WEBVTT - Dear Gary | April 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:04.200 I have found that it is very taboo. 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:08.080 I am really struggling with knowing my role. As a child, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.040 I had a hard time figuring out her love language. 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.480 How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:16.040 has a very thick web? 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.480 Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:25.560 the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:28.400 It's time for our Dear Gary broadcast for the month 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.600 of April, featuring your calls and questions for this trusted 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:32.800 author and speaker. 0:00:32.920 --> 0:00:36.600 There are love language questions ahead, one I've never heard before. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:38.600 One caller is at the end of her rope, both 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.920 with her marriage and the church. So there's an awful 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.440 lot of real issues we're going to deal with straight 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:48.080 ahead on Moody Radio. Our featured resource at Building Relationships 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.040 is the book You Get Me. Simple, Romantic Ways to 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.040 speak the five Love Languages. You can find out more 0:00:56.080 --> 0:01:00.550 at that site. Building relationships. And Gary, when I see 0:01:00.550 --> 0:01:04.510 that title, you get me. There's kind of this smile. 0:01:04.510 --> 0:01:07.230 There's kind of a twinkle in the eye, and it 0:01:07.270 --> 0:01:10.590 reminds me of that. The times when you felt seen 0:01:10.590 --> 0:01:13.830 by somebody else. Is that part of the impetus behind 0:01:13.830 --> 0:01:14.830 this resource? 0:01:15.110 --> 0:01:19.030 Yeah, I think it is. Yeah. It's, uh, actually this 0:01:19.030 --> 0:01:22.190 book was actually written by or put together by a 0:01:22.230 --> 0:01:25.350 friend of my son's who lives in England, and she's 0:01:25.350 --> 0:01:28.670 an artist. And so in addition to giving just lots 0:01:28.670 --> 0:01:32.910 and lots of ideas, practical ideas on speaking the love languages, 0:01:32.910 --> 0:01:37.190 the various love languages, she has original art in the book. 0:01:37.670 --> 0:01:39.910 So I think it's I think it's a, it's it's 0:01:39.910 --> 0:01:43.830 a small little book, but it's just practical ideas with, 0:01:43.830 --> 0:01:45.830 with art. So I think a lot of our writers 0:01:45.830 --> 0:01:47.230 will identify with that. 0:01:47.470 --> 0:01:51.310 Yeah. You get me simple romantic ways to speak. The 0:01:51.310 --> 0:01:56.710 five love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships. Okay, Gary, 0:01:56.710 --> 0:01:59.420 as we start, I want to read a question for you. 0:02:00.020 --> 0:02:02.100 And remember, if you want to ask a question of 0:02:02.100 --> 0:02:04.820 Doctor Chapman on the program, not today, but for a future. 0:02:04.820 --> 0:02:10.620 Dear Gary, write the number down 1866424. Gary, here's the 0:02:10.620 --> 0:02:13.380 question that came in. I've recently read through your books, 0:02:13.380 --> 0:02:16.780 Doctor Chapman. One more try and loving your spouse when 0:02:16.780 --> 0:02:19.540 you feel like walking away. And I want to ask 0:02:19.540 --> 0:02:25.179 a more specific question regarding estranged marriages due to major depression. 0:02:25.419 --> 0:02:28.500 In my current situation, I've done what I can to 0:02:28.540 --> 0:02:33.139 change my perspective and create healthy patterns in my behaviors. 0:02:33.460 --> 0:02:36.300 But due to depression, my spouse has a very different 0:02:36.300 --> 0:02:38.820 perspective on our marriage and the work that it would 0:02:38.820 --> 0:02:41.980 need to take to create a happy marriage. I would 0:02:41.980 --> 0:02:44.460 love to hear more in regards to how to engage 0:02:44.460 --> 0:02:48.460 in repair efforts. When one party is willing and the 0:02:48.460 --> 0:02:53.460 other party has opposing views to suggested solutions for example, 0:02:53.500 --> 0:02:58.400 marriage counseling, individual counseling, seeing a doctor for medical help 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.200 and so on. I'm finding it incredibly difficult to know 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:04.920 how to move forward after so many years of attempts 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.960 to repair. And facing such a negative environment due to 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.880 my spouse's depression. What do you say? 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.440 Well, first of all, you have to identify with this writer. 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:21.840 Because when you try and try and try and the 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.360 two books he mentioned are practical books that I've written 0:03:26.160 --> 0:03:30.520 for individuals who are in marriages where their spouse often 0:03:30.520 --> 0:03:32.800 is not willing to go for counseling, not willing to 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.840 do other things, and certain things that you can do 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.680 that have have at least the potential for changing the environment. 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.840 You know, we can't change the other person. I mean, 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.240 we've said that for years. You can't make another person 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.520 do anything, really. But I do think when we take 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.880 a positive approach, for example, we speak their love language 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.440 over our extended period of time and we ask them, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.590 what can I do that would make me a better 0:04:00.590 --> 0:04:03.310 husband or a better wife? Or what can I do 0:04:03.310 --> 0:04:06.630 to help you? Or how can I make your life easier? 0:04:06.670 --> 0:04:10.390 You know, we take that approach to them. It does many, 0:04:10.390 --> 0:04:14.470 many times strike at the heart of the other person 0:04:14.710 --> 0:04:18.550 and causes them to begin to reciprocate and begin to 0:04:18.589 --> 0:04:21.910 reach out and want to deal with their own problem. 0:04:21.950 --> 0:04:25.469 In this case, depression. Again, it depends on the nature 0:04:25.470 --> 0:04:27.710 of the depression and how long it's gone on and 0:04:27.710 --> 0:04:30.669 what the source of the depression is. But, you know, 0:04:30.710 --> 0:04:33.790 if it's been persistent for many years, there is a 0:04:33.790 --> 0:04:38.910 place for pulling together family members that she trusts, in 0:04:38.910 --> 0:04:42.190 addition to the husband and sitting down with her and 0:04:42.190 --> 0:04:45.950 just having a real conversation about, you know, we love 0:04:45.950 --> 0:04:48.710 you and we know that you've suffered from this for 0:04:48.710 --> 0:04:52.030 a long time, and we really, really want you to 0:04:52.029 --> 0:04:55.510 get help and really try to help her come to 0:04:55.700 --> 0:04:59.380 agree to see a physician, or to see a counselor 0:04:59.580 --> 0:05:02.260 or someone who can assess, you know, what's going on 0:05:02.260 --> 0:05:05.380 with her depression. What type of depression it is and 0:05:05.380 --> 0:05:08.940 what might be the possible treatment patterns for that. So 0:05:09.140 --> 0:05:12.339 I would suggest that to this husband, if he's not 0:05:12.339 --> 0:05:15.979 tried that, get some of her extended family, those that 0:05:15.980 --> 0:05:20.060 she would trust, who would join with him in sitting 0:05:20.060 --> 0:05:23.820 down and just having a really hard conversation with her. 0:05:24.220 --> 0:05:27.980 And I would also reach out to, in the meantime, 0:05:27.980 --> 0:05:31.140 to find a doctor or a counselor that you would 0:05:31.140 --> 0:05:34.820 feel good about so that when she does agree and 0:05:34.860 --> 0:05:37.420 often she will, if there's a little pressure put there 0:05:37.420 --> 0:05:41.659 by by extended family growing out of love, she will 0:05:41.660 --> 0:05:45.180 respond to that. So there is a time for you 0:05:45.180 --> 0:05:48.380 might call that tough love, in which you're kind of 0:05:48.420 --> 0:05:51.460 putting a little pressure on her to make a step 0:05:51.460 --> 0:05:56.210 that will have some positive impact on her depression. So 0:05:56.250 --> 0:05:58.530 that's just the thought that comes to my mind when 0:05:58.529 --> 0:06:00.930 you when you've tried the kind of things I've suggested 0:06:00.930 --> 0:06:03.730 in the two books you mentioned, I think this might 0:06:03.730 --> 0:06:05.330 be another step. 0:06:06.250 --> 0:06:08.410 The other thing that and you've talked about this before, 0:06:08.410 --> 0:06:10.930 when you see someone, when you love someone who is 0:06:10.930 --> 0:06:16.529 depressed and has this kind of serial depression, if you 0:06:16.529 --> 0:06:18.890 see that as somebody who needs to snap out of 0:06:18.890 --> 0:06:20.810 it or you need to fix or they need to 0:06:20.810 --> 0:06:22.770 get a, you know, a fix for their life, it's 0:06:22.770 --> 0:06:25.730 one thing if you see them with, you know, if 0:06:25.730 --> 0:06:28.890 they had a broken leg and they were limping, you 0:06:28.930 --> 0:06:31.010 wouldn't think anything of it. It's like, well, yeah, of 0:06:31.010 --> 0:06:35.210 course they're limping. But sometimes we put depression or things 0:06:35.210 --> 0:06:38.730 that are going on in the mind in some other category, 0:06:39.089 --> 0:06:42.010 and we don't see that as, you know, the person 0:06:42.010 --> 0:06:46.770 who is is limping. So rather than gauging the marriage 0:06:46.770 --> 0:06:49.490 by whether my spouse is depressed or not, and the 0:06:49.490 --> 0:06:52.010 person who wrote this isn't saying that, but I'm just 0:06:52.010 --> 0:06:57.240 kind of reading into it. basing my worth as a 0:06:57.240 --> 0:07:01.440 a spouse on whether my spouse is depressed or not today. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.120 That doesn't help either one of you, right? 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.400 No. That's right. Chris, I think we have to recognize 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:10.720 that again. As I said earlier, we cannot make a 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.680 person change. We and we cannot change them. But the 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:17.160 fact that he has read these two books, and he 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.960 has been trying to apply some of those things to 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:23.320 his wife and and relate their relationship and still not 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.480 having progress, uh, led me to say, you know what I, 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:27.840 what I just suggested? 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.240 Well, if you have a question for Doctor Chapman, you 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.720 want to follow up on that issue of depression, maybe, uh, 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:38.840 something that's helped in your marriage. 866424. Gary, leave your 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:41.440 message and we'll get to it on a future. Dear Gary, 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:46.400 broadcast one 866 424. Gary, here is a love language 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.760 question I've never heard before, and I can't wait to 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:50.440 hear what Gary's going to say. 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.340 Good morning, Doctor Chapman. This is Richard from Cincinnati, Ohio. 0:07:54.380 --> 0:07:59.460 I listened to you on Wfxg 93.7 FM. I've read 0:07:59.460 --> 0:08:02.940 the book and my first love language is giving gifts, 0:08:02.980 --> 0:08:05.900 and I like to receive words of affirmation. But I 0:08:05.900 --> 0:08:10.340 have a question can the love languages also be used 0:08:10.340 --> 0:08:17.860 to identify character defects such as time, character defect, insecurity, 0:08:18.540 --> 0:08:23.940 giving gifts, you know, narcissism and other issues like that? 0:08:23.980 --> 0:08:25.860 Because personally, I love to give gifts and I have 0:08:25.860 --> 0:08:29.540 a tendency to overdo them. So I know I'm egotistical, 0:08:29.580 --> 0:08:32.980 I'm arrogant, I'm narcissistic, and a few other things. But 0:08:33.580 --> 0:08:37.940 how can the love languages be used to identify character defects? 0:08:38.820 --> 0:08:39.380 Thank you. 0:08:40.300 --> 0:08:43.060 Well, Chris, I join you. I have never heard that 0:08:43.059 --> 0:08:48.180 question before. And I'm not sure I have a good 0:08:48.179 --> 0:08:51.100 answer to that question, to be honest with you. Uh, 0:08:51.100 --> 0:08:54.569 I hear what he's saying. Does some of these languages, 0:08:54.570 --> 0:08:57.690 particularly the ones that you speak, like he's saying he 0:08:57.690 --> 0:09:02.530 gives gifts, you know, and overdoes it sometimes, uh, growing 0:09:02.530 --> 0:09:06.450 out of, you know, some character aspect in him. But 0:09:06.450 --> 0:09:09.410 I don't know, I just I've never I've never even 0:09:09.410 --> 0:09:13.450 thought down those lines before. Yes. But, you know, people 0:09:13.450 --> 0:09:15.730 have often asked me, now, you know, how do you 0:09:15.770 --> 0:09:18.290 how does your love language develop? You know, how do you. 0:09:18.570 --> 0:09:22.010 And my answer has always been, I don't know. You know, 0:09:22.010 --> 0:09:26.610 whether it's nature or nurture, I know it's there very early. 0:09:26.610 --> 0:09:28.770 You can identify it in a child, at least by 0:09:28.770 --> 0:09:31.650 the time they're four years old. So it's there very early. 0:09:32.090 --> 0:09:34.610 But it's like a lot of other personality traits, you know, 0:09:34.650 --> 0:09:37.929 where where do they come from? You know, uh, and 0:09:37.929 --> 0:09:40.370 I don't think we've ever been able to quite pinpoint 0:09:40.370 --> 0:09:44.330 exactly where they come from. This is a something to 0:09:44.330 --> 0:09:48.330 explore that I've never explored before. To be honest with you. 0:09:48.330 --> 0:09:50.840 There may be some truth to this, but I just. 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.200 I'm not in the point to say yes. You know, 0:09:53.240 --> 0:09:54.720 here's the answer to that. 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.440 Well, the whole idea behind the love language is to 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.200 pay attention. Pay attention to yourself. Pay attention to the 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.079 people around you that you love and see what you 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.600 pick up. And maybe as you dig down into that 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:10.040 and you pay closer and closer attention, you will see 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.880 some of those negative things as well as the the 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.880 loving things, you know, the antithesis to those that will 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:19.760 help you in your relationships. 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:23.240 Yeah, I think you're right. You know, he mentioned insecurity, 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:28.600 for example, as perhaps the root of quality time. But 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:33.080 insecurity could also be the root of words, of affirmation. 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.840 You know, you feel insecure, but you want words of affirmation. 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.040 So I don't know that that there would be a 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.840 really clear cut, you know, direct response that would that 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:49.280 would really explain why that particular person has that particular 0:10:49.390 --> 0:10:50.150 love language. 0:10:50.870 --> 0:10:54.030 Our featured resource is Gary's book written with Jen Mickleborough. 0:10:54.070 --> 0:10:57.630 You get me simple, romantic ways to speak the five 0:10:57.670 --> 0:11:01.309 love languages. You can find out more at Building Relationships. 0:11:03.070 --> 0:11:06.990 Go to Building Relationships. We had a program on making 0:11:06.990 --> 0:11:10.110 marriage easier a few weeks ago. Arlene Pelikan wrote an 0:11:10.110 --> 0:11:14.270 excellent book and it had that title, Making Marriage Easier 0:11:14.309 --> 0:11:17.990 How to Love and Like Your Spouse for life. So 0:11:17.990 --> 0:11:21.309 this is a testimonial that I think you'll appreciate. Gary. 0:11:22.230 --> 0:11:25.350 Hi. We've been married for 23 years, and I would 0:11:25.350 --> 0:11:29.550 say what has made marriage easier for me, which is 0:11:29.590 --> 0:11:32.630 actually more recently, is prayer, where I just ask God 0:11:32.630 --> 0:11:35.990 to help me, maybe not be upset in a situation. 0:11:36.030 --> 0:11:39.390 Help me to show kindness. Um, just help me in 0:11:39.429 --> 0:11:43.270 that moment has really been helpful because he can change 0:11:43.270 --> 0:11:45.510 my heart on a dime, which really helps me out 0:11:45.510 --> 0:11:48.660 a lot. And, um, the other one is just, let's 0:11:48.660 --> 0:11:51.339 say he's on the computer and I'm kind of watching 0:11:51.340 --> 0:11:54.020 him from the side and or he's driving and just 0:11:54.020 --> 0:11:57.660 seeing him when we first met and anticipating us getting 0:11:57.660 --> 0:12:01.339 closer and the excitement in our relationship, and that I 0:12:01.340 --> 0:12:04.220 could feel the rush right then when I start thinking 0:12:04.220 --> 0:12:06.940 of that and seeing him that way and seeing how 0:12:06.940 --> 0:12:10.060 amazing and special he is and what a gift he is. 0:12:11.540 --> 0:12:18.060 Well, that's a welcomed response. Yes. You know, I think, uh, 0:12:18.620 --> 0:12:22.140 often we, uh, have the program, Chris, and we, we 0:12:22.179 --> 0:12:24.980 give ideas and share things, and sometimes we don't get 0:12:24.980 --> 0:12:28.459 to feedback like that, but that's that's very positive. But 0:12:28.460 --> 0:12:32.540 I do think prayer for any of us is certainly 0:12:32.540 --> 0:12:34.900 going to be a help, because the Bible says, if 0:12:34.940 --> 0:12:38.020 you lack wisdom, God said, ask and I'll give you wisdom, 0:12:38.059 --> 0:12:41.260 you know, and all the traits of the spirit, you know, 0:12:41.300 --> 0:12:44.540 kindness and love and joy and all those things are 0:12:44.540 --> 0:12:48.240 not the results of trying hard. They're the results of 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.199 allowing the Spirit of God to sit on the throne 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:54.959 of our lives and guide us. So God's intention is 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.439 to make all of us more and more like Christ. 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.720 So the more we talk with God about the various 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.600 aspects of our marriage and how, uh, he wants to 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:08.880 build these traits into me. When you look at those 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.520 fruits of the spirit in Galatians chapter five, uh, man, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.480 you have those nine traits. It's hard for anybody to 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:21.720 resist someone that has those nine traits. So I think 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.200 prayer and asking God to control us by his Spirit 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.559 and make us more and more like Christ with the 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:31.080 attitudes and behavior of Christ. The more likely that is 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.760 to happen, because God wants that more than we do. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:37.040 Yes. Well, and you don't. You always talk about love 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:41.160 stimulates love. You know, these and the imagination that she used. 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.160 She mentioned the city looking at him as he's driving 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:47.470 down the road. They're going together and remembering what it 0:13:47.470 --> 0:13:50.589 was like when she was anticipating seeing him and then 0:13:50.590 --> 0:13:54.510 getting to spend more time together. That's using your imagination 0:13:54.510 --> 0:13:56.870 rather than getting stuck in the. He always takes the 0:13:56.870 --> 0:13:59.350 left hand turn up here and he does. Or he 0:13:59.350 --> 0:14:01.790 drives too fast or too slow or whatever. I mean, 0:14:01.830 --> 0:14:04.350 we can we can have those feelings. But when you 0:14:04.350 --> 0:14:07.910 start to use your imagination and recall this, then that 0:14:07.910 --> 0:14:12.550 stimulates that inner feeling that you had a long time ago, 0:14:12.550 --> 0:14:13.190 doesn't it? 0:14:13.710 --> 0:14:17.589 Yeah, absolutely. Chris, I think, uh, and and listen, we 0:14:17.590 --> 0:14:20.710 choose our attitude and we choose what we're going to 0:14:20.710 --> 0:14:24.390 focus on. And when we bring back the positive memories 0:14:24.390 --> 0:14:26.950 of things in the past that they've done or said or, 0:14:27.070 --> 0:14:31.790 or whatever, uh, it gives us really that same kind 0:14:31.790 --> 0:14:35.390 of sense of joy and satisfaction that we had way 0:14:35.390 --> 0:14:37.470 back when we first experienced that. 0:14:37.510 --> 0:14:39.910 Yes. So this is a good place for me to 0:14:39.910 --> 0:14:42.190 say if you have one of those stories, if there's 0:14:42.190 --> 0:14:45.420 something that has made your marriage easier and you want 0:14:45.420 --> 0:14:47.860 to talk about that. And and if you have a 0:14:47.860 --> 0:14:51.820 problem in your. Marriage or in your relationships, please call 0:14:51.820 --> 0:14:55.780 us 866424. Gary. But I would like to hear in 0:14:55.780 --> 0:14:59.460 the coming months some really positive stories about here's where 0:14:59.460 --> 0:15:02.140 we were and here's where we are now, and here's 0:15:02.140 --> 0:15:09.940 where we how we got from there to here. (866) 424-4279 0:15:09.980 --> 0:15:12.220 is the number. That's our listener line. Just leave your 0:15:12.220 --> 0:15:14.740 question or your comment or your story. We'd love to 0:15:14.740 --> 0:15:22.300 hear from you. 1-866-424-4279 now here's a daughter who is 0:15:22.300 --> 0:15:23.780 concerned about her mom. 0:15:25.060 --> 0:15:28.660 Hi, Gary. I am the eldest of four children between 0:15:28.660 --> 0:15:33.860 my parents. I'm 32 and the youngest is 25. My 0:15:33.860 --> 0:15:39.460 parents have been married about 33, 34, 35 years this year. 0:15:39.900 --> 0:15:42.500 Over the last couple of years, I have begun to 0:15:42.540 --> 0:15:46.210 notice a lot of challenges that my mom has that 0:15:46.330 --> 0:15:49.170 I'm coming to understand as being rooted in some pretty 0:15:49.650 --> 0:15:53.810 awful childhood trauma and things that I just dismissed as 0:15:53.810 --> 0:15:55.970 a kid, of her being a little odd and different. 0:15:56.010 --> 0:16:00.250 I'm now noticing may have just been heard struggling to 0:16:00.290 --> 0:16:04.170 accept and love herself over the years, and recently I 0:16:04.210 --> 0:16:06.810 learned that she kind of gave my dad an ultimatum 0:16:06.850 --> 0:16:09.810 that if he didn't change within a year, that she 0:16:09.810 --> 0:16:15.010 wants a divorce. And my parents are Christians. They laid 0:16:15.010 --> 0:16:18.090 that foundation for us. But I am really struggling with 0:16:18.090 --> 0:16:22.050 knowing my role as a child. I also work in 0:16:22.050 --> 0:16:25.370 the mental health field, and I am the only one 0:16:25.370 --> 0:16:28.250 in my family who is a therapist and sees things 0:16:28.250 --> 0:16:31.570 from that angle. I think my siblings and I have 0:16:32.170 --> 0:16:36.370 perhaps taken on a large emotional role for our mom, 0:16:36.690 --> 0:16:40.650 and I'm realizing that she has not ever really done 0:16:40.650 --> 0:16:45.110 the work to heal herself. And I'm fearful that this 0:16:45.150 --> 0:16:49.030 decision that she's making from being so unhappy in her marriage. 0:16:51.430 --> 0:16:54.870 Even if things were improved, she might not be able 0:16:54.870 --> 0:16:58.430 to receive it or to even be happy whether they 0:16:58.430 --> 0:17:01.950 go separate ways or they're together. My siblings and I 0:17:01.950 --> 0:17:05.070 are really trying to discern, is it our place to 0:17:05.109 --> 0:17:07.870 talk to our parents about this? Is it our place 0:17:07.869 --> 0:17:12.350 to suggest our mom get counseling? How do we love 0:17:12.350 --> 0:17:19.190 her but also navigate creating distance and boundaries? Because unfortunately, 0:17:19.190 --> 0:17:22.270 there's going to be a lot of financial repercussions and 0:17:22.270 --> 0:17:26.109 housing stuff that is really disruptive if they move forward 0:17:26.109 --> 0:17:30.630 with this. Um, so any guidance on how to not 0:17:30.630 --> 0:17:36.030 fall into a codependent role? Um, loving and honoring our parents? Well, um, 0:17:36.270 --> 0:17:38.150 is greatly welcomed. Thank you. 0:17:39.230 --> 0:17:41.950 Well, I can identify with this caller because I think 0:17:42.060 --> 0:17:48.260 there are many adult children who have concerns about their parents. Well, 0:17:48.260 --> 0:17:51.980 the fact that the caller is a therapist indicates that 0:17:51.980 --> 0:17:55.820 she realizes that if a person is suffering from trauma, 0:17:55.859 --> 0:17:59.260 past trauma that's never been dealt with, they will make 0:17:59.260 --> 0:18:02.260 poor decisions. And when her mother brings up the idea 0:18:02.260 --> 0:18:07.580 that she's thinking about divorce. Uh, yes. I do think that, uh, 0:18:07.740 --> 0:18:11.500 adult children, uh, have the privilege and the opportunity to 0:18:11.540 --> 0:18:15.660 move in and seek to communicate that to their mother, 0:18:15.660 --> 0:18:19.820 and especially her being a therapist, because she knows that 0:18:19.820 --> 0:18:22.660 there is help if people will deal with past trauma. 0:18:23.100 --> 0:18:26.940 So I would say yes. Not trying to control her, 0:18:27.060 --> 0:18:30.619 but trying to help her understand. You know, mom, there 0:18:30.660 --> 0:18:33.980 are people that can help you with what you're going through. And, 0:18:34.140 --> 0:18:36.780 you know, I really realize and just just talk to her, like. 0:18:36.820 --> 0:18:40.740 Like you would talk to one of your counselors, and, uh, 0:18:40.930 --> 0:18:43.250 we don't know whether her mother would respond, and she 0:18:43.250 --> 0:18:46.410 can't make her mother do that. But I do think 0:18:46.410 --> 0:18:49.690 it would be worthwhile for her to reach out and 0:18:49.770 --> 0:18:52.890 have a really serious talk with her mother about this 0:18:52.890 --> 0:18:53.690 whole issue. 0:18:54.450 --> 0:18:58.210 Part of the struggle is our caller knows so much 0:18:58.210 --> 0:19:01.530 about what is going on. But, you know, the light 0:19:01.570 --> 0:19:04.330 bulb has come on. It's like now looking back, the 0:19:04.369 --> 0:19:07.090 pieces are fitting together. So she is kind of figuring 0:19:07.090 --> 0:19:10.970 this out about her mom. And I wonder if her 0:19:10.970 --> 0:19:13.970 dad is also he's been in the marriage for so 0:19:13.970 --> 0:19:18.210 many years that, you know, he may not see everything 0:19:18.210 --> 0:19:21.650 that she is seeing in a conversation with her. The 0:19:21.650 --> 0:19:24.890 therapist with her dad might help as well, don't you think? 0:19:25.170 --> 0:19:28.410 Yeah, I think, I think so. And really, even some 0:19:28.410 --> 0:19:31.090 of the other family members could get involved, for that matter. 0:19:31.090 --> 0:19:33.129 And she's right in one of the things she said, 0:19:33.170 --> 0:19:35.810 that even if her mother goes through divorce, that's not 0:19:35.810 --> 0:19:38.129 going to help her problem. It's probably it's going to 0:19:38.170 --> 0:19:42.479 compound her problem. If she's suffering from past trauma. Uh, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.000 simply getting away from her husband is not going to 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:50.040 give her a wonderful life. So. Yeah. Yeah, I think definitely, uh, 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:54.080 family members need to, uh, have conversations and just see 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:56.400 what they can do to try to help her understand 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:57.320 that there's help. 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:00.280 Well, I love the care and concern of the daughter 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.200 for the mom. And maybe you have a similar question 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:05.840 or something that's going on in your family system. You 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:09.880 want to talk with Doctor Chapman about 866424. Gary is 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.000 our number. We had a guest recently who talked about 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:15.880 the power of the love languages in the context of 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:20.840 the local church, and that conversation sparked this caller. 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.719 Hi Gary, I am a first time caller and I 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:29.760 was listening to the pastor ask about a love language 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.240 for the church family, and I kind of agree with 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:40.790 him that church is an interesting family with interesting problems. 0:20:40.950 --> 0:20:45.790 We are a family with adults behaving like children with 0:20:46.030 --> 0:20:51.750 different interactions. I think it would be very helpful. So 0:20:51.910 --> 0:20:55.709 that is my input as a member of a church, 0:20:55.750 --> 0:20:59.830 a small church. So I thank you very much. That's 0:20:59.830 --> 0:21:00.590 my input. 0:21:01.590 --> 0:21:04.270 Well I appreciate that input. You know, we wrote a 0:21:04.270 --> 0:21:08.270 book called The Five Languages of Appreciation in the workplace, 0:21:08.830 --> 0:21:11.670 in which we actually took the love languages to work 0:21:11.670 --> 0:21:18.470 in work relationships, because whether it's work relationships or church relationships, uh, 0:21:18.510 --> 0:21:22.230 everybody has the need to feel loved by the significant 0:21:22.230 --> 0:21:25.110 people in their lives. And in a church, there are 0:21:25.109 --> 0:21:28.550 people that are very significant in our lives. That's what 0:21:28.550 --> 0:21:32.030 the church is all about. Uh, another factor is in 0:21:32.070 --> 0:21:35.030 that book on, uh, appreciation in the workplace, we deal 0:21:35.030 --> 0:21:41.250 with volunteers Errors and how this applies with volunteers. We 0:21:41.290 --> 0:21:47.609 discovered that 50% of the adults in this country volunteer 0:21:47.650 --> 0:21:52.330 somewhere every year, and many of those we know are 0:21:52.330 --> 0:21:55.409 in the church. In fact, the church would not operate 0:21:55.410 --> 0:21:59.730 if there were not several volunteers in any church. But 0:21:59.770 --> 0:22:03.290 why they volunteer and why they stay in that volunteer 0:22:03.330 --> 0:22:07.369 position is very different. They volunteer because they want to 0:22:07.369 --> 0:22:10.369 make a difference in the world. As Christians, we want 0:22:10.410 --> 0:22:13.970 to have an impact for people, for God. The reason 0:22:13.970 --> 0:22:18.410 they stay in that particular position is because they feel appreciated. 0:22:19.090 --> 0:22:23.130 If they don't feel appreciated, then they go volunteer somewhere else. 0:22:23.530 --> 0:22:27.290 So that has tremendous implications for the church. So yeah, 0:22:27.290 --> 0:22:29.330 I think I don't know that I'd want to write 0:22:29.330 --> 0:22:33.090 a book on that. Five love languages at church. But 0:22:33.090 --> 0:22:36.330 I do think it applies in church church relationships. And 0:22:36.330 --> 0:22:37.720 I appreciate this call. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:41.000 And a lot of people are are struggling with their 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:45.560 church relationship or what the church has, what they thought 0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:47.320 the church was going to be like and what it 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.800 has become. Church hurt is and we've talked about that 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.919 here on the program with several guests. What do you 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.399 say to the person who's listening today and who says 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:01.239 that every time I've tried, you know, whether it's a 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.800 small group or a church setting, I feel like I'm 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.440 in the outside looking in. Is there a as a pastor, 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:13.080 former pastor now you've retired. Is there something that that 0:23:13.080 --> 0:23:14.520 you could say to that person? 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:18.760 I would say, don't give up. Listen, there are churches. Yes, 0:23:18.760 --> 0:23:23.000 that are very, very difficult. All churches have people who 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:27.080 are difficult. Maybe all is too much, but most churches 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:31.160 have people who are difficult for whatever reason. But we 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:34.280 need to have in the church more teaching on how 0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:38.350 to solve conflicts without arguing. How do we work through 0:23:38.350 --> 0:23:42.469 our differences and still have unity? Because the Bible talks 0:23:42.470 --> 0:23:45.990 a great deal about unity in the church, and many 0:23:45.990 --> 0:23:48.950 churches don't have that kind of unity. And I think 0:23:48.950 --> 0:23:52.470 it's because we are individuals and we have different ideas, 0:23:52.510 --> 0:23:55.910 and some of us have never learned how to, first 0:23:55.910 --> 0:23:59.270 of all, respect other people's ideas. You don't have to 0:23:59.270 --> 0:24:01.310 agree with them, but you can respect them as a 0:24:01.310 --> 0:24:04.230 human that they have a different idea than you do 0:24:04.350 --> 0:24:08.350 on this particular issue. And allowing and working together as 0:24:08.350 --> 0:24:11.389 a team, even though we have differences. That's the key. 0:24:11.430 --> 0:24:15.510 The churches that thrive are those that are willing to 0:24:15.550 --> 0:24:19.110 accept differences of opinion, so long as they don't disagree 0:24:19.109 --> 0:24:22.510 with the scriptures, of course. Uh, and even then, if 0:24:22.510 --> 0:24:24.629 they disagree with the scriptures, that doesn't mean we're not 0:24:24.630 --> 0:24:27.430 going to love them. You know, Jesus loved us while 0:24:27.430 --> 0:24:31.590 we were unlovely. So most churches could use a little 0:24:31.590 --> 0:24:34.820 help along those lines. So and the five love languages 0:24:34.820 --> 0:24:39.180 and understanding. That could be again a very positive help 0:24:39.380 --> 0:24:42.020 in terms of relationships within the church. 0:24:46.060 --> 0:24:49.780 This is the podcast Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman. 0:24:49.940 --> 0:24:52.179 He's the author of the New York Times best seller 0:24:52.220 --> 0:24:54.980 The Five Love Languages. If you go to five Love 0:24:55.020 --> 0:24:58.100 Languages comm, you can find out more about that concept. 0:24:58.140 --> 0:25:00.340 You can also take a free assessment of your love 0:25:00.340 --> 0:25:04.460 language and see our featured resource today. The book You 0:25:04.460 --> 0:25:08.780 Get Me Simple Romantic Ways to speak the five love languages. 0:25:08.980 --> 0:25:11.460 Just go to five love languages. Comm. 0:25:13.460 --> 0:25:15.700 Gary. We hear a lot of calls from people who 0:25:15.740 --> 0:25:19.380 are in desperate situations. We're hearing those calls today, but 0:25:19.380 --> 0:25:22.260 our next caller is kind of giving a report about 0:25:22.260 --> 0:25:25.660 a situation in her family that I think might help 0:25:25.660 --> 0:25:28.500 somebody who's going through something similar. Here we go. 0:25:29.859 --> 0:25:32.700 I just wanted to give an update for the rest 0:25:32.700 --> 0:25:36.850 of the story of what I shared yesterday about my granddaughter. 0:25:37.410 --> 0:25:40.690 We told her actually that it wasn't working for us, 0:25:40.730 --> 0:25:44.610 and it definitely wasn't working for her, and that we 0:25:44.609 --> 0:25:47.370 would give her a 60 day notice that she would 0:25:47.369 --> 0:25:50.450 need to find another place to live. And we told 0:25:50.450 --> 0:25:52.690 her we'd be praying for her and that we'd loved 0:25:52.690 --> 0:25:55.409 her dearly. I just want to say that from the 0:25:55.410 --> 0:25:59.370 day she moved out until today, which was over two 0:25:59.369 --> 0:26:03.010 years ago, she has been so respectful. We have had 0:26:03.010 --> 0:26:08.810 a good relationship. Totally turn around. She started adulting in 0:26:08.810 --> 0:26:11.970 such a good way. So I just wanted to let 0:26:11.970 --> 0:26:17.090 people know that it really is important to let God 0:26:17.130 --> 0:26:18.290 transform us. 0:26:19.369 --> 0:26:22.170 And that's where her call cut off right there. But 0:26:22.170 --> 0:26:25.890 I'm going to finish this like God transformed that relationship 0:26:25.890 --> 0:26:30.410 in his time, in his way. Uh, in in love. Uh, 0:26:30.410 --> 0:26:32.790 so that's her report. What do you say, Gary? 0:26:33.630 --> 0:26:36.670 Well, I think that's a positive report. And I certainly 0:26:36.670 --> 0:26:39.629 would affirm that, you know, I rereleased a book that 0:26:39.630 --> 0:26:41.909 I'd written a number of years ago, just recently. The 0:26:41.910 --> 0:26:45.990 new title is Your New Life with your adult child, 0:26:46.190 --> 0:26:49.790 in this case, your adult grand grandchild. But there is 0:26:49.790 --> 0:26:52.230 a place, yes, I deal with that whole issue of 0:26:52.430 --> 0:26:55.150 children moving back in with their parents, or sometimes, as 0:26:55.150 --> 0:26:59.109 in this case, moving back in with grandparents. And things 0:26:59.109 --> 0:27:02.470 are not going in a positive way because they're not 0:27:02.510 --> 0:27:05.510 obeying the guidelines and the rules that we set down. 0:27:05.550 --> 0:27:08.429 And we should always have guidelines. So there is a 0:27:08.430 --> 0:27:11.270 place for kind of hard love. You know, we love you, honey. 0:27:11.510 --> 0:27:13.750 It's just not working for us and it's not working 0:27:13.750 --> 0:27:16.109 for you. So we're going to ask you to move out. 0:27:16.109 --> 0:27:18.030 We're going to give you time to find a place. 0:27:18.430 --> 0:27:21.109 And but we love you very much, and we certainly 0:27:21.109 --> 0:27:24.030 want to have a relationship with you. And in this case, obviously, 0:27:24.030 --> 0:27:27.030 it's been very, very positive. So I think if we 0:27:27.030 --> 0:27:31.350 recognize that we certainly love our adult children and we 0:27:31.460 --> 0:27:34.780 want to see them prosper in life. In today's world, 0:27:34.780 --> 0:27:37.899 it's not unusual that they're going to come back home 0:27:37.900 --> 0:27:40.139 for a while, or maybe move in with a grandparent 0:27:40.140 --> 0:27:43.140 for a while. And let's face it, there are a 0:27:43.140 --> 0:27:46.900 number of grandparents who are raising their grandchildren because the 0:27:46.900 --> 0:27:51.180 parents of that grandchild are either in jail or they're 0:27:51.220 --> 0:27:54.859 on drugs or are deceased. So there are a number 0:27:54.859 --> 0:27:58.220 of grandparents who are now trying to care for adult children, 0:27:58.220 --> 0:28:00.820 and often they run into similar situations. 0:28:01.619 --> 0:28:04.940 Well, I wanted you to hear that call. And then 0:28:04.940 --> 0:28:09.939 right after this grandmother talking about her granddaughter. I wanted 0:28:09.940 --> 0:28:13.340 you to hear this next caller, who I believe left 0:28:13.340 --> 0:28:16.300 two messages. And in the first one she said she 0:28:16.300 --> 0:28:19.060 was trying not to cry as she asked the question, 0:28:19.060 --> 0:28:23.380 so she called back again. This is her deep concern. 0:28:24.380 --> 0:28:30.610 Hi Gary. I am trying to reach out about my daughter. Order. Um, 0:28:30.609 --> 0:28:34.410 and I've had a hard time figuring out her love language, 0:28:34.450 --> 0:28:39.170 and I'm been thinking about this for 14 years now, and, uh, 0:28:39.210 --> 0:28:42.690 she is doing with, I think, a lot of anger 0:28:42.690 --> 0:28:45.930 and unresolved pain. And I just don't know how to 0:28:45.930 --> 0:28:49.290 connect with her and how to, uh, have an impact 0:28:49.290 --> 0:28:51.890 in her life. And that's why I was calling. 0:28:52.490 --> 0:28:55.410 Well, I think any mother who has for 14 years 0:28:55.450 --> 0:29:00.450 been trying to figure out her daughter's love language would 0:29:00.490 --> 0:29:05.090 be frustrated if she hasn't determined that. And obviously, seeing 0:29:05.090 --> 0:29:08.170 the daughter filled with a lot of anger and other negative, 0:29:08.210 --> 0:29:11.930 you know, responses, I would say if she's still living 0:29:11.930 --> 0:29:16.930 in the home, I would encourage you to say to 0:29:16.970 --> 0:29:21.170 the daughter, in your own words, of course, you know, honey, 0:29:21.530 --> 0:29:25.090 I love you very much, and I think you love 0:29:25.090 --> 0:29:28.210 me even though sometimes obviously, you know, you get very 0:29:28.210 --> 0:29:31.480 angry with me, but I would like for both of 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:34.800 us to try to learn how to talk to each 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:36.960 other and how to treat each other in a more 0:29:36.960 --> 0:29:40.600 loving and kind way. Would you be willing to go 0:29:40.640 --> 0:29:44.080 with me to a Christian counselor who can help both 0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:48.040 of us try to understand each other? Because I know 0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:52.240 that obviously you're upset a lot of the time, and 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.760 I know that I get hurt and sometimes I raise 0:29:54.760 --> 0:29:57.680 my voice to you, but I really love you very, 0:29:57.680 --> 0:30:02.040 very much. That would be one approach. There's another approach, 0:30:02.040 --> 0:30:04.200 and that would be to tell her, you know, honey, 0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:07.080 I love you very much, but I read a book 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:10.160 about love languages, and what makes one person feel loved 0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:14.239 doesn't make another person feel loved. And I wonder if 0:30:14.240 --> 0:30:16.280 you would take this quiz. It's a very it's a 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:21.640 free quiz online and it's for single adults. And it 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:24.440 would it would help me understand you better to know 0:30:24.440 --> 0:30:27.240 how to express my love to you. Because I know 0:30:27.240 --> 0:30:30.590 sometimes you don't feel loved by me. So it only 0:30:30.590 --> 0:30:32.710 takes you 15 minutes or so. Would you be willing 0:30:32.750 --> 0:30:35.750 to do that? That might be an easy starting place. 0:30:35.990 --> 0:30:40.950 Or give her the book The Five Love Languages Singles Edition. 0:30:41.510 --> 0:30:44.710 Let her read that book herself. And to say this 0:30:44.710 --> 0:30:48.030 book has helped a lot of singles understand themselves and 0:30:48.030 --> 0:30:52.070 understand their parents. So. And maybe if she read it, 0:30:52.110 --> 0:30:55.030 chances are then she would definitely want to take the quiz. 0:30:55.670 --> 0:30:58.550 That would be my approach. Uh, first of all, is 0:30:58.550 --> 0:31:02.070 probably the book or the quiz. And then a little later, 0:31:02.110 --> 0:31:05.390 perhaps if things do not begin to get better, uh, 0:31:05.390 --> 0:31:07.870 suggest that both of you go for counseling. 0:31:09.070 --> 0:31:11.630 The the thing that I hear in her voice and 0:31:11.630 --> 0:31:16.550 then in her first call is this, uh, angst and 0:31:16.550 --> 0:31:20.430 and and struggle. And I wonder if there's something in 0:31:20.470 --> 0:31:23.350 the mom who is looking at her daughter and her 0:31:23.350 --> 0:31:26.270 anger and maybe some trauma that her daughter's been through, 0:31:26.270 --> 0:31:29.450 and she feels responsible for it. And it's my daughter, 0:31:29.490 --> 0:31:32.650 you know. My daughter is struggling because of maybe decisions 0:31:32.650 --> 0:31:35.170 I've made or I'm at fault here. And that may 0:31:35.170 --> 0:31:38.050 not be the truth at all. What do you say 0:31:38.050 --> 0:31:38.930 about that? 0:31:39.690 --> 0:31:44.050 Well, that's certainly a possibility, Chris. And the only way 0:31:44.050 --> 0:31:45.850 I know you would find that out is to is 0:31:45.850 --> 0:31:49.250 to have an honest talk with her. And certainly a 0:31:49.250 --> 0:31:52.490 counselor would help in that situation, because the counselor would 0:31:52.490 --> 0:31:55.770 help the mother understand the daughter and help the daughter 0:31:55.770 --> 0:32:01.050 understand the mother. Sometimes a third party is really necessary, 0:32:01.050 --> 0:32:03.570 especially if it's a very strained relationship. 0:32:04.050 --> 0:32:06.210 Yeah. And if the daughter says, no, I don't want 0:32:06.210 --> 0:32:09.010 anything to do with the counselor. Uh, I think you'd 0:32:09.010 --> 0:32:11.370 say to mom. Well, you go then, right? 0:32:11.410 --> 0:32:15.170 Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. Let the counselor help you think through 0:32:15.170 --> 0:32:18.290 the situation as to what might be a positive step 0:32:18.290 --> 0:32:19.130 you could take. 0:32:19.450 --> 0:32:22.850 Hmm. Maybe you've been through this situation with your own 0:32:22.850 --> 0:32:26.720 daughter or son or grandson. Granddaughter? And you want to 0:32:26.720 --> 0:32:29.280 tell us your story about how this all worked out 0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:32.200 and what you did. Your story might help somebody else. 0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:36.760 Here's the number 86642 for Gary. That's our listener line call. 0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:44.760 Leave your message. 1-866-424-4279. You're listening to building relationships with 0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:48.920 Doctor Gary Chapman. Our next caller has a brief question 0:32:49.280 --> 0:32:51.880 that I'm sure has a lot of struggle behind it. 0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:53.200 Here's our next caller. 0:32:54.560 --> 0:32:58.560 Hi, Gary, was wondering if you could answer a great question. 0:32:59.040 --> 0:33:03.640 How do you get out of a narcissistic relationship that 0:33:03.640 --> 0:33:06.400 has a very thick web? Thanks. 0:33:07.400 --> 0:33:10.440 Well, Chris, you know, it all depends on what the 0:33:10.440 --> 0:33:15.880 relationship is. If it's a work relationship, you know there's 0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:22.760 always other jobs. If it's a marriage, then that's that's 0:33:22.760 --> 0:33:26.190 much more difficult because I don't. I don't think we 0:33:26.190 --> 0:33:29.390 ought to leave somebody in a marriage just because they're narcissistic. 0:33:30.150 --> 0:33:33.110 I do think, however, we have to have honest truth 0:33:33.150 --> 0:33:37.110 talk with each other in a healthy marriage. And so 0:33:37.110 --> 0:33:39.990 I think to say to that person, if it's a marriage, 0:33:39.990 --> 0:33:43.870 to say to them, I love you very much, but 0:33:43.870 --> 0:33:47.710 I think you know that many, many times I do 0:33:47.710 --> 0:33:51.430 not feel loved by you. And I feel like often 0:33:51.430 --> 0:33:54.310 you try to control me and that you are always 0:33:54.310 --> 0:33:59.150 right and I'm always wrong. And I just wish we 0:33:59.150 --> 0:34:03.430 could find someone to help us. Help you understand me 0:34:03.470 --> 0:34:06.550 and me understand you. You know? And just challenge them 0:34:06.550 --> 0:34:09.230 to go for counseling. They may or may not be 0:34:09.230 --> 0:34:12.190 willing to, but the very fact that you suggested that 0:34:12.190 --> 0:34:14.310 and told them that you wanted to learn how to 0:34:14.350 --> 0:34:17.790 understand them better and them to understand you better, is 0:34:17.790 --> 0:34:21.070 at least the first step. Because even if they reject 0:34:21.070 --> 0:34:25.860 it originally, they might be open on down the road 0:34:25.900 --> 0:34:29.580 a ways. So I think we have we have to 0:34:29.620 --> 0:34:33.180 take a step. We cannot allow someone with that type 0:34:33.180 --> 0:34:36.739 of personality to control us and make our lives miserable, 0:34:37.500 --> 0:34:39.939 but it has to be done in love. If it's 0:34:39.940 --> 0:34:43.540 if it's just out of anger toward them because of 0:34:43.540 --> 0:34:47.020 the way they've treated you, and so you're criticizing them. 0:34:47.020 --> 0:34:49.339 You're yelling at them, you're screaming at them and all 0:34:49.380 --> 0:34:53.140 that sort of thing. Uh, you're making the situation worse 0:34:53.620 --> 0:34:58.180 because anger and anger, you know, it just explodes. So 0:34:58.180 --> 0:35:00.340 I would suggest you have to learn to get control 0:35:00.340 --> 0:35:03.140 of your own anger if you're going to help anyone 0:35:03.140 --> 0:35:05.260 with a narcissistic personality. 0:35:05.739 --> 0:35:07.779 And for those who don't know, and you've answered this 0:35:07.780 --> 0:35:12.259 question before, but narcissism. How do what does it look like, say, 0:35:12.260 --> 0:35:13.140 in a marriage? 0:35:13.780 --> 0:35:17.220 Well, it's a very controlling person. You know, they they 0:35:17.260 --> 0:35:20.140 have all the ideas they make all the plans. They 0:35:20.140 --> 0:35:23.020 tell you what you're going to do. Just overbearing in 0:35:23.160 --> 0:35:27.280 every situation and put down your ideas. Typically, they're always 0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:30.120 right and you're always wrong, and it's hard to live 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:32.080 with that kind of personality. 0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:37.640 Yeah, but you're saying there is still hope for a 0:35:37.640 --> 0:35:39.680 person who's married to a narcissist? 0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.520 Yes, but I think they have to take action. They 0:35:42.520 --> 0:35:46.040 can't simply just sit there and let it happen. They 0:35:46.040 --> 0:35:50.640 have to share in a kind way. You see, typically 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.120 what we do in a situation like that is we're 0:35:53.120 --> 0:35:55.960 so hurt that we lash out in anger at them, 0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.720 and we say hateful words and yell and scream at them, 0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:02.040 and that just pushes them away and makes the barrier 0:36:02.080 --> 0:36:05.960 worse between the two of us. But in a kind way, 0:36:06.280 --> 0:36:10.160 to express to them your concern and the fact that 0:36:10.719 --> 0:36:14.320 you cannot go on like this. Something has to happen here. 0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:17.840 And when they realize how serious it is, often they 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:20.839 themselves will sometimes be open to go for counseling. 0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:24.430 Gary, this will be our final question of the hour 0:36:24.430 --> 0:36:27.550 and it's a little longer. But there is so much 0:36:27.550 --> 0:36:30.870 to the struggle that our caller is describing. I wanted 0:36:30.870 --> 0:36:33.390 you to hear as much as we could air today. 0:36:33.430 --> 0:36:34.630 Here's what she had to say. 0:36:35.750 --> 0:36:39.110 Hi Gary would love an answer to this, but I 0:36:39.430 --> 0:36:45.110 have found that it is very taboo. Long story short, 0:36:45.710 --> 0:36:52.310 I had a compulsive lying type of sex addiction issue 0:36:52.350 --> 0:36:56.350 that apparently is rampant in the church but covered up 0:36:56.350 --> 0:37:01.710 a lot. I am still in that relationship, but I 0:37:01.750 --> 0:37:05.189 have had people, including my own self, know that I 0:37:05.190 --> 0:37:10.590 am not my normal self. We have tried for 3 0:37:10.590 --> 0:37:15.430 to 4 years between counseling. You name it, we did 0:37:15.430 --> 0:37:19.589 it the deliverance at church and every time there was 0:37:19.590 --> 0:37:25.980 all this extreme counseling and praying and hitting with Bibles 0:37:25.980 --> 0:37:30.220 and rebuking and just I'm off that train now. Unfortunately, 0:37:30.219 --> 0:37:34.899 it has turned me off of Christianity. I had never 0:37:34.900 --> 0:37:37.380 been with someone who, you know, prayed and, you know, 0:37:37.420 --> 0:37:41.420 made it public to be in the Bible and always 0:37:41.420 --> 0:37:45.940 tell me God would fix everything. So I don't know 0:37:45.980 --> 0:37:49.580 what you do with that. Do I just be grateful 0:37:49.580 --> 0:37:53.140 that I'm not a raging lunatic and I'm not a 0:37:53.140 --> 0:37:58.620 suicidal mess anymore? I'm just very blah. I'm not exactly 0:37:58.620 --> 0:38:02.300 full of joy. So when there could be no more 0:38:02.739 --> 0:38:06.299 going wrong, he went to in treatment. And then there 0:38:06.300 --> 0:38:10.420 was an incident there that almost occurred that told me 0:38:10.420 --> 0:38:13.219 we have a real problem. We even did ketamine. I mean, 0:38:13.260 --> 0:38:15.940 I feel like I've had some friends turn against because 0:38:15.940 --> 0:38:18.820 they feel that that this has just gone so far. 0:38:19.930 --> 0:38:22.690 I don't know if I'm being lazy, not getting out. 0:38:22.969 --> 0:38:26.850 I don't know if I'm doing the godly thing by 0:38:26.850 --> 0:38:30.930 just hanging on because I'm kind of stuck in the marriage. 0:38:31.530 --> 0:38:33.810 I want to know why the church doesn't deal with 0:38:33.810 --> 0:38:40.049 this more. Why betrayal and sex addiction? The amount of 0:38:40.050 --> 0:38:44.370 shame and support that I didn't get from the church 0:38:44.410 --> 0:38:46.890 is what has turned me away. I don't even go 0:38:46.890 --> 0:38:50.089 to church now, and I understand this might be too 0:38:50.090 --> 0:38:53.850 much to deal with. Hopefully you can decipher what I'm 0:38:53.890 --> 0:38:57.650 trying to ask. I kind of don't know. Is this 0:38:57.690 --> 0:38:59.569 is this it for me for the rest of my 0:38:59.570 --> 0:39:03.170 life at 55, or do I just do the best 0:39:03.170 --> 0:39:07.649 I can? I still, just to this day, can't have anyone, 0:39:07.770 --> 0:39:11.330 or at least a Christian, fully answer what in the 0:39:11.330 --> 0:39:16.049 world to do? Why we immersed ourselves even more. It 0:39:16.050 --> 0:39:19.919 got worse. I don't know if anyone else is in 0:39:19.920 --> 0:39:25.680 a situation and stuck or suffering, or it's a very 0:39:25.680 --> 0:39:31.400 touchy subject to ever discuss with anyone, let alone any 0:39:31.400 --> 0:39:36.560 other kind of believers or Christians. Okay, so thanks so much. 0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:40.960 Well, I think when a person has struggled with a 0:39:40.960 --> 0:39:44.759 spouse who has a compulsive what she called a compulsive 0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:50.640 sex issue, I'm guessing pornography and probably also adultery involved 0:39:50.640 --> 0:39:54.200 with someone else. And she turned to the church for help, 0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:56.759 and they prayed with her and they told her God 0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:58.520 would deliver and all this sort of thing, and she 0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:01.800 kind of got turned off to the church. And I 0:40:01.840 --> 0:40:05.680 can identify with that. I think that number of people 0:40:05.719 --> 0:40:08.279 have had that kind of experience. But let me let 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:11.000 me say this. First of all, it's one thing to 0:40:11.040 --> 0:40:14.920 be upset or discouraged by the way a church responds 0:40:14.920 --> 0:40:18.419 to these kind of issues. It's another thing to turn 0:40:18.420 --> 0:40:22.820 away from God. Here's what I mean by that. Churches 0:40:22.820 --> 0:40:27.860 are composed of people. People are humans. Even Christians are humans. 0:40:28.260 --> 0:40:32.340 And sometimes the way certain churches respond in different things 0:40:32.340 --> 0:40:35.980 and and what they do in trying to help is 0:40:35.980 --> 0:40:40.020 not helpful. And so sometimes a person just feels put 0:40:40.020 --> 0:40:42.700 off by the whole thing. But I would say don't 0:40:42.700 --> 0:40:46.299 give up on God just because the experience in one 0:40:46.300 --> 0:40:50.140 church has been a poor experience. I would say, first 0:40:50.140 --> 0:40:54.260 of all, God wants to help you walk through this situation. 0:40:54.820 --> 0:40:59.340 And secondly, there are Christians who are different from those 0:40:59.340 --> 0:41:04.739 that you've experienced who are more open to logical thought 0:41:04.739 --> 0:41:07.700 and seeking help other than just saying God's going to deliver, 0:41:07.739 --> 0:41:10.020 you know, God's going to deliver that sort of thing. 0:41:10.420 --> 0:41:15.020 So certainly God wants people to have a positive life, 0:41:15.020 --> 0:41:18.049 and it's why he's laid down principles for us. When 0:41:18.090 --> 0:41:21.570 God says, don't do something, it's because he loves us 0:41:21.850 --> 0:41:24.450 and he wants us to have the best possible life. 0:41:24.770 --> 0:41:28.490 And when someone violates those principles in terms of sexuality 0:41:28.489 --> 0:41:31.450 or any other area of life, they're not going to 0:41:31.450 --> 0:41:34.129 have the life that God wants them to have. When 0:41:34.130 --> 0:41:37.930 you're living with someone like that, uh, obviously it's very, 0:41:37.930 --> 0:41:41.649 very painful for you. If a person to whom you 0:41:41.650 --> 0:41:48.010 are married persists in pornography and adultery, that is physical 0:41:48.010 --> 0:41:51.969 involvement with someone else, and you've been to counseling, but 0:41:51.969 --> 0:41:55.170 there's been no change in behavior. There is a place 0:41:55.170 --> 0:42:00.770 for tough love. And tough love says, I love you 0:42:00.770 --> 0:42:04.770 too much to sit here and do nothing while you 0:42:04.810 --> 0:42:08.610 violate the clear teachings of the Bible, and you bring 0:42:08.610 --> 0:42:12.570 great pain to me. So if this is your lifestyle 0:42:12.690 --> 0:42:15.450 and this is what you intend to do, I want 0:42:15.450 --> 0:42:17.759 you to know I am not simply going to be 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:21.799 here and do nothing. I know we've tried counseling, but 0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:25.960 you decided to continue in this lifestyle. I love you 0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:29.600 too much to continue. I am willing to go again 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:32.320 for counseling with you. I am willing to do anything 0:42:32.320 --> 0:42:35.160 I can to help you, but I am not simply 0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:37.680 going to sit here and do nothing. You see, I 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:41.399 love you too much to do nothing. So I'm going 0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:43.839 to move out. I'm not going to divorce you, but 0:42:43.840 --> 0:42:47.439 I'm going to move out. And if you decide that 0:42:47.440 --> 0:42:51.279 you want to be delivered from this, you can be delivered. 0:42:51.520 --> 0:42:55.280 You have to make the hard decision. God will help 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:57.640 you if you run to God. He will help you 0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:00.640 in this area. But you have to agree to cooperate 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:04.120 with God. And I'm not going to simply accept it 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:07.640 as normal behavior, whatever words you use. But there is 0:43:07.640 --> 0:43:09.960 a place for that kind of tough love, and many 0:43:09.960 --> 0:43:13.480 times a person who has not changed will at that 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:18.230 point be open to real change. But if not, then again, 0:43:18.430 --> 0:43:23.589 we can't make our spouse stop anything. Uh. So there 0:43:23.590 --> 0:43:25.989 is a juncture at which we just have to realize 0:43:26.350 --> 0:43:30.190 we're not helping them by, as it were, affirming what 0:43:30.190 --> 0:43:33.509 they're doing by simply sitting there and doing nothing. Yeah. 0:43:33.550 --> 0:43:37.190 So it's hard. It's hard. The difference between tough love 0:43:37.190 --> 0:43:40.710 and tender love is very hard. But tender love should 0:43:40.710 --> 0:43:45.069 always go before tough love. So if you love him 0:43:45.070 --> 0:43:48.310 in the right, his right love language, and you seek 0:43:48.310 --> 0:43:52.310 to minister to him and serve him in other ways 0:43:52.310 --> 0:43:56.589 as a faithful wife, and he still persists in this behavior, 0:43:56.590 --> 0:44:00.350 then is the time for tough love. Often what we 0:44:00.350 --> 0:44:04.710 do is criticize the person, put them down, express anger 0:44:04.750 --> 0:44:09.870 and frustration with them, and then decide that we're going 0:44:09.910 --> 0:44:12.710 to take a step to move out. And they say 0:44:12.710 --> 0:44:16.180 to themselves, good riddance. I'm tired of hearing all your 0:44:16.219 --> 0:44:19.259 yelling and screaming at me anyway. But if we have 0:44:19.260 --> 0:44:22.860 given them soft love, tender love over a period of time, 0:44:23.180 --> 0:44:26.100 they're far more likely. When you do tough love to 0:44:26.140 --> 0:44:27.820 respond in a positive way. 0:44:28.820 --> 0:44:32.580 You know what strikes me, Gary, is when she talked about, 0:44:32.620 --> 0:44:35.460 it's almost like she's living in black and white when 0:44:35.460 --> 0:44:39.060 the world is color. She's just kind of feeling blah 0:44:39.100 --> 0:44:43.540 and stunted. And that's the effects of of living with somebody, 0:44:43.580 --> 0:44:46.980 you know, who's who's making these choices. But she also said, 0:44:47.020 --> 0:44:49.379 you know, here she is in her 50s, this this 0:44:49.380 --> 0:44:52.460 shouldn't I've invested my life in this relationship. This shouldn't 0:44:52.460 --> 0:44:54.980 be this way. It's not supposed to be this way. 0:44:55.180 --> 0:44:57.860 And is this it? Is this all I can hope 0:44:57.860 --> 0:45:01.020 for moving forward? And I want to say, you know, 0:45:01.060 --> 0:45:02.859 I don't know her, and you don't either, but I 0:45:02.860 --> 0:45:05.940 want to say no, it's this is not it. Because 0:45:06.100 --> 0:45:08.940 because of the the love of God and the care 0:45:08.940 --> 0:45:12.339 of God for you, your life does not have to 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:17.080 be held back by his choices. Does that make sense? 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:19.799 Yeah. I think you know God has a plan for 0:45:19.800 --> 0:45:22.680 her life if she's a believer in Christ already, God 0:45:22.680 --> 0:45:25.600 has a plan for her life. If she's never accepted Christ. 0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:28.759 God loves her. He wants her to become his child, 0:45:29.120 --> 0:45:31.760 and then he wants to use her in a positive way. 0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:37.080 So she has a life to live. And running away 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:40.560 from God is not the answer. Running to God is 0:45:40.560 --> 0:45:43.480 the answer. Because if she runs to God and she's 0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:46.960 totally committed to God and walking with him, and then 0:45:46.960 --> 0:45:49.799 finding a church where people are loving and kind and 0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:53.239 tender and caring, then she will have a life and 0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:56.520 God will use her life, no question about that. Uh, 0:45:56.560 --> 0:45:59.520 whether her husband turns around or whether he doesn't turn around. 0:45:59.920 --> 0:46:03.360 Well, before we conclude, I want you to to call Gary, 0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:06.719 leave a message, maybe in response to the caller we 0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:11.359 just heard 1866424. Gary, if you have a comment or 0:46:11.469 --> 0:46:17.590 maybe you have a question about your own relationships. (866) 424-4279. 0:46:17.590 --> 0:46:19.870 We'd love to hear from you. You can also find 0:46:19.910 --> 0:46:24.070 simple ways to strengthen your relationships online at Building Relationships. 0:46:25.350 --> 0:46:28.870 See our featured resource by Doctor Chapman and Jen Mickleborough. 0:46:29.030 --> 0:46:33.550 You get me simple, romantic ways to speak five love languages. 0:46:33.590 --> 0:46:35.310 Just go to building relationships. 0:46:36.910 --> 0:46:40.549 And next week, if you're a mom who feels overwhelmed 0:46:40.550 --> 0:46:44.830 with anger, don't miss the conversation in one week. 0:46:44.950 --> 0:46:47.149 We hope you'll join us then. A big thank you 0:46:47.150 --> 0:46:50.750 to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing. Building 0:46:50.750 --> 0:46:53.870 relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody 0:46:53.870 --> 0:46:58.350 Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody 0:46:58.350 --> 0:47:00.710 Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.