S1: Living in Iran. They knew they were putting their lives
S1: on the line every time they shared their faith. Undaunted,
S1: in three years they'd started two house churches and secretly
S1: given away more than 20,000 New Testaments. That's when the
S1: police finally caught up with them. Captive in Iran is
S1: the amazing story of their arrest and ordeal in Iran's
S1: most notorious prison. You'll hear it all today on the
S1: land and the book. Welcome. Our host is Doctor Charlie Dyer,
S1: noted Old Testament scholar, Middle East expert. And I'm John Jaeger.
S1: You know, Passover will soon be upon us. And one
S1: of the traditional Passover questions is what makes this night
S1: different from all others? Well, Passover really is an important
S1: biblical holiday that has great meaning for both Jewish people
S1: and believers in Jesus. I think sometimes we miss out
S1: on that. So I think these are great questions to
S1: be asking. Right, Charlie? They are John. And if people
S1: want to learn more about what makes Passover.
S2: So special, well, our friends at Life in Messiah are
S2: offering to mail them a free copy of their Messianic
S2: Passover Haggadah. The booklet will lead you through the celebration
S2: of Passover to see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah,
S2: and the Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for
S2: an interactive Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and video.
S2: You can celebrate Passover this year with your family and friends.
S2: Now to get this free offer, just go to life
S2: in Messiah Coorg and click on the Moody Radio button
S2: to find out more and request your copy. That's life
S2: in messiah.org.
S1: If you're new to the program, we've got four segments here.
S1: Current events is segment one. We take a look at
S1: stories out of the Middle East. Segment two brings us
S1: an interview with somebody impacting the Middle East for the Kingdom.
S1: And segment three is questions and answers. Charlie, what are
S1: you doing with that?
S2: Oh, I love it John. People ask any question on
S2: the Bible, on theological topics, whatever's on their mind. I
S2: try and provide an answer for them and well, hopefully
S2: it's my fun part as a teacher, I love answering questions.
S2: And then there's.
S1: A fourth segment. Tell us about that. Yeah.
S2: And the fourth segment, we take people to a place
S2: or some event in Israel. In fact, on today's program,
S2: I'm looking at the end of the series I'm doing
S2: called objects on My Shelf. And so we're going to
S2: look at a lamp and a widow's mite and then
S2: go to Israel to find out how they fit into
S2: what the Bible says.
S1: All right. That's a sneak preview of the layout of
S1: our program every week. But for today, current events wise,
S1: we've got some stories. Charlie, you and I have been
S1: home from Israel for a week now. With our body
S1: clocks finally getting back in sync. What are your impressions
S1: from the trip? I mean, what stands out the most
S1: to you from our time there?
S2: You know, John, I really came back with like, three
S2: thoughts just etched on my mind. And the first, I
S2: now realize I really hadn't fully understood the impact of
S2: October 7th and the impact that it had on the
S2: psyche of most Israelis. I assumed it was similar to
S2: the impact 911 had on us here in the US,
S2: but October 7th was different in a number of key ways. First,
S2: it impacted nearly every single family. Everyone, it seems, had
S2: a relative or friend, a neighbor, a co-worker who was
S2: wounded or killed or captured. You know, that wasn't true
S2: for most Americans on nine over 11. And then the
S2: magnitude of the attack, relatives of the population was so
S2: much greater. There were about 3000 deaths on nine over 11.
S2: That's out of a population at the time of about
S2: 285 million. On October 7th, Israel experienced over 1200 deaths
S2: out of a population of 9 million. Had we lost
S2: that same percentage of our population on nine over 11,
S2: we would have had 54,000 deaths instead of 3000. And
S2: the third part of that was the geography was so different.
S2: You know, most Americans were nowhere near the events I
S2: was there on, on the Moody campus, 700 miles away
S2: in Chicago, when nine over 11 happened. But most Israelis
S2: live within 70 miles of the attack. When the rockets
S2: began falling, you know, they had just a few seconds
S2: to get to safety. And so all that to say,
S2: the impact of the event was so much more dramatic
S2: than I'd been able to grasp after coming back, a
S2: friend sent me an article by Barry Weiss that captured
S2: what I felt after visiting the area around Gaza. She wrote.
S2: There's a difference between knowing something intellectually and standing in
S2: a killing field. And she's right. You know, being there
S2: in bury was an emotional gut punch that helped us
S2: understand October 7th from Israel's perspective. Now, that was just
S2: all the first key. The second key takeaway for me
S2: was seeing the national resolve, the national unity that rose
S2: up in Israel almost overnight. They went from being fractured
S2: politically and religiously to being a nation United. People reached
S2: out to help their neighbors. We saw yellow ribbons on
S2: trees and railings and car doors. Our friend in Ashkelon
S2: told us about people there gathering on their balconies in
S2: the evening to sing Hatikvah, Israel's national anthem. There was
S2: almost instantaneous national resolve to eliminate the threat of Hamas
S2: and to secure the release of the hostages. No, no
S2: matter what a person's political or religious affiliation, they share
S2: that passion. My final takeaway, John, for me, was that
S2: the spiritual openness that Israel is currently experiencing, you know,
S2: in our time with the Messianic Jewish leaders, in the
S2: Arab pastors, they all kept saying they've never seen such
S2: openness to the gospel as what they're seeing right now,
S2: believing soldiers told us about sharing their faith with religious
S2: Jews fighting in Gaza. Jewish and Arab pastors had people
S2: asking them why they were so willing to reach out
S2: and help, you know, a boldness on the part of believers,
S2: coupled with a spiritual hunger on the part of those
S2: shaken by the events of October 7th, have opened a
S2: door of opportunity to share the gospel anyway. Those are
S2: the three key realities that impressed me. But let me
S2: turn the microphone around, John, and ask you the same question.
S2: What were the most dramatic takeaways for you from our
S2: time there?
S1: This was certainly a very sobering trip to stand there
S1: in homes that were lit on fire. Homes where Hamas
S1: had come in, searched those safe rooms, homes where you
S1: could look out in the backyard and and hear stories
S1: about neighbors whose home was burned, whose children and family
S1: and parents were shot. It's a different thing to be
S1: there than to read about it. I had a hard
S1: time going to bed at night, Charlie. Two of those nights.
S1: And then I think of the meetings that we had
S1: with hostage families to sit down with them. I felt
S1: almost like I was a criminal for shoving a microphone
S1: into the face of a mother whose 19 year old
S1: daughter has taken hostage. There's just no way to ask
S1: those questions in a gentle way. But again, to hear
S1: all of that is so different when you're there in person.
S1: The other thing I thought was really neat was the
S1: input that Christians are having both inside Israel, the churches
S1: that are rising up, the churches that are offering tangible
S1: physical support, whether it's food, cooking, clothing, supplies for the soldiers,
S1: whatever it is they need, they're making a huge difference.
S1: But also the input and response from organizations in the
S1: United States. Tom Doyle, whom we interview regularly on the program,
S1: his organization has stepped up providing an ambulance, I think,
S1: of Franklin Graham's organization. They replaced 11 of the ambulances
S1: that were burned up, broken the drivers murdered in that
S1: initial attack, on and on and on the way that
S1: Christians are showing up is such a huge encouragement. And
S1: you touched on the third reaction I have, and that
S1: is the openness of the people in Israel. Israeli believers
S1: are now saying there is an atmosphere here that has
S1: never been. And as one pastor told us, this darkest
S1: hour might be our brightest hour. So those are some
S1: of the takeaways that I have. This is the land
S1: of the book from Moody Radio. And you know, Charlie,
S1: a third story we need to look at is Israel's
S1: facing this combination of threats right now? It continues. We've
S1: talked about Hamas, Hezbollah and Ramadan in the past, but
S1: today the United States seems to be making Israelis just
S1: as nervous. Why are they concerned about the US?
S2: Well, I think they're concerned over what they see as
S2: a definite change in the US's attitude toward the war
S2: against Hamas. You know, after the Hamas attack on October 7th,
S2: we quickly came to Israel's aid. We provided military support.
S2: We defended Israel in the UN. But with our approaching
S2: elections and with the growing anti-Israel sentiment among progressives in
S2: our country, the administration appears to be pulling back in
S2: its support of Israel while upping its criticism. Israelis view
S2: this as almost an existential threat, especially with the possibility
S2: of the war expanding to include Hezbollah in the North.
S2: They've watched us pull back in our aid for Ukraine,
S2: and they're concerned we could also choke off the supply
S2: of weapons and ammunition to them, leaving them with few
S2: military options. I think they're also troubled by what they
S2: see as well, for lack of a better word, U.S.
S2: interference in their handling of the war and and their
S2: internal politics. When our president called an Israeli attack on
S2: Rafah a red line that they can't cross. Israel saw
S2: that as a lifeline to Hamas. And that's where the
S2: remaining Hamas forces and Hamas leadership and the remaining hostages
S2: are located. Put another way, we get upset over the
S2: idea of foreign interference in our elections and our government
S2: and Israelis feel the same way. As believers, we need
S2: to be praying for our leadership. We also need to
S2: remember God's covenant with Abraham in Genesis 12 three, which
S2: is still operative. God said, I'll bless those who bless
S2: you and the one who curses you, I'll curse. It's
S2: in our national interest to make sure we remain a
S2: blessing to Israel in technology world.
S1: Texoma in Israeli imaging startup is pioneering a new technique
S1: that might just be a game changer for anyone diagnosed
S1: with liver cancer. Tell us about this new procedure from
S1: Amazing Israel.
S2: Yeah, thermal ablation has been around for some time, but
S2: it hasn't really been used to treat liver cancer, at
S2: least up until now, because of its one major drawback
S2: when thermal ablation is used on the liver, the view
S2: of the tumor is obscured by a fog of tiny
S2: gas bubbles thrown up as heat supply to the tissue,
S2: and that makes it difficult to know if the tumor
S2: is being targeted and if they're not harming surrounding healthy tissue. Well,
S2: the leaders at Texas Med were convinced artificial intelligence could help,
S2: and they develop software that offers real time visualization of
S2: the ablation zone. And. Place the bubble activity into a
S2: clear picture of what's happening. This new software called Bio
S2: Trace IO, has already been granted de novo clearance by
S2: the FDA. It's expected to go live in US hospitals
S2: in the coming months. Combining ablation therapy with artificial intelligence
S2: to make liver cancer surgery a minor procedure. Well, that's
S2: definitely a game changing innovation coming our way from amazing Israel.
S1: And that's a look at current events. Up next on
S1: the program Captive in Iran. The first person account of
S1: someone who spent time in Iran's most notorious prison had
S1: lived to tell about it. That's all ahead on the
S1: land and the book. They knew they were putting their
S1: lives on the line every time they shared their faith
S1: living in Iran. They knew exactly what could happen. Undaunted,
S1: in three years, they'd started two house churches and secretly
S1: given away more than 20,000 New Testaments. That's when the
S1: police finally caught up with them. And that's where our
S1: story picks up from Moody Radio. This is the land
S1: and the book. I'm John Jaeger. Before we hear the
S1: story of two young women held captive in Iran. Let's
S1: hear this thought on how you and I can share
S1: Christ with the Muslims who live in our neighborhood. So
S1: you're standing in line at the bank, and the teller
S1: is a muslim woman. May you talk to her or
S1: should you not? Let's ask Stephanie. Affair with call of Hope.
S3: But you are not embarrassing her. If you talk to her,
S3: no problem. In business life, that's okay. And even in
S3: many Muslims countries, that's totally normal. When you enter into
S3: Dubai or Qatar, there will be a woman issuing your visa,
S3: so that's fine. But that does not mean that you
S3: should go into a conversation for sure. Not about your
S3: faith with a muslim woman. This is something you should
S3: leave to your wife, to your sister, to your friend
S3: at church. Let them talk to this Muslim woman. But
S3: in business life, and when they talk to you and
S3: when they wish you a good day. Oh, of course
S3: you reply, but don't shake hands.
S1: And any other engagement with a muslim woman should, in
S1: a social setting, should definitely be woman to woman.
S3: Absolutely. Or you take your wife with you. You know,
S3: that's also possible. You can be there as a couple.
S1: Okay. Stephon affairs with call of Hope U.S. Practical insights
S1: for sharing Jesus with your Muslim friends. Marzia Zaidi is
S1: an Iranian American with a story to tell. She's a
S1: published author, public speaker, and activist for religious freedom. For
S1: more than a decade, she has shared her inspiring story
S1: throughout the United States and around the world to bring
S1: awareness about the ongoing human rights violations and persecution of
S1: women and religious minorities in Iran. We are really honored
S1: to be able to share her story today. So welcome
S1: to the land in the book. Marzia!
S4: Thank you so much.
S1: You and your friend Mariam were both on fire for
S1: Jesus witnessing and sharing New Testaments in Iran. How did
S1: the two of you team up?
S4: Yeah, it was after my faith. I left the country
S4: because I was thirsty to know more about Christianity, and
S4: it was in Turkey that I attended some leadership theology classes,
S4: and I met my best friend Mariam, and we both
S4: had a different experience with Jesus. But we had the
S4: same passion for sharing our faith with our people.
S1: So what was the typical scenario in which you would
S1: have given a muslim a copy of the New Testament?
S1: Was it always one on one? I mean, you don't
S1: just walk up to somebody and say, hey, how would
S1: you like a New Testament?
S4: No, actually, when we returned to Iran, we had no
S4: idea how we can approach people, especially. I described to
S4: you the situation in Iran, especially for women, is much
S4: more difficult because they have many limitations. But we prayed
S4: and we asked God to give us a vision. And
S4: then through reading the Bible, God showed me that Iran
S4: is like a big desert. There is no state, and
S4: we need to plan on those seeds. And he will
S4: grow all those seeds by the power of the Holy Spirit.
S4: And we got that idea by distributing Bibles at night
S4: as well, which you mentioned. We distributed 20,000 Bibles. And
S4: for talking to people one and one every day, whenever
S4: we wanted to do our tours, going to restaurants, we prayed.
S4: And we ask God to show us the right person
S4: to speak and God. And there are tons of stories.
S4: We shared some of them in our book Captive in Iran.
S4: And we just, you know, God showed us a right
S4: person and we just talked to them. And as soon
S4: as we talked to them, they shared, you know, they
S4: had dreams, visions about Jesus. They were searching to find
S4: the truth. And we could see that the Holy Spirit
S4: would guide us to the right people to speak well.
S1: Marzia is a public speaker, an activist for religious freedom.
S1: Her book Captive in Iran recounts her capture and imprisonment.
S1: We'll get there in today's conversation. I'm John Jaeger, glad
S1: you joined us to hear her story. Well, you and
S1: Mariam both had to have known the risks you were taking,
S1: but you passed out those Bibles. You shared your testimonies anyway.
S1: What drove you to do that?
S4: I shared a little bit about my testimony. I experienced
S4: the love of God, and then I was in love
S4: with him. And that love and my personal relationship was
S4: very strong with him. And for Mariam also is a
S4: different story. So I believe when you experience the love
S4: of God, you find the truth. Then nothing is matter
S4: to you, even your life. What is matter is to
S4: have that love relationship with not to lose that love relationship.
S4: And also another thing I knew that my responsibility is
S4: that to tell my people who were fed with lies
S4: in Islam, to tell them the truth about Jesus.
S1: Well, eventually you and Mariam were both arrested, charged with apostasy, blasphemy,
S1: promoting Christianity and anti-government activity. What is the penalty for
S1: these supposed crimes that you were accused of?
S4: The major charge was apostasy, which is under Sharia law
S4: is punishable by death. And we had many courts, many
S4: interrogations that they kept threatening us and they threatened the
S4: life of our family members. They kept putting pressure on
S4: us to deny our faith in Jesus. And in the
S4: last month that we were in prison, they told us
S4: if we just write one sentence denouncing our faith, then
S4: they would release us. But I remember my conversation with
S4: my interrogator. I told him, I'm not going to renounce
S4: my faith in Jesus. Even if you cut each part
S4: of my body, you're not able to separate Jesus with me.
S4: And I took that opportunity to share my testimony with them.
S4: That's how I met Jesus. And I told them it
S4: was on that one day I woke up and I
S4: decided to be a Christian and change a religion. It's
S4: just a personal relationship with Jesus. I met him and
S4: many visions and many experiences that I had with him that, um,
S4: that's why you can't separate him from it.
S1: Okay. We we have, uh, kind of glossed over this story,
S1: which is quite dramatic. You're arrested, you're in this prison,
S1: you and Mariam. And not just any prison, but Evin prison.
S1: In the book, you offer this snapshot, quote, Evin prison
S1: is the heart and brute manifestation of the power of
S1: the ayatollahs and a symbol of their dominance and strength
S1: over Iran. It is infamous for the torture, rape, and
S1: execution of many innocent people. End quote. So you knew
S1: this as you walked into that prison. What were your
S1: thoughts at that moment as you're walking in.
S4: As you mentioned, I knew before going to prison because
S4: that famous that's a prison is very famous among Iranians.
S4: And even by hearing its name, they have fear. But yeah,
S4: it was shocking that I got allowed me to witness
S4: all those injustices and execution of my friends and, uh,
S4: tortures of women. I heard horrible stories from other prisoners,
S4: and I was witnessed firsthand about all these brutal behaviors
S4: in that prison. It's the longest story that I shared,
S4: you know, about what happened to us and other prisoners.
S4: But praise God that God gave me that opportunity to
S4: be a witness to all those injustices.
S1: Marzia Amira Zaid is immigrating to the US. She's been
S1: here after being imprisoned in Iran for sharing her Christianity,
S1: and joins us today on the land and the book.
S1: In your book, you feature a photo of a woman
S1: named Shirin. Tell us about her.
S4: Shirin was my best friend from the first day we
S4: entered Evin Prison, and we built a friendship for nine months.
S4: And I. When I heard her story, it was shocking
S4: because she was in prison for years, and they tortured
S4: her brutally for months. And she described it how they
S4: beaten her up in the solitary cells and that the
S4: skin would peel off at the bottom of her feet,
S4: and they hit her head to the walls many times.
S4: As a result of that, she had severe headaches non-stop.
S4: And finally they hanged her. She was against this regime,
S4: fighting against this regime. She was a Kurdish girl. And um,
S4: as I mentioned, they brutally tortured her and finally they
S4: hanged her and even didn't give her body back to
S4: her family. And they usually do this to all political prisoners.
S1: Now, did her hanging give you a second round of
S1: terror in your own soul, thinking they did it to her?
S1: Maybe I'm next.
S4: Uh, at the time that they hung her, we were
S4: outside the prison. They released us for a couple of months,
S4: but still we had one more court that they told
S4: us that, uh, you need to come to that court
S4: for the final decision. But hearing that was so shocking.
S4: And I remember my brain was freeze, and I could
S4: not believe that I lost my best friend. But when
S4: I was in prison, I was witness to other execution
S4: of my cellmate, which was shocking to me. Once they
S4: put me in a cell and after they sent me
S4: to the world of murderers, they kept me in a cell.
S4: And after a few weeks, after I built a friendship,
S4: they took one of my cellmate and executed her, which
S4: was very shocking to me. And they wanted to show
S4: me what will be the cost of our resistance, because
S4: they were telling and they charge us. Later, they sentenced
S4: to death by hanging. They wanted to show us that
S4: this is going to be our destiny. If we wanted
S4: to insist on our faith in Jesus.
S1: And yet you had not one, but many conversations in
S1: these interrogations in which you boldly stood up and said, sorry,
S1: we're not going to fold. Jesus is the way. It's
S1: Islam that's wrong. Where do you think you got that courage?
S4: You know, it's in the Bible that Jesus tells us
S4: when you got arrested. Um, don't worry about what to
S4: say beforehand, because it's the Holy Spirit will give us
S4: the word. And I really experienced that in prison. Honestly,
S4: I had so much fear in my body I could
S4: feel it, but the words coming out of my mouth
S4: were so powerful when I was answering their questions during
S4: my interrogation. And sometimes I myself hearing my words, I
S4: was shocked. And I was telling myself, Martha, you're in
S4: a big trouble. Why you talk to them like that?
S4: But it was the Holy Spirit that gave me that
S4: power because he didn't want me and my friend who
S4: looked weak in front of them. And I believe it
S4: was all the time the Holy Spirit that guided us
S4: during our interrogations in court. You know that they were
S4: threatening our lives in prison everywhere.
S1: You know. What were the authorities hoping to get out
S1: of you with all these hours of interrogation? They didn't
S1: go on for a few minutes. There weren't just one
S1: or 2 or 3 that went on and on and on.
S1: Why all that interrogation? What did they hope would happen?
S4: As I mentioned, they in all the course they threatened us.
S4: And finally they sentence us to death by hanging. I
S4: had a dream before going to prison a few years
S4: before going to prison, that God told me, one day
S4: you will pass through prison experience. I knew that this
S4: is going to happen, but I didn't know what will
S4: be my destiny. But even though I had that dream
S4: that God told me about that. But honestly, there were
S4: times that I doubted and I felt maybe would get executed.
S4: Imagine every time during all those interrogations, keep threatening your life.
S4: Keep telling you that we will hang you if you
S4: are going to insist on your fate. So I'm a
S4: human being and still you know, I had there were
S4: moments that I had doubts that I may end up
S4: getting killed here.
S1: So what was the hardest part about being in Evin Prison?
S1: Was it those interrogations? Was it, uh, observing the loss
S1: of a cellmate? Was it the conditions? How would you
S1: describe the hardest part about being there?
S4: So from the beginning, they insulted us because of our faith.
S4: They call the 30 questions. And it's very difficult when
S4: people around you, those guards and even there were some Muslims,
S4: prejudice Muslims. They call the stereotype Christians. It's difficult to, uh,
S4: love those people. But I remember God would remind me
S4: the verses in Bible, and I always prayed and ask
S4: God to give me, uh, the power of the Holy
S4: Spirit to show his love to those people, because in
S4: Bible it tells us that love your enemies and pray
S4: for those who persecute you. But when you are in
S4: actual place, it's very difficult. And all those things were
S4: very difficult. Hearing and the stories of other prisoners, that
S4: how they were tortured, brutally tortured was so difficult. But
S4: the most difficult thing that I experienced, uh, was the
S4: execution of my cellmates, that it was very shocking to me.
S4: And I couldn't believe that they can easily take a
S4: life of a person. And most of them, honestly, they
S4: were innocent people. They charged them with political charges and
S4: they hang them. Huh.
S1: Well, ultimately, you endured nine months of mental and physical hardships,
S1: intense interrogation there in Evin prison, one of the most
S1: brutal prisons in the world. But the story isn't over.
S1: There's more to come, and we'll look forward to sharing
S1: that in our next visit with our guest, Marzia Zaidi.
S1: Her book, by the way, Captive in Iran, is featured
S1: in a link at our website, the land and the book.org.
S1: You can hear today's program again. By the way, any
S1: broadcast again at the land and the book. Org and
S1: if you're curious about what others are wondering as they
S1: study scripture, that's our focus on the next segment of
S1: the broadcast. It's just ahead here on the land and
S1: the book. It never ceases to amaze me how much
S1: the Bible ceases to amaze me, and how quickly I
S1: have questions when I'm reading a passage. What about you?
S1: I'm John Jaeger, this is the land and the book.
S1: Thanks for your company. Our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, has
S1: his Bible open, as he always does at this time
S1: in the broadcast where we welcome your questions and we'll
S1: share with you our email contact so you can get
S1: your question to Charlie for a future broadcast. First, though,
S1: I'm thinking, Charlie, that Passover will soon be upon us,
S1: and one of the traditional Passover questions is what makes
S1: this night different from all others? And Passover is an
S1: important biblical holiday that has great meaning for both Jewish
S1: people and believers in Jesus. So I guess that's a
S1: really good question to ask. What makes it different from
S1: all others? Yeah, it.
S2: Is a great question, John. And in fact, if our
S2: listeners want to learn more about what makes Passover so special, well,
S2: our friends at Life and Messiah are offering to mail
S2: you a free copy of their Messianic Passover Haggadah. The
S2: booklet will lead you through the celebration of Passover to
S2: see the rich connections to Jesus, our Messiah, and the
S2: Last Supper. You'll also receive a link for an interactive
S2: Passover Seder video with the Haggadah and video. You can
S2: celebrate Passover this year with your family and friends. To
S2: get this free offer, just go to Life in Messiah
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S1: And now, ladies and gentlemen, it's question number one from Todd.
S1: He says, I heard this week on a podcast that
S1: the separation of church and state idea derives from the Bible. Specifically,
S1: the individual I heard stated that kings were not allowed
S1: to be priests nor priests Kings. Is it true that
S1: separation of church and state derives from the Bible? And
S1: if so, what evidence would you give?
S2: Well, I need to answer two ways. First, there was
S2: a separation of authority in the Old Testament. The king
S2: was the civil authority, and the priest was the mediator
S2: between God and man. In representing man to God through
S2: the sacrifices and representing God, demand through the teaching of
S2: the word. And the prophet occupied the third role. The
S2: prophet's task was to share God's direct message to kings
S2: and priests and the people. Now, you can't push this
S2: separation too far, because Melchizedek, you know, in Genesis 14
S2: and mentioned again in Psalm 110, in Hebrews seven, well,
S2: he said to be both a king and a priest,
S2: and Jesus actually fulfills all three roles prophet, priest, and
S2: king now. But second, I think there is a problem
S2: when people try to read the US Constitution into the Bible.
S2: Our separation between church and state, as it's sometimes described,
S2: isn't really what our Constitution or the Bible says. You know,
S2: the Constitution says Congress will make no law respecting an
S2: establishment of religion that is making one religion or denomination
S2: the preferred, favored or official state religion, or prohibiting the
S2: free exercise thereof. You know, the first part was to
S2: guard against having that official state church. The second part
S2: was to make sure the government didn't interfere in the
S2: rights of religious groups to practice according to conscience. Sadly,
S2: some today try to use this to argue for freedom
S2: from religion, suggesting all religious practices are to be kept
S2: out of the public square and only can be done
S2: privately inside the church. And that's not what the Bible
S2: suggested or promoted in that type of separation. Nor does
S2: our Constitution.
S1: John asks when we do kind acts of service for
S1: unsaved friends with the clear idea that we want to
S1: win them to Christ. Is that like planting seeds for
S1: the gospel, or does it really only count as a
S1: gospel seed if we're sharing actual biblical truth?
S2: I believe that doing good works for unsaved friends and neighbors,
S2: especially when done in a way that helps prepare them
S2: to hear the gospel message, is a good way to
S2: prepare the soil to help them respond. It's not the
S2: equivalent to sharing the gospel unless the good deed is
S2: accompanied by that presentation, but that doesn't mean it's not helpful.
S2: I think. Matthew 516. You know, that's where Jesus said,
S2: let your light shine before men in such a way
S2: that they may see your good works and glorify your
S2: father who is in heaven fits that example. Another one
S2: is Paul's words in Galatians six verses nine and ten.
S2: He said, let us not become weary in doing good,
S2: for at the proper time will reap a harvest if
S2: we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity,
S2: let us do good to all people, especially those who
S2: are among the family of believers, you know, continually demonstrating
S2: acts of kindness and then praying for an opportunity to
S2: share why we respond as we do. I think that's
S2: a good thing.
S1: Jennifer says. I was speaking to a friend and said
S1: that I believe in the emergency of the rapture and
S1: that they said, this is not a biblical concept. They
S1: took me to Second Thessalonians two verse four, saying that
S1: the Bible teaches that the Antichrist must be revealed before
S1: the rapture. I'm wondering what verses teach the imminent or
S1: the rapture. Yeah, and I think.
S2: Your friend is mistaken. The rapture and the day of
S2: the Lord. You know, the rapture is described in first
S2: Thessalonians chapter four, verses 13 to 18 there. And in
S2: verse 17, Paul includes himself with the ones he says,
S2: we who are alive and remain will be caught up together,
S2: indicating he expected the rapture in his lifetime while he was.
S2: Still alive. You know, it didn't happen. Hasn't happened for
S2: 2000 years, but it could have happened at any time
S2: from Paul's day to ours, which is why we say
S2: it is imminent. Then in first Thessalonians five, Paul begins
S2: a new topic. He uses the Greek phrase Perry death,
S2: which can be translated now concerning. And that's in verse one. There,
S2: every time Paul uses that phrase in his writings, he
S2: does so to introduce a new topic. And the new
S2: topic he introduces in chapter five is the day of
S2: the Lord. Then in second Thessalonians two, Paul wrote to
S2: correct the mistake that the day of the Lord had
S2: somehow already arrived. Paul makes it clear to them that
S2: the trouble they were experiencing wasn't the day of the Lord,
S2: because the apostasy hadn't arrived, nor had the Antichrist been revealed.
S2: In verse five, he makes it clear that he'd shared
S2: all this with him when he had been with them before. Now,
S2: having answered their concern, Paul in second Thessalonians two by
S2: reminding them they were destined for salvation or deliverance by
S2: the spirit and faith. And he connects this with the
S2: traditions you were taught, whether by mouth or by letter
S2: from us. In essence, he ends by taking them back
S2: to what he taught them in Thessalonica and what he'd
S2: written to them in first Thessalonians. In other words, the
S2: rapture could happen at any time, and it's different than
S2: the day of the Lord, which follows.
S1: Questions about the Bible, prophecy, Israel. They're always welcome here
S1: at the land in the book. And you can get
S1: your question to us at the land and the book
S1: at Moody's Edu. Peggy says, I saw an article that
S1: said the word abracadabra comes from Moses words in numbers 12,
S1: verse 13, and is a Hebrew incantation that means I
S1: will create as I speak. They also said the numerical
S1: value of the word, which adds up to 26, is
S1: the same numerical value as Yahweh, the name of God.
S1: Is this true?
S2: Well, two thoughts come to mind. First, when Moses speaks
S2: in numbers 1213, he didn't say abracadabra. Rather, he spoke
S2: exactly what it says in our Bibles, though in Hebrew.
S2: And second, using a numerical value of words. That's a
S2: later practice that really I don't think was intended by
S2: either God or the human author. It's an attempt to
S2: read something mysterious and deep into the text, rather than
S2: letting the text mean exactly what it says. In the
S2: New Testament, we don't see any suggestion that such a
S2: healing formula was used by Jesus or the apostles. In
S2: Luke 854, we have the exact words spoken by Jesus
S2: when he raised Jairus daughter, and it doesn't include anything
S2: related to abracadabra. Could that expression have been developed in
S2: later Judaism from their spiritualized reading of the verse? Yeah,
S2: I think that's exactly what happened. But is it what
S2: God intended when he had Moses record the words in
S2: numbers 12? I don't think so. So the word likely
S2: did come from Jewish mysticism, but it didn't come from
S2: the Bible.
S1: Uh, Lois wants to know, do you know if there
S1: is a good book about whether our loved ones will
S1: know us in heaven? I read Randy Elkins book years ago,
S1: but wondered if you knew of another book I could read.
S2: Yeah, a specific book doesn't come to mind, but a
S2: good passage of Scripture does. Luke 16. You know, that's
S2: where Jesus gave the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
S2: Now it's a parable. It's a story, but Jesus is
S2: the one telling it. And I don't think he was
S2: sharing something that wasn't factually true. So anyway, in that parable,
S2: after the two men die, they're in opposite places in
S2: the afterlife. The rich man was in Hades and Lazarus
S2: ended up in Paradise. Or they're called by Jesus Abraham's bosom.
S2: But the points that I think are interesting are this first,
S2: each recognized and knew the other. And second, they also
S2: both recognized Abraham, whom they had never met in life.
S2: Now that suggests to me that we'll know both those
S2: who are with us here on Earth, as well as
S2: other saints who lived before our time. Apparently, we'll also
S2: have some remembrance of those who were left behind. The
S2: rich man asked about his brothers, suggesting he remembered what
S2: they were like and was concerned about their eternal destiny,
S2: even though he couldn't do anything to alter it after
S2: his death. Now, based on the parable, I believe you
S2: will know your loved ones and other Christian friends in heaven,
S2: and you'll also meet a host of other new friends
S2: like Paul and Jeremiah. And of course, most of all Jesus.
S1: From Isabelle. This thought every week I listened to the
S1: land in the book podcast and always learn something. Now
S1: I know that the land of Israel was given by
S1: God to the Jewish people as an inheritance forever. Could
S1: you please outline the boundaries of the land given by God?
S2: Yeah, and I start this way. God gave a general
S2: outline of the land to Abram in Genesis 15. He said,
S2: it extends from the river of Egypt to the great river,
S2: the Euphrates. But he then defines the land as the
S2: land of the Canaanites, Canaanites, Cadman Heights, all those ites
S2: that are listed there. Those were the tribes living within Canaan.
S2: So as a result, I think God was saying the
S2: land he promised Abram was the land between the two
S2: great civilizations of the day, Egypt to the south and
S2: west and Mesopotamia to the north and east. And then
S2: he identifies it further by connecting it to the groups
S2: currently living there. Now, second, there are two times when
S2: God provides very specific boundaries for the land. The first
S2: is numbers 34, just before the nation of Israel entered
S2: the Promised Land. And there the boundaries are very specific.
S2: They include most of modern day Israel, and they extend
S2: from the Mediterranean Sea to the Jordan River. And actually
S2: parts of Lebanon and Syria are included. Now, later in
S2: Ezekiel 47, God identifies those same boundaries as the ones
S2: that will be in effect at the time of Israel's
S2: final return to the land. Now, I don't see any
S2: discrepancy between those boundaries. The first is general, but the
S2: second two are very specific and they list the actual
S2: boundaries once Israel is there in the land.
S1: Well, if you enjoyed these questions today, imagine how much
S1: more you'd enjoy it if it was one of your
S1: questions getting answered. You can get your question to us
S1: when you write The Land and the book at Moody's Edu.
S1: Charlie's devotional is next. I suppose. Like a lot of people,
S1: before traveling to Israel, I had so many, many wrong
S1: assumptions about everything I still do after multiple trips, but
S1: I'm trying to learn. Hey John Geiger with you here.
S1: Our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, is about to share about
S1: objects on the shelf. This is his continuing devotional series
S1: among those objects. Lamp and might. Now, Charlie, to follow
S1: up this thought on my misconceptions, I used to think
S1: that these lamps were like these genie lamps that you saw,
S1: you know, maybe six, eight inches long, but but when
S1: you go to Israel, you mostly see lamps that are
S1: much smaller, right?
S2: That's right. And they're not bronze or brass. They're made
S2: out of clay.
S1: But we'll get to all of that as you present
S1: your devotional after this Holy Land experience testimony, which we'll
S1: hear right now.
S5: Our guide is Sarah and was about 30 years old
S5: and her enthusiasm for the word was so contagious it
S5: was unbelievable. Everything that we saw and our Bible leader
S5: would talk with us about. It, was as if she
S5: could hardly wait to talk about it and to tell
S5: us from her perspective. And I found myself just feeling
S5: this contagion overtaking me also. And what I purposed through
S5: that was to make sure that when I go home,
S5: that I can be just as contagious for Christ as she,
S5: a messianic Jew, right here in his land and really
S5: our land, because of the Abrahamic covenant in our being
S5: grafted in that I can be just as contagious as
S5: she is here.
S1: All right. We're headed for Luke chapter 21 and Matthew
S1: chapter 25. Charlie, I'll turn things over to you for
S1: your devotional today.
S2: Uh, thanks, John. And I tell everybody listening. Welcome back
S2: to my crowded and cluttered office. Now, I always enjoy visitors,
S2: though you can tell from the folding chair that you
S2: need to use space in here is definitely at a premium.
S2: The photos and other knickknacks that I have around the
S2: whole office have a story to tell. For example, you
S2: see that small wooden branch there on my bookshelf that
S2: looks like a miniature tree. Take a look at it
S2: and you'll see a 22 caliber bullet hanging from one
S2: of its branches by a red ribbon. That was a
S2: gift from an elderly lady in our church who's now
S2: in glory. She gave it to me as a Christmas
S2: present several years ago. Seeing the puzzled look on my face,
S2: she laughed and said, don't you get it? It's a
S2: cartridge in a bear tree. I still smile every time
S2: I look at it, but that's not the object I
S2: want to share today. Instead, look at the shelves on
S2: the opposite wall, along with the block of Dead Sea.
S2: Salt and pieces of flint are several ancient lamps and pots.
S2: How ancient? Well, the oldest is from around the time
S2: of Abraham. But the pieces I want to show you
S2: today are not nearly that old. They're only 2000 years old.
S2: From the time of Jesus. These are the very first
S2: antiquities I purchased on my original trip to Israel over
S2: 40 years ago. Mounted on a small plexiglass base are
S2: an oil lamp from the Herodian period and a single lepton,
S2: a small copper coin often referred to as a widow's mite.
S2: The round oil lamp is just under 2.5in in diameter. Uh,
S2: the spout along the edge sticks out about an extra inch,
S2: and it has about a three quarter inch round hole
S2: in the very center where the olive oil could be
S2: poured in, and the entire lamp's only an inch high.
S2: Although these lamps can vary in size, a typical one
S2: like mine would hold just over an ounce of oil
S2: and could burn for about four hours. The light cast
S2: by the flame would be comparable to that of a
S2: small candle. The copper coin is about the size of
S2: a dime in circumference, but much thinner. It's about the
S2: thickness of a penny placed on a railroad track after
S2: a train rumbled by. It's stamped with the image of
S2: an anchor on top and an eight pointed star on
S2: the reverse side. The workmen who stamped these coins weren't
S2: overly concerned about quality. The anchor is centered, but the
S2: star on the other side is not. And remember, the
S2: widow had two small coins. And since I remembered that,
S2: I also bought a second one. Now these are interesting artifacts,
S2: but that's not why I wanted to show them to you.
S2: To explain why, let me put them in our pocket
S2: and climb in our time machine to take them back
S2: to Jerusalem. At the time of Jesus, we find ourselves
S2: first in Herod's magnificent temple inside the court of the
S2: women around the colonnades that lined the outside walls of
S2: the court were 13 wooden boxes with trumpet shaped bronze
S2: funnels on top. As the coins were placed in the funnels,
S2: they would clank as they bounced and rolled down into
S2: the wooden boxes with Jesus looking on, we watch a
S2: number of individuals come by to deposit their offerings into
S2: the boxes. The larger, heavier silver coins make a distinctive sound,
S2: and the sound seems to amplify and reverberate when the
S2: individuals empty large purses of coins, shaking them to get
S2: the coins to bounce and clatter even more. Then an
S2: older woman in tattered clothes quietly walks toward one of
S2: the boxes. She waits until these more prominent individuals are finished,
S2: before dropping her two small coins into the box. They
S2: barely make any sound as they roll down the bronze funnel. Then,
S2: unnoticed by most, she starts to slip away. But that's
S2: when Jesus draws our attention to her. I tell you
S2: the truth, this poor widow has put in more than
S2: all the others. All these people gave their gifts out
S2: of their wealth, but she, out of her poverty, put
S2: in all she had to live on. I once had
S2: to deliver a message on key biblical principles of fundraising.
S2: My first principle was based on these verses. All gifts,
S2: regardless of the amount, are important in God's sight. We're
S2: never to judge the importance of a gift to God
S2: by its size. And to emphasize that point, I then
S2: tossed my two, lept my two widow's mites onto the
S2: table in front of me. As I told them. Jesus
S2: said that was the most significant gift given to God
S2: on that day. And here are two good principles for
S2: you from that story. First, don't judge a person's importance
S2: based on the size of the gift they make. And second, remember,
S2: God not only sees what you give, but how much
S2: you keep for yourself. But Jesus is now heading out
S2: of the temple with his disciples toward the Mount of Olives,
S2: so we need to hustle to catch up with him. Thankfully,
S2: he's stopping. As the disciples point back to the temple buildings,
S2: we arrive just as Jesus shares what we've come to
S2: know as the Olivet Discourse, his main teaching on events
S2: that lead up to his return to Earth as King
S2: of Kings and Lord of Lords. His focus on the
S2: future is fast. But his application catches our attention. Therefore,
S2: keep watch because you do not know on what day
S2: your Lord will come. And to illustrate his point, Jesus
S2: begins telling a parable about ten virgins who took their
S2: lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. The lamps.
S2: We get it now. They're each carrying one of these
S2: small Herodian oil lamps. No doubt each is carefully holding
S2: it in the palm of her hand to keep the
S2: oil from spilling out. It's getting dark, and they know
S2: the bridegroom should arrive soon, but they don't know the
S2: exact time. Five are only carrying their lamps, but five
S2: are also carrying a small jug that carries just enough
S2: oil to refill the lamp a second time. Both of
S2: their hands are filled while the others have a hand free.
S2: Should they need to open a door, push aside a branch,
S2: or retrieve something from the ground. The five who went
S2: out not carrying the additional jar would seem to have
S2: the advantage should the bridegroom arrive soon. But in reality,
S2: they didn't know the exact time of his arrival. And
S2: as the hour slipped by, all ten began nodding off.
S2: Then at midnight, someone shouted in the darkness, here comes
S2: the bridegroom! Come out to meet him. The ten virgins
S2: rose quickly, and notice the flames in their lamps were
S2: starting to sputter out. Five quickly poured their additional oil
S2: into the reservoir. Watch the flame spring to life as
S2: the oil was drawn up the wick. But as they
S2: were pouring the oil into the lamps, the five without
S2: additional oil began crying out to them. Give us some
S2: of your oil. Our lamps are going out. Well, we
S2: know what happens. Those with the extra oil still didn't
S2: know exactly when the groom would arrive. They might need
S2: all their oil. The five foolish virgins had to rush
S2: off to buy more oil. But while they were gone,
S2: the groom arrived and they were shut out of the
S2: wedding banquet. And Jesus's point? He repeats it again. Therefore
S2: keep watch, because you do not know the day or
S2: the hour. Well, it's time to head back to my office.
S2: And as we arrive, look again at that small oil lamp.
S2: Had you been alive in the time of Jesus, you
S2: would know from experience that you were likely to get
S2: about four hours of light from the oil in that
S2: lamp before it was all gone. Since you didn't know
S2: when the groom would arrive, wisdom said you should be prepared.
S2: And that's the other lesson we can learn from these
S2: objects on my shelf. A small coin and a small lamp.
S2: Reminders to us that it's not the size of the gift,
S2: but the level of commitment on the part of the
S2: giver that matters to God, and that we don't know
S2: when Jesus will return. But we do know he expects
S2: us to be ready when he does.
S1: Very, very practical. Thank you, Charlie, for bringing both of
S1: those stories to light. And I'm intrigued with a four
S1: hour lamp expectancy. That's cool. Hey, there's more insights for you,
S1: and our website has lots of great resources if you'll
S1: check it out at The Land and the Book, Dawg,
S1: we welcome you there. The land and the book. Org.
S1: Our time is gone, but we've got a great program
S1: lined up for next week. Hope you'll join us then.
S1: The land and the book is a production of Moody Radio,
S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.