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S1: magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert
S1: Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly
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S1: please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends. This is Janet. Partial.
S1: Thanks so much for choosing to spend the next hour
S1: with us. Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines
S1: are not open. But thanks so much for being with
S1: us and enjoy the broadcast.
S2: Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3: The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4: Americans worshiping government over God.
S3: Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S5: The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S6: This idea is not.
S7: Can you define socialism? Socialism. Can you define socialism?
S8: Can I define socialism? Probably not. If I'm being totally honest.
S9: Socialism. Oh, boy. I don't think I can.
S8: Like Social Security. Roads. Medicaid. Depending on the form that
S8: it takes. Um, anything that sort of come together in
S8: publicly funded and through our government would be socialism. Um,
S8: I might be wrong. So if you make me look
S8: like a fool on the news, I'll forgive you for it.
S1: What is socialism? That was CNN asking some people on
S1: the street. And if people can't even answer the question,
S1: then how does this idea get legs and walk all
S1: over a country again? And why are more and more
S1: people thinking that socialism is a good idea? I spent
S1: part of the last couple of days studying a man
S1: who was murdered by communists, which is, by the way,
S1: the follow up to socialism because he dared to expose
S1: what was going on under Stalin with multiple millions of
S1: lives that were lost while they were telling the world
S1: everything was great. We'll talk someday about the connection between
S1: George Orwell's Animal Farm and what was going on under
S1: the Stalin regime, but I digress. Now it's socialism, and
S1: since we can't even define it, why are more and
S1: more people raising the idea that Jesus himself was a socialist?
S1: By the way, when all else fails, read the instructions,
S1: the Word of God, and you'll find out the answer
S1: to that question. But today we're going to spend the
S1: entire hour talking about this question Was Jesus a socialist?
S1: We're going to talk to Lawrence Reed. I am thrilled
S1: that I get to spend the hour with him. He
S1: is president emeritus of the Foundation for Economic Education. He's
S1: a former professor of economics. He's the author or editor
S1: of several other books, including Excuse Me, Professor Challenging the
S1: Myths of Progressivism and Real Heroes Inspiring True Stories of Courage, Character,
S1: and Conviction. And you know, he's one of the good
S1: guys because he got his, uh, a special award, an
S1: alumni achievement award from his alma mater, Grove City College,
S1: one of the best in America. So, Lawrence, what a
S1: joy to have you with us. And I want to
S1: thank you, first of all, for the gift of your time.
S1: I can't repay you in time. I so appreciate your
S1: giving it to us, and your book is so timely
S1: and so important. Your book is called Was Jesus a Socialist? Why?
S1: This question is being asked again and why? The answer
S1: is almost always wrong. With your background in economics and
S1: someone who understands who Jesus is as revealed in His Word,
S1: this is going to be a fascinating conversation, but I
S1: think I need to start where CNN did, and that
S1: is a working definition of socialism. How do you, particularly
S1: as a prof of economics, how do you define it?
S10: Well, Janet, let me begin by saying thank you for
S10: having me and for that very kind introduction and the
S10: kind words about Grove City College. Uh, I have a
S10: great fondness for the college that I attended, uh, what,
S10: half a century ago. Um, but socialism, you're right, is, um,
S10: sometimes hard to nail down, in part because even many
S10: socialists don't have a hard and fast definition of it.
S10: They'll often say, well, here it is over here, uh,
S10: when some new regime comes into power, and then later
S10: when it flops, uh, they say, well, that wasn't quite it.
S10: We'll try better. We'll do better the next time. But
S10: I'll give you a hard and fast definition of it.
S10: Socialism is the concentration of power in government for the
S10: purpose of achieving 1 or 2 or all three of
S10: these objectives. One of them is the central planning of
S10: the economy. Another is the coercive redistribution of wealth. And
S10: the third is government ownership of the means of production. Uh,
S10: socialists end up doing some of all three. And the
S10: more of those things they do, the more we lose
S10: our liberties.
S1: So then it raises an important question, which is when
S1: you look at those things, at first blush, even if
S1: you slept through high school civics, this is so antithetical
S1: to the principles that define this country that we want
S1: less government, not more. But I was thinking when you
S1: were giving that definition, it raises an interesting allow me
S1: to do what my mom used to call some spider
S1: thinking here for a minute. It makes me want to
S1: go back and sit in like a fly on the wall.
S1: On some of the conversation with the founders. This idea,
S1: by the way, of central planning of the economy. Wasn't
S1: that Hamilton's approach, by the way.
S10: To a great degree, although I think he would be
S10: horrified at how far even the United States has gone
S10: down that path. But among the founders, he was the
S10: more interventionist in the sense that he wanted a central bank.
S10: He wanted, uh, corporate welfare. He wanted more power at
S10: the center in Washington than men like Jefferson or Madison
S10: certainly wanted. of them.
S1: So again, it's an old argument because we're looking for
S1: systems that serve the people the best. And so when
S1: you talk about those things that really just a precursory
S1: reader tell you that they're really antithetical to the principles
S1: of a free market of equal opportunity, not necessarily guaranteed
S1: equal outcome. Why has this specter raised its head again?
S10: I think a number of reasons. One, a lot of
S10: it is coming from academia. Uh, and uh, that goes back,
S10: I think, to the radicals of the 60s and 70s, uh,
S10: who are now, in many cases, professors at universities, where
S10: quite often they have tenure. So they're protected from, uh,
S10: market realities and where they can spout nonsense and, and
S10: get a hearing. And of course, they're teaching young people who, uh,
S10: by almost by definition, a young person in their late teens,
S10: early 20s tend they tend to be idealistic. Uh, they, uh, are,
S10: you know, very interested in being compassionate and helping people
S10: and so forth. And they're told by these professors that, well,
S10: that's what socialism is all about. It's helping, it's caring,
S10: it's compassion. It's doing good things for people and maybe
S10: even giving them free stuff. Uh, it's with a little
S10: life experience and a little economic understanding that later some
S10: of those young people will fortunately see the light and
S10: realize that what their professors told them was maybe the, uh,
S10: the velvet glove. They didn't tell them about what's inside,
S10: which is the Iron Fist.
S1: Yeah. Wow. Is that well said? But when you ticked
S1: off some of those things that those professors teach in
S1: their tenured positions, you can see how even if you
S1: have just a thin understanding of who Jesus was, you
S1: can think, well, isn't that what he did? Isn't that
S1: who he was? Let me take a break. And when
S1: we come back, uh, there's so many questions in your
S1: excellent book, was Jesus a Socialist? Why this question is
S1: being asked again, and why? The answer is almost always wrong.
S1: By the way, I want to give you a chance
S1: to ask questions as well. 87754836758775483675. Learning to discern. Understanding
S1: the times in which we live. Being able to answer
S1: winsomely this exact question was Jesus a socialist? Is that
S1: what the scriptures teach? True or false? We're going to
S1: find out with Lawrence. Read more after this. When the
S1: storms of life hit with hurricane force, how do you respond?
S1: This month's truth tool is the Mediterranean Sea Rules, where
S1: Robert Morgan writes how God will redeem our tragedies for
S1: his purposes. Don't just survive the storms. Learn to serve
S1: God in the midst of them. As for your copy
S1: of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a gift
S1: of any amount in the market, call 87758. That's 877
S1: Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S11: Socialism to me is.
S12: Freedom a democratic economy.
S13: A social justice.
S12: Liberty council so well debt a system run by the
S12: people for the people.
S14: Freedom. It's oriented towards human need. Living in a world
S14: where there's no racism.
S15: And intonations.
S14: Sustainability.
S12: Justice.
S16: A non-alienated form of labor.
S17: You've got a purpose in life. No war.
S12: Solidarity, occupy your workplace.
S13: Character, people.
S12: Emancipation.
S11: Collective ownership of the means of production.
S17: No alienation.
S16: Freedom to be able to be a creative individual.
S12: To have a sustainable planet.
S11: Equality between genders, races, Liberty. People before profit.
S14: No. Sexism. No. Homophobia.
S12: Harmony. Solidarity.
S14: Liberation.
S12: Mobilization.
S14: Agency.
S11: Revolution is the next step.
S16: A place where people can make friends, throwing off individuality
S16: and becoming a collective.
S17: And you meet the best people in the world.
S12: Unity.
S15: Human liberation.
S12: Queer liberation, workers control. Not having to spend eight hours
S12: a day, five days a week selling my soul utopia.
S1: I mean, who would be opposed to socialism, right? It's
S1: also probably why, in a 2019 survey, more than 70%
S1: of millennials said that they would likely vote for a socialist.
S1: Which puts an interesting question on the table for Christ's followers.
S1: Was Jesus a socialist? That's the new book by Lawrence Reid,
S1: who's president emeritus of the Foundation for Economic Education. Thousands
S1: of articles give speeches literally around the world, and he's
S1: the author of this important book. Larry, what we just
S1: heard that if that truly is what people perceive socialism
S1: to be, it would be heaven on earth. It would
S1: be utopia. But were there definitions really accurate based on
S1: what you just said about one or all three of
S1: the points enumerated in our first segment?
S10: No, I don't think so. And the nub of it
S10: is this Janet. They fail to point out that the
S10: very essence of socialism requires the use of force. If
S10: you simply listen to the agendas of socialist candidates or
S10: socialist policy writers. It's not a laundry list of helpful
S10: suggestions for the comment box. What they propose over and
S10: over again, are compulsory, coercive programs, because they think that
S10: what they have in mind for you and your money
S10: is better than what you have in mind for you
S10: and your money. I mean, they talk about when they
S10: try to sell socialism, they talk in the bumper sticker
S10: language of compassion and caring and so forth. But you
S10: can do that under capitalism. In fact, I would argue
S10: there's a lot more caring and sharing and giving, uh,
S10: under capitalism than there is under socialism. You even see
S10: that between governments. Where does what's the flow of foreign aid?
S10: It goes from, uh, governments of largely capitalist countries to
S10: governments of largely socialist countries that always need to be
S10: bailed out. So the difference between, say, capitalism or free
S10: markets and socialism ultimately, is that under socialism, government has
S10: got a gun to your head. Everything it wants to
S10: do will be done not as a helpful suggestion, but
S10: as a compulsory coercive program.
S1: So forgive the sort of pedantic nature of this question,
S1: but there's a certain amount of hubris to that. What
S1: makes government think it's got all of the answers? Government
S1: is me. And so why would this select group say
S1: we know better than you? There's an arrogance to that.
S10: Oh, yeah. An arrogance and an absence of an understanding
S10: about the essence of power, which Lord Acton warned us, um,
S10: 150 years ago was, uh, corrupting at its very essence.
S10: It's a failure to understand even the track record of
S10: big government. I mean, if I showed up at your
S10: house and said when you came to the door, hey,
S10: I'd like to, uh, take charge of your life. And
S10: by the way, I should tell you that I'm already
S10: up to my eyeballs in debt and everything I touch
S10: turns to garbage. Uh, nothing that I, uh, try to
S10: do is ever accomplished very well or very cost effectively,
S10: but nonetheless put me in charge of your life. You'd
S10: laugh at me. And yet, that's what socialists are advocating
S10: every day.
S1: So what is the elixir? Or if I can mix
S1: my metaphors, what's the siren song here? When they did
S1: The Man on the Street and ask those people from
S1: Down Under what they thought of socialism. Almost all of
S1: them talked about the fact that they didn't have to
S1: sell their soul. They didn't have to work 9 to 5,
S1: that it was the implied, although the word wasn't used
S1: was basically free stuff. Who doesn't want free stuff?
S10: Yeah, well, that's another way of saying whether they would
S10: admit it or not, that what they're after is not
S10: having to serve others by offering them something of value
S10: in the marketplace. They just want a third party, the government,
S10: to take from other people and give to them. Um,
S10: when you say sold my soul, in terms of selling
S10: your labor and being employed by a private employer. What
S10: you're simply doing is you're engaging in a mutually beneficial
S10: collaborative arrangement, which results in the production of valuable goods
S10: and services that people will willingly trade with you for.
S10: And that's what we want in a free and peaceful society,
S10: not a place where the government says, don't worry, we're
S10: just going to take it from somebody and hand it
S10: over to you.
S1: Yeah. Wow. So well said. This is a problem, I
S1: think particularly in the church capital C universal. And that
S1: is we have a split opinion on whether or not work.
S1: And we can't talk about economics without talking about work,
S1: whether work is a blessing or whether it's a curse.
S1: And Jesus had an awful lot to say about providing
S1: for your household. So let me start with that. That
S1: primary question first, which is do I view work as
S1: a blessing, or do I view work as a burden?
S1: What's God's position on this?
S10: Well, I think God's position is that work is a blessing,
S10: especially when you are utilizing the talents that he gave
S10: you when you're using your mind. And when the end
S10: product is something that other people will say, hey, I'd
S10: like to have that. Can I offer you something in
S10: return for it? I mean, that's a very fulfilling, uh, endeavor. And,
S10: you know, in the world in which we live, what's
S10: the alternative to work if we just sit around and
S10: nobody works, there's nothing to redistribute. And so we'd all starve.
S10: So it's a necessity as well as a blessing.
S1: Yeah, absolutely. So we read in the scriptures that a
S1: workman is worth his hire. Jesus talks about the parable
S1: of the talents. Uh, here's another problem. And I find
S1: it particularly generational, which is somewhere along the line. We
S1: got the idea that wealth is anathema, particularly for Christians.
S1: I don't know if we credit the movie Wall Street
S1: with that more than what we read in scriptures, but
S1: does Jesus think that wealth is a bad thing? I mean,
S1: we go to the parable of the rich man and
S1: we think, oh, it must be awful because, hey, nobody's
S1: going to go through the eye of a needle, so
S1: it's got to be bad stuff.
S10: Yeah. The passage referring to the difficulty for the rich
S10: to go through or get to heaven as being as
S10: difficult as it is for a camel to go through
S10: the eye of a needle. That's often cited by socialists,
S10: but they missed the point. Jesus is saying, not that
S10: riches per se are evil and that you shouldn't aspire
S10: to them, but that they come with temptations and a
S10: good person of solid character will not let the wealth
S10: govern him or change his priorities.
S3: Wow.
S1: Fascinating conversation built around what I think is absolutely important,
S1: reading right from the headlines. But boy, when you walk
S1: into the marketplace of ideas, you're going to hear this
S1: Jesus is a socialist. You know, I actually debated and
S1: an interesting event in Washington, D.C., a man who had
S1: made a movie called Jesus Was a communism. My job
S1: was to disprove that if you go to the marketplace,
S1: would you know how to do that back after this?
S18: What is socialism? A trending hashtag on Twitter called Socialism
S18: Checklist tried to answer that question, but let's look at
S18: it more closely. Socialism is government, government centric, government heavy,
S18: government in control. But how does this affect us? Well,
S18: socialism is government telling you what to do. Socialism is
S18: government giving your money to others. Socialism is government bossing
S18: you around about your health care choices. Socialism is more government,
S18: less freedom, more bureaucracy, less liberty, more spending, less money
S18: for you, more bills, less health care. Socialism can't keep
S18: us safe. It can't provide for us more than temporarily.
S18: It can't help us succeed. Socialism isn't free stuff either.
S18: No matter what you hear, there's no such thing as
S18: free stuff. Somebody has to pay for it and that
S18: somebody is always us. Politicians will promise that socialism will
S18: make the playing field fair. It won't. It'll just take
S18: away our opportunity, everybody's opportunity to succeed, to win. Politicians
S18: promise socialism will take care of us. It won't. As
S18: Margaret Thatcher once said, the problem with socialism is that
S18: eventually you run out of other people's money. Socialism is
S18: a fake, a fraud, a farce. It's an altruistically based
S18: notion that amounts to nothing more than government taking control
S18: of our lives. It's been tried in Cuba, in Russia,
S18: in Greece. So what is socialism? It's always unequivocally against
S18: our nature as human beings. It's a disaster. It's an
S18: utter devastating failure.
S1: And yet some people think that Jesus was a socialist,
S1: which is why Lawrence Reid, professor emeritus of the Foundation
S1: for Economic Education, prolific author of both books and articles,
S1: has written the book Was Jesus a Socialist? Why this
S1: question is being asked again and why? The answer is
S1: almost always wrong. Larry, I was thinking, just for clarification,
S1: because I used the word communism just before the break.
S1: What is the linkage between socialism and communism?
S10: Well, there are two peas in the same pod, essentially. Janet.
S10: And the distinction, to the extent there is one, depends
S10: a lot on whose usage of the terms you are
S10: referring to. If you go back to Karl Marx, the
S10: godfather of both socialism and communism, he did draw a distinction.
S10: He said that communism would be the end result of
S10: the evolution of history. And in that final phase, as
S10: if he was some kind of a fortune teller, you'd
S10: actually have government withering away, and everybody would voluntarily share
S10: and share alike. And on the way to that, you'd
S10: have to pass, he said, through the phase of socialism,
S10: which he described as the dictatorship of the proletariat. And
S10: during that phase, the government would be all powerful, and
S10: it would stomp on people until it wiped out any
S10: remaining vestige of things like self-interest and the profit motive
S10: and private property. But the very notion that communism would
S10: involve government withering away is one of the dumbest things
S10: that Marx ever came up with. I mean, can you
S10: imagine a group of people who have total power in
S10: their hands, total government. And that some some point they
S10: just say, okay, we're done, we're out of here. See
S10: you later. I mean, that just never happens and it's
S10: not going to happen. Uh, in actual practice these days,
S10: there's not a whole lot of distinction. Socialism. Uh, you know,
S10: a lot of socialists like to say, well, we're not
S10: there yet. We're working on communism. But socialism in the
S10: meantime will help us get there. But it all ends
S10: up in the same, same government at the top, controlling
S10: everybody approach to life.
S1: I'm so glad you said that. That's important for clarification.
S1: So one more term, because these are things our friends
S1: all across the country hear on a regular basis. Is
S1: there a distinction to be found in the words democratic socialist?
S10: Uh, I don't think so. That's, uh, sort of, uh,
S10: lip gloss on the on the pig. Uh, a lot
S10: of socials these days realize that if they if they
S10: advocate what socialism ultimately ends up meaning, they're not going
S10: to get many adherents. So they say. Oh, no. What
S10: we mean is going to be arrived at by democracy,
S10: by a vote. Well, that doesn't sanctify it. I mean,
S10: any more than, uh, you know, the southern states once
S10: had Jim Crow laws enacted democratically. Slavery was once legal. Uh, Democratic, uh,
S10: is just a veneer. Uh, but in the end, it
S10: results in nothing more than a concentrated use of political force.
S1: Mhm. Well (877) 548-3675. Vicky, you're in Wisconsin. I thank you
S1: so much for joining us. And your question please Vicky
S1: are you there. We're going to come back to Vicky
S1: in a little bit. Let me continue if I can.
S1: I asked you before about Jesus talking about the rich man.
S1: And there's a takeaway, Larry, in that, that some people think, well,
S1: somehow richness is anathema to God, that, uh, you know,
S1: you talk about taking vows of poverty, that somehow being
S1: impoverished is a more holy, if I can put it
S1: that way, uh, position to be in and that wealth
S1: is to be abhorred. How do we answer that?
S10: Well, the very notion that Jesus would ever say that
S10: whether or not you can be saved, whether or not
S10: you get to heaven, depends upon how much money you
S10: have or how little money you have flouts the very
S10: essence of Christianity, which is something from the heart. It's
S10: a personal choice to accept Christ as a Savior. It's not,
S10: you know, how much material wealth you've accumulated in this world.
S10: Jesus many times warned that with wealth comes temptations. But
S10: he never said that no human can overcome them, or
S10: that a human cannot be a good Christian who's accepted
S10: him as their Savior and also be very productive in
S10: the marketplace. Remember, he drove money changers from the temple.
S10: He never drove them from a marketplace or a bank.
S1: That's an excellent response, by the way. I want my
S1: friends to know that later today I'm going to be
S1: posting on my Facebook page. Make sure you hear this.
S1: Not my website and my Facebook page. Uh, Lawrence reads
S1: superb encapsulation on this question. Was Jesus a socialist that
S1: he did for Prager University? Prager University puts out some
S1: really powerful videos. Do I know that they're good? Yes.
S1: I'll tell you why. Because every time we turn around,
S1: Facebook is trying to shut him down. Do I need
S1: to say anything else? But Larry did a superb one
S1: on this question. Was Jesus a socialist? I'm going to
S1: make that easy for you to find by putting it
S1: on my Facebook in the market with Janet Parshall. That's
S1: the Facebook address. Like it there. We're going to come
S1: back more on this conversation with Lawrence Reed on his book,
S1: Was Jesus a Socialist after this? Friends, this is Janet Parshall,
S1: and I want to take a moment to remind you
S1: that today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines aren't open.
S1: But I sure do appreciate your spending the hour with us.
S1: And thanks so much and enjoy the rest of the program.
S1: We live in a culture that's infatuated with the latest fads,
S1: but Ephesians 415 calls for us to be stable, no
S1: longer infants, Paul said, tossed about by the waves and
S1: carried about by every wind of teaching on in the market.
S1: We're exposing current trends and finding our balance by standing
S1: on the solid foundation of God's Word. To get exclusive
S1: behind the scenes information and benefits, become a partial partner.
S1: Call eight 7758 or go online to in the market
S1: with Janet Parshall.
S19: When you see around the globe the mal distribution of wealth,
S19: the the desperate plight of millions of people in underdeveloped countries.
S19: When you see so few haves and so many have nots,
S19: when you when you see the greed and the concentration
S19: of power within, aren't you ever did you ever have
S19: a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a
S19: good idea to run on.
S20: Well, first of all, tell me, is there some society
S20: you know that doesn't run on greed? Do you think
S20: Russia doesn't run on greed? You think China doesn't run
S20: on greed? What is greed? Of course none of us
S20: are greedy. It's only the other fellow who's greedy. This.
S20: The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The
S20: great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus.
S20: Einstein didn't construct his theory under order from a from
S20: a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didn't revolutionize the automobile industry that way.
S20: In the only cases in which the masses have escaped
S20: from the kind of grinding poverty you're talking about, the
S20: only cases in recorded history are where they have had
S20: capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know
S20: where the masses are worse, worse off, worse off. It's
S20: exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that,
S20: so that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear
S20: that there is no alternative way, so far discovered, of
S20: improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold
S20: a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by
S20: a free enterprise system.
S19: It seems to reward not virtue as much as ability
S19: to manipulate the system.
S20: And what does reward virtue? You think the Communist commissar
S20: rewards virtue? Do you think a Hitler rewards virtue? Do
S20: you think? Excuse me, if you'll pardon me. Do you
S20: think American presidents reward virtue? Do they choose their appointees
S20: on the basis of the virtue of the people appointed,
S20: or on the basis of their political clout? Is it
S20: really true that political self-interest is nobler somehow than economic self-interest?
S20: You know, I think you're taking a lot of things
S20: for granted. And just tell me where in the world
S20: you find these angels who are going to organize society
S20: for us. Well, I don't even trust you to do that.
S1: I think Milton Friedman got the best of Phil Donahue
S1: in that little repartee. Lawrence Reed is with us. Absolutely
S1: fascinating book in my classroom. It should be required reading
S1: the book is entitled Was Jesus a Socialist? Why this
S1: question is being asked again and why? The answer is
S1: almost always wrong. Larry, by the way, is president emeritus
S1: of the Foundation for Economic Education, the author of several books,
S1: thousands of articles, and literally travels the world giving speeches.
S1: There's something inherent in that repartee between the two that
S1: I want to pull out. And that's this idea that
S1: Donahue posits that somehow it's the haves and the have nots.
S1: You write about this in the book and you call
S1: it the gospel of envy, that somehow everybody straight across
S1: the board should be guaranteed an equal outcome. Understanding the
S1: basics and nature of man. Even if I got what
S1: my neighbor got, I'd still want more. That's just the
S1: way it is. But isn't this also implied in the
S1: Ten Commandments? If I'm not supposed to covet my neighbor's goods?
S1: Isn't that a part of this as well?
S10: Oh, it sure is, Janet. The eighth of the 10th commandments.
S10: Ten commandments. Uh, very explicitly says thou shalt not covet. Uh.
S10: Or thou shalt not steal is the eighth. I'm sorry.
S10: The 10th is. Thou shalt not covet. I'd like to
S10: think that maybe, uh, as God put those things together
S10: to hand to Moses, he may have thought by the
S10: time he got to number ten. Uh, even though I've
S10: already said thou shalt not steal, some people are still
S10: going to look for reasons to do it, and they'll
S10: usually envy and covet first. So I better add another one.
S10: And that, perhaps, is how number ten got there. Thou
S10: shalt not covet if it doesn't belong to you. Uh, don't, uh,
S10: you know, don't count the other guy's blessings. Count your own.
S1: Well, you know, I remember sitting in a meeting with
S1: Jack Kemp in DC years ago where he talked about
S1: the fact that really what we should be striving to
S1: do in this country is to create a level playing
S1: field of opportunity. But my ability to flourish is going
S1: to be incumbent upon what I do. My commitment to
S1: a work ethic. What I'm willing to sacrifice. What I'm
S1: willing to make my goals. I can't guarantee that from
S1: my neighbor, can I?
S10: No. Absolutely not. And each of us is a unique
S10: result of endless personal traits and qualities, as well as
S10: the environment in which we were raised. So you're never
S10: going to achieve perfect equality, not in a world of
S10: of very different people. In fact, we are so different
S10: that no two people who have ever lived on this
S10: planet have been precisely the same. The same person didn't
S10: live twice. In other words, uh, so, uh, to be
S10: fully who you were intended to be and who you are,
S10: you have to have considerable degree of choice over how
S10: you run your life. And inevitably, personal choice means some
S10: people are going to go in this direction, others are
S10: going to go in other directions. We're not going to
S10: end up being the same. I don't lament that. I
S10: rejoice in the differences that suggest we're being who each
S10: of us is meant to be. As unique, unique individual.
S1: Um, talk to me about Axe the Book of Acts,
S1: because I hear this cited often as look, there's an
S1: example of the early church using a social assistance socialistic
S1: system that they had equal distribution of wealth. Therefore, doesn't
S1: the Bible then undergird and support the concept of socialism?
S1: How do we respond?
S10: Yeah, you hear that a lot. Well, it's true that
S10: some of the early Christians, as recorded in the book
S10: of acts, did decide that they were going to sell
S10: a good portion of their possessions. Not everything, in fact,
S10: because even subsequent passages talk about them continuing to meet
S10: in their own home. So they didn't sell their homes. But, um,
S10: the fact is that that was peculiar to a unique
S10: moment in time. It was descriptive of a of a
S10: particular group of early Christians. There is no passage, no
S10: statement from Jesus himself that ever says to a broader audience,
S10: that's the way everybody should live for all time. And
S10: in fact, that very practice of putting everything in kind
S10: of a common storehouse and then dividing it up equally.
S10: That died out very early. That was a practice used
S10: for a very brief time, never intended to be practiced
S10: by all people of all time, and every time it
S10: is practiced, it falls apart.
S1: Yeah. Yes. And we have world history as our tutorial
S1: on all of this, which is so interesting. You talk
S1: about the convolution that can extrapolated out of the story
S1: of the Good Samaritan. Um, there's so much to that story,
S1: but seeing it as a way of somehow government controlled
S1: programs is not a takeaway I've ever had since I
S1: heard it the first time in Sunday school. Unpack that
S1: for us.
S10: Yeah, I know there are people. I hear it all
S10: the time who think the Good Samaritan story somehow makes
S10: a case, at least for the welfare state, that brand
S10: of of socialism. But keep in mind what happened in
S10: that story as told by Jesus himself. The Samaritan came
S10: along a road and came upon a man who was
S10: desperately in need. He'd been beaten and robbed. And what
S10: did the Samaritan do? He did not say to the man, well,
S10: why don't you contact your social worker? Or maybe there's
S10: a government program for you. See you later. What he
S10: did was. And this is what made him good, he
S10: chose to help the man of his own free will
S10: and from his own resources. If he had done any
S10: of those other things that socialists would normally advise, we
S10: wouldn't think of him today as the Good Samaritan. We'd
S10: think of him as the good for nothing Samaritan.
S1: And Larry, again, there's so many deep levels to this story,
S1: not the least of which is a story of racism.
S1: The Jews despise the Samaritans. It's not by happenstance. It
S1: seems to me that Jesus has the story that the
S1: good we put the good so often is the accent word,
S1: but for me the takeaway is the Samaritan. Nobody else
S1: would do this but these rotten Samaritans, which was a
S1: racial epithet used by the Jews. When they called somebody
S1: a horrible name, they would call them a Samaritan. They
S1: would bypass Samaria. That's why Jesus and John, for meeting
S1: the woman there, is so significant. He's tearing down so
S1: many boundaries. But it was a story of a man
S1: who was despised, representing a race of people despised by
S1: the Jews doing the right thing. Jesus was preparing the
S1: ground for the receptivity of the gospel, it seems to me.
S10: That's right. And, uh, there's also a passage immediately before the, uh,
S10: story talks about what the Samaritan did of two other
S10: people who came by. One was, uh, a kind of
S10: church bureaucrat, uh, or, uh, synagogue bureaucrat, a Levite. And
S10: the other one was a government bureaucrat. And, and you
S10: might say, well, surely those guys would have helped, but
S10: they didn't. It's the despised Samaritan who showed what he
S10: truly had in his heart when he chose of his
S10: own free will to help the man.
S1: Yeah. Excellent. You talked about government. You write about this
S1: in the book. And I'm so glad, because this is
S1: one of those passages that gets tortured ad nauseam. What
S1: did Jesus mean when he talked about rendering under Caesar
S1: that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's?
S10: Well, he certainly didn't mean, as some socialists seem to think,
S10: that anything that Caesar claims, even if he wants everything, uh,
S10: is somehow his for the taking. Uh, that I mean,
S10: that would be absurd. It was a very clever response
S10: on the part of Jesus to the Pharisees who were
S10: trying to trick him. They held up a coin with
S10: the image of Augustus, the emperor. Uh, Roman emperor on
S10: the coin and wanted to know, what do we do
S10: with this? Or who does it belong to? They wanted
S10: to catch Jesus in the trap of advocating tax evasion,
S10: and instead Jesus said, render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
S10: And he didn't say it was Caesar's. He just said,
S10: if it was, well, then give it to him. But
S10: he left it for us to decide whether or not
S10: that really belongs to Caesar. It was a very clever response,
S10: and to assume from what Jesus said, that he was
S10: endorsing anything that Caesar would do with the money, no
S10: matter how he gets it or what he wastes it
S10: on or spends it on is absolutely absurd.
S1: Could not agree more. Wow. Larry, the book is excellent.
S1: Let me take a break and come back. The book
S1: is called Was Jesus a Socialist? Why? This question is
S1: being asked again and why? The why? The answer is
S1: almost always wrong. By the way, I have posted on
S1: my Facebook page now this multi-million viewed Prager University piece
S1: that Larry did. He answers the question. He does a
S1: superb job in a five minute video explaining exactly what
S1: socialism is. Watch it and then send it to somebody else.
S1: And let's get the word out there. This is an
S1: absolute convolution of Scripture, and it's a dangerous governmental paradigm
S1: if we really do care about other people. In fact,
S1: on that note, when we come back, what about Jesus?
S1: Was he a social justice warrior? We'll find out what
S1: Larry Reid has to say about that when we return.
S21: Here in the United States, we are alarmed by the
S21: new calls to adopt socialism in our country. America was
S21: founded on liberty and independence and not government coercion, domination
S21: and control. We are born free and we will stay free.
S21: Tonight we renew our resolve that America will never be
S21: a socialist country.
S1: As the president of the United States delivering a state
S1: of the Union address, talking about America's declaration that we
S1: will never be a socialist country. Lawrence Reid is with us,
S1: president emeritus of the Foundation for Economic Education. And the
S1: author of the book Was Jesus a Socialist? Larry, I
S1: have to tell you, I've saved this clip. I deem
S1: it to be historical audio because I felt like I
S1: got hit in the solar plexus. When in the world
S1: did we have to sit and hear a president make
S1: the declaration? We would not be socialist. If a president
S1: has to make that statement, then the tendril outreaches of
S1: this deadly doctrine have already infiltrated our country.
S10: Oh, yeah. In fact, I've written an article entitled A
S10: Virus Worse Than the One from Wuhan. And the virus
S10: I'm talking about is socialism. It's it's a it's a cancer.
S1: So it goes to this idea that Jesus was a
S1: social justice warrior. And you start this chapter by saying
S1: that there was an editorial, it was actually a headline
S1: written by a pastor in the Guardian that said Jesus
S1: was on the side of the poor and the exploited.
S1: Christian politicians should remember that we hear this again and
S1: again and again. And quite frankly, if you're biblically illiterate,
S1: you hear that and you think, I guess that's right,
S1: I think that's right. And you follow the Pied Piper,
S1: break this down for me, because I'm not quite sure
S1: that Jesus was interested in economic status as was as
S1: much as he was interested in heart conditions. So talk
S1: to me about this.
S10: Well, you're absolutely right on that, Janet. Jesus was no
S10: social justice warrior in the context of the way that
S10: word or that phrase is used today. Today, it's really
S10: not much more than a license for the government to
S10: rob Peter, to pay Paul, and sometimes even to punish
S10: people for the sins of ancestors five generations before. Jesus
S10: never advocated anything like that. He was in favor of
S10: each person getting his or her due. He was opposed
S10: to stealing. He warned against the concentration of power. He
S10: warned against the, uh, putting money as the priority in
S10: your life, ahead of loving God and things like that.
S10: But he didn't advocate the forcible redistribution of wealth, which
S10: is what social justice comes, has come to mean today.
S10: In fact, we have time. I could even cite a
S10: passage from the Bible in that regard.
S1: Please, Please.
S10: Well, I'm thinking of the book of Luke, chapter 12,
S10: verses 13 through 15. A man approaches Jesus and says, master,
S10: speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.
S10: In other words, hey, how about a little social justice here?
S10: I don't think I got a fair shake. Why don't
S10: you equalize? Use your power to equalize the wealth here
S10: a little bit. And Jesus did not say anything like. Well,
S10: we'll take a look at it. Uh, or maybe. Yeah,
S10: you should get more at the other guy's expense. Instead
S10: he said, man, who made me a judge or divider
S10: over you? Take heed and beware of covetousness. I mean,
S10: can you imagine a socialist ever saying that they are
S10: trying to be judges and dividers over the rest of
S10: us all the time?
S1: Yeah, exactly. You make a profound statement that you say
S1: you've used for decades. In the book. You say free
S1: people are not equal. Equal people are not free. And
S1: you're not talking about equality before the law. Explain the
S1: statement to us.
S10: Yes, equality before the law is a is a great thing.
S10: The idea that the law should be impartial and should
S10: render judgment about innocence and guilt based on whether or
S10: not you did it, not skin color and things like that.
S10: But economic equality is a very different thing. The notion
S10: that you should possess the same material wealth as as
S10: other people. We are not the same one person to another.
S10: We're different in terms of the talents we have. We
S10: don't even all recognize what our respective highest or best
S10: talent is. At the same time in our lives, we're
S10: different in terms of our willingness to work. We're different.
S10: Different in terms of our willingness to save. I mean,
S10: if we equalized everybody tonight, materially speaking, we'd have inequality
S10: by noon tomorrow because some people would save it and
S10: some people would spend it. So this illusion that we
S10: can somehow use the government to force economic equality on
S10: us only produces disaster. It's anti-human nature, it's counterproductive, and
S10: it certainly isn't biblical.
S1: You cite two theologians who you say, got it right,
S1: and I would love to spend another hour talking about both,
S1: but let me go to one at least. And that's C.S. Lewis.
S1: What did he offer to this conversation?
S10: Oh my gosh, I love C.S. Lewis. C.S. Lewis, of course,
S10: didn't spend a lot of time in his thought and
S10: writing looking at government, but whenever he did, he was decisively, uh, insightful.
S10: He recognized that government is the concentration of power and
S10: that humans are flawed. We are, by definition, a fallen people.
S10: And the worst thing you want to do is to
S10: give a fallen people concentrated, uh, coercive political power the
S10: moment they get it. It corrupts them and even takes
S10: a good person and makes it very difficult for that
S10: person to remain good. It's a it's a cancer. And, uh,
S10: he felt that there was nothing biblical or scriptural about
S10: concentrating power in earthly politicians who are eager to run
S10: the lives of other people well.
S1: Concentrated power would be the story of the Tower of Babel,
S1: and we know how that ended. So. Obviously there is
S1: an opposition there. I have to ask this question, though,
S1: just simply watching cultural trends. Larry, from your vantage point,
S1: why has this this nefarious, insidious, dangerous and deadly idea?
S1: I can I could go on with the adjectives. Why
S1: has it found fertile soil in America today? What have
S1: we done as a nation that has given the idea
S1: that this is a good option?
S10: I think of over a hundred years ago, Janet, we
S10: slowly began to adopt a kind of moral relativism. We were,
S10: we were told by academics and intellectuals that truth is
S10: a relative thing. It depends on the person. Nothing is absolute,
S10: and we're burying the awful consequences of that.
S1: Yeah, I could not agree with you more. Oh, Larry,
S1: I could spend hours and hours. There's so much more
S1: in the book I didn't get a chance to cover.
S1: But I do hope I've done one thing, and that
S1: is to pique the interest of my listeners today to
S1: get this book and to be able to answer the question.
S1: You just heard me use a plethora of adjectives I
S1: could have gone on. This is dangerous. And then when
S1: you reconstruct a gospel of your own creation and subscribe
S1: to Jesus, the antithesis of who he was, he was
S1: anything but a socialist, then you not only have bad
S1: and economic opportunities for people by putting in a system
S1: that's deadly, but you also have horrible theology as well,
S1: and that's almost a triple headed hydra. The book is
S1: called Was Jesus a Socialist? Why? This question is being
S1: asked again, and why? The answer is almost always wrong.
S1: If you'll go to my Facebook page and the address
S1: there is in the market with Janet Parshall, like me,
S1: go to the Facebook page. And Larry did a superb
S1: piece for Prager University that asked the asked the question
S1: Was Jesus a socialist? And in this five minute video
S1: gives a superb response. I posted it on my Facebook
S1: page for your enjoyment. We'll see you next time, friends.