1 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,840 S1: What's the spiritual climate like in today's Iran, where the 2 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,360 S1: government so hostile to the name of Jesus? How do 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,639 S1: Iranians find Christ as Savior, perhaps even in the middle 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,680 S1: of a crisis like we're seeing before us? Well, prepare 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:22,480 S1: to be amazed as we look at a ministry that 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,880 S1: reaches 6 million people every single day in Iran. Plus, 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,080 S1: we'll bring you all the major headlines from the Middle East, 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,240 S1: including a look at the attacks on Iran's nuclear facilities. 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,200 S1: All ahead on the broadcast. We call the land and 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,919 S1: the book. Our host, Doctor Charlie Dyer, is a lifelong 11 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,360 S1: student of the Middle East and a self-confessed news junkie. 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,720 S1: I'm John Gager. And, Charlie, we got news for sure. 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,720 S2: Oh, we sure do, John. Yeah. 14 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,040 S1: Before we get to that, though, Romans 116 says the 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,160 S1: gospel is to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles. 16 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,840 S1: But how do you share the gospel with a Jewish person? 17 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:58,960 S1: Because of cultural, historical, and religious differences, it's sometimes challenging 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:03,030 S1: to navigate a gospel conversation with somebody from a Jewish background. 19 00:01:03,190 --> 00:01:05,709 S1: You ever wondered how the professionals do it? 20 00:01:05,750 --> 00:01:08,190 S2: Well, to answer that question, our friends at Life in 21 00:01:08,190 --> 00:01:11,150 S2: Messiah want to mail you samples of the tracks their 22 00:01:11,150 --> 00:01:14,150 S2: staff use as they share the gospel. This will serve 23 00:01:14,150 --> 00:01:16,789 S2: a dual purpose of equipping you with methods of presenting 24 00:01:16,790 --> 00:01:20,110 S2: the gospel, while also providing you with tracks you can 25 00:01:20,110 --> 00:01:23,150 S2: share with your Jewish friends and neighbors. Life in Messiah's 26 00:01:23,150 --> 00:01:25,470 S2: Prayer is that these tracks will help further the spread 27 00:01:25,470 --> 00:01:28,990 S2: of the gospel among the Jewish people. To receive this 28 00:01:28,990 --> 00:01:31,509 S2: helpful assortment of tracks, all you need to do is 29 00:01:31,510 --> 00:01:35,230 S2: visit Life in Messiah org and click on the radio 30 00:01:35,230 --> 00:01:40,350 S2: button for more information. That's life in Messiah. Don't miss 31 00:01:40,350 --> 00:01:42,350 S2: out on this great opportunity. 32 00:01:42,830 --> 00:01:46,230 S1: Well, Charlie, after we recorded last week's program, Israel launched 33 00:01:46,230 --> 00:01:49,070 S1: its strike against Iran. What are some aspects of the 34 00:01:49,070 --> 00:01:52,950 S1: attack that perhaps haven't been fully reported on by the media? 35 00:01:53,190 --> 00:01:57,270 S2: Well, one aspect is the stunning success experienced by Israel. 36 00:01:57,510 --> 00:02:02,100 S2: They totally surprised Iran and demonstrated detailed knowledge of Iran's 37 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:05,900 S2: internal workings. They knew where key individuals would be and 38 00:02:05,900 --> 00:02:09,820 S2: where much of Iran's military infrastructure was located. In that 39 00:02:09,820 --> 00:02:14,299 S2: first attack, Israel took out Iran's largest uranium enrichment facility. 40 00:02:14,500 --> 00:02:18,700 S2: They also eliminated key military leaders and top nuclear scientists 41 00:02:18,700 --> 00:02:22,540 S2: and destroyed a large number of missiles and launchers. That 42 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:26,339 S2: last part was crucial. Iran had at least 2000 long 43 00:02:26,380 --> 00:02:29,420 S2: range missiles, along with thousands of drones, and they had 44 00:02:29,419 --> 00:02:33,420 S2: threatened to fire a thousand missiles plus drones in response 45 00:02:33,419 --> 00:02:37,579 S2: to any Israeli attack. Israel destroyed 40% of Iran's launch 46 00:02:37,580 --> 00:02:41,540 S2: vehicles for missiles, along with a number of missile storage sites. 47 00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:45,220 S2: They also destroyed around a thousand drones. As a result, 48 00:02:45,260 --> 00:02:48,460 S2: Iran has only been able to launch about 400 missiles 49 00:02:48,460 --> 00:02:52,140 S2: since the start of the war. Israel's arrow missile defense system, 50 00:02:52,139 --> 00:02:55,500 S2: along with the US, Thad and Patriot systems, have shot 51 00:02:55,540 --> 00:02:59,490 S2: down 90% of the missiles Iran has launched. Now that 52 00:02:59,490 --> 00:03:03,370 S2: still means about 40 or so missiles did hit inside Israel. 53 00:03:03,610 --> 00:03:07,450 S2: The exact number and locations aren't being reported, though Israel 54 00:03:07,450 --> 00:03:10,570 S2: did say its oil refinery in Haifa was hit. Most 55 00:03:10,570 --> 00:03:14,690 S2: of Iran's missiles that made it through targeted civilian population centers. 56 00:03:14,889 --> 00:03:17,810 S2: So far, about 25 Israelis have been killed and about 57 00:03:17,810 --> 00:03:22,049 S2: 600 wounded in those attacks. They also destroyed 24 large 58 00:03:22,090 --> 00:03:26,890 S2: apartment buildings. And that leaves about 3000 people homeless. So 59 00:03:26,930 --> 00:03:30,130 S2: what happens next? Well, Israel has asked the U.S. to 60 00:03:30,169 --> 00:03:33,489 S2: use its bunker busting bombs to take out Iran's underground 61 00:03:33,490 --> 00:03:36,570 S2: nuclear facilities. Up until now, right when we're recording, the 62 00:03:36,610 --> 00:03:40,290 S2: US has refused. Though President Trump is suggesting he might 63 00:03:40,290 --> 00:03:44,650 S2: approve an attack if Iran doesn't agree to voluntarily dismantle 64 00:03:44,690 --> 00:03:47,770 S2: its nuclear enrichment program. And so far, their answer to 65 00:03:47,810 --> 00:03:51,010 S2: that is no. One concern in Israel is that their 66 00:03:51,010 --> 00:03:55,090 S2: stockpile of arrow interceptors is dwindling. That could also force 67 00:03:55,090 --> 00:03:59,080 S2: them to be more selective in choosing which targets to intercept. 68 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,720 S2: Israel has refrained from directly attacking Ayatollah Khamenei, but they've 69 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:09,880 S2: targeted institutions and individuals responsible for Iran's internal security. They've 70 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,400 S2: also called on the Iranian people and the military to 71 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:15,360 S2: take back control of the country from the ayatollahs and 72 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,840 S2: the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Now, at the very least, 73 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:22,840 S2: this could help further weaken their current leadership. Their Iran 74 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,400 S2: continues to issue threats against Israel, the U.S., the West, 75 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,120 S2: and Iran's Gulf neighbors, and their remaining supply of missiles 76 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,839 S2: is a concern. At the same time, Iran's leadership appears 77 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,960 S2: to be looking for a way to end the fight 78 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,920 S2: before it loses its grip on the country, but it 79 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,120 S2: wants to do so while still saving face. The question is, 80 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:43,360 S2: is that even possible? 81 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,679 S1: Yeah, well, some in the US have questioned the necessity, 82 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,120 S1: maybe even the wisdom, of Israel's military strike. They claim 83 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:54,520 S1: it disrupted President Trump's ongoing negotiations with Iran and threatens 84 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:57,940 S1: to inflame the entire Middle East, possibly even dragging the 85 00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:00,900 S1: US into an unnecessary war. How do you respond to 86 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:02,180 S1: those kinds of concerns? 87 00:05:02,260 --> 00:05:05,300 S2: Well, President Trump made it clear he wasn't surprised by 88 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:09,100 S2: Israel's attack. He knew in advance, and it didn't disrupt 89 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:12,660 S2: his plans. The timing for the attack related to Iran's 90 00:05:12,660 --> 00:05:17,060 S2: decision to move forward with acquiring nuclear weapons while pretending 91 00:05:17,100 --> 00:05:21,140 S2: to negotiate, Israel discovered Iran had just carried out a 92 00:05:21,140 --> 00:05:23,980 S2: key test on bomb design that could have put them 93 00:05:23,980 --> 00:05:28,180 S2: within weeks of having nuclear weapons. Those making these arguments 94 00:05:28,180 --> 00:05:31,180 S2: against U.S. involvement seem to suggest there are only two 95 00:05:31,180 --> 00:05:35,900 S2: choices for the U.S. isolationism or militarism. But we need 96 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,860 S2: to remember there can be just wars, and that includes 97 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:43,500 S2: aiding our friends in their time of need. If we don't, 98 00:05:43,580 --> 00:05:46,180 S2: we might just find ourselves friendless at a time when 99 00:05:46,180 --> 00:05:49,100 S2: we need help. And to assume that the U.S. is 100 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:53,530 S2: never going to need help is prideful and foolish. Proverbs 101 00:05:53,529 --> 00:05:57,409 S2: 1618 says, pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit 102 00:05:57,410 --> 00:06:00,250 S2: before a fall, and we need to remember that. Finally, 103 00:06:00,250 --> 00:06:02,770 S2: I think as believers, we also need to view this 104 00:06:02,770 --> 00:06:07,490 S2: conflict theologically. Israel is the only country granted direct title 105 00:06:07,490 --> 00:06:10,729 S2: to its land by God Himself. And in Genesis 12, 106 00:06:10,770 --> 00:06:14,609 S2: God promises to bless those who bless Abraham and his descendants, 107 00:06:14,770 --> 00:06:17,050 S2: and to curse those who curse them. Now, if we 108 00:06:17,050 --> 00:06:19,810 S2: want God to bless America, then we need to be 109 00:06:19,810 --> 00:06:23,090 S2: sure we're being a blessing to Israel. I taught the 110 00:06:23,089 --> 00:06:26,330 S2: Old Testament for years and I love the Old Testament prophets. 111 00:06:26,450 --> 00:06:29,570 S2: The book of Obadiah, which I suspect most people haven't 112 00:06:29,570 --> 00:06:32,450 S2: been reading lately, says the day of the Lord is 113 00:06:32,450 --> 00:06:35,570 S2: near for all nations, as you have done. And in 114 00:06:35,570 --> 00:06:38,690 S2: context he means what you've done to Israel will be 115 00:06:38,690 --> 00:06:41,890 S2: done to you. Your deeds will return upon your own head. 116 00:06:42,410 --> 00:06:45,570 S2: There have been a lot of unnecessary wars throughout history, 117 00:06:45,890 --> 00:06:49,130 S2: but Israel's fight with Iran isn't one of them. It's 118 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:52,240 S2: in their own national interest, and it's a fight for 119 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:56,760 S2: their existential survival. It's in our national interest to support 120 00:06:56,760 --> 00:06:59,719 S2: Israel if we want to continue being blessed by God. 121 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,480 S1: That's Doctor Charlie Dyer, I'm John Geiger. This is the 122 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,120 S1: land and the book. We're looking at current events from 123 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,880 S1: the Middle East. Well, the threat by the ultra-Orthodox to 124 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:11,200 S1: bring down the current government failed during a vote in 125 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:15,080 S1: the Knesset. How did the government survive this? No confidence vote? 126 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:16,600 S1: And what comes next? 127 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,440 S2: Well, two key elements came together that caused the vote 128 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,720 S2: to fail. The first was last minute talks between Knesset 129 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,800 S2: member Yuli Edelstein and two leaders of the ultra-Orthodox parties. 130 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,120 S2: Both sides agreed to a compromise to scale back some 131 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:34,960 S2: of the penalties in the proposed legislation on drafting the ultra-Orthodox. 132 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,600 S2: It will still penalize those who refuse to report for 133 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,040 S2: the draft, but not as harshly as before. And it 134 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,880 S2: appears to increase recruitment targets more slowly than the earlier 135 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,920 S2: version of the bill. The compromise bill is intended to 136 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,170 S2: be a temporary measure that will last about 4 to 137 00:07:50,170 --> 00:07:54,270 S2: 6 years. The ultra-Orthodox apparently agreed to the compromise because 138 00:07:54,270 --> 00:07:56,710 S2: they didn't see any other choice. The bill gives them 139 00:07:56,710 --> 00:07:59,790 S2: more time to seek a more permanent solution with this 140 00:07:59,790 --> 00:08:03,430 S2: proposed compromise in place. The bill to dissolve the Knesset 141 00:08:03,430 --> 00:08:07,550 S2: then failed, with most of the ultra-Orthodox now voting against it. 142 00:08:07,590 --> 00:08:11,390 S2: Under Knesset rules, this means the opposition can't introduce another 143 00:08:11,390 --> 00:08:14,990 S2: similar bill to dissolve the Knesset for six months. So 144 00:08:14,990 --> 00:08:17,910 S2: the current coalition remains in place, at least for now. 145 00:08:18,190 --> 00:08:20,710 S2: And the second event that helped turn the tables on 146 00:08:20,710 --> 00:08:24,390 S2: the vote was the impending attack on Iran's nuclear facilities. 147 00:08:24,670 --> 00:08:28,270 S2: Netanyahu stressed that an impending conflict with Iran was not 148 00:08:28,270 --> 00:08:30,830 S2: the time to dissolve the government. And in that case, 149 00:08:30,830 --> 00:08:32,870 S2: he was right, and I think they listened to him. 150 00:08:33,550 --> 00:08:36,910 S1: Hey, just how old are the Dead Sea Scrolls? A 151 00:08:36,910 --> 00:08:40,870 S1: new study suggests some are older than originally reported. What's 152 00:08:40,870 --> 00:08:43,709 S1: behind the new dating, and how does this impact our 153 00:08:43,710 --> 00:08:45,390 S1: understanding of the Old Testament? 154 00:08:45,590 --> 00:08:47,750 S2: You know, initially this report, when it came out, sounded 155 00:08:47,750 --> 00:08:50,980 S2: quite interesting. Up till now, the two way scrolls have 156 00:08:50,980 --> 00:08:54,660 S2: been dated by carbon 14 dating and by comparing the 157 00:08:54,660 --> 00:08:58,460 S2: different writing styles in the scrolls, the way certain letters 158 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:01,580 S2: were formed and written changed over time. Now, this new 159 00:09:01,580 --> 00:09:06,020 S2: study incorporated artificial intelligence using a deep learning model. They 160 00:09:06,020 --> 00:09:10,900 S2: inputted digitized images of 135 scroll fragments into the system 161 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:14,420 S2: and trained it to recognize just tiny differences in the 162 00:09:14,420 --> 00:09:18,940 S2: letters themselves. They then correlated the character shapes alongside new 163 00:09:18,940 --> 00:09:22,460 S2: radiocarbon results for 24 of the samples, allowing them to 164 00:09:22,500 --> 00:09:26,380 S2: determine more precise dates, suggesting some could actually be decades 165 00:09:26,380 --> 00:09:30,179 S2: earlier than previously thought. However, the overall significance of the 166 00:09:30,179 --> 00:09:33,780 S2: study isn't that dramatic. For example, one fragment of the 167 00:09:33,780 --> 00:09:37,179 S2: Book of Daniel is now dated to the early 160 BC. 168 00:09:37,740 --> 00:09:40,580 S2: They claim this matches the period when the book was composed, 169 00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:43,500 S2: but that's based on the assumption that the book wasn't 170 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:46,060 S2: written by Daniel, but by someone at the time of 171 00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:50,010 S2: Antiochus Epiphanes. But if Daniel wrote the book, which I believe, 172 00:09:50,330 --> 00:09:53,410 S2: then this fragment is still dated to four centuries after 173 00:09:53,410 --> 00:09:56,689 S2: the time of Daniel. It's an earlier copy, but it's 174 00:09:56,690 --> 00:10:00,090 S2: still just a copy. The new method helps date those 175 00:10:00,090 --> 00:10:03,810 S2: fragments more accurately, but it doesn't help establish the authorship 176 00:10:03,809 --> 00:10:05,890 S2: of the book. In the end, you believe what the 177 00:10:05,890 --> 00:10:09,130 S2: Bible says or you don't. And in this particular case, 178 00:10:09,130 --> 00:10:11,650 S2: I choose to believe Daniel was the author. And by 179 00:10:11,650 --> 00:10:14,610 S2: the way, there are solid textual details within the book 180 00:10:14,730 --> 00:10:17,610 S2: that point to an early date for its composition. 181 00:10:17,929 --> 00:10:19,970 S1: Thank you Charlie. That's a look at current events from 182 00:10:19,970 --> 00:10:23,209 S1: the Middle East. Appreciate your updating us on all those things. Well, 183 00:10:23,210 --> 00:10:26,770 S1: we've talked about the political and current events climate in Iran, 184 00:10:27,130 --> 00:10:31,250 S1: but what's the spiritual climate like in today's Iran with 185 00:10:31,250 --> 00:10:33,850 S1: a government so hostile to the name of Jesus, how 186 00:10:33,890 --> 00:10:37,530 S1: do Iranians find Christ as Savior? Prepare to be amazed 187 00:10:37,530 --> 00:10:39,770 S1: as we look at a ministry that reaches 6 million 188 00:10:39,770 --> 00:10:44,370 S1: people every day inside Iran, plus questions and answers coming 189 00:10:44,370 --> 00:10:47,240 S1: up and more on today's edition of The Land and 190 00:10:47,240 --> 00:11:04,239 S1: the book from Moody Radio. It's a ministry that reaches 191 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:08,600 S1: 6 million people every single day in Iran. But what's 192 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,160 S1: the spiritual climate like in today's Iran, living under a 193 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:15,240 S1: government so hostile to the very name of Jesus? How 194 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,560 S1: do you find Christ as Savior there? Well, prepare to 195 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,080 S1: be amazed as you join us now for an unusual 196 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,959 S1: conversation on the land and the book. I'm John Geiger, 197 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,080 S1: inviting you to think with me first about ways that 198 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,600 S1: we can reach the Muslim friends that God has given 199 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,880 S1: us at work and at home. Let's listen. Maybe I 200 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,640 S1: can blame it on my wife. I'm crazy about Mexican food. 201 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,640 S1: We go to this one restaurant and they call it 202 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:44,280 S1: their baby burrito. It's massive. It absolutely fills a dinner plate. And. 203 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,620 S1: And I feel guilty for not eating at all, but 204 00:11:46,620 --> 00:11:49,420 S1: it's just too much. I wonder if when we witness 205 00:11:49,420 --> 00:11:52,420 S1: to our Muslim friends sometimes if we're giving them too much? 206 00:11:52,420 --> 00:11:54,940 S1: That's a question I want to throw at Doctor Samuel Niemann, 207 00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:57,380 S1: who serves at Moody Bible Institute in the Department of 208 00:11:57,380 --> 00:11:59,980 S1: World Missions and Evangelism. Do we give them too much? 209 00:12:00,020 --> 00:12:02,780 S3: John, we are always pressured that we have to share 210 00:12:02,780 --> 00:12:04,580 S3: the whole truth and only the truth. 211 00:12:04,660 --> 00:12:05,540 S1: This heaping plate. 212 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:07,500 S3: Let me just say, we are focused in our 20 213 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,819 S3: minute or 15 minute presentation, and we want to go 214 00:12:09,820 --> 00:12:13,500 S3: through the routine. But please, we are dealing with human beings. 215 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:16,660 S3: They are at different paces and different situations in their lives. 216 00:12:17,020 --> 00:12:19,420 S3: Let's not be so focused in feeling the need to 217 00:12:19,420 --> 00:12:23,260 S3: share the whole gospel. Share in small snippets if you can. 218 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:25,780 S3: If you have a relationship with your Muslim friend, which 219 00:12:25,780 --> 00:12:28,699 S3: I hope you will share in small snippets, share your 220 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:32,020 S3: personal testimony. This is the Lord that I serve Jesus. 221 00:12:32,260 --> 00:12:34,820 S3: This is what he has done for me, and this 222 00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:37,020 S3: is how he enables me to live on a daily 223 00:12:37,020 --> 00:12:39,660 S3: basis and the same hope I give to you. I 224 00:12:39,660 --> 00:12:42,380 S3: think there is so much power in sharing your personal 225 00:12:42,380 --> 00:12:46,490 S3: testimony because they can read the Word of God. They 226 00:12:46,490 --> 00:12:49,329 S3: can also see how the Word of God has transformed 227 00:12:49,330 --> 00:12:52,090 S3: you and changed you. And I think a living testimony 228 00:12:52,090 --> 00:12:55,250 S3: is a is a wonderful tool that we can use. 229 00:12:55,250 --> 00:12:57,330 S1: So we don't need to give them the whole burrito 230 00:12:57,330 --> 00:12:57,730 S1: at once. 231 00:12:57,770 --> 00:13:00,170 S3: No, it'll be too much. 232 00:13:00,170 --> 00:13:01,010 S1: Maybe that's. 233 00:13:01,010 --> 00:13:01,330 S3: Right. 234 00:13:01,610 --> 00:13:04,730 S1: Maybe smaller bites as you share Jesus with your Muslim friend. 235 00:13:04,730 --> 00:13:08,010 S1: That's Doctor Samuel Niemann, who joins us today on the 236 00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:12,569 S1: land and the book. Doctor Hormoz Shariat is the founder 237 00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:17,730 S1: and president of Iran Alive Ministries, utilizing satellite broadcasting and 238 00:13:17,730 --> 00:13:20,929 S1: the internet to reach Iranians with the gospel. He is 239 00:13:20,929 --> 00:13:24,610 S1: an Iranian Muslim convert who has a Ph.D. in artificial 240 00:13:24,610 --> 00:13:28,370 S1: intelligence from the University of Southern California and a BA 241 00:13:28,370 --> 00:13:32,410 S1: in Bible and Theology from Jessup University. Hey, welcome back 242 00:13:32,410 --> 00:13:34,570 S1: to the land and the book, Doctor Chariot. 243 00:13:35,050 --> 00:13:37,730 S4: Well, thank you so much for allowing me to share 244 00:13:37,730 --> 00:13:38,850 S4: what the Lord is doing. 245 00:13:39,290 --> 00:13:42,530 S1: Well, let's begin with an update on current events from Iran. 246 00:13:42,530 --> 00:13:45,839 S1: What are the top trends that we need to understand 247 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:46,760 S1: in this country? 248 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,960 S4: Well, right now is, uh, war, the possible war with 249 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:56,040 S4: Israel with the backing of, uh, us. So people of 250 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,720 S4: Iran and most of it, uh, the government of Iran 251 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,480 S4: is all fear. Oh, this war could bring down the 252 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:08,280 S4: government in Iran. And another one is the the possibility 253 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,560 S4: of the nuclear bomb that the government of Iran is 254 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,800 S4: seriously thinking about. Uh, that and they may think that's 255 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,200 S4: the only way to defend themselves or impose their will 256 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:23,120 S4: to the to other nations because they're so weak. The 257 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,880 S4: Iranian government is so weak. So these are the issues, 258 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,640 S4: the war, the fear, the economy is really bad and 259 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,000 S4: the government of Iran is on the way down. 260 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,960 S1: Well, Iran Alive Ministries has been alive, if I may, 261 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,080 S1: for 25 years. And with regard to religious freedom, how 262 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,150 S1: would you compare the nation of Iran today from 25 263 00:14:45,190 --> 00:14:45,790 S1: years ago? 264 00:14:46,670 --> 00:14:51,390 S4: Well, 25 years ago, the people of Iran were thinking, 265 00:14:51,950 --> 00:14:55,750 S4: Is Islam true or not? You know, after the revolution, 266 00:14:55,790 --> 00:14:58,710 S4: Iranians believed in Islam. They were ready to die for it, 267 00:14:58,710 --> 00:15:01,790 S4: and many of them did. And the Iran-Iraq War. But 268 00:15:01,790 --> 00:15:05,470 S4: gradually they started thinking. So going back 25 years ago, 269 00:15:05,470 --> 00:15:08,270 S4: when we started, there were some people who were open, 270 00:15:08,270 --> 00:15:13,190 S4: but most people had just started questioning Islam. Now, 25 years, 271 00:15:13,230 --> 00:15:18,310 S4: fast forward. Now, today, people of Iran are saying Islam 272 00:15:18,310 --> 00:15:20,790 S4: is not the way they have come to a conclusion. 273 00:15:20,830 --> 00:15:23,910 S4: It took them 25 years to get there. So it's 274 00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:26,990 S4: not emotional. It's not an overnight decision, but it's a 275 00:15:26,990 --> 00:15:31,310 S4: very deep seated decision of Iranian people that Islam is 276 00:15:31,310 --> 00:15:34,270 S4: not the way Islam is the root of our problems 277 00:15:34,270 --> 00:15:36,910 S4: and we need to get rid of it. And there 278 00:15:36,910 --> 00:15:41,220 S4: was a survey 2 or 3 years ago by university professors, 279 00:15:41,220 --> 00:15:44,860 S4: and they asked 50,000 Iranians what you believe. And they 280 00:15:44,860 --> 00:15:49,500 S4: published it. You can see them online. Their conclusion less 281 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:55,020 S4: than one third of Iranian people said, we believe in Islam. 282 00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:59,140 S4: So when I say Iran is no longer an Islamic nation, 283 00:15:59,180 --> 00:16:00,300 S4: now I have proof. 284 00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:04,700 S1: Yeah, well, surely the other two thirds are not evangelical Christians, though. 285 00:16:05,060 --> 00:16:09,020 S4: No. Another one third is saying we don't care about God. 286 00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:12,060 S4: God is not important to our lives. They're thinking more 287 00:16:12,060 --> 00:16:16,180 S4: towards secular thinking. And the last one third, they're looking 288 00:16:16,180 --> 00:16:20,500 S4: everywhere for God. They're looking at eastern religion, New Age, 289 00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:25,140 S4: and of course, Christianity. They're looking everywhere but Islam. 290 00:16:25,740 --> 00:16:29,100 S1: Doctor Hormoz Shariat is a passionate leader who is committed 291 00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:31,740 S1: to sharing the gospel with the people of Iran. He's 292 00:16:31,740 --> 00:16:35,380 S1: sharing some important updates today on the land and the book. Well, 293 00:16:35,380 --> 00:16:38,060 S1: what you're sharing today is certainly not a hidden secret 294 00:16:38,060 --> 00:16:40,690 S1: from those who are in power in Iran, and that 295 00:16:40,690 --> 00:16:43,370 S1: has to be to them, very, very disturbing. Or am 296 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:44,570 S1: I overstating things? 297 00:16:45,010 --> 00:16:48,170 S4: No, they are in a very weak position and that's 298 00:16:48,170 --> 00:16:51,930 S4: why they are showing their power. Just today and yesterday 299 00:16:51,930 --> 00:16:56,050 S4: they showed their power, the underground missiles they have and everything, 300 00:16:56,410 --> 00:16:59,690 S4: and they have lost their proxies. They have no power. 301 00:16:59,690 --> 00:17:03,729 S4: They have lost the I call them three H's, the Houthis, 302 00:17:03,930 --> 00:17:08,890 S4: Hezbollah and Hamas, and they're defenseless. So the government of 303 00:17:08,890 --> 00:17:13,410 S4: Iran is very fearful towards the outside forces. But John, 304 00:17:13,810 --> 00:17:17,570 S4: they are very cruel towards their own people. So they're 305 00:17:17,570 --> 00:17:20,450 S4: saying to their own people, hey, yes, we may have 306 00:17:20,450 --> 00:17:23,850 S4: been defeated outside, but you come on the streets, we 307 00:17:23,890 --> 00:17:26,290 S4: kill them. And they did, and they are doing it. 308 00:17:26,770 --> 00:17:29,210 S1: I've been told that the Ministry of Iran alive reaches 309 00:17:29,210 --> 00:17:34,129 S1: an average of 6 million Farsi speaking Iranians daily. Additionally, 310 00:17:34,170 --> 00:17:38,199 S1: Iran Alive has distributed 100,000 plus Bibles in the country 311 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,800 S1: since 2001. And you've seen 115,000 plus documented decisions for 312 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,920 S1: Christ since 2001. How do these people come in contact 313 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:49,879 S1: with your ministry and the gospel itself? 314 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,800 S4: Well, it used to be very hard, but now with 315 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,440 S4: the technology after the Covid, you know, the zoom and 316 00:17:56,440 --> 00:18:01,360 S4: all VPN, the secure lines and everything. Now they come 317 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,840 S4: to our meetings online and they're secure and we train them. 318 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,840 S4: We teach them and we minister to them. So it 319 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,480 S4: is possible because of technology that this relationship is not 320 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,360 S4: just one way I speak or we speak on satellite television. 321 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,840 S4: It's a two way. And let me give you an example, please. 322 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:25,320 S4: We started an online school. We said, this is not 323 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,480 S4: a regular school, that you come and you just get knowledge. 324 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,359 S4: We want to of course, you get knowledge about the Bible, 325 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:35,080 S4: but we want to equip you to be a servant, 326 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:39,990 S4: to be effective in ministry. Thousands of people have joined us. 327 00:18:40,109 --> 00:18:44,990 S4: We have over 4700 students signed up. Can we take 328 00:18:44,990 --> 00:18:48,310 S4: care of them? No. We just say, go watch this video. 329 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:51,230 S4: Only a few hundred of them. We can really have 330 00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:54,790 S4: a two way relationship to equip them. And I see 331 00:18:54,790 --> 00:18:59,190 S4: this picture. Think of 4700 people in a room. They're 332 00:18:59,190 --> 00:19:02,790 S4: all raising their hands. Hey, pastor Hormoz. Pick me, pick me. 333 00:19:02,790 --> 00:19:04,710 S4: I want to serve the Lord. I want to serve 334 00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:06,550 S4: the Lord. And I have to say, I'm sorry. We 335 00:19:06,590 --> 00:19:09,470 S4: don't have the resources. We only can pick a few 336 00:19:09,470 --> 00:19:12,590 S4: of you to train for ministry. So pray for us. 337 00:19:12,790 --> 00:19:15,310 S4: Come and join us to disciple that nation. 338 00:19:15,950 --> 00:19:18,310 S1: If you're just joining us, this is the land and 339 00:19:18,310 --> 00:19:21,910 S1: the book. I'm John Gager, our guest, doctor Hormoz Shariat, 340 00:19:21,910 --> 00:19:24,909 S1: founder of Iran Alive Ministries. A lot of us in 341 00:19:24,910 --> 00:19:30,550 S1: the West wonder how do Iran's religious clerics, these extremist Shiites, 342 00:19:30,590 --> 00:19:36,130 S1: manage to maintain such complete control? Why can't the citizens 343 00:19:36,170 --> 00:19:38,530 S1: get rid of the mean mullahs, or do they not 344 00:19:38,530 --> 00:19:39,369 S1: really want to? 345 00:19:40,369 --> 00:19:45,050 S4: Well, you have to understand the theology of Islam. It 346 00:19:45,050 --> 00:19:49,929 S4: comes from that in Islam. Human life is not valuable. 347 00:19:50,369 --> 00:19:53,450 S4: We are used to it in America because the base 348 00:19:53,490 --> 00:19:56,929 S4: is Christian. In America, one life matters because the Bible 349 00:19:56,970 --> 00:20:02,010 S4: talks about that. So you come to Islamic theology. God 350 00:20:02,010 --> 00:20:07,570 S4: created some for hell. That's incorrect. So because human life 351 00:20:07,570 --> 00:20:11,210 S4: is not important for the purpose of Islam, they have 352 00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:15,850 S4: no problem killing thousands. When people come on street and 353 00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:18,810 S4: they have done it several times these last ten years, 354 00:20:18,850 --> 00:20:22,890 S4: every time thousands of them are killed on the streets, 355 00:20:23,369 --> 00:20:27,609 S4: thousands by their own statistics, tens of thousands were arrested. 356 00:20:27,770 --> 00:20:32,649 S4: Many of them were tortured, raped and executed. So the 357 00:20:32,650 --> 00:20:35,480 S4: people of Iran in their homes. They know if they 358 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,880 S4: come on the streets, even protests, they will be killed. 359 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:42,160 S1: What are the top ways that the gospel is being 360 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,520 S1: shared in Iran today? Obviously you guys have got video, 361 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:48,840 S1: you've got satellite fed programming. What are some other ways 362 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:50,240 S1: that the gospel is shared? 363 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,600 S4: Well, we have started doing something and we see if 364 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,760 S4: you see our curve of number of salvations, it's exponentially growing. 365 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,200 S4: The reason we stopped just us sharing the gospel. We 366 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,840 S4: are using media to equip the people of Iran. This 367 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,680 S4: is how you share testimony. This is how you share 368 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,840 S4: the gospel. This is how you bring people to Christ. 369 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,480 S4: And so the best way after media, which gets, you know, 370 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:21,200 S4: our satellite television. Just imagine we get over the heads 371 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,479 S4: of these mullahs. Their signal goes over the heads of 372 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,760 S4: the mullahs into the privacy of people's homes. And the 373 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,000 S4: government cannot do anything. So one is media, but number two, 374 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:36,030 S4: True that we are doing it. To cause evangelism movement 375 00:21:36,030 --> 00:21:39,750 S4: is to equip the people, the believers in Iran, to 376 00:21:39,790 --> 00:21:42,350 S4: share the gospel with friends and family members. And you 377 00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:44,990 S4: know what? They are doing it. And that's why we 378 00:21:44,990 --> 00:21:47,710 S4: see an exponential growth in the number of salvations. 379 00:21:48,150 --> 00:21:52,469 S1: What's happening today in Iran. That's our conversation on the 380 00:21:52,470 --> 00:21:55,350 S1: land and the book with our guest, Doctor Hormoz Shariat, 381 00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:59,909 S1: with Iran Alive Ministries. What one change do you think 382 00:21:59,910 --> 00:22:02,990 S1: might make the biggest difference in the receptivity of the 383 00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:05,670 S1: gospel in Iran? If you could change one thing or 384 00:22:05,710 --> 00:22:07,870 S1: or tweak one thing, what do you dream about? 385 00:22:08,590 --> 00:22:13,140 S4: Well, the possibility of gathering the people, you know, 2 386 00:22:13,140 --> 00:22:16,670 S4: or 3 million, at least Iranian Muslims have come to Christ. 387 00:22:16,670 --> 00:22:19,830 S4: Maybe more people inside Iran tell me that it's more, 388 00:22:20,150 --> 00:22:24,750 S4: but they are not allowed to gather. Building churches are closed. 389 00:22:25,109 --> 00:22:30,030 S4: Attending a house church is dangerous and you get to 390 00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:32,980 S4: be arrested and go to jail. Did you know just 391 00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:36,260 S4: that two weeks ago, three people were arrested? One was 392 00:22:36,260 --> 00:22:39,900 S4: a young mother of a of a baby, and she 393 00:22:39,940 --> 00:22:43,939 S4: was sentenced to 17 years in jail. Do you know 394 00:22:43,940 --> 00:22:48,580 S4: what her crime was? Attending a house, church. Sometimes I 395 00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:51,060 S4: think the government of Iran believes in the power of 396 00:22:51,060 --> 00:22:53,739 S4: church more than we do. They don't want Christians to 397 00:22:53,780 --> 00:22:57,060 S4: gather together. To answer your question. Yeah. The next step 398 00:22:57,060 --> 00:23:02,580 S4: when Iran opens up gathering churches. Christians are so isolated, 399 00:23:02,820 --> 00:23:07,220 S4: gathering them into even a stadium. It will just explode. 400 00:23:07,380 --> 00:23:08,700 S4: Christianity in Iran. 401 00:23:09,260 --> 00:23:13,700 S1: Let's assume the country's present control and present trajectory continues 402 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:17,220 S1: as it does unchecked for the next 25 years. What 403 00:23:17,220 --> 00:23:20,180 S1: might Iran look like in 25 years? Spiritually? 404 00:23:21,060 --> 00:23:26,340 S4: My hope is that Jeremiah 4938 will come to pass. 405 00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:29,859 S4: You know, I say Iran will be a Christian nation. 406 00:23:29,930 --> 00:23:33,050 S4: And people say, are you crazy? Where did you get 407 00:23:33,050 --> 00:23:36,050 S4: that idea? I said, I stole that idea, I stole it. 408 00:23:36,090 --> 00:23:38,330 S4: Where did you steal it from? I steal it from 409 00:23:38,330 --> 00:23:42,570 S4: the Lord. And Jeremiah 4938 he says, I will set 410 00:23:42,609 --> 00:23:46,330 S4: my throne in Elam, which is completely inside the land 411 00:23:46,330 --> 00:23:49,449 S4: of Iran. So we know eventually Iran will be a 412 00:23:49,450 --> 00:23:53,530 S4: Christian nation because God promised it. Now, how fast we 413 00:23:53,570 --> 00:23:56,690 S4: are going, we could go really fast. So my hope 414 00:23:56,930 --> 00:24:01,170 S4: is that in 25 years, we will see Christianity be 415 00:24:01,650 --> 00:24:05,290 S4: so strong in Iran that they will be sending missionaries 416 00:24:05,290 --> 00:24:07,170 S4: to the region and even to the world. 417 00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:11,210 S1: What's the best way listeners can pray for Iran today? 418 00:24:11,290 --> 00:24:13,889 S1: Give us one or 2 or 3 ideas of specific 419 00:24:13,890 --> 00:24:14,890 S1: prayer requests. 420 00:24:15,730 --> 00:24:18,850 S4: Well, let me share the prayer request of the persecuted 421 00:24:18,850 --> 00:24:21,090 S4: Christians in Iran. I'm in touch with them. We have 422 00:24:21,130 --> 00:24:24,690 S4: underground churches in many, many cities. And when I ask them, 423 00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:28,449 S4: what should we pray for you? They say this, pray 424 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,800 S4: that we will have courage. That's it. Not even protection. 425 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,600 S4: Give us the courage that we will not be silent 426 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,000 S4: at this time. That Iranians are so open to the gospel. 427 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,480 S4: We will be. We have the courage to share it 428 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,000 S4: with friends, family members, even on the streets with the 429 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,720 S4: taxi driver. They are praying for courage. Of course, I 430 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,800 S4: pray for their protection and I ask you to do 431 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:52,360 S4: the same. 432 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,000 S1: You know, we've got a moment remaining. Would you mind 433 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,440 S1: praying yourself for their courage and protection, and do it 434 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,640 S1: in Farsi so that anybody listening, you know, who might 435 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,080 S1: speak Farsi would benefit from that as well? Would you please? 436 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:32,510 S4: Sure. John. Slammy Award to. Mohabbat. Iran. Mohabbat. Hameer. Mohabbat 437 00:25:33,310 --> 00:25:38,470 S4: in Mohabbat KE naam. Amen. 438 00:25:38,910 --> 00:25:42,990 S1: Amen. Thank you for that prayer. Thank you for this conversation. 439 00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:45,469 S1: It's always great to connect with you and we'll look 440 00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:47,469 S1: forward to another conversation. Doctor Shariat. 441 00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:50,030 S4: God bless you, John. You're doing great work. 442 00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:53,310 S1: Up next, it's your friend and mine, Gerald Peterman, with 443 00:25:53,310 --> 00:26:07,109 S1: a fresh set of Bible questions right here. As a 444 00:26:07,109 --> 00:26:10,710 S1: 15 year old boy, I had major back surgery. And 445 00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:12,710 S1: when it was all said and done, I was given 446 00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:16,510 S1: a body cast to wear for seven months. Imagine a 447 00:26:16,510 --> 00:26:19,709 S1: body cast from your shoulders down to your waist. And 448 00:26:19,710 --> 00:26:23,109 S1: what happens when your back starts to itch? Let me 449 00:26:23,109 --> 00:26:25,830 S1: tell you just about drives you crazy. That's what happens. 450 00:26:26,020 --> 00:26:30,020 S1: So ever since then, I have always appreciated the ability 451 00:26:30,020 --> 00:26:32,659 S1: to scratch an itch. And when it comes to reading 452 00:26:32,660 --> 00:26:36,260 S1: your Bible, you've got questions that feel just like an itch. 453 00:26:36,420 --> 00:26:38,739 S1: And this next segment is all about giving them a 454 00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:41,619 S1: good old scratch. All of that to say, welcome to 455 00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:44,940 S1: Doctor Gerald Peterman, our Bible question and answer man. 456 00:26:45,380 --> 00:26:47,980 S5: John, thanks so much for that introduction. That was great. 457 00:26:48,460 --> 00:26:51,100 S1: Well, before we get to our first question of the day, 458 00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:53,740 S1: I want to take us to Romans 116 that says 459 00:26:53,740 --> 00:26:56,979 S1: the gospel is to the Jew first and also to 460 00:26:57,020 --> 00:26:59,660 S1: the Gentile. But how do you share the gospel with 461 00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:03,700 S1: a Jewish person? Because of cultural, historical, and religious differences, 462 00:27:04,020 --> 00:27:07,899 S1: it's sometimes challenging to navigate a gospel conversation with someone 463 00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:11,460 S1: from a Jewish background. You ever wondered how the professionals 464 00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:12,100 S1: do it? 465 00:27:12,100 --> 00:27:14,860 S5: To answer this question, our friends at Life and Messiah 466 00:27:14,859 --> 00:27:17,820 S5: want to mail you samples of the tracks their staff 467 00:27:17,859 --> 00:27:20,820 S5: use as they share the gospel. This will serve a 468 00:27:20,859 --> 00:27:23,780 S5: dual purpose of equipping you with methods of presenting the 469 00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:27,129 S5: gospel and also supplying you with tracks you can share 470 00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:30,170 S5: with your Jewish friends and neighbors. Life in Messiah's Prayer 471 00:27:30,170 --> 00:27:32,449 S5: is that these tracks will help further the spread of 472 00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:35,129 S5: the gospel among the Jewish people. To receive this helpful 473 00:27:35,130 --> 00:27:37,410 S5: assortment of tracks, all you need to do is visit 474 00:27:37,410 --> 00:27:41,650 S5: Life in Messiah and click on the radio button for 475 00:27:41,650 --> 00:27:47,850 S5: more information. That's Messiah. Don't miss out on this great opportunity. 476 00:27:47,890 --> 00:27:50,050 S1: Thank you very much, Jerry. And if you've never heard 477 00:27:50,050 --> 00:27:53,290 S1: him before, Doctor Gerald Peterman is professor of Bible at 478 00:27:53,290 --> 00:27:56,010 S1: the Moody Bible Institute, a guy who really knows the 479 00:27:56,010 --> 00:27:58,729 S1: word and loves sharing his thoughts with you as you 480 00:27:58,730 --> 00:28:00,610 S1: send in your questions. And by the way, you can 481 00:28:00,609 --> 00:28:05,730 S1: email yours to the land and the book at Moody. Well, today, 482 00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:08,690 S1: Doctor Peterman, we have several questions that have come from 483 00:28:08,690 --> 00:28:13,010 S1: our sisters in Christ who are all survivors of domestic abuse. 484 00:28:13,369 --> 00:28:16,250 S1: And for this reason, they're going to remain anonymous as 485 00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:18,930 S1: we discuss their questions. But we wanted to answer this 486 00:28:18,970 --> 00:28:20,250 S1: important collection, didn't we? 487 00:28:20,330 --> 00:28:21,530 S5: Oh, indeed we do. 488 00:28:21,570 --> 00:28:23,830 S1: All right, let's start with this one. This lady says 489 00:28:23,830 --> 00:28:27,550 S1: I'm a domestic abuse survivor. The domestic violence community is 490 00:28:27,550 --> 00:28:32,030 S1: split between forgive them because forgiveness is ultimately for you, 491 00:28:32,030 --> 00:28:34,230 S1: and you don't have to forgive them if you don't 492 00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:38,070 S1: want to. Can you help me understand what biblical forgiveness is? 493 00:28:38,110 --> 00:28:40,590 S5: Oh, this is a great question. We must understand it. 494 00:28:40,630 --> 00:28:44,670 S5: When someone hurts us badly, here's what often happens in 495 00:28:44,670 --> 00:28:47,470 S5: our heart and mind. We think they should pay and 496 00:28:47,470 --> 00:28:49,630 S5: that we are the people who should make them pay. 497 00:28:49,670 --> 00:28:53,110 S5: That we have the right to bring the justice. What 498 00:28:53,110 --> 00:28:58,150 S5: is forgiveness? Forgiveness is relinquishing that belief that we have 499 00:28:58,150 --> 00:29:00,830 S5: the right to bring the justice and turning it over 500 00:29:00,830 --> 00:29:04,590 S5: to God. God is the one who says, vengeance is mine, 501 00:29:04,590 --> 00:29:08,469 S5: says the Lord, I will repay. That's Deuteronomy 3235. And 502 00:29:08,470 --> 00:29:12,710 S5: Paul quotes that also in Romans 12. We trust God 503 00:29:12,750 --> 00:29:16,590 S5: as the all seeing righteous judge. So forgiveness does not 504 00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:20,590 S5: mean pretending that nothing horrible happened. No, no, forgiveness is 505 00:29:20,590 --> 00:29:25,620 S5: needed because something painful happened. This is why forgiveness is 506 00:29:25,620 --> 00:29:28,220 S5: so hard for us. Because it feels like we're giving 507 00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:31,460 S5: up our rights and we're not. We're turning it over 508 00:29:31,460 --> 00:29:33,580 S5: to the person who has the right. 509 00:29:33,620 --> 00:29:37,860 S1: Mhm. That's well said. Thank you. Next question. Doesn't the 510 00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:42,380 S1: person who hurt me need to repent before I can forgive. 511 00:29:42,700 --> 00:29:47,340 S5: Ah that's very important to my answer is no no 512 00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:51,140 S5: no we want repentance. Don't get me wrong. Yes. That's biblical. Yeah. 513 00:29:51,420 --> 00:29:57,540 S5: But we can forgive one sidedly. We can forgive unilaterally, 514 00:29:57,740 --> 00:30:00,459 S5: with or without the other person's repentance. Let me give 515 00:30:00,460 --> 00:30:02,860 S5: you an example of this. And it's a wonderful example. 516 00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:05,940 S5: If you're in acts chapter seven, you know that Stephen 517 00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:08,540 S5: has just given a long speech. Yes. And, you know, 518 00:30:08,540 --> 00:30:11,980 S5: the crowd is hostile. And then the crowd picks up 519 00:30:11,980 --> 00:30:15,660 S5: stones and they begin to stone him. What does Stephen do? 520 00:30:15,860 --> 00:30:20,420 S5: He falls on his knees and he says to the Lord, Lord, 521 00:30:20,420 --> 00:30:24,810 S5: do not hold this sin against them. But they haven't repented, 522 00:30:25,050 --> 00:30:27,930 S5: and yet he's forgiving them, and he's asking that the 523 00:30:27,930 --> 00:30:31,370 S5: Lord will forgive them too. So we can forgive while 524 00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:32,970 S5: others remain hostile. 525 00:30:33,050 --> 00:30:35,650 S1: I wonder if there's a different facet to this conversation 526 00:30:35,810 --> 00:30:39,490 S1: in that as much as it feels maybe emotionally somewhat 527 00:30:39,530 --> 00:30:42,530 S1: empowering to say I can't forgive you or won't forgive 528 00:30:42,530 --> 00:30:45,969 S1: you until you repent. On the other hand, if that's 529 00:30:45,970 --> 00:30:50,530 S1: the requirement, it then makes it impossible for us to forgive. 530 00:30:50,570 --> 00:30:52,770 S1: We're suddenly held hostage again. 531 00:30:52,810 --> 00:30:56,450 S5: You're exactly right, John. We could be held hostage by 532 00:30:56,490 --> 00:30:59,410 S5: their need to repent. And I think that puts us 533 00:30:59,410 --> 00:31:01,650 S5: in a horrible place, spiritually and emotionally. 534 00:31:01,690 --> 00:31:03,770 S1: And again, none of this is to minimize the damage, 535 00:31:03,770 --> 00:31:04,930 S1: the pain that's been done. 536 00:31:04,970 --> 00:31:06,250 S5: Right. Absolutely. 537 00:31:06,290 --> 00:31:08,610 S1: All right, let's go on. As we continue with people, 538 00:31:08,650 --> 00:31:11,650 S1: our sisters in Christ, who are survivors of domestic abuse. 539 00:31:11,650 --> 00:31:14,770 S1: And they're sharing questions today in this unusual collection. Uh, 540 00:31:14,770 --> 00:31:17,370 S1: this person says these days, looking back on all the 541 00:31:17,370 --> 00:31:21,200 S1: really bad days with my ex-husband, It feels like forgiveness 542 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,480 S1: is a minute by minute occurrence, not a one and 543 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,840 S1: done thing. Is that okay? Is. Is forgiveness one and done? 544 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:33,160 S5: One and done. Hmm. I think the answer is sometimes yes, 545 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:39,440 S5: sometimes no. That is, sometimes we commit to forgiveness and 546 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,840 S5: then weeks go by, or then months go by and 547 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,000 S5: the bitterness comes back into our heart. And we need 548 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,720 S5: to recommit to our forgiveness. So one and done maybe. 549 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,960 S5: But often we have to recommit to forgiveness. Let me 550 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,640 S5: illustrate it this way. There's a time when we come 551 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,200 S5: to know Christ, and when we come to know Christ, 552 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:04,120 S5: we become genuinely his genuinely forgiven. But then wait some 553 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,000 S5: weeks go by, or some months go by and we 554 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,120 S5: fail in our discipleship. And so what do we do? 555 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:12,480 S5: Give up being disciples? No, we recommit to discipleship. It's 556 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:16,000 S5: the same thing with forgiveness. We can give it once, genuinely, 557 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,310 S5: and then find that we have to recommit to that 558 00:32:19,310 --> 00:32:21,390 S5: decision over and over and over again. 559 00:32:21,870 --> 00:32:24,710 S1: I love these answers, and I appreciate the fact that 560 00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:27,630 S1: you're just making the Bible sort of work itself out 561 00:32:27,630 --> 00:32:30,830 S1: in everyday situations and in dramatic situations like this. 562 00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:33,310 S5: Yeah. Yeah. So if I can interject here a little 563 00:32:33,350 --> 00:32:35,790 S5: something different. You know, this is my prayer for our 564 00:32:35,790 --> 00:32:39,870 S5: listeners that they would be able to keep on that journey. Yeah. 565 00:32:39,910 --> 00:32:43,310 S5: And keep recommitting to forgiveness. And please, listeners, don't give up. 566 00:32:43,310 --> 00:32:45,390 S5: It's going to be hard, but don't give up. 567 00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:49,070 S1: That's Doctor Gerald Peterman, who welcomes your Bible questions at 568 00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:53,470 S1: the land and the book at Moody. A collection have 569 00:32:53,470 --> 00:32:57,110 S1: come in from Sisters in Christ, survivors of domestic abuse. 570 00:32:57,150 --> 00:32:58,910 S1: We're trying to get to as many of them as 571 00:32:58,910 --> 00:33:03,630 S1: possible today. Is forgiveness the same as reconciliation, or can 572 00:33:03,670 --> 00:33:06,870 S1: there be boundaries? For example, can I forgive my ex 573 00:33:06,870 --> 00:33:08,590 S1: but not let him back into my life? 574 00:33:08,710 --> 00:33:14,110 S5: Oh wow, three really great questions. First, forgiveness is not 575 00:33:14,110 --> 00:33:17,340 S5: the same thing as reconciliation. That is. Again, it can 576 00:33:17,340 --> 00:33:21,820 S5: be one sided. Uh, brothers and sisters out there. Let's 577 00:33:21,820 --> 00:33:27,060 S5: keep something in mind. Uh, you forgive someone who hurt you, 578 00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:32,420 S5: but that doesn't change his or her habits. If if 579 00:33:32,420 --> 00:33:34,380 S5: he has a habit of hurting you, then no matter 580 00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:36,220 S5: how many times you forgive him, he's still going to 581 00:33:36,220 --> 00:33:39,100 S5: have the habit of hurting you. Yes, and I think 582 00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:43,660 S5: Jesus gives us the right to protect ourselves. Matthew ten 583 00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:47,340 S5: verse 23 Jesus sends out the apostles two by two. 584 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:50,620 S5: And what does he say? He says, you go into 585 00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:54,940 S5: a city and they persecute you. Flee to another city. 586 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:57,300 S5: Notice what he does not say. You go into a 587 00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:02,300 S5: city and they persecute you. Stay there until you're murdered. No, he. 588 00:34:02,340 --> 00:34:06,980 S5: He allows us to find safety for ourselves. Paul himself, 589 00:34:06,980 --> 00:34:11,060 S5: even in acts 22, he called upon his Roman citizenship 590 00:34:11,060 --> 00:34:14,540 S5: so that he wouldn't be illegally beaten. So I think 591 00:34:14,940 --> 00:34:17,529 S5: we have the right to put some distance, put some 592 00:34:17,530 --> 00:34:19,090 S5: boundaries around our life. 593 00:34:19,290 --> 00:34:22,730 S1: This listener wants to know who is forgiveness ultimately for. 594 00:34:22,850 --> 00:34:25,650 S1: Is it for me or is it for my abuser? 595 00:34:26,290 --> 00:34:29,969 S5: I want to say forgiveness is often for three people. 596 00:34:30,290 --> 00:34:33,690 S5: Forgiveness is often for us because if we don't forgive, 597 00:34:33,730 --> 00:34:37,890 S5: we're just going to let hostility, anger, and bitterness fester. 598 00:34:37,890 --> 00:34:39,810 S5: We don't need that. That's going to keep us away 599 00:34:39,810 --> 00:34:40,330 S5: from love. 600 00:34:40,370 --> 00:34:42,930 S1: Let all bitterness and wrath and anger be put away 601 00:34:42,930 --> 00:34:43,330 S1: from you. 602 00:34:43,370 --> 00:34:46,810 S5: Amen. That's from Ephesians somewhere, if I'm not mistaken. Chapter four. 603 00:34:46,850 --> 00:34:49,609 S5: Chapter four. Yeah. Good, good. But I think also there 604 00:34:49,650 --> 00:34:53,569 S5: are times when forgiveness is for God. He commands us 605 00:34:53,570 --> 00:34:56,650 S5: to forgive. When we forgive, we live in obedience to him. 606 00:34:56,650 --> 00:34:59,170 S5: He is pleased with us. We're pleased with him. It 607 00:34:59,170 --> 00:35:03,450 S5: brings him glory. When we live out Christ's forgiveness, I 608 00:35:03,450 --> 00:35:06,770 S5: think it brings him glory. But I think third, sometimes 609 00:35:06,810 --> 00:35:11,250 S5: forgiveness is for the offender. When the offender repents and 610 00:35:11,250 --> 00:35:15,549 S5: we forgive. Oh, that can communicate the love of Christ 611 00:35:15,750 --> 00:35:18,589 S5: in ways that maybe he's never experienced before. So I 612 00:35:18,590 --> 00:35:21,149 S5: think forgiveness is for all the parties involved. 613 00:35:21,190 --> 00:35:25,350 S1: Yeah. There's a popular country breakup song where the singer 614 00:35:25,350 --> 00:35:28,310 S1: talks about the man who hurt her, and the lady says, 615 00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:32,750 S1: God knows I don't owe you forgiveness. Is forgiveness something 616 00:35:32,750 --> 00:35:34,230 S1: which is owed? 617 00:35:34,469 --> 00:35:38,509 S5: Oh, wow. Short answer. No. Forgiveness is not owed. There 618 00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:41,230 S5: are several times in Scripture where Scripture talks about what 619 00:35:41,230 --> 00:35:43,390 S5: we're obligated to do, what we're owed to do. This 620 00:35:43,390 --> 00:35:48,270 S5: is not one of them. However, Scripture also says Matthew 621 00:35:48,270 --> 00:35:53,669 S5: ten verse eight, Jesus says, you have freely received, freely give. 622 00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:57,310 S5: So I don't take it that forgiveness is owed, but 623 00:35:57,310 --> 00:36:00,750 S5: because we've received so much already, I think it should 624 00:36:00,750 --> 00:36:03,069 S5: flow from us that we're ready to give it as 625 00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:03,710 S5: much as possible. 626 00:36:03,750 --> 00:36:06,230 S1: Well, some might say, but forgiveness is commanded forgive as 627 00:36:06,230 --> 00:36:09,310 S1: the Lord forgave you. We're told in Colossians, forgive whatever 628 00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:10,990 S1: grievances you may have against one another. 629 00:36:11,030 --> 00:36:14,500 S5: Yes. Oh, yes, I completely agree, I think forgiveness is 630 00:36:14,500 --> 00:36:18,660 S5: a command indeed, but I'm not sure that forgiveness is 631 00:36:18,660 --> 00:36:22,340 S5: what we owe our abuser. I would view those two 632 00:36:22,380 --> 00:36:23,660 S5: as a little bit differently. 633 00:36:23,700 --> 00:36:26,860 S1: Yeah, well, we have covered quite the range of questions 634 00:36:26,860 --> 00:36:30,540 S1: today from survivors of domestic abuse. And you should know 635 00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:33,900 S1: that your question about any subject is always welcome. Typically 636 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,460 S1: we're answering verses in Scripture that have puzzled you, but 637 00:36:37,460 --> 00:36:40,260 S1: those questions are welcome at the land and the book 638 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:43,540 S1: at Moody's. And there's one more segment to come on 639 00:36:43,540 --> 00:36:47,580 S1: the program. It's Charlie Dyer's devotional. That's right here. Stick around. 640 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:02,300 S1: When you think about it, from the moment you learn 641 00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:06,660 S1: to walk, you are facing all kinds of danger, dangers 642 00:37:06,660 --> 00:37:09,180 S1: from things in the way, dangers from things that might 643 00:37:09,219 --> 00:37:12,169 S1: trip you up, dangers from your own missteps. steps, but 644 00:37:12,170 --> 00:37:14,890 S1: the same is also true spiritually. Hi, I'm John Geiger. 645 00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:17,250 S1: This is the land and the book segment for where 646 00:37:17,290 --> 00:37:19,330 S1: am I going with all that? You'll find out after 647 00:37:19,330 --> 00:37:21,610 S1: we listen to this testimony from somebody who's traveled to 648 00:37:21,610 --> 00:37:24,410 S1: the Holy Land and shares this with you and me. 649 00:37:28,770 --> 00:37:33,210 S6: I was in Israel in 2006. One of the most 650 00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:37,810 S6: memorable times for me was when our tour went on 651 00:37:37,810 --> 00:37:41,649 S6: the Sea of Galilee, and I thought of all the 652 00:37:41,650 --> 00:37:45,810 S6: places that Jesus had been. I know that the Sea 653 00:37:45,850 --> 00:37:49,489 S6: of Galilee was written in the Bible as where he was, 654 00:37:50,050 --> 00:37:54,089 S6: and it is there today. So we're sitting on this boat, 655 00:37:54,130 --> 00:37:59,650 S6: and the tour guide is speaking, and a big storm 656 00:37:59,650 --> 00:38:04,370 S6: and winds came in, and it just brought us all 657 00:38:04,370 --> 00:38:10,129 S6: back to that time when we considered Jesus calming the storm. 658 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,280 S7: Well, we were in Israel about three years ago, and 659 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,880 S7: my biggest experience was, uh, in a boat on the 660 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,000 S7: Sea of Galilee singing worship songs. We were with a 661 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,760 S7: group with different nationalities, and we had four languages going 662 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,920 S7: on at the same time crossing the Sea of Galilee, 663 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,960 S7: worshiping the Lord. It was a wonderful experience. And of course, 664 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,839 S7: staying at a lodge there right on the sea and 665 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,400 S7: reading the word in the morning. Being right there was. 666 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,239 S7: It was great. 667 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,600 S1: Charlie, I'm looking forward to your devotional here. The danger 668 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,000 S1: of looking down. I'm curious where we're headed. 669 00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,040 S2: Well, we're going to start in New York City. When 670 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,000 S2: I was about eight, my parents took me to New 671 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,320 S2: York City, and I remember standing on the observation deck 672 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,960 S2: at Rockefeller Center, peering down at the street below and 673 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,719 S2: being afraid. They shared some wise advice. Don't look straight down. 674 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,629 S2: Surprisingly it worked. I wasn't scared looking out in the distance. 675 00:39:11,870 --> 00:39:13,790 S2: As long as I didn't try to look over the edge, 676 00:39:13,790 --> 00:39:17,149 S2: I was fine. Maybe someone should have shouted that same 677 00:39:17,150 --> 00:39:19,669 S2: advice to King David when he stood on the roof 678 00:39:19,670 --> 00:39:22,910 S2: of his palace and looked down at Bathsheba. Now, if 679 00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:24,989 S2: you grew up here in the West, you might have 680 00:39:24,989 --> 00:39:28,150 S2: struggled to envision that story as described in the Bible. 681 00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:31,030 S2: When you read that David got up and walked around 682 00:39:31,030 --> 00:39:33,469 S2: on the roof of the palace, you might picture the 683 00:39:33,469 --> 00:39:37,190 S2: king in his flannel robe, gingerly shuffling his way across 684 00:39:37,190 --> 00:39:40,190 S2: the top of a pitched roof. And then when it says, 685 00:39:40,190 --> 00:39:42,710 S2: from the roof, he saw a woman bathing. You might 686 00:39:42,750 --> 00:39:45,270 S2: have imagined him peering through the bathroom window in an 687 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:49,190 S2: adjoining house. Well, archaeologists have uncovered what they believe are 688 00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:52,790 S2: the foundations of the palace built by David. And it 689 00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:55,230 S2: stands on the northern edge of the original city of 690 00:39:55,230 --> 00:39:58,430 S2: David and looks down over the Kidron Valley. From here, 691 00:39:58,430 --> 00:40:02,270 S2: the story of David and Bathsheba comes into clearer focus. 692 00:40:02,670 --> 00:40:05,110 S2: The houses were stacked, one on top of the other 693 00:40:05,110 --> 00:40:08,340 S2: as they made their way up the steep hillside. Each 694 00:40:08,380 --> 00:40:10,819 S2: house had a flat roof, so a person standing on 695 00:40:10,820 --> 00:40:13,100 S2: the roof of his or her house could look over 696 00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:16,219 S2: the side to see the houses below. From the roof 697 00:40:16,219 --> 00:40:18,500 S2: of his palace at the upper end of the city. 698 00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:21,540 S2: David had a clear view onto the flat rooftops of 699 00:40:21,540 --> 00:40:26,580 S2: the houses down below. David, don't look down. But he 700 00:40:26,580 --> 00:40:30,219 S2: did look and saw Bathsheba bathing. Perhaps she thought she 701 00:40:30,219 --> 00:40:33,379 S2: was safe from prying eyes. It was late evening, and 702 00:40:33,380 --> 00:40:37,180 S2: most people should have been asleep. Remember, David had gotten 703 00:40:37,180 --> 00:40:40,299 S2: up from his bed to take his nighttime stroll, and 704 00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:44,180 S2: the army was away fighting the ammonites. Bathsheba thought she 705 00:40:44,180 --> 00:40:48,020 S2: was alone, but she was wrong. David looked down, and 706 00:40:48,020 --> 00:40:50,700 S2: the events that followed marred the rest of his reign 707 00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:54,259 S2: as king. Were all too familiar with what happened. And 708 00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:56,419 S2: yet there are people today who still think they can 709 00:40:56,420 --> 00:41:01,180 S2: disobey God without consequences until it's too late. But I 710 00:41:01,180 --> 00:41:04,020 S2: want to take our story in another direction as we 711 00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:07,330 S2: turn from our perch here and look south. A ridge 712 00:41:07,330 --> 00:41:10,210 S2: in the distance blocks our view. Were we able to 713 00:41:10,250 --> 00:41:14,290 S2: look directly through that ridge, we could see Bethlehem. And 714 00:41:14,290 --> 00:41:17,090 S2: just to the west of Bethlehem is an Arab town 715 00:41:17,090 --> 00:41:20,650 S2: named Beit Jala, which preserves the location of the ancient 716 00:41:20,650 --> 00:41:25,850 S2: biblical town of Gilo. Ever heard of Gilo? Most people haven't. 717 00:41:25,850 --> 00:41:30,810 S2: But Gilo was the hometown of one of Israel's wisest counselors, Ahithophel. 718 00:41:31,090 --> 00:41:34,370 S2: He was a trusted advisor to David. Here's how he's 719 00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:37,890 S2: described in two Samuel 16. Now, in those days, the 720 00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:41,370 S2: advice Ahithophel gave was like that of one who inquires 721 00:41:41,370 --> 00:41:46,489 S2: of God. When Ahithophel spoke, people listened. But what does 722 00:41:46,489 --> 00:41:49,290 S2: Ahithophel have to do with David and Bathsheba? And the 723 00:41:49,290 --> 00:41:53,969 S2: danger of looking down following David's sin with Bathsheba. Ahithophel 724 00:41:53,969 --> 00:41:58,410 S2: joined forces with David's son Absalom in his rebellion against David. 725 00:41:58,850 --> 00:42:02,969 S2: Ahithophel gave Absalom two words of advice one. He followed, 726 00:42:03,250 --> 00:42:06,040 S2: the other he did not. And his failure to follow 727 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,480 S2: Ahithophel second recommendation ultimately cost Absalom his life. So what 728 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,439 S2: did Ahithophel counsel? First, he told Absalom to lie with 729 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,480 S2: your father's concubines. On the roof of the palace. Absalom 730 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,520 S2: committed adultery with these women who were part of David's 731 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:26,360 S2: royal harem, and he did so publicly on the roof 732 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,840 S2: in the sight of all Israel. Second, Ahithophel told Absalom 733 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,160 S2: to pursue David immediately before he could organize an army 734 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:38,480 S2: to defend himself. God used the advice of another advisor 735 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:43,400 S2: to thwart Ahithophel counsel. Otherwise, from a human perspective, David 736 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,120 S2: would have been pursued, caught, and killed. Ahithophel was wise 737 00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,239 S2: enough to know that Absalom's failure to immediately pursue David 738 00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:55,240 S2: would doom his rebellion. It would only be a matter 739 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:59,640 S2: of time till David returned to deal with all the co-conspirators, 740 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:03,799 S2: including Ahithophel himself. The Bible tells us what happened next 741 00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:07,419 S2: When Ahithophel saw that his advice had not been followed, he. 742 00:43:07,460 --> 00:43:10,299 S2: Saddled his donkey and set out for his house in 743 00:43:10,300 --> 00:43:13,299 S2: his hometown of Gilo. He put his house in order 744 00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:17,660 S2: and then hanged himself. Everyone else thought Absalom had already won. 745 00:43:17,700 --> 00:43:20,380 S2: He was the new king. His father had been vanquished, 746 00:43:20,380 --> 00:43:24,660 S2: forced to flee. But Ahithophel knew Absalom had just doomed 747 00:43:24,660 --> 00:43:28,339 S2: the entire rebellion. And he was right. But if he 748 00:43:28,340 --> 00:43:30,980 S2: was so smart to begin with, why did he turn 749 00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:35,020 S2: against David after David sinned with Bathsheba? What made this 750 00:43:35,020 --> 00:43:38,980 S2: wise man take part in such a foolish rebellion? The 751 00:43:38,980 --> 00:43:43,780 S2: answer is found by comparing Ahithophel and Bathsheba's family background. 752 00:43:44,219 --> 00:43:46,419 S2: When David first noticed her on the roof, he asked 753 00:43:46,420 --> 00:43:50,180 S2: a servant to find out who she was. Isn't this Bathsheba, 754 00:43:50,219 --> 00:43:53,259 S2: the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite? 755 00:43:53,620 --> 00:43:56,299 S2: Now we focus on her husband Uriah because of what 756 00:43:56,300 --> 00:43:59,380 S2: happens next in the story. But notice that the Bible 757 00:43:59,380 --> 00:44:03,770 S2: also tells us the name of her father. Ilium. Ilium 758 00:44:03,770 --> 00:44:06,290 S2: was a man of great ability in his own right. 759 00:44:06,330 --> 00:44:09,290 S2: He is listed among the group of valiant warriors closest 760 00:44:09,290 --> 00:44:13,450 S2: to David, known collectively as the 30. Uriah the Hittite 761 00:44:13,489 --> 00:44:16,570 S2: also numbered among this elite group. And we learned one 762 00:44:16,570 --> 00:44:21,090 S2: additional detail in second Samuel 23. Ilium was the son 763 00:44:21,090 --> 00:44:26,850 S2: of Ahithophel the Gilonite. And there's the link. Ahithophel son 764 00:44:26,850 --> 00:44:31,930 S2: was ilium. Ilium. His daughter was Bathsheba. David's scandal with 765 00:44:31,930 --> 00:44:35,490 S2: Bathsheba was an affront to her grandfather, one he could 766 00:44:35,489 --> 00:44:38,089 S2: not forgive. And from then on he looked for a 767 00:44:38,090 --> 00:44:41,450 S2: way to seek revenge on David for dishonoring his family 768 00:44:41,450 --> 00:44:45,049 S2: in such a public way. This wise man was eventually 769 00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:49,490 S2: undone by his own intense hatred of David. What lessons 770 00:44:49,489 --> 00:44:52,970 S2: can we take away from our time here? I see two, 771 00:44:53,210 --> 00:44:56,770 S2: and I believe both center around the phrase don't look down. 772 00:44:57,330 --> 00:45:01,330 S2: Davidson was sexual and looking down onto the roofs below 773 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:05,600 S2: He saw, then desired, then acted on his desire and 774 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,680 S2: committed adultery. If you're struggling with sexual temptation today, don't 775 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,319 S2: look down. Don't put yourself in a position where you 776 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:18,239 S2: allow yourself even to be tempted. The second lesson comes 777 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,920 S2: from Ahithophel, the man from Gilo. He allowed his anger 778 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,680 S2: to fester until it exploded into hatred. He looked down 779 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:29,080 S2: on David for what David had done. Now was what 780 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:33,240 S2: David did wrong? Yes. And God confronted him over it. 781 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,560 S2: But Ahithophel hid his anger and looked down on the 782 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,719 S2: one who had caused him embarrassment and pain like an 783 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,000 S2: untreated infection. The anger and hatred grew until they caused 784 00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,560 S2: this wise man to make a very foolish choice that 785 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,319 S2: ultimately cost him his life. We all experience injustice, but 786 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,319 S2: instead of letting our anger fester, we need to learn 787 00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,480 S2: how to look up, to see the God who has 788 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:01,310 S2: demonstrated forgiveness to us and who provides us with his 789 00:46:01,310 --> 00:46:05,750 S2: grace so we can extend our forgiveness to others. What 790 00:46:05,790 --> 00:46:11,029 S2: temptation are you facing today? Whatever it is, don't look down. 791 00:46:11,989 --> 00:46:14,670 S1: Charlie. It seems to me that Ahithophel, of course, was 792 00:46:14,670 --> 00:46:18,790 S1: ultimately responsible for his own choices, his own course. And yet, 793 00:46:18,790 --> 00:46:22,870 S1: David's choices had a dramatic impact on his downfall. 794 00:46:22,910 --> 00:46:25,190 S2: You're exactly right, John. And that shows why sin is 795 00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:28,670 S2: so insidious. It impacts not just us, but almost everyone 796 00:46:28,670 --> 00:46:30,190 S2: around us and everything we touch. 797 00:46:30,390 --> 00:46:32,910 S1: Well, a very powerful devotional, as always. And maybe you'd 798 00:46:32,910 --> 00:46:35,509 S1: like to hear it again. You can do that easily 799 00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:38,790 S1: as you access our podcast, available at the website. The 800 00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:44,230 S1: land and the book. The land and the book. Org. Well, 801 00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:46,549 S1: our time is gone, but Lord willing, we'll meet again 802 00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:49,430 S1: next time at this same time, for another edition of 803 00:46:49,430 --> 00:46:52,509 S1: The Land and the book, a production of Moody Radio, 804 00:46:52,550 --> 00:46:54,910 S1: a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.