05,770 S11: and just go, okay, I can do this. I can 810 00:46:05,770 --> 00:46:08,129 S11: work toward this. It's kind of like when we teach 811 00:46:08,130 --> 00:46:10,450 S11: our kids when they're little, we say to them, go 812 00:46:10,450 --> 00:46:12,770 S11: out there and try on the basketball court, go out 813 00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:15,450 S11: there and try to learn to play piano. Same thing 814 00:46:15,450 --> 00:46:18,009 S11: with us as adults. We got to sometimes go, I've 815 00:46:18,010 --> 00:46:20,250 S11: got to try this. And a good counselor, a good 816 00:46:20,250 --> 00:46:22,930 S11: pastor can give you a step that you might be 817 00:46:22,969 --> 00:46:24,529 S11: able to take in that direction. 818 00:46:24,730 --> 00:46:27,450 S3: So coming up, let's make this practical. Dan Seaborn, our 819 00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:30,730 S3: guest right now. Do you remember the time you first 820 00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:34,060 S3: spotted that girl or that guy, and you laid eyes 821 00:46:34,060 --> 00:46:37,060 S3: on them and you thought that one. I want to 822 00:46:37,060 --> 00:46:39,020 S3: get to know a little bit better. What about when 823 00:46:39,020 --> 00:46:42,900 S3: you're decades into it and that attraction maybe doesn't come 824 00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:45,620 S3: as easily. What then? Dan Seaborn coming up here on 825 00:46:45,620 --> 00:46:46,300 S3: Karlyn crew. 826 00:46:47,140 --> 00:46:51,100 S6: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl 827 00:46:51,100 --> 00:46:51,740 S6: and crew. 828 00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:56,820 S1: So when we were dating, I could say maybe it 829 00:46:57,860 --> 00:47:00,299 S1: a little bit of abs. Then it went to slabs 830 00:47:00,980 --> 00:47:03,739 S1: and then it starts to go to slabs. Does it matter? 831 00:47:04,860 --> 00:47:07,540 S1: Does what we're looking at matter? Dan Simmons, our guest 832 00:47:07,540 --> 00:47:10,260 S1: right now, he's got a great book out called Winning 833 00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:14,820 S1: at Home. You know Physical attraction. It's a wild topic 834 00:47:14,820 --> 00:47:19,660 S1: because and I think a lot of times women feel like, 835 00:47:19,700 --> 00:47:23,219 S1: oh my goodness, men are driven by this. What's your perspective? 836 00:47:23,260 --> 00:47:25,940 S1: A lot of years of working with marriages in the trenches. 837 00:47:25,940 --> 00:47:28,140 S1: What do you say about physical attraction? 838 00:47:28,980 --> 00:47:32,190 S11: Well, it's such a huge deal and many of us, 839 00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:34,989 S11: we honestly give up on it and that's just the 840 00:47:34,989 --> 00:47:37,950 S11: wrong approach. That's the wrong idea. The other Jane said 841 00:47:37,950 --> 00:47:39,310 S11: to me the other day, y'all need to first of 842 00:47:39,310 --> 00:47:41,989 S11: all know I'm bald, okay? I'm totally bald. When Jane 843 00:47:41,989 --> 00:47:44,350 S11: and I first got married, I had a massive head 844 00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:46,589 S11: of hair. So she said to me the other day, 845 00:47:46,590 --> 00:47:48,469 S11: we were just talking and she said, why don't you 846 00:47:48,469 --> 00:47:50,630 S11: let your hair grow out like you used to? And 847 00:47:50,630 --> 00:47:53,029 S11: I and I said, yeah, why don't I walk on 848 00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:56,110 S11: water right after that? I mean, it's just not possible. 849 00:47:56,510 --> 00:47:59,390 S11: That's not going to happen in the real world because 850 00:47:59,390 --> 00:48:02,270 S11: I can't grow hair like I used to. But here's 851 00:48:02,270 --> 00:48:07,230 S11: the deal. What I can do is take care of myself, 852 00:48:07,270 --> 00:48:10,189 S11: be as fresh as I was on a date night 853 00:48:10,190 --> 00:48:12,509 S11: when I first met Jane. I remember pulling up to 854 00:48:12,510 --> 00:48:15,189 S11: her little trailer where she lived. I'd pop a mint 855 00:48:15,190 --> 00:48:17,590 S11: in my mouth. I'd do all that stuff. And here, 856 00:48:17,590 --> 00:48:20,950 S11: 43 years later, it's really easy to walk up to 857 00:48:20,989 --> 00:48:24,030 S11: her with dragon breath and not be thinking about that stuff. 858 00:48:24,590 --> 00:48:26,670 S12: And, and and I think. 859 00:48:26,670 --> 00:48:30,200 S11: That we miss, we make. We have a big miss 860 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,200 S11: when we don't go. You know what? This one little 861 00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,520 S11: idea of putting a mint in my mouth, maybe. Hey, guys, 862 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,880 S11: grab one of those little, you know, hair clip things 863 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,160 S11: that cut the hair out of your ears. Just a 864 00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:45,120 S11: tip for some of you, because those little things about 865 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:48,359 S11: physical appearance can make a big difference. And here's how 866 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,719 S11: I know that I have a buddy who, uh, him 867 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,880 S11: and his wife got divorced. And guess where the first 868 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,920 S11: place he headed was? Guess where it was the gym, 869 00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,360 S11: of course, because he wanted to get in better shape 870 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,600 S11: and he got very upset at me because I said 871 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,960 S11: to him, I said, hey, man, I just want to 872 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:06,040 S11: point out to you that if you would have done 873 00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:09,040 S11: this before, it might have made your wife more attractive 874 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,439 S11: to you. So I'm just really puzzled why you would 875 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,839 S11: go to the gym now after your divorce. You should 876 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,200 S11: have been going to the gym before to make sure 877 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,840 S11: you keep that marriage strong. He didn't like it, but 878 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:23,000 S11: what's beautiful is guess what? They ended up getting married again. 879 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,009 S11: Second marriage to the same woman. God himself in better shape. 880 00:49:27,050 --> 00:49:30,129 S11: She loved that. And they got connected again. I love it. 881 00:49:30,570 --> 00:49:33,170 S3: Dan Seaborn, our guest right now, he is the founder 882 00:49:33,170 --> 00:49:37,129 S3: of Winning at Home. Now when you start talking about attraction, 883 00:49:37,130 --> 00:49:40,169 S3: this can get a little dicey. A little dicey, because 884 00:49:40,170 --> 00:49:44,370 S3: if we're just talking about purely the physical, then you 885 00:49:44,370 --> 00:49:48,170 S3: can look anywhere and find an attractive person. And I 886 00:49:48,170 --> 00:49:50,370 S3: don't have to go too far down that road to 887 00:49:50,410 --> 00:49:53,530 S3: know how that leads. If you're purely looking for attraction. 888 00:49:53,730 --> 00:49:56,890 S3: What can we do for each other as Christ followers 889 00:49:56,890 --> 00:50:00,689 S3: in a committed, godly marriage in terms of attraction that 890 00:50:00,690 --> 00:50:03,489 S3: we're not going to find anywhere else? 891 00:50:04,290 --> 00:50:07,970 S11: You can ask your spouse, hey babe, what's something that 892 00:50:07,969 --> 00:50:10,730 S11: makes me feel attractive to you? Because I want to 893 00:50:10,730 --> 00:50:13,009 S11: make that a priority in my life, and I want 894 00:50:13,050 --> 00:50:15,730 S11: to make sure, you know you're important to me. And 895 00:50:15,730 --> 00:50:17,609 S11: so if you tell me something that you look at 896 00:50:17,610 --> 00:50:19,609 S11: me that I could do better, I want to try 897 00:50:19,610 --> 00:50:21,610 S11: to do that for you because you matter to me. 898 00:50:21,610 --> 00:50:25,340 S11: And it's nothing to do with, uh, you know, you're right. 899 00:50:25,380 --> 00:50:28,580 S11: The physical will eventually pass away. But as long as 900 00:50:28,580 --> 00:50:32,300 S11: I'm here, from my perspective, based on what God's Word says, 901 00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:35,340 S11: we are given one body, one vessel to care for. 902 00:50:35,500 --> 00:50:38,020 S11: And I want my spouse to tell me, how can 903 00:50:38,020 --> 00:50:40,700 S11: I care for it better to make that meaningful to 904 00:50:40,700 --> 00:50:43,580 S11: you and what I do when I respond to her 905 00:50:43,580 --> 00:50:45,940 S11: when she says, Dan, can you do this for me? 906 00:50:45,980 --> 00:50:49,219 S11: If I say yes, what she hears is, ah, you 907 00:50:49,219 --> 00:50:51,180 S11: love me with your actions. And I want to try 908 00:50:51,180 --> 00:50:53,540 S11: to do that for Jane because, yeah, you saw me today. 909 00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:56,620 S11: You'd be like, oh, you're looking older. Correct. That's part 910 00:50:56,620 --> 00:50:59,300 S11: of the deal. But some of the most beautiful things 911 00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:01,380 S11: I think I see is when couples have been married 912 00:51:01,420 --> 00:51:04,140 S11: a long time together, and you still see they have 913 00:51:04,140 --> 00:51:07,700 S11: that physical little, little beam in their eye, that little 914 00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:10,460 S11: joy with each other. How beautiful is that? So let's 915 00:51:10,460 --> 00:51:12,500 S11: work to try to do that because it's really cool. 916 00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:16,820 S1: Yeah. Dan and you know what? I think we spiritualize this, um, 917 00:51:16,860 --> 00:51:20,100 S1: to a point that's too destructive. And we we kind 918 00:51:20,140 --> 00:51:23,550 S1: of veer away from this topic around here because physical 919 00:51:23,550 --> 00:51:27,350 S1: training is of some value, but spiritual much. But we 920 00:51:27,350 --> 00:51:32,469 S1: oftentimes forget it's of some value. It's a. 921 00:51:32,469 --> 00:51:32,950 S12: Value. 922 00:51:33,430 --> 00:51:36,550 S11: Let's remember, let's remember. It's why we first were attracted 923 00:51:36,550 --> 00:51:39,109 S11: in the first place. So let's work and stay true 924 00:51:39,110 --> 00:51:41,710 S11: to that now. We haven't taken time and maybe we'll 925 00:51:41,710 --> 00:51:44,870 S11: do it sometime on the show. Talking about spiritual intimacy. 926 00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:47,470 S11: It's what I travel the country and talk about. And 927 00:51:47,469 --> 00:51:50,629 S11: it's way more important, way more valuable. I'm all in 928 00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:52,670 S11: with you. And I talk about praying with your spouse. 929 00:51:52,670 --> 00:51:55,670 S11: It's the biggest thing I talk about. But I won't 930 00:51:55,710 --> 00:51:58,430 S11: neglect the physical part either, because it's a part of 931 00:51:58,430 --> 00:51:59,350 S11: our humanity. 932 00:51:59,390 --> 00:52:03,149 S1: Yeah. Quick follow up there. Um, so an interesting thing, Dan, 933 00:52:03,150 --> 00:52:06,750 S1: is that my bride is focused on my physicality, but 934 00:52:06,790 --> 00:52:10,870 S1: it's it's deeper than just surface stuff. She genuinely wants 935 00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:13,350 S1: me to be around for the long haul. So she's 936 00:52:13,350 --> 00:52:17,870 S1: shoving birdseed down my mouth, uh, for the purpose of longevity, 937 00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:21,480 S1: which that's kind of a cool thing about a bride 938 00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:23,879 S1: that I've been married to for 38 years, isn't it? 939 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,319 S11: I absolutely love it. And you just made the whole 940 00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,520 S11: point we're trying to make with everything we're sharing. She 941 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,240 S11: cares about you and she cares about your physical being. 942 00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:38,280 S11: How beautiful is that? I mean, let's let's just be honest. 943 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,759 S11: There are some people probably going to let him go. 944 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:41,359 S11: Doesn't matter. 945 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:47,759 S12: Anymore. And I don't want that. I don't. He's breathing. 946 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:48,799 S12: He's breathing. 947 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,800 S1: Deeply and. Okay. It's all right. 948 00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:52,799 S12: Exactly, exactly. 949 00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,439 S11: And the reality is, you know, we need to make 950 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:57,600 S11: sure we're doing the best for our spouse. And that's 951 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:59,280 S11: what your wife is asking of you. 952 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:04,120 S3: Dan Seaborn, if you want more resources on his website, 953 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,840 S3: winning at home. There are some great articles. I linked 954 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,040 S3: one there for you, specifically the work of marriage as 955 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:13,960 S3: we're leading up to Valentine's Day. It's a good read. 956 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:19,730 S3: Just text winning to 800 555 78. 98. Text winning 957 00:53:19,930 --> 00:53:22,930 S3: to 800 555 7898. 958 00:53:23,290 --> 00:53:26,370 S6: He's a sports fanatic with a stand for anything you 959 00:53:26,370 --> 00:53:30,610 S6: can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's 960 00:53:30,610 --> 00:53:32,850 S6: curling crew on Moody Radio. 961 00:53:33,090 --> 00:53:36,370 S1: It's Freedom Friday, and one of the greatest freeing things 962 00:53:36,370 --> 00:53:40,570 S1: that I love is give me some data points. There's 963 00:53:40,610 --> 00:53:42,170 S1: freedom and data points for me. 964 00:53:42,210 --> 00:53:44,170 S2: Was there what freedom is there in data? 965 00:53:44,210 --> 00:53:48,810 S1: Because I don't want ethereal thoughts and philosophies. I want 966 00:53:48,850 --> 00:53:51,969 S1: to know what's the real issues out there. Give me 967 00:53:51,969 --> 00:53:53,650 S1: some numbers. I'm that guy. 968 00:53:53,690 --> 00:53:55,089 S2: It can bring clarity to you. 969 00:53:55,130 --> 00:53:58,050 S1: Yeah. Does anyone else love numbers here? 970 00:53:58,090 --> 00:53:58,930 S2: I love numbers. 971 00:53:58,969 --> 00:54:01,490 S3: I probably don't love numbers as much as you do. 972 00:54:03,730 --> 00:54:05,049 S3: But here's here's the funny thing. 973 00:54:05,090 --> 00:54:05,770 S1: That's a fact. 974 00:54:05,810 --> 00:54:09,610 S3: I, I don't like the individual numbers, but I like 975 00:54:09,610 --> 00:54:14,330 S3: to see trends. So, Trent, you need numbers to give trends. 976 00:54:14,330 --> 00:54:17,300 S3: But like, I like to see bar graphs and line 977 00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:20,540 S3: charts where I can just watch how things move over 978 00:54:20,540 --> 00:54:23,740 S3: time rather than like, let me look at individual numbers. 979 00:54:25,180 --> 00:54:29,340 S1: Yeah. Alli's a trendsetter as well. So trends are her man. 980 00:54:29,380 --> 00:54:29,860 S1: I mean. 981 00:54:30,260 --> 00:54:33,220 S3: You think of me, you think of trends. Not according 982 00:54:33,260 --> 00:54:34,739 S3: to my teenage daughter. 983 00:54:35,060 --> 00:54:36,420 S1: Oh. No way. 984 00:54:36,660 --> 00:54:38,219 S2: Yeah. If you want to, if you want to get 985 00:54:38,260 --> 00:54:40,739 S2: knocked down a peg on anything, go ask a teenager. 986 00:54:40,980 --> 00:54:41,859 S2: I mean, if. 987 00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:44,060 S1: What you're doing is hip enough to become trendy. 988 00:54:44,100 --> 00:54:47,660 S3: Yeah, well, I bought a winter coat recently, and I 989 00:54:47,660 --> 00:54:49,779 S3: was like, what do you think of this coat? And 990 00:54:49,780 --> 00:54:52,259 S3: she actually was not happy about it because she said 991 00:54:52,260 --> 00:54:55,180 S3: it looked like a teenager's coat. She said one of 992 00:54:55,180 --> 00:54:58,540 S3: her basketball teammates has the same coat. It's like I'm 993 00:54:58,739 --> 00:55:01,779 S3: keeping it anyway. I like this coat, so maybe it's 994 00:55:01,780 --> 00:55:04,140 S3: a little too young for me. That's okay. I'm gonna 995 00:55:04,140 --> 00:55:04,820 S3: wear it anyway. 996 00:55:05,140 --> 00:55:08,900 S1: Great. All right, let's get some stats on marriage and family. 997 00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:11,100 S1: That's what we've been tackling all week here with Carl 998 00:55:11,100 --> 00:55:13,820 S1: and crew. Hang on. Buckle up. Get a swig of water. 999 00:55:13,820 --> 00:55:15,589 S1: Coming up. Shaunti feldhahn. 1000 00:55:16,150 --> 00:55:19,069 S6: You're listening to Carl and crew on Moody Radio. 1001 00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:22,390 S1: Well, on this Freedom Friday, sometimes the thing that gives 1002 00:55:22,390 --> 00:55:25,230 S1: you freedom is when the lights go on and you 1003 00:55:25,230 --> 00:55:28,069 S1: realize that's what I'm doing wrong. 1004 00:55:28,790 --> 00:55:32,710 S3: There are things that I've been missing or not seeing correctly. 1005 00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:36,109 S1: Yeah. And there's no one better for giving us the 1006 00:55:36,110 --> 00:55:39,470 S1: data points on how to get it right. Shaunti Feldman 1007 00:55:39,469 --> 00:55:42,149 S1: with us right now. Shante, thank you so much for 1008 00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:44,950 S1: ducking in here on this Freedom Friday, sister. 1009 00:55:44,989 --> 00:55:47,030 S13: Oh, absolutely. Delighted. 1010 00:55:47,070 --> 00:55:49,630 S1: Okay, let's break it down. Are you still doing research? 1011 00:55:49,630 --> 00:55:52,150 S1: You did it for years. Are you still getting data 1012 00:55:52,150 --> 00:55:55,190 S1: points for what makes a dynamic marriage? 1013 00:55:55,550 --> 00:55:58,870 S13: I am. It's been fascinating. The last few years. We 1014 00:55:58,870 --> 00:56:02,029 S13: did a big one on intimacy, intimacy and money. We 1015 00:56:02,030 --> 00:56:04,469 S13: just finished two big studies on those topics. 1016 00:56:04,670 --> 00:56:07,710 S1: Well, let's jump into intimacy first. What are you learning? 1017 00:56:07,910 --> 00:56:11,189 S13: One of the things that most people don't realize is 1018 00:56:11,190 --> 00:56:14,239 S13: getting in the way in their marriage in this particular 1019 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:18,360 S13: area is that we think if we're not connecting in, 1020 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,960 S13: like maybe some person wants a little bit more connection 1021 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,920 S13: than the other. Um, we don't realize it's not because 1022 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,080 S13: one person has a lower drive than the other. It's 1023 00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:32,080 S13: usually because we have different types of desire, and often 1024 00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,880 S13: there is something called initiating desire, which is the desire 1025 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,960 S13: to pursue it and to kind of think about it 1026 00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,960 S13: all the time and be ready at a moment's notice. 1027 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,400 S13: But 73% of women have a completely different type of desire. 1028 00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:50,239 S13: It's called receptive desire. And that works physiologically in the 1029 00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:54,520 S13: reverse order. Neither men or women know this. Like I 1030 00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,000 S13: didn't know this until I started all the research. We're 1031 00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,520 S13: literally you don't feel that same sense of hunger and 1032 00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,319 S13: you're deciding to get engaged. And once you do, then 1033 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,880 S13: you start feeling that sense of desire that your spouse 1034 00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,810 S13: may have felt, you know, ten minutes ago. And, it's like, oh, 1035 00:57:12,210 --> 00:57:16,490 S13: so like 73% of women are making a decision based 1036 00:57:16,490 --> 00:57:18,610 S13: on how their spouse has made them feel the rest 1037 00:57:18,610 --> 00:57:22,050 S13: of the day. It's really, really important to know this stuff. 1038 00:57:22,090 --> 00:57:26,050 S3: Shante Feldman, our guest right now, she's a best selling author, podcaster. 1039 00:57:26,210 --> 00:57:30,450 S3: She's a social researcher, received her graduate degree from Harvard, 1040 00:57:30,930 --> 00:57:33,490 S3: spent some time as an analyst on Wall Street, now 1041 00:57:33,490 --> 00:57:38,450 S3: applies her skills to investigating the life changing truths about relationships, 1042 00:57:38,450 --> 00:57:42,890 S3: helping relationships thrive. What are some other myths that need 1043 00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:47,010 S3: to be debunked when it comes to just our basic understanding? 1044 00:57:47,050 --> 00:57:50,730 S3: You debunked one on intimacy. What about the rest of 1045 00:57:50,730 --> 00:57:53,210 S3: married life? What are some common myths out there? 1046 00:57:53,450 --> 00:57:56,650 S13: Well, one of the most important ones that gets in 1047 00:57:56,650 --> 00:58:01,130 S13: the way of a lot of couples is that men are, like, 1048 00:58:01,170 --> 00:58:04,130 S13: super confident in themselves that need to be taken down 1049 00:58:04,130 --> 00:58:06,770 S13: a peg or two because they look so confident and 1050 00:58:06,770 --> 00:58:10,820 S13: that women are random. So a lot of men think, oh, 1051 00:58:10,860 --> 00:58:13,820 S13: I'm just never going to understand my wife, right? Like, 1052 00:58:13,900 --> 00:58:16,380 S13: you know, there's a part of her that's just a mystery. Like, 1053 00:58:16,420 --> 00:58:18,820 S13: it's I'm never going to be able to fully understand 1054 00:58:18,820 --> 00:58:22,940 S13: her because women. There's just something random. Well guess what? 1055 00:58:22,980 --> 00:58:25,580 S13: When you think that. Which is not true, by the way. 1056 00:58:25,620 --> 00:58:28,300 S13: Because I can prove that to you statistically. But when 1057 00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:31,420 S13: you think that. Guess what happens when you get confused, 1058 00:58:31,900 --> 00:58:35,420 S13: you're more likely to just think, well, it's that random 1059 00:58:35,420 --> 00:58:37,220 S13: thing I'm never going to understand. I'm going to go 1060 00:58:37,220 --> 00:58:39,980 S13: over here and like, work on the deck, you know? 1061 00:58:40,260 --> 00:58:44,300 S13: And as opposed to no, actually, women can be understood 1062 00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:47,740 S13: and systematized just like anybody else. And so I if 1063 00:58:47,740 --> 00:58:50,540 S13: I'm not understanding something, I'm going to press in. I'm 1064 00:58:50,540 --> 00:58:53,140 S13: going to actually like look for the answer because it's 1065 00:58:53,140 --> 00:58:57,380 S13: there somewhere, as opposed to checking out that one thing 1066 00:58:57,660 --> 00:59:01,420 S13: is a huge thing for most husbands to be aware of, 1067 00:59:01,860 --> 00:59:04,380 S13: and a huge thing for most wives to be aware of. 1068 00:59:04,460 --> 00:59:08,070 S13: The debunking the myth is that, Well, Carl, if I 1069 00:59:08,070 --> 00:59:11,630 S13: can just be honest, you guys look so confident in yourselves. 1070 00:59:11,790 --> 00:59:17,190 S13: We believe the mask that you've put on instead. We 1071 00:59:17,310 --> 00:59:21,270 S13: don't recognize that that is just a mask. And believe 1072 00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:25,910 S13: it or not, 85% of men on my survey said 1073 00:59:25,910 --> 00:59:30,510 S13: that mask is hiding a lot of self doubt, that 1074 00:59:30,510 --> 00:59:33,870 S13: there's an immense amount of self doubt running under the surface, 1075 00:59:33,870 --> 00:59:37,430 S13: and where maybe most women. The question in our heart 1076 00:59:37,430 --> 00:59:40,310 S13: and we found this statistically as well is like am 1077 00:59:40,310 --> 00:59:44,470 S13: I lovable? The question in a man's heart isn't really 1078 00:59:44,510 --> 00:59:47,430 S13: am I lovable for most men now? Some men, right? 1079 00:59:47,470 --> 00:59:50,790 S13: There's exceptions, but for most men, the question is, am 1080 00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:55,270 S13: I able? Do I measure up? And so they're always 1081 00:59:55,270 --> 00:59:57,550 S13: looking to answer the question am I any good at 1082 00:59:57,590 --> 01:00:00,870 S13: what I do? And so it's so easy for us 1083 01:00:00,870 --> 01:00:05,690 S13: as women to not recognize that inside that strong, confident 1084 01:00:05,690 --> 01:00:10,170 S13: looking husband is is a tender heart that just wants 1085 01:00:10,170 --> 01:00:11,370 S13: to do well for you. 1086 01:00:11,530 --> 01:00:15,010 S1: I love that this is actually important stuff. Shaunti Feldman, 1087 01:00:15,010 --> 01:00:19,530 S1: our guest right now, researcher analyst and has done such 1088 01:00:19,570 --> 01:00:22,770 S1: work in such great work for women only. For men 1089 01:00:22,770 --> 01:00:26,130 S1: only two books that just sold millions of copies a 1090 01:00:26,130 --> 01:00:29,930 S1: number of years ago. But she's keeping this beat going today. Uh, 1091 01:00:29,970 --> 01:00:33,530 S1: let's we gotta duck over to finances. Finances is a 1092 01:00:33,650 --> 01:00:36,810 S1: huge thing. What have you learned in your research? 1093 01:00:37,330 --> 01:00:40,050 S13: Well, it usually comes down to one of the main 1094 01:00:40,050 --> 01:00:44,169 S13: things that causes the the friction, right? Like the annoyance, 1095 01:00:44,170 --> 01:00:47,490 S13: the frustration on a day to day level is that 1096 01:00:47,490 --> 01:00:51,690 S13: we don't realize that we're not valuing what our spouse 1097 01:00:51,730 --> 01:00:55,290 S13: is valuing. It's not a surprise that, like, hey, I'm 1098 01:00:55,290 --> 01:00:58,250 S13: married to a different person, right? But for some reason, 1099 01:00:58,250 --> 01:01:02,250 S13: we don't translate that in our head. And so therefore, 1100 01:01:02,290 --> 01:01:06,460 S13: this different person that I'm married to. There is something 1101 01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:12,500 S13: that they really strongly value that I just don't think matters. 1102 01:01:12,700 --> 01:01:15,020 S13: And so it's like, this is the way you should 1103 01:01:15,060 --> 01:01:17,979 S13: handle money. And in your head it's like everybody's got 1104 01:01:17,980 --> 01:01:20,500 S13: their should. Like, of course, that's just the way you 1105 01:01:20,500 --> 01:01:22,900 S13: do it. Like of course you just save a certain 1106 01:01:22,900 --> 01:01:25,340 S13: amount every month. It's like, of course, you know, we've 1107 01:01:25,340 --> 01:01:27,260 S13: been working so hard, we should save up and take 1108 01:01:27,260 --> 01:01:30,140 S13: the vacation so that we can get away and be 1109 01:01:30,140 --> 01:01:33,180 S13: gone for a week or two and like, really unplug. 1110 01:01:33,220 --> 01:01:35,740 S13: Of course, that's what we should do, as opposed to 1111 01:01:35,780 --> 01:01:38,020 S13: the other person who's like, of course we should spend 1112 01:01:38,020 --> 01:01:41,220 S13: our money. We're working so hard, we should connect every 1113 01:01:41,220 --> 01:01:43,740 S13: two weeks for a really nice date night. Like, that's 1114 01:01:43,740 --> 01:01:46,020 S13: the right thing that we should do. And it's like 1115 01:01:46,060 --> 01:01:49,140 S13: neither of those is wrong or right, but we don't 1116 01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:54,420 S13: recognize that there's a value underneath that that's really important. 1117 01:01:54,420 --> 01:01:54,940 S1: To us. 1118 01:01:55,140 --> 01:01:57,220 S13: And to our spouse. Yep, exactly. 1119 01:01:57,540 --> 01:02:02,310 S3: My guess is, Shanti, that that extends beyond finances. mean, 1120 01:02:02,510 --> 01:02:05,030 S3: I think of Doctor Gary Chapman and the Love languages. 1121 01:02:05,030 --> 01:02:08,470 S3: It's easy to miss each other when we are valuing 1122 01:02:08,470 --> 01:02:09,910 S3: different things, right? 1123 01:02:10,110 --> 01:02:12,710 S13: Oh for sure. This is one of the things that 1124 01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:14,910 S13: you see everywhere. You see it in parenting. You see 1125 01:02:14,910 --> 01:02:19,110 S13: it everywhere. Like classic example that we've found in our 1126 01:02:19,310 --> 01:02:21,990 S13: both in our studies of men and women and some 1127 01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:24,430 S13: of the early studies and some of the later ones 1128 01:02:24,430 --> 01:02:29,350 S13: as well, that like, for example, that it's around 80% 1129 01:02:29,350 --> 01:02:34,830 S13: of women that they really value, that their children be safe, obviously. Right. 1130 01:02:34,830 --> 01:02:37,229 S13: Like every mom listening to this is like, yeah, no duh. 1131 01:02:37,270 --> 01:02:39,950 S13: Like that's what why is that surprising? 1132 01:02:40,270 --> 01:02:43,030 S1: But Allie's top of that list, by the way. I 1133 01:02:43,030 --> 01:02:45,350 S1: just want to I just want to say that Allie's 1134 01:02:45,350 --> 01:02:47,750 S1: right up there. I smiled immediately. 1135 01:02:48,110 --> 01:02:50,830 S13: There you go. Absolutely. Where it's like, you know, you've 1136 01:02:50,830 --> 01:02:53,070 S13: got a little like a little kid, and you're like, 1137 01:02:53,110 --> 01:02:55,990 S13: following them around, like, you know, hey, baby. Oh, you know, 1138 01:02:56,030 --> 01:02:59,110 S13: you hurt yourself. It's okay. I'm right here. Whereas a 1139 01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:03,680 S13: dad is more likely to value building a sense of adventure, 1140 01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:09,160 S13: building independence, building grit where hey, go run, fly like you, 1141 01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:11,720 S13: scrape your knee and suck it up and you get 1142 01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:15,720 S13: back up. Yeah. And neither of those is right or wrong. 1143 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,640 S13: The anthropologists have actually found that, on average, all over 1144 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,880 S13: the world, a father will let a toddler get three 1145 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,520 S13: times further away from them than a mom will. And again, 1146 01:03:27,560 --> 01:03:31,240 S13: neither of those is right or wrong. We're just different. 1147 01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:34,960 S1: Yeah. That is so good. Shanti. Um. There's a lot 1148 01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,560 S1: of people are. We've been hitting this this week, and 1149 01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,000 S1: it's tough. And it happens a lot in Christian homes. 1150 01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:44,400 S1: And I've got air quotes there because. And I'm talking 1151 01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,760 S1: about people that are churched and some may not be 1152 01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:50,280 S1: truly born again. That's another data point. I'd love to 1153 01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,000 S1: talk with you about another time. But there's there's a 1154 01:03:54,000 --> 01:04:01,010 S1: hunger to connect Relationally. Husband, wife. Even with kids. What 1155 01:04:01,010 --> 01:04:04,890 S1: do data points say? Does it say anything about this 1156 01:04:04,890 --> 01:04:07,730 S1: is how we start? Because on this Freedom Friday, we 1157 01:04:07,730 --> 01:04:11,169 S1: want to give just some first steps. Does data reveal 1158 01:04:11,610 --> 01:04:13,970 S1: this is what we do to start? What do you 1159 01:04:13,970 --> 01:04:15,050 S1: say it does? 1160 01:04:15,090 --> 01:04:17,810 S13: Yes. There are several things that are really critical. I'm 1161 01:04:17,810 --> 01:04:20,530 S13: just going to mention two of them. So this is 1162 01:04:20,530 --> 01:04:24,290 S13: going to sound way too basic and it's not too basic. 1163 01:04:24,330 --> 01:04:26,970 S13: This is one of the key things that most people 1164 01:04:26,970 --> 01:04:31,610 S13: miss when you are maybe at odds. Maybe you started 1165 01:04:31,610 --> 01:04:35,050 S13: to feel like roommates, and maybe you're going 100 different 1166 01:04:35,050 --> 01:04:37,330 S13: directions with the kids and the activities. I'm raising my 1167 01:04:37,330 --> 01:04:42,090 S13: hand here. It's really easy to get disconnected. The problem is, 1168 01:04:42,130 --> 01:04:45,130 S13: is when you get disconnected, you start getting annoyed with 1169 01:04:45,130 --> 01:04:49,770 S13: each other. It's easy to actually start avoiding that time together, 1170 01:04:50,170 --> 01:04:52,930 S13: because that way you're avoiding the conflict, right? Well, it 1171 01:04:52,930 --> 01:04:55,940 S13: turns out that the happiest couples we actually did a 1172 01:04:55,940 --> 01:04:59,260 S13: study of what makes the happiest couple so happy. Like, 1173 01:04:59,300 --> 01:05:03,060 S13: what are their secrets? What do they do differently? And 1174 01:05:03,060 --> 01:05:06,260 S13: one of the things that moved many people from that 1175 01:05:06,260 --> 01:05:10,780 S13: place of discontent or even really kind of destructive place 1176 01:05:10,780 --> 01:05:14,900 S13: in the relationship to really being extremely happy in their marriage, 1177 01:05:15,340 --> 01:05:19,740 S13: is that they just spent extra time together. They just 1178 01:05:19,780 --> 01:05:22,580 S13: hung out. They this wasn't, oh, you have to do 1179 01:05:22,580 --> 01:05:24,740 S13: a date night every week. I mean, there's nothing wrong 1180 01:05:24,740 --> 01:05:28,460 S13: with a date night. That's great. There was nothing like, oh, 1181 01:05:28,580 --> 01:05:32,140 S13: let's do a Bible study together. Again, nothing wrong with that, 1182 01:05:32,140 --> 01:05:35,540 S13: but just hanging out. Because here's what we found is 1183 01:05:35,540 --> 01:05:39,140 S13: that these couples, first and foremost, the happiest couples, they 1184 01:05:39,180 --> 01:05:42,180 S13: had learned to treat each other first and foremost like 1185 01:05:42,180 --> 01:05:46,500 S13: best friends. And the most important predictor of friendship is 1186 01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:51,020 S13: not shared interests or similar temperaments or, you know, those 1187 01:05:51,020 --> 01:05:54,710 S13: are all like down there. The primary predictor of friendship 1188 01:05:54,710 --> 01:05:58,070 S13: is geographic proximity. You're the best friends with the people 1189 01:05:58,070 --> 01:05:59,830 S13: that you see the most often, and you hang out 1190 01:05:59,830 --> 01:06:02,910 S13: with the most. And so that's one of the key 1191 01:06:02,910 --> 01:06:05,590 S13: things that will flip the switch on. A lot of 1192 01:06:05,590 --> 01:06:08,910 S13: couples is just go to the grocery store together, go 1193 01:06:08,910 --> 01:06:12,230 S13: to Home Depot together, like go do a hobby together. 1194 01:06:12,270 --> 01:06:15,470 S13: I sit on the couch and watch TV together. Like, amazing. 1195 01:06:15,470 --> 01:06:18,510 S13: What happens when you start becoming closer friends? 1196 01:06:18,790 --> 01:06:21,590 S3: Wow. Okay, Shante, you mentioned two. What's the second one? 1197 01:06:21,910 --> 01:06:25,030 S13: So the second one is something that is really, really 1198 01:06:25,030 --> 01:06:29,110 S13: crucial to avoid sabotaging that friendship. So one of the 1199 01:06:29,110 --> 01:06:32,670 S13: most important factors, statistically, that we found for the happiest 1200 01:06:32,670 --> 01:06:36,590 S13: couples is that they chose to believe the best of 1201 01:06:36,630 --> 01:06:41,230 S13: their spouse's intentions towards them, even when they were legitimately hurt. 1202 01:06:41,510 --> 01:06:41,910 S1: Wow. 1203 01:06:42,190 --> 01:06:45,710 S13: Like everybody gets hurt. Like, you know, we all can 1204 01:06:45,710 --> 01:06:49,350 S13: hurt each other's feelings. And one of the things that's 1205 01:06:49,350 --> 01:06:53,880 S13: very common is that we tend to think that person 1206 01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,440 S13: knew how that thing that hurt me knew how that 1207 01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,680 S13: would make me feel. And they said it anyway. And 1208 01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:04,360 S13: you are really honestly believing that person doesn't care about me. 1209 01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:06,520 S13: They don't appreciate me. They don't care about me, whatever 1210 01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:10,280 S13: that is in your head. It's subconscious, but that's pretty common. 1211 01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:14,920 S13: As opposed to like, oh, that still hurts. But no, 1212 01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:17,920 S13: I know they love me. I know my wife appreciates me. 1213 01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,680 S13: I know my husband loves me. And so they must 1214 01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,360 S13: not have known how that would make me feel or 1215 01:07:23,360 --> 01:07:25,880 S13: they wouldn't have said it. What you're doing is you're 1216 01:07:25,880 --> 01:07:28,920 S13: choosing to believe the best, not of the actions, because 1217 01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,080 S13: we can hurt each other like legitimately hurt, but of 1218 01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:34,760 S13: the intentions and the motivations. Yeah. 1219 01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:39,240 S3: Shanti Feldhuhn, social researcher, our guest right now, now this 1220 01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,760 S3: type of conversation has become more and more unpopular as 1221 01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:46,720 S3: there's been pushback against the idea of there being, uh, 1222 01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:51,210 S3: gender norms. Um. I laugh because. 1223 01:07:51,970 --> 01:07:52,690 S14: I do laugh. 1224 01:07:53,210 --> 01:07:57,050 S3: Obviously everything that you are saying is rooted in data. 1225 01:07:57,050 --> 01:08:01,930 S3: It's not just stereotypes. How do you navigate this changing 1226 01:08:01,930 --> 01:08:06,290 S3: landscape culturally, where the idea that men do this and 1227 01:08:06,290 --> 01:08:09,450 S3: women do this would be offensive to many people? 1228 01:08:09,770 --> 01:08:12,050 S13: Well, there's a couple of things that are really important. 1229 01:08:12,050 --> 01:08:15,970 S13: And for everybody listening, this is this is important to say. 1230 01:08:16,010 --> 01:08:19,009 S13: And every time, like Jeff and I do marriage events 1231 01:08:19,010 --> 01:08:21,610 S13: and we'll speak at churches and invite us to do whatever. 1232 01:08:21,650 --> 01:08:25,049 S13: And then one of the first things that we say 1233 01:08:25,050 --> 01:08:27,729 S13: before we start the marriage event or the retreat or 1234 01:08:27,729 --> 01:08:32,769 S13: whatever is we are going to be making generalizations. There 1235 01:08:32,770 --> 01:08:35,170 S13: are always exceptions. 1236 01:08:35,370 --> 01:08:36,090 S14: So that's the first. 1237 01:08:36,090 --> 01:08:39,009 S13: Thing to note is like, okay, if 80% of men 1238 01:08:39,010 --> 01:08:44,570 S13: said one way, by definition 20% didn't. Everybody's an individual. 1239 01:08:44,770 --> 01:08:47,650 S13: And the key is use it as a starting point 1240 01:08:47,689 --> 01:08:50,580 S13: to go to your spouse and say, is this true? Like, 1241 01:08:50,620 --> 01:08:53,460 S13: you look so confident. Really? Do you have that kind 1242 01:08:53,460 --> 01:08:55,860 S13: of self doubt about whether you're a good dad or 1243 01:08:55,900 --> 01:08:58,780 S13: a good provider? Like, is that really in there? And 1244 01:08:58,820 --> 01:09:02,019 S13: maybe it is. Maybe it isn't right that I think 1245 01:09:02,020 --> 01:09:05,580 S13: the number of men who, for example, were worried about thinking, 1246 01:09:05,740 --> 01:09:07,660 S13: you know, always on my back of my mind, do 1247 01:09:07,660 --> 01:09:09,979 S13: I have the ability to provide for my family? I 1248 01:09:09,979 --> 01:09:13,139 S13: think it was something like 87% or something, but that 1249 01:09:13,140 --> 01:09:17,820 S13: means 13% didn't, right? So use it as a starting point. 1250 01:09:17,820 --> 01:09:20,740 S13: So that's the first thing. We always say that right 1251 01:09:20,740 --> 01:09:25,139 S13: up front. The second thing is, okay, so maybe you've 1252 01:09:25,140 --> 01:09:29,900 S13: discovered that your spouse is in the 80% on whatever. 1253 01:09:30,180 --> 01:09:31,660 S14: Whatever the thing is. 1254 01:09:32,020 --> 01:09:34,500 S13: And then you've got a decision you have to make. 1255 01:09:34,860 --> 01:09:36,780 S13: And this is, you know, one of the things we 1256 01:09:36,780 --> 01:09:40,420 S13: always say, we're not telling you what you do, like 1257 01:09:40,580 --> 01:09:43,340 S13: what we're doing is giving you, hey, here's what the 1258 01:09:43,380 --> 01:09:48,430 S13: happiest couples do, right? Statistically. And here's statistically, what we're 1259 01:09:48,430 --> 01:09:51,590 S13: seeing is the insecurities that are more likely to be 1260 01:09:51,590 --> 01:09:55,150 S13: under the surface of a husband or a wife. And 1261 01:09:55,150 --> 01:09:57,910 S13: then you can choose to do what you want to 1262 01:09:57,950 --> 01:10:01,030 S13: do with that. But I'm always reminded of Doctor Phil's 1263 01:10:01,110 --> 01:10:03,349 S13: a line like, how's that working for you? 1264 01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:03,870 S4: For you. 1265 01:10:04,910 --> 01:10:05,349 S13: You know. 1266 01:10:06,189 --> 01:10:09,349 S1: What's amazing is these numbers don't lie. They just straight 1267 01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:11,590 S1: up don't lie. And it flies in the face of 1268 01:10:11,590 --> 01:10:14,030 S1: this gender blender world that Ali's. 1269 01:10:14,030 --> 01:10:14,870 S12: Alluding to here. 1270 01:10:16,350 --> 01:10:19,429 S13: The thing that's funny about the gender blender thing is 1271 01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:23,390 S13: that you have to studiously ignore every speck of neuroscience. 1272 01:10:24,790 --> 01:10:28,349 S1: Studiously ignore. You're right about. 1273 01:10:28,350 --> 01:10:30,270 S12: That. Oh my goodness. 1274 01:10:30,510 --> 01:10:33,150 S1: Anyway, yeah, I love it, I love it. Shanti, I 1275 01:10:33,189 --> 01:10:35,910 S1: gotta tell you, this is good stuff, sister. There is 1276 01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:40,070 S1: so much chock filled in here. But, you know, it's interesting. 1277 01:10:40,110 --> 01:10:43,790 S1: Ali brings up a good point. And the irony is 1278 01:10:44,229 --> 01:10:49,160 S1: the data doesn't lie. Yes, there's exceptions, but by and 1279 01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,519 S1: large and on a couple of those data points, working 1280 01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:54,360 S1: with men as much as I do, I got to 1281 01:10:54,360 --> 01:10:57,639 S1: believe this question of am I enough? Am I going 1282 01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,240 S1: to make it? Am I a provider? I think only 1283 01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,679 S1: a trust fund baby ain't asking that question if he's 1284 01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,360 S1: a dude. I'm serious about that. 1285 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,840 S13: Seriously? Well, actually, you you're going to laugh. But the 1286 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:11,560 S13: study we did of money, the high net worth individuals, 1287 01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,800 S13: had the exact same insecurities. 1288 01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:14,400 S4: Wow. 1289 01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:16,880 S13: Craziest thing? Yes. 1290 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:20,599 S1: So my pursuit of being a billionaire is for is folly, then? 1291 01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:21,160 S12: Okay. 1292 01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:26,280 S1: All right. All right. Shante Feldman, our guest. And she 1293 01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,759 S1: kills it. Guys, the content is amazing. Millions of people 1294 01:11:29,760 --> 01:11:31,920 S1: don't lie. We got a link for you right now 1295 01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:34,160 S1: with all kinds of resources. Ali. 1296 01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:40,480 S3: Text the word only to 800 555, 7898. Text only 1297 01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,559 S3: to 800 555 7898.