S1: With so many excavations over so many years in the
S1: Holy Land, you'd think that most or all of the
S1: significant discoveries have pretty much been uncovered, right? Not so.
S1: In fact, if I can mix metaphors for a moment,
S1: some would say all the digging up until now is
S1: just the tip of the iceberg. Well, today we're going
S1: to talk with a biblical archaeologist. What's it really like
S1: to dig in ancient lands? Find out as you join
S1: us now for the land and the book. Our host
S1: and guide is Doctor Charlie Dyer, who's hiking boots are
S1: always on, who's been to a number of excavations himself.
S1: He's traveled to Israel more than 100 times. I'm John
S1: Gager and you know Charlie Israel, of course. So much
S1: in the news this past year, the Bible jam packed
S1: with end times prophecies about epic world events, the regathering
S1: of the Jewish people to their ancient homeland, and of course,
S1: Jesus coming return. It is crucial for us as believers, though,
S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy so we
S1: can have a view of the future that's shaped by Scripture,
S1: not just today's headlines. Right?
S2: You're absolutely right, John. And with this in mind, our
S2: friends at Life and Messiah have published a book titled God,
S2: Israel and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it to listeners
S2: of the land in the book for a limited time.
S2: This informative book is focused on providing readers with a
S2: deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what God has in
S2: store for Israel and the nations by digging into what
S2: the scriptures say about these issues. Now, if you're interested
S2: in learning more about what God has in store, visit
S2: Life in Messiah. Org and click on the Moody Radio
S2: button to find out how you can receive your copy
S2: of God, Israel and Bible Prophecy. That's life in messiah.org.
S1: And now a look at current events from the Middle East.
S1: It's more than three weeks since Ismail Ismael Haniya's assassination.
S1: And yet Iran's threatened response hasn't yet materialized. Nor has
S1: Hezbollah's promised attack. Charlie, have the two countries been dissuaded
S1: from responding, or are they just sort of biding their time?
S2: Well, yeah, they're just biding their time. We need to
S2: remember two concepts when trying to understand what motivates the
S2: leadership of Iran and Hezbollah are those two concepts are
S2: shame and honor. They felt shamed when Israel attacked and
S2: killed leaders under their protection. They now feel compelled to
S2: regain their honor by attacking Israel. Now, at the same time,
S2: the leadership in both countries are concerned about Israel's ability
S2: to launch devastating attacks against them, which could potentially cause
S2: them more shame and even threaten their holds on power. Now,
S2: add to that the military buildup from the United States.
S2: They aren't sure if we're as willing to assist Israel
S2: in launching retaliatory strikes, but they've brought in sufficient firepower
S2: that if we choose to do so, we could cause
S2: major damage. And that's probably the key reason they've held
S2: off responding so long. Now, they publicly tied the delay
S2: to the ceasefire negotiations between Israel and Hamas, a successful
S2: conclusion to those talks, which right now doesn't look that hopeful,
S2: could be used as an excuse to keep from launching
S2: an attack that would help restore their honor, at least partially.
S2: But that doesn't mean they won't attack Israel. They will
S2: continue looking for ways to attack, directly or indirectly. They
S2: know the US won't keep its forces in the region
S2: long term, so they might simply wait for us to
S2: withdraw before launching that direct attack. In the meantime, they're
S2: looking for other ways to hit back at Israel, including
S2: supporting Hamas's attempts to send suicide bombers into Israeli towns
S2: like the one who accidentally blew himself up this past week.
S2: Police in Argentina recently thwarted a planned terrorist attack on
S2: the Jewish community there back in 1994, Iran and Hezbollah
S2: bombed a Jewish community center in Argentina, killing 85. So
S2: they've done this before. And Hezbollah published a video showing
S2: a vast underground network of tunnels from which it can
S2: launch missiles against Israel. Now, all this to say, Israel
S2: remains on alert. They were surprised by Hamas on October 7th.
S2: They won't be surprised by Iran or by Hezbollah this time.
S1: Story number two the U.S., Egypt and Qatar continue working
S1: on ways to implement a ceasefire and hostage deal between
S1: Israel and Hamas, in spite of their optimism. Can the
S1: two sides really come to any final agreement?
S2: You know, John, for the sake of the hostages still alive,
S2: I hope a deal can be reached. Even this week,
S2: we saw information on a hostage that we had heard
S2: about while we were in Israel before, whose body has
S2: now been recovered. And that's sad. Israel accepted the bridging
S2: proposals that the U.S. has made, and unfortunately, Hamas has
S2: rejected them, which isn't a hopeful sign. Now, even if
S2: a deal were to be reached and that's a big if,
S2: there's no guarantee it will result in peace or in
S2: the return of all the hostages. Hamas didn't follow through
S2: completely on the last hostage deal, and the bridging proposal
S2: requires multiple stages to bring about a permanent cease fire,
S2: to get all the hostages home and to begin the
S2: process of rebuilding Gaza. And most of the pressure to
S2: compromise keeps being placed on Israel, not Hamas. I think
S2: we always need to remember that Hamas started this conflict,
S2: not Israel, and they're the ones opposing the attempts to
S2: end it. In this most recent round of negotiations, it
S2: seems the US has been overly optimistic, while Israel has
S2: been far more realistic. And unfortunately, Hamas keeps saying that
S2: any apparent progress is just an illusion and they're looking
S2: for any excuse to say no. Now I go back
S2: to the question asked by God in Amos three three.
S2: Can two walk together except they be agreed? You know,
S2: there's not much Israel and Hamas can agree on going forward.
S2: From its very founding, Hamas has been committed to the
S2: total destruction of Israel. That hasn't changed. Even if a
S2: ceasefire and hostage deal comes about. There's another issue that
S2: still has to be addressed. Who will run Gaza the
S2: day after hostilities cease? Hamas wants to remain in power,
S2: while Israel says they can't. And my point here is
S2: that even if Israel and Hamas could reach a deal,
S2: that's just the first step in a long process that
S2: still lies ahead. And that's a realistic assessment of what's
S2: happening right now.
S1: As you listen to this look at current events, I
S1: hope you appreciate all of the nuances that Charlie brings
S1: to our understanding of what's going on so complex, but
S1: we appreciate your keeping it in plain English. Charlie, we'll
S1: continue now with a recent report that says archaeologists found
S1: evidence of a lost temple in Chorazin linked to Jesus
S1: healing miracles. Charlie, for someone unfamiliar, where is Chorazin and
S1: how significant is this discovery?
S2: Yeah, and for those of us who've been there, we go.
S2: I know where that is. Chorazin is located about two
S2: miles north of Capernaum and just up the hillside. According
S2: to Matthew 11, it's one of the three cities where
S2: Jesus performed most of his miracles. However, none of the
S2: miracles Jesus did there are actually recorded in the Bible.
S2: That's not a problem, since John tells us Jesus performed
S2: many more miracles than what are recorded. Chorazin is a
S2: great spot to take people to talk about Jesus, and
S2: it's usually not very crowded. Now here's the problem though
S2: with this story, John. At least as it was reported,
S2: it's really not very accurate. In fact, it's rather misleading. First,
S2: there isn't a lost temple there. There are ruins of
S2: a Byzantine era synagogue, and recent excavations at the synagogue
S2: have uncovered what archeologists believe are the remains of the
S2: first century synagogue on the same spot, and that shouldn't
S2: be a surprise. The synagogue tourists see at Capernaum is
S2: also a Byzantine era structure built on the foundation of
S2: the synagogue there in the first century. The second problem
S2: with the story is that nothing significant has actually been discovered,
S2: certainly nothing directly connecting that synagogue to Jesus. Now the
S2: Bible tells us he taught in the synagogues in the region,
S2: and that he performed miracles in Chorazin. But nothing has
S2: been uncovered in this new excavation linking Jesus to the site.
S2: This is a case where someone, I think, is trying
S2: to hype an archaeological dig that really hasn't uncovered anything
S2: of significance, at least not yet. And to me, it's
S2: a good reminder to read more than just the headlines
S2: when you come across this type of story. I love Chorazin,
S2: but the headline for this story was Way Over the Top.
S1: Yeah, well, I love Chorazin too, and so don't let
S1: that dissuade you from visiting if you go to Israel. Right, Charlie?
S2: Oh, absolutely. It's a great spot to visit. Just don't
S2: look for some kind of a secret temple with Jesus
S2: name written on it.
S1: All right, well, artificial intelligence is speeding up the work
S1: of translating ancient inscriptions, including the Epic of Gilgamesh. What's
S1: the significance of this ancient work? And how is AI
S1: helping with its translation? Yeah.
S2: Now, this is the kind of story of advances in
S2: archaeology that won't always necessarily make the news, but that
S2: really is fascinating. First, the significance of the Epic of Gilgamesh.
S2: Back in 1872, an Assyriologist was studying ancient cuneiform tablets,
S2: and he came across a story that loosely parallels the
S2: biblical account of Noah and the flood. And the story's
S2: hero was a man named Gilgamesh. And that's where the
S2: title Epic of Gilgamesh comes from. The Bible preserves the
S2: true account of a worldwide flood, but it's no surprise
S2: that other civilizations preserved parallel accounts of the flood, though
S2: those other accounts, like the Epic of Gilgamesh, became corrupted
S2: as they were passed down from generation to generation. But
S2: now to. This story. Those other accounts are on clay tablets,
S2: some of which have never been translated. There are as
S2: many as half a million cuneiform tablets in museums around
S2: the world, and even more tablet fragments. And with so
S2: few experts in cuneiform, many have not even been read
S2: or published. And that's where the fragmentarium comes in. This
S2: is an AI project from the University of Munich that
S2: uses machine learning to piece together digitized tablet fragments at
S2: a much faster rate than what humans can do. The
S2: project has helped researchers discover new, previously unknown segments of
S2: the Gilgamesh epic and hundreds of words and lines from
S2: other works by speeding up the process. This project could
S2: help advance our understanding of ancient Mesopotamia. But if you
S2: really want to know what happened during the flood, don't
S2: go to the Epic of Gilgamesh. Stick with the Bible.
S1: I think I will. Thank you, Charlie. Hey, what's it
S1: like to be a real Archaeologists digging in the Holy Land.
S1: A look at biblical archaeology up close. Next on the
S1: land and the book. With so many excavations taking place
S1: over so many years in the Holy Land, you'd think
S1: most everything significant has been discovered, right? Not so. In fact,
S1: if I could mix metaphors for a minute here, some
S1: would say all the digging up until now is just
S1: kind of the tip of the iceberg. Hey, up next,
S1: a conversation with with a great biblical archaeologist you need
S1: to meet. Welcome to segment two of The Land and
S1: the book. And as you're putting on your sunscreen for
S1: today's exploration, let's pause for this insight on how to
S1: share your faith with a Jewish friend or relative or coworker.
S1: Maybe it's an next door neighbor. So you want to
S1: reach out to your Jewish friends, and you're starting by
S1: asking what sort of not so effective, maybe what's marginally effective.
S1: That's a question for Eva Rydell, who serves on staff
S1: with Chosen People Ministries in Chicago. What's what's only so-so
S1: with effectiveness, or maybe not working at all with Jewish
S1: people these days?
S3: I think one of the the roadblocks to communication is
S3: to tell a Jewish person, you need to become a Christian. Now,
S3: for us who understand the New Testament and what Jesus said,
S3: to become a Christian is a very positive thing for
S3: a Jewish person to say, let's call him Bob. Bob,
S3: I would really like for you to become a Christian.
S3: And when Bob, your Jewish friend, hears that what he's
S3: hearing you say is, Bob, I want you to stop
S3: being Jewish and start being a Gentile, because in the
S3: Jewish mind, Christian and Gentile are parallel. And here's a
S3: sad corollary to that. And the Jewish mind, so often
S3: Christian and anti-Semite are corollary. So to invite a person
S3: to leave their Jewish identity and all their heritage and
S3: become a member of a group which has historically persecuted
S3: Jewish people. This is not a step that a Jewish
S3: person wants to take. So I think the opening gambit
S3: of don't you want to be a Christian is the
S3: wrong move to make. In its.
S1: Place, we ought to invite them.
S4: To have.
S3: Faith in Messiah Jesus, to understand that they can have
S3: a personal relationship with the God of Abraham, Isaac, and
S3: Jacob through the personal Messiah he sent the Lord Jesus.
S1: Eva Radulovic talks to us today and she serves on
S1: staff with Chosen People Ministries. Thanks for the encouragement. All right.
S1: Stephen Collins is a biblical archaeologist who has logged more
S1: than 25 excavation seasons in Israel and Jordan. He's director
S1: of the School of Archaeology at Veritas International University, and
S1: serves as consulting research professor in the College of Archaeology
S1: for Trinity Southwest University. Doctor Collins teaches Old and New
S1: Testament history, biblical languages, biblical interpretation, and Christian evidential apologetics.
S1: A welcome to the land and the book. Steven.
S5: Great to be with you, John.
S1: Well, I have to say right off the bat, this
S1: book of yours, the Harvest Handbook of Bible Lands, is
S1: absolutely gorgeous. Thank you for your work on it.
S5: Well, I appreciate that. That was something we got into
S5: that we had always wanted to do, kind of bring
S5: folks up to the latest archaeological discoveries and, and thoughts and,
S5: you know, ways to connect the ancient Near East with
S5: the Bible. And we hope people enjoy it.
S1: Well, this is obviously not the first book attempting to
S1: showcase the findings of biblical archaeology. So what made you
S1: guys want to do it?
S5: It allowed us to take what we've been working on
S5: for 35, 40 years, and to incorporate it into a
S5: single volume that could be helpful to people, and placing
S5: the Bible within its ancient Near Eastern context and understanding
S5: it in that way.
S1: Well, we're all familiar with Indiana Jones, of course, for
S1: good or bad. But why don't you share what a
S1: typical day is actually like for a real Archaeologist.
S5: Well, I suppose if you compare it to the movie,
S5: the real daily life of an archaeologist is pretty boring.
S5: Although I usually tell people say, well, you know, what's
S5: what's archaeology like? And sometimes I, I kind of jokingly
S5: tell them, well, you know, Indiana Jones, our life is
S5: way more exciting than that. But not, you know, archeology
S5: is a slow, meticulous, grinding process. It's expensive. It takes
S5: a lot of planning and logistics and, you know, you're working.
S5: You're working with trowels and dustpans and brushes and, you know,
S5: an occasional pick. But, you know, you're removing things very,
S5: very slowly and it takes years. Our, our excavations at
S5: Tal Hamam just wrapped up after after almost 20 years.
S5: So it's a it's a slow, slow process. And then
S5: it takes you 8 or 10 years to publish all
S5: your findings. So when you get involved in a big project,
S5: sometimes it can eat your life up.
S1: Sounds like you have to really have a vision for
S1: what you hope is there, and a tenacity to go
S1: with that vision. Fair enough.
S5: Oh, absolutely. And of course, in our particular case with talisman,
S5: it was working with the geography of the biblical text
S5: that brought us to that site to start with. So
S5: we had we had biblical expectations, you might say, going in. Yeah.
S1: Biblical archaeology. That's our focus today on the land and
S1: the book. I'm John Gager. Our guest, Stephen Collins, who
S1: has logged more than 25 excavation seasons. How long is
S1: a season? Stephen?
S5: Well, typically in a lot of sites that we've worked on,
S5: four weeks would be a season. So you have you
S5: have several days to ramp up, a few days to
S5: shut down at the end. So usually 4 to 5
S5: weeks is about right. The seasons at our site in
S5: Jordan tall el-hammam were a little bit longer. They were
S5: typically 6 to 7 weeks long, and since we lost
S5: two years to Covid. Last year. We did a ten
S5: week season sort of double up and make up for
S5: lost time. But, um, you can only work in the
S5: field for so long. I mean, we have day jobs. We,
S5: you know, we teach, we write, and so you have
S5: to get back to what you're actually getting paid for.
S5: So being in the field is where we like to be.
S1: So this brings up another question. Who all pays for
S1: this then? You know you got a plane ticket, you
S1: got housing, you got food while you're there. How does
S1: that work?
S5: All of those expenses of staff expenses and hotel rooms
S5: and all those things have to be covered. It would
S5: typically cost us a quarter of $1 million per season. Wow.
S5: And so it's expensive. And in our case, we didn't
S5: get institutional money. But we have donors that are just
S5: part of what we do. And they've been with us
S5: for a long time and they fund us. So we're
S5: funded by private donations, mostly from Christian people. All right.
S1: What's the oldest archaeological item you've ever held in your
S1: hands or touched while digging.
S5: Oh, we have a lot of things we hold in
S5: our hands from our sight, because our sight is is
S5: a massive Bronze Age site. It's the largest Bronze Age
S5: site in the southern Levant. So we're typically holding items
S5: that are, you know, 5000, 6000 years old on a
S5: daily basis.
S1: How about the most amazing archaeological item that you've ever encountered?
S1: What would that be for you? We've talked about the oldest,
S1: but what about you went wow, wow, wow.
S5: Well, there's always a lot of that because I'm a
S5: pottery guy. I'm, you know, ceramics is one of my
S5: areas of expertise. And I love the pottery. I love
S5: the the painted pottery, all the finely made decorated stuff.
S5: And that's all wonderful. But but also, I love the architecture.
S5: I love big buildings, I love fortifications. And so when
S5: we find fortification ramparts that are 50ft at the base
S5: and and eight feet at the top and 100ft high,
S5: and walls that are palace walls at 2 or 3m thick,
S5: which is almost ten feet thick. So when you see
S5: the massive buildings, it's just incredible. It really helps you
S5: understand that these ancient people were highly technical builders. They
S5: understood what they wanted to do and how to do it,
S5: and their lives were not small. Many of these Canaanite
S5: kings lived lived life on a pretty big scale.
S1: Today, on the land and the book, we're talking with
S1: archaeologist Steven Collins. How is your own faith been bolstered
S1: not just by your own discoveries, but but those of
S1: other archaeologists?
S5: For me personally, I wouldn't say archaeology is a faith
S5: bolstering thing because, you know, my faith and trust in
S5: Jesus and belief that he he is God in the
S5: flesh and who he claims to be, comes from his
S5: historical physical demonstration of his resurrection from the dead. I mean,
S5: for me, that all focuses on on who he is
S5: and and what he accomplished through his resurrection, which is
S5: a provable historical event. But I like the illuminating power
S5: of archaeology to give us insight into how people lived.
S5: So when you talk about, for example, Abraham lit a lamp,
S5: or David lit a lamp, or Jesus talks about lamps,
S5: what are those lamps look like? What does that world
S5: look like? If they ate a meal, what does that
S5: plate or bowl look like? And so these are the
S5: simple things that I like that just show how people lived.
S5: And of course, we dig up what they ate and
S5: how they cooked it and what kind of ovens they had.
S5: So it's really a comprehensive look at what kind of
S5: world they lived in.
S1: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. You know, before going
S1: to Israel, my idea of an oil lamp, as in,
S1: you know, you had the ten virgins or whatever, you know, these,
S1: these oil lamps in Scripture. I thought of it as
S1: something like, uh, you know, an Aladdin's lamp, something maybe
S1: the size of a football. But these oil lamps typically
S1: are very small, just a few inches long. That kind
S1: of blew my mind.
S5: Yeah, they are very small and in each period they
S5: look very different. So the the lamp when King David said,
S5: thy word is a lamp unto my feet. That lamp
S5: doesn't look anything about, like the lamp that Jesus was
S5: talking about when he talked about, don't hide your lamp
S5: under a basket.
S1: Then what are the differences? How are they different?
S5: Well, earlier lamps going all the way back to Abraham's time.
S5: They're simply bowls. They're small bowls that they would hang
S5: a flax wick over the side of and have olive
S5: oil in it. And a tablespoon of olive oil gets
S5: you about 7 or 8 hours of light. And so
S5: they worked really well. And then they eventually kind of
S5: began to squeeze that bowl a little bit on one
S5: side and make a spout out of it. And those
S5: became the spouted bowl lamps that are common in King
S5: David's time. And those kind of lamps go all the
S5: way down until the conquering of the area by Alexander
S5: the Great. And then you get the Greek style lamp introduced,
S5: which was very similar to what the Romans eventually did
S5: in the time of Jesus. So the Herodian lamp, that
S5: New Testament period lamp that Jesus would have used, and
S5: all the Jewish communities would have used, is very small
S5: and very simple and very unlike what King David, that
S5: open bowl that King David used because Jesus's time, the
S5: lamps are closed so they don't spill as easy, let's say.
S1: When excavating in Israel, you're working in a region that
S1: has plenty of enthusiasm for Old Testament discoveries, but maybe
S1: not so much interest in the New Testament. How does
S1: that manifest itself in getting access to these sites in
S1: paperwork and clearances, or is that a non-factor?
S5: It's really kind of a non-factor. All of us in
S5: archaeology more or less specialize, you know, either in the
S5: classical period, say, Roman times, you know, Greco-Roman times, or
S5: in my case, the Bronze Age. I mean, I love
S5: the Bronze Age. I like being back there in the
S5: Torah times, times of Moses and Joshua, and even before that,
S5: with the patriarchs. That's my my love. But everybody has
S5: their favorite period. And I think for me, that's that's
S5: got to be the Bronze Age.
S1: Stephen Collins has co-authored the Harvest Handbook of Bible Lands,
S1: a large format, beautiful, lots of full color pictures in it.
S1: Encourage you to check it out. You know, in many places,
S1: politics plays a role, often hindering the work of biblical archaeologists.
S1: You see, the playing field is fairly level these days.
S1: Or will archaeologists have an increasingly difficult time accessing sites
S1: in days ahead?
S5: That's a great question. Um. It fluctuates. Even though we
S5: would think that the Israeli archaeologists are more respective of
S5: the biblical historicity. Um, that's not always true. In fact,
S5: so many of the Israeli archaeologists that we know and
S5: work with don't really believe that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph,
S5: Moses and Joshua were real people. And so it's very secular.
S5: It's a very secular liberal, often atheistic, discipline. And what
S5: was interesting about that is working in Jordan as long
S5: as I have, I always tell my Jordanian colleagues, you
S5: guys are more biblically conservative than the Israelis on the
S5: other side of the river. And that's generally true because,
S5: you know, they have everybody from Abraham to Jesus as
S5: one of their own prophets. So you just can't categorically
S5: dismiss all of that history. And so believing the Bible
S5: and working with biblical texts and finding biblical sites is
S5: pretty comfortable thing to do in Jordan, simply because there
S5: is a lot of respect amongst the Jordanians about these
S5: biblical characters that are also shared by the Islamic tradition.
S1: What about the future? Do we have enough interest in
S1: archaeology to the point that there are going to be
S1: trained people to do the work?
S5: Well, at Veritas International University School of Archaeology, we have
S5: the largest stable of master's Masters and doctoral students in archaeology.
S5: We have a stable of over 50. If you add
S5: Tsu in that we work with a stable of over
S5: 100 students. And so these are 100 people that are training.
S5: These are the future of archaeology and the Bible.
S1: So in a sentence or two, how would you have
S1: people utilize the Harvest Handbook of Bible Lands for maximum effectiveness?
S5: Well, I would say read the chapter that has to
S5: do with the period that the Bible book you're reading
S5: belongs to. If I'm going to read the book of Genesis,
S5: I would look at that chapter on the patriarchs. If
S5: I was going to read something about the time of
S5: of Moses and Joshua, I would go to the Harvest
S5: Handbook and read that chapter. That has to do with
S5: the Late Bronze Age. And through the book it's introduced
S5: like that. These are the this is the late Bronze Age,
S5: but this is the time of Moses and Joshua. This
S5: is the Iron Age two period. This is the time
S5: of King David and Solomon. And go back and read
S5: those chapters and review that. So you get a sense
S5: of the culture. What did the weapons look like? What
S5: did the houses look like? What is this world that
S5: they live in? Because each period is different, the times
S5: of Moses are very different from the later times of
S5: the Israelite kings.
S1: Well, we look forward to more great stories from your
S1: archaeological work in the days ahead. Stephen, thank you for
S1: joining us.
S6: John, I appreciate you having me on.
S1: And we'll have a link to the Harvest Handbook of
S1: Bible Lands at our website. The land and the book. Org.
S1: Charlie's back. Your questions next on the land and the book.
S1: It's the land and the book from Moody Radio. Our host,
S1: doctor Charlie Dyer. I'm John Yeager. We love this segment
S1: because it involves things that are puzzling you and everybody.
S1: Let's be honest. When you read through, Scripture comes to
S1: something that makes you kind of scratch your head. And
S1: this is the place to not just scratch your head,
S1: but fill it with some answers. So welcome. Well, you know,
S1: Israel has been in the news quite a bit over
S1: the past year. And as we know, the Bible is
S1: jam packed with end times prophecies about epic world events,
S1: the regathering of the Jewish people to their homeland. And
S1: of course, Jesus returned. It is crucial for us as believers, though,
S1: to have a proper understanding of Bible prophecy. Otherwise, our
S1: future is shaped by headlines in the news rather than Scripture. Right, Charlie?
S2: That's right. John. And in fact, with this in mind,
S2: our friends at Life and Messiah have published a book
S2: titled God, Israel and Bible Prophecy, and they're offering it
S2: free to listeners of the land in the book for
S2: a limited time. This informative book is focused on providing
S2: readers with a deeper understanding and greater appreciation of what
S2: God has in store for Israel and the nations by
S2: digging into what the scriptures say about these issues. Now,
S2: if you're interested in learning more about what God has
S2: in store, visit Life in messiah.org and click on the
S2: Moody Radio button there to find out how you can
S2: receive your copy of God, Israel and Bible prophecy. That's
S2: life in messiah.org. All right.
S1: Our questions for the day, starting with Terry, who says
S1: a friend and I are finishing up the Gospel of Matthew.
S1: A great study, and we noted when starting a review
S1: that the Christ child was likely one and a half
S1: to two years old at the time of the wise
S1: man's visit. Do you have any idea, though, how or
S1: why this tradition evolved that they appeared on the scene
S1: at the stable at the time of his birth, along
S1: with the shepherds, and we're also wondering why this has
S1: been carried along by the church when it's quite clear
S1: that this image is incorrect. Your thoughts?
S2: Yeah, I've not come across any specific reason that the
S2: church pictures the visit of the wise men taking place
S2: right at the time of Jesus's birth. I suspect it's
S2: because both Matthew two and Luke two describe the different
S2: events connected to Jesus's birth in Bethlehem, and people just
S2: assumed they took place at exactly the same time. But
S2: I do have one other thought. I personally don't believe
S2: the events in Matthew two had to take place a
S2: year and a half to two years later. We sometimes
S2: assume this because in Matthew 216 it says Herod ordered
S2: the soldiers to kill the babies two years old and under.
S2: But since there weren't any birth certificates issued at birth,
S2: how would the soldiers know the child's age? The wise
S2: men might have been somewhat imprecise in their calculations, but
S2: Herod was nothing if not thorough. If the child were
S2: several months or more old by his reckoning, how could
S2: he be sure to kill the right baby? Well, two
S2: years old is about when children start to speak. Any
S2: child who couldn't yet talk was to be killed, and
S2: the baby was said to be born in Bethlehem. But
S2: Herod decided to kill all the male children, it says,
S2: in Bethlehem and its vicinity. So how old was Jesus
S2: at the time of the wise men visiting? Well, depending
S2: on the length of the journey of the wise men,
S2: I suspect it was likely several months, or perhaps even
S2: as much as a year. The event did take place
S2: sometime after Jesus was born, since the families now living
S2: in a house. but the decision to kill all the
S2: boys two and under is more a reflection, I think,
S2: of Herod's paranoia than it is of Jesus's actual age
S2: at the time.
S1: René wonders, did or could God know what physical pain
S1: is like without experiencing it? God is spirit. He cannot bleed.
S1: And prior to the incarnation, he had no body. What
S1: do you think?
S2: Well, I'm not sure I can provide a fully satisfying
S2: answer here, since I don't see it being directly addressed
S2: in the Bible, but I do believe we can answer
S2: it in another way in two parts. First, God in
S2: his very essence, is incorporeal. That is, prior to the incarnation,
S2: God did not possess a physical body with nerve endings, etc.
S2: that would allow him to experience physical pain. But second,
S2: God is also omniscient, which means he did fully know
S2: and understand what pain would be like. Now, I don't
S2: believe anything, including an understanding of pain, could exist outside
S2: God's knowledge. He fully understood the impact that it would
S2: have on individual humans. In the incarnation, God became flesh
S2: in the person of Jesus, and as God man, he
S2: fully experienced pain. At revelation 13 eight says, Jesus was
S2: the lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
S2: And I take that to mean even prior to the
S2: beginning of the universe, God's plan included the suffering of
S2: his own son. Putting all that together, I think God
S2: fully knew what physical pain would be like in his creation,
S2: and that his Son would experience it as part of
S2: the plan necessary to purchase our redemption. And and then,
S2: in the unfolding of time, what he knew because of
S2: his omniscience became known experientially through Jesus. And I think
S2: actually Isaiah 53 graphically describes that 700 years before it
S2: ever came to be.
S1: A.D. takes us to Matthew 12, verses 36 and 37,
S1: which speak of us having to give an account of
S1: all careless words spoken during our lifetime. Is there a
S1: special judgment based on our words? Since Jesus blood covers
S1: all of our sins, Why is there a separate judgment
S1: for our words?
S2: Well, it's true that Christ's atoning death on the cross
S2: is sufficient to pay the penalty for our sins. So
S2: a believer's eternal destiny is secure. However, the Bible does
S2: speak about the Bema Seat judgment, where believers will appear
S2: before Christ to have our works examined. And this would
S2: include what we have said and done since becoming believers.
S2: In first Corinthians 310 to 15, Paul talks about there
S2: by the grace God has given me, I laid a
S2: foundation as an expert builder and someone else is building
S2: on it. But then he says everyone should be careful
S2: how he builds. In fact, he talks there about if
S2: any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood,
S2: hay or straw, his work will be shown for what
S2: it is because the day will bring it to light.
S2: If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
S2: If it is burned up, he'll suffer loss. He himself
S2: will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
S2: Then later in two Corinthians five, Paul wrote, we must
S2: all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each
S2: 1st May receive what is due him for the things
S2: done in the body, whether good or bad. So I
S2: think our eternal destiny is secure through the work of Christ.
S2: But as children of God, we're responsible to continue to
S2: grow and mature in Christ likeness. And one aspect comes
S2: through not only what we do, but what we say.
S2: And I'll close with a portion of what James said
S2: in James three two. We all stumble in many ways.
S2: If anyone is never at fault in what he says,
S2: he's a perfect man, able to keep his whole body
S2: in check. And the word for perfect. There has the
S2: idea of mature or complete. You know, our speech is
S2: an x ray that helps reveal how spiritually mature we
S2: really are inside.
S1: And you're listening to The Land in the book from
S1: Moody Radio doctor Charlie Dyer, our host, addressing questions that
S1: have come to us via email. This one from Todd.
S1: Can you contrast second Samuel 22 with the Book of Job?
S1: For me, the formula obedience brings blessing seemed to kind
S1: of work for David, but not for job.
S2: Yeah, I see that second Samuel 22 passage. And in fact,
S2: it's also parallel in Psalm 18, in the light of
S2: the wisdom literature that is in general, God does reward
S2: and bless the righteous. David did sin in his life,
S2: and we see consequences in the last half of second Samuel.
S2: But as he looks over his life, he sees that
S2: when he was threatened, God came to his rescue because
S2: of his righteousness. He says, God parted the heavens and
S2: came down, showed himself faithful to those who were faithful.
S2: Now that's how life generally works. But the Book of
S2: Job reminds us that there are exceptions. In job's case,
S2: it was due to a cosmic conflict, totally unknown to job.
S2: But even in the book of job, his earlier life
S2: in the first chapter shows the same general pattern, that is,
S2: that God was blessing him because of his faithfulness. And
S2: in the end of the book, the same thing is true.
S2: So I see this as a reminder that this is
S2: how life generally works. But I'm also reminded there are
S2: times in life when we do see apparent exceptions, and
S2: in those times we just need to walk by faith
S2: and not by sight.
S1: Aaron comments in Genesis 18. Abraham intercedes for the righteous
S1: in Sodom, and it reminds me of the bartering that
S1: takes place in the Old City of Jerusalem today. I
S1: wondered what you thought about that comparison.
S2: You know, I do see comparisons to actually what we
S2: observe in bargaining in the Middle East. The difference is
S2: that in typical bargaining situations, you have offers and counteroffers
S2: being made. Now, in Genesis 18, Abraham makes a request.
S2: He hopes the Lord will find acceptable. And once God
S2: says yes, he then tries to push the envelope, so
S2: to speak, to have the Lord lower the threshold until
S2: he reaches a number that Abraham hopes will reflect reality.
S2: But to answer the question, this does make perfect sense
S2: in that culture.
S1: All right. Todd wants to know why was Solomon David's
S1: successor instead of an earlier born child?
S2: That's a little bit complex, because we don't know the
S2: order of birth for all David's children. But in first
S2: Chronicles three, we're given the names of all David's sons.
S2: And four of them it says were by Bathsheba. In fact,
S2: Solomon is listed fourth. So we know that the order
S2: there isn't the order in which all the children were
S2: actually given birth. Having said that, here's my best guess
S2: in the order. It does say Amnon was the firstborn there,
S2: which presumably would put him first in line, but he
S2: was killed by Absalom following his rape of Tamar. Now
S2: we're not told anything about the second son listed. His
S2: name is Daniel, which suggests maybe he died before reaching adulthood.
S2: The next child, listed as Absalom, who led a failed
S2: coup against David and died in battle, and the next
S2: son listed as Adonijah, who tried to usurp the throne
S2: at the time of David's death, he failed. He was
S2: later put to death for again trying to manipulate events
S2: to replace Solomon. Now, we don't know much about the
S2: other male heirs, though I think it's probable that Solomon
S2: could legitimately have been the next in line. So he
S2: was the first legitimate heir to be able to take
S2: the throne.
S1: Well, thank you for your questions today, Charlie. Thank you
S1: for those great answers. Powerful insights, helpful stuff for sure.
S1: And we welcome your question. Any time when you email
S1: us at The Land and the book@moody.edu. We also welcome
S1: you to visit our website, where you'll find links to
S1: today's guest, information about past and future programs, and a
S1: whole lot more. That's the land and the books.org. Don't
S1: go away. One more segment to come. Charlie's devotional next.
S1: Right here. Have you ever come to a passage in
S1: Scripture and you say, I should memorize that verse? And
S1: maybe you memorize the verse and then you see the
S1: one surrounding and you go, I should memorize those two
S1: and maybe the whole chapter for me. Colossians chapter three
S1: is one of those chapters. I'm John Gager. This is
S1: the land and the book. But, Charlie, you've singled out
S1: a special verse today that we're going to look at
S1: in your devotional. Tell us about it.
S2: Yeah, it's going to be Colossians 316, and we're going
S2: to look at a little bit around it as well, John.
S1: All right. I'm looking forward to that after we pause
S1: for this Holy Land experience.
S7: I guess my trip could be summed up in tears.
S7: Number one was tears. To be able to be in
S7: the land, to walk in the places and touch the
S7: sites where Jesus had been. Particularly Peter's house in Capernaum.
S7: I guess my second set of tears were for the
S7: people to know that Israel is such a small area,
S7: but it has such a big God. To know that
S7: enemies within and enemies without the father, God's hand is
S7: on that land and that he is protecting, he is providing.
S7: To see the ingenuity that he has given the people
S7: to work the land and to make it produce for them.
S7: And I guess my last set of tears were for
S7: the fact that I could not give up my citizenship
S7: here in America and just move and live there in
S7: the land, and to be there when Jesus returned.
S1: Colossians chapter three. What a great, great chapter. I love
S1: the book of Colossians. I'm looking forward to your devotional.
S2: I think you'll like this, John. This is week four
S2: of my five week series on famous 3/16 of the Bible,
S2: and today finds us in the interior of Western Turkey.
S2: We're about 100 miles east of ancient Ephesus and just
S2: nine miles southeast of Laodicea. The ruins of Ephesus and
S2: Laodicea are impressive, but we're visiting a far less imposing location.
S2: The hill in front of us is the site of
S2: the ancient city of Colossae. To the south of the city,
S2: Mount Cadmus rises up, forming a majestic background. And next
S2: to where we're standing, the Lycus River rushes down from
S2: the hills and out onto the plain. About four centuries
S2: before the time of Jesus, Colossae was a populous and
S2: prosperous town known for its wool trade. It had also
S2: gained something of a geographical and religious notoriety in volume
S2: two of his history. Fifth century BC writer Herodotus described
S2: Colossae as a great city of Phrygia, where the river
S2: Lycus falls into an opening in the earth and disappears
S2: from view, and then, after an interval of about five furlongs,
S2: that's about 3300ft. It comes up to view again before
S2: eventually flowing into the Maeander River. This geographical anomaly became
S2: connected to a mixture of pagan and Jewish mysticism, and
S2: even as the town declined economically, religious speculation continued unabated
S2: with its mixture of pagans, Jews and then Christians. The
S2: inhabitants of Colossae were influenced by a syncretistic blend of
S2: different beliefs. One aspect of this has been called a
S2: Jewish cult of angels. F.F. Bruce described it this way
S2: there were powerful forces at work. Chief among those were
S2: those tendencies which in a few decades blossomed forth in
S2: the elaborate system of the various schools of Gnosticism. One
S2: form of incipient Gnosticism is the Syncretistic angel cult of
S2: nonconformist Jewish foundation and pagan superstructure. So how did the
S2: disappearing and reappearing Lycus River connect to an angel cult? Well,
S2: this unorthodox cult venerated the Archangel Michael, who is said
S2: to have caused a curative spring to gush from a
S2: fissure in the earth. The reappearance of the river, combined
S2: with this mixture of Jewish and pagan beliefs, could be
S2: what Paul had in mind when he wrote in his
S2: letter to the church at Colossae to warn them against
S2: anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels. Now,
S2: as far as we know, Paul never visited the city
S2: of Colossae, and yet he cared deeply for the believers there.
S2: As he penned his letter to this church, he wrote
S2: in chapter two. I want you to know how much
S2: I am struggling for you, and for those at Laodicea,
S2: and for all who have not met me personally. The
S2: phrase out of sight, out of mind didn't describe Paul
S2: or his genuine care for the believers in this town,
S2: but right about now you might be asking yourself, so
S2: why are we standing here at the site of ancient Colossae?
S2: After all, the town has vanished. The mound in front
S2: of us has never been excavated. The site's relatively small,
S2: and the city likely only had a few thousand inhabitants.
S2: By the time Paul wrote to them, it had been
S2: eclipsed by the nearby cities of Laodicea and Hierapolis. From
S2: the tiny letter of Philemon, we do know Paul hoped
S2: to visit here after his release from prison, but were
S2: never told whether he made it or not. So what
S2: makes this place so important? And what's the famous 316
S2: in Paul's letter here that can transform our lives? I'm
S2: glad you asked Paul's answer to a church struggling theologically,
S2: to a church that he'd never visited personally, was to
S2: point them to Jesus. The best way to spot a counterfeit,
S2: any counterfeit is to become intimately acquainted with the original.
S2: From counterfeit money to forged paintings. The more you know
S2: all the subtle details and characteristics of the original, the
S2: better prepared you are to spot any fakes. So what's
S2: the original Paul holds up for them to study? Simply put,
S2: it's Jesus. In chapter one, verses 15 and 16, Jesus
S2: is the image of the invisible God and the one
S2: who created all things in 117. He's the one who
S2: holds all things together in one. 18 to 19 Jesus
S2: is the head of the church. He's the one who
S2: rose from the dead and who's supreme over all. He's
S2: the one who died on the cross and shed his
S2: own blood to reconcile us to God. In chapter two,
S2: verse three, Jesus is the one in whom are hidden
S2: all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. In chapter two,
S2: verse eight, Paul says that any so-called truth, apart from
S2: the truth found in Jesus, is just hollow and deceptive philosophy.
S2: In two nine, Jesus is the one in whom all
S2: the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form. Jesus
S2: is the head over every power and authority. The Old
S2: Testament dietary laws and religious festivals were a foreshadowing of
S2: the reality that was to come. But Paul says in
S2: verse 17, the reality is found in Christ. You get
S2: the picture. To avoid getting sucked into false teaching, whatever
S2: its source, the solution is to come to know everything
S2: you can about Jesus in his fullness as God's Son
S2: and our Savior. And then Paul comes to chapter three,
S2: where he explores the practical outworking of our focus on Jesus.
S2: He begins in verses one and two by telling us
S2: to set your hearts on things above, where Christ is
S2: seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind
S2: on things above, not on earthly things. Move your mental
S2: zip code from earth to heaven, and concentrate on the
S2: one with whom you will be spending eternity. People sometimes say,
S2: you can be so heavenly minded that you're no earthly good,
S2: but Paul would disagree. In fact, he gets very practical
S2: as he moves through the chapter. Since Christ is all
S2: and is in all, our connection with him should show
S2: up in all we do in life. Listen to his
S2: list of practical commands. Clothe yourself with compassion, kindness, humility,
S2: gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever
S2: grievance you may have against one another. Forgive as the
S2: Lord forgave you, and over all these virtues put on love,
S2: which binds them all together in perfect unity. Setting your
S2: heart on things above with Jesus will show up in
S2: your day to day walk as you look forward to
S2: being with him in eternity. And then we come to
S2: Paul's 316 moment. Well, actually, his 316 is set like
S2: a jewel in a three jewel crown. Where to? Where?
S2: Verse 15. Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts.
S2: Verse 16, let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly.
S2: Verse 17. Whatever you do, whether in word or deed,
S2: do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving
S2: thanks to God the Father through him. Experience Jesus's peace.
S2: Take in Jesus's Word and represent Jesus well in your actions. Cults.
S2: false religions and syncretistic forms of worship. Focus on your duties,
S2: what you must do to win favor with God. They
S2: can sound good, but in the end, it's all about
S2: your effort, and there's a sense of pride that comes
S2: with the feeling that you're on the inside track, that
S2: you mastered the secret recipe that you're working your way
S2: into God's favor through your own efforts, and the way
S2: to avoid getting sucked into such a trap is to
S2: focus on the genuine article. Jesus. Get to know him deeply, personally, intimately.
S2: And Colossians 316 provides the key. Let the Word of
S2: Christ dwell in you richly. If you want to know Jesus,
S2: get to know His word. Paul then explains how later
S2: in the verse, teach and admonish one another with all wisdom.
S2: Go to church, attend Bible studies, listen online or read
S2: for yourself, but connect to God's Word. Take it in.
S2: Let it become part of the very fabric of your
S2: being so you can begin to think God's thoughts. And
S2: when you do, you'll find yourself experiencing God's supernatural peace
S2: with a thankful heart. Now, as we say goodbye to
S2: Colossae and head home, what practical lessons can you take
S2: along with you? Let me suggest this. This next week
S2: take time to read through the book of Colossians. It's
S2: only four chapters and highlight or underline everything Paul says
S2: about Jesus, what he's done for you and what he
S2: now calls on you to do as you wait to
S2: meet him, and then see if you don't find yourself
S2: thinking more clearly and living more. Thankfully, as you allow
S2: His Word to dwell richly in you.
S1: Thank you Charlie. I'm still parked at that phrase of yours.
S1: Move your mental zipcode from earth to heaven. Beloved, you
S1: can hear today's devotional or the entire program again, as
S1: always at the land and the books.org. Thanks for listening today.
S1: I'm John Gager for our host, Charlie Dyer. The land
S1: and the book is a production of Moody Radio, a
S1: ministry of Moody Bible Institute.