1 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:10,680 S1: Sometimes one program, one conversation will inform another. And that's 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,639 S1: what you're going to hear about today on Chris Fabry 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:14,680 S1: Live the program from the heart to the heart for 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,680 S1: the heart. And my hope today. My prayer is that 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:24,680 S1: someone who is shackled, chained, bound by bitterness, maybe anger, 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,240 S1: that you would take a step toward freedom, toward wholeness. 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,600 S1: That can happen. And I know it can happen because 8 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,320 S1: there was a fellow named Steven who told his story, 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,360 S1: and a man named Jason heard that story, and it 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,760 S1: made a huge difference in his life. So you're going 11 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:47,040 S1: to hear Jason's reaction, how he processed Steven's story. And 12 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,240 S1: then I want to hear from you. In fact, I 13 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,240 S1: think there's somebody listening today who might need to hear 14 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:56,280 S1: your story of when you forgave someone you didn't want 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:01:00,150 S1: to forgive who didn't deserve it. Have you done that? 16 00:01:00,430 --> 00:01:07,149 S1: I want you to write this number down (877) 548-3675. Don't 17 00:01:07,150 --> 00:01:10,310 S1: call us yet, but write that number down. You can 18 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:14,750 S1: also answer on Facebook as well. Find a link@chris.org. Let 19 00:01:14,750 --> 00:01:17,350 S1: me thank our team. Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. 20 00:01:17,390 --> 00:01:20,190 S1: Trish is on spring break with her family. Lisa's in 21 00:01:20,190 --> 00:01:23,429 S1: the chair today. Josh will answer your calls and we 22 00:01:23,430 --> 00:01:25,910 S1: have less than a week left in our offer of 23 00:01:25,910 --> 00:01:29,590 S1: Colleen Chow's excellent book. A week from today's April 1st. 24 00:01:29,590 --> 00:01:31,830 S1: Can you believe it? I want to send you a 25 00:01:31,830 --> 00:01:35,030 S1: copy of On Our Way Home, Colleen's reflections on the 26 00:01:35,030 --> 00:01:37,630 S1: Hope of Heaven in the middle of her cancer journey. 27 00:01:38,030 --> 00:01:40,710 S1: It will be so encouraging for us to hear from 28 00:01:40,709 --> 00:01:43,070 S1: you in the next few days. We are short of 29 00:01:43,069 --> 00:01:46,350 S1: our people goal this month, and your call or your 30 00:01:46,350 --> 00:01:48,950 S1: click will help us provide programs like the one we're 31 00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:52,630 S1: having today, and you'll be an encouragement to Colleen as well. 32 00:01:52,710 --> 00:02:01,050 S1: Call 8669 5th February to give a gift. Eight. Six. Six. (866) 953-2279. 33 00:02:01,250 --> 00:02:04,290 S1: Or just go to the website chris.org. You can see 34 00:02:04,290 --> 00:02:07,650 S1: how to give a one time gift or a monthly gift. 35 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:12,570 S1: Chris Fabbri. Fabbri Chris fabbri live.org. Let us hear from 36 00:02:12,570 --> 00:02:15,330 S1: you today, especially if you've never given what a treat 37 00:02:15,330 --> 00:02:17,730 S1: it'd be to hear from you. And thanks for your 38 00:02:17,730 --> 00:02:21,329 S1: support of the radio backyard fence. I try to be 39 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:23,490 S1: sensitive to what I think God wants to happen on 40 00:02:23,490 --> 00:02:26,330 S1: this program, with the questions I ask with the guests 41 00:02:26,330 --> 00:02:30,210 S1: that I invite. Well, as a team, we invite them. 42 00:02:30,690 --> 00:02:34,290 S1: And today's date remained open until just the other day 43 00:02:34,290 --> 00:02:37,450 S1: when I felt drawn back to Jason. Jason called and 44 00:02:37,450 --> 00:02:41,929 S1: left a message on February 17th. He called that 866 45 00:02:41,930 --> 00:02:44,370 S1: number and left a message. And you can do that 46 00:02:44,370 --> 00:02:48,330 S1: too 8669543. And I could not get his voice out 47 00:02:48,370 --> 00:02:51,370 S1: of my mind. And as I was asking God, Lord, 48 00:02:51,410 --> 00:02:54,210 S1: you know what? What should we do on Wednesday? I 49 00:02:54,210 --> 00:02:56,410 S1: felt like I needed to call Jason to get him 50 00:02:56,410 --> 00:03:00,400 S1: on the phone and hear more of his story. And 51 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,200 S1: I did that yesterday. So here's what we're going to do. 52 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,600 S1: I want you to hear Jason's voicemail that he left 53 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,360 S1: more than a month ago. And then you're going to 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,440 S1: hear the rest of, well, not the whole thing, but 55 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,280 S1: a lot of his story, a lot of the background. 56 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,960 S1: And then I'm going to open the lines for your 57 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:22,560 S1: story of when you extended forgiveness to somebody who didn't 58 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,919 S1: deserve it. What happened inside you when you did that? 59 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,239 S1: Think about that as you listen to his voicemail on 60 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,760 S1: February 17th. Singer songwriter Steven McWhirter told his story of 61 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,280 S1: radical forgiveness. He's the one who sings come Jesus, come. 62 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,240 S1: The forgiveness Stephen received after years of running from God 63 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,600 S1: made him find an inner transformation. And then he felt 64 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,240 S1: like God was asking him to forgive his father and 65 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,320 S1: his dad didn't deserve it. His dad was an evangelist. 66 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,500 S1: He was living a double life. He was abusive to 67 00:03:59,540 --> 00:04:04,260 S1: his wife and to his family. So Stephen told his story, 68 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:08,460 S1: a long story about the forgiveness that he offered, that 69 00:04:08,460 --> 00:04:11,380 S1: he had been offered and that he extended to his father. 70 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:17,140 S1: And after that program aired, Jason called and said this. 71 00:04:17,779 --> 00:04:21,020 S2: Hi, Chris, this is Jason. I was just listening to 72 00:04:21,060 --> 00:04:26,300 S2: your Steven McWhirter episode, and it came about a week 73 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:29,700 S2: or two too late. Not necessarily in a bad way. 74 00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:35,060 S2: I grew up with a verbally and physically abusive mother 75 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:40,460 S2: who's deaf and handicapped. For years I despised her and 76 00:04:40,460 --> 00:04:44,260 S2: didn't look at her as human. I'm in a situation 77 00:04:44,260 --> 00:04:46,140 S2: now that I'm in my 50s, that I have to 78 00:04:46,180 --> 00:04:50,020 S2: care for my elderly parents. And while I love my father, 79 00:04:50,420 --> 00:04:53,420 S2: I would tolerate my mother to go see him and 80 00:04:53,420 --> 00:04:58,409 S2: care for him and help out around the house. And recently, uh, 81 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:02,489 S2: there was, um, a visit where there were just multiple 82 00:05:02,529 --> 00:05:07,770 S2: boiling points, and I finally got up to leave and 83 00:05:07,770 --> 00:05:12,850 S2: my mother wept, uh, and asked me to stay as 84 00:05:12,850 --> 00:05:17,570 S2: she cried. I felt the spirit nudging me to to 85 00:05:17,610 --> 00:05:21,210 S2: just hold her and give her a hug as best 86 00:05:21,210 --> 00:05:24,330 S2: as she could. Uh, being deaf and not speaking English, 87 00:05:25,250 --> 00:05:31,289 S2: she said, I'm sorry. Please forgive me. Please stay. And 88 00:05:31,290 --> 00:05:33,970 S2: in that moment, I don't know how to explain it. 89 00:05:34,010 --> 00:05:36,810 S2: It was almost like being shattered into a million pieces 90 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:41,650 S2: and being put back together again. And the Lord reminded 91 00:05:41,650 --> 00:05:47,090 S2: me that I had treated him the same way that 92 00:05:47,089 --> 00:05:51,610 S2: my actions led to him dying on the cross, but 93 00:05:51,610 --> 00:05:54,390 S2: that my mother could be forgiven if I could be forgiven. 94 00:05:55,230 --> 00:05:59,910 S2: And listening to this episode with Steven McWhirter was a 95 00:05:59,910 --> 00:06:04,469 S2: hard listen. And yet, um, his song was a balm 96 00:06:04,670 --> 00:06:08,589 S2: for my soul to know that Jesus is going to 97 00:06:08,589 --> 00:06:12,190 S2: come and he's going to make all things new. And 98 00:06:12,190 --> 00:06:16,270 S2: while my mother is most likely not saved and most 99 00:06:16,270 --> 00:06:22,190 S2: likely not fixed, so to speak, um, I am, I 100 00:06:22,230 --> 00:06:27,870 S2: am saved. And, and that that moment was some kind 101 00:06:27,870 --> 00:06:31,670 S2: of fixing that has helped me see her as human 102 00:06:31,870 --> 00:06:36,950 S2: with a heart and cares and concerns and desires and dreams, 103 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:41,190 S2: instead of just a monster who gets in the way 104 00:06:41,190 --> 00:06:45,510 S2: of my joy. And, uh, I just appreciate that. I'm 105 00:06:45,510 --> 00:06:47,909 S2: sure you had a lot of listeners that that really 106 00:06:47,910 --> 00:06:50,550 S2: resonated with. Thanks, Chris. 107 00:06:52,580 --> 00:06:54,900 S1: If that were all we played today from Jason, that 108 00:06:54,900 --> 00:06:57,700 S1: would be enough, wouldn't it? That slice of his life, 109 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,700 S1: that story of the way he changed toward his mother, 110 00:07:02,700 --> 00:07:06,260 S1: that is a real transformation from the inside out, being 111 00:07:06,260 --> 00:07:11,020 S1: shattered and put back together. But there's more. I had 112 00:07:11,020 --> 00:07:13,340 S1: a conversation with Jason. I want you to hear that 113 00:07:13,340 --> 00:07:17,860 S1: details a little bit more of his story. And there's 114 00:07:17,860 --> 00:07:22,060 S1: one aspect of it that surprised me so much about 115 00:07:22,060 --> 00:07:26,620 S1: something he reveals. I had no idea the religious system 116 00:07:26,620 --> 00:07:28,700 S1: he was raised in. You're going to hear about that. 117 00:07:29,500 --> 00:07:31,420 S1: And then I want to hear from you. If you 118 00:07:31,420 --> 00:07:34,420 S1: have struggled to forgive someone and you took that step, 119 00:07:35,460 --> 00:07:37,540 S1: I want to know what that did in your own heart. 120 00:07:37,540 --> 00:07:46,340 S1: Write the number down (877) 548-3675. There is freedom in extending forgiveness, 121 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:49,900 S1: but this is probably the hardest thing we will ever do. 122 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,640 S1: Don't miss the rest of the story with Jason. It's 123 00:07:52,640 --> 00:08:16,160 S1: coming up straight ahead on Moody Radio. What happens to 124 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,920 S1: us when we forgive? What does God do in our 125 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,840 S1: hearts when we choose to forgive someone else? We talked 126 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,160 S1: a little bit about that on Monday with Chip Ingram. 127 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,600 S1: Today it's Jason's turn. I just played the voicemail from 128 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,239 S1: Jason as he responded to what singer songwriter Steven McWhirter shared. 129 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,600 S1: I played that voicemail for Jason. He heard his own 130 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:41,040 S1: story from more than a month ago, and here's how 131 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,040 S1: he reacted. 132 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:42,959 S3: Uh. 133 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,760 S4: That was that was tough to listen to. I, I 134 00:08:49,429 --> 00:08:56,830 S4: went through that feeling all over again. But there's joy 135 00:08:56,870 --> 00:09:00,630 S4: that that the Lord continues to work on me in 136 00:09:00,630 --> 00:09:01,949 S4: spite of my stubbornness. 137 00:09:03,429 --> 00:09:08,030 S1: Something happened then as you were listening to Steven, because 138 00:09:08,030 --> 00:09:11,510 S1: what what happened with your mom had already occurred. That's 139 00:09:11,510 --> 00:09:13,190 S1: why you said at the beginning of it it was 140 00:09:13,230 --> 00:09:15,150 S1: a week or two too late, right? 141 00:09:15,950 --> 00:09:20,830 S4: Right. So, uh, I did go through that being broken 142 00:09:20,830 --> 00:09:25,150 S4: and put back together and, uh, being able to, to 143 00:09:25,190 --> 00:09:28,589 S4: actually forgive my mother instead of thinking or saying that 144 00:09:28,590 --> 00:09:33,870 S4: I had. And when I heard, uh, Steven's story and 145 00:09:33,910 --> 00:09:37,429 S4: then I heard his song, it just touched me to 146 00:09:37,470 --> 00:09:40,110 S4: the heart. You know, deep down I know this world 147 00:09:40,110 --> 00:09:46,030 S4: isn't home. Come, Jesus. Come. And knowing where that song 148 00:09:46,030 --> 00:09:50,690 S4: came from for him was part of what helped apply 149 00:09:50,690 --> 00:09:55,210 S4: it for me. He. He talks about healing every hurt 150 00:09:55,730 --> 00:10:01,250 S4: and writing every wrong. And, um, and my childhood was, 151 00:10:01,290 --> 00:10:07,170 S4: was difficult. Um, there were, uh, um, I don't know 152 00:10:07,170 --> 00:10:09,929 S4: how much I really want to, I want to share, but, 153 00:10:10,330 --> 00:10:12,530 S4: you know, there were my mom and I used to, 154 00:10:12,570 --> 00:10:17,050 S4: to physically fight until my teenage years. And, um, there 155 00:10:17,050 --> 00:10:20,370 S4: were a couple times that she tried to stab me 156 00:10:20,570 --> 00:10:24,370 S4: and she said some of the most awful things. And 157 00:10:24,410 --> 00:10:27,690 S4: by the time I was 18 years old and left 158 00:10:27,690 --> 00:10:31,410 S4: the house, uh, I didn't didn't feel like much of 159 00:10:31,410 --> 00:10:36,450 S4: a man. And, um, thankfully, the Lord restores the years 160 00:10:36,450 --> 00:10:37,530 S4: the locusts have eaten. 161 00:10:38,130 --> 00:10:43,850 S1: MM. It sounds like because she's deaf, she wasn't able 162 00:10:44,570 --> 00:10:47,920 S1: or he she spoke in a different language, you said. 163 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,800 S4: Um, yeah. If you've ever heard a deaf person speak, 164 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:56,360 S4: it just. Uh, especially, um, my mother, who's profoundly deaf, 165 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,640 S4: can't hear anything. Um, you know, she's tried to learn 166 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,560 S4: to speak, but it doesn't doesn't come across very well 167 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:03,000 S4: at all. 168 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,320 S1: Yeah. So when she said these things to you, were 169 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,560 S1: they verbally or did she sign them to you? 170 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,079 S4: Oh no, she, she was crying into my into my 171 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:18,040 S4: chest as I was embracing her. And when she said 172 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,679 S4: those things, um, no matter what anyone else would have heard, 173 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,840 S4: it was, it was just clear as day. I understood 174 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:30,559 S4: the words of her mouth and the pain in her heart. And, um, 175 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,120 S4: and like I said, uh, in, in just a millisecond, 176 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:40,960 S4: you know, every, all of these emotions flash across the spectrum. Uh, 177 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:47,540 S4: but I knew that, um, that she deserved forgiveness, that 178 00:11:47,540 --> 00:11:53,339 S4: she was my mother, that I had not honored and loved. And, um, 179 00:11:53,580 --> 00:11:57,060 S4: I just knew that that those feelings of her heart 180 00:11:57,059 --> 00:12:01,740 S4: were genuine and not, not just trying to resolve, uh, 181 00:12:01,780 --> 00:12:04,740 S4: a dispute so that I would stay and serve her 182 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:07,020 S4: purposes around the house, which is kind of how I 183 00:12:07,020 --> 00:12:10,220 S4: always felt like I was, I was treated when I 184 00:12:10,220 --> 00:12:11,219 S4: would go and visit. 185 00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:16,620 S1: Yeah. So there's deep things that you're sharing here today. 186 00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:19,340 S1: And Jason, I, I just want to tell you that 187 00:12:19,340 --> 00:12:23,180 S1: there's somebody listening right now who is going through could 188 00:12:23,179 --> 00:12:25,700 S1: be a family member, that they have a rift with 189 00:12:25,700 --> 00:12:30,620 S1: a friend or a coworker, whatever. These, these deep things. 190 00:12:30,620 --> 00:12:33,460 S1: When you have this with your mother or with Steven 191 00:12:33,460 --> 00:12:37,740 S1: and his father, it's like it, it shapes your whole life. 192 00:12:37,740 --> 00:12:43,340 S1: It shapes your identity, who you feel like you are. Right? 193 00:12:44,650 --> 00:12:49,290 S4: Yeah. For sure. Um, and in talking about this, I'm 194 00:12:49,330 --> 00:12:54,010 S4: actually realizing how little I've talked about it at a 195 00:12:54,010 --> 00:12:58,210 S4: deeper level, the feelings that I have toward my mother 196 00:12:58,250 --> 00:13:02,450 S4: are not things that I've really addressed with anyone. Um, 197 00:13:02,450 --> 00:13:05,690 S4: I've had a couple sessions in therapy, but never really 198 00:13:05,690 --> 00:13:09,050 S4: stuck with it. And, um, it's helpful. 199 00:13:09,450 --> 00:13:13,410 S1: Yeah. Well, and talking about it, they say that, uh, 200 00:13:13,410 --> 00:13:16,010 S1: you know, if you're the team lift thing, if you, 201 00:13:16,010 --> 00:13:18,290 S1: if you buy, I buy a lot of furniture where 202 00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:21,530 S1: it says team lift. Don't lift this by yourself. You know, 203 00:13:21,570 --> 00:13:24,450 S1: you gotta get somebody on the other end of it 204 00:13:24,450 --> 00:13:27,890 S1: because it's all plywood. It's very heavy. And it's almost 205 00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:31,290 S1: like that with with our lives, isn't it, that you 206 00:13:31,290 --> 00:13:33,810 S1: need somebody else to help you lift this? 207 00:13:34,809 --> 00:13:39,770 S4: You absolutely do. And I have a wonderful wife who's, um, 208 00:13:40,490 --> 00:13:44,790 S4: always willing, willing to listen. And and she's just wonderful. 209 00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:49,790 S4: But this is, is one of those things that, um. 210 00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:55,510 S4: I compartmentalize the feelings, but not the reactions. I mean, 211 00:13:55,550 --> 00:13:59,030 S4: it was, it was easy to see that, um. My 212 00:13:59,030 --> 00:14:03,950 S4: relationship with my mother was one of, uh, acrimony. Um, 213 00:14:04,630 --> 00:14:06,390 S4: but if you were to ask me how it made 214 00:14:06,390 --> 00:14:09,350 S4: me feel or to talk about that, I just would 215 00:14:09,390 --> 00:14:13,470 S4: have said, you know, well, that's my mother and, and 216 00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:15,910 S4: I just have to deal with it. Um, but on 217 00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:19,390 S4: the inside, um, obviously there's a lot more that that 218 00:14:19,390 --> 00:14:23,990 S4: comes with that. And having that moment with her, uh, 219 00:14:24,470 --> 00:14:28,830 S4: a month or so back, um, also helps me know 220 00:14:28,830 --> 00:14:32,990 S4: how to go to God with it. You know, obviously 221 00:14:33,270 --> 00:14:38,590 S4: Jesus can help us through anything. Um, but it's a 222 00:14:38,590 --> 00:14:41,110 S4: lot tougher to get his help if you don't ask 223 00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:41,820 S4: for it. 224 00:14:43,620 --> 00:14:47,380 S1: Exactly. But what does that look like? Because we were 225 00:14:47,380 --> 00:14:49,740 S1: talking with Chip Ingram a couple of days ago and 226 00:14:49,740 --> 00:14:53,500 S1: Chip was the question is, what does love look like here? 227 00:14:53,940 --> 00:14:57,100 S1: And and he talked about in the book that he wrote, 228 00:14:57,140 --> 00:15:02,020 S1: I Choose love, that forgiveness is a part of this equation. 229 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:06,540 S1: And to most of society, forgiveness is something that you, 230 00:15:06,580 --> 00:15:09,660 S1: you know, you don't hold unless you really, really are sorry. 231 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,980 S1: And et cetera, et cetera. But it sounds like the 232 00:15:12,980 --> 00:15:17,740 S1: forgiveness that you have received from God that you didn't earn. 233 00:15:17,780 --> 00:15:21,460 S1: You know, you didn't deserve. It is you came to 234 00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,740 S1: the place where you finally saw your mother, and you 235 00:15:24,740 --> 00:15:28,140 S1: wanted to extend that to her. So I ask you 236 00:15:28,140 --> 00:15:31,620 S1: the same question, then what does that look like? What 237 00:15:31,620 --> 00:15:37,300 S1: does forgiveness look like in this situation when you could 238 00:15:37,300 --> 00:15:39,620 S1: be triggered the next time you see her and she 239 00:15:39,620 --> 00:15:43,200 S1: treats you like you were when you were a teenager, 240 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,920 S1: you know, and it and it triggers that. And you 241 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,920 S1: think of that thing back there. What does forgiveness look 242 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,000 S1: like on a daily basis? 243 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,280 S4: Well, I can still be triggered when I see her, 244 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,760 S4: but it's not it's not nearly the way that it 245 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,320 S4: used to be. It's not not a triggering of anger. 246 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,960 S4: It's service that, you know, my, my parents are both handicapped. 247 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,800 S4: They live two minutes from me and it's, it's changing 248 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,800 S4: light bulbs. It's when I deliver food. Now, I don't 249 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:18,360 S4: throw the bag at her and head home. It's it's 250 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,200 S4: putting it on a plate and making sure that, uh, 251 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:27,880 S4: she has her sugar free ketchup and etcetera. Um, service 252 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,560 S4: service is a way to show love after you've, um, 253 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:37,560 S4: given forgiveness. Um, my mother being deaf and that disability, 254 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,310 S4: even though I know some sign language, there's still a 255 00:16:42,310 --> 00:16:47,150 S4: barrier there to having deeper conversations. There's still a barrier there, 256 00:16:47,190 --> 00:16:51,270 S4: even to try to share the gospel with her or to, 257 00:16:51,310 --> 00:16:53,990 S4: to try to say, you know, what's on your mind 258 00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:55,590 S4: when you're doing these things. 259 00:16:56,070 --> 00:17:02,390 S1: So forgiveness then is something that changes you. It sets 260 00:17:02,390 --> 00:17:04,190 S1: you free, right? 261 00:17:05,230 --> 00:17:11,470 S4: Absolutely. Um, you know, even her voice sounds different to me. 262 00:17:11,910 --> 00:17:16,510 S4: Whereas in the past when she would try to verbalize, 263 00:17:16,510 --> 00:17:21,190 S4: to get your attention or to complain or whatever the, 264 00:17:21,190 --> 00:17:25,750 S4: the emotion was, um, it was always something that I would, 265 00:17:25,790 --> 00:17:32,110 S4: I would just dismiss. And, um, one of the things 266 00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:35,350 S4: coming out of this that I realized is that, um, 267 00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:38,649 S4: even though when I became a believer. I was certain 268 00:17:38,650 --> 00:17:42,770 S4: that I had given my mother forgiveness, and I had 269 00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:47,450 S4: told the Lord that I forgive my mother. Um, I 270 00:17:47,450 --> 00:17:51,810 S4: wasn't giving her the reward of forgiveness. I wasn't putting 271 00:17:51,810 --> 00:17:55,890 S4: it behind me. It was it was still in there. Um, 272 00:17:55,930 --> 00:17:59,730 S4: it was just words. You know, I don't apparently, I 273 00:18:00,050 --> 00:18:03,330 S4: don't feel like I was taking God very seriously. When 274 00:18:03,450 --> 00:18:05,610 S4: when he tells us to forgive. 275 00:18:06,170 --> 00:18:10,930 S1: Yeah. So it's now it's changed from the head to 276 00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:15,889 S1: the heart. You made those 12in. Yeah. The, uh, the 277 00:18:16,050 --> 00:18:19,210 S1: and my, and my thought is here, Jason, that there's 278 00:18:19,210 --> 00:18:23,810 S1: somebody listening who is so identifying with the story that 279 00:18:23,810 --> 00:18:28,010 S1: you're telling, but they aren't there and they're asking the question, 280 00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:32,010 S1: so what, what was it that got you over the hump? 281 00:18:32,010 --> 00:18:36,640 S1: How did you get over that hurdle of actually Seeing 282 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,400 S1: your mom. Uh, do do you attribute it with just 283 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,280 S1: simply God at work in your heart? 284 00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:50,359 S4: Absolutely. It wasn't anything of my own. Um, that that 285 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,600 S4: is a work that God did in me and for 286 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,919 S4: me and for her. And who knows, maybe with the 287 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:03,080 S4: forgiveness and the love that I show my mother, maybe 288 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,080 S4: we'll have the opportunity to see her be saved. Currently, 289 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:11,040 S4: she and my father are both Jehovah's Witnesses. Um, I 290 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,800 S4: grew up in that. And by the grace of God, 291 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,160 S4: when he introduced me to my wife, she introduced me 292 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,440 S4: to the gospel. Um, something she learned while she was 293 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:21,920 S4: at Moody Bible Institute. 294 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:22,480 S1: No. 295 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:23,560 S4: Praise God for Moody. 296 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,520 S1: Know it all comes. It all comes back to DL, 297 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:28,160 S1: doesn't it? 298 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,400 S3: That's for sure. I had no idea. 299 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,040 S1: Okay, so you live in Michigan, right? 300 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:33,919 S3: Yes. 301 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:37,699 S1: And you grew up in in Michigan. That's where you, uh, 302 00:19:37,859 --> 00:19:38,460 S1: your childhood. 303 00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:38,620 S3: Was. 304 00:19:38,859 --> 00:19:40,900 S4: Raised and. Been here my whole life. 305 00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:41,580 S3: Okay. 306 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:45,740 S1: So you you root for that team with the big stadium. Probably. 307 00:19:46,260 --> 00:19:47,460 S4: Absolutely. 308 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:50,740 S1: Now, you know that I, I kind of have Ohio 309 00:19:50,740 --> 00:19:52,820 S1: State in my background. So you're not going to hang 310 00:19:52,820 --> 00:19:53,740 S1: up on me, are you? 311 00:19:54,580 --> 00:19:55,500 S4: Not on purpose. 312 00:19:57,300 --> 00:20:02,140 S1: Um, okay, so you mentioned the another faith belief that 313 00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:06,700 S1: doesn't believe in. I mean, I have respect for anybody 314 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:11,060 S1: of any religion, but that belief in Jehovah's Witnesses is 315 00:20:11,060 --> 00:20:14,540 S1: very much you earn your way. You do. You do 316 00:20:14,580 --> 00:20:19,780 S1: it yourself. You earn your way into God's favor. And 317 00:20:19,940 --> 00:20:24,340 S1: so your, your wife introducing you to this idea of 318 00:20:24,380 --> 00:20:27,020 S1: you can't do it on your own. It's something that's 319 00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:31,780 S1: given to you must have been quite different, right? 320 00:20:32,780 --> 00:20:39,409 S4: Absolutely. Um, I growing up, all, all I ever really 321 00:20:39,410 --> 00:20:45,050 S4: heard about was obedience. And obviously I think obedience is important. Um, 322 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:49,610 S4: we should obey Jesus, but a term that I never 323 00:20:49,609 --> 00:20:54,449 S4: heard growing up on Tuesday night, Thursday night, Saturday morning 324 00:20:54,450 --> 00:20:58,690 S4: and Sunday morning, every day that Jehovah's Witnesses meet. I 325 00:20:58,690 --> 00:21:05,130 S4: never heard the term grace. Um, and even at family funerals, 326 00:21:05,170 --> 00:21:07,690 S4: you know, when I go back to a Kingdom hall 327 00:21:07,690 --> 00:21:11,170 S4: and and one of my loved ones is buried, there's, 328 00:21:11,330 --> 00:21:17,129 S4: there's no confident hope in the resurrection. And Jesus paid 329 00:21:17,130 --> 00:21:20,649 S4: it all all to him I owe. Um, and I 330 00:21:20,690 --> 00:21:22,610 S4: don't want to steal from that. And I don't want 331 00:21:22,609 --> 00:21:24,369 S4: to see anybody else steal from that. 332 00:21:24,410 --> 00:21:28,209 S1: Um, and I think right there, you put your finger 333 00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:34,670 S1: on kind of the rift, the, the earning or the receiving. 334 00:21:35,150 --> 00:21:38,109 S1: And once you. And it goes back to Steven's story too. 335 00:21:38,150 --> 00:21:44,990 S1: Once he received that grace from God, he was compelled. Well, 336 00:21:44,990 --> 00:21:47,429 S1: his wife was part of it, too. You could tell the. 337 00:21:47,670 --> 00:21:50,189 S1: We could tell that story again. His wife is the 338 00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:53,189 S1: one who started to open up about. I think we 339 00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:55,550 S1: need to forgive your dad, or you need to forgive 340 00:21:55,550 --> 00:21:58,310 S1: your dad. And that was the door that kind of 341 00:21:58,350 --> 00:22:03,190 S1: started that whole. That whole avalanche of forgiveness and mercy 342 00:22:03,190 --> 00:22:07,070 S1: and grace. Once you've received it, you want to extend 343 00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:09,830 S1: it to others. And that's what happened to you. Again, 344 00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:13,350 S1: as you said, not anything that you did. God kind 345 00:22:13,390 --> 00:22:15,310 S1: of poured that into your soul. 346 00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:21,710 S4: Sure. And it's when when God gives you forgiveness, it's 347 00:22:21,710 --> 00:22:27,109 S4: not like you've received just just one piece, one credit 348 00:22:27,150 --> 00:22:30,710 S4: of forgiveness. I've received an infinite amount of forgiveness. I 349 00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:34,260 S4: should be able to pay forward an infinite amount of 350 00:22:34,260 --> 00:22:36,300 S4: forgiveness in the name of Jesus. 351 00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:40,260 S1: Is there anything you want to say to somebody who's listening, 352 00:22:40,260 --> 00:22:43,219 S1: who is struggling with that? Who says, you know, I'm 353 00:22:43,260 --> 00:22:47,100 S1: glad that that happened in Steven's life, wrote a great song. 354 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:50,100 S1: I'm glad it happened in Jason's life with his mom. 355 00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:53,140 S1: And I hope she becomes a believer. She and her 356 00:22:53,180 --> 00:22:55,980 S1: and your dad, too. Is there anything you want to 357 00:22:55,980 --> 00:22:58,740 S1: say to that person who says, but I. I can't 358 00:22:58,740 --> 00:23:02,060 S1: get there. I just don't know that I can do 359 00:23:02,260 --> 00:23:03,540 S1: what you're talking about. 360 00:23:04,660 --> 00:23:07,500 S4: Well, as you mentioned earlier, you don't want to do 361 00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:11,459 S4: it on your own. Um, continue to seek God to, 362 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,500 S4: to ask him to help you to do that. Uh, 363 00:23:14,500 --> 00:23:19,379 S4: if you read in second Corinthians one, um, it says 364 00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:22,340 S4: that we're comforted in our troubles so that we can 365 00:23:22,340 --> 00:23:26,860 S4: comfort others with the same that we've received from the Lord. Um, 366 00:23:27,420 --> 00:23:32,400 S4: he's going to give you the power to do that. Um, 367 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,119 S4: and you might just be going through a phase right 368 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:38,800 S4: now of, of building up to it. That as you 369 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,919 S4: continue to fill your heart and your mind with the 370 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,600 S4: love and the grace of God, that maybe that bank 371 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,399 S4: fills up enough that that you're finally feeling confident enough 372 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,440 S4: to pay it forward. 373 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,880 S1: I am so glad Jason made that phone call more 374 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,440 S1: than a month ago in response to the program. He 375 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,120 S1: extended forgiveness to his mom and look at what it did. 376 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,560 S1: You can hear it in his voice. It set him free. 377 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,560 S1: And I think that's what the enemy does not want 378 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,680 S1: us to understand that forgiveness. It is about both people. 379 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:17,240 S1: But what it does to the forgiver is so powerful. 380 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,960 S1: Do you agree with that? I want you to help 381 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,280 S1: me out. Have you extended that kind of forgiveness to someone? 382 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,669 S1: Someone that you have felt they don't. They don't deserve it. 383 00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:35,350 S1: When you did. Well, how'd you get over the hump 384 00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:40,470 S1: of the. They don't deserve it. What happened inside of you? 385 00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:48,670 S1: What happened to your relationship? Here's the number. (877) 548-3675. Call 386 00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:50,870 S1: me right now. I want to hear from you right now. 387 00:24:50,910 --> 00:24:53,910 S1: Your story of forgiveness. Because your story might do the 388 00:24:53,910 --> 00:24:58,710 S1: same thing in someone's life that Stephen Mcwhirter's story did 389 00:24:58,710 --> 00:25:03,109 S1: in Jason's life. I believe there is power in our stories. 390 00:25:03,670 --> 00:25:07,910 S1: So tell me your story of when you forgave someone 391 00:25:08,230 --> 00:25:14,670 S1: who you felt like didn't deserve it. 877. Five. Four. Eight. Three. Six. Seven. Five. 392 00:25:15,070 --> 00:25:18,350 S1: Or perhaps you're on the other side of this and 393 00:25:18,350 --> 00:25:22,470 S1: you're the person who was forgiven. What did that do 394 00:25:22,670 --> 00:25:25,910 S1: in your life? We're going to take both sides of 395 00:25:25,910 --> 00:25:29,660 S1: the story today, but I really want to hear. Especially 396 00:25:29,660 --> 00:25:33,419 S1: if you have forgiven someone else. What's that done in 397 00:25:33,420 --> 00:25:40,500 S1: your life? Lines are open right now. Eight seven. Seven. Five. Four. Eight. Three. Six. Seven. Five. 398 00:25:40,540 --> 00:25:43,660 S1: Your story might help somebody who's right in the middle 399 00:25:43,660 --> 00:26:06,899 S1: of the struggle. Today on Moody Radio. Now that I 400 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:08,740 S1: think about it, this has been a theme of this 401 00:26:08,740 --> 00:26:13,340 S1: program for a lot of years in many ways. Um, 402 00:26:13,340 --> 00:26:18,980 S1: the forgiveness we offer does something inside the forgiver. And 403 00:26:18,980 --> 00:26:21,220 S1: I put a question up on Facebook this morning, what 404 00:26:21,220 --> 00:26:25,500 S1: happened inside when you forgave someone who was hard to forgive? 405 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,680 S1: And there's the most frequently used word in all of 406 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,800 S1: this is the word. Do you know what it would be? 407 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,080 S1: What is it? What do you what what word do 408 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:42,360 S1: you think people use when talking about the the forgiveness 409 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,320 S1: that they've offered to others? Somebody who doesn't deserve it. 410 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:52,560 S1: The word is for them. Carmelita. My pal in West Virginia. Carmelita. Freedom. 411 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,639 S1: A weird kind of freedom. I remember running into the 412 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,160 S1: people face to face at the grocery store and thinking, 413 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,200 S1: I know them from somewhere. When it registered in my mind, 414 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,879 S1: I knew I had really forgiven and I really was free. 415 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,640 S1: They looked very uncomfortable and I was wondering who they 416 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,560 S1: even were. That's how you know you have forgiven when 417 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,120 S1: you can't remember the fault. But. But here's the other thing. 418 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,760 S1: If you do remember, it doesn't mean that you're a failure. Forgiveness. 419 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,360 S1: If you do remember the fault and it keeps and 420 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,869 S1: it comes up to you again, that's not a failure. 421 00:27:26,150 --> 00:27:30,310 S1: It means you're human. Welcome to the human race. Mary 422 00:27:30,310 --> 00:27:32,670 S1: is in Florida. Mary, why did you call today? 423 00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:37,870 S5: I called to share just briefly what God did in 424 00:27:37,869 --> 00:27:41,190 S5: my life when I chose to forgive my parents. Um, 425 00:27:41,230 --> 00:27:46,030 S5: and it came in stages. Um, and daddy was the 426 00:27:46,030 --> 00:27:49,510 S5: one I realized I needed to forgive the most. I 427 00:27:49,510 --> 00:27:52,710 S5: had the most hate in my heart toward him. And 428 00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:56,750 S5: God showed me that that was, uh, not an obedience 429 00:27:57,150 --> 00:27:59,710 S5: to God in His word, and that I had to 430 00:27:59,750 --> 00:28:04,030 S5: forgive to be obedient and be right with God, regardless 431 00:28:04,030 --> 00:28:08,190 S5: of what daddy did. And, um, and that when I 432 00:28:08,190 --> 00:28:11,470 S5: felt like daddy didn't deserve it, God reminded me that 433 00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:14,150 S5: I didn't deserve to be forgiven by him either. But 434 00:28:14,150 --> 00:28:17,109 S5: he chose to do it. And, um. 435 00:28:17,270 --> 00:28:17,990 S3: Can I say something. 436 00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:22,070 S1: Mary? Just this is this is striking me. I don't the, 437 00:28:22,190 --> 00:28:26,050 S1: the Litmus test of. Has she really forgiven him though? 438 00:28:26,290 --> 00:28:29,370 S1: The litmus test is you can't hate somebody you call daddy. 439 00:28:30,090 --> 00:28:33,090 S1: You have to. You know, you have to have worked 440 00:28:33,090 --> 00:28:36,810 S1: through some to be able to give him that, uh, 441 00:28:36,850 --> 00:28:39,010 S1: kind moniker of daddy. 442 00:28:39,050 --> 00:28:43,690 S5: Absolutely. Yes. And the the it's a battle of the mind. 443 00:28:44,010 --> 00:28:46,850 S5: And we need to remember two scriptures that I focus 444 00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:49,970 S5: on every day of my life whatsoever things are true, 445 00:28:49,970 --> 00:28:52,330 S5: just pure, lovely, good report. They have to be all 446 00:28:52,330 --> 00:28:56,970 S5: those things. We can't just piecemeal thoughts together. And then 447 00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:59,090 S5: we also have to take every thought captive. So every 448 00:28:59,090 --> 00:29:03,370 S5: time Satan tried to remind me of things that had happened, 449 00:29:03,370 --> 00:29:05,210 S5: and sometimes daddy would be the one to bring it up, 450 00:29:05,210 --> 00:29:06,890 S5: I'm like, nope, we forgave that. We're not going to 451 00:29:06,890 --> 00:29:09,170 S5: go dig that old bone up out of the yard. 452 00:29:10,130 --> 00:29:13,810 S5: And we worked at it. Um, on the other side 453 00:29:13,810 --> 00:29:17,170 S5: of the coin, I didn't realize I had so much, uh, 454 00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:19,930 S5: with my mother that I needed to forgive and work on. 455 00:29:20,210 --> 00:29:22,479 S5: I took care of both of my parents in their 456 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,560 S5: last chapter of life. They are both in heaven now. 457 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,240 S5: And it was a great privilege to do so. But 458 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,600 S5: having my mother live with me as I took care 459 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:36,320 S5: of her, I realized how much passive aggressive behavior there 460 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,480 S5: had been there, how much bad mouthing of me to 461 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,080 S5: other people over the years. It's like I was the 462 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,520 S5: person she could blame on her marriage issues and things. 463 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,800 S5: She never recognized that she'd done anything wrong. So it 464 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,040 S5: has definitely been harder. And so I want to challenge people. 465 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,240 S5: It's worth it to do the work though, because you 466 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:58,080 S5: will be at peace with God if you choose to 467 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,080 S5: forgive no matter what, whether they're still here or not. 468 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:01,680 S5: Every day. 469 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,560 S1: That is another part of the equation. I'm so glad 470 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,840 S1: you used that little four letter word w o r k. 471 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,720 S1: Forgiveness is work, and it's not a one time thing either. 472 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,520 S1: It's like I forgive did the thing. God's going to 473 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,400 S1: wipe the memory of it? No, no. It's work. You 474 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,180 S1: got to keep Forgive. It gets a day by day thing. 475 00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:27,340 S1: And that's the beauty of that whole. Oh, you've said it. Well, Mary, 476 00:30:27,540 --> 00:30:31,140 S1: thank you for calling in here today. Uh, Cindy is 477 00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:33,300 S1: on the line. Cindy, tell me why you called. 478 00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:38,700 S6: Um, I called, uh, I'm just very moved about talking 479 00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:44,380 S6: about mothers. My, uh, my mom abandoned our family, uh, 480 00:30:44,740 --> 00:30:46,860 S6: for the very last time. I was ten, and my 481 00:30:46,860 --> 00:30:50,780 S6: sister was eight, and my brother was seven, and I 482 00:30:50,780 --> 00:30:55,900 S6: didn't speak to her for 42 years. And, um, going 483 00:30:55,940 --> 00:30:59,540 S6: to pilgrimage, I had gone to a pilgrimage and, um, 484 00:31:00,060 --> 00:31:04,620 S6: Christ changed my life. And, um, I, my heart was 485 00:31:04,620 --> 00:31:08,580 S6: closed with a crowbar from ten on, like, especially to her, 486 00:31:08,620 --> 00:31:13,020 S6: particularly to my mother closed with a crowbar and I 487 00:31:13,060 --> 00:31:15,660 S6: called her up in California and I said, uh, I'd 488 00:31:15,660 --> 00:31:18,580 S6: like you to come here for a visit. And she 489 00:31:18,580 --> 00:31:24,650 S6: came and then she moved here and I and my 490 00:31:24,810 --> 00:31:29,810 S6: siblings had me. I'll speak for me my forgiveness. I 491 00:31:29,850 --> 00:31:35,450 S6: had seven wonderful years not looking for what she could 492 00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:38,770 S6: do for me or give me, but what I could 493 00:31:38,770 --> 00:31:42,330 S6: give and do for her. And she got lung cancer 494 00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:46,130 S6: after seven years, and I had the most beautiful gift 495 00:31:46,330 --> 00:31:51,370 S6: of walking my mother home. And my heart's been changed. 496 00:31:51,450 --> 00:31:56,850 S6: Heart transformation and at peace and release. I have today 497 00:31:56,850 --> 00:31:57,650 S6: in my heart. 498 00:31:58,610 --> 00:32:02,210 S1: Think of what you would have missed if you hadn't 499 00:32:02,210 --> 00:32:04,970 S1: said yes to that, and think of what she would 500 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:07,970 S1: have missed, you know, in all of that. But at 501 00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:12,250 S1: the same time, you know, 42 years, anybody listening right 502 00:32:12,250 --> 00:32:15,050 S1: now would say, well, I don't blame you. You, you 503 00:32:15,090 --> 00:32:19,590 S1: abandoned your kids, you abandoned your three kids. And and 504 00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:22,750 S1: it's not like you're not calling here, Cindy and saying, 505 00:32:22,790 --> 00:32:26,070 S1: and you know, it was just wonderful. And everything was, 506 00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:30,350 S1: you know, roses and bonbons. No, it was hard work, 507 00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:30,990 S1: wasn't it? 508 00:32:31,430 --> 00:32:36,470 S6: Mhm. Oh, yeah. I'm the oldest. My dad raised by himself, uh, 509 00:32:36,470 --> 00:32:42,590 S6: three children. And, um, no, it wasn't roses. But the 510 00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:46,030 S6: reward that I have is miraculous. 511 00:32:48,230 --> 00:32:48,990 S1: Because. 512 00:32:49,030 --> 00:32:52,030 S6: Because God gave that to us. God gave that to 513 00:32:52,070 --> 00:32:55,950 S6: me and my mom because we had the separation. Yeah. 514 00:32:56,790 --> 00:33:00,110 S1: Now, wait a minute. It sounds like your siblings might 515 00:33:00,110 --> 00:33:03,470 S1: not have been on the same page. Is that true? 516 00:33:04,510 --> 00:33:07,229 S6: They loved her and they wanted her here, but I 517 00:33:07,230 --> 00:33:11,150 S6: don't believe they had the experience I did. Um. Yeah. 518 00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:14,790 S6: With my. Which is okay. Faith. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But 519 00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:17,940 S6: but but I was, uh, how do they say it? 520 00:33:17,980 --> 00:33:19,180 S6: The Lord's example. 521 00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:25,540 S1: Which is what we're going to be remembering next week. 522 00:33:25,980 --> 00:33:30,540 S1: What he went through so that we could be redeemed, 523 00:33:30,540 --> 00:33:35,220 S1: so that we could be forgiven and made. Right? Um, 524 00:33:36,060 --> 00:33:40,020 S1: but for the joy that was set before him. What joy, 525 00:33:40,060 --> 00:33:46,300 S1: what a crucifixion is not joy. What is? No finishing 526 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:49,780 S1: the work that the father gave him to do that 527 00:33:49,780 --> 00:33:55,620 S1: he agreed to do, giving himself. Okay. Uh, Cindy, God 528 00:33:55,620 --> 00:33:59,500 S1: bless you. Somebody needed to hear what you just said. Somebody. Uh, 529 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:02,260 S1: maybe was abandoned when they were a child and heard 530 00:34:02,260 --> 00:34:05,660 S1: what you just said. And maybe they're thinking what would 531 00:34:05,660 --> 00:34:09,060 S1: happen if I opened the door just a little bit 532 00:34:09,340 --> 00:34:16,160 S1: to even considering forgiveness? Uh, Nadia said in that, answering 533 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:21,560 S1: the question, it feels weirdly satisfying, a weirdly satisfying feeling 534 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,759 S1: of freedom, even though the circumstances didn't change right away. 535 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:31,360 S1: There was peace that words cannot express. When I forgave 536 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:37,279 S1: that person who was hard to forgive. Next up is Chris. Hi, Chris. 537 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,520 S1: Great name. Hi. What do you want to say? I'm 538 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,240 S1: doing great. 539 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,080 S7: Okay. Um, so I resonate. That resonated with me when 540 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:49,040 S7: I was, uh, heard the story of that, um, gentleman. 541 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,839 S7: My father was an alcoholic and very abusive when I 542 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:57,359 S7: was younger, even into my teen years. And, um, he 543 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:04,280 S7: got sick with cancer. Sorry. Um, and he ended up 544 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:11,319 S7: passing away, but the Lord let me forgive him. And 545 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,200 S7: through the abuse and all that. But I was able 546 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,470 S7: to sit with him through cancer treatments and take him. 547 00:35:20,390 --> 00:35:24,110 S1: And if you hadn't gone through that process, there wouldn't 548 00:35:24,110 --> 00:35:27,470 S1: be the tears here today. Or at least the tears 549 00:35:27,469 --> 00:35:32,630 S1: that I'm assuming are coming from a heart of gratitude 550 00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:35,069 S1: for that relationship, right? 551 00:35:35,110 --> 00:35:43,029 S7: Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It was beneficial to me, you know, 552 00:35:43,469 --> 00:35:47,669 S7: to forgive him. And I ended up having a relationship 553 00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:49,110 S7: with him before he passed. 554 00:35:49,710 --> 00:35:55,830 S1: Yeah. And so you might be talking to somebody today 555 00:35:55,950 --> 00:35:58,669 S1: who is in a situation who may be a little 556 00:35:58,670 --> 00:36:02,509 S1: younger and this is a fresher wound than than what 557 00:36:02,510 --> 00:36:04,950 S1: you're talking about. It's like, no, my dad or my 558 00:36:04,950 --> 00:36:08,670 S1: mom or this brother or sister, whoever it is, I, 559 00:36:08,670 --> 00:36:11,189 S1: there's no way I can forgive that person. What would 560 00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:12,830 S1: you say to that person. 561 00:36:13,930 --> 00:36:18,050 S7: And I'll give it to the Lord. He. He restores 562 00:36:19,130 --> 00:36:20,210 S7: what was taken. 563 00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:28,010 S1: And he can he can do that. And I love what, uh, 564 00:36:28,010 --> 00:36:32,930 S1: Andrea or Andrea says about this on Facebook. She says, 565 00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:37,330 S1: I found freedom again. There's that word. It felt like 566 00:36:37,330 --> 00:36:40,570 S1: I was no longer a prisoner in my own mind. 567 00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:45,089 S1: The gospel became clearer, too. If God forgave me, who 568 00:36:45,090 --> 00:36:49,810 S1: am I not to forgive others? Forgiveness is trusting God 569 00:36:50,050 --> 00:36:54,530 S1: while imitating Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit 570 00:36:54,969 --> 00:37:00,410 S1: and receiving God's blessing as a result. Is that true? 571 00:37:01,410 --> 00:37:04,250 S1: Live it. Uh, let me see if I can get 572 00:37:04,290 --> 00:37:06,770 S1: Michael in before we take a break. Michael, why did 573 00:37:06,770 --> 00:37:07,530 S1: you call today? 574 00:37:08,850 --> 00:37:12,640 S8: Well, your your stories are really resonating with me, especially 575 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,919 S8: when it comes to, uh, the freedom that it that 576 00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,640 S8: it gives you once you've made that decision and that 577 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,440 S8: that's a revelation I feel like the Lord gave me 578 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:29,080 S8: was that it's a decision to forgive that you make 579 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,920 S8: over and over. We're human. I don't feel like we 580 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,680 S8: we have anywhere near the capacity to truly forgive on 581 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:42,080 S8: our own. It takes the Lord's grace, and it's a 582 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:47,160 S8: decision that we make over and over. My first name's 583 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:52,360 S8: only right. And on anonymity. Uh, I was going through 584 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,800 S8: infidelity 20, 21 years ago, and I had the choice 585 00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,239 S8: of do I scrap the entire family? Do we throw 586 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,080 S8: it up in the air and see where it lands? 587 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,439 S8: Or do I do something about it? I was a 588 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:10,439 S8: new Christian one year, uh, with the Lord, and it 589 00:38:10,540 --> 00:38:14,740 S8: just hit me that one day that, you know, you, 590 00:38:14,780 --> 00:38:21,100 S8: you make a decision to forgive somebody and you didn't 591 00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:25,660 S8: deserve to be forgiven. So there's nothing that anybody could 592 00:38:25,660 --> 00:38:31,100 S8: do that's that's worse than anything I've done. And I 593 00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:34,379 S8: could only forgive. And that's what I did. And I 594 00:38:34,460 --> 00:38:38,580 S8: kept doing it and kept doing it. And 21 years later, 595 00:38:38,620 --> 00:38:40,620 S8: I'm so grateful. 596 00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:45,860 S1: Any regrets of forgiving that person for the infidelity? 597 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:51,739 S8: No, not one second. It's been and that's something that 598 00:38:51,739 --> 00:38:55,259 S8: keeps coming up in your calls. Freedom. Yes. And that's 599 00:38:55,260 --> 00:38:59,580 S8: what it did. It freed me from all this stuff 600 00:38:59,580 --> 00:39:02,020 S8: that I was dragging around. I mean, you get so 601 00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:04,060 S8: you go through something like that and you end up 602 00:39:04,060 --> 00:39:09,100 S8: with basically PTSD. Your brain just loops and goes through 603 00:39:09,210 --> 00:39:13,210 S8: this over and over and that is what freed me. 604 00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:16,570 S8: But forgiveness given from God. 605 00:39:16,850 --> 00:39:20,970 S1: But again, it is a daily thing. You know, the 606 00:39:20,969 --> 00:39:23,890 S1: fact that you call in here today, 21 years later, 607 00:39:24,010 --> 00:39:27,250 S1: you still remember. You still remember the feelings. You still 608 00:39:27,250 --> 00:39:30,489 S1: remember the, you know, the rough time that you went 609 00:39:30,489 --> 00:39:36,010 S1: through and the forget. So remembering is not failure, but 610 00:39:36,010 --> 00:39:41,250 S1: choosing is what we're we're talking about, right? 611 00:39:41,290 --> 00:39:43,810 S8: Exactly. Yes. Yes, absolutely. 612 00:39:44,930 --> 00:39:48,810 S1: Michael, I'm so glad you called today. Thank you. Somebody 613 00:39:48,810 --> 00:39:52,969 S1: needed to hear your story at the back fence today. 614 00:39:53,770 --> 00:39:56,770 S1: I've got more callers, other folks who are talking about 615 00:39:56,770 --> 00:40:00,529 S1: the freedom that they have found. The power of forgiveness. 616 00:40:00,930 --> 00:40:05,050 S1: Doesn't that sound attractive? Is there anybody that you need 617 00:40:05,050 --> 00:40:08,390 S1: to forgive who is hard to forgive? Of more straight 618 00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:22,430 S1: ahead on Moody Radio. What happened inside when you forgave 619 00:40:22,430 --> 00:40:26,029 S1: someone who was hard to forgive? That's what we've heard 620 00:40:26,030 --> 00:40:32,150 S1: about thus far. Kathy says peace. A big weight was lifted. 621 00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:36,270 S1: Marsha says freedom from bitterness and the power to forgive 622 00:40:36,310 --> 00:40:39,310 S1: again whenever the feelings of pain well up again and 623 00:40:39,310 --> 00:40:43,069 S1: again and again. And they will. Right? Debbie says a 624 00:40:43,070 --> 00:40:47,910 S1: prisoner set free. Judy, I felt relief. I didn't feel 625 00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:52,029 S1: trapped with this hanging over me for a long time. 626 00:40:52,350 --> 00:40:55,069 S1: You know, you can live with that unforgiveness. You can 627 00:40:55,070 --> 00:40:59,350 S1: live with that bitterness, with the anger, with the contempt, 628 00:41:00,150 --> 00:41:03,870 S1: and it will do something to you. Or you can 629 00:41:03,870 --> 00:41:09,020 S1: find freedom from it. and I'm not. I know I'm 630 00:41:09,020 --> 00:41:11,540 S1: preaching to the choir and I'm preaching to myself. I'm 631 00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:14,020 S1: preaching to myself because there are things that I'm sure 632 00:41:14,020 --> 00:41:16,460 S1: that I don't even know that I'm hanging on to, 633 00:41:17,180 --> 00:41:20,180 S1: that I need to work through and people that I 634 00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:25,060 S1: need to forgive. Uh, Carol is on the line. Carol, 635 00:41:25,060 --> 00:41:25,980 S1: why did you call? 636 00:41:27,420 --> 00:41:27,820 S6: Um. 637 00:41:28,460 --> 00:41:35,260 S9: I called because my brother was murdered and dismembered and 638 00:41:36,140 --> 00:41:42,980 S9: forgiving the man who did that trauma to him. The 639 00:41:42,980 --> 00:41:48,420 S9: forgiveness process for me, my my background's labor delivery. Been 640 00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:53,500 S9: a doula and a midwife for 45 years. And God 641 00:41:53,540 --> 00:41:57,379 S9: took me back to that moment when that person was born. 642 00:41:57,380 --> 00:42:01,340 S9: None of these, none of these babies are ever born 643 00:42:01,340 --> 00:42:05,640 S9: with the intent to cause harm to somebody else. And 644 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:11,520 S9: what he showed me was this gentleman as a one 645 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,040 S9: day old baby. And how would I talk to that 646 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:19,200 S9: one day old baby? And my. The realization was what 647 00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,440 S9: happened for the day of his birth, to the day 648 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:28,760 S9: that he caused harm. And the realization to me is 649 00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,560 S9: that I look at everybody as one day old babies. 650 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,600 S9: So when you see these upsets in the world going on, 651 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,080 S9: I look at them as scared little children and they're 652 00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,880 S9: just screaming for help. They're screaming to feel safe and secure. 653 00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:51,759 S9: They're not. And it changes everything. So I go around 654 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:54,560 S9: and I share the story of forgiveness in the way 655 00:42:54,560 --> 00:43:01,160 S9: I see it. And I'm speaking in, uh, Glen Ellen 656 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:06,190 S9: next month on this very topic, But I really hope 657 00:43:06,910 --> 00:43:11,590 S9: when you really look at somebody's eyes, the eyes never 658 00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:15,950 S9: change from the day they're born to the day you die. 659 00:43:15,989 --> 00:43:17,950 S9: They are still the same eyes. 660 00:43:19,390 --> 00:43:22,190 S1: I never thought about it that way. But. But you're right. 661 00:43:22,750 --> 00:43:26,149 S1: And the and the forgiveness. I think people who push 662 00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:29,590 S1: back about. Oh, you're forgiven you. Only God can forgive. 663 00:43:29,590 --> 00:43:31,510 S1: And you are the person that was harmed. You know, 664 00:43:31,550 --> 00:43:34,750 S1: all that kind of stuff. And it's like, um, forgiveness 665 00:43:34,750 --> 00:43:40,190 S1: doesn't erase the consequences for people's actions. It doesn't, it 666 00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:44,750 S1: doesn't erase the weight that the person who committed them, 667 00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:48,469 S1: what they will carry. But that's not for you to carry. 668 00:43:48,510 --> 00:43:52,790 S1: You have to do is, is look into the eyes, 669 00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:55,790 S1: into the face, as you said of that person, and 670 00:43:55,790 --> 00:43:58,830 S1: imagine how they get there. How did they get from 671 00:43:58,830 --> 00:44:03,490 S1: where they were to, to doing that right there and 672 00:44:03,489 --> 00:44:07,890 S1: being able before God to say, I don't know that 673 00:44:07,890 --> 00:44:11,009 S1: I can do this, Lord, without your help. And you 674 00:44:11,010 --> 00:44:16,730 S1: did that. Um, Erika said on Facebook, I was actually 675 00:44:16,770 --> 00:44:22,890 S1: able to love them when I forgave this person who wasn't, uh, forgivable. 676 00:44:22,930 --> 00:44:26,090 S1: You know, she said, I didn't expect that actually being 677 00:44:26,090 --> 00:44:30,330 S1: able to love somebody that you can't forgive. Diane. It 678 00:44:30,330 --> 00:44:33,370 S1: took a while, but it felt free. It was a 679 00:44:33,370 --> 00:44:37,609 S1: weight off my mind. Stacey says freeing. And it was 680 00:44:37,610 --> 00:44:42,290 S1: only because of him, capital H that I could do it. 681 00:44:43,330 --> 00:44:49,969 S1: There is peace here, Angela says. And real freedom. And 682 00:44:49,969 --> 00:44:54,370 S1: it only comes, I think, through the power of God 683 00:44:54,370 --> 00:44:58,610 S1: at work in you. The same power that raised Jesus 684 00:44:58,610 --> 00:45:01,370 S1: from the dead. So I want to end with that 685 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:06,040 S1: song that Steven McWhirter sang for us, that we played 686 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,239 S1: when he was on here and told his story of 687 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,960 S1: forgiving his dad, who didn't deserve forgiveness, and what it 688 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:14,680 S1: did in Steven's life. I'll let this be our benediction 689 00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,560 S1: as we end today. This is Chris Fabry live reduction 690 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,640 S1: of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. 691 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:31,960 S10: Cause it might be today. The time is right now. 692 00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:43,319 S10: There's no need to wait. Know your pass will be warm. 693 00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:52,680 S10: The rivers of grace. Oh come. 694 00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,200 S11: Jesus come. 695 00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:05,620 S10: We've been waiting so long. For the day you return. 696 00:46:06,180 --> 00:46:15,540 S10: To heal every bird light every road. We need you 697 00:46:15,580 --> 00:46:27,340 S10: right now. Come and turn this around. Deep down I 698 00:46:27,340 --> 00:46:53,819 S10: know this world is on hold. Come, Jesus. Come. Lord Jesus, come. Come, come. Come, Jesus. Come.