1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:11,280 S1: Are you walking through a valley today? Some kind of loss. Disappointment? 2 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,560 S1: Life hasn't turned out like you wanted. When you get 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,840 S1: into a situation like that, it's really difficult. And then 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,320 S1: there comes a moment of grief where you have to 5 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,680 S1: handle that loss and walk through it, and you wonder 6 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,279 S1: if you're going to make it to the other side. 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,280 S1: That's where you are once you listen today. But what 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,720 S1: if in the middle of your own struggle, you need 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,200 S1: to help your young son or daughter go through that grief? 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,840 S1: So you have to deal with what you feel, as 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,360 S1: well as help the child grapple with the loss and struggle. 12 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,520 S1: That's exactly what happened to our guest today on Chris 13 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,760 S1: Fabry Live. Allison's going to tell her story, and the 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,400 S1: pain and heartache in the dark nights of the soul 15 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,680 S1: led her to fashion a children's book to help others 16 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,920 S1: with the comfort that she had received. And the book 17 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,800 S1: just won an award recently, and I'm guessing there is 18 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,840 S1: someone listening today who needs to hear about the truth 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:11,240 S1: that he meaning God, he always hears. We're going to 20 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,119 S1: talk about it straight ahead on the program, from the 21 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,760 S1: heart to the heart for the heart. Let's get going 22 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,959 S1: with a thank you to our team. Ryan McConaughey's doing 23 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:22,120 S1: all things technical, although Lisa is is helping out today, 24 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,960 S1: all things technical. Tricia is our producer. Josh will be 25 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,600 S1: answering your calls. And if you haven't heard two things. 26 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,959 S1: If you haven't heard, the book club is back. Rosie's 27 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:34,200 S1: book Club commences in less than two weeks, June 16th. 28 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,440 S1: Be there, be square. And our first book is the 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,920 S1: one she began the Midday Book Club with. I think 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,479 S1: it was more than 20 years ago, Shane by Jack Schaefer, 31 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,360 S1: and I've seen questions. How do you become part of 32 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,000 S1: the book club? What are the dues? Where do I 33 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,440 S1: need to go? No dues. Just find a copy of Shane. 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,200 S1: You can find it at your library. You can buy 35 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,790 S1: it online, get it? You know, from Uncle Fred, who 36 00:01:58,790 --> 00:02:02,710 S1: read Westerns when he was a kid, read Shane by 37 00:02:02,710 --> 00:02:05,670 S1: the 16th and then join us for a really fun 38 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:08,070 S1: conversation on that Tuesday. It's not going to be half 39 00:02:08,070 --> 00:02:10,030 S1: as much fun if you don't join us. And you've 40 00:02:10,030 --> 00:02:12,830 S1: read Shane. So that's the first thing. The second thing 41 00:02:12,830 --> 00:02:15,910 S1: is our thank you, if you support us in June, 42 00:02:16,310 --> 00:02:19,989 S1: gives honor to a hero named Doctor John Perkins. For 43 00:02:19,990 --> 00:02:24,310 S1: most of Doctor Perkins adult life, he asked this question 44 00:02:24,310 --> 00:02:28,590 S1: what if the church led the way in healing the 45 00:02:28,590 --> 00:02:33,550 S1: racial divide? In his book One Blood, he shares his 46 00:02:33,550 --> 00:02:36,790 S1: parting words to the body of Christ. And it's a 47 00:02:36,790 --> 00:02:40,470 S1: powerful call to reconciliation rooted in what the Bible says 48 00:02:40,470 --> 00:02:43,030 S1: about us. We are one blood. How do we live 49 00:02:43,030 --> 00:02:45,230 S1: that out? I want to send you a copy of 50 00:02:45,230 --> 00:02:48,270 S1: this legacy book by Doctor John Perkins. Request your copy 51 00:02:48,270 --> 00:02:52,510 S1: with a gift of any amount. Call 86695, Faber. You 52 00:02:52,510 --> 00:03:00,829 S1: can give that way. 2279 or go to Chris Fabry live.org. 53 00:03:01,030 --> 00:03:07,990 S1: FABRY Chris Fabry live dot ORG. I really believe the 54 00:03:07,990 --> 00:03:11,110 S1: wound can be a place of healing. I've seen this 55 00:03:11,110 --> 00:03:12,870 S1: over and over and over and over and over. The 56 00:03:12,870 --> 00:03:15,150 S1: wound in your life can be a place of healing 57 00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:18,990 S1: for your own heart, and then that healing can spread 58 00:03:18,990 --> 00:03:21,150 S1: out to others. And I think that is what has 59 00:03:21,150 --> 00:03:25,670 S1: happened to Allison Punzi. She's a graduate of Cedarville University. 60 00:03:25,990 --> 00:03:29,950 S1: She's now an award winning author. She's passionate about discipleship 61 00:03:29,950 --> 00:03:34,630 S1: and theology. She writes about lament, grief, and single motherhood. 62 00:03:34,990 --> 00:03:38,110 S1: She and her daughter, Lois, live in Ohio and are featured. 63 00:03:38,110 --> 00:03:41,869 S1: Resource is. He always hears a story of loss and 64 00:03:41,870 --> 00:03:45,710 S1: the hope of things made new. Allison, welcome to the program. 65 00:03:45,710 --> 00:03:46,710 S1: How are you doing today? 66 00:03:47,430 --> 00:03:49,150 S2: I'm doing well. Thank you so much for having me. 67 00:03:49,150 --> 00:03:49,870 S2: It's a pleasure. 68 00:03:50,110 --> 00:03:52,230 S1: Did I get your I forgot to ask you before 69 00:03:52,230 --> 00:03:55,779 S1: we went on, is. Did I say that correctly? Ponzi? 70 00:03:56,460 --> 00:03:57,540 S2: Yes, yes. 71 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,780 S1: You're not going to correct me, but there's something I'm 72 00:04:00,780 --> 00:04:02,260 S1: doing right. It's not easy. 73 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:04,500 S3: No. You're good. That's how. That's how. That's how I 74 00:04:04,540 --> 00:04:05,300 S3: say Ponzi. 75 00:04:05,340 --> 00:04:07,940 S2: I admit I'm not the Italian one. That's for my 76 00:04:07,940 --> 00:04:11,500 S2: Italian husband, so I don't give it the flair it's due. 77 00:04:11,500 --> 00:04:14,540 S2: But I have been told that it's acceptable, okay? 78 00:04:14,580 --> 00:04:18,020 S1: It's acceptable, I feel, I feel good, I feel affirmed, okay. 79 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:20,979 S1: Did you expect this? This is. Let me read this. 80 00:04:20,980 --> 00:04:25,220 S1: The Evangelical Christian Publishers Association has named Alison Ponzi, the 81 00:04:25,220 --> 00:04:29,260 S1: 2026 Christian Book Award winner in the New Author category 82 00:04:29,260 --> 00:04:32,540 S1: for her debut title. He always hears. Was that a 83 00:04:32,540 --> 00:04:33,460 S1: surprise to you? 84 00:04:34,220 --> 00:04:38,140 S2: Complete. Complete surprise. I was not expecting it at all. 85 00:04:38,140 --> 00:04:39,979 S2: I was I was shocked to hear that I was 86 00:04:39,980 --> 00:04:42,940 S2: a finalist, and to me that was the win. Um, 87 00:04:42,940 --> 00:04:45,700 S2: and so then to, to, to be named the winner 88 00:04:45,700 --> 00:04:48,380 S2: was just totally, totally surprise. 89 00:04:49,140 --> 00:04:52,420 S1: I think I know why, and it's because of what 90 00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:57,420 S1: I just mentioned before. it's you've gone in a children's book, 91 00:04:57,460 --> 00:04:59,140 S1: you know, in a book that you could read to 92 00:04:59,180 --> 00:05:03,740 S1: your four, five, six year old up to 11 or 12. 93 00:05:03,740 --> 00:05:07,219 S1: I would I would assume you can read this and 94 00:05:07,220 --> 00:05:12,979 S1: get to several levels of depth about grief and lament, right? 95 00:05:14,020 --> 00:05:17,260 S2: Yeah. I wrote it intentionally with a lot of dimension 96 00:05:17,260 --> 00:05:21,860 S2: and a lot of, uh, specific broadness, um, that families 97 00:05:21,860 --> 00:05:25,060 S2: could read it in a lot of different circumstances, but 98 00:05:25,060 --> 00:05:27,940 S2: also just, there are a lot of theological layers there 99 00:05:27,940 --> 00:05:31,620 S2: that can be unpacked as kids grow up. 100 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:35,859 S1: Yes. Okay. So tell me about Frank. Let's start with Frank. 101 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:36,980 S1: Tell me his story. 102 00:05:38,100 --> 00:05:40,820 S2: Yeah. So I met him when we were working as 103 00:05:40,820 --> 00:05:44,300 S2: camp counselors. We were both still in college, and, you know, 104 00:05:44,339 --> 00:05:46,659 S2: we worked well together. Uh, and we had a lot 105 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:52,180 S2: of fun. Um, we kept getting assigned to doing canoeing together. Um, and, 106 00:05:53,020 --> 00:05:54,780 S2: You know, I think we were doing that multiple times 107 00:05:54,779 --> 00:05:57,740 S2: a week anyway. So I knew we made a good team. 108 00:05:57,779 --> 00:06:00,420 S2: We were both Cedarville students. So when we got back 109 00:06:00,420 --> 00:06:05,659 S2: to campus, um, before long we started dating. Um, and 110 00:06:05,660 --> 00:06:10,219 S2: then long story short, uh, when he graduated, he took 111 00:06:10,220 --> 00:06:13,380 S2: a pastoral job at a church about 30 minutes away. 112 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:16,860 S2: And so he was the youth and worship pastor. Um, 113 00:06:16,860 --> 00:06:19,940 S2: and this was during 2020 that he took that job. 114 00:06:19,940 --> 00:06:22,940 S2: And then we moved and also had our daughter. So 115 00:06:22,940 --> 00:06:27,380 S2: there was a lot of things in during the global pandemic. Um, 116 00:06:28,420 --> 00:06:31,580 S2: I wouldn't recommend doing all of those things all at once. Um, 117 00:06:31,940 --> 00:06:36,420 S2: but he just had a passion for telling these kids, um, 118 00:06:36,460 --> 00:06:39,420 S2: that like about God's love, about Christ's love and how 119 00:06:39,420 --> 00:06:42,140 S2: he demonstrated that love on the cross by, by dying 120 00:06:42,140 --> 00:06:44,540 S2: in their place. And, um, then in him they could 121 00:06:44,540 --> 00:06:47,660 S2: have the hope of eternal life. And that's what motivated 122 00:06:47,660 --> 00:06:50,300 S2: him every day. And, you know, we, we set out 123 00:06:50,300 --> 00:06:52,730 S2: to raise our family in a home that proclaimed that 124 00:06:52,730 --> 00:06:56,330 S2: gospel to one another and to our kids. And, um, 125 00:06:56,529 --> 00:07:00,530 S2: and so it was extremely shocking. Um, two years later 126 00:07:00,770 --> 00:07:03,570 S2: when he suffered a sudden stroke, which led to a 127 00:07:03,570 --> 00:07:07,570 S2: cancer diagnosis. Um, and then only two months later suddenly 128 00:07:07,570 --> 00:07:11,650 S2: passed away of cancer induced stroke. Um, our daughter was 129 00:07:11,650 --> 00:07:13,930 S2: only two at the time. And so it really felt 130 00:07:13,930 --> 00:07:16,490 S2: like we were only kind of scratching the surface of 131 00:07:16,490 --> 00:07:19,490 S2: what ministry life would look like. What, what, what would 132 00:07:19,530 --> 00:07:23,290 S2: our family, um, what would our family look like to, 133 00:07:23,570 --> 00:07:27,730 S2: to kind of proclaim the gospel and do ministry together? Um, before, uh, 134 00:07:27,770 --> 00:07:30,890 S2: tragedy kind of reshaped everything for us. 135 00:07:31,490 --> 00:07:31,810 S3: Oh. 136 00:07:32,610 --> 00:07:35,650 S1: Oh, the loss, you know what you just said in 137 00:07:35,650 --> 00:07:39,570 S1: those two minutes right there would take a lifetime to 138 00:07:39,610 --> 00:07:42,610 S1: unpack with all of the just with you, with all 139 00:07:42,650 --> 00:07:45,650 S1: of the questions that you had, you know, God, where 140 00:07:45,690 --> 00:07:49,650 S1: are you? Do you hear me? Um, and then you've 141 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:55,210 S1: got to kind of pull up your, you put on 142 00:07:55,250 --> 00:08:00,210 S1: your your rain slicker, you know, with all the tears 143 00:08:00,530 --> 00:08:04,570 S1: that you are shedding and you've got to help your daughter. 144 00:08:05,010 --> 00:08:07,130 S1: And that really is what, where the book came from, 145 00:08:07,130 --> 00:08:07,690 S1: isn't it? 146 00:08:08,610 --> 00:08:11,090 S2: Yeah. I mean, I, we were, we hit my husband 147 00:08:11,090 --> 00:08:13,530 S2: and I are both Bible majors and, you know, we 148 00:08:13,530 --> 00:08:15,730 S2: had done, you know, we knew we knew the word. 149 00:08:15,730 --> 00:08:18,130 S2: We knew how to study the word. When he was sick. 150 00:08:18,130 --> 00:08:23,730 S2: We had been reading through lament Psalms and learning about laminin. 151 00:08:23,730 --> 00:08:28,050 S2: It was such a comfort for our own hearts. Um, and, 152 00:08:28,450 --> 00:08:31,010 S2: but because our daughter was only two, it's not like 153 00:08:31,010 --> 00:08:35,050 S2: we sat her down and really explained what was going on. Um, 154 00:08:35,530 --> 00:08:38,770 S2: in a way, she kind of was naive and ignorant 155 00:08:38,770 --> 00:08:40,690 S2: of all of those things. She knew things were different. 156 00:08:40,690 --> 00:08:43,610 S2: She knew that, you know, her dad was sick. Um, 157 00:08:44,370 --> 00:08:47,130 S2: but all of a sudden, you know, then I was 158 00:08:47,170 --> 00:08:49,490 S2: kind of thrust into this position where I'm like, okay, 159 00:08:49,530 --> 00:08:51,329 S2: not only do I have to like explain to her 160 00:08:51,330 --> 00:08:54,410 S2: what has happened the last two months, but also help 161 00:08:54,410 --> 00:08:56,689 S2: her understand what does it mean that her dad died? 162 00:08:57,370 --> 00:09:00,810 S2: And I learned that it's not about like telling your 163 00:09:00,809 --> 00:09:04,530 S2: child something so horrible as like their dad has died, 164 00:09:04,650 --> 00:09:08,330 S2: but really teaching them over a long, long haul. Um, 165 00:09:08,330 --> 00:09:09,850 S2: I mean, even just a couple of weeks ago, my 166 00:09:09,850 --> 00:09:14,050 S2: daughter's almost six now, and she, she was like, mom, 167 00:09:14,050 --> 00:09:16,570 S2: I have some questions. And, you know, I would answer 168 00:09:16,570 --> 00:09:21,170 S2: her questions and very just concrete questions, things just she 169 00:09:21,170 --> 00:09:24,650 S2: doesn't remember things she doesn't understand about cancer. And, you know, 170 00:09:24,690 --> 00:09:26,530 S2: I answered them, but even then she's like, okay, I 171 00:09:26,530 --> 00:09:28,449 S2: have a few more questions. And I think that's going 172 00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:30,850 S2: to be it for the rest of her life, for 173 00:09:30,850 --> 00:09:33,089 S2: the rest of my life. It's just this constantly going 174 00:09:33,090 --> 00:09:37,650 S2: back to, um, what did God bring us through? What happened? 175 00:09:37,690 --> 00:09:40,089 S2: You know, let's like understand that as best we can 176 00:09:40,090 --> 00:09:43,329 S2: without trying to presume that we understand all the intricacies 177 00:09:43,330 --> 00:09:48,080 S2: of God's will. Um, but also talk honestly about how 178 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,040 S2: horrible that was. Answer questions the best I can and 179 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,880 S2: then and bring her to God. Especially when she asks 180 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,680 S2: questions that I don't have answers to. And so really, 181 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,440 S2: this book kind of came out of like, okay, it's 182 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,880 S2: not just that I want her to understand what happened 183 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,480 S2: to her dad. I want her to understand, lament. I 184 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,280 S2: want her to understand how to cry out to God himself, 185 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,480 S2: especially when I can't promise her anything about this life. 186 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,400 S2: And so that's kind of where this book came from, 187 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,400 S2: because I couldn't find one that was about lament, specifically 188 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,120 S2: lots on grief, lots on death. But I wanted one 189 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,720 S2: on lament because I wanted her to be able to 190 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,640 S2: grow up with that. I didn't want it to be 191 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,400 S2: something that she learned later in life. I wanted her 192 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:29,800 S2: to have it as she grew. 193 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:33,440 S1: I love it, I love it, and I hate it 194 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,880 S1: at the same time that we have to lament because 195 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:42,120 S1: it shows the chasm of the heart. But this wound, 196 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,360 S1: the two of you. And that's that's where to me, 197 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,360 S1: this The power of this is that you have to 198 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,640 S1: do the work yourself of lament and to go there, 199 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,240 S1: but simultaneously help her do that and do it in 200 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,440 S1: a very quick way. Because of the the brevity of 201 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,320 S1: the time that you had to kind of work through 202 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,320 S1: the end of life issues with Frank, with your husband. Okay. 203 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,440 S1: So I call a time out here. We're going to 204 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,760 S1: come back. And if you're listening today and this is 205 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,199 S1: exactly where you are, I want you to call us 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:16,760 S1: and share a little bit of your story and maybe 207 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:19,440 S1: a question that you have about how do I talk 208 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:24,240 S1: about this? How do I authentically walk through this grief 209 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:32,160 S1: and and lament in my life with a child? Eight, seven, 75483675. 210 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,040 S1: But I guarantee you, there's somebody in your family, there's 211 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,600 S1: somebody in your neighborhood, there's somebody in your church who 212 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:43,440 S1: needs to hear this message. He always hears a story 213 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,590 S1: of loss and the hope of things made new. It's 214 00:11:46,590 --> 00:11:50,990 S1: our featured resource today. It is a children's book, but 215 00:11:50,990 --> 00:11:54,590 S1: parents can gain from it as well. Parents may gain 216 00:11:54,590 --> 00:11:57,590 S1: more than the kids will. He always hears. Just go to. 217 00:11:57,630 --> 00:12:03,310 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Chris Fabry live.org. More straight ahead on 218 00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:16,830 S1: Moody Radio. It's Allison week on Chris Fabry Live. Allison 219 00:12:16,830 --> 00:12:19,709 S1: Bixby is going to be with us tomorrow, and she's 220 00:12:19,710 --> 00:12:23,990 S1: going to talk about journaling, the spiritual practice of journaling. 221 00:12:23,990 --> 00:12:27,950 S1: And I think Allison Punzi, who's with us today, will 222 00:12:27,950 --> 00:12:30,750 S1: also have something to say about that. Her book, the 223 00:12:30,750 --> 00:12:35,429 S1: award winning book, he always hears a story of loss 224 00:12:35,429 --> 00:12:38,590 S1: and the hope of things made new is our featured resource. 225 00:12:38,590 --> 00:12:42,790 S1: It won the 2026 Christian Book Award for debut book 226 00:12:43,150 --> 00:12:48,710 S1: by Allison, whose name is spelled with a YALYSON. So 227 00:12:49,070 --> 00:12:52,110 S1: do you know why your parents decided to to use 228 00:12:52,110 --> 00:12:52,910 S1: that spelling? 229 00:12:54,309 --> 00:12:57,590 S2: Uh, my mom likes how it looks, which I do, too, 230 00:12:57,790 --> 00:13:00,070 S2: but she just looked prettier with a Y. 231 00:13:00,230 --> 00:13:01,670 S4: Yes. No. It's good. 232 00:13:02,030 --> 00:13:05,030 S1: Uh, and Allison Bixby spells it differently. We'll talk with 233 00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:09,069 S1: her tomorrow. Do you agree that did journaling help you 234 00:13:09,070 --> 00:13:11,870 S1: in your own journey of grief and lament? 235 00:13:13,510 --> 00:13:16,350 S2: Um, I don't know if I did a ton of 236 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:20,910 S2: journaling necessarily. I journaled a lot of prayers. Um, and 237 00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:23,830 S2: my husband journaled his prayers when he was in the hospital. 238 00:13:23,830 --> 00:13:26,550 S2: So that's quite a treasure for me to be able 239 00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:28,910 S2: to see in his own hand what he was praying 240 00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:31,950 S2: for at the time when he was going through treatment. Um, 241 00:13:32,110 --> 00:13:34,989 S2: and then the only other journaling I've really done is 242 00:13:35,270 --> 00:13:38,390 S2: journaling for my daughter. Um, especially in those early days, 243 00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:40,670 S2: I would journal kind of how she was processing what 244 00:13:40,670 --> 00:13:44,230 S2: was going on, knowing that she wouldn't remember that I 245 00:13:44,230 --> 00:13:45,710 S2: wanted her to be able to look back and have 246 00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:47,950 S2: some sort of record on the questions that she was 247 00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:52,110 S2: asking her memories at the time. Again, knowing that those 248 00:13:52,110 --> 00:13:54,510 S2: were going to fade. I wanted some some sort of 249 00:13:54,510 --> 00:13:57,990 S2: record for her, but those were probably all I did 250 00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:58,990 S2: journaling wise. 251 00:13:59,470 --> 00:14:02,630 S1: Since it was so fast then. What did was she 252 00:14:02,670 --> 00:14:05,390 S1: able to go to the hospital? Was she able to 253 00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:08,590 S1: hug her dad and see her dad there? 254 00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:10,670 S3: Yes. Uh. 255 00:14:11,150 --> 00:14:15,710 S2: On all except we were at three different hospitals. Um, 256 00:14:15,710 --> 00:14:18,310 S2: but the and except for that first one, she was 257 00:14:18,309 --> 00:14:21,310 S2: allowed in the hospital kind of at every stage, um, 258 00:14:21,310 --> 00:14:23,750 S2: which was such a blessing. Um, even in the ICU, 259 00:14:23,790 --> 00:14:25,750 S2: he was in the ICU just for four days very 260 00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:28,550 S2: fast at the end. And they made exceptions to allow 261 00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:30,110 S2: her because this was still at the tail end of 262 00:14:30,110 --> 00:14:32,870 S2: the pandemic. So, um, there was still a lot of 263 00:14:32,870 --> 00:14:36,190 S2: regulation around who could be in the hospital. Um, but 264 00:14:36,190 --> 00:14:39,190 S2: she was allowed to come in and she visited every day. Um, 265 00:14:39,190 --> 00:14:44,180 S2: we tried a lot of different childcare options. She ended 266 00:14:44,180 --> 00:14:47,780 S2: up just kind of living with my parents who, um, lived, 267 00:14:47,900 --> 00:14:50,739 S2: lived close to us for that summer. And my parents 268 00:14:50,740 --> 00:14:53,140 S2: would drive her, my parents or a sibling would drive 269 00:14:53,140 --> 00:14:55,740 S2: her to the hospital every day. Um, so they, we 270 00:14:55,780 --> 00:14:57,900 S2: have lots of pictures of her in the hospital, coloring, 271 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:01,900 S2: watching movies, eating food. And, um, so there's a lot 272 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:04,580 S2: of happy photos, which I'm grateful she gets to look 273 00:15:04,580 --> 00:15:05,260 S2: back on that. 274 00:15:05,740 --> 00:15:08,700 S1: But Frank, your husband was a pastor, right? 275 00:15:08,740 --> 00:15:09,260 S3: Mhm. 276 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:13,460 S1: Okay. Yes. This was not on his radar. This was 277 00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:15,100 S1: not supposed to happen. 278 00:15:16,060 --> 00:15:19,100 S2: No. And it was looking back, there were he made 279 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:22,020 S2: had started making several comments, like at the beginning of 280 00:15:22,060 --> 00:15:24,500 S2: that year of like, oh, I'm getting so old. Um, 281 00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:26,700 S2: because like, I can't keep up with these youth kids 282 00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:29,380 S2: as much as I could have, you know, playing football 283 00:15:29,420 --> 00:15:31,620 S2: because I mean, he was out there playing basketball, football, 284 00:15:31,660 --> 00:15:35,260 S2: all the things. Um, and looking back, his, his body 285 00:15:35,260 --> 00:15:38,420 S2: probably was already being weakened by the cancer. We didn't 286 00:15:38,420 --> 00:15:41,580 S2: know he had. Um, but that was something that I. 287 00:15:41,980 --> 00:15:43,740 S2: A lot of people in our church struggled with of 288 00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:48,100 S2: just like, why Frank? Um, and because it's like, well, this, 289 00:15:48,100 --> 00:15:51,260 S2: this young pastor who's, you know, so adored by his 290 00:15:51,260 --> 00:15:54,940 S2: congregation and his youth. And, um, so it's a lot, 291 00:15:54,980 --> 00:15:57,740 S2: it's very easy to be like, well, why, why him? Um, 292 00:15:57,740 --> 00:16:00,020 S2: and his response to that whole thing was like, why 293 00:16:00,060 --> 00:16:03,060 S2: not me? You know, I'm not that special. And if 294 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:05,060 S2: God is going to allow this into my life, like 295 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:07,380 S2: I still trust that he is working for his glory 296 00:16:07,380 --> 00:16:10,580 S2: and my good. And you know, I'm not big enough 297 00:16:10,580 --> 00:16:13,380 S2: to stop what he's going to do. And so that 298 00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:15,740 S2: was a, you know, a comfort for me. And I 299 00:16:15,740 --> 00:16:17,260 S2: think a lot of other people in our church to 300 00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:21,860 S2: hear his perspective, even as he was going through it. Um, yeah. 301 00:16:22,820 --> 00:16:24,780 S1: As I'm listening to you and this is the first 302 00:16:24,780 --> 00:16:27,540 S1: time that I'm meeting you, I've been talking with you 303 00:16:27,540 --> 00:16:29,980 S1: for about a half hour, ten minutes before the program 304 00:16:29,980 --> 00:16:33,220 S1: and right now, but here is what I'm picking up. 305 00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:37,420 S1: Frank would be so proud of you for the way. 306 00:16:37,460 --> 00:16:40,740 S1: Not because you did everything you know exactly right. And, 307 00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:44,980 S1: you know, honored him and honored Jesus and all of that. 308 00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:50,380 S1: But you just walk through this with an authenticity that 309 00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:54,140 S1: I'm picking up. Uh, and, and you wanted to be 310 00:16:54,140 --> 00:16:57,820 S1: real not only for the people around you and for 311 00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:02,580 S1: your daughter, but you just wanted to live. Uh, you 312 00:17:02,740 --> 00:17:05,660 S1: wanted to live authentically. Is that true? 313 00:17:06,980 --> 00:17:09,540 S2: Yeah, I, I know that he, he would be my 314 00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:13,620 S2: biggest cheerleader. He, he was such a dreamer. And he, 315 00:17:13,980 --> 00:17:16,540 S2: he would always talk about all the big things that 316 00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:20,300 S2: he thought me and my daughter would go on to accomplish. Um, 317 00:17:20,300 --> 00:17:22,700 S2: and I, you know, I would joke and be like, uh, 318 00:17:22,740 --> 00:17:26,060 S2: you know, whatever. Um, but I, I know that he 319 00:17:26,060 --> 00:17:30,420 S2: would be, would be so proud and so excited, um, 320 00:17:30,820 --> 00:17:33,820 S2: with kind of the life we're living and it's bittersweet, um, 321 00:17:33,820 --> 00:17:36,889 S2: because we had dreams as a family. And so there's 322 00:17:36,890 --> 00:17:40,210 S2: also it's called secondary grief, where like you lose, you know, 323 00:17:40,250 --> 00:17:43,010 S2: this main, main thing, like I lost my husband. But 324 00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:45,810 S2: then there's also these other things that have also I've 325 00:17:45,850 --> 00:17:49,250 S2: also lost, I've lost ministry. You know, we were doing 326 00:17:49,250 --> 00:17:53,090 S2: ministry together and I lost that ministry when he died. 327 00:17:53,090 --> 00:17:56,010 S2: And there's other things, you know, the loss of dreams 328 00:17:56,010 --> 00:17:59,370 S2: that we had as a married couple that I will 329 00:17:59,369 --> 00:18:02,850 S2: not get. And so, you know, it's, it's, it's bittersweet 330 00:18:02,850 --> 00:18:04,649 S2: because I know he'd be so proud of all the 331 00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:06,970 S2: things we've been able to do, even just the two 332 00:18:06,970 --> 00:18:09,130 S2: of us, me and my daughter. But, you know, it's, 333 00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:11,490 S2: it's still a loss of like, oh, we're doing this 334 00:18:11,690 --> 00:18:14,050 S2: because we're not doing something else that, you know, we 335 00:18:14,090 --> 00:18:15,850 S2: once dreamed of doing together. 336 00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:16,690 S4: Yes. 337 00:18:17,090 --> 00:18:21,209 S1: And, and in that, you have to live fully in 338 00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:23,609 S1: the loss. That's part of the lament, isn't it? 339 00:18:24,490 --> 00:18:28,010 S2: Yeah. And I lament one of the characteristics of, of 340 00:18:28,010 --> 00:18:33,130 S2: lament is juxtaposition, because we're holding multiple things that are 341 00:18:33,130 --> 00:18:35,929 S2: true at the same time. We're both being very honest 342 00:18:35,930 --> 00:18:37,850 S2: about that. This is not the way that God made 343 00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:41,370 S2: our world to be, and we can express deep pain. 344 00:18:41,410 --> 00:18:44,890 S2: The Bible gives us those examples. Jesus himself does that, 345 00:18:45,130 --> 00:18:47,170 S2: but we're also not doing that at the expense of 346 00:18:47,170 --> 00:18:49,170 S2: holding on to hope about what we know is true 347 00:18:49,170 --> 00:18:52,970 S2: about God and His character. And so, you know, we can. 348 00:18:53,130 --> 00:18:55,570 S2: And so like what I said about those, those dreams 349 00:18:55,570 --> 00:18:58,330 S2: and life experiences, you know, I'm praising God. I'm grateful. 350 00:18:58,330 --> 00:19:00,330 S2: I'm thankful for all of the things that we've been 351 00:19:00,330 --> 00:19:03,729 S2: able to do. And I'm still grieving and lamenting the 352 00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:07,330 S2: loss of what I had hoped previously for our life. 353 00:19:07,330 --> 00:19:10,410 S2: And holding those both together is where lament helps us 354 00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:15,090 S2: continue to live life hoping in Christ through really hard things. 355 00:19:16,970 --> 00:19:21,690 S1: I want to read you something from Spurgeon that I've 356 00:19:21,690 --> 00:19:25,730 S1: been going through. His look at the Psalms, and in 357 00:19:25,730 --> 00:19:31,490 S1: this Psalm it says his response, for the Lord hath 358 00:19:31,490 --> 00:19:36,120 S1: heard the voice of my weeping, And he says, in 359 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:41,200 S1: what language does. Do we utter its meaning, this word, 360 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,200 S1: the weeping in the. In that universal tongue which is 361 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:46,320 S1: known and understood in all the earth and even in 362 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,440 S1: heaven above, weeping is the eloquence of sorrow. It is 363 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:57,080 S1: an stammering orator, needing no interpreter, but understood of all. 364 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,840 S1: Is it not sweet to believe that our tears are 365 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,680 S1: understood even when words fail? And then here's, here's what 366 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:09,240 S1: I underline. Let us learn to think of tears as 367 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,560 S1: liquid prayers, and of weeping as a constant dropping of 368 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:21,600 S1: important intercession, importunate intercession which will wear its way right 369 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,440 S1: surely into the very heart of mercy, despite the stony 370 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,040 S1: difficulties which obstruct the way. Now, that's, you know, a 371 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:35,400 S1: very a long sentence. But that liquid prayers really struck me. 372 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,400 S1: Did you feel that your prayers, your tears were liquid prayers? 373 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,280 S2: Oh yeah. And I think one of the things that 374 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,280 S2: that lament is also helpful is it doesn't require nice 375 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,440 S2: and tidy prayers. And oftentimes the most faithful prayers in 376 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,960 S2: those moments of incredible pain and hurt is it's just 377 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,320 S2: fragmentary and it's just pieces. It could just be a 378 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,280 S2: single word of, you know, help, but it's directed to God. 379 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,959 S2: And I think that is what is so powerful is 380 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:09,360 S2: like even these tears, even this weeping, even these fragmented 381 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,120 S2: prayers are directed to the God who has proven himself 382 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:14,400 S2: over and over and over to be a God who 383 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,840 S2: hears his people and hears their cries. Um, and I 384 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,720 S2: think that is incredibly comforting. I think it's also helpful 385 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,960 S2: as we're trying to help one another, you know, whether 386 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:29,679 S2: that's friends or our children, because then entering their grief 387 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,280 S2: with them doesn't mean that we have to go in 388 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,640 S2: with super nice and tidy prayers or reasons or explanations. 389 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,280 S2: We can just go sit with them and cry with them. 390 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,960 S2: And I think that's very freeing because in those moments, 391 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,000 S2: like these are these are moments for crying out to 392 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:47,960 S2: the Lord. These aren't for kind of explaining what he's 393 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,280 S2: doing because likely we're going to get that wrong. I 394 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,560 S2: think job's friends are a good warning for us there. Um, 395 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,440 S2: but yeah, these it's a particular kind of, of crying 396 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,359 S2: out to the Lord that is so sweet and precious. Um, 397 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,600 S2: when as we continue to live life on this side 398 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:04,200 S2: of heaven. 399 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,639 S1: How long were you and Frank married? 400 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,600 S2: We were married for four years. 401 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,200 S1: Four. Okay, so it was four years. So fast. 402 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,680 S5: So fast. 403 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:18,000 S1: And then. And then you become a single mom. It's 404 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,119 S1: like that wasn't that wasn't on your radar. 405 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,000 S3: Not the. 406 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,760 S2: Plan, not the plan at all. And that has been in, 407 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,270 S2: in some ways that has been a unique thing. I 408 00:22:30,310 --> 00:22:33,550 S2: feel like sometimes being a single mom and being a widow, 409 00:22:33,790 --> 00:22:36,750 S2: that's like a different type of grief in my head sometimes, 410 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:40,469 S2: and different life experiences that I continue to navigate, you know? 411 00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:44,230 S2: What does that look like in church, in her school system, uh, 412 00:22:44,350 --> 00:22:48,070 S2: in our community. How do I navigate not having a parent? 413 00:22:49,710 --> 00:22:52,830 S1: Exactly. Do you watch the wedding? Do you have a 414 00:22:52,830 --> 00:22:55,430 S1: video of the wedding that you watch with Lois? 415 00:22:56,150 --> 00:23:00,109 S3: Uh, I have I do have a video. We have watched. 416 00:23:00,109 --> 00:23:02,949 S2: It. We haven't watched it recently, though. Yeah, we have 417 00:23:02,950 --> 00:23:05,629 S2: lots of pictures. We're really into picture books, right, though? 418 00:23:06,109 --> 00:23:06,550 S5: Yeah. 419 00:23:06,990 --> 00:23:10,510 S1: Well, and and this. And I'm thinking of of Lois 420 00:23:10,510 --> 00:23:15,590 S1: at two. What were the questions that she asked? Uh, 421 00:23:15,590 --> 00:23:18,830 S1: as as Frank was kind of slipping away and then 422 00:23:18,830 --> 00:23:22,630 S1: passed away. What? And and that's the other question. What 423 00:23:22,630 --> 00:23:25,590 S1: kind of words do you use? Do you use death? 424 00:23:25,630 --> 00:23:29,070 S1: Do you use pass away. That that feels a little 425 00:23:29,070 --> 00:23:33,510 S1: easier to say. And yet the truth is, Frank's no 426 00:23:33,510 --> 00:23:35,150 S1: longer living, right? 427 00:23:35,230 --> 00:23:39,669 S2: Mhm. Yeah, that's a big. I did so much research. 428 00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:43,150 S2: I'm a researcher, so that fit my personality. But I 429 00:23:43,150 --> 00:23:45,750 S2: did a lot of reading on kind of what do 430 00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:48,629 S2: we know about kids brains and what they can process. 431 00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:52,709 S2: And everyone, everyone agrees that you have to use the 432 00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:56,189 S2: words death and dying and dying. Um, we were in 433 00:23:56,190 --> 00:24:00,550 S2: a unique situation in that, uh, everyone, the doctors thought 434 00:24:00,550 --> 00:24:04,709 S2: that my husband was going to recover, um, basically about 435 00:24:04,750 --> 00:24:09,149 S2: until 36 hours before he died. So our, our, it 436 00:24:09,150 --> 00:24:11,390 S2: just was so fast at the end. It's a very 437 00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:15,470 S2: unique situation where like cancer is often a slow, slow, 438 00:24:15,470 --> 00:24:20,510 S2: progressive death. Um, but, and ours was that his death 439 00:24:20,510 --> 00:24:24,709 S2: was slow and also so fast and unexpected because they 440 00:24:24,710 --> 00:24:28,550 S2: really thought he was going to Survive until literally the 441 00:24:28,550 --> 00:24:31,510 S2: very end. So I don't I don't even think we 442 00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:33,869 S2: really talked with her about what was happening as it 443 00:24:33,869 --> 00:24:37,310 S2: was happening. It was all after the fact. Yeah. And so, 444 00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:41,790 S2: but I remember like holding her on my lap and thinking, 445 00:24:42,550 --> 00:24:44,190 S2: these are the like, what are what am I going 446 00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:45,910 S2: to say? And I just said, like, your dad has 447 00:24:45,910 --> 00:24:48,469 S2: died because she was wanting to call him on the phone, um, 448 00:24:48,510 --> 00:24:51,550 S2: as she did every night. And, you know, just having 449 00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:55,190 S2: to say the words like dad has died. And, you know, he, 450 00:24:55,230 --> 00:24:58,590 S2: he cannot come back home. And we built on that later. 451 00:24:58,590 --> 00:25:03,230 S2: But it's so important for kids to have that concrete language. 452 00:25:03,470 --> 00:25:06,310 S2: And there's a lot of research that suggests that children 453 00:25:06,310 --> 00:25:09,550 S2: as young as even two and three can have an 454 00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:13,070 S2: appropriate understanding of the permanence of death. And I think 455 00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:17,030 S2: that's important, even as Christian parents, that should, one, give 456 00:25:17,030 --> 00:25:19,430 S2: us a lot of hope and comfort, because we can 457 00:25:19,470 --> 00:25:22,710 S2: engage our children in age appropriate ways. And it also 458 00:25:22,710 --> 00:25:26,580 S2: allows us to talk about Christ's death and resurrection. God 459 00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:31,980 S2: who came and conquered death. And so it's so comforting 460 00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:33,780 S2: to be able to talk with our kids about such 461 00:25:33,820 --> 00:25:35,220 S2: hope in clear terms. 462 00:25:35,940 --> 00:25:39,580 S1: Allison Ponzi has written an award winning book. He always 463 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:42,420 S1: hears a story of loss and the hope of things 464 00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:46,740 S1: made new. It's our featured resource at Chris Fabry live.org. 465 00:25:47,060 --> 00:25:51,899 S1: Chris fabry.org. We're going to talk about the book specifically 466 00:25:51,900 --> 00:26:03,340 S1: when we return from these messages. If you are trying 467 00:26:03,340 --> 00:26:07,540 S1: to help your child through a time of loss and lament, 468 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,740 S1: I have a book for you. He Always Hears is 469 00:26:11,740 --> 00:26:15,780 S1: written by Alison Ponzi. Find out more about this story 470 00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:18,020 S1: of loss and the hope of things made new at 471 00:26:18,020 --> 00:26:22,980 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. An award winner, it won the 2026 472 00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:27,460 S1: Christian Book Award for debut book from the Evangelical Christian 473 00:26:27,460 --> 00:26:31,979 S1: Publishers Association. And Alison is joining us today, her daughters, Lois. 474 00:26:31,980 --> 00:26:34,619 S1: But the main character of the book is Jane. So 475 00:26:34,619 --> 00:26:36,660 S1: I'm just going to read a little bit of the 476 00:26:36,660 --> 00:26:40,500 S1: beginning of this. And it shows Jane, with all of the, 477 00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:43,780 S1: you know, pictures of the things that she does every day. 478 00:26:43,820 --> 00:26:46,620 S1: And I can see a, there's a shovel and a 479 00:26:46,619 --> 00:26:52,820 S1: bow and arrow and a flashlight and rain boots and binoculars. 480 00:26:52,820 --> 00:26:56,620 S1: And it just says Jane looked forward to every day. 481 00:26:57,340 --> 00:27:03,300 S1: She had fun friends and amazing adventures. She loved looking 482 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:06,660 S1: for rocks and jumping in puddles. And every day Mama 483 00:27:06,660 --> 00:27:09,860 S1: and Daddy told her they loved her no matter what. 484 00:27:10,740 --> 00:27:13,100 S1: So we begin with, you know, this is a good story. 485 00:27:13,100 --> 00:27:18,139 S1: We'll begin with how life is. This everything's positive in 486 00:27:18,140 --> 00:27:21,380 S1: Jane's world. She's having a good time. But wait. Something 487 00:27:21,380 --> 00:27:25,330 S1: bad's going to happen. Walk me through the progression of 488 00:27:25,330 --> 00:27:28,250 S1: what you went through here, Allison, with the book. 489 00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:33,490 S2: Yeah. Basically, the story has kind of like three acts 490 00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:36,330 S2: to it. And so each of those kind of center 491 00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:39,610 S2: around a different kind of loss. And so at each 492 00:27:39,609 --> 00:27:43,490 S2: time the parents kind of engage Jane, um, with lament 493 00:27:43,490 --> 00:27:45,970 S2: on how she can cry out to God. And so 494 00:27:45,970 --> 00:27:48,650 S2: the first one is that her little stuffed dinosaur gets 495 00:27:48,650 --> 00:27:52,770 S2: all muddy and he's ruined, um, although not totally ruined, 496 00:27:52,770 --> 00:27:54,930 S2: like he's still in the story. He's just covered in 497 00:27:54,930 --> 00:27:57,570 S2: mud and that mud's not going to come off. And 498 00:27:57,570 --> 00:28:00,490 S2: so for a little child, that is such an incredible, 499 00:28:01,330 --> 00:28:04,970 S2: incredible pain of like losing such a treasured possession. Um, 500 00:28:04,970 --> 00:28:08,570 S2: and then the next kind of loss that she experiences 501 00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:10,729 S2: a friend moving away. And that's a different kind of 502 00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:13,570 S2: loss because it's not a bad thing that a friend 503 00:28:13,570 --> 00:28:16,450 S2: moves away, but it's still a loss and it's still 504 00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:19,530 S2: something kids. And even as grownups, we grieve the loss 505 00:28:19,530 --> 00:28:22,330 S2: of friends when friends move away, even for good reasons. 506 00:28:23,010 --> 00:28:25,369 S2: And then the last one, which is the longest one, 507 00:28:25,369 --> 00:28:28,650 S2: is the dad gets sick and the story really doesn't 508 00:28:28,690 --> 00:28:32,290 S2: isn't specific about what that sickness is, but it does, 509 00:28:32,330 --> 00:28:34,610 S2: you know, it progresses, it gets worse. The dad has 510 00:28:34,609 --> 00:28:39,130 S2: to go to the hospital. And because the parents have 511 00:28:39,130 --> 00:28:43,370 S2: engaged Jane with, hey, you can cry out to God 512 00:28:43,370 --> 00:28:46,530 S2: because he's with you and he always hears you. When 513 00:28:46,530 --> 00:28:50,570 S2: she's experiencing this bigger loss, she knows what to do. 514 00:28:50,610 --> 00:28:53,170 S2: She knows that when she's laying in bed on her own, 515 00:28:53,210 --> 00:28:55,570 S2: afraid of what's going to happen, and she doesn't know 516 00:28:55,570 --> 00:28:58,090 S2: how this story is going to end, she cries out 517 00:28:58,090 --> 00:29:00,650 S2: to God, and she tells God how much her heart hurts. 518 00:29:01,090 --> 00:29:04,250 S2: And that was my my goal is that kids and 519 00:29:04,250 --> 00:29:07,970 S2: the story stops short of a resolution. We don't know 520 00:29:07,970 --> 00:29:11,050 S2: what happens to the dad. And so my my heart 521 00:29:11,050 --> 00:29:14,530 S2: was that families that have experienced the death of a 522 00:29:14,530 --> 00:29:18,250 S2: loved one. This is a deep enough story to address that. 523 00:29:18,250 --> 00:29:21,970 S2: But they don't have to. If children haven't experienced death, 524 00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:24,890 S2: you can follow the example of the parents in the 525 00:29:24,890 --> 00:29:27,650 S2: story and just kind of take advantage of those, quote, 526 00:29:27,650 --> 00:29:30,570 S2: little losses that children face to kind of kind of 527 00:29:30,610 --> 00:29:32,810 S2: sprinkle in this idea of what does it mean to 528 00:29:32,850 --> 00:29:35,730 S2: cry out to God when your heart hurts? So that's 529 00:29:35,730 --> 00:29:38,850 S2: kind of the the general outline of the story. 530 00:29:39,610 --> 00:29:43,250 S1: The book is illustrated by Tyler Charlton. When you first 531 00:29:43,250 --> 00:29:47,610 S1: saw the picture of Jane in her dad's arms in 532 00:29:47,610 --> 00:29:51,209 S1: the story, hugging his neck, what went through your mind? 533 00:29:51,970 --> 00:29:53,410 S3: Oh, I loved it. 534 00:29:53,410 --> 00:29:57,810 S2: I was so thrilled when Crosby showed me Tyler's artwork. 535 00:29:57,810 --> 00:29:59,450 S2: I just knew it was going to be perfect. I 536 00:29:59,450 --> 00:30:00,969 S2: knew that he was going to be able to capture 537 00:30:00,970 --> 00:30:04,290 S2: the emotion. Um, and, and honestly, like a little bit 538 00:30:04,290 --> 00:30:07,610 S2: of whimsy too. Like it's, but it just, it was perfect. 539 00:30:07,610 --> 00:30:09,410 S2: And I love his style and the way that he 540 00:30:09,450 --> 00:30:12,530 S2: was able to capture just kind of that childhood sadness, 541 00:30:12,690 --> 00:30:16,250 S2: but also that safety and security of, of good wise 542 00:30:16,250 --> 00:30:19,680 S2: grownups kind of showing you how to navigate life when 543 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,000 S2: it hurts was just. He did so beautifully. 544 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:22,880 S5: Yes. 545 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,840 S1: Uh, her friend who moves away is Gwen. And you write. 546 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,480 S1: A few days later, Mama and Jane went for a walk. 547 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:35,480 S1: When they passed Gwen's old house, Jane scrunched her nose 548 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:40,440 S1: and her face got hot. I miss Gwen, and there 549 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:45,720 S1: are some who would say as parents. Well, I know, honey, 550 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,000 S1: but you're going to make new friends. Or, you know, 551 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,440 S1: think of the positives and, uh, those types of things. 552 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,040 S1: If you are walking in through a loss like that 553 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,800 S1: with a child, you don't spike the feeling, right? 554 00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:06,920 S2: Mhm. Yeah. I think it's so important to help like acknowledge, um, 555 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,000 S2: that it hurts, you know, in grown ups, in the story, 556 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:14,280 S2: they're not exaggerating it. They're not, um, making it bigger 557 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,480 S2: than it has to be. But here's a child whose 558 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200 S2: heart hurts because a friend moves away. And if we're honest, 559 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,280 S2: we would feel the same way. And so I think 560 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:23,720 S2: it's also helpful to remind ourselves to not expect our 561 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,200 S2: children to kind of be immune to sadness that that 562 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,640 S2: we as grown ups still feel. And so, you know, and, 563 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,600 S2: you know, if I were walking alongside my daughter, we've, we've, 564 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,560 S2: we've had friends move away. And I always start with the, 565 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,160 S2: I know your heart hurts that type of language. And like, 566 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,280 S2: this is sad. And as we continue to have conversations, 567 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,040 S2: I can point her to God's grace and goodness in 568 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,880 S2: providing other friends, right? Like we can. This isn't the 569 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,520 S2: end of the conversation, but it's such an important part 570 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,800 S2: of the conversation. When our kids experience loss and disappointment 571 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,840 S2: in a lot of different areas of life. 572 00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,800 S1: Uh, it hurts when people we love move away. Mama said, 573 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,400 S1: do you remember what we can do? Jane shrugged. Mama 574 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,480 S1: kneeled on the sidewalk. Take a deep breath. Talk to God. 575 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,720 S1: He's with us and always hears us. Tell him how 576 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,880 S1: much it hurts. Remember, because God made and saved us. 577 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,720 S1: We hope in what is true his. He promises that 578 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:28,200 S1: one day what's broken, he'll make new. And that doesn't 579 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,160 S1: negate the pain of the loss of the friend who 580 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,000 S1: moved away. But it does give hope in the future. 581 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,680 S1: Much like when her father gets ill. This. We live 582 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,600 S1: in a broken world, but the way that you. She 583 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,440 S1: gets down on her level to. That's the other thing 584 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,040 S1: I love. And isn't it? Isn't it wonderful that Jesus 585 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,120 S1: got down on our level? He didn't just tell us 586 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,120 S1: this from the skies, you know, he he got down 587 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,840 S1: here with us and experienced it. And that's what you're 588 00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,480 S1: doing here with the mom, right? 589 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,840 S2: Exactly. And and I think that refrain, that rhyming refrain 590 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,040 S2: is present throughout the book. And it's so helpful because 591 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:13,560 S2: it's very orienting, right? It doesn't change how we feel, 592 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,390 S2: but it orients our eyes to what who God is. 593 00:33:16,830 --> 00:33:20,350 S2: Especially in our pain when we don't know what's happening. Um, 594 00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:23,310 S2: it it points us to who is listening. Um, and 595 00:33:23,310 --> 00:33:26,190 S2: it's a God who always keeps his promises. And he 596 00:33:26,190 --> 00:33:28,510 S2: promised to send a Savior. And he did. And he 597 00:33:28,510 --> 00:33:31,230 S2: promises that he's going to come back and make all 598 00:33:31,230 --> 00:33:33,350 S2: things new and he will. And so it's just a 599 00:33:33,350 --> 00:33:37,190 S2: very orienting, um, to our cries while we cry. 600 00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:38,390 S5: Yes. 601 00:33:39,310 --> 00:33:42,030 S1: And it does not negate. That's the thing I think 602 00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:44,270 S1: a lot of people, even even people in the church, 603 00:33:44,270 --> 00:33:46,830 S1: but especially people outside the church looking in, it's like, 604 00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:49,070 S1: this is a pie in the sky by and by. 605 00:33:49,070 --> 00:33:52,670 S1: And you're, you're, you're spiking all of your pain now 606 00:33:52,670 --> 00:33:55,270 S1: because of this. And so you're kind of believing in 607 00:33:55,270 --> 00:34:00,350 S1: fairy tales, but it's like, no, this is exactly what 608 00:34:00,350 --> 00:34:04,110 S1: the the disciples went through when they're looking at the cross, 609 00:34:04,150 --> 00:34:08,190 S1: you know, they're, they're not understanding what is going on here. 610 00:34:08,190 --> 00:34:12,390 S1: And they're living through Saturday. And then the resurrection comes 611 00:34:12,750 --> 00:34:16,110 S1: and then they see the what Jesus had talked about. 612 00:34:16,150 --> 00:34:18,790 S1: You know, what is this rising from the dead mean? 613 00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:21,550 S1: You know, they just didn't get it. And then they 614 00:34:21,590 --> 00:34:25,230 S1: saw it. And so this lament that you're taking your 615 00:34:25,230 --> 00:34:28,910 S1: daughter through and that you're going through is one that 616 00:34:28,910 --> 00:34:33,870 S1: is rooted in reality and not something that you're just, well, 617 00:34:33,870 --> 00:34:36,029 S1: we hope that this is going to happen. So here's 618 00:34:36,030 --> 00:34:39,950 S1: my question. Did writing this for you? Was it did 619 00:34:39,950 --> 00:34:42,589 S1: it allow you even though it's for children, did it 620 00:34:42,590 --> 00:34:45,830 S1: allow you to go to a deeper place with the father? 621 00:34:47,110 --> 00:34:47,710 S3: Oh, yeah. 622 00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:51,549 S2: And the, the way that the Lord has just been 623 00:34:51,750 --> 00:34:54,750 S2: working in so many different avenues of my life to, 624 00:34:55,150 --> 00:34:58,390 S2: to just further show me his, his goodness and his 625 00:34:58,390 --> 00:35:01,870 S2: character and his love and promise keeping to us, um, 626 00:35:01,910 --> 00:35:05,150 S2: including through the process of writing this. And I also 627 00:35:05,190 --> 00:35:08,950 S2: think that walking alongside our children in lament is, is 628 00:35:08,950 --> 00:35:12,180 S2: not separate from discipleship. And so if, if you know 629 00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:14,660 S2: what we think of like normal discipleship to our children 630 00:35:14,660 --> 00:35:17,780 S2: flows out of our own relationship with the Lord, so 631 00:35:17,780 --> 00:35:20,980 S2: does our ability to help our children lament. And that 632 00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:24,540 S2: was true for, for me. And you know, my being 633 00:35:24,540 --> 00:35:27,820 S2: in lament allowed me to write this book also allowed 634 00:35:27,820 --> 00:35:30,020 S2: me to walk alongside my daughter, I think in a 635 00:35:30,020 --> 00:35:31,740 S2: much better, a much better way. 636 00:35:32,580 --> 00:35:36,259 S1: He always hears a story of loss and the hope 637 00:35:36,260 --> 00:35:40,860 S1: of things made new. As our featured resource at Chris fabry.org. 638 00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:44,540 S1: I mentioned it as one the 2026 Christian Book Award 639 00:35:44,540 --> 00:35:50,500 S1: for Debut Book. It's by Allison Punzi, BONZI. You can 640 00:35:50,500 --> 00:35:54,419 S1: find out more at the website. Chris Fabry live.org. Chris 641 00:35:54,460 --> 00:36:08,180 S1: Fabry live dot zero. One of the best things about 642 00:36:08,180 --> 00:36:12,060 S1: Moody Radio, I think, is we introduce you to some 643 00:36:12,060 --> 00:36:15,220 S1: resources that you may not hear about any other way. 644 00:36:15,780 --> 00:36:18,779 S1: And I hope that you hear loudly and clearly that 645 00:36:18,780 --> 00:36:21,700 S1: if there's somebody in your life who's going through a 646 00:36:21,739 --> 00:36:24,140 S1: loss and it doesn't have to be the death of 647 00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:27,660 S1: a spouse, the death of a parent, it could be something. 648 00:36:27,700 --> 00:36:30,339 S1: That's the other thing that's, you know, wonderful thing, you know, 649 00:36:30,380 --> 00:36:33,940 S1: little dinosaur in this story, he always hears. And then 650 00:36:33,940 --> 00:36:36,420 S1: a friend moves away and then her father gets sick. 651 00:36:36,940 --> 00:36:41,339 S1: It's this ascending loss that comes in in here. It 652 00:36:41,340 --> 00:36:44,540 S1: can help. You can help as a parent come alongside 653 00:36:44,940 --> 00:36:48,140 S1: that younger that young one. And so if you go 654 00:36:48,140 --> 00:36:50,980 S1: to the website, you'll find out more about Allison Punzi. 655 00:36:51,100 --> 00:36:53,299 S1: He always hears a story of loss and the hope 656 00:36:53,300 --> 00:36:56,700 S1: of things made new. I just had an extended family 657 00:36:56,700 --> 00:37:04,100 S1: member lose a son, and this was several weeks ago 658 00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:08,260 S1: and I. I bought a sympathy card. Card of sympathy 659 00:37:09,060 --> 00:37:12,060 S1: And I hung on to it and I just for 660 00:37:12,060 --> 00:37:15,859 S1: weeks because I. I don't want to say it took 661 00:37:15,860 --> 00:37:18,779 S1: me a while to actually choose the card to because, 662 00:37:19,020 --> 00:37:21,500 S1: you know, here's the poem. Here's. And there's nothing wrong 663 00:37:21,500 --> 00:37:24,580 S1: with a poem. It's just like, I just want you 664 00:37:24,580 --> 00:37:27,980 S1: to know how much, how sorry I am that you've 665 00:37:28,020 --> 00:37:31,940 S1: gone through this. And so I finally found the card 666 00:37:31,940 --> 00:37:36,500 S1: with deepest sympathy or something like that. Um, and then 667 00:37:36,820 --> 00:37:40,540 S1: I had just let it sit there because what I 668 00:37:40,540 --> 00:37:44,620 S1: was thinking of writing and saying was more about me 669 00:37:44,620 --> 00:37:47,380 S1: than it was about them. You know, I want you 670 00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:50,060 S1: to know how much I and this and I, and I, 671 00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:53,020 S1: and I was like, no, no, they don't need to 672 00:37:53,060 --> 00:37:56,820 S1: hear how I've been thinking of you. I've been praying 673 00:37:56,820 --> 00:38:00,140 S1: for you. I'm so sorry, you know, and I try 674 00:38:00,180 --> 00:38:03,740 S1: to keep it as, as short as possible. And I 675 00:38:04,060 --> 00:38:08,850 S1: relate that to you because I know it's really difficult 676 00:38:08,850 --> 00:38:12,250 S1: to know what to say. And my guess is. 677 00:38:12,290 --> 00:38:12,930 S5: That there were. 678 00:38:13,050 --> 00:38:17,049 S1: Probably some people who said some things to you right 679 00:38:17,050 --> 00:38:20,970 S1: after Frank died, and in the intervening months that were 680 00:38:20,969 --> 00:38:24,890 S1: very helpful. And there were also some things that were, uh, 681 00:38:25,050 --> 00:38:28,330 S1: you wished you could take it back. Is that true? 682 00:38:29,410 --> 00:38:30,049 S3: Yeah. 683 00:38:30,090 --> 00:38:34,330 S2: And I've been asked this before, and I, because I think, 684 00:38:35,370 --> 00:38:37,490 S2: and I want to encourage someone, if you're the person 685 00:38:37,489 --> 00:38:42,169 S2: like yourself who's, you know, being very thoughtful, um, you're 686 00:38:42,170 --> 00:38:47,330 S2: probably okay if you're thinking before you speak, um, you're, 687 00:38:47,450 --> 00:38:51,330 S2: you're probably going to do. All right. Um, because writing 688 00:38:51,330 --> 00:38:54,690 S2: that card and sending that text honestly is so helpful. 689 00:38:54,690 --> 00:38:57,170 S2: And so, you know, I'll share a couple things that 690 00:38:57,210 --> 00:39:00,290 S2: people said to me that weren't super helpful. Um, but 691 00:39:00,290 --> 00:39:03,450 S2: I don't want that to stifle someone's desire to, to 692 00:39:03,489 --> 00:39:06,370 S2: be an encouragement because it is so helpful. I have 693 00:39:06,530 --> 00:39:09,330 S2: a a bin of cards that I have saved, and 694 00:39:09,330 --> 00:39:12,570 S2: I have pulled them out periodically and reread them. And 695 00:39:12,850 --> 00:39:14,969 S2: it is such a tangible reminder of the body of 696 00:39:14,969 --> 00:39:19,050 S2: Christ to faithfully pray, um, and weep with us. And so, 697 00:39:19,170 --> 00:39:21,770 S2: you know, that said, when I write cards, I tend 698 00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:24,690 S2: to just say like some it depends on how well 699 00:39:24,690 --> 00:39:26,890 S2: I know the person, but sometimes I'll be like, this sucks. 700 00:39:27,290 --> 00:39:31,290 S2: I like, I'm so sorry. And I, I, my heart 701 00:39:31,330 --> 00:39:35,049 S2: aches with you. I'm praying for you. God is with 702 00:39:35,050 --> 00:39:39,410 S2: you and you know that be it. And you know, 703 00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:42,090 S2: because these are moments of lament, right? This you're writing 704 00:39:42,090 --> 00:39:44,770 S2: a card, but like you're sending this card into an 705 00:39:44,770 --> 00:39:47,410 S2: acute crisis. So this isn't the time to try to 706 00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:50,370 S2: make sure their theology is right. This isn't the time 707 00:39:50,370 --> 00:39:53,650 S2: to try to make them feel better because it's not 708 00:39:53,650 --> 00:39:55,650 S2: going to work anyway. This is the time to join 709 00:39:55,650 --> 00:39:58,810 S2: in their lament, to weep with those who weep. Um, 710 00:39:59,130 --> 00:40:01,450 S2: and so that's kind of what it looks like when 711 00:40:01,450 --> 00:40:05,810 S2: I write cards. I've had people who have heard me 712 00:40:05,810 --> 00:40:09,290 S2: express some of that deep pain and respond with, but. 713 00:40:09,530 --> 00:40:13,050 S2: But we have hope. And that's that was very hard 714 00:40:13,050 --> 00:40:16,370 S2: to hear because it's like, well, I'm not lamenting because 715 00:40:16,370 --> 00:40:19,450 S2: I have lack of hope. I'm lamenting because I'm full 716 00:40:19,450 --> 00:40:23,050 S2: of the pain of living in a broken world. And, 717 00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:26,170 S2: and I hope in Christ those things are are true 718 00:40:26,170 --> 00:40:28,730 S2: at the same time. And so that was kind of 719 00:40:28,770 --> 00:40:32,489 S2: very deflating to kind of be discouraged from expressing that 720 00:40:32,489 --> 00:40:35,129 S2: deep pain as if it doesn't have a place in 721 00:40:35,130 --> 00:40:39,489 S2: someone who's fully hoping in God. Um, and I think 722 00:40:39,530 --> 00:40:43,930 S2: another thing that was always so discouraging when people would 723 00:40:43,930 --> 00:40:47,650 S2: try to explain what God was doing to me. And, 724 00:40:47,770 --> 00:40:49,250 S2: you know, that was hard because it's like, well, you 725 00:40:49,250 --> 00:40:51,489 S2: don't know, even with this book, this being able to 726 00:40:51,530 --> 00:40:54,450 S2: write this book is an incredible blessing. Um, that I 727 00:40:54,489 --> 00:40:57,730 S2: got to do. Um, but I'm always very careful in 728 00:40:57,730 --> 00:41:00,730 S2: how I think about it and how I talk about it. Because, 729 00:41:01,410 --> 00:41:04,000 S2: you know, even though God has worked this out that 730 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,440 S2: I've gotten to do this in the wake of my 731 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,320 S2: husband's death. I would pick him being alive any day. 732 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,480 S2: And so, you know, it's it's always and again, I 733 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,960 S2: think I mentioned earlier, like, job's friends are such a 734 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,360 S2: good warning to us of just like, let's not presume 735 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,759 S2: too much about what God is doing. Um, because when 736 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,880 S2: God doesn't give us answers about the particular whys, he's 737 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,759 S2: always showing us himself and his character, even if it's 738 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,719 S2: just through his word. And so that's where I kind 739 00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,560 S2: of like to stay is like, I'm not going to 740 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,560 S2: try to justify what God is allowing or not allowing. 741 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,520 S2: I'm not going to try to explain what he's doing. 742 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,000 S2: I'm going to join in this lament. I'm going to weep. 743 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:43,520 S2: My heart aches. This is not the way the world 744 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,600 S2: is meant to be. And God will be faithful through this. 745 00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,680 S2: And that's just kind of the the language that I 746 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,319 S2: kind of stick in in those moments. 747 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,839 S1: I want to go back to the but we have hope, uh, 748 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:57,640 S1: which is a true statement, you know, and the scriptural statement, 749 00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,080 S1: we don't grieve as those who have no hope, but 750 00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,879 S1: I'm what I'm intuiting is that that the person, what 751 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,040 S1: you felt like it was almost like a slap in 752 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,600 S1: the face that you, you are where you are, and 753 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:15,400 S1: they're trying to get you somewhere down somewhere to the 754 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:16,880 S1: next exit. And you're not. 755 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:17,320 S5: There. 756 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,920 S1: Yet. Though though, that next exit is true. You know 757 00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,919 S1: that you and you do have hope. But you need 758 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,360 S1: to stay right. And, and the, the, it also strikes 759 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:31,840 S1: me that it's that person who's uncomfortable with being not 760 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,520 S1: as far down as the seeing the hope, you know, 761 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,399 S1: exit for hope. That's the person who can't sit in 762 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,560 S1: lament like job's friends did for at least a week, 763 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:43,799 S1: I think. I think it. 764 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:44,160 S5: Was. 765 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,000 S1: We are very uncomfortable to sit in that tension, aren't we? 766 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:50,960 S3: Exactly. 767 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,560 S2: And I think sometimes we think that like, oh, lament 768 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,359 S2: is a season before we get to the part that's worshipful. 769 00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:00,319 S2: But when we're crying out to God because of who 770 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,950 S2: he is and his character that's ascribing his worth. He's 771 00:43:03,950 --> 00:43:06,230 S2: worthy of hearing our cry. So we cry out to him. 772 00:43:06,230 --> 00:43:09,750 S2: He's capable of hearing our cries. He wants to hear 773 00:43:09,750 --> 00:43:15,230 S2: our cries, and he's powerful enough to respond. That's worship. 774 00:43:15,230 --> 00:43:18,069 S2: And so I think sometimes when we miss that, then 775 00:43:18,070 --> 00:43:20,910 S2: it can feel like, oh, well, then let's get through 776 00:43:20,910 --> 00:43:22,430 S2: this so we can get to the part that's full 777 00:43:22,430 --> 00:43:23,830 S2: of hope so we can get to the part that's 778 00:43:23,830 --> 00:43:27,110 S2: full of worship. Um, but if we're, again, if, if 779 00:43:27,150 --> 00:43:29,750 S2: we're crying out to God, as you know, this, even 780 00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:32,750 S2: this little story is, you know, reminding even children like 781 00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:37,109 S2: cry out to God that in and of itself is worship. 782 00:43:37,110 --> 00:43:40,670 S2: And that is once we understand that, it just is 783 00:43:40,670 --> 00:43:44,550 S2: such a comfort for us and, and such an ability to, 784 00:43:44,830 --> 00:43:46,870 S2: and empowerment for us to go and lament with our 785 00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:48,390 S2: brothers and sisters as well. 786 00:43:48,870 --> 00:43:50,310 S4: What do you say to the atheist. 787 00:43:50,310 --> 00:43:54,310 S1: Or agnostic or the Christian who says it doesn't matter 788 00:43:54,310 --> 00:43:58,070 S1: if he hears he didn't. He didn't heal Frank. You know, 789 00:43:58,110 --> 00:44:01,989 S1: Frank died And you. Your daughter doesn't have a dad 790 00:44:01,989 --> 00:44:05,509 S1: and you don't have a husband, and it stinks. You 791 00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:09,750 S1: know what? So, so so he. Here's what good is that? 792 00:44:09,790 --> 00:44:10,510 S1: What do you say? 793 00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:12,630 S3: Yeah. 794 00:44:12,830 --> 00:44:16,630 S2: I mean, I would largely take them through, you know, 795 00:44:16,670 --> 00:44:19,350 S2: a mini story of the Bible, you know, starting at 796 00:44:19,350 --> 00:44:22,069 S2: Genesis and the way that God created our world perfect 797 00:44:22,070 --> 00:44:23,870 S2: and for us to dwell with him, and how that 798 00:44:23,870 --> 00:44:28,150 S2: world was spoiled by sin. And from the very beginning, 799 00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:30,069 S2: God has promised to make all things right. And he's 800 00:44:30,070 --> 00:44:32,750 S2: already shown us that he is a God who does that, 801 00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:36,270 S2: because he sent us his Son, Jesus. And so I 802 00:44:36,270 --> 00:44:38,670 S2: think that is where if you don't have that framework, 803 00:44:38,670 --> 00:44:40,670 S2: then it's not going to matter if God hears. But 804 00:44:40,670 --> 00:44:44,990 S2: if the God who has provided us our very salvation 805 00:44:45,150 --> 00:44:48,190 S2: is the one who hears and sees every tear that falls, 806 00:44:48,469 --> 00:44:52,070 S2: and we're still waiting for him to fulfill all his promises, 807 00:44:52,989 --> 00:44:55,110 S2: then that's everything. But if you don't have that framework, 808 00:44:55,110 --> 00:44:56,910 S2: it's not going to make any sense. 809 00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:57,630 S5: Yeah. 810 00:44:58,510 --> 00:45:01,149 S1: I'm so sorry that you and your daughter have gone 811 00:45:01,150 --> 00:45:03,910 S1: through this. I was sorry I never got to meet 812 00:45:03,910 --> 00:45:06,750 S1: Frank and ask him questions. One day we will. One 813 00:45:06,750 --> 00:45:11,150 S1: day I will, but not yet. Not yet. Uh, thank 814 00:45:11,150 --> 00:45:14,629 S1: you for being faithful to the pain. A good steward 815 00:45:14,630 --> 00:45:19,430 S1: of the struggle. And thank you for not trying to 816 00:45:19,469 --> 00:45:23,069 S1: figure out what God has done in your life. And 817 00:45:23,070 --> 00:45:25,070 S1: I write this book so that all this can happen 818 00:45:25,070 --> 00:45:28,310 S1: is like, no, this happened. And we give thanks to 819 00:45:28,350 --> 00:45:32,910 S1: God for this. But this is this is the story 820 00:45:32,910 --> 00:45:36,150 S1: that he's given you to tell. He always hears a 821 00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:38,430 S1: story of loss and the hope of things made new. 822 00:45:38,469 --> 00:45:41,950 S1: It is a children's book. Somebody in your life, you 823 00:45:41,950 --> 00:45:45,110 S1: or somebody you know, you need to read this and 824 00:45:45,110 --> 00:45:47,310 S1: have this so you can pull that child up in 825 00:45:47,310 --> 00:45:50,029 S1: your lap and read these stories and look at those 826 00:45:50,030 --> 00:45:55,950 S1: pictures together, side by side. There's something holy about that. Allison, 827 00:45:55,950 --> 00:45:58,460 S1: thanks for sharing your heart here today. 828 00:45:59,219 --> 00:46:00,140 S2: Thanks for having me. 829 00:46:00,980 --> 00:46:03,980 S1: I said at the beginning, and I usually do. From 830 00:46:03,980 --> 00:46:06,500 S1: the heart to the heart for the heart. And that's 831 00:46:06,500 --> 00:46:11,780 S1: what we've done here today. Allison Punzi PUNZI. The award 832 00:46:11,780 --> 00:46:16,219 S1: winning book he always hears is our featured resource at 833 00:46:16,219 --> 00:46:21,140 S1: the website, Chris fabry.org. I hope you didn't have to 834 00:46:21,140 --> 00:46:23,500 S1: hear today's program that you're not going through that kind 835 00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:26,140 S1: of deep loss. But if you are, God bless you, 836 00:46:26,140 --> 00:46:28,859 S1: friend and come on back tomorrow because I've got another 837 00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:32,340 S1: Allison Allison Bixby is going to talk about. I'm excited 838 00:46:32,340 --> 00:46:35,940 S1: about this, about the power of, of journaling what it 839 00:46:35,940 --> 00:46:40,940 S1: does on the inside to us spiritually to journal. Join 840 00:46:40,940 --> 00:46:43,460 S1: us for that right here on Chris Fabry Live, which 841 00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:46,500 S1: is a production of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody 842 00:46:46,500 --> 00:46:47,780 S1: Bible Institute.