1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,920 S1: I am drawn to guests who have allowed God access 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:12,039 S1: to the wounds in their life, because that wound can 3 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:15,440 S1: be a place of healing for them as well as others. 4 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,360 S1: And I think that's what's going to happen today for 5 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:23,160 S1: foster parents or adoptive parents, and especially for those who 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,760 S1: were raised, disconnected from your first family. Because if you 7 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:30,800 S1: are in any of those categories, or if you know 8 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,960 S1: someone in any of those categories, Mary Ann's lived experience 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,120 S1: is going to encourage you. It's going to give you hope. 10 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,120 S1: It's going to validate some of the feelings you probably 11 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:43,960 S1: have and we hope help you take the next step today. 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,440 S1: She writes, I am not a polished success story, but 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:51,120 S1: God asked me to say yes even when it meant 14 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:56,200 S1: revisiting painful places. Many of us have been misunderstood, labeled, 15 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,440 S1: or passed through systems that never saw us. We carry 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:06,000 S1: wounds from families, foster homes, churches and schools. Still, we 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,480 S1: are here. And the phrase that jumped out at me 18 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,760 S1: was systems that never saw us. A number on a 19 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:17,080 S1: case file, a statistic in a sea of statistics. You 20 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,080 S1: are more than that. And I'm glad Doctor Mary Ann 21 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,199 S1: McMillan is going to join us straight ahead on the program. 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,480 S1: From the heart to the heart for the heart online 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,880 S1: at Chris fabry.org. Let me thank our team, Ryan McConaughey 24 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,399 S1: doing all things technical. Tricia McMillan is our producer. Lisa 25 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,160 S1: is here. Happy birthday Lisa. Josh will be answering your calls. 26 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,240 S1: And thank you friends and partners who support us financially. 27 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,800 S1: Each month. I choose something that I think you'll enjoy 28 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,760 S1: and benefit from. And I was so excited when I 29 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,320 S1: heard this has been probably about a year ago or more. 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,480 S1: I heard Phil and Kevin were putting together a celebration 31 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,440 S1: of 100 years of Moody radio. Can you believe we 32 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:58,080 S1: started in 1926? I wasn't around then, but we started 33 00:01:58,130 --> 00:02:00,930 S1: back a hundred years ago, and this book walks you 34 00:02:00,970 --> 00:02:05,810 S1: through the decades with pictures, with history, with memorabilia. It's fascinating. 35 00:02:06,290 --> 00:02:08,609 S1: If Moody Radio has made a difference in your life. 36 00:02:08,610 --> 00:02:10,890 S1: Call or click through. Give a gift of any size. 37 00:02:10,930 --> 00:02:12,850 S1: I want you to have a copy. We're right in 38 00:02:12,850 --> 00:02:15,490 S1: the middle of July. Today would be a great day. 39 00:02:15,530 --> 00:02:25,410 S1: Call 8669538669532279. Or go to Chris fabry.org. I say this 40 00:02:25,410 --> 00:02:28,210 S1: program is from for and to the heart. This book 41 00:02:28,210 --> 00:02:32,169 S1: is the same. It captures the soul of so many 42 00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:36,010 S1: who have proclaimed the gospel for a hundred years in 43 00:02:36,050 --> 00:02:41,250 S1: speech and in song. Go to Chris Fabry live.org. Scroll down. 44 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:44,170 S1: You'll see it right there. One This is Moody radio 45 00:02:44,169 --> 00:02:48,610 S1: 100 years proclaiming the gospel. Let us hear from you today. Today, 46 00:02:48,610 --> 00:02:54,330 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. Okay, I gotta settle down. Your support 47 00:02:54,330 --> 00:02:57,570 S1: means we get to have today's conversation. that may not 48 00:02:57,570 --> 00:03:01,570 S1: touch your life directly. You might not be an adoptive parent. 49 00:03:01,570 --> 00:03:03,850 S1: You might not be a foster parent. You might not 50 00:03:03,850 --> 00:03:07,770 S1: have been in the foster system or adopted yourself. But 51 00:03:07,770 --> 00:03:10,970 S1: but this group of people, I believe, is so important 52 00:03:10,970 --> 00:03:14,010 S1: to God. He sees you today, and I believe the 53 00:03:14,010 --> 00:03:17,570 S1: church can have a huge impact on those right in 54 00:03:17,570 --> 00:03:20,970 S1: the middle of that struggle. When I saw Doctor McMillan's 55 00:03:20,970 --> 00:03:24,049 S1: book was coming out, it releases next Tuesday, I said 56 00:03:24,090 --> 00:03:28,410 S1: a very quick yes, not only because of the research included, 57 00:03:28,410 --> 00:03:31,410 S1: not only because of the sound theology and the practical 58 00:03:31,410 --> 00:03:34,570 S1: help it gives, but also because it's written by someone 59 00:03:35,050 --> 00:03:39,650 S1: who has lived this. Doctor Maryann McMillan is a former 60 00:03:39,650 --> 00:03:42,850 S1: foster youth and adoptee whose life has been shaped by 61 00:03:42,850 --> 00:03:47,890 S1: the realities of family separation, identity rupture, and the lifelong 62 00:03:47,890 --> 00:03:52,250 S1: search for belonging. She's a professor, researcher, writer, and global advocate, 63 00:03:52,250 --> 00:03:55,970 S1: holds a doctorate in education and teaches courses in human rights, 64 00:03:55,970 --> 00:04:01,210 S1: criminal justice and international relations. Her academic work focuses on 65 00:04:01,210 --> 00:04:05,210 S1: vulnerable children, both in the U.S. and globally, and the 66 00:04:05,210 --> 00:04:08,930 S1: featured resource. We have a link right there, Chris fabry.org, 67 00:04:09,250 --> 00:04:14,930 S1: Bridging resilience. And the subtitle is long, but it's very good. Description. 68 00:04:14,970 --> 00:04:20,690 S1: A Guide to Healing for adoptees and former foster youth 69 00:04:20,690 --> 00:04:25,810 S1: families and the leaders who walk with them. So everybody's included. Again, 70 00:04:25,810 --> 00:04:31,130 S1: bridging resilience. Go to Chris Fabry live.org. Doctor McMillan, welcome 71 00:04:31,130 --> 00:04:32,810 S1: to the program. How are you doing today? 72 00:04:33,290 --> 00:04:35,169 S2: I'm doing well. How are you. 73 00:04:35,610 --> 00:04:37,930 S1: I'm doing great that you've been you are here. And 74 00:04:37,930 --> 00:04:39,970 S1: I was telling you before we went on the program 75 00:04:40,410 --> 00:04:42,650 S1: that I get an awful lot of pitches. And as 76 00:04:42,650 --> 00:04:44,530 S1: soon as I didn't even see the book, I saw 77 00:04:44,529 --> 00:04:47,730 S1: the the press release for this. It's like, yes, I've 78 00:04:47,770 --> 00:04:50,130 S1: got to have doctor McMillan on the program because I 79 00:04:50,130 --> 00:04:52,450 S1: know there are so many people who are right in 80 00:04:52,450 --> 00:04:55,850 S1: the crosshairs of what you're writing about today, and I 81 00:04:55,850 --> 00:04:59,130 S1: want to read you a quote from the beginning of 82 00:04:59,130 --> 00:05:03,010 S1: the book. You say healing is not simple or quick. 83 00:05:03,370 --> 00:05:07,489 S1: It means telling the truth. Finding words for what we 84 00:05:07,490 --> 00:05:12,609 S1: endured and seeking support. Forgiveness will look different for each 85 00:05:12,610 --> 00:05:15,450 S1: of us, and sometimes the only forgiveness possible is the 86 00:05:15,450 --> 00:05:20,490 S1: kind we give ourselves. That is enough. You are not failing. 87 00:05:20,529 --> 00:05:24,890 S1: You are human. Unpack why you wrote that toward the 88 00:05:24,890 --> 00:05:25,929 S1: beginning of the book. 89 00:05:28,410 --> 00:05:32,850 S2: Yes I am. For me, in the last 15 years, 90 00:05:32,850 --> 00:05:37,210 S2: I would say that I've been walking through this healing journey. Um, 91 00:05:37,570 --> 00:05:42,810 S2: I came out of what, um, adoptees or, um, trauma 92 00:05:42,810 --> 00:05:46,090 S2: therapists would say come out of the adoptee fog where 93 00:05:46,089 --> 00:05:50,169 S2: those that have been adopted. Um, we'll start processing their adoption. Um, 94 00:05:50,170 --> 00:05:53,419 S2: things have just not felt right for years, and they 95 00:05:53,420 --> 00:05:55,460 S2: couldn't figure out why they were feeling the way that 96 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:58,620 S2: they were feeling. And so they start processing their adoption. 97 00:05:58,620 --> 00:06:02,779 S2: And so for me, it has been a long process 98 00:06:02,779 --> 00:06:06,540 S2: of being in therapy during different seasons of life. Um, 99 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:10,099 S2: definitely being in therapy almost every week in the last 100 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,539 S2: ten years. Um, but I just want, I just want, 101 00:06:13,580 --> 00:06:19,460 S2: I wanted readers to know that, um, healing will will 102 00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:23,620 S2: take place for life for adoptees and former foster youth. Um, 103 00:06:23,660 --> 00:06:25,900 S2: I know for me, I don't want to be healed. 104 00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:28,620 S2: I want to continue to be healing. Um, because if 105 00:06:28,620 --> 00:06:31,140 S2: I'm healed and perfect, then I'm not going to need 106 00:06:31,140 --> 00:06:34,300 S2: a savior. And for me, my relationship with the Lord 107 00:06:34,300 --> 00:06:36,060 S2: is the most important thing ever. 108 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:37,420 S3: You've just put your. 109 00:06:37,420 --> 00:06:38,580 S1: Finger on that, that. 110 00:06:38,580 --> 00:06:38,900 S3: That. 111 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:42,420 S1: Encapsulates it because I hear that, you know, I want healing, 112 00:06:42,420 --> 00:06:44,900 S1: I want, I want to be healed, I want to arrive. 113 00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:48,300 S1: In other words, and what you're saying is with everything 114 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:52,140 S1: that you went through as a child and then into 115 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:56,140 S1: your adulthood. What you want is God to walk through 116 00:06:56,140 --> 00:06:58,979 S1: the valley of the shadow with you, rather than to 117 00:06:59,020 --> 00:07:02,500 S1: get you to the place where everything is fine, right? 118 00:07:02,820 --> 00:07:06,339 S2: Absolutely. It's a journey. Um, it's not a destination. You're 119 00:07:06,339 --> 00:07:09,620 S2: going to constantly be healing for the rest of your life. 120 00:07:10,620 --> 00:07:14,820 S1: The trip that you took to Rwanda really changed your 121 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:17,860 S1: your life. It opened your eyes. Tell me about that 122 00:07:17,860 --> 00:07:19,300 S1: and how long ago it was. 123 00:07:19,820 --> 00:07:22,900 S2: Yes. So that was almost ten years ago. Um, I 124 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:26,700 S2: moved to California ten years ago to work at a church, 125 00:07:26,980 --> 00:07:29,940 S2: and I've been a full time missionary or done short 126 00:07:29,980 --> 00:07:33,180 S2: term missions for years, but I never stepped foot on 127 00:07:33,220 --> 00:07:37,460 S2: the continent of Africa. And so within my first week 128 00:07:37,460 --> 00:07:40,060 S2: of working there, they said, well, part of your job 129 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:41,900 S2: is you're going to be going to Rwanda. We have 130 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:44,900 S2: a partnership with Rwanda, and we've been doing work with 131 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:49,700 S2: Rwanda since the since the genocide. And so, um, so 132 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:53,340 S2: I went. I was there, um, um, a part of 133 00:07:53,340 --> 00:07:57,060 S2: an orphan care and um HIV team doing work, but 134 00:07:57,060 --> 00:07:59,740 S2: I was also there, um, to do research for my 135 00:07:59,740 --> 00:08:02,700 S2: dissertation that I was writing at the time. And I 136 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:07,500 S2: had the opportunity to speak in different churches, sharing my testimony, 137 00:08:07,540 --> 00:08:11,860 S2: sharing my journey. And after each time that I gave 138 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:14,540 S2: a message, there would be so many people just sitting 139 00:08:14,540 --> 00:08:17,380 S2: there crying. And for me, I'm like, okay, my story 140 00:08:17,380 --> 00:08:21,100 S2: is great. It's powerful, but not the way people should 141 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:25,340 S2: be sitting here. Um, just crying. And I asked a 142 00:08:25,340 --> 00:08:28,700 S2: friend of mine who lives there and works there, why? 143 00:08:28,900 --> 00:08:31,740 S2: Why are people crying? And he said, it's your story. 144 00:08:31,780 --> 00:08:34,059 S2: He says, you know, millions of them have the same 145 00:08:34,059 --> 00:08:38,699 S2: story because they all lost their parents during the genocide. And, um, 146 00:08:38,740 --> 00:08:40,579 S2: one person came up to me and they were asking 147 00:08:40,580 --> 00:08:42,820 S2: me a little bit more about my story. And he said, 148 00:08:42,820 --> 00:08:45,500 S2: how can you have so much joy? And for me, 149 00:08:45,540 --> 00:08:48,220 S2: my my answer was, it's my relationship with the Lord. 150 00:08:48,260 --> 00:08:51,340 S2: Like I wouldn't be where I am today without my 151 00:08:51,340 --> 00:08:55,059 S2: relationship with the Lord. But that was a huge piece 152 00:08:55,059 --> 00:08:59,420 S2: of my story. But also being in Rwanda as a 153 00:08:59,420 --> 00:09:02,340 S2: black person. And it was my first time not having 154 00:09:02,340 --> 00:09:06,060 S2: to be a minority. Mhm. That's an experience that I've 155 00:09:06,059 --> 00:09:09,780 S2: never gone through in life because I've been in predominantly 156 00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:14,820 S2: white spaces. Yes, I was adopted by a black family, 157 00:09:14,820 --> 00:09:17,060 S2: but the majority of the schools and places that I've 158 00:09:17,059 --> 00:09:20,500 S2: worked have been in predominantly white spaces. And so that 159 00:09:20,500 --> 00:09:23,780 S2: was that alone was an experience that I didn't wasn't 160 00:09:23,780 --> 00:09:26,980 S2: expected to actually go through, but was so impactful. 161 00:09:27,500 --> 00:09:29,060 S1: I want to get to that. I want to go 162 00:09:29,059 --> 00:09:32,059 S1: back to Rwanda, though, when the people said that, you know, 163 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:34,700 S1: you have this joy, you know, you've you've dealt with 164 00:09:34,700 --> 00:09:37,579 S1: all of these things so well in your life. You 165 00:09:37,580 --> 00:09:40,940 S1: also felt like, well, you saw that a lot of 166 00:09:40,980 --> 00:09:45,140 S1: that was on the surface that underneath that there was 167 00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:48,150 S1: more struggle than you wanted to admit. Is that true? 168 00:09:48,630 --> 00:09:53,390 S2: Absolutely. That's when I realized, okay, maybe I should up 169 00:09:53,390 --> 00:09:57,189 S2: my my counseling sessions weekly. Um, because there was just 170 00:09:57,190 --> 00:09:59,470 S2: a lot of things that I saw during that trip 171 00:09:59,470 --> 00:10:04,030 S2: with families that were fostering children or, um, just talking 172 00:10:04,030 --> 00:10:07,430 S2: with people that had lost their parents. I realized, okay, 173 00:10:07,470 --> 00:10:10,390 S2: I haven't really done the work that I really should 174 00:10:10,390 --> 00:10:14,430 S2: be doing. And so when I came back from that trip, um, 175 00:10:14,429 --> 00:10:18,230 S2: I literally found a new therapist and I've been in 176 00:10:18,230 --> 00:10:21,830 S2: therapy every week since that trip because there's just so 177 00:10:21,830 --> 00:10:27,510 S2: much to unpack. Not just the adoption itself, but the past. 178 00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:31,590 S2: My birth parents, my adopted family, um, that I needed 179 00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:34,270 S2: to not stuff anymore. And I needed some of this 180 00:10:34,270 --> 00:10:35,110 S2: to come out. 181 00:10:35,630 --> 00:10:38,710 S1: There is somebody listening right now. And you're saying, would 182 00:10:38,710 --> 00:10:41,230 S1: you say the title of that book again? Because this 183 00:10:41,230 --> 00:10:45,030 S1: is exactly what I'm living as a parent or foster parent. 184 00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:49,310 S1: It's exactly what I'm living in my own life. This 185 00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:54,630 S1: what doctor McMillan talks about as a fragmented identity. Who 186 00:10:54,670 --> 00:10:57,910 S1: am I with everything that has gone on in my life. 187 00:10:57,910 --> 00:11:00,790 S1: So I'll give you that information. But I want you 188 00:11:00,790 --> 00:11:02,870 S1: to do this. I want you to write down the 189 00:11:02,870 --> 00:11:05,470 S1: phone number because there's somebody who needs to call and 190 00:11:05,470 --> 00:11:08,270 S1: tell us what your story is and how you're dealing 191 00:11:08,270 --> 00:11:11,990 S1: with it, because somebody else needs to hear your question, 192 00:11:11,990 --> 00:11:24,790 S1: your story. 87754836758775483675. The title of the book is Bridging Resilience. 193 00:11:24,830 --> 00:11:29,510 S1: Remember those two words bridging resilience. You find out more 194 00:11:29,510 --> 00:11:34,270 S1: about it at the website. Chris relive.org. Chris Fabry live.org. 195 00:11:34,990 --> 00:11:37,229 S1: More straight ahead on Moody Radio. 196 00:11:46,790 --> 00:11:47,950 S4: This is Chris Fabry live. 197 00:11:47,950 --> 00:11:51,189 S1: Doctor Maryann McMillan is joining us today at the back fence. 198 00:11:51,590 --> 00:11:55,150 S1: She has written a guide to healing for adoptees and 199 00:11:55,150 --> 00:11:59,870 S1: former foster youth families and the leaders who walk with them. 200 00:11:59,870 --> 00:12:05,350 S1: It's titled Bridging Resilience Featured resource@chris.org. I have so many 201 00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:09,870 S1: questions and maybe the best first question here, Maryann, is 202 00:12:09,910 --> 00:12:12,550 S1: Tricia just said, uh, Lisa and I want to know 203 00:12:12,550 --> 00:12:16,110 S1: why that title, what is bridging resilience? So let's start there. 204 00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:17,949 S1: Why those two words together? 205 00:12:19,309 --> 00:12:23,670 S2: Um, one bridging I, I just feel like with a 206 00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:26,910 S2: part of my, my healing journey and walking through life, 207 00:12:27,190 --> 00:12:30,990 S2: there's the Lord has always placed someone in my life, um, 208 00:12:30,990 --> 00:12:33,470 S2: to really help me through that season. If it was 209 00:12:33,470 --> 00:12:37,470 S2: a teacher or a supervisor or a counselor. And so 210 00:12:37,470 --> 00:12:39,550 S2: for me, I wouldn't be where I am today without 211 00:12:39,550 --> 00:12:42,150 S2: my relationship with the Lord, but also people in my 212 00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:46,640 S2: life that have helped, um, help, um, be a guide 213 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,840 S2: for me through life and then resilience. Um, resilience is 214 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,679 S2: a word that is always used for adoptees and former 215 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,280 S2: foster youth. We are expected to be resilient. Um, we're resilient, we're, 216 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,679 S2: we're called strong. And so I wanted people to know 217 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,800 S2: that yes, we are strong, but we're not strong by ourselves. 218 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,160 S2: We have this bridge of people that have come alongside 219 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:11,520 S2: us or come alongside me, um, to really help me 220 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,760 S2: through this journey. So that's what I, that's why I 221 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:15,839 S2: decided just to put those two words together. 222 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:20,480 S1: Is it hard for adoptees and former foster youth to 223 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,240 S1: open themselves up to having those guides? Is that one 224 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,600 S1: of the struggles that you have to walk through? 225 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,080 S2: I know for me, it has been for others that 226 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,240 S2: I've spoke to, spoken with. It is hard for them 227 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,440 S2: as well, but not for all of us. Um, and 228 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,560 S2: so because there's a lot of adoptees and former foster 229 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,959 S2: youth that don't feel like they need to process their path. 230 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,440 S2: They don't feel like they are having any problems. Um, 231 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,439 S2: which is fine. There's great. They have such great parents 232 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:53,439 S2: and have, have, have a great story. But then there 233 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,800 S2: are a lot of us who just really need help, um, 234 00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:59,480 S2: but feel like we don't have the tools or resources. 235 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,280 S1: I've heard that from some before who have been adopted. 236 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,840 S1: And if you ask the question, uh, did you ever 237 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:10,960 S1: want to get you ever want to find out, you know, where? No, 238 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,840 S1: I don't because my adoptive parents are my parents. They 239 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,680 S1: aren't adoptive parents. They are, you know, and it's almost like, uh, 240 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,840 S1: don't ask me that question because you're you're casting aspersions 241 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,960 S1: on my parents who raised me. What do you say 242 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:27,520 S1: to that? 243 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,960 S2: Absolutely. And I know for me, when I started this process, 244 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,520 S2: I actually asked my mom and several family members if 245 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,360 S2: they would be okay with me writing this book. Um, 246 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,760 S2: and so I didn't need their permission. But I wanted 247 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,160 S2: to at least give them a heads up, and I 248 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:46,000 S2: wanted to hear just their thoughts and opinions on it 249 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,480 S2: because we were. I was able to talk about my 250 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,880 S2: adoption growing up with my adopted mom, but we never 251 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,920 S2: really went into the details of like how I was feeling. 252 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,560 S2: It was more of just her story of adopting us 253 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,560 S2: and a little bit about my birth family. Um, even 254 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,960 S2: though I had an open adoption, so I did know 255 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:11,120 S2: my birth family. Um, but, um, oh, I lost my 256 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,440 S2: train of thought. I'm so sorry. 257 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:14,440 S5: Okay. It's good. So what I. 258 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:15,920 S1: What I told you in the break I was going 259 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,600 S1: to have you do. Let's do that now. And that 260 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,880 S1: is just when you went to Rwanda and you told 261 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,360 S1: your story, um, how did you begin? What what did 262 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:26,840 S1: you say about your beginning and what happened to you 263 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:27,640 S1: as a baby? 264 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:33,040 S2: Yeah. So I shared that, um, at the time, I 265 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,640 S2: shared a different story than what I'm sharing now. Um, 266 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,320 S2: because Chris, as I was sharing with you before, I 267 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,400 S2: actually got my foster and adoption records about four years 268 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,640 S2: ago and the story has changed. I was always told 269 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:49,040 S2: that I, um, after I was born, um, my foster, 270 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,000 S2: my first foster family came and got me from the 271 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,440 S2: hospital and I was in several different foster homes until 272 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:59,200 S2: I was probably six years, 5 or 6 years old. Um, 273 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,040 S2: but after I got my records, I was told that 274 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,720 S2: I actually lived with my birth mom for a while 275 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,440 S2: for the first five months of my life. And then 276 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,080 S2: I was placed in foster care. And so when I 277 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,280 S2: was sharing my story in Rwanda, I always started there. Um, 278 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,360 S2: I was placed in foster care. I was adopted into 279 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:23,360 S2: a family. Um, and I really struggled throughout life, um, 280 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,160 S2: with isolation. Loneliness didn't really fit in with my family. 281 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:29,720 S2: And the only way to really get out of that 282 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,960 S2: situation was going to college. And college was another experience 283 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,600 S2: that just really changed my life because my first week 284 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:41,010 S2: in college, I was invited to the Baptist Student Union 285 00:16:41,010 --> 00:16:43,730 S2: and started growing in my faith. I became a believer. 286 00:16:43,770 --> 00:16:46,370 S2: My first semester in college, and when I look back 287 00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:48,570 S2: on my college days, I think about how much I 288 00:16:48,610 --> 00:16:51,290 S2: grew in my faith during that season. So I shared 289 00:16:51,290 --> 00:16:54,210 S2: a little bit of that when I was sharing just 290 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:58,050 S2: my story and my testimony in Rwanda. Um, and just 291 00:16:58,050 --> 00:17:00,410 S2: talk through all of the people that have come alongside 292 00:17:00,410 --> 00:17:04,250 S2: of me to help me through this journey. Um, but 293 00:17:04,250 --> 00:17:08,209 S2: I'm also, I'm, it's not a success story. I'm still healing. 294 00:17:08,210 --> 00:17:09,610 S2: I'm still processing. 295 00:17:09,890 --> 00:17:11,010 S5: Yes. Okay. 296 00:17:11,050 --> 00:17:15,169 S1: So that new information about staying the first 5 to 297 00:17:15,170 --> 00:17:20,170 S1: 6 months with your birth mother. What, what did that 298 00:17:20,170 --> 00:17:24,170 S1: reading that, you know, on the page, uh, what did 299 00:17:24,170 --> 00:17:28,530 S1: that band aid ripped off, you know, different than what 300 00:17:28,530 --> 00:17:31,609 S1: I've been told. What did that do inside of you? 301 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:35,890 S2: Yes, I for me, I realized my my birth mom 302 00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:38,969 S2: knew me. She didn't just carry me for nine months, 303 00:17:38,970 --> 00:17:43,530 S2: but I spent five months with her, living in a 304 00:17:43,530 --> 00:17:47,010 S2: home with her and my three other sisters and I. 305 00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:52,330 S2: I never had that information. And so, um, it I 306 00:17:52,770 --> 00:17:55,130 S2: not only did I get that information, but I found 307 00:17:55,130 --> 00:17:57,010 S2: out a little bit more about why I was placed 308 00:17:57,010 --> 00:18:00,169 S2: in foster care. Um, just some of her, um, my 309 00:18:00,170 --> 00:18:04,090 S2: parents substance abuse use that they have walked through in life. Um, 310 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:07,330 S2: and just the struggle of trying to live in the 311 00:18:07,330 --> 00:18:11,409 S2: environment that they were living in, getting that information kind 312 00:18:11,450 --> 00:18:13,610 S2: of allowed me to have a little bit more compassion 313 00:18:13,609 --> 00:18:18,250 S2: and empathy for my birth parents because they were struggling. 314 00:18:18,250 --> 00:18:20,090 S2: They were trying to do what they needed to do 315 00:18:20,090 --> 00:18:24,730 S2: to keep my siblings and I alive, fed and well. Um, 316 00:18:25,050 --> 00:18:30,090 S2: and the, the story changed of just hearing my birth, 317 00:18:30,130 --> 00:18:33,250 S2: my birth mom fight for me, fight to try to 318 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:35,450 S2: keep me, did not want me to be placed in 319 00:18:35,450 --> 00:18:40,130 S2: foster care. And we were taken from her. Um, and 320 00:18:40,130 --> 00:18:42,970 S2: that was hard. Um, it was really hard for her 321 00:18:42,970 --> 00:18:44,890 S2: to go out and then come back and her kids 322 00:18:44,890 --> 00:18:47,930 S2: are gone. Um, so yes. 323 00:18:48,970 --> 00:18:49,609 S5: That's one of the. 324 00:18:49,609 --> 00:18:54,330 S1: Chapters compassion, empathy and forgiveness for birth parents. And it's 325 00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:57,409 S1: one of the things that I, that I feel going 326 00:18:57,410 --> 00:19:00,930 S1: through the book is that you want to be as 327 00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:05,050 S1: kind as you possibly can to the people who gave 328 00:19:05,050 --> 00:19:08,170 S1: birth to you and, you know, and your siblings that 329 00:19:08,170 --> 00:19:11,490 S1: were there at the time and or those who were 330 00:19:11,490 --> 00:19:14,290 S1: in foster care, where you are still dealing with some 331 00:19:14,290 --> 00:19:16,129 S1: of the fallout in your life. You want to be 332 00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:18,570 S1: as kind as you can, but you have to face 333 00:19:18,570 --> 00:19:22,649 S1: the truth in order to move forward in your life. 334 00:19:22,650 --> 00:19:25,690 S1: And that's a hard line to to walk, isn't it? 335 00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:30,730 S2: It really is. Um, it really is. And I, I 336 00:19:30,770 --> 00:19:33,770 S2: haven't shared this yet, but I have five sisters and 337 00:19:33,890 --> 00:19:37,930 S2: eight brothers. Um, that's combined with both families. My birth 338 00:19:37,930 --> 00:19:41,169 S2: parents had 11 children, and I'm the youngest in that family. 339 00:19:41,170 --> 00:19:44,650 S2: And then my adopted mom has three biological children that 340 00:19:44,650 --> 00:19:48,130 S2: are 30 years older than me. Um, and then she 341 00:19:48,130 --> 00:19:51,450 S2: adopted my sister and I together. And they, we all 342 00:19:51,450 --> 00:19:56,170 S2: have different experiences from being raised by, in foster care 343 00:19:56,170 --> 00:20:00,810 S2: or being raised by birth parents or even my adopted siblings. 344 00:20:00,810 --> 00:20:02,330 S2: They have their own stories. 345 00:20:02,770 --> 00:20:04,650 S5: Yes. Okay, so. 346 00:20:04,690 --> 00:20:06,290 S1: That was one of the things I want to get 347 00:20:06,290 --> 00:20:10,650 S1: real specific here. There was something about your hair and 348 00:20:10,650 --> 00:20:12,810 S1: I made a note about this. I can't find you. 349 00:20:12,850 --> 00:20:16,930 S1: I probably, uh, you probably know exactly what I'm talking about, 350 00:20:16,930 --> 00:20:22,050 S1: but when you were a little girl, uh, growing up, 351 00:20:22,050 --> 00:20:26,210 S1: there was something about your hair that. That your mom 352 00:20:26,210 --> 00:20:28,690 S1: made you do that you didn't want to do, but 353 00:20:28,690 --> 00:20:31,170 S1: you had to. Does that ring a bell with you? 354 00:20:31,490 --> 00:20:40,500 S2: Yes, absolutely. So, um, growing up 90s, 2000. Um, can 355 00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:41,220 S2: you still hear me? 356 00:20:41,460 --> 00:20:42,220 S5: Yeah, sure. 357 00:20:42,420 --> 00:20:48,540 S2: Okay. Um, African Americans, we would have to straighten our hair. Um, 358 00:20:48,540 --> 00:20:52,619 S2: and so that was just the culture. The culture in 359 00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:57,020 S2: this country is straight hair is what's acceptable, what's what's 360 00:20:57,020 --> 00:21:01,460 S2: considered professional. And so I was never allowed to wear 361 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:05,060 S2: what we call my natural hair. So natural pattern for 362 00:21:05,060 --> 00:21:09,460 S2: my hair. It's curly, um, tight coils. And so every 363 00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:11,540 S2: 6 to 8 weeks, I would have to go to 364 00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:15,860 S2: a hairdresser and get my hair straightened. Um, and I 365 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:18,660 S2: never really understood that because I always wanted to wear 366 00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:20,980 S2: my hair natural and I didn't want to have to 367 00:21:21,020 --> 00:21:24,620 S2: go through this process of chemicals and burning my scalp 368 00:21:24,820 --> 00:21:27,500 S2: to look like the culture that I was in. I 369 00:21:27,500 --> 00:21:32,060 S2: just wanted to be myself. And I didn't start wearing 370 00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:34,820 S2: my natural hair until about ten years ago when I 371 00:21:34,820 --> 00:21:38,660 S2: moved to California and started embracing who I am as 372 00:21:38,660 --> 00:21:42,139 S2: a black woman and loving who God created me to be. 373 00:21:42,340 --> 00:21:42,820 S5: Yeah. 374 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:46,899 S1: So even there. And you were talking about, you know, 375 00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:49,500 S1: 8 or 10 years old. Is that is that when 376 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,580 S1: it when it happened? So there you see this identity 377 00:21:53,619 --> 00:21:56,740 S1: question of identity. Who am I really? And if I 378 00:21:56,740 --> 00:22:00,820 S1: have to do that to my hair, then who am I? 379 00:22:01,220 --> 00:22:04,660 S1: And how am I important to the people around me? 380 00:22:04,940 --> 00:22:08,060 S1: If I have to change from who I am, you 381 00:22:08,060 --> 00:22:10,619 S1: know what my identity is. If I have to change 382 00:22:10,619 --> 00:22:13,859 S1: in order to be accepted. What does that say about me? 383 00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:16,940 S1: And then you go back, you know, further on back 384 00:22:16,940 --> 00:22:22,020 S1: to why. Why didn't my mother raise me? And you 385 00:22:22,020 --> 00:22:25,020 S1: have the answers to those questions now. But you didn't 386 00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:26,340 S1: back then, right? 387 00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:30,580 S2: Mhm. Absolutely. Did not have those at all. And it's 388 00:22:30,580 --> 00:22:33,899 S2: interesting because people assume that because I was adopted by 389 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,900 S2: a same race family, that I wouldn't have the identity 390 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:41,700 S2: issues that normal adoption. I say normal other adoptees have 391 00:22:41,740 --> 00:22:46,020 S2: by being black or adopted by a white family. And 392 00:22:46,020 --> 00:22:49,180 S2: I have to. That's one section where I wanted people 393 00:22:49,180 --> 00:22:52,420 S2: to know. I still struggle with those identity issues with 394 00:22:52,420 --> 00:22:54,180 S2: being adopted by a black family. 395 00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:58,420 S1: If you could go back to your mom and your 396 00:22:58,420 --> 00:23:02,180 S1: dad who adopted you and sit down with her when 397 00:23:02,180 --> 00:23:05,139 S1: she was when she was taking you, and she probably 398 00:23:05,140 --> 00:23:07,220 S1: spent a lot of money on this too. You know, 399 00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:09,899 S1: it's like, and she probably felt like she was doing 400 00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:11,740 S1: a really good thing at the time. But if you 401 00:23:11,740 --> 00:23:13,980 S1: could sit down with her and say anything to her, 402 00:23:14,020 --> 00:23:15,699 S1: what would you say if you could get in the 403 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:16,659 S1: Wayback Machine? 404 00:23:18,820 --> 00:23:20,980 S2: Um, I don't think there could have been much I 405 00:23:20,980 --> 00:23:23,660 S2: could say. My mom was very strong willed and there 406 00:23:23,660 --> 00:23:26,859 S2: wasn't really much you could say, to be honest. But 407 00:23:26,859 --> 00:23:29,100 S2: if I could go back, I think I would question 408 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:30,940 S2: more of why do I have to get my hair 409 00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:34,460 S2: done a certain way? Because if it wasn't straightened, then 410 00:23:34,460 --> 00:23:37,820 S2: I had to put braids in and, um, I wish 411 00:23:37,820 --> 00:23:43,500 S2: that I would have asked her more just about black culture. Um, and, 412 00:23:43,540 --> 00:23:47,900 S2: you know, just the whole, the whole process of hair. Um, 413 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:50,460 S2: because every, every black person that is in my life 414 00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:53,300 S2: wears their hair a different way. And I didn't realize 415 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:55,500 S2: that that was just a part of the culture, not 416 00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,220 S2: necessarily us like wanting to be or look like other people, 417 00:23:59,220 --> 00:24:01,820 S2: if that makes sense. And so I think I would 418 00:24:01,820 --> 00:24:03,340 S2: just ask more questions. 419 00:24:04,220 --> 00:24:05,379 S5: That's good. 420 00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:08,580 S1: And, and, but as a child, you know, you're a 421 00:24:08,580 --> 00:24:10,820 S1: child and you don't, you just trust the people who 422 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:13,419 S1: are around you and you go forward. And then the 423 00:24:13,420 --> 00:24:16,740 S1: questions just go deeper and deeper until you deal with 424 00:24:16,740 --> 00:24:20,460 S1: them or you don't. Um, do you think that it 425 00:24:20,460 --> 00:24:23,899 S1: was part of you since you were in a predominantly 426 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:29,910 S1: white educational system that you're going through. That there that 427 00:24:29,910 --> 00:24:32,109 S1: you felt like you had to conform not just with 428 00:24:32,109 --> 00:24:36,510 S1: the hair, but with other aspects of your personality, your identity. 429 00:24:37,230 --> 00:24:42,070 S2: Absolutely. There's a section in my book where I talk 430 00:24:42,109 --> 00:24:44,590 S2: about how hard it was being in middle school and 431 00:24:44,590 --> 00:24:46,709 S2: high school in the area that I grew up in, 432 00:24:47,030 --> 00:24:51,270 S2: because there it was predominantly white school. There were several 433 00:24:51,270 --> 00:24:59,310 S2: other black families and, um, black classmates that I had, but, um, 434 00:24:59,630 --> 00:25:03,950 S2: but I never, I never fit in with the, um, 435 00:25:05,270 --> 00:25:08,390 S2: my other black classmates, uh, all of my friends were 436 00:25:08,390 --> 00:25:11,229 S2: predominantly white. Um, and there was a season where I 437 00:25:11,230 --> 00:25:13,750 S2: actually prayed for the Lord to change my race to 438 00:25:13,790 --> 00:25:17,270 S2: be in white because I wanted to fit in so bad. Um, 439 00:25:17,310 --> 00:25:21,670 S2: I dated white guys, I dated different guys. And, um, 440 00:25:21,750 --> 00:25:24,990 S2: and so I wanted so badly to, to fit in 441 00:25:24,990 --> 00:25:30,590 S2: and that never changed. I am still, I'm still black today. 442 00:25:30,790 --> 00:25:32,750 S2: But during that season, that's what made sense. 443 00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:36,149 S1: And I'm glad of it. I think you are too. Okay, 444 00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:39,270 S1: so what? You just said that people didn't see you 445 00:25:39,270 --> 00:25:41,750 S1: and you didn't fit in and you talked about the 446 00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:45,270 S1: adoptee fog. We're going to talk more with Doctor Marianne McMillan. 447 00:25:45,270 --> 00:25:48,790 S1: Bridging resilience is our featured resource. You'll find it at 448 00:25:48,790 --> 00:26:04,870 S1: the website Chris Fabry live.org. Doctor Marianne McMillan is our 449 00:26:04,869 --> 00:26:07,190 S1: guest today. She is the author of a new book. 450 00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:11,270 S1: It comes out next week, Bridging Resilience A Guide to 451 00:26:11,310 --> 00:26:15,790 S1: Healing for adoptees and former foster youth families and the 452 00:26:15,790 --> 00:26:19,189 S1: leaders who walk with them. Featured resource at the website 453 00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:23,270 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. So if that's where you are, if 454 00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:28,390 S1: you are an adoptee or former foster youth. Section one 455 00:26:28,390 --> 00:26:32,790 S1: is about 110 pages between bridges and ruins, healing for 456 00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:35,350 S1: adoptees and former foster youth. That's going to be. That's 457 00:26:35,350 --> 00:26:38,149 S1: what we talked about pretty much the first half of 458 00:26:38,150 --> 00:26:40,910 S1: the program. I want to pivot to the second section 459 00:26:41,430 --> 00:26:48,629 S1: titled Sacred Privilege for Adoptive Foster and Guardian Parents, because 460 00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:50,830 S1: this is going to open. This is going to give 461 00:26:50,830 --> 00:26:54,310 S1: so much hope to people who are right there, or 462 00:26:54,430 --> 00:26:57,550 S1: the people who love the people who are right there, 463 00:26:57,590 --> 00:27:00,750 S1: which is a really important section. And we're going to 464 00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:03,830 S1: talk about the church as well before we end here today. But, 465 00:27:03,830 --> 00:27:07,030 S1: Mary Ann, what do you say to the person who 466 00:27:07,030 --> 00:27:13,590 S1: is raising a child is struggling today? Is there a 467 00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:16,590 S1: statistic that you can give me or paint a picture 468 00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:19,630 S1: for what they're going? Many of them go through. 469 00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:25,120 S2: I don't have a statistic. Um, but I know their 470 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:30,000 S2: journey is hard. Um, and I know that there's a 471 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,960 S2: lot of people that are criticizing adopted in a foster 472 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:38,080 S2: and foster parents, um, because of how their parenting or, um, 473 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,920 S2: just some of the race things and it's hard. I 474 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,280 S2: know their journey is hard. Um, but one thing that 475 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,760 S2: I talked about a lot in that section is I 476 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,240 S2: really want them to first walk through their own struggles 477 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,200 S2: and pain that they may be going through, um, to 478 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,240 S2: go to therapy themselves, do the hard work before they 479 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,280 S2: walk into the pain of their child in their own pain. Um, 480 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,639 S2: and for them to be in community, you have to 481 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,000 S2: be in some type of community, whether it's in a 482 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,960 S2: church or a fitness group or something to have some 483 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,920 S2: type of outlet for you to really process what you're 484 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:22,760 S2: going through because it is hard parenting children from hard Backgrounds. Yeah. Um, 485 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,679 S2: so when I, when I wrote this book, I, I 486 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,000 S2: didn't want to actually write a parent section. Um, I 487 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,000 S2: really wanted to just focus this book on adoptees and 488 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,560 S2: former foster youth because there are so many parenting books 489 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,240 S2: out there. There's so many of them. Um, but as 490 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,000 S2: I submitted the first manuscript, my editor kind of shared, 491 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,360 S2: she's like, Marianne, your audience still isn't clear. Um, your, 492 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,360 S2: there's so many different people that you're addressing. Um, and 493 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,520 S2: so I wrote the second one. It was still the same. 494 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,040 S2: And going into the third manuscript, I said, okay, I'm 495 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,120 S2: going to divide this book into three sections. And so 496 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,000 S2: I said, you know, if this is my only time 497 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,280 S2: in life that I have the opportunity to write this book, 498 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,440 S2: I want to talk to all three areas. And so 499 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,360 S2: I wanted to, um, share just some of the things 500 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,719 S2: that I've gone through as an adoptee that would be 501 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,880 S2: helpful for parents, give a little bit of encouragement, but 502 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,600 S2: also let them know that this is hard and you 503 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,320 S2: have to remember your why. Your why of why you 504 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,160 S2: decided to foster and adopt. 505 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,000 S1: For many of the adoptive or foster parents, though they 506 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,960 S1: don't know the answers, they know the hard things have happened, 507 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,040 S1: but they don't know specifics. And then they see behaviors 508 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,080 S1: and and acting out and they don't know how, you know, 509 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,920 S1: where is this coming from? Is it something I have done? 510 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,600 S1: There's so many really hard questions that they're asking, right? 511 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,800 S2: Mhm. Absolutely. And I think the answer to that is 512 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,880 S2: all of the above. Um, honestly, I mean, you don't 513 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,520 S2: you don't know your child's story. Um, and you don't know, 514 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:00,680 S2: you don't know your child's story and you don't know 515 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:05,000 S2: how you're going to respond or react to your child's behavior. 516 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,400 S2: And so you have to know yourself really well in 517 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,600 S2: so many different situations. Um, and for also, you cannot 518 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,000 S2: compare that child to your biological child, Um, because of the, 519 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,600 S2: the pain and trauma that that child has gone through. 520 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,280 S2: And so I think that we have come so far 521 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,880 S2: in adopting foster care research and training, um, since the 80s, 522 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,360 S2: because when my mom went through, there was no training 523 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,720 S2: on trauma at all. And so she did not have 524 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,400 S2: those tools or resources to really help my sister and 525 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,120 S2: I with some of the things that we dealt with. 526 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,040 S2: And so there are so many resources today. And so 527 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,880 S2: if you're not reading books or in help support groups, 528 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,960 S2: then you're going to struggle. Um, and then, and even 529 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:56,560 S2: if you are. 530 00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:58,600 S1: Even if you are in a group, you're still going 531 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,000 S1: to struggle, but you're not going to do it alone. Right. 532 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,800 S2: Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and then the, I think the other 533 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,400 S2: thing is, is parents that real that I don't know 534 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,400 S2: if they're ignoring it or they just don't see that 535 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,800 S2: their child is struggling because I hear parents say a lot, 536 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,760 S2: there's nothing wrong with my child. Like they're never going to, 537 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,330 S2: they're never going to struggle. They're never going to walk through, 538 00:31:19,370 --> 00:31:20,930 S2: you know, what you have gone through or what others 539 00:31:20,930 --> 00:31:24,730 S2: have gone through. And I'm like, they are. It's not 540 00:31:24,730 --> 00:31:27,130 S2: going to look the same for all of us. But 541 00:31:27,130 --> 00:31:29,850 S2: at some point in their life, they are going to 542 00:31:30,130 --> 00:31:32,890 S2: want to process their past. And a lot of that 543 00:31:32,890 --> 00:31:35,650 S2: will come up if it's not coming out in their childhood, 544 00:31:35,650 --> 00:31:37,450 S2: it will come out later on in life when they're 545 00:31:37,450 --> 00:31:41,010 S2: dealing with medical history stuff. That is one of the 546 00:31:41,010 --> 00:31:43,850 S2: things that I've struggled with over the last few years 547 00:31:43,890 --> 00:31:46,650 S2: is some is some health concerns. And I'm always asked 548 00:31:46,650 --> 00:31:49,610 S2: the question, well, tell me about your family history. I'm like, 549 00:31:49,610 --> 00:31:54,050 S2: I don't know. I have no idea. And so I've 550 00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:56,610 S2: had to go back to some of my birth siblings 551 00:31:56,610 --> 00:31:59,050 S2: and say, hey, does this illness run in the family? 552 00:31:59,050 --> 00:32:02,090 S2: Or is has this ever shown up? And to get 553 00:32:02,090 --> 00:32:05,170 S2: that information, but I haven't I had an open adoption. 554 00:32:05,170 --> 00:32:07,850 S2: They don't a lot of these other kids don't. And 555 00:32:07,850 --> 00:32:11,890 S2: so parents aren't able to have that information. Um, so 556 00:32:11,930 --> 00:32:13,370 S2: I think it's really helpful. 557 00:32:13,570 --> 00:32:16,810 S1: There's another aspect of isolation you feel on the outside. 558 00:32:16,810 --> 00:32:19,210 S1: You got to dig. You got to do some research 559 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:22,850 S1: or detective work just to find out. Hey, did my 560 00:32:23,010 --> 00:32:28,650 S1: biological parents have problems with high blood pressure or whatever? Now, 561 00:32:28,650 --> 00:32:31,250 S1: let me let me get Tricia in here because she 562 00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:33,970 S1: has extended family members who are right in the center 563 00:32:33,970 --> 00:32:35,170 S1: of this. Tricia. Go ahead. 564 00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:38,690 S6: Hi. Thanks for letting me ask this question. So I 565 00:32:38,730 --> 00:32:42,250 S6: have several who have been several nieces and nephews who 566 00:32:42,290 --> 00:32:46,570 S6: have been adopted, some out of foster care, some otherwise. 567 00:32:46,570 --> 00:32:50,290 S6: But how can I, as an extended family member who 568 00:32:50,290 --> 00:32:55,850 S6: does not necessarily see the my nieces and nephews very frequently? 569 00:32:56,210 --> 00:32:59,290 S6: How can I help the healing that they need to 570 00:32:59,330 --> 00:33:01,850 S6: go through or will be going through as they get 571 00:33:01,850 --> 00:33:04,850 S6: older and not hinder it? Because I know some of 572 00:33:04,850 --> 00:33:09,250 S6: the details of their childhood, which I don't know, you know, like, 573 00:33:09,250 --> 00:33:12,090 S6: I don't even know if they know that we I 574 00:33:12,130 --> 00:33:15,490 S6: don't know what the assumption is that who knows what. But, um, 575 00:33:15,770 --> 00:33:17,570 S6: you know, like you just you are aware of at 576 00:33:17,610 --> 00:33:21,290 S6: least some of the trauma that they've gone through. And 577 00:33:21,290 --> 00:33:25,490 S6: how do you, how do you help that healing? Um, 578 00:33:25,490 --> 00:33:28,530 S6: when I'm with them or, you know, supporting the parents 579 00:33:28,530 --> 00:33:29,410 S6: or that kind of thing. 580 00:33:30,210 --> 00:33:32,610 S2: I think one of the ways is just being present, 581 00:33:32,730 --> 00:33:35,930 S2: showing up to games or, you know, birthday parties or 582 00:33:35,930 --> 00:33:40,490 S2: big celebrations in their lives, weddings, graduation, letting them know 583 00:33:40,490 --> 00:33:44,210 S2: that you were there. Um, one of my, um, my 584 00:33:44,210 --> 00:33:47,370 S2: aunt and my uncle, they were also my godparents. One 585 00:33:47,370 --> 00:33:50,410 S2: thing with them, they were always there for every big 586 00:33:50,410 --> 00:33:54,330 S2: thing in my life. Um, and yes, they weren't there 587 00:33:54,330 --> 00:33:56,729 S2: in the everyday weeds and whatnot, but I knew if 588 00:33:56,730 --> 00:33:59,610 S2: I needed something, I could call them and their presence 589 00:33:59,610 --> 00:34:03,730 S2: was just so helpful for me. Um, and there's not, 590 00:34:03,770 --> 00:34:06,930 S2: I mean, therapy is not a fix. All medication cannot 591 00:34:06,930 --> 00:34:12,050 S2: fix everything. And so, um, just being present and knowing 592 00:34:12,090 --> 00:34:14,609 S2: that and them knowing that you're there, it could be 593 00:34:14,610 --> 00:34:16,009 S2: so helpful for them. 594 00:34:16,130 --> 00:34:16,530 S1: Mhm. 595 00:34:16,850 --> 00:34:18,050 S2: What about a great question? 596 00:34:18,210 --> 00:34:23,930 S1: What about the church then? And, um, there's an extended family, 597 00:34:23,930 --> 00:34:27,810 S1: the extended church family. And then a child that comes 598 00:34:27,850 --> 00:34:32,689 S1: is adopted or is fostered, but doesn't have that spiritual background. 599 00:34:32,730 --> 00:34:36,009 S1: They have no idea, you know, have have your beliefs 600 00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:38,530 S1: or they haven't read the Bible or have have much 601 00:34:38,650 --> 00:34:43,410 S1: exposure to that at all. How do you sensitively, uh, 602 00:34:43,410 --> 00:34:47,770 S1: allow a child to go at their own pace spiritually? 603 00:34:49,330 --> 00:34:51,810 S2: I think the parent has to do a good job 604 00:34:51,810 --> 00:34:56,170 S2: of letting go of what they want or expect out 605 00:34:56,170 --> 00:34:59,089 S2: of this child. If they have an older child that 606 00:34:59,090 --> 00:35:03,010 S2: is not in the same faith as them. Um, one 607 00:35:03,010 --> 00:35:05,890 S2: love and embrace them. Um, figure out what they believe, 608 00:35:05,890 --> 00:35:09,009 S2: but also let them know, hey, this is a Christian home. 609 00:35:09,010 --> 00:35:12,009 S2: We go to church on Sundays. Understand this is going 610 00:35:12,010 --> 00:35:15,420 S2: to be uncomfortable for you. Um, and there are parents 611 00:35:15,420 --> 00:35:17,379 S2: that do force their kids to go to church. And 612 00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:20,180 S2: I've seen that there are parents who allow their kids 613 00:35:20,180 --> 00:35:22,739 S2: to stay home or figure out, you know, what other 614 00:35:22,860 --> 00:35:26,459 S2: faith that they would like to be in. Um, but 615 00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:30,140 S2: you can't, you can't parent all of your children the same. Um, 616 00:35:30,380 --> 00:35:33,940 S2: and so you just have to, you have to connect 617 00:35:33,940 --> 00:35:36,820 S2: with that child and figure out what would be helpful 618 00:35:36,820 --> 00:35:40,460 S2: for them. Not helpful. Not you thinking that this is 619 00:35:40,460 --> 00:35:43,580 S2: helpful for them without actually having that conversation with them, 620 00:35:43,580 --> 00:35:44,739 S2: if that makes sense. 621 00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,660 S1: It well, what you're talking about is connection. You gotta, 622 00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:48,299 S1: you gotta be. 623 00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:50,540 S2: That's a better word. Yes. Yeah. 624 00:35:51,460 --> 00:35:53,580 S1: That's that makes all the sense in the world. But 625 00:35:53,580 --> 00:35:56,660 S1: if you go into this, we're going to give this 626 00:35:56,660 --> 00:36:00,460 S1: child a chance who's had a really hard time and 627 00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:03,299 S1: they're going to meet, you know, you met Jesus, but 628 00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:05,900 S1: it wasn't until you went to college. They're going to 629 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:08,259 S1: meet Jesus. Their life is going to turn around. They're 630 00:36:08,260 --> 00:36:10,700 S1: going to do great things for God. ET cetera. ET cetera. 631 00:36:10,940 --> 00:36:13,140 S1: And they come in and they say, I don't want 632 00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:15,580 S1: to go to that church. I don't like those people. 633 00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:18,460 S1: You know, the that's going you have to deal with 634 00:36:18,460 --> 00:36:21,339 S1: that as the parent and go through a little bit 635 00:36:21,340 --> 00:36:24,860 S1: of grief as well with what your expectations were. So 636 00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:27,899 S1: all of this and more Mary Ann deals with in 637 00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:31,900 S1: her book, it's titled Bridging Resilience A Guide to Healing 638 00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:36,180 S1: for adoptees and former Foster Youth families and the leaders 639 00:36:36,180 --> 00:36:39,700 S1: Who walk with them. It is one of those heart 640 00:36:39,739 --> 00:36:42,379 S1: resources that I think is really going to help. If 641 00:36:42,380 --> 00:36:45,380 S1: this is where you are, just go to Chris Fabry 642 00:36:45,380 --> 00:36:49,259 S1: live.org and you'll see how to find the link right 643 00:36:49,260 --> 00:37:02,940 S1: there to bridging resilience more straight ahead. They're back tomorrow 644 00:37:02,940 --> 00:37:05,660 S1: on Chris Fabry Live. The two Michaels return. They put 645 00:37:05,660 --> 00:37:09,020 S1: the lamb in calamity, the Chad and eschatology. And they're 646 00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:10,980 S1: going to answer your questions about the Bible and the 647 00:37:10,980 --> 00:37:15,140 S1: Christian life right here on this very channel. And I 648 00:37:15,140 --> 00:37:18,140 S1: hope you'll join us then. Uh, go on Facebook and 649 00:37:18,140 --> 00:37:20,540 S1: ask a question of the two Michaels for tomorrow. I'll 650 00:37:20,540 --> 00:37:22,540 S1: put a link up there for you or a question 651 00:37:22,540 --> 00:37:25,940 S1: up there for you. And join us right here for 652 00:37:25,940 --> 00:37:29,739 S1: Doctor Michael Redlich. Doctor Michael Van Landingham, who are also 653 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:32,900 S1: at least Doctor Redlich is included in This is Moody 654 00:37:32,940 --> 00:37:36,340 S1: radio 100 years proclaiming the gospel. He plays a pivotal 655 00:37:36,340 --> 00:37:40,740 S1: role in the radio station. Uh, not for 100 years, 656 00:37:40,739 --> 00:37:43,259 S1: but for the last few years. And I'd love to 657 00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:45,700 S1: send that to you. We have that linked at Chris 658 00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:49,339 S1: Fabry live.org. All you got to have it. Uh, scroll down, 659 00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:51,580 S1: you'll see how you can give a gift of any size. 660 00:37:51,580 --> 00:37:55,820 S1: And we'll send you this pictorial history and all the memorabilia. 661 00:37:55,860 --> 00:38:00,379 S1: 100 years of Moody radio. Go to Chris fabry.org. I'm 662 00:38:00,380 --> 00:38:03,860 S1: so glad that Doctor Marianne McMillan has been with us today. 663 00:38:03,860 --> 00:38:08,870 S1: She's written a book titled Bridging Resilience Featured resource at 664 00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:12,069 S1: Chris Fabry live.org. And one of the things I had 665 00:38:12,070 --> 00:38:14,830 S1: to starve aside to ask you is this whole idea 666 00:38:14,830 --> 00:38:19,910 S1: of grief and gratitude, how both of those kind of 667 00:38:19,989 --> 00:38:22,310 S1: stay together, though you don't think of them at the 668 00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:24,110 S1: same time? Tell me about that. 669 00:38:25,070 --> 00:38:29,670 S2: Yes, I, I know for me and several other adoptees, 670 00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:33,590 S2: we live in this space of grief and gratitude, grieving 671 00:38:33,750 --> 00:38:37,790 S2: the losses in our lives from our birth families, our 672 00:38:37,790 --> 00:38:43,670 S2: medical histories, our culture, our race, um, the, the life grieving, 673 00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:45,790 S2: the life that we, we wish we would have had, 674 00:38:46,110 --> 00:38:49,950 S2: but also being in this space of gratitude and being 675 00:38:49,950 --> 00:38:52,710 S2: grateful for some of the things in our lives. I 676 00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:56,549 S2: know for me, I'm very grateful for my education, for 677 00:38:56,550 --> 00:38:59,469 S2: the experiences that I've had. I've done work in 30 countries. 678 00:38:59,469 --> 00:39:02,590 S2: I'm a professor. I mean, I just wrote a book. Um, 679 00:39:02,830 --> 00:39:05,509 S2: and so there are so many great things that came 680 00:39:05,550 --> 00:39:09,670 S2: out of um, me being adopted. But then I have 681 00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:13,270 S2: days where I, I feel guilty for the life that 682 00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:17,589 S2: I have. Um, and knowing that like my other siblings 683 00:39:17,590 --> 00:39:21,430 S2: weren't adopted. Um, so I'm constantly living in this, in 684 00:39:21,469 --> 00:39:24,750 S2: this space of grief and gratitude. Um, and I will 685 00:39:24,750 --> 00:39:26,790 S2: always live in both of those spaces. 686 00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:32,270 S1: And again, healing from that is not getting over it 687 00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:36,590 S1: and getting past it. It's staying in it and, and 688 00:39:36,590 --> 00:39:39,790 S1: telling yourself the truth. Both of those truths that there 689 00:39:39,790 --> 00:39:42,549 S1: is something to grieve, but there's also something to be 690 00:39:42,550 --> 00:39:43,870 S1: grateful for, right? 691 00:39:44,390 --> 00:39:46,430 S2: Absolutely, absolutely. 692 00:39:47,870 --> 00:39:52,190 S1: Um, what is the recurring struggle that you have because 693 00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:56,270 S1: you've been dealing with this for, for decades now, but 694 00:39:56,310 --> 00:39:59,510 S1: is there something that comes up in your life now 695 00:39:59,510 --> 00:40:03,189 S1: that you have to pinpoint, uh, maybe as, as part 696 00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:07,270 S1: of the trauma of, of your childhood that comes up 697 00:40:07,630 --> 00:40:10,230 S1: when you least expect it, and you still have to 698 00:40:10,230 --> 00:40:12,790 S1: deal with it. And you say to yourself, why am 699 00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:14,870 S1: I still dealing with this? I should have had this, 700 00:40:14,910 --> 00:40:16,830 S1: you know. Does anything come to mind? 701 00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:21,069 S2: Yes, there's a few things. One, I struggle with anxiety. 702 00:40:21,110 --> 00:40:23,990 S2: I talked about I talked about that in my book. Um, 703 00:40:24,270 --> 00:40:28,590 S2: just so many, so many, so much stress and, and 704 00:40:28,830 --> 00:40:32,390 S2: life circumstances that I've gone through in life. Um, I 705 00:40:32,430 --> 00:40:36,830 S2: struggle with anxiety. Um, and I am taking a medication now, um, 706 00:40:36,830 --> 00:40:39,710 S2: for my anxiety, which has been really helpful in therapy 707 00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:43,950 S2: has been really helpful for me. Um, but also one 708 00:40:43,950 --> 00:40:48,190 S2: of the big areas is being fully known. Um, I 709 00:40:48,190 --> 00:40:51,430 S2: think I'm still struggling with the piece of belonging. Like 710 00:40:51,469 --> 00:40:53,910 S2: I know who I am in Christ. I have, you know, 711 00:40:53,950 --> 00:40:57,150 S2: the community that I need, but it comes up a 712 00:40:57,150 --> 00:41:01,430 S2: lot in friendships and relationships. Um, I've had so many 713 00:41:01,430 --> 00:41:03,830 S2: people walk in and out of my life since the 714 00:41:03,830 --> 00:41:07,350 S2: day that I was born. And so, um, it's hard 715 00:41:07,350 --> 00:41:11,310 S2: for me to build relationships or stay in friendships with 716 00:41:11,310 --> 00:41:13,790 S2: people because something may happen and they leave. And so 717 00:41:13,790 --> 00:41:18,310 S2: that constant feeling of abandonment and rejection comes up a lot. 718 00:41:18,590 --> 00:41:21,509 S2: And I have such an amazing group of friends right 719 00:41:21,510 --> 00:41:24,830 S2: now who constantly remind me, hey, I'm not leaving. I'm 720 00:41:24,830 --> 00:41:28,350 S2: not going anywhere. We may have, you know, a rupture 721 00:41:28,350 --> 00:41:30,830 S2: in our relationship, but that doesn't mean that I'm going 722 00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:34,310 S2: to walk away from you. And so finding those that 723 00:41:34,310 --> 00:41:37,430 S2: great community has been hard for me. But now I 724 00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:40,990 S2: have it. And so reminding myself that not everybody's going 725 00:41:40,989 --> 00:41:41,590 S2: to leave. 726 00:41:42,550 --> 00:41:47,390 S1: So the what I hear you say is abandonment. Or 727 00:41:48,110 --> 00:41:51,630 S1: if you get to a certain level in a relationship, 728 00:41:51,670 --> 00:41:55,509 S1: a certain depth in a relationship where you start to 729 00:41:55,550 --> 00:42:00,990 S1: rely not in a, in a negative way, but where 730 00:42:00,989 --> 00:42:04,800 S1: this person is important in your life. If they go away, 731 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,440 S1: then it's kind of a double wound because you've trusted 732 00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,640 S1: them and now they're going away. So that is part 733 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,360 S1: of the trauma that you have to deal with. 734 00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:18,120 S2: Absolutely. Not just with friendships and relationships, but also supervisors. 735 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,799 S2: I've had several supervisors in life who they don't want 736 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,040 S2: to connect with their employees. They don't want to get 737 00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,320 S2: a chance to know them. We'll hear all about their lives, 738 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,880 S2: but they won't connect with us. And that is really 739 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,600 S2: hard for me as an adoptee because it's still a 740 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,960 S2: form of rejection for me. And so I am a 741 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,520 S2: huge advocate of making sure everybody in my life is 742 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,960 S2: seen and heard, and I just want others to do 743 00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,799 S2: that for me as well. And it doesn't always happen. 744 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,680 S1: We've touched on this. What can the church do better 745 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,160 S1: with this group of big group of people in our society? 746 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:59,200 S2: Have space for them. I think that the church shows 747 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,120 S2: up for adoption day or leading up to adoption. Um, 748 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:09,000 S2: but then they're gone and so have long term trainings, um, 749 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:13,359 S2: or ministries for foster and adoptive families. And I know 750 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,000 S2: some churches do, but they mainly focus on the adoption 751 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:22,680 S2: process or training. They don't, they're still not there afterwards. Um, 752 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:24,600 S2: and that's one thing that I hear from parents all 753 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,280 S2: the time is, yes, my church has this ministry, but 754 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:29,839 S2: there's not much that they can do for us or 755 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,000 S2: they're not doing much for us. Um, I know a 756 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,040 S2: lot of churches have special needs ministries or special needs, um, 757 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:41,719 S2: groups for children. Um, but it's mainly focusing on kind 758 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,880 S2: of physical needs. Um, and these special needs groups aren't 759 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,680 S2: focusing on the trauma. And so if you have a 760 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,040 S2: child that has been in foster care or adopted, and 761 00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,520 S2: they're sitting in these Bible studies, um, or youth groups 762 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,120 S2: and they're having behavior problems, they just kind of take 763 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,359 S2: them out, put them into a different room and they're 764 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,520 S2: not able to address those issues. And so I think 765 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,600 S2: the church can do a better job in that area. Um, 766 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:11,360 S2: the other area is not putting adopted and foster families 767 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:16,279 S2: on a pedestal. Um, and so there's, I love, I 768 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,680 S2: love adoption day, adoption month. Um, but there's a lot 769 00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,040 S2: of times where they focus on families and they put 770 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,919 S2: them up on these pedestals and the focus is more 771 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,839 S2: on the parents and not actually the child. And that's 772 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,040 S2: where that saviorism stuff comes out. Um, with what with 773 00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:35,680 S2: what a lot of adoptees actually hate and they complain about. 774 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,759 S2: So that's another area that the church can do a 775 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:38,720 S2: better job with. 776 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,480 S1: Okay. Lightning round. What is one question you wish people 777 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,960 S1: would ask adoptees more often? 778 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:51,040 S2: Ooh. Ask me about how I'm doing today. Don't focus 779 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:56,160 S2: on my past. Like, let me share about my successes 780 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,480 S2: or the places that I'm wanting to go or things 781 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,480 S2: that I'm wanting to achieve. Don't hear that I'm adopted 782 00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,279 S2: and then want to ask all of these questions about 783 00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:06,080 S2: my past or my birth family. That's one thing. 784 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,000 S1: I like that, and that's you notice that that's the 785 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:12,080 S1: first thing I asked you was, how you doing? But 786 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,040 S1: you know, I don't that was kind of how we 787 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,080 S1: began the program. 788 00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:16,880 S2: Yes. 789 00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,200 S1: Marianne, you're just this breath of fresh air. And I 790 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,239 S1: just I'm so grateful that you have taken, you know, 791 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:28,399 S1: the hard stuff, the wound that you've run toward it 792 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,080 S1: rather than away from it and you've dealt with it. 793 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:34,279 S1: And now that place of, of healing in your own 794 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,880 S1: heart as you continue to walk toward healing, uh, that 795 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:40,560 S1: place of healing is going to spill out to other people. 796 00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,719 S1: And it's happened here today. And so thank you for 797 00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:47,640 S1: being faithful with the pain and the struggle and, uh, 798 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:49,480 S1: keep doing what you're doing, friend. Okay. 799 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,760 S2: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. 800 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,410 S1: Doctor. Marianne McMillan again, former foster youth and adoptee. her 801 00:45:57,410 --> 00:46:00,009 S1: life has been shaped by the realities that we've been 802 00:46:00,010 --> 00:46:03,049 S1: talking about here today. And she's written this guide to 803 00:46:03,090 --> 00:46:07,850 S1: healing for adoptees and former foster youth, for families and 804 00:46:07,850 --> 00:46:12,850 S1: the leaders who walk with them. It's titled Bridging Resilience, 805 00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:16,770 S1: two words Bridging Resilience. You can find it at our website, 806 00:46:16,770 --> 00:46:21,009 S1: Chris fabry.org. Scroll down, you'll see, or you can go 807 00:46:21,010 --> 00:46:24,090 S1: to the program page and listen to the program again. 808 00:46:24,130 --> 00:46:26,650 S1: Maybe suggest it to somebody else that you know who's 809 00:46:26,650 --> 00:46:31,009 S1: walking this trail. Let's go to Chris fabry.org. Again, the 810 00:46:31,010 --> 00:46:34,129 S1: title is Bridging Resilience. And don't you dare miss the 811 00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:36,969 S1: two Michaels. They are coming back tomorrow right here on 812 00:46:36,969 --> 00:46:39,450 S1: Chris Fabry Live to answer your questions about the Bible. 813 00:46:39,450 --> 00:46:44,650 S1: From Genesis to Revelation, everything in between and even more so. 814 00:46:44,690 --> 00:46:48,090 S1: Listen right here. Chris Fabry live production of Moody Radio, 815 00:46:48,130 --> 00:46:50,529 S1: a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute.