1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:09,200 S1: Welcome to our Thursday edition of Chris Fabry Live. And 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,240 S1: let me begin with candor. I have not been looking 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:16,520 S1: forward to today's program. The topic is heavy. It's hard. 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,279 S1: It's full of so much pain and hurt and struggle. 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,360 S1: I know I shouldn't start a program saying all that, 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:28,120 S1: but tackling the topic of childhood sexual abuse is difficult. 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,720 S1: But I had a change of heart this morning, a 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,800 S1: mindset change, and I began to look forward to what 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,680 S1: you're about to hear. Because number one, I believe somebody's 10 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,680 S1: going to be set free today because of the conversation 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,479 S1: we're about to have. I believe the chains the enemy 12 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,400 S1: has used to shackle someone are going to get a 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,360 S1: little looser because of this conversation. And you if this 14 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:57,040 S1: is your experience, you're going to hear hope. And number two, 15 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,780 S1: I love to hear stories of courage. You see the video? 16 00:01:00,820 --> 00:01:04,380 S1: The police officer who recently ran into the burning house. 17 00:01:04,380 --> 00:01:06,660 S1: I just saw it. I think it was yesterday. You 18 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:09,700 S1: see this from the door camera, the ring bell, the 19 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:13,100 S1: whatever that thing is. So the police officer comes and 20 00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:16,300 S1: he kicks the door in and the heat is just overwhelming. 21 00:01:16,740 --> 00:01:19,780 S1: And he waits and he waits and then kind of 22 00:01:19,860 --> 00:01:24,660 S1: steels himself, gathers himself and runs past the camera. And 23 00:01:24,660 --> 00:01:27,820 S1: you are waiting there. You see the flames licking around 24 00:01:27,819 --> 00:01:31,300 S1: the door, and you are waiting and you are hoping. 25 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:34,820 S1: And then all of a sudden, a few moments later, 26 00:01:34,819 --> 00:01:37,700 S1: here he is, rushing past the opening with a child 27 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:42,140 S1: in his arms, running down the stairs, coughing and getting 28 00:01:42,140 --> 00:01:46,220 S1: that child to safety. There are some people who run 29 00:01:46,220 --> 00:01:52,060 S1: toward danger. They run toward the hurting. They run toward pain. 30 00:01:52,740 --> 00:01:56,500 S1: It's not that they have no fear. It's that their 31 00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:00,430 S1: care for the ones who are hurting trumps that fear, 32 00:02:00,870 --> 00:02:03,910 S1: that anxiety. And I want you to hear from two 33 00:02:03,910 --> 00:02:06,470 S1: of those people today. And I want you to know 34 00:02:06,470 --> 00:02:10,070 S1: about an excellent documentary that is just out from music 35 00:02:10,070 --> 00:02:12,150 S1: for the soul. We're going to do all that and 36 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:14,510 S1: more straight ahead on Chris Fabry Live, which is the 37 00:02:14,510 --> 00:02:16,670 S1: program From the Heart to the heart for the heart. 38 00:02:16,990 --> 00:02:19,630 S1: Let me thank our team, Ryan McConaughey doing all things technical. 39 00:02:19,630 --> 00:02:22,470 S1: Trish is our producer. Lisa is helping out. Josh will 40 00:02:22,470 --> 00:02:24,550 S1: be answering your calls if you want to call us. 41 00:02:25,389 --> 00:02:27,950 S1: And also thank you back fence friends and partners. Your 42 00:02:27,950 --> 00:02:31,870 S1: support means we get to have a conversation like this 43 00:02:32,350 --> 00:02:36,190 S1: and the possibility of somebody being set free. And if 44 00:02:36,190 --> 00:02:38,269 S1: you want to give a gift to help us continue, 45 00:02:38,270 --> 00:02:41,989 S1: two ways to reach out, go to Chris fabry.org, where 46 00:02:41,990 --> 00:02:44,310 S1: you'll see all the information we're going to talk about today, 47 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:46,990 S1: but also a way to support us. Or you can 48 00:02:46,990 --> 00:02:51,510 S1: call 86695 Fabry. We talked with John Geiger a little 49 00:02:51,510 --> 00:02:56,310 S1: earlier this week about powerful self-talk from the Psalms, and 50 00:02:56,310 --> 00:02:58,929 S1: we'll be talking about some of the lies that victims 51 00:02:58,930 --> 00:03:02,970 S1: of abuse believe. But we can all believe or say 52 00:03:02,970 --> 00:03:05,850 S1: things to ourselves during the the day that aren't true. 53 00:03:05,889 --> 00:03:09,890 S1: Counteract those negative voices with truth from the Psalms. Again, 54 00:03:09,930 --> 00:03:12,570 S1: we'd love to send you a copy of Powerful Self-Talk 55 00:03:12,570 --> 00:03:15,010 S1: from the Psalms. Just give a gift of any size. 56 00:03:15,370 --> 00:03:24,769 S1: Chris Fabry live.org or call (866) 953-2279. We have featured Steve 57 00:03:24,810 --> 00:03:28,530 S1: Siler on this program several times through the years, and 58 00:03:28,530 --> 00:03:31,329 S1: he always brings a heart of compassion for people who've 59 00:03:31,330 --> 00:03:34,329 S1: had some kind of life experience that has kept them 60 00:03:34,330 --> 00:03:38,810 S1: stuck in some painful struggle. His ministry's music for the soul. 61 00:03:39,010 --> 00:03:42,730 S1: He's an accomplished songwriter music producer with more than 500 62 00:03:42,730 --> 00:03:48,330 S1: songs recorded in gospel country pop genres Kenny Loggins, Kenny Rogers, 63 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:52,090 S1: Smokey Robinson, The Oak Ridge Boys and more have sung 64 00:03:52,130 --> 00:03:55,530 S1: his songs. He's written three books, co-hosted the music for 65 00:03:55,530 --> 00:04:00,020 S1: the Soul podcast. His latest is a documentary that released 66 00:04:00,020 --> 00:04:03,380 S1: a week ago. It's titled Innocent Child. We have it 67 00:04:03,380 --> 00:04:07,420 S1: linked at Chris Fabry, live.org. And, Steve, come on in here. 68 00:04:07,420 --> 00:04:10,020 S1: You you wrote me an email and you said this 69 00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:15,220 S1: project has been literally 35 years in the making. This 70 00:04:15,220 --> 00:04:19,140 S1: is the issue that brought me into the world of ministry. 71 00:04:19,180 --> 00:04:20,180 S1: Explain that. 72 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:24,540 S2: Thank you, Chris, for the opportunity to to share this, 73 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:28,420 S2: this story. Uh, yeah, I was it was the late 74 00:04:28,420 --> 00:04:32,260 S2: 1980s and I was minding my own business. One day 75 00:04:32,260 --> 00:04:36,620 S2: the phone rang and this gentleman was calling me. He said, 76 00:04:36,620 --> 00:04:40,940 S2: I've licensed a children's book on childhood sexual abuse, and 77 00:04:40,940 --> 00:04:44,020 S2: I'm looking to do a stage musical. And I wanted 78 00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:45,859 S2: to have songs, and I think you're the guy who's 79 00:04:45,860 --> 00:04:48,740 S2: supposed to write them. He had just so happened to 80 00:04:48,779 --> 00:04:51,140 S2: have visited my church on a, on a Sunday when 81 00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:53,780 S2: I had sung one of my originals. And, and, uh, 82 00:04:54,060 --> 00:04:55,940 S2: this was an answer to prayer for me because I 83 00:04:55,940 --> 00:04:58,880 S2: had been feeling like my career was going nowhere, and 84 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,560 S2: I had asked God to send me something. Uh, and 85 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,560 S2: this was the answer to that prayer. Uh, Innocent Child 86 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:10,719 S2: was one of the four songs I wrote to, uh, 87 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,760 S2: go along with this book and this stage play. And, uh, 88 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,520 S2: after I wrote it, one thing led to another. We 89 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,000 S2: did this ministry for three years presenting this play all 90 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,719 S2: over Southern California, and we were invited to an incest 91 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,760 S2: survivor's conference. And Steven, my partner, who was the singer, 92 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,080 S2: couldn't go. And that's how I wound up in a 93 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,840 S2: room full of survivors at this closing ceremony, there were 94 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,360 S2: 300 women in the room, and there was a piano 95 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,240 S2: in the middle, and they asked me to sing, and 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,000 S2: I started singing Innocent Child. And I was about two 97 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,599 S2: lines in, and the tears and the sobbing started coming 98 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,680 S2: from around the room, and it just felt like I 99 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,600 S2: was going to pass out. I could I just could 100 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,290 S2: hardly catch my breath. And when I finished singing the song, 101 00:05:59,330 --> 00:06:03,890 S2: I just burst into convulsive sobs for about ten minutes. 102 00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:08,089 S2: All weekend long I'd been told not to hug any 103 00:06:08,089 --> 00:06:12,650 S2: of the women there for obvious reasons. Uh. When I 104 00:06:12,650 --> 00:06:15,330 S2: pulled myself together and looked up, there was a line 105 00:06:15,370 --> 00:06:19,450 S2: of women waiting to hug me, and one of them 106 00:06:19,450 --> 00:06:21,930 S2: said to me, people have been telling me I was 107 00:06:21,930 --> 00:06:25,650 S2: an innocent child my whole life. I never believed it 108 00:06:25,690 --> 00:06:30,770 S2: until I heard you sing it today. And I knew 109 00:06:30,810 --> 00:06:33,410 S2: that what she had just said was was important and 110 00:06:33,410 --> 00:06:36,650 S2: that I was supposed to do something about it. And 111 00:06:36,650 --> 00:06:38,930 S2: it took a while for it to to coalesce. But 112 00:06:38,930 --> 00:06:40,970 S2: what I was supposed to do was form music for 113 00:06:40,970 --> 00:06:44,010 S2: the soul and sing about the things people can't talk about, 114 00:06:44,970 --> 00:06:49,370 S2: and not me singing, other people singing, but me providing 115 00:06:49,370 --> 00:06:54,770 S2: those songs. Uh, and you know, the way these projects 116 00:06:54,770 --> 00:06:57,270 S2: have come about in the order of which they've come about, 117 00:06:57,310 --> 00:07:01,270 S2: has really been God ordained. But all along, I felt 118 00:07:01,270 --> 00:07:04,630 S2: a deep burden for dealing with this issue through music, 119 00:07:04,630 --> 00:07:08,230 S2: for the soul. Because literally, as you shared earlier, I 120 00:07:08,270 --> 00:07:13,590 S2: feel like the survivor community community gifted me the ministry 121 00:07:13,870 --> 00:07:16,550 S2: that I have. And so I wanted to circle back 122 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:19,950 S2: around and do something meaningful, to say thank you and 123 00:07:19,950 --> 00:07:23,750 S2: to offer the opportunity for hope and healing and, and 124 00:07:23,750 --> 00:07:25,790 S2: for people to break the silence and for us to 125 00:07:25,830 --> 00:07:30,070 S2: raise awareness about this issue. So that's how come it 126 00:07:30,470 --> 00:07:33,070 S2: has been 35 years, because it all started with that 127 00:07:33,070 --> 00:07:34,350 S2: song so many years ago. 128 00:07:34,670 --> 00:07:40,670 S1: Okay, so it dropped, opened up for business, as they say. Uh, 129 00:07:40,750 --> 00:07:44,870 S1: the documentary a week ago was Thursday last week. What 130 00:07:44,870 --> 00:07:45,950 S1: have you heard so far? 131 00:07:47,950 --> 00:07:53,030 S2: I have heard stories that bring me, uh, it's weird, Chris, 132 00:07:53,070 --> 00:07:55,490 S2: because it brings you deep sadness and deep joy all 133 00:07:55,490 --> 00:07:59,730 S2: at the same time, because you're hearing about somebody beginning 134 00:07:59,730 --> 00:08:03,530 S2: to break free and saying, that's how I felt. That's 135 00:08:03,530 --> 00:08:07,570 S2: my story that, you know, those are words I've said. 136 00:08:07,570 --> 00:08:10,970 S2: Those are feelings I've had, and I'm not alone anymore. 137 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:15,370 S2: You know, people feel seen and heard and understood. And 138 00:08:15,410 --> 00:08:18,010 S2: of course, we know the Lord meets us wherever we are. 139 00:08:18,010 --> 00:08:20,690 S2: But sometimes you just need to hear another person with 140 00:08:20,690 --> 00:08:24,650 S2: flesh on say, yeah, that's my story too. Yeah. 141 00:08:25,090 --> 00:08:31,050 S1: And it is, it is hard to, to, to watch 142 00:08:31,130 --> 00:08:34,250 S1: because there is so much emotion. And you sure you 143 00:08:34,250 --> 00:08:38,810 S1: put yourself in the place and it's mainly women who 144 00:08:38,850 --> 00:08:41,410 S1: are talking. I think it's all women. But you told 145 00:08:41,410 --> 00:08:43,810 S1: me before we went on the program, there are men 146 00:08:43,850 --> 00:08:47,010 S1: who are seeing this and men are responding too, right? 147 00:08:47,410 --> 00:08:50,410 S2: Oh, absolutely. I'll just share one quick story I heard 148 00:08:50,410 --> 00:08:54,900 S2: from a therapist this morning who, uh, has been counseling 149 00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:57,020 S2: this couple for many years, and she does two hour 150 00:08:57,020 --> 00:09:01,939 S2: sessions with them. And she was helping the woman with 151 00:09:01,940 --> 00:09:05,100 S2: her child abuse story, and the man was just not 152 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,460 S2: being supportive at all. The husband was just not, not 153 00:09:08,460 --> 00:09:10,540 S2: there for her and actually got angry and got up 154 00:09:10,540 --> 00:09:15,300 S2: and left the room, but then came back several minutes 155 00:09:15,300 --> 00:09:20,380 S2: later and confessed that it was his story too, and 156 00:09:20,380 --> 00:09:22,740 S2: his wife had never known. And so now here's this 157 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:26,219 S2: couple that can lean into each other and give each 158 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:30,420 S2: other the support of that shared story. And, and there's 159 00:09:30,420 --> 00:09:32,740 S2: a marriage that's going to make it and it's going 160 00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:35,660 S2: to find, you know, a new place and a new 161 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:39,740 S2: new way to support each other from, from that experience. So, 162 00:09:39,940 --> 00:09:42,860 S2: and that was from them watching a portion of this 163 00:09:42,860 --> 00:09:44,059 S2: documentary together. 164 00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:48,540 S1: It is the production values, you know, the lighting, the audio. 165 00:09:48,580 --> 00:09:50,700 S1: I always listen for the audio. And we're going to 166 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:53,920 S1: play a little bit from the documentary today here so 167 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,280 S1: that you can hear it. But I really want you 168 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,359 S1: or someone you know, they need to see this because 169 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:08,360 S1: the shackles are getting looser, the enemies firm grip on 170 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:13,240 S1: the silence can come off, can come from around that 171 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,199 S1: person's heart when they begin to see weight. If others 172 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,640 S1: can talk about this, others can say the truth about themselves, 173 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:24,400 S1: what they've experienced. Maybe I can do the same thing. 174 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,120 S1: I don't care how old you are. I don't care 175 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,560 S1: how long ago this happened, that can happen. Okay, so 176 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,880 S1: that's Steve Siler, the co-host, his co-host for music for 177 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,920 S1: the soul podcast speaker, singer, worship leader, and the author 178 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,160 S1: of the devotional Innocent Child is coming up. We're going 179 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,360 S1: to talk with Becky Nordquist straight ahead, and I'm going 180 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,440 S1: to open the phone lines to at eight seven, seven five, four, eight, three, 675. 181 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,809 S1: Maybe you've already seen the documentary. Or if you haven't, 182 00:10:53,809 --> 00:10:57,330 S1: go to the website kris.org. We've got a link for 183 00:10:57,330 --> 00:11:01,650 S1: you right there. Chris Fabry live dot ORG. More straight 184 00:11:01,650 --> 00:11:14,450 S1: ahead on Moody Radio. Steve Seiler of Music for the 185 00:11:14,450 --> 00:11:17,850 S1: soul is back with us today with something new. Usually 186 00:11:17,850 --> 00:11:21,290 S1: we play songs from him and we've got those, but 187 00:11:21,290 --> 00:11:24,850 S1: we've got a documentary that just released a week ago. 188 00:11:24,850 --> 00:11:28,650 S1: It's online. You can find Innocent Child a link to 189 00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:32,930 S1: that at Chris favorite.org. There's also a devotional that's been 190 00:11:32,929 --> 00:11:37,809 S1: written by Becky Nordqvist who returns. We talked with her 191 00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:41,610 S1: about with you, Becky, before instead of talking with you 192 00:11:41,610 --> 00:11:44,810 S1: in the third person. Uh, before we said hello, a 193 00:11:44,809 --> 00:11:49,170 S1: devotional for those grieving pregnancy or infant loss. Now, this 194 00:11:49,170 --> 00:11:53,590 S1: is innocent child devotions for healing from Childhood Sexual Abuse, 195 00:11:53,630 --> 00:11:58,230 S1: which coincides with your appearance in that documentary. So why 196 00:11:58,230 --> 00:12:00,470 S1: do you get all the easy topics, Becky? 197 00:12:01,630 --> 00:12:04,550 S3: Right. I'm going to ask God that someday. I think. 198 00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:06,950 S3: Thanks so much for having me back, Chris. It's always 199 00:12:06,950 --> 00:12:10,230 S3: a joy to chat with you and your listeners and 200 00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:13,630 S3: just really appreciate what you guys do at Moody as well. So, 201 00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:14,910 S3: and the real hope. 202 00:12:14,910 --> 00:12:18,350 S1: Here, the real hope here is that, you know, that 203 00:12:18,350 --> 00:12:21,110 S1: freedom that we're talking about. But this is a hard topic. 204 00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:23,030 S1: And I want to give a kind of a disclaimer 205 00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:26,630 S1: here that we're talking about childhood sexual abuse. So this 206 00:12:26,630 --> 00:12:30,830 S1: can be triggering for a lot of men or women. Right, Becky? 207 00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:35,150 S3: Oh, goodness. Yes. When you're talking about 1 in 4 208 00:12:35,150 --> 00:12:39,309 S3: women by the age of 18 and 1 in 6 men, uh, 209 00:12:39,550 --> 00:12:42,430 S3: that's a massive part of our population here in the 210 00:12:42,429 --> 00:12:46,750 S3: United States. So it can be a very difficult topic 211 00:12:46,750 --> 00:12:49,950 S3: to bring into the light, but it is worth being 212 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,760 S3: brave and courageous and talking out loud about it. 213 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:57,719 S1: How long did it take you to just tell yourself 214 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,240 S1: the truth and then to speak that to other people? 215 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:05,680 S3: Goodness. Well, it's been a process, that's for sure. I'm 216 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:08,480 S3: not like the average. The average age for women is 217 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,200 S3: 52 years old before they begin talking about their story 218 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,719 S3: of abuse. For me, I was much younger. Um, I 219 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,880 S3: was in my early teens when I started to have 220 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,200 S3: some flashbacks and stuff of it, but didn't really gain 221 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:28,240 S3: a voice to really talk about it and begin the 222 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,200 S3: process of healing until I was in my early 20s. 223 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,200 S3: So I'm kind of ahead of the curve, if you will, 224 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,559 S3: as far as what the average is. It typically takes 225 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,600 S3: a long time for people to find their voice again. 226 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,079 S1: And I've heard that from callers to this program. Women, 227 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,980 S1: especially in their 60s, 70s and older, who will say 228 00:13:49,980 --> 00:13:54,540 S1: something about what happened along these lines. And and I'll ask, 229 00:13:54,580 --> 00:13:56,860 S1: you know, who who else have you told that to? 230 00:13:56,900 --> 00:14:00,820 S1: And they'll say, not every time, but many times I've 231 00:14:00,820 --> 00:14:04,580 S1: never told anybody. That's that's not unheard of is it? 232 00:14:05,460 --> 00:14:08,500 S3: No, it's very, very common. I can't tell you how 233 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:12,100 S3: many times I've heard I've never told anyone this. And 234 00:14:12,100 --> 00:14:15,540 S3: sometimes it's just for a fact of people dismiss it. 235 00:14:15,940 --> 00:14:19,700 S3: Like they'll say that wasn't that big of a deal or, um, 236 00:14:19,740 --> 00:14:23,140 S3: they just kind of disconnected from an event in their lives, 237 00:14:23,140 --> 00:14:27,140 S3: or they don't realize that what happened to them was 238 00:14:27,540 --> 00:14:31,900 S3: a violation or was abuse. So sometimes that can play 239 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:34,540 S3: a part in it as well. 240 00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:39,660 S1: Yeah. When you recorded the documentary, you're part of it. 241 00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:43,940 S1: It was there's a lot more. There's probably 99% that 242 00:14:43,940 --> 00:14:47,220 S1: that didn't get in the documentary because you just record 243 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:50,040 S1: and record and have you have all the film that 244 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,440 S1: you need. But when you watch the finished project, what 245 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:55,760 S1: happened in your soul? 246 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:02,600 S3: Mhm. You know, it's funny because you see all the pieces, 247 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,080 S3: but when you see all the pieces come together, I 248 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,000 S3: think the biggest thing is just that. Reinforcing that I'm 249 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,480 S3: not alone as a survivor. We can become kind of 250 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:19,400 S3: isolated and like islands, thinking that we've been the only 251 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,440 S3: ones to traverse that ground. But to hear that you're 252 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,200 S3: not alone and that there's so many varying stories. But 253 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,320 S3: also there's the hope piece too. So I'm grateful for that. 254 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,720 S3: But many of my tears was thinking back to all 255 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,000 S3: of the people how I was. I was thinking of 256 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,960 S3: the people who are still stuck in a place where 257 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:44,200 S3: I once was. So my heart is burdened for those 258 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,880 S3: who have not found their voice and have not found 259 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:52,330 S3: healing and hope. And so that's, that's powerful in this piece. 260 00:15:52,330 --> 00:15:55,690 S1: I think one of the most powerful parts for me 261 00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:59,090 S1: and I, I did the same thing as the, the 262 00:15:59,130 --> 00:16:04,090 S1: person being interviewed did pictured myself as a child and 263 00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:07,090 S1: what was going on in my head, because in this, 264 00:16:07,090 --> 00:16:10,850 S1: her name is Dawn and she is you see pictures 265 00:16:10,850 --> 00:16:15,650 S1: of herself before the abuse happened and then pictures of 266 00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:21,170 S1: her after the abuse. This is Dawn from Innocent Child, 267 00:16:21,170 --> 00:16:22,130 S1: the documentary. 268 00:16:22,690 --> 00:16:26,450 S4: I don't remember so much of my childhood. You asked 269 00:16:26,450 --> 00:16:28,970 S4: me to tell you something about my life. I don't 270 00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:36,810 S4: remember a lot as a child. I do remember having 271 00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:39,810 S4: fun and running through the fields of the pasture of 272 00:16:39,810 --> 00:16:44,610 S4: my grandparents farm. Those were beautiful times. I felt free, 273 00:16:45,450 --> 00:16:51,150 S4: I felt innocent What I do remember is that there 274 00:16:51,150 --> 00:16:53,350 S4: are pictures of me that I can look at, and 275 00:16:53,350 --> 00:16:56,310 S4: I can say, that little girl right there is free 276 00:16:57,790 --> 00:17:15,110 S4: and she's not abused. But that. That girl is. I 277 00:17:15,150 --> 00:17:19,790 S4: don't know, I don't know how it started. What I 278 00:17:19,830 --> 00:17:24,470 S4: can tell you with super clarity and very vivid memories 279 00:17:26,030 --> 00:17:32,270 S4: is that my childhood hero of my dad, a marine, 280 00:17:32,990 --> 00:17:38,510 S4: an executive, a jazz pianist, a beautiful person that I 281 00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:48,000 S4: admired and so desperately wanted his love. Was my hero 282 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,840 S4: by day. But one night became a predator. 283 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,680 S1: That's just a little snippet. A minute and a half 284 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:03,160 S1: of powerful audio. You hear the music, but the pictures. 285 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,360 S1: I can't show you the pictures. You have to see 286 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,560 S1: the the documentary for that. So as you listen to that, Becky, 287 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,760 S1: did you have that same experience of looking at pictures 288 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,240 S1: of yourself as a child? 289 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,480 S3: You know, I was so very young when my abuse began. 290 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,600 S3: How it's different for me is I had blocked out 291 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:31,000 S3: a lot of those memories into my early teenage years. 292 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,200 S3: So I can look at pictures and say, that girl 293 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:41,080 S3: doesn't remember what happened, but this girl does. And so 294 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,200 S3: that was the difference in my story, is that while 295 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,619 S3: I had chronic years in my early childhood, I had 296 00:18:49,619 --> 00:18:52,260 S3: a time period where I thought it was kind of normal, 297 00:18:52,260 --> 00:18:54,939 S3: so I didn't realize there was anything wrong. So the 298 00:18:54,940 --> 00:18:58,420 S3: difference was when I finally realized that, oh my goodness, 299 00:18:58,420 --> 00:19:01,219 S3: this isn't okay. Oh my goodness, this isn't right. And 300 00:19:01,220 --> 00:19:04,620 S3: I had just bits and pieces. So. But many people 301 00:19:04,619 --> 00:19:08,980 S3: have a, a defining moment, if you will, where they 302 00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:11,620 S3: realize what had happened to them was not right and 303 00:19:11,619 --> 00:19:13,660 S3: it wasn't okay and it wasn't normal. 304 00:19:14,180 --> 00:19:18,340 S1: Steve so powerful to see those, those pictures of Dawn, 305 00:19:18,380 --> 00:19:21,060 S1: you know, as a younger girl, wasn't it? 306 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:24,300 S2: Yes, yes. I have to tell you, as we were 307 00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:28,100 S2: just listening, as you might imagine, in the editing process, 308 00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,379 S2: I have seen and heard these clips over and over 309 00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:33,939 S2: and over trying to decide what should be in the 310 00:19:33,940 --> 00:19:38,820 S2: final film, and I'm waiting for when it doesn't tear 311 00:19:38,859 --> 00:19:43,980 S2: me up. Yes, it's it's just the power of the 312 00:19:43,980 --> 00:19:50,350 S2: power of somebody sharing their truth is just undeniable. And 313 00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:53,909 S2: I'm grateful that we're able to to bring these stories forward. 314 00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:57,350 S1: I want and, and Becky's story is in here, and 315 00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:59,950 S1: I want to talk with Becky, with you more about that. 316 00:19:59,950 --> 00:20:02,830 S1: But let me go back to the the other Dawn 317 00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:05,990 S1: clip that we have. Ryan, the first step to healing. 318 00:20:05,990 --> 00:20:10,909 S1: This is her Dawn talking more about her own experience. 319 00:20:11,470 --> 00:20:14,790 S4: The pain was so great that I couldn't deny anymore. 320 00:20:14,790 --> 00:20:17,950 S4: I needed some help. I wanted to take a pill. 321 00:20:17,950 --> 00:20:19,709 S4: I just wanted to swallow a pill and make it 322 00:20:19,710 --> 00:20:23,510 S4: go away. And I did do that. But the pill 323 00:20:23,510 --> 00:20:26,350 S4: didn't make it go away. And so I went back 324 00:20:26,350 --> 00:20:29,190 S4: to the doctor and I said, what else can this 325 00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:31,950 S4: is what's wrong. It's my body. And he said, no, 326 00:20:31,950 --> 00:20:34,630 S4: it's your trauma. I said, no, I have forgiven. It's 327 00:20:34,630 --> 00:20:38,350 S4: not my trauma. He said, forgiveness doesn't make it go away. 328 00:20:39,670 --> 00:20:45,610 S4: It makes you positioned for healing, but you need to talk. 329 00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:50,290 S4: So that was the first step in the journey of 330 00:20:50,290 --> 00:20:55,210 S4: finding healing is that finally my body just said, you 331 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:57,770 S4: got to do it. Dawn, I was so afraid at 332 00:20:57,770 --> 00:21:02,450 S4: first because I thought that if I relived it, that 333 00:21:02,450 --> 00:21:05,090 S4: my whole life would unravel. I really thought that I 334 00:21:05,090 --> 00:21:09,250 S4: would become mentally ill, that I would lose complete control, 335 00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:13,330 S4: and that the pain was so massive that I would. 336 00:21:13,369 --> 00:21:18,530 S4: I would end up just in a mental breakdown. The 337 00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:23,010 S4: truth is that by keeping it all inside, I was 338 00:21:23,010 --> 00:21:28,010 S4: headed for the mental injury and pain. 339 00:21:29,850 --> 00:21:32,929 S1: The enemy loves. And that's what I wanted you to 340 00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:35,530 S1: hear today as you listen to this. We're talking about 341 00:21:35,930 --> 00:21:40,450 S1: the sensitive topic of childhood sexual abuse, but the. You 342 00:21:40,490 --> 00:21:44,070 S1: think keeping it in is going to help? but it's 343 00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:47,390 S1: the opposite. The chains that are formed in there and 344 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:50,990 S1: forged in there keep you, keep you from real life. 345 00:21:51,109 --> 00:21:53,550 S1: And you've experienced that, Becky, and that's why you've done 346 00:21:53,550 --> 00:21:57,030 S1: the the devotional, I think, is to give those who 347 00:21:57,030 --> 00:22:00,270 S1: read it, especially women, but women and men, if they 348 00:22:00,270 --> 00:22:04,070 S1: go through it, give them a little bit of of 349 00:22:04,350 --> 00:22:06,310 S1: an open door. Is that true? 350 00:22:07,550 --> 00:22:11,750 S3: Absolutely. You know, we have several sections in the devotional 351 00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:16,790 S3: and we start out by naming it and getting, um, 352 00:22:16,990 --> 00:22:21,350 S3: giving out the invitation to begin to put words to 353 00:22:21,390 --> 00:22:25,470 S3: what happened to you. And we move through things like 354 00:22:25,670 --> 00:22:28,469 S3: your concept of God because, you know, I mean, we 355 00:22:28,470 --> 00:22:31,350 S3: all go through things in life, right? What's important is 356 00:22:31,550 --> 00:22:33,910 S3: not as much. The detail is what do we walk 357 00:22:33,910 --> 00:22:40,230 S3: away believing about ourselves, about God and about life? What 358 00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:44,480 S3: do we walk away? What things did we learn from that? 359 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,920 S3: What lies did we learn from that? How did we 360 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:53,480 S3: learn to cope because of the trauma that occurred? So 361 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:57,040 S3: it's kind of an invitation to begin that healing process. 362 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,640 S3: You know, and I know like Don said, and I remember, 363 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,800 S3: and I think I might reference this in the in 364 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,400 S3: the book, I've done a lot of writing, a lot 365 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,840 S3: of writing lately. But, you know, she said she was 366 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,320 S3: afraid that life would unravel. And I remember literally looking 367 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,200 S3: at a counselor saying, I'm afraid that once I start crying, 368 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:18,480 S3: I won't be able to stop. And, um, it's a 369 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,479 S3: legitimate fear, I think, that we all have when we 370 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,479 S3: start facing the darkness. But the courage that it takes 371 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,520 S3: to go there and the bravery that you do have 372 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,719 S3: because of the power of God in you, it is 373 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:38,119 S3: worth stepping into the unknown of this. It is worth 374 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,060 S3: chasing down your healing because you are not alone and 375 00:23:43,060 --> 00:23:45,820 S3: you can be free. And you might be like, well, 376 00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:47,940 S3: this doesn't really bother me that much, so I don't 377 00:23:47,940 --> 00:23:51,620 S3: really need to talk about it. My friend, I'm so sorry. 378 00:23:52,020 --> 00:23:57,020 S3: But unhealed trauma, it bleeds out in your relationships. It 379 00:23:57,020 --> 00:24:00,139 S3: bleeds out into the people around you. And it does 380 00:24:00,140 --> 00:24:02,860 S3: affect your life, whether you want to admit it or not, 381 00:24:03,020 --> 00:24:05,420 S3: which was the reality I had to come to in 382 00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:06,300 S3: my own life. 383 00:24:06,660 --> 00:24:09,540 S1: You were telling me before the program that as a 384 00:24:09,580 --> 00:24:13,020 S1: worship leader, there were times when that nerve would be 385 00:24:13,020 --> 00:24:16,380 S1: touched on the inside and you'd feel the emotion. And 386 00:24:16,380 --> 00:24:18,859 S1: you were you were worried about it. You wanted to 387 00:24:18,859 --> 00:24:21,740 S1: push it down because you didn't want to be overcome 388 00:24:21,780 --> 00:24:23,260 S1: as you were leading. Right? 389 00:24:24,020 --> 00:24:27,220 S3: Mhm. Well, I think, you know, that was I was 390 00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:32,300 S3: still in a performance based thinking because that's what I 391 00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:35,100 S3: was taught. My abuse happened within the church. My dad 392 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,220 S3: was the pastor. You know, we had to that was 393 00:24:38,220 --> 00:24:40,990 S3: don't talk about it because these people were from the church. 394 00:24:41,030 --> 00:24:44,389 S3: We're going to avoid, you know, talking about these things. 395 00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:49,630 S3: And we have to have the perfect picture of how 396 00:24:49,670 --> 00:24:52,630 S3: life is when you have the Lord, right? So I 397 00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:56,149 S3: was I was raised in that thought in the fishbowl, 398 00:24:56,190 --> 00:24:59,270 S3: so to speak. And so as I grew up and 399 00:24:59,270 --> 00:25:02,230 S3: I was worship leading, the last thing that I felt 400 00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:05,510 S3: comfortable in doing was being honest, that I was broken. 401 00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:09,030 S3: And I had big questions for God, questions that I 402 00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:13,430 S3: was afraid to begin to ask. And so yeah, I 403 00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:17,270 S3: was really afraid to be honest about where I was 404 00:25:17,270 --> 00:25:19,510 S3: at and where I was struggling because I had to 405 00:25:19,550 --> 00:25:22,790 S3: keep up the facade or, my goodness, what would happen, 406 00:25:22,910 --> 00:25:25,310 S3: you know, to the reputation of God if I actually 407 00:25:25,310 --> 00:25:26,670 S3: questioned where he was. 408 00:25:26,950 --> 00:25:29,109 S1: The church is going to split to. If you are 409 00:25:29,109 --> 00:25:32,190 S1: honest about this, you might be the reason why this 410 00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:35,590 S1: church splits and think about that weight on your shoulders. 411 00:25:35,590 --> 00:25:37,270 S1: I want to come back and talk more about that. 412 00:25:37,270 --> 00:25:41,930 S1: Steve Cyler Becky Nordquist with us. The documentary, we have 413 00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:47,850 S1: it linked@kris.org. Innocent child and the companion devotional is there 414 00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:52,050 S1: as well. Just go to Chris Fabry dot ORG. More 415 00:25:52,050 --> 00:25:59,970 S1: straight ahead on Moody Radio. Before we get back to 416 00:26:00,010 --> 00:26:03,810 S1: the program, a quick note for you. This segment includes 417 00:26:03,850 --> 00:26:09,330 S1: a song that we can't play for copyright restrictions. Sorry 418 00:26:09,330 --> 00:26:19,490 S1: about that and thank you for understanding. Steve Tyler is 419 00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:22,730 S1: back with us from music for the soul. The documentary 420 00:26:22,730 --> 00:26:25,770 S1: Innocent Child is out. It's online. You can find it 421 00:26:25,770 --> 00:26:28,810 S1: at Chris Fabry live.org. We have a link right there. 422 00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:31,770 S1: It's a you can you can purchase it, but there's 423 00:26:31,770 --> 00:26:36,209 S1: also a way to see it absolutely free. And we 424 00:26:36,210 --> 00:26:38,330 S1: can talk more about that. But I wanted you to 425 00:26:38,369 --> 00:26:41,700 S1: to hear that from us today. We got a link there. 426 00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:47,060 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Becky Nordquist put together the devote the devotional, 427 00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:51,700 S1: and she is also seen, uh, throughout the documentary and 428 00:26:51,740 --> 00:26:55,699 S1: is so good and so real. There's another woman in 429 00:26:55,700 --> 00:27:00,100 S1: the documentary and you mentioned Becky, the whole church thing. 430 00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:04,060 S1: And God, there's a woman named Shelly. And I've excerpted 431 00:27:04,060 --> 00:27:07,580 S1: just another minute and a half of what Shelly had 432 00:27:07,580 --> 00:27:12,740 S1: to say. And at this point, she's describing what happened 433 00:27:12,740 --> 00:27:16,460 S1: when her perpetrator told her it was their secret. 434 00:27:16,940 --> 00:27:24,060 S5: He said. Don't tell anybody. And it shut me down 435 00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:28,900 S5: and I didn't tell. And I stayed in that foster 436 00:27:28,940 --> 00:27:33,459 S5: foster home. Um, and things continued to happen. The molestation 437 00:27:33,460 --> 00:27:36,420 S5: continued to happen. And I was in that foster home 438 00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:41,440 S5: for nine months and it changed my entire life. When 439 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,399 S5: I tell you it changed my entire life here. You 440 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:50,520 S5: know I am the child that's athletic. That's, um, assertive. That's, 441 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,879 S5: you know, full of wonder and excitement and risk taking. 442 00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:02,720 S5: It shut me down. Now I become this very overprotective, guarded, um. 443 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:10,360 S5: Shell of a person. Shell of a little girl. It 444 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:19,440 S5: it the the shell robbed me of my ability to 445 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,040 S5: connect with other people to, to trust. I just didn't 446 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,560 S5: understand how a God that is supposed to be loving 447 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,280 S5: and merciful and gracious and kind and compassionate. How I 448 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,720 S5: didn't have that language back then. Of course I'm nine 449 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,450 S5: years old, but I did have the thought. I did 450 00:28:38,450 --> 00:28:42,730 S5: have the thought. How could this big God have allowed 451 00:28:42,730 --> 00:28:46,090 S5: something like this to happen? So I questioned God. 452 00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:50,490 S1: Why did this happen? If he's good and loving and kind. 453 00:28:50,810 --> 00:28:55,090 S1: And then for you, Becky, in the church, if your father, 454 00:28:55,130 --> 00:28:58,850 S1: the pastor, if your dad loves you, he would protect 455 00:28:58,850 --> 00:29:01,730 S1: you from what was going on with the people who 456 00:29:01,890 --> 00:29:07,010 S1: were meting out that abuse. And it sounded, as you 457 00:29:07,050 --> 00:29:09,770 S1: kind of worked through it in the documentary. It's like 458 00:29:10,170 --> 00:29:13,970 S1: I had to work through my my dad failing me. 459 00:29:13,970 --> 00:29:16,210 S1: And if my dad fails me, I put that on 460 00:29:16,210 --> 00:29:19,530 S1: my Heavenly Father. He failed me too. So how did 461 00:29:19,530 --> 00:29:22,130 S1: you work through all the church angle? 462 00:29:23,130 --> 00:29:28,410 S3: Oh, goodness. Well, it took a long time, that's for sure. Um, yeah. 463 00:29:28,410 --> 00:29:31,209 S3: When you're told, hey, you know, if you talk about this, 464 00:29:31,210 --> 00:29:33,370 S3: the church is going to split and it's going to 465 00:29:33,370 --> 00:29:37,430 S3: be on you. And, you know, part of what helped 466 00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:43,030 S3: me was I went to a school counselor, actually beginning. 467 00:29:43,030 --> 00:29:47,350 S3: And then they forced my parents to allow me to 468 00:29:47,390 --> 00:29:52,070 S3: seek professional help. I was suicidal as a teenager, and 469 00:29:52,110 --> 00:29:55,470 S3: I will never forget the day that I went into 470 00:29:55,510 --> 00:30:01,310 S3: my old kindergarten classroom because my counselor said, look, you, um, 471 00:30:03,150 --> 00:30:08,830 S3: you're blaming yourself and I can't possibly get through to 472 00:30:08,870 --> 00:30:11,550 S3: you that you're innocent. I want you to go to 473 00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:13,470 S3: your kindergarten room, and I want you to sit in 474 00:30:13,470 --> 00:30:15,830 S3: the little chairs and look at the little things and see. 475 00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:19,590 S3: Do you really think you could blame someone that small 476 00:30:19,590 --> 00:30:23,830 S3: for all the horrible things that happened to you? And 477 00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:28,070 S3: so I did. And, you know, I sitting in these 478 00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:32,230 S3: little tiny chairs and you realize how tiny a person 479 00:30:32,230 --> 00:30:35,890 S3: who's like 4 or 5 is. And in that process, 480 00:30:35,890 --> 00:30:38,650 S3: as I'm sitting there, you know, meanwhile, Steve Siler is 481 00:30:38,650 --> 00:30:41,530 S3: writing this incredible song on the other side of the 482 00:30:41,530 --> 00:30:46,650 S3: country called Innocent Child. Um, as a teenager, I was like, 483 00:30:46,690 --> 00:30:48,810 S3: I don't know. I don't know where God is anymore. 484 00:30:48,850 --> 00:30:51,010 S3: I don't know who he is, I don't know. I 485 00:30:51,010 --> 00:30:53,930 S3: used to think that he loved me and protected me. And, 486 00:30:54,290 --> 00:30:59,250 S3: you know, I was a seething anger was growing within 487 00:30:59,250 --> 00:31:03,330 S3: me toward God because I came to believe that he 488 00:31:03,330 --> 00:31:05,890 S3: was not a protector like I'd been lied to, and 489 00:31:05,890 --> 00:31:07,610 S3: that I had fallen in love with a God that 490 00:31:07,610 --> 00:31:12,250 S3: really didn't exist. And it took a long time to 491 00:31:12,290 --> 00:31:17,530 S3: realize that the God who formed me was nothing like 492 00:31:17,530 --> 00:31:22,930 S3: the people who harmed me. And it is a process. 493 00:31:22,930 --> 00:31:27,650 S3: It's a process of learning to that, you know, in fact, 494 00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:30,250 S3: if it's okay, I'll just share with from the book, 495 00:31:30,290 --> 00:31:33,250 S3: it says, you know, there's the question that hurts the most. 496 00:31:33,250 --> 00:31:36,860 S3: Why didn't God stop it. And there is no answer 497 00:31:36,860 --> 00:31:40,100 S3: that makes that pain disappear. Truly, if you have the answer, 498 00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:42,219 S3: you're never. It's not going to take the pain away. 499 00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:47,820 S3: But here's the truth. God created a world in which 500 00:31:47,860 --> 00:31:53,260 S3: love is real. And real love requires freedom. And that 501 00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:58,060 S3: same freedom can be twisted into devastating harm by broken 502 00:31:58,060 --> 00:32:03,660 S3: human choices. Many are influenced by an evil not of 503 00:32:03,660 --> 00:32:07,700 S3: this world. And this is the important part that happened 504 00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:11,540 S3: in my own healing was basically it was a healing 505 00:32:11,580 --> 00:32:16,660 S3: of God's reputation because I believed so many lies. God 506 00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:21,940 S3: does not and cannot will that harm. He can do 507 00:32:21,940 --> 00:32:25,700 S3: nothing that is contrary to his perfect nature. He does 508 00:32:25,700 --> 00:32:28,540 S3: not partner with it. He doesn't look away from it. 509 00:32:28,580 --> 00:32:31,700 S3: He doesn't participate in it because I accused him of 510 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:34,920 S3: all of those things. Chris. All of those things. I 511 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,920 S3: shook my fist at the sky and I said, I 512 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,040 S3: don't get it. If you're so loving, then why. And 513 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,080 S3: I demanded that he answer me. But the truth is, 514 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:49,400 S3: is that even when he doesn't override human choices, he 515 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:54,240 S3: doesn't abandon the innocent inside the storm. He promises that 516 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,360 S3: he's with us through the deep waters. He. He promises 517 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,280 S3: in the Psalms that he's with us in the raging rivers. 518 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,080 S3: And when you walk through the fire, you're not going 519 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:09,680 S3: to be burned, he says. He holds precious, the most 520 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,800 S3: sacred places of your soul, because restoration is possible. And 521 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,040 S3: he's a God that understands pain and abuse and hurt 522 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:21,719 S3: and all of those things. 523 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,920 S1: So 35 years ago, when Becky was a little girl, 524 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,530 S1: Steve Siler was putting these words together. And now, all 525 00:33:33,570 --> 00:33:37,730 S1: these years later, they're coming back together. This is Becky 526 00:33:37,730 --> 00:33:44,010 S1: Nordquist singing that song that Steve sang 35 years ago 527 00:33:44,010 --> 00:33:48,090 S1: in front of all those people. This is innocent child. 528 00:33:55,170 --> 00:33:59,530 S6: We have a link for music for the soul@chris.org. 529 00:33:59,530 --> 00:34:02,370 S1: Click through today's information. You'll see the link as well 530 00:34:02,370 --> 00:34:05,770 S1: for the documentary that we've been talking about, Innocent Child 531 00:34:06,050 --> 00:34:11,050 S1: and the devotional by Becky Nordquist. And there are something like, 532 00:34:11,090 --> 00:34:15,610 S1: I think 18 songs total. We just played one innocent 533 00:34:15,610 --> 00:34:21,170 S1: child there, but there's something like 18 songs that might 534 00:34:21,170 --> 00:34:24,089 S1: strike a nerve for somebody who's going through this at 535 00:34:24,090 --> 00:34:25,330 S1: the website. Right, Steve? 536 00:34:26,170 --> 00:34:30,010 S2: Yes. Innocent child.net. Got it. That's right. 537 00:34:30,250 --> 00:34:33,510 S1: Respond to Becky's version of your song because she sounds 538 00:34:33,510 --> 00:34:34,510 S1: different than you do. 539 00:34:35,830 --> 00:34:40,069 S2: Well, you know, I was sitting here thinking I had 540 00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:42,670 S2: chills as I was listening to her sing for so 541 00:34:42,670 --> 00:34:46,150 S2: many reasons, because I know her story. And I thought, wow, 542 00:34:46,430 --> 00:34:49,550 S2: you know, I'm sure she never could have imagined she'd 543 00:34:49,550 --> 00:34:51,670 S2: she'd get to sing this song and have it heard 544 00:34:51,670 --> 00:34:55,469 S2: on a program like yours. And what a joy that is. 545 00:34:56,150 --> 00:34:59,430 S2: And of course, as a writer, to have somebody else 546 00:34:59,430 --> 00:35:03,029 S2: take your words and, and your song and own them 547 00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:05,910 S2: the way she does and be able to share out 548 00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:10,149 S2: of a place of lived experience. Chris. It's almost well, 549 00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:12,870 S2: it's not almost overwhelming. It is overwhelming. Yeah. 550 00:35:13,710 --> 00:35:16,950 S1: And Becky, one of the things that you get into and, 551 00:35:16,989 --> 00:35:20,950 S1: you know, in long form documentary, we, you can, you 552 00:35:20,989 --> 00:35:23,710 S1: can deal with it. It's very difficult. In 5 or 553 00:35:23,710 --> 00:35:27,270 S1: 6 minutes, we have left to bring up the forgiveness 554 00:35:27,270 --> 00:35:29,709 S1: topic and to do any kind of justice to it. 555 00:35:29,710 --> 00:35:36,359 S1: But you were confronted with these perpetrators, and I won't 556 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,239 S1: give that away. Watch the documentary. But you had to 557 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,920 S1: do this work in and of in your own heart 558 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,839 S1: about what is forgiveness? What does it really look like? 559 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,320 S1: Because it feels like you're letting people off the hook 560 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:54,320 S1: and forgiveness for you was more for setting yourself free 561 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,440 S1: than the other person. Is that right? 562 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:02,560 S3: Exactly. It is truly. I tell a couple stories in 563 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,879 S3: the section on forgiveness and being set free. That kind 564 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:11,320 S3: of kind of like analogies, talking about what it does 565 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,239 S3: when you don't, you know, bitterness, you know, when we 566 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:18,919 S3: don't forgive. It's, you know, the Bible uses it talks 567 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,319 S3: about it like a root and roots. They grow underground 568 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,040 S3: and they're quiet. And honestly, if you didn't know they 569 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,000 S3: were there, you wouldn't know they were there. And it's 570 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,540 S3: the same thing with unforgiveness, but it can like just 571 00:36:32,540 --> 00:36:37,180 S3: spread and, and infiltrate every area of your life. And 572 00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:41,899 S3: there's no reason that you should continually being made to 573 00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:46,580 S3: pay for what someone else did. It is their shame. 574 00:36:46,580 --> 00:36:50,779 S3: It was their problem. It wasn't yours. And so when 575 00:36:50,780 --> 00:36:54,339 S3: we work towards forgiveness and I say work, it's not 576 00:36:54,340 --> 00:36:58,020 S3: just it's not like, oh, I forgive that person. It's 577 00:36:58,020 --> 00:37:01,260 S3: a bigger work than that. It starts with, like we said, 578 00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:04,700 S3: the naming. Name what you lost, what did you lose 579 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:08,540 S3: because of what they did? What did you what was 580 00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:12,020 S3: taken from you because of what they did. And as 581 00:37:12,020 --> 00:37:15,300 S3: you begin to name what you lost in the situation, 582 00:37:15,580 --> 00:37:20,660 S3: you can then begin the work of restoration of forgiveness and, 583 00:37:20,660 --> 00:37:24,180 S3: and that process. But, you know, it is that common 584 00:37:24,180 --> 00:37:26,020 S3: thing of, oh, if I forgive them, then they're going 585 00:37:26,020 --> 00:37:28,660 S3: to get away with it. But here's the thing. They're 586 00:37:28,660 --> 00:37:31,520 S3: out having lunch there. Out eating pizza there. Going to 587 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,720 S3: the mall there, watching a movie while you are carrying 588 00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:38,160 S3: this heavy weight that you are never meant to carry. 589 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,280 S3: And so when you forgive, you're releasing them. You're releasing 590 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,359 S3: them into the hands of an Almighty God. And he 591 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,040 S3: is not okay with with what they did. And he 592 00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:52,120 S3: promises that he will take care of that too. But 593 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,680 S3: it sets you free and it sets you free to live. 594 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:57,880 S3: And it sets you free to walk forward in life 595 00:37:58,360 --> 00:37:59,600 S3: and leave it in the rearview. 596 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,200 S1: You know, one of the things that I love, Steve, 597 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,279 S1: about the documentary is the sensitivity with which you handle this, 598 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,000 S1: because you could have, you know, the music, the dramatic 599 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,080 S1: music and the clips and the things and the, you know, 600 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:18,960 S1: you go all Hollywood on it. But what you did 601 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:25,600 S1: was you, you got us very gently into the topic 602 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,450 S1: with a metaphor of, of this, this plant, this forest, 603 00:38:31,489 --> 00:38:33,530 S1: these trees. Talk about that. 604 00:38:34,410 --> 00:38:39,609 S2: Yes. Uh, Corey Niemczyk, the producer and director, uh, he 605 00:38:39,610 --> 00:38:42,730 S2: and I were talking about how, how hard this topic 606 00:38:42,730 --> 00:38:44,609 S2: was and how are we going to get into this 607 00:38:44,610 --> 00:38:49,850 S2: topic gently. And he, his wife actually has a garden 608 00:38:49,850 --> 00:38:52,529 S2: beside their house. And they were out in the garden 609 00:38:53,130 --> 00:38:57,010 S2: and she had some young trees. And he went to 610 00:38:57,050 --> 00:38:59,609 S2: pluck this flower on the tree. And she's like, you're 611 00:38:59,610 --> 00:39:05,009 S2: going to ruin it. And he thought about that later. And, 612 00:39:05,010 --> 00:39:09,850 S2: and God gifted him this amazing metaphor that then we, 613 00:39:09,890 --> 00:39:14,090 S2: we put into animation as a way to open this story. Uh, 614 00:39:14,090 --> 00:39:15,690 S2: and I don't want to give, like you said, you 615 00:39:15,690 --> 00:39:17,410 S2: didn't want to give away what Becky was going to 616 00:39:17,410 --> 00:39:20,610 S2: say in the film. I just invite people to watch this, 617 00:39:20,610 --> 00:39:26,730 S2: this opening segment, uh, and experience this, this beautiful metaphor. Uh, 618 00:39:26,810 --> 00:39:30,670 S2: because I think it, uh, the idea of a young 619 00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:34,270 S2: tree and how it needs to be nurtured and watered 620 00:39:34,270 --> 00:39:39,230 S2: and taken care of, uh, with good soil and loving hands. 621 00:39:39,230 --> 00:39:41,630 S2: And and what happens if that's not the case? 622 00:39:42,390 --> 00:39:46,270 S1: So your heart, as I look at the, the website, you, 623 00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:49,190 S1: you can, you can rent this, you can buy it 624 00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:52,069 S1: outright and have it or you could there's a way 625 00:39:52,070 --> 00:39:55,470 S1: to watch it free. Why did you do those choices? 626 00:39:56,350 --> 00:39:59,629 S2: I never want anybody to be separated from what they 627 00:39:59,630 --> 00:40:03,390 S2: need because of money with with music for the soul. Uh, 628 00:40:03,390 --> 00:40:06,790 S2: so my feeling was if if you need to see this, 629 00:40:06,790 --> 00:40:08,469 S2: then I want you to see it. And if you 630 00:40:08,469 --> 00:40:11,710 S2: can't afford it, I want you to see it. So 631 00:40:11,830 --> 00:40:15,470 S2: we allow people to claim a free seven day rental 632 00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:18,029 S2: because we know when you rent it, if this is 633 00:40:18,030 --> 00:40:19,790 S2: your story, you may not be able to watch the 634 00:40:19,790 --> 00:40:21,589 S2: whole thing at once. In fact, a friend of mine 635 00:40:21,590 --> 00:40:24,390 S2: who's not a survivor said it took him three tries 636 00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:26,830 S2: to get through it. I want people to have the 637 00:40:26,830 --> 00:40:30,319 S2: time they need to watch it. And I encourage survivors, 638 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,200 S2: especially watch it with a counselor or with a trusted friend, 639 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,000 S2: someone that can support you in the process. Uh, but yeah, that's, 640 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,279 S2: that's why we make it available for people to be 641 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,200 S2: able to see it free if necessary. And if they 642 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,480 S2: want to want to buy it. Obviously, any, any purchase 643 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,359 S2: supports our being able to continue to share it and 644 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,279 S2: do more things like this in the future. 645 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,400 S1: We have the link right there. Chris. fabriclive.org. Last word 646 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,239 S1: for you, Becky. What I'm hearing coming through you and 647 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,839 S1: Steve today through the documentary, through the devotional, there is hope. 648 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:05,240 S1: You don't have to stay stuck. Is that true? 649 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,920 S3: 100%. I mean, shoot, if I can be set free, 650 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,279 S3: anybody can be. But, you know, I just want to 651 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,560 S3: say this, you know, again about forgiveness. It's not it 652 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:22,080 S3: doesn't excuse the abuse. It's not forgetting. It's not reconciliation even. 653 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,100 S3: It's not putting yourself back in harm's way. It's something 654 00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:29,980 S3: that's far more personal and far, far more freeing. And 655 00:41:29,980 --> 00:41:35,580 S3: God is the ultimate forgiver. So you have a guide 656 00:41:35,580 --> 00:41:39,660 S3: leading you through the process. And he's patient and he's 657 00:41:39,660 --> 00:41:43,339 S3: kind and loving, and he knows right where you are. 658 00:41:43,340 --> 00:41:45,660 S3: And he loves you right where you are, but he 659 00:41:45,660 --> 00:41:48,140 S3: loves you too much to let you stay there. 660 00:41:48,620 --> 00:41:52,940 S1: MM. And if you have been hearing that voice that 661 00:41:52,940 --> 00:41:56,140 S1: I think it was Shelly who said, shh, don't tell anybody. 662 00:41:56,140 --> 00:41:59,500 S1: This is our secret. Just keep this secret. Don't. Don't 663 00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:02,259 S1: you dare, you know, look at the ramifications. This is 664 00:42:02,260 --> 00:42:04,299 S1: going to this is going to blow up on you. 665 00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:06,540 S1: It's going to change your. Just keep it a secret. 666 00:42:06,540 --> 00:42:10,500 S1: That's not the voice of your father. And that comes 667 00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:14,660 S1: through so clearly in the documentary. And then the songs 668 00:42:14,980 --> 00:42:17,700 S1: that Steve mentioned a little earlier, we just played one 669 00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:22,300 S1: of them during this Our innocent child, the documentary, the devotional, 670 00:42:22,580 --> 00:42:26,950 S1: the music. We've got a link right there. Chris Fabry live.org. 671 00:42:27,469 --> 00:42:32,630 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Steve Siler, thank you for running into 672 00:42:32,910 --> 00:42:36,549 S1: the burning building. The running toward the herding. Keep doing 673 00:42:36,550 --> 00:42:37,990 S1: what you're doing, friend. Okay. 674 00:42:39,030 --> 00:42:39,910 S2: Thank you. Chris. 675 00:42:40,469 --> 00:42:43,350 S1: Becky. Thank you as well for doing the same. Come 676 00:42:43,350 --> 00:42:44,590 S1: back and see us real soon. 677 00:42:45,550 --> 00:42:46,910 S3: Bless you. Thanks, Chris. 678 00:42:47,670 --> 00:42:51,589 S1: Again, if you'd like a link to that documentary or 679 00:42:51,590 --> 00:42:56,270 S1: to the devotional or the music, just go to Chris fabry.org, 680 00:42:58,070 --> 00:43:02,830 S1: Chris fabry.org and be praying for the person who is 681 00:43:02,830 --> 00:43:07,870 S1: listening today, asking God for the courage just to watch, 682 00:43:08,070 --> 00:43:11,629 S1: because there's hope in that person's heart. Maybe you know them. 683 00:43:11,630 --> 00:43:14,950 S1: Maybe you can encourage them. Today, Chris Fabry lives production 684 00:43:14,950 --> 00:43:18,790 S1: of Moody Radio, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks 685 00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:19,710 S1: a lot for listening.