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S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. Come as

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S1: you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems impossible and

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S1: live as you never imagined. Start your morning with a laugh.

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S2: Practical from the Bible. Tips and tricks to kill. Not tricks,

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S2: but tips and tricks. Tips and tricks to kill. Tips and.

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S1: Tricks. Delivering the truth daily.

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S3: All of my attempts to, you know, prop myself up

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S3: with achievement and good works. Well, God wasn't impressed by that,

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S3: even if other people were.

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S2: The gospel changes everything.

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S4: Freedom in Christ. Man, it's like that backpack of cement

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S4: just falling to the ground.

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S1: Now, from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl

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S1: and crew.

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S5: I gotta tell you, I took a peek to see

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S5: what the score was before I went up to preach.

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S5: I just had to do it. So I took a

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S5: peek and there it was. Overtime win, 2 to 1.

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S2: That's insane.

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S5: Man. USA. USA. I know we got some friends in

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S5: Canada here this morning.

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S2: Oh for sure.

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S5: We love you guys, but.

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S2: You gotta celebrate. You got the Olympic gold?

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S3: Of course you gold back.

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S5: 46 years to the day of the Miracle on Ice.

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S3: Oh, was.

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S5: It to the day?

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S3: Oh, I didn't get that.

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S5: Part of the Miracle on Ice. And the the storylines

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S5: in there are just enormous.

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S2: I did not realize the the last time the US

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S2: won the Olympic gold for hockey. Men's hockey was in 1980.

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S2: I knew the Miracle on Ice, but I didn't realize

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S2: that was the last time they won the gold.

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S5: Yeah, I'm not sure I did either. Yeah. And they, I,

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S5: I don't know that we've we haven't had any chill

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S5: players in all the Olympics. I think sometimes they just

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S5: keep trucking and they didn't let them into the Olympics.

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S5: But man did this create some.

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S6: And that poor kid would. Jack Hughes was his name.

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S5: Oh, yeah. Got his teeth busted.

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S6: He was toothless.

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S2: At the end of the game.

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S6: And he's talking to the press conference.

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S5: Blood's coming out of his mouth. Yeah, and you gotta

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S5: love that.

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S2: Hockey players are something different, man, in terms of sustaining

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S2: injury and then just continuing to go.

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S6: And he's like again.

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S5: How many how many guys get teeth busted out. And

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S5: then you come back onto the ice anyway.

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S6: And you're crazy. You know what I mean?

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S2: It's crazy.

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S5: It was beautiful. Yeah. This kind of sport Ali loves.

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S6: Yeah.

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S3: I mean, I my son was really following this game,

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S3: so he was. We were sitting in church and he's like, mom,

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S3: check the score.

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S6: Good good good.

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S3: So he definitely had a I had to kind of

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S3: mute his reaction when he saw Mid-service that they had

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S3: won 2 to 1.

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S2: Oh that's great.

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S5: That's good. We had we had somebody walk in a

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S5: little bit late. She comes and plops down in the

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S5: front row. It was pretty full in the house and

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S5: and I made the I made the comment before a

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S5: meet and greet. We call it who in the world

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S5: are you? And I said, listen, for those of you

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S5: that want to know, USA just won an overtime 2

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S5: to 1 and the place went gonzo and and, uh,

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S5: Jill is her name. She's sitting in the front row

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S5: and she just started commentating to me going, yes, this

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S5: is what happened and everything else. And I'm like, Jill,

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S5: we gotta roll here, sister.

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S6: That's awesome.

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S5: It's cool. She's she's motivated. She had a son that

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S5: was a goalie. And I think our goalie won the game.

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S5: I mean.

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S2: Oh, the whole Canada to 11..

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S5: 40 some stops or 30 some stops. I forget what

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S5: it was. Pull up that stat super die for me

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S5: if you could. But it was. It was an epic game.

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S5: Oh my goodness. And you know I it's makes it

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S5: tough for Canada because that's kind of like that's their

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S5: that's their jam You know, I mean, hockey is what

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S5: they do. I mean, that's, you know, they get skates

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S5: on those kids early on and they probably had in

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S5: that overtime period. They they had faster skaters. They had

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S5: some more skilled skaters out there. But it just the

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S5: puck bounced the right way in for the win.

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S2: US is us. Goalie had 41 stops, 41.

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S6: Stops.

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S2: 42 shots on goal, 42 shots on goal is a

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S2: lot for a for a hockey game, 30 is probably average. Woo!

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S5: USA.

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S6: USA.

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S5: I mean that was just crazy. What a way to

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S5: cap off the wonderful Olympics. I heard word that we'd

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S5: never gotten more golds in a Winter Olympics or something

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S5: like that. I don't know if that's just rumor or.

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S2: You.

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S6: Gotta.

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S5: Fact check all that.

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S6: Yeah.

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S3: Very true. And, you know, Cathy ended her Olympic coverage

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S3: with us last week.

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S2: So yes.

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S3: We don't have her this morning to give us a

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S3: final update. But the excitement around this win I was

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S3: driving in this morning in Chicago, the the big billboard

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S3: that said Miracle on twice.

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S2: Oh oh.

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S6: Yeah.

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S5: I didn't.

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S3: See that. Oh that's great, that's great.

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S5: Oh isn't that great. Just awesome stuff. Well, we are

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S5: going to weave a theme through this week that is

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S5: going to be so powerful. And I've been up early

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S5: this morning to do some prep for you boom crew.

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S5: And I am some kind of fired up when you

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S5: think about prayer. We need to think in terms of

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S5: principles that are timeless and that there's a pattern to

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S5: these kind of prayers that God works in powerfully. And

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S5: I've got one for you this morning. It's going to

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S5: be pretty epic, and I just want you to lend

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S5: your heart. If you could hang around, I want you

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S5: to do that. I want to prep this by going

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S5: to George Mueller Alley. You got some facts on this

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S5: brother of ours?

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S3: Yeah. George Mueller, widely considered one of the greatest men

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S3: of prayer and faith. He led to four influential ministries,

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S3: but he's known best for his work in orphanages. He

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S3: recorded over 50,000.

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S6: Specific.

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S3: Answers to prayers in his journals. Get this 30,000. So

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S3: 30 out of those 50,000 that he recorded, he said,

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S3: were answered the same day or even the same hour

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S3: that he prayed them. So he never asked for donations

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S3: for his work in this. In these orphanages, he would

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S3: sometimes care for up to 2000 orphans at a time,

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S3: 10,000 over his lifetime, and he never let his requests

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S3: be known to anyone other than God. And so God

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S3: provided all of the resources that he needed to be

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S3: able to care for these orphans. So he saw miracle

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S3: after miracle after answered prayer after answered prayer and was

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S3: able to care for these children. So he has become

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S3: a truly a an epic legend even. I mean, but

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S3: he was a he really lived, he really did this work,

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S3: but certainly one that we look to when we think

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S3: of what it looks like to pray fervently, expectantly, and

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S3: to see God move.

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S5: It's so cool. And so there's a place we find

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S5: in Scripture that becomes an outline, according to Swindoll. Spurgeon.

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S5: Great theologians, both here with us in Already Gone Away

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S5: that are just over the top, exciting. And wow, we're

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S5: going to peel it back for you. Good morning boom crew.

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S5: We are in for a great run this week. Anyone

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S5: else fired up about a theme of prayer all week long?

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S6: Absolutely.

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S5: Oh my goodness. Let's roll with it.

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S1: Breaking chains and running free. You're listening to Carl and crew.

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S5: Sometimes we think of prayer. Um, and we if we're

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S5: honest with ourselves, we have some questions Like, does the

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S5: prayer of a righteous person really have great power in

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S5: its working? Does it? And how does that work? Are thrilled. Man.

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S5: This morning I've actually discovered something in a couple hours

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S5: here early this morning that is pretty mind popping. If

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S5: there is one place in scripture that Spurgeon, Swindoll, Mueller,

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S5: you name it, I mean Tozer, they find as a

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S5: pattern for powerful prayer. It's right here in this central passage. Ali,

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S5: this is epic, isn't it?

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S3: James five starting with verse 16, it says, therefore confess

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S3: your sins to one another and pray for one another,

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S3: that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous

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S3: person has great power as it is working. Elijah was

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S3: a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed

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S3: fervently that it might not rain. And for three years

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S3: and six months it did not rain on the earth.

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S3: Then he prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the

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S3: earth bore its fruit.

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S5: Okay, you look at Elijah. Let me just hit this quickly.

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S5: You look, Elijah, and you go. Okay, great. I've got

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S5: to live a life like a life. Here's what James says.

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S5: Elijah was just like us. And I think sometimes we

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S5: look at the greats and we go, there's something going

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S5: on in their life that we were not born with

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S5: that DNA. You know what I mean, guys?

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S6: Right.

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S3: It can feel like that.

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S5: Yeah. What if I told you that the answer to

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S5: that question is this reality? The reality is, is that

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S5: he was just like us. And what put him on

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S5: the pages of Scripture, according to James, is the posture

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S5: of his prayer. That's what put him there.

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S2: Yeah. You know, I've heard this quote, uh, I'm going

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S2: to paraphrase it a little bit to include Elijah, but

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S2: it's this person who said it was talking about, you know,

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S2: experiencing Jesus to his fullest. And they said that, you know,

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S2: sometimes we sit and we think, well, we don't experience

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S2: Jesus like the people in the Bible experience Jesus because

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S2: they were just something special. Jesus loved and attended to

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S2: them more than he does to us. But the truth is,

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S2: is that that experience is available to all of us.

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S2: It's that we don't love and attend to Jesus the

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S2: way they did. You know, they they were with Jesus.

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S2: They spent time dedicated to being in his presence each

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S2: and every day. And so they experienced him in powerful ways,

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S2: and his power moved through them. That same promise is

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S2: available to us. If we would just be close with

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S2: him and live in the way that he calls us to. Yeah.

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S5: He's a man just like us.

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S2: Just like us.

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S5: So what made the difference? George Mueller has taken these

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S5: few verses that Ali just read and put them into

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S5: an outline, and others have tagged that same outline that

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S5: Mueller has and seen it as a pattern for powerful prayer,

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S5: effective prayer. Coming up, we're going to give you that outline.

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S1: Standing on the rock each and every day. You're listening

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S1: to Carl and crew.

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S5: Oh, man, I'm so excited about this. My palms are sweating.

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S5: Something's cooking here, Ali.

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S6: Oh, I.

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S2: Love that kind of excitement.

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S5: Yeah, I really am. Uh, the effective prayer of a

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S5: righteous man or woman. This is this is this is

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S5: pretty profound. Whether it's Spurgeon, Swindoll, uh, you name it.

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S5: I mean, Jake Ryle. It's across the board. I was

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S5: blown away as I studied this, that the greats see

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S5: this as a pattern and principles for praying for anything. Now,

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S5: the direct context in James five is if if anyone

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S5: among you is suffering or struggling with sin, you come

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S5: and you pray. But the the commentators and the theologians

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S5: on this say this is a recurrent pattern that's put

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S5: here more condensed in James five than anywhere in Scripture.

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S5: But they say this is the stuff. And Mueller said

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S5: this is what he hung his whole ministry and the

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S5: power of prayer. How many answered prayers for Mueller?

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S3: He recorded in his journal 50,000.

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S2: He might have forgotten some.

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S3: So I mean 50,030 thousand within an hour or the

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S3: same day. So that's 500 answers to prayer each year,

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S3: more than one a day, every single day for 60 years.

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S3: To put that in context.

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S5: This is epic. Okay, Ali, let's read that passage again.

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S5: If we could out of James five.

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S6: Yeah.

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S3: James five, starting with verse 16, therefore confess your sins

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S3: to one another and pray for one another that you

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S3: may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has

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S3: great power as it is working. Elijah was a man

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S3: with a nature like ours, and he prayed fervently that

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S3: it might not rain. And for three years and six

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S3: months it did not rain on the earth. Then he

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S3: prayed again, and heaven gave rain, and the earth bore

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S3: its fruit.

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S2: Yeah.

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S5: Beautiful man. Okay, let me give you the four part

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S5: outline of Mueller that he hung all of his prayers

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S5: on that. Swindoll says this is like this is the

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S5: pattern of powerful prayer. First and foremost, the necessity of

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S5: a righteous life. The man or woman of God who

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S5: has it cleaned the deck. Now, let me give you

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S5: the anecdotal thing here first. John one nine if we

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S5: confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive

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S5: us our sins and to cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

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S5: Mueller stated that if I regard iniquity in my heart,

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S5: the Lord will not hear me. Spurgeon said, the prayer

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S5: of the upright is God's delight. Tozer said, the effective

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S5: prayer is the fruit of a righteous life. Now here's

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S5: the here's the hope. This is why getting up in

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S5: the morning and starting your day, clearing the decks of

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S5: any stuff in your heart, making sure that your affections

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S5: are aligned with God is one of the most powerful

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S5: things we can do. Have you ever noticed when we've

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S5: done that early in the morning, you get up, you go. God,

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S5: search me, know me, try me, see stuff in me

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S5: that's hurtful and lead me in the way. Everlasting. Powerful stuff.

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S5: It just clears the decks. And have you ever noticed

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S5: that when you search your heart and clear the decks

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S5: of any known missing the mark, suddenly there's a vertical

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S5: connection with God of authenticity that's just real. As real

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S5: can be.

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S3: So when you say that righteous life, because obviously we

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S3: know we stand in the righteousness of Christ, so we

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S3: cannot make ourselves righteous, positionally speaking, right?

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S6: Yeah.

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S5: Yeah. This is why John goes on to say he

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S5: prays as he ought, will endeavor to live as he prays.

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S5: Isn't that a great quote? Yeah, we'll endeavor to live

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S5: as he prays. So we stand in the righteousness of Christ.

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S5: But because we have this thing called the flesh, the

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S5: sarx We can get sideways in a New York second.

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S5: So just clearing the decks of all that stuff, that's

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S5: what precipitates these powerful prayers. Second point, the reality of

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S5: God hearing. Sometimes we wonder, am I just talking into

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S5: the air? Mueller said prayer is not over. Oh, listen

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S5: to this quote. Prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance, but

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S5: laying hold of God's willingness. Prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance,

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S5: but laying hold of his willingness.

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S2: That's such a good quote, man.

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S5: Is that something else?

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S2: It's so powerful because I feel like that's what we

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S2: do that with prayer. It's like, well, whatever's happening right

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S2: now is is whatever is completely on God's mind and

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S2: and us praying is us trying to change his mind

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S2: to get us to get it. Get him to do

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S2: what what we want. And we're we're going in and

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S2: we're setting our hearts on him and laying his willingness.

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S2: He desires to answer our prayers, but he's waiting for

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S2: us sometimes.

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S5: So powerful. Andrew Murray added to this outline and said,

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S5: the great thing in prayer is to feel that we

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S5: are putting our supplications into the bosom of omnipotent love.

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S5: Sorry I'm overwhelming you with some quotes here today, but

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S5: this is powerful stuff. Third point of Mueller's outline. The

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S5: earnestness and specificity of prayer is vital. As a matter

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S5: of fact, Chuck Swindoll said vague prayers produce vague results,

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S5: but he said specific prayers leads to specific results. Mueller

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S5: himself said it is not enough to begin to pray,

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S5: but we must patiently believingly continue in specific prayers and

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S5: believing that we're going to obtain that answer. And you

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S5: already cited how many prayers were answered, but Mueller recounted

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S5: praying for precise sum of money and needs of the orphanage.

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S5: And this is what he said. I had asked God

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S5: for a specific amount to be sent on that day,

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S5: and it came in full, almost exactly the sum requested.

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S5: I was always amazed at how exact God's answers were

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S5: when I prayed in faith in specificity.

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S6: Wow.

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S5: This is powerful.

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S3: Stuff. I read one stat that said that over the

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S3: course of his ministry, God funneled over half $1 billion

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S3: in today's like the value of today's money through his hands.

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S3: Over half $1 billion.

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S5: Wow. Ali, is that amazing?

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S3: That's how he provided for these orphans.

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S5: Fourth point. Final point. The power of perseverance. Mueller said

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S5: I have been enabled to ask and obtain what I

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S5: have asked, because I have asked in faith, often over

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S5: months and years, and historians say that many of Mueller's

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S5: prayers came to fruition even after his death, that those

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S5: prayers were heard stored up. And as God aligned the

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S5: hearts of others that he was praying for, he changed.

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S5: Spurgeon said that before he would go into a revival

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S5: using this same outline, he would pray that the hearts

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S5: of certain people in a city would be open to

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S5: the Lord. They were notable people, and he was astounded

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S5: at how God answered those specific prayers. Leonard Ravenhill said,

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S5: persistent prayer is the engine God uses to accomplish mighty

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S5: things in the church. And John Wesley, the great revivalist, said,

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S5: God does nothing but in answer to our prayer. These

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S5: are four of the most amazing things going. But I

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S5: want to come back to this analogy of Elijah. Elijah

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S5: is our pattern, And it leads to fundamental principles of prayer.

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S5: And Elijah was just like us. We look at these greats,

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S5: even hear these quotes of people, and this is what

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S5: we've got to remember. What made them great is not

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S5: their inherent greatness. It's their trust in the greatness of

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S5: God to do what we can only imagine. And so

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S5: we pray. What an outline. What a pattern for prayer.

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S5: Swindoll said he's never been disappointed when he's prayed this

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S5: way with a heart that's upright, spraying, praying with specificity, praying,

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S5: believing that God hears. And what a thrill. You know,

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S5: we're focusing on prayer this week because we are recruiting

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S5: 600 plus, right? Super die.

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S6: That's exactly it.

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S5: Yeah, 620. I think people that were asking to fill

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S5: in prayer every half hour during share, it's coming up

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S5: in a couple of weeks and I want to throw

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S5: some mustard in this year in a big way. I've

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S5: got four pages of outline that needs to be condensed

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S5: into like a 1 or 2 page PDF, and I'm

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S5: going to work on this for the next week. I

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S5: won't have it done for probably a week. I'm going

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S5: to have these hallmark quotes in there, and this is

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S5: what I want to offer up. For those of you

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S5: that join and grab a half an hour of prayer,

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S5: we are going to pray with specificity this year, and

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S5: I've got one of a few things that we're going

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S5: to give you to pray for, but we're going to

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S5: give you this outline. I'm going to send you a PDF.

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S5: It'll probably take a week for me to get it

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S5: to you. But if you join this prayer crew, I'm

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S5: going to give this to you as a source of

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S5: encouragement and guidance. That's going to peel some paint here, guys. So, Ali,

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S5: we want to open up the floodgates today and give specifics.

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S5: What are we asking them to do a half an hour, right.

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S6: Yes.

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S3: We are moving into spring share. We are just now

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S3: about two weeks out, if I'm correct. And this is

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S3: if you're new to us, we're a listener supported station.

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S3: So we do this twice a year where we dedicate

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S3: some time extended hours here on Moody Radio, where we

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S3: just cast a vision for what God is doing through

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S3: this radio station and invite you to partner with us.

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S3: But for the last, I don't know, 6 or 6

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S3: years or so, 5 or 6 years. We've been really

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S3: recruiting prayers, and it's been incredible to see both how

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S3: God has moved in response to your prayers, but also

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S3: the testimonies we've gotten of how the individual prayers have

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S3: been blessed as they've partnered with us in this effort.

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S3: So if you're willing to grab a 30 minute time

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S3: slot and you can do this wherever you're at, wherever

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S3: in the country, if you're driving, if you're at your house,

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S3: if you're on a prayer walk, just text crew. You're

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S3: going to see the available slots. We're recruiting about ten

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S3: prayer warriors per half hour that were on air during share,

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S3: so grab that 30 minute slot. You just enter a

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S3: quick name and email so that we can follow up

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S3: with reminders, but just text crew to 800 555 7898.

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S3: Crew CREW2 800 555 7898.

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S6: Yeah.

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S5: And those of you that jump into the crew in

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S5: about a week's time, I'm going to have this PDF

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S5: crunched down, edited ready to go of this Mueller swindle.

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S5: Spurgeon pattern of powerful prayer. And what a what a blessing.

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S5: So we'll have that to you in a week. And

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S5: here's what's really cool. This is an answer to prayer.

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S5: Ali and I were talking about this and I said, Ali,

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S5: I know that the Lord wants us to give something

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S5: even more tangible this year as we head into Spring

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S5: Share and look what God has done here. Ali.

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S6: Yeah, this.

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S3: This is going to be our way of just giving

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S3: you that prayer guide. We're also going to send you

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S3: video updates behind the scenes, uh, things that you won't

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S3: see otherwise. So just text crew if you want to

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S3: be a part of this text crew to 800 555 7898.

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S5: Yeah. And we're so grateful for you to Join this

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S5: great prayer effort and we're going to resource you along

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S5: the way. Text Crewe to 800 555 7898.

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S1: Get to know the team behind the scenes. Follow Carl

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S1: and Crewe on Facebook and Instagram.

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S5: Okay, coming up here in a moment. We want some stats.

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S5: Give me some stats. We call them the stat man.

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S5: But we brought in the super stat man for this.

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S6: One.

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S3: Stat man. We take a look at what's going on

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S3: culturally what's going on in terms of worldview. Sometimes you

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S3: can feel like you have an idea, but then you

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S3: see numbers and go, okay, that makes a lot of sense.

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S3: Doctor Adam Rasmussen from the Cultural Center joins us. Coming up.

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S1: Start your day moving closer to Jesus. You're listening to

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S1: Carl and crew.

447
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S5: Good numbers are absolutely awesome and essential. Now, I know

448
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S5: I'm a number freak and I have been forever, but

449
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,480
S5: it's because I love it. It moves you beyond the

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S5: theoretical to the concrete. You can. You can postulate all

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S5: day long about where we are nationally, globally, uh, even

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S5: in communities. But when you get data points, it changes everything,

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S5: doesn't it?

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S3: It does. And we've got a numbers guy, doctor Adam Rasmussen.

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00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,480
S3: Hopefully he's okay with me calling him that. He's a

456
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,679
S3: fellow at the Cultural Research Center, uh, that was formed

457
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,800
S3: in partnership with Doctor George Barna, uh, in order to

458
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,680
S3: produce credible research and analysis to show the impact of

459
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,520
S3: the biblical worldview on American culture.

460
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,360
S5: Yeah. Good to have you with us, Adam. All right, man,

461
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,040
S5: you've had a lot of phenomenal numbers come out even

462
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:16,239
S5: in the recently December 10th, 2025 here, just a few

463
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,320
S5: months ago. Why do you do what you do? Let's

464
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,400
S5: start there. Adam, how'd you get into this?

465
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,760
S7: We want to help the church. So we exist at

466
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,790
S7: the cultural research Center at Arizona Christian University to provide

467
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:35,430
S7: resources for the church to look at biblical worldview in

468
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:39,790
S7: America and how we can restore some of those foundations.

469
00:24:40,030 --> 00:24:41,670
S7: So we're going to be talking about some of those

470
00:24:41,670 --> 00:24:45,430
S7: numbers today. But that's our that's our main goal, theologically

471
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:49,670
S7: and culturally conservative university. And we just want to help

472
00:24:49,670 --> 00:24:50,230
S7: the church.

473
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:54,550
S5: Okay. One of the stats that is really blowing my

474
00:24:54,550 --> 00:24:59,950
S5: mind is 4%. You have found through an extensive group

475
00:24:59,950 --> 00:25:04,949
S5: of people in research, 4% of the American population. We

476
00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:08,070
S5: got listeners beyond that in Canada and beyond. But this

477
00:25:08,070 --> 00:25:12,149
S5: is a good kind of Beaker test here. 4% hold

478
00:25:12,150 --> 00:25:16,990
S5: a Christian worldview that directs their private and public lives. Uh,

479
00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:20,110
S5: give us some of the metadata on that. Why is

480
00:25:20,109 --> 00:25:22,669
S5: that so important for us to know? It's a shockingly

481
00:25:22,670 --> 00:25:27,470
S5: low number compared to 24% who call themselves Evangelicals are

482
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:28,830
S5: Bible believing, Adam.

483
00:25:29,270 --> 00:25:32,150
S7: Right? Okay, so Ali called me a numbers guy. So

484
00:25:32,150 --> 00:25:35,429
S7: here we go. You're right. 4% would have what we

485
00:25:35,430 --> 00:25:41,310
S7: call a biblical worldview. And then about one quarter of

486
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:45,870
S7: adults in America would say that they are evangelical Christians

487
00:25:46,190 --> 00:25:52,390
S7: and around 62 to 66%, depending on which source you're

488
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:55,470
S7: looking at, would say that they're Christian. Okay. So let's

489
00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:58,550
S7: look over those numbers again. Two thirds of Americans would

490
00:25:58,550 --> 00:26:02,109
S7: say they're Christian. About a quarter of Americans would say

491
00:26:02,109 --> 00:26:05,750
S7: that they're evangelical. But what we've found is when you

492
00:26:05,790 --> 00:26:09,270
S7: square that against the Bible and what the Bible teaches,

493
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:14,670
S7: only 4% have a Genesis to Revelation understanding of God,

494
00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:20,629
S7: Jesus salvation and their own, you know, life and purpose.

495
00:26:20,630 --> 00:26:22,110
S7: So isn't that alarming?

496
00:26:22,109 --> 00:26:22,750
S6: It is.

497
00:26:22,750 --> 00:26:23,750
S3: What do you make of that?

498
00:26:24,070 --> 00:26:27,700
S7: Well, I make of it that we are measuring averages.

499
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:31,740
S7: We're looking at numbers. Okay. So this is a scientific study.

500
00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:35,929
S7: And it's at the 95th confidence interval with plus 1

501
00:26:35,930 --> 00:26:38,860
S7: or 2 you know plus or minus. This is a

502
00:26:38,859 --> 00:26:44,460
S7: scientific study over 2000 adults representative sample of those in America.

503
00:26:44,820 --> 00:26:47,979
S7: And I think that when you look at all of

504
00:26:48,020 --> 00:26:51,260
S7: the societal ills, we can talk about abortion rates, we

505
00:26:51,260 --> 00:26:54,500
S7: can talk about divorce, we can talk about quiet quitters,

506
00:26:54,500 --> 00:26:58,340
S7: all of those things, all those other numbers are physical

507
00:26:58,420 --> 00:27:05,060
S7: symptoms of a spiritual problem. So when we say only 4%

508
00:27:05,060 --> 00:27:08,860
S7: are taking their ideas about God, the universe and themselves

509
00:27:08,859 --> 00:27:12,379
S7: from the Bible, we have a spiritual problem. So that's

510
00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:13,260
S7: what I think of it.

511
00:27:13,740 --> 00:27:18,620
S5: You know, it's interesting Barna has not been one to commentate.

512
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:21,820
S5: He does make some commentary on these studies. You're joined

513
00:27:21,820 --> 00:27:25,020
S5: in partnership with him. But he did say something at

514
00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:27,060
S5: the end of this study. I don't have it open,

515
00:27:27,060 --> 00:27:29,860
S5: but I've got it in my head. Something. The effect

516
00:27:29,859 --> 00:27:33,460
S5: of this probably is a dinner bell for us to

517
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:36,940
S5: not invite necessarily a lot more people to the church.

518
00:27:36,940 --> 00:27:40,060
S5: That's not our biggest challenge, but to work with those

519
00:27:40,060 --> 00:27:43,980
S5: that are in the church to bolster what we believe

520
00:27:43,980 --> 00:27:46,300
S5: and why. What do you think about that, Adam?

521
00:27:46,780 --> 00:27:50,419
S7: Yes, our statistics show that. And just bottom line, we

522
00:27:50,420 --> 00:27:53,180
S7: look at D.L. Moody. We look at others that brought

523
00:27:53,180 --> 00:27:58,340
S7: meaning revival, the gospel. When you want to see culture change,

524
00:27:58,340 --> 00:28:03,139
S7: it works this way. God changes the church and the

525
00:28:03,140 --> 00:28:04,700
S7: church changes the culture.

526
00:28:04,740 --> 00:28:05,420
S5: Amen.

527
00:28:05,460 --> 00:28:08,060
S7: So what we have to do is get back to

528
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:15,020
S7: preaching the gospel. And that's going to involve things like sin, repentance. Yes, faith.

529
00:28:15,460 --> 00:28:18,260
S7: And those things are not being we can measure those things.

530
00:28:18,260 --> 00:28:23,530
S7: They are, on average, not happening in our churches. So yes,

531
00:28:23,530 --> 00:28:26,330
S7: I would say, of course, we need to reach our neighbors.

532
00:28:26,609 --> 00:28:28,890
S7: We need to reach the lost. Those that don't go

533
00:28:28,890 --> 00:28:31,609
S7: to church. You also have to realize those people are

534
00:28:31,609 --> 00:28:33,850
S7: in the pew right next to you at church.

535
00:28:34,170 --> 00:28:37,170
S3: Doctor Adam Rasmussen with the Cultural Research Center. Our guest

536
00:28:37,170 --> 00:28:39,290
S3: this morning. You know, you mentioned sin. I know you

537
00:28:39,290 --> 00:28:41,610
S3: also had a report, the Cultural Research Center had a

538
00:28:41,610 --> 00:28:46,370
S3: report out last year about sin and how American Christians

539
00:28:46,370 --> 00:28:51,250
S3: define sinfulness. What did you find in that report?

540
00:28:51,610 --> 00:28:56,050
S7: Well, Ali, 84% of adults in America, whether they're Christian

541
00:28:56,050 --> 00:29:00,810
S7: or atheist or whatever, they would say sin exists. They would. Now,

542
00:29:00,850 --> 00:29:04,450
S7: how do we define it? That's the question. So it's

543
00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:08,810
S7: very interesting study. You can look at it September 4th, 2025.

544
00:29:08,850 --> 00:29:12,530
S7: All of this is free on our website. It's very interesting.

545
00:29:12,530 --> 00:29:14,650
S7: So what are we going to do when people know, okay,

546
00:29:14,690 --> 00:29:19,370
S7: I do things that are bad or wrong. And only 72%

547
00:29:19,370 --> 00:29:22,730
S7: of Americans would say that sin is disobedience to God.

548
00:29:22,770 --> 00:29:26,290
S7: And then if you keep going down, only 3% of

549
00:29:26,290 --> 00:29:30,170
S7: Americans would say that they are not going to heaven.

550
00:29:30,210 --> 00:29:34,130
S7: They're going to the other place. So the idea of

551
00:29:34,170 --> 00:29:39,210
S7: God as being holy, or us having to have repentance

552
00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:43,490
S7: and forgiveness through Jesus alone isn't there? I think people

553
00:29:43,490 --> 00:29:48,209
S7: in America really want honesty across the board. That's the

554
00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:51,890
S7: one thing that people really don't like is when people

555
00:29:51,890 --> 00:29:58,090
S7: lie to better themselves. We think that's just egregious. But

556
00:29:58,130 --> 00:30:00,850
S7: there are a lot of other behaviors that we tend

557
00:30:00,850 --> 00:30:04,290
S7: to look away from. And I'm talking about the average American.

558
00:30:04,290 --> 00:30:07,090
S7: I'm not talking about that 4% or group that are

559
00:30:07,090 --> 00:30:08,970
S7: really locked in on the Bible.

560
00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:11,450
S5: I want to go back to something that you just said.

561
00:30:11,490 --> 00:30:15,170
S5: Doctor Adam Rasmussen is our guest. He's a fellow at

562
00:30:15,170 --> 00:30:17,850
S5: the Cultural Research Center, and we're going to have a

563
00:30:17,850 --> 00:30:19,610
S5: link for you here in just a moment. Boom crew

564
00:30:19,650 --> 00:30:21,560
S5: that's going to get you on to all these stats.

565
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,840
S5: Because if you're like me. Not everyone is, but you

566
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,840
S5: love numbers and that this is profound insight. You know,

567
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,560
S5: I've done some study on the Great Awakenings, and I

568
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,720
S5: think a lot of people think this is a good

569
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,640
S5: assumption that if we're going to see a cultural shift

570
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,720
S5: and a revival, we would think those numbers would be

571
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,560
S5: up around 51%, just a tipping point where the tide's

572
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,719
S5: starting to move the other direction. But in the Great Awakenings,

573
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,120
S5: that wasn't the case. But if you look at what

574
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,280
S5: happened in the Great Awakenings, they had, 15% of the

575
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,520
S5: population would have fallen into what is now 4%, which

576
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,600
S5: Christian worldview they taught on sin. They were convicted of sin,

577
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,960
S5: they repented, they turned, and that 15% was so alive

578
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:17,520
S5: in Christ that it created social plate shifts. That changed

579
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,120
S5: the whole, uh, morality of our nation radically. So I'm

580
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,800
S5: coming back to this. This is not about vast numbers

581
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:31,600
S5: of people that necessarily hear about Jesus. This is about

582
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,920
S5: smaller numbers, lesser numbers who are radically committed to Christ.

583
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,880
S5: And we can see things change. Thoughts on that one, Adam?

584
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,479
S7: Uh, 100% agree with you. The message of truth and

585
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,239
S7: love that Jesus proclaimed with his very life are the

586
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,360
S7: model and power for Christian living. And historically speaking, Carl,

587
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,360
S7: when Christians have lived out those principles in their day

588
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:59,400
S7: to day lives, reforms have swept through culture that benefit

589
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,640
S7: all people. And you're right, we're called to be salt

590
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,960
S7: and light, and we will be until the Lord returns.

591
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,720
S7: George Barnes said if we have about 10% of discipled

592
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,200
S7: up Christians, we can really make a huge difference. Yeah,

593
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,720
S7: you and I don't bring the Holy Spirit. We don't

594
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,270
S7: bring the fire, but we prepare the firewood and we

595
00:32:20,310 --> 00:32:23,550
S7: get ready and we say, oh Lord, in our generation.

596
00:32:23,550 --> 00:32:25,710
S7: And isn't that what we're trying to do? Isn't that

597
00:32:25,710 --> 00:32:28,870
S7: what you're trying to do with your program and with

598
00:32:28,870 --> 00:32:31,590
S7: my ministry? We want to tell people the good news

599
00:32:31,590 --> 00:32:35,150
S7: of Jesus. And really, it is for all of life.

600
00:32:35,430 --> 00:32:38,590
S7: And we've seen it happen in various generations. Let's have

601
00:32:38,590 --> 00:32:39,470
S7: it happen here.

602
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:43,190
S3: Doctor Adam Rasmussen, our guest this morning. What trends are

603
00:32:43,190 --> 00:32:46,830
S3: you looking at this coming year? Can you forecast a

604
00:32:46,830 --> 00:32:48,710
S3: little bit for us what you're going to be tracking?

605
00:32:49,150 --> 00:32:52,430
S7: That's a great question. I think what we've seen is

606
00:32:52,430 --> 00:32:56,229
S7: that there's a rising group of young people and among

607
00:32:56,230 --> 00:33:00,510
S7: men as well. That's exciting to see. We have other

608
00:33:00,510 --> 00:33:02,550
S7: things that we want to keep watching, like right here

609
00:33:02,550 --> 00:33:06,709
S7: at Arizona Christian University. We have an amazing program to

610
00:33:06,750 --> 00:33:09,709
S7: develop students in their biblical worldview. And so we have

611
00:33:09,710 --> 00:33:13,470
S7: a longitudinal study that we just released over five years.

612
00:33:13,470 --> 00:33:17,310
S7: And we've been able to see Worldview impact among young

613
00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:19,270
S7: people here. So I think those are some of the

614
00:33:19,270 --> 00:33:20,670
S7: things that we're looking forward to.

615
00:33:20,910 --> 00:33:23,310
S5: Man, I love this. Adam, we got to get you

616
00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:26,670
S5: back here more often. How often do you drop, uh,

617
00:33:26,670 --> 00:33:28,110
S5: research pieces?

618
00:33:28,430 --> 00:33:31,150
S7: A couple times a month. Uh, we usually take a

619
00:33:31,150 --> 00:33:34,390
S7: little bit of a break during the summer, so I

620
00:33:34,390 --> 00:33:37,070
S7: would say they're going to be about ten a year.

621
00:33:37,070 --> 00:33:40,310
S7: But then George Barna does some others outside of the

622
00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:44,070
S7: cultural research Center that are pretty interesting to see as well.

623
00:33:44,470 --> 00:33:46,790
S7: And we'll see what we're talking about here coming up

624
00:33:46,790 --> 00:33:48,030
S7: in 2026.

625
00:33:48,070 --> 00:33:51,790
S5: Yeah. Beautiful man. Love having you here bro. Okay. We've

626
00:33:51,790 --> 00:33:54,390
S5: got a piece of content for you that is going

627
00:33:54,430 --> 00:33:59,710
S5: to be super helpful from December 10th, 2025. This piece

628
00:33:59,710 --> 00:34:05,150
S5: reveals 4% worldview and some other important stats as well.

629
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:13,790
S3: Text research to 855 five 7898. Research to 855 five 7898.

630
00:34:14,420 --> 00:34:18,500
S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl

631
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:19,060
S1: and crew.

632
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:22,140
S5: One of the toughest topics that we have to address

633
00:34:22,140 --> 00:34:27,060
S5: around here, and we must is abuse, both physical and verbal.

634
00:34:27,739 --> 00:34:31,419
S5: And it's heartbreaking because some of you maybe even listening today, or,

635
00:34:31,420 --> 00:34:34,700
S5: you know, someone who needs to be listening is in

636
00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:36,900
S5: a situation like this right now.

637
00:34:36,940 --> 00:34:39,260
S3: So coming up, we are going to have a conversation with.

638
00:34:39,340 --> 00:34:42,820
S3: He's become a favorite expert on our show, Doctor David Clarke,

639
00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:47,219
S3: talking specifically about narcissism, among other things. But we're going

640
00:34:47,260 --> 00:34:49,700
S3: to really dive into that one. Maybe you hear people

641
00:34:49,739 --> 00:34:53,580
S3: talk use that word. Maybe I'm married to a narcissist,

642
00:34:53,580 --> 00:34:56,060
S3: or I have a friend who's a narcissist. What does

643
00:34:56,060 --> 00:34:59,100
S3: that mean? And what do you do if that's what

644
00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:00,420
S3: you've identified?

645
00:35:00,460 --> 00:35:03,219
S5: Yeah. And and I think what we need to get

646
00:35:03,219 --> 00:35:07,220
S5: into with them is we throw a lot of words around.

647
00:35:07,219 --> 00:35:08,540
S5: What does it mean? Right.

648
00:35:08,860 --> 00:35:09,460
S3: Exactly.

649
00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:13,500
S5: Yeah. What does it mean? And then the most important

650
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:17,060
S5: question what do we do about it? Hang on, Doctor Clark,

651
00:35:17,060 --> 00:35:17,940
S5: straight ahead.

652
00:35:18,620 --> 00:35:21,540
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew on Moody Radio.

653
00:35:21,940 --> 00:35:26,300
S5: Relationships are tough. Come on. We. The reason we bring

654
00:35:26,300 --> 00:35:31,779
S5: in experts on marriage, family, discipleship, like we're hammering a

655
00:35:31,780 --> 00:35:36,580
S5: lot here as of late is because relationships are tough. Oftentimes,

656
00:35:36,580 --> 00:35:39,460
S5: it's easier to just back up, go to your corner,

657
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,780
S5: and kind of hope things get better. When it comes

658
00:35:42,780 --> 00:35:46,100
S5: to the issue of abuse in marriage, let's just jump

659
00:35:46,100 --> 00:35:50,219
S5: right in here. There is physical abuse and there is

660
00:35:50,219 --> 00:35:53,259
S5: verbal abuse, for which, as a pastor, I just want

661
00:35:53,260 --> 00:35:56,779
S5: to be really clear. I have prescribed many times separation,

662
00:35:56,780 --> 00:36:00,300
S5: not divorce. That's for someone to make up their mind

663
00:36:00,340 --> 00:36:07,060
S5: given the circumstances of each situation. But emotional abuse, abandonment,

664
00:36:07,060 --> 00:36:12,450
S5: physical abuse it's good to get an expert in. David Clark, PhD,

665
00:36:12,489 --> 00:36:15,850
S5: here with us right now. This is real, isn't it?

666
00:36:15,850 --> 00:36:18,770
S5: And yet, how systemic is it? We often throw words

667
00:36:18,770 --> 00:36:22,009
S5: around like abuse. We got to be careful. But we

668
00:36:22,010 --> 00:36:23,810
S5: need to be clear, don't we, David?

669
00:36:24,610 --> 00:36:27,330
S8: Well we do. And it is out there. And it's

670
00:36:27,330 --> 00:36:29,930
S8: as much in the church as it is anywhere else.

671
00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:34,770
S8: We're churning out narcissists and abusers by the millions. But

672
00:36:34,770 --> 00:36:36,609
S8: we need to be careful. That's why we need to

673
00:36:36,610 --> 00:36:39,890
S8: talk to an expert therapist, someone who gets it, who

674
00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:43,090
S8: can evaluate you carefully to figure out is this a

675
00:36:43,090 --> 00:36:46,930
S8: difficult person and a conflicted marriage, or is it something

676
00:36:46,969 --> 00:36:47,650
S8: far worse?

677
00:36:48,050 --> 00:36:50,489
S3: Doctor David Clark with us right now. Okay, so I

678
00:36:50,489 --> 00:36:52,570
S3: want to go back to what you just said. This

679
00:36:52,610 --> 00:36:57,450
S3: is as rampant and prevalent in the church as anywhere else. That.

680
00:36:57,489 --> 00:36:57,890
S8: Yeah.

681
00:36:58,690 --> 00:37:01,410
S3: Explain. Because that's that's surprising.

682
00:37:02,330 --> 00:37:05,370
S8: These. Well, I'm doing a whole series on covert narcs now.

683
00:37:05,370 --> 00:37:09,690
S8: The covert narcissists, these guys and women to look beautiful

684
00:37:09,690 --> 00:37:12,770
S8: on Sunday morning. Everybody loves them. They know the pastor

685
00:37:12,810 --> 00:37:15,810
S8: they're serving. And they, as the Bible says, as Jesus

686
00:37:15,810 --> 00:37:19,410
S8: says himself, they are wolves in sheep's clothing. Uh, so

687
00:37:19,410 --> 00:37:21,970
S8: we have to be careful. You don't you don't know anybody.

688
00:37:21,969 --> 00:37:23,529
S8: If you know them on Sunday, you don't know them

689
00:37:23,530 --> 00:37:26,330
S8: unless you live with them. So. And they and the

690
00:37:26,330 --> 00:37:30,770
S8: church is a breeding ground. Oh, nice people, Christian people.

691
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:34,330
S8: You can fool them if you know what you're doing. Easily.

692
00:37:34,730 --> 00:37:37,370
S5: Okay. I want to stop right here because we have

693
00:37:37,410 --> 00:37:41,690
S5: a an assumption, a presupposition on this radio show that's

694
00:37:41,690 --> 00:37:46,570
S5: grounded in Scripture. And I'm wondering, look, I know that

695
00:37:46,570 --> 00:37:50,130
S5: disciples of Christ can get derailed and do stupid, dumb things.

696
00:37:50,130 --> 00:37:52,609
S5: And in the process of discipleship, a lot of things

697
00:37:52,610 --> 00:37:55,090
S5: have to change. Family of origin, the way we learned,

698
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:59,089
S5: the way we behave. But my contention is a lot

699
00:37:59,090 --> 00:38:01,890
S5: of these people are Christian in name only. They've not

700
00:38:01,890 --> 00:38:06,450
S5: been born again because the gap between what Pew says 24%

701
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:09,250
S5: of the American population says, I'm evangelical, go to a

702
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,680
S5: Bible preaching church or whatever, versus those that have a

703
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:16,960
S5: biblical worldview and order their private and public lives around it,

704
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,960
S5: which is 4%. I'm wondering if a lot of these

705
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,440
S5: people claim in the name of Christ are not truly

706
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,680
S5: born again. And from your experience, do you find that

707
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:26,719
S5: to be the case?

708
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:32,239
S8: Oh, absolutely. Carl. Absolutely. When you do the evaluation, whether

709
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:34,640
S8: I'm talking to them directly or I'm talking to their wife,

710
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,720
S8: which is more the case. Oh, yeah. Now they'll pretend

711
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,719
S8: to be Christians. They don't know Jesus, the real monsters.

712
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,719
S8: Now they can fake it beautifully. Not true. They are

713
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,640
S8: their own God. They do not know Jesus. Oh. And

714
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,080
S8: so therefore, there is no hope for change. Absolutely not.

715
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,000
S8: Unless they come to Jesus and they're probably not going to.

716
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,680
S3: The word narcissist narcissism. I don't know that if I

717
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,239
S3: heard that word five times in my first 20 years

718
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,840
S3: of life, but boy oh boy do I hear it

719
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,719
S3: all the time now. Is that a Diagnosis. Is that

720
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,800
S3: something that we should be freely saying about other people?

721
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,120
S3: Is that something that's easily observable? Because if you look

722
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,520
S3: on social media, everybody's a narcissist nowadays.

723
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,360
S8: Boy, isn't that the truth. It's just exploded. And there's

724
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,880
S8: so many people on the air and in media who

725
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:27,799
S8: don't have the slightest clue. I mean, these are these

726
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,880
S8: are just amateurs, and they're spouting off this and that. No.

727
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,600
S8: You need. That's why the evaluation is so important. I'm

728
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:36,759
S8: not going to call anybody that until I've done a

729
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,880
S8: careful evaluation by the person living with that person who's

730
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,720
S8: who's who's telling me the truth. I know the questions

731
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:48,399
S8: to ask. Narcissism is a pattern of abusive behavior. This

732
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,399
S8: is a spectacularly selfish individual controlled by Satan. That gets

733
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,960
S8: to your point, Carl. Do they do not know Jesus?

734
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,279
S8: Satan and his demons are all over this person who

735
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,320
S8: slowly destroys his partner over time, or her partner and

736
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,880
S8: blames the partner for their destruction. That's a narcissist. I

737
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,830
S8: mean evil, yeah, Evil.

738
00:40:08,030 --> 00:40:11,830
S5: Uh, let's get into how this manifests itself. David. We've

739
00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:15,109
S5: got physical abuse. No brainer. Get out of there for

740
00:40:15,110 --> 00:40:17,989
S5: your own safety and for the welfare of everyone, including

741
00:40:17,989 --> 00:40:22,430
S5: the abuser. Uh, and then we have verbal abuse, which

742
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:28,870
S5: is brutal. And I, as a pastor, recommend separation. I

743
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:32,670
S5: never prescribe divorce. I believe the Scripture gives us a couple.

744
00:40:33,270 --> 00:40:35,589
S5: I'm going to use air quotes outs here. I do

745
00:40:35,590 --> 00:40:40,190
S5: believe God's a miracle worker, but when you have infidelity

746
00:40:40,190 --> 00:40:44,510
S5: and or abandonment, some of these physical and emotional abusers

747
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:49,030
S5: are they have essentially abandoned their spouse. I don't want

748
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:51,870
S5: to get mushy on this. I want to be clear, David.

749
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:55,270
S5: You don't prescribe divorce immediately. Don't. But you need to

750
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:58,150
S5: get some space there on these cases, correct?

751
00:40:58,190 --> 00:40:59,310
S9: Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

752
00:40:59,310 --> 00:41:02,790
S8: If at all possible. Physical separation is critical. A lot

753
00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:05,509
S8: of these ladies I talked to especially, they're codependent, they're

754
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:08,390
S8: trauma bonded. They are. They are just helpless. So it

755
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:11,230
S8: may take a year, 18 months, two years to to

756
00:41:11,270 --> 00:41:14,470
S8: really get strong enough to be able to make the break.

757
00:41:14,469 --> 00:41:17,830
S8: But first, I'm very careful on the evaluation because if

758
00:41:17,830 --> 00:41:20,109
S8: we have a marriage that's difficult, that's conflicted. I work

759
00:41:20,110 --> 00:41:22,190
S8: with those for 35, 40 years and we still do

760
00:41:22,230 --> 00:41:26,350
S8: on occasion. Okay, those can be saved. Both Christians, people

761
00:41:26,350 --> 00:41:28,710
S8: working towards it. Okay. I don't care what the mess is,

762
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:31,630
S8: but if you're with a monster, okay, that's a different story.

763
00:41:31,670 --> 00:41:34,830
S8: We're going to have a secret plan to get you out.

764
00:41:34,950 --> 00:41:37,190
S8: And these it's like these narcissists go to they go

765
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:39,310
S8: to the woods. There's camps in the woods where they

766
00:41:39,310 --> 00:41:41,950
S8: learn how to be one and they're all the same.

767
00:41:41,989 --> 00:41:45,430
S8: It's the same horrible stuff, but nobody knows it outside

768
00:41:45,430 --> 00:41:46,630
S8: the four walls of your home.

769
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:50,790
S3: Doctor Dave Clark with us right now, Christian psychologist, author.

770
00:41:51,230 --> 00:41:55,190
S3: He has written extensively, authored over 20 books. Coming up,

771
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:57,950
S3: let's dig in a little bit deeper because you're listening

772
00:41:57,950 --> 00:42:00,629
S3: and you're going, boy, this is strong language. But I'm

773
00:42:00,630 --> 00:42:04,300
S3: also hearing some things that maybe sound familiar? Or am

774
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:07,860
S3: I married to a narcissist? Let's talk about that. Coming up.

775
00:42:08,620 --> 00:42:12,380
S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.

776
00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:14,700
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.

777
00:42:14,940 --> 00:42:17,260
S3: Got a special guest with us this morning, doctor Dave Clark.

778
00:42:17,260 --> 00:42:22,460
S3: He's a Christian psychologist. Author. Define narcissist. How do I

779
00:42:22,460 --> 00:42:24,020
S3: know if I'm married to one?

780
00:42:24,420 --> 00:42:30,060
S8: It is an incredibly, spectacularly, amazingly selfish individual who's controlled

781
00:42:30,060 --> 00:42:34,299
S8: by Satan, who is destroying you step by step with

782
00:42:34,300 --> 00:42:37,939
S8: a pattern of abusive behavior. And I can go over

783
00:42:37,940 --> 00:42:38,820
S8: some of the categories.

784
00:42:38,860 --> 00:42:42,340
S5: Let's, let's, let's do that. Let's get some of those categories.

785
00:42:42,380 --> 00:42:45,900
S8: We have verbal abuse always. Now the covert is better rather,

786
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:48,660
S8: but the overt is going to really blast you. Personal attacks,

787
00:42:48,660 --> 00:42:52,620
S8: criticism of all types and description. You can't do anything.

788
00:42:52,620 --> 00:42:56,540
S8: You can't load the dishwasher correctly. You can't do the laundry.

789
00:42:56,860 --> 00:43:00,580
S8: It goes on. Bad mother, bad wife, never good enough.

790
00:43:01,060 --> 00:43:04,100
S8: Any kind of a decent, godly man would never treat

791
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:07,100
S8: his wife that way. I neglect your needs. I don't

792
00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,259
S8: care about your needs. That's your problem. Your job is

793
00:43:09,260 --> 00:43:11,660
S8: to meet my needs. There was a refusal to communicate.

794
00:43:11,940 --> 00:43:15,380
S8: This person will not talk about any issue he doesn't

795
00:43:15,380 --> 00:43:17,380
S8: want to talk about. Well, you can't have a marriage

796
00:43:17,380 --> 00:43:21,660
S8: under those circumstances. The silent treatment is one of the hallmarks.

797
00:43:21,860 --> 00:43:24,180
S8: I will cut you off. I will act like you

798
00:43:24,180 --> 00:43:29,020
S8: wouldn't exist for hours, days, weeks. Oh, my. That just

799
00:43:29,020 --> 00:43:32,140
S8: tears a woman to shreds. And there's no excuse for it,

800
00:43:32,180 --> 00:43:33,620
S8: of course, but he. And this is one of the

801
00:43:33,620 --> 00:43:37,020
S8: hallmarks to everything is your fault. When I'm silent treatment

802
00:43:37,020 --> 00:43:41,460
S8: to you, it's your fault. Everything is your fault. There's control.

803
00:43:41,860 --> 00:43:46,340
S8: There's there's there's there's anger outbursts. There's there's often sexual issues,

804
00:43:46,340 --> 00:43:49,940
S8: sexual abuse. And guess what? I'm also turning your kids

805
00:43:49,940 --> 00:43:53,060
S8: against you along the way here. It's nasty.

806
00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:56,140
S5: This is ringing a bell for a lot of people.

807
00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:59,540
S5: Too many. Quite candidly, right now, what is the first

808
00:43:59,540 --> 00:44:03,450
S5: step for someone that finds himself in this position.

809
00:44:03,730 --> 00:44:06,210
S8: I have to figure out if I'm in fact, with

810
00:44:06,210 --> 00:44:10,450
S8: a full blown narcissist. Someone with narcissistic traits in fact

811
00:44:10,450 --> 00:44:13,049
S8: can change and that person can know Jesus. But if

812
00:44:13,050 --> 00:44:15,410
S8: you get a full blown narc on your hands, uh,

813
00:44:15,570 --> 00:44:18,770
S8: he's not going to change. Almost certainly. So we got

814
00:44:18,810 --> 00:44:21,649
S8: to find out. Am I married to one? And that's

815
00:44:21,650 --> 00:44:26,050
S8: why Moody Publishers publish my book. Enough is enough. But

816
00:44:26,050 --> 00:44:30,850
S8: that will. The first six chapters are are specifically describing

817
00:44:30,850 --> 00:44:34,170
S8: a narcissist. So we know exactly what we're dealing with.

818
00:44:34,170 --> 00:44:37,250
S8: Once you know that, then you begin a plan of

819
00:44:37,250 --> 00:44:39,250
S8: healing yourself. You don't fool with the other. You don't

820
00:44:39,250 --> 00:44:41,250
S8: bother with marriage counseling. Waste of time with a guy

821
00:44:41,250 --> 00:44:45,010
S8: like this and a waste of money. You'll just snowball

822
00:44:45,010 --> 00:44:47,690
S8: the counselor and twist words and not even show up

823
00:44:47,690 --> 00:44:50,250
S8: half the time. So we're getting it to get you strong.

824
00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:52,210
S8: We're going to get you because you've given yourself up

825
00:44:52,210 --> 00:44:54,330
S8: to this person. We're going to get you back and

826
00:44:54,330 --> 00:44:55,969
S8: you're going to get strong. You're going to work with

827
00:44:55,969 --> 00:44:58,410
S8: the kids. Enough is enough covers a lot of that,

828
00:44:58,410 --> 00:45:01,170
S8: these steps of preparation to get away from him. But

829
00:45:01,170 --> 00:45:03,250
S8: first of all, I got to find out. And this

830
00:45:03,250 --> 00:45:05,609
S8: takes years to find out. Uh oh. This is what

831
00:45:05,610 --> 00:45:06,370
S8: I've got.

832
00:45:07,010 --> 00:45:09,930
S3: Doctor Dave Clark, give us a story. I know you

833
00:45:09,969 --> 00:45:13,970
S3: don't give us details, but help us to picture this

834
00:45:13,969 --> 00:45:15,250
S3: through a story.

835
00:45:16,690 --> 00:45:20,810
S8: Here's a lady. Been married for 25 years to a

836
00:45:20,810 --> 00:45:24,450
S8: narcissist and just. It's taken her just about 25 years

837
00:45:24,450 --> 00:45:28,050
S8: to figure it out because he's so good. He's so smooth.

838
00:45:28,050 --> 00:45:31,130
S8: Everybody loves him. Kids love him. Neighbors love him. He's

839
00:45:31,130 --> 00:45:34,370
S8: a servant. He treats her like garbage. But he's so

840
00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:36,529
S8: clever with his words that he twists things and it

841
00:45:36,530 --> 00:45:39,050
S8: makes it seem like it's her fault. Everything is her fault.

842
00:45:39,050 --> 00:45:42,050
S8: If only you would, Betty. Fill in the blank. Everything

843
00:45:42,050 --> 00:45:45,690
S8: would be different. He's calm, he's rational. So. But she's.

844
00:45:45,690 --> 00:45:49,170
S8: The light is just beginning to dawn. I talked to

845
00:45:49,170 --> 00:45:50,689
S8: this lady just recently. As a matter of fact, it's

846
00:45:50,690 --> 00:45:52,250
S8: described many ladies I talked to on the phone and

847
00:45:52,250 --> 00:45:54,969
S8: my phone advice sessions. But she's now figured out, uh oh,

848
00:45:55,450 --> 00:45:58,530
S8: my body is telling me I'm breaking down physically because

849
00:45:58,530 --> 00:46:03,239
S8: of the stress, the adrenaline rush, autoimmune disorders. I'm emotionally

850
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:08,080
S8: a wreck. Panic attacks, depression, anxiety of all types, fight

851
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,880
S8: or flight now and she's just starting to just starting

852
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,000
S8: to get it. We have a phone advice session. I

853
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,560
S8: refer to some materials to her. Enough is Enough is

854
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,879
S8: one of those. And now she's going, oh, I get it.

855
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:23,000
S8: And God is opening her eyes and it's always God's timing.

856
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,080
S8: She feels bad because she didn't leave before. But I say,

857
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,880
S8: don't worry, no regrets. We're going to get you out now.

858
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,960
S8: And she's going to take the steps she's going to take.

859
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,480
S8: In fact, this lady, it took her, I think a year,

860
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,680
S8: the one I'm talking about in my mind to get out. Wow.

861
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,160
S8: She frontloaded everything. She told this dirt ball nothing because

862
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,239
S8: you keep it a secret. And she left him. She

863
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:45,239
S8: took some kids and she left him. And they're going

864
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,280
S8: through divorce now. And it's not pretty, but she is

865
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:49,360
S8: going to be free.

866
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,920
S5: So I'm sensitive to the guys listening right now. I mean,

867
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,680
S5: very candidly, early on in my marriage relationship, I, I

868
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,919
S5: had some of those symptoms. I mean, I would filibuster

869
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,360
S5: my wife. I would come up with excuses. But there was,

870
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,640
S5: at the end of the day, um, a brokenness and

871
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,319
S5: a humility that God birthed within me, that I had

872
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,520
S5: to face it and see it and own it. I

873
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,560
S5: there's hope for. I'm thinking about any man or woman

874
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,280
S5: listening right now who goes, oh boy, some of that's me,

875
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,920
S5: but not in total because I'm still teachable and humble

876
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:30,799
S5: and I will break. Um, when I see tears, give

877
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:34,160
S5: encouragement to that person that's worth hanging in there and

878
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,799
S5: doing a deep dive on discipleship as a couple and

879
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:38,560
S5: getting counsel, is there not, David?

880
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,439
S8: Oh it is. And see that you've hit the nail

881
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:44,480
S8: on the head, Carl. That's the difference. I could tell

882
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:48,360
S8: you stories of our early marriage. Clueless. I was spoiled

883
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,320
S8: as a child anyway, but I learned. See, the difference

884
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,120
S8: is we are decent people. We do know Jesus. And

885
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,040
S8: we got it. And we broke and we repented. And

886
00:47:56,110 --> 00:47:58,670
S8: we went through a process of change. A good man

887
00:47:58,670 --> 00:48:01,350
S8: that will always happen with a good man with a

888
00:48:01,350 --> 00:48:03,350
S8: dirtball it ain't ever going to happen. But you're a

889
00:48:03,350 --> 00:48:06,830
S8: good person, man or woman, and we're all sinners. If

890
00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:10,669
S8: you will start working on yourself and drawing close to

891
00:48:10,670 --> 00:48:13,870
S8: the Lord and working on these areas. Oh, absolutely. You

892
00:48:13,870 --> 00:48:14,510
S8: can change.

893
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:17,509
S3: Our guest this morning, Doctor Dave Clark. This is a

894
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:20,230
S3: tough topic. And as you're listening, if some of this

895
00:48:20,230 --> 00:48:23,029
S3: is ringing true and you're not really sure where to turn,

896
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:24,509
S3: I want to give you a link that's going to

897
00:48:24,550 --> 00:48:29,270
S3: get get you access to resources to Doctor Clark's website.

898
00:48:29,590 --> 00:48:33,150
S3: He does offer those phone consultations. If you want to

899
00:48:33,510 --> 00:48:40,350
S3: get more information, just text enough to 800 555 7898.

900
00:48:40,390 --> 00:48:47,630
S3: Text enough to 800 555 7898. Doctor Clark, if a

901
00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:50,310
S3: woman or a man I want to be want to

902
00:48:50,310 --> 00:48:53,069
S3: be fair here, if feels like they may be in

903
00:48:53,070 --> 00:48:56,030
S3: a situation as you've described, who are the right people

904
00:48:56,030 --> 00:48:59,270
S3: to get around them? Because this is not a time

905
00:48:59,270 --> 00:49:01,870
S3: period to be walking in isolation.

906
00:49:02,469 --> 00:49:05,310
S8: Right. You need a solid support group of people who

907
00:49:05,350 --> 00:49:07,910
S8: who believe you, who love you, who believe you. And

908
00:49:07,910 --> 00:49:10,029
S8: I'm betting as you start telling the truth to these

909
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:14,670
S8: key people mom, dad, brother, sister, close friend, could could

910
00:49:14,670 --> 00:49:18,589
S8: be a pastor and they will believe you. And they'll say,

911
00:49:18,590 --> 00:49:21,029
S8: you know what? We've seen some things we're not sure,

912
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:23,750
S8: but we believe you. And they will believe you and

913
00:49:23,750 --> 00:49:25,910
S8: they will rally around you. Yeah. We don't we don't

914
00:49:25,950 --> 00:49:28,830
S8: this won't fight this battle alone. You're going to have

915
00:49:28,830 --> 00:49:30,790
S8: to have some key people. It's always a small group.

916
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:32,670
S8: There's a bunch of fence sitters and people that are

917
00:49:32,670 --> 00:49:35,390
S8: clueless or who just don't care. Or you can't trust,

918
00:49:35,390 --> 00:49:37,750
S8: maybe even in your own family. So we're very careful

919
00:49:37,750 --> 00:49:41,150
S8: with selecting these people, but these are your warriors because

920
00:49:41,150 --> 00:49:44,549
S8: you're going to war, to rebuild your life and to

921
00:49:44,590 --> 00:49:45,110
S8: get free.

922
00:49:46,030 --> 00:49:50,590
S5: Takes the word enough to 805, 55, 78, 98, enough

923
00:49:50,750 --> 00:49:54,350
S5: to 805, five, five, 78, 98.