S1: I have found that it is very taboo.
S2: I am really struggling with knowing my role. As a child,
S2: I had a hard time figuring out her love language.
S3: How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that
S3: has a very thick web?
S4: Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
S4: the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages.
S4: It's time for our Dear Gary broadcast for the month
S4: of April, featuring your calls and questions for this trusted
S4: author and speaker.
S5: There are love language questions ahead, one I've never heard before.
S5: One caller is at the end of her rope, both
S5: with her marriage and the church. So there's an awful
S5: lot of real issues we're going to deal with straight
S5: ahead on Moody Radio. Our featured resource at Building Relationships
S5: is the book You Get Me. Simple, Romantic Ways to
S5: speak the five Love Languages. You can find out more
S5: at that site. Building relationships. And Gary, when I see
S5: that title, you get me. There's kind of this smile.
S5: There's kind of a twinkle in the eye, and it
S5: reminds me of that. The times when you felt seen
S5: by somebody else. Is that part of the impetus behind
S5: this resource?
S6: Yeah, I think it is. Yeah. It's, uh, actually this
S6: book was actually written by or put together by a
S6: friend of my son's who lives in England, and she's
S6: an artist. And so in addition to giving just lots
S6: and lots of ideas, practical ideas on speaking the love languages,
S6: the various love languages, she has original art in the book.
S6: So I think it's I think it's a, it's it's
S6: a small little book, but it's just practical ideas with,
S6: with art. So I think a lot of our writers
S6: will identify with that.
S5: Yeah. You get me simple romantic ways to speak. The
S5: five love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships. Okay, Gary,
S5: as we start, I want to read a question for you.
S5: And remember, if you want to ask a question of
S5: Doctor Chapman on the program, not today, but for a future.
S5: Dear Gary, write the number down 1866424. Gary, here's the
S5: question that came in. I've recently read through your books,
S5: Doctor Chapman. One more try and loving your spouse when
S5: you feel like walking away. And I want to ask
S5: a more specific question regarding estranged marriages due to major depression.
S5: In my current situation, I've done what I can to
S5: change my perspective and create healthy patterns in my behaviors.
S5: But due to depression, my spouse has a very different
S5: perspective on our marriage and the work that it would
S5: need to take to create a happy marriage. I would
S5: love to hear more in regards to how to engage
S5: in repair efforts. When one party is willing and the
S5: other party has opposing views to suggested solutions for example,
S5: marriage counseling, individual counseling, seeing a doctor for medical help
S5: and so on. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to know
S5: how to move forward after so many years of attempts
S5: to repair. And facing such a negative environment due to
S5: my spouse's depression. What do you say?
S6: Well, first of all, you have to identify with this writer.
S6: Because when you try and try and try and the
S6: two books he mentioned are practical books that I've written
S6: for individuals who are in marriages where their spouse often
S6: is not willing to go for counseling, not willing to
S6: do other things, and certain things that you can do
S6: that have have at least the potential for changing the environment.
S6: You know, we can't change the other person. I mean,
S6: we've said that for years. You can't make another person
S6: do anything, really. But I do think when we take
S6: a positive approach, for example, we speak their love language
S6: over our extended period of time and we ask them,
S6: what can I do that would make me a better
S6: husband or a better wife? Or what can I do
S6: to help you? Or how can I make your life easier?
S6: You know, we take that approach to them. It does many,
S6: many times strike at the heart of the other person
S6: and causes them to begin to reciprocate and begin to
S6: reach out and want to deal with their own problem.
S6: In this case, depression. Again, it depends on the nature
S6: of the depression and how long it's gone on and
S6: what the source of the depression is. But, you know,
S6: if it's been persistent for many years, there is a
S6: place for pulling together family members that she trusts, in
S6: addition to the husband and sitting down with her and
S6: just having a real conversation about, you know, we love
S6: you and we know that you've suffered from this for
S6: a long time, and we really, really want you to
S6: get help and really try to help her come to
S6: agree to see a physician, or to see a counselor
S6: or someone who can assess, you know, what's going on
S6: with her depression. What type of depression it is and
S6: what might be the possible treatment patterns for that. So
S6: I would suggest that to this husband, if he's not
S6: tried that, get some of her extended family, those that
S6: she would trust, who would join with him in sitting
S6: down and just having a really hard conversation with her.
S6: And I would also reach out to, in the meantime,
S6: to find a doctor or a counselor that you would
S6: feel good about so that when she does agree and
S6: often she will, if there's a little pressure put there
S6: by by extended family growing out of love, she will
S6: respond to that. So there is a time for you
S6: might call that tough love, in which you're kind of
S6: putting a little pressure on her to make a step
S6: that will have some positive impact on her depression. So
S6: that's just the thought that comes to my mind when
S6: you when you've tried the kind of things I've suggested
S6: in the two books you mentioned, I think this might
S6: be another step.
S5: The other thing that and you've talked about this before,
S5: when you see someone, when you love someone who is
S5: depressed and has this kind of serial depression, if you
S5: see that as somebody who needs to snap out of
S5: it or you need to fix or they need to
S5: get a, you know, a fix for their life, it's
S5: one thing if you see them with, you know, if
S5: they had a broken leg and they were limping, you
S5: wouldn't think anything of it. It's like, well, yeah, of
S5: course they're limping. But sometimes we put depression or things
S5: that are going on in the mind in some other category,
S5: and we don't see that as, you know, the person
S5: who is is limping. So rather than gauging the marriage
S5: by whether my spouse is depressed or not, and the
S5: person who wrote this isn't saying that, but I'm just
S5: kind of reading into it. basing my worth as a
S5: a spouse on whether my spouse is depressed or not today.
S5: That doesn't help either one of you, right?
S6: No. That's right. Chris, I think we have to recognize
S6: that again. As I said earlier, we cannot make a
S6: person change. We and we cannot change them. But the
S6: fact that he has read these two books, and he
S6: has been trying to apply some of those things to
S6: his wife and and relate their relationship and still not
S6: having progress, uh, led me to say, you know what I,
S6: what I just suggested?
S5: Well, if you have a question for Doctor Chapman, you
S5: want to follow up on that issue of depression, maybe, uh,
S5: something that's helped in your marriage. 866424. Gary, leave your
S5: message and we'll get to it on a future. Dear Gary,
S5: broadcast one 866 424. Gary, here is a love language
S5: question I've never heard before, and I can't wait to
S5: hear what Gary's going to say.
S7: Good morning, Doctor Chapman. This is Richard from Cincinnati, Ohio.
S7: I listened to you on Wfxg 93.7 FM. I've read
S7: the book and my first love language is giving gifts,
S7: and I like to receive words of affirmation. But I
S7: have a question can the love languages also be used
S7: to identify character defects such as time, character defect, insecurity,
S7: giving gifts, you know, narcissism and other issues like that?
S7: Because personally, I love to give gifts and I have
S7: a tendency to overdo them. So I know I'm egotistical,
S7: I'm arrogant, I'm narcissistic, and a few other things. But
S7: how can the love languages be used to identify character defects?
S7: Thank you.
S6: Well, Chris, I join you. I have never heard that
S6: question before. And I'm not sure I have a good
S6: answer to that question, to be honest with you. Uh,
S6: I hear what he's saying. Does some of these languages,
S6: particularly the ones that you speak, like he's saying he
S6: gives gifts, you know, and overdoes it sometimes, uh, growing
S6: out of, you know, some character aspect in him. But
S6: I don't know, I just I've never I've never even
S6: thought down those lines before. Yes. But, you know, people
S6: have often asked me, now, you know, how do you
S6: how does your love language develop? You know, how do you.
S6: And my answer has always been, I don't know. You know,
S6: whether it's nature or nurture, I know it's there very early.
S6: You can identify it in a child, at least by
S6: the time they're four years old. So it's there very early.
S6: But it's like a lot of other personality traits, you know,
S6: where where do they come from? You know, uh, and
S6: I don't think we've ever been able to quite pinpoint
S6: exactly where they come from. This is a something to
S6: explore that I've never explored before. To be honest with you.
S6: There may be some truth to this, but I just.
S6: I'm not in the point to say yes. You know,
S6: here's the answer to that.
S5: Well, the whole idea behind the love language is to
S5: pay attention. Pay attention to yourself. Pay attention to the
S5: people around you that you love and see what you
S5: pick up. And maybe as you dig down into that
S5: and you pay closer and closer attention, you will see
S5: some of those negative things as well as the the
S5: loving things, you know, the antithesis to those that will
S5: help you in your relationships.
S6: Yeah, I think you're right. You know, he mentioned insecurity,
S6: for example, as perhaps the root of quality time. But
S6: insecurity could also be the root of words, of affirmation.
S6: You know, you feel insecure, but you want words of affirmation.
S6: So I don't know that that there would be a
S6: really clear cut, you know, direct response that would that
S6: would really explain why that particular person has that particular
S6: love language.
S5: Our featured resource is Gary's book written with Jen Mickleborough.
S5: You get me simple, romantic ways to speak the five
S5: love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships.
S5: Go to Building Relationships. We had a program on making
S5: marriage easier a few weeks ago. Arlene Pelikan wrote an
S5: excellent book and it had that title, Making Marriage Easier
S5: How to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. So
S5: this is a testimonial that I think you'll appreciate. Gary.
S8: Hi. We've been married for 23 years, and I would
S8: say what has made marriage easier for me, which is
S8: actually more recently, is prayer, where I just ask God
S8: to help me, maybe not be upset in a situation.
S8: Help me to show kindness. Um, just help me in
S8: that moment has really been helpful because he can change
S8: my heart on a dime, which really helps me out
S8: a lot. And, um, the other one is just, let's
S8: say he's on the computer and I'm kind of watching
S8: him from the side and or he's driving and just
S8: seeing him when we first met and anticipating us getting
S8: closer and the excitement in our relationship, and that I
S8: could feel the rush right then when I start thinking
S8: of that and seeing him that way and seeing how
S8: amazing and special he is and what a gift he is.
S6: Well, that's a welcomed response. Yes. You know, I think, uh,
S6: often we, uh, have the program, Chris, and we, we
S6: give ideas and share things, and sometimes we don't get
S6: to feedback like that, but that's that's very positive. But
S6: I do think prayer for any of us is certainly
S6: going to be a help, because the Bible says, if
S6: you lack wisdom, God said, ask and I'll give you wisdom,
S6: you know, and all the traits of the spirit, you know,
S6: kindness and love and joy and all those things are
S6: not the results of trying hard. They're the results of
S6: allowing the Spirit of God to sit on the throne
S6: of our lives and guide us. So God's intention is
S6: to make all of us more and more like Christ.
S6: So the more we talk with God about the various
S6: aspects of our marriage and how, uh, he wants to
S6: build these traits into me. When you look at those
S6: fruits of the spirit in Galatians chapter five, uh, man,
S6: you have those nine traits. It's hard for anybody to
S6: resist someone that has those nine traits. So I think
S6: prayer and asking God to control us by his Spirit
S6: and make us more and more like Christ with the
S6: attitudes and behavior of Christ. The more likely that is
S6: to happen, because God wants that more than we do.
S5: Yes. Well, and you don't. You always talk about love
S5: stimulates love. You know, these and the imagination that she used.
S5: She mentioned the city looking at him as he's driving
S5: down the road. They're going together and remembering what it
S5: was like when she was anticipating seeing him and then
S5: getting to spend more time together. That's using your imagination
S5: rather than getting stuck in the. He always takes the
S5: left hand turn up here and he does. Or he
S5: drives too fast or too slow or whatever. I mean,
S5: we can we can have those feelings. But when you
S5: start to use your imagination and recall this, then that
S5: stimulates that inner feeling that you had a long time ago,
S5: doesn't it?
S6: Yeah, absolutely. Chris, I think, uh, and and listen, we
S6: choose our attitude and we choose what we're going to
S6: focus on. And when we bring back the positive memories
S6: of things in the past that they've done or said or,
S6: or whatever, uh, it gives us really that same kind
S6: of sense of joy and satisfaction that we had way
S6: back when we first experienced that.
S5: Yes. So this is a good place for me to
S5: say if you have one of those stories, if there's
S5: something that has made your marriage easier and you want
S5: to talk about that. And and if you have a
S5: problem in your. Marriage or in your relationships, please call
S5: us 866424. Gary. But I would like to hear in
S5: the coming months some really positive stories about here's where
S5: we were and here's where we are now, and here's
S5: where we how we got from there to here. (866) 424-4279
S5: is the number. That's our listener line. Just leave your
S5: question or your comment or your story. We'd love to
S5: hear from you. 1-866-424-4279 now here's a daughter who is
S5: concerned about her mom.
S9: Hi, Gary. I am the eldest of four children between
S9: my parents. I'm 32 and the youngest is 25. My
S9: parents have been married about 33, 34, 35 years this year.
S9: Over the last couple of years, I have begun to
S9: notice a lot of challenges that my mom has that
S9: I'm coming to understand as being rooted in some pretty
S9: awful childhood trauma and things that I just dismissed as
S9: a kid, of her being a little odd and different.
S9: I'm now noticing may have just been heard struggling to
S9: accept and love herself over the years, and recently I
S9: learned that she kind of gave my dad an ultimatum
S9: that if he didn't change within a year, that she
S9: wants a divorce. And my parents are Christians. They laid
S9: that foundation for us. But I am really struggling with
S9: knowing my role as a child. I also work in
S9: the mental health field, and I am the only one
S9: in my family who is a therapist and sees things
S9: from that angle. I think my siblings and I have
S9: perhaps taken on a large emotional role for our mom,
S9: and I'm realizing that she has not ever really done
S9: the work to heal herself. And I'm fearful that this
S9: decision that she's making from being so unhappy in her marriage.
S9: Even if things were improved, she might not be able
S9: to receive it or to even be happy whether they
S9: go separate ways or they're together. My siblings and I
S9: are really trying to discern, is it our place to
S9: talk to our parents about this? Is it our place
S9: to suggest our mom get counseling? How do we love
S9: her but also navigate creating distance and boundaries? Because unfortunately,
S9: there's going to be a lot of financial repercussions and
S9: housing stuff that is really disruptive if they move forward
S9: with this. Um, so any guidance on how to not
S9: fall into a codependent role? Um, loving and honoring our parents? Well, um,
S9: is greatly welcomed. Thank you.
S6: Well, I can identify with this caller because I think
S6: there are many adult children who have concerns about their parents. Well,
S6: the fact that the caller is a therapist indicates that
S6: she realizes that if a person is suffering from trauma,
S6: past trauma that's never been dealt with, they will make
S6: poor decisions. And when her mother brings up the idea
S6: that she's thinking about divorce. Uh, yes. I do think that, uh,
S6: adult children, uh, have the privilege and the opportunity to
S6: move in and seek to communicate that to their mother,
S6: and especially her being a therapist, because she knows that
S6: there is help if people will deal with past trauma.
S6: So I would say yes. Not trying to control her,
S6: but trying to help her understand. You know, mom, there
S6: are people that can help you with what you're going through. And,
S6: you know, I really realize and just just talk to her, like.
S6: Like you would talk to one of your counselors, and, uh,
S6: we don't know whether her mother would respond, and she
S6: can't make her mother do that. But I do think
S6: it would be worthwhile for her to reach out and
S6: have a really serious talk with her mother about this
S6: whole issue.
S5: Part of the struggle is our caller knows so much
S5: about what is going on. But, you know, the light
S5: bulb has come on. It's like now looking back, the
S5: pieces are fitting together. So she is kind of figuring
S5: this out about her mom. And I wonder if her
S5: dad is also he's been in the marriage for so
S5: many years that, you know, he may not see everything
S5: that she is seeing in a conversation with her. The
S5: therapist with her dad might help as well, don't you think?
S6: Yeah, I think, I think so. And really, even some
S6: of the other family members could get involved, for that matter.
S6: And she's right in one of the things she said,
S6: that even if her mother goes through divorce, that's not
S6: going to help her problem. It's probably it's going to
S6: compound her problem. If she's suffering from past trauma. Uh,
S6: simply getting away from her husband is not going to
S6: give her a wonderful life. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think definitely, uh,
S6: family members need to, uh, have conversations and just see
S6: what they can do to try to help her understand
S6: that there's help.
S5: Well, I love the care and concern of the daughter
S5: for the mom. And maybe you have a similar question
S5: or something that's going on in your family system. You
S5: want to talk with Doctor Chapman about 866424. Gary is
S5: our number. We had a guest recently who talked about
S5: the power of the love languages in the context of
S5: the local church, and that conversation sparked this caller.
S10: Hi Gary, I am a first time caller and I
S10: was listening to the pastor ask about a love language
S10: for the church family, and I kind of agree with
S10: him that church is an interesting family with interesting problems.
S10: We are a family with adults behaving like children with
S10: different interactions. I think it would be very helpful. So
S10: that is my input as a member of a church,
S10: a small church. So I thank you very much. That's
S10: my input.
S6: Well I appreciate that input. You know, we wrote a
S6: book called The Five Languages of Appreciation in the workplace,
S6: in which we actually took the love languages to work
S6: in work relationships, because whether it's work relationships or church relationships, uh,
S6: everybody has the need to feel loved by the significant
S6: people in their lives. And in a church, there are
S6: people that are very significant in our lives. That's what
S6: the church is all about. Uh, another factor is in
S6: that book on, uh, appreciation in the workplace, we deal
S6: with volunteers Errors and how this applies with volunteers. We
S6: discovered that 50% of the adults in this country volunteer
S6: somewhere every year, and many of those we know are
S6: in the church. In fact, the church would not operate
S6: if there were not several volunteers in any church. But
S6: why they volunteer and why they stay in that volunteer
S6: position is very different. They volunteer because they want to
S6: make a difference in the world. As Christians, we want
S6: to have an impact for people, for God. The reason
S6: they stay in that particular position is because they feel appreciated.
S6: If they don't feel appreciated, then they go volunteer somewhere else.
S6: So that has tremendous implications for the church. So yeah,
S6: I think I don't know that I'd want to write
S6: a book on that. Five love languages at church. But
S6: I do think it applies in church church relationships. And
S6: I appreciate this call.
S5: And a lot of people are are struggling with their
S5: church relationship or what the church has, what they thought
S5: the church was going to be like and what it
S5: has become. Church hurt is and we've talked about that
S5: here on the program with several guests. What do you
S5: say to the person who's listening today and who says
S5: that every time I've tried, you know, whether it's a
S5: small group or a church setting, I feel like I'm
S5: in the outside looking in. Is there a as a pastor,
S5: former pastor now you've retired. Is there something that that
S5: you could say to that person?
S6: I would say, don't give up. Listen, there are churches. Yes,
S6: that are very, very difficult. All churches have people who
S6: are difficult. Maybe all is too much, but most churches
S6: have people who are difficult for whatever reason. But we
S6: need to have in the church more teaching on how
S6: to solve conflicts without arguing. How do we work through
S6: our differences and still have unity? Because the Bible talks
S6: a great deal about unity in the church, and many
S6: churches don't have that kind of unity. And I think
S6: it's because we are individuals and we have different ideas,
S6: and some of us have never learned how to, first
S6: of all, respect other people's ideas. You don't have to
S6: agree with them, but you can respect them as a
S6: human that they have a different idea than you do
S6: on this particular issue. And allowing and working together as
S6: a team, even though we have differences. That's the key.
S6: The churches that thrive are those that are willing to
S6: accept differences of opinion, so long as they don't disagree
S6: with the scriptures, of course. Uh, and even then, if
S6: they disagree with the scriptures, that doesn't mean we're not
S6: going to love them. You know, Jesus loved us while
S6: we were unlovely. So most churches could use a little
S6: help along those lines. So and the five love languages
S6: and understanding. That could be again a very positive help
S6: in terms of relationships within the church.
S4: This is the podcast Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman.
S4: He's the author of the New York Times best seller
S4: The Five Love Languages. If you go to five Love
S4: Languages comm, you can find out more about that concept.
S4: You can also take a free assessment of your love
S4: language and see our featured resource today. The book You
S4: Get Me Simple Romantic Ways to speak the five love languages.
S4: Just go to five love languages. Comm.
S5: Gary. We hear a lot of calls from people who
S5: are in desperate situations. We're hearing those calls today, but
S5: our next caller is kind of giving a report about
S5: a situation in her family that I think might help
S5: somebody who's going through something similar. Here we go.
S11: I just wanted to give an update for the rest
S11: of the story of what I shared yesterday about my granddaughter.
S11: We told her actually that it wasn't working for us,
S11: and it definitely wasn't working for her, and that we
S11: would give her a 60 day notice that she would
S11: need to find another place to live. And we told
S11: her we'd be praying for her and that we'd loved
S11: her dearly. I just want to say that from the
S11: day she moved out until today, which was over two
S11: years ago, she has been so respectful. We have had
S11: a good relationship. Totally turn around. She started adulting in
S11: such a good way. So I just wanted to let
S11: people know that it really is important to let God
S11: transform us.
S5: And that's where her call cut off right there. But
S5: I'm going to finish this like God transformed that relationship
S5: in his time, in his way. Uh, in in love. Uh,
S5: so that's her report. What do you say, Gary?
S6: Well, I think that's a positive report. And I certainly
S6: would affirm that, you know, I rereleased a book that
S6: I'd written a number of years ago, just recently. The
S6: new title is Your New Life with your adult child,
S6: in this case, your adult grand grandchild. But there is
S6: a place, yes, I deal with that whole issue of
S6: children moving back in with their parents, or sometimes, as
S6: in this case, moving back in with grandparents. And things
S6: are not going in a positive way because they're not
S6: obeying the guidelines and the rules that we set down.
S6: And we should always have guidelines. So there is a
S6: place for kind of hard love. You know, we love you, honey.
S6: It's just not working for us and it's not working
S6: for you. So we're going to ask you to move out.
S6: We're going to give you time to find a place.
S6: And but we love you very much, and we certainly
S6: want to have a relationship with you. And in this case, obviously,
S6: it's been very, very positive. So I think if we
S6: recognize that we certainly love our adult children and we
S6: want to see them prosper in life. In today's world,
S6: it's not unusual that they're going to come back home
S6: for a while, or maybe move in with a grandparent
S6: for a while. And let's face it, there are a
S6: number of grandparents who are raising their grandchildren because the
S6: parents of that grandchild are either in jail or they're
S6: on drugs or are deceased. So there are a number
S6: of grandparents who are now trying to care for adult children,
S6: and often they run into similar situations.
S5: Well, I wanted you to hear that call. And then
S5: right after this grandmother talking about her granddaughter. I wanted
S5: you to hear this next caller, who I believe left
S5: two messages. And in the first one she said she
S5: was trying not to cry as she asked the question,
S5: so she called back again. This is her deep concern.
S12: Hi Gary. I am trying to reach out about my daughter. Order. Um,
S12: and I've had a hard time figuring out her love language,
S12: and I'm been thinking about this for 14 years now, and, uh,
S12: she is doing with, I think, a lot of anger
S12: and unresolved pain. And I just don't know how to
S12: connect with her and how to, uh, have an impact
S12: in her life. And that's why I was calling.
S6: Well, I think any mother who has for 14 years
S6: been trying to figure out her daughter's love language would
S6: be frustrated if she hasn't determined that. And obviously, seeing
S6: the daughter filled with a lot of anger and other negative,
S6: you know, responses, I would say if she's still living
S6: in the home, I would encourage you to say to
S6: the daughter, in your own words, of course, you know, honey,
S6: I love you very much, and I think you love
S6: me even though sometimes obviously, you know, you get very
S6: angry with me, but I would like for both of
S6: us to try to learn how to talk to each
S6: other and how to treat each other in a more
S6: loving and kind way. Would you be willing to go
S6: with me to a Christian counselor who can help both
S6: of us try to understand each other? Because I know
S6: that obviously you're upset a lot of the time, and
S6: I know that I get hurt and sometimes I raise
S6: my voice to you, but I really love you very,
S6: very much. That would be one approach. There's another approach,
S6: and that would be to tell her, you know, honey,
S6: I love you very much, but I read a book
S6: about love languages, and what makes one person feel loved
S6: doesn't make another person feel loved. And I wonder if
S6: you would take this quiz. It's a very it's a
S6: free quiz online and it's for single adults. And it
S6: would it would help me understand you better to know
S6: how to express my love to you. Because I know
S6: sometimes you don't feel loved by me. So it only
S6: takes you 15 minutes or so. Would you be willing
S6: to do that? That might be an easy starting place.
S6: Or give her the book The Five Love Languages Singles Edition.
S6: Let her read that book herself. And to say this
S6: book has helped a lot of singles understand themselves and
S6: understand their parents. So. And maybe if she read it,
S6: chances are then she would definitely want to take the quiz.
S6: That would be my approach. Uh, first of all, is
S6: probably the book or the quiz. And then a little later,
S6: perhaps if things do not begin to get better, uh,
S6: suggest that both of you go for counseling.
S5: The the thing that I hear in her voice and
S5: then in her first call is this, uh, angst and
S5: and and struggle. And I wonder if there's something in
S5: the mom who is looking at her daughter and her
S5: anger and maybe some trauma that her daughter's been through,
S5: and she feels responsible for it. And it's my daughter,
S5: you know. My daughter is struggling because of maybe decisions
S5: I've made or I'm at fault here. And that may
S5: not be the truth at all. What do you say
S5: about that?
S6: Well, that's certainly a possibility, Chris. And the only way
S6: I know you would find that out is to is
S6: to have an honest talk with her. And certainly a
S6: counselor would help in that situation, because the counselor would
S6: help the mother understand the daughter and help the daughter
S6: understand the mother. Sometimes a third party is really necessary,
S6: especially if it's a very strained relationship.
S5: Yeah. And if the daughter says, no, I don't want
S5: anything to do with the counselor. Uh, I think you'd
S5: say to mom. Well, you go then, right?
S6: Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Let the counselor help you think through
S6: the situation as to what might be a positive step
S6: you could take.
S5: Hmm. Maybe you've been through this situation with your own
S5: daughter or son or grandson. Granddaughter? And you want to
S5: tell us your story about how this all worked out
S5: and what you did. Your story might help somebody else.
S5: Here's the number 86642 for Gary. That's our listener line call.
S5: Leave your message. 1-866-424-4279. You're listening to building relationships with
S5: Doctor Gary Chapman. Our next caller has a brief question
S5: that I'm sure has a lot of struggle behind it.
S5: Here's our next caller.
S13: Hi, Gary, was wondering if you could answer a great question.
S13: How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that
S13: has a very thick web? Thanks.
S6: Well, Chris, you know, it all depends on what the
S6: relationship is. If it's a work relationship, you know there's
S6: always other jobs. If it's a marriage, then that's that's
S6: much more difficult because I don't. I don't think we
S6: ought to leave somebody in a marriage just because they're narcissistic.
S6: I do think, however, we have to have honest truth
S6: talk with each other in a healthy marriage. And so
S6: I think to say to that person, if it's a marriage,
S6: to say to them, I love you very much, but
S6: I think you know that many, many times I do
S6: not feel loved by you. And I feel like often
S6: you try to control me and that you are always
S6: right and I'm always wrong. And I just wish we
S6: could find someone to help us. Help you understand me
S6: and me understand you. You know? And just challenge them
S6: to go for counseling. They may or may not be
S6: willing to, but the very fact that you suggested that
S6: and told them that you wanted to learn how to
S6: understand them better and them to understand you better, is
S6: at least the first step. Because even if they reject
S6: it originally, they might be open on down the road
S6: a ways. So I think we have we have to
S6: take a step. We cannot allow someone with that type
S6: of personality to control us and make our lives miserable,
S6: but it has to be done in love. If it's
S6: if it's just out of anger toward them because of
S6: the way they've treated you, and so you're criticizing them.
S6: You're yelling at them, you're screaming at them and all
S6: that sort of thing. Uh, you're making the situation worse
S6: because anger and anger, you know, it just explodes. So
S6: I would suggest you have to learn to get control
S6: of your own anger if you're going to help anyone
S6: with a narcissistic personality.
S5: And for those who don't know, and you've answered this
S5: question before, but narcissism. How do what does it look like, say,
S5: in a marriage?
S6: Well, it's a very controlling person. You know, they they
S6: have all the ideas they make all the plans. They
S6: tell you what you're going to do. Just overbearing in
S6: every situation and put down your ideas. Typically, they're always
S6: right and you're always wrong, and it's hard to live
S6: with that kind of personality.
S5: Yeah, but you're saying there is still hope for a
S5: person who's married to a narcissist?
S6: Yes, but I think they have to take action. They
S6: can't simply just sit there and let it happen. They
S6: have to share in a kind way. You see, typically
S6: what we do in a situation like that is we're
S6: so hurt that we lash out in anger at them,
S6: and we say hateful words and yell and scream at them,
S6: and that just pushes them away and makes the barrier
S6: worse between the two of us. But in a kind way,
S6: to express to them your concern and the fact that
S6: you cannot go on like this. Something has to happen here.
S6: And when they realize how serious it is, often they
S6: themselves will sometimes be open to go for counseling.
S5: Gary, this will be our final question of the hour
S5: and it's a little longer. But there is so much
S5: to the struggle that our caller is describing. I wanted
S5: you to hear as much as we could air today.
S5: Here's what she had to say.
S1: Hi Gary would love an answer to this, but I
S1: have found that it is very taboo. Long story short,
S1: I had a compulsive lying type of sex addiction issue
S1: that apparently is rampant in the church but covered up
S1: a lot. I am still in that relationship, but I
S1: have had people, including my own self, know that I
S1: am not my normal self. We have tried for 3
S1: to 4 years between counseling. You name it, we did
S1: it the deliverance at church and every time there was
S1: all this extreme counseling and praying and hitting with Bibles
S1: and rebuking and just I'm off that train now. Unfortunately,
S1: it has turned me off of Christianity. I had never
S1: been with someone who, you know, prayed and, you know,
S1: made it public to be in the Bible and always
S1: tell me God would fix everything. So I don't know
S1: what you do with that. Do I just be grateful
S1: that I'm not a raging lunatic and I'm not a
S1: suicidal mess anymore? I'm just very blah. I'm not exactly
S1: full of joy. So when there could be no more
S1: going wrong, he went to in treatment. And then there
S1: was an incident there that almost occurred that told me
S1: we have a real problem. We even did ketamine. I mean,
S1: I feel like I've had some friends turn against because
S1: they feel that that this has just gone so far.
S1: I don't know if I'm being lazy, not getting out.
S1: I don't know if I'm doing the godly thing by
S1: just hanging on because I'm kind of stuck in the marriage.
S1: I want to know why the church doesn't deal with
S1: this more. Why betrayal and sex addiction? The amount of
S1: shame and support that I didn't get from the church
S1: is what has turned me away. I don't even go
S1: to church now, and I understand this might be too
S1: much to deal with. Hopefully you can decipher what I'm
S1: trying to ask. I kind of don't know. Is this
S1: is this it for me for the rest of my
S1: life at 55, or do I just do the best
S1: I can? I still, just to this day, can't have anyone,
S1: or at least a Christian, fully answer what in the
S1: world to do? Why we immersed ourselves even more. It
S1: got worse. I don't know if anyone else is in
S1: a situation and stuck or suffering, or it's a very
S1: touchy subject to ever discuss with anyone, let alone any
S1: other kind of believers or Christians. Okay, so thanks so much.
S6: Well, I think when a person has struggled with a
S6: spouse who has a compulsive what she called a compulsive
S6: sex issue, I'm guessing pornography and probably also adultery involved
S6: with someone else. And she turned to the church for help,
S6: and they prayed with her and they told her God
S6: would deliver and all this sort of thing, and she
S6: kind of got turned off to the church. And I
S6: can identify with that. I think that number of people
S6: have had that kind of experience. But let me let
S6: me say this. First of all, it's one thing to
S6: be upset or discouraged by the way a church responds
S6: to these kind of issues. It's another thing to turn
S6: away from God. Here's what I mean by that. Churches
S6: are composed of people. People are humans. Even Christians are humans.
S6: And sometimes the way certain churches respond in different things
S6: and and what they do in trying to help is
S6: not helpful. And so sometimes a person just feels put
S6: off by the whole thing. But I would say don't
S6: give up on God just because the experience in one
S6: church has been a poor experience. I would say, first
S6: of all, God wants to help you walk through this situation.
S6: And secondly, there are Christians who are different from those
S6: that you've experienced who are more open to logical thought
S6: and seeking help other than just saying God's going to deliver,
S6: you know, God's going to deliver that sort of thing.
S6: So certainly God wants people to have a positive life,
S6: and it's why he's laid down principles for us. When
S6: God says, don't do something, it's because he loves us
S6: and he wants us to have the best possible life.
S6: And when someone violates those principles in terms of sexuality
S6: or any other area of life, they're not going to
S6: have the life that God wants them to have. When
S6: you're living with someone like that, uh, obviously it's very,
S6: very painful for you. If a person to whom you
S6: are married persists in pornography and adultery, that is physical
S6: involvement with someone else, and you've been to counseling, but
S6: there's been no change in behavior. There is a place
S6: for tough love. And tough love says, I love you
S6: too much to sit here and do nothing while you
S6: violate the clear teachings of the Bible, and you bring
S6: great pain to me. So if this is your lifestyle
S6: and this is what you intend to do, I want
S6: you to know I am not simply going to be
S6: here and do nothing. I know we've tried counseling, but
S6: you decided to continue in this lifestyle. I love you
S6: too much to continue. I am willing to go again
S6: for counseling with you. I am willing to do anything
S6: I can to help you, but I am not simply
S6: going to sit here and do nothing. You see, I
S6: love you too much to do nothing. So I'm going
S6: to move out. I'm not going to divorce you, but
S6: I'm going to move out. And if you decide that
S6: you want to be delivered from this, you can be delivered.
S6: You have to make the hard decision. God will help
S6: you if you run to God. He will help you
S6: in this area. But you have to agree to cooperate
S6: with God. And I'm not going to simply accept it
S6: as normal behavior, whatever words you use. But there is
S6: a place for that kind of tough love, and many
S6: times a person who has not changed will at that
S6: point be open to real change. But if not, then again,
S6: we can't make our spouse stop anything. Uh. So there
S6: is a juncture at which we just have to realize
S6: we're not helping them by, as it were, affirming what
S6: they're doing by simply sitting there and doing nothing. Yeah.
S6: So it's hard. It's hard. The difference between tough love
S6: and tender love is very hard. But tender love should
S6: always go before tough love. So if you love him
S6: in the right, his right love language, and you seek
S6: to minister to him and serve him in other ways
S6: as a faithful wife, and he still persists in this behavior,
S6: then is the time for tough love. Often what we
S6: do is criticize the person, put them down, express anger
S6: and frustration with them, and then decide that we're going
S6: to take a step to move out. And they say
S6: to themselves, good riddance. I'm tired of hearing all your
S6: yelling and screaming at me anyway. But if we have
S6: given them soft love, tender love over a period of time,
S6: they're far more likely. When you do tough love to
S6: respond in a positive way.
S5: You know what strikes me, Gary, is when she talked about,
S5: it's almost like she's living in black and white when
S5: the world is color. She's just kind of feeling blah
S5: and stunted. And that's the effects of of living with somebody,
S5: you know, who's who's making these choices. But she also said,
S5: you know, here she is in her 50s, this this
S5: shouldn't I've invested my life in this relationship. This shouldn't
S5: be this way. It's not supposed to be this way.
S5: And is this it? Is this all I can hope
S5: for moving forward? And I want to say, you know,
S5: I don't know her, and you don't either, but I
S5: want to say no, it's this is not it. Because
S5: because of the the love of God and the care
S5: of God for you, your life does not have to
S5: be held back by his choices. Does that make sense?
S6: Yeah. I think you know God has a plan for
S6: her life if she's a believer in Christ already, God
S6: has a plan for her life. If she's never accepted Christ.
S6: God loves her. He wants her to become his child,
S6: and then he wants to use her in a positive way.
S6: So she has a life to live. And running away
S6: from God is not the answer. Running to God is
S6: the answer. Because if she runs to God and she's
S6: totally committed to God and walking with him, and then
S6: finding a church where people are loving and kind and
S6: tender and caring, then she will have a life and
S6: God will use her life, no question about that. Uh,
S6: whether her husband turns around or whether he doesn't turn around.
S5: Well, before we conclude, I want you to to call Gary,
S5: leave a message, maybe in response to the caller we
S5: just heard 1866424. Gary, if you have a comment or
S5: maybe you have a question about your own relationships. (866) 424-4279.
S5: We'd love to hear from you. You can also find
S5: simple ways to strengthen your relationships online at Building Relationships.
S5: See our featured resource by Doctor Chapman and Jen Mickleborough.
S5: You get me simple, romantic ways to speak five love languages.
S5: Just go to building relationships.
S6: And next week, if you're a mom who feels overwhelmed
S6: with anger, don't miss the conversation in one week.
S4: We hope you'll join us then. A big thank you
S4: to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing. Building
S4: relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody
S4: Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody
S4: Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.