WEBVTT - The Parent’s Battle Plan | Laine Lawson Craft 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:03.720 Hope for parents of prodigals is straight ahead on building 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:05.960 relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:10.280 You have to realize this is a spiritual battle, and 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:12.200 not only do we need to stand in the gap 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.400 for our children and pray in a way we never 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.480 have in the power of Jesus, but we also got 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:20.120 to dig deep with God and partner with him so 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:22.000 he can sustain us through it. 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.840 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:33.440 the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Today, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.200 award winning author and speaker Lane Lawson Craft will present 0:00:37.200 --> 0:00:39.600 a battle plan for parents of prodigals. 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.240 If you go to building relationships, you'll see two resources 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.280 from our guests that go together. One is Warfare Parenting, 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.240 which is a daily battle plan to fight for your child. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.080 The other is the parents battle plan warfare strategies to 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.200 win back your prodigal. You'll find those at building relationships. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.870 And Gary, I know this topic is on the minds 0:01:00.870 --> 0:01:02.830 of an awful lot of parents today. 0:01:03.350 --> 0:01:06.229 You are absolutely right, Chris. Over the last 2 or 0:01:06.230 --> 0:01:09.030 3 years, I've had so many parents in my office, 0:01:09.350 --> 0:01:13.069 particularly struggling with this whole thing of prodigals, adult children 0:01:13.069 --> 0:01:16.790 who are making decisions that are breaking their hearts. But 0:01:16.830 --> 0:01:19.270 so I'm excited about our conversation today. I think it's 0:01:19.270 --> 0:01:22.390 going to help not only parents who have prodigals, but 0:01:22.390 --> 0:01:26.709 also parents, because all of us could use some help 0:01:26.709 --> 0:01:29.509 in parenting, whether it's with our younger children or our 0:01:29.510 --> 0:01:30.470 adult children. 0:01:30.990 --> 0:01:33.910 Well, let me introduce our guest. Layne Lawson Kraft is 0:01:33.910 --> 0:01:37.590 a best selling author. She hosts the podcast Warfare Parenting. 0:01:37.790 --> 0:01:41.030 She and her husband, Steve, have been married almost 40 years. 0:01:41.230 --> 0:01:44.190 She's a mom, of course, and now a grandmother. And 0:01:44.190 --> 0:01:48.350 her featured resources today, as I mentioned, warfare, parenting, and 0:01:48.350 --> 0:01:51.230 the parent's battle plan. You can find out more at 0:01:51.230 --> 0:01:52.510 Building Relationships. 0:01:54.150 --> 0:01:56.590 Well, welcome to Building Relationships. 0:01:57.030 --> 0:02:00.830 Oh, thank you so much. What an urgent message, isn't it, 0:02:00.830 --> 0:02:02.510 for our parents and grandparents? 0:02:02.550 --> 0:02:06.470 Yes, absolutely. I'm looking forward to our conversation. So let's 0:02:06.470 --> 0:02:10.470 start with your story. You and your husband, Steve, because 0:02:10.470 --> 0:02:12.870 in one of your books, you write about the struggles 0:02:12.870 --> 0:02:16.669 you all had, and you say you make the statement, 0:02:16.669 --> 0:02:19.830 the best money you ever spent was for counseling. This 0:02:19.830 --> 0:02:21.910 apparently was when you and Steve were having some real 0:02:21.910 --> 0:02:24.270 struggles in your own marriage. Talk about that. 0:02:24.669 --> 0:02:28.389 Absolutely. And I thank you for for mentioning that because 0:02:28.750 --> 0:02:31.950 as we get further in this interview, you will see 0:02:31.950 --> 0:02:36.269 that this resurrected marriage, and that's what we call it, uh, 0:02:36.910 --> 0:02:40.149 is the anchor that held us together when our three 0:02:40.150 --> 0:02:44.669 children were prodigals. So yes, we were entrepreneurs. We got 0:02:44.669 --> 0:02:49.470 out of college. We started our own businesses separately. Uh, 0:02:49.710 --> 0:02:53.350 life started layering. I had two miscarriages, then three children 0:02:53.350 --> 0:02:57.820 in a row and about 17 years in the marriage. 0:02:58.060 --> 0:03:01.100 We were living on opposite ends of the house and 0:03:01.340 --> 0:03:04.500 we were really about to divorce. But I love to 0:03:04.500 --> 0:03:08.019 say we were too broke to divorce, so that was 0:03:08.020 --> 0:03:11.419 the only thing that kept us together, was we couldn't 0:03:11.419 --> 0:03:16.899 afford two separate households. Uh, what was very interesting was 0:03:16.940 --> 0:03:21.739 Steve was the exact age that when his parents divorced, 0:03:21.940 --> 0:03:26.139 when we were making this decision and I came from 0:03:26.139 --> 0:03:29.419 a baby of five, my parents were uneducated, but they 0:03:29.419 --> 0:03:33.740 loved us large and just a very great upbringing. So 0:03:33.740 --> 0:03:38.780 we had two very unique environments of growing up and experiences. 0:03:38.780 --> 0:03:41.300 So all I'm going to get to is this. We 0:03:41.300 --> 0:03:45.060 were living religious. We were doing all the right things. 0:03:45.060 --> 0:03:48.060 We went to church, I, I taught Bible study, I 0:03:48.100 --> 0:03:50.860 sang on Praise Team. Steve and I were in the choir, 0:03:51.500 --> 0:03:56.820 but religion was failing us. Our marriage was dead. I 0:03:56.900 --> 0:03:59.340 used to say to my best friends, I love to 0:03:59.380 --> 0:04:02.300 hate this guy I'm married to. I mean, it was 0:04:02.300 --> 0:04:06.940 dark and it was desperate. Um, but what we did 0:04:06.940 --> 0:04:13.060 decide was if this guide that we've been serving in 0:04:13.100 --> 0:04:16.500 kind of a religious check the box way is real, 0:04:16.779 --> 0:04:22.620 could we maybe believe, um, we both were pretty successful. 0:04:22.620 --> 0:04:25.580 And I like to say we both were pretty good looking. Uh, 0:04:25.580 --> 0:04:29.380 we knew that if we did indeed divorce, that we 0:04:29.380 --> 0:04:33.940 wouldn't stay single. And it dawned on us that maybe 0:04:33.940 --> 0:04:38.580 this God we knew, we thought we knew, but wanted 0:04:38.580 --> 0:04:42.380 to really know better. Could he help us start again 0:04:42.380 --> 0:04:44.820 from scratch? And that was the title of the book 0:04:44.820 --> 0:04:47.900 Start Again from scratch. So we grabbed each other's hands 0:04:48.100 --> 0:04:51.180 and fell to our knees and said, God, we've been 0:04:51.180 --> 0:04:55.850 in a 17 year old bad dance. We've done things 0:04:56.450 --> 0:04:59.650 horribly to each other. There's resentment. But God, if you're 0:04:59.650 --> 0:05:03.290 for real, will you come down and touch us and 0:05:03.290 --> 0:05:07.409 help us find a way to love again? And y'all, 0:05:07.650 --> 0:05:12.170 I mean, it was unbelievable. We looked at each other 0:05:12.210 --> 0:05:15.730 immediately after that prayer and tears were rolling down. And 0:05:15.730 --> 0:05:18.450 when I say we looked at each other, we looked 0:05:18.450 --> 0:05:22.690 at each other differently. Instantly. We didn't have that. I 0:05:22.690 --> 0:05:24.530 love to hate you and all that. It was just 0:05:24.529 --> 0:05:27.289 an instant experience with God. 0:05:27.850 --> 0:05:29.490 God does miracles, right? 0:05:29.730 --> 0:05:31.370 Yes, yes. 0:05:31.410 --> 0:05:35.330 Well, you know, I hope the listeners today are hearing that, 0:05:35.330 --> 0:05:38.690 particularly those that are going through real struggles, because I 0:05:38.730 --> 0:05:41.970 have seen you've seen through the years not only your 0:05:41.970 --> 0:05:45.770 own experience and my experience with my wife, but also 0:05:45.770 --> 0:05:49.450 scores and scores of other couples who really were just 0:05:49.450 --> 0:05:52.330 feeling like it's never going to work. We're we're too different. 0:05:52.330 --> 0:05:55.450 And we were just not getting along. But whenever we 0:05:55.450 --> 0:05:58.930 turn to God honestly, openly and asking God to do 0:05:58.970 --> 0:06:02.089 work in our hearts, he wants to. He loves us. 0:06:02.089 --> 0:06:05.690 He ordained marriage. He wants to save us, save marriages. 0:06:06.210 --> 0:06:09.170 So thanks for sharing your own struggles there. 0:06:09.690 --> 0:06:14.210 After that experience, we knew that we needed help to 0:06:14.250 --> 0:06:17.810 learn how to walk a different dance. And and so 0:06:17.930 --> 0:06:22.170 we really, truly believe in Christian counseling. And we also 0:06:22.170 --> 0:06:25.450 believe in going to the same counselor. Uh, I would 0:06:25.450 --> 0:06:28.130 go in on Mondays. He would go in on Wednesdays, 0:06:28.130 --> 0:06:31.970 and then we would do it together on Fridays. And again, remember, 0:06:31.970 --> 0:06:35.050 we had no money. So we went to a wonderful 0:06:35.050 --> 0:06:39.010 Christian place that based it on your income and worked 0:06:39.010 --> 0:06:43.370 with us until we did have the foundation and the 0:06:43.370 --> 0:06:47.970 counseling tools to make this marriage work in combination with 0:06:47.970 --> 0:06:49.290 partnering with God. 0:06:49.650 --> 0:06:52.760 Yeah, yeah, We always have a role to play in 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:57.440 the issue. Yes. Yeah. That's great. And Christian counseling can 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.680 obviously make a tremendous difference in that. Now, after this 0:07:01.680 --> 0:07:05.600 marriage turnaround, you raised your children in a Christian home 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:10.480 with biblical values. But as a parent, you discovered we 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:14.920 can't control our adult children's choices. Talk about that. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:19.800 Well, don't we love to believe we can, right? I mean, yes, 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.200 so we got kind of caught up in that initially, 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:28.480 but then we realized we had to separate ourselves from 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:32.760 their behavior. That's when the big moment of Aha came 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:36.240 to us, that when we began to separate our children's 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:41.640 choices and behaviors, we started realizing that there was a 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:46.320 spiritual element in this. It goes back to John 1010 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.360 where it says, the enemy comes to seek, kill and destroy. 0:07:49.750 --> 0:07:54.030 And we realized that our children were getting sucked up 0:07:54.030 --> 0:07:58.310 in this dark and evil, evil culture. And that was 0:07:58.310 --> 0:08:03.190 when we really realized it's beyond them just being rebellious 0:08:03.630 --> 0:08:06.150 or battling some negative emotions. 0:08:06.830 --> 0:08:08.950 So I think you said earlier that really all three 0:08:08.950 --> 0:08:12.110 of your children at one point were prodigals. Is that correct? 0:08:12.150 --> 0:08:16.030 That's correct. And they all did have very unique challenges. 0:08:16.030 --> 0:08:18.190 And if you don't mind, I'd love to share with 0:08:18.190 --> 0:08:22.550 you kind of in sequence how it happened. Uh, my 0:08:22.590 --> 0:08:25.950 eldest child took the longest, and we'll end with him. 0:08:25.950 --> 0:08:29.030 So my daughter Kaylee was my only girl, and she 0:08:29.030 --> 0:08:32.230 was born very early and and had health challenges a 0:08:32.230 --> 0:08:35.190 lot of her life. But about age 17 or 18, 0:08:35.190 --> 0:08:37.949 she started feeling like a lot of young women that 0:08:37.950 --> 0:08:41.910 she didn't fit in, that she wasn't as pretty as 0:08:41.910 --> 0:08:46.150 the others. And, um, she was at a Bible study 0:08:46.150 --> 0:08:49.510 one night and they left, and she was with a friend, 0:08:49.510 --> 0:08:52.910 and she began to confess to this friend that she 0:08:52.910 --> 0:08:55.950 was hearing voices in her head that life would be 0:08:55.950 --> 0:09:00.510 better without her in it, and she was sobbing. And 0:09:00.510 --> 0:09:04.110 this friend, praise the Lord, grabbed her hands and they 0:09:04.110 --> 0:09:07.150 began to pray, and Kaylee said that there was a 0:09:07.150 --> 0:09:10.670 warmth from her head to her toes, and she knew 0:09:10.710 --> 0:09:13.910 it was God, because the tears dried up and she 0:09:13.910 --> 0:09:18.390 began to feel such a release from these just terrible 0:09:18.390 --> 0:09:22.829 voices in her head. And that began her turnaround. And 0:09:23.070 --> 0:09:25.950 now she helps so many others. You know, we've got 0:09:25.950 --> 0:09:29.910 suicide rates and depression rates and anxiety rates among among 0:09:29.910 --> 0:09:32.829 our young children, and she's been able to really help 0:09:32.830 --> 0:09:37.470 those with that. And then there's Lawson. And Lawson, uh, 0:09:37.510 --> 0:09:41.550 is a wonderful, sweet man. And he went through a 0:09:41.550 --> 0:09:44.110 very dark time. He kind of got into these kind 0:09:44.110 --> 0:09:48.180 of walkthrough concerts, these concerts that you take a lot 0:09:48.220 --> 0:09:51.219 of drugs and you literally are kind of like a zombie. 0:09:51.700 --> 0:09:55.860 He was into drugs and alcohol and it was really 0:09:55.860 --> 0:09:59.740 a tough, rough time. Uh, what happened with him was 0:10:00.100 --> 0:10:04.860 a very unique battle. Uh, the enemy we feel like 0:10:05.380 --> 0:10:07.700 did a full on assault for Lawson. There was a 0:10:07.700 --> 0:10:12.140 24 hour period that Lawson could have died. And when 0:10:12.140 --> 0:10:15.980 I mean that, I mean physically died. He fell downstairs. 0:10:15.980 --> 0:10:19.660 He aspirated. He a lot of things. He he he 0:10:19.700 --> 0:10:22.020 went to a neighbor's house, and he hit Lawson in 0:10:22.020 --> 0:10:24.460 the face where he had a a cut that required 0:10:24.460 --> 0:10:31.380 plastic surgery. What happened was very incredible. Steve, my husband 0:10:31.980 --> 0:10:34.460 went down to check on him. I had an option 0:10:34.500 --> 0:10:36.860 for Steve to go check on him, and Steve stayed 0:10:36.860 --> 0:10:39.860 with him for a lot of this battle. And Lawson 0:10:39.860 --> 0:10:42.980 woke up, y'all. He was 24, 25 years old in 0:10:42.980 --> 0:10:47.579 his father's arms. And he said, I am so sorry. 0:10:47.900 --> 0:10:50.660 I will never, ever have another day that I don't 0:10:50.660 --> 0:10:55.579 remember every second. And so that touch of God saving 0:10:55.580 --> 0:10:59.500 him from that demonic attack, you know, changed him forever. 0:10:59.500 --> 0:11:03.940 And now he helps young men that battle a lot 0:11:03.940 --> 0:11:09.660 of these pressures. And then Steven is my wonderful eldest child. 0:11:09.980 --> 0:11:14.380 He saw something about age 12 at a neighbor's house. 0:11:14.380 --> 0:11:17.540 It was porn. And he believes, as he looks back, 0:11:17.540 --> 0:11:21.500 that that was the gate that the enemy used to 0:11:22.220 --> 0:11:26.980 really the next 15 years was drugs, alcohol, womanizing. And 0:11:26.980 --> 0:11:31.700 his story is most powerful to me because 15 years 0:11:31.700 --> 0:11:35.819 he made self-destructive choices. He he lived in the pit 0:11:35.980 --> 0:11:39.180 and he was at a party, y'all high on cocaine 0:11:39.179 --> 0:11:42.700 and was calling an Uber, and the Uber driver picked 0:11:42.700 --> 0:11:44.970 him up. And it happened to be a pastor from 0:11:44.970 --> 0:11:47.890 another country trying to raise money for his church. And 0:11:47.890 --> 0:11:50.449 he said, I feel like I need to pray for you, Stephen. 0:11:50.690 --> 0:11:53.210 And Stephen said, mom, I knew I was high. But 0:11:53.210 --> 0:11:56.850 when he started praying, the presence of God came in 0:11:56.850 --> 0:11:59.969 so heavy in this Uber car that it pressed me 0:11:59.970 --> 0:12:03.570 to the floorboard, and I began to cry and beg 0:12:03.570 --> 0:12:07.130 him to quit praying. And he said, I knew, mom. 0:12:07.130 --> 0:12:09.730 I knew it was the presence of God coming in 0:12:09.730 --> 0:12:12.850 to rescue me. And again, this was a touch of 0:12:12.850 --> 0:12:16.370 God that no man can dispute. And that was the 0:12:16.370 --> 0:12:21.530 beginning of Stephen's journey of healing and getting well again. 0:12:23.090 --> 0:12:27.569 You shared with us, uh, the three children and something 0:12:27.570 --> 0:12:30.530 of the nature of what they went through and how 0:12:30.570 --> 0:12:33.610 the satanic attacks upon their lives, trying to pull them 0:12:33.610 --> 0:12:38.650 into lifestyles that were obviously not Christian. So, uh, as 0:12:38.650 --> 0:12:42.170 they went through all of this, uh, through these various years, 0:12:42.450 --> 0:12:45.290 was there a point in your own life dealing with 0:12:45.290 --> 0:12:48.929 all this that you experienced? You know, deep pain or 0:12:48.929 --> 0:12:52.210 struggle or thoughts? What what was going on in your 0:12:52.210 --> 0:12:55.010 heart and mind while while they were involved in this 0:12:55.010 --> 0:12:56.050 kind of lifestyle? 0:12:56.850 --> 0:12:59.510 Well, I can tell you my heart was broken a 0:12:59.510 --> 0:13:02.410 million times. You know, I would think that they would 0:13:02.410 --> 0:13:05.890 make a change and they didn't. And, uh, I was 0:13:05.890 --> 0:13:10.410 very grateful. I'm so glad we started with the marriage resurrection. 0:13:10.410 --> 0:13:15.610 Because once you've tasted and seen that power in your life, 0:13:15.770 --> 0:13:18.770 you can believe it for others. And so that was 0:13:18.770 --> 0:13:22.170 the anchor for Steve and I, as we continue to 0:13:22.170 --> 0:13:27.370 watch our children under this influence of the dark world, 0:13:27.370 --> 0:13:31.770 that our children with technology and phones and all the 0:13:31.770 --> 0:13:35.449 things that they that they are exposed to, we began 0:13:35.450 --> 0:13:38.210 to make a a plan that we were going to 0:13:38.250 --> 0:13:42.040 stand united. You know how kids love to, her, you know. Say, 0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:46.920 mom says. And dad says so in the lowest point 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.920 when we were just going, are our kids ever going 0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:54.600 to turn around? We realized that and and we addressed it. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.000 And then we decided that, you know, it says in 0:13:57.000 --> 0:14:00.559 the scripture, A house divided will certainly fail. And and 0:14:00.559 --> 0:14:03.640 that's when we really decided we were going to stand together, 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:06.640 and we were going to stand in the gap and 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.040 wait for God to make a turnaround for us. 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:14.080 Yeah. Now, lots of times, husbands and wives, uh, have 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:18.240 different responses in how to how they should or ought 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:21.720 to respond. Did you and your husband have some differences 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:22.360 in that? 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.160 Absolutely. And it doesn't take long if you're ever around 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:30.160 Steve and I, he's the logic, the reason. And I'm 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:35.160 the energetic, uh, you know, passionate outcry. Uh, I can 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:40.310 remember specifically one night, uh, both both children gotten a 0:14:40.350 --> 0:14:44.710 lot of trouble. And I can remember we had at 0:14:44.750 --> 0:14:47.030 that time a three story house, and I would I 0:14:47.070 --> 0:14:52.950 was crawling up and down the stairs, literally wailing. And 0:14:52.990 --> 0:14:54.990 Steve came up to me and he said, is this 0:14:54.990 --> 0:14:57.430 a put on? Are you? And I go, no, Steve, 0:14:57.430 --> 0:15:01.350 I want these kids to see what a mama's broken 0:15:01.350 --> 0:15:07.870 heart looks like. Yes, we reacted very differently, but effectively, 0:15:07.910 --> 0:15:11.390 you know, they they knew that dad would always be 0:15:11.390 --> 0:15:15.670 the one that logically, scientifically tried to do it. And 0:15:15.670 --> 0:15:18.550 then they also knew that I was passionate about helping 0:15:18.550 --> 0:15:20.150 them get out of these pits. 0:15:20.470 --> 0:15:24.510 Yeah, yeah. So in your book, you talk about warfare 0:15:24.550 --> 0:15:30.270 strategy for parents. Explain what that means and how that 0:15:30.310 --> 0:15:32.390 worked out in your own situation. 0:15:33.110 --> 0:15:37.230 Well, again, that was the big aha moment when we 0:15:37.230 --> 0:15:41.150 realized we were battling much more than a kid slamming 0:15:41.150 --> 0:15:44.630 the door, or even a kid flipping another car under 0:15:44.630 --> 0:15:49.510 alcohol influence. We realized there was a dark army to seek, 0:15:49.510 --> 0:15:53.070 kill and destroy these children, and we knew that Jesus 0:15:53.070 --> 0:15:57.390 had given us the victory, but we had to really 0:15:57.630 --> 0:16:02.150 armor up. We became warrior parents, and we began to 0:16:02.830 --> 0:16:07.030 dig deeper and find ways in the spirit that we 0:16:07.030 --> 0:16:13.510 could help our children find protection and provision until they 0:16:13.510 --> 0:16:15.030 turn their lives around. 0:16:16.150 --> 0:16:19.710 And the whole thing of spiritual battle. A lot of 0:16:19.710 --> 0:16:24.470 parents in today's culture, that's a strange thing for them, 0:16:24.670 --> 0:16:28.110 the spiritual dimension to this, you know, they they blame drugs, 0:16:28.110 --> 0:16:30.350 they blame a lot of other things in culture that 0:16:30.350 --> 0:16:34.750 led their children away. But as Christians, we know we 0:16:34.750 --> 0:16:36.710 are in a spiritual battle, right? 0:16:37.260 --> 0:16:41.020 Absolutely. And I think we got to the point that 0:16:41.020 --> 0:16:44.940 we had nothing to lose, right? I mean, once we 0:16:44.940 --> 0:16:47.540 realized that we're in a spiritual battle, then we kind 0:16:47.580 --> 0:16:51.180 of knew, man, we're going full in. We're going to 0:16:51.220 --> 0:16:53.980 plead the blood of Jesus over these kids. We're going 0:16:54.020 --> 0:16:57.820 to dig deeper in a personal way ourselves so that 0:16:57.820 --> 0:17:01.300 we can stand strong in the battle. It was powerful 0:17:01.340 --> 0:17:05.980 because we also realized our authority in this and our 0:17:05.980 --> 0:17:10.939 identity because, again, you know, 15 years is a long 0:17:10.940 --> 0:17:14.900 time to watch a kid make choice after choice that 0:17:14.900 --> 0:17:20.060 was self-destructive or that was destroying his destiny. You have 0:17:20.060 --> 0:17:24.020 to realize this is a spiritual battle. And not only 0:17:24.020 --> 0:17:26.140 do we need to stand in the gap for our 0:17:26.140 --> 0:17:28.780 children and pray in a way we never have in 0:17:28.780 --> 0:17:31.859 the power of the blood of Jesus, but we also 0:17:31.859 --> 0:17:34.460 got to dig deep with God and partner with him 0:17:34.580 --> 0:17:36.859 so he can sustain us through it. 0:17:37.100 --> 0:17:42.980 Yeah. So what's the difference between warfare strategy and and 0:17:43.260 --> 0:17:47.900 the traditional parenting models or methods that that we're familiar with? 0:17:49.220 --> 0:17:52.020 Well, I think that's what makes both of these books unique, 0:17:52.020 --> 0:17:56.220 because I absolutely identify that we've got to do some 0:17:56.220 --> 0:17:58.980 things in the natural. Right. I mean, we've got to 0:17:59.020 --> 0:18:02.940 emulate the behaviors that we want our children to do. 0:18:03.180 --> 0:18:06.540 I mean, we've got to live the life, too. We 0:18:06.540 --> 0:18:10.820 also have got to have boundaries. You know, we can't 0:18:10.820 --> 0:18:14.580 just sit there and allow them to live in chaos 0:18:14.820 --> 0:18:18.620 and rebellion. So I do believe with everything in me, 0:18:18.619 --> 0:18:21.140 this is if I y'all could see my hands. I've 0:18:21.140 --> 0:18:24.140 got one half of a circle in the physical and 0:18:24.140 --> 0:18:26.860 then the other half in the spiritual. But the spiritual 0:18:26.859 --> 0:18:32.020 will always, always override because it does take the power 0:18:32.020 --> 0:18:36.090 of God. It does take the power of God to 0:18:36.130 --> 0:18:40.770 bring prodigals back around. Only God can touch a heart 0:18:40.770 --> 0:18:44.690 and turn it around. And so that is the difference. 0:18:44.890 --> 0:18:48.970 We've got to rely on the spiritual element much more, 0:18:49.170 --> 0:18:53.050 and be aware of the spiritual element than anything else. 0:18:54.010 --> 0:18:57.970 And allowing God as you see it, to build into 0:18:58.010 --> 0:19:02.690 us the kind of character and lifestyle that we would 0:19:02.690 --> 0:19:04.770 like to see in our children. You know, one of 0:19:04.770 --> 0:19:07.290 the questions I ask myself along the way, when we 0:19:07.330 --> 0:19:11.730 were raising our two children about different issues, I asked myself, 0:19:12.090 --> 0:19:15.050 what if my children turn out to be like me? 0:19:15.890 --> 0:19:17.930 What if they drive a car the way I drive 0:19:17.970 --> 0:19:20.530 a car? What if they treat their spouse the way 0:19:20.530 --> 0:19:23.730 I treat mine? What if they. And right on down 0:19:23.730 --> 0:19:27.330 the line. And I made some really significant changes through 0:19:27.330 --> 0:19:31.649 the years by simply asking that question. Uh, because, you know, 0:19:31.690 --> 0:19:34.800 we we are called upon to model what we say 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.560 we believe. You know the lifestyle we believe God wants 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.240 us to have. So I think that whole thing of 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.720 you use the word emulate for them what we would 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.720 like to see happening in their lives. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.560 I used to have a sign on my refrigerator that said, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.200 you can do what you see me do, and you 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:55.560 can say what you see me and hear me say. 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.440 And boy, was that a litmus test for me as 0:19:58.440 --> 0:19:59.720 a mama. Yes. 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.560 Yep yep yep. Absolutely. So I think I like the 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.200 emphasis you make, you know? Yes, God wants to help us. 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.200 God can do things we can't do. But God also 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.920 expects to work in us and through us as parents. 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.680 So there are young prodigals. There are adult prodigals. Is 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.600 there a common theme to those journeys? 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:27.399 I think the common theme would be the culture, the media, 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.320 the influences like we've never seen before. I say all 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:35.480 the time we're a click away. Our children, whether they're 0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:39.760 15 or 50 or a click away from making that 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:45.560 self-destructive choice or that, you know, addiction, reigniting that, or 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.440 looking at things we shouldn't or receiving things. So I 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:54.320 would say the common theme to both is just the opportunity, 0:20:54.720 --> 0:21:01.200 the absolute ease to get into evil with without any effort. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.920 Yeah, I think all parents would agree with what you've 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:09.320 just said. It's a totally different world from a past generation, 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:13.040 you know, in raising children. So talk talk to the 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:16.120 listener who has a young prodigal. They're still living in 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:19.080 the home. They're still young. They're not out of high 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:22.760 school yet. What's the first step that they they might 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.560 take in a process of being taken a warfare strategy? 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.160 Yes. And again, I think the first thing is just 0:21:29.160 --> 0:21:32.669 to To recognize that you indeed are in a spiritual 0:21:32.710 --> 0:21:37.350 battle and spiritual warfare of your child. Secondly, I would 0:21:37.350 --> 0:21:40.790 ask a parent, are you praying for your child? Because 0:21:40.790 --> 0:21:43.429 if you're not praying for your child, then who is? 0:21:43.710 --> 0:21:46.310 So I really not say that out of condemnation. I 0:21:46.350 --> 0:21:49.270 say it out of conviction. And then, of course, you know, 0:21:49.270 --> 0:21:52.750 I believe with everything in me, when I started integrating 0:21:52.750 --> 0:21:55.710 the power of the blood of Christ in my prayers, 0:21:56.190 --> 0:21:59.149 that it just took it to a new level. And 0:21:59.150 --> 0:22:02.590 another thing I would say with a young prodigal, where 0:22:02.590 --> 0:22:06.310 I think I failed the most was Steve, and my 0:22:06.310 --> 0:22:10.350 eldest was the first real prodigal. And I think as 0:22:10.350 --> 0:22:13.630 a Christian mom, I thought I was protecting him from 0:22:13.630 --> 0:22:17.390 the world by not really talking about all of the 0:22:17.390 --> 0:22:21.189 things they could get into. So if you haven't started 0:22:21.190 --> 0:22:24.750 those conversations, it's never too late. You know, you can 0:22:24.790 --> 0:22:27.870 sit down with your 12, 14, 15 year old and say, listen, 0:22:28.030 --> 0:22:31.990 I don't think we've ever talked about, man. The pressures 0:22:31.990 --> 0:22:37.230 you're under and just start a conversation. You will immediately 0:22:37.270 --> 0:22:40.629 see a shift in that prodigal, because they will see 0:22:40.630 --> 0:22:43.910 that you really do get where they are. 0:22:45.310 --> 0:22:50.470 Yeah. I think conversation is something that sometimes parents don't 0:22:50.470 --> 0:22:55.350 know how to initiate or struggle with, how to bring 0:22:55.350 --> 0:22:57.710 up the topic, or where to bring up the topic, 0:22:58.310 --> 0:23:03.150 and not waiting until they, the child, is displaying, you know, 0:23:03.270 --> 0:23:07.230 wrong behavior. Well, I remember when my son was a teenager, 0:23:07.230 --> 0:23:10.790 a young teenager. I went down once a month on 0:23:10.790 --> 0:23:14.430 Saturday night to the juvenile detention center and played ping 0:23:14.430 --> 0:23:16.550 pong with the young man in there and then, you know, 0:23:16.590 --> 0:23:19.669 had conversations with him. I started taking him with me. 0:23:20.070 --> 0:23:22.270 You know, he wasn't drinking or anything. I just took 0:23:22.270 --> 0:23:25.590 him with me. And on the way home after we would, 0:23:25.630 --> 0:23:28.220 I'd say, you know, Derrick, think about it that kids 0:23:28.220 --> 0:23:32.900 your age and under alcohol, he did something that was 0:23:32.900 --> 0:23:36.060 wrong has got him in this situation. Yeah, just just 0:23:36.100 --> 0:23:40.700 planting seeds like that. Different conversations. And I think sometimes 0:23:40.700 --> 0:23:45.020 it takes a book or some ideas for parents to 0:23:45.580 --> 0:23:52.420 realize or to instigate, uh, meaningful conversation, you know, with 0:23:52.420 --> 0:23:54.300 their children and listening to the children as a part 0:23:54.300 --> 0:23:56.220 of talking. Right? I mean, it's a part of a conversation. 0:23:56.220 --> 0:23:59.060 It's not just you talking to them. It's letting them 0:23:59.100 --> 0:24:00.260 ask you questions. 0:24:00.660 --> 0:24:03.060 Yes. That is so powerful and true. 0:24:07.500 --> 0:24:11.460 This is the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast. 0:24:11.500 --> 0:24:14.020 He's the author of the New York Times bestseller, The 0:24:14.020 --> 0:24:17.500 Five Love Languages. You can take an easy assessment of 0:24:17.500 --> 0:24:21.580 your love language and see our featured resources today at 0:24:21.580 --> 0:24:27.060 Five Love Languages. Com Lane Lawson Craft has written Warfare 0:24:27.100 --> 0:24:30.540 Parenting A Daily Battle Plan to Fight for Your Child 0:24:30.540 --> 0:24:34.620 and the parents Battle plan Warfare Strategies to Win back 0:24:34.660 --> 0:24:37.580 Your prodigal. Just go to five Love languages. 0:24:40.619 --> 0:24:43.180 Lane. Just before the break, you were talking about having 0:24:43.180 --> 0:24:46.420 a conversation. I think there's a lot of Christian parents 0:24:46.460 --> 0:24:50.220 listening who are afraid to have the conversation because they 0:24:50.220 --> 0:24:52.619 want to know what's going on in their son or 0:24:52.619 --> 0:24:55.139 daughter's life, and yet at the same time, they don't 0:24:55.140 --> 0:24:58.260 want to know. They want to believe that everything is okay. 0:24:58.900 --> 0:25:01.140 They want to believe, you know, God's in control here. 0:25:01.140 --> 0:25:03.980 He's going to have his way and the child's life. 0:25:04.180 --> 0:25:07.500 And so it's hard. It's difficult when you hear some 0:25:07.500 --> 0:25:10.060 of the things, the stresses that they're under and the 0:25:10.060 --> 0:25:13.500 things that they're exposed to. It's really difficult to hear 0:25:13.500 --> 0:25:17.179 that talk to that parent who who feels that way. 0:25:17.900 --> 0:25:22.340 Yes. I call that digging our heads in the sand. 0:25:22.780 --> 0:25:29.210 I absolutely challenged parents today to be courageous and it 0:25:29.210 --> 0:25:33.050 is hard. I'll never forget having to talk the words 0:25:33.050 --> 0:25:36.410 that I never dreamed I'd have to say about pictures 0:25:36.410 --> 0:25:40.890 coming into their phone, or them sending out pictures. These 0:25:40.890 --> 0:25:46.250 are hard and tough conversations. But again, our culture, our media, 0:25:46.290 --> 0:25:51.730 our entertainment, everything else is impacting and influencing their choices. 0:25:52.170 --> 0:25:55.570 So we as parents, if we don't stand in there 0:25:55.770 --> 0:26:00.770 and open these hard conversations, then we're not equipping them 0:26:01.130 --> 0:26:05.570 for you know, how to deal with it. Sadly, you 0:26:05.570 --> 0:26:08.890 have to start so much younger with these conversations. I 0:26:08.890 --> 0:26:12.250 think the average age for a child to see porn 0:26:12.250 --> 0:26:15.770 is now 6 or 7 years old. So we have 0:26:15.770 --> 0:26:19.570 got to start talking to our children as Christian parents 0:26:19.570 --> 0:26:24.080 because we are stewarding God's child, and we have got 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:28.240 to equip them for the battle themselves. So if we 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:32.159 don't address it, if we don't take that courage and 0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:34.920 sit down with them and start hearing the things that 0:26:34.920 --> 0:26:39.200 maybe you don't want to hear, but guiding them back, 0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:42.440 that's the key. We want to be the ones that 0:26:42.440 --> 0:26:46.040 guide them back with the right knowledge, you know, with 0:26:46.040 --> 0:26:48.240 the right conversations. 0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:54.360 Yeah. My strong conviction is if parents do not open 0:26:54.359 --> 0:27:00.320 conversations with their children about these issues early on, they're 0:27:00.320 --> 0:27:02.520 not going to come to you and bring up the 0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:07.240 topic because in their minds, well, I don't know. You know, 0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:10.440 they're wrestling with the whole thing themselves, but they're not 0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:13.320 going to initiate the conversation. But if you bring it up, 0:27:13.920 --> 0:27:17.280 then they will realize, oh, it's okay to talk about this. 0:27:17.280 --> 0:27:19.680 And so they will come to you when they're struggling 0:27:19.920 --> 0:27:22.520 two weeks or two months or two years down the road. 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:26.640 So yeah, conversations are so important. Now you emphasize the 0:27:26.640 --> 0:27:32.000 importance of prayer and spiritual armor during the fight for 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:38.160 your child. So how does your warfare parenting movement, as 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:43.240 it were, contribute to the larger spiritual awakening in families? 0:27:44.160 --> 0:27:47.360 Well, I think we've all seen that the family is 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:51.119 under attack. We've got high divorce rates. I think the 0:27:51.119 --> 0:27:56.960 latest Barna research showed that Christian marriages don't survive any 0:27:56.960 --> 0:28:01.320 more than a non-Christian marriage. Then we also have, I believe, 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:05.480 a statistic that's unbelievable, but I think it's close to 40% 0:28:05.640 --> 0:28:08.840 of children being born today are being born without a 0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:12.160 mom and dad. Uh, and most of these don't even 0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:16.919 get married. So the enemy is already trying to destroy 0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:23.709 God's design for family. and his second on salt attack 0:28:23.869 --> 0:28:26.790 are these children. And what I also want to share 0:28:26.790 --> 0:28:33.949 today is these assaults, I believe are destiny changers. Meaning, 0:28:34.109 --> 0:28:36.750 you know, it says that God has a plan, a 0:28:36.750 --> 0:28:39.710 a wonderful plan for all of us. And Jesus said 0:28:39.710 --> 0:28:42.710 he died to give us an abundant life. Well, I 0:28:42.710 --> 0:28:45.390 believe with everything in me, the enemy is out to 0:28:45.390 --> 0:28:49.990 get these kids early, get them into depression where maybe 0:28:50.270 --> 0:28:54.550 they make wrong choices, maybe get them addicted to something that, 0:28:54.910 --> 0:28:58.630 you know, spirals them down. I, I believe with everything 0:28:58.630 --> 0:29:04.030 in me that parents today we must get our spiritual 0:29:04.030 --> 0:29:08.910 armor together and we must learn to partner with God. First. 0:29:09.870 --> 0:29:14.230 Reflect back on what would it look like in a 0:29:14.230 --> 0:29:18.590 Christian home when the parents are taking the spiritual part 0:29:18.590 --> 0:29:23.790 of life seriously in terms of daily routines in the home. 0:29:24.150 --> 0:29:27.990 What does it look like to be bringing the spiritual 0:29:27.990 --> 0:29:31.630 part into the daily life of our children when they're younger? 0:29:32.510 --> 0:29:34.910 Yes. I think if I had to do it all 0:29:34.910 --> 0:29:38.470 over again, I would have probably started reading the Word 0:29:38.470 --> 0:29:42.950 of God that I have now, in my later years, 0:29:42.990 --> 0:29:46.830 learned to love each word. I would have started letting 0:29:46.830 --> 0:29:50.910 them learn to love the word, that we remove this 0:29:50.910 --> 0:29:53.950 religious part of it that you have to do, and 0:29:53.950 --> 0:29:57.470 you have to read. It really should become a lifestyle. 0:29:58.110 --> 0:30:01.470 If you're a parent today and you've got children, I 0:30:01.470 --> 0:30:03.710 would think that the most important thing is that they 0:30:03.710 --> 0:30:07.110 see you reading maybe your little devotion every morning with 0:30:07.110 --> 0:30:11.150 your coffee. Maybe they see you take food to someone 0:30:11.150 --> 0:30:16.750 that's sick. Start these small deposits in your own lifestyle 0:30:17.110 --> 0:30:20.980 so that your children start to recognize what kindness is. 0:30:21.380 --> 0:30:26.180 You know what empathy is. All of those things continue 0:30:26.180 --> 0:30:31.620 to build again. I really believe that learning that the 0:30:31.620 --> 0:30:36.700 Word of God is like an instruction book. It's not 0:30:36.700 --> 0:30:40.540 rules for you to follow and maybe fall short of. 0:30:41.020 --> 0:30:43.380 It's an instruction book that God loved you so much. 0:30:43.380 --> 0:30:46.420 He said, this is the way to live so that 0:30:46.420 --> 0:30:49.820 you can live in the best purposes that I have 0:30:49.820 --> 0:30:50.500 for you. 0:30:51.100 --> 0:30:55.540 Yeah. What is the role of the church in partnering 0:30:55.540 --> 0:30:58.260 with parents in the raising of children? 0:30:59.260 --> 0:31:03.260 Well, it's significant and I believe that we are missing 0:31:03.260 --> 0:31:08.020 the mark. I don't see enough family ministries going, you know, 0:31:08.060 --> 0:31:13.500 2020 really changed the dynamics of everything. We're all having 0:31:13.540 --> 0:31:18.459 to use new models. I believe that the church must 0:31:18.460 --> 0:31:22.100 step up. We must help these single mothers. We with 0:31:22.100 --> 0:31:26.740 these kids, we must empower and equip parents on ways 0:31:26.740 --> 0:31:30.700 to tackle what our kids are hearing and seeing and 0:31:30.700 --> 0:31:35.740 being exposed to. I think the church plays a vital part, 0:31:35.940 --> 0:31:39.620 and my hope and dream is that one day, every 0:31:39.620 --> 0:31:42.820 church in America will have a warfare parenting small group. 0:31:43.140 --> 0:31:47.500 Use these books as curriculums to bring parents that love 0:31:47.540 --> 0:31:50.980 the Lord, but their kids are in a battle and 0:31:50.980 --> 0:31:53.219 they can come in and pray together and build a 0:31:53.220 --> 0:31:57.700 community of faith and learn, you know, different ways to 0:31:58.020 --> 0:32:01.940 tackle these things that they are challenged with today. 0:32:02.740 --> 0:32:05.940 You know, I think, of course, churches are different, individual 0:32:05.940 --> 0:32:11.620 churches are different. But the churches that have programs geared 0:32:11.620 --> 0:32:16.090 to children of all ages where the church is complimenting. 0:32:16.130 --> 0:32:19.050 You know what they're getting in the home to me 0:32:19.210 --> 0:32:22.370 is a is a powerful ministry of the church. We 0:32:22.370 --> 0:32:25.010 have folks who are in churches where you don't have 0:32:25.010 --> 0:32:29.290 a children's ministry. You don't have a youth ministry. Can 0:32:29.290 --> 0:32:33.290 I challenge you to do what you can to stimulate 0:32:33.290 --> 0:32:36.890 that and get that started in your church? Because the 0:32:37.130 --> 0:32:41.130 parents are the key influencers. But those kind of programs 0:32:41.130 --> 0:32:45.370 in the churches can also have a tremendous positive impact 0:32:45.770 --> 0:32:46.770 on our children. 0:32:47.410 --> 0:32:50.570 Yes, they can. And and, you know, I think probably 0:32:50.570 --> 0:32:54.570 the greatest challenge on a personal level when I had 0:32:54.570 --> 0:32:58.690 these prodigals was I felt so isolated at the time. 0:32:58.690 --> 0:33:02.730 I published a national magazine in every bookstore in America 0:33:02.730 --> 0:33:07.530 and Canada with covers like Dolly Parton and, uh, many 0:33:07.530 --> 0:33:12.050 times and the Duck Dynasty women, women of significance in 0:33:12.050 --> 0:33:16.120 our culture, but had faith as a root that is 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.200 so important to create a place where a Christian parent 0:33:19.200 --> 0:33:22.440 doesn't feel like they're walking this journey alone. 0:33:22.800 --> 0:33:28.520 Yeah, well, let's say that a parent has a prodigal child, 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:31.920 and they are involved in any number of things that 0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:36.239 are non-biblical. How can the parent of that adult I'm 0:33:36.240 --> 0:33:39.880 thinking of adult children now. How can that parent stay 0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:47.360 connected with them, um, without condoning their their sinful behavior? 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:52.560 Well, I say that's probably one of the toughest parts, really, 0:33:52.560 --> 0:33:56.640 because it is an adult child. And we say to ourselves, 0:33:56.640 --> 0:34:01.680 they should know better, right? So we sometimes in human 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:05.040 nature just want to, like I said, cut them off 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:09.399 until they turn around. But what I have found is 0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:14.360 that unconditional love is really the healing balm for many families. 0:34:14.360 --> 0:34:17.200 And what I mean by that. Yes, you don't have 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:21.719 to love their choices or their lifestyles, but I do think. 0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:26.800 Reaching out to them out of like from my perspective, 0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:30.319 my heart, my. The mother's heart, you know, reach out 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:33.719 to them, maybe by a letter and just say, I 0:34:33.719 --> 0:34:35.560 don't know if I ever really told you about how 0:34:35.560 --> 0:34:39.480 wonderful it was the day we brought you home. Make 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:44.359 good deposits, showing them the love that you truly have 0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:50.080 for them. And again, I love to tell parents the 0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:55.320 words I'm sorry can change everything. You know, I'm sorry 0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:58.480 that we're here. You're not saying you're sorry for maybe how, 0:34:58.680 --> 0:35:01.320 you know, you had to put boundaries up. You're saying 0:35:01.320 --> 0:35:05.279 I'm sorry that we've ended up here. Can we try 0:35:05.320 --> 0:35:11.270 to meet for coffee? Can we discuss how wonderful all 0:35:11.310 --> 0:35:14.589 of those past times were and find a way to 0:35:14.630 --> 0:35:15.549 start over. 0:35:16.550 --> 0:35:18.950 What is the role of boundaries and what? And can 0:35:18.950 --> 0:35:21.270 you give us some examples of the kind of boundaries 0:35:21.270 --> 0:35:24.989 that we might, might establish for, for their benefit and 0:35:24.989 --> 0:35:25.870 our benefit? 0:35:26.670 --> 0:35:29.590 Yes. I think it was probably the toughest thing for me, 0:35:29.590 --> 0:35:35.149 because it took me many years to realize that I 0:35:35.150 --> 0:35:39.430 was playing a part of their wrong choices, meaning I 0:35:40.070 --> 0:35:43.150 was continuing to give them, you know, a weekly allowance. 0:35:43.150 --> 0:35:47.150 I was replacing the car that they flipped. I had 0:35:47.150 --> 0:35:51.190 to realize, do I want to be a part of 0:35:51.230 --> 0:35:55.190 their self-destructive, or do I want to make it consequential? 0:35:55.469 --> 0:35:59.590 None of us. You make changes until we feel a 0:35:59.590 --> 0:36:03.630 little pain. And so tough love. Yes, I had to 0:36:03.670 --> 0:36:06.710 show tough love. I had to cut them off financially. 0:36:06.870 --> 0:36:10.710 I had to alienate myself at some points, just to 0:36:10.750 --> 0:36:14.069 show them that I could not accept the choices they 0:36:14.070 --> 0:36:17.430 were making. I'm not going to be mamby pamby about it. 0:36:17.430 --> 0:36:19.590 It's it's one of the hardest things as a parent 0:36:19.590 --> 0:36:23.390 to do. But again, I like to say, I don't 0:36:23.390 --> 0:36:26.029 want you to have regrets. I think if I had 0:36:26.030 --> 0:36:30.390 not done the tough love and continued to supply the 0:36:30.390 --> 0:36:34.190 necessities to to make these choices in their lives that 0:36:34.190 --> 0:36:36.670 were not the best for them, then I would have 0:36:36.670 --> 0:36:38.070 had a lot of regrets. 0:36:39.350 --> 0:36:43.989 The whole thing of consequences for wrong behavior. Even when 0:36:44.030 --> 0:36:46.830 God forgives us, we still suffer the consequences of what 0:36:46.830 --> 0:36:49.629 we did if it was wrong. I think a lot 0:36:49.670 --> 0:36:53.589 of times Christians have the idea that, you know, God 0:36:53.590 --> 0:36:58.430 forgives and everything is perfect. Uh, but but that's not true. 0:36:58.469 --> 0:37:01.750 You just you mentioned, for example, uh, wrecking a car 0:37:01.750 --> 0:37:05.430 and under the influence of alcohol. Uh, God can forgive 0:37:05.430 --> 0:37:09.780 us for what we did wrong, but the car's still wrecked, 0:37:09.820 --> 0:37:14.020 you know. And so how do we, uh, do what 0:37:14.060 --> 0:37:18.380 God does? Follow his example and let our children suffer 0:37:18.380 --> 0:37:24.500 the consequences of their behavior. Any particular illustration come to 0:37:24.500 --> 0:37:28.020 your mind of that with one of your children? Of 0:37:28.060 --> 0:37:31.260 letting them suffer the consequences of their behavior? 0:37:32.180 --> 0:37:36.140 Yes. And and again, it's painful. Right? But it is 0:37:36.140 --> 0:37:39.980 one of the best ways for them to, I like 0:37:39.980 --> 0:37:42.580 to say, stew in it a minute, you know, just 0:37:42.620 --> 0:37:48.299 sit there and realize not only how they've hurt themselves, 0:37:48.460 --> 0:37:53.779 but the people that love them. Yeah. So yes, it's tough. 0:37:54.620 --> 0:37:57.100 What was one of the first signs that you saw 0:37:57.260 --> 0:38:00.900 in one of your prodigals? Uh, making a turn away 0:38:00.900 --> 0:38:02.820 from a destructive lifestyle? 0:38:03.780 --> 0:38:06.820 I think I would like to use Steven Stephen because 0:38:07.420 --> 0:38:12.700 it was such a long journey. And when he was 0:38:12.700 --> 0:38:16.900 touched by God that that night in the Uber, he 0:38:17.620 --> 0:38:22.500 realized the power of God. God became very personal to him. 0:38:22.780 --> 0:38:25.460 It wasn't just this thing he read in the Bible 0:38:25.460 --> 0:38:29.580 or went to church and worshiped it. It became a 0:38:29.580 --> 0:38:34.860 very personal relationship with him. And I started seeing small 0:38:34.860 --> 0:38:40.380 steps of just repentance. Um, I can't tell you how 0:38:40.380 --> 0:38:42.859 many times he said, you know, in the beginning. Mom, 0:38:42.860 --> 0:38:45.859 I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. All the pain I've 0:38:45.860 --> 0:38:50.740 caused you and daddy and and truly staying in that journey. 0:38:50.780 --> 0:38:53.060 You know, we'd heard some of that in the past, 0:38:53.060 --> 0:38:57.500 but this time he really marked it, and it was significant. 0:38:58.739 --> 0:39:02.580 Earlier, when you're talking about prayer, you talked about the 0:39:02.580 --> 0:39:07.969 whole the power of of claiming victory or declaring victory, 0:39:08.530 --> 0:39:11.570 even in the midst of spiritual struggles that are still 0:39:11.610 --> 0:39:14.170 going on. Talk a bit about that. 0:39:15.410 --> 0:39:18.810 Well, it's one of my favorite things to talk about, really, 0:39:18.810 --> 0:39:22.009 and I call it the mean time because I call 0:39:22.010 --> 0:39:25.610 the mean time. It's when we offer a prayer to God, 0:39:25.810 --> 0:39:29.570 turn this kid around, God, please touch him. And then 0:39:29.570 --> 0:39:32.570 the waiting. And I talk about how it can get 0:39:32.570 --> 0:39:36.529 so mean. In the meantime, you start getting disappointed. You 0:39:36.530 --> 0:39:40.129 get discouraged again. Those feelings of guilt or shame or 0:39:40.130 --> 0:39:45.170 isolation start coming into you. And so what I say is, 0:39:45.170 --> 0:39:48.529 we've got to stand in the Word of God and 0:39:48.530 --> 0:39:51.049 declare it for ourselves and for our family and for 0:39:51.050 --> 0:39:55.370 our children. And then I, I begin to find promises 0:39:55.370 --> 0:39:58.009 from the Lord and and just speak them over our 0:39:58.010 --> 0:40:03.050 family and our children, all of these things. See, they 0:40:03.160 --> 0:40:07.000 edify and encourage us as parents, but it overflows to 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:11.239 the children until they turn around. I just love the 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:15.360 fact that when we dig deep in the trenches with 0:40:15.360 --> 0:40:19.279 God and partner with him and realize it's his battle, 0:40:20.000 --> 0:40:21.880 but we're going to partner and do everything in the 0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:27.240 physical and in the supernatural spiritual realm. Then God comes 0:40:27.239 --> 0:40:30.880 in and we just in the meantime, wait for the 0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:34.080 expectantly for him to move on our behalf and for 0:40:34.080 --> 0:40:34.959 our children. 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:40.719 Yeah. Let's talk a bit about a prodigal who, in 0:40:40.719 --> 0:40:46.400 the midst of their lifestyle, actually dies. It could be 0:40:46.400 --> 0:40:51.400 in an accident, you know, or or just physical things 0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:55.879 responding to drugs and alcohol or whatever. And that parent 0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:59.600 feels guilty. Where do they go from there? 0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:03.640 I'm so glad you asked this today because I didn't 0:41:03.640 --> 0:41:07.560 want to come across as Pollyanna. I don't believe you 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:10.360 do this and that and you get an outcome. We 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:14.520 certainly see we've got fentanyl poisonings again. We've got suicide 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:17.800 rates that are off the charts. I have a chapter 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:20.640 in the parents battle plan. It's it's when the worst 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:25.040 happens and my heart breaks for any parent that has 0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:27.960 outlived their child, that's not the way God designed it. 0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:33.000 But I wanted to let them know. I understand that 0:41:33.000 --> 0:41:37.120 it happens, right? And I say to parents, we pray 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:40.080 for miracles, for our prodigals or for our children that 0:41:40.080 --> 0:41:44.600 are struggling. But you didn't get the miracle you asked 0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:48.120 God for, but you are living a miracle. And what 0:41:48.120 --> 0:41:51.239 I mean by that is you're able to get up 0:41:51.239 --> 0:41:54.440 in the morning and get through the day, and that's 0:41:54.440 --> 0:41:58.759 because of God's loving strength in your life. And the 0:41:58.760 --> 0:42:01.710 only hope that we all have is the promise from 0:42:01.710 --> 0:42:04.710 God and revelations 21 four and it says, you know, 0:42:04.710 --> 0:42:07.750 there will be no more sorrow, no more pain when 0:42:07.750 --> 0:42:10.870 we get to heaven. And so we have to stand 0:42:10.870 --> 0:42:14.910 on that promise of reuniting with that child one day 0:42:14.910 --> 0:42:18.469 in heaven. That's the miracle that they get. 0:42:19.590 --> 0:42:21.989 You know, sometimes say to parents who sit in my 0:42:21.989 --> 0:42:26.589 office and say, what did we do wrong? That our 0:42:26.590 --> 0:42:31.230 child turned out this way? And I say to them, well, 0:42:31.790 --> 0:42:34.989 ask God. I mean, if you did wrong, God will 0:42:34.989 --> 0:42:37.350 show you where you did wrong, and you can confess 0:42:37.350 --> 0:42:40.750 that to God, and God will forgive you. But then 0:42:40.750 --> 0:42:46.589 let me remind you, God's first two children went wrong. 0:42:46.989 --> 0:42:51.310 Adam and Eve. They had a perfect father, and yet 0:42:51.310 --> 0:42:56.710 they made poor decisions. So don't take the full responsibility 0:42:57.110 --> 0:43:02.550 of your adult children's wrong decisions on yourself. Don't take 0:43:02.550 --> 0:43:06.750 the blame for something your adult child is doing. God 0:43:06.750 --> 0:43:10.589 gives all of us freedom to follow him or not 0:43:10.590 --> 0:43:13.470 to follow him. And we have to give our adult 0:43:13.469 --> 0:43:17.310 children that same kind of freedom that they have to 0:43:17.350 --> 0:43:20.310 make decisions to follow God or not to follow God. 0:43:20.830 --> 0:43:24.710 So it is it's very painful to see parents go 0:43:24.710 --> 0:43:27.390 through this. And particularly if a child dies in the 0:43:27.390 --> 0:43:31.069 midst of, you know, being a prodigal. So when a 0:43:31.070 --> 0:43:34.549 prodigal does return, however, which is what we pray for 0:43:34.550 --> 0:43:37.150 and what we hope for, what are some of the 0:43:37.150 --> 0:43:41.430 steps toward forgiveness and healing? Uh, in the in the 0:43:41.469 --> 0:43:43.950 process of restoring the relationship? 0:43:44.710 --> 0:43:49.550 Well, it's not easy and it's not simple. Remember, now, 0:43:49.550 --> 0:43:55.030 Steven was 15 years into just making poor choices, and 0:43:55.030 --> 0:43:59.060 so I had to make a shift in my own heart. 0:43:59.780 --> 0:44:02.739 Originally and initially. And that was to look at him 0:44:02.739 --> 0:44:07.100 through God's eyes. I started seeing him as broken, and 0:44:07.100 --> 0:44:09.940 when I started doing that, I was able to love 0:44:09.940 --> 0:44:14.580 him through a forgiveness that is beyond me. I say 0:44:14.580 --> 0:44:17.780 the Holy Spirit is the one that helps us walk 0:44:17.780 --> 0:44:21.219 this out. I believe that the Holy Spirit is the 0:44:21.219 --> 0:44:25.860 one that helps us forgive. It's very difficult to forgive. 0:44:25.860 --> 0:44:29.980 Those that have betrayed us, lied to us, took us 0:44:29.980 --> 0:44:33.819 for granted. So one of the first steps, I would 0:44:33.820 --> 0:44:37.500 say mom or dad or grandparent or whoever that has 0:44:37.500 --> 0:44:40.940 this loved one that has turned around and needs forgiveness, 0:44:40.980 --> 0:44:45.180 is to have that eternal lens and that unconditional love 0:44:45.180 --> 0:44:48.660 in your heart through the power of the Holy Spirit. 0:44:49.100 --> 0:44:51.980 And you know, we mentioned the words I'm sorry again. 0:44:52.300 --> 0:44:54.820 You know, I say they're the two most powerful words. 0:44:54.820 --> 0:44:58.250 It's not saying you did anything wrong. It's saying, I'm 0:44:58.250 --> 0:45:02.570 sorry we're even here. And I'm just so thankful for 0:45:02.570 --> 0:45:07.330 this step of reconciliation. And I'm going to forgive you. 0:45:07.330 --> 0:45:12.010 And I'm going to love you unconditionally. And that begins 0:45:12.210 --> 0:45:13.770 the process of healing. 0:45:14.690 --> 0:45:18.210 Forgiveness is not a feeling, is it? It's a choice. 0:45:19.250 --> 0:45:19.969 Right? 0:45:20.170 --> 0:45:21.730 We can still feel hurt. 0:45:21.730 --> 0:45:25.370 We can still be grieved over the lost time and 0:45:25.410 --> 0:45:28.730 the lifestyle and all of that. And we can still 0:45:28.730 --> 0:45:31.930 feel hurt. We can even feel angry toward them. But 0:45:31.930 --> 0:45:36.569 forgiveness is that choice to pardon them. Which is what 0:45:36.610 --> 0:45:40.490 exactly what God does for us to pardon them, and 0:45:40.489 --> 0:45:44.210 also to remove the barrier that this has created between us, 0:45:44.690 --> 0:45:47.729 so that we can, in the future, move to having 0:45:47.730 --> 0:45:51.890 a more positive relationship. Yeah, forgiveness is a key issue. 0:45:51.930 --> 0:45:55.930 No question about that. Tell us again. You mentioned a 0:45:55.930 --> 0:45:58.370 little bit about where your children are today. But but 0:45:58.370 --> 0:46:01.089 tell us, since you shared each of them, where are 0:46:01.090 --> 0:46:02.410 they today in their journey? 0:46:03.370 --> 0:46:05.529 Well, I just want to throw a party, don't you? 0:46:05.570 --> 0:46:11.049 Isn't it a time of celebration to to see that 0:46:11.450 --> 0:46:14.450 a child that you know was 15 years in a 0:46:14.450 --> 0:46:18.570 journey in the pit of hell can be turned around 0:46:18.570 --> 0:46:21.290 and not just turned around? All three of my children 0:46:21.290 --> 0:46:24.770 are entrepreneurs, like their mom and dad. Stephen, the eldest, 0:46:24.770 --> 0:46:29.450 has an insurance brokerage. He's married. He has baby Elle, 0:46:29.810 --> 0:46:32.690 who made us la la and Papa first. And we 0:46:32.690 --> 0:46:35.810 just found out they're having another one. And then we 0:46:35.810 --> 0:46:40.250 have Lawson, who owns his own real estate investment firm 0:46:40.290 --> 0:46:43.050 and is a real estate agent. And then my daughter 0:46:43.050 --> 0:46:47.530 Kaylee is married and she too has a little boy 0:46:47.530 --> 0:46:49.970 that made us Lala and Papa. And now she's having 0:46:49.969 --> 0:46:54.680 another one. And she's a fantastic artist and a real 0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:59.480 estate agent. And just what's powerful to me is to 0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:03.760 see how on fire these three are. Since they had 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:09.800 such a significant experience and personal, intimate touch of God, 0:47:09.840 --> 0:47:14.400 they all three are so passionate about helping others find 0:47:14.400 --> 0:47:15.239 this too. 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:19.200 Yeah, that's powerful, isn't it? And when you think about 0:47:19.200 --> 0:47:22.600 it and look in the New Testament, you know, the apostles, 0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:26.600 many of the apostles were people who had a bad background. 0:47:26.640 --> 0:47:30.400 Paul himself, who wrote so much of the New Testament, 0:47:31.120 --> 0:47:35.800 was openly anti-God before he had his encounter with God. 0:47:35.840 --> 0:47:39.760 So it's amazing how God can turn lives around and 0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:44.560 and just make things totally different. So absolutely great. Let 0:47:44.560 --> 0:47:47.200 me ask you this. Uh, what did God do in 0:47:47.200 --> 0:47:52.280 your own life? Living with your children? Who who did 0:47:52.280 --> 0:47:56.919 for these years. Little prodigal lives. What? How did God 0:47:56.920 --> 0:47:58.640 use that in your own life? 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:02.240 Well, you know, he works a lot out in the fire, 0:48:02.280 --> 0:48:05.000 doesn't he? He says, you know, he the only way 0:48:05.000 --> 0:48:06.920 to get gold to really shine is to get it 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:11.480 through a fire. Um, he he he really reformed me 0:48:11.480 --> 0:48:15.919 from the inside out. I became so deeply surrendered to 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:19.160 him and his wills and his ways because I had 0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:22.399 no other place to go. You know, sometimes we think, oh, 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:25.480 we'll just pray like it's the last thing. Really, it 0:48:25.480 --> 0:48:28.520 should be the first thing. Sometimes we do that with God, right? 0:48:28.560 --> 0:48:31.120 We we try to do everything in the natural and 0:48:31.120 --> 0:48:35.080 in our control. But the most pivotal thing God did 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.800 through me was to teach me how to literally take 0:48:38.800 --> 0:48:41.400 pieces of my life and bring them to the altar 0:48:41.719 --> 0:48:44.240 and say, God, I'm bringing this to you. I'm laying 0:48:44.239 --> 0:48:47.640 it down so that I know that I know you 0:48:47.640 --> 0:48:51.830 are going to orchestrate. You are going to show me 0:48:52.030 --> 0:48:55.629 whatever I need to do or know. And it was 0:48:55.630 --> 0:48:59.350 so powerful. And and little did I know that all 0:48:59.390 --> 0:49:04.350 those tears from that broken heart, that mama's broken heart 0:49:04.350 --> 0:49:07.870 for years and years with three prodigals that God would 0:49:07.870 --> 0:49:12.630 use me to help thousands of parents and loved ones 0:49:12.830 --> 0:49:17.750 find ways to bring their prodigals home and heal their families. 0:49:17.910 --> 0:49:18.990 It's amazing. 0:49:19.310 --> 0:49:22.430 Yeah. Well, I want to thank you for being with 0:49:22.430 --> 0:49:26.469 us today, and thank you for allowing God to use 0:49:26.469 --> 0:49:30.550 all the pain and that you went through to now, 0:49:30.590 --> 0:49:33.310 as you just said, help so many other people. And 0:49:33.310 --> 0:49:35.310 I do believe that our listeners are going to find 0:49:35.350 --> 0:49:40.590 these books to be extremely helpful. So thanks for keeping 0:49:40.590 --> 0:49:43.230 open to God. And as you said, turning the only 0:49:43.230 --> 0:49:47.070 place you really could turn that had any answers and saying, 0:49:47.070 --> 0:49:48.510 thanks for being with us today. 0:49:48.790 --> 0:49:50.270 Thank you so much. 0:49:50.710 --> 0:49:53.109 Once again, the title of our featured resources are the 0:49:53.110 --> 0:49:57.549 books by our guest, Lane Lawson Kraft Warfare Parenting A 0:49:57.550 --> 0:50:01.110 Daily Battle Plan to Fight for Your child and the parents. 0:50:01.110 --> 0:50:05.710 Battle plan warfare strategies to win back your prodigal. Just 0:50:05.710 --> 0:50:10.790 go to building relationships to find out more. Again, building relationships. 0:50:12.150 --> 0:50:16.029 Next week, pastor and author Chip Ingram is going to 0:50:16.070 --> 0:50:18.629 encourage us to choose joy. 0:50:18.950 --> 0:50:22.070 Learn how to change your perspective and change your life 0:50:22.070 --> 0:50:25.310 in one week. Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve 0:50:25.310 --> 0:50:29.430 Wick for their production work on today's program. Building relationships 0:50:29.430 --> 0:50:32.549 with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio 0:50:32.750 --> 0:50:37.190 in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. 0:50:37.390 --> 0:50:38.469 Thanks for listening.