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S1: Welcome to our Monday edition of Chris Fabry Live. The

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S1: program From the Heart to the heart for the heart.

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S1: Today at the Radio Backyard Fence, two guests who are

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S1: going to help you with one of the most important

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S1: opportunities you have as a parent or perhaps as a grandparent.

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S1: And that is teaching your children to love God's Word,

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S1: showing them your own desire to know God so that

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S1: they catch that from you. So that it's not just taught,

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S1: but caught in today's busy world with all the distractions

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S1: for your attention and for your children's. That is a

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S1: tall order. And many parents feel overwhelmed, not equipped, or

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S1: maybe a little timid in this area. And her two M's,

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S1: Melissa and Michael, they have come up with a resource

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S1: that we're going to talk about today, and we begin

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S1: with a thank you to our team behind the scenes,

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S1: Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. Trish is our producer.

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S1: Lisa is helping out. Josh will be answering your calls today.

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S1: And if you are a parent and you're right in

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S1: the middle of this and you have a question, we'd

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S1: love to hear from you. But I also want to

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S1: thank those who supported us thus far in May. Like Megan,

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S1: who did that even today. Thank you. Megan in Michigan.

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S1: She said, I love the God honoring conversations I hear

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S1: regularly on the program. Thank you for being faithful to

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S1: his Word, and I appreciate finding resources like this book

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S1: on praying scripture. She's talking about our thank you this month,

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S1: which is powerful self-talk from the Psalms. And I would

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S1: love to send you a copy as you spend 40

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S1: days changing your mind, changing the things that you often

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S1: say to yourself that aren't true. Give a gift of

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S1: any size or become a monthly supporter. You can find

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S1: out how to do that at the website. Chris Fabry. FABRY.

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S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Chris fabriclive.org. Or the numbers Faber (866) 953-2279.

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S1: And thanks for your support of the Radio Backyard fence.

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S1: Now here they are the two M's. First is Melissa Kruger,

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S1: vice president of discipleship programming at the Gospel Coalition, author

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S1: of a number of books, including but Not Limited to

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S1: Growing Together, Walking with God in the Season of Motherhood

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S1: and the children's book Wherever You Go, I Want You

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S1: to Know. Her husband, Mike, is the. Well, we'll tell

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S1: you who Mike is here in a minute, but Melissa, welcome.

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S1: How are you doing today?

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S2: Doing well. Thanks so much for having us.

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S1: The Mike and Michael Kruger is Doctor Kruger. He's president.

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S1: And Samuel C Patterson, professor of New Testament and early

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S1: Christianity at Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, and

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S1: a leading scholar on the origins and development of the

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S1: New Testament canon. He loaded the New Testament canon, and

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S1: he's going to join us today. Doctor Kruger, how are

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S1: you doing today?

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S3: Thanks, Chris, I appreciate that. Great to be with you.

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S1: The resource that they have put together for you and

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S1: me is the Good News family devotional 52 weeks through

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S1: the gospel of Mark featured resource. Just click through today@chris.org.

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S1: Chris fabry.org. Okay, so let's jump right into this. The God.

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S1: Why did you choose Melissa? The gospel of Mark.

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S2: Well, to be honest, that's probably a better question for

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S2: Mike because I feel like he won in the the war.

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S2: Of which gospel should we pick in the family? Um,

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S2: I have always loved the Gospel of John. We actually

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S2: named one of our our son is named John. Um,

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S2: but as we were really discussing which gospel is really

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S2: accessible to kids, where can you jump in? And all

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S2: the action just starts right away. Um, the gospel of

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S2: Mark is a wonderful place to begin. And I have

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S2: come even through this process to just love this gospel

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S2: so much. It's one that's maybe not picked picked as

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S2: much as others, even in sermon series and things. And now, um, it's, it's,

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S2: it's a close second for me. It's still, I'm still,

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S2: you know, I'm still partial to John, but my husband

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S2: has convinced me of so many of the merits and

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S2: good things in the gospel of Mark.

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S1: I, I'm with you on the Gospel of John because

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S1: and that was one of the questions I had for

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S1: you is like, I wonder why Mark didn't include Lazarus

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S1: in there? Because John 11 is one of my favorite chapters.

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S1: But so, and the other thing is, is Mark starts

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S1: with M. So we got Melissa, Michael, and Mark. Uh,

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S1: so Doctor Kruger, what do you say? Why? Mark.

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S3: Yeah. I mean, Melissa captured it well. I mean, I

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S3: consider Mark the underdog of the Gospels. And by that

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S3: I think he's overlooked and underappreciated. And there's so much

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S3: treasure there. One of the things I love about this

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S3: Bible study actually, is It uncovers some of those hidden

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S3: treasures and marks, I think. And Mark. And that makes

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S3: that exciting. The other thing that makes Mark so good

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S3: for a family devotional is, of course, you're face to

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S3: face with the person of Jesus, but the way that

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S3: narrative clicks along in Mark, it's sort of what I

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S3: call the action movies of action movie of the Gospels.

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S3: You know, it's a scene after scene, story after story.

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S3: Each of them is brief and to the point makes

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S3: for excellent discussions and concrete, uh, sort of boundaries to

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S3: stories for families and kids. And so it's, I think

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S3: it's going to work great.

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S1: Yeah. It's an action is. And then suddenly and suddenly

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S1: this happened. And immediately he did, you know, it was like,

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S1: it is, it is like you're watching kind of an

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S1: action movie. And I wonder how much of that because Mark,

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S1: we've we've known and you know, that Mark got a

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S1: lot of what he knew firsthand from Peter. Is that right,

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S1: Doctor Kruger?

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S3: That's exactly right. Um, the early church is quite uniform in,

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S3: in agreeing that the material in Mark is basically Peter's remembrances.

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S3: And there's all kinds of internal indicators that when you're

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S3: reading Mark, you're effectively reading Peter's account. And so that

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S3: makes it fun too, because most of our writings of

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S3: the New Testament are from a variety of apostles, but

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S3: we have very few things directly from Peter. And people

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S3: don't realize that Mark is one of those things that

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S3: I think ultimately does go back to Peter.

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S1: So, Melissa, did you go through this with your own children?

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S1: Because I know they're adult young adults now. Did you

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S1: go through Mark with them, or was this something that

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S1: you two developed after the fact after going through your

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S1: childhood with your kids?

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S2: Yeah, actually, I got to sit in on a women's

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S2: Bible study that Reformed Theological Seminary hosted, where Mike taught

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S2: the gospel of Mark over two years. And so we

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S2: actually didn't get to do it in our family because

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S2: they had already left by the time he was doing it.

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S2: So it was not it was not unfortunately, we didn't

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S2: get to study this together. Um, but I did get

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S2: to sit over a long time. I think it was

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S2: maybe how many how many classes was it, hon? 50.

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S3: Uh, it was close to 40, I think, before it

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S3: was okay. Yeah.

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S2: Okay. Okay. And so it was a lot of getting

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S2: to study it. And then we worked on this resource.

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S2: We were like, oh, we could take this and make

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S2: it a devotional for families. So I would say this

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S2: devotional is in the style of what we did in

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S2: the home, but we realized a lot of families just

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S2: did not feel equipped to do this on their own.

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S2: And so we wanted to create a resource to make

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S2: it easier for families to be able to do it

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S2: on their own.

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S1: Yes. So it's called the Good News Family devotional, 52

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S1: weeks through the gospel of Mark. It's our featured resource

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S1: at Chris fabry.org. And when we come back, I have

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S1: tons of questions. But if you have one, if you

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S1: have a child that just doesn't read well, or you

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S1: have a teenager who's kind of checked out, how do

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S1: you do this? Here's our number eight, seven, (877) 548-3675 more

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S1: straight ahead. We are talking with the Krugers. Kruger the

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S1: Krugers today at the Radio Backyard fence. President of Reformed

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S1: Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, doctor Michael Kruger and

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S1: Melissa Kruger is vice president of discipleship programming at the

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S1: Gospel Coalition, and they have written together the Good News

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S1: Family devotional 52 weeks through the gospel of Mark featured

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S1: resource at Chris Fabry live.org. Okay, so big question. Big,

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S1: big over flyover question is why family devotions? What is

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S1: the purpose of this? Because I see in a lot

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S1: of parents there is this all the deconstruction that's going on.

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S1: I want my children to grow up and be. Or

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S1: grandchildren to be believers and then make it through. And

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S1: so what is. What is the purpose? First you Doctor Kruger.

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S3: Yeah. I mean, there's many purposes and there's many reasons

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S3: we do it. I think I'll start with the first

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S3: and most obvious one is that God lays out this

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S3: as the primary thing he wants parents to do. So

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S3: you think about Deuteronomy six, where we're told as parents

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S3: to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind,

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S3: and strength, and those commands of God are to be

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S3: on our hearts first as parents. So the first job

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S3: as parents is not to teach their kids. Their first

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S3: job as parents is to love God. However, right after that,

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S3: if the law of God is on our hearts, our

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S3: command is that we teach it to our children and

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S3: impress it upon them. And so God obviously has a

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S3: plan for the family. He has a plan for parents.

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S3: And there's many things that we're obligated to do as parents.

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S3: But one of those obligations, and I would really say privileges,

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S3: is to pass along God's Word to our children, and

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S3: we have to recognize why God does this. And that's

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S3: because the family unit is the primary way that that

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S3: God's word is passed down from generation to generation. And

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S3: even though we don't think sometimes it works very well,

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S3: all the statistics show actually it does work. The most

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S3: influential thing on a child's spiritual life. Despite all we

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S3: think ends up ultimately being their parents.

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S1: That's. And that's both a comfort and a challenge. Right, Melissa?

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S3: That's right.

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S4: It is.

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S2: It is, it is a challenge. And you know, what

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S2: I would say is here's here's what we know. We

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S2: cannot make a child believe, but what we can do

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S2: is give them what is able to make them wise

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S2: for salvation. And when Paul is writing to Timothy and

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S2: he's talking about his mother and his grandmother, he said,

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S2: you've known the Holy Scriptures since infancy. And so we

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S2: see this pattern that, you know, it's not that a

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S2: parent can. We can't make anyone believe. You know, God

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S2: has to give us a new heart. He has to

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S2: save us. Um, but the, the scriptures by putting our children,

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S2: by letting them know the scriptures, we're giving them something

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S2: that is able to make them wise for salvation. And

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S2: I would say this is the rich inheritance that we're

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S2: passing on from generation to generation. I think so often

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S2: we consider that to be monetary wealth or something like that.

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S2: And I'm like, oh no, it's the treasure that all

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S2: the treasure that's hidden in Christ and where it's found

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S2: in His word. This is the rich inheritance, as Christian

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S2: parents that we get to pass down to our children. Now, look,

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S2: they might be in their 20s completely rejecting that inheritance

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S2: in their 30s. They might reject that inheritance. But here's

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S2: the thing. If we put it in their hearts young,

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S2: it's there. And so maybe when they're 45 and they,

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S2: they find themselves just in a life that they never

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S2: thought they'd be in, and they remember the truths they

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S2: were taught young. It's able to make them wise for

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S2: salvation at 45 or at 65. And so that's the

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S2: gift we have the opportunity to pass.

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S1: Very well said. It's very and it's very comforting to hear. But, Michael,

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S1: what I have observed through the years is parents who

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S1: have done everything that they're in the church. There's Sunday

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S1: school with their kids, their kids in Sunday school, they're

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S1: doing devotions, they're home schooling. They're doing all these things,

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S1: believing that doing all of this means an outcome of

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S1: fill in the blank. You know, kids who are faithful,

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S1: who love God and read the scriptures and are fully

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S1: devoted followers. But the outcome is not I mean, as

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S1: Melissa just said, you can give the a basic understanding

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S1: and live this before them. But we we don't we

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S1: aren't in charge of the outcome. Talk about that, Michael.

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S3: Yeah. Sometimes we have this idea that it's sort of

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S3: like mathematics. If you do X and Y, you get Z.

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S3: You know that it all adds up and it's inevitable.

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S3: And of course, the Bible doesn't say that. And spiritual

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S3: things don't work like that. It's not it's not a

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S3: guarantee in the way we we tend to think it is.

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S3: If you just take certain steps, you get the outcome

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S3: you desire. Here's the problem, though, is because it's not automatic.

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S3: Some people make the opposite mistake and they say, well,

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S3: because it doesn't guarantee my kids will be saved, therefore

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S3: it doesn't matter. And I would say, no, no, don't, don't,

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S3: don't make the opposite mistake. Yeah. It doesn't guarantee salvation,

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S3: but it's far from not mattering. As Melissa said, it's

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S3: the primary way by which people hear the gospel through

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S3: God's Word and can be saved, but also begins to

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S3: create a family culture. And this is this is the

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S3: thing people don't realize is that when you study the

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S3: Word of God together, it's not just simply that you

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S3: learn things as if you're just gaining information. It changes

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S3: the family. It changes your family culture and your family dynamics.

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S3: It doesn't always lead to everyone's salvation, but it really

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S3: shapes and directs the future of your family and what

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S3: you value and what you love and what you're about,

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S3: and that that can bring great blessing over long periods

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S3: of time. So I just encourage parents to, to think

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S3: big picture here. Yeah, there's not an automatic mathematical way

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S3: of thinking about this, but this very much matters. Just

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S3: like other things in our lives matter. And we're really,

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S3: really sowing fruit for the long run.

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S1: I in the introduction, I was so encouraged with this

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S1: sentence and I'll give you even the punctuation. AIM for patterns, comma,

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S1: not perfection. Period. AIM for patterns, not perfection. Melissa. What

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S1: does that mean?

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S2: Well, I think that sometimes we think, oh, I, you know, I, we,

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S2: we do family devotions two days and then we miss

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S2: three days and we just give up completely. And what

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S2: we want to create is not a home that is

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S2: overly rigid where we're yelling at everyone to come be

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S2: miserable and sit down at the table and study God's

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S2: Word together. We want to actually just invite them to

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S2: a time and say, this is really important as a family.

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S2: And what our kids aren't going to remember is that

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S2: we perfectly did things, but they are going to remember

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S2: the pattern of our home. Did we regularly pray for

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S2: one another? Did we regularly read the Bible together? That

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S2: pattern is what they remember. And I think when we

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S2: aim for perfection, look, some days the kids don't get

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S2: up and everybody's running late and you miss a day.

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S2: That's okay. Um, we can absorb all of that as

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S2: a family. So we don't want to be overly rigid

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S2: and nor do we want to make devotions. You know, this, uh,

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S2: I know we all hate this, but everybody, let's sit

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S2: down and do it. We want to make this a

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S2: great time where kids actually feel really cared for. And

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S2: we're excited to be there as parents. And I think

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S2: that really can exist. Um, and it's a great opportunity

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S2: we have as parents.

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S1: And isn't treating. no matter what age the child is,

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S1: treating them with respect and asking them to join the

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S1: conversation with an observation, or that can really open up

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S1: a child's heart to say, hey mom, dad, they want

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S1: to know what I think about this and not to

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S1: pat them on the head. You know, with a great observation, Michael,

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S1: you probably have learned some things or seen some things

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S1: in Scripture because your children have seen them, right?

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S3: Oh my. Yes. This is one of the wonderful things

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S3: about studying the Bible in community. And by the way,

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S3: the family is sort of the first layer of community,

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S3: but then we can study the Bible beyond that, in

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S3: the church and home, Bible studies and so on with

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S3: other adults. But the point is, is that when you

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S3: study the Bible together as a group, you learn from

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S3: one another, um, insights that people make you hadn't seen

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S3: or thought of. And sometimes people get the impression that since,

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S3: you know, I do this for a living, so to speak,

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S3: as a, as a professor that I don't ever notice

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S3: things I hadn't seen before. but. But that's not true.

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S3: My kids have said so many things about scripture that

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S3: I'm like, wow, I never looked at it from that angle.

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S3: And so that's, that's one of the beauties of, of the,

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S3: of the family dynamic. When you study the Bible is

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S3: that you, you, you see it horizontally, you encourage one another,

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S3: you change one another and you affect one another. Here's

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S3: the other thing is that we designed this study to

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S3: get the kids involved. We think kids. There's times when

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S3: you sit and just listen, okay, that's fine. And that

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S3: happens a lot in children's lives. But there's also times

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S3: to be to be included. And this is one of

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S3: those things we really want to remind the parents is

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S3: that you're just not sitting down and talking to your

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S3: kid for 30 minutes as if you're giving them a sermon. We're, we're,

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S3: we've created questions and discussion opportunities in this study that

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S3: really encourage kids to participate themselves and to say what

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S3: they see in the passage and what sticks out to them.

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S3: And that really makes all the difference in terms of

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S3: their learning.

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S1: Yes. But it can become because, you know, president of

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S1: Reformed Theological Seminary. And then Melissa, vice president of discipleship

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S1: programming at the Gospel Coalition. It can be. If I

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S1: were a child in your home, I would think mom

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S1: and dad. They've studied this a lot longer, and I'm

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S1: never going to know everything that they know. So you

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S1: can become kind of the know it all. Well, why

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S1: is this? And and then you as the dad or mom,

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S1: you can respond and, and give back up the truck

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S1: of instruction and, you know, give them everything. I would

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S1: think that would be really hard for people who are

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S1: steeped in Scripture to hold back and not give everything

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S1: that you know. Michael, what do you say to that?

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S3: Yeah. Well, this is one of the running jokes in

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S3: our family is that is that I think our kids

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S3: are regularly unimpressed with, with me in terms of my

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S3: Bible scholarship. You know, every once in a while they'll

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S3: ask a question like, dad, is that it? Is that

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S3: all you got? So yeah, I suppose intimidation is one possibility.

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S3: But the funny thing in our home is I think

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S3: our kids are sort of rather unimpressed. And I would

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S3: just say this is that, yeah, every parent is going

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S3: to be in a different place in terms of their,

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S3: their teaching, their kids. But one of the things we,

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S3: we think is so important about family Bible studies is

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S3: that it's an opportunity for kids to see that their

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S3: parents are real people. You know, they don't know everything.

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S3: They don't have all the answers. They sometimes they make mistakes,

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S3: sometimes they fall short. And it's that, that sense of,

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S3: of we're all in this together that really can be

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S3: transformative for a family and actually unite a parent with

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S3: their children in ways that, that they wouldn't be united

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S3: if it was just one directional. And so that's, that's

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S3: what I think is so special about this.

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S1: Melissa, what do you say to that?

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S2: Yeah, I actually think one thing we both tried to

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S2: do and is true of us is to position ourselves

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S2: as fellow learners. We're walking alongside them. We're learning with them.

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S2: We have to apply the scriptures to our everyday life,

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S2: just like they have to apply the scriptures to their life.

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S2: I think it's really important for parents to model. Actually,

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S2: I am a. I am learning to. I am walking

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S2: with God and I want you to walk with God.

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S2: And I think that type of just openness with our

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S2: kids is, is actually something that you can all connect on. Oh,

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S2: mom and dad are applying this to their life too.

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S2: They have to actually think about how to be kind

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S2: and loving and gentle. Um, it's not just me, you know,

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S2: I think sometimes kids can really get down on themselves

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S2: thinking my parents are always on me to change. And

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S2: when they actually say, no, we're all in this process

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S2: of sanctification. We're all growing in the knowledge of Christ. Um,

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S2: that's good for them to see and to recognize that

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S2: we're not perfect either. And we're still learning about the faith.

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S1: What if there's conflict in the family? Have you ever

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S1: had this happen in your, when your kids were younger,

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S1: where there was something that was going on and you

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S1: had devotions and you felt like you needed to stop

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S1: as mom or dad or one of the kids said,

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S1: I need to. I need to apologize. Or the walls

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S1: were broken down because you're looking into the scriptures, Melissa.

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S1: Did anything like that ever happen?

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S2: Well, what I would say is studying the scriptures together

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S2: gave us a springboard later throughout the day when situations

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S2: would arise. And one thing I'm very big on, and

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S2: Mike is too, is, uh, as adults, we need to

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S2: be the first people to apologize when we make mistakes. Um,

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S2: and our kids, part of one thing they should learn

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S2: from a parent is how to give a good apology,

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S2: not because we've taught them how to give one, but

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S2: because we've modeled how to give one, because we are

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S2: making mistakes every day as we parent. Um, and one

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S2: thing I can say is I've watched our kids, especially

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S2: as they've grown in age, they really know how to say, hey,

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S2: I'm sorry that I said it that way. Um, I'm

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S2: sorry I did that. I shouldn't have been so snippy

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S2: about that or whatever. And so I can say the

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S2: studying of the scriptures together, when you talk about it

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S2: in theory, then it gives you something to help when

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S2: you're trying to apply it in real life. Like you

402
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S2: can go back and say, hey, remember that story we

403
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S2: were studying? I feel really convicted when I think about

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S2: it because I didn't do this like that passage told

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S2: me to do it. And so it just allows it

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S2: to come into the day and be really alive in

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S2: your home.

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S1: Mike, did you ever get snippy and have to and

409
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S1: have to apologize?

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S3: Oh, of course not. Never. Yeah. Um, we were perfect parents. No. Yeah.

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S3: I mean, you know, sometimes you would get snippy throughout

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S3: the day, but sometimes you would even get snippy in

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S3: the Bible study, you know? And as parents, we're trying

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S3: to get our kids to sit down and to listen.

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S3: And sometimes you don't always do that the way we

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S3: ought to do that. And that's an opportunity to, to

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S3: apologize on the spot. But but I think one of

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S3: the things that that studying the Bible does is it

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S3: just creates that family culture. Again, a family culture that

420
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S3: is steeped in God's word is quick to listen to God,

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S3: and then it listens to the word of the Holy

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S3: Spirit when the. When the spirit is convicting you. And

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S3: so I think when you have that dynamic happen, then

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S3: I think family conflict does get resolved, um, more readily.

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S3: It doesn't have to get resolved in the actual Bible study,

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S3: but I think the actual Bible study lays the foundation

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S3: for getting it resolved. And I think that's, that's really

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S3: why we've really been blessed to see the fruit of

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S3: it over many years.

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S1: It's called the Good News Family devotional, 52 weeks through

431
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S1: the gospel of Mark. It's by the Krugers. You can

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S1: find it@kris.org. Chris fabry.org. What I have seen through the

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S1: years is a lot of times the the wife is

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S1: more further down the road spiritually than the husband, and

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S1: the husband feels a little more inadequate. This is not

436
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S1: every time, but sometimes this happens. So it's like, okay,

437
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S1: so the, the man, the dad feels like, well, I

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S1: got to pick up the mantle here and I got

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S1: to move forward. And that's not necessarily true. If if

440
00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:37,750
S1: the mom has an ability to, you know, study the

441
00:23:38,150 --> 00:23:42,790
S1: the of Mark chapter one for that week more than

442
00:23:42,790 --> 00:23:46,429
S1: he does. She can start, he can read, they can

443
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:50,990
S1: do this together rather than the man always has to

444
00:23:50,990 --> 00:23:53,270
S1: take the lead. Mike, what do you say to that?

445
00:23:54,109 --> 00:23:56,270
S3: No, I think that's exactly right. I mean, one of

446
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:58,390
S3: the things that we want to emphasize to parents is

447
00:23:58,390 --> 00:24:02,990
S3: that you're doing this together. Husbands and wives, mom and

448
00:24:02,990 --> 00:24:05,669
S3: dads together. One of the things about this Bible study

449
00:24:05,670 --> 00:24:08,670
S3: that I think is unique, this devotional is that it's

450
00:24:08,670 --> 00:24:11,830
S3: from a mom and a dad, and we thought that

451
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:15,189
S3: was very important to show that, look, you know, you're

452
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:16,630
S3: doing this as a team and when you do something

453
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:19,550
S3: as a team, you look for people's distinctive strengths and

454
00:24:19,550 --> 00:24:21,790
S3: what they're good at. One parent may be good at

455
00:24:21,869 --> 00:24:24,189
S3: more of the sort of teaching side. Another parent may

456
00:24:24,230 --> 00:24:28,450
S3: be better at the discussion side. Um, there's different aspects

457
00:24:28,450 --> 00:24:31,130
S3: of trying to get the kids involved. So I would

458
00:24:31,130 --> 00:24:33,290
S3: tell families don't, don't try to put a one size

459
00:24:33,290 --> 00:24:36,490
S3: fits all on this where you have this idealistic sort

460
00:24:36,490 --> 00:24:39,770
S3: of traditionalistic view of what family devotions must look like

461
00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:42,210
S3: and that now you're just trying to, you know, sort

462
00:24:42,210 --> 00:24:45,290
S3: of squash everything in your family into that mold. Um,

463
00:24:45,290 --> 00:24:47,610
S3: I think every family can look different. I think the

464
00:24:47,609 --> 00:24:50,090
S3: real issue here is just that as a family, mom

465
00:24:50,090 --> 00:24:53,250
S3: and dad together encouraged this in their home and that

466
00:24:53,250 --> 00:24:55,810
S3: the kids can see that of all things. Our parents

467
00:24:55,850 --> 00:24:58,410
S3: loved God's Word and that when we leave the house

468
00:24:58,410 --> 00:25:00,970
S3: one day, that's one of the major values we take

469
00:25:00,970 --> 00:25:01,530
S3: with us.

470
00:25:01,570 --> 00:25:04,290
S1: Yes. Okay, so the big question then we're at the

471
00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:06,609
S1: halfway point of the program. The big question is, okay,

472
00:25:06,650 --> 00:25:08,530
S1: so how do we do this? How do you how

473
00:25:08,530 --> 00:25:11,370
S1: do you work through this or answer that question and

474
00:25:11,369 --> 00:25:14,250
S1: more in our next segment. And if you have a

475
00:25:14,250 --> 00:25:20,570
S1: question or a comment, (877) 548-3675. Is there anybody who's listening

476
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:24,010
S1: who tried this and it just didn't work. Why didn't

477
00:25:24,010 --> 00:25:27,390
S1: it work? Did you have a squirmy young child, or

478
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:29,550
S1: a teenager who was kind of checked out and they

479
00:25:29,550 --> 00:25:31,710
S1: didn't want this, and you felt like you were just

480
00:25:31,710 --> 00:25:38,230
S1: checking a box. Want to hear from you. Eight. 775483675.

481
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:41,790
S1: Melissa Kruger and Michael Kruger have put together the Good

482
00:25:41,790 --> 00:25:45,790
S1: News Family devotional 52 weeks through the gospel of Mark.

483
00:25:46,270 --> 00:26:05,190
S1: Featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org. Chris. Favorite for. Family devotions.

484
00:26:05,190 --> 00:26:07,950
S1: It sounds great, but how do you do it? That's

485
00:26:07,950 --> 00:26:10,430
S1: why Melissa and Michael Kruger put together the Good News

486
00:26:10,430 --> 00:26:14,670
S1: Family devotional 52 weeks through the gospel of Mark. It's

487
00:26:14,670 --> 00:26:17,710
S1: our featured resource. Hey, if you're older and you don't

488
00:26:17,710 --> 00:26:20,950
S1: have any kids or even grandkids, go through this yourself.

489
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:25,210
S1: It'll help you. But we're especially looking at what it

490
00:26:25,210 --> 00:26:28,530
S1: will do in a family system. And I got all

491
00:26:28,530 --> 00:26:32,330
S1: kinds of questions here today how to do it. Okay.

492
00:26:32,369 --> 00:26:35,850
S1: So do you do you do this five days a week?

493
00:26:35,890 --> 00:26:38,810
S1: Do you do it three days a week with all the, of,

494
00:26:38,850 --> 00:26:43,730
S1: you know, traveling, uh, sports things and you got little

495
00:26:43,730 --> 00:26:47,250
S1: league and skating and, and music, you know, all of

496
00:26:47,250 --> 00:26:50,609
S1: the stuff that just fills up our lives. How do

497
00:26:50,609 --> 00:26:52,369
S1: you do it? Melissa? You first.

498
00:26:53,530 --> 00:26:58,690
S2: Well, my biggest encouragement to families is to start young. If,

499
00:26:58,690 --> 00:27:00,889
S2: if that's an option, if you have young kids, I

500
00:27:00,890 --> 00:27:03,930
S2: always say start as soon as you can because the

501
00:27:03,970 --> 00:27:07,370
S2: habits of the home, um, if they're started young, they

502
00:27:07,369 --> 00:27:11,410
S2: just become easier to continue. And, and that's what we

503
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:14,050
S2: had the benefit of doing with our kids. So we

504
00:27:14,050 --> 00:27:16,930
S2: would just, Mike would normally read, you know, a Bible

505
00:27:16,930 --> 00:27:20,410
S2: story or something like that every evening when they were young.

506
00:27:20,450 --> 00:27:24,149
S2: And then that eventually translated, transferred into reading the Bible

507
00:27:24,150 --> 00:27:27,550
S2: together as a family. And so we did when they

508
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:29,870
S2: were young. We did it in the evenings, and as

509
00:27:29,910 --> 00:27:33,109
S2: our kids got into school and had a lot of sports,

510
00:27:33,109 --> 00:27:36,709
S2: we actually started doing ten minutes at the breakfast table. Um,

511
00:27:36,710 --> 00:27:38,989
S2: and we would read the Bible together and then we

512
00:27:38,990 --> 00:27:41,710
S2: would pray for one another and then we'd head out

513
00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:44,869
S2: for our days. Um, but I think some families, they're

514
00:27:44,869 --> 00:27:46,790
S2: in a situation where all their kids are on different

515
00:27:46,790 --> 00:27:49,350
S2: school times and different things like that. And so I

516
00:27:49,350 --> 00:27:52,390
S2: think we just need to do what works best for

517
00:27:52,390 --> 00:27:56,109
S2: the family situation you have. It might be better to say, hey,

518
00:27:56,350 --> 00:27:58,350
S2: we can't do ten minutes a day, but we could

519
00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:01,230
S2: do an hour on Sunday afternoon. Let's choose to do

520
00:28:01,230 --> 00:28:04,870
S2: that with our Sabbath day. Um, it could be Saturday morning.

521
00:28:04,869 --> 00:28:08,909
S2: Works well for your family. Maybe. Maybe that's a better day. But, um,

522
00:28:08,910 --> 00:28:11,709
S2: I think really thinking through your schedule and looking at it,

523
00:28:11,710 --> 00:28:13,830
S2: and I do want to say this, if your schedule

524
00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:16,790
S2: is so busy that you couldn't find an hour a week,

525
00:28:17,270 --> 00:28:20,070
S2: then might be good to think through what is our

526
00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:24,660
S2: schedule and we might need to stop doing something so

527
00:28:24,660 --> 00:28:27,540
S2: we can make sure we're keeping space for what's the

528
00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:28,900
S2: most important thing.

529
00:28:29,140 --> 00:28:32,300
S1: Okay, so you just mentioned the prayer angle of this

530
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:37,460
S1: and the aspect. Melissa, did you ever hear anything from

531
00:28:37,460 --> 00:28:40,660
S1: your kids as they were growing up? You know, pray,

532
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:43,940
S1: pray for me for this that you might not have

533
00:28:43,940 --> 00:28:48,180
S1: heard if you hadn't had that time together and them

534
00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:50,340
S1: feeling comfortable with all of that.

535
00:28:51,060 --> 00:28:54,100
S2: Absolutely. You know, I really find that when you ask

536
00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:56,500
S2: the question to anyone, even a good friend, you know,

537
00:28:56,540 --> 00:28:59,020
S2: you could have a whole coffee with a friend and

538
00:28:59,020 --> 00:29:00,900
S2: then all of a sudden you say, hey, is there

539
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:03,540
S2: anything I can pray for you about? And then you, you,

540
00:29:03,580 --> 00:29:06,340
S2: you find out they're dealing with this huge thing and

541
00:29:06,340 --> 00:29:08,260
S2: you just spend an hour having coffee with them and

542
00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:10,980
S2: you totally missed it. And I definitely think that happens

543
00:29:10,980 --> 00:29:14,820
S2: with our families sometimes. We're so busy living our lives

544
00:29:14,820 --> 00:29:17,340
S2: that we never take the time to ask what's really

545
00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:20,740
S2: weighing on our kids heart. And so I think having

546
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,600
S2: that time where you say, hey, um, today is Emma's day. Hey, Emma,

547
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,000
S2: what are your prayer requests for the week? Sometimes we

548
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,040
S2: uncovered stuff, like they were really stressed about a test

549
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,520
S2: that was coming up, or maybe there was a friendship

550
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,880
S2: that wasn't going well, and it allowed us that time

551
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,719
S2: to just say, hey, we can't solve this, but we

552
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:41,920
S2: can take it to the Lord in prayer with you.

553
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,240
S1: And then if you do that in breakfast in the morning,

554
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,280
S1: then whenever they see each other. Hey, how'd it go, Emma,

555
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,800
S1: with the test or the. So you're not forcing, but

556
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,840
S1: you're allowing those connections to be made when they might

557
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,000
S1: not be made. Mike, what do you say to that?

558
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,440
S3: That's that's absolutely correct. And so one of the things

559
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,720
S3: that we've been able to enjoy as we look back

560
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,720
S3: over the many years when we had kids, is to

561
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,720
S3: see the fruit of some of this. You know, I

562
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,680
S3: know that parents are in different spots as they listen

563
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,120
S3: to this radio program. Some of them have young kids,

564
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,280
S3: some of them have teenagers, and they don't have a

565
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,000
S3: chance yet to kind of look back. But when you're

566
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,780
S3: when you're in the middle of something, you can't always

567
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:24,140
S3: see the fruit it's producing. It's not always obvious kind

568
00:30:24,140 --> 00:30:27,380
S3: of what you're gaining and changing. But when we look back,

569
00:30:27,380 --> 00:30:29,460
S3: one of the things that we've seen about our, our

570
00:30:29,460 --> 00:30:32,020
S3: family time in the word is that our relationships between

571
00:30:32,020 --> 00:30:35,300
S3: our children really thrived. So they began to talk to

572
00:30:35,340 --> 00:30:38,740
S3: each other about spiritual things. They began to talk to

573
00:30:38,780 --> 00:30:42,900
S3: each other about, uh, prayer needs. They began to encourage

574
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,979
S3: one another without us even there. And when you get

575
00:30:45,980 --> 00:30:48,300
S3: to a point where that starts happening now, you've really

576
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,300
S3: begun to see the fruit of, of those many years

577
00:30:51,340 --> 00:30:54,180
S3: of those family times, because now you've created a family

578
00:30:54,180 --> 00:30:57,180
S3: bond between the siblings, and that family bond between the

579
00:30:57,180 --> 00:31:00,180
S3: siblings will last for years and years and years, long

580
00:31:00,180 --> 00:31:02,900
S3: after we're gone as parents, and then it will be

581
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,820
S3: passed on to their children. So I just can't even

582
00:31:05,860 --> 00:31:07,940
S3: think about how to measure that. How how would you

583
00:31:07,940 --> 00:31:10,860
S3: even measure the impact of that over a long time,

584
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:13,540
S3: over long generations? But I think it does come from

585
00:31:13,540 --> 00:31:16,260
S3: being in Bible studies together and prayer time together and,

586
00:31:16,580 --> 00:31:19,920
S3: and times where you really, uh, you know, are being

587
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,880
S3: more open and honest about, about your situation and about

588
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,040
S3: what you need spiritually.

589
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,400
S1: Yes. Okay. So what if you have, uh, we're asking

590
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,400
S1: the question of how for family devotions, what if you

591
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:35,040
S1: have a disparate age group, you've got a teenager and

592
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,850
S1: a middle schooler, and then you've got a 5 or

593
00:31:37,850 --> 00:31:41,200
S1: 6 year old, you know, elementary school. How do you

594
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:46,120
S1: keep all three of the those groups on the same page?

595
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,719
S1: Especially if you've got a younger person who is a

596
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,320
S1: little fidgety and squirmy and I don't know if I. Melissa,

597
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:53,720
S1: what do you do with that?

598
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,920
S2: Yeah, we had, uh, six years spread between our kids.

599
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,520
S2: So often we would have, you know, a six year old,

600
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,480
S2: a nine year old and a 12 year old. So

601
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,960
S2: very different stages of life, um, at different points. And

602
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,560
S2: so one thing we tried to do in this devotional

603
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,480
S2: is think through that whole family process. And so we

604
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,020
S2: provide questions for younger children that are more in the

605
00:32:18,020 --> 00:32:21,300
S2: observation realm. So while a six year old might not

606
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:24,340
S2: be able to tell you answer the why question, they

607
00:32:24,340 --> 00:32:28,380
S2: can often answer a who question. Like who were the

608
00:32:28,380 --> 00:32:31,740
S2: characters in the story we just read? Um, what? What

609
00:32:31,740 --> 00:32:34,260
S2: was the job of the disciples? They can say, oh,

610
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:36,420
S2: they were fishermen. You know, I mean, so they can

611
00:32:36,420 --> 00:32:39,940
S2: be learning to pay attention to, to the details. And

612
00:32:39,940 --> 00:32:44,740
S2: that step is actually really important. You're creating biblical literacy

613
00:32:44,740 --> 00:32:48,060
S2: in your kids. They're going to feel more familiar with

614
00:32:48,060 --> 00:32:51,860
S2: the Bible just because they've learned about these various details.

615
00:32:51,860 --> 00:32:54,180
S2: And then with older kids, you can start moving more

616
00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:59,500
S2: into interpretation type questions, um, and asking, hey, why do

617
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,820
S2: you think Peter responded that way to Jesus? So you can,

618
00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:05,100
S2: you can get into those discussions a little bit more.

619
00:33:05,300 --> 00:33:08,140
S2: And then for everyone in the family, you can do

620
00:33:08,180 --> 00:33:12,700
S2: application questions. What would it look like to trust God

621
00:33:12,860 --> 00:33:15,720
S2: this week for you in your. And Mom and dad

622
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:19,240
S2: should answer the application questions as well. And so I

623
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,240
S2: think offering different types of questions actually allows every member

624
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,280
S2: of the family to get to participate in some way

625
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,880
S2: in the family division, even if it's a long a

626
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,080
S2: wide age spread.

627
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:34,440
S1: Okay. What if you have a 16 year old Michael,

628
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,640
S1: 16 year old and you're reading through the feeding of

629
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,160
S1: the 5000 or Jesus walking on the water, and the

630
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,600
S1: 16 year old says, ah, I don't I don't buy that.

631
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,200
S1: I don't think that could have happened. That's just this

632
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,800
S1: is just a story. It's just metaphor. I don't I

633
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,680
S1: don't don't believe it. What do you do in that situation, Michael?

634
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,680
S3: Well, I think you've just described, uh, some, some parents

635
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,680
S3: greatest fear. Um, and there's so many layers to that fear. One,

636
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,160
S3: one fear that parents have is, of course, their child

637
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,000
S3: doubting and maybe not believing. But then the other related

638
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,319
S3: fear to that is, what if they ask me a

639
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,880
S3: question I can't answer? So there's a lot of fears

640
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,500
S3: tied up in that scenario. And I think that scenario

641
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:19,620
S3: is quite common, actually, as we live in a more

642
00:34:19,620 --> 00:34:22,540
S3: post-Christian world. Our children are going to be exposed to

643
00:34:22,580 --> 00:34:24,500
S3: different kinds of thinking, and they're going to come home

644
00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:26,420
S3: and say, I don't know if I really believe this,

645
00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:28,859
S3: and they're going to look at miracle stories and find them,

646
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:32,180
S3: you know, irrational or hard to swallow. So there's two

647
00:34:32,420 --> 00:34:35,299
S3: there's two sort of extreme approaches there that I think

648
00:34:35,340 --> 00:34:37,620
S3: can happen. And I would say that we want to

649
00:34:37,660 --> 00:34:40,420
S3: avoid both of those. One is the clamp down approach

650
00:34:40,420 --> 00:34:43,700
S3: where as soon as your your child sort of, uh,

651
00:34:43,700 --> 00:34:47,020
S3: you know, raises a concern. You just, you know, drop

652
00:34:47,020 --> 00:34:48,899
S3: the hammer, you know, it's like, we don't do that here.

653
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:51,060
S3: We don't ask questions here. Our job is to believe those,

654
00:34:51,100 --> 00:34:53,540
S3: those aren't allowed. So you just shut it down. And

655
00:34:53,540 --> 00:34:55,460
S3: then the other extreme is sort of do nothing, right?

656
00:34:55,460 --> 00:34:57,260
S3: You don't have an answer at all. You don't even engage.

657
00:34:57,260 --> 00:34:59,580
S3: You don't you don't really have a response. What I

658
00:34:59,580 --> 00:35:01,620
S3: want to encourage parents to do is to think in

659
00:35:01,620 --> 00:35:04,739
S3: terms of dialogue, rather than just jumping on them with

660
00:35:04,739 --> 00:35:07,379
S3: an answer, or certainly rather than condemning the question, which

661
00:35:07,380 --> 00:35:09,140
S3: is what you don't want to do. You want to

662
00:35:09,140 --> 00:35:11,140
S3: be you want to affirm the question. You want to say, hey,

663
00:35:11,140 --> 00:35:13,560
S3: those are really good questions. You're not alone in those questions.

664
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,319
S3: People for generations have struggled with those questions. Tell me

665
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,239
S3: why you find this story hard to believe. What's what's

666
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,000
S3: in your mind that makes this difficult to to embrace

667
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,480
S3: and start getting them to talk and share what's on

668
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,319
S3: their mind and that that dialogue is going to pay

669
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,680
S3: off in the long run. So parents who have a

670
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:32,399
S3: doubting child, the issue isn't to sort of shut it down.

671
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,640
S3: The issue is to create open, warm spaces for your

672
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,480
S3: child to engage you, uh, slowly, over time, carefully, safely,

673
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:42,640
S3: where they can continue to talk about those issues with

674
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:44,480
S3: you when they know it's a safe place to do so.

675
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,360
S3: If we shut them down and sort of disallow it,

676
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,759
S3: I think we're going to find our children are going

677
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,279
S3: to go elsewhere for answers and elsewhere for conversations. And

678
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,399
S3: that's obviously the last thing we want to see happen

679
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,560
S3: as a as a family. So be patient. Trust it

680
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,920
S3: in the Lord's hands. Don't be defensive and invite dialogue

681
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:00,799
S3: and conversation.

682
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,360
S1: That's why I ask the outcome question. Because if your

683
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:10,080
S1: outcome is compliant, children who believe exactly the way that

684
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,710
S1: you do and don't have any questions. I mean, you

685
00:36:12,750 --> 00:36:15,750
S1: could probably get to that if you withhold dessert from

686
00:36:15,750 --> 00:36:19,549
S1: those who who ask too many questions or who doubt

687
00:36:19,950 --> 00:36:22,950
S1: you can manipulate, you can control them at least for

688
00:36:22,950 --> 00:36:25,230
S1: a certain amount of time. But you can't do that

689
00:36:25,230 --> 00:36:28,910
S1: because they have their own wills and their own questions.

690
00:36:28,910 --> 00:36:31,470
S1: And you don't know where that question is coming from.

691
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:34,350
S1: So one of the things that I love in this

692
00:36:34,630 --> 00:36:37,750
S1: that I'm, as I'm going through the gospel of Mark

693
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:41,070
S1: 52 weeks through the gospel of Mark is there's almost

694
00:36:41,070 --> 00:36:44,870
S1: a sense of, hey, relax, this go through, this is

695
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:48,469
S1: a journey that you're going through together. This is a process.

696
00:36:48,469 --> 00:36:51,710
S1: You're not looking for the outcome. There's no goal to

697
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:54,870
S1: reach here, you know, 3 to 5 times a week

698
00:36:54,910 --> 00:36:57,629
S1: and an hour here and check this box and and

699
00:36:57,630 --> 00:37:01,710
S1: then you're good. This is life that you're doing together.

700
00:37:01,750 --> 00:37:03,190
S1: Is that right, Melissa?

701
00:37:04,350 --> 00:37:07,110
S2: Yeah. And I think what we're saying is we want

702
00:37:07,110 --> 00:37:11,570
S2: to introduce you to the person and work of Jesus. Um,

703
00:37:11,570 --> 00:37:15,690
S2: and truthfully, that's what we're having the opportunity to do.

704
00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:18,610
S2: And in some ways, you know, we want our kids

705
00:37:18,610 --> 00:37:21,250
S2: to trust us and we want them to believe us,

706
00:37:21,250 --> 00:37:25,770
S2: but we want them to appreciate who Jesus is. And

707
00:37:25,770 --> 00:37:29,170
S2: so that doesn't just happen automatically. You know, it's not

708
00:37:29,170 --> 00:37:32,490
S2: like we say, oh, you should believe in Jesus. And okay,

709
00:37:32,489 --> 00:37:34,250
S2: maybe as a child we can say that, you know,

710
00:37:34,290 --> 00:37:36,490
S2: a two year old or a three year old, but

711
00:37:36,489 --> 00:37:40,450
S2: as they age, we want them to have a thinking faith.

712
00:37:40,610 --> 00:37:44,850
S2: We want them to really understand, um, theology and be

713
00:37:44,850 --> 00:37:48,009
S2: thinking about their Bibles so that they're not caught off

714
00:37:48,010 --> 00:37:51,450
S2: guard when someone asks them a question or, you know,

715
00:37:51,489 --> 00:37:55,250
S2: says something in their college class one day. And so that's,

716
00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:57,250
S2: that's what we can do. We can just say, hey,

717
00:37:57,530 --> 00:37:59,290
S2: we're going to put you in the word and we're

718
00:37:59,290 --> 00:38:01,529
S2: going to let the word do the work, let it

719
00:38:01,570 --> 00:38:04,529
S2: convince you that Jesus is the Son of God and

720
00:38:04,530 --> 00:38:06,210
S2: that he has come to redeem you.

721
00:38:06,730 --> 00:38:10,150
S1: Well, so in that sense, it takes faith in God

722
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:13,750
S1: and His power to do what you can't do in the.

723
00:38:13,790 --> 00:38:16,670
S1: In the inside of the child. The Good News Family

724
00:38:16,670 --> 00:38:20,549
S1: devotional 52 weeks through the gospel of Mark by the

725
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:24,029
S1: Kruegers Michael and Melissa. Our guests today at the back

726
00:38:24,070 --> 00:38:27,790
S1: fence go to Chris Fabry live.org. You'll see the link

727
00:38:27,790 --> 00:38:33,469
S1: right there. Chris Fabry live.org. More straight ahead on Moody Radio.

728
00:38:42,350 --> 00:38:45,270
S1: What could happen in your family if you went through

729
00:38:45,270 --> 00:38:47,910
S1: the gospel of Mark together? I don't care if you're

730
00:38:48,030 --> 00:38:52,430
S1: just you and your spouse going through this or with

731
00:38:52,430 --> 00:38:55,509
S1: your grandkids who are coming over, or you maybe take

732
00:38:55,510 --> 00:38:59,109
S1: care of them, or if you have little children. That's

733
00:38:59,110 --> 00:39:03,589
S1: what the Good News Family Devotional is geared toward. 52

734
00:39:03,590 --> 00:39:06,950
S1: weeks through the gospel of Mark. Featured resource at Chris

735
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:11,010
S1: Fabry live.org. Written by Doctor Michael Krueger and Melissa Krueger.

736
00:39:11,010 --> 00:39:16,290
S1: Find out more. Again, Chris Fabry live.org. Okay, so hard question.

737
00:39:16,530 --> 00:39:21,530
S1: Let's say you have younger kids and you get to

738
00:39:21,650 --> 00:39:25,210
S1: the scene of the Gadarene demoniac, which is kind of

739
00:39:25,250 --> 00:39:27,450
S1: kind of hard. You know, it's a kind of it's a,

740
00:39:27,450 --> 00:39:33,489
S1: it's a scary almost scene or John being beheaded. Um,

741
00:39:33,530 --> 00:39:38,210
S1: how do you deal with those tough, violent places in

742
00:39:38,370 --> 00:39:40,650
S1: the gospel? Michael. You first.

743
00:39:42,770 --> 00:39:44,770
S3: One of the things about the Bible that I think

744
00:39:44,770 --> 00:39:48,810
S3: is refreshing in a weird sort of way, paradoxically, is

745
00:39:48,810 --> 00:39:51,049
S3: how real it is and how raw it is and

746
00:39:51,050 --> 00:39:54,290
S3: how unsanitized it is. In fact, I think that speaks

747
00:39:54,290 --> 00:39:57,089
S3: to its historical reliability. You know, if you were going

748
00:39:57,130 --> 00:39:59,810
S3: to write a book where everything works out perfectly and

749
00:39:59,810 --> 00:40:02,649
S3: everyone's lives and it all ends happily ever after, and

750
00:40:02,650 --> 00:40:06,390
S3: almost every situation and everyone comes out looking rosy, You

751
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:08,790
S3: might think it was fabricated or made up, but that's

752
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:10,870
S3: not what we find in the gospel of Mark. We

753
00:40:10,910 --> 00:40:13,470
S3: find the disciples look like they don't know what they're doing.

754
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:16,509
S3: They clearly don't understand things. They're not painted in a

755
00:40:16,510 --> 00:40:19,710
S3: flattering light. We also see scenes in the gospel of Mark,

756
00:40:19,710 --> 00:40:22,630
S3: where people who follow God faithfully end up being killed

757
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:24,790
S3: like John the Baptist. He was a he was a

758
00:40:24,790 --> 00:40:27,710
S3: a wonderful follower of God, a faithful prophet. And still

759
00:40:27,750 --> 00:40:30,830
S3: God allowed him to perish. So those are heavy and

760
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:35,790
S3: weighty things. And look, there's age appropriate ways to explain

761
00:40:35,790 --> 00:40:39,989
S3: those passages, but introducing those passages to kids is, is,

762
00:40:40,030 --> 00:40:42,350
S3: I think, part of introducing them to the real world

763
00:40:42,350 --> 00:40:44,509
S3: and the fallenness of the real world, and the fact

764
00:40:44,510 --> 00:40:47,550
S3: that the real world has scary things in it and

765
00:40:47,550 --> 00:40:49,710
S3: dark things in it. And this is where we can

766
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:52,910
S3: really point them back to Jesus. We can say, look,

767
00:40:52,950 --> 00:40:54,870
S3: it is a dark and scary world, but we have

768
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:57,149
S3: a Savior who is going to redeem this world one day.

769
00:40:57,150 --> 00:40:59,469
S3: He's going to set all things right. And who's more

770
00:40:59,469 --> 00:41:02,390
S3: powerful than this world? And he's overcome the forces of

771
00:41:02,390 --> 00:41:06,250
S3: this world. So, so I would I would say to parents, don't, don't,

772
00:41:06,250 --> 00:41:09,010
S3: don't run from those texts. Don't, don't shy away from those.

773
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:12,130
S3: Those are the kind of passages that are great conduits

774
00:41:12,130 --> 00:41:15,370
S3: to the gospel. As I said, yes, you have to

775
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:18,410
S3: explain them and address them in age appropriate ways. But

776
00:41:18,410 --> 00:41:22,730
S3: but those kinds of difficulties are part of real life. And,

777
00:41:22,730 --> 00:41:25,569
S3: and we have answers for those. And the gospel, I think,

778
00:41:25,570 --> 00:41:26,210
S3: gives those.

779
00:41:26,450 --> 00:41:28,290
S1: Yeah. Melissa, what do you say to that?

780
00:41:29,170 --> 00:41:31,450
S2: Well, I think one thing you realize when you even

781
00:41:31,450 --> 00:41:34,690
S2: just realize the when you read the first five books

782
00:41:34,690 --> 00:41:37,770
S2: of the Bible, which were supposed to be read with

783
00:41:37,770 --> 00:41:41,250
S2: all of Israel standing around listening, and they would, you know,

784
00:41:41,290 --> 00:41:44,650
S2: they'd gather with their women and their children and everyone

785
00:41:44,650 --> 00:41:47,770
S2: would listen to the whole law being read. And when

786
00:41:47,770 --> 00:41:50,890
S2: I think about the book of Leviticus being read in

787
00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:54,170
S2: front of children, and because there's a lot in there,

788
00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:55,969
S2: I mean, you know, there's just a lot of talk

789
00:41:56,010 --> 00:41:59,810
S2: about a lot of different things. I realized, okay, God,

790
00:42:00,250 --> 00:42:02,529
S2: in his wisdom, you know, as he gave his word

791
00:42:02,530 --> 00:42:06,750
S2: to his People. Basically, it allowed these conversations to happen

792
00:42:06,750 --> 00:42:10,350
S2: naturally between parents and their children. And I think that's really,

793
00:42:10,350 --> 00:42:12,830
S2: really healthy. And so when you get to these hard

794
00:42:12,830 --> 00:42:16,190
S2: things in the gospel of Mark, what we see is, oh,

795
00:42:16,230 --> 00:42:20,310
S2: there's real suffering. Well, that's a great conversation to have

796
00:42:20,310 --> 00:42:22,910
S2: with your kids. Is that yeah, it doesn't always go

797
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:26,950
S2: well because you're following Jesus. This is actually when we

798
00:42:26,950 --> 00:42:30,310
S2: talk about, you know, John the Baptist being beheaded, it's

799
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:33,430
S2: actually an opportunity for us to talk with our kids

800
00:42:33,430 --> 00:42:36,270
S2: about suffering and that hard things are going to happen,

801
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:39,310
S2: and that following Jesus doesn't mean it goes all your way.

802
00:42:39,310 --> 00:42:43,350
S2: In fact, it might mean things go harder and it

803
00:42:43,390 --> 00:42:46,790
S2: gives you a place to have those discussions maybe before

804
00:42:46,790 --> 00:42:49,910
S2: they're in that actual situation. And so I think what's

805
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:53,350
S2: beautiful about God's Word is that it, it helps your

806
00:42:53,350 --> 00:42:57,910
S2: kids realize, oh, my parents aren't surprised by these things.

807
00:42:57,910 --> 00:43:01,230
S2: My parents have thought through these things, and God has

808
00:43:01,230 --> 00:43:04,770
S2: thought through these things, and God's Word teaches about these things.

809
00:43:04,770 --> 00:43:07,410
S2: And so in some ways, it allows you to have

810
00:43:07,450 --> 00:43:11,089
S2: really important conversations before you get into some of the

811
00:43:11,090 --> 00:43:15,730
S2: situations with teenagers. So there's already a foundation built for

812
00:43:15,850 --> 00:43:18,730
S2: things they're going to experience that are really hard later

813
00:43:18,730 --> 00:43:19,610
S2: on in life.

814
00:43:19,770 --> 00:43:22,450
S1: Bingo. Oh, that's so good. That is so good. The

815
00:43:22,450 --> 00:43:25,850
S1: good News Family Devotional again by the Krugers at Chris

816
00:43:25,890 --> 00:43:29,530
S1: Fabry live.org. The very first place I went though, Michael,

817
00:43:29,530 --> 00:43:31,970
S1: when I after I got through the introduction. And here's

818
00:43:31,969 --> 00:43:33,890
S1: how you do this. And this is the big idea

819
00:43:33,890 --> 00:43:35,850
S1: for the week. And what do you do with younger

820
00:43:35,850 --> 00:43:39,169
S1: versus older children? And I went through that first place

821
00:43:39,170 --> 00:43:42,530
S1: I went was at the end, you know, when, when

822
00:43:42,730 --> 00:43:45,850
S1: the the resurrection happens in the gospel of Mark and

823
00:43:45,850 --> 00:43:50,930
S1: there's the, the parentheses. The earliest manuscripts don't have these verses.

824
00:43:51,090 --> 00:43:54,489
S1: What do you do with that in a devotional setting?

825
00:43:55,690 --> 00:43:58,170
S3: Well, this actually highlights what we were talking about a

826
00:43:58,170 --> 00:44:00,089
S3: moment ago. Is that is it? We want to make

827
00:44:00,090 --> 00:44:02,680
S3: sure that as parents, we don't duck the hard questions.

828
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,799
S3: And even as Christians, we don't duck the hard questions.

829
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,960
S3: And so, yes, those are complicated things to address. I

830
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,880
S3: have a whole article I wrote on just this issue

831
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,160
S3: that's in the appendix that addresses the way manuscripts were

832
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,120
S3: copied and how texts were transmitted and why or why

833
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,359
S3: we do or don't think any particular story might be

834
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,360
S3: original or not. And those are some things that parents

835
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,560
S3: can digest themselves and try to pass along the principles

836
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,839
S3: to their children. But the big takeaway here is that

837
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,799
S3: children need to be introduced at some point to where

838
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,080
S3: the Bible came from and how the Bible is transmitted.

839
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,279
S3: And there are places that are that are sticky parts,

840
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,279
S3: like the end of Mark that need to be addressed.

841
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,000
S3: And so I think this is a great chance for

842
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,840
S3: parents to just sort of not run from those hard questions,

843
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,879
S3: but to face them head on. I know that some

844
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,200
S3: parents will say, well, I don't understand the reasons for that.

845
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,719
S3: I don't have an answer for that. And my response

846
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:56,160
S3: is exactly so. As a Christian, this is a great

847
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,839
S3: opportunity to go learn what the answer is. Go read

848
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,580
S3: that appendix, go read that article, understand some more than

849
00:45:01,580 --> 00:45:03,779
S3: you used to understand, and allow this to be a

850
00:45:03,780 --> 00:45:05,739
S3: place where you can grow and then you can help

851
00:45:05,739 --> 00:45:08,140
S3: your kids grow. Um, so I just think it's a

852
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:10,460
S3: great chance to really dive into those, those tough questions.

853
00:45:10,460 --> 00:45:12,779
S3: And I hope parents take that opportunity.

854
00:45:13,180 --> 00:45:17,980
S1: It's an excellent, uh, appendix that you can go through

855
00:45:18,020 --> 00:45:21,460
S1: in the Good News family devotional, 52 weeks through the

856
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:25,219
S1: gospel of Mark. It's written by the Krueger's our guest today,

857
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:28,819
S1: Doctor Michael Krueger and Melissa Krueger. And you can find

858
00:45:28,820 --> 00:45:34,100
S1: it at Chris Fabry live.org. Okay, Melissa, you final question. 30s.

859
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:36,739
S1: What is the goal in all of this? What are

860
00:45:36,739 --> 00:45:40,020
S1: you hoping to what do you hope the outcome will be?

861
00:45:41,460 --> 00:45:44,700
S2: I think the biggest outcome we are hoping for is

862
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:48,460
S2: that our children would know God and enjoy him. That's

863
00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:51,060
S2: you know, my goal is to know him and enjoy

864
00:45:51,060 --> 00:45:54,020
S2: him for all of life. And that's the wonderful thing

865
00:45:54,020 --> 00:45:56,339
S2: we get to introduce our children to. And so we

866
00:45:56,380 --> 00:45:59,160
S2: hope we're passing on a legacy that they will then

867
00:45:59,160 --> 00:46:02,319
S2: tell the next generation, and they will then tell the

868
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,359
S2: next generation the good things the Lord has done for

869
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:06,879
S2: us through Jesus Christ.

870
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,320
S1: What a great resource. Again, it's the Good News Family

871
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,239
S1: devotional 52 weeks through the gospel of Mark. Just go

872
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:17,800
S1: to Chris Fabry live.org. Doctor Krueger, thank you for spending

873
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:19,839
S1: the time with us today. God bless you friend. Come

874
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:20,960
S1: back and see us. Okay.

875
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:22,320
S3: Thank you.

876
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,200
S1: And Melissa, hats off to you. And you come back

877
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:26,800
S1: as well.

878
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,080
S2: Thanks for having us today.

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S1: Last name is spelled KRUGER. The good news family devotional

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S1: featured resource Chris Fabry live.org. Doctor Doug Hankins is going

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S1: to be with us talking about still single, still called.

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S1: If you are single, don't miss the conversation on Chris

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S1: Fabry live production of Moody Radio, the Ministry of Moody

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S1: Bible Institute.